Thoughts on this game? Fantasy settings are so much cooler than regular humans tanks and guns
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Thoughts on this game? Fantasy settings are so much cooler than regular humans tanks and guns
It turned total war into a asiatic clicker since it's more important to activate abilities and spells then using formations and tactics.
Even units that can use specific formations just get a number buff and the shape of the formation barely maters.
Making domination the only ranked mode just proves it.
>It turned total war into a asiatic clicker
Rome 2 did that.
t. clicks attack-move and watches idly for 10+ minutes while his troops fight with 0 input
The formation of your army as a whole is extremely important lol. Literally the difference between losing and getting heroic victories
Never played 3 because of my problems with 2. Played 2 with all the expansions and DLC. At a certain point the game just isn't fun because the AI is braindead. The only way to increase the challenge is to give the AI more cheats but at that point it becomes a tedious slog of grinding down a guy with basically infinite doomstacks while you have 0 room for error. The legendary players are basically speedrunners. They think the way to play is to have a gigantic library of knowledge of all the exploits and issues the AI has. Like they'll stand in a spot the AI doesn't know how to get to and grind down the enemy army 1 unit at a time. Or they will send out their hero and make him run back and forth until the enemy army runs out of ammo.
Also I realized the game doesn't have as much variety as it looks on the surface, because they stopped adding strategic differences to each faction and instead opt'd for buffs or copying elements between factions. I was holding out for chorfs but they just copy pasted a bunch of mechanics from other factions, so it's looking like a pretty generic faction.
These games have so much potential to be good, but alas.
>It turned total war into a asiatic clicker
The units are WAAAAAYYY too clunky and unresponsive for that.
You need to own the prior games to access that content. It's still in the game and you get the quality of life improvements but they're locked off. You can't play vampires without owning WH1 for example. I think in WH2 you don't even get the gigantic overworld map with both games without owning 1. In WH3 you get the map with all 3 games but you still can't play the other races until you buy the game/dlc they belong to.
>at that point it becomes a tedious slog of grinding down a guy with basically infinite doomstacks while you have 0 room for error
Also in a lot of campaigns your first 5-10 turns are going to be identical, because if you deviate at all you'll slow yourself down too much and turn the rest of the game into a slog. Then the best part of the game happens because you (sometimes) have a choice of who to fight next and not everyone has doomstacks yet. After turn 25 or 35 suddenly everyone has their best units which is all you'll see for the rest of the game. The game becomes just systematically wiping out the remaining factions, while trying to not provoke ones that would make it really annoying to defend the massive boarder you have.
This makes it so some of the lords don't have much replay-ability, so if you have a favorite lord, you'll end up just fighting the same 2-3 enemies at the start and the unique aspects of your LL become less important. There is surprisingly little variety in this game. You'll occasionally see a meme army like Bugman's Rangers, but for the most part it's just going to be spamming the most cost-effective units.
>Also in a lot of campaigns your first 5-10 turns are going to be identical, because if you deviate at all you'll slow yourself down too much and turn the rest of the game into a slog.
I think that they are paradoxically also the most fun, even if you are forced to preform. No-one has their elite units yet and you usually need to play around some real awkward compositions, either from you or the AI. Lategame when everyone has their doomstacks I would not be able to differentiate battles, but that early-game battle where my army bringing in the first 8 grudge-throwers got ambushed by an army of 19 ork boyz is interesting and memorable.
It really is. Skarsnik, Arkham and Belegar are the most fun I've had in the game. They all require you to adopt a weird strategy, like with Arkham I really had to rely on shattering broken units with my hounds. The lategame doomstack shit really is a blight on this game, because like you said, every fight is the fricking same.
>because they stopped adding strategic differences and instead opted for buffs or copying
That is every game in 2023 thoughever. Youtubers and streamers, those money leeching c**ts, complain like the pampered babies they are together with redditors when something is different or op and their favorite faction is not the most powerful. Look at the discussion around Chorfs and the seething at Bullcentaurs and the Trains if you don't believe me.
given that every faction has fans and influencers sucking PR wiener 24/7, they settle on making everything average to level things out. I mean, have you played MMOs or any other semi competitive game in the last ten years? Everything is pretty much the same with some minor aesthetic differences people confuse for variety when actual variety would have an impact on gameplay.
The devs are also more mediocre with game design and art/design both being degrees in nu-academia producing the most average graduates, like in any field, but, again, I think it's more so serving the consumer as presented by polls and the data marketing companies buy from google, amazon, socialmedia etc. which is messing up creativity. The fact that all of this garbage information is considered, that influencers actually do have a massive impact on companies, and the average influence is at best a midwit, but most likely a dimwit making a perfect example and beacon for their followers to become the same.
This data funnel paired with finance forever growth expectations by public companies created an environment not only not condusive but actively harmful to creative expression.
Only someone entirely out of the loop can nowadays create a good media. That's why we're seeing/we've seen so many minor European studios making good games.
I still preordered Chaos Dwarfs. They destroyed modding to such a degree and all decent modders are being funneled into the industry that I have no choice but to rely on DLC for even the aesthetic differences and flavor I want from a game. I don't want to play every faction, I want to play the factions I like from the lore. The Dawi Zharr being something I've been wanting to see since TWW1.
>They destroyed modding
>So you decided to continue giving them your money, encouraging them to continue destroying modding
Activates the almonds, old boy.
you're trying to reason with a scripted npc, anon
I still want to check out Chorfs but I'm also so jaded on the state of the game I can hold out for a long time. You pretty much touched on all my issues with not only this game but most recent games.
I'm thinking they won't be reduced until the next DLC which will come out who knows when, and I don't bother saving only five bucks on online purchases by waiting on dubious key resellers.
I think I'm at least getting twenty hours out of them so I would spend the money. At that point every hour I spend playing the game I'm more so getting my money's worth. That's no reason to actually play the game, but an argument if you want to save the money.
I don't believe in not buying something for idealistic reasons. The general consumer market has become so large that only something being grossly offensive to even the bottom of taste could realistically cut into margins for a company.
The actual question, as you mentioned, is whether you want to play TWW3 at all, which is more so a question about playing a total war game this year.
You could besides for the newest entry in the series franchise play Attila, Rome II, Empire or Napoleon, and Medieval II or Rome 1 if you can stomach the user interface and performance. If you're not in the mood to play any of these you're simply not in the mood to play a Total War game and would instead play something different. That's how I rationalize it.
I want to play this right now, I have to spend money, I have the money to spend, there's no reason to not buy it. If I regret my decision I might be able to refund, if not I can be proud to at least have thought about it and my fault lies in expecting more of the product, being jaded again, or overestimating my desire to play this, right now.
Buying into the ideology of not giving CA your money is just wasting your money elsewhere. With all the subsidies going around in the First World it's probably not even *your money*, strictly speaking, which you are wasting.
That we're all in this thread shows a modicum of interest that could hinge you on a decision to buy, and to marketers that's almost a sale anyway. It's just a matter of engagement and future price reductions.
>Attila
Shit perfomance + game design problems.
>Rome II
No walls, too easy to conq world. Dei fix some of problems, but have it own problems. A lot more than vanilla rome2 abyway.
>Empire or Napoleon
Bugged as frick, with mods especially. Also, naval combat just meh.
>Medieval II
Same as rome2, vanilla just mediocre today. Mods, well, another story, but now i too spoiled with auto-healing units and simplified construction systems. Like, march 5+ turns back to nearest citadel for replenish troops? Or w8 80 turns until barrack get leveled to top tier, and another 60 for armor forge?
Frick, for 80 turns in nu-TW i can have some doomstacks. For 140 turns i literally unstoppable.
Also
>hey, there's your negative traits for goverment a rich city
>and there's another one for low taxes
Exactly. There's probably a word for it somewhere. How it's difficult to turn back, even when the newest entry in an interactive media franchise is objectively worse, the technical advancement and our immersion in trends make it difficult to play/operate without them.
This is something unique to the digital age. I can watch an old movie and see its merit, see how some movies are like theater or opera, while others are specifically foundational or novel, and even difficult films will be watchable. I can appreciate art though I am not an artist, I can appreciate art dissimilar to art I make, not just for the artist or creative spirit common, but for the art itself.
You could do this with retro games, but given that you have to play them instead of watching them, as if you were making the film with a non digital camera compared to a digital camera, they are simple not (as) accessible and conducive to play.
I say, this is why retro content and reviews, video essays (on everything from niche indie titles to old games, to scenes such as speedrunning, everything you cannot yourself participate in; the same phenomenon why social media influencers - too) are and were so popular and successful.
I don't really care about the money. I just don't want to work up the effort to try this series again only to get bored immediately. The only reason I got into the prior games is because the variety of each faction but they've all became too samey.
wow a lot of text with no point being made besides moronation
lmao, you don't even know what asiatic clicker means
I feel like I micro more in medieval two because you can exploit the frick out of the AI.
Actually I prefer the older games because you can micro more. Due to the animation system the later games use. In the old games you find yourself tracking all the individual units and their animations, like firing bows and moving backwards for example.
The Warhammer game battles feel more strategic and less tactical to me because the units are better at taking care of themselves clicking a single use ability isnt exactly taxing mechanically, especially when you can pause the game lol.
>asiatic clicker
>game slows down when you select a spell or even outright pauses depending on your settings
what the frick is your brain on?
>domination ranked
oh, yeah you are suffering from brain damage i forgot
>numbers are... LE BAD
This is your brain on Volound. What, you think previous games were programmed using magic?
This is your brain on leaded fuel; leading you to believe that game mechanics must resemble the data structures that they are built from, with no meaningful reference to the real world.
>Water is not wet, it gives +% to the wetness stat
I know why you think that, but imagine how much better both these games would be if instead of giving Dwarves underground travel to easily move through the mountains and designing underground maps to favor artillery units they just got +20% movespeed and damage in mountains? I think we can all agree that would be so much better. I'm personally so glad CA ditched this design philosophy after 1.
>I don't want racial modifiers to shine through in interesting ways, like unique maps that favor them.
>I just want bigger numbers.
How is it not better that the races get to do their thing using all gameplay systems rather than just through numbers?
Dwarfs don't have underground travel. They have an 'army stance' that can be selected regardless of the terrain they are in, which then teleports them a distance roughly equivalent to their full army movement range. The 'underway' seems to exist wherever they need it to and far from any mountains or Dwarf settlement.
The entire army stance system introduced in Rome 2 replaced the campaign map mechanics that existed before, seemingly because CA didn't want to have to design the maps to have strategic features beyond the most simple.
Even when it comes down to just numbers, CA has got incredibly lazy. Units used to have different attributes that made a significant gameplay difference. European units in Medieval 2 would fatigue faster and recover slower in arid regions. CA could have that in the newer games, except fatigue has been changed to the point it hardly matters: units hardly get tired running all over the place and then recover back to fresh in a minute of resting.
>>The 'underway' seems to exist wherever they need it to and far from any mountains or Dwarf settlement.
>The Underway, called the Ungdrin Ankor in the Dwarf tongue of Khazalid,is the name given to the vast, inter-continental highway of subterranean tunnels constructed by the Dwarfs that had at one time stretched the entirety of the World's Edge Mountains from the frozen peaks of the north to the lush jungles of the south
https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Underway
It is especially useful in the mountains because the density of hard barriers and falls off in usefulness in other areas. Just because dwarfs can use it anywhere doesn't mean it's as useful everywhere as it is in the mountains.
Interested in Warhammer Fantasy but I heard the Total War games are missing elements from previous titles in the series.
>Fantasy settings are so much cooler than regular humans tanks and guns
Plenty of tanks and guns in Warhammer Fantasy.
>I heard the Total War games are missing elements from previous titles in the series
Someone lied to you. WH3 includes everything from the previous entries with a far larger map, more QOL features and more variety
He's talking about the dumbed down tactics layer compared to previous TW titles such as Medieval 2 and even Shogun 2.
Pretty fun. I enjoyed it.
Unbalanced as frick, but you can have some fun by making some broken shit.
Also
>3d thread about wh3
really?
biggest strategy game right now, followed by HOI$ and EU$ (4)
What
said. CA-SEGA tapped into a gold vein with the combination of Total War and Warhammer Fantasy.
This has been a issue CA has suffered from even on the older titles. AI has become increasingly worse since Medieval 1 and they have a habit of removing features only to re-add them in future titles but worse. Then there's the 'TW Engine 3' they've been using since Empire which has caused a ton of problems. Rome II was their low point with that certainly, and probably was the reason Attila didn't do as well as it should have.
Generals and heroes are way too powerful and it turns into who has the action figure with the bigger numbers when it should be more about the entire army.
Help me out, I haven't played any of TW WH games, but I planned to. The question is: is it true that each successor has all the content from previous game therefore makes old iterations obsolete?
Like Warhammer 2 has all the content from Wh 1 etc.
But for some reason reviews over WH 3 are pretty bad. Why?
Should I play WH 2 then?
I just don't get it with their moronic dlc system.
They only have the content of the previous game if you own the previous game. To play Mortal Empires (combination of both maps) in WH2 you need WH1, and to play wood-elves on mortal empires you would need the DLC for WH1, even though you boot through WH2.
WH3 is a bit better, since you have access to the combined map without owning any other game, BUT to play any faction outside of the ones included in WH3, you would need the game that they come from. If you want to play Empire for instance, you would need WH1, even if you are playing WH3. If you want tomb kings you would not only need WH2, but also their DLC.
WH3 is really buggy and the factions that are unique to it are rather boring, either being mostly invented for the game, or being another flavour of demon. The wholy new systems are a mixed bag as well.
If you want to play WH1 or WH2 factions, then buy them, simple as. If you don't know what you are interested in, then WH1 has the most "standard" factions that you probably won't hate.
Not if you don't own it. Immortal Empires only comes with the WH3 races if you don't own anything else. https://www.totalwar.com/blog/tww3_immortalempires_240_faq/
I am going to wait until they release something like TW WH complete experience then, like IO did with hitman games.
Also, what's with the bugs in WH3?
they just had a sale where I picked up a bunch of dlcs for next to nothing. wouldn't recommend buying almost any of them (or the games for that matter) at full price
I actually was thinking of getting 3 this sale with the chorfs, but after seeing how shit the chorfs look I'm going to hold out until it's even cheaper during the summer or christmas sale.
Some personal issues that I didn't experience before.
Charging was fricked, cav or other things that should have an impact when charging at times just doesn't , or pathing chooses to charge into friendly units since that is technically the middle of the enemy formation (This also messes with their collision and mass, they just clump up).
Counter-charging is strange as well. Peasants with sharpened sticks at times can get a charge bonus against your heavily armoured lancers for no discernible reason. Charging wasn't perfect before but it's gotten more rather than less broken.
Mass and the ease of dissengagement is strange and can frick you real bad when it seemed tuned for the factions present before.
Flying units at times just don't want to path, or don't want to change what they are doing, or don't know if they are flying or grounded.
It hard-crashes intermitently, which never happened for me with WH2.
There are more, but those are rather apparent. The three first ones mean that you have a really bad time as some factions that are based around charging, where they were fine before.
They fixed the bug with charge reflect applying on counter charges back in april 2022, update 1.1.0. Unit behaviour has improved significantly since launch but it sounds like you didn't play the game for at least a year.
>Didn't play for a year
Pretty much. Burned out on WH leading up to 3 and haven't played much after launch.
Bought it last night and the prologue bugged out for me. Nice fricking game.
Warhammer is successful because it has the one thing the previous TW titles never had: Faction variety.
No it doesn't. It has a vast number of art assets, but under the hood they are functionally identical. They're reliant on slight changes to stats for any differentiation, and it doesn't matter any way because the game is devoid of tactics and strategy beyond pushing those stats up.
Suuure it does. The vampire Counts alone are very different from any faction from previous games by way of having no ranged units but having many flying units.
I mean, you can sputter all you want about how that might not meet your arbitrary threshold of being different enough but until you can name a single faction that has at least that big of a difference then my point stands.
No that actually is an example that meets my threshold. I do not include spells or the archer unit because of the restrictions that are in place for them. The problem is it's the example that is repeatedly cited, because it is the exception rather than the rule.
But Undead, Dwarfs, Humans, Elves, Greenskins; all have barely any racial distinction. They all tire just as quickly doing the same things: Dwarfs don't run as fast, but they run as long as an Elf can, which is ridiculous. Undead shouldn't tire at all, or feel tired all the time no matter what, but are the same as if they were alive. Guns cost as much stamina to shoot as bows, which is very similar to what fighting in melee does. That did not used to be the case in Total War.
WH1 added the most variety, but everything has gotten very samey since then. Vampire Coast is basically Vampire Counts without flying units and extra ranged. As opposed to how radically different Vampire Counts were before they were added.
Meanwhile in Shogun 2 you can just make a line of Portugesemanii backed up with Horsemanii and Archermanii then go file your taxes while the game wins itself for you
I tried it out over the free weekend a bit ago. The units felt extremely unresponsive, and often got stuck on enemies or even just "forgot" their order mid-move. Cycle-charging and shift-queing commands was frustrating as shit, if not functionally impossible. At first I thought it was just a skill issue on my end, or I was just misrembering how TW worked since I hadnt played it in a while, and stuff like units getting physically stuck IS technically part of the mechanics.
So just to be sure, I booted up TWW2 for a direct comparison, and holy frick its a difference of night and day in regards to responsivity. They changed something in TWW3s unit programming that completely fricks how movement, especially disengaging from combat and issuing a string of commands. So I uninstalled that shit and went back to TWW2/1.
>Fantasy settings are so much cooler than
Can be.
>Thoughts on this game?
TCA got millions in Warhammer bucks and is still running their game on an antiquated engine.
Shielded units can't even walk backwards with their shields up to conduct fighting retreats.
The rats in 2 were the only time I felt I was getting my money's worth in a Total War game and I've been playing it since Rome.
What about the tomb kings?
It's crazy going back and seeing how basic everything is. The best thing TW3 brought to the table is the more realistic physics. Nothing is worse than actually constructing a tactic and seeing your cavalry literally bounce off of sword infantry. The only thing I think has suffered is the scope. In Attila you and the enemy approach each other in a staged battle, it actually takes time to see the enemy and battles are decisive. In TW3 they aren't as much decisive as totally insignificant or game ending.
That's where aesthetically TW games peaked in Shogun 2.
AAA graphics and visuals, in the service of FFF gameplay, design and balance
The entire budget of this studio goes to trailers/advertising and graphics, and they can't hire one single competent guy to go through the stats of units and make sure this shit is balanced/fun to play.
Disagree. It's much cooler to see samurai clashing in lethal combat than to say giant plastic dragon being mashed into giant plastic dinosaur
i wish they made fantasy total war but not warhammer or other popular universe. i want something new to explore
DnD total war?
I'm not the biggest fan of Wizards of the Coast or Faerune, but it's as generic as fantasy gets (compared to Warhammer or Elder Scrolls), and it's pretty popular.
Conventional Western High Fantasy: Total War
>DnD total war?
>I'm not the biggest fan of Wizards of the Coast
Could just base it on OD&D.
Best to set it before WoW.
Pathfinder? Basically D&D since it is more or less 3.5e with modifications, but it's its own thing not asociated with WotC. Pazio isn't exactly great, but they are better than wizards.
Is pathfinder still steampunk shit? That's so incredibly out of style now I can't imagine it ever happening.
Pathfinder was never steampunk. You must have played some weird settings if that's the case. I haven't played in the default setting to be fair, but I haven't found any mention of anything steampunk in any of my books, and the only thing that seems out of place for high-fantasy are some of the firearms https://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment/weapons/firearms/, and most of them are from books that are for playing pathfinder in a modern setting. Why you would want to do that is beyond me.
Warhammer is way more steampunk than Pathfinder.
I don't know how they got the idea that it's a steampunk setting, but there is some fairly out there stuff. Numeria (or the technic league) have some very high tech shit compared to other places, for probably the most obvious example. Pretty easily ignored though.
Why would you want generic fantasy? There is a reason why no setting (including the D&D ones once you start to look at them) is just:
>generic human kingdom
>generic dwarf kingdom
>generic elf kingdom,
Ect, unless it's parodying fantasy.
Well one thing Warhammer has going for it is that there's more oomph to the races, so to speak. Other fantasy setting are quite a bit more subdued and sensible.
Warhammer does this while playing these things straight, not some modern subversive setting or some author's haphazard mix of what they think is realism mixed with fantasy tropes.
Plus it's a setting where everything matters. The heroes, the soldiers, the cannons, the demons, the zombies, all of it. What use are the 99.9% of mere mortals of the Forgotten Realms or Golarion when hell invades? Not much. Arcanum had the same problem with things skewed in the opposite direction in favor of technology while 40k still has demons and orks be threats even when everyone has guns and space ships.
Total Warcraft?
Admit it /vst he was right!
Warhammer is reddit and warhammer 40k is double reddit