Tiberius wars thread

Holy shit that image flashed me back 20 years. That was in a magazine, yea? I recall seeing this in pc gamer or something similar.

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71XKEF0D8BL._AC_UF1000,1000_QL80_.gif

Remember when they rushed Renegade and still had so many schedule slips Westwood had Havoc personally come to their office and kick their ass?

They should have adopted the Valve "When it's done" mantra.

Renegade could have been better if the last few missions had less filler feel.

Actually every C&C game except maybe Red Alert 2 was rushed

C&C3's Nod campaign is mostly just factional infighting. Even when the Scrin show up they're not really a focus. Kane does want to capture one of the towers, which is the last Nod mission.

>They should have adopted the Valve "When it's done" mantra.
They did. Tiberian Sun was in development for 3 years before EA walked up to Westwood, slapped them in the face, and went Sierra Online on their asses over it.
Turns out, publishers don't like losing money on forever projects such as Half Life and Command and Conquer Tiberian Sun. Who knew?
>Actually every C&C game except maybe Red Alert 2 was rushed
No, only the first two games weren't rushed, plus maybe the two spinoff games that existed.
Red Alert 2 was so damn rushed that it actually used an older version of the TS engine and was made in under a year. You can see all sorts of things, from the intro cinematic still having unused units to the various CGI cinematics either having very obvious mistakes or outright using older versions of assets without going back to update them.

Way too much of Renegade gave a feeling like they didn't know what kind of FPS game they wanted so they stuck a bit of everything in and everything came out poorly.

The first three missions on their own were okay, the amount of extra details they stuck in Rescue and Retribution, the side paths, alternate and optional objectives, hell the little times you can listen in to nod soldiers b***hing to each other, that was a nice touch. And Armored Assault wasn't so bad other than the length of the mission and it's linearity.

The Volcano mission started off okay but was a letdown. The ship mission had a good MGS like commando feel and really felt like MGS2 Tanker but with Havoc even if the stealth aspects were much to be desired.

The game got messier the longer it went on though. That whole Village mission was an excuse plot that ultimately amounted to nothing because Havoc went on alone. The Mansion could have been a great MGS like mission meets the Mansion infiltration of Frontline but ultimately outside of taking out the alarms stealth meant nothing because the only gun with any silencing was the sniper rifle.

Then going through the village again as an excuse plot, like GDI couldn't send a single Orca to take out the Obelisk?

Then the whole Tech Center infiltration mission that starts off okay but eventually turns into Half-life in the next mission, And then Mobius thinks he's Gordon Freeman from Freeman's mind and leeroy Jenkins into everything.

Dismantling the Nod Base all by yourself was beyond the scope of realism at that point and you should have had GDI allies in that mission instead of a single Mammoth that just sits around the entrance.

And the Temple mission was too much of a "Quick Save every 5 seconds" because the first 20 seconds of the level will kill you 15 times.

The Pistol doesn't count because it's just the token starter back up weapon, though it is pretty useful if you can use it for headshots. And you're kind of right, the sniper rifle can be heard if it's fired next to a Nod unit but against distant enemies it'll actually catch Nod units off guard when it's used.

Another funny thing about the sniper rifle that people forget is that it comes with a built in directional mic, and there's several locations in the game where you can use the sniper rifle to listen in on Nod units. Mostly in early game. There's even a tactical reason because there's lines of dialogue that will expand the plot if you use it right. It can also be used to locate Nod officers because if you take out a bunch of units you can listen in for the officers calling for reinforcements.

There's one funny scene in the second mission where you can listen in on a Nod Engineer and Infantry man complaining to each other about the civilians Nod kidnapped.

The funny part is that if you shoot the engineer mid sentence the Nod soldier will actually get pissed at you for killing him.

There's even a few points where the plot expands like in the same mission there's a group of Noddies complaining about the mission only for their CO to chew them out because he doesn't want to get in trouble with the Black Hand.

Thanks for confirming.

Yes, my theory is that, like you said, the sniperrifle having a directional Mic was a hold over from when the game was supposed to be a MGS3 like game, likely taking the idea from the directional Mic in Snake Eater. Considering the Commando's canon weapon is the sniperrifle it made sense to put it on the weapon he was supposed to use most often. If part of the goal was to sneak by concentration of Nod units and pick off isolated guards to advance through the level then sticking it on the sniperrifle makes it key, HavocLogan could simply listen ahead and find the Nod soldier alone that's a hole in the line.

I can believe it about the ship mission especially the entire level feels like a different game, more like MGS2 than Frontline.

I can clearly see the EA frontline meddling now that you pointed it out, the entire village sequence felt like something out of Frontline.

The mansion mission being untouched I could see EA simply glossing over it because Frontline had a mansion infiltration Mission.

As for the Volcano Island, that was clearly a filler mission from the beginning and it's completely unrelated to the plot anyway, the only purpose the island serves is as a way for Havoc to get from the Nod plane to the ship.

Really I'm thinking that with the game redesign Westwood had a problem in that there was no place to stick the ship mission in the plot because storyline wise you could simply skip from the mountain to the village. But Westwood had worked so hard on the ship they had to find some excuse to use it, so they took the Volcano shell map, slapped a mission on it and used it to push the plot so Havoc could get on the ship.

Which I'm glad they did because the ship mission is one of the better ones in the game.

There were a few nice things on the on the way, the old WW2 bomber which I remember had a gun in the concept art. Or that mine shaft full of tiberium which if you took would let you skip one whole corner of the map and take you out behind the giant Iowa class battleship turret Nod somehow got ahold of to make shore defense gun.

It was nice that the game would reward you for taking side paths and alternate paths if you were willing to take the risk.

Ah never mind, I don't think it was gameplay footage just pic related.

The Multiplayer was great. I loved it, loved Renegade X too before I lost interest in it.

That's the inside panel of the big box release of Generals.
Notice how GLA is STILL depicted as red here, and the old scorpion tank exists. LMAO.

The Tiberian Sun box had the Mammoth tanks fighting in the snow old art on the back of them.

Westwood was bad about putting their concept art on the box.

Don't know, might try and get Generals and Tiberium Wars reinstalled so I can replay the mods now that you've brought up the MEC mods.

>To be fair Westwood would still have been considered a Nevada dev team at that time.

That's even worse. How do you mess up those details in a state that's gun crazy?

Heck if I know, Westwood was originally stationed in Las Vegas if that has any bearing to it.

>"Cain is Kane... some-fricking-how"
end of Tiberian Dawn's GDI campaign. Kane is Cain

It's not that much harder on vanilla save for the fact that you can't use an Orca Rig to set up a position as quickly and the unit pathing seems substantially worse. You just have to use a surveyor to set up a factory outside the base to help keep pressure on. Otherwise it's the same deal of Mammoths + APCs with snipers in them and a few squads of zone troopers as back up.

First, you use rifleman sandbags since they're cheap and tough enough to let you forego normal base defenses and the AI doesn't use flamers to flush them out until you're battering down its door. You expand as quickly as you can to the northern field, before you even build the Tech center, and with two harvesters on each that should let you build up comfortably. Your attack force should be some mix of-
-4~6 mammoths (any more and pathfinding becomes unmanageable)
-4+ sniper APCs (Never give them attack orders as they'll try to close into gun range)
-A gaggle of zone troopers (really only one or two squads more than what you start with should suffice. Upgrading their health is optional but a good idea). These guys are your backup to help cover a retreat or to split off from your mammoth/APC ball to hit objectives. Only use their jet to escape trouble as they all jump to the same area and will die to any AoE if jumping aggressively.

>Grenadier APCs
That's a trap option in this mission that will cost you more than you gain. Your main obstacle is pathfinding in the city, and trying to maneuver the shorter range grenadiers into position will cause more traffic jams and you'll take more loses compared to Sniper APCs which will work as somewhat automated infantry deletion. They're also mostly redundant for clearing garrisons as the Mammoths with railguns can just smash any garrisoned structure before it does too much damage. Also useful to remember is that you can also stick missile squads into the rifleman sandbag garrisons.

My game version's on 1.9 (wouldn't be able to play TE otherwise), but I also just didn't bother touching the southern portion of the map at all which, if memory serves, is where garrisons are more of a problem. A single grenadier squad (in an APC, preferably) can clear them out if you are that concerned. You don't need more than one and then you can have your other units force fire the cleared building when they can.

>I'm assuming anons are just using the names "Forgotten" and "Forsaken"
*interchangeably when referring to the mutant shiners.

Yeah, dude.
Henskelion's same guy working on that Dorf RTS that's been talked about.

I think the time he spent reassessing his directives included him concluding his attempts to wipe out the human species were not going to succeed. So he came up with a new plan which would not require destroying the humans.

Yeah, those strategies would probably do the trick. I like to build a lot of infantry, but tanks kind of render them completely obsolete after a while.

Might buy the remaster soon. It's pretty cheap, and I like to give it a try again. Old rts games can be pretty comfy. Still regularly replay Warcraft 2 because of that.

armor
That's what Dozer Blades are for. They don't change armour type but they give like 300 HPs. Also Predators have exactly the same resistance values, there is no simple classification into infantry/light/medium/heavy/structure anymore.

Oh fugg. I'm moronic today. Although now that I refreshed what I know of the rules.ini, seems like Ticks are better. The warhead, "AP", has
>Verses=25%,65%,75%,100%,60%
which is "none", "wood", "light", "heavy" and "concrete, respectively. Ticks change their armour type to concrete when deployed. Both 90mm and 120mm have AP warhead.
Ticks have 36 raw damage, Titans 70. Same range so it really depends on how much exactly the ROF (50 vs. 80) translates into shots per, say, second.

Though there's something funny nod using what is likely the Royal Ordnance L7 in wars.

That's a tank cannon from the 1950s.

Maybe it's some commie standard?

Though there's something funny nod using what is likely the Royal Ordnance L7 in wars.

That's a tank cannon from the 1950s.

You mean chambered in 5.56. And it was clear they were trying to create some kind of fictional next generation rifle over the existing M16. Surprised they didn't just go with the G11

And I forgot destructible terrain opening up new paths. And probably a few other things. Which I probably just take for granted in games belonging to the genre now.

>and usually when people mod it they just let guardian GIs and flak troopers be able to garrison.
With the right placing a bunker full of tesla troopers can be very effective. Initiates and viruses too, if you can manage to get the tech combo.

>I want to say that jump jet infantry wouldn't need to garrison for shelter
I have explicitly mentioned the RoF and range bonuses units get from being garrisoned.

I was only explaining why I have been expecting for that to be very powerful. The starting point of this particular conversation was elements from RA2 that you consider would have been good fit for C&C2.
I'm not sure it is really necessary but might have been okay for some Firestorm maps because there GDI at least has the generally bad juggernauts which have great range. Otherwise garrisoning even with basic infantry would change the dynamics of most maps, including campaign maps, completely. Even if you make, say, flame tanks dedicated garrison cleaners they will simply never manoeuvre into position in time to fire even once before being blown up, even if you move them underground. And then concrete exists too.