What if your fantasy setting had no actual magic or non-human races in it? All "races" are just different human cultures, all "magic" is just folk beliefs, like we used to have in the real world.
What if your fantasy setting had no actual magic or non-human races in it?
...of course the world and its cultures would still be made up and fictional.
Yeah, imagine a world like that.
Wow I wish I could experience a world like this. It’s a shame that irl my dwarf neighbours wake me up in the middle of the night with the sound of mining and singing about gold, I’m not anti khazitic but sometimes I think they should integrate a bit more like the nice halfling family across the street
You just described my next campaign. Thanks.
You're getting a little too close to the truth.
Those are uniornically my favorite types of settings. There's plenty that are obviously meant to, say, WWII with the names changed and such.
There's a lot more freedom in placing cultures and periods here and there and steering where humans and civilization go, in directions that are unimaginable. I'm trying to make one that's the Americas with Southeast Asia.
>I'm trying to make one that's the Americas with Southeast Asia.
Glad I’m not the only one! Do keep us updated anon
How's yours going?
I actually had plans for a book like this, once.
The protagonist was a farmhand losing faith in the gods and government after seeing her town and the towns near it ransacked by bandits, coming at odds with a "wizard" from far away who rolls into town promising to solve everyone's problems with his "magic" ...
Makes a deal with the wizard that if he can't fulfill his promises by the new moon, he stays and accepts his fate, but if he can, she becomes his protégée.
Turns out his magic is fake as shit (go figure) but he's a talented social engineer and herbalist.
Ordinarily I'd be worried about posting this sort of summary online until I actually wrote it, but let's be honest I'm never going to write it.
Thanks. Just finished writing this story up. I'll be publishing it next week.
they cute
Agree.
The current setting can't not have magic, but the concept is quite doable.
Would there be any supernatural or sci-fi elements? Or a Sword & Planet with outdated/weird science would fit?
Then it wouldn’t be a fantasy setting
Define a fantasy setting?
A fantasy needs to be fantastical. What the OP is describing is alt-history at best.
But the plate tectonics is different, resulting in different landmasses. The divergence from real world occured not in historical era, but way before life evolved. This is sci fi at best.
>A fantasy needs to be fantastical.
So the setting for A Song of Ice and Fire isn't a fantasy setting. I mean it's not fantastical, it's pretty mundane and dull.
Now that you think about it, I (shallowly) think of alternate history as science fiction made boring, and aSOIaf is definitely fantasy made boring. I still wouldn't agree that it is alternate history because alternate history is supposed to still be historical fiction, and that series has nothing to do with it. It's historical fiction for people who hate history, as much as it is a fantasy story for people who hate fantasy.
So basically you have this really narrow definition of fantasy and anything that's not in that narrow definition isn't fantasy to you.
Fantasy itself was considered a subgenre of science-fiction for a while
And I don't know why
Other way around
Still is
Because they're the same thing
Explain how fantasy is science-fiction
Humans achieving the level of technology in most science-fiction stories is a fantasy.
That was not the question I was asking
ice zombies, dragons, fantastical races, fantastical places and buildings, fricking magic, etc
Magic still exists, dragons exist, child like forest elves and cruel ice elves exist.
A setting featuring things that are impossible or improbable.
Then it would be a fantasy setting without those things. Okay. What then? Where is this going?
It could be explicitly non-earth, indicated through geography and other details, which I would argue still qualifies as fantasy. And, even if all the "races" are humans, you could still have non-standard fauna. Like dinosaurs. Humans and dinosaurs coexisting on a non-earth world would clearly be fantasy, even without magic.
Oh shit. Are we playing Cadillacs and dinosaurs? I'm down for that if I like the game rules.
How would describe something like Mount & Blade or UnReal World. They're on parts of history(Medieval Europe and Middle East/Iron Age Finland respectively), have no magic(you can pray to gods in URW but they just increase some luck), but are taken on completely fictional worlds with fictional geography and nations. So they're not reall alt-history either.
realistic fiction
So basically a low-magic campaign except the ultimate villain isn't the setting's one high level mage
This shit is obnoxious as hell. When I run low-fantasy settings, I let my players go balls-in on magic and reap the comsequences. The few that survive intact are then made that much more impressive.
It's not what I want out of fantasy.
Then it would probably end up as a tedious exercise in world building where you come up with super special donut steel cultures but offers nothing a historical setting doesn't.
That’s arguably alternate history since I believe fantasy requires the presence of explicitly fantastical elements. Fictional land masses and cultures are perfectly within the realm of reason. Fantasy is what people do in a world that could never be, science fiction is what people do in a world that could be, and alt history is what people do in a world that could’ve been. I think this proposition is mostly the latter. It’s alt history with the point(s) of divergence being the presence of whatever non-historical elements exist, be it unique continents or exotic life forms.
>what if your setting based on things that are impossible or improbable had little to no things that are impossible or improbable?
Then it would be alternate historical fiction, not fantasy.
It would be shit, just like the real world.
Waow, you just subverted my heckin expectations!!! Updooted!!!
My setting is like this, there used to be magical elements but they slowly chipped away as I refined the setting to just be wholesome and larger than life.
10/10 style and concept
check of destiny
They aren't necessarily widows, sometimes their husbands can be well alive, but all their children have moved out. The husband may stay put to continue building wealth (for inheritance) or working at his post, though it's common for retirees to accompany their wife. Mothers are heavily emphasized for their warmth in this culture, her descendants take care of her because that's what you're supposed to do, and you'd be damned if you don't give your grandmother a good night kiss.
Cool, so it's patriarchal but also extremely matriarchal at the same time. Society of tough warrior guys who love their mothers.
They are for the most part patriarchal in state/military affairs but only a bit more matriarchal in community affairs (but much more in religious/spiritual). They are a wide range of people with many kingdoms, like how European kingdoms have a common root in Christianity and mostly Germanic aristocracy but are still diverse. Whomever parent a culture values more depends on many things, a warlike state is most likely going to be heavily patriarchal, but a state suffering from intense war exhaustion might have a matriarchal uprising because mama don't wanna cry no more.
I just want to say that your art is really cute
In the case of Nomadic Grandmothers, I assume their husbands died in honorable battle and that this universal hospitality practiced by his kin is their way of repaying her for being such a good wife and mother?
Everyone would just assume you're making it a political statement and irl would infect it whether you like it or not.
If I wanted to see something with only humans, I wouldn't be bothering with fantasy in the first place.
Why though? Take Lord of the Rings as an example. Why do the dwarves have to be short? They could be normal people while having the same culture and it would be the same story.
Why is it you gays only know how to parade around the exact same asinine reductionist argument?
Have run at least one game like this. Went pretty well, except there was a predictable D&D autist whose mind exploded after a while without the traditional trappings.
He was particularly spergy after he sought out rumours of ruins and abandoned places, eventually found one and for the long hike he received shards of pottery, a multitude of tumbled walls to look at, a couple of copper torcs, and nothing else.
So a low fantasy setting?
Where's that anon who made a whole not!post-WWI setting
>that sucks you grew up without a stable democracy haha
So a game all about going outside instead of playing a fantasy game?
I don't get why everyone assumes it would just be the normal world. Is Morrowind just like going outside? Probably not. Does a fantastical alien culture have to have actual magic or is something like medieval alchemy interesting, too, when everyone believes in it? Probably. Does it really add to the experience when people have pointy ears? Probably not.
>I don't get why everyone assumes it would just be the normal world.
I think people's imaginations aren't working. There's a whole lot of possibilities in OP's description, humans are quite diverse and that doesn't just mean races, things could go in plenty of different ways, civilizations and cultures could develop differently. People will say that's just alt-history, though this has more freedoms and less restrictions
I’d dig it
What of it?
>Is it possible?
Yes.
>Is it of interest to me?
Not really. Not from what little you've said here.
What about your setting makes me care about the idea? You've said what it lacks that I like. You haven't said what it does have that should interest me.
Unless it's wuxia. Are we playing wandering heroes of ogre gate with the magical creatures pulled out? If we are, then I'm in.
Isn't most wuxia in a historical setting
it's mostly in ahistorical setting
subtle difference
Sometimes it's set in an actual historical era, other times it's a made up vaguely -3000-1800 era China-looking anachronistic fictional fantasy world.
I went with this for my art deco military sci fi story. Nothing supernatural, no magic, but folk beliefs were around. Was fun.
Can I hear more? Is it a WWI-esque setting? I personally love those war-meets-occult type looks.
We need more settings where all races are human.
>all the races are human
>actually none of them are but we call them that so it's k
Dofus is fun though
>They don't even use the word 'human'
I like Dofus/Wakfu too, but I've noticed pretty much this
exact post pop up several times in the past few weeks. This one anon seems determined to convince everyone it's a human-only setting for some reason and I can't imagine why it matters.
Wakfu isn't really that. Wakfu is more like a setting where racism and every religion are all objectively correct.
It would be an alternative history setting, no?
Is it still alternative history if literally 100% of the history, geographical make-up of the planet and cultures are completely made up?
A story with no fantastical elements and 100% made up places/cultures is an adventure story or a romance story. Fantasy, by definition, needs fantastical elements, be it magic, wonderous creatures, Gods, etc.
>Fantasy, by definition, needs fantastical elements
A completely fake world is pretty fantastical
This goes into the magic/technology divide in fiction. It really depends on the tone of the story. In general, based on the way the OP is phrased, where everything is explicitly mundane, it would be improper to categorize it alongside works where there is magic and dragons and whatnot. More importantly, people would be PISSED if you labeled it as fantasy and it had no fantastical elements.
This sort of subversion of expectations is not clever, nor is it welcome anymore since it's so overdone these days by morons like the OP.
>This sort of subversion of expectations is not clever, nor is it welcome anymore since it's so overdone these days by morons like the OP.
Sounds like a better issue with presenting it as subversive rather than just doing it with a straight faced, I personally like it when there's effort put into it
>This goes into the magic/technology divide in fiction.
A low-IQ division that pretends shit like Star Trek isn't more inherently absurd (fantasy) than something that takes place on a single world/planet and doesn't dishonestly pretend its science is just magic by another name. Sorry.
Science is already assumed to be honest and trusted, so you can't really justify the tech you see in things like Star Trek or Star Wars. You have to assume things like warp drives and Death Stars make *scientific sense* - which they don't. At least with magic the gaps in information and understanding are *intentional*. (Unless you try to make magic just a science by any other name)
>A low-IQ division that pretends shit like Star Trek isn't more inherently absurd (fantasy) than something that takes place on a single world/planet and doesn't dishonestly pretend its science is just magic by another name. Sorry.
This is such a dumb take and completely misses the forest for the trees. Just because Star Trek has unexplainable elements like the "Heisenberg compensator" doesn't mean it's magic. It's clearly rooted in real world science. They don't apply handwavium everywhere, just in places that science cannot account for yet.
More importantly, the point of magic is that it's explicitly not explained nor explainable. It's supposed to be roughly equivalent to "a God did it" or "a spirit did it." This is very, very different from having an advanced piece of technology which was created by human hands.
>Just because Star Trek has unexplainable elements like the "Heisenberg compensator" doesn't mean it's magic.
What the frick is magic to you, moron? It is evidently magic if it's scientifically outdated and absurd. Sorry, those "beam me up, Scotty" teleporters KILL PEOPLE by essentially disintegrating them and making a copy.
Star Trek is literally just Dungeons & Dragons in space, using differing terminology. Vulcans are elves, separated by deep space instead of forests/mountains. The aliens/cultures are all conveniently humanoid and technologically equivalent (for the most part). That sort of convenience does not exist in nature.
Magic is rooted in mystery and religion. This is not that complicated. The way the characters interact with the plot device matters MORE than whether or not it is plausible in the real world.
It's magic when it cannot be explained, is inconsistent, and cannot be controlled. More importantly, it's magic when it's treated with a sort of religious reverence. This is also what makes the tech priests of 40k so interesting. They explicitly blur the line between magic and technology. In fact, it WOULD be magic if we, as the audience, didn't know that this was a piece of technology that was created by their ancestors.
It all comes down to the process by which knowledge to invoke it is obtained. Magic is done through rituals and manipulation of natural forces beyond their full comprehension. Technology uses tools that break down the universe into discrete bits that can be manipulated and taken apart. Magic is holistic, technology is deterministic. Magic is based on emotions, technology based on cold logic. And so forth.
Magic is whatever the frick. Things can meet the criteria of magic and not be called magic. You're not even getting the bloody point. Magic isn't a thing, it's a state.
>Things can meet the criteria of magic and not be called magic
Give one (1) example
Modern technology. Quantum physics. Math.
>You're literally dumb if you think the science isn't largely accurate.
There is barely anything accurate with Star Trek. It doesn't even understand holograms. You're a biased loon, it sounds like.
>Magic is rooted in mystery and religion.
Magic is rooted in objective capacity and wonder ("How did you do that?"), so anything can be magic if it is sufficiently unexposed and wondrous. This isn't exclusive to religion, but it goes hand-in-hand with mystery; the occult, the arcane, the esoteric, etc, all synonymous meanings. Magic is just secret/hidden science.
>Magic is just secret/hidden science.
Not true. European magical practices involved mundane stuff like saying spells to catch bees. It wasn't hidden or secret. Everyone who knew about beekeeping knew them.
>European magical practices involved mundane stuff like saying spells to catch bees
Did they believe it worked? Science. :^)
>Everyone who knew about beekeeping knew them.
This really helps your position. (Not)
Magic is also just contrary science that comes across as extra moronic as the centuries pass by. There. This sort of contrast is what lead to people thinking magic had to denounce the laws of physics, even when this makes no blood sense whatsoever.
Magic is a feeling more than an actual thing, I think this is what autists seem to not understand. Same thing with "fantastical" which seems to be a sticking point in this thread.
For example, when Maxwell first wrote Maxwell's equations, he said he had this overwhelming feeling that the equations themselves were magical and had an intelligence all to themselves. This was because they yielded so many results so quickly with so little effort. That is where the cutoff of magic exists, I think. It's in that feeling of wonder you get when you do something you don't fully comprehend and it yields all sorts of useful results that you would have never expected.
The same thing happens all the time in the cutting edge of science. Alchemy too was considered magic back in the day before we had a complete understanding of the atom. It's the feeling that's important, not the fact it's "contrary science". It could be completely accurate science and still feel like magic.
Magic is Wonder.
>More importantly, the point of magic is that it's explicitly not explained nor explainable.
Only to a point. A caveman can't explain a cellphone or a laptop. They are without the necessary cultural and technological contexts. A fourth-dimensional 'artifact' poking through into our reality ("magic") is only understandable to a fourth-dimensional being.
You can't say a fireball doesn't have objective components to it. Fire is still fire. Same goes for a magic missile. It's all energy/mass.
>It's clearly rooted in real world science. They don't apply handwavium everywhere, just in places that science cannot account for yet.
You sound pretty fricking dumb right about now ngl
Nice contribution moron. Also, TNG had consultant math/science professors from Stanford and other universities to help write the episodes. You're literally dumb if you think the science isn't largely accurate.
Star wars is fantasy in space.
Start trek is more about exploring social and technological what ifs, and that's what scifi is.
I generally prefer blatant fantasy in space (except Stargate) - but startrek and starwars are not the same genre.
I could actually be interested in an alternate world low tech what if setup (it's probably a scifi, technically, but if you give someone a low tech sci-fi they're also going to be pissed) - but yeah. If I thought I was getting a proper fantasy setting, I probably lose interest, just like I lost interest in Shannara Chronicles (pre-internet) after the reveal that it was post apocalyptic Earth.
Someone who ordered a mozza burger is going to be pissed if you give them a regular taco instead, even if they like tacos. It's not what they ordered or what you told them they were getting.
What if there are fantastical elements like magic. Characters in the fictional world believe in it. It just isn't actually real.
>What if there are fantastical elements like magic. Characters in the fictional world believe in it. It just isn't actually real.
What is the tone you're going for then? Are they supposed to get what they want Don Quixote style? If so, it's a comedic adventure. Are they supposed to get what they want and it's ambiguous as to whether or not there was actual divine intervention? Then it's LotR style magic with religious parallels. Is it supposed to do absolutely nothing and the main characters mock them for their ignorance reddit fedora style? Then you have a shitty story that "subverts" expectations.
How you execute this story is more important than this conceit you're posing.
Have you ever learned anything about medieval or earlier history? People believed magic was real. Priests healing people, magical charms, spells making wounds heal faster or your enemies sick... These things were completely real to them, yet magic didn't exist as much as it doesn't exist now.
A low fantasy setting could be like that. There is plenty of magic and fantastical stuff in the minds of the fictional characters. But it's never over the top DnD stuff. It's small things. And in stories, which they all hold to be true, it can get more wild. Real medieval people also thought there was wild stuff going on in faraway lands or hidden places like forests, while their daily life was relatively mundane. Only sometimes they'd get sudden lower back pain caused by an elven arrow or get sick because of a curse.
Do you understand the difference between miracles and magic?
GOD sanctioned magic and non-god sanctioned magic.
>magic
>magic
>magic
>it's my power to wield
>but it's god's responsibility if I use it for bad deeds
So very funny. Never gets old.
What did he mean by this
I meant Abraxas Cadaver.
Yeah. Abrahamic hair-splitting, is all.
How would you describe your relations with your father?
So what's stopping you, champ? If your idea is so good you should be able to make an RPG out of it and be swimming in cash. Go ahead and make that human only DnD heartbreaker, champ!
Maybe then you'll actually have something to talk about rather than fishing for asspats for a hypothetical borefest.
1. How does magic/sorcery not exist when make belief is brainwashing billions of men and women in the world already? That's all religion is. Stories. You don't need to have mental powers to mind control someone or get them to surrender their will. They're already doing that in droves. If you believe something hard enough, it may as well be real. Sleight of hand is the greatest magic of all. Sorcery is just charlatanry with more weight/presence behind it. Ignorance is power. Look at gurus like Osho and tell me that's not fricking sorcery.
2. How is science/chemistry not fricking magic? If a natural philosopher had early access to fireworks and grenades and kept such information to himself they may as well have access to fireballs. Too bad for YOU that humans are jealous creatures/monkeys and information (pertaining to violence + war) spreads like wildfire. Now everyone is potentially a wizard, and thus no one is. Magic now is mostly just aesthetic/art.
>DUDE RELIGION IS A BRAIN WASHING MOVEMENT *tips hat*
cringe moment, to be sure
>In 1987 two pastors, Peter Leithart and George Grant, published a book The Catechism of the New Age: A Response to Dungeons and Dragons. Joseph P. Laywiener wrote that their book condemned role-playing as allowing too much freedom, which the authors regard as a gateway to critical thinking which in turn may result in heretical thought.
Scientologists and evangelists believing that giving all their money to their leaders will cure them of cancer doesn't actually mean their cancer will be cured
>Look at gurus like Osho and tell me that's not fricking sorcery.
Literally indistinguishable from pic related.
>He thinks magic is about helping people and not dominating
>>He thinks magic is about helping people and not dominating
Being a conman isn't magic and I don't care what nerds who think placebo effects are occult say
So, like, a "magic missile" (that's actually called magic missile, for one) isn't comprised of essential components? It's a wizard pretending it's something else. Same with a fireball - it's still made of fricking fire.
All magic is just bullshit that's functional.
How about weaponized psychology?
It's not a placebo effect; it can ruin, sicken or even kill, or double your apparent powers.
And the necessary obscurantism associated with maintaining the effectiveness of such practices is precicely what you'd refer to as "occult"
This. Sleight of hand (ignorance, mystery, etc) is the greatest magic of all, and the closest thing to it. You're not supposed to know a wizard's secrets. You're not supposed to know the behind-the-scenes. A magician's tricks are their own. A sorcerer-priest's otherworldly patron/god may just be another tier of magician/sleight-of-hand.
I have no interest in this magic is just sleight of hand being presented as fantasy, and a world of conmen ruining the world for centuries is the world I already live in. Why would I want that in my entertainment? If I want that I can just turn on CNN.
Wait til you find out people like playing games about wars and political dramas
They really don't. I've been in the hobby for twenty years and I can't name a single historical tabletop rpg (and I suspect you'll need the help of google to find one) off the top of my head. I'm sure there out there, they've just got a smaller presence and numbers than, say, diaper furs.
>Too bad for YOU that humans are jealous creatures/monkeys and information (pertaining to violence + war) spreads like wildfire.
And this is why settings like Dungeons & Dragons (and the Elder Scrolls and Warcraft and Warhammer and Shadowrun and whatever the frick) all fricking suck ass. You don't have that much magical intimacy with society and somehow keep things neatly divided and separate and unassimilated. Education should involve everyone learning basic Cantrip/Spell amenities up to like 1st or 2nd level. Kind of like how kids are expected to learn basic math. Everyone needs to learn how to use a credit card. You can't just expect society to be stagnant and stuck in the same century.
> You can't just expect society to be stagnant and stuck in the same century.
Uh anon, that describes 100k years of pre-agricultural history and 10k years of agricultural history. Mankind has been "stagnant" for far longer than it's been developing.
There's a threshold where that sort of excuse just doesn't fly. Settings like D&D have already passed that threshold.
You're not wrong, but you're still an idiot.
Sounds dope
Though I'd like the twist to be that they're actually a "lost colony" gone native for thousands of years.
That way you can yank the
>Sufficiently advanced technology
chain once in a while too, to keep the players guessing.
>You find a black stone rod
>It shoots death rays
>it's operation is simple, but only a wizard knows how it is recharged
I just love how everyone on this board just seems to post about how anything is just shit and stupid.
>Magic doesn't exist says my god-fearing Christian mother
>She then takes me to eat the blood and flesh of a ghost and pray to him
Rolling dice is magic but slapping someone's face with a bible to cure their blindness and invoking angels is not
That's just the weird compartmentalization of religion
I think he's saying Christians are moronic for saying magic isn't real when they believe the most magical sounding shit
Yeah, but that's an artifact of proselytization more than Christianity itself. Every country where some larger religion took over, they had to merge the local beliefs with their own doctrine. So that is why people in Brazil worship Mother Mary (since it merged with the Lady of Guadalupe), why some Chinese people have "Buddhist" snake temples, and why some Islamic people unironically believe in jinns (which originated from pre-Islamic Arabia).
>Yeah, but that's an artifact of proselytization more than Christianity itself.
Christianity is about a man turning one fish into two fish three fish twelve fish, and walking on water, it's pretty magical. In fact that was a Roman criticism of it.
And stuff like baptism was in it from the start, a "pure" Christianity isn't less magical.
The Eucharist isn't some foreign idea that got mushed into Christianity over time, it comes straight from Jesus in the New Testament
>Swedish peasants passing their child through a hole in a magic tree, trying to cure it from some unspecified disease
>n-no its just our religion
The Swedes were Christians at that point and Christianity doesn't teach magic trees.
Is this real or not? It just sounds so silly.
It's real. Folk beliefs can be very goofy and very persistent.
I am reminded of Resident Evil 4 & 8. Weird biology = magic / an excuse to start cults.
Characters like Saddler and Miranda certainly treat it that way, and they're both scientists.
The only truly magical characters in those games are the shady ass merchants. The fat one especially.
my settings humans are highly racially diverse, but have an abnormal lack of animosity towards other "tribes" of men because there are other, non-human sapients like goblins and ratfolk to feel EVEN MORE racist towards.
Problem is, the Rats are all dead and the Goblins have fled underground for several decades now, and Orcs/Elves have been extinct for centuries, so now cracks are starting to form in the Humanity Frick Yeah Alliance.
What culture is that picture from?
God I need to frick a woman from a fictional culture and cum inside of her right now
There's a lot of ways to do this and it's been mentioned but I wonder if there's a line where it becomes science-fiction
I don't think fake geography would make people b***h, but coming up with things like new fauna would. Maybe camels and horses still existing in North America, or extinct humans still around, but especially fake technology that might stray into -punk type stuff.
Honestly that sounds really boring. It sounds like an atheist take on low fantasy turning it into a soulless no fantasy.
It all comes down to execution, honestly.
More so than regular fantasy. There's no magic or monsters to fall back on to hold the interest of the players, so it's entirely down to your ability to tell a good story.
I’ll be honest anon, most people want fun adventures instead of deep storytelling. And adventures are the most fun when exploring the supernatural, at least that’s the case with fantasy. Not saying that an adventure about bandits wouldn’t be fun but it would get old really fast.
It wouldn't if it's a wuxia. But I already mentioned that.
Ultimately, the way I see it you are better off making your story for a genre that isn't at odds with your concept. When I think of fantasy, usually there's a small checklist of things at minimum that I want out of the experience. There's a reason why we divide all sorts of things into categories, subcategories and niches and I frankly don't see the value in fantasy that deliberately wants to eschew the fantastical usually in some misguided desire to appear "more mature".
A whole religion based on a guy doing party tricks with wine
Where is the button to give this gender nonspecific individual Ganker gold?
Keep it, you earned it for trying to be original instead of just posting funny hat memes from your fedora folder, which I know you were tempted to open
Don't bump this thread bumpgay I need for it die so I can repost an image