Unironically what were they thinking? They should have made a new IP for this style of gameplay. Zelda should have intricate dungeons, not an open world and survival crafting shit.
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Unironically what were they thinking? They should have made a new IP for this style of gameplay.
>universaly acclaimed
>best selling zelda of all time
ok moron
>no dungeons
>degradable weapons
>resource gathering up the ass
>they actually tryhaeded to make a story and it's shit
>right handed Link in a non motion control title
>shitty Skyward Sword style art
You're the moron. I finally forced myself to finish the game after 7 years and it was shit the whole way through.
Still universally aclaimed and the best selling Zelda of all time, and thus, the new series standard. Deal with it or go play rollslop or palshit instead
Your argument of, it sold a lot and critics like it is a moronic argument. Capeshit sells a lot and critics like it, doesn't mean it's actually high quality movies. Stop being a sheep and get a real opinion.
>Capeshit sells a lot and critics like it, doesn't mean it's actually high quality movies.
It does actually.
That's not even an argument, he didn't say it wasn't successful, he said it shouldn't have been a zelda and should have been a new ip. I agree, it's like making some bizarre puzzle game with cars and robots and calling it super Mario brothers, fricking stupid
>filtered by weapon breaks
>probably filtered by the combat somehow
I bet you screamed "I CAN'T ROLL" more than once
I beat the game without dying a single time. Game's very, very easy since you can just pause and guzzle 50 health items the moment you're in any danger.
And also the enemies are braindead.
To be fair, every Zelda game since ALTTP has been a cake walk but at least those games didn't bore me to tears.
>I beat the game without dying a single time
no you fricking didn't lmao the absolute state of this board
Yeah, with such amazingly hard bosses such as.... um....
I am so fricking mad that we got this instead of a fight against the real Ganon.
Did you not play the game, idiot?
He means anthropomorphic pig Ganon.
I want to fight THE BIG PIG, not a giant fricking fart cloud, and especially not Demisedorf stretched out into a lobotomized lizard.
The game's easy dude. I don't know why that's so unbelievable. Did you not know about the pause button?
But again literally every single Zelda except for the first two is easy. It's not a mark of shame, but it's weird BOTW fans try and paint their game as some hardcore experience when it's very much not.
>I don't know why that's so unbelievable
there's a ton of stuff that goes wrong when you actually play the game instead of seething about it on the internet, like falling in freezing water, or falling from a climb because you didn't have enough stamina, or getting hit by lightning or yes even getting one shot from an enemy because they hit like trucks early game and have super armor
the game does get easier once you know the mechanics and systems and death becomes pretty much impossible once you get mipha's power but no one is going to one shot the game blind, your pathetic boasting notwithstanding
>like falling in freezing water
Freezing water doesn't kill you fast enough usually. Also you could just... not fall in. I didn't.
>or falling from a climb because you didn't have enough stamina
This never happened to me because you can just guzzle stamina replenishing food like everything else whenever you're expecting to climb anything.
>or getting hit by lightning
You'd have to be moronic to die to this.
>or yes even getting one shot from an enemy because they hit like trucks early game and have super armor
I've heard people complain about this but actually enemies just come very close to one shotting you. Assuming you're using decent armor and not running around naked. Oh and don't just make a beeline to Hyrule Castle like a moron.
>Freezing water doesn't kill you fast enough usually
it absolutely does, didn't read the rest dilate + sneed + never played the gayme + have a nice day + go back + feed
Guess I didn't fail basic platforming challenges enough to know that. I'll defer to the expert on this one.
>I've heard people complain about this but actually enemies just come very close to one shotting you
The game has "one shot protection" as long as you're at full health nothing can take you below a quarter of a heart from full health. Lost all desire to get more hearts when I figured this out. Not in master mode though but frick off I'm not PAYING more for NG+ what the frick??
Oh hey that's just like 50 Cent Blood on the Sand, the best game ever made.
I mean I find it unbelieveable he didn't die once myself, but that's not because the game is difficult because it's not, not even a little bit. I just find it unbelieveable because I think everyone walked off a cliff at least once or got smushed by a rock or something.
His point is right though, enemies are piss easy, and even when you take damage you just spam food items
I triggered Mipha's Grace plenty of times. But I never got a Game Over I should say.
Fair enough.
>enemies are piss easy
they're significantly harder than anything in the previous games and who gives a frick in the first place, who plays zelda for the difficulty
oh I forgot it's just a bunch of fromtrannies seething because zelda didn't copy souls like they were begging for a decade, sad!
>they're significantly harder than anything in the previous games
this is b8
you can literally just parry or dodge+flurry rush EVERYTHING.
>brings up dark souls
No I dont fricking want Zelda souls, and nobody ITT said they did, stop trying to deflect criticisms with your console/IP war homosexualry
>you can literally just parry or dodge+flurry rush EVERYTHING
yes you can use your defensive options against enemies while you couldn't dodge or block them in previous games, very thoughtful comment Black person, this is the level of intelligence of your average anti botw millenial sperg
>Defensive options
they're the SAME options you use on every enemy are you moronic?
Even the lynels can be abused in this fashion and the only level of "Difficulty" added to the game is the enemies color changes and they take more hits to kill.
what are you even screeching about you mongoloid, that the game has universal defensive options? what is wrong with this board lmao
I'm starting to believe this is some sort of social experiment and I'm replying to chatGPT, no way this Black person is sentient
>what are you screeching about
No one is screeching about anything but you insisting that BoTW's enemies are the hardest in any Zelda game, which is objectively wrong. Especially when one of the most common criticisms against the game is how easy combat is
>Everybody that disagrees with me is a bot/shill/voice in my head
Not him but BotW absolutely does have the hardest enemies in the series. That doesn't mean they're hard, the others were just easier. You could beat almost any boss in the OoT games by spamming the attack button until they died. At absolute most you had to target a giant glowing eyeball before pushing the attack button.
BOTW and TOTK: the thinking man's games.
>he rebuilds his vehicles by hand everytime like a moronic monkey instead of saving his best contraptions for auto build
Absolute fricking state of you pants shitters
>You could beat almost any boss in the OoT games by spamming the attack button until they died.
t. has never played any other 3d zelda in his life
Have you? Name a difficult boss fight in an OoT game. Name me one fight harder than a white Lynel in BotW.
> Name a difficult boss fight in an OoT game
>moving goalpost
lol, lmao
I mean, there's Lynels.
And, uh, that's really about it. Gloom Hands, maybe, but they don't really compare to Lynels.
For all the emphasis they placed on the Guardians as these big super threats, they ended up being nothing but cash pinatas since their lasers can be parried like anything else and they're one of the easiest things to parry at that.
I missed the guardians in ToTK. why not bring some back in the depths climbing up the boring empty landscape or something come the frick on
>You could beat almost any boss in the OoT games by spamming the attack button
This isn't true even at all
>Especially when one of the most common criticisms against the game
the common criticisms against the game are completely moronic, also why are you now appealing to what's common I thought you wienersuckers were crying about
>le argumentum le ad populum I'm smart mommy I've read the wikiepedia page about fallacies!!!
>those criticisms dont count because I said so
>No I dont fricking want Zelda souls
Replayed MM recently for the first time in 20 years and it's literally just Dark Souls for babies, keep coping
MM is harder then Dark souls, but easier them demons souls
That was the conclusion I came to as well while clearing the snow temple, weird
demons souls is easier than dark souls though.
>this game from the N64 era is just baby version of a game released two generations later
truly insightful post
Alright then soulsslop is just MM for mature and edgier gamers how about them apples
neither one of them are comparable. they're two entirely different games
this
>they're significantly harder than anything in the previous games
*blocks your path
and Skyward Sword had tougher enemies too thanks to the angling mechanics, even when they worked.
>who plays zelda for the difficulty
3 heart runs have been a thing since forever. What a moronic question.
You forgot how the enemy damage is inconsistent as shit too. You have no idea if the moblin is carrying a +22 attack stick on him or not and suddenly you're dead. BotW and TotK are the two easiest Zeldas to get surprise 1hit to the point you need to carry fairies on you at all times.
The beginning is especially bad when you're at 3-6 max hearts and a ton of enemies can easily hit you for more. For BotW I tryharded and filled up the stamina meter before getting any hearts, but thanks to the amount of saves I had to load for it I just spammed hearts first in TotK.
right handed link is unironically a crime
>Reeeee I didn't like it therefore it's bad no matter how many people say otherwise
>get rid of dungeons
>game sells 3x as much
could it be that the dungeons are the worst aspect of zelda?
More like solving puzzle is too hard for the average gaymer
you're saying that like zelda has ever had any real puzzles. killing enemies to open a door isn't a puzzle. opening a chest and putting the key in a locked door isn't a puzzle. that's why they're called dungeons. and dungeon crawlers are boring to the average person.
the divine beast are actually puzzles, and classic zelda fans hate them.
>learning environmental awareness and gaining a bigger picture of the whole dungeon doesn't count as a puzzle
>figuring out how to approach a puzzle from a different angle doesn't count as a puzzle
>charting a path through the dungeon to reach a specific area with a specific switch active
>this doesn't count either
Pleb.
>the divine beasts are actually puzzles
the actual state of this board
holy shit
even the shrines were better dungeons than all 4 of the divine beasts
the divine beast aren't dungeons. they're puzzles. and great ones at that.
>press 4 buttons
>"puzzle"
yes
They are the best and hardest puzzles in the series I just wish they were longer. That elephant made me seethe so much and almost look up a guide. They also don't feel like good replacements for dungeons.
>divine beasts
>hard
>They are the best and hardest puzzles in the series
b8
It's fricking Zelda dude the bar for hard "puzzles" is pretty fricking low
Which is why it's laughable that the Divine Beasts are the "hardest" puzzles.
Anybody that ever played any of the Gameboy games knows you're full of shit
You kids would die on the spot if someone asked you to complete Jabu Jabu's Belly Oracle of Ages version.
You had me in the first half not gonna lie
The new games have more puzzles than the previous games.
>using sales as a metric for quality
More like Aonuma should've stayed in the dungeon-making dungeon.
>sales
Would you say New World is a great game. Starfield?
They sold a lot of copies because of marketing alone. BotW is successful because of marketing and nothing else.
And I think all the linear handholdy movie games Aonuma had been making for 20 years had gotten had gotten stale. I hated Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword so much that I was convinced I just didn't like Zelda anymore - Breath of the Wild made me fall in love with Zelda again in a way that felt like playing Ocarina of Time for the first time again, even if it wasn't trying to just be Ocarina 2 anymore
I would like you to explain what made you love it.
arguably it's not really a zelda game, more like an open world game with zelda set dressing.
Zelda was open world until the dark ages of the series where it went linear.
So how do I beat Zelda 1 without getting the sword, or collecting items, or beating dungeons?
You dont need the sword at the start until you get to ganon. You need to explore the game world to discover dungeons that contain pieces of the Triforce of Wisdom and also other important tools that will help you explore further regions of Hyrule.
Can't believe the Majoratard is so triggered his argument has gotten this moronic. All because he can't accept his game of swamp-mountain-bay-canyon is linear.
Actually, I'm more of a Terraria kind of guy.
To be fair, with the time mechanics, once you have all the tools needed to reach the dungeons, it is open in how you tackle them during a run necessary to get the 4 masks which is more open ended then any other 3D Zelda of that style. Pretty sure Link Between Worlds weapon renting system is the same idea, but less prep work before you can go out and tackle stuff.
>once you have all the tools needed to reach the dungeons, it is open in how you tackle them during a run necessary to get the 4 masks
Those are weasel words. The game's main quest is much more linear than OoT's, which has far more natural free ordering of how you tackle it's main structure. MM is potentially one of the most overall non-linear games due to how much of the game is side content (which the NES games are fairly lacking in comparatively), but there is absolutely a set order for all of it's main events besides being able to nab magic arrows from dungeons and maybe obtain the Garo mask early.
>go halfway into a dungeon, stop, and enter a completely new area
That's fricking moronic for anyone but 100% speedrunners.
stupid
bait
thread
no engagement
it's boring
Where were you when Skyward Sword came out in 2011? Were you playing Skyrim or Dark Souls by chance? No one bought Skyward Sword. You gays cry and moan about the old formula but you weren't there to support it. Nintendo saw games like Dark Souls and Skyrim and thought, "what if we gave them something like that instead?" and what do you know? It was wildly successful. The old formula was getting stale. Just admit it. Now go play OoT for the 60th time.
I played Skyward Sword when it came out and at the time it was my least favorite 3D Zelda because of the motion controls and constant backtracking. But you can at least call it a Zelda game, if they fixed those problems it would have been good. Ever since Eiji Aonuma stopped directing the games they suck.
>I never played Skyward Sword. Twilight Princess was my last Zelda game.
This is exactly my point. Zelda was falling off hard in 2011. So many people skipped SS. Everyone was playing Skyrim. The formula was stale even outside of the motion controls. It needed to change.
>The formula
was heavily deviated from, leading to every major issue. They had this moronic idea that adding some inane gimmick while simplifying everything else about OoT would make for a better game. Then they blamed their own incompetence on completely irrelevant things.
>leading to every major issue
botw was a bigger deviation from the formula and it sold more and reviewed better than any zelda game.
>ad populum instead of a rebuttal
Until my last breath I will say BoTW is a shit game and just a triumph of sheer marketing power. It's just a slop game that morons bought.
>it wuz da marketers!
You genuinely think people have zero agency, don't you? What a fundamentally leftist position.
I genuinely believe that "people", particularly Breath of the Reddit fans, are little more than inanimate matter. Would probably be best to strip them of their rights and force them into fat camps.
You are objectively wrong.
Based. I played BotW and skyward sword for the first time a month before TotK released.
Skyward Sword was shit because the overworld was garbage but the were some of the best in the series good with some fansastic mechanics.
BotW was an enormous letdown. The massive open world was just a marketing gimmick for morons. There is no reason to do anything or explore anywhere, you just spam shrines and then go do dogshit excuses for dungeons which are all basically the same with an end boss which is the same skin on a slightly different model.
Got to hyrule castle, killed one of those centaur minibosses and then just randomly walked into the final boss room. There was zero build-up or suspense the entire game.
And the worst crime of all was they had no unique items like past zelda titles. The entire game you just beat everything with bow and arrow including the complete meme of a final boss.
I don't consider BotW or TotK Zelda games and what they were was a 6/10
>the worst crime of all was they had no unique items like past zelda titles
That's not true there's a few unique weapons from each factions the only problem is the shitty ass durability system and they all BREAK quickly so you're better off just grabbing some garbage from a bokoblin and calling it a day
That was another thing. Everything in the game was designed to artificially inflate playtime. Weapons breaking makes you have to grind them again. Shrines make you grind HP and stamina. Have to climb the same towers to get fast travel. Take photos around the world to see cutscenes (lol).
Everything is far as frick away forcing you to run for hours. The tutorial area was the same thing you did for the entire game with nothing new or innovative happening.
>But you can at least call it a Zelda game,
Skyward Sword is the anthesis of what a Zelda game should be and that it exists at all shows how far the series had gone off the rails
Skyward Sword was crap even by Zelda formula standards
The skyworld overworld was barebones that existed soley so you could drop on islands to open treasure chests and having only THREE areas to explore and backtrack through THREE times instead of just giving us another region was lazy and moronic
Skyward Sword was a stepback from Twilight Princess in every way and the games ONLY saving grace is its soundtrack
I never played Skyward Sword. Twilight Princess was my last Zelda game. I tried to on the switch, and it was a miserable experience.
>I never played Skyward Sword.
neither did zelda fans
>the minish cap
fricking hell man
unironically underrated
SS only redemption is playing the switch version with normal controller functions and download a complete save file so you unlock Hero mode and play it pretending its a less good demons souls.
No, I was definitely playing Skyward Sword.
And it was shit.
And it's still shit.
And I still don't like BOTW.
In fact, I'd say Skyward Sword is still the worst because its moronic Hylia bullshit is still getting pushed in the nu-Zelda games, I want to fricking drown Fujibayashi.
Goddess Hylia is a lot fricking better than Ganondorf being possessed by Demise's generation spanning eternal seethe
>Nintendo saw games like Dark Souls and Skyrim and thought, "what if we gave them something like that instead?"
They saw Minecraft and Terraria instead. Aonuma said as much. Probably because those are the games his moronic son enjoys. He's been making games for his little man since Spirit Tracks.
>You gays cry and moan about the old formula
SS followed that shit formula that people rightly despise. It is nothing like OoT and Nintendo still havn't made anything like it after all these years.
>Nintendo saw games like Dark Souls and thought, "what if we gave them something like that instead?"
Dark Souls is way more like LoZ and OoT than BotW.
>Now go play OoT for the 60th time.
Yes, that's legitimately more worthwhile than any alternative given how uniquely well designed it is. Especially at this point now that people have created proper hard modes for the game and are finally adding extra quests, items and dungeons to it.
If they made a new IP it wouldn't sell well and people would recognize it as a mid game instead of some sort of revolutionary masterpiece.
I feel like an insane person or an old man. I loved God of War and Zelda game franchises as a kid.
With Nu-GodOfWar and Nu-Zelda I feel like my favorite franchises have been ruined and are complete crap.
I am a voice in the minority, but I will never stop believing that people are idiots for enjoying new God of War and New Zelda.
What's wrong anon you don't enjoy a God of War game being padded out with moronic unnecessary "overworlds" and cookie cutter collectables?
I remember running through the originals nonstop, and now I can't even play an hour of Ragnarok without getting bored
The gameplay is probably fine.
What gets to me is that Kratos went from
"Rape the world, everything will crumble into ashes and fire and all who stand between me and my revenge shall perish."
To "I've really been working on myself and letting go of my toxic attitudes go. We can let go of our toxic masculinity through love and therapy sessions."
Anon he let go of his anger at the end of GoW3. He got his revenge and destroyed the world and was left with nothing while still being tormented by visions of his path. I think his "i hate war" viewpoint is understandable it's just the execution was terrible because he still kills most of the Norse gods because "they are bad and I am not"
seven years of seethe, take n°987985254
This game was literally kid me's monkey paw wish of "ocarina but really, super big".
They were thinking skyrim and minecraft made lots of money. We like money. We want money. Money money money. Zelda? Who gives a frick. Money.
>Unironically what were they thinking?
If you were the game director at any company someone would mail a pipe bomb to your house
Can you save your creations in gachaballs in tears of the klingon?
No but Autobuild keeps track of your creations so you can recreate them using Zonaite
>countless spin offs with different play styles over the years
>let's make this spin off and call it a main line
Unironically they called it a main line game so people would buy it on wiiu and get hype for it instead of spin off slop
>so people would buy it on wiiu
then why did they release it at the end of the wii u's life and launch on switch?
you may not remember but they delayed the games release to put it out on the switch
t. still seething that I bought a Wii U for BoTW
Most of the switches "launch" titles were all wiiu ports because no one bought them lmao
I've never played it. Should I emulate it Zelda bros? I'm currently doing a playthrough of LoZ:TP, but maybe I'll give this a try after I'm done.
My three favorite Zelda games are OoT, MM and TP btw
The original Zelda was open world. You "MUH LINEAR PUZZLES" homosexuals ruined Zelda.
DEAL.
WITH.
IT.
>it was open world because you could chose whether to go get the sword in the cave or go die to octoroks before you got bored and shut it off
Reminder the game manual was a players guide with the first few dungeons lined out
You never played zelda 1 or if you did, you never found the first dungeon. Dungeons were 50% of the game. Al Numanuma apparently forgot that fact when he was trying to "capture the essence of the original game". Anyone saying the first game was purely focused on the overworld never even held an nes controller.
All Zelda games are open world.
Yeh bro I remember bee lining it straight for Hyrule castle to explore as soon as I stepped out of the house in my pajamas.
You can't clear Death Mountain at the start of Zelda 1 THOUGH.
Correct. And it's still open world.
>try to skip all the dungeons and rush right to Ganon
>game doesn't let me
WTF YOU PROMISED ME OPEN WORLD
It's been six years and still this pic is relevant
Reminder that BOTWdrones spammed this board for weeks because some irrelevant eceleb dared to dislike TOTK. They genuinely could not handle one(1) person not liking their game and had a complete meltdown.
This one is far more accurate and relevant.
>for weeks
as opposed to you turbo Black folk who've been at it for akshual years
Game discussion is not spamming. Whining about some eceleb because you don't like his opinion is.
I remember my first death in BotW
I fell off the first tower on the plateau by accident and reached terminal velocity
The linear format only really started with OoT. The 2D games were always pretty open.
ALttP and OoT are about as linear as each other though. Linear first half but then you can do a lot of the second half out of order.
That's a complete outright lie. LA was the first really linear Zelda, OoT was significantly more open and exceeds the freedom LttP gives you.
WW and TP was when the linearity became completely cancerous and counter productive to exploration.
Whether or not Nintendo had made BotW a Zelda game, the OoT clones were not going to continue. SS was a financial disaster. In fact the only OoT clone to do good numbers after OoT was TP and that can be largely waved away as riding the early Wii hype. Most people didn't want those games and interest was declining over time. Blame the market not Nintendo for responding to it.
I remember being done with the entire series and consoles after SS. I took my shit in to GameStop and cashed out completely.
I'm a BoTW hater but I agree that the OoT clones had their time in the sun. OoT, Majoras Mask, Wind Waker, and Twilight Princess are the only OoT like games we were going to receive from that era.
Zelda had to change or just go away, but I don't think there's a place in the modern game world for Zelda games anymore. This BoTW isn't so much Zelda more like a rotting corpse controlled by a fungus pretending to be Zelda.
>and that can be largely waved away as riding the early Wii hype.
I don't buy it. People went crazy at E3. The Wii's contribution was, at most, its larger install base for N64 Zeldagays who skipped the Gamecube.
The Wii was a massive success in the first few years, and there were few core focused games to play. It is obvious that TP's sales were substantially boosted from a ton of people picking up a Wii due to the hype then needing something to play on it that isn't Wii party or Mario. I don't buy that TP would have sold as much in normal circumstances.
As much sure, but that's not the same as claiming a lack of interest. Interest was never lacking until people got jaded from Skyward Sword.
But why did people get jaded from Skyward Sword? Outside of the motion controls, the game really isn't any worse than the other OoT games. The dungeons are similar, the story is fine, the side quests are pretty good. I believe people hated it so much because it was the same shit again and they were tired of it. Most of the OoT fans didn't play Windwaker because it was on a dead console and fairly unpopular. So they were willing to do OoT again with TP, but asking them to do the same fricking shit 5 years later was too much.
>Outside of the motion controls, the game really isn't any worse than the other OoT games.
I'm going to give you 1 (one) chance to really think about that claim before I tear you a new butthole.
I can see the argument for Skyward Sword being worse than OoT and TP, but it's at least better than Windwaker and Majora's Mask, even with motion controls.
>it's at least better than Wind Waker and Majora's Mask
Ok now this is how I know it's bait
Wind Waker is one of the worst games I've ever played. I have never known a single person who praised the game who didn't play it when they were a kid. The remake fixed a lot and it's still bad.
Wind waker is the only 3d zelda game I could not be fricked to complete and got bored and never wanted to play again.
Switch MM and TP and that would be a fair claim I agree with, but this isn't about SS' absolute quality. It's about how it would turn people off from the OoT framework when the other 3 entries didn't.
I just explained it to you, it's really straightforward. Most Zelda fans went OoT->TP->SS. Most people did not play MM or WW. So TP despite being more of the same shit was at least very far apart and it greatly increased the production values to give it a novelty. But then they made the same game AGAIN with SS and a lot of TP owners just didn't buy it. They looked at it and said, this isn't exciting, this isn't anything new or interesting. It's the same game I played 5 years ago with a new coat of paint.
>Most people did not play MM or WW
I blame the expansion pack being mandatory for MM. no one had that unless you bought donkey Kong but yeah WW was just for gays, no one wanted that or even liked it who played it. That's why TP sold so well because people viewed it as a real Zelda game instead of gay chibi baby shit
>They looked at it and said, this isn't exciting, this isn't anything new or interesting. It's the same game I played 5 years ago with a new coat of paint.
Aonuma hands made this post
>I just explained it to you
No, you didn't. You have not given a single plausible explanation for Skyward Sword turning off, while multiple others have.
*turning people off
> the game really isn't any worse than the other OoT games
aside from no overworld, the items all being awful, and the frequent backtracking?
Nope nothing at all
It's the awful unskippable story for me and the reused areas are hardly a pay off for 45 minutes of exposition dump. I finally unlocked hero mode or whatever and was pretty excited to play it and just got bored within the hour.
Might pick it and twilight princess up on the switch for my son to see what I'm talking about when I tell him I miss the dungeons and gadgets but it's a crap shoot whether he will even like these games. He loves botw and tears but they arent even the same games.
Isgaf if the games stay open world, i just want them to put as much effort into dungeon experiences.
SS was not an OoT clone. It was in the dungeon formula part only, which they did extremely well. They tried to be too different and completely fricked up the overworld experience.
Leave sky base, loading screen, fly to a portal, loading screen, finish quest, portal back to clouds, loading screen, fly to sky base, loading screen. The entire sky area was fricking moronic and unnecessary. The actual zones where the dungeons were and the dungeons themselves were great.
And I played it once the controls were fixed, the hatred for the game was overwhelmingly because of the controls at launch.
>everything was an oot clone until botw
I hate this argument. TP is the closest to OoT you can get and it had significant problems, like far, far worse pacing, particularly at the start. SS was structured nothing like OoT. WW was barely anything like OoT. Hell, MM was barely anything like OoT. The 2D games are far closer to OoT than SS is.
The only thing that tied them together was dungeons and item progression, which had been a core part of the series from the very first game until BotW threw it under a bus and skinned the series. People who say everything was an OoT clone that needed to end, their issue isn't OoT, they don't like Zelda itself, but they can't say that because they need to pretend they're still fans of the series because they want more BotW.
>TP and that can be largely waved away as riding the early Wii hype
This is also bullshit. The hype for TP billing itself as a return to what people wanted from the series was insane and 8.8 instilled the fear of fanboys into journos. The Wii had little to do with it.
You're arguing with a wall, but you're absolutely right for what it's worth.
Go away OoT gay. I hate you people and I'm glad BotW blew your boring push crate light torch bullshit out of the water sales wise. I started Zelda with LttP so I'm not new to it but I fricking hated the people worshipping the shit 3d design because it benefited from being the first mover in early 3d adventure.
>Zoomer is unreasonably angry about a good game being popular and latches on to slop to "stick it to le boomers"
Why is this so common nowadays?
OoT clones are really lame. They don't have the interesting action based gameplay of the souls series, the puzzles are made for lobotomized toddlers, the story is fine but too repetitive - people get tired of fighting ganon to save zelda. I don't understand the obsession with these games.
Part of becoming an adult is realizing that everything you enjoyed as a child wasn't necessarily as good as you remember it being. Grow up.
Sounds like you picked gay and/or shitty things as a child.
How is Tunic? Is it hard or more baby shit?
nah its good
BOTW is more like Zelda 1 and 2 than anything that came after.
Except for dungeons being a major percentage of game time spent alongside the overworld.
Survival crafting games always feel like I should have 3 screens and a smartphone blasting me with streamers and chats to make it fun. I don't like it.
when will this myth end that zelda ever had intricate dungeons?
dungeons, sure
but they have never been intricate or complicated
maybe old zelda gameplay will return in a new sci fi themed series or something. that would be cool cause they ran out of ideas a long time ago
An open world Zelda in "the style of Zelda 1", is literally just Majoras Mask. You have a vague end goal and you go out into the world and figure it out, doing things not in a necessary set order. It doesn't need some huge frick all empty world. Maybe if these last two games had any type of personality built into them they wouldn't feel like the bland wastelands they are.
I want a new time loop Zelda that takes place over a week.
I think one done with a 24 hour period could be interesting (real time).
Majora's Mask isn't an open world at all.
Its as open as Zelda 1.
Zelda 1 isn't an open world game either
It was in its day.
?????????????
No it wasnt because open world wasn't a fricking thing on the NES
I'll make it really fricking simple for all the zoomers in this thread
Open world=world fully accessible and beatable right from the beginning of the game to the end
>Open world=world fully accessible and beatable right from the beginning of the game to the end
According to who, moron? Any game that had exploration not restricted by a series of "levels", was open world in the 80s, regardless of whatever dumb genre term attached to it. Beyond that, it wasnt even the point of the comparison to begin with. The point was tards saying BotW is closer in spirit to Zelda 1, when MM was the far closer approximation in 3D with the lack of its completely strict linearity.
>According to who
You're welcome to google the definition of an open world game.
>Any game that had exploration not restricted by a series of "levels"
You didn't even play the original Zelda, you absolutely were restricted by levels and had to play them in a certain order to progress. Just because there's an overworld to explore in between the levels, doesnt make the game any less linear.
Why would i give a frick what the modern definition of the term was? Is Pong no longer a sports game? For its era, it was open ended compared to most games, especially on console. Maybe kids were not calling it "open world", because thats a term that came later for the genre, but that doesn't make it any less the equivalent of it for its era.
Same goes for the dungeon order. First off, you could do some out of intended order, so you must have used a walkthrough if you think otherwise.
Second, it doesn't take away from its "open world" presentation regardless if objectives needed to be finished to progress, its the fact that the game was giving you a large world with minimal hand holding telling you what to do(besides the paperwork in the box). A large overworld was open ended for that era. New definitions to it wont change historical fact.
Third, once again, regardless what you want to call Zelda 1 and its genre, Majora still captures what it was in 3D better then BotW did.
Majora's Mask isn't anything like Zelda 1 at all though. It's linear busy work and errands. It's proto-Skyward Sword.
>Why would i give a frick what the modern definition of the term was?
Because it's a modern term you fricking moron
Literally nobody ITT is agreeing with you, just take the L
Ok then whats the term from the mid 80s for a game with a large overworld with a non level based structure in the sense of 99% of games currently on the market of which maybe 5 or so games have attempted anything like before? You are like an autist that gets angry and thrashes about when terms and words are not exactly labeled by the way you learned them.
The only angry autist here is the guy trying to call a fricking video game from the 80's "open world".
>boy the Legend of Zelda sure is the hot new game! I love how open the game world is!
>the what?
>the game world, its really big and open to explore stuff.
>huh? I dont know wtf you are talking about. Please explain it to me with a specific term or phrase that certainly wont change its meaning in the next 40 years with the rapid development of technology.
Nobody used the words "i love how open the game world is" back in the 80s
this is how I know you're a young autist, because LoZ wasn't the only game to do what it did
Ok genius, list me off all the games of the era on console before that that attempted anything close to what Zelda did when it launched. Remember now, this is the 80s so only super nerds would have played Ultima or anything of that ilk on a computer. You cant use Adventure because thats the super obvious answer i know you will go to. Haunted House is off the table as well. Maybe you could argue for the Swordquest games? Maybe you could go for Dragon Slayer if you are nip? You are a typical burger kid in the 80s with an nes you got in 1986, you have a old Atari vcs or Intellivision maybe, some lcd games, maybe dad lets you play on the C64 some times, but you are mostly playing in the arcades or your console. What have you played before the legend of zelda that is going to make you say "nah, this is boring, ive seen this before".
Also lol at your psychic ability to know every variation of words strung together by a English speaking human throughout the 1980s. You rather the term "open-playfield"?
>no no these games dont count because I said so
Blow it out your ass I'll take this as you conceding
>get soft locked because you need an item to progress
>open world
the fact that you can comprehend this with Majora's mask, but not LoZ is astounding
you should wipe the drool off your desk you slackjawed moron
Sorry, you say something? I already beat the third then second dungeons and grabbed the White Sword all before even finding Dungeon 1 or the Wood Sword.
No you didn't and you know it
Hey, while I was getting the white sword I found the entrance to the 5th dungeon! Crazy, I haven't even found 4 or 1 yet.
>not skipping all the dungeons and fighting ganon
Wtf is this a snoy moviegame or something?
Oh, you're thinking of the Legend of Zelda Randomizer, which contains an option to let you do that.
You probably dont even know what any of those games are.
>open world
>massive 3d map with shrines and the same 3 enemy types copy pasted over and over
Congrats for falling for and also defending Nintendo's marketing scam.
>falling for and defending
I'm not falling for or defending anything. BoTW by definition is an open world game. You can literally run straight to the final dungeon after you finish the tutorial and fight Ganon in your underwear with a tree branch if you really want to. You can ignore all the dungeons and go literally anywhere you want if you really fricking want to.
The ONLY thing I'm arguing is that it IS an open world game, and nothing else.
>fight Ganon in your underwear with a tree branch if you really want to
That just simply isn't true. Weapon durability remember? Need to pad that play time out gathering dumb bullshit before every outing.
the keywords were "if you really want to"
only the speedrunner gays did that shit, and even then they just picked apart Hyrule Castle for end game gear and made attack boosting food
I remember how Zelda 1 made you go to dungeon 1 and ONLY dungeon 1 until you got the bow, because the west is blocked by a fence you can't climb and the north is blocked by ice, and the east is blocked by another fence you can't climb, that's its most iconic feature
Sure, but you also could explore basically the entire game world before you even got the sword. Just because new "rules" are added, doesn't make it any less of the equivalent to an open ended game for its era. And as was said before, Majora does capture that same essence better then Botw. You are not fully set loose right away, but neither are you in BotW and TotK. The dungeon to overworld ratio is also closer to Zelda 1 and 2.
You can't explore shit. All you have is the town and the swamp. It's linear garbage.
You are coming off as a gay nearly 40 years later. For the era, people were exploring it. If you want to b***h about a "mandatory" dungeon at the start, its no different then what BotW and TotK do when you start them.
OK, then I'll go to Ikana Canyon after I beat the Swamp dungeon. I should be able to do that, the game is open about its exploration and not linear? I don't want to go to the snow level, it'd sure suck if that was the only other location you can go to after the swamp...
Yes and i will skip the tutorial platue and floating island shit in the new games.
Clock Town is the tutorial. Now that it's done, I can explore the world freely right? Right? Right?
Yes, just like in Ocarina when you reach Hyrule Field, LttP when you escape Hyrule Castle and The Legend of Zelda when you turn the game on.
Hey I can't go the beach, the entire west side of the world is blocked off. I can't explore it at all. And so are the mountains. And the canyon.
The only place I can go is the swamp. Almost like the game is linear or something.
I'm 90% sure the guy you're arguing with is the same moron calling the original LoZ "open world" because there's an overworld to walk around in
LoZ is open world. Majora's Mask is linear. They are nothing alike.
Huh, interesting. Maybe the new area you discovered has tools that open up the game world more and more.
>dude you can explore but not progress anywhere that makes it open world :^)
bite a bullet you immense moron
Whatever you say, kid.
>yeh but you could walk over a couple pixels toward the area before being turned away because you didn't have the item yet
What a fricking moronic sentiment. See my earlier post
Yes, and you needed to figure out what item you needed and you had to search for it.
>muh manuals
You immense tard, they literally put those in because they knew players at the time had not likely played a game like it at the time on a console without a traditional stage layout. You keep coming at this as someone refusing to put themselves in the place of someone of the era use to arcade style experiences.
This thread is a perfect example of people not knowing what an open world game is
Nah, it just seems that way since there's so much shit to do. Zelda 1 lets you mix and match like 30% of the game at any given time.
All of the Zelda games are good for different reasons(besides Wind Waker). I wish they had a master mode for ToTK and I might replay it.
The bar for Zelda games is mediocre. To be good, they'd have to all be designed for people above age 12.
Open world is just shit.
There's not a single game that was improved by this shitty gimmick. If Elden Ring, TW3 or BotW were a success was because of their other strengths, not because of horse slop or "omg you can climb le mountain".
The only way similar game design can succeed forever is if it's addicting. That's how they keep putting out the same Call of Duty or the same Fifa every year and making bank, because these games are littered with addictive systems that keep the consumers crawling back. Otherwise, people will get bored. An example I would give of this is Mario Party on the gamecube. All of the gamecube Mario Party games were great, but the reaction to them was really negative when they were coming out, because the audience was sick of it. I know after Mario Party 4 I just stopped buying Mario Party games until 8 on the Wii added motion control.
So no, they couldn't just keep cloning OoT. And the same is true for BotW. You can already see that a lot of people are getting tired of it by TotK. If they do 3 more BotW clones people are gonna move on.
A great example of a puzzle in Zelda was the Sacred Grove Puzzle you have to complete in TP before you get the Master Sword.
This is like the only actually meaty puzzle in the entirety of this whole game.
Although I love Twilight Princess- I agree with you. It is a Zelda game though, and their target demographic is literal children so I can understand why. There is another "meaty" puzzle at Snowhead Ruins dungeon, but tbh, it really isn't meaty, and is super easy.
I like it too. But I feel like the game only really shines in the last 10% or so when it realizes that it's not good at puzzles. That's when you have the Zant fight, the Cave of Ordeals, the Hyrule Castle run and the final battle with Ganondorf. Which are all highlights of the game every time I replay.
TP's best moments are unironically the combat. The Hero Shade teaching you new moves and turning you into a death spreading madman is fricking kino
>tfw mortal drawing every enemy late game
Charging up a Jump Slash or Great Spin Attack just right to kill a group of enemies is a pure seratonin trigger.
Frick I need to replay TP. I can't remember much except that I absolutely loved it.
Do it. CEMU is a good Wii-U emulator to play the HD version. It's what I've been using to play.
I love the Ganondorf fight at the end. Fighting him sword to sword is fricking KINO.
> But I feel like the game only really shines in the last 10% or so when it realizes that it's not good at puzzles.
I disagree with this, because Snowhead Ruins and Lakebed Temple are huge highlights when I replay the game. I also really love the City in the Sky. On my last playthrough I never even did the Cave of Ordeals, I don't even know where it is- because, I know it's not necessary to do to complete the game.
>Lakebed Temple
FRICK that dungeon actually bothers me. I think I have a deep phobia of the ocean, and being dropped into a dark cave of water for the boss fight is genuinely unsettling
>FRICK that dungeon actually bothers me
It is my second favorite dungeon in the game, kek.
>I think I have a deep phobia of the ocean, and being dropped into a dark cave of water for the boss fight is genuinely unsettling
That reminds me when I was younger when I would swim alone in a swimming pool at night, I'd always imagine the fricking black lagoon creature grabbing my leg and dragging me down and it would fill me with so much fricking fear dude.
As an adult though; it doesn't bother me. I was at a vacation home 2 years ago, and I swam in a lake all alone in the dead of night and it was awesome.
I'm going to tell you just because I think it's kind of funny.
When Midna teleports the Eldin bridge back to where it belongs, there's actually a cave underneath where it was. And that's the Cave of Ordeals.
You can't complete it all though until after you get the Double Clawshot (don't have to beat the Sky Temple, just get the second Clawshot)
>You can't complete it all though until after you get the Double Clawshot
I'm still seething from my first playthrough where I got all the way through it just to get cucked when I realized I needed that other clawshot
Thanks for letting me know. I'm definitely going to attempt it on my current playthrough. I just beat Snowhead Ruins like 2 hours ago, so, the Temple of Time is next on the list.
My son made fun of me for wearing only the twilight princess armor in ToTK once I got it instead of mixing and matching clown suits every two minutes depending on terrain. He didn't get it.
Based for keeping the TP armor. On a different note; Twilight Princess did Ganondorf the best. He looks so fricking badass, malevolent and powerful in TP.
Him straight up murdering that dude with his sword in the desert was pretty memorable
>Twilight Princess did Ganondorf the best
my only problem with him was the same problem I had with Zelda
They had little to no story to them and they're the two most important characters to the story besides Link and Midna. All you know about Ganondorf is he did something bad and got the Triforce of Power after the sages decided to kill him and Zelda has like 3 lines of dialogue the whole game.
I know the tie-ins to OoT and the timeline frickery, it just felt weird they spent so much time amping up Zant just to go "whoops actually its Ganondorf"
He is pretty fricking intimidating though
>, it just felt weird they spent so much time amping up Zant just to go "whoops actually its Ganondorf
This actually made me fully erect. I thought zant was the end boss and then more of the game opened up after you killed him. It really was easily the best 3D game.
That part when the iron boots weren't just for sinking to the bottom of water and you could use them like magnets to walk on the ceiling. DOUBLE hookshot. Frick I gotta replay it too.
Replayed it recently. It's flat out said by Zant himself he's serving a god after the Lakebed Temple and then Arbiter's Grounds (a little over halfway into the game) establishes who Ganondorf is and that he's the one pulling the strings.
You can say you don't like the sudden shift in Zant's characterization at the end or you don't think they did enough for Ganondorft, but Zant being a lackey was actually set up.
I'm more saying that they gave more character to Zant than they did Ganondorf. Link's first and only interaction with Ganondorf is right at the end of the game
and that's not even a TP specific issue, it happens in a few other Zelda games too
>it happens in a few other Zelda games too
Ganondorf is in literally 4 main games and 3 of them introduce him as the antagonist almost immediately with at least 1 confrontation before the end.
Ganondorf/Ganon whatever man.
>main games
He appears in a couple of the gameboy games too
Where did this meme of OOT Water Temple being hard even come from? really telling that this was babbies first Zelda game at the time if this was the hurdle
It was never hard. It was tedious. Equipping the iron boots was annoying. That's why it gets hate.
most complaints I've read about the Water Temple was having to pause for the iron boots, but honestly I think that's a zoomer specific problem because it "breaks immersion".
The water temple at worst is just kind of tedious because some of the small keys are in semi hidden places.
A lot of people missed the room in the middle of the temple where the rising water rose a block leaving a room underneath with a key in it
Iirc that key is entirely optional if I'm thinking correctly
It's been a long time since I've played it, but I dont think theres an optional room in the whole dungeon.
There's is an optional key, but that's because a door is glitched to open when you trigger something else, I think hookshot statues raising.
It might be, but a casual player would have to get insanely lucky and it could require a glitch or 2.
Think about what everyone calls the most hated dungeon in Zelda, and then realize it's the one where you can't even use your sword for 90% of it
>muh dungeons
What's the appeal of Zelda dungeons? How can anyone over the age of 8 find anything interesting in those "use the tool you just found on highlighted points" dungeons interesting?
>How can anyone over the age of 8 find anything interesting in those "use the tool you just found on highlighted points" dungeons interesting?
Cheeky fukin c**t m8
OoT and MM were (usually) more complex than that. WW and TP were just as bad as you're thinking and their claim to fame is all atmosphere. SS has truly competent dungeons.
2D Zelda doesn't belong in this conversation except Minish Cap.
The lighting is worse and so are some of the new textures, particularly the eyes. Compare Dolphin to Cemu and find your preference.
It's the only good Zelda besides TOTK, fricking have a nice day.
>you don't get it! TOTK and BOTW are the closest we'll ever get to Zelda 1!
>actually Zelda 1 was trash too, BOTW and TOTK are the only good ones
You fanboys can't make up your minds, can you?
Link Between Worlds was an attempt at open world slop with its "renting" every piece of equipment from that moronic rabbit. The only problem was you didn't know what you needed until you got there and then you had to go back to his shop and pick it up.
>bro we heard you liked your weapons breaking in botw so we made them even shittier and brittle
>nintendo goes after what the audience showed to be the most attracted to in a game
>nooooo, make a niche game and become bankrupt instead
You've brought this unto yourselves, incels.
Now comes the part where you screech buzzwords in lieu of an actual argument.
The Legend of Zelda is just a top-down Metroidvania.
What I hope they do, is learn from Elden aging. Embed legacy dungeons inside your open world. TOTK kinda does this, but half the dungeons were bad.
Hell, i would be fine with the skyrim model. I just want dungeons that feel like they are apart of the games world and not warp pipes to bonus round challenges. Minecraft gives me more of that then BotW does. I remember 1 shrine that wasnt focused around a gimmick that felt like a dungeon.
I will admit, for the first time in my life, I fell for mediocrity.
I bought a switch just for this, I loved its first 50-80 hours. Then I realized it wasnt that good and I spent $70 on a fricking video game.
The only good thing is I got MHGU for $10 on my switch.
>The content started to get a bit dry after nearly 100 hours so I felt cheated
what is wrong with you people lmao. Don't you whine about every game being a live service always online content mill?
The game advertised a 100+ hours of content, so it shouldn't feel like a loot treadmill a quarter of the way in.
>I just loved it for a full 9 to 5 + overtime work week
>man this game is shit
The most blatant contrarianism. Lol
They tried to copy palworld and failed
I do not care for the distinction of Ganon/Ganondorf. Make him the red haired Chad and frick off with the beast/pig shit.
Fat ugly bastard old school trident wielding pigman is better.
Minecraft is not open world because you need materials to reach the Ender Dragon.