Oh, it's even worse than that. The entire thing reeks of self-depreciating-insert, and players shitting on the MC from start to finish by proxy is putting the lie to what he believes to be his own growth as a person. He's not fooling anyone.
Frick being a bad artist. The real problem is "artists" that think they are philosophers or political geniuses and are trying to "make you think" or tell a moral story. They are ALL bad at it. And yet all post-modern artists are obsessed with it instead of doing actual good art.
I can't think of a single case, no matter how famous the artist, where I've been impressed by the novelty and depth of thought from an artist. Like Picasso's Guernica is great, but it's message of war 'n Spanish Fascism bad is extremely basic b***h. It would have been just as much a triumph if it was some romantic classical Roman inspiration a la rape of the Sabines or whatever. Duchamp was literally just a mid tier Ganker troll that got famous for being famous.
>Frick being a bad artist. The real problem is "artists" that think they are philosophers or political geniuses and are trying to "make you think" or tell a moral story. They are ALL bad at it. And yet all post-modern artists are obsessed with it instead of doing actual good art.
I don't think that you realize those subversive, postmodern paintings were also reviled in their time by the establishment. That is what Yiik does so well and why it's growing into a cult classic. It has triggered people more than anything by taking the onions archetype and turning it into a grand labyrinth of late stage capitalism, consumerism, and narcisissm. In Ganker they call it burger-punk.
>turning it into a grand labyrinth of late stage capitalism, consumerism, and narcisissm
YIIK wishes it got anywhere near to that
Sorry Andrew, having Vella read out 5 paragraphs of wikipedia articles about scientific terms as your exposition doesnt count as good writing
God you are such a midwit.
Define what late stage capitalism is and how it applies to YIIK, how is this a Labrinth?
I understand the narcissism. I think you're just pulling big words out your ass to sound smart.
An example of late stage capitalism would be cruelty squad. Because souls and bodies are all commodities and the main character has to eat organs to regain health out of punishment for wasting the company respawn machine as a mechanic for an easy mode.
YIIK just leaves money in the garbage. And not small change either, full bills. How is that late stage capital? You fricking doodle brain
Ww2 and ww1 art was good because there was a literal apocalyptic war happening that was destroying Europe on a scale never seen before since the black plague.
And even then the art was entertaining because it was so visceral.
Im no expert, but I appreciate when an artist tries to tell what he feels or believes rather than trying to force out something "thought provoking." If it provokes, then it does. If it doesn't, then it doesn't. Or evoke emotions or whatever. I wouldn't know where to draw a definite line where someone is being a tryhard to write something compelling, but I have my own line where I can gauge if the artist is trying too hard.
>No, and he's not all that smart too, by the looks of it.
You only need to take one glancing look at the dungeons in Yiik to realize that. It takes a special kind of moron to put together something like mountain cave dungeon and think "yeah, this is good. People will surely enjoy this".
nah it is really not. Your problems ITT are you are taking it personally when he is talking directly about reddit morons and their consuume / vax / far left 'current thing' existence.
>why do the least talented, dumbest people think they are most qualified to talk about who is an artist?
because they have no idea what it means to create anything. this is their stupid and misguided way of trying to wrap their heads around the concept of creativity, which they lack
>why do the least talented, dumbest people think they are most qualified to talk about who is an artist?
because they have no idea what it means to create anything. this is their stupid and misguided way of trying to wrap their heads around the concept of creativity, which they lack
This is just another head to the Dunning-Kruger effect. Things seem simpler when you know nothing about them because all the details are abstractions you made up. And since you don't realize how little you know, you tend to be much more confident in assessments made from ignorance than from partial knowledge
The Dunning Kruger effect is nonsense you absolute moron. Students at a ivy league college were asked to rate how they did on a test. People who did poorly thought they did poorly, and people who thought they did well thought they did well. After performing this test multiple times the most extreme discrepancy he could get is on a test where he graded the "Inductive reasoning" of his students, a test where students with a average IQ of 125, managed to score 38/45 questions correct, and the average score was 24.
That jackass merely restated the "Better than average" effect when giving people a test that was assumedly fricking nonsense. Before you pretend like he's some fricking visionary, nobody (including him) even knows what the questions were, or how he graded them.
It was nonsense, and you're a fricking moron for basing your world view around it.
7 months ago
Anonymous
I'm not taking this shit from somebody who can't even post a picture that has a background.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Wait…do you think the guys name was Dunning Kruger?
Holy shit!
7 months ago
Anonymous
>The Dunning Kruger effect is nonsense you absolute moron. Students at a ivy league college were asked to rate how they did on a test. People who did poorly thought they did poorly, and people who thought they did well thought they did well. After performing this test multiple times the most extreme discrepancy he could get is on a test where he graded the "Inductive reasoning" of his students, a test where students with a average IQ of 125, managed to score 38/45 questions correct, and the average score was 24.
The fact you think this disproves the Dunning Krueger effect is literally an example of it lmfao
Because when talking about art subjectively anyone can say they think someone's art is bad due to being displeasing to them. When talking about it objectively, the only real metric is "will anyone buy this?" and the answer is obviously not if the "artist" is b***hing and insulting potential customers.
Passing by and noticed a discrepancy here. The post you replied to did not insist that he was not an artist. On the contrary, it definitely referred to him as an artist. It simply posited that he's not a good one.
He didn't question whether he is an artist or not, moron. He said he's a bad artist.
Passing by and noticed a discrepancy here. The post you replied to did not insist that he was not an artist. On the contrary, it definitely referred to him as an artist. It simply posited that he's not a good one.
Good on you for noticing it too, it's astonishing just how low the IQ of this place is.
but he is objectively a good artist. It is impossible to provoke so much discussion while considered to have failed. In film, literature, and music, this is extremely common, the difference is those works are considered masterpieces, because people do not mistake their discomfort for the quality of the material. See Captain Beefheart.
7 months ago
Anonymous
All the discussions about YiiK and its creator aren't about it though. No one cares about the content of the game other than its protagonist being a reflection of the author, something said author vehemently denies despite it being obvious. That and the purple prose.
He fails as an artist because all the discussion provoked by him and his game are about the external narrative surrounding a bitter millennial postmodernist claiming that the medium he made his piece in isn't actually art because he was mocked by the audience that engages with that medium. It's the same reason people give Andrew Dobson so much shit.
7 months ago
Anonymous
You come up with these gay rules that make no sense. Discussion doesn't equal masterpiece. That would mean forspoken was a masterpiece when most people were ripping it to shreds. YIIK is just an embarrassment.
If your rules were to be applied hen that means sonichu by Chris chan is a masterpiece.
There is a ton of discussion whether the protagonist is sympathetic or not. The last time that this happened was in Breaking Bad. He has created a charcater that is truly provocative.
frick off. captain beefheart is a great artist because his work is great, the discussion does not matter. YIIK is disliked because it's not well written no matter how literary his goals are. beefheart did not "make his work bad on purpose", he was an accomplished blues singer and songwriter who didn't give a damn about music theory.
Trout Mask Replica is basically YIIK of music.
7 months ago
Anonymous
trout mask replica is just don van vliet's music done in his apartment ad hoc by zappa (who did it on purpose because he thought zany would sell). I don't think you understand much about beefheart's music.
7 months ago
Anonymous
frick off. captain beefheart is a great artist because his work is great, the discussion does not matter. YIIK is disliked because it's not well written no matter how literary his goals are. beefheart did not "make his work bad on purpose", he was an accomplished blues singer and songwriter who didn't give a damn about music theory.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Yiik is well written
7 months ago
Anonymous
no
7 months ago
Anonymous
Yes
“It’s too wordy” is not a criticism of the quality unless you believe it’s not conveying information relative to the word count (it is)
Not liking the subject matter is not a criticism of the quality either
7 months ago
Anonymous
from your point of view, no criticism is applicable and it's a great work despite everyone hating it. that's fine, but don't waggle your finger like a homosexual.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>no criticism is applicable
No, just not criticism that is moronic and baseless.
7 months ago
Anonymous
You come up with these gay rules that make no sense. Discussion doesn't equal masterpiece. That would mean forspoken was a masterpiece when most people were ripping it to shreds. YIIK is just an embarrassment.
If your rules were to be applied hen that means sonichu by Chris chan is a masterpiece.
>Guy makes piece of media >No one likes it because it is bad >"Plebs just don't understand art"
Wouldn't be embarrassing if he was 17
But I'm sure this is a fully grown man
I don't know man, if I had made Yik when I was 17 I'd be changing my name.
for a facetious quote taken out of context, he's not far off
You can smeer your shit on the canvas, and call it a critique of society. It's technically art, but it's shit, and everybody is going to mock you for it. Something being "Art" doesn't mean it's good.
Maybe he's a bad artist?
It's not a maybe.
This is pure cope
It's to the point where it's tired, and boring to write a artist going "You're not ready for my genius" as a way of making him look pathetic.
>I thought I could be thought provoking
Except you had nothing to say. That's the problem, you didn't do anything that hadn't already been done before. People are fine with watching a character change, they are fine with someone that is an butthole or doesn't know what he wants to do. The problem is the not only is YIIK just fricking boring as shit, but the "growth" that this character goes through is a nothing burger. Stop trying to do "quirky RPG set in American city" because Earthbound did it. People didn't like Earthbound for those things.
A fricking psychic space bee Alien drops down in the first few minutes of Earthbound. It's a bunch of japs foggy notion of America from cartoons.
Yeah, nobody has EVER made a game with a completely unlikable protagonist who is forced to learn to change. Nope. Never been done. Golly gee, this Andrew sure is a revolutionary.
The last time I played Grandia 2 I noticed it plays around a lot with spacing and cinematic angles compared with other JRPGs of the time
Nothing original, but still more than you expect
I mean, he was right up until the first comma.
He dropped the ball on the actual character development part though. The YIIK guy doesn't have any transformation, never redeems himself, and continues to be a garbage selfish person up until the credits roll.
Also, Video games aren't art.
They are made up of art, but they are not art.
>Also, Video games aren't art. >They are made up of art, but they are not art.
Wrong, they both contain and are themselves art
And to be clear, when I say games are art, I mean all games, electronic or otherwise. Baseball is art.
No, people love TWEWY, and I'm sure there's countless other games that have an annoying dick protagonist that grows as a person. Blaming people for "not getting it" is just a cope.
Lol
Like he's kind of annoying but he's just going through basic JRPG "Friendship is cool actually!" plotline. Alex YIIK is legitimately meant to be unlikable and the kind of permanently damaged person who hurts everyone around them and is incapable of change.
>Like he's kind of annoying but he's just going through basic JRPG "Friendship is cool actually!" plotline
Neku legitimately almost kills an innocent girl out of his refusal to actually trust others at the very beginning of the game.
>>VERY begrudgingly attacks somebody because he believes it's a "her or me" situation
Because he refused to actually listen to her in spite of her doing nothing to invite him trying to kill her (even when it’s under extreme stress of not wanting to die himself) while also trusting the words of somebody that just tried to have him killed moments ago.
>Is mentally 5 years old
The point is Tales of the Abyss tells the exact story that the dude was talking about and it's one of the post popular entries in a pretty popular series.
No. The dude literally just dropped unedited murakami quotes in his game. It's one thing to have shit taste in literature and another thing entirely to not adapt your reference to your creation and just shove it in there with all the grace and thoughtfulness of a rap "musician" utilizing samples.
>is a piece of shit but transforms
He doesn't transform though, and him being a shitter isn't even the problem. The problem is he takes 10 fricking years to actually say anything.
He's right. Ebert was right. Games can never be art.
I've been watching a lot more movies lately, and no game, not even masterpieces like Riven or Outer Wilds, can match the emotional and thematic power of film.
No. You have to actually have talent and a well founded understanding of life to write a character who goes through a transformation like that. You can't just start the character off with the most putrid personality imaginable and expect your audience to want to spent the next several hours with this character so that he can "grow" in the last act. It has to feel earned and you have to actually want the character to get better. Most redemption stories are poorly done, and that's not limited to video games.
he's just a shitty artist
and he's been crying about this for 5 fricking years now and updating his shit game instead of moving on and making something new and less shit
it's seriously so fricking embarrassing and the only thing I can imagine that would be more pathetic is discussing quotes from this knuckle scraping mongoloid as if his opinion isn't worse than literal shit
you fricking moron
When you're making a game with an unlikable protagonist on a journey you have to at least make the game fun, otherwise there is literally zero incentive to keep playing
They writing of YiiK is objectively bad though.
It has very little to actually say but takes it's sweet fricking time trying to say it all while wrapped up in some of the least engaging gameplay ever.
>It has very little to actually say but takes it's sweet fricking time trying to say it
All text in Yiik that isn't just some randomass NPC is very information thick
7 months ago
Anonymous
>All text in Yiik that isn't just some randomass NPC is very information thick
BUT FRICKING POINTLESS
It is the very definition of pretentious it has the pretense of being deep or meaningful but is completely vapid
I used to think that book was useless but its actually about getting raped as a kid and I guess its like handed out as reading in case your class has an abused kid and it helps them deal with the trauma or whatever. But for the rest of us its a big book of fricking nothing
Even if the people in his story are stupid that doesn't make the story itself stupid.
I agree with this post
You miss the point, but it is typical of the monsters that capitalism creates. Audiences believe THEY are the artists and that artists have to cater to them. In a healthy society, it is entirely the other way. The artist creates their world view. It is up to the audience to adapt to it and see where he is coming from. The script switch is exactly as he said in the OP, this has changed because videogames have been taken over by children
This doesn't apply to YIIK, because Alex is genuinely supposed to be a piece of shit, and even admits it himself by the end. The writing sucks for other reasons.
intending characters to be unsympathetic is fine
what a lot of people don't understand is the characters can be whatever the frick you want as long as they entertain the audience
you can be entertained by a shitty character you hate that you don't root for
do you not? fight club characters are in the same category as joshua graham. sure the writer will kvetch if you associate with them but maybe they shouldn't have written them to be truth spitting badasses then?
What if you were this guy, and made yourself the villain that's in the wrong and gets his ass beat, and the main character some type of guy you really fricking hate? Would that work?
God love him, but what a turboautist. Story is the most important thing in a porno and it's the second most important thing in a video game. If Doom had've just been a 3D tech demo with none of the style or backstory that it had, no one would have given a shit
I guarantee that even if you're just jerking off to a pair of cow breasts, the context for your arousal within your own mind is what makes the image so interesting, not the literal milk bags. The extent to which you are aware of this is the extent to which you are human and not some dumb animal
the context is a woman with big breasts getting her breasts squeezed and moaning while riding cowgirl. That's it. Any more and you may as well jerk off to literotica
The real redpill is trying out literotica and realizing all you need at that point is just a couple of pictures for inspiration. The other anon is unironically right
>photo of a chick standing nude in a studio vs a photo of a chick standing nude in the middle of a grocery store >photo of a nude woman's naked c**t vs an upskirt photo of a clothed woman's naked c**t >a video of a woman jerking off in her bed vs a video of a woman jerking off while she's driving a car
Did you seriously forget that people tend to have fetishes?
This is especially moronic when talking about RPGs. If the only draw for The Elder Scrolls was its mechanics it would've been binned in 2002. Morrowind was objectively carried by its compelling alien world, the stories you could find in that world, and the increasingly insane esoteric background lore MK added through the 36 Lessons of Vivec.
People just don't understand different mediums. If you make a video game, then the gameplay has to be art, not your writing. If you wanna write art then write a book.
God I hate to say it but didn't Disco Elysium do jus this, only exceptionally better? Also gives you the option of remaining an butthole or becoming a booze-addled homeless miscreant.
Nothing in the marketing suggested he was a character you were supposed to dislike or that the character designs were tongue-in-cheek. The game was called "A Postmodern RPG", not "Hipster Quest" or something. It's understandable that people would write it off at first glance. I'm still not sure how much of the hipster aesthetics and dialogue were ironic or sincere.
I have a feeling it was 100% sincere but with the backlash he pivoted to the "it was le ironic" defense
Either way, YIIK has hit cult classic status like it or not
>I said, look, the plumber's back.
In this moment we can see Ratchet's character development, where he goes from being mean about someone's weight to appreciating his profession and the important maintenance work he does to keep society stable and secure.
to these people "art" is synonymous with masturbatory fart-huffing.
you don't need to be super deep to be good art. halo 2 has a surprisingly compelling story, especially from the arbiter's perspective, and half that game was written around lines the writers thought sounded cool and action movie tropes.
Yes but the entire story has every characters actions mapped out even if they aren't mentioned or on screen. So the story ends up being very tight because they just cherry picked the most compelling or interesting scenes to show the viewer.
To the game's credit. Keeping track of where characters are and what they're doing even when they're not being observed is just good writing advice. The way Halo 2's plot is structured, with the perspective shifting between two characters on opposing sides of a conflict, just serves to highlight it.
The problem is the dev doesn't know how to make that sort of meaningful character growth because he's never undergone it himself. He's still the same insufferable hipster homosexual he was in middle school.
It's just the same as in comics, yeah yeah capeshit, but think about it. Heroics require self-sacrifice, and to the people writing heroes nowadays, self-sacrifice is blacking out your profile pic for a week in the name of Saint Floyd.
>make shit game >it sells like shit >people roast it because it's shit >N-NO IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE SHIT ON PURPOSE, IT'S ART >IT'S THE GAMERS FAULT, NOT MY OWN
you're living through a schizo episode because nobody is trying to rehabilitate YIIK. In fact, it seems more like YIIK and the dev became a negative example
It’s the Irony Trolls who pretended to like the game leading to morons that like the game to shill it.
It is the old adverb, Any community that gets its laughs by pretending to be idiots will eventually be flooded by actual idiots who mistakenly believe that they're in good company
People just don't understand different mediums. If you make a video game, then the gameplay has to be art, not your writing. If you wanna write art then write a book.
More than anything, this. Videogames are not books and they are not movies. They are art, but they cannot tell story and produce emotion the same way. That's not to say they can't do it to the same magnitude, but you have to understand that the pacing is different, the engagement is different. Cut scenes are a fricking disease to videogames, it's why Kojima simultaneously succeeds and fails with some of the best constructed games, and why fromsoft is accelerating into the stratosphere. You cannot frame shots, you cannot tell story through dialogue or soliloquy. The attention of the audience has to be goal oriented, relationships with characters have to be built by interaction. There are so many more options for making you feel things that are under-developed because all these studios are trying to be film because of some jawless old frick. Make me hate the villain because he's frustratingly hard, so that when he dies I can scream frick you at the screen, make me love the NPC because they help me when it's critical. Why the frick do people love solaire? Why does his death ring so profoundly? It's because he gives us hope when we're actually lost and frustrated in the early game. He's one of the first things in the game that isn't hostile. He helps us out in all of the toughest fights. We barely talk to him and there's no cutscenes, but we hate Gwynn at the end for his sake, for abandoning his children. That's art! Prince of Persia sands of time makes me feel things because of the dialogue IN GAME that shows a slow progression in the relationship. She helps us, gives hints, moves the story, we end up loving her, so her kidnap is motivating. Same for Cortana in Halo3 when we rescue her from the flood. Most modern game makers don't understand the medium they're working with, and they end up making soul-less slop because of it.
To go further, why do I respect Isshin of Ashina at the end of the game? There's literally one cutscene, but his best lines are thrown at me when he's trying to kill me. Why do we love midna from Twilight princess? Why don't I care about Ashley from RE4? The art of videogames has to be done through the mechanics of the game, your interactions with the characters are bigger than the sum of their dialogue and their cutscenes, and the time you spend playing is always bigger and more important than the "story" components. Zero dawn was good, because aloy was a loner, and it meshed well with her dialogue and the story components. More importantly, the game was very fluid, the mechanics worked, I felt like a wilderness survivor. Forbidden west is a giant piece of shit because the narrative components of the game don't match the gameplay, and because it's a giant open world of fetch quests and sloppy animations. No movie style directing can fix a sloppily produced incoherent game.
>why Kojima simultaneously succeeds and fails with some of the best constructed games,
I went on an autistic war path against death stranding for essentially having no story until the last fight which lead to a full hour of cut scenes of hamfisted acting and emotions. While simultaneously undermining his game's central mechanic because he felt he needed to make it playable for the actors he paid to act, even though they will never play video games.
artlet cope
if you write a book you are a writer, not an artist
if you make music you are a musician, not an artist
if you make movies you are a director, not an artist
if you make video games you are a game developer, not an artist
art is art, nothing else is
>a piece of shit unlikable character who by the end of the game has to transform
Your character can be a piece of shit, but not unlikable. Never unlikable.
An unlikable MC is tantamount to suicide
The writing is bad because your protagonist needs to be relatable in some way to connect with your readers. No one connects with a complete piece of shit, except maybe you.
he was being sarcastic and insincere, but the truth is BOTH,
videogames are both mindless toys for children and infantilized adults AND videogames are interactive autotelic experiences that can convey a story in an interactive way most mediums of art could only dream of.
Just like movies are both mindless pornography and cinema with deep and nuanced explorations of character.
It's fricking both.
I think the mild redpill here is that you need smart people to write morons and good people to write homosexuals, Alex sure supposed to be unlikable, but he is also pretty stupid, and writing morons is very hard admittedly by every writer who took that job, when actual idiots start to write a dumb character you just get an annoying twat, because morons are annoying and you actually have to put in work to numb the infuriating experience of watching dumbasses, it might be even harder than writing smart characters, because you can make an intuitive(due to being natural) logical sequence and how believable it is depends on your skill, imagine writing chaotic lack of movement inside someone's head, that sounds complicated
Mike Judge, creator of the best portrayal of moronic people (Beavis&Butthead) said that it's hard to write them, due to them being stupid
Writing a morally lacking character means he needs to be either witty, charismatic, funny or handsome, if he literally none of this things, you just get an asswipe nobody wants to look at
Yes. He's a bad artist who tried to make a toy like art installation that he could sell for a ton of money. He's a bad artist because had nothing to communicate, the game was a narcissist who talked about himself, just shouting into the void, instead of invoking anything in the audience. Then he gets made at the audience for seeing what he didnt want them to in his work.
So like a real hipster. He will give up, whine to his hipster friends about it every chance he got, and chase the next trend instead of work on his art. That is why he is a bad artist and an butthole.
No. Just because it's art doesn't mean people will stomach your nasty shit. The word "art" isn't an excuse to pass off whatever trash and expect everyone must appreciate it because you slapped the label on top.
Haseo is not an unlikable piece of shit at any point. He had his own circumstances and Atoligays gaslight over that because at one point he got mad at her for wasting his time after he gave her a chance.
https://i.imgur.com/dxGduNC.jpg
Was he right?
>who by the end of the game has to transform.
He really doesnt though. The end of Yiik is just odd(IIRC Alexs altnernate selves have are selfish so they destroy the world)and quite frankly too the MC isnt even a bad person,he is just more into himself than others which is where Yiik fricks up as they shouldve just made Alex an actually bad person. Thats what people want to see. Case in point, Huniepop where the characters had baggage and did shit like stealing, drugs and were territorial+aggressive.
Art isnt simply art just because its different and the majority dont even like to go by that. What the majority do like to go by is that Art entertains the viewer. Yiik did not want to understand that and gives the viewer a story about a guy who enjoys himself in a boring way and we see his journey that is filled with other boring people and things.
>Haseo is not an unlikable piece of shit at any point.
He was, in the beginning. Not a piece of shit, but definitely generally unlikable with the way he treated other players, not just Atoli. He was FAR LESS unlikable than Luke, however. Haseo represented the limit where the audience would still like the hero even if he acted like an butthole. Luke pushed past that limit specifically because he had no reason to be that much of a prick to everyone. If anything, having circumstances balancing a character's butthole behavior perfectly is what makes an acceptable butthole hero, who is still an butthole.
Here's a real unlikable protagonist: Kills dolphins, drugs ex-girlfriends, kinda sorta a motherfukcer, feeds babies to kiddie eaters. But people dont hate his games or use that as a negative point because he is in a situation that often justifies it and he has a sympathetic goal. It's those points that allow the players to stand to watch him do altruistic things at his own detriment.
YIIK-man doesnt really seem to even have a goal. He just does things.
Actually a lot of people hate his games because of how much of an unrepentant piece of shit he is.
Isn't one of the main features of the game that he is a clone of the guy who's one of the game's main villains and exhibits all of the same douchebaggy tendencies, just from a different angle?
Video games are art when they are made by people who understand and love video games, not by people who can't make it in other medium yet have the temerity to act like making a video game is beneath them.
I think it's funny that his attitude is that people should accept and understand him by default and that it isn't his responsibility as a creator to win people over.
No. People love to gatekeep "art" like this guy. It's no different than an indie film-maker crying about how everyone buys tickets to Marvel movies. Art can be simple to digest. That doesn't mean it isn't art.
What this guy is trying to say is, "I tried to use a video game to communicate complex emotional and metaphysical themes. People didn't think it was fun, so no one bought my game. I thought people would buy it because of the themes, but I was wrong. People buy games because they're fun."
In context he isn't mad about the success of his game, he is mad people were dogpiling it over things that aren't true, and when people talk about the game they will just double down on things that are wrong or anti-intellectual to claim it's "objectively" bad. It's one thing to say "I don't like the game", it's another to say "the game has bad writing" and then not really be able to back it up.
>by the end of the game has to transform
Well, I guess he did. Not because of any subtle characterization, not because he experienced any real character arc, not because of anything in the story, but just because, he's supposed to. He was a prick the whole time, and people called him a bad person. Then all his "friends" are taken away, and he goes "Damn, maybe I AM a bad person". Very deep.
No. His mistake wasn't thinking video games were art. His mistake was thinking that if he proclaimed his game was art he would have an excuse for why he made a pile of shit. He could use the excuse "You just don't get it". Instead he made a pile of shit and everyone knows this including himself.
He's the type of person who will never take full blame for his own failure. He will shift blame to others. Was he wrong? No, it was everyone else that were wrong.
Author self-inserts are different from characters intended to be audience self-inserts.
A pretty obvious example of both is ASoIaF, where Jon Snow is intended to be a surrogate for the audience due to his relative naivety, while Samwell Tarly is clearly just gurm placed into his own setting.
I'm NTA you were arguing with, I just thought it's weird to say that Alex isn't actually a self-insert because he's not a customizable blank slate straight out of a Bethesda game.
Author self-inserts are far more common than that kind of audience self-insert, since that can only ever be done in video games.
Alex IS Andrew. In the endgame, the Alex of Laziness is delaying finishing Chromophore, AACK's previous game. The only person who can be called lazy for not finishing it is Andrew. Nta btw
No, even taking him at his word, this is a problem faced in every art form. You make the main character unpleasant and hordes of people will say things like "this character sucks", "why would you tell a story about this person", "I find the main character unrelatable", "this is problematic", etc, etc.
It's especially hard for video games because people are less willing to put up with an unpleasant character the longer they stay that way, but also because being a participant in the character's actions, the player is especially likely to be frustrated when they don't understand why that character thinks they should act that way.
In other words, a flawed protag is always a challenge, especially in vidya. It's the artist's lack of skill or care that prevents it working.
Media is filled with unlikable characters that grow. This is such a common thing in movies and TV. It's a very successful story to tell in pretty much every other medium.
Yes, I understand that, but it's also something people complain about in every medium.
Catcher in the Rye's a famous example. People who can put up with Holden tend to get a lot out of the book. People who are too put off by fact that he's an agnsty self-pitying teen don't.
There's always someone complaining about everything but that doesn't mean the media is panned. Catcher in the Rye is a critically acclaimed classic. Yiik got fricked and the primary complaint was the unlikable characters. Now I think that if the game were better people would respond differently to the unlikable character however this is not the argument players were making so they should get shit on for their garbage critiques
I dig, but what he is (probably sarcastically) saying is "Games aren't art, I could have done this if I'd picked a real art form"
But real art forms get that shit all the time. Books that aren't Catcher are still widely hated for having unlikeable characters. Movies and tv shows get panned all the time for having unlikeable characters. An "unlikeable" main character is possible to succeed with in all of them, but it adds a layer of difficulty for the artist. The problem isn't that video games can't be art, it's that he failed to connect with his audience.
He's dumb but the context for his anger is that when the game came out everyone whined about how unlikable the main character was. His issue is that the character is intentionally unlikable and grows throughout the game. Now whether he accomplished this or not I have no idea but the criticisms of the game were weak and did kinda imply games couldn't be art because people demanded a lovable MC from the start even if that went against the point of the game. From what I've seen the game is shit regardless but the stuff he argued against was pretty moronic.
>His issue is that the character is intentionally unlikable and grows throughout the game.
He doesn't though. He starts out as an unlikeable piece of shit and ends the game as an unlikeable piece of shit. The only real change is he goes from thinking the world revolves around him to learning that the entire multiverse does in fact revolve around him.
>The only real change is he goes from thinking the world revolves around him to learning that the entire multiverse does in fact revolve around him.
That's intentional, all of these "revelations" take place inside Alex's head. The crux of the plot is that Alex is 25 and rapidly approaching the point of no return, and rather than deal with his issues he engages in schizo shit to distract himself.
no, he's just a dumb Black person who can't into visual storytelling ("this room is clearly a female's room", render is all bookcases), managing game friction (every action is wiener and ball torture and the payoff wouldn't even be compelling if the input was basic b***h Final Fantasy menuing) and also thinks that prose more purple than Gengar is somehow good writing (fricking "the elevator began to shake, vibrating with motion").
He doesn't improve at all, and arguably gets worse. And that's fine, that can be a great story, but when you yourself market the game as the "growth and evolution of an antihero into someone good" and then he just doubles down on being a homosexual, you gotta expect people mock you for it.
Too bad he thinks that alex is "good".
Yes, I understand that, but it's also something people complain about in every medium.
Catcher in the Rye's a famous example. People who can put up with Holden tend to get a lot out of the book. People who are too put off by fact that he's an agnsty self-pitying teen don't.
filtered.
art can do different things. you just demand every thing be the same way. maybe spider-man is more for your ilk, where the heroes and villains are cleanly drawn.
>you just demand every thing be the same way... where the heroes and villains are cleanly drawn
No, I absolutely don't. What I'm saying is that lots of people in every medium DO, and it's NOT UNIQUE to video games THAT they do. Even thought video games face additional challenges WHEN they try to feature an initially unlikeable protagonist.
NTA and i'm not accusing you. I do notice a trend where autists and/or a lot of people online tend to obsess over media that has mostly clear depictions of good and evil. For every Marvel and Star Wars gay there are anime fans who are into the same types of media, it's just Japanese. If it's not the sex/(self insert) dating animes, it's the shonen ones.
The self insert hate is possibly hypocritical because i know most of these dudes must be self inserting to some degree. They obsess over these anime girls and think Japan will be just like their favorite anime or JRPG.
A lot of black and white mentality. Little nuance or gray area. It's some sort of lack of understanding or dislike of media that doesn't have clear lines. Not liking things is fine, but these guys who focus on one thing only just sound so moronic when they talk about anything else. It's embarrassing to listen to and read.
I suspect some of it has to do with our times' critical culture generally. People feel to some extent that they're judged based on their tastes, and that they'll be judged as sympathizers if they don't condemn something where the main guy is "bad"
I mean, cheering for good guys and booing at bad guys is a basic human way to relate to stories, I just feel like people also have learned to amp it up as an artistic criticism in recent times out of personal social fears. No idea if there's anything to it, just a personal theory.
I get it though. While I personally get a lot of gratification out of trying to put myself in the place of people with different value systems, I can also see how for someone who mostly enjoys art as relaxing escapism, spending time with a difficult character could be unappealing.
I agree. I find myself liking some media with clear good and bad and some media that's gray. Depending on the media, i will like the good guys or the bad guys.
The political climate is very much like that right now. It pops up in real life, like whenever you see some moron who can't separate Nazi Germany from individual Germans during WW2 for example.
>I thought I could be thought provoking
Except you had nothing to say. That's the problem, you didn't do anything that hadn't already been done before. People are fine with watching a character change, they are fine with someone that is an butthole or doesn't know what he wants to do. The problem is the not only is YIIK just fricking boring as shit, but the "growth" that this character goes through is a nothing burger. Stop trying to do "quirky RPG set in American city" because Earthbound did it. People didn't like Earthbound for those things.
I remember reading some manga about a girl that has low self esteem, she gets isekaied with a stacey and everyone tries to convince her that she has some good things about her too
The manga ends with the stacey being a genuinely good person and the mc just goes back to her world with low self esteem or something and I just wasted my time reading it.
If the author doesn't properly pace the growth of the shitty MC because they thought that the character needs to be the most unlikeable piece of shit, then the readers have the right to drop the garbage they're reading.
Earthbound and mother 3 are the only two games that come close to being considered art because they're both full character and plot experiences that could only be portrayed in the video game medium. The fact that it was a writer who made the games helps further this belief
yes. he makes his point in an asshurt millenial way, but he's right.
games are morons who get triggered at the slightest hint of depth showing its head inside their mindless bing bing or coom coom pastime.
The fact that Disco Elysium exists, was released around the same time, is the same genre, has a similar basic idea, has a much better artistic direction in every aspect, is more fun and is a million times better completely kills his argument.
This is just frustration being vented by lashing out at the people who disliked his game, even if you agree on him about games being art or not.
The difference is that Harry is a bad person objectively speaking, he's a chronically depressed drunk with severe anger issues who's done some despicable things, but he's still sympathetic right from the stard DESPITE that. I suppose the way skills work really helps to highlight the inner turmoil of trying to improve yourself and do the right things, but still failing or getting tempted to cause chaos at times.
It's funny how quickly he pivoted into "don't worry guys, it's bad on PURPOSE, it's so bad it's GOOD haha I'm in on the joke now!" just like Tommy Wiseau did
>Tommy Wiseau
Frick me but did that guy age like milk. Weren't cokehead celebrities supposed to be youthful for longer? Those who survived, I mean. Rockstars don't count.
Andrew Wishes he could make Disco Elysium, but he grew up in the most milquetoast and aimless upbringing with zero life experience. He can't write very well and his idea of "good ideas" is just doing the opposite of what other people are doing. He misunderstands deconstruction and subversions as just last minute twists and mysteries with no payoffs.
Making one of your first games a deconstruction of the concept of "RPGs" before you even make your first RPGs, is going a step too far. Also how the frick can you deconstruct a video game genre, that makes no sense. It's like saying "I invented a sport that deconstructs soccar"
YIIK is halfbaked and experimenting is fine but the story and pacing is fricked and he really should have tried to do a basic story outline with well thought out arcs and events rather than cram in "ideas" til they ran out of time
Seems that you went in with expectation it would be like everything else, instead of open to a different kind of experience. Your criticism is of your own close mindedness.
You absolutely can deconstruct a vidya genre, the problem is that you need to understand the genre before you can deconstruct it, and Andrew clearly does not understand the genre, or video games, or visual arts, or writing.
>You absolutely can deconstruct a vidya genre
What's a good example of this other than 2smart4u meta-games where (You) were the dead purple bone kid all along? >inb4 Spec Ops: The Line
That one is only a subversion regarding the story; all the gameplay mechanics are bog-standard 3rd person shooter nonsense.
Disco Elysium was a brilliant deconstruction of RPGs.
Cruelty Squad may not be the first but it was a notable example of subverting video game tropes. >The genre is basically boiled down to a set of tropes, conventions and a typical premise. All of these features are then played straight; without shying away from any unpleasant consequences and/or causes of these features. Basically, the heart of the genre is laid bare, warts and all. It is not solely done to denote how unpleasant a genre or trope is, but to break away from the clichés and stock themes said genre or trope has acquired. >Merely making a genre Darker and Edgier is not the same as deconstructing it. To deconstruct a genre, the essential elements of the genre must be clearly demonstrated and taken to their most logical conclusions, and this causality must be plausible. If the Trope Maker or Trope Codifier deconstructs itself (or at least seems to), then you've got an Unbuilt Trope.
My guy, he put Postmodern in the name, and charged 20 bucks for a RPG maker game with a redditor protagonist.
Doing that stuff helps with your steam reviews. The vast, and I mean vast majority of people on gods green earth know that game isn't worth their 20 dollars. The only people who'd be willing to pay for that game to even leave a review are already weirdos.
Out of postmodernist reddit users who want to play as a redditor protagonist with a strong lesbian black mary sue giving marvel quips. 30% of THOSE PEOPLE didn't like the game.
Do you have any idea how low these people's standards are? They gave Garfield Kart better reviews.
In what fricking planet is this an RPG maker game?
7 months ago
Anonymous
It's a insult to RPG maker games. A lot of them look way better. Buddy, and Brad are also bad people. Buddy arguably is the most evil protagonist in any video game ever, and people love that game.
No because The World Ends With You had the exact same character arc except that game was actually fun and enjoyable.
People loved Lisa, and that game has the protagonist literally committing genocide, mascaraing pacifists, abusing people who trust them. I don't know of any game that features more of a monster.
>debating over
you're misunderstanding the thread probably because you have terrible reading comprehension.
nobody is debating anything, there's no conflict. Everyone agrees the game fricking sucks. What every YIIK thread has been was just speculation on what went wrong. >and got pretty solid reviews.
reviewers panned the game and abandoned him with 6/10 scores while steam reviews were mixed for years. This game will never be a cult classic no matter how hard you try to gasligh people.
YIIK is a monument to Hubris and entitlement. It's not a landmark, it didn't accomplish anything, it's simply a social study on what went wrong and how to avoid doing what it did.
the only debate is over the exact depth of Andrew's total failures, the only element of the game that even a layman cannot spot damning flaws in with a cursory glance is the song he wrote that plays in the trailer.
For real, I've played deconstructions of genres. Cruelty Squad was a subversive piece of media that was awesome. Disco Elysium was an amazing deconstruction on RPG leveling and Dialogue.
Andrew just made a literal rip off of Paper Mario and called it a day. No play testing, no demo for feedback. ACK studios just acted so fricking entitled towards criticism.
He is kinda right, gamers in general are insanely butthurt if you do anything different, that kind of mentality doesn't really exist in literature, movies or comics. Okay, maybe some capeshit comics and movies.
He isnt right, there is a large enough subset of gamers who will appreciate a nuanced story and different way of playing AS LONG AS ITS GOOD.
Thats the core issue with YIIK. Even if you set aside the awful character writing, the game itself fundamentally feels bad to play and it used to feel way worse before he patched it.
This was a single random encounter combat on launch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ry-XP7YeoQM&ab_channel=ThatswhatV2isfor
He obviously did look inwardly and understand WHY the game was disliked, and its disengenious of him to say "They didnt like the game because they were triggered" as a defense while simultaneously clearly understanding that its bad
It's called a cult classic. There is not just one way of being good and one way of being bad. There are entire niches and subcategories. Look at music genres, people there are able to say this genre is not for them. Yet in videogames the hive-mind assume that everything is for them and failed to please them.
Stop calling it a cult classic. YIIK is a cult classic as much as forspoken was game of the year.
If the amount of people who openly hate something out number the amount of people who can only argue "it's kinda alright" then that's not a cult classic.
Can you name a single thing YIIK did that makes it stand out positively? Can you describe what it did that was different and bold and striking that makes you want to replay it?
YIIK is a cult classis because its ideas unintentionally border on complete absurdity. "NO ONE CARES ABOUT YOUR DEAD SISTER" is played completely straight within the game, but its the most hilarious shit to anyone playing it. Same with the moronic lemonade llama that was laughed at (because its funny as frick) because its so utterly moronic but its played like a serious scene. >There is not just one way of being good
Story and theme wise I agree. But gameplay can feel bad, and its much harder to make gameplay in a turn based RPG bad to some people and good to others. Especially when the complaint is "it takes too fricking long"
There absolutely is enjoyment to be found in YIIK, but its not from where the creator intended very similar to The Room. However unlike The Room, its a lot more divise because you have to actually play YIIK which isnt fun, while with The Room you just pop it in and play. The creator is just in denial with his creation sadly.
>The creator is just in denial with his creation sadly.
You all trying to make it the videogame the Room is a failure. Again real people on steam, amazon, and switch, think that it is perfectly fine. It is only a small group of autists who hate it because he exposed you for being plebs and the onions boy character hits too close to home for you.
>Again real people on steam, amazon, and switch, think that it is perfectly fine
No they dont. I dont understand what your point is here. Are you aware of how much he changed because of the mass feedback about how the game was designed? I feel like im talking to someone who just read a wiki article or watched a youtube video. Do you even know how much fricking shit hes changed because of how much it was laughed at?
7 months ago
Anonymous
I don't think the guy you're talking to realizes. The initial combat was such a soul sucking slog. It's still bad to this day after many improvements.
7 months ago
Anonymous
The fact that hes not responded probably means I hit the nail on the head and he was talking out of his ass
The issue is that every single character in YIIK is a piece of shit and unlikeable. Alex is just the biggest one. Alex also doesnt learn, hes a massive c**t up until the end of the game.
Its hard to like or feel compelled by any character in YIIK.
He also brings up how Alex always talks like a smarmy dictionary trying to fill a word count but EVERY character does that too.
Can someone name an unlikeable character who you enjoy?
As Robert Downie JR put it in Tropic Thunder "Don't go full moron"
Alex is full moron. There's really nothing to enjoy about his character.
Corvo from 9th Gate can walk into a room and see a friend of his deceased friend hung with a telephone cord, and he's simply walk over to check his wallet before leaving.
Harrier Dubois from Disco Elysium pissed away all his friends, is actively high and might have suggested casual sex to a potential rape victim. But he's probably the most beloved character on Ganker because of his heart of gold.
he sounds bitter because his concept is not deep or good at all lol. Simply a loser who couldnt compete.
There is plenty of butthole characters that grow up and they do it in a kino way. Also post-modernism is marxist trash subversive ideology no wonder why it didnt land.
This, post modernism comes off as a hack concept to try and sound smarter. The only game I played that was post modern was cruelty squad and it was a farcical journey of a Hitman who's body and soul were both commodities that he needed to reclaim so he could dismantle the established hierarchy of his world and restart anew. Only his cycle would repeat endlessly until he went insane.
>my mistake was thinking that video games are propaganda vehicles for my views >i wanted to make a game about a lil' chuddy chud who by the end is castrated >the chud audience i wanted to propagandize and influence didn't like my subversive ways >i got caught and called out as the subversive piece of shit that i am, so i'm going full scorched earth
There's a ton of games where a character is not just unlikeable, but unredeemable and not actively seeking redemption, and they're viewed positively and artistically. The original God of War trilogy for example, or even recently the Last of Us games? His problem is that he wrote a character with his worst and "best" traits into the game, then when told he's still a c**t all the way through the game, he threw a tantrum.
No. Of course they're art. But it sounds like he wanted to write a book or film and is complaining that it wasn't well-received in a different medium. Imagine writing a long description of a painting and deciding books aren't art if it wasn't well-received.
Games are interactive, so putting people into the role of a "piece of shit unlikable character" who "has to transform" isn't going to play as well as it would in non-interactive mediums.
>i made something that i perceive as a high-quality serious game but gamers hated it therefore gamers don't like high-quality serious games
i know you're baiting but i'll bite - of course he wasn't right, the problem with YIIK isn't that it tackles specific themes, it's that it does it in a bad way and the fact that andrew is complaining the way he is shows how much of a pseud he is
that, or he's baiting for attention
it's not enough to have a bad character in the story to make that story good
as for "in a bad way", that refers also to gameplay, not only the story, since the two are connected
I agree the gameplay is bad
If people were just saying the gameplay is bad I wouldn’t really take any issue with what people say. But they don’t, they talk about the story in isolation.
It's just boring and cringe. Alex isn't some Machiavellian schemer, he's not a thief, he's not a fallen hero who's consumed with revenge.
He's just some guy who graduated liberal arts which the writer uses to be some weird strawman caricature of smarmy liberal hipsters. At best he's just some boring doofus who's still figuring out his life and has no goals or direction.
At worst he ocassionally says something mildly racist and somewhat sexist because he grew up in a small town that was largely homogeneous.
The writer thinks he was taking us on some odyssey into the fascinating life of a deep and complex anti hero. But hefails to make Alex remotely appealing to anyone. If he was actually unapologetically racist and sexist he'd be more entertaining. There's really nothing to praise YIIK on. This will never be a real cult classic because that implies a positive connotation. YIIK is like forspoken in that it's an embarrassment and a monument to just shit ideas.
>People say Alex is a bad character because he fails to change. That is 100% an issue with subject matter, not execution. >Author himself says the character is supposed to change
Also, its the fact that every character in YIIK is unlikeable and a piece of shit. The dev is saying "no Alex is supposed to be like that", but EVERY character is like that, its indicative of poor writing and complete failure to understand how his work will be percieved. Alex has his pretentious wording and monologues tackled and rivalled constantly by other characters
>historical revision
You havent even played the fricking game have you. Vella is the most insufferable in it, but every single party member talks down to you or spews out wikipedia ChatGPT levels of nonsense down your throat at some point. Claudio and Chondra being weeb Blacks who cant stop talking about "wypipo dont care about us"
My eyes rolled back into my head with force when Vella's monologue explaining multiverses turned into her wikipedia explaining one scientific theory, then another, then another, then another. It wasnt even a conversation. The entire cast is annoying as frick and I hated them all. Alex is only endearing BECAUSE hes such a gormless c**t that it becomes funny again and thats not what the author intended. Theres a scene where literally every other character laughs at and pushes Alex into a lake, and its supposed to be a bonding exercise of "yeah lets get revenge on the jerk of the group lol!" but it just comes across as sociopathic because they are all pieces of shit too.
>They are all pieces of shit because the character who's explicitly an object quotes wikipedia and the black people provide an excuse to Alex for why only Alex gives a shit about Sammy
>dude you have to play through my terrible game with shit characters so you can witness the shit main character be a little less shit towards the end, or else games are for children
Or maybe.... It's just a bad game?
I've watched it 10x tbh. It's basically the best video essay on YouTube and Ganker recommended. If you're new to YIIK threads just know that YIIK lovers hate it
You think you know what the video is about before you even watched it.
It's both a comedy and informative video on game design. You're here trying to pull the "time wasting" bullshit when we're in the same board discussing failed video games, so don't call me incel because it just reflects back on you.
It's simply funny, probably the funniest video essay ever made. An the guy who made it is a game designer himself who brings up good info on history and technical shit. Analyzing a bad game is sometimes better than looking at a good game because a bad game had potential that it wasted and seeing what went wrong allows you to see and prevent these things from happening to your own projects.
It's Ganker recommended because it's been posted here for 3 years. If you weren't such a zoomer newhomosexual you would have already seen it.
I don't need to be informed on game design by youtube videos. I'm 41 years old and have been involved in successful mods and retail video game products
you kids literally do nothing but consume youtube. it is so sad. fricking 2 hour "essay" about a bad game. people like this arent funny lil bro, watch a comedian
7 months ago
Anonymous
Oh I didn't realize I was just talking to a schizo. you're 41 years old arguing about video games, why don't you raise your kids instead? Imagine calling someone a loser when you're literally wasting your time the same way as me.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>why don't you raise your kids instead?
let's not pretend people can't have extra time to spend on their leisures
7 months ago
Anonymous
Sure, it's just that you're a moron and should shut the frick up about telling people how to spend their time when some of us have time to watch YouTube while you're a homosexual neglecting his kids while also telling someone not to watch YouTube.
7 months ago
Anonymous
You sound like a homosexual and I bet the games you worked on were shit. But feel free to stay on Ganker telling people they're wasting their time when you should be raising children.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>moralgayging on Ganker about "muh kiddos"
7 months ago
Anonymous
>Noooo don't watch YouTube, watch a Netflix comedian
What a Souless existence you must live. I think you belong on Reddit instead.
The problem with Alex is flawed protagonists should have some redeeming qualities to make you root for them, but there's nothing good about Alex. He's a narcissistic dork who doesn't care about anyone else, has no sense of style or humor, and is just not likeable. Of course players are going to hate him when you give him no redeeming attributes
No, he's just coping. He wanted to make art but still pull slop numbers. You want to make a statement about something? Great, enjoy your audience of twenty people (half of whom don't even get it). That's the way it's always been. You have to choose between artistic integrity and commercial appeal and he's crying that he couldn't have both.
The issue with an unlikable protagonist is that for a character to be unlikable to the audience it would have to be insulting the viewer's intelligence.
I can't think of any game that has an unlikable protagonist with that rule in mind. Most of the characters that may come across as unjustifiable would be saved by the context of the story that is going on, making their actions reasonable.
And for succesful games that may have characters that are hard to tolerate, most of the time are multiplayer games that have a wide array of characters to choose from, so that makes it something completely different
How about an unlikable protagonist at first glance whos out to get revenge/kill everyone in his/her way indiscriminately but for a "good" to them reason?
Kratos from older God of War titles would be a good example, but he is still cool despite being a massive butthole with a rage boner. In fact it's why people got into the series in the first place. So this shows clearly that you can make an unlikable character, or a character that embodies negative traits, but in such a way that audience will still want to engage with him in spite of those traits. Andrew is a pseud and that's all there is to it.
Kratos isn't an butthole, but he's also characterized differently in some games. 1 game has him standing around while people die and then in another he saves the soldiers, etc. I honestly can't think of a time he was an 'butthole' without reason
>I honestly can't think of a time he was an 'butthole' without reason
That time he fed that wounded soldier into a spiked wheel trap? How about that time in GoW3 when he fed a hooker to a door crank?
Enemy soldier, Enemy hooker, wasn't she an oracle or slave to posiedon?
7 months ago
Anonymous
>Enemy soldier
Nope, was part of Jason's posse, badly wounded and was begging for kratos to help his fellow crew. Got fed into a death trap for his trouble >Enemy hooker
first thing she does is beg Kratos to leave her alone. Gets fed into a door crank
7 months ago
Anonymous
Was that just a regular hooker or the one who is the lock for the door until she dies? It's been a long time since i've played those games.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Poseidon's hooker. Really, he had no reason to do that to her when there were moving statues he could've used to jam the crank or wedge the door open or something. It was just pointlessly cruel and edgy
7 months ago
Anonymous
True enough. I don't really understand the games because like I said in one game he just watches his own 'team' of soldiers dying in the midst of war, but then in another he goes out of his way to protect them.
Most video games are not art, art is when it's something made of a 1 persons vision, some indie games can be art, but definitely not some AAA multi million dollar video game curated and hand picked people to develop propaganda for social engineering purposes.
>Postmodernist tries tries to make something with artistic narrative >Fails because postmodernism rejects narratives and this leads him to be unable to direct a clear vision >Copes by telling himself it wasn't his fault, it's that games can't communicate narrative
Like pottery. You can't make art if one of your principles is that there are no truths to communicate. How could your work have meaning of you believe there is nothing meaningful that can be said?
I think protags can be total c**ts as long as whatever they are doing is fun, and if they are driven to do something and make decisions. A character that lets story happen to them is boring as hell.
no shit gamers just want their selfish fantasies represented on screen and don't give a shit about "art." they're GAMES. I don't even understand why the fricking idiots here want them to be considered art seeing as how much they cry and mock when a game tries to have meaningful/impactful story elements. these dumb Black folk will never touch a book in their life yet they want EPIC SHOOT BAD GUY to be treated the same way as fricking papillon. games should be games and you homosexuals should frick off.
He very clearly says he made a mistake.
He was a fricking moron for thinking that a hobby could or should be art. It's just entertainment, and the dumbshit should have understood that instead of burrowing up his own ass hoping to find someone willing to defend his idiotic assumptions.
Can relate. Am 2d animator but there's just no good viable way to make money on youtube with animation with anything that takes quality, so instead i decided to make a game.
Thats what i mean exactly. The effort of animation that ill put in a game, even if its smaller form factor will likely sell more copies than i'd get from youtube ad rev. Hopefully.
Are you unaware that people were calling it YIIKes and the dev had a huge meltdown where he posted a wall of text explaining why you "can't say YIIKes because the name is Y (roman numeral 2) K in reference to the Y2K scare of the late 90"?
He literally changed the game on steam to have the "correct" spelling below the title in parentheses, to teach people how to say it correctly instead of "yiik".
>Make a game that looks like this >It regularly experiences massive framedrops when doing the minigame attacks >Every attack is a minigame attack >"It is the people playing my game who are wrong, not me"
I think he might be a little moronic.
attack is a minigame attack
playing devil's advocate here. I thought you millenial chucklefricks loved wacky attack commands like smrpg, paper mario, ttyd, etc.?
The difference is that usually simple attacks in those games only took a second to do with decent damage whereas in YIIK a simple attack took seconds just for little damage on mobs with tons of hp that they shouldn't have. It also doesn't help that a lot of the special attacks with different commands were dogshit to use and trash outside of LP toss after a certain point, Vella's boombox explosion move, and Claudio's sword attack move once you started recognizing the set pattern to deal damage with it.
People were just being greedy with their PP for no reason, in the release version of the game Vellas pong move Alex’s EP strike and Rory’s talk all can one shot things
The real problem is that Alex Yiikman is unlikable and passive, instead of unlikable and active. He's also a homosexual douchebag all the time, there's never a moment where you're supposed to be able to understand Alex or why he is the way he is.
Does the game even have unique or interesting mechanics or it's just a regular boring JRPG with all the focus on trying to look more interesting than it actually is?
His idea works, IF done right. It wasnt done right.
(1) It shouldnt be the main character in a GAME, because the player has to take control of them. It should be one of the main cast of characters,
(2) Next, ppl need to call out his bad behavior. If you dont, not only is it unnatural, it makes the players not trust the creator, as it seems like the creator even thinks its a good idea.
No. He honestly sounds pretty stupid and like he cares way too much about what strangers on the internet think about him and his game.
What a big fricking baby. The bolded statement at the end of this makes it sound as if he only started playing video games in the 2010s.
The new version of the game literally has a dude in a tank that may or may not be you distract you with girls with huge breasts and blasting nostalgia on you as a status effect and the cutscenes have been reworked to show Alex getting on an imaginary stage every time he rants and raves in his head
It is literally shitting the themes onto the player now
The existence of Spec Ops disproves Alex here in the most uncharitable way imaginable. >Game is effectively modern milquetoast retelling of Heart of Darkness. >Because games make you an active participant rather than a passive observer, it changes the impact that narrative events can have on the audience. >Devs recognize this and use this as an opportunity to needle the player a bit, effectively asking them why they're playing to begin with if everything they're doing is so horror. >It enrages dorks who are incapable of separating themselves from the protagonists they play because they feel personally attacked. >Hysterical liberal pseuds similarly behave like they committed actual warcrimes just for playing a video game, proceed write Ph.D. theses and 3 hour video essays about the game for a decade. >Meanwhile, reasonable human beings who can distinguish fiction from reality note that it's a decent game, and a good, if flawed, retelling of a classic piece of literature that features clever hook and uses it's medium effectively.
The problem is that Alex is an atrocious writer and it shows. If anything, YIIK proves that it doesn't matter how grand and philosophical your ideas are if you can't actually write a decent story around them. That's why most vidya storylines are utter bottom of the barrel slop, and why when passable writing does show it, everyone hails it as some kind of a masterpiece.
>The problem is that Alex is an atrocious writer and it shows. If anything, YIIK proves that it doesn't matter how grand and philosophical your ideas are if you can't actually write a decent story around them.
Yes he is so bad at making games that there are routinely 300 thread topics based around his art, and threads around something like Final Fantasy 16 die within 10 minutes. You have to re-frame your POV over what is effective storytelling. Everyone ITT attacking Yiik, your criticism is just about indie devs not having enough money to hire people to make it 'good'. It is typical gross elitism of capitalism creating monstrous people. I see it in other artforms like film and music as well. If you don't want indie art, then just stick to your big budget trash, don't simultaneously pretend you are giving indies a chance and then attack them for not being dumbed down garbage that appeals to the masses.
>Yes he is so bad at making games that there are routinely 300 thread topics based around his art
How does discussion disprove how bad it is? This is Redditor think, if you dislike something your job is to be quiet and move on. But no here, if something is bad people want to make fun of it. If it's embarrassing then it's extra fun to pick it apart.
You miss the point, but it is typical of the monsters that capitalism creates. Audiences believe THEY are the artists and that artists have to cater to them. In a healthy society, it is entirely the other way. The artist creates their world view. It is up to the audience to adapt to it and see where he is coming from. The script switch is exactly as he said in the OP, this has changed because videogames have been taken over by children
Personally I think he's a bad writer who mixed up unlikable with uninteresting. A character can be unlikeable but if that's all he has then I'm just going to get bored and then get annoyed with how boring said character is.
>YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO LIKE ALEX YIIK >YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO SELF-INSERT AS ALEX YIIK >There is a 10 minute monologue to the player where Alex YIIK tells you that you are also Alex YIIK
That's what's so dogshit about the game. The writer is just projecting onto the audience.
When I'm playing disco Elysium I'm sympathizing with Harry even though he's a frickups who deserves a mouthful for his behaviour. But the game is pointing at me through the screen saying "AND YOU'RE HARRY, STOP TAKING METHAMPHETAMINES AND ALCOHOL"
why the frick am I being insulted for what Alex has done?
Most "artsy" games are basically pic related.
It's some story with extra steps, where steps are not that impactful to the story. Devs do this because they think that you can immerse yourself in the story more in a video game. That is false, sure during the cutscenes you can relate to a protagonist but during most of the game protagonist is a tool through which you perceive gameplay, and not the good vessel for audience to relate to.
If you want to communicate art to player you need to do that through gameplay itself. Pathologic 2 was a best example of that. You have countless video essays abut it on youtube because it made you struggle and your struggles were related to the events unfolding in the game. So you were ACTIVELY experiencing the story, not through yourself relating to the protagonist, but through your actions and struggles during gameplay.
>make a shit game with even worse writing
>no it's the GAMERS (rise up) that are wrong
Oh, it's even worse than that. The entire thing reeks of self-depreciating-insert, and players shitting on the MC from start to finish by proxy is putting the lie to what he believes to be his own growth as a person. He's not fooling anyone.
Maybe he's a bad artist?
Frick being a bad artist. The real problem is "artists" that think they are philosophers or political geniuses and are trying to "make you think" or tell a moral story. They are ALL bad at it. And yet all post-modern artists are obsessed with it instead of doing actual good art.
I can't think of a single case, no matter how famous the artist, where I've been impressed by the novelty and depth of thought from an artist. Like Picasso's Guernica is great, but it's message of war 'n Spanish Fascism bad is extremely basic b***h. It would have been just as much a triumph if it was some romantic classical Roman inspiration a la rape of the Sabines or whatever. Duchamp was literally just a mid tier Ganker troll that got famous for being famous.
>Frick being a bad artist. The real problem is "artists" that think they are philosophers or political geniuses and are trying to "make you think" or tell a moral story. They are ALL bad at it. And yet all post-modern artists are obsessed with it instead of doing actual good art.
I don't think that you realize those subversive, postmodern paintings were also reviled in their time by the establishment. That is what Yiik does so well and why it's growing into a cult classic. It has triggered people more than anything by taking the onions archetype and turning it into a grand labyrinth of late stage capitalism, consumerism, and narcisissm. In Ganker they call it burger-punk.
>turning it into a grand labyrinth of late stage capitalism, consumerism, and narcisissm
YIIK wishes it got anywhere near to that
Sorry Andrew, having Vella read out 5 paragraphs of wikipedia articles about scientific terms as your exposition doesnt count as good writing
God you are such a midwit.
Define what late stage capitalism is and how it applies to YIIK, how is this a Labrinth?
I understand the narcissism. I think you're just pulling big words out your ass to sound smart.
An example of late stage capitalism would be cruelty squad. Because souls and bodies are all commodities and the main character has to eat organs to regain health out of punishment for wasting the company respawn machine as a mechanic for an easy mode.
YIIK just leaves money in the garbage. And not small change either, full bills. How is that late stage capital? You fricking doodle brain
This is either brilliant satire or the biggest pseud post I've ever seen.
Ww2 and ww1 art was good because there was a literal apocalyptic war happening that was destroying Europe on a scale never seen before since the black plague.
And even then the art was entertaining because it was so visceral.
Im no expert, but I appreciate when an artist tries to tell what he feels or believes rather than trying to force out something "thought provoking." If it provokes, then it does. If it doesn't, then it doesn't. Or evoke emotions or whatever. I wouldn't know where to draw a definite line where someone is being a tryhard to write something compelling, but I have my own line where I can gauge if the artist is trying too hard.
No, and he's not all that smart too, by the looks of it. Of course people will emote to art, fool!
>No, and he's not all that smart too, by the looks of it.
You only need to take one glancing look at the dungeons in Yiik to realize that. It takes a special kind of moron to put together something like mountain cave dungeon and think "yeah, this is good. People will surely enjoy this".
KWAB
didn't his attack animations take forever for no reason
This is pure cope
nah it is really not. Your problems ITT are you are taking it personally when he is talking directly about reddit morons and their consuume / vax / far left 'current thing' existence.
Your buzzwords have literally nothing to do with what he's talking about
Okay if you want to self-identify as the 'low IQ mindless consuming children'
why do the least talented, dumbest people think they are most qualified to talk about who is an artist?
You seem to be a really big fan of making up elaborate strawmen of people who disagree with you.
Poor bait, this post modern rpgay shit is absolute fricking basedcore, the developer is a numale redditor who can't write for shit
>why do the least talented, dumbest people think they are most qualified to talk about who is an artist?
because they have no idea what it means to create anything. this is their stupid and misguided way of trying to wrap their heads around the concept of creativity, which they lack
This is just another head to the Dunning-Kruger effect. Things seem simpler when you know nothing about them because all the details are abstractions you made up. And since you don't realize how little you know, you tend to be much more confident in assessments made from ignorance than from partial knowledge
The Dunning Kruger effect is nonsense you absolute moron. Students at a ivy league college were asked to rate how they did on a test. People who did poorly thought they did poorly, and people who thought they did well thought they did well. After performing this test multiple times the most extreme discrepancy he could get is on a test where he graded the "Inductive reasoning" of his students, a test where students with a average IQ of 125, managed to score 38/45 questions correct, and the average score was 24.
That jackass merely restated the "Better than average" effect when giving people a test that was assumedly fricking nonsense. Before you pretend like he's some fricking visionary, nobody (including him) even knows what the questions were, or how he graded them.
It was nonsense, and you're a fricking moron for basing your world view around it.
I'm not taking this shit from somebody who can't even post a picture that has a background.
Wait…do you think the guys name was Dunning Kruger?
Holy shit!
>The Dunning Kruger effect is nonsense you absolute moron. Students at a ivy league college were asked to rate how they did on a test. People who did poorly thought they did poorly, and people who thought they did well thought they did well. After performing this test multiple times the most extreme discrepancy he could get is on a test where he graded the "Inductive reasoning" of his students, a test where students with a average IQ of 125, managed to score 38/45 questions correct, and the average score was 24.
The fact you think this disproves the Dunning Krueger effect is literally an example of it lmfao
>Dunning-Kruger effect
nta. read the fricking study. it doesn't say "stupid think they're smart, smart think they're stupid"
Because when talking about art subjectively anyone can say they think someone's art is bad due to being displeasing to them. When talking about it objectively, the only real metric is "will anyone buy this?" and the answer is obviously not if the "artist" is b***hing and insulting potential customers.
Passing by and noticed a discrepancy here. The post you replied to did not insist that he was not an artist. On the contrary, it definitely referred to him as an artist. It simply posited that he's not a good one.
He didn't question whether he is an artist or not, moron. He said he's a bad artist.
Good on you for noticing it too, it's astonishing just how low the IQ of this place is.
but he is objectively a good artist. It is impossible to provoke so much discussion while considered to have failed. In film, literature, and music, this is extremely common, the difference is those works are considered masterpieces, because people do not mistake their discomfort for the quality of the material. See Captain Beefheart.
All the discussions about YiiK and its creator aren't about it though. No one cares about the content of the game other than its protagonist being a reflection of the author, something said author vehemently denies despite it being obvious. That and the purple prose.
He fails as an artist because all the discussion provoked by him and his game are about the external narrative surrounding a bitter millennial postmodernist claiming that the medium he made his piece in isn't actually art because he was mocked by the audience that engages with that medium. It's the same reason people give Andrew Dobson so much shit.
There is a ton of discussion whether the protagonist is sympathetic or not. The last time that this happened was in Breaking Bad. He has created a charcater that is truly provocative.
Trout Mask Replica is basically YIIK of music.
trout mask replica is just don van vliet's music done in his apartment ad hoc by zappa (who did it on purpose because he thought zany would sell). I don't think you understand much about beefheart's music.
frick off. captain beefheart is a great artist because his work is great, the discussion does not matter. YIIK is disliked because it's not well written no matter how literary his goals are. beefheart did not "make his work bad on purpose", he was an accomplished blues singer and songwriter who didn't give a damn about music theory.
Yiik is well written
no
Yes
“It’s too wordy” is not a criticism of the quality unless you believe it’s not conveying information relative to the word count (it is)
Not liking the subject matter is not a criticism of the quality either
from your point of view, no criticism is applicable and it's a great work despite everyone hating it. that's fine, but don't waggle your finger like a homosexual.
>no criticism is applicable
No, just not criticism that is moronic and baseless.
You come up with these gay rules that make no sense. Discussion doesn't equal masterpiece. That would mean forspoken was a masterpiece when most people were ripping it to shreds. YIIK is just an embarrassment.
If your rules were to be applied hen that means sonichu by Chris chan is a masterpiece.
I hope someone farts into your face one day
People had wildest theories about HL lore back in the day for more than a decade, and it's one fps game.
What a silly dude.
>Guy makes piece of media
>No one likes it because it is bad
>"Plebs just don't understand art"
Wouldn't be embarrassing if he was 17
But I'm sure this is a fully grown man
What does he think art is?
I don't know man, if I had made Yik when I was 17 I'd be changing my name.
You can smeer your shit on the canvas, and call it a critique of society. It's technically art, but it's shit, and everybody is going to mock you for it. Something being "Art" doesn't mean it's good.
It's not a maybe.
It's to the point where it's tired, and boring to write a artist going "You're not ready for my genius" as a way of making him look pathetic.
A fricking psychic space bee Alien drops down in the first few minutes of Earthbound. It's a bunch of japs foggy notion of America from cartoons.
Yeah, nobody has EVER made a game with a completely unlikable protagonist who is forced to learn to change. Nope. Never been done. Golly gee, this Andrew sure is a revolutionary.
Jack was always a lovable moron and the game is best when you pick the human route and he learns nothing by the end of the game
I learned Spanish guitar because of Radiata Stories. Amazing soundtrack
Jack is upstart, but not entirely unlikeable. Compared to Ridley he's a lesser b***h but they both got humbled real quick.
yeah this has been basic b***h jrpg stuff for decades already
I mean realistically, there aren't any human emotions/archetypes that haven't been already done a thousand times over.
The last time I played Grandia 2 I noticed it plays around a lot with spacing and cinematic angles compared with other JRPGs of the time
Nothing original, but still more than you expect
Did he even try to figure out why are they "triggered"?
no he's just coping by trying to adopt the point of criticism of his character as intended writing
I mean, he was right up until the first comma.
He dropped the ball on the actual character development part though. The YIIK guy doesn't have any transformation, never redeems himself, and continues to be a garbage selfish person up until the credits roll.
Also, Video games aren't art.
They are made up of art, but they are not art.
>Also, Video games aren't art.
>They are made up of art, but they are not art.
Wrong, they both contain and are themselves art
And to be clear, when I say games are art, I mean all games, electronic or otherwise. Baseball is art.
No, people love TWEWY, and I'm sure there's countless other games that have an annoying dick protagonist that grows as a person. Blaming people for "not getting it" is just a cope.
>Twewy
>Dick protagonist
Lol
Like he's kind of annoying but he's just going through basic JRPG "Friendship is cool actually!" plotline. Alex YIIK is legitimately meant to be unlikable and the kind of permanently damaged person who hurts everyone around them and is incapable of change.
>Like he's kind of annoying but he's just going through basic JRPG "Friendship is cool actually!" plotline
Neku legitimately almost kills an innocent girl out of his refusal to actually trust others at the very beginning of the game.
>VERY begrudgingly attacks somebody because he believes it's a "her or me" situation
>Is mentally 5 years old
>>VERY begrudgingly attacks somebody because he believes it's a "her or me" situation
Because he refused to actually listen to her in spite of her doing nothing to invite him trying to kill her (even when it’s under extreme stress of not wanting to die himself) while also trusting the words of somebody that just tried to have him killed moments ago.
Neku is being a paranoid moron in that scene but they make it clear he is not acting out of malice but misguided self preservation.
>Is mentally 5 years old
The point is Tales of the Abyss tells the exact story that the dude was talking about and it's one of the post popular entries in a pretty popular series.
for a facetious quote taken out of context, he's not far off
Alex YIIK doesn’t do anything worse than what James Sunderland did and people still hold up Silent Hill 2 as one of the best games ever made
No. The dude literally just dropped unedited murakami quotes in his game. It's one thing to have shit taste in literature and another thing entirely to not adapt your reference to your creation and just shove it in there with all the grace and thoughtfulness of a rap "musician" utilizing samples.
artists have never been misunderstood or criticized by the public
this is a problem unique to videogames
>is a piece of shit but transforms
He doesn't transform though, and him being a shitter isn't even the problem. The problem is he takes 10 fricking years to actually say anything.
He's right. Ebert was right. Games can never be art.
I've been watching a lot more movies lately, and no game, not even masterpieces like Riven or Outer Wilds, can match the emotional and thematic power of film.
Games could do this it's just that they generally dont
lol and movies can't even begin to compare to novels. morons need the moving pictures
The simple fact that you think something can or not become art at some point shows your complete ignorance on the topic.
No. You have to actually have talent and a well founded understanding of life to write a character who goes through a transformation like that. You can't just start the character off with the most putrid personality imaginable and expect your audience to want to spent the next several hours with this character so that he can "grow" in the last act. It has to feel earned and you have to actually want the character to get better. Most redemption stories are poorly done, and that's not limited to video games.
realizing games are toys that use art would be much better for everyone.
he's just a shitty artist
and he's been crying about this for 5 fricking years now and updating his shit game instead of moving on and making something new and less shit
it's seriously so fricking embarrassing and the only thing I can imagine that would be more pathetic is discussing quotes from this knuckle scraping mongoloid as if his opinion isn't worse than literal shit
you fricking moron
Should have partnered with Sony since only those guys understand art.
It would also be nice if these people knew what art is.
games arent art, but he was being whiney, not serious
When you're making a game with an unlikable protagonist on a journey you have to at least make the game fun, otherwise there is literally zero incentive to keep playing
>he is of course, intended to be unsympathetic
I genuinely don't get what this comic is trying to say
People write what they know but sometimes what they know sucks ass
I think what annoys me about Yiik discourse is there is this underlying idea that
>I don't like the subject matter
>Therefore the writing is bad
They writing of YiiK is objectively bad though.
It has very little to actually say but takes it's sweet fricking time trying to say it all while wrapped up in some of the least engaging gameplay ever.
>It has very little to actually say but takes it's sweet fricking time trying to say it
All text in Yiik that isn't just some randomass NPC is very information thick
>All text in Yiik that isn't just some randomass NPC is very information thick
BUT FRICKING POINTLESS
It is the very definition of pretentious it has the pretense of being deep or meaningful but is completely vapid
He's talking about Catcher in the Rye.
Oh duh. Now it makes perfect sense. Thanks Anon
I used to think that book was useless but its actually about getting raped as a kid and I guess its like handed out as reading in case your class has an abused kid and it helps them deal with the trauma or whatever. But for the rest of us its a big book of fricking nothing
Its literally just the I was pretending to be moronic meme but with more words. I think you're dumb bro.
Even if the people in his story are stupid that doesn't make the story itself stupid.
I agree with this post
How? Are you drunk?
This doesn't apply to YIIK, because Alex is genuinely supposed to be a piece of shit, and even admits it himself by the end. The writing sucks for other reasons.
intending characters to be unsympathetic is fine
what a lot of people don't understand is the characters can be whatever the frick you want as long as they entertain the audience
you can be entertained by a shitty character you hate that you don't root for
This becomes very clear in literature that manages to keep a shitty character Entertaining. A favourite of mine is Claire Zachanassian from The Visit.
Fight club is a great book, you don't need to sympathize with the characters
do you not? fight club characters are in the same category as joshua graham. sure the writer will kvetch if you associate with them but maybe they shouldn't have written them to be truth spitting badasses then?
What if you were this guy, and made yourself the villain that's in the wrong and gets his ass beat, and the main character some type of guy you really fricking hate? Would that work?
>andrew allanson on why his shitty game didn't sell
>Make shitty game
>People laugh at it for being shitty
>Waaah games aren't art anymore!
WHERE THE FRICK IS THE UPDATE ANDREW
YOU SAID THERE'D BE AN UPDATE
>A postmodern rpg
>Reddit frog
they didnt like my game therefore they are bad.
what a manchild.
yes
right but for the wrong reasons
video games are not art, they are supposed to be fun, not have a message
God love him, but what a turboautist. Story is the most important thing in a porno and it's the second most important thing in a video game. If Doom had've just been a 3D tech demo with none of the style or backstory that it had, no one would have given a shit
>Story is the most important thing in a porno
Stopped reading there. What the frick?
I guarantee that even if you're just jerking off to a pair of cow breasts, the context for your arousal within your own mind is what makes the image so interesting, not the literal milk bags. The extent to which you are aware of this is the extent to which you are human and not some dumb animal
the context is a woman with big breasts getting her breasts squeezed and moaning while riding cowgirl. That's it. Any more and you may as well jerk off to literotica
The real redpill is trying out literotica and realizing all you need at that point is just a couple of pictures for inspiration. The other anon is unironically right
>photo of a chick standing nude in a studio vs a photo of a chick standing nude in the middle of a grocery store
>photo of a nude woman's naked c**t vs an upskirt photo of a clothed woman's naked c**t
>a video of a woman jerking off in her bed vs a video of a woman jerking off while she's driving a car
Did you seriously forget that people tend to have fetishes?
You'd never read an NTR doujin would you?
This is especially moronic when talking about RPGs. If the only draw for The Elder Scrolls was its mechanics it would've been binned in 2002. Morrowind was objectively carried by its compelling alien world, the stories you could find in that world, and the increasingly insane esoteric background lore MK added through the 36 Lessons of Vivec.
No, this anon
is right
God I hate to say it but didn't Disco Elysium do jus this, only exceptionally better? Also gives you the option of remaining an butthole or becoming a booze-addled homeless miscreant.
Actually, you know what? FFVIII did it best.
Isn't this just scott pilgrim but worse
Never played Yiik and never will because the MC looks like a snoy wojak.
Nothing in the marketing suggested he was a character you were supposed to dislike or that the character designs were tongue-in-cheek. The game was called "A Postmodern RPG", not "Hipster Quest" or something. It's understandable that people would write it off at first glance. I'm still not sure how much of the hipster aesthetics and dialogue were ironic or sincere.
I have a feeling it was 100% sincere but with the backlash he pivoted to the "it was le ironic" defense
Either way, YIIK has hit cult classic status like it or not
>Yeaaaaaah I'm looking for this record. You've proooobably never heard of it...
What do you think anon
Games where someone who is a piece of shit and unlikable character, who by the end of the game has to transform?
He's not unlikable. He may be a bit of an ass sometimes but I never found myself not liking him
Ratchet is just wienery and he develops nicely till the end of the game, he's not unlikable at all
based trips of truth
>we... uh... still have to fix that arm!
FRICK
>I said, look, the plumber's back.
In this moment we can see Ratchet's character development, where he goes from being mean about someone's weight to appreciating his profession and the important maintenance work he does to keep society stable and secure.
Call of Juarez Bound in Blood
he's just coping because his game sucks
>I thought I should make unappealing game
>It didn't appeal to people
>Thus people are le bad!
Didn't he fricking succeed?
Hes absolutely right. Unless he was paid to make like pokemon rpg or something.
to these people "art" is synonymous with masturbatory fart-huffing.
you don't need to be super deep to be good art. halo 2 has a surprisingly compelling story, especially from the arbiter's perspective, and half that game was written around lines the writers thought sounded cool and action movie tropes.
Yes but the entire story has every characters actions mapped out even if they aren't mentioned or on screen. So the story ends up being very tight because they just cherry picked the most compelling or interesting scenes to show the viewer.
To the game's credit. Keeping track of where characters are and what they're doing even when they're not being observed is just good writing advice. The way Halo 2's plot is structured, with the perspective shifting between two characters on opposing sides of a conflict, just serves to highlight it.
Maybe he's just bad at writing. I mean TWEWY did the same thing and that's beloved.
Oh it's true, it's DAMN true.
What is art
Tales of the Abyss did it better this gay doesn't know shit
I agree that games aren't art but this dude is still a moron and his game sucks ass.
This is the only game ever I could say it's a piece of art
looks gay
So do you, except gayer
>my dogshit character transform into horseshit character
>now clap
I can smell this guy's salty pouty tears through this post
I'm still waiting on that vita port.
I'm still waiting on the "make the game good" update
The problem is the dev doesn't know how to make that sort of meaningful character growth because he's never undergone it himself. He's still the same insufferable hipster homosexual he was in middle school.
It's just the same as in comics, yeah yeah capeshit, but think about it. Heroics require self-sacrifice, and to the people writing heroes nowadays, self-sacrifice is blacking out your profile pic for a week in the name of Saint Floyd.
>make shit game
>it sells like shit
>people roast it because it's shit
>N-NO IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE SHIT ON PURPOSE, IT'S ART
>IT'S THE GAMERS FAULT, NOT MY OWN
Am I living through a fricking shizo episode or have people been trying to rehabilitate yiik in the past 2-3 years?
you're living through a schizo episode because nobody is trying to rehabilitate YIIK. In fact, it seems more like YIIK and the dev became a negative example
>rehabilitate yiik
The dev has been rehauling it with updates and the next (final?) update is supposedly dropping next month or so
So yeah, kinda?
Yes, I dont know what that is about.
It’s the Irony Trolls who pretended to like the game leading to morons that like the game to shill it.
It is the old adverb, Any community that gets its laughs by pretending to be idiots will eventually be flooded by actual idiots who mistakenly believe that they're in good company
I blame Oneyplays. His moronic fanbase love the game because he played it and are trying to make it a thing.
People just don't understand different mediums. If you make a video game, then the gameplay has to be art, not your writing. If you wanna write art then write a book.
How do you feel about catherine, which has several stages of gameplay follow by VN style scene and then repeat of gameplay?
literal troony game.
This may be the only time this is correct and not posted by some pol tard
Unironically Sekiro. It got swordplay down to an art, it really feels like a shounen "talk with your fists" dialogue type trope brought to the player.
Yup, this right here
Masterpiece
Despite the gameplay, catherine does have a lot of story/dialogue moments. I'd say those parts are about 50/50 even.
I'll go to bat for YIIK and say that the things it tries to do can't be done through a book
More than anything, this. Videogames are not books and they are not movies. They are art, but they cannot tell story and produce emotion the same way. That's not to say they can't do it to the same magnitude, but you have to understand that the pacing is different, the engagement is different. Cut scenes are a fricking disease to videogames, it's why Kojima simultaneously succeeds and fails with some of the best constructed games, and why fromsoft is accelerating into the stratosphere. You cannot frame shots, you cannot tell story through dialogue or soliloquy. The attention of the audience has to be goal oriented, relationships with characters have to be built by interaction. There are so many more options for making you feel things that are under-developed because all these studios are trying to be film because of some jawless old frick. Make me hate the villain because he's frustratingly hard, so that when he dies I can scream frick you at the screen, make me love the NPC because they help me when it's critical. Why the frick do people love solaire? Why does his death ring so profoundly? It's because he gives us hope when we're actually lost and frustrated in the early game. He's one of the first things in the game that isn't hostile. He helps us out in all of the toughest fights. We barely talk to him and there's no cutscenes, but we hate Gwynn at the end for his sake, for abandoning his children. That's art! Prince of Persia sands of time makes me feel things because of the dialogue IN GAME that shows a slow progression in the relationship. She helps us, gives hints, moves the story, we end up loving her, so her kidnap is motivating. Same for Cortana in Halo3 when we rescue her from the flood. Most modern game makers don't understand the medium they're working with, and they end up making soul-less slop because of it.
To go further, why do I respect Isshin of Ashina at the end of the game? There's literally one cutscene, but his best lines are thrown at me when he's trying to kill me. Why do we love midna from Twilight princess? Why don't I care about Ashley from RE4? The art of videogames has to be done through the mechanics of the game, your interactions with the characters are bigger than the sum of their dialogue and their cutscenes, and the time you spend playing is always bigger and more important than the "story" components. Zero dawn was good, because aloy was a loner, and it meshed well with her dialogue and the story components. More importantly, the game was very fluid, the mechanics worked, I felt like a wilderness survivor. Forbidden west is a giant piece of shit because the narrative components of the game don't match the gameplay, and because it's a giant open world of fetch quests and sloppy animations. No movie style directing can fix a sloppily produced incoherent game.
>why Kojima simultaneously succeeds and fails with some of the best constructed games,
I went on an autistic war path against death stranding for essentially having no story until the last fight which lead to a full hour of cut scenes of hamfisted acting and emotions. While simultaneously undermining his game's central mechanic because he felt he needed to make it playable for the actors he paid to act, even though they will never play video games.
artlet cope
if you write a book you are a writer, not an artist
if you make music you are a musician, not an artist
if you make movies you are a director, not an artist
if you make video games you are a game developer, not an artist
art is art, nothing else is
>a piece of shit unlikable character who by the end of the game has to transform
Your character can be a piece of shit, but not unlikable. Never unlikable.
An unlikable MC is tantamount to suicide
What about Caim from Drakengard 1, tho.
He wasn't unlikable though?
Being evil or immoral are not in anyway the same as being unlikable
Few things are a funnier sight than a wannabe artist with a chipped ego.
Didn’t realize Phil Fish had a (wife’s) son.
>intentionally makes unlikeable character
>people dont like it
>WTF WHY DONT PEOPLE LIKE THIS????
Is this what mental illness looks like?
>Intentionally make an unlikable character
>People don't like him
>"The writing is bad because it succeeded at what it wanted to do"
The writing is bad because your protagonist needs to be relatable in some way to connect with your readers. No one connects with a complete piece of shit, except maybe you.
he was being sarcastic and insincere, but the truth is BOTH,
videogames are both mindless toys for children and infantilized adults AND videogames are interactive autotelic experiences that can convey a story in an interactive way most mediums of art could only dream of.
Just like movies are both mindless pornography and cinema with deep and nuanced explorations of character.
It's fricking both.
Maybe. Hes being a whining b***h about it though
No, he made a game with a self insert
I think the mild redpill here is that you need smart people to write morons and good people to write homosexuals, Alex sure supposed to be unlikable, but he is also pretty stupid, and writing morons is very hard admittedly by every writer who took that job, when actual idiots start to write a dumb character you just get an annoying twat, because morons are annoying and you actually have to put in work to numb the infuriating experience of watching dumbasses, it might be even harder than writing smart characters, because you can make an intuitive(due to being natural) logical sequence and how believable it is depends on your skill, imagine writing chaotic lack of movement inside someone's head, that sounds complicated
Mike Judge, creator of the best portrayal of moronic people (Beavis&Butthead) said that it's hard to write them, due to them being stupid
Writing a morally lacking character means he needs to be either witty, charismatic, funny or handsome, if he literally none of this things, you just get an asswipe nobody wants to look at
Yes. He's a bad artist who tried to make a toy like art installation that he could sell for a ton of money. He's a bad artist because had nothing to communicate, the game was a narcissist who talked about himself, just shouting into the void, instead of invoking anything in the audience. Then he gets made at the audience for seeing what he didnt want them to in his work.
So like a real hipster. He will give up, whine to his hipster friends about it every chance he got, and chase the next trend instead of work on his art. That is why he is a bad artist and an butthole.
No. Just because it's art doesn't mean people will stomach your nasty shit. The word "art" isn't an excuse to pass off whatever trash and expect everyone must appreciate it because you slapped the label on top.
Haseo is not an unlikable piece of shit at any point. He had his own circumstances and Atoligays gaslight over that because at one point he got mad at her for wasting his time after he gave her a chance.
>who by the end of the game has to transform.
He really doesnt though. The end of Yiik is just odd(IIRC Alexs altnernate selves have are selfish so they destroy the world)and quite frankly too the MC isnt even a bad person,he is just more into himself than others which is where Yiik fricks up as they shouldve just made Alex an actually bad person. Thats what people want to see. Case in point, Huniepop where the characters had baggage and did shit like stealing, drugs and were territorial+aggressive.
Art isnt simply art just because its different and the majority dont even like to go by that. What the majority do like to go by is that Art entertains the viewer. Yiik did not want to understand that and gives the viewer a story about a guy who enjoys himself in a boring way and we see his journey that is filled with other boring people and things.
>Haseo is not an unlikable piece of shit at any point.
He was, in the beginning. Not a piece of shit, but definitely generally unlikable with the way he treated other players, not just Atoli. He was FAR LESS unlikable than Luke, however. Haseo represented the limit where the audience would still like the hero even if he acted like an butthole. Luke pushed past that limit specifically because he had no reason to be that much of a prick to everyone. If anything, having circumstances balancing a character's butthole behavior perfectly is what makes an acceptable butthole hero, who is still an butthole.
I agree luke became unlikable after he cut his hair and constantly apologized to everyone
Here's a real unlikable protagonist: Kills dolphins, drugs ex-girlfriends, kinda sorta a motherfukcer, feeds babies to kiddie eaters. But people dont hate his games or use that as a negative point because he is in a situation that often justifies it and he has a sympathetic goal. It's those points that allow the players to stand to watch him do altruistic things at his own detriment.
YIIK-man doesnt really seem to even have a goal. He just does things.
>He's unlikable
>But he's sympathetic
:^)
He said "sympathic goal", not "sympathetic character".
It doesn't matter, if a character has sympathetic goals it will make them sympathetic to the audience.
Actually a lot of people hate his games because of how much of an unrepentant piece of shit he is.
>and he has a sympathetic goal
She has nice breasts too
Killing dolphins is fair game, those things torture prey for fun
Isn't one of the main features of the game that he is a clone of the guy who's one of the game's main villains and exhibits all of the same douchebaggy tendencies, just from a different angle?
Video games are art when they are made by people who understand and love video games, not by people who can't make it in other medium yet have the temerity to act like making a video game is beneath them.
it's obvious he was baiting also why did i get banned for expressing my hatred towards Black folk i wasn't lying it's true
I think it's funny that his attitude is that people should accept and understand him by default and that it isn't his responsibility as a creator to win people over.
No. People love to gatekeep "art" like this guy. It's no different than an indie film-maker crying about how everyone buys tickets to Marvel movies. Art can be simple to digest. That doesn't mean it isn't art.
What this guy is trying to say is, "I tried to use a video game to communicate complex emotional and metaphysical themes. People didn't think it was fun, so no one bought my game. I thought people would buy it because of the themes, but I was wrong. People buy games because they're fun."
In context he isn't mad about the success of his game, he is mad people were dogpiling it over things that aren't true, and when people talk about the game they will just double down on things that are wrong or anti-intellectual to claim it's "objectively" bad. It's one thing to say "I don't like the game", it's another to say "the game has bad writing" and then not really be able to back it up.
Sure thing Mr. "Vibrating with Motion".
Your prose is shit, and the content of that writing is severely lacking as well.
yiikes
>by the end of the game has to transform
Well, I guess he did. Not because of any subtle characterization, not because he experienced any real character arc, not because of anything in the story, but just because, he's supposed to. He was a prick the whole time, and people called him a bad person. Then all his "friends" are taken away, and he goes "Damn, maybe I AM a bad person". Very deep.
No. His mistake wasn't thinking video games were art. His mistake was thinking that if he proclaimed his game was art he would have an excuse for why he made a pile of shit. He could use the excuse "You just don't get it". Instead he made a pile of shit and everyone knows this including himself.
He's the type of person who will never take full blame for his own failure. He will shift blame to others. Was he wrong? No, it was everyone else that were wrong.
>No, it was everyone else that were wrong
But they were wrong. People straight up lie about the game ex: Alex is a self insert xD
Self inserts generally don't have a voice. You make a few select choices but at no point is Alex not his own entity or a vessel for the player.
Author self-inserts are different from characters intended to be audience self-inserts.
A pretty obvious example of both is ASoIaF, where Jon Snow is intended to be a surrogate for the audience due to his relative naivety, while Samwell Tarly is clearly just gurm placed into his own setting.
All you claimed prior was Alex was a self-insert. you never clarified it as the devs self insert until now.
I'm NTA you were arguing with, I just thought it's weird to say that Alex isn't actually a self-insert because he's not a customizable blank slate straight out of a Bethesda game.
Author self-inserts are far more common than that kind of audience self-insert, since that can only ever be done in video games.
Alex IS Andrew. In the endgame, the Alex of Laziness is delaying finishing Chromophore, AACK's previous game. The only person who can be called lazy for not finishing it is Andrew. Nta btw
Nah, just pretentious
no
he was just that bad at writing
>Could my artistry be low quality?
>No! My only mistake was thinking the medium I chose was art!
Where's the fricking update, alex yiik
No, even taking him at his word, this is a problem faced in every art form. You make the main character unpleasant and hordes of people will say things like "this character sucks", "why would you tell a story about this person", "I find the main character unrelatable", "this is problematic", etc, etc.
It's especially hard for video games because people are less willing to put up with an unpleasant character the longer they stay that way, but also because being a participant in the character's actions, the player is especially likely to be frustrated when they don't understand why that character thinks they should act that way.
In other words, a flawed protag is always a challenge, especially in vidya. It's the artist's lack of skill or care that prevents it working.
Media is filled with unlikable characters that grow. This is such a common thing in movies and TV. It's a very successful story to tell in pretty much every other medium.
Yes, I understand that, but it's also something people complain about in every medium.
Catcher in the Rye's a famous example. People who can put up with Holden tend to get a lot out of the book. People who are too put off by fact that he's an agnsty self-pitying teen don't.
There's always someone complaining about everything but that doesn't mean the media is panned. Catcher in the Rye is a critically acclaimed classic. Yiik got fricked and the primary complaint was the unlikable characters. Now I think that if the game were better people would respond differently to the unlikable character however this is not the argument players were making so they should get shit on for their garbage critiques
I dig, but what he is (probably sarcastically) saying is "Games aren't art, I could have done this if I'd picked a real art form"
But real art forms get that shit all the time. Books that aren't Catcher are still widely hated for having unlikeable characters. Movies and tv shows get panned all the time for having unlikeable characters. An "unlikeable" main character is possible to succeed with in all of them, but it adds a layer of difficulty for the artist. The problem isn't that video games can't be art, it's that he failed to connect with his audience.
He's dumb but the context for his anger is that when the game came out everyone whined about how unlikable the main character was. His issue is that the character is intentionally unlikable and grows throughout the game. Now whether he accomplished this or not I have no idea but the criticisms of the game were weak and did kinda imply games couldn't be art because people demanded a lovable MC from the start even if that went against the point of the game. From what I've seen the game is shit regardless but the stuff he argued against was pretty moronic.
>His issue is that the character is intentionally unlikable and grows throughout the game.
He doesn't though. He starts out as an unlikeable piece of shit and ends the game as an unlikeable piece of shit. The only real change is he goes from thinking the world revolves around him to learning that the entire multiverse does in fact revolve around him.
>The only real change is he goes from thinking the world revolves around him to learning that the entire multiverse does in fact revolve around him.
That's intentional, all of these "revelations" take place inside Alex's head. The crux of the plot is that Alex is 25 and rapidly approaching the point of no return, and rather than deal with his issues he engages in schizo shit to distract himself.
no, he's just a dumb Black person who can't into visual storytelling ("this room is clearly a female's room", render is all bookcases), managing game friction (every action is wiener and ball torture and the payoff wouldn't even be compelling if the input was basic b***h Final Fantasy menuing) and also thinks that prose more purple than Gengar is somehow good writing (fricking "the elevator began to shake, vibrating with motion").
He doesn't improve at all, and arguably gets worse. And that's fine, that can be a great story, but when you yourself market the game as the "growth and evolution of an antihero into someone good" and then he just doubles down on being a homosexual, you gotta expect people mock you for it.
Too bad he thinks that alex is "good".
filtered
filtered.
art can do different things. you just demand every thing be the same way. maybe spider-man is more for your ilk, where the heroes and villains are cleanly drawn.
>you just demand every thing be the same way... where the heroes and villains are cleanly drawn
No, I absolutely don't. What I'm saying is that lots of people in every medium DO, and it's NOT UNIQUE to video games THAT they do. Even thought video games face additional challenges WHEN they try to feature an initially unlikeable protagonist.
NTA and i'm not accusing you. I do notice a trend where autists and/or a lot of people online tend to obsess over media that has mostly clear depictions of good and evil. For every Marvel and Star Wars gay there are anime fans who are into the same types of media, it's just Japanese. If it's not the sex/(self insert) dating animes, it's the shonen ones.
The self insert hate is possibly hypocritical because i know most of these dudes must be self inserting to some degree. They obsess over these anime girls and think Japan will be just like their favorite anime or JRPG.
A lot of black and white mentality. Little nuance or gray area. It's some sort of lack of understanding or dislike of media that doesn't have clear lines. Not liking things is fine, but these guys who focus on one thing only just sound so moronic when they talk about anything else. It's embarrassing to listen to and read.
I suspect some of it has to do with our times' critical culture generally. People feel to some extent that they're judged based on their tastes, and that they'll be judged as sympathizers if they don't condemn something where the main guy is "bad"
I mean, cheering for good guys and booing at bad guys is a basic human way to relate to stories, I just feel like people also have learned to amp it up as an artistic criticism in recent times out of personal social fears. No idea if there's anything to it, just a personal theory.
I get it though. While I personally get a lot of gratification out of trying to put myself in the place of people with different value systems, I can also see how for someone who mostly enjoys art as relaxing escapism, spending time with a difficult character could be unappealing.
I agree. I find myself liking some media with clear good and bad and some media that's gray. Depending on the media, i will like the good guys or the bad guys.
The political climate is very much like that right now. It pops up in real life, like whenever you see some moron who can't separate Nazi Germany from individual Germans during WW2 for example.
His mistake wasn't thinking that games are art, his mistake was thinking that art is subjective. Games are art, he just made shit art.
>his mistake was thinking that art is subjective.
art is totally subjective though. you are mistaking the lowest common denominator with objective quality. tricking morons with slop =/= art
everything that is slightly realistic can't be art
Why not?
dopamine
>was he right?
>YIIK director
no
>I thought I could be thought provoking
Except you had nothing to say. That's the problem, you didn't do anything that hadn't already been done before. People are fine with watching a character change, they are fine with someone that is an butthole or doesn't know what he wants to do. The problem is the not only is YIIK just fricking boring as shit, but the "growth" that this character goes through is a nothing burger. Stop trying to do "quirky RPG set in American city" because Earthbound did it. People didn't like Earthbound for those things.
I remember reading some manga about a girl that has low self esteem, she gets isekaied with a stacey and everyone tries to convince her that she has some good things about her too
The manga ends with the stacey being a genuinely good person and the mc just goes back to her world with low self esteem or something and I just wasted my time reading it.
If the author doesn't properly pace the growth of the shitty MC because they thought that the character needs to be the most unlikeable piece of shit, then the readers have the right to drop the garbage they're reading.
Earthbound and mother 3 are the only two games that come close to being considered art because they're both full character and plot experiences that could only be portrayed in the video game medium. The fact that it was a writer who made the games helps further this belief
>call it an rpg
>have character set in stone
No lt much of a role playing game is it?
yes. he makes his point in an asshurt millenial way, but he's right.
games are morons who get triggered at the slightest hint of depth showing its head inside their mindless bing bing or coom coom pastime.
Did the YIIK major Overhaul that was promised ever come? Been out of the YIIK-loop for a while
Yes, games should be about gorgeous girls with huge racks being saves by awesome straight dudes, full stop
The fact that Disco Elysium exists, was released around the same time, is the same genre, has a similar basic idea, has a much better artistic direction in every aspect, is more fun and is a million times better completely kills his argument.
This is just frustration being vented by lashing out at the people who disliked his game, even if you agree on him about games being art or not.
The difference is that Harry is a bad person objectively speaking, he's a chronically depressed drunk with severe anger issues who's done some despicable things, but he's still sympathetic right from the stard DESPITE that. I suppose the way skills work really helps to highlight the inner turmoil of trying to improve yourself and do the right things, but still failing or getting tempted to cause chaos at times.
he doesn't transform though
It's funny how quickly he pivoted into "don't worry guys, it's bad on PURPOSE, it's so bad it's GOOD haha I'm in on the joke now!" just like Tommy Wiseau did
>Tommy Wiseau
Frick me but did that guy age like milk. Weren't cokehead celebrities supposed to be youthful for longer? Those who survived, I mean. Rockstars don't count.
Andrew Wishes he could make Disco Elysium, but he grew up in the most milquetoast and aimless upbringing with zero life experience. He can't write very well and his idea of "good ideas" is just doing the opposite of what other people are doing. He misunderstands deconstruction and subversions as just last minute twists and mysteries with no payoffs.
Making one of your first games a deconstruction of the concept of "RPGs" before you even make your first RPGs, is going a step too far. Also how the frick can you deconstruct a video game genre, that makes no sense. It's like saying "I invented a sport that deconstructs soccar"
YIIK is halfbaked and experimenting is fine but the story and pacing is fricked and he really should have tried to do a basic story outline with well thought out arcs and events rather than cram in "ideas" til they ran out of time
Seems that you went in with expectation it would be like everything else, instead of open to a different kind of experience. Your criticism is of your own close mindedness.
your bait isn't going to work on me shitposter-kun!
You absolutely can deconstruct a vidya genre, the problem is that you need to understand the genre before you can deconstruct it, and Andrew clearly does not understand the genre, or video games, or visual arts, or writing.
>You absolutely can deconstruct a vidya genre
What's a good example of this other than 2smart4u meta-games where (You) were the dead purple bone kid all along?
>inb4 Spec Ops: The Line
That one is only a subversion regarding the story; all the gameplay mechanics are bog-standard 3rd person shooter nonsense.
Disco Elysium was a brilliant deconstruction of RPGs.
Cruelty Squad may not be the first but it was a notable example of subverting video game tropes.
>The genre is basically boiled down to a set of tropes, conventions and a typical premise. All of these features are then played straight; without shying away from any unpleasant consequences and/or causes of these features. Basically, the heart of the genre is laid bare, warts and all. It is not solely done to denote how unpleasant a genre or trope is, but to break away from the clichés and stock themes said genre or trope has acquired.
>Merely making a genre Darker and Edgier is not the same as deconstructing it. To deconstruct a genre, the essential elements of the genre must be clearly demonstrated and taken to their most logical conclusions, and this causality must be plausible. If the Trope Maker or Trope Codifier deconstructs itself (or at least seems to), then you've got an Unbuilt Trope.
>Andrew clearly does not understand the genre, or video games, or visual arts, or writing.
Maybe according to you, but he released a videogame people are still debating over and got pretty solid reviews.
He is battling reddit and their restless hunger for mediocrity, their fear of the new, and their hivemind group think, nothing more.
It was a well received game, only among redditors is there a perception that it is a failure.
this was after he patched it for years and a lot of the positive reviews are out of pity for him being bullied by the entire internet.
My guy, he put Postmodern in the name, and charged 20 bucks for a RPG maker game with a redditor protagonist.
Doing that stuff helps with your steam reviews. The vast, and I mean vast majority of people on gods green earth know that game isn't worth their 20 dollars. The only people who'd be willing to pay for that game to even leave a review are already weirdos.
Out of postmodernist reddit users who want to play as a redditor protagonist with a strong lesbian black mary sue giving marvel quips. 30% of THOSE PEOPLE didn't like the game.
Do you have any idea how low these people's standards are? They gave Garfield Kart better reviews.
In what fricking planet is this an RPG maker game?
It's a insult to RPG maker games. A lot of them look way better. Buddy, and Brad are also bad people. Buddy arguably is the most evil protagonist in any video game ever, and people love that game.
People loved Lisa, and that game has the protagonist literally committing genocide, mascaraing pacifists, abusing people who trust them. I don't know of any game that features more of a monster.
>debating over
you're misunderstanding the thread probably because you have terrible reading comprehension.
nobody is debating anything, there's no conflict. Everyone agrees the game fricking sucks. What every YIIK thread has been was just speculation on what went wrong.
>and got pretty solid reviews.
reviewers panned the game and abandoned him with 6/10 scores while steam reviews were mixed for years. This game will never be a cult classic no matter how hard you try to gasligh people.
YIIK is a monument to Hubris and entitlement. It's not a landmark, it didn't accomplish anything, it's simply a social study on what went wrong and how to avoid doing what it did.
the only debate is over the exact depth of Andrew's total failures, the only element of the game that even a layman cannot spot damning flaws in with a cursory glance is the song he wrote that plays in the trailer.
For real, I've played deconstructions of genres. Cruelty Squad was a subversive piece of media that was awesome. Disco Elysium was an amazing deconstruction on RPG leveling and Dialogue.
Andrew just made a literal rip off of Paper Mario and called it a day. No play testing, no demo for feedback. ACK studios just acted so fricking entitled towards criticism.
>It's like saying "I invented a sport that deconstructs soccar"
The one who dives the most wins :^)
Prototype had a piece of shit unlikeable player character who somehow grew on people, so no, he's wrong.
>post modernist
>"Why didn't anyone like my crap?"
He's right. Saying games are art is how we get interactive movies and people like Cuckman in the industry
He is kinda right, gamers in general are insanely butthurt if you do anything different, that kind of mentality doesn't really exist in literature, movies or comics. Okay, maybe some capeshit comics and movies.
>that kind of mentality doesn't really exist in literature, movies or comics.
it does exist in those mediums as well, but the game community is a way bigger and far more toxic hivemind than those.
He isnt right, there is a large enough subset of gamers who will appreciate a nuanced story and different way of playing AS LONG AS ITS GOOD.
Thats the core issue with YIIK. Even if you set aside the awful character writing, the game itself fundamentally feels bad to play and it used to feel way worse before he patched it.
This was a single random encounter combat on launch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ry-XP7YeoQM&ab_channel=ThatswhatV2isfor
He obviously did look inwardly and understand WHY the game was disliked, and its disengenious of him to say "They didnt like the game because they were triggered" as a defense while simultaneously clearly understanding that its bad
It's called a cult classic. There is not just one way of being good and one way of being bad. There are entire niches and subcategories. Look at music genres, people there are able to say this genre is not for them. Yet in videogames the hive-mind assume that everything is for them and failed to please them.
Stop calling it a cult classic. YIIK is a cult classic as much as forspoken was game of the year.
If the amount of people who openly hate something out number the amount of people who can only argue "it's kinda alright" then that's not a cult classic.
Can you name a single thing YIIK did that makes it stand out positively? Can you describe what it did that was different and bold and striking that makes you want to replay it?
It made me yik
YIIK is a cult classis because its ideas unintentionally border on complete absurdity. "NO ONE CARES ABOUT YOUR DEAD SISTER" is played completely straight within the game, but its the most hilarious shit to anyone playing it. Same with the moronic lemonade llama that was laughed at (because its funny as frick) because its so utterly moronic but its played like a serious scene.
>There is not just one way of being good
Story and theme wise I agree. But gameplay can feel bad, and its much harder to make gameplay in a turn based RPG bad to some people and good to others. Especially when the complaint is "it takes too fricking long"
There absolutely is enjoyment to be found in YIIK, but its not from where the creator intended very similar to The Room. However unlike The Room, its a lot more divise because you have to actually play YIIK which isnt fun, while with The Room you just pop it in and play. The creator is just in denial with his creation sadly.
>The creator is just in denial with his creation sadly.
You all trying to make it the videogame the Room is a failure. Again real people on steam, amazon, and switch, think that it is perfectly fine. It is only a small group of autists who hate it because he exposed you for being plebs and the onions boy character hits too close to home for you.
>Again real people on steam, amazon, and switch, think that it is perfectly fine
No they dont. I dont understand what your point is here. Are you aware of how much he changed because of the mass feedback about how the game was designed? I feel like im talking to someone who just read a wiki article or watched a youtube video. Do you even know how much fricking shit hes changed because of how much it was laughed at?
I don't think the guy you're talking to realizes. The initial combat was such a soul sucking slog. It's still bad to this day after many improvements.
The fact that hes not responded probably means I hit the nail on the head and he was talking out of his ass
>doesn't really exist in literature, movies or comics.
Yes it does
The issue is that every single character in YIIK is a piece of shit and unlikeable. Alex is just the biggest one. Alex also doesnt learn, hes a massive c**t up until the end of the game.
Its hard to like or feel compelled by any character in YIIK.
He also brings up how Alex always talks like a smarmy dictionary trying to fill a word count but EVERY character does that too.
Can someone name an unlikeable character who you enjoy?
As Robert Downie JR put it in Tropic Thunder "Don't go full moron"
Alex is full moron. There's really nothing to enjoy about his character.
Corvo from 9th Gate can walk into a room and see a friend of his deceased friend hung with a telephone cord, and he's simply walk over to check his wallet before leaving.
Harrier Dubois from Disco Elysium pissed away all his friends, is actively high and might have suggested casual sex to a potential rape victim. But he's probably the most beloved character on Ganker because of his heart of gold.
There's really nothing to redeem Alex
The narrator from Fight Club, Harry Potter, Naruto, Sarah Kerrigan, Arthas Menethil.
he sounds bitter because his concept is not deep or good at all lol. Simply a loser who couldnt compete.
There is plenty of butthole characters that grow up and they do it in a kino way. Also post-modernism is marxist trash subversive ideology no wonder why it didnt land.
This, post modernism comes off as a hack concept to try and sound smarter. The only game I played that was post modern was cruelty squad and it was a farcical journey of a Hitman who's body and soul were both commodities that he needed to reclaim so he could dismantle the established hierarchy of his world and restart anew. Only his cycle would repeat endlessly until he went insane.
No because The World Ends With You had the exact same character arc except that game was actually fun and enjoyable.
>Was he right?
>my mistake was thinking that video games are propaganda vehicles for my views
>i wanted to make a game about a lil' chuddy chud who by the end is castrated
>the chud audience i wanted to propagandize and influence didn't like my subversive ways
>i got caught and called out as the subversive piece of shit that i am, so i'm going full scorched earth
>make shit game
>seethe immensely when people dont like your shit game
Yes.
But by accident. His game was always shit.
There's a ton of games where a character is not just unlikeable, but unredeemable and not actively seeking redemption, and they're viewed positively and artistically. The original God of War trilogy for example, or even recently the Last of Us games? His problem is that he wrote a character with his worst and "best" traits into the game, then when told he's still a c**t all the way through the game, he threw a tantrum.
there's also the fact that Alex never really drives the plot, which is a fatal flaw for someone who's supposed to be the main protagonist.
No, he's wrong. Games are art. His game just sucks and is shitty art, but that's his fault.
No. Of course they're art. But it sounds like he wanted to write a book or film and is complaining that it wasn't well-received in a different medium. Imagine writing a long description of a painting and deciding books aren't art if it wasn't well-received.
Games are interactive, so putting people into the role of a "piece of shit unlikable character" who "has to transform" isn't going to play as well as it would in non-interactive mediums.
Video games sure are art.
But YIIK is bad art.
This moron forgot the first rule of subversive art, you don't get popular until you're dead.
This is not good rage bait since the girl is not white.
His game is bad and he should feel bad. Ff4 has a black Knight transforming into a paladin and it's considered on of the best games ever made.
He should have just embraced the memes instead of pretending his game didn't suck. Like The Room guy
>i made something that i perceive as a high-quality serious game but gamers hated it therefore gamers don't like high-quality serious games
i know you're baiting but i'll bite - of course he wasn't right, the problem with YIIK isn't that it tackles specific themes, it's that it does it in a bad way and the fact that andrew is complaining the way he is shows how much of a pseud he is
that, or he's baiting for attention
>it's that it does it in a bad way
Lol look at this thread
People say Alex is a bad character because he fails to change. That is 100% an issue with subject matter, not execution.
it's not enough to have a bad character in the story to make that story good
as for "in a bad way", that refers also to gameplay, not only the story, since the two are connected
I agree the gameplay is bad
If people were just saying the gameplay is bad I wouldn’t really take any issue with what people say. But they don’t, they talk about the story in isolation.
give me a qrd on the complaints about the writing
It's just boring and cringe. Alex isn't some Machiavellian schemer, he's not a thief, he's not a fallen hero who's consumed with revenge.
He's just some guy who graduated liberal arts which the writer uses to be some weird strawman caricature of smarmy liberal hipsters. At best he's just some boring doofus who's still figuring out his life and has no goals or direction.
At worst he ocassionally says something mildly racist and somewhat sexist because he grew up in a small town that was largely homogeneous.
The writer thinks he was taking us on some odyssey into the fascinating life of a deep and complex anti hero. But hefails to make Alex remotely appealing to anyone. If he was actually unapologetically racist and sexist he'd be more entertaining. There's really nothing to praise YIIK on. This will never be a real cult classic because that implies a positive connotation. YIIK is like forspoken in that it's an embarrassment and a monument to just shit ideas.
>People say Alex is a bad character because he fails to change. That is 100% an issue with subject matter, not execution.
>Author himself says the character is supposed to change
Also, its the fact that every character in YIIK is unlikeable and a piece of shit. The dev is saying "no Alex is supposed to be like that", but EVERY character is like that, its indicative of poor writing and complete failure to understand how his work will be percieved. Alex has his pretentious wording and monologues tackled and rivalled constantly by other characters
This is historical revision people have run with in order to double down on their opinions, not something that’s true.
>historical revision
You havent even played the fricking game have you. Vella is the most insufferable in it, but every single party member talks down to you or spews out wikipedia ChatGPT levels of nonsense down your throat at some point. Claudio and Chondra being weeb Blacks who cant stop talking about "wypipo dont care about us"
My eyes rolled back into my head with force when Vella's monologue explaining multiverses turned into her wikipedia explaining one scientific theory, then another, then another, then another. It wasnt even a conversation. The entire cast is annoying as frick and I hated them all. Alex is only endearing BECAUSE hes such a gormless c**t that it becomes funny again and thats not what the author intended. Theres a scene where literally every other character laughs at and pushes Alex into a lake, and its supposed to be a bonding exercise of "yeah lets get revenge on the jerk of the group lol!" but it just comes across as sociopathic because they are all pieces of shit too.
>They are all pieces of shit because the character who's explicitly an object quotes wikipedia and the black people provide an excuse to Alex for why only Alex gives a shit about Sammy
>people didn't like my game
>therefore the entire medium of gaming is not valid
>dude you have to play through my terrible game with shit characters so you can witness the shit main character be a little less shit towards the end, or else games are for children
Or maybe.... It's just a bad game?
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There's really nothing left to be said after this was posted.
>basedbearded glasses man
no wonder why it flopped, he self inserted
>2 hours
what the frick?
I've watched it 10x tbh. It's basically the best video essay on YouTube and Ganker recommended. If you're new to YIIK threads just know that YIIK lovers hate it
>I've watched it 10x tbh
????? i can't even understand you kids
why would you watch something like this once let alone multiple times
>Ganker recommended
uhh i dont recommend you sit around watching 2 hour "Video essay" about failed bad games
this is incel shit, its like celebrating being an incel and a loser.
You think you know what the video is about before you even watched it.
It's both a comedy and informative video on game design. You're here trying to pull the "time wasting" bullshit when we're in the same board discussing failed video games, so don't call me incel because it just reflects back on you.
It's simply funny, probably the funniest video essay ever made. An the guy who made it is a game designer himself who brings up good info on history and technical shit. Analyzing a bad game is sometimes better than looking at a good game because a bad game had potential that it wasted and seeing what went wrong allows you to see and prevent these things from happening to your own projects.
It's Ganker recommended because it's been posted here for 3 years. If you weren't such a zoomer newhomosexual you would have already seen it.
I don't need to be informed on game design by youtube videos. I'm 41 years old and have been involved in successful mods and retail video game products
you kids literally do nothing but consume youtube. it is so sad. fricking 2 hour "essay" about a bad game. people like this arent funny lil bro, watch a comedian
Oh I didn't realize I was just talking to a schizo. you're 41 years old arguing about video games, why don't you raise your kids instead? Imagine calling someone a loser when you're literally wasting your time the same way as me.
>why don't you raise your kids instead?
let's not pretend people can't have extra time to spend on their leisures
Sure, it's just that you're a moron and should shut the frick up about telling people how to spend their time when some of us have time to watch YouTube while you're a homosexual neglecting his kids while also telling someone not to watch YouTube.
You sound like a homosexual and I bet the games you worked on were shit. But feel free to stay on Ganker telling people they're wasting their time when you should be raising children.
>moralgayging on Ganker about "muh kiddos"
>Noooo don't watch YouTube, watch a Netflix comedian
What a Souless existence you must live. I think you belong on Reddit instead.
have a nice day newbie zoomer moron.
bait
it's barely longer than a movie
The problem with Alex is flawed protagonists should have some redeeming qualities to make you root for them, but there's nothing good about Alex. He's a narcissistic dork who doesn't care about anyone else, has no sense of style or humor, and is just not likeable. Of course players are going to hate him when you give him no redeeming attributes
the problem with alex is that he is a numale
No, he's just coping. He wanted to make art but still pull slop numbers. You want to make a statement about something? Great, enjoy your audience of twenty people (half of whom don't even get it). That's the way it's always been. You have to choose between artistic integrity and commercial appeal and he's crying that he couldn't have both.
He doesn't have the skill to pull off either of them, lmao.
The issue with an unlikable protagonist is that for a character to be unlikable to the audience it would have to be insulting the viewer's intelligence.
I can't think of any game that has an unlikable protagonist with that rule in mind. Most of the characters that may come across as unjustifiable would be saved by the context of the story that is going on, making their actions reasonable.
And for succesful games that may have characters that are hard to tolerate, most of the time are multiplayer games that have a wide array of characters to choose from, so that makes it something completely different
How about an unlikable protagonist at first glance whos out to get revenge/kill everyone in his/her way indiscriminately but for a "good" to them reason?
Sure, why not? See Copen Kamizono
Kratos from older God of War titles would be a good example, but he is still cool despite being a massive butthole with a rage boner. In fact it's why people got into the series in the first place. So this shows clearly that you can make an unlikable character, or a character that embodies negative traits, but in such a way that audience will still want to engage with him in spite of those traits. Andrew is a pseud and that's all there is to it.
>you can make an unlikable character
>but only if they are actually likable and serve as a power fantasy
Kratos isn't an butthole, but he's also characterized differently in some games. 1 game has him standing around while people die and then in another he saves the soldiers, etc. I honestly can't think of a time he was an 'butthole' without reason
>I honestly can't think of a time he was an 'butthole' without reason
That time he fed that wounded soldier into a spiked wheel trap? How about that time in GoW3 when he fed a hooker to a door crank?
Enemy soldier, Enemy hooker, wasn't she an oracle or slave to posiedon?
>Enemy soldier
Nope, was part of Jason's posse, badly wounded and was begging for kratos to help his fellow crew. Got fed into a death trap for his trouble
>Enemy hooker
first thing she does is beg Kratos to leave her alone. Gets fed into a door crank
Was that just a regular hooker or the one who is the lock for the door until she dies? It's been a long time since i've played those games.
Poseidon's hooker. Really, he had no reason to do that to her when there were moving statues he could've used to jam the crank or wedge the door open or something. It was just pointlessly cruel and edgy
True enough. I don't really understand the games because like I said in one game he just watches his own 'team' of soldiers dying in the midst of war, but then in another he goes out of his way to protect them.
Kratos is a c**t, but he is also awesome, he
has pathos. He is a puppet of fate and have
some tragedy in him.
YIIK is just a c**t.
>total head b***h in charge
>doesnt change in most endings
>only doubles down
>enjoyable as hell
it's weird because I got the intention that Alex was somehow written to be likable. Which is fricking confusing because he isn't.
>Vibrate with motion
>leftist makes "piece of shit unlikeable character"
>it's based on himself
Trve pottery, lol
Most video games are not art, art is when it's something made of a 1 persons vision, some indie games can be art, but definitely not some AAA multi million dollar video game curated and hand picked people to develop propaganda for social engineering purposes.
>Postmodernist tries tries to make something with artistic narrative
>Fails because postmodernism rejects narratives and this leads him to be unable to direct a clear vision
>Copes by telling himself it wasn't his fault, it's that games can't communicate narrative
Like pottery. You can't make art if one of your principles is that there are no truths to communicate. How could your work have meaning of you believe there is nothing meaningful that can be said?
You don’t understand Postmodernism
The game is about the conflict between Alex’s personal belief system and objective reality
This games protag was a truly awful human being but it was still fun
I think protags can be total c**ts as long as whatever they are doing is fun, and if they are driven to do something and make decisions. A character that lets story happen to them is boring as hell.
Art doesn't exist
no shit gamers just want their selfish fantasies represented on screen and don't give a shit about "art." they're GAMES. I don't even understand why the fricking idiots here want them to be considered art seeing as how much they cry and mock when a game tries to have meaningful/impactful story elements. these dumb Black folk will never touch a book in their life yet they want EPIC SHOOT BAD GUY to be treated the same way as fricking papillon. games should be games and you homosexuals should frick off.
He very clearly says he made a mistake.
He was a fricking moron for thinking that a hobby could or should be art. It's just entertainment, and the dumbshit should have understood that instead of burrowing up his own ass hoping to find someone willing to defend his idiotic assumptions.
All modern art is shit.
Why would I WANT my games to be shit?
>i wanted to make a movie but i'm shit at everything so i can't make a shit game because people get triggered
woe is me woe is me
Can relate. Am 2d animator but there's just no good viable way to make money on youtube with animation with anything that takes quality, so instead i decided to make a game.
>Hollow Knight
>Hue
>Milo and the Magpies
There's plenty of options for eyecandy games, anon. Go for it.
Thats what i mean exactly. The effort of animation that ill put in a game, even if its smaller form factor will likely sell more copies than i'd get from youtube ad rev. Hopefully.
>YIIK
More like yikes
Are you unaware that people were calling it YIIKes and the dev had a huge meltdown where he posted a wall of text explaining why you "can't say YIIKes because the name is Y (roman numeral 2) K in reference to the Y2K scare of the late 90"?
He literally changed the game on steam to have the "correct" spelling below the title in parentheses, to teach people how to say it correctly instead of "yiik".
it will always be yiik (pronounced yick) to me. IDK how he thought people would read it any other way.
What this guy said, it will always be YICK to me.
Everyone including the devs call it Yick
The characters insisting it’s Y two Kay is a joke
He's right tho. Roger Ebert said years ago that video games could never be art. If anything Andrew was slow for taking this long to realize.
you cant excuse bad writing by saying that you are suppose to hate the character
>Make a game that looks like this
>It regularly experiences massive framedrops when doing the minigame attacks
>Every attack is a minigame attack
>"It is the people playing my game who are wrong, not me"
I think he might be a little moronic.
attack is a minigame attack
playing devil's advocate here. I thought you millenial chucklefricks loved wacky attack commands like smrpg, paper mario, ttyd, etc.?
obviously not
I think you're overly focused on the
>every attack is a minigame attack
part and not the
>massive framedrops every minigame attack
part
that shit's for zoomoids who grew up on the N64 and would rather kill themselves than use a menu
The difference is that usually simple attacks in those games only took a second to do with decent damage whereas in YIIK a simple attack took seconds just for little damage on mobs with tons of hp that they shouldn't have. It also doesn't help that a lot of the special attacks with different commands were dogshit to use and trash outside of LP toss after a certain point, Vella's boombox explosion move, and Claudio's sword attack move once you started recognizing the set pattern to deal damage with it.
People were just being greedy with their PP for no reason, in the release version of the game Vellas pong move Alex’s EP strike and Rory’s talk all can one shot things
>make shit game
>cope and seethe
>who by the end of the game has to transform
Only in the deleted ending where he thanked (you).
>games aren't art, they're toys
Toys are art.
Games are art when they are made by artists (like me).
>chasing after dicky
the patrician choice
>Games aren't art because my game was provocative and people who couldn't understand it got mad
So just like a proper artform?
lol he is purposefully unlikable
The guy wearing a shirt of the developer's own game is a stand in for people who wear Zelda shirts from GameStop
The real problem is that Alex Yiikman is unlikable and passive, instead of unlikable and active. He's also a homosexual douchebag all the time, there's never a moment where you're supposed to be able to understand Alex or why he is the way he is.
Does the game even have unique or interesting mechanics or it's just a regular boring JRPG with all the focus on trying to look more interesting than it actually is?
It purposely chose to have shitty mechanics that suck and are boring to play.
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The new version of the game has a card based battle system with Grandia style timing
What’s the best YIIKlike?
Games don't need good writing. See Baldurs Gate 3
Please be a real quote. This display is exactly why he was destined to fail.
His idea works, IF done right. It wasnt done right.
(1) It shouldnt be the main character in a GAME, because the player has to take control of them. It should be one of the main cast of characters,
(2) Next, ppl need to call out his bad behavior. If you dont, not only is it unnatural, it makes the players not trust the creator, as it seems like the creator even thinks its a good idea.
No. He was a butthurt pseudointellectual that made a bad story and lashed out after being rightfully mocked.
No. He honestly sounds pretty stupid and like he cares way too much about what strangers on the internet think about him and his game.
What a big fricking baby. The bolded statement at the end of this makes it sound as if he only started playing video games in the 2010s.
The new version of the game literally has a dude in a tank that may or may not be you distract you with girls with huge breasts and blasting nostalgia on you as a status effect and the cutscenes have been reworked to show Alex getting on an imaginary stage every time he rants and raves in his head
It is literally shitting the themes onto the player now
The existence of Spec Ops disproves Alex here in the most uncharitable way imaginable.
>Game is effectively modern milquetoast retelling of Heart of Darkness.
>Because games make you an active participant rather than a passive observer, it changes the impact that narrative events can have on the audience.
>Devs recognize this and use this as an opportunity to needle the player a bit, effectively asking them why they're playing to begin with if everything they're doing is so horror.
>It enrages dorks who are incapable of separating themselves from the protagonists they play because they feel personally attacked.
>Hysterical liberal pseuds similarly behave like they committed actual warcrimes just for playing a video game, proceed write Ph.D. theses and 3 hour video essays about the game for a decade.
>Meanwhile, reasonable human beings who can distinguish fiction from reality note that it's a decent game, and a good, if flawed, retelling of a classic piece of literature that features clever hook and uses it's medium effectively.
The problem is that Alex is an atrocious writer and it shows. If anything, YIIK proves that it doesn't matter how grand and philosophical your ideas are if you can't actually write a decent story around them. That's why most vidya storylines are utter bottom of the barrel slop, and why when passable writing does show it, everyone hails it as some kind of a masterpiece.
>The problem is that Alex is an atrocious writer and it shows. If anything, YIIK proves that it doesn't matter how grand and philosophical your ideas are if you can't actually write a decent story around them.
Yes he is so bad at making games that there are routinely 300 thread topics based around his art, and threads around something like Final Fantasy 16 die within 10 minutes. You have to re-frame your POV over what is effective storytelling. Everyone ITT attacking Yiik, your criticism is just about indie devs not having enough money to hire people to make it 'good'. It is typical gross elitism of capitalism creating monstrous people. I see it in other artforms like film and music as well. If you don't want indie art, then just stick to your big budget trash, don't simultaneously pretend you are giving indies a chance and then attack them for not being dumbed down garbage that appeals to the masses.
>Yes he is so bad at making games that there are routinely 300 thread topics based around his art
How does discussion disprove how bad it is? This is Redditor think, if you dislike something your job is to be quiet and move on. But no here, if something is bad people want to make fun of it. If it's embarrassing then it's extra fun to pick it apart.
>making a game instead of going to therapy
>I thought video games were art
>So I thought I could shit on the canvas and people would applaud me for it
I get where he's coming from
You miss the point, but it is typical of the monsters that capitalism creates. Audiences believe THEY are the artists and that artists have to cater to them. In a healthy society, it is entirely the other way. The artist creates their world view. It is up to the audience to adapt to it and see where he is coming from. The script switch is exactly as he said in the OP, this has changed because videogames have been taken over by children
LEMONADE!
So thought provoking....I'm crying into my cheetos right now bros....he won we lost....
Personally I think he's a bad writer who mixed up unlikable with uninteresting. A character can be unlikeable but if that's all he has then I'm just going to get bored and then get annoyed with how boring said character is.
Anyone that says games can't be art hasn't played Drag-On Dragoon.
>be an insufferable c**t
>make a game where the protagonist is a self insert
>nobody likes the self insert because they're an insufferable c**t
crazy
>YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO LIKE ALEX YIIK
>YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO SELF-INSERT AS ALEX YIIK
>There is a 10 minute monologue to the player where Alex YIIK tells you that you are also Alex YIIK
That's what's so dogshit about the game. The writer is just projecting onto the audience.
When I'm playing disco Elysium I'm sympathizing with Harry even though he's a frickups who deserves a mouthful for his behaviour. But the game is pointing at me through the screen saying "AND YOU'RE HARRY, STOP TAKING METHAMPHETAMINES AND ALCOHOL"
why the frick am I being insulted for what Alex has done?
But you aren’t Alex Yiik
Alex is just blaming you for his problems lmao
Video games are not art.
Yes.
Do we have to have the same thread twice in the same day?
Most "artsy" games are basically pic related.
It's some story with extra steps, where steps are not that impactful to the story. Devs do this because they think that you can immerse yourself in the story more in a video game. That is false, sure during the cutscenes you can relate to a protagonist but during most of the game protagonist is a tool through which you perceive gameplay, and not the good vessel for audience to relate to.
If you want to communicate art to player you need to do that through gameplay itself. Pathologic 2 was a best example of that. You have countless video essays abut it on youtube because it made you struggle and your struggles were related to the events unfolding in the game. So you were ACTIVELY experiencing the story, not through yourself relating to the protagonist, but through your actions and struggles during gameplay.
Why do people still talk about YIIK after all this time?
>Was he a pathetic manchild?
Yes.