>throughout series get enjoyment out of mastering bosses and memorizing movesets, defeating them gives feeling of triumph
>for elden ring make bosses annoying and unreadable requiring me to hail mary half the time, feel nothing when defeating them except relief that i dont have to deal with the annoying butthole anymore
what did they mean by this?
The problem is you, not the bosses.
Other people have no issue mastering fights. Including beating entire game at rl1 +0 weapons, on NG+7, without getting hit a single time.
>Other people have no issue mastering fights
Yeah they did. It's called hundreds of attempts. The Elden Ring bosses relied on gimmicks and were poorly balanced, including too many gank fights. All very beatable, but in no way as satisfying as the balanced bosses of DS3 (about the only good thing about that game).
I've done RL1 in all these games and elden ring wasn't nearly as bad as DS2 or DS3
This is all true but people will criticize you because their ego is tied to feeling like they are good at these games.
It feels like from is very slowly slipping, I'd rather they just moved on from souls at this point and did something different with the way things are going.
My reflexes are like 70% worse as an oldfrick, if you can't do these bosses under 20 or 30 attempts you should probably try mobile games
>oldfrick
t. 24 years old
greys in the hair
What part of
>I've beaten the game at rl1
Do you not understand?
Difficulty isn't the problem you fricking moron, what a pathetic attempt to divert from the game's flaws.
I am not personally criticizing you and I like these games too, there's no need to be so defensive and jump to some lol filtered cope so you can ignore my arguments.
i have similar numbers to yours (add to Tree Sentinel, remove from Godrick, add to CK, remove from Rennala) and I fricking despide ER boss design
>Other people have no issue mastering fights
If there's one common thread across every criticism I read of ER, it's that the bosses are just a chore.
sorry eldentroony, he's right.
>Souls bosses are simplistic, predictable and boring, if you finished one game you'll have no problems in all others, feel nothing after bonking them on the head because they don't pose any threat anymore
>Elden Ring makes bosses both actually aggressive and more reactive than before so not everything is solved by rollspamming through the attacks and then rolling-back-2-times-to-heal tactic, feel like you're learning something new and improving every time you face the bosses
They meant that they found a way to recreate that initial Souls experience when things seemed way harder than they actually are simply by countering the most popular play style: rolling in the mud like a prick.
>Elden Ring makes bosses both actually aggressive and more reactive than before
Elden ring bosses are reading your controller inputs anon, nothing more.
It's exactly like how CPU plays in higher difficulties in fighting game. They just read your input and adjust accordingly.
Yeah no shit, that's how enemy AI reacts to the player. As opposed to just mindlessly executing "if player in range use attack 1 then 2" you see in other souls games.
>Elden ring bosses are reading your controller inputs anon
Oh god this cope still exist? There isn't any input reading outside of when you take a sippy or cast a spell and even those only happen on a handful of enemies.
>There isn't any input reading
Yeah that's why Godskins patter around for 20-30 seconds doing nothing, or Misbegotten will stand there and then immediately start sprinting into range the second you input literally anything at all.
you must be mentally challenged if you didn't notice
sekiro also got it but its less common
And yet I can beat them easily why you suck. How does that make you feel, moron.
Because the game became less 'rpg' and more action. You'll notice in dark souls 1 and 2 wearing heavy armor and being tanky with a shield was still relatively viable as a playstyle. They had difficulty in managing your stamina and equipment load rather than just being a naked frick who pumps vigor and i-frames through everything.
Dark Souls 2 was the best souls game and anybody who claims otherwise is actually trolling. It's no contest, and you know I'm not a bot or ESL because I have a dogshit contrarian opinion against what all the funny youtubers think.
DS2 was great, aside from its doormat bosses. They were on the other side of the spectrum and just too easy.
>DaS2>
opinion discarded
>You'll notice in dark souls 1 and 2 wearing heavy armor and being tanky with a shield was still relatively viable as a playstyle
you can wear full bull goat and use the fingerprint shield on ER, then slap bloodhound step on your weapon (it fits on all of them)
there, you are a tank that can ninja flip like pre-patch DaS1
But being a fatrolling tank is infinitely more viable in ER than it was in DS1 and 2. Like actually viable and strong, not making a compromise with the game's system that nudges you towards fast rolling playstyle.
>>for elden ring make bosses annoying and unreadable requiring me to hail mary half the time
Have you tried not panic rolling like a b***h with every wind-up attack?
Shut the frick up.
How could you say something so controversial yet so true?
DS2 chads rise up.
ER is the only post BB game that allows you to go full havel. Seriously pick up a great shield, slap barricade on it and pick your choice of poking weapon it, it was the most fun I had in a souls game I had since ds1 and 2, larping as a big dick guard with a greatshield + halberd combination.
>older Souls games have bosses with characteristic move sets that make sense for who and what the boss is
>this means move sets generally have weaknesses or even entire blind spots that can be spotted and exploited, leading to a feeling of mastery once you do
>bosses generally feel flavorful and distinct, even if not all of them are particularly difficult on any given run
And then DS3 and ER bosses all feel the same because it NEEDS to be fast, so every boss NEEDS a huge gap closer, an input reading evade and heal punish, a huge hopback, a quick follow up, a very fast swing in their back arc and dead angle, hilariously delayed heavies to bait rolls, and roll-catching double hit attacks. Older games felt like I was fighting monsters in a magical world, monsters that made sense in their own context. New games feel like I'm playing against a game designer's checklist. Any immersion I could've felt is instantly shattered when the lanky cancer patient lifts his giant weapon with one hand, and walks around like that for several seconds in order to bait out rolls. In that moment I don't see a monster in a setting, I see a game designer desperately trying to compensate for bad decisions made in the past.
Going all in on endless free roll spam was unironically the biggest mistake From has ever made, and from DS2 on it has tainted every game they made in the genre, as well as every "soulslike" offshoot, with its moronation. It's so powerful as to warp every game around its existence, and yet they refuse to get rid of or at least rework it.
>older Souls games have bosses with characteristic move sets that make sense for who and what the boss is
>this means move sets generally have weaknesses or even entire blind spots that can be spotted and exploited, leading to a feeling of mastery once you do
>bosses generally feel flavorful and distinct, even if not all of them are particularly difficult on any given run
Funny, you just described ER perfectly. You are utterly blind if you can't see patterns in designs of older Souls games.
ER has gone too far in wanting to make bosses "difficult". Every boss has a couple unique moves, sure, but they generally all do the same things which is very transparently only there to make up for rolling being completely broken. The silly delayed swings that make no sense except to throw off the player, the overblown input reading that requires you to exploit the way they read your inputs, the lingering hitboxes/delayed damage bursts that only exist to roll-catch players, the ubiquitous fast gap closer/projectile that you can reliably trigger by just going for your flask. Much of this is so overtly technical that it doesn't feel like you found a blind spot, but like you're exploiting game mechanics.
The veil between game mechanics and flavor has gotten too thin. I don't buy these bosses as elements of their world anymore, when they so transparently do so many things that are designed to frick with me, the player, and not to defeat the player character. The illusion crumbles, immersion falls away, and all I see is a game designer trying to pull one over on me.
this man speaks the truth, whether you like it or not
>I don't buy these bosses as elements of their world anymore
That is entirely your problem. It's the Monster Hunter syndrome, you've been playing these games for so long you're metagaming. I could say the same about Dark Souls 1: the bosses are so blatantly going through the motions they've programmed to do, their 2-3 attacks that have extremely obvious triggers mostly associated with player's position relative to them, that it takes you out of immersion immediately and standing at a certain spot of the enemy feels like you're exploiting the scripting. Some bosses don't even feel like they're attacking you, just doing their own thing like target dummies.
Also why are you acting like roll-catching or reacting to healing wasn't in other Souls games? You really never noticed it before? Or that in DS1 and 2 where estus healing makes you stop on the spot most attack animations chain faster than your healing animation?
you're confusing the existence of these mechanics in any capacity in the older games as the same as the major overuse and design around making combat annoyingly gamey in ER
You're confusing three webms of like two enemies on day one patch with "major overuse".
>annoyingly gamey
What's more gamey than a boss who misses half of its attacks because you stand where devs didn't expect you to stand? I find enemies that exploit your weakness and make you create windows of opportunity yourself instead of giving them to you more immersive.
You're supposed to be immersed in take in the emotion of the moment. Not be le prepare to died
Of course, and you are in Elden Ring just as much as in any other Souls game. The metagaming is entirely in the player's head. When you see Godfrey go primal and ditch his axe attacks for massive grabs he charges at you with, only a certain type of person goes "ugh another circle strafe redirect" instead of "SHIT JUST GOT REAL".
No i thinik im getting prepared to died and after 200 deaths im angry and frustrated
>When you see Godfrey go primal and ditch his axe attacks for massive grabs he charges at you with, only a certain type of person goes "ugh another circle strafe redirect" instead of "SHIT JUST GOT REAL"
I mostly thought "Who?" when his name changed, because after 200 hours of game I had entirely forgotten about the random nobody that was mentioned once during the intro powerpoint and then never again.
That entire "reveal" is so weird to me. It feels like they cut an entire plot line out of the game, but then couldn't alter the fight anymore, so they left the big final twist in, except now it has no context and is just vaguely confusing.
You play a Souls game without paying attention to the characters, worldbuilding and NPCs spelling out to you directly plot-related things and then complain about lack of immersion? Seems like you're the one who refuses to be immersed. It's okay, a decade is enough to burn out on Souls games and not care about following the inner structure of a new one.
I would be thrilled for someone to tell me where Hoarah Loux came up so often that the twist makes sense and lands. Because I can't remember reading or hearing that name a single time throughout the game.
Early in the game I thought Nepheli's quest would lead into the guy announced during the intro, but then she just moped in the basement until I gave her a bird, and eventually became the lady of Limgrave for no adequately explained reason. Which, by the way, also feels like a cut plot. If she were at least related to Hoarah, who is Godfrey, then there'd be an argument of her belonging to a noble line, at which point it would make sense for Kenneth to put her on the throne, but none of that is ever brought up.
He's literally in the intro cinematic.
Yeah, that's what I said. And how or why does it matter? He's just a name. A name means nothing without context. How does this guy actually being another guy, who means nothing to you beyond vague recollection, warrant a big cutscene frame transition twist and announcement? That's the kind of treatment you give a big story reveal. Like, for instance, if the game had bothered to build up this Hoarah Loux all throughout, making sure you know that he's a big deal who mysteriously disappeared or something, and then hit you with the transition at the end, it would actually mean something. But that never happens. He gets name dropped in the first 30 seconds, and that's it.
It's not a secret though? The relation between the two is obvious. It's just a name like Renna or Margitt.
>It's not a secret though? The relation between the two is obvious
Is it? What is their relation? Is "Loux" a family name or a title? Are they father and daughter? Is he her grandfather? Distant relative? Did she just take the name to honor him, or is it a name with cultural significance, bestowed on or taken by someone for some particular reason? Do they just belong to the Loux tribe of the "badlands" and that's as far as it goes? Does she want to find him? Did she follow him to the lands between? Is there a single scrap of worldbuilding or characterization connecting these two beyond them having the same name (if it is a name at all)?
You have a character mentioned in the intro, implying he's important. You have another character with a similar name in the game. And the game never bothers to connect the two at all, not even a little. Hell, it doesn't even do the whole "storytelling by implication" thing. Nothing at all connects these two.
I expected a plot where Nepheli eventually tells you that she came to these lands to find her father/ancestor, who she was told left and disappeared. Maybe she suspects that he was a tarnished. Maybe it's even something Ofnir is hiding from her, as it would make her a legitimate heir, whatever that might entail. Maybe her story would then have you meeting her at several points to which she "tracked" Hoarah Loux by following rumors and stories of his exploits, and eventually you piece together that all these places also relate to Godfrey in some way. And then maybe Nepheli would even be a summon for his fight, facing him in battle alongside you and getting some special dialogue during his second face when he sheds his guise of lord and becomes the man once more. And that would then naturally lead into her becoming the Lady of Limgrave.
But none of that happened. Hoarah Loux is just some guy who is never brought up again. Nepheli Loux has some entirely unrelated shit going on that tangentially involves Ofnir.
Literally none of that matters? Are you moronic?
then the reveal of Horah Loux doesn't matter either. it's just spectacle for spectacle's sake without trying to earn it
If Godfrey being Hoarah Loux was a "reveal" at that stage then you are illiterate.
Then why have the fricking twist showcased with a cutscene like this in the first place if it doesn't matter? Why have a character with the same name if it doesn't matter? It's like having a story with a masked man. The only reason for there to be someone wearing a mask in a story is because the eventual reveal is going to be an interesting wrinkle. It's just a puzzling inclusion if the mask comes off and it's some random butthole nobody's ever seen.
The real answer is that it's just a vestige of a plot that was cut for time. Like the whole nonsense with Patches' castanets, or like how some plot lines released unfinished until a sloppy ending got patched in.
It's not a twist? How the frick do you get all the way to Leyndell and not know Godfrey was Hoarah Loux?
All Tarnished are ancestors of Demigods moron. Hoarah Loux is Godfrey original name
all true
Zaki autism storytelling was taken too far this time. Melina is probably the worst example of this. She is supposed to be players companion and the poster girl but has a whooping 5 minutes worth of dialogue in a 80 hour game. I was completely baffled by her sacrifice scene. Like, that was it? Was I supposed to feel sad?
dont worry every soul game get more cutscenes and boring shit
or you can play final fantasy directly if you like so much dialogue and cutscenes
Hoarah Loux isn't a big deal, he's just a warrior, that's the point. The game took time to hype up Godfrey and as you play you discover that the first Elden Lord was a mighty warrior who ended up losing grace at his peak after no equal enemy remained to match him and was banished. Meanwhile one the named Tarnished in the intro is suspiciously missing throughout the whole game, but his daughter is around and is apparently adopted by another tarnished. Learning the story of Godfrey taking a legion of warriors with him outside of the Lands Between and you yourself being of "warrior's blood" it doesn't really take too long to put two and two together. I didn't think it was a big reveal but it's a neat one nonetheless, makes it all the better that his grace points at you just like yours at him.
It's cause they did; Godfrey has cut content indicating he might have had a mentor-esque role to the Tarnished at one point in development
you shouldn't argue by going
>nuh uh, you actually only saw webms, your experience of the game wasn't real, unlike mine
>bro I swear I experienced it!
>nobody ever records evidence and just uses the same three webms
if theres webms of it already , why make new ones?
To not be an obvious falseflagger subscribed to a narrative you have no experience with first-hand.
i wasnt claiming anything, i just find it stupid to make webms of stuff thats already in webms
i dont want to waste time making webm of shit that already exists
also how could i prove you this one is mine for example? when i already posted it when it happened its mine i'm just posting it for the sake of posting
i have 0 reason to record all of my gameplay of games i'm enjoying just to grab 30 seconds every now and then to prove an argument against anonymous people on Ganker.
>exploit your weakness
the only "weakness" they are exploiting is my limited stamina with their infinite string of attacks, this one really breaks the immersion and i start to think about iframing my shit through the bosses instead rolling out of the way.
>What's more gamey than a boss who misses half of its attacks because you stand where devs didn't expect you to stand?
you're right the player shouldn't be rewarded for thinking cleverly it'd be much better if this boss had a 0 frame delay instahit attack anytime you get close to that area, we wouldn't want you to actually be able to play the game
What do you suppose requires more clever thinking, emptying your stamina bar into an enemy who isn't even aware of you, or fighting against an opponent who is ready to react to all your tricks and forces you to improvise?
>using a DLC spell on one of the very first bosses in the game
what a disingenuous Black person you are
He's at least on NG+, but it's still a disingenuous argument.
You're not answering my question. It wasn't about Gargoyles but in general. What's clever about fighting bosses that are objectively dumber?
>you've been playing these games for so long you're metagaming
It's not even that. I can go back and replay DS1, and at no point will something like "I gotta use spells with delayed projectiles against this boss or it will read my cast and immediately hop sideways" or "come the frick on, just bring that weapon down you butthole, I'm not even rolling" pop into my head, because while these mechanics existed, they were never even near as ubiquitous or transparent. I'll be fully immersed the entire time and barely even think about their moves in terms of game terms like heal punish or roll catch. At no point in the older games was I so aware of the boss immediately whipping out a projectile the second I hit my estus button. Because it didn't happen as often and as obviously
I'll honestly take an Asylum Demon, who might be an absolute pushover, but at least moves and acts like the big lumbering fatso he is, over half the overloaded and gamey bosses in ER that all do the same thing in a desperate attempt to get a death off you.
>I'll be fully immersed the entire time and barely even think about their moves in terms of game terms like heal punish or roll catch
And? Is this supposed to mean anything? If you want personal stories, first time I played ER I wasn't even aware people had issues with enemies curbstomping them when they healed or when they dodged projectiles, it's just normal enemy behavior. I can go back and replay ER and not think about these things and still be fully immersed. You are complaining about things on the level of "In Izalith I need to put on the ring I got from the boss to negate the lava damage" or "Oh come the frick on, I should've poised through that attack", this is actually nothing. Is your immersion implying no thoughts head empty? No knowledge of the game entering it at any point?
>overloaded and gamey bosses in ER that all do the same thing
This makes no sense. Asylum Demon in ER acts same way it acted in DS1. Enemies in ER act according to their type and size, you can't honestly tell me Astel is exactly the same enemy as Godrick or Fire Giant. If you equate the number of different moves an enemy can perform with them being "gamey" I don't even know what to say, seems like you just prefer harmless target dummies that pose no threats.
>If you want personal stories
I don't want a personal story, I want a game that doesn't try so hard to be difficult that it stops bothering with feeling like the adventure it is supposed to be. Immersion happens when events in the game flow naturally and in a sense allow you to stop thinking of it as a game. When something that was clearly put there by a game designer trying too hard crops up, it's very obvious and shatters that illusion. And ER is sadly filled with it to excess. I can handle the occasional enemy reading inputs if it's supposed to be this lithe assassin type or whatever, but when everyone above overworld chaff immediately does the same side hop on cast, it's too transparent.
Same for every boss having a projectile or dash specifically to punish heals. Same for the delayed swings. And indeed same for other things, like how the game pulls the "loot/chest/enemy with its back turned in plain view through a doorway, second enemy tucked away in a blind spot, scripted to perform some flailing combo/backstab the second you enter"-trick way too often, to the point where it stops being a cute ambush set by cunning enemies, and starts being this very obvious ploy by devs buying into their own hype and trying to artificially inflate that death counter. And also kind of same for poise, where it's been nerfed in this game to a point where you need to reach a fairly respectable value to even be able to poise through a single light attack, and not get staggered by a naked zombie with a stick.
It's almost on the level of ludonarrative dissonance, to use a homosexual term for it. The game becomes too obviously a game and compromises the integrity of its world and narrative in the process.
>I want a game that doesn't try so hard to be difficult that it stops bothering with feeling like the adventure it is supposed to be.
No Dark Souls does this, and in my opinion Elden Ring is one of the best at "feeling like an adventure. One of my favorite times playing any Dark Souls game, not just ER was after Leyndell capital, and I'd reveal a new are on the map. It's hard to describe but that feeling of opening my map to look at a newly revealed area, then laughing to myself and exclaiming "How fricking big is this game." is pretty wonderful. And considering a lot of my friends mentioned that same feeling, and that same sentiment is on a million streamers highlight reels, Elden Ring seems like it did a pretty good job at that.
Oh, and before you claim my build was busted or some shit and that's why I didn't find it difficult, I unga Bunga's my way through the game dual wielding great hammers.
>Immersion happens when events in the game flow naturally and in a sense allow you to stop thinking of it as a game.
But that applies the least to Dark Souls 1 which is full of "use this thing we've prepared for you beforehand in this area/on this enemy". You're being moronic on purpose right now. The fact that you somehow "notice" gameplay designs in one game but pretend to be completely oblivious to them in another just tells me you're being disingenuous. I ask you again, does these anecdotes of you being aware how video games are made supposed to mean anything? You're still telling me your personal stories like I supposed to care.
based
The boss design in ER and to some extent DS3 is entirely unimmersive. It feels like the devs and designers are trying to squeeze more attempts out of you artificially
This, especially with bosses like Malenia. Just autistically slow-walking and shuffling around, not doing jack fricking shit until you enter the invisible perimeter around her. I hate when ER bosses have zero aggression like this and just stand around waiting for you to do something for them to punish. I end up fighting bosses like this by sprinting in and out, grazing their invisible perimeter trying to trigger them to actually DO SOMETHING so that I have an entry.
Pot calling the kettle black
when the kettle has a move like waterfowl that insta-gibs you if it gets triggered at point-blank range, then yeah, I am going to call the kettle a goddamn Black person
Everything you’ve described has been in these games since Bloodborne. I know every single one of you homosexuals that complains about boss difficultly are just nostalgia Black folk. You’ll never get DS1 back you’re never getting that fricking game again and From has no interest is making that game. Please have a nice day I’m so fricking sick of this these thread’s being astroturfed by losers like you who can’t just fricking learn to play a fricking video game.
>Fromsoft are washed up has beens
Tell us something we don't know
have a nice day you bootlicking homosexual
>Everything you’ve described has been in these games since Bloodborne.
Yep, that's the topic being discussed.
>New games feel like I'm playing against a game designer's checklist.
i pretty much call Elden Ring bosses an exercise in Simon Says for this. literally "is it my turn to play the game now? oh no i tried to attack at the wrong time so i lose a bunch of health now because bosses can just infinitely chain any attack into any other attack" zzzzzz
this is one of the most notoriously bad games of all time but this guy beat it in 6 hours without dying so i guess everyone else was wrong. when are you going to git gud and play Vampire Rain? it's not bad, you're just bad at it.
Yeah, it's less engaging when it stretches the "dance" between player and boss to that point.
>one of the most notoriously bad games of all time
Oh, but Elden Ring is one of the notoriously good games of modern times. By your own logic it really is your problem.
What are you talking about? Elden Ring is the first game in the series to shirk the concept of turns in combat. 1,2, and 3 are all about patiently waiting out attack combos and dodging/blocking until you can punish the combo, Elden Ring is all about enemy attack combos having followups to punish this type of play, instead including openings during long windups to encourage you to weave attacks in the middle of the enemies' own attacks.
>including openings during long windups
you mean the long windups that the bosses all hold infinitely until the milisecond you push a button and leave an opening? those windups?
> 1,2, and 3 are all about patiently waiting out attack combos and dodging/blocking until you can punish the combo
For you
>"is it my turn to play the game now?
I was playing recently and remembered these enemies existed. As far as I can tell, there's literally NOTHING you can do once they start up their erratic, spastic 10 hit combo. You either just run away and wait for them to finish, or maybe you have a big enough weapon to hyper armor through their bullshit.
Well technically you can unga bunga jump attack and try to rng stun them which is basically all this game is
which again is the problem, all bosses rely on the same 3-4 tricks and you're basically pigeonholed into using the same 3-4 tricks. it's pretty lame.
it'd be fine if there was more in the way of movement and defensive options. like rollspam should be the only option for big armored dudes or whatever but using any kind of light weapon in this game is just gimping yourself, there's no reason not to use anything except for a big 2-hander.
Best combo is power stancing something with bleed like the great star. I beat 90% of the game sl1 +0 with great star jump attack spam. I actually got summoned for selia crystal tunnel from some noob that got trapped and i cleared the whole thing for him
>there's literally NOTHING you can do once they start up their erratic, spastic 10 hit combo.
>names two things you can do
>neglects to mention they have downtime after these attacks so long you can kill them while they're malfunctioning
So these are the brainlets who complain about the game huh?
Willfully missing the point. I was responding to the "is it my turn yet?" idea, and these enemies are a perfect example of it.
Read
> I was responding to the "is it my turn yet?" idea, and these enemies are a perfect example of it.
That attack pattern mimics 1:1 skeletons in Dark Souls, except you can actually ecploit a weakness in their pattern. You are just outing yourself as a shitter who Haveltanked through DS1
Marionette soldiers are reskinned ds1 skeletons?
They aren't reskinned, it's just a similar attack where both charge it and start a quick plunging attack covering their whole body. You can block or run, or move sideways, not attack, but the payoff is that they collapse on the floor as easy targets.
How can anybody struggle with marionettes though, that's beyond me
I've never struggled with them, they're just annoying as frick because if you don't oneshot them they explode into a 10 seconds spergout that inflicts bleed and you just have to step back and stare until they calm down. I feel like most people probably got deleted by the first marionette they found if they went in totally blind, I certainly wasn't expecting "AJFJGKTKEKJCLFLEKRGKVMXLMCIEKTNGIFRJFCF *bleed*" after I smacked the fricking thing with my Lordsworn's Straight Sword
I think I've literally asked that very question in my head playing elden ring on several occasions before the idea was ever associated with elden ring in my head.
So what do you want, always attack and never go on the defensive? That's not how Souls game work. From DeS on some otherwise weak enemies had a long strings of attacks that would mince you if you're not careful, good example would be the infamous torch or broken sword hollows from DS1.
There's no "10 hit combo". There's a spinning multi attack that lasts a bunch of seconds and leaves them vulnerable on the ground, just like skeleton spinning thrust in Dark Souls
Git gud
Nobody asked VPN troony
>Filtered by a fricking mob
lmao
Stop samegayging VPN troony
>You either just run away and wait for them to finish, or maybe you have a big enough weapon to hyper armor through their bullshit.
So you found a solution
If it reads inputs do the great streamers push fake out buttons?
>I see a game designer desperately trying to compensate for bad decisions made in the past.
This really is the crux of the problem for From. They are in an arms race with their own moronic design, and instead of dialling the strength iframes back to older games, they've now tripled down on it and made a shit action game that still has too many iframes.
I think the powercreep has made the games less fun. An enemy like this guy would have been an absolute ass-clencher with DS1 mechanics but in ER he's just a trash mob because the player is so powerful.
Unfortunately From will never go back to the old style because the post-Bloodborne games have sold 5x the amount.
If people can beat bosses without being hit, the problem lies with the player, not the bosses.
autistic people will beat any game no damage blindfolded with enough time.
They're not unreadable that is just a pure skill issue. They did exactly what was needed to end the tedium of the souls bosses being the same shit for 3 games. By giving them strange pauses and more combos. All these things CAN be read but obviously takes more brain power than before. Which you clearly lack. I will admit however that the later 30 to 40% of the game is garbage where everything is just a gank fest of two bosses. The main unique bosses however are great.
>boss is easy to read and beat fast
>"wtf why did they casualize dark souls"
>boss is hard to read and requires a lot of tries
>"uh the boss is badly designed and just requires muscle memory"
i have yet to play ER but it looks like the same shit.
"oh shit the big knight with a sword swinging non-stop! its so hard bros!"
thats it? is there any reason to expect something different?
t.beat ds1,2,3
riding torrent around the pretty world is cool. not knowing how big it is and how you'll keep finding stuff is a really neat first time experience. if you care purely about the gameplay, then yeah it's not different other than the addition of jumping on a button rather than sprint plus jump, an invisible stagger bar, and you can ride a horse for some bosses.
That's the Game of Thrones experience
Remember when this serious used to be about conqkuering the enemies and bosses with your intellect and not just pressing the roll button at the right time?
i dont remember such thing
well it was
where?
bed of chaos?
dragon god?
the first 2 shit bosses of the first 2 games?
any boss, i dont remember hugging the boss waiting to clip through his attack in DS1, you probably could in some cases but it wasnt the sole strategy.
nameless king, for example, visuals and atmosphere is great and all but hugging him while clipping through his spear was lame.
>i dont remember hugging the boss waiting to clip through his attack in DS1
i do, but i played the game more than once becaused i liked it and didn't played it for internet Ganker points
i beat it at least 4 times, which boss you were iframing? maybe Artorias, the boss that fricked the series with a bunch of boring knight bosses.
>which boss you were iframing?
all? i dont remember any boss i didn't iframe most of his attacks
i only remember outrunning some manus magic shit
Artorias fricked the games with an overabundance of flippy-dashy anime bosses that put stylish cutscene attacks over interactivity
DS1 is THE game where sticking your face into the enemy's crotch and iframing through attacks is the most optimal strat.
it feels different, the webm looks like you just got out of the way, you arent clipping through nameless king spear or invincible inside demons prince nuke.
and in current souls, taurus would do 2-3 more hits to frick you up.
no i dont
your own fault
souls games get worse with each one they release
Skill issue
I never liked souls bosses. The most fun I had with them was back in DS1 days where I just sucked ass and tried figuring out cheese strat for each of them, which in itself felt like a puzzle to solve and probably close to what Miyazaki intended. Memorizing attack pattern trial and error is honestly just not fun. Such a shame the series devolved so much
If you actually have to memorise their movesets then you're not good at the game. In real life you have to anticipate what your opponent is doing
Seems like people seething about ER bosses are dogshit.
Seems to be the case
I beat the game at rl1, the bosses are just sloppily designed, the arms race between player skill and the developers has stretched the game mechanics too thin.
Bosses don't fit the player toolset the same way they used to and are designed to be more and more special to compensate for player skill and adaptation.
seems you are a blind fanboy
It's just souls veterans have very fragile ego. Taking damage in a boss fight means the fight is unfair because they have experience in Souls games and that has NEVER happened before. I hope FROM continues bullying them until they either become humble again and start learning the game properly, or get filtered forever. I have high hopes for the DLC in this regard since expansions are always harder than the base game.
can't wait for a boss with 5 hp bars with 5 cutscenes between each one and input reading
Getting older and worse at videogames is nothing to be ashamed of, my friend. Denial, however, is something to be ashamed of
I played Elden Ring, finshed it and didnt feel anything. Tried Sands of Aura recently and loved it. I think ER traded a ton of inconveniences for mechanical depth, thinking the only thing people wanted out of a Souls like was bosses hard only for being hard and nonsensical narrative, meaning level design, pacing and immersion are forgotten about. ER had its moment but there was so much inconsequential bloat that feels lile it was only put in there to fill a big empty world and lean on fast travel to get around. Instead of, say, duneskipper.
tough but fair
i quit at this boss forever ago and beat elden ring later
puzzle boss, pick your strategy and win instead of roll roll roll
>pick your strategy
What are the choices?
for me,
>use the gay shield magic and tank everything
>run to that weird spot and use the bow
>roll roll roll attack roll attack
at least 3, you can still roll roll roll but there is more.
thats not picking strategy
thats your build choice
those are versatile enough almost all builds can use and you cant really replicate it on other bosses.
>you cant really replicate it on other bosses.
Sure you can, you can tank, roll-attack and pewpew from a distance on practically every boss.
but its just roll roll roll
>roll to avoid capra attack
>kill dog
>roll to avoid capra attack
>kill dog
>now roll to avoid capra attack and punish
>repeat till it dies
I remember release version had the dogs right next to capra so they would immediately box you in when you enter. Good times
who the frick plays DeS and DaS1 for bosses
when did this narrative develop
combination of every boss doing that gay "hold the attack forever until you move and then instantly attack" thing and the level of bullshit input reading it does. it's just really cheap and boring once you figure out they all do this, zero regrets using summons and stuff like bleed/rot to get through the game.
Power creep. All of the bosses, and even minor enemies, have ridiculous HP pools that don't match their small movesets. Most bosses have 4 or 5 attacks at best, while still having over 20000 HP. Those scarlet rot tree guardians are a good example.
woe is me. just use summons you mentally feeble scrub.
skill issue
>what did they mean by this?
series get enjoyment out of mastering bosses and memorizing movesets, defeating them gives feeling of triumph
you are rollspamming through sloppy and lazily designed bosses
>>for elden ring make bosses annoying and unreadable requiring me to hail mary half the time, feel nothing when defeating them except relief that i dont have to deal with the annoying butthole anymore
Elden Ring bosses frick you up because you are the same passive cuck that rollspammed through the Souls trilogy
>He needs to memorize movesets in slow-ass games with extremely long telegraphs instead of just reacting
How the frick are Sekiro bosses so kino to replay but Elden Ring isn't, is it literally just because Sekiro makes you feel cool?
Sekiro has zero replay value, it's all the same every time.
Sekiro has a much better combat system, better boss fights and better gameplay in general, of course the fights feel better.
>Sekiro has a much better combat system, better boss fights and better gameplay in general
Sekiro combat system and boss fights are boring as frick
>being a tank
opinion discarded
What does that say about elden ring?
Elden ring at least has rpg elements which sekiro lacks, but sekiro is much better in terms of mechanics themselves.
ER has more options but the community insists that the only way to play the game is the most boring way imaginable that forgos all those options which the game isn't equipped for like this thread shows.
More options can be a good thing, but it's harder to make tighter gameplay with them sometimes.
Elden ring is largely just a cheaper copy paste of souls 3 with jumping added in, mechanically speaking, most of their time and effort went into the world, which I already think they stretched theirselves thin on.
I love these games but why be a blind fanboy like this?
How does criticism of these games harm you or get you defensive in any way?
ER doesn't really share a lot of DS3's combat mechanics. Most notably it's attack chaining, stamina management and gameplay pacing that are different.
Hey are you the VPN spammer?
Never heard of it. I think it's self-evident with how attacks are limited in how many you can combo and how value of rolling is decreased compared to DS3. Bosses finally caught up with the player's speed, weapon arts are a lot more useful now, jumping combines evasion and attack at the same time, spell parry is commonplace and so on.
ER shares almost all of DS3's mechanics, only really adding stagger on a half-assed state, jumping and horse riding/combat.
There is also the irrelevant counter attack that no one actually uses if you want to count that, but I think anyone trying to have a genuine discussion about this game can admit that was a failed experiment.
What else is different between them other than some bosses having slightly longer delays on attacks, bosses generally having longer and less fair/readable attack patterns and bosses generally having more blatant input reading and generally coming with some sort of heal punish attack?
The entire base of this game is dark souls 3, it practically feels like DS 3.5, it's really disappointing considering that they even went and counted it as a new IP.
It certainly doesn't feel like one.
just because you suck at the game it doesn't mean the game is bad
VPN spammer please leave
I've beaten the game at rl1, have you?
>if you know how to play the game its easier
shocking
show your first playthrough coward
Yeah it only really added another two layers to the gameplay system and changed how all weapons and dodging feel, no biggie.
>irrelevant counter attack
If anything it's really underrated. As well as blocking with colossal weapons. I'm currently playing ER focusing on combining the two, it's pretty good.
>it practically feels like DS 3.5
Yes, just like DS1 is DeS 1.5 which is entirely a good thing.
>which is entirely a good thing
No, it's not a good thing that from is getting more and more complacent or that their new IP is basically just dark souls with a new coat of paint, frick off.
>If anything it's really underrated
It's occasionally situationally useful, but there is a reason most people don't use it much, you're reaching entirely for the sake of argument.
And no, they did not add two layers to combat, they added one, and they implemented it worse than the previous game it was in, how does that even happen?
>literally point out that the boss design is shit because ER has more options
>"why are you a fanboy"
did you eat a lot of paint chips as a kid
>sekiro is much better in terms of mechanics
Sekiro is garbage in terms of mechanics
Half the prosthetics and skills are trash, stealth sucks, level design sucks. Most of the boss fights are just the boss telling you Simon Says. Elden Ring has far better, deeper and more developed combat mechnics.
The only possible reason someone may prefer Sekiro is that Sekiro is ultrasimplistic moronproof gameplay defined by the boss enforcing rock-paper-scissor tier interactions
wrong
Hey look the spammer migrated to an elden ring thread. What are the odds
>Elden Ring has far better, deeper and more developed combat mechnics.
For example?
it's really deep and developed the way every boss can hold an attack for 1000 years and snap to hit you the second you try to do anything
>For example?
The combat interactions are based around hitboxes and you can't nullify nearly every attack with a very lenient timing on button press, which increases the skill ceiling by ultimately making avoidance through movement the upper tier of gameplay mastery, something not rewarded in Sekiro
Having worthwhile hyperarmor and ability to tank certain attacks depending on gear and weapon adds variety and gives the player agency. 90% of attacks in Sekiro are impossible to interrupt and those that are give little reward anyway. In Elden Ring you actually exchange hits instead of just really taking turns at deflecting them.
Dodging attacks in Elden Ring requires proper positioning so that a roll doesn't get caught, and doesn't damage the enemy, forcing players to either use different defensive options or optimize their rolling due to recovery and enemy aggressiveness, meanwhile deflection is broken and OP and the game gives no reason to use anything else unless you must (Perilous attack system aka QTE)
That's a very generous description of Elden Ring's combat mechanics and a very reductive one of Sekiro.
I played through ER doing nothing but dodge -> swing -> dodge -> swing.
I played through Sekiro doing nothing but parry/mikiri -> swing.
You can reduce both to a very boring playstyle. But that's your own fault for doing so.
>That's a very generous description of Elden Ring's combat mechanics and a very reductive one of Sekiro.
It's honest and true to both games
>I played through ER doing nothing but dodge -> swing -> dodge -> swing.
>I played through Sekiro doing nothing but parry/mikiri -> swing.
The difference is that Elden Ring gives you valuable and worthwhile options that you can ignore, some at expenses of your effectiveness as all combat options are balance in risk/reward and have each some execution barrier, and even if you choose to purely "dodge and attack" which means you aren't even using positioning or attacks with built in dodge or tanking, your weapon of choice, armor and stats will still affect wheter or not your attack will go through something, get blocked, how easily it will interrupt the enemy and so on.
Sekiro doesn't have such nuance, your poorly balanced and gimmick tools are boring as frick, stuff like sticking a spear in the nech of a boss when it is stunned is not part of the combat flow
>The difference is that Elden Ring gives you valuable and worthwhile options that you can ignore
The difference is that in ER against bosses, if you want to play melee, outside of the roll - hit playstyle you have:
>tanking IN THE LATE GAME WITH THE HEAVIEST ARMOR AND A SHITTON OF VIGOR
>guard countering against humanoid-tier bosses
>parrying against specific humanoid-tier bosses (crucible knight, bell bearing hunters)
>spamming your most powerful AoW like flame of the redmanes or lion's claw (which may or may not fit your build)
So the fact that bosses have attacks so obnoxious to dodge, heal punishes, insane damage, long ass combos and combo extensions based on your position makes the experience for 70% of the players a total slog.
It's supposed to be an RPG where you choose your build and thus playstyle but there's always an objectively more fun and one objectively easier way to fight each boss
and a lot of these options overlap across bosses so any player who doesn't want to die over and over memorising timings is funneled into those
you're defending the game with the benefit of hindsight having already lernead the movesets, where items are, what bosses are weak to, where the strongest stuff is etc...
you're completely ignoring the approach a blind player would have
Nah you are moronic and a homosexual
>90% of the stuff you get in Sekiro is worthless and the game plays like bop it?... Well then I won't use the actually viable and varied combat options of Elden Ring to be spiteful. Black person, Sekiro combat is trash exactly because you DON'T get to choose
Are these webms supposed to support your argument?
You can obviously see how they delay the animations just to read your inputs and roll catch you for a cheap gotcha. There is nothing interesting, fun or challenging about it. It's a very crude way of doing combat AI.
The VPN schizo has never had an argument. He just spams nonsense
Sekiro is boring garbage
Sekiro actually gives you decent movement and defensive options, in ER your literal only option is rollspam even though morons in this thread keep screeching about it like it's a bad thing
sword and board build is alright in ER
look at all that rollspam =]
blind fanboys should die
Elden Ring filtered rollspammers and made their life hell. The kind of brandead O mashing gameplay that you could do with the Souls trilogy is not allowed anymore
then why can you still rollspam? Why not increase the stamina cost of rolls?
I liked every boss fight in this game except for Malenia.
The b***h straight up input reads you, and can animation cancel getting hit just to ignore poise.
Until you learn how to dodge waterfowl at close range, you're just fricked because she can throw it out any time in phase 2. Sometimes back to back if you're extremely unlucky.
Malenia is actually fun with the mod that adds Sekiro parrying to the game, it fixes a LOT of the same issues other bosses have as well. now you have a defensive option that isn't just rollspamming but also rewards you for learning boss timing to give you an opening instead of the way it works now where you just have to sit around with your thumbs up your ass and hope the game will allow you to get a hit or two in before the boss begins their next 100 hit combo
wow you're the dumbest fricking moron in this thread congratulations lol
>I liked every boss fight in this game except for Malenia.
>The b***h straight up input reads you, and can animation cancel getting hit just to ignore poise.
You literally don't understand the gameplay mechanics, but I'm feeling generous so I'm going to help you out.
Malenia has no hyperarmour during most of her moveset. So yes, you can stagger her with a dagger. AFTER you stagger her, as her hitstun ends, she has the option of doing several different attacks immediately out of hitstun, which she will select at random, and two of her possible attacks will give her instant hyperarmour on frame 1, as a method of preventing you from repeatedly staggering her. This is a design that Fromsoft have used to allow bosses to be staggered without being endlessly combo'd for several games now. After you stagger Malenia, you do not know whether she is going to do an immediate HA attack or a regular attack which you can interrupt. There is no difference to her possible options no matter how many times you have swung, because it's random. This does not mean you should run away the moment you stagger her once, because her HA animations are by design slow enough that you should be able to swing against them and still dodge in time.
So the intended approach is that after staggering her, you attack once and wait to confirm if it interrupts her or hits a HA move. If it hits HA, you dodge which you're able to do because you weren't just mashing unconfirmed R1s. Her HA options are sidestep and roundhouse kick. Her backstep only happens after the block which is triggered on back to back hitstun like DS3's combo prevention.
>Malenia is actually fun with the mod that adds Sekiro parrying to the game, it fixes a LOT of the same issues other bosses have as well.
the issue is you are trash at the game
not reading any of that, sorry. cope frombabby
oh we still got from shills for this shit around here
It's pointless to explain anything here. People talk about "clever thinking" right in this thread yet absolutely refuse to turn their brains on and learn the mechanics of the game. Like there's nothing more they can comprehend other than rolling R1's. It's obvious right away that playing ER like it's a Souls game will only lead to frustration yet people still do it and think it's everyone's fault but theirs.
>You literally don't understand the gameplay mechanics
>proceeds to write utter bullshit showing that he never played a fraction of a second of ER
At least tell me that you used some bot to shit that out and you didn't spend actual effort on it.
That's VPN spammer aka ds2schizo aka cdpr shill, he's mentally moronic
Does your mindbroken ass just F5 on the catalog every day until an ER thread pops up so you can enter and scream "VPN VPN VPN VPN" at everyone? I knew hispanics were mentally deficienct but frick me running
Malenia defenders are the worst kind of fromdrone miyazakisimp, holy shit
Imagine saying this when water fowl exists… like homie that move is the reason no one wants to stay close after staggering her.
just block
They mean that beating Elden Ring isn't satisfying. It doesn't feel like you're learning anything worth learning. You're just doing checking another annoyance off the list. I put the game down after beating the redheaded leper and never looked back other than being astonished by how much you zoomers praise this trash tier game.
Sekirogays acted smug for 3 years over their supposed high skill game and got buckbroken by ER
It's pretty funny
I had no problem beating DaS1-3 without ever using a summon or shield. ER beat that out of me in under 10 hours. I don't care to argue with people about it, but it was definitely a less enjoyable game for me personally.
Elden Ring raised the skill floor for solo play with the amount of extra mechanics. Solo players that already had mastered Souls games love Elden Ring. Less skilled players may enjoy it less but it doesn't mean ER is a worse game, the opposite
You're mentally moronic
I think the issue is that their ego is in the argument, you always see these people make arguments that elden ring is a game that requires more skill or that people with a complaint or criticism of the game were filtered.
It makes me think the whole prepare to die marketing meme was a mistake, it just results in people taking themselves too seriously like this.
it's why the Souls fanbase has been insufferable, it's all fricking losers like this that derive their self worth from how many hundreds of hours they spent memorizing every pixel of every attack in this game. meanwhile everyone else just wants to play for fun.
The VPN spammer has spammed this game for years, he's the DS2gay
>The VPN spammer has spammed this game for years, he's the DS2gay
Jesus Christ, that would explain a lot.
Yup yup, he's also like 85 IQ which is why every thread he spams turns to shit
i don't know why you're surprised, one reason this website is so shit now is that every board is full of obsessed schizo psychos like this that shit this place up because they've been banned everywhere else.
i've been enjoying talking about Doctor Who on Ganker for the first time in TWO YEARS because mods finally banned one schizo that made the threads for the show completely unusable.
It's not surprising, it's just depressing and it makes a lot of sense in retrospect.
Odds are mods didn't do shit and the schizo finally offed himself. Especially those troony TV mods which are arguably the worst on Ganker
no he got perma'd finally. you can probably check the archives for /who/ and look at how rare threads were and how quickly they devolved into literal schizo babble.
He must have been stupid to get perma'd. I've been perma'd before (for pointing out spam)
He's not wrong though. Souls games don't require that much skill but it's undeniable that they still filter people and that ER is generally harder than DS1-3.
>ER is generally harder
*Invalidates game by leveling up and stuffing rocks in sword*
Wow so hard
ER isn't harder, it's just cheap and annoying. you have plenty of cheap and annoying options too. ER is probably the easiest of the Soulslike games because of all the crazy broken shit you can do and how easily you can get to it vs other games that would block off some areas based on progress. it's not that the game's bosses are some insurmountable obstacle, it's that the design is just lazy. the solution for difficulty for every boss is like the same 3-4 things over and over again. that's what people are complaining about.
ER is easy on certain setups you have to go out of your way to find. Other Souls games are easy on any setup and any build AND they also have completely overpowered shit that breaks the game on top of the "normal" playing styles being easier than ER's "normal" playing styles. All other things you said applies to all Souls game in general, a decade ago people also called DS1 cheap and annoying.
I hate using the word because of how overused it is here, but god what a cope
>you have to go out of your way to find
one class starts with a katana. poison and other bleed weapons are very easy to find in the first area as well. everyone was using bleed because of how powerful it was. there was no "going out of your way" to figure that out lol
In DeS one class starts with the best catalyst, MP boosting armor and MP regen ring. In DS1 one class is SL1 with two attunement slots and pyromancy. In DS3 two classes start out with the best weapons and armor in the game. All of this is better than just having "a katana", which you also obtain in the first hour of DS1 and 3.
>everyone was using bleed because of how powerful it was
And still struggled until they found Rivers of Blood. And still cried about the bosses even using it. Meanwhile DS1-3 doesn't even need bleed because the best strat is sniffing the boss's balls and iframing into its crotch or just attacking non-stop and outhealing the damage. Do you not remember the short/curved sword meta of DS3? Because I do.
>ER isn't harder, it's just cheap and annoying.
This has been the go-to argument all shitters used by default for every Souls game
>Demon's Souls isn't hard, just cheap and annoying
>Dark Souls isn't hard, just cheap and annoying
and so on.
Elden Ring is "harder" because hard is just a vague term to describe how much a game forces you to abide to its rule and understand the mechanics and its execution.
Unlike previous Souls games it punished people blindly dodging away at any and all directions multiple times, something you could get away with previously and the reason those games were criticized. It also made other mechanics like parrying, blocking, attacking, movement and so on, making it a better game.
You can be in denial about it just like people previously used to cope with Dark Souls or Dark Souls 2 or 3 or BB being "not hard but annoying". That doesn't make it any less pathetic, because you were legitimately buck broken by a videogame
yeah, and did you beat it in a no hit run?
Everything in ER is generally easier than 2-3 with the tools given except for Godfrey and Elden Beast.
sure blind fanboy sure
rollslop
you can be a coward and use bows or magic or be a homosexual tank
Are bows good now? I just use the grafted blade
dunno, i'm not a coward
They can be ok, they're better but I'd say they still suck.
NTA but that's a shame, i thought about doing a ranger build or something. i wonder if any of the mods fix bows to make them a little more viable.
https://archive.4plebs.org/tv/thread/180242282/#180242282 perfect example of what i'm talking about
he was allowed to do this to every single thread about the show for over 2 years lol
Yeah that's one mentally defective spammer
To this day, not a single person has provided a simple explanation regarding why
>Delayed Attacks
>The boss hitting you when you heal right in front of them in neutral
>combos
are bad things. Not a single person as managed to explain why those should be seen as bad.
Nobody cares VPN schizo
Input reading is mostly used when you try to heal while the boss isn't doing anything, when you press the heal button, they will hit you.
This is a GOOD thing because it forces you to heal after dodging an attack the boss made (he'll be recovering and unable to hit you back). In essence, healing becomes a choice, will you not heal in order to do damage, or will you pass on that opportunity to do damage to get some health back? That's way more interesting than just healing while the boss does nothing
Nobody asked VPN schizo
what are you even talking about
>input reading its good
shut up shill
He's not a shill, he's just mentally moronic. He's like Ganker's pet gerbil
instead of resorting to insults, you could also engage with the argument
as hard as i am on this place it's still good because you can tell a stupid homosexual that he's a moron and tell him to kill himself without being expected to engage in his homosexual argument and take him seriously
you're a moron, have a nice day
>he'll be recovering
Did you not play at launch? Bosses regularly animation cancelled to bonk you for healing. It got patched out in the big nerfs tho.
I’ve been playing through for the first time and while I’ve been having fun in some respects, it’s much less addictive than the Dark Souls formula for me. Part of it is the world being simultaneously too cluttered and too empty for its own good, part of it is the actual dungeons still lack the tightness of typical souls design, and part of it is definitely the bosses.
I have to agree: the bosses are overturned. They’re tiresome. They’re super aggressive, they all have fake tells, and they almost all have a second phase. They don’t feel as fair. They don’t feel as fun. They’re much less varied in how the actual fights play out. They’re visually distinct, but the rhythm of fighting them is always one that forces a ton of rolling and a ton of waiting.
So far I’ve beaten the first three great lords (godrick, radahn, lady), the gargoyles, the astel naturalborne guy, the red knight in the poison castle with the flying sword, plenty of the optional minibosses, the crucible knight/beast guy combo, and the tree sentinel guy to get into the capital. The only one I beat on my first try was Astel. I also started the game as the naked guy and I beat the tree sentinel before gaining the ability to level up. No summoning or anything for any of these, btw.
I think the game is afraid to ease off the gas. And I think overall while it’s one of the prettiest games I’ve ever played in the way the art design comes through — it just makes me want to go back and play Dark Souls 1, 2 & 3 again. I miss when people still played those. What a time to be alive.
But yeah, after not commenting on these threads and finally getting around to it. I totally see what people were talking about with the boss criticism. I thought it was just first-timers venting their frustrations. It’s not. None of them have stumped me yet, and there are some good ones, but they’re so much more annoying on average. I feel relief and not accomplishment like OP said.
Yeah, that relief is how I feel after beating the game several times.
The DLC is honestly going to have to be something special to drag me back to this game, which is really weird to say after having been so addicted to everything from has made for at least a decade now.
trying to imagine what level of contrivance they'll go on to try to trump the """difficulty""" of the base game's bosses gives me a headache. will probably give it a while and play it modded. mods like Convergence that fix most magic sucking were really nice to play through, made me wish i had played it that way my first time instead.
At most I just think they'll have a boss that you won't be able to use summons for, or maybe have the boss turn your summons against you
Nah, that's a skill issue, stop playing Elden Ring like it's Dark Rolls
>I thought it was firsttimers venting their frustration
Everybody is a first timer to Elden Ring, especially "Souls veterans" that also whined and b***hed en masse about Nameless King or Manus
ok vpn troony
That's weird because elden shart is an asset flipped ds3 VPN troony
Lol. It’s funny you think you can tell me what my own assessment of it is. If I find a baby’s whining annoying is that, also, a skill issue? Like I said, none have stumped me yet. Did my critique hurt your feelings?
Insert mentally moronic incoherent VPN Black person response here
>It’s funny you think you can tell me what my own assessment of it is.
I can because "[insert the most recent Souls game] is not hard but annoying" has been a constant since Souls games exist. If this kind of half assed butthurt posting was legitimate criticism it would get backed up by gameplay showing the issue with the mechanics or enemy design instead of pointless seetheposting looking for a criclejerk with equally asshurt players. It's always baseless b***hing of morons that can't adapt to the ruleset imposed, because every time anti-ER gays tried to post a webm they always came up with the most dogshit low skill gameplay possible, and that's why they won't take any suggestion or hint.
>It's always baseless b***hing
Sure thing VPN troony
so how are you supposed to dodge that attack in your webm? What is the intended strategy?
Time your roll instead of spamming it
You're supposed to know the exact point the enemy's grab attack is active and when it's inactive? That's unreasonable. His arms are open that whole time. You want a player to stand there waiting for some kind of clear visible sign to roll now? (There isn't one).
You should be more sensible.
they literally expect you to memorize his shoulders shruging .5 seconds before he actually grabs, they expect you to time it, except every enemy has shit like this and so does every boss and none of them matter to each other so learning one doesn't help you with the next
if you can't stop rolling at movement the game isn't made for you, it's made for autistic people who can memorize all that crap and still find it fun, you can't roll on reaction because it builds bad habits or rather it's just bad in elden ring and DS3 because they specifically designed it to bait you into rolling
don't forget while you're trying to not activate your reaction roll, they also have quick moves that if you don't roll on reaction they will hit you
>they literally expect you to memorize his shoulders shruging .5 seconds before he actually grabs
you actually typed this, think it's reasonable, and defending this. I'm speechless.
He's probably used to playing nuGoW, where everything's a qte with unlimited time to complete.
the problem is the entire game is just memorization, you don't learn anything from fighting those guys
Not my fault you're too stupid to see when he pulls his arms back, telegraphing the actual attack. In fact, most of the attacks that filter you rollspamming homosexuals are designed that way. Giant indicator of what attack they're about to do, then another indicator that the attack is actually about to start.
I bet you cried about Margit too
>Not my fault you're too stupid to see when he pulls his arms back
yes right at the start
before the 10 seconds delay you dumb blind fanboy
>actually is too stupid to see it
Thanks for proving me right
>am I really supposed to learn the attack of an enemy even if it means getting hurt by it??
Yes, zoom-zoom, you are. Welcome to Souls games.
Elden shart doesn't deserve that level of attention
Yeah, that's how ER is designed. Barely anything is intuitive and there's a lot of "gotchas" with the timings since the windups often don't feel natural at all. Yeah sure, you *can* learn everything and get away with not getting hit but it's a design philosophy that's built to make you fail rather than the failure making any sort of sense. There's less of a sense of "Oh, I rolled too early" and it's more "why is the bosses holding his arm up for a second and a half too long".
>why is the bosses holding his arm up for a second and a half too long
"Bosses"? Which ones?
Margit. The tutorial boss that teaches you that you can't just panic roll every time an enemy twitches. He got hard filtered and probably quit at that point .
>The tutorial boss that teaches
Calling Margin a tutorial boss is the most cope thing I've ever seen here. He shows up after several other world bosses and is usually only fought two or three hours into the game.
He also teaches you frick-all because no other boss has a move-set like his or frame-cancels into bonus attacks.
That's a lot of words just to tell me you got filtered
>*Rings bell*
>Jellyfish wife poisons him
>Spams L2
>Boss suffers a massive stroke and collapses while I get the Hemorage off from one of the 102 weapons with base Bleed on it
Ah yes. Filtered.
If you had to adjust to beat a boss you were taught something.
It teaches you not to be a rollspamming passive homosexual and you failed the test
Stamina is supposed to do that. Not bayonetta anime fights.
>I should be able to rollspam unpunished at least a little bit!
lmao filtered
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Older Souls games are better because the failure is meant to be your fault, and you were supposed to learn.
In ER if you fail, that's meant to happen and keep happening until you memorize everything in this highly conditional boss fight perfectly.
>Older Souls games are better because they don't punish me for rollspam. It's the game's fault that I can't git gud
ftfy famalam
>Time your roll
With the massive input delay and input eating ER has?
And input reading
this game would be less annoying if i didn't have to frick around with shit like edging my button presses by deliberately holding and releasing, or practicing the forbidden insta-tap technique, to get the most fundamental and important defensive maneuver to feel responsive
dodge and sprint being on the same button has been shit since the beginning
It literally doesn't matter, even if you macro the key for 1ms release, ER has as input delay on the dodge button because From decided to use DS3's shit engine code instead of DS2's engine or Sekiro's code.
at some point i need to sack up and finish that comparison clip i meant to make in a similar vein to this between ds1/2/er
always felt like 2's roll was somehow the least laggy of the bunch and wanted to see if that was true or just a vague form of mania
while i'm at it frick backsteps not having iframes worth a shit outside of dumping into ADP in 2, that shit is the real reason to crank agility
phasing through the overheads those turtle khomies spam while facing backwards is great
2 has input lag on Mouse inputs but nothing else, for whatever reason. DS3 is when the universal input lag started popping up, and they tried to cover it up with their god-awful input queue.
There's no input lag in Elden Ring or DS3, input que is necessary because all attacks feel like shit in DS2 where you have to time precisely every step of your combo
Yeah sure, anyway see here:
Elden Ring roll happens on button depression. You can test how backstep happens instantly to prove how there's no such thing as input delay.
>Stamina is supposed to do that.
That was never intended in Miyazaki games and didn't work in DS2, it just made every other option including attacking a lot less appealing? while the bosses were still boring garbage where you dodged once or twice their attack and hit back a bunch. Elden Ring bosses are dynamic fights with interesting back and forth and deep combat interactions.
Yes it was and it did
>Elden Ring roll happens on button depression.
Yep. There's also input delay on top of that. This is demonstrably true in the clip where the roll happens 5 frames after the button is depressed.
>That was never intended
Holy Christ no wonder the series is slowly degrading over time if more people think like you
At NO POINT rolling as defensive move was ever balanced by stamina. At no point you ever couldn't roll 5 to 8 times in a row. The balancing element was the substantial recovery from it and the fact that it reduced your window and stamina for attacking. Even dagger light attacks in Dark Souls cost more stamina than rolling. This common misconception and argument is even more silly when Dark Souls had fricking ninja flipping that was the most OP form of rolling jn the series, so broken From only introduced it again by using FP
Nah, there isn't, the game waits less than 50ms (from your own webm) after button depression which is a natural delay of any input system and on a frame by frame basis all games would have it
>the game waits
I'm glad you agree that there's input delay.
>on a frame by frame basis all games would have it
Except Sekiro, which doesn't. Like in the clip.
morons, man. Unbelievable.
>Except Sekiro, which doesn't
Yes it does, your favourite youtuber can't just pretend it doesn't by sticking a 0 on the upper left corner
They all have the same exact delay all peripherals on all games have.
>NOOOOO you don't get it, I'm not shit, it's the 50 ms delay that gets me killed
lol
You know there's a difference between peripheral input lag and software input lag, right? Fricking dumbass.
There's no software input lag in Fromsoftware games. your
>You know lying doesn't actually win you an argument right?
>Don't you know that ER's roll has as many iframes as the Dark Wood Ring baseline?
ok dude
>Accuses other of lying
>blatantly lying
>There's no software input lag in Fromsoftware games.
Yeah sure, anyway see here:
there's no such thing as input lag in Fromsoftware games
>Your chart demonstrates the issue. Dark Souls 3 gives you the same i-frames and fewer recovery frames at 70% equipload that in Dark Souls 1 you would need to strip down all your armor and be 25% to achieve.
Which is better as they designed the ebemy attacks around a tighter difference between iframes, using mainly distancing as balancing element instead, much better as invulnerability and recovery as standardized.
>And that's not even counting the fact that rolls in DS1 cost a significantly higher proportion of your stamina meter.
Also wrong, they cost the same in proportion actually
No, you are just full of shit, that's what you are.
You agreeing or not doesn't change that your statement is blatantly wrong, you can get a shitload of iframes exactly with Dark Wood and Ninja flip ring, way more than Dark Souls 3 or Elden Ring. So no, Dark Souls is literally more rollspammy than both as the chart shows.
Oh look it's the mass replying VPN homosexual
Samegayging won't make you look right, just deranged, neither is working downloading and posting random Dark Souls images from the archive to try to fit in after claiming Dark Souls "was slow" because you only absorbed Dark Souls from youtube essays and secondaries. You don't know shit about Elden Ring nor Dark Souls nor Demon's Souls nor Souls games, your larp doesn't work. We can tell you are faking just like you are faking having a vegana.
>there's no such thing as input lag in Fromsoftware games
Yeah sure, anyway see here:
What does it mean when it states x% next to fastroll or ninjaflip?
It's equipload. Getting fast roll was significantly harder in earlier games because you needed to specifically stat-out your character for Equip Load stats, which were less forgiving in Dark Souls, especially in 2 and 3 where it's an entirely separate stat.
Whereas in ER you just pump END because it raises one of the best defensive stats in the game, and Stamina, and Carry Weight, and you Fast and Med-roll at higher percentages in ER than previous games.
Yeah I know about equip load but is this saying that there is better rolls below just the standard 25% equip load fastroll?
Your chart demonstrates the issue. Dark Souls 3 gives you the same i-frames and fewer recovery frames at 70% equipload that in Dark Souls 1 you would need to strip down all your armor and be 25% to achieve. And that's not even counting the fact that rolls in DS1 cost a significantly higher proportion of your stamina meter. You can roll like 20 fricking times in DS3 before depleting your stamina in DS3 IIRC.
And that's because bosses are faster
Which goes back to the issue that DS3's gameplay is smoke and mirrors, making things appear flashier and more aggressive when all that's really doing on is you have enemies doing spazzy combos and you have infinite-stamina fastrolls that you mash through. Functionally it's really not any more "challenging" then having to actually manage your stamina and do one properly timed roll to dodge a single attack in an earlier entry vs just mindlessly mashing rolls through a multi-hit flurry to i-frame through the entire thing.
>I was 1 frame off
kek, I'll be honest I took a complete guess on the frame data, but I'm glad I was nearly right in the end. TY for disproving yourself for me.
I want to say pre-nerf bloodhound step was worse but I don't exactly have numbers on that.
I seriously doubt your dagger claims but I don't have time to go test in dark souls 1 while I'm on my way to a family gathering.
Regardless of your semantics, stamina consumption and overall commitment to rolls is far higher in dark souls 1 and even dark souls 2 than 3 and Elden ring, which is the problem.
Do whatever kind of ego stroking you want with this pedantic no aktually shit but you know full well what people are talking about with rolls whether you actually address it or not.
>Regardless of your semantics, stamina consumption and overall commitment to rolls is far higher in dark souls 1 and even dark souls 2 than 3 and Elden ring
no it isn't, stamina simply became more efficient for all actions, including attacks.
This is also why Elden Ring is less rollspammy. Again, you have no fricking clue of the game
>Elden Ring is less rollspammy
Thanks, this is all I needed to know you're full of shit. The only game elden ring might be less rollspammy than is dark souls 3, and that's very much up for debate. I'm going to ignore you now since you're obviously just a shitposter.
He's just lying. Even with upgraded stamina you get 4 rolls. Realistically it's 3 in any combat situation if you actually attack at all. Plus there's recovery. Plus the stamina regen is dependent on how heavy you are too. All minimize roll spam before designing your game with gatcha delayed roll catching input reading artificial cheating bullshit.
>game waits less than 50ms
After the button is released, there are 5 frames before the run-cycle ends. You are fricking brain-dead and have no idea what you're talking about.
Can you do 5/60 you subhuman wienersucking homosexual? it's 83 ms
0.083 seconds
You moronic homosexual
you have no idea of what Dark Souls plays like
You can ninjaflip at every attack and win easily with that. It's the most rollspammy because there's zero punishment.
Demon's Souls is also badly balanced because under 50/100 equip load in a game where armor is useless you can roll so easily against enemies so moronic unles you fall for the armor noobtrap. Rolling only is les and less appealing in later games
The video isn't at 60 frames dumbass. Holy frick you are so fricking stupid it's unreal. At least you openly admit that there's additional input lag now. I accept your concession in its entirety.
>The video isn't at 60 frames dumbass
yes it is, stop lying
The original youtube video is recording a game going at 60 fps
The timing itself is 5 frames with a counter going from 0.050 to 0.116, so with a timespam of 0.066 it's 5/0.066 which is over 75, but assuming those frames aren't recorded at the very exact moment of button and with an higher difference then it's easy to see how it rounds up to 60 FPS
This is the original video
?si=mTcQusrHmaMwPMMU
There's no input delay on Elden Ring
>There's no input delay on Elden Ring
You said it yourself right here:
>Can you do 5/60 you subhuman wienersucking homosexual? it's 83 ms
>0.083 seconds
See? There's an input delay of 83ms on top of other peripheral delays and dumbshit like waiting for button release.
Just take the L and have a good Thanksgiving.
>You said it yourself right here
No, I said there's a delay to rolling. This is a game design choice, not an input delay, and serves to make running not instant but committ to a press for a variety of reasons (mainly avoid spamming running attacks and to give rolling time for the player to walk into a direction), and delay rolling over backstep
>See? There's an input delay of 83ms on top of other peripheral delays
It's not "on top"... it's THE peripheral delays, the actual delay is 100ms for a roll, as the maker of video also explained
>it's THE peripheral delays
I love that you're this invested in not knowing the impossibility of what you're arguing. Like the software is capable of recording its own delay is fricking phenomenally so beyond your comprehension of this subject that you're just going to sit here and be dead-wrong for hours while I wait for my Turkey to finish.
It's incredibly that you have absolutely no greater understanding for a single point that you're arguing.
kek
>At no point you ever couldn't roll 5 to 8 times in a row.
You know lying doesn't actually win you an argument right? Like you're not fooling anyone who has actually played these games.
>This common misconception and argument is even more silly when Dark Souls had fricking ninja flipping that was the most OP form of rolling jn the series, so broken From only introduced it again by using FP
Oh you sweet little moron. Don't you know that ER's roll has as many iframes as the Dark Wood Ring baseline? Don't you know that ER's roll has 1 frame less of recovered compared to Ninja Flip in Dark Souls 1?
An absolutely pathetic attempt. Learn your place you secondary. Don't speak on things you know nothing about.
>That was never intended in Miyazaki games
It wasn't until Japan Studio helped make BB good that Miyazaki tried to do it their way and make a fast-paced action game. But he's fundamentally misunderstood the mechanics of iframe-spam ever since, and instead of course-correcting back to what he knows works, because he's afraid of doing that, he's just creating larger and larger frick ups to try and course-correct the hard way.
>lying about a flaw and then deflecting to the game i don't like which doesn't have that flaw
Backstepping is an almost completely worthless mechanic. They'd be better served to take a page from Lies of P's book and introduce more weapons with back-dash attacks to combo with the constant slide forward.
Nothing beats the Wintry Rapier.
It wouldn't work in ER because all the bosses are more than 15ft tall with a 20ft reach and they're hyper mobile.
This video was never accurate. The actual delay is 100ms FOR ROLLING, which happens because of the button depression
>this proof on the fricking game its fake
>this random text on a jpg its the real deal
fricking drone
>>this random text on a jpg
it's the same guy that made the video explaining why he measured wrong
>The big issue is that souls controls are trash and they tie sprinting to the dodge button. Since the game needs to interpret whether youre hitting the button to dodge vs holding the button to sprint, there's inherently a delay
They are not trash and there's nothing wrong with how they work. Delaying running and rolling is necessary and good game design because otherwise players would just spam running attack and trivialize everything. The alternative for running would be a blended longer animation into a running stance before running begins, you wouldn't get instabt running either way, so it might as well put the delay to good use by slotting 2 commands.
At no point dodging or running delays gets anyone killed, that's just shitter cope
>it's the same guy that made the video explaining why he measured wrong
The guy was literally in this thread earlier and never said this, but sure we believe you.
>The guy was literally in this thread earlier
sure he was, too bad that screencap is his comment. have a nice day
>The solution is to not have sprinting and dodging tied to the same button input
can you read ESL? dodging and running need to be delayed because they would be both too strong, you have to COMMITT to a dodge or running otherwise anybody would just spam Uchigatana running attacks and win, moron
other action game has a sub 10frame iframe window
(at 30fps) (with 2 recovery frames)
>>With good action games like DMC and Bayonetta having Just frame timings that work flawlessly
I guess God of War 2018 is the best action game ever made
thinks that these games need delays out the ass because FROM can't code for shit and has to dance around input delay and 14iframes of leniency for morons.
Elden Ring doesn't give a shit about "other action games". The PVE is designed around PVP, like it or not
you commit to the dodge by pressing the dodge button. The issue is that the game has a delay on actually interpreting your dodge as a dodge because tying two functions to the same input necessitates a delay for the game to tell whether your input is a short press vs a long hold.
You get used to this delay pretty quickly though. The only people that complain about this delay quit around burial watchdog.
Or they could just not have that.
And then you could stop coping with poor control design
It’s not that poor, it’s ingenious design as an idiot admires complexity but a he joia admires simplicity. A one button does all design is the ideal approach but it comes at the expense of automation, when you can get away with it without that automation then it’s desirable.
>you commit to the dodge by pressing the dodge button. The issue is that the game has a delay on actually interpreting your dodge as a dodge because tying two functions to the same input necessitates a delay for the game to tell whether your input is a short press vs a long hold.
Running NEEDS TO be gated to a button hold, that's undeniable. I can't honestly make an argument for the "delay" on dodging because I hace never felt it, and I have never ever been killed or felt like it was an issue in every game. The meme were that Dark Souls 3 was a super easy roll roll game and suddenly rolling is bad? but also not? what? especially when "rolling" starts on frame 1 so with the literal animation you become invulnerable
We're talking about dodging. Nobody cares about there being a delay on sprint. That's fine, it's not an action you do to react to an oncoming attack
Once you get used to the button RELEASE action it becomes second nature and you never run / dodge on accident anymore.
I love how hard you're struggling when nothing you say will disproved the video evidence in this very thread.
>there's numbers on the screen it must be accurate
ok moron
?si=d8DHTfdAtK0WRZA-
Yeah sure, anyway see here:
>Link a video about there being a delay and how to fix it
>Keep arguing that there's no delay
This comes exactly from the guy that made that video
>It's not a delay per se, the roll is on BUTTON RELEASE, which makes it feel like there's a delay
?si=ebVe7gr2zE-hR-MK
This is the guy that homosexual stole the video from.
You may not like this design, I don't give a shit. It's literally not input delay, seethe
It's the same thing you absolute cumguzzling homosexual. Jesus frick you Shitden Shart shills will literally NEVER stop coming up with ways to cope with Slopshit Poopfartring being fricking garbage. Lick the shit crumbs off my butthole.
>It's the same thing
no it's not, it's not an input delay
there's nothing to fix, it's an intended delay on rolls
>an intended delay on rolls
Alright, at least you've circled back around to agreeing that you're wrong again.
At no point anybody here argued that rolls aren't delayed. That doesn't mean input delay, literal selective input delay on once specific action that is mysteriously surely an oversight, you moron kek
But keep spamming, remember to quote 10 more posts with VPN or something and give more (You)s each minute pretending you are different people
Yeah sure, anyway see here:
>At no point anybody here argued that rolls aren't delayed.
>NOOOOO you don't get it, I'm not shit, it's the 50 ms delay that gets me killed
Interesting.
>quote a post acknowledging the inherent delay rolls have due to 2 commands on 1 button
are you moronic? or what?
you have several people telling you the roll delay is just about getting used to it
Sure thing shazamtroon, amuse us with more bumps
>us
You are all alone ERtard.
bro pulled out the phone with sim card connection to larp here
kek
He legitimately pays for a VPN just to make threads and not get perma'd for spamming threads
...based on my own insane delusions and the things the voices told me. I'm trans btw!
Samegayging, how ironic.
the most blatant samgayging I have ever seen, honestly sad
You tried.
>He thinks we don't know how mobile phones works
Love that you know you've lost your moronic argument so you'll just deflect to the boogeyman from now on.
Anyway my turkey is just out of the oven. Everyone have a great Thanksgiving!
Hopefully your family dies on the way to your house lol, I'll pray that at least one of your parents is diagnosed with cancer
Sanest Fromtroony
Oh wow you know how to use inspect element, much impress
>us
But VPN spammer you're just one worthless homosexual
>VPN spammer gets mad that people are doing what he's doing
Awh little homosexual gonna cry?
>admits he's a samespic
>Calls 20 different posters the same boogeyman that left the thread 2 hours ago after postong half a dozen webm
>You are all alone
kek
If you don't stop spamming you're going to have a mental breakdown
Reading through this reply chain this moron's circular argument is that FROM purposefully made rolls less responsive because running and rolling are too strong (Even though ER's rolls were buffed compared to the last game). So instead of just reigning those defensive options into where they were in previous games, they put a 5-7 frame (it's not even consistent because it's software based on CPU cycles, so it's even larger on Consoles) delay after the PC receives the input, because dishonest game design that makes it feel awful is what they were aiming for.
>From made the game shit on purpose
What level of cope are you on now?
aren't you calling me VPN now? 🙁
At least you know your daddy VPNtroony
It's been a while since I've seen this level of brain-dead homosexualry on this board.
The solution is to not have sprinting and dodging tied to the same button input, you illiterate mongoloid.
>Every other action game has a sub 10frame iframe window
>With good action games like DMC and Bayonetta having Just frame timings that work flawlessly
>ERtard thinks that these games need delays out the ass because FROM can't code for shit and has to dance around input delay and 14iframes of leniency for morons.
>enemies have frame perfect tracking, input reading, etc.
>player control has to be dogshit because.... because it does, okay?!
i am not looking forward to ER2
Spammable super fast low iframe dodges are garbage game design, I'll take Elden Ring dodge over Nioh dash spam
The big issue is that souls controls are trash and they tie sprinting to the dodge button. Since the game needs to interpret whether youre hitting the button to dodge vs holding the button to sprint, there's inherently a delay, as opposed to if the dodge button were purely to dodge and triggered at the start of the press.
are there really still no mods that fix this shit
It's intrinsic to the game, unfortunately. I don't think mods would fix that. Not to mention any such modification in any of the the games made after the PTDE DaS1 release would get you shadowbanned for """hacking""". Best I've seen done to try to get around this is to use steam input to map a dedicated dodge command to a "start press". This slightly helps but doesn't solve the full issue because the game logic still has an inherit delay as it needs to wait a sec to make sure it's not a "hold" for a sprint.
Dear lord you're pathetic.
It makes more sense to not spam your roll to conserve stamina and less so because an enemy is just going to hold his arms out and wait for you to press it.
NTA but like one of my posts said you have to memorize a specific movement they do or the timing because you can't just 'react' to these things anymore, you have to literally learn when and where it does it's swing because intuitive design is bad or something
>you have to memorize a specific movement they do
Yup. That's the problem. So much of the game is memorization. You have to eat shit and die repeatedly and memorize every aspect of the enemies. In the past, you could clearly react on first meeting by being aware of your enemies, your surroundings and watching their movements.
Now you just have to eat shit and die and memorize everything. It's terrible game design.
If you attack him he staggers out of it
yes delayed attacks are shit
only blind fanboys disagre with that
>It's always baseless b***hing of morons that can't adapt to the ruleset imposed
Alright dumbass. No one is complaining about adapting. These games don't take skill, don't make me fricking laugh. That's why every random twitch thott and even pornhub c**ts can beat this game. There is no git gut argument anymore. The truth is revealed, these games are easy and stupid.
The actual topic is that people dislike dishononest game design like an enemy charging 100ft in a circle to then delay his grab an additional 18 frames once he's in range for no reason other than to get a free 1900 damage on the player.
>t-the game is not hard, it's just dishonest!
Heard that from DS1 days. The answer remains the same as back a decade ago: git gud.
>Rings bell to summon mimic
>Checks RP for Hoarfrost spam
>Puts on Blasphemous Blade
Yeah, it's Soulsgay time.
Say it withme: *Ring* ER is not a skill-based game. *Ring*
Nobody said dark souls 3 was annoying because it was rollspam + r1 spam the game, and the bosses mostly had cool and distinct movesets that didn't rely on delayed attacks and 10 second anime combos. People said it was boring and linear, which it was.
pathetic
They can't really scale the difficulty down either. If they went back to how bosses were in DS1 and DS2, they'd be way too easy and boring for the players that have played all Fromsoft games and gotten better at them over the years.
Yeah that's very true, something needs to change mechanically.
does it really matter that much though? there are plenty of options to challenge yourself if you're part of that crew. don't level, use a crappy weapon on purpose, etc.
If you're part on that crew, then you'd rather do a SL1 crappy weapon run against hard as frick bosses than against easy bosses
Difficulty doesn't really matter so it's fine to me either way. But I'd rather it go up than down.
You guys stupid? The game literally has difficulty built into the game mechanics via Ashes and summoning, not to mention that now if you find your skill isn't a match for a boss it's far easier to go around leveling up and improving gear than it was in older titles thrn come back.
yeah but that's only because every boss is designed to be as cheap and obnoxious as possible. it's not like you're surmounting real mechanical difficulty, you're just trying to outcheese the AI.
>as cheap and obnoxious
skill issue
If you're bad, sure. I literally skipped Stormveil on my first playthrough and did all of Raya Lucaria and Liurnia 15 levels behind
And that makes the game good how
Allows you to control the challenge you're facing via your choices. If you're actually good it's not difficult to treat the game as a straight line going directly for main objectives. If you're bad the game is more than gracious giving you the tools to help you overcome the fast paced and aggressive bosses inexperienced players will struggle with.
I mean the game is braindead so you're not "good" for riding your horse and collecting shinies VPN troony
I literally just explained how riding around collecting shinies is the games easy mode.
>If you're good you can ride around and collect OP weapons
>VPN troony that doesn't make sense that makes the game easier
>I know I just said it's easy mode
VPN troony is already incoherent
Are you mentally unhinged? I literally don't know what the frick you're talking about.
Yeah I don't understand what you're trying to say either VPN troony, probably because you're mentally moronic
bosses in elden ring are more stat checks than in other souls games (which was really just 4kings and maybe nito), if you are having trouble just do explore more of the map since most of the game is optional areas.
i was having trouble with margit until i realised this was an rpg, so i went down south to explore and returned with bigger stat numbers after finishing the rain island area, then he was an ez win.
main bosses are the last thing you should be doing, and you dont even need to kill all of them to progress.
I'm glad they removed poise from these games, facetanking everything with Havel's Armor in DS1 sucks
Frick you, I loved poise, just use light armor if you hate it.
Elden Ring is Bloodborne 2 where DS1 and 2 players acted like Cleric Beast and Gascoigne were the hardest bosses in gaming when it’s literally just don’t take turns to the extreme
That's just the way it is. Everyone's a tryhard who wants to be an elite hardcore gamer and laugh over the "filtered casuals" now. This series isn't for people who value integrity anymore, it's for braggarts just looking for another chance to offhandedly call it easy as a passive brag.
>start game
>get any somber weapon
>do the +9 rock route
>rush the game
it’s that easy
Yeah elden ring just didn't feel 'fun' for me at a lot of points
like the difficulty is all over the place, i died more to margit and red wolf of radagon than any other bosses. Mohg was the only fun fight and I think that's simply because he didn't have moronic delays and had an actual rhythm to his swings
the game just felt too big and the bosses felt too fast, with too many moving parts and other delays that essentially force you to wait for specific movements on their body or just memorize the timing all together, but nothing you learn from bosses will help you complete the game, every boss is a completely new experience and whatever you learned from the previous boss is now pointless because now you have to memorize another set of highly detailed movements or memorize more timing
Morgott is the easiest demigod because he’s Margit without the cane poke roll catch though.
well thanks for reaffirming my opinion but i know i'm not that good at the game and it might just be the fact it's not for me anymore, not that it's a hard game but i lack the patience to push through harder stuff like melania
I had the patience to push through and 100% complete the game+all trophies. It's still very poorly designed on the boss front.
Yeah it's very poorly designed all throughout. I actually enjoy the massive golem fights more than any curated boss in the game. Felt like the tower knight but better.
>Common enemy has one attack where it plunges forward with multi-hits but slowly enough that anyone can run or walk away until it falls to the ground
>This confuses the Elden Ring hater, despite being the same as a skeleton spinning attack in Dark Souls 1 and 3
Don't even get memed into believing the ER haters are DS1 fans, they are Shazamtroons pretending
VPN troony is mad
nobody complains about common enemies, everyone complains about the bosses (for good reason).
Also
>nerfing hoarfrost stomp
>endgame boss just entire zone AoE stomps where the wind-ups don't flow into the attack animation well at all and everyone praises him
such fricking hypocrites
>nobody complains about common enemies
then you clearly missed a bunch of posts, becauae there's several anon agreeing to a clear attack with clear explotable weakness being "bullshit"
Malenia at RL1 is the hardest so far but I’ve only done also done DeS, DS1, and Bloodborne. Malenia, Kos, and Laurence were the hardest parts.
KENNETH HAIGHT DID 9/11
The game is unironically a bad FROM game and just an average/good game overall due to the current gaming landscape. It only got such rave reviews and GOTY because it's release became the cultural zeitgeist fueled by the FROMsexuals stating how Miyazaki was the second coming of christ for the past 10 years. I enjoy FROM games but the fanbase is embarassing and ER is a massive step back imo and I think as a game is lacking imagination or inspiration.
I also understand your frustration but if you understand that the game wants you to break the bosses stagger and deliver a critical hit you will have a lot more enjoyment out of the bosses. Find your opening and use charged heavy attacks or weapon arts until their stance is broken. I despised the game and ended up using mimic because I was so sick of the boss design and it just tilted me thinking about it.
>Open world should have all the cut and paste content removed and reduced in scale by %70
>Main focus should be on legacy dungeons
>Duo bosses are just 2 mobs put together and the devs saying frick you, no thought put into it like Bell Gargoyles or Twin Demons
>Horse that can run from everything reducing sense of danger
>Posture bar should be shown next to boss healthbar to teach players better
>Excessive use of delayed attacks and roll catches is just tiresome
>Some moves have insane chains and insanely short windups it's impossible for the average person to deal with (don't care what some poop socking challenge runner says about look at his left nutsack then you can see the move he's going to make)
>Melania waterfowl dance is bullshit I don't care if you can no hit it after 500 hours, it's a bullshit attack that does not belong in the game
>People saying "change your build" instantly invalidates the game as being an RPG since multiple builds should be viable.
The overall game is boring, has subpar atmosphere compared to other souls games, and the bosses are unironically too hard.
Play Lies of P.
80% of what you said is true but I think lies of P is worse even if it's pretty impressive for a third party game.
I appreciate how faithful it's design is in some respects and some of the boss designs are very cool.
Fair enough, for me it was just such a breath of fresh air I felt like I understood everything the bosses wanted of me and never really had much of a frustrating experience. I also enjoyed the story and theme of the game. My main complaints are that the world is not a DaS1 type of semi linear experience, but what game is, and also that there wasn't much mixup in scenery everything just looks too similar.
Yeah, the world feels a bit too linear in lies of P, they did an astounding job for it being their first crack at it.
>if you understand that the game wants you to break the bosses stagger and deliver a critical hit
Does it? Then why do a lot of bosses take 10-15% less critical hit damage than normal?
Because frick you
Elden Ring is one of the easiest games in From history, and with Lies of P out there are even souslikes harder than it. Why do you gays always make excuses for being bad?
290 / 37 / 68 / 2
at least use vpns if you're going to be this blatant about your daily cope thread discordsisters
What VPN would you recommend VPN schizo
you know you dont need to be inside a thread to answer right?
The problem is that the devs reached a point where they couldn't really find a way to make the boss fights harder for people who've been playing since demons souls. So they had to make the bosses 'cheat' or have stupid gimicks to make them hard.
It's laziness. All the bosses are using sekiro ai but they give you none of the tools to deal with sekiro bosses and you're just a regular ds3 guy
>make a game alongside and at the same time as Sekiro and AC6
>they are using Sekiro AI!!
made me laugh irl anon
Souls discussions are so weird. The western marketing making souls out to be a difficult experience has ruined the fanbase since the very beginning. Summons and spells are in the game for a reason and are part of the default difficulty. Considering Miyazaki himself says he's not terribly good at the games, they're certainly not balanced around sword-and-board self-challenge autism. If soulsbabbies actually played other games, they'd never fricking shut up about MonHun's bowguns.
>People who enjoy Elden Ring: [well reasoned argument based on logic and experience]
>People who don't enjoy Elden Ring: SHUT UP moron GO BACK have a nice day REEEEEEEEEE
Gee I wonder which side of the arugment is the people who play video games and which side is the discord anti-fromsoft homosexual squad.
I swear this is going to turn out just like the Scavs in Disco Elysium, all these numbnut morons all hooting slogans being piped into their heads by one Actishitzard community manager or some shit.
Literal fricking Anti-jannies, shitting and pissing in their pants and doing it for free.
that's not a fair criticism, i actually learned the bosses and am first trying them on my third playthrough atm
>er bosses are unreadable
Long way of saying you're bad.
Haha ya man WAOW i did it i beat this gmae i learned real skills and applied them i have grown as an person doing this and the best part? I did it the real way no guides or summons woah the self respect i feel is immense
>Now backsteps are bad
lol
I've never liked them much, especially in dark souls 2 when reactive backstep bullshit plagued the multiplayer
Dark Souls 2 backsteps are garbage because they break the game with their iframe bullshit and you can't reverse backstep
Reverse backstepping is fun I suppose z still a little pointless and mostly for showing off, but fun
>still a little pointless
not really, no
It mostly is, ravioli steps are very very situational and you're often just putting yourself at higher risk of counterattack to do something you view as highly skilled and stylish
The fact that you can reverse backstep shows how fricked ER's animations are tbh.
It shows how *good* they are actually.
>It mostly is
No, it isn't
>ravioli steps are very very situational
this doesn't mean bad, just that shitters can't pull it off
BB devolved into bland dodgestep r1 spam pretty fast.
I don't care about ER's PvP because it's a tedious slog, so I'll just take your word for it.
It means that it's of only a small level of benefit and consistency and that even as a "non shitter" you are likely getting just as much risk out of using it as you are benefit. You're basically proving to me that you use it as a way of making yourself feel good and skilled moreso than as a useful tool by just how you talk about it.
>pvp autism
Yawn
Why is there like 10 Elden Ring threads right now?
Hey real talk how many of you have sucked an penis before
I haven't sucked one yet
translation: i keep falling for margits delayed attack
Or the sub-6 frame swipes that can't be dodged reliably.
ER only needs to rely on delayed attacks as its only method of challenge as a crutch because the game is designed around the player having fast-rolls up to 70% equipload and near-infinite spammable rolls.
>waaaah i cant pay attention to the man holding his frick huge sword in the air for 5 seconds
>he belives thats the problem
how much do you get paid for shilling?
i need some extra income
it is a symptom of a larger problem, which is that the DaS3 and ER rely too heavily on rollspam. They made games where you just mash roll to i-frame through everything, which required them to go back and think of a way to actually add any challenge back in. And the only way to do that when the player can just rollspam everything is to have delayed attacks.
Delayed attacks in a vacuum are a good way to mix things up and add some spice. The issue is that with the rollspam movement of DaS3/ER, they become the ONLY way of adding difficulty, and thus it becomes an overused crutch.
>the only way to do that when the player can just rollspam everything is to have delayed attacks.
And input reading
tbqh input reading on its own isn't necessarily a bad thing. enemies *should* react to what you're doing in some way. The issue with ER's input reading is how blatant it is. Ideally the AI should react to what you're doing without making it LOOK like it's just reading inputs, even though at the end of the day it is. AI is an illusion at the end of the day, after all. It's important to maintain the illusion.
And ER's AI just doesn't cut it. Especially when you can easily see right through with enemies like Nox/Lions/Malenia perfectly dodging every ranged attack but then ALSO dodging when you cast delayed spells like Carian Glintblade, just to not react at all and eat a glintblade to the face when it fires off a few seconds later.
>The issue with ER's input reading is how blatant it is.
it's how blatant it is and how much ER relies on this trick. it's why people complain about that, the "hold an attack for 100 years stuff", the fact that enemies literally have 100% perfect 360 degree tracking on attacks, etc.
if Margit were just one boss that had all this stuff that'd be one thing but they ALL do it, even regular enemies, its dull
The moment I realized this shit isn't a cool knight simulator but instead about "dodge rolls in armor with iframes" the series sucked dick in my head.
Played DS1 as a sword and board homie and it was fun.
This rolling shit is gay as frick.
you can play as a homosexual in every game
dont let people like me who enjoy rolling stop you from being a coward hiding behin a shield and taking all hits because your reaction speed is that of a corpse
I like that Fromdrones have crafted this narrative that it's hard to rollspam than it is to stat-out a tank build and learn what can and can't be blocked reliably. It's the same morons who think STR builds are the hardest way to play the game when their weapons always cleave the boss in 3-4 hits and stun lock them into Phase 2 at ~20% health.
ER and DS3 have something like 70% iframe uptime, give me a break.
the elephant in the room is bloodborne ruining the series making everything this dodge dodge dodge dogshit anime homosexualry
you could do that in every soul game moron
Folks who defend shitty lazy game mechanics that are obnoxious in place of making something cool and fun because of a difficulty meme are pure morons
Souls games look amazing and have a cool aesthetic, but they only got popular by being a badly structured meme rather than having good gameplay
Current boss attempts with this thing
>Margit (with the normal greataxe from the carriage): 3
>Morne Misbegotten: 1
>Godrick: 1
>every tree avatar: 1
>Red Wolf: 1
>Rennala: 1
>Dragonkin Soldier: 2
>Mohg: I lost count (no tear)
>Both Ancestor Spirits: 1
>O'Niell: 1
>Crucible and Misbegotten Duo: 1
>Radahn: 2
>Caelid Godskin Apostle: 5
>Caelid Death Rite Bird: 3
>Caelid Black Blade Kindred: 4
>Gargoyle Duo: 1
>Spear Crucible Knight: 2 (I goofed)
>Fia's Champions: 1
>Crucible Duo: 1
>Godskin Noble: 1
>Golden Godfrey: 1
>Morgott: 1
>Rykard (not with axe): 1
>Niall: 1
This axe is fricking awesome. The godskin apostle felt hard because it did a lot of damage but was pretty easy to follow when I got used to it. I did mohg early cause I'm stubborn but it took over an hour with the axe at +7.
Really pisses me off how much hackazaki hates STR builds. The one fricking decent axe in the entire game and he makes it a goddamn DEX weapon.
I’ve been using it at heavy the entire time because it has a higher strength requirement
It actually scales better with DEX infusion though. Ideally you just get minimum STR to wield and go full DEX after that. Same with Zwei.
Holy Cow... Ok I'll respec, I am currently combining it with Vyke's Dragonbolt because it makes me look really cool so it'll make more sense anyway since lightning seemed more dex than str.
Damn I look cool as frick...
I love the new red lightning effects
Just use the Longhaft Axe, it's better anyway.
That's the one that the orcs use, right? IIRC that one just has the standard shitty greataxe moveset that's all just slightly different vertical cuts. Crescent axe is the only non-shit greataxe because its moveset actually includes horizontal sweeps to mix things up.
It has a horizontal sweep on R2 into a vertical overhead that usually hits the head hitbox for more damage. It's Hyperarmor is also better than almost every other weapon in the game.
I used it some before the crescent but I just liked the crescent R2 for the duck and the spin. Also to the other anon, Godrick’s axe has the Crescent R2 as well. Of course it’s the weapon of the silliest demigod, but the ash is pretty good actually. At +10 it’s all C’s but it reaches C in str before dex so it has a bit more in that.
The scaling damage in ER doesn't matter. You get something like 15% increase over base weapon damage by pouring in around 20 levels.
>one decent axe
homie what? plenty of great options with a STR build
i'm lazy to count how many attempts each boss takes
what is this thread
Shitters vs. Guys who are gods at the bosses
If you are like everyone else who thought the game was perfectly difficult and got through everything reasonably well even with a big struggle here or there, move along. This thread will rot you. If you have any minicar criticisms with the game you’ll start another war where it’s just morons calling each other Black person with the power of Webm for Bakas.
Elden drones getting destroyed ITT
anons what the frick is wrong with you that "no delay" moron is just fricking with you all
Replaying this and nah the bosses are great. Only ones that kind of suck are Godskin ones but they aren't THAT bad.
>he is still samegayging
>even to old posts
>1 post per minute
lmao shazamtroon
>
>for elden ring make bosses annoying and unreadable requiring me to hail mary half the time, feel nothing when defeating them except relief that i dont have to deal with the annoying butthole anymore
The fact that people can beat this game without being hit once is proof that you're full of shit. It's not RNG. You're just bad at telling what move the boss is going to do.
I ain't gonna read the thread but I liked elden ring
>get enjoyment out memorizing movesets
I don't get enjoyment out of rote memorization. Anything that rewards memorization over intuition is bad design. Simple as.
Too bad you're objectively wrong and a troony.
>b-but muh fighters
Be quiet.
>Dude just posts a bunch of webms to show Elden Ring gameplay
>Utterly mindbreaks and destroys an entire discord worth of shitposting trannies
pretty based ngl
Nobody cares Fromhomosexual trannies. We won you lost. Cope about it and die mad
>unreadable
That’s just cope.