You're right, only mentally deficient mouthbreathers are triggered by the compass markers in Skyrim.
Not everyone is a lowlife neet, anon. Some of us don't have 20 hours a day to play video games, and the extra fat getting trimmed is a good thing for us.
>>me can get to target using text, me smart cuz me no use quest mark, look how smart me is, you is stupid
nobody says this, it's always the inverse. it's always actual morons who are genuinely too stupid to follow basic written directions. really tells you everything about the skyrim fanbase.
Not everyone is a lowlife neet, anon. Some of us don't have 20 hours a day to play video games, and the extra fat getting trimmed is a good thing for us.
people like you are one of the reasons cool secrets aren't going to happen in games anymore
obviously datamining exists, but even then we're unlikely to get anymore ridiculous secret shit, because of designing games around frickers like you who want to see everything in one go
modern games are a race to the bottom to include all possible un-ableist people there are.
i just tried elder scrolls online and i literally felt my spitting dripping out of my mouth while playing this braindead easy piece of shit
Skyrim is more popular also there are a ton of 7th gen nostalgiagays on Ganker who don't want to admit that shit like Oblivion, Gears of War, Uncharted, etc, are fricking awful games that have aged like garbage
There's a reason a good chunk of the guild thinks Trebonius is an idiot and wants him gone. Even if you parrot the excuse that he was playing politics (like some), he still shouldn't be wasting the time and potentially lives of promising recruits.
>plant by telvanni >Ah, the current Guildmaster. It is rumored that he was promoted to his current position to get him out of Cyrodiil. It is a shame that men can have power without wisdom. It is different for us lizards.
Definitely not a plant also considering the letter Ocato sends him during the questline.
>ajira writers in her plant reports that she did all the work herself >doesn't tell you about the warlock's ring and staff of magnus until you're a high rank probably so she can use it to kiss up to you
Mages Guild is full of pricks. Trebonius is just more in your face about it.
you can
if you are follow the mages guild quests you can find books that are enough of the evidence to say that they tried to defeat mortality and were punished for that
sure its not the clearest answer but its better then anyone could propose before
You piece together probably the most likely theory of why they went poof, plus got an interview with the last living dwarf. That ought to count for something.
Onlything that pisses me off is trying to install mods just to have animations that won't work which I then have to go back 5 steps just to do everything all over again
Replaying Morrowind is like a breath of fresh air when it comes to this.
There are some obvious kinks in the system but nothing you can't iron out.
You can even stream-line it by having more sophisticated index and categorization systems in the journal.
The crucial point is makes sense logically for your avatar to know.
A zoomer literally cannot for the life of himself beat the first level of
Lord of The Rings - The fellowship of the Ring
Classic game, they just cant beat it
Is all fun and games until the NPC tell you "Go to The North, you should know what to do next"
The North, an old man hidden in a cave at the south east of the map
>hello I am Romulus Scromulus here to tell you about biwehouw amaranth talos shorr shezarrine qwhfoqhwob dragonbreak kalpa dreugh iuwhviuoqhc CHIM the dreamer ALMSIVI nqwkhoqhw copypasted hindu mythology >book ends on page 3 >Well I'm Scromulus Romulus and I'm here to say that my colleague is completely wrong CHIM godhead amaranth talos dragonbreak marukh lkakhoiqeevevw copypasted greek metaphysics >book ends on page 4
great reads, honestly
>hello I am Romulus Scromulus here to tell you about biwehouw amaranth talos shorr shezarrine qwhfoqhwob dragonbreak kalpa dreugh iuwhviuoqhc CHIM the dreamer ALMSIVI nqwkhoqhw copypasted hindu mythology >book ends on page 3 >Well I'm Scromulus Romulus and I'm here to say that my colleague is completely wrong CHIM godhead amaranth talos dragonbreak marukh lkakhoiqeevevw copypasted greek metaphysics >book ends on page 4
great reads, honestly
>creates fast travel removing the point of traveling >creates magical gps >removes natural transport points >removes levitation and teleportation
frick of its all started in oblivion
>Quest started: Reply to a moron >I replied to a moron on Ganker today. I should call him moronic. >[Continue] [Make this my active quest]
You're moronic. >Quest update: Reply to a moron >I called the moron moronic. >[Continue] [Make this my active quest]
Oblivion is shit and only deluded nostalgiagays like it. It's one of the worst games ever fricking made. >Quest complete: Reply to a moron >After calling the moron moronic, I also called Oblivion shit. He will likely cry about this fact, but I will give him no further (You)s. >[Continue]
You laugh, but when asking some highschool/college age zoomers about what kinds of books they like to read I have had several unironically tell me that everyone reads and shares manga these days instead of books.
I don't know if I'm just weird, but I always thought comics/manga were the worst of both worlds, and I'd rather either read a book or watch a movie/animation. At least for more story heavy stuff
>thinking a pro-morrowind image is bait
lmao you Black folk are a hoot. damn shame important information typically isn't that in-depth
Numerous quests in morrowind suck though as you flat out are given incorrect or far too little information. "Search in (location)" means "dick around at (location) and maybe you'll find it" for too many quests.
Honestly that kind of shit worked back in the day where people weren't checking their phones every 5 seconds, had 200 tabs open and were watching 5 different shows/movies at 4x speed.
You had time to spend a whole day/week/month playing a game and knowing its ins and outs.
These days they make games fairly large due to the open world meme so it would take you hundreds and hundreds of hours to explore "on your own" and find secrets. You'd essentially lose momentum and the will to play long before that.
Does anyone at this point really have 2-3 hours to just run around figuring which path they needed to take or what the instructions meant by "turn at the fifth tree". Give me a break.
>look up the level requirements for some of the main quests i've completed out of curiosity >last quest i did had a requirement of 6 >i was level 18
whoops
>join KGB irl >first assignment in east Germany >get a job to do as a front and cover for your real one >all day with the peeps in Berlin >shake hands with Reagan while you larp as an upstanding citizen
>game is an rpg >go wherever, do whatever, it's your story >suddenly, quest marker telling you where to go always
one nail in the coffin >also fast travel
people just insta travel back and forth between locations, another nail in the coffin
then you end up with shit like skyrim that is just a mindless hack n slash game with no rpg elements. It's a good action game, but still, rpgs are fricking dead.
The abundance of quest markers is largely due to the massively overinflated scope of AAA games and the lack of talent they employ to get that scope completed.
You could include memorable geographic features, diegetic maps, create a world that feels human-traversable and continuously revamp NPC dialogue + quest descriptions to give enough directions to complete the quest (and subsequently test thousands of lines of text and hours of dialogue for errors) OR you could include a quest marker that's tied to the entity you need to interact with.
This massively cuts back on development time and testing but it definitely locks you out of a lot of approaches to quest and objective design and you're similarly left with a more deficient world since it will feel fake by design.
>secret quest >get all excited >reward is basically useless >killing some random enemies and looting them would give better rewards
why do games do this?
i thought it was neat how for this quest in oblivion, he actually marks it on your map. it was a neat immersive touch unlike mosts of the quests that just give you the marker automatically
The game should make smart use of both.
A quest marker is fine when someone marks a cave in your map, but when you have to find something or kill a target it's more fun to have a diary description and find it yourself.
>argument against quest markers is "they hamper exploration, they take away mystery, they make the game too simple and easy, they don't make sense like when quest markers point to things that you weren't told the location of, they can actually be confusing when there are multiple levels to a dungeon, they hamper engagement with the world, etc" >argument against directions is "um i actually have a life nerds i just want theme park games kthxbye"
For me the worst part of quest markers is that they lead to a lazily designed world
Instead of making a town or a game world where things are just intuitive to find you rely on quest markers. Instead of designing a city like an actual city that people actually live in and need to navigate on a daily basis, you use a quest marker. Instead of creating unique geographical features or markers that can be used by other NPCs to describe to players where to find things, you use a quest marker.
>you have to kill fighters guild leader to become guild master >you have to kill mage guild leader to become guild master >Morag Tong the assassins guild >no real drama inside the guild >grandmaster willingly gives up his position because be sees no problem in you as a leader and ready to retire
Why imperials and their organizations are so incompetent
You have to kill Bolvyn Venim and Gothren to reach the highest rank in their guilds, and Orvas Dren can be killed to be the highest ranking Hlaalu. Really I think it's just drawing parallels. The Dark Elves are seen as ruthless but the Imperials have pretty much just as much murder and treachery in their society too.
I don't mind having text but in Morrowind they are often not precise enough. In WoW for example they always gave you cardinals like "north west from here", "next to the the furbolg camp" or whatever. For Caius they should give you a bit more clue about which area of the city he is in, atleast the side of the river idk.
>not instantly teleporting me to the quest dungeon which is one room with one boss enemy which I kill then I automatically get the quest item added to my inventory then instantly teleport back to the quest giver
Skyrim needs to stop wasting my time.
Honestly I haven't played Morrowind much and Skyrim a lot. Text quest book is superior to GPS. It forces you to pay attention to the world and especially interact with NPCs around you. Way, way more immersive. It's a shame no big budget RPG will ever EVER dare to do it again. One thing you guys have to admit however, Morrowind was a lil heavy handed sometimes with absolute walls of texts.
If you like it more power to you. To my eyes walls of texts associated with quest objectives is a bit bad design and writing. In that case you should be concise and straight to the point. Ofc a lilttle flavor and lore could be added here and there to not seem artificial.
>Good writing is an art
an art you apparently have no knowledge of otherwise you wouldn't make blanket statements like "a lot of text is always bad" or use moronic phrases like "wall of text"
2 years ago
Anonymous
I've never said a lot of text is always bad. It all comes down to the purpose of said text. >moronic phrases like "wall of text"
English is not my mother-tongue. Did not know it was this pejorative.
Nice ad hominem, by the way.
the problem is that morrowind's journal directions are horrifically vague and you'll end up going into 4 different caves before you find the right one.
i DO agree that objective markers are gay but morrowind's alternative was not perfect.
stop pretending quest markers are a bad thing. TW3 is the greatest RPG of all time despite every single quest being based around magic witcher sense. The fact of the matter is, hand holding quest design is based.
>me can get to target using text, me smart cuz me no use quest mark, look how smart me is, you is stupid
it's not like he's wrong
it really did trigger you, anon
Immediately triggered, impressive.
Triggered mentally deficient mouthbreathers.
Triggered mentally deficient mouthbreather.
>>me can get to target using text, me smart cuz me no use quest mark, look how smart me is, you is stupid
nobody says this, it's always the inverse. it's always actual morons who are genuinely too stupid to follow basic written directions. really tells you everything about the skyrim fanbase.
This, you're not smart cause you can follow the directions, you're stupid because you can't.
This but unironically, modern gamers don't have reading ability to get to the target using only text
They know there is a better way and would lose interest.Do you take the stairs when the elevator exists?
Yeah?
Sounds like something a fat american would say
>Why exercise when there's an easier way?
Get fricked looolll
You're right, only mentally deficient mouthbreathers are triggered by the compass markers in Skyrim.
Not everyone is a lowlife neet, anon. Some of us don't have 20 hours a day to play video games, and the extra fat getting trimmed is a good thing for us.
>fat analogy
Hit the gym.
>not everyone can follow basic instructions
sure thing grug, go back to smashing rocks against each other for fun
>must coonsoom product faster so I can consume other products
people like you are one of the reasons cool secrets aren't going to happen in games anymore
obviously datamining exists, but even then we're unlikely to get anymore ridiculous secret shit, because of designing games around frickers like you who want to see everything in one go
both are shit
modern games are a race to the bottom to include all possible un-ableist people there are.
i just tried elder scrolls online and i literally felt my spitting dripping out of my mouth while playing this braindead easy piece of shit
Morrowind was never good.
Why is the right one not Oblivion?
That game started that shit, not Skyrim.
Skyrim is more popular also there are a ton of 7th gen nostalgiagays on Ganker who don't want to admit that shit like Oblivion, Gears of War, Uncharted, etc, are fricking awful games that have aged like garbage
.
>quest:solve a mystery of dwarfs
>a thousand year old mystery with 0 clues or directions
>you can do it
>0 reward
he set you up for failure and never thought that you'd actually do it
i remember it giving you some major rep in the guild when completed though
The reward is the journey.
Also it's pretty under-utilized in Morrowind but having npcs lie and give you faulty information should be more common.
Reminds me of the oasis quest in stalker and the reward u get was like 8k roubles
There's a reason a good chunk of the guild thinks Trebonius is an idiot and wants him gone. Even if you parrot the excuse that he was playing politics (like some), he still shouldn't be wasting the time and potentially lives of promising recruits.
>There's a reason everyone thinks he's an idiot
>Noooo not that reason! That makes him seem like an butthole too!
He sucks as a mage too
He is only good because he has good enchanted gear
So he might be a plant by telvani
But its not their style so i doubt it
>plant by telvanni
>Ah, the current Guildmaster. It is rumored that he was promoted to his current position to get him out of Cyrodiil. It is a shame that men can have power without wisdom. It is different for us lizards.
Definitely not a plant also considering the letter Ocato sends him during the questline.
>ajira writers in her plant reports that she did all the work herself
>doesn't tell you about the warlock's ring and staff of magnus until you're a high rank probably so she can use it to kiss up to you
Mages Guild is full of pricks. Trebonius is just more in your face about it.
This
I still remember that fricking healer in Maar Gan that was accused of necromancy. Mage's guild are a bunch of shitlords
you dont actually solve the mystery though
you can
if you are follow the mages guild quests you can find books that are enough of the evidence to say that they tried to defeat mortality and were punished for that
sure its not the clearest answer but its better then anyone could propose before
You piece together probably the most likely theory of why they went poof, plus got an interview with the last living dwarf. That ought to count for something.
>it did actually trigger mentally deficient mouthbreathers
It always does without fail.
Onlything that pisses me off is trying to install mods just to have animations that won't work which I then have to go back 5 steps just to do everything all over again
Replaying Morrowind is like a breath of fresh air when it comes to this.
There are some obvious kinks in the system but nothing you can't iron out.
You can even stream-line it by having more sophisticated index and categorization systems in the journal.
The crucial point is makes sense logically for your avatar to know.
A zoomer literally cannot for the life of himself beat the first level of
Lord of The Rings - The fellowship of the Ring
Classic game, they just cant beat it
True. Morrowboomers can't seem to cope.
>Plays Elder Scrolls
>Thinks they're above mentally deficient mouthbreathers.
Woo lad.
>implying there are any alternatives
open world rpg games are literally a dead genre for almost a decade
Is all fun and games until the NPC tell you "Go to The North, you should know what to do next"
The North, an old man hidden in a cave at the south east of the map
Imagine just buying the game and going to factory.
The books are really good, but I prefer reading on an eink device.
>hello I am Romulus Scromulus here to tell you about biwehouw amaranth talos shorr shezarrine qwhfoqhwob dragonbreak kalpa dreugh iuwhviuoqhc CHIM the dreamer ALMSIVI nqwkhoqhw copypasted hindu mythology
>book ends on page 3
>Well I'm Scromulus Romulus and I'm here to say that my colleague is completely wrong CHIM godhead amaranth talos dragonbreak marukh lkakhoiqeevevw copypasted greek metaphysics
>book ends on page 4
great reads, honestly
Funny
>Not too hot
>not too cold
>just right
>creates fast travel removing the point of traveling
>creates magical gps
>removes natural transport points
>removes levitation and teleportation
frick of its all started in oblivion
>Quest started: Reply to a moron
>I replied to a moron on Ganker today. I should call him moronic.
>[Continue] [Make this my active quest]
You're moronic.
>Quest update: Reply to a moron
>I called the moron moronic.
>[Continue] [Make this my active quest]
Oblivion is shit and only deluded nostalgiagays like it. It's one of the worst games ever fricking made.
>Quest complete: Reply to a moron
>After calling the moron moronic, I also called Oblivion shit. He will likely cry about this fact, but I will give him no further (You)s.
>[Continue]
Skyrim's is superior, show don't tell.
Comics are better than books bro, show dont tell! Just like the uneducated youtubers tell me!
You laugh, but when asking some highschool/college age zoomers about what kinds of books they like to read I have had several unironically tell me that everyone reads and shares manga these days instead of books.
I don't know if I'm just weird, but I always thought comics/manga were the worst of both worlds, and I'd rather either read a book or watch a movie/animation. At least for more story heavy stuff
>Let me mark it on your map
Bad bait. Try harder.
>thinking a pro-morrowind image is bait
lmao you Black folk are a hoot. damn shame important information typically isn't that in-depth
Numerous quests in morrowind suck though as you flat out are given incorrect or far too little information. "Search in (location)" means "dick around at (location) and maybe you'll find it" for too many quests.
>marrowind
>even mention skyrim
tourist
>writing
Use your memory. What's next, you will demand a map?
Honestly that kind of shit worked back in the day where people weren't checking their phones every 5 seconds, had 200 tabs open and were watching 5 different shows/movies at 4x speed.
You had time to spend a whole day/week/month playing a game and knowing its ins and outs.
These days they make games fairly large due to the open world meme so it would take you hundreds and hundreds of hours to explore "on your own" and find secrets. You'd essentially lose momentum and the will to play long before that.
Does anyone at this point really have 2-3 hours to just run around figuring which path they needed to take or what the instructions meant by "turn at the fifth tree". Give me a break.
>Does anyone at this point really have 2-3 hours to play video games
i mean, yeah.
can someone actually give a specific example of a morrowind quest where the directions are wrong or unclear?
>here is your first quest
>listen carefully
>get a fricking job
you can actually still get the first quest anyway if you ask again, even at level 1
I think there's a hard level requirement a little later though
>look up the level requirements for some of the main quests i've completed out of curiosity
>last quest i did had a requirement of 6
>i was level 18
whoops
>meanwhile pass me that pipe over there
>what? *puff*, *puff*
>it'sss deep cover...maaan.
>join KGB irl
>first assignment in east Germany
>get a job to do as a front and cover for your real one
>all day with the peeps in Berlin
>shake hands with Reagan while you larp as an upstanding citizen
obligatory
>game is an rpg
>go wherever, do whatever, it's your story
>suddenly, quest marker telling you where to go always
one nail in the coffin
>also fast travel
people just insta travel back and forth between locations, another nail in the coffin
then you end up with shit like skyrim that is just a mindless hack n slash game with no rpg elements. It's a good action game, but still, rpgs are fricking dead.
They miss being told the exact starting point and path to follow. Obedience is something NPCs crave. It reenforces their programming.
The abundance of quest markers is largely due to the massively overinflated scope of AAA games and the lack of talent they employ to get that scope completed.
You could include memorable geographic features, diegetic maps, create a world that feels human-traversable and continuously revamp NPC dialogue + quest descriptions to give enough directions to complete the quest (and subsequently test thousands of lines of text and hours of dialogue for errors) OR you could include a quest marker that's tied to the entity you need to interact with.
This massively cuts back on development time and testing but it definitely locks you out of a lot of approaches to quest and objective design and you're similarly left with a more deficient world since it will feel fake by design.
>secret quest
>get all excited
>reward is basically useless
>killing some random enemies and looting them would give better rewards
why do games do this?
And yet morrowalkgays couldn't find Caius Cosades in Balmora.
Sad!
i wish morrowind wasnt on crunch
who knows what kind of game would turn out if they had time
i thought it was neat how for this quest in oblivion, he actually marks it on your map. it was a neat immersive touch unlike mosts of the quests that just give you the marker automatically
>TEXT TEXT TEXT TEXT
the left can't meme
The game should make smart use of both.
A quest marker is fine when someone marks a cave in your map, but when you have to find something or kill a target it's more fun to have a diary description and find it yourself.
Why do zoomers hate reading so much?
Both sides of this trigger one kind of person or another.
left
>words words words
right
>going to true progress without wasting time
reminds me of real life hehehe
but games are made to waste time
games are made to enjoy your time. bumbling around, looking for an entrance isn't fun.
Harems are cool and all
But banging your clones is still kind of gay
Some people are just really bad with directions.
Giving them, I mean. Jesus fricking Christ.
Both games are bad
>inb4 obliviongay
Oblivion sucks too
>argument against quest markers is "they hamper exploration, they take away mystery, they make the game too simple and easy, they don't make sense like when quest markers point to things that you weren't told the location of, they can actually be confusing when there are multiple levels to a dungeon, they hamper engagement with the world, etc"
>argument against directions is "um i actually have a life nerds i just want theme park games kthxbye"
How about this argument: reading is for fricking gaywads
I'd call you a homosexual but I wouldn't want to confuse you with too many words.
For me the worst part of quest markers is that they lead to a lazily designed world
Instead of making a town or a game world where things are just intuitive to find you rely on quest markers. Instead of designing a city like an actual city that people actually live in and need to navigate on a daily basis, you use a quest marker. Instead of creating unique geographical features or markers that can be used by other NPCs to describe to players where to find things, you use a quest marker.
Is there wven signposts in oblivion and skyrim?
Or town greating boards?
Only the dumbest fricking morons prefer the left.
>you have to kill fighters guild leader to become guild master
>you have to kill mage guild leader to become guild master
>Morag Tong the assassins guild
>no real drama inside the guild
>grandmaster willingly gives up his position because be sees no problem in you as a leader and ready to retire
Why imperials and their organizations are so incompetent
You have to kill Bolvyn Venim and Gothren to reach the highest rank in their guilds, and Orvas Dren can be killed to be the highest ranking Hlaalu. Really I think it's just drawing parallels. The Dark Elves are seen as ruthless but the Imperials have pretty much just as much murder and treachery in their society too.
I don't mind having text but in Morrowind they are often not precise enough. In WoW for example they always gave you cardinals like "north west from here", "next to the the furbolg camp" or whatever. For Caius they should give you a bit more clue about which area of the city he is in, atleast the side of the river idk.
>For Caius they should give you a bit more clue about which area of the city he is in, atleast the side of the river idk.
They do, what the frick?
Not directly. You've got to go in a house, a bar of some sort, and someone there tells you "go up the stairs then to the left" or smthing like that.
Nvm I'm moronic it's literally written to go to the club in the quest
>wastes your time vs doesn't waste your time
hmm
>not instantly teleporting me to the quest dungeon which is one room with one boss enemy which I kill then I automatically get the quest item added to my inventory then instantly teleport back to the quest giver
Skyrim needs to stop wasting my time.
Honestly I haven't played Morrowind much and Skyrim a lot. Text quest book is superior to GPS. It forces you to pay attention to the world and especially interact with NPCs around you. Way, way more immersive. It's a shame no big budget RPG will ever EVER dare to do it again. One thing you guys have to admit however, Morrowind was a lil heavy handed sometimes with absolute walls of texts.
>Morrowind was a lil heavy handed sometimes with absolute walls of texts
Good.
If you like it more power to you. To my eyes walls of texts associated with quest objectives is a bit bad design and writing. In that case you should be concise and straight to the point. Ofc a lilttle flavor and lore could be added here and there to not seem artificial.
What? Do you want a story and characters or just "go here do this?"
Something in the middle. Good writing is an art.
>Good writing is an art
an art you apparently have no knowledge of otherwise you wouldn't make blanket statements like "a lot of text is always bad" or use moronic phrases like "wall of text"
I've never said a lot of text is always bad. It all comes down to the purpose of said text.
>moronic phrases like "wall of text"
English is not my mother-tongue. Did not know it was this pejorative.
Nice ad hominem, by the way.
Once you get into Morrowind, you will feel like there is too little text even. You just want more.
Honestly, I didn't get into it first. But now I gathered some infos and got somewhat of a plan Once I'm done with my current game I will dive into it.
Lmfao frickin saved, thanks
cuck
>he saved embeded CP
Enjoy you sentence
You sentance bad.
homie I work a full time job and am about to have a family. I just wanna come home and unwind, not work a second job
the problem is that morrowind's journal directions are horrifically vague and you'll end up going into 4 different caves before you find the right one.
i DO agree that objective markers are gay but morrowind's alternative was not perfect.
>This triggers mentally deficient mouthbreathers.
aka z**mers
stop pretending quest markers are a bad thing. TW3 is the greatest RPG of all time despite every single quest being based around magic witcher sense. The fact of the matter is, hand holding quest design is based.