this is the only souls game i've ever played. how does it stack up in terms of difficulty to the other ones?
this is the only souls game i've ever played. how does it stack up in terms of difficulty to the other ones?
this is the only souls game i've ever played. how does it stack up in terms of difficulty to the other ones?
it's the hardest souls game. harder than Elden Ring because it has actually levels that you can't as easily just run through enemies. Also has a bucket load of bullshit traps, actual light platforming, fall damage actually matters, most aggressive enemies the series has ever seen that can aggro you from miles away. DS2 character is also the "weakest" character. Objectively longest estus recovery. Stamina actually matters so you can't mindlessly spam rolls. I distinctly remember a lot of "hazards" like poison and fire and stuff. That shit is downplayed a lot in DS3 and Elden Ring despite the poison swamp meme.
Difficulty is ultimately subjective. But at the same time. DS2 is the most difficult souls game to actually grapple with. I don't understand what is so wrong with people when it comes to these games. So much people emphasize bosses, when it was levels that used to define this series, and technically still does, because you will ALWAYS stay in a level longer than you do in a boss arena. And when it comes to levels, although the level design isn't "good" imo. DS2 has some of the longest and most brutal levels in the series. And so many levels too.
Well. Whatever. I don't care that much, just thought I'd answer OP. Discussion doesn't matter here anyway.
Then why do I find it the easiest and comfiest in the series
because like I said. difficulty is ultimately subjective. I used to have a more solid idea around what I mean by "a game can be objectively hard even though it's subjective". but I forgot.
at the end of the day people will interpret experiences differently. I can remember genuinely struggling with a lot of random enemies in Elden ring like rune bears, revenants, and some knights I guess. but the game never felt hard to me. never felt like I needed to "play better" or smarter. It just felt like I had to just dodge at the times I wasn't. That isn't "playing better". It's just remembering to follow the script.
Also stagger made some things feel easier. It's hard to explain. Encounters didn't feel like a puzzle to figure out like DS1. And they didn't feel like this meticulous "plan" I had to execute like DS2. They felt closer to DS3, but I'd say, even DS3 tries to be more interesting with "hazards" atleast, with stuff like it's shitty swamp, that one time you get shot by giant arrows etc. DS3 is actually when "dodge fest enemies with no regard for stamina" started. But it was still trying to be a linear dark souls game.
But DS2 encounters do feel like puzzles where every fight in DS1 is just slowly walking around enemies and spamming backstabs.
>But DS2 encounters do feel like puzzles where every fight in DS1 is just slowly walking around enemies and spamming backstabs.
You don't know what words mean. Frick off and keep your moronic thoughts to yourself if you're not even going to bother to justify them. I don't care what you think.
Wow you have nothing, amazing how DS1 is always this and that...and DS2 isn't despite every piece of evidence telling you otherwise and all you fanboys have are muh feels and miyahacki poeticism. I wanna know how this encounter isn't "puzzle like" in its approach when you get rekt if you just blindy rush in, but smarter players who use their environment and take advantage of crowd control tactics or explosive barrels prevail? Tell me. Fricking tell me. If it were DS1 the enemies would either just stand in a corner not doing anything, or you'd spam backstabs like you do every encounter in that game. And if it were DS3 you'd just spam roll away from danger. This DS2 webm uses no iframes, no backstabs, no rollspam. Just clever ingenuity and approaching a situation like an adventurer. Everything you homosexuals say souls should be about is right fricking here on full display, and it doesn't matter cause "muh ganks muh enemy placement...durrr artificial difficulty!" fricking moron adhd fanbase casual npc's.
>all those words to say absolutely fricking nothing
Just shut up
Wow, nothing. I'm shocked you guys. Durrrr DS2 baaad is all you're gonna get out of deranged detractors.
I've stupidly allowed myself to get triggered enough by this. Even though I initially wanted to not respond because of how blatantly stupid it is.
First things first. You're a genuine absolute worthless disingenuous moron that should have a nice day. You pretend the example of an open room of enemies that aren't even necessary or related to progression blocking the way to a painting is enough to generalize DS1's encounter design. But are somehow too stupid to realize how the moronic DS2 webm you post as an example is exactly equivalent.
In the painting room, one deals with enemies by approaching one at a time careful not to draw aggro from other enemies. This isn't a "puzzle". It's a "plan" like I describe DS2 encounters as. There's nothing to figure out. Nothing to solve. Nothing to even overcome. You draw enemies in one by one. The exact same thing is happening with your moronic DS2 example.
DS1 combat is often like a puzzle and I can name atleast 3 examples of this. This is a broad theme of the game's design but ill start with undead burg.
There is a bridge you have to cross. You cannot draw enemies single file to the bridge like you can in the DS2 webm. Because there are also undead throwing firebombs at the bridge so you'll die. You have to manage 2 enemies with shields at the same time in the right enclosed space across the bridge. That is the first step to the puzzle. The second step can be two different things. If you hold up your shield in that room, your stamina will drain too fast trying to get through 2 shielded enemies while holding up your shield against two enemies. You also can't roll because the space is too tight against two enemies. The solution is to position carefully and two hand your sword to break ones shield guard and seperate them from the other and repeat.
THAT is a puzzle. Multiple factors to consider. A problem that restricts your options. And an answer to a condition.
>It's not a puzzle, it's a "plan"
>literally describes a plan to overcome basic b***h ass ds1 enemies anyone with braincells will never die to in an encounter no one has ever considered hard in any way
Based analyzer. I like to compare the channeler encounter in Undead Parish to the royal soldier encounter in Lost Bastille. Same concept, completely different execution.
I really do not enjoy DS2's approach to level / encounter design for this reason. Finding the optimal "plan" to efficiently deal with each one is easy, but executing them does not make me feel good. It's a bit like the difference between Hotline Miami and Hotline Miami 2. Yes, it's trivially easy to work around HM2's level design by playing conservatively, using shift-look, and using guns. But it isn't fun. It restricts the player's agency too much, and that restriction draws attention to the artifice of the level design. It is much more difficult to get into and maintain flow state in HM2. The flow state of Dark Souls games is a little bit different because they're not about pulse-pounding action or anything, but the games still remind me of each other in that way.
you may find the other games to be easier than if you started with them.
Dark Souls 2 is 8 directional movement, to where your character will generally face one of those directions. The game also invokes a recovery time if you deplete your stamina beyond 0.
The other Souls' games have completely free form movement, larger stamina bars, and zero punishment for just spending your stamina.
Combine that with reduced stamina usage for actions, even moreso for the later titles, and yeah, i think you will just have an easier time once you find optimal pacing.
Harder than 1. Easier than 3.
i actually disagree with this, as Dark Souls 3 allows for lots of room to recover from devastating attacks. Rolling uses very little stamina. Estus chugging is fast, and you're allowed to move while drinking. Not to mention, your stamina replenishes very quickly.
Unless you go big swole armor dude only swinging heavy metal, or you're intentionally holding back on your agility, then DS3 will simply be an easier time, bosses aside.
Pretty much this. I'd say it's on par with Elden Ring aside from the bosses.
If you can't enjoy these games you probably don't even like videogames in the first place, and should stick to other boards.
Sister Friede would like to have a word with you.
harder than any other if you go STR, as you should
Stop fromslop spamming. Please. I'm so fricking tired of it.
You can go to another thread moron.
it's the hiding them that's tiring and I didn't want to blanket filter them, because that could filter things I might actually wanna see
People discovering these games is fine, but the majority of the spam threads are not that, reddit spacing-kun. Go and actually look at the numerous threads that are up this very instant. Maybe one or two are that.
Theyre popular games. Just ignore them. I hate mario games, so you know what I do? I ignore Mario threads. Its simple.
People are constantly discovering these games for the first time, and they have a legendary reputation. This will not change any time soon.
Whether or not this bothers you is for you to work out, but people are going to keep talking about these games.
I believe the Souls series will stand the test of time, and forever be a monument of rock solid quality for years to come.
>I believe the Souls series will stand the test of time, and forever be a monument of rock solid quality for years to come.
They're really poorly made games. I was kind of shocked when I played them. They look & feel like cheap knock-offs.
Get the frick out of here then. Easy fix
this is the video games board not the souls board you stupid fricking Black person
Don't click the thread then moron, or learn to filter.
It's the hardest one. The seethe about enemy placement and ganks and this and that is proof enough.
>It's the hardest one. The seethe about enemy placement and ganks and this and that is proof enough.
Whenever I see shit like this I am convinced the people claiming 2 is the hardest are low IQ bads. 2 is the easiest, not even debatable. Your lack of intelligence to lure enemies out 1 by 1 is what makes it hard.
You people still cant make up your minds whether you kite all the enemies 1 at a time, or if they all telepathically aggro together. Nothing you people say holds any truth. And also somehow the games where the enemies have their ai turned off isn't easier because...reasons! If you really wanted to play that cheese kite game DS2 objectively makes it harder to do than the others.
Areas like Earthen Peak and Iron Keep have a shitload of enemies with sneaky placement (Scholar version). Even after multiple plays it is challenging to beat swarm mentality found in DS2. DS1 can be frustrating if you are clueless about the game and get lost/cursed. DS3 is a good game, maybe the easiest of the 3
Mechanically, it's not any more difficult than Dark Souls, although not leveling ADP or the low quality of many animations may make it feel like it is. Its difficulty is mostly due to its dense level design that punishes the player for deviating from the "intended" way of playing through levels. Dark Souls and Dark Souls 3 have many more interstitial sections built into levels that act as a buffer between combat encounters, which allows the player to make more mistakes before the situation spirals out of control.
DS2 feels like a ROM hack of Dark Souls in the way that the overdesigned encounters eliminate this buffer. Every corner hides an additional enemy (Earthen Peak), every choke point is potentially a trap (Brume), every other item may or may not drop 4+ enemies on you (FoFG). There may be an enemy that summons other enemies (Undead Crypt) or enemies hiding out of sight (Black Gulch, Shrine of Amana). Or maybe the area just has way too many enemies in it, like No Man's Wharf or SotFS Iron Keep. As you're clearing one combat encounter, you're already touching the edge of the next one. If you don't know what I mean, try running through these last two areas and see how many enemies you can effortlessly roll into a death ball.
It's not quite kaizo level, but it just feels un-fun to play a lot of the time. The abundance of traps also reinforces the feeling that you're playing a ROM hack of Dark Souls. Traps were limited to mimics, Sen's Fortress, and the catacombs and Tomb of the Giants in Dark Souls. DS2 is full of generic traps. Chests trapped with bolts, trapped with poison, trapped with some sort of... spider... orb. Statues that spit poison, statues that spit fire, rat traps, floor traps, ceiling traps. More traps than 2010 Ganker.
tl;dr "Prepare to Die" and the focus on difficulty was a fricking mistake, and DS2 doubled down on Bandai-Nacmo's bullshit.
See what i mean? Look at all this seethe and cope to excuse the game is hard and it got them. But they cant accept that.
DS2 is still fun. Even when you die to the game’s cheap designs still low-key you made mistakes and deserved it lol try again. Try again and this time you see the trap or ambush and have an easier and more fun time overcoming it. And there’s plenty of bonfire to balance it out
Remember, DS1 is a game where you walk into a boss room and then you just die, or walk onto a bridge..and then you just die. But leave it to deranged DS2 detractors to act like the game is fricking them in the ass because you actually have to pay attention to your surroundings and cant iframe through fogwalls.
Oh boy, another thread where people explain the multiple obvious tells that warn you that there's a dragon around (who doesn't even kill you with his flame breath half the time)
i doubt this is serious but it's the worst one of the series and you'll like the other two a lot more
Only the first one was good. The souls games are absolute slop.
Unironically played 800+ hours of DS2 and I'll definitely come back to it.
That said, I still think 1 is harder, but maybe that's because I can first try 9 out of 10 boss battles in that motherfricker
The sheer quantity of PvP builds you can just come up with is what keeps me coming back though
PS: The DLC is broken as frick and you have to be like SL250 to even stand a chance
>The DLC is broken as frick and you have to be like SL250 to even stand a chance
Wear armors and stop getting stunlocked like a moron.
Best souls game that easily eclipses all others with is magnificence and sovlfvlness
another day, another thread in which I will DARK SOULS 2 FRICKING SUCKS
Dark Souls 2 isn't allowed to have more than one enemy on screen, or ambush you ever without triggering the muh enemy placement gays even though every souls is exactly the same with ganks, traps, ambushes, and trial and error bullshit around every corner. Even though DS2 is the one with smartest level designs and enemy placements, letting you avoid ambushes and come up behind ganks or avoid them entirely through strategic play, yet this moron casual adhd fanbase still cant help themselves but get trapped in a corner after aggroing all the mobs because they're too dumb and impatient to play a tactical adventure rpg game and think it's Mirrors Edge or Barbie Horse Adventure. Does that make any sense to anybody?
>it's Mirrors Edge
what? what the frick is this sly mental I'll comparison? mirrors edge is a platforming game. and nothing you say will ever change the fact that the DS2 character is significantly weaker than both his DS1 and DS3 counterparts despite having to deal with infinitely more enemies with greater aggros ranges. you're literally fricking moronic and have no concept of nuance. thinking "omg all le game have ganks!" means they're done in the exact same way. fricking moron. and I'm somebody who often defend against the moronicly one dimensional way people criticize DS2 despite disliking it. but then there are morons like you.
The only thing ever making a DS1 character stronger than you are in 2 is the fact poise is completely broken and cheeses the whole game of any challenge. It's an oversight. They obviously wanted the ganks and enemies to be somewhat challenging in DS1. After that though you're better in 2 in every single way. You have better weapons, more moves, duel weilding, powerstancing, more items, faster movement, omni-rolling, 360 degree sprinting locked on, more souls levels, etc. And you're gonna tell me you're stronger in 1 because why? Because the enemies in that game just stand around and dont attack you? Ok, lol. Also these games aren't about making you feel super strong anyway. You should feel vulnerable. Like you're just a guy adventuring through hostile and dangerous areas, not a action game hero. That's why you're supposed to think so that you aren't put in a situation where you have to fight 10 guys at once, or think of creative ways to use your environment, tools, or improvise.. Something DS3 doesn't understand.
I've never used a spear in these games are they good
Yeah. Long reach lets you avoid damage, and s couple of spears have a sweep strong attack that deals strike damage effective against all the knights in the game. Try Partizan or the Silverback spears.
>DS2 feels like a ROM hack of Dark Souls in the way that the overdesigned encounters eliminate this buffer.
Well said, but applies more to SOTFS, which throws more shit in just because. The original version shows more restraint.
>Well said
It's not well said. It's an empty statement with zero backing and means nothing.
SOTFS is exactly what some modder would do
>dude what if I added a summon who dual wields greatshields lol
>Memehard the Invader, my original character with no story or relevance to anything, he just invades
yeah cause what's important is for games to be unfinished and not enjoyable, you're so smart
>but this applies more to SotFS
Fair enough. I haven't played the original game in a long time, whereas I experienced SotFS over and over and over recently. I think the original is a better game, honestly. SotFS shouldn't exist.
Play Elden Ring and Demon's Souls, and then forget all about the others.
if you have 0 ADP then it is easily the hardest souls game by miles, nothing comes close
even with 30 ADP its still a pretty hard game since roll spam is simply not going to cheat most of the game like it does in das 3/elden ring
>Woah look at me I use my big brain to outsmart the enemies and conquer the puzzle!
I'm not even joking this is what goes for puzzle encounters if you're a DS1 fanboy, and yet we have a daily thread about a guy running into a room in ds2 and getting absolutely fricking rekt in 3 seconds because that shit doesn't work like it does in ds1 because you actually have to play the game well.
I could just as much name Send Fortress as an example since that entire level is filled with puzzle encounters. Ironically the one I'll highlight is another one involving a bridge. There is a bridge you have to cross. There is a snake warrior blocking your way. You can't stay open on the bridge because there is a another snake warrior above throwing lightning at you. The first step of the solution is to go under the underpass of the bridge. You can't stay blocking because your stamina will be drained. You obviously can't roll because it's a narrow bridge.
There are a couple solutions here. One solution is to literally attack the snake warrior on the bridge off the bridge With some careful positioning. The other solution is to parry. You can't waste time here. Attacking too much is risky because you can easily loose footing and fall. It's not impossible if you're careful. But the most effective answer is to parry to end it quick.
The puzzle is the fact that you're restricted to a narrow bridge. You can't rely on rolling and shielding requires some nuance. You have to consider another party who can prevent you from passing the obstacle in your way. You must figure out the most effective way to get past this enemy while taking as little damage as possible. Because remember another consideration of the game is Estus management, which ACTUALLY matters in this game.
This is NOT how DS2 plays. DS2 almost NEVER restricts you or your options. What it does is overwhelms you. Enemies with too far an aggro range. Bucket loads of enemies that charge at you. See the encounters I described in DS1? You're only ever dealing with 1-3 enemies at a time in VERY specific contexts where you have to figure out how to single out one while avoiding another.
DS2 is truly trial and error. Of formulating a plan to whittle down enemies as much as possible one by one almost always in a straight line.
>DS2 almost NEVER restricts you or your options
Except when it does exactly that and yet you people still complain that the water in Shrine of Amana slows you down, there's multiple different enemy types to contend with, there's pitfalls, there's solutions to the pitfalls in the form of a torch highlighting the path to take, but rolling from the crawling enemies or spellcasters is a problem because now you put your torch out combined with dozens of ways any player can approach this situation across limitless build variety and playstyles....but none of this counts because it's DS2 and muh artificial difficulty and "insert anecdote about just sniping at enemies with a bow" because you cant totally just snipe enemies with a bow in every souls game either, right?
>there's solutions to the pitfalls in the form of a torch highlighting the path to take
a pitfall isn't a "combat encounter" and torches aren't a fricking solution while you're actively fighting or paying attention to an enemy you fricking moron.
have a nice day and never reply to me again. also
>combined with dozens of ways any player can approach this situation across limitless build variety and playstyles....
how are people actually this moronic? I literally went through lengths to emphasize that a puzzle is about overcoming a restriction and this moron goes on to jerk himself about how DS2 has an abundance of approaches and playstyles so it's actually good puzzle like encounter design? literally have a nice day you worthless no reading comprehension moron. you couldn't even do the bare minimum of giving a good counter argument for me to shut down because you didn't even understand what was being said in the first place.
A bridge isn't a "combat encounter" either but that didn't stop you from pretending DS1 is a puzzle game.
> I literally went through lengths to emphasize that a puzzle is about overcoming a restriction
And subsequently contradicted yourself when slow movement, confined spaces, and pitfalls isn't a "restrictions" in DS2 derangment fantasy land
>DS2 has an abundance of approaches and playstyles so it's actually good puzzle like encounter design?
Yes, because not one of those solutions is running in like a yolo moron spamming backstabs like 99% of DS1 encounters are.
okay so you're actually just a disingenuous moron that can't respond directly to anything he doesn't like.
>A bridge isn't a "combat encounter" either but that didn't stop you from pretending DS1 is a puzzle game.
This isn't an argument. You're just making an empty statement because you don't like something, which I don't care for. I gave SPECIFIC reasons why DS1's encounters were a puzzle. And you gave NO counter whatsoever to what I actually said. You just said the opposite. Can't believe I'm even responding to something like this. It's absurd how fricking stupid you're allowed to be in this world.
>And subsequently contradicted yourself when slow movement, confined spaces, and pitfalls isn't a "restrictions" in DS2 derangment fantasy land
I already outlined the problem with "pitfalls". That's not a restriction. A bridge or a confined space is a CLEAR and contextually relevant restriction. It makes complete sense why an exposed bridge would lead to the conditions I outlined it does.
An "invisible pitfall that the game doesn't even remotely expect you to use a torch for". Isn't a solution. Not only because of the point I made about how moronic the idea of fighting while wielding a torch is, especially against ranged fricking enemies you have to divide awareness between. But also because it's not a "solution" at all.
In my bridge example. The solution wasn't seeing that there was a bridge you could fall off of...that would be OBVIOUSLY fricking moronic. "Awareness" isn't intelligence. So DS1 didn't cheat and try to pull an awareness trick on you with its encounters. It made you actually DEAL directly with the enemy and the context of its level design.
Fricking moron with no intelligence or self awareness whatsoever.
DONT respond again. This was final. KYS promptly.
You dont have an argument. You're just redefinig what "restrictions" and "puzzles" are on a per game basis because you're biased towards DS1 and have DS2 derangement syndrome.
>"invisible pitfall that the game doesn't even remotely expect you to use a torch for"
The only invisible pitfalls are in DS1. There's lit torches on the path for you.
> Not only because of the point I made about how moronic the idea of fighting while wielding a torch is, especially against ranged fricking enemies you have to divide awareness between. But also because it's not a "solution" at all.
All you have is "it's moronic...cause reasons" when it's all these elements working together is what makes something fun and unique. A mage could even use a cast light spell. That thing about different builds overcoming scenarios multiple different ways. DS1 doesn't have "solutions" anymore than this scenario in DS2 does.
>It made you actually DEAL directly with the enemy and the context of its level design.
You just described shrine of amana but it doesn't count because it never fricking counts when it's DS2 cause it's DS2 and ughhh muh miyazaki. That's literally all it is. Those enemies individually in wide open dry land wouldn't be challenging. It's because of the level design and combination of enemies that makes it challenging, plus the restrictions put on the player. But in DS2 derangment fantasy land that's still not enough, but a bridge in DS1 is for some reason. Shrine of Amana is 10x more creative and has more going on than narrow bridge. Which exist in DS2 btw.
Not that anon, but Shrine of Amana is the perfect example of how "overdesigned" DS2's level and encounter design is, though. All of those concepts you described sound interesting in the abstract, but in actuality SoA is an extremely unpleasant experience that forces the player to spin too many plates.
>walk into room
>wizard is shooting at you (1 plate)
>walk towards wizard
>fall into a pit hidden by the water while dodging spells
>realize you can light a torch to see the pits, realize that there's SoA is basically a narrow walkway (2 plates)
>realize there are enemies in the water
>enemies are attacking you because carrying a lit torch attracts them (3 plates)
>can't roll in the water because rolling will extinguish your torch (4 plates)
>light torch to attract enemies in water, retreat to dry land, kill enemies while dodging spells from wizard
>approach wizard
>next wizard / archdrake pilgrim aggros as you're finally killing the first one
It's too much in too little a space. It's frustrating, and because it's frustrating players are encouraged to find the optimal way to "deal with it" - a problem to be solved rather than a challenge to be overcome.
Even one of the worst areas in Elden Ring, Lake of Rot, is careful not to overload the player at any given point. It presents on central challenge (you're basically permanently rotted) and then iterates on it in small, incremental, discrete encounters. A basilisk here, a group of basilisks there. A dragokin soldier surrounded by small platforms that the player has to raise. And then the lower area where half of the cover that can shield you from the rot shrimps projectile attacks is in a stream of rot. It never throws all of this at you at once.
>It doesn't count because it's too "unpleasent" and it's ughhh hard
Wow amazing youtube analysis. Could have fooled me. And i thought all these obstacles was why it's so much fun to play, but you just redefined it as "overdesigned" because it actually made you think and gameplay was more than hitting the iframe button at the right time, or chaining backstabs. But I forgot this moron casual "git gud"(lol) fanbase isn't hardcore.
or don't light a torch in the area of the game that screams "don't light a torch" and avoid spinning half your plates.
Schizos will tell you it's the easiest but also complain that everything about it is unfair, so that should answer the question for you.
>try to post one of DS2gay's webms
>Error: Duplicate file exists here
lol
lmao
i have like 2000 hours on SOTFS just fricking people over, had to use cheat engine to get them red eye orbs but it was worth it
I personally liked majula. Frick you Black folk.
the bosses are terrible, all complete pushovers including the DLCs. The fact that Fume "I only have 4 attacks" Knight is considered by far the hardest boss in the game is embarrassing
all they could think of for "hard" was moronic enemy placement and that's enough to make this schizo constantly write giant essays in threads about how le good it is
>Fume has 4 attacks
ok schizo.
half the bosses are actually minibosses but zoom-zooms can't wrap their heads around this.
the game also gives players 2 different difficulty sliders. the bosses are not at all easy NG+ CoC.
Its the only souls where it took 2 full playthroughs for me to appreciate.
DS2 is a fundamentals check. It's the slowest and most stamina-heavy of any souls game. It's far from the hardest in terms of mechanical execution and reflexes but it punishes mistakes and bad button presses harder than any other especially when it comes to the levels and basic mobs. The ceiling of difficutly is not hard but the skill floor is a little more demanding.
I remember when DS3 became popular and players tried to go back to DS2 and they started eating shit to Pursuer because DS3 quite simply doesn't skill check stamina or spacing in that way.