Till this day nobody gave me a valid to reason to why a predictable gimmick shitmon was banned.
He has so many weakness, slow and a lot of obvious counters. nobody wanted to exploit his weaknesses for some odd reason.
Till this day nobody gave me a valid to reason to why a predictable gimmick shitmon was banned.
I'll give you the reason you expected to get when creating this thread:
Smogon bad, don't know how to play their game, if it was you anonymous playing you'd BTFO them all
honestly with Dracovish it was understandable
but this little shit here? it just ain't THAT good
Just watch this
I'm not giving you views. Summarize that video in 10 words or less
not him but basically G-darm can one shot even legendary uber walls since its numbers get so fricking high with two bands
Has an answer to any would be counter/check and can't even be stopped by stall because it could just use a choice band, imagine having to choose to sacrifice a pokemon every time Gdarm is about to attack since nothing could switch in safely into it, not only that but it could also just U-turn out and give a free turn to a teammate to setup or something like that;
>can't even be stopped by stall because it could just use a choice band
Wrong, stall will use Protect to scout its move, then switch to the appropriate resist. Banded Gdarn was ONLY good as a balance breaker, if it was lucky enough to take out something like Clefable in one hit when the balance player thought Clef couldn't be 2HKO by scarf.
The only mon that was powerful enough to break stall without any setup whatsoever was banded Dracovish.
And if Gdarm chooses to go for an U-turn? That Protect would end up being for nothing.
>And if Gdarm chooses to go for an U-turn?
Against what?
>Toxapex
Gets poisoned and pex gets a free Knock Off on anything that comes in.
>Chansey, Clefable
Recover, set rocks or Teleport out
>Ferrothorn
stays in and does whatever, gives chip damage with barbs + rocky helmet or recovers with leech seed from the incoming switch
U-Turn is only good on the scarf set It's stupid risky to use on the band set because Adamant is needed for the wallbreaking power and Garm only has effective 82 base speed without a +speed nature.
Banded Garm is better against stall than scarf is, but SD Lando-T is better overall if you can break through Corviknight, which is the entire point behind the garm: a balance breaker to snipe a key defensive mon.
>Toxapex
>Gets poisoned and pex gets a free Knock Off on anything that comes in.
You don't even know what Pex's ability is. Outright proof that none of you morons actually play the game.
He is talking about baneful bunker you moron
>You don't even know what Pex's ability is
You serious?
what?
Anything. That's the point of U-turn, to allow a pokemon to give it's teammate a free switch in on the same turn, and since nothing is immune to Bug U-turn is always reliable.
>he unironically thinks U-turn is used for damage
Even if Gdarm takes chip damage from Ferrothorn is doesn't matter since Ferro will be forced to switch out anyway on the next turn after darm u-turns into something that can threathen it.
Double banded neutral uturn is still noticeable damage against pex who has no instant recovery too
>pex
Ferrothorn I meant. Pex has moronic instant recovery
>It doesn't matter
>Gdarm takes 25% from SR on first switch in AND Ferro helmet damage
Once Ferro switches out that player comes out WAY better in that exchange. G darm basically stops working once it gets hit.
Ok so you predicted 1 turn correctly and managed to punish darmanitan's U-turn, what about the next turn? And the next? You think darmanitan is just gonna spam U-turn the whole game?
>What about the next turn
Garm's biggest flaw is that it can't freely switch in unless you make a really good prediction cause it's frail. In other words if you force it out then your opponent has to use alternative methods to get it in. Stuff like priority can still threaten it even if it does come in and will be forced to hard swap in that scenario, Not to mention the number of mons that can simply eat a hit and KO it back.
No, Garm works just the same at 100% health as any other hp value. It's not Talonflame. If you mean it's vulnerable to revenge kills, sure. But you need priority or to outspeed it, which is the same issue regardless of HP.
>use Protect
>Garm uses U-turn
>switch to a Pokemon that resists U-turn or can punish it (i.e. Rocky Helmet Ferrothorn)
>Garm still U-turns and switches, but damage is minimized, functionally the same as any much weaker Pokemon using U-turn
didnt click
If a pokémon changes the meta the Smogon "elite" like it gets banned. Simple as that.
I'm sure they gave you valid reasons, you just didn't like them
After Gorilla Tactics, Darmanitan-G gets 568.5 Atk, which is around Base 234 Atk.
And because of Gorilla Tactics not adding any additional downsides to Choice Items, it can either choose to have Choice Scarf where it outspeed Base 166s or doubles down to get a 2.25x boost to Atk with Choice Band.
It would probably be UU if Gorrila Tactics was nerfed to ignore Choice Items, but because it doesn’t ignore Choice Items, it has broken stats.
Not that hard to counter though.
Name some hard counters then.
>you must use this arbitrary version of a term that I can twist to say you're wrong
Can't even name 1. Sad. Rotom-H for what it's worth.
Not even an actual counter, Rock Slide would probably be on over half of Darm sets. Toxapex is in a similar boat where it can come in on almost anything, but is OHKO'd by banded EQ. It's pretty much a 50/50 what mon can actually check Darm and even then a lot of switchins are eating like 30-40% on a resist. It's just pretty absurd to have a mon that can choose to either invalidate every Pokemon below the 95 base speed tier when banded or invalidate every non-stallmon below 95 +1 when scarfed.
Don't forget that anything slower than it also has to get through 20% flinch chance.
If it's so easy to counter you could at least name a check then moron.
>there are counters
>ok name them
>um I'm not going to
Embarrassing
>name counters
>NOOOOO THEY DON'T COUNT BECAUSE ... THEY JUST DONT OKAY.
So why haven’t you named a single counter?
There's no point to playing that game, Smogon players fluidly and regularly swap between their own assertion of what a "counter" is and the actual definition within the same paragraph.
No, Smogon players absolutely have a hard definition of what a counter is as well as a check. You morons just think that protect and hazards are counters.
and even then, we should abandon the idea of "x has no counters, therefore broken" or "x has counters, therefore not broken", there are many mons with no viable full counters that you can still play around, while there are mons with known counters that just warp the metagame so much/make the meta so stale/or just straight up are too good for the tier, and therefore often get voted to Ubers.
Dracovish has clear counters, doesn't make it in any way balanced and absolutely no player would ever oppose to banning it
>and even then, we should abandon the idea of "x has no counters, therefore broken"
That was never an attitude until Gen 8 when Smogon desperately wanted a reason to ban Dracovish with fricking 8% use rate.
Read "mon has counters therefore not broken"
Of all stuff they banned, you complain about fricking Dracovish, and mention ladder usage as if that mattered
>switch in your water absorb user
>gets torn apart by outrage
Nice counters
All the bulky water immune mons can shrug off outrage and either heal through it or give a free switch into a fairy that will set up on dracovish. Dracovish literally only wants to spam rain boosted fishious rends
>Dracovish has clear counters, doesn't make it in any way balanced and absolutely no player would ever oppose to banning it
Anon, were you even in these threads during the Vish suspect test?
There was endless seething about it and people saying "b-bro just use Seismitoad!"
Ironically if a mon is so important to counter that it absolutely necessitates you sacrifice a teamslot for it then it's probably worth the ban
Absolutely moronic post
please be trolling
Embarrassing
These are the people complaining about muh fanfic meta. Truly not worth entertaining
hahahahaha
Go back playing your fortnite shit or something
based and truthpilled
smogontrannies are seething, coping, and dilating because he got it absolutely right.
Jellicent curse body, any pokemon with will-o-wisp, the majority of fighting types, a strong fire, steel and rock move.
Not a single one of those things are counter. Checks at most and a few a revenge killers not even checks.
Jellicent statistical was the best switch in for it.
Its a good check yes but not a counter.
>252 Atk Choice Band Gorilla Tactics Darmanitan-Galar Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Jellicent: 233-275 (57.6 - 68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
destiny bond quicklaw. if you're confident enough it will work when you need it
Jellicent tries to burn the pokemon and have leftover and recover. Gdarm don't have answer to being burned.
Who was number 1?
Probably pex, lando, or sword dog if it wasn't banned yet
It was Dragapult. Lando only became number 1 after the DLC.
I just realized.
Statistical why is Lando-t not ban for being over centralized? Dragapult and G-Darm was at least closed in usage.
Lando is literally double the usage of #2 in 4 different generations and the community find this acceptable.
The smogon council spent too much money on cum stain resistant lando t fursuits
Ubers is not usage based, it and AG are the land of too strong for OU. Lando is great at the things it can do but there are plenty of ways to deal with it. Quite a few already common OU pokemon wall it, hyper offence can revenge kill it easy because it’s speed isn’t great. The pokemon you bring to deal with it serve another purpose, not just “deal with Lando”. It’s usage is more about it being good in the current meta, not overpowered
>current meta
I didn't realize half of the entire time pokemon has existed is current
>The Smogon tiering system is built on the assumption more powerful mons are more common; thus a mon that is picked all the time can't be used in "lower tiers" with weaker Pokemon, decided through the tier system as which is picked less
>Something that is OU is thus de facto banned from UU
>This happens purely based on usage stats, with no bias involved
>But mons can also be banned from UU outside this system anyway if they just don't like the natural meta that arises out of teams built from underused mons
>Ubers is just the ban list, except there is also a ban list for the ban list so it is fundamentally just another tier above OU
>Despite this you can never rise to ubers through usage
The entire Smogon system is fricking moronic
Ubers was created long before AG was, and Ubers itself is supposed to be “what if you could play with those overpowered legendaries with some standard rules”, and not a usage tier.
You also need to be used a lot in Ubers.
Rising in tiers also based on that tier’s usage, so if Ubers was usage based, almost nothing would really change.
>Ubers itself is supposed to be “what if you could play with those overpowered legendaries with some standard rules
Nice fricking revisionist history, ubers was the ban list until they decided they didn't like megafug dominating it too much so it became a pseudo tier.
Because Ubers was considered just a banlist, not a metagame on the earlier days.
You ESL or something? That’s what I said. Ubers was just a ban list until they decided to make it a tier with the introduction of “Ubers bans”
Well except for the fact that Ubers is a tier above OU and actually has a metagame.
There is a difference between being good and being overcentralizing.
Landorus-T is good, but you’re not forced to use it nor build some terrible team to account for it.
>half of all OU teams have lando t
Ahhhh yes, what a healthy meta. Not skewed in favor of something whatsoever
Correct. It is a pretty healthy metagame. And Landorus-T is a great example of a good and balanced mon.
>This is basically just an assertion that a support mon can never be OP no matter what
they REALLY can’t be OP as support. You would need something on par with Lugia tier bulk or being a trapper like Gothitelle to be considered ban worth.
All Landorus-T does on defensive sets is Stealth Rock, be immune to electric attacks, and tank some pretty good hits.
It’s not overly bulky or has some overpowered effect like trapping.
Well you guys can do whatever you want obviously but I think balancing your metagame from the perspective "only offensive sweepers can be OP" is really artificial. Like you guys talk about how many "counters" a Pokemon has but what about the opposite? How many mons can safely come in on Toxapex and force it out?
>I think balancing your metagame from the perspective "only offensive sweepers can be OP" is really artificial.
Because pwoer creep is so high you idiot. there are no real walls or tanks that warrant a ban. Toxapex kills momentum so if it can't do what is needed or gets forced out by you, you have the control of the match tempo.
>There are no real walls that warrant a ban
I'd argue blissey warrants one, It's a mon that almost single handedly makes almost every special attacker irrelevant in a game until you get rid of it. Not to mention it can effectively pivot thanks to teleport, Can set up rocks, Cripple you with Twave, Only 1 weaknes, Has natural cure which means you can't even cripple it with status or wear it down with entry hazards. Sure a good physical attacker can deal with it, But then you have 5 other mons which can easily deal with them.
Weak to taunt and knock-off, extremely passive, gets destroyed by trick and has to really watch out for physical moves
>Weak to knock off
knock off while very popular still doesn't deal with blissey entirely, Because blissey still has access to reliable recovery and natural cure ensuring it still has longevity in the event that it's boots are knocked off. This isn't a crucial flaw in blissey, It's closer to an inconvenience.
>Extremely Passive
Doesn't matter much when it's switching into most of your special attackers and proceeds to begin crippling your entire team with either thunder wave/Toxic or setting up rocks because most special attackers have no way to really pressure blissey. Or worse Blissey teleports into a pokemon with and gains massive momentum.
>Destroyed by trick
I'll use the same argument you used? Since Protect isn't considered a "counter" because Garm really is destroyed by the move, Are you gonna run 6 pokemon with trick just to beat 1 pokemon? At least when I mentioned protect it's a move that every pokemon gets. Meanwhile trick is a move with much more limited distribution. This also applies to taunt.
>Has to really watch out for physical moves.
Blissey can still sponge physical moves really well. Especially considering that Blissey's only real weakness is fighting. It has a combination of soft boiled to heal from that damage or it can teleport into a mon that can handle the situation better.
Protect isn't a counter because it does absolutely nothing on its own to force Garm out moron. It just slows it down for one turn and allows you to swap out for another Pokemon next turn. And then Garm can swap out too. If anything slowing down the game with Protect only allows the person using Garm more time to react to your obvious swap coming up. You still need something that actually threatens Garm instead of slowing it down so it can keep doing what it's already doing, this isn't rocket science. If your "counter" to a Pokemon is "let it run out of PP while still taking damage and ignore that it has teammates", you have a shit counter.
>Protect isn't a counter because it does absolutely nothing on its own to force Garm out moron
When you protect on Garm. You know the move it's going to use meaning you can easily force it to switch out by switching in one of the checks to Garm or in the case of EQ literally any flying types. You also are ignoring the fact that the other player has five other pokemon as well. Like you can make a risky prediction by switcing in a pokemon that's weak to the move betting on the fact that Garm will switch which gives you a distinct advantage. Sure it's slowing it down but then you add onto the massive amount of recoil it's going to be taking over the course of a game thanks to the combination of stealth rock and recoil from flare blitz, Plus rocky helmet and Rough skin/Iron barbs and you realize that Garm has a limited amount of opportunities to really wreck havoc. Garm can't switch in freely because of it's frail type and next to no defensive utility so basically you force your opponent to play with five pokemon unless they want to make a very risky prediction by sending in Garm.
>You still need something that actually threatens Garm
Rillaboom literally one shots Garm with grassy glide.
all of buzzwole, Melmetal and Corviknight can take a hit from Garm and one shot it back when combined with flare blitz recoil.
Urshifu RS is a good check because it can take a hit and OHKO in turn, Includes the band variant which is objectively inferior but still worth mentioning.
Regieleki also outspeeds and one shots Garm even with scarf.
Slowbro can take anything scarf throws at it and switch to heal the damage.
Tapu fini while shaky can still do a decent job of taking a couple of hits from Garm.
If you go down a tier all of Scizor, Mamoswine Both Rotom Wash and Heat, all do a decent job of checking garm, you could even argue that wash is a counter and it's not like rotom wash is the worst pokemon ever either. It still has utility outside of that role.
Then the things you said are the proposed counters you colossal moronic wienersucking homosexual, not Protect itself. If Protect countered Garm, literally anything could run Protect and shut it down. That is so painfully not the case.
>And then Garm can swap out too.
This is how you beat a Pokemon that loses 25% from Stealth Rock
This is basically just an assertion that a support mon can never be OP no matter what because they will always enable their team to do things rather than sweep themselves.
it requires you to run Jellicent which is dead weight
>hard counter to dracovish
>takes g darm hits np
>immune to body press corvi
>wisps your physical shitters
Jellicent was based. OU homosexuals are just scared of change
Draco crunches you and you die because it's running Strong Jaw
He's scarf locked, he ain't crunching shit
Its not a counter then
Just pick a steal or fire type this fricker is ice type are you moronic
Go frick yourself you fricking brain dead moron, no Steel or Fighting is counter because it has coverage for them, did you speed read the entire thread or you parents dropped you when you were a toddler?
>Fighting
Meant Fire, guess his moronation is contagious.
just use sturdy bro
>what is earthquake
>what is flare blitz
What is sturdy or sash
Scizor used bullet punch
Not a hard counter because it gets 2hko'd by EQ and OHKO'd by Flare Blitz, but close.
252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Darmanitan-Galar: 455-538 (129.6 - 153.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
>Gets one shotted by flare blitz on switch in
Nice counter bro.
Why would anybody switch into Scizor? This shitmon get easily OHKO. At this point you are a troll pretending to be stupid.
so your team is just 6 pokemon that counter g-darm?
I don't build a team around a shitmon, any OU and most UU pokemon with bullet punch, stone edge, flamethrower and more can easily take it down.
then post your team with 6 mons that counter g-darm
Okay. So how are you going to beat it whenever it comes out to revenge kill?
Also you’re forgetting that Darm has two abilities and if someone goes for sun-belly drum like a memer, you instantly lose in the game too
If it can't safely switch into Darm then it's not a counter. Darm will either just OHKO or severely chip it on the switch and then swap to avoid Bullet Punch with absolutely nothing lost for the Darm player. The Darm player now just needs to use any of his 5 other Pokemon to force Scizor out and get Darm back in and repeat the cycle until Scizor either gets chipped to death or predicted and OHKO'd on the switch, and then the Darm player automatically wins.
>If it can't safely switch in then it's not a counter
Ok what's a Weavile counter anon
Toxapex
>Swap to avoid Bullet punch
Scizor used u-turn, Scizor switched into Kyurem, Finch cries uncontrollably as Kyurem sweeps his now shitty team 6-0.
The reality you're choosing to ignore is that you're not just playing against Darm, you're playing against Darm and 5 other Pokemon.
And you're also ignoring the exact same premise. If Scizor "predicts" Garm switching out when it used a bad move against it. Then all it has to do is click U-turn. Remember that you aren't playing against just scizor. You're playing against Scizor and 5 other pokemon. In which case Garm isn't effortlessly switching in because it has no defensive utility.
>gdarm player predicts you staying in and using uturn
>you lose
Great strat
>Scizor is a shitmon
This is bullshit, Scizor is a great pokemon. It's got almost everything you could ask for, Good offensive, Good defensive typing, Good movepool including reliable recovery, Priority, STAB U-turn, Swords dance, knock off, It could function in numerous roles. There's a reason it was OU for 3 gens in a row and considered at the head of the pack in one of them. Calling scizor a shitmon shows you have no idea what you're talking about.
Snorlax was also OU for four gens in a row and singlehandedly defined the entire gen 2 metagame. Doesn't change the fact it's a totally unviable shitmon in modern gen 8 OU. Same goes for Scizor.
>It's got almost everything you could ask for,
Except stats.
Everything you said also applies to Nidoking. And with both mons they just have too low stats to cut it in OU for long anymore.
Gen 8 took a huge step forward by minmaxing EVERYTHING.
*teleports in your way*
You're correct, but the difference here is that Galar Darmanitar is an incredible Pokemon, Scizor is a shit Pokemon. Even if Scizor was a counter to Darm (it's not) every team being forced to run a shitmon like Scizor just to deal with it would inherently put them at a disadvantage. It's the same problem with everyone being forced to run Seismitoed just for Dracovish.
Weavile is a shitmon people are running to deal with Lando and Garchomp. Seismitoad was a shitmon people were running to deal with Dracovish and set rocks. Is the "meta" purely determined by what's been grandfathered in as acceptable?
>Weavile is a shitmon people are running to deal with Lando and Garchomp.
Weavile is arguably the single best Pokemon in OU right now, you have no idea what you're talking about.
>Seismitoad was a shitmon people were running to deal with Dracovish and set rocks.
Yes, and that's exactly why Dracovish was banned because forcing every team to run the same exact Pokemon that would otherwise be an NU shitmon just because it's the sole viable counter to the Pokemon that otherwise 2HKOs the entire tier is extraordinarily unhealthy for the metagame.
>Weavile is arguably the single best Pokemon in OU right now, you have no idea what you're talking about.
Because it matches up favorably against many of the most common mons lmao. Weavile has weakness to 3 separate types of priority and no bulk AND a 4x weakness. You talk about being "forced" to run Seismitoad, you think people enjoy making their teams and going
>Ok what Pokemon can switch in on Toxapex and not risk a burn and kill it
Because that list is just as tiny as the mons that can force Dracovish/Gdarm out
>Because it matches up favorably against many of the most common mons lmao.
Yes, many of them. Not literally a single Pokemon like Seismitoad. Weavile is in OU because it's actually good, Seismitoad was in OU because it happened to be the least shitty of the small handful of Water Absorb Pokemon.
>You talk about being "forced" to run Seismitoad, you think people enjoy making their teams and going
>Ok what Pokemon can switch in on Toxapex and not risk a burn and kill it
>Because that list is just as tiny as the mons that can force Dracovish/Gdarm out
Lele, Koko, Zapdos, Magnezone, G-Slowking. Fini, Heatran. And unlike the small list of true counters to Dracovish and G-Darm these are all actually good Pokemon you'd want to put on your teams regardless of whether or not Toxapex existed. Seismitoad is a shitmon which is why you never see it in OU now that Dracovish is gone.
>Remove mons main purpose in the meta
>It gets replaced with other mons
Ban Lando and chomp and nobody will use Weavile anymore either
>I know nothing about OU
I could tell
>seismetoad is shit because of usage!
>NOOOOO IGNORE LANDOS USEAGE. HE ISNT THAT GOOD!
Let me know when you have an actual argument
Let me know when you're not a hypocrite homosexual
Humor me
Why do people choose Weavile for their teams?
good offensive typing, good speed tier, good attack tier, priority move and is good against the Rillaboom, Garchomp, Landorus, Tapu Lele etc
>people use weavile as more than just an answer to lando and garchomp
>Oh really? Like what?
>.....well it's good against lando and a garchomp
KEK
>ignores literally everything else
Anon...
Ice Shard good priority move
50/50 is it Band or Scarf?
obviously breaks Lando and Rilla
Knock Off busted
It’s like Darkrai but with a 120 BP STAB that hits Fairy and Fighting neutrally, 97.5 BP STAB that removes items, priority, and isn’t cucked by Blissey/Chansey. The only thing holding it back is its weakness to Rocks.
>Factoring in STAB to make it sound more impressive than it is
I seriously hope you guys don't do this
in STAB to make it sound more impressive than it is
Yeah, that because it is.
Focus Blast has the same BP as Triple Axel, but STAB makes it so that Triple Axel is effectively 180 BP, and while Dark Pulse is consistantly stronger thank Knock Off, Knock Off has better utility.
252 SpA Darkrai Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking: 182-216 (46.1 - 54.8%) -- 55.9% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Weavile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 204-240 (51.7 - 60.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Darkrai Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking: 45-54 (11.4 - 13.7%) -- possible 8HKO
252 Atk Weavile Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 63-75 (15.9 - 19%) -- approx. possible 6HKO
Darkrai can freely run Life Orb, but Weavile plays around in OU.
Your mistake is not thinking Darkrai is OK because Weavile is in OU, but presuming that Weavile is acceptable in OU now.
Weavile is outright better than Darkrai now thanks to boots. The Ice STAB more than makes up for the LO which was only ever used on Darkrai to beef up its coverage damage. Weavile hits everything for at least neutral except Tapu Fini and Azumarill.
>Your mistake is not thinking Darkrai is OK because Weavile is in OU, but presuming that Weavile is acceptable in OU now. Weavile is outright better than Darkrai now thanks to boots.
No. Darkrai is generally better even if Weavile theoretically hits better and has natural utility.
Darkrai is weaker if you have the same/mirrored item, but practically Weavile has to run Heavy Duty Boots. Darkrai being able to use Life Orb is a huge bonus for Darkrai. Additionally, Darkrai still has Hypnosis and is way bulkier in both stats and typing. Darkrai has enough bulk to be able to switch into Ferrothorn and threaten it with either Focus Blast or Hypnosis. If Weavile got boots knocked off and switched into Ferrothorn (or is using Choice Band), it has a pretty high chance to be KO’d after KnOff and Power Whip, not to mention Gyro Ball and Body Press. Darkrai also at most takes little more than half from Bullet Punch while uninvested Scizor Bullet Punches nearly OHKO Weavile.
>Darkrai is weaker if you have the same/mirrored item, but practically Weavile has to run Heavy Duty Boots.
>252 SpA Life Orb Darkrai Thunder vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Tornadus-Therian: 351-413 (117 - 137.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
>252 Atk Weavile Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Tornadus-Therian: 456-540 (152 - 180%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Accuracy is about the same (70% versus 72%), but Darkrai also loses HP here. You are seriously underestimating the differences here, Weavile v. Darkrai is a trade of a LO for an additional offensive typing.
>Additionally, Darkrai still has Hypnosis
lmao
Hypnosis and its 60% accuracy is just Smogon cope for the Dark Void nerf. They don't know how to play Darkrai any other way than sleep + setup, just like every Spore user.
Sleep isn't necessary for something like Naganadel to wreak havoc. But Darkrai isn't Naganadel, it's just a 600 BST version of Gengar.
>Darkrai has enough bulk to be able to switch into Ferrothorn and threaten it with either Focus Blast or Hypnosis.
>252+ Def Ferrothorn Body Press vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Darkrai: 212-250 (75.1 - 88.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
>252 SpA Life Orb Darkrai Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Ferrothorn: 309-364 (87.7 - 103.4%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
not a counter and barely a check
>Accuracy is about the same (70% versus 72%), but Darkrai also loses HP here. You are seriously underestimating the differences here, Weavile v. Darkrai is a trade of a LO for an additional offensive typing.
It’s not just a trade for life orb, it’s a trade for any item. Darkrai is free to use what ever item is please while Weavile has to run HDBs because it’s part Ice and would need support otherwise.
> lmao. Hypnosis and its 60% accuracy is just Smogon cope for the Dark Void nerf. They don't know how to play Darkrai any other way than sleep + setup, just like every Spore user. Sleep isn't necessary for something like Naganadel to wreak havoc. But Darkrai isn't Naganadel, it's just a 600 BST version of Gengar.
Is that a supposed to be a downside? It’s currently worse off due to the Dark Void nerf, but 60% to just shut down a Pokemon for multiple turns while chipping at them naturally+Nasty Plotting is still a pretty big deal
>not a counter [to Ferrothorn] and barely a check
That’s not the point. The point is that Darkrai’s bulk is enough so that it can withstand moderate hits. It’s something the opponent has to consider more since Darkrai is more often a viable switch in or revenge killer because it can tank at least 1 or 2 hits more often, while Weavile has to look for something like Freeze Dry from Alolan Ninetales and Toxapex’s Scald if Misty Terrain is up or you’re feeling lucky.
Sure, you can use Teleport users to aliviate the issue, but you limit your game by game options and Weavile doesn’t OHKO everything so you need some chip and possibly doing this multiple times.
This isn’t to undermine Weavile, but the fact that it’s being compared to a weaker Darkrai shows how great Weavile is.
> Darkrai is free to use what ever item is please while Weavile has to run HDBs because it’s part Ice and would need support otherwise.
Darkrai's best item is LO where it can make use of NP and its coverage. Every other item is objectively inferior. Specs Dark Pulse is inferior to both Ash-Gren and Hoopa-U as anti-offense or a wallbreaker.
Weavile has more flexibility if you can keep SR off, because its attacks are more spammable and don't rely on prediction or sub 90% accuracy.
>but 60% to just shut down a Pokemon for multiple turns while chipping at them naturally+Nasty Plotting is still a pretty big deal
No, you are moronic. Hypnosis is shit and so is Darkrai in Ubers.
>The point is that Darkrai’s bulk is enough so that it can withstand moderate hits.
I'm not so sure that's true anymore in the SWSH meta where everything is minmax.
>252+ Atk Choice Band Rillaboom Grassy Glide vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Darkrai in Grassy Terrain: 261-307 (92.5 - 108.8%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
>-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Rillaboom Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 164+ Def Landorus-Therian in Grassy Terrain: 228-268 (59.6 - 70.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
The game has move forward to the point that even Lando-T's bulk is thinner than in past metas. Darkrai isn't frail in OU, but that and its speed is literally its only advantages.
Meanwhile, Weavile is so much better in basically every respect despite basically having no ability and no item slot.
>Weavile is a shitmon
It literally has good usage in Ubers and is one of the best in OU as well
>It has good usage in Ubers
Because Zygarde
>And OU
Because Lando and Garchomp
It's a NU shitmon without artificially OP mons inflating it's usage :^*~~)
>hard switches in Scizor on an already locked on Flare Blitz Garm
(You) are the moron here
Still has to avoid Flare Blitz and banded EQ under rocks OHKO's.
cope
Saying cope is the biggest cope of them all.
seethe.
It's ok, G-Darm is banned so you don't have to worry about it anymore. Go play with your bugs.
seethe and cope inside imaginary format
t.
You want a hard counter then, Fine, I'll give you a hard counter that every single pokemon can learn. Protect.
are you gonna run six protect?
because you can't switch in your protect mon and click protect in the same turn, anon
You told me to name a hard counter, I named a hard counter. This isn't rocket science. Plus Garm has more options than just that, Fini can check it, Urshifu single strike can do something similar. Sure they aren't reliable through the whole game but they can still do the Job. Especially if Garm is using a move they can easily punish. Not to mention if you have stealth rock on the field it's taking 25% each time it switches in, unless Garm runs heavy duty boots, But in that case it doesn't get the crucial speed from scarf which lends it to getting forced out by fast mons with super effective attacks. Garm is a great pokemon it's a good wallbreaker and a good Cleaner but it's got noticeable flaws and can be easily played around with things like rocky helmet(When adding on flare blitz recoil and stealth rock Garm is easy to whittle down) Even something like Corviknight could take advantage of that. Slowbro can probably take most things well even U-turn which regenerator can deal with comfortably. Plenty of options exist for Garm. It's not like Urshifu or Dracovish.
>You told me to name a hard counter, I named a hard counter. This isn't rocket science.
Protect isn’t a hard counter and only works if you have 6 Pokemon with protect.
The reason why Counter means a Pokemon able to consistantly switch into other Pokemon is because you’re playing against actual human beings. While thosw humans can make mistakes like you can, Darmanitan-G has an incredible advantage since you need to forgo 6 whole moves and your own Choiced users just to deal with it. If you don’t, then Darmanitan-G can force the Pokemon without protect to either be immediately killed or have a teammate immediately killed by it, then Darm has already done its job and can do it again.
Darm can also take advantage of 6 protect teams by using Belly Drum sets that are hard to stop (moreso because you decided to have 6 protect users).
if it can't switch in, it's not a counter
mons that are guaranteed a kill because there's nothing in the tier that can switch in once you send them out are what gets banned, since otherwise someone could just stack six mons with no switch ins and be all but guaranteed a win
I do agree that darm is banworthy, but you are forgetting that it's getting locked into a move after using it.
>Go shedinja!
Icicle Crash lol
shedninja isnt weak to ice
Shuckle
Wouldn't Heatran counter it?
Okay I just sent out G-Darm on you.
What do you do?
>SR -25%
>Takes further damage from attack on switch in (it’s a fricking ice type)
>Possibly lose my Mon if it can’t take hit, but G Darm is now neutered and choice locked
>I-I lost a whole team slot but it's okay because you're choice locked in even though there there is nothing stopping me from switching back out
Stealth rocks can be resolved with boots or having a good defogger.
You only lose something if you guess wrong. The idea every choice locked mon has to have a hard counter which can be switched in at no risk and is also on the arbitrary list of “generally good Pokemon” is nuSmogon aids
Except if you guess wrong, you’re still free to slam them with a 2+ icicle crash off of 130 attack or just 2+ u-turn out into an actual counter
>Flamethrower
idk why this was filtered, but yeah basically this. Didn't see it when I posted. Though I'd have posted anyway.
Because it counters almighty Landorus T
>finally get the best Lando-T counter ever
>gets banned almost immediately
feelsbadman
>252 Atk Landorus-Therian Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Darmanitan-Galar: 382-450 (108.8 - 128.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Play the game.
You aren't wrong, but most Lando-Ts run the defensive set which doesn't use Stone Edge. It counters defensive Lando but can only check SD Lando.
>Majority of Fighting Types
Only 2. Conkeldurr also has to run max HP to do so.
>You aren't wrong, but most Lando-Ts run the defensive set which doesn't use Stone Edge. It counters defensive Lando but can only check SD Lando.
0 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Darmanitan-Galar: 240-283 (68.3 - 80.6%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Darmanitan-G doesn’t directly switch into any form of Landorus. It’s a check only and if you get that 56.2% chance to love, Landorus-T is just going to switch out into something that can take an Icicle Crash and Darmanitan-G won’t be able to switch into literally anything.
It nuked Toxapex and Ferrothorn with its sheer wallbreaking power, thus it HAD to be removed instantly
Because you have to guess whether or not it's running Band or Scarf, and if you guess incorrectly, you lose.
>Wow he's really fast he most be scarf
>Wow he's did a lot damage he most be band
It's not that hard.
>>Wow he's did a lot damage he most be band
Man, it might be because it has Choice Band as an ability or something?
But really, you can’t tell until Darm-G uses an attack, and if he does, a Pokemon of yours is likely dead. And if the Pokemon was OHKO without CB anyways, then you can’t tell.
>you run a normal OU team
>lando vs lando turn 1 lmao
>trade rocks
>turn two their lando booms but you called it and for some stupid reason you run protect lando so now you are 6v5
>gdarm switches in
>what do you do?
252 Atk Choice Band Gorilla Tactics Darmanitan-Galar Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 276-326 (90.7 - 107.2%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
>252 Atk Choice Band Gorilla Tactics Darmanitan-Galar Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Corviknight: 464-548 (116 - 137%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Gorilla Tactics Darmanitan-Galar Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 164+ Def Landorus-Therian: 1104-1300 (289 - 340.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
>252 Atk Choice Band Gorilla Tactics Darmanitan-Galar Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 200 Def Clefable: 336-396 (85.2 - 100.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Gorilla Tactics Darmanitan-Galar Flare Blitz vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Melmetal: 456-538 (108.3 - 127.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
>b-but stupid predictions means gdarm won't win every match
true but running a 50-50 every time it switches in is fricking terrible
>what about recoil/hazards/rocky helmet etc?
thank god wishport was banned, but healing wish is a nice choice if you have a mon so fricking OP, HDB is also viable for a u turn spammer like gdarm and icicle crash can't be cheesed like urshifu's surging strikes by rocky helmet
>still, those OHKOs are just made by a choice band set that can be revenge'd by strong priority
again, true, but darm only needs to put pressure to attrack pseudo counters and u turn; it's not that hard to chip dangerous threats to gdarm
>it's a choice mon, if it can't 2HKO it dies
sub belly drum salac says hi
I'm not a smogon apologist, frick hdb, frick teleport, frick lando and frick pex; but gdarm deserved to be banned
>Just use stealth rocks and a water type bro
Why are the loudest people always the ones who play the game the lease?
Let me put it into simplistic terms since it seems you can't understand big paragraphs.
Garm checks and Counters
>Bulky waters like Slowbro/Tapu fini, Even Urshifu and keldeo can do the Job
>Passive damage like rocky helmet and stealth rock in combination with the recoil of flare blitz either require Garm to run HDB or it doesn't last very long. Ferrothorn in particular is good at this because with a combination of rocky helmet, Iron barbs and Recoil from flare blitz Garm's taking in excess of 50-70% meaning you limit it's switch in opportunities if stealth rocks are on the field
>Bulky fighting types, Which can take a hit and then proceed to hit back super effectively, Only option for Garm here is 1 switch via u-turn or 2 hope for the 30% flinch on icicle crash and also hope that icicle crash hits.
>Strong priority Like Scizor's technician bullet punch, Conkeldurr's Mach punch, Or even rillaboom's grassy glide(Banded OHKO's) allows Garm to be revenge killed.
>Heatran with an air balloon unless it runs inferior fighting type moves.
>Protect a move that let's you scout what move Garm is gonna use and allows you to switch to another mon that can handle said specific move.
fini switches into gdarm
>2hko after lefties recovery with EQ
slowbro switches into gdarm
>takes 70% with u turn
offensive urshifu switches into gdarm
>75% chance of ko with icicle
ferro or scizor switch into gdarm
>nuked by blitz, gdarm switches out and waits for a healing wish
nice counters you got there, also I love to see you consider gdarm has absolutely zero support for its teammates, webs, hazards, rapid spin and shit like that don't go one way
You think a counter is a pokemon who can survive a switch with no damage?
if your "counter" gets 2hko/ohko'd by darm how are you gonna counter it once it's on the field?
Because the counter is faster and can OHKO them. Is Rampardos and Slaking Uber for being able to 2hko the cast in a vacuum?
So the slowmon is faster than bullet punch and Mach punch? Last time I checked, it had priority.
So you're playing against bots that just never switch out and are running 1 pokemon instead of 6?
The point is that a bunch of pokemon can handle this stupid gorilla. Now this so call ban worthy pokemon is not strong enough and need to switch.
You've named like 2 monsters that can handle it in every situation (specifically Fini and Slowbro)
So every team now has to run 1 of these always to not instalose to darm?
A lot of pokemons have bullet punch, mach punch and other super effective moves and super resistant types.
Rotom heat can also handle it due to a combination of levitate and being fire/electric. And again Scizor beats Garm 9 times out of 10 unless the Garm player makes a good play. Freaking Rillaboom beats Garm as well. You're ignoring all the offensive checks while trying to point to the "lack of defensive answers" When Garm struggles with the move protect while allows you to easily pivot around it and I also brought up the residual damage garm is taking throughout the game. The fact you are specifically bringing up healing wish into this occasion shows that you clearly can see that Garm doesn't have much longevity. What Garm excels at is wallbreaking, It isn't destroying an entire team unless Finch wants to make a team that just so happens to be weak to Garm and Just so happens to get 6-0'd by it.
this is the kind of shit that makes me believe /vp/ actually doesn't play pokemon
>muh protect
option 1
>darm sub salacs, gg
option 2
>darm spams u turn, you may switch out, but take damage and darm is still healthy
option 3
>darm used eq on pex for example
>'oh, I know, I'll switch to my only eq inmune mon, landorus'
>you switch out, but you are playing against a human, so he switched out too
>suddenly lando vs urshifu water, surging strikes ignores intimidate, and it also has u turn, so it can bring back darm and repeat the same shit but now you have less HP
please, for the love of god, be trolling
>Option 1
1)Running an inferior set
2)Since it doesn't get gorilla tactic's boost means it's power is far less without belly drum
3)Can still be revenge killed by scarf pokemon with over 95 speed.
4)forget the little detail that the pokemon who just protected can easily break the sub with an attacking move. Allowing Garm-Zen to be finished off with priority.
>Option 2
U-turn itself is the problem, Only thing you can do in that situation is set up rocks and force it to U-turn into a rocky helmet mon to chip it overtime eventually it will go down because as has been discussed Garm is heavily prediction reliant by nature and it's a nuke that has a short shelf life. Either that or start with a priority mon like scizor or rillaboom and Force it out. Rillaboom also deserves special mention because it weakens Garm's EQ.
>Option 3
Prediction works both way's Oh his Garm used EQ he might think I'll switch into Landorus and might switch in Urshifu water but Instead I'll switch into Dragapult which is faster and can hit it hard and force it out.
>gdarm is already in
>scizor switches in
>scizor dies cause of flare blitz
>THEN it revenge kills
of course, how could i forget that scizor gets an attack after fainting? I'm sorry
an essy way to know if anything is a counter
>can X mon switch in safely regardless of the move it gets hit?
if so, maybe (time to see if it can actually hurt the opposite mon in return)
if it can't switch in, it's not a counter
>Gdarm is in
>you don't switch like an idiot
>pokemon faint ( assuming you didn't have a good pokemon from the beginning)
>use scizor
>bullet punch
Wow was that so hard. Also gdarm need to predict a flare blitz if you are stupid enough to switch.
a counter is a mon that doesn't get 2hko; every single mon on that list can't kill darmanitan after taking damage with a good prediction besides maybe, urshifu, and only if it's not only bulky, but switched in without hazards
nothing can switch safely besides extremely niche choices, and so, gdarm has no real counters
A counter is a Pokemon that either doesn't get 2HKO'd, or doesn't get OHKO'd and outspeeds.
And, of course, has the offensive presence to either KO the opponent or force a switch.
>fini switches into gdarm
252 Atk Gorilla Tactics Darmanitan-Galar Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 116+ Def Tapu Fini: 126-149 (36.6 - 43.3%) -- 99.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Not even max defense required plus can use draining kiss to heal some health.
>Slowbro switches into Garm
252 Atk Gorilla Tactics Darmanitan-Galar U-turn vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 164-194 (41.7 - 49.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
And then slowbro can easily heal that off with Regenerator or slack off.
>Offensive Urshifu switches into Garm
252 Atk Gorilla Tactics Darmanitan-Galar Icicle Crash vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Urshifu-Rapid-Strike: 110-129 (32.2 - 37.8%) -- 95.3% chance to 3HKO
Most ridiculous claim here, was saying that Urshifu would get OHKO'd by icicle crash nice job exposing yourself. I purposefully kept saying single strike because it's an uber, While the water form is in OU
>ferro or scizor switch into gdarm
Garm either 1 gets worn down heavily by ferro. Or two flat out OHKO'd by Scizor's bullet punch
This just proves that Garm is heavily prediction reliant and this unlike what you seem to think is actually healthy because a good prediction is proof of player 1 being better than player 2.
>no choice band
>252 Atk Choice Band Gorilla Tactics Darmanitan-Galar Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 116+ Def Tapu Fini: 189-223 (54.9 - 64.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
same for all the other calcs genius
And then any single pokemon with a higher base speed of 95 easily stomps over it. Which is a lot of pokemon. There's a reason scarf was ran far more often than banded. And even in the case it is banded Slowbro can still easily switch and gain some of that HP lost, Rapid strike can take anything Garm throws at it when banded and hit back first because it's faster now that Garm isn't scarf forcing it to switch. Sure fini isn't a solid answer anymore but it can still be easily switch into another move like flare blitz.
so you just have a whole team of base 95 or above pokemon?
>urshifu can take anything banded
>252 Atk Choice Band Gorilla Tactics Darmanitan-Galar Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Urshifu-Rapid-Strike: 258-304 (75.6 - 89.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
2 layers of spikes is all you need to convert your 'counter' into 'probably an ohko', and of course, why would banded darmanitan switch out after urshifu comes in? it's not like you are playing vs another human being or anything
The point is that you don't know which one it is.
You find out which set your opponent is running by getting one of your potential counters KO'd.
They banned Aegislash.
Then they complained Monke too strong
yeah aeglishlash just switching into all these flare blitz and earthquakes, such a counter
People probably started complaining they didn't know how to deal with it until they eventually banned it.
This is why smogon is shit and I ended up quitting it, just because something is annoying or the meta mons have trouble with something doesn't mean it's broken. God forbid something is able to break through stall meta.
>God forbid something is able to break through stall meta.
Gen 7 and 8 were ass for stall teams.
>fanfic meta
Because Monke is God
You need to predict its ability on the first turn it is out or it will simply sweep your team
>dude you can just switch to Jellicent! This is easily the best counter-
>As you switch it uses Belly Drum and turns into this
The only sensible way that this c**t shouldn't be banned is if the entire system was reworked and games were played in rounds rather than a single match. Otherwise enjoy your coin flip, don't worry you'll call it right next time!
That's literally a 5% chance of that happening.
It's a 5% chance to lose on the spot on top of the 50/50 nonsense you're playing with scarf versus band for the non-meme builds.
>50/50 nonsense you're playing with scarf versus band for the non-meme builds.
I laddered with band Darm during the dynamax suspect, it's incredibly hard to use properly and isn't strong enough to justify on its own.
>252+ Atk Choice Band Gorilla Tactics Darmanitan-Galar Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 318-375 (80.7 - 95.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Band requires
>bluffing scarf
>opponent switches to a scarf check that is cleanly KO'd by band
>opponent doesn't have a hard Darm check like Slowbro that reveals the band set
unlike scarf, band requires a lot of switches and needs to bluff scarf and steal a KO. and for a lot of physical walls, Darm simply lacks the muscle to OHKO outright. Buzzwole, Clefable, and Slowbro aren't KO by maximum power Icicle Crash. it's the very definition of high risk, middling reward.
if you have the balls to bluff scarf, zen mode sub/BD is better imo, provided you remove priority and toxapex.
so saying it's 50/50 is nonsense, it's more like 70/30 or 80/20 since scarf is just outright superior to both zen mode and band, and if you are a risk taker and pull off zen mode/band you should get some reward for predicting right
rock and steel type with sturdy. Solved all problems for you
>pebbles
Yes
>switch in your sturdy rock/steel
>it takes pebbles chip
>gets fricking deleted because pebbles broke sturdy
GG
rapid spin 🙂 ez
>rapid spin
>and sturdy
>AND rock or steel
Anon, Forretress gets outsped by GDarm and 2shot with Fire Punch, or 1 shot if it burns.
Just dodge the Icicle Crash
every good pokemon metagame should have a balance around prediction
darmanitan punishes missprediction way too hard for OU, which is why it's ok for it to be in ubers, but regenerator allows a shit ton of safe plays and questionable moves being unpunished without even being considered for a ban
Well, it sucks that G-Darmantan is banned from OU on Showdown, but I'm pretty sure it's just because Gorilla Tactics is like a built in choice item, so really all you need to do is Scarf him and he can shred through pretty much anything.
Maybe shouldn't be banned but it is actually pretty good in ubers. The belly drum + sub set is the stuff of nightmares
Because if you switch in a counter or check for the Gorilla Tactics set and it subs, you just lost if you don't have an unaware mon. Similarly, if you bring in a counter to Zen Mode and it gets fricked by a double choice band Flare Blitz or Icicle Crash, that's a huge problem.
Nope. The OU council has gone on record multiple times to say that Garm was banned just for GT/Icicle Crash and not Zen Mode. Their discord even said that it would have remained banned even if it had Sheer Force instead (since Sheer Force actually makes LO sets viable).
Darmanitan-Galar is one of the most overpowered mons to have ever touched OU, you have to be extremely moronic or casual to consider it just another "le choice locked easily exploitable mon"
Maybe it wouldn't have been that broken without U-turn, though
>threat to lando-t(ranny) gets introduced
>immediately banned
HMMMMMMM
Dont forget toxapex
Or all the offensive pokemon but you morons gotta push that agenda somehow.
Transsexual genie hands typed this post
Avalugg BTFOS landorus. Why didn’t it get banned yet?
>Introduced
Weavile has been raping Lando-T since day 1, this meme of Lando-T being somehow the Michael Corleone of OU is moronic.
>252 Atk Choice Band Landorus-Therian Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Weavile: 364-430 (105.8 - 125%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Nice counter fricking shitter
Damn... if only... Weavile vastly outsped Lando...
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Weavile Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 164+ Def Landorus-Therian: 432-508 (113 - 132.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
>Outspeed
Irrelevant on switch in
>Hurr I will just sac a mon to get Weavile in
Ok but it will just Uturn out and even if it didn't they bring in Toxapex and now you can't do shit
So...Lando can't switch in...Lando can't win the 1v1.
>Toxapex out of nowhere
yep, 1100 shitter rhetoric lol
That logic is pointless? Any mon can switch out whenever, that's why the Smogon "Counter" definition exists after all; a counter has to be able to switch in, take a hit, and force it out. Ergo Weavile does not counter Lando. Unless you want to admit that "counters" are not the end-all be all of balance, but then you'd need some kind of metric to go off of and you reject everything so...
>Schizoposting after exposing himself as a pointless calc moron
zZzZzZzZz...Keep pushing the Lando-T agenda, you and the other 1100 shitters
Counters aren't the end all be all of balance. But the presence of at least a handful of hard counters is a sign that the Pokemon isn't broken and is in fact managable. And if those checks and counters are perfectly viable in their own right without needing to resort to niche sets or drag a specific Pokemon out of a much lower tier to handle things it further cements that the Pokemon is just fine.
Just to list Nyando's checks and counters:
Slowbro
Rotom-W
Gastrodon
Urshifu-R
Barraskewda
Tapu-Fini (Scarf)
Skarmory
Corviknight
Tangrowth
Ferrothorn (against non-SD sets)
Rillaboom
Tapu Lele
Dragapult
Latios
Kyurem
Weavile
Nidoking
Slowking-G
There's enough Pokemon here that are completely viable in their own right that even if they don't hard counter every Nyando set most teams can at least bring an answer to it and it won't hurt their viability against other teams.
https://www.porydex.com/stats/2022-05/gen-8-ou/0/pokemon/weavile
No, Choice Band is definitely more popular.
>Checks AND counters
Nope, Dracovish and G darm have a lot of checks. Counters only please!
So Slowbro who only worries about Toxic because it's fat and has Regen and Ice Beam, then Skarmory and Corviknight which Nyando can't offensively threaten and force it to swap out. That's three.
inb4 Knock Off tho
252 Atk Landorus-Therian Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 156-184 (39.6 - 46.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
8 SpA Slowbro Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Landorus-Therian: 316-372 (99 - 116.6%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
Slowbro only has a small chance to not OHKO, any chip damage means a dead Nyando.
HDB is the most popular item, but Choice Band is still leagues above Life Orb in usage.
>Only 3 counters
lmao nice centralized game
>no argument
lmao nice cope
Bro there are 3 fricking counters even for G darmanitan and Dracovish
Name em
Literally anything with storm drain, water absorb, or dry skin can counter dracovish
i thought weavile run SD, knock off, triple axel, generic move (ice shard/poison jab) with HDB
Half of those literally can't switch into lando because they get 2HKOd or worse. You have maybe 4 or 5 actual counters there, and lando still trolls them with either uturn or knock off.
Just admit lando does too much and is over centralizing. I'm sure you smogon council homosexuals can still sodomize each other if lando is in ubers
This Lando-T agenda is full schizo posting from people that really never played the game
If the genies get cut in SV, are you homosexuals just going to ban the entire generation from play?
You should play the game for once to find out.
"Checks and counters". Checks are included in the list. Learn to read moron.
So there's only one really OU viable counter to Dracovish that couldn't do much back offensively. Damn. Now do Garm like I asked.
Your troony tiering system literally copes by saying lower tiered mons are only there by usage not power, so don't try to write off UU or lower counters like gastro, quagsire, etc
>Now do Garm like I asked.
Defensive arcanine
Conkeldur
Urshifu
Ferrothorn
Balloon heatran
>choice band
>weavile
Everyone runs life orb and you know it you lando worshipping homosexual
morono
It's funny you say that when they banned SS Urshifu for being hyper aggressive in a meta of staller pokemon. Because of its signature move to always crit and its ability to ignore protect. Seriously, this thing was such a threat to every staller that the Smogon gays banned it the moment people knew it could destroy them without a second thought.
SS Urshifu fricked over offense anon. Stop saying incorrect shit.
Urshifu-SS is bad against stall due to the low PP of its attacks. Stall is one of the few playstyles that can sponge banded Wicked Blow and CC's.
>it shouldn’t have been banned because you can switch x pokemon in and it will just sit there and take a beating because the other player is too stupid to build a team to support their ace mon
Tell me you don’t play at a meaningful level without telling me
Gorilla Tactics
Ice Punch
Metronome
Max Attack EVs
ITT: Competitive speds vs unironic morons vs baiting falseflaggers
We all lose this one.
every competitive thread in a nutshell, it really is pointless discussing this stuff with people that believe like usage equating brokeness
>Le everyone but me is bad
>slow
I know power creep is getting out of control, but come on.
It's 95 base speed. That's hardly slow. A powerful wallbreaker is good if it has like 70 speed, and it doesn't get much more powerful than GalDar. Then of course choice scarf exists, which has almost no downside with gorilla tactics.
>almost no
I has zero downsides when paired with Gorilla Tactics. It just boosts speed by 1.5x.
I mean nta but the "downside" is probably that you're not running Band for more DAMAEG but it's moronic way of thinking
The same community that banned kings rock because its rng
>people still think counter = able to OHKO
Learn what the term means you morons, a counter is someone that can SWITCH IN safely and THEN threathen the opponent with something, saying shit like Bullet Punch Scizor or whatever isn't a counter because it can't switch in safely in most situations.
This entire thread someone was claiming Full Team = Counter.
Gdarm wasn't suspect tested fairly. It was quickbanned by the council in the limited meta then never tested again.
This is the same meta that banned fricking Kyurem. You should complain to natdex about why they banned G-Darm and Mega Metagross. Reason being that high level teams only had Fini as a good defensive option s Fini is the only mon not weak to anything that Megagross, Darm and Ash-Greninja can use.
Exactly, the homosexual council banned him to protect their precious lando t
Why haven't they banned Corviknight then?
They couldn't ban two new mons without a proper test just to protect lando, smoggies would start to get suspicious
They don't usually ban defensive pokemon no matter how centralizing they can be. The only exceptions in recent times are Aegislash and Mega Sableye.
But Gdarm doesn't even counter lando, it was just another mon with an ice type attack that could threathen it, not like there aren't other ice type attack users in the tier who couldn't do that already
G-Darm is still too fricking strong for the current meta, it's doing well for itself even in Ubers
>G-Darm is still too fricking strong for the current meta
I don't care about the shitty dexit meta, but in IoA natdex you had a monoformat consisting of:
>Tapu Fini
>Ash-Gren
>Mega Metagross
>Darmanitan-Galar
>Urshifu-SS
>Pivot
This lineup stuffed even Magearna, Dracovish, Cinderace, and Dragapult, so Spectrier would likely have also been kept under by it. You could also have unbanned Zamazent-C and have it do nothing. Mega Metagross usage also suppressed Mega Lopunny who is the second best Mega by far in the tier, like Mega Ray vs Mega Mence in Ubers used to be.
Is a monoformat fun? Probably not, but it is "fair" because it requires a higher skill ceiling when both teams are essentially running a mirror, and by including as many Pokemon as possible it's objectively less fanfic than Smogon's "real" format.
In current natdex is being terrorized by Weavile just like dexit OU, except Weavile has slightly more trouble due to Mega Scizor. Ash-Gren has been power crept some if that could be believed. Perhaps if the meta hadn't been culled so early we might have seen Ash-Gren fall in usage since Dragapult and Spectrier are naturally faster and more immediate than pre-BB Greninja is.
>This is the same meta that banned fricking Kyurem.
Because that was broken since it could run special or phy sets with ease as well as Dragon Dance
It's cute and I love it tho.
I don't understand the seething behind Landorus-T, it's Landorus in a fair form. Incarnate is the one that is absolute bullshit
It's a combination of people looking for a scapegoat to blame for everything wrong in the world and people just being fricking tired of seeing it.
Just because you ignore everything that you don't want to hear doesn't mean nobody gave you a "valid reason"
Hope your mom dies tomorrow.
Honestly it's not that hard to counter, it can't switch in safely on most pokemon and can be taken out by most things that it doesn't one shot. I think the problem is that if you didn't ban it people would have to come up with creative strategies to get around it and couldn't just copy/paste their team and claim to be a good player.
>it can't switch in safely on most pokemon and can be taken out by most things that it doesn't one shot
I think you're missing the point. It comes out after a pokemon is dead similar to weavile does now. Then it can easily Revenge kill or murder the switch in mon. Then it comes a game of either it's scared, banded or a belly drummer. If you guess wrong you auto lose a second Pokémon.
Smogon is not a real meta
ur an ugly fat moron lol
I know for a fact I'm taller and slimmer than you. I also know that, considering I'm the only person on this board who isn't a virgin, I'm more handsome than you are. And since height, low BMI and good looks are correlated with high IQ, I'm also more intelligent.
post dick with timestamp
don't bother with some defensive spiel if you're not man enough, we've heard them all before
either post or no
I'm not taking a ban to satisfy your homosexual urges. 17.5cm in length (18 bonepressed) and 15 in circumference btw. Intact, of course.
>tfw every Gdarm player has the millennium eye and anticipates your every move
>gdarm player gets every prediction wrong
>my scizor "hard counter" gets every prediction wrong
isn't op you guize
>just be restricted to 3 moves on all your mons
>gdarm isn't a problem btw
Because smogon banned double team.
With double team g-darm would be simple to beat.
Man /vp/ is extra moronic since gen 8
counter - can switch into ANY single move and not get two shotted, if it cannot do that, it's a check.
For example, unless it's max EV S.DEF, Ferrothorn can't be called Battle-bond Greninja (still not ash) counter, as it can be 2hko by Dark Pulse specs. It is a counter with max s.def.
Tapu Fini is a 100% counter, for example
Smogon has been moronic since Gen 8, the idea a banded Pokemon MUST have a large variety of zero risk answers vs a presumed choice unlocked but still choiced Pokemon which simultaneously has scarf and band is something I never saw before this gen.
>fanfic meta
>fanfic bans
Many such cases!
>it's balanced because you can win by hoping your opponent chokes
>slow
>95speed + 50% from scarf
Bumping this to show why posting elo is a must.
>fanfic meta
Fanfic bans.
It's banned because its ability is just a built in choice band you dumb frick, AND it can choose to run another choice item on top of that
>B-but that has counters
Every single fricking thing in this game has a counter, that doesn't stop G-darm from having one of the highest raw ESTs in the entire game with choice items
It had/s plenty of viable counters. Putting it in greentext doesn't invalidate it.
What part of "everything has a counter" don't you get you fricking lobotmite? It still gets two choice items which is insanely powerful whether it has a counter or not, get that through your malformed skull.
Zacian gets countered by Quagsire a fricking PU pokemon. Does this mean we should let Zacian in OU too?
Doesn't die to stealth rock