Orc muscle mommies with rock-hard abs and sidecuts are now canon, good job fellow green fever coomers.
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 Ape Out Shirt $21.68 |
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This is the illustration for the Orc species page in the new PHB.
Orc muscle mommies with rock-hard abs and sidecuts are now canon, good job fellow green fever coomers.
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Ape Out Shirt $21.68 |
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>orc
Where? All I see is neanderthal-pug hybrids scattered around the Lion King background. Not a single greenskin to be found.
this is just what sun-tanned greenskin looks like
DnD orcs were never green, tourist.
>Oceania had always been at war with Eastasia.
Find me one depiction of a green orc. I'll wait.
Third edition bestiary.
NTA, but here
Why is a tourist calling a chad a tourist?
Boy oh boy, these posts didn't age well. Anon here got blown the FRICK out.
>defends lame and gay retcons made for a modern audience
>calls other people tourists
The hubris of projecting so obviously like this
What is with the half-finished speedpaint look they've been going for? It's like they took the rough draft and instead of providing feedback put it in the book.
I know this one because I was in the industry.
See, these big companies don't have art staff anymore. They have to do everything they can to show more profit than last quarter or the firms that own their stock can literally have them arrested as financial criminals. When you can't squeeze blood from the stone of your customers anymore, you have to start cooking the books. How do you do that quickly? You fire as many of your workers as you can get away with, refill any necessary positions with lower-waged employees, and stop up the rest of the gaps with temporary contracts. As in, freelancers.
Almost all commercial fantasy art is done by the lowest bidder that can still trick Johnny Gamer into buying a book. So the incentive for the company is to get the art for as cheap as possible and the quality only has a low threshold to beat. The incentive for the freelancer is totally opposed to that. They need to make as much money as they can as fast as they can before their joints give out or they become homeless. So they take the highest commission they can get (and because they're a solo operation with no negotiation or representation team let alone any kind of individual power to stop the company from going to a different interchangeable guy on ArtStation or Twitter) and complete it as fast as possible to the bare minimum to fulfill the contract and move on to the next commission with the least gap between one job and another. You can see how this is a race to the bottom. It looks like a half-finished speedpaint because it literally is a half-finished speedpaint. That's all it needs to be for the rube at the company who doesn't know shitfrick about aesthetics to rubber stamp the payment, so it's all the freelancer can afford to give.
When you build a reputation in the industry now it's not about quality. They don't want original ideas or a unique stylization or much of anything except what legal will approve and marketing is outlining. They want it fast.
>economically illiterate artist
Many such cases.
You don't have a fiduciary duty to torch the place. Fiduciary duty is a very old concept, older than DnD and all these other franchises being turned to shit.
Any fricking moron can tell that the market likes good art. If there's really a bunch of mouthbreathers in suits going
>let's piss off the market because it's a little cheaper
then they're the ones not doing their fiduciary duty.
These places are infested with cronyism, and when a real bean counter gets in charge, heads roll.
Adding to this that one of the most common pressures for a company to increase product quality is competition. DnD is sorely lacking a serious competitor, but they are also at their weakest in a long time. I am really surprised the whole OGL debacle and Pathfinder exodus didn't put the fear of God in them.
NTA but the consumer base they have cultivate are shiteaters who are fine with this type of art. They may not like it but they are fine with it, and that enough for the bottom line.
Look at MTG where the majority of newly released cards and the same generic Artstation Slop with multiple cases of art theft. Its like that because Wizards only pays like 250$ per piece of art (350$ for secret lair artworks) with hyper specific deadlines. And yet consumers will buy a box with a 100 small rectangles of cardboard with aforementioned pictures inked on them, made for less than a dollar, for 180$.
MTG can be held up by whales. What does a D&D whale even look like? They buy a ton of minis? There's no gambling or need to get a competitive edge.
In 3.5 they were skinny metalheads that bought dozens of $35 fluff books about dragons. In 5e they are fat women and incels buying $90 amethyst dice and Critical Role(tm) dice trays
My guess would be the evangelists who help it maintain market share. All of the people who say "need a new hobby? Have you tried D&D?" and who constantly tweet about podcasts.
WotC can show stats about how many of those people they get compared to other table top games to Hasbro and thus convince them that market share is growing.
not really. People complained about 5es art but tolerated it...
This shit is just turning the west coast homosexualry to 11.
Lmao, do they really pay that little for art? A furry would charge more for a gay porn commission.
>let's piss off the market because it's a little cheaper
have you been living under a rock for 40 years?
That is so exceedingly lame. This is why in my games, we spare orcs at approximately the same rate the heroes do in LOTR
Okay but where are the skulls
And the wooden stakes? Can’t forget the wooden stakes
They look like an elder scroll elven race. Like a cross of orsimer and dunmer, to be precise.
They look weirdly modern. I don’t mind this kind of orc, but this modern look has to go.
Again this one is not bad, but they vaguely look like they’re in a sci-fi spaceship mess hall instead of a dwarf hall. If anything the woman with armor looks out of place here.
>Chieftain Ghazkul argues it's not the Kingdom of Many Arrows' responsibility to keep the orc caravans away from Luruar borders
>In response, Alustriel Silverhand calls for a great wall to be built by the land's greatest magicians
Can you prove this?
https://x.com/WingBuffet/status/1803483137101668770
Yes.
>the overwhelming majority of the replies like it
Yeah, D&D is functionally dead as a fantasy genre. It's just a comfy slice of life simulator for these people.
Replies are restricted because types like this don't can't handle any criticism whatsoever.
The sad part is that /tg/ is rapidly going in the same direction. This thread actually has almost 600 posts or something.
But wait, there's more.
My issuie with this, isn't the stupid race or sex shit
But the fact of like, why the frick would you eat food, 5 feet away from both a really hot forge and 2 people working away on an anvil.
I know that wotc artists are moronic, but surely they know that a big fire is hot
but dwarf like forge, anon
>But the fact of like, why the frick would you eat food, 5 feet away from both a really hot forge and 2 people working away on an anvil.
They're deranged Dwarf Fortress dwarves
I think it's stupid for a race to consist of numerous distinct sub-races that map to wildly different parts of the real world, which implies that dwarves existed all over the world undergoing major phenotype changes over the course of thousands of years, and then came back together in a racially homogenous stone soup of impossibly different ethnicities living and working together relatively recently...
But also, yes, it would have taken them very little time to research what an actual forging and iron-working setup would look like and how exceedingly fricking moronic it would be to have that many people working different jobs in extremely close proximity with no real sense for workflow or handling of materials.
Also this is saccharine, gay, twee bullshit that does not evoke adventure and whimsy. It evokes homosexualy coffeeshop vibes.
That's exactly what weirds me out about contemporary fantasy racial diversity.
Somehow, dwarves evolved to be european, african and asian, just like humans, halflings, elves did. But not Orcs.
You'd be shocked if you saw the places the Chinese or Indians will take their lunch breaks
smithies were centers of gossip and conversation for men in the past. for dwarves, who like forges and hammering shit even more than humans, i would be amazed if they didn’t mix those with food and drink
>smithies were centers of gossip and conversation for men in the past.
lmao, no. no they weren't.
or, since you're going to be an idiot about it: it's more accurate to say that they were in the same kind of way that there were women warriors in history.
Oh so you mean not just objectively true but also relatively common. Gotcha.
The best part about this for me is that it's clearly drawn by someone who has never done any kind of real work and who has no idea what a fricking job site would look like.
>muh fantasy
Sure, I'm not asking for full blown Jap autism where you recreate all the trappings of corpo life, ala OSHA and shit. But still, nofrickingbody would set up a smithy or trades-based worksite like that. It's so fricking moronic it hurts to look at.
You aren't wrong in what you're saying but I do think you're wrong in the pretense you're putting up. Fantasy art isn't usually super literal like you're implying. Look at any typical tavern scene in most books. The squished in scene and weird fish-eye effect is meant to show that there's a lot going on in dwarf holds. It's representative of a much bigger idea and not a literal room.
I work in construction, and our jobsites look exactly like this. The guy with the food is the foreman. He's probably thrown his back out and doesn't want his crew to give him shit all day about being a piece of shit and not hammering with everyone else.
There's nothing weird about this. These are minor phenotype differences objectively speaking. You give them undue weight because of your own personal issues.
they are exact real world phenotypes
I'm fine with, actively happy about, variety in fantasy races
what's moronic is that they keep getting made 1:1 copies of real world phenotypes, complete with the cultural trappings of dress, hairstyle, etc.
Because the fricktards making this seem to think that they need to represent eveyone in every race, and that people are too stupid to undertand nuance, so it's straight up 1:1 mappings of real world ethnicities but with elf ears or dwarf beards or whatever.
this is moronic, but also the people who think the response to this is to start yelling about blood and soil and calling for genocide are more moronic.
why is there no sane fricking middle ground.
It especially bothers me with Forgotten Realms.
>Elves come in various shades of gold from one subrace, various shades of silver/white from another, various shades of brown from a third, and pitch black from the 4th, not counting the subraces no one gives a toss about
>Dwarves come in various earthtone colors, some like orange or yellow like mesas, some like limestone
And so on.
Yet they can't do anything that isn't just standard bullshit.
Why the frick is that dwarf heating the head of a finished hammer?
Dwarven fire enchantment.
It's pretty common when forging to weld a steel bar to a piece of stock that is being worked so that you don't have to be fricking around with tongs until you start on the detail work. I totally hate the art, but that part does make sense.
Heat treatment
>women without beards
Fricking disgusting
>The cookie-baking dwarf and the one holding the tongues got tattoos of each others beards
>They put the bookkeeping right next to the furnace
>Distracting people who are working with heavy tools and highly energetic materials with your stupid drop scones you fricking homosexual
>The hand on that dwarf in the back standing at the window
>All the dwarves are some identifiable human racial caricature while the orcs are not
loathe to defend this corpo pandering trash, but I believe what you mistake for "bookkeeping" is ingots and rods of metal material
>bookkeeping
Those are ingots
Say what you want about the art style, skin colors, whatever. My big question is, why aren't these motherfrickers adventuring? Why aren't they raiding dungeons and getting loot? What the frick do these dollhouse homemaking scenes have to do with D&D?
to inspire you when building your character and giving them a background
adventurers aren't created ex nihilo at the entrance to a dungeon
Frick that noise. I'm not going to spend the game sitting in a dwarven coffee shop, I will be delving into dungeons to kill monsters. If they want to give character inspiration, show adventures for each race.
>section of the book about character creation and backstory
>"why is this not about that other part of the book"
do you WANT to be enraged for no reason or are you just moronic?
I can promise you my character's backstory would not involve brokeback mountain orcs or gay dwarf cookies.
okay cool
you understand that adding art to the pages of a book does not mean they want everyone to make their character in that likeness, right anon?
Not defending this art AT ALL, but this is very obviously the art for the racial summary page, so they're seemingly trying to capture what each race's society might look like...and failing miserably. Every race is just "humans, but..."
This is fiiine, you guys are trying way too hard with this one.
kys cultist
This is the worst one. The orcs looks fine besides the weird cowboy choice and elves were always homosexuals anyway. But the focus on the same sex couple, that little thing that is probably a child but looks like another small race and those by the window who look like regular humans are ruining it. I do like the female ones working there and that homie with the eyepatch though.
The baking dwarf pisses me off the most, not because of the bread, but because he just looks too much like a real guy. There's no fantasy here, you trip over guys that look pretty much exactly like that on any college campus.
>those guys with tattoos of each other’s beards
CUTE!
I really, really hope that that's a midget dwarf and not some other race.
I can see this becoming a memeface.
I want every artist at wotc to get fly shit in every bite of food they take for the rest of their lives.
There's nothing wrong with this outside of the bland realism style and being kind of boring.
The Orcs losing their Orc-ish traits and looking more like body-builders or people with construction worker builds, only keeping the tusks, is bad. This is tame by comparison
>The two Dwarf homosexuals have each others' beards tattooed on their arms
Okay that's actually really funny, that makes me slightly less mad.
I have noticed that the dwarven gay couple has also a kitten, confirming gayness
Something is unclear to me - are these very cosmopolitan cities of a given race (Dwarves or Elves)?
Because how do you explain how different people look from each other?
In my setting, I had elves (say) looking very diverse, from looking like the ones in WHFB to black or south asian features in base of the forest of origin and the real-life inspiration of that specific part of the setting.
But each community MOSTLY looks like one or another type, barring occasional outsiders. Because if this wasn't the case, in a few generation people would look all mixed up.
What is going on here? Everyone is separated in each dwarven city, asian dwarves only marry asian dwarves, scottish dwarves with scottish etc? If so, where is each one from?
>What is going on here? Everyone is separated in each dwarven city, asian dwarves only marry asian dwarves, scottish dwarves with scottish etc? If so, where is each one from?
Don't think too hard about it.
These people are melting pot shills. They likely don't even know why races exist in the first place.
everyone is randomly assigned a race at birth
it doesn't need to be related to their parents
It depend on how long those cosmopolitan cities exist and how long those different (sub)races live among each other coupled with the rate of intermarriage between groups and rate of reproduction
For an irl exemple you still can find a bunch of practically pure japs, italians and germans in Brazil(big cities included, not only the countryside), even with those group immigrating there almost century years ago
But I agree that in cosmopolitan regions that were cosmopolitan for a long-ish time mixed (sub)races should be either be majority or a sizable chunk of the population
I guess they're just supposed to display a varied bunch of different members of the species to inspire the player with the opportunities
if you opened the book to the "elf" chapter and saw picrel, you'd probably be led to believe that all elves in this universe are this exact shade of purple, with purple or bluish-green hair, blue eyes, and some sort of face marking extending down from their eyes. It doesn't really show the possibilites or variety of the species.
Seems like the way to avoid that would be to just illustrate a different elf adventurer of each subrace. Or, if all of the elves need to be in one scene, use that scene to help characterize what each subrace is about beyond skin color. Like have some wood elves and high elves teaming up to fight some drow. Or maybe depict them at some sort of tense diplomatic negotiation if it needs to be something more peaceful.
Showing them all sitting around some random patio just indicates that elves come in basically any color, but are all functionally interchangeable.
To use your pic as an example, it'd be like tossing in some random Blood Elves into the ranks. Sure, that shows that there are non-purple elves in WoW, but does it give you an accurate impression of what Night Elves and Blood Elves think of eachother if they're hanging out shoulder to shoulder?
This is a good point and completely ruined rings of power, but I think the simple explanation is that this image is not supposed to capture what a "real" Dwarven society looks like, it's just an indication of the various types of dwarves you can find in the entire world. It's still gay and looks like shit, but that's how I would defend it.
That's not even the most confusing part.
>there are Asian elves, Asian humans, Asian dwarves, Asian orcs, etc.
>there are also black elves/humans/dwarves/orcs/etc., Hispanic elves/humans/dwarves/orcs/etc., and so on for every real-world ethnicity that matters
Why do these phenotypes occur so consistently across multiple races that have no genetic relation to each other? Does environmental adaptation exist in this world in a way that exclusively gives people similar cosmetic facial features and hairstyles but somehow doesn't affect body type at all?
Well you see, when an orc and an asian elf love each other very much
>muh genetic
doesn't matter in a fantasy world where gods and magic are constantly meddling with things and those races can easily interbreed and many are canonically not the product of evolution or any other natural process
Right, it's pure coincidence the only dark brown elf in the artwork also has fat lips and dreadlocks.
No one said is just coincidence, only that 'muh genetics' is a moronic argument
I have serious non-troll question. The people who this stuff is aimed at, what are their games about? seriously, if I'm to believe there is no cosmic good vs evil; then what are their games even about? !modernPolitics with a fantasy coat of paint? punching "nazis"? killing Drownald Trog?
A lot of the time it's literally awkward erp of various explicitness.
>Do you pull out of the succubus? No? Okay I am going to need you to make a constitution save.
>!modernPolitics with a fantasy coat of paint? punching "nazis"? killing Drownald Trog?
Pretty much.
Watch Critical Role if you can stand it and you'll see.
>Watch Critical Role if you can stand it and you'll see.
what happens
Eh, I haven't used orcs for years, they don't have enough of an archetypal fantasy role to bother keeping around once you stop running kitchen sinks. These do look moronic though, and more like half-orcs than orcs.
>seriously, if I'm to believe there is no cosmic good vs evil; then what are their games even about?
The cold horror of an uncaring and alien cosmos.
>seriously, if I'm to believe there is no cosmic good vs evil; then what are their games even about?
is that the only kind of narrative you've ever heard about?
Read another book, sheesh
>black and asian dwarfs
>why is a child bookeeping? or dear god is that dwarf midget?
>why are female dwarfs doing hard labour?
>not ever gay dwaves would tattoo another dwarf beard on themselves
>clear a.i art hand in the window
I don't think that's an AI hand.
I'm an artlet, I cannot draw, but that's two hands. Pink is his right hand, red is his left. He's holding the mug in one hand, and gesturing with the other.
I've numbered the fingers, T is the thumb.
also I assume the kid is doing homework in the family business. I've seen that happen a fair amount in local chinese restaurants where you have "tiger parents" who make the kid study constantly. "Mum has to run the takeaway counter, you bring your maths homework and sit behind the counter with me, yeah?"
>I still think it is 100% moronic to give fantasy races the same fricking ethnicities as real world humans, I hate it and I already noped out of D&D and MtG in part because they have this bizarre obsession with African-American Elves. Don't get me wrong I hate it, but I'm explaining why you're seeing this, given that they're basing their fantasy races on real world human ethnicities now. I want it to stop.
I still think it's done with AI and then painted over or something. Only an AI would be moronic enough to stick three dwarven fingers into the ear of a cup and make a ring-finger thinner than a moderator's pencildick.
This is so exhausting. I can only assume that the only types that are pleased by this are ideologically aligned with far-left progressive politics.
>you can have your orc PC be whatever you want, it doesnt have to be a Lotr/ Warhammer ripoff or be limited to barbarians. How about mexican inspired orcs? Play who and whatever you want. Be creative. The choice is yours
Why should it NOT be a bunch of mexicans? As far as i am aware, those are the first mexican inspired orcs i´ve seen
Back in the 80s, Mystara's subsetting of the Hollow World had the Krugel Orcs, which were dinosaur-riding Mexican Bandito-flavored orcs.
orc banditos riding The Beast of Hollow Mountain is awesome though
the crap in OP is not made to be awesome
…since when are elves literally green?
They depict various elven subraces and types here. The green one is probably one of the Eldarin from the Feywild.
Spring court fey.
the green skin and red hair makes me think it's some fey or dryad equivalent, eladrin are basically the neanderthal equivalent of elves as their fey ancestors
>drowBlack folk just chilling in rivendell
Oh god I hate this so much
>all those elves ignoring the drow spies
this is going to turn into a bloodbath, run you fools you're surounded
>Letting the fricking Drow into your society
>This is what they think is a good idea
I mean, since 3.x Drow in practically every setting are just purple skinned elves.
That's what they want you to think.
Until they take you to their underground spider queen dungeons and whip you for their entertainment.
You know what, given Elven cross world Planar/Jamming culture I find this okay.
thats a fricked up arm
also here's another one, the hex codes for the skin is CED5CA
Encycolorpedia calls
>The hexadecimal color code #ced5ca is a light shade of green
There's also
>The hexadecimal color code #797a75 is a shade of yellow-green
the shadow colors travel through the grey-greens into the grey-yellows depending on where you click, too
>it's gotten so bad people miss 4e
I saw a 13th age thread the other day, it was pretty nice.
3trad here.
Both 3e and 4e share
1) The assumption that players are not moronic and can handle simple sums and subtractions
2) The assumption that players are not moronic and can handle buff and status conditions while looking at a map
3) The assumption that players are not moronic and can handle feats as non-optional rule
4) The assumption that an high level character or monsters should not necessarily be bothered by a low-level threat
5) The assumption that fantasy tropes are there even if exceptions do exist e.g. evil orc
i do like those undead
Those are wight supremacists.
Where's the gay couple?
you get that elsewhere at least
Yeah at least the whole book isn't coffeeshop AU fanfiction. Your pic and
are solid. I don't even care if your overriding goal is to put a black and asian dwarf or both lesbian and gay elves in a scene, at least make the whole thing an interesting fantasy scene.
this is very cool. Giant Illithid statue. Some sort of Illithid city?
zero detail slop. bring back traditional artists for the love of god.
this just makes me laugh, it's like sculpting the Colossus of Rhodes but he's holding a box of poptarts
This is gonna make almost everyone angry, lol. Doesn't help that the art also sucks.
reject modernity, return to tradition
Silly dragon, trees are for birds.
Not Elmore's best but whatever happened to mountains and woods in fantasy art?
>whatever happened to mountains and woods in fantasy art?
In the old days Gygax unironically would say shit like
>Want to do a boat based river adventure? First go rent a boat and ride it down a river and get a feel for the real version so you can make a fantastical version.
Someone like Greenwood would say
>Go and read at least three different books from different writers about riding boats down a river to get a feel for how to present it and what to consider in the magical version
Meanwhile in modern day it's
>There are no rivers to ride down in coastal inner cities so therefore rivers are just shitty taxis.
Apply this same logic to basically any natural terrain that isn't heavily featured in a recent film.
homie what the actual frick are you yapping about?
The death of natural environments stemming from no one camping or even reading about camping anymore because everything needs to cater to coastal clowns.
I think there's a few overlapping factors
>fantasy is now mainstream
>fantasy TTRPGs are heavily influenced by the glut of popular fantasy media like GoT, LotR, Harry Potter
>demographics have shifted so majorities in developed countries tend to live in cities, making urban areas just more natural for them to imagine in fantasies
>modern mainstream fantasy players want more social and political gameplay vs adventuring - most modern TTRPG parties just straight up skip travel and survival elements
>most modern TTRPG parties just straight up skip travel and survival elements
This shit annoys me
When wilderness travel is reduced to just "roll survival and maybe roll navigation, you're at your destination"
I get the days of old school encounter tables where after a while you were hoping for a small mammal encounter so you could get some fresh meat are over, but Jesus fricking Christ is it lame now.
mainstream fantasy players want more social and political gameplay vs adventuring - most modern TTRPG parties just straight up skip travel and survival elements
Can confirm. Got invited to play a campaign and there's precious little combat or adventuring. A good 80% is Game of Thrones-lite dialogue between our PCs and the GM's NPCs.
Nothing enrages me more than skipping travel/survival/exploration. Thats my favorite part. Urbanoids just dont get it.
the people who make the art now has nevener been in a forest or on a mountain
depressed artists living in the deepest of 1mio+ cities using computers to draw a distorted idea of what's outside their grey life
>depressed artists living on minimal wage
Fixed.
You can find even in "mainstream" rpg forums people maintaining that exploration, overland travel etc is boring, a waste of time etc.
No love for adverse weather, improvising under duress, resources management, survival, wonder of the unknown and of the Wild.
It's funny because I observed a similar phenomenon in mmorpgs, but I digress.
>we will never get inspiring art in a D&D book ever again
>Gray Orcs
>Wearing khakis and hoodies and chaps
>In the American southwest
Zero for three, bud. Want another pass at it?
The orcs are very clearly grey and the one on horseback is definitely wearing chaps.
DUDE! DUUUDE!!!
look at the art
THEY LITERALLY CAN'T INTO SCALE!!!!
the one guy is tiny, not a child, and is runnign out from underneath the rock outcropping.
either that fat b***h is 20 feet tall or that kid has odd proportions and is tiny, with a tiny bird!
It's a collage. The parts were made separately and then stitched together.
soul
It has a softcore porn feel to it which I find tiresome.
It's a comparably shitty collage.
A pity we can't go back in time and kill the developers before they made that game for all the harm it did to RPGs.
Care to elaborate
But that's not world of warcraft anon...
Everquest was a well designed attempt to bring singleplayer cRPGs into a technically feasible multiplayer environment, with players strongly depending on each other. A notion that has been hollowed out severely by World of Warcraft and its continuous simplifications in favor of quality-of-life features.
EQ fricked them up first.
RPGs
Fighter - DPS
Cleric - some DPS/Heals/Buffs
Mage - some DPS/Utility
Thief - some DPS/Utility
Players position themselves to protect their more vulnerable party members.
EQ
Fighter - Taunt just taunt
Cleric - Heals/some Buffs
Mage - DPS
Thief - DPS
EQ sucked the fricking soul out of RPGs and took a shit in the empty space that remained. Every time you see some tarded taunt ability on a fighter, thank EQ. Every time you hear some thief talk b***h about their deeps, thank EQ.
Most of that was already the case in Wizardry though
Utility spells are extremely rare in video games.
There's Ultima Underworld and everything adjacent to it (Arx Fatalis and to a lesser extent TES), and then there are a couple of DnD games with stuff like Contact Spirits and Talk to Animals, but those are mostly just gimmicks.
And that's pretty much it.
No it wasn't, what the frick? Did you ever actually play Wizardry games? All the classes in it clearly fit the mold the anon you're responding to shows, there was no such thing as "tanking" before EQ invented the idea. A Fighter in Wizardry just killed shit, there was no such thing as an "aggro table" back then.
The term tanking was inspired by this cartoon illustration in the original Wizardry manual explaining the importance of AC. Fighters, Lords (Paladins) and Samurai were always the tanks due to having the hp and AC needed to survive on the frontline. EQ just added taunts to tank classes tool kits as well as reducing their damage output.
The tusks remind me of those bulky glow-in-the-dark vampire teeth.
Great looking Medieval Fantasy here.
Okay but I would do unspeakable things to the slim orc/elf/thing.
is this a Hedon fan comic?
Given how ambiguous he makes the existence of a dick, seems so.
For my own sake, I choose to believe that post is a troll of some sort.
that's fair
>muh noble savagaes
Making them vaguely ethnic analogs is actually worse than just having them as big green monsters. Frick off WotC.
I dont think I understand the point of making them people.
If you want what appears to me some sort of Mexican culture why not just have that? I guess I don't get making a different species a stand in for a specific real culture.
Imagine looking at this moronic crap and thinking "wow badass"
slop. Looks like utter slop.
They're actually making dnd6e?
I don't care about them making non-evil orcs but I draw the line at making them mexicans.
What the frick is this wild west bullshit.
One of Jeremy Crawford's main objectives in his stewardship of D&D is to warp the games outward stylistic trappings into a toybox system devoid context beyond the DM's prerogative but still giving them a bunch of shiny D&D TM iconic creatures and villains to ogle over.
The worst part is that 5e is awful for the sort of generic fantasy they're trying to push. The game wants to be a combat-focused dungeon crawl, so the sort of people who might actually enjoy a game about elves socializing at a party, dwarves working a forge, or orcs exploring the wilderness are going to be disappointed.
The systems in place suck, a chunk of the classes in the game can't even participate properly in non-combat situations, and if the party only gets into one fight per day then spellcasters just dominate.
Like at this point it just feels like false advertising. The only silver lining is that the sort of gays who would fall for this and buy a $50 rulebook that doesn't help them have a fantasy tea-party are the sort of people who deserve to get scammed.
This has baffled me for the longest time, like why is the absolute gamiest RPG the one they're trying to push onto normalgays
D&D is far from the most gamey RPG out there, and to a certain extent the fact that it has a bunch of rules isn't the problem.
To me, it's the fact that 5e (and 5.5 since it's barely changed) is built around 6-8 fights per day. That works fine for dungeon crawls, but is really shit for overland travel, wilderness encounters, city campagins, etc. And it's especially shitty for any groups who don't enjoy 5e combat that much, or otherwise only want to include combat in their campaign when it's actually important.
Plenty of tables out there want to just face off against the evil baron and his bodyguards without needing to wade through 5 rooms of guards first, but without having those five rooms of guards the baron just gets unceremoniously blasted by a volley of fireballs. Which is probably hilarious the first time, but is also probably not what any of these storygays hoping for a more 'cinematic' game actually want.
Again, the issue is that WotC pretends D&D is generic fantasy, when it's really quite specialized as a high-fantasy hack & slash with some dungeon crawling elements. I suppose if they were honest about what their game was though, then they wouldn't be able to trick as many people into buying books.
>D&D is far from the most gamey RPG out there, and to a certain extent the fact that it has a bunch of rules isn't the problem.
I'm not some sort of PbtA autist by any means, I think that system is far more gamey. But 5e still works on D&D logic which isn't very noob friendly and never was (wasn't too bad when you still catered to a majority autist audience)
>the fact that 5e is built around 6-8 fights per day
is in fact not a fact. 6-8 is a soft upper limit.
>For each character in the party, use the Adventuring Day XP table to estimate how much XP that character is expected to earn in a day
>In general, over the course of a full adventuring day, the party will likely need to take two short rests
I don't understand why people feel the need to lie about this. The DMG makes it blatantly obvious that 6-8 combat encounters is what they expect the party to fight.
Otherwise, the XP characters were expected to earn would be less than the XP values of that many encounters A CR 1 encounter is a Medium encounter for a level 1 party of 4. Six of those is 1200 xp total, divided by four players is 300 each. Likewise, it wouldn't state that the party would -need- to take two shorts rests if there's an expectation that the party might have only 1-2 combat encounters.
The fact that the DM can go against these assumptions does not change that 5e was built around these assumptions.
>posts the whole section
>still didn't fully read and understand it
The magic words here are "can handle". The section does not tell you that after three days of adventuring, your group should have gone from level 1 to almost level 4 or git gud if they haven't.
You're not very clever.
Okay.
>I posted the whole section. Why did you quit reading at the very first sentence?
The word sequence repeats two more times throughout the section, including the last sentence.
>a DM can cuck their players and keep them at level 1 for longer
Stop inserting your fetishes into the game.
>that's not what 5e was built for.
Which is why the DMG includes progression options that completely divorce levels from encounter budgets.
>Which is why the DMG includes progression options that completely divorce levels from encounter budgets.
Which is why I already mentioned milestones. I'm glad you agree that levels can be independent of encounter budgets though, because that simply means your earlier point here
was meaningless, and we are left in agreement that the game's expectations of XP per adventuring day are clear, and that those expectations firmly related to encounter design rather than levels.
You have perfectly demonstrated my point for me, thanks.
>let's defend the changes by making fans of it look like insufferable morons
Do you really expect this to help you?
>The magic words here are "can handle".
I posted the whole section. Why did you quit reading at the very first sentence?
>The section does not tell you that after three days of adventuring, your group should have gone from level 1 to almost level 4
According to basic mathematics, it does. It tells you how much XP the characters are expected to earn during an adventuring day. The game does not expect that you'll be spending an extended period at early levels if you're using XP rather than milestones. The numbers are staring you directly in the face that the designers said to give the level 1 characters 300 XP in one day.
Again, a DM can cuck their players and keep them at level 1 for longer by having them fight a single kobold per day, but that's not what 5e was built for.
>The fact that the DM can go against these assumptions does not change that 5e was built around these assumptions.
You've designed a shit game with
>6-8 combat encounters is what they expect the party to fight
>oh but we also made it super easy to rest after every fight with laughably abusable slop like "Leomund's Tiny Fricking Hut" or whatever
>oh and we also made it even easier by repeating endlessly to never ever say no to the poor widdle pwayers, so when they say they rest in every second dungeon room, they have plenty of ammo to call you abusive if you try to deny them
>so the sort of people who might actually enjoy a game about elves socializing at a party, dwarves working a forge, or orcs exploring the wilderness are going to be disappointed
Why? IT seems like the perfect system for this kind of "players". They meet around a table, chat a while, then they go "I want to do X", "ok, roll for it...you succeed/eh, you succeed BUT...". Do you expect that the average joes they want to pull in, if wanting to play a gay dwarf in a forge, would expect or demand detailed metallurgy rules?
>Do you expect that the average joes they want to pull in, if wanting to play a gay dwarf in a forge, would expect or demand detailed metallurgy rules?
Not at all, and that's also not the sort of thing I'm talking about. Though what they certainly won't want is to spend $50 on 300 pages of rules mostly focused on combat that they aren't going to read or use.
Most of the differences between 5e and 5.5e are pretty combat centric with things like extra feats or martial maneuvers or other subclass tweaks, so it's not like they get anything for upgrading.
The perfect system for these 'players' is something basic one-page RPG like pic related where it literally is just 'roll to do X'. Or more likely, something like FATE if they wanted to be able to add some personality to their character.
Too much text.
They want a system that someone with at least 50,000 other viewers will tell stories about on <social media of choice>.
>Too much text.
Exactly my point. Which is why I said that the people who would buy it purely because it has gay dwarves deserve to be scammed into buying a book they will never read.
>Yeah, but they wouldn't be "playing D&D" then
Obviously, because WotC is relying on brand recognition in order to keep them from realizing that D&D isn't actually a generic fantasy system. That's why I said it comes across as false advertising.
We agree on everything but the last bit. Yes, they aim for gullible idiots that deserve to be scammed because they flock to the nerdy mainstream thing due to brand recognition. While they do deserve it it's still scummy to market that way, but that's another issue. The thing is TO THEM it's not false advertising. They want D&D, they get D&D. They want to skim over the book, look at the art, see representation and gay couples, nod to themselves in approval and put the book on the shelf to never use it. If they play, the GM will handle the rest. And if they want to bake cookies for their gay boyfriend, they will be able to, one way or the other, most probably with a quick roll to show that they indeed are "playing".
Yeah, but they wouldn't be "playing D&D" then. That's not the type of customer the marketing and art direction look to be aiming for.
It's an exotic location, anon, aren't you excited? Who needs majestic pines and misty valleys when you can have sand and sunburn?
A desert can be majestic, just not in the hands of these people.
Hey, deserts are cool. You just need to put hot brown ninja women in it.
Failing that, I’ll accept a desert sausage party so long as most of them have excellent mustaches and curved swords. I have to see at least one guy sitting on a giant cushion somewhere, too.
Only the sidecut ruins it. Though I wonder why they choose an old west depiction.
Because the DMG is entirely about Greyhawk now.
Everyone knows Greyhawk as the wacky setting with the cowboy god.
>orcs riding horses instead of wargs
lame
>pale Mexicans with tusks
massive flanderization
>We're not racist!
>Our orcs aren't barbarians raiding people
>They're civilized frontier explorers
They will trade lead for land with the savage merigan elves.
How lame. And to think the main way in which half orcs used to be was through rape, because orcs used to be monstrous villainous creatures.
Now they are just another human with weird bits race.
good grief this shit is so lame that it's completely turned me off of even giving this version of d&d a chance
>see sidecut
>immediately feel tired
I wish any of these artists would do some research on clothing older than the 1900s
Black elves are high elves, Asian dwarves are mountain dwarves for all we knkw
Gotta be honest, making Fantasy !Africa to justify a skin tone is something a middle schooler would do.
>do some research
The artists who do research are the ones who have stable jobs with companies who have rejected the CEO centric changes in business over the last 6 decades.
Larian, as much as I don't like their games, were right when talking about how disgusted they are with wotc doing the (common) practice of treating creatives as interchangeable members of the company.
This was also why it was memed about when western devs complained that it's unfair to compare them to eastern devs because in Japan people get hired and trained over years and then keep their job for many years to come.
WotC and most western companies just don't want to pay for quality so the artists who do quality are wasting their time and losing money to the shit artists.
seems natural for worlds to have poles and tropics and therefore different phenotypes
I just wish people would put in the effort to make fictional geographies that make sense on their own terms and not just lazily c/p real world stuff
Cynically I would say they’re just building in a future brouhaha so they can use it for attention in the future.
How do they look like Mexicans?
How is 5e the gamiest RPG?
What planet do you fricks come from?
the kid's in a poncho dude. The whole picture has an old west mestizo aesthetic to it
Not just Mexican per se but very Gaucho/Old West South America, look at the poncho, look at the hats, the half chaps, the leg coverings
Orcs look pretty American
Stop being racist they look nothing like Mexicans, they look like your average Eurasian steppe riders
Not with the ponchos and shit.
I have this feeling you guys got wooshed by that other guy's irony.
>ponchos
>Cowboy boots
>fringe pants
>wide-brimmed hats
They're extremely old west coded, are you blind? Can you point at a single detail that makes you think of eurasian steppe people?
>so which look should we give to our group of savage, brutish murderers and looters the orcs?
I don't think they thought this through
>to our group of savage, brutish murderers and looters
Sounds about right, they gave them a settler aesthetic this time though rather than colonized. Pretty funny
They don't have breasplates and morrion, those clearly aren't the settlers
if we killed all the mommygays the internet would be 100% better.
Are the dungeon procedures from the original 5E playtest actually making it into this one or?
Hahahahaha
You for got 6), the assumption that players are autistic
Nah man he’s a moron but you’re just as a big a one.
Dead silence
I’ve always wanted to ask, does it taste of blood?
>You for got 6), the assumption that players are autistic
t. a moron that finds 3e and 4e too difficult
Well, you won anon. The world is yours. Enjoy the pics ITT.
Not difficult, but unenjoyable unless you can also get off on train model statistics.
Don’t get me wrong, this new shit is bland as frick, but don’t pretend that shit like trap options and page-long grapple rules are good design.
Yeah it’s quite obvious with stuff like >93125459 getting rekt that janny desperately wants to be janine
Holy shit. That is so bad.
I'm just not gonna play it.
I'M SORRY. Not really.
But I'm.... Just not gonna play it.
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Naaaaaaa
Star Trek was limited by having to use humans in bodypaint for their non-human species.
What's WotC's excuse?
I like other races being Humanoids.
Humanoid form is peak function for a civilized being.
I don't buy into the Neil Degrasse Tyson or Bill Nye Space universe.
They're doing the Pathfinder 2e thing of your background gives you ability points to spend.
so like 5e? a language, 1 skill from a couple of options and a skill tool? that's ok. But from the ads "backgrounds will be more important than ever" they clearly want to do way more
A bit more.
They give you less points during point buy but if you have a soldier background you get +1 str and con and then +1 Dex or Int or shit like that.
And yeah the fluff piece says they're doing things they've never done before like giving orcs and dwarves darkvision! Or making it so races have different racial abilities!
In other words it's just advertising slop put over nothing.
>And yeah the fluff piece says they're doing things they've never done before like giving orcs and dwarves darkvision
Maybe they mean superior darkvision. I have no idea why orcs would have this, it makes sense for drow and deep gnomes.
orcs had darkvision and sunlight sensitivity in older editions because they were mostly cave dwelling creatures who went outside to raid
rememer the old lore, their god threw a bunch of arrows/spears to the plane and said all those holes were orc territory when the gods were choosing which race will live where
Yet the orcs depicted, and orcs for the last few editions have been plains nomads. I'd take the darkvision away at this point, too many races have it.
Orcs have gone from weaker than humans and living in caves to stronger than humans and living in caves to tougher than humans and living in caves to apparently just being gray humans who see in the dark.
But for the majority of their existence in D&D they've been cave dwelling night raiders.
The orc riding a horse looks like he has a sweet blonde girl hugging him.
pretty sure that's a kid
Well, it's just getting a little more progressive than usual...
WotC, at least the D&D side, is mostly marketing people at this point.
5e launched with like 4 contractors and 5 employees.
They made a big deal when they got their 6th, then Hasbro hired on a frick ton of people.
Then as this shit always does, they discovered that marketing people claim their advertising on a forum sold 20 more copies, while rules guy has no metric for what his rules sold.
So the D&D team got gutted again, but marketing people stayed on.
>What if orcs were just humans with tusks?!
Unspiring garbage. These barely even pass for half-orcs.
They're octogorcs, clearly.
We're literally never getting art this soulful again.
worse than the 5e halfling
What the hell? I thought the setting was Greyhawk? What is this pozzed nonsense
>3.x is infamously where they rewrote Drow of the Underdark to be about how drow are so backstabby that a maid will risk murdering her mistress because the potential of getting hired into a better position in another house is there.
If you think that is an example of them becoming more "backstabby" than they were before, you have literally no clue what the Drow were prior. Hell, that is bog standard behavior in the first Drizzt books, which incidentally, is the popularization of "I'm the ONE X version of this [anything but X]" mentality that suffused 3.x and after, but that's a slightly different discussion.
In the Drizzt books it was a part of Menzo, which according to the original DotU as well as the Drizzt Gude to the Underdark, was an extremist city that stuck out for its extremism.
That's also where we get shit like armor that is chained to slaves so the slaves take damage for you despite it limiting your movement.
Menzo was meant to be edgy. 3e Drow spread Menzo edgy to be ALL drow.
>cites hickman revisions to gygax creation
In Vault of the Drow most drow are neutral and only the ones at the top are evil demon worshipers.
>Vault of the Drow
From the Intoduction:
>. It is now evident
that the Dark Elves pass freely throughout this underworld, but
it is just as evident that these evil elves are hated and feared
by the other intelligent races inhabiting the subterranean
lands. This does not give cause to hope that your party will receive any substantial aid, for most of the creatures dwelling in
the sunless places beneath the earth are as evil as the Drow
that don't change that all the statsblocks and NPCs agree with
>that don't change that all the statsblocks
This is a flat out lie, and a bit weird because I clearly have the pdf right here. Out of the 14 instances of the word "neutral" in the the full text, there is exactly one reference to a drow being neutral on page 21.
Oh and before one of you people who have clearly never read any of the gygax era supplements go "but they used 'n' in statblocks" and futher embarrass yourselves over being painfully wrong, the highlighted bits in the attached screenshot *are* the statblocks.
yeah the top elite were evil, that was never contested, but the bulk of the drow population was described as neutral regardless
You realize that betraying the frick out of someone for an advantage is a neutral behavior, right? It's not evil. Evil is betrayal for betrayal's sake.
betrayal for betrayal's sake is Stupid Evil.
Betrayal was always considered one of the worst thing to do. See where Dante put the traitors in the Commedia. The deepest part of Hell.
It's literally the worst thing you could do.
>betrayal for betrayal's sake is Stupid Evil.
And? Gygaxian villains were uniformly Saturday Morning Cartoon Villains.
>Betrayal was always considered one of the worst thing to do.
This is a position on morality.
>See where Dante put the traitors in the Commedia. The deepest part of Hell.
>It's literally the worst thing you could do.
Giving a shit about if what you're doing is good or evil is explicitly not neutrality. It's being good or evil. Not caring about if your act is considered good or evil but the utility of it is explicitly neutrality. In this case, it's just taking advantage of an opportunity to better your position. The question isn't whether it's right or wrong, but will the consequences be better for you or worse.
hahahaha
what
>I've never learned what alignment actually represents nor have I ever actually used it (correctly) so I just repeat stupidity I've seen on teegee.
Anon you have no understanding of morality.
We laugh at you because your rant betrays your psychopathy but we are at a safe distance.
Holy shit.
Mine is far better than yours both in general and in specific with reference to the DnD alignment system.
Look, it's as much about intent as it is action. With respect to neutrality, there's broadly two approaches that are a thing:
>attempting to balance good and evil in the world
The scale of what you're looking at is a personal choice. Like if you're in a good community of an evil empire, it's just as arguable to do good things or bad things as a counterbalance to either the community or the empire. It's the fact you're trying to act in such a way that balances the other out in some way.
>ignore or reject the concept of good and evil
This is just pure utilitarianism. What is going to lead to an outcome that better aligns with your goals? Sacrificing a baby may ensure that the harvest gods make sure that your community has bountiful harvests for the next decade, so since a goal of yours is the growth of your community and the parents of the baby can't really do anything to you, you have no problem with pulling the knife across its neck and sleeping well. You don't get any pleasure out of it. It's not some longstanding dream of yours to kill babies, but it's something that gets you closer to your goals.
In the case of betrayal that's more a matter for the lawful/chaotic side of the alignment matrix. A chaotic good character will happily betray the hell out of some evil dude while a lawful evil one will be loath to break his word to his nemesis.
I swear, 99.9999999% of the hate of alignment is people just not even kind of understanding it.
>I swear, 99.9999999% of the hate of alignment is people just not even kind of understanding it.
I don't hate alignment. At all. I in fact hate the modern term that pushes for its removal.
But you have to understand that
BETRAYAL BAD
Betrayal is a inherently evil action, no one will ever trust a betrayer because if you can betray once you can betray twice, no one will ever feel safe around you if they know you betrayed someone before, the fact that you don't get that means you're at the very least autistic.
being obsessed with it makes you the autistic one
Being good isn't a matter of being liked or trusted. It's strange that you all question my understanding of morality and then say things like "protecting your reputation is more important than ending a possibly world ending threat because the only way you can do it isn't a way people like".
A good character can be perfectly fine with accepting the consequences of infamy and massive mistrust for a greater good. Hell, there's even a decent number of examples of this in literature.
>"protecting your reputation is more important than ending a possibly world ending threat because the only way you can do it isn't a way people like".
welcome to shame based culture, where face and reputation are everything
this picture is fake as frick
germany and ireland would be yard yellow, so would korea, and subsaharan africa would be all red
>germany
only if youre a turk.
Ahh, there it is. The worst take I'm going to read all day. Thank you.
this anon should not be allowed to roam around unsupervised
this post was typed by the most midwitted of midwits.
Midwit prime.
Betrayal is evil in its purist form moron. That's why the lowest circle in hell is reserved for betrayers
Sure thing buddy.
Why are they Mexicans?
I can tell you this, I was willing to give the book a chance until this. I'm not playing D&Dogshit for a very long time it seems.
>guys we are LEGALLY required to maximize profit for shareholders!
>*does illegal things to make more profit*
I know. but its so exhausting to see it happen at every turn. star wars, D&D, movies. thank god video games are finally starting to get good again or I'd become a hermit...
I do not understand this Jeremy Griggs-esque obsession within engaging in things you do not like and don't care about just to be part of the conversation. You don't play Dungeons & Dragons. You don't like Dungeons & Dragons. You know what? I don't like Dungeons & Dragons either. I don't like 5E and I saw the writing on the wall about that as early as the playtests. I don't think I'm going to line D&D One either. You know what I do about that? I don't fricking play it, and I don't spew shit all over the internet like a fricking moron about it, either.
You don't fricking care about tabletop games or anything else. You hate yourself and everything else, and you want everyone to be as pointlessly angry about it as you are so you can feel less like a freak for wanting to have a nice day.
Well, both dwarfs tatooed their significant other's beard. They're not having gay sex.
>tatooed their significant other's beard
That's just such a dumb detail. I really, really hate the person that thought it up and thought it was neat/clever/whatever.
It's clever. The bar is very, very, low.
But who would be moronic enough to get a tattoo of their partner's hairstyle instead of their face or name? "oh yeah it's the image of my 3rd long-term frickbuddie's beard style when he was 36, then he changed it"
>dwarf changing his beard style
this has been debunked
It is trivial. It's just a hobby, it's a manufactured and fleeting identity that can change with a whim and holds no permanence. It doesn't mean it's not important to you but in the grand scheme of your life it isn't important.
Small doesn't mean trivial. Also yeah, hobbies aren't life and death, but they're a facet of culture, one which many people here are deeply immersed in.
>just don't care about things bro
I fricking hate you and people like you
If nothing matters then why don't you just fricking have a nice day? Your life doesn't matter so why live it?
>you shouldn't invest your identity in the products you buy
>SO NOTHING MATTERS HUH? I SHOULD JUST KILL MYSELF THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? I DON'T MATTER AND NEVER HAVE? THE UNIVERSE DOESN'T CARE, RIGHT? I SHOULD DIE? YOU SHOULD DIE FOR SAYING I SHOULD DIE! FRICK YOU!
Yeah man you're definitely the sane one.
You sure don't look sane to me, bruh.
>the hobbies you engage in are just inherently valueless products that are entirely arbitrary and interchangeable
You literally have no soul lmao
>It is trivial
It was important enough for WotC to commission art and for you to make a post downplaying it.
>D&D isn't just a product, it's a hobby
aka shit dnd players say
everyone else engages in the hobby of "ttrpgs" or "pen-and-paper roleplaying", only dnd gays call the entire hobby "D&D"
>inventing semantical distinctions to be mad about
People who hate 40k don't have this autism. What is wrong with you?
Not my orcs. But I'll just use the system and draw/imagine my own artstyle anyway.
>orcish falconers
Now people are going to think I ripped that off
TTRPGs are a hobby.
Dungeons and Dragons is a literal, copyrighted product with a corporate owner.
Dungeons and Dragons is an specific game, and when people say it's a hobby they are saying that playing D&D is their hobby, not TTRPGs in generals
>they are saying that playing D&D is their hobby
those people have made their bed and are now mad they have to sleep in it
>do you have any hobbies?
>Oh I'm pretty into Magic the Gathering
>UHM AKTCHUALLY YOURE INTO TCGS MTG ISNT A HOBBY KYS
You people are literally morons holy frick
>I hate Magic the Gathering
>I hate the gameplay
>I hate the rules
>I hate the players
>I hate the developers
>I hate the card art
>I hate the fluff text
>I will still build my identity around being a "Magic the Gathering player"
>I will never ever try out another game
>I will keep shitting up /tg/ every time the game that I hate makes a change that I hate
>I am sane btw and you are a subversive leftist
>inventing things to be mad about again
>do you have any hobbies?
>Oh I'm pretty into Magic the Gathering
Playing? Collecting? The art? Just deckbuilding? Tournaments? Leagues? One or multiple formats? Cosplay?
The hobby isn't the product, it's what you do with that or other products. I don't know a single person into MtG who does all of the things you can do with MtG, and I don't know a single person into MtG (or DnD) who is obliged to immediately engage with every aspect of the product as it's produced.
Because again, DnD and MtG aren't the hobby- they're product lines owned by Hasbro.
Those are all just facets of the hobby at large
There's a few lifestyle brands out there that invest a lot of advertising and effort to convince people that a product is a hobby in itself. A useful exercise is to ask the same question about brands that don't advertise to you as effectively.
I paint pictures sometimes. I use watercolour paints, and all I buy or own is Windosr and Newton paints: they're the best balance of price, convenience and effectiveness for me. Tell me this; am I a watercolour painter or a Windsor and Newtoner?
My grandmother sews, and her sewing machine's a Singer. Is her hobby sewing or is it Singering?
When I ask my mate about his hobby, why do you think he talks about playing guitar rather than being a Fenderer?
Some people realise that the hobby is what you do, not what product you do it with. Others fall for it so completely that they not only treat the product as a hobby but as an identity. The hobby is the verb, and the product is the material you use.
That argument doesn't translate at all to a hobby that is a literal game. Is a basketball player a basketball player or a sporter?
Basketball player, not a "[specific basketball league] player"
especially when that league is one who does things you disapprove of.
True, but remember:
is claiming that playing, collecting etc are all "aspects of the hobby at large" and my initial issue was
saying that DnD isn't a product, it's a hobby.
So back to your basketball player whose hobby is playing basketball. Does the basketball player necessarily collect basketball trading cards? Memorabilia? Or is that a different hobby? How about watching basketball; is that the same hobby as playing basketball? What leagues or matches do they watch or not watch? Why do they do some of the things and not others?
Even then, "basketball" isn't a brand like "Dungeons and Dragons" is. If your basketball player played in a particular amateur league with its own particular rules and restrictions, their hobby wouldn't be "X Leaguing": it would be playing basketball.
I'm off to bed now, but here's the thesis again; the hobby's the activity you do, not the brand you do it in. Regarding OP's post? I'm a guy who GMs the game Dungeons and Dragons, not a "Dungeons and Dragoner", and it's nice to not have an existential crisis when Hasbro squeezes out yet another turd for the trough.
Just speculation, but there's probably some idiot in middle management screaming about "getting numbers up" regardless of longterm brand damage.
That and people cannot fathom how suits and corporations operate on their very own true-isms.
I actually know a dude who worked as a Data Analyst for a big PR company. The shit hes been telling me sounds like something straight from a sketch comedy with how he has to explain the data to people who make 7 figures a year and they will twist themselves into pretzels to misconstrue the data before their very eyes.
The jannies have done quite a bit of pruning of notably poor quality posts while keeping the core conversation intact. They've done the same work in the beastfolk thread at
.
>The jannies have done quite a bit of pruning of notably poor quality posts while keeping the core conversation intact.
Why do you fricking lie? You can literally read the entire thread on 4plebs, you bootlicking little wienersucker.
why are they pale? Wouldn't they have a darker skin tone because of the climate? Like if these were orcs that lived in the frigid north, I would understand why they are pale. But here it makes them seem out of place, like they just recently moved to the desert.
>they made orcs bisexual mexicans
Now if only they'd follow the logic of that back to Cartel Rapists, we could actually get some decent orc content again.
Nothing stops them from being both. They could be mexican cartel, yet their day job, their front, is they look like ranchers. Put on a wholesome looking appearence for the law enforcement folks.
why the frick are they trying to make orcs "peaceful" and humanlike now?
Because everyone is exactly the same, just in a different shape.
thats fricking boring
Because they think orcs are a code for black people/minorities and because they completely ignore examples of more civilized or 'evil monster' orcs from previous edition like the Kingdom of Many Arrows in FR or the Druidic focused orcs of Eberon
The problem with that "civilized orcs" thing is that Obould was simply *smarter* than the average orc and so was much better at coming up with long-term plans. But he was still thoroughly evil. If the typical orc is supposed to be a stereotypical violent black guy than Obould was basically Idi Amin or François Duvalier - not exactly a counterpoint to the stereotype so much as just taking it in a different direction.
Case and point: I don't think there's a single named Good-aligned orc in all of Forgotten Realms' publication history. Given the sheer number of adventures and novels written in the setting, and given that the setting has always been explicit that orcs *can* be good, that's kind of incredible.
jessy wtf are you talking about?
That whole video was painful to watch, it was like watching someone dig a hole under themselves.
has any single video done more damage to the hobby?
>5.5e is already on a collision course and WotC is in panic mode
Oh, cool, it's doing fine then. I've grown to realize that whenever someone from /tg/ makes a declaration like this, the opposite is almost always true.
There's still cosmic evil. No one is removing fiends from the setting.
Also, even without cosmic evil, there can still be individual evil. When I ran my own homebrew campaign I didn't really touch on "cosmic" evil, but I still had the Efreeti Grand Sultanate and the Dao Grand Khanate and all the evil of those cultures (first thing I told my players about the latter is "the main thing dao slaves bring out of the mines is opals; a close second is the worked-to-death bodies of other slaves"), and my main villain was a thoroughly evil wizard trying to collapse the Elemental Planes together into a single pure element.
It really is only a matter of time before the IP is dead. MtG really is the only thing keeping WotC and Hasbro at large afloat. You do know they're not giving you a pay raise, right?
That's one of the first things that came to mind when I saw the OP picture. It's the same thing, but with Mexicans.
Pretty much.
I mean frick, they claim Tolkien is an evil racist for saying the orcs were Mongols.
But he never said that. Because Tolkeins orcs were from fricking Birmingham, being good working class lads who were corrupted by the horrors of what they'd seen, done and endured.
But no, let's not go too deep and explore the idea or orcs as victims who inflict their trauma on others, or do something cool like a setting where orcs are a corrupted sub-species of mankind created by some great war who have to reintegrate/find their place in society.
That'd be far too interesting, nah let's make it all about the Bliggities (again) because Californian morality is flat as a farted F note and has all the depth of your average Californian woman.
Frick it, know what'd be a cool original setting?
A high fantasy setting where orcs are the result of corruption/a war and the war is over, leaving only the damage behind, they're not welcome in polite society so they tend to become adventurers/roving tribes who go around fixing problems.
Imagine how cool it could be, orcish mercenaries trying to overcome their trauma through daring heroics while still being painfully aware they can never return to what they were before the War touched them.
>But he never said that
He didn't claim they were literally stand-ins for Mongolians, no, but he did say that orcs were:
>“squat, broad, flat-nosed, sallow-skinned, with wide mouths and slant eyes: in fact degraded and repulsive versions of the (to Europeans) least lovely Mongol-types.”
So he said they *look* like Mongolians, but who did he say they act like?
Because when you read the Two Towers and Return of the King, they speak like the worst of uniformed soldiers from a modern society. The worst of British soldiers, even. They're the most modern of all his characters in their speech pattern, they're constantly worried about pressure from their bosses and higher-ups, they're constantly fighting over status and who wienered things up this time, and given the chance they'd absolutely leg it to the countryside with a couple of good lads and give it a go as independents away from all this Sauron nonsense. It's even more explicit in The Hobbit, where he makes it clear that orcs invented much of humanity's current technology (including the machine gun) and that you'll find their descendents in our society today.
>orcs were from fricking Birmingham, being good working class lads
40k brainrot
I can overlook all of the problems with the art if they didnt make every single character look like an urbanite Portland hipster from exactly 2016-2022. This is releasing with an already outdated look. The audience will be gaslit into buying all new books in a few more years because this look will soon be a relic of “last decade”. It is the equivalent of putting shutter shades and livestrong bracelets in the art of 4th edition.
I've always favored pig-headed orcs over these generic humanoids/big goblins. The ideal orc would be those green pig guys who guard Jabba the Hut's palace, or Maleficent's goons.
I personally like the Disney's Gummi Bears ones.
Brilliant, no one will ever think orcs are black now if we make them all mexicans.
Racism has been solved! This shit is so mind-blowingly stupid, Anon. I can't believe it. I can't believe this works on consumers.
So I'm a full-time illustrator for games & RPGs, and I have a lot of friends who are also industry artists. I'm not here to say "lol i could do better lol', because that's subjective.
But I have been looking at this new D&D art and I can't help but think it all fricking sucks. Like, just from an artistic perspective, the...perspective, on this piece is all kinds of fricked up, a lot of the details make little or no sense, some of the anatomy is fricked, etc. It's just not very good, and whoever art directed this for Wizards did a horrible job both on this piece and all of the other ones.
But more than that, more than the technical issues; Am I the only one who feels like this art just is not remotely 'D&D'? Like, who is this FOR? Who is this supposed to appeal to? If I want to be sold on playing an Orc, I want to see Orcs doing stuff they DO in D&D, like fricking fricking monsters. I don't want to see a picture of a slice-of-life of an Orc family having a picnic. How is this supposed to sell me on the game? What does this have to do with adventuring and combat and being a hero?
Why is all this D&D art so fricking SOFT?
I like your takes. What do you consider proper "D&D" art in comparison?
I'm a big Wayne Reynolds fan, I know some people have gripes but I've always loved his work for a lot of reasons. But I dunno, I think MCDM has been getting some really quality work for their books, and a lot of the Kobold Press Tales of Valiant stuff is pretty good. Paizo has some stinkers but by and large most of their covers and splash pages are just really traditional scenes of combat or campaign moments, which is kind of the point.
Essentially, I just want my TTRPG books to show me what kind of awesome things my characters could be doing, or what kinds of scenes I could be creating as a DM. And at no point in any campaign am I going to be describing a fricking Orc family picnic.
Agreed.
I saw the artist who made this mention on twitter how painfully difficult the deadline was for this piece. Explains why it looks so mediocre. These deadlines seem systemic.
I knew that those deadlines had to be brutal. All of the art for 5.5e that I’ve seen so far looks unfinished.
Apparently talking about D&D isn’t actually related to traditional games, in case any of you were curious.
way to misinterpret a post.
Hes agreeing with you.
pretty much.
They want to take everything from you, because they hate you.
Beeing left alone was never an option, they want to control you and that means they need to control and own everything you enjoy.
That butch orc character design is just awful.
Reminder that unless you're seeing this through an archive site, you're seeing a fraction of all posts, because discussion was sabotaged.
They only deleted 207 posts.
Not that I know of. Maybe the spods over at Ganker can cook something up
Why would you ever think the wienersuckers that removed unique poster count would do anything about this rampant bullshittery?
Let nishimoot know that one of the jannies has gone rogue and started deleting on-topic replies.
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