Everything in the game is pretty low poly and the world geometry is simple and extremely angular. Most things are also completely untextured and just use flat colors. The game wouldn't have any trouble running on the N64 without the cel shading.
idk what you're talking about cause the maps are pretty large and have lots of detail, even Link has 2754 polys which is more than Master Chief. The idea of most things being untextured is just completely untrue. The game absolutely would not work on N64, not to mention that cel shading is the least of its issues. Cel shading has the exact same calculations as Gourad/Phong shading and is no more computationally expensive. The only difference is that lightness doesn't increase linearly. That is, instead of the regions calculated to be 1/r_squared=0.48, 0.49, 0.50, and 0.51 being mapped with lightnesses of 48%, 49%, 50%, and 51% respectively, they are instead mapped with (the values here are just for the sake of argument. In reality, games like Wind Waker do smooth the gradient in the middle to avoid aliasing) 0%, 0%, 100%, and 100% respectively.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Oh, correction, 1/r_squared is used to describe the falloff of light. Replace "lightness" with "darkness"
They couldn't finish the artstyle in time so they shat out something easier to render and said "it's stylized"
Aonuma very clearly resents being handed someone else's legacy and tried to carve it out to be HIS legacy. Despite sucking off OoT to the point of borderline being a remake, WW's message it tries to go with by the end of the game is "ah forget that shit it's TOON LINK TIME NOW, BABY!"
There's something to be said how a lot of "forget the past, leave it behind" stories tend to be handled by people who hadn't worked on the earliest installments and always end up being some of the most mixed responses critically
It's probably the game that people either gaslight themselves into liking due to the Zelda brand, or only like it because it's so radically different than the previous games that they can enjoy it in a vacuum. Which to me feels like a failure of a franchise installment
Yeah I prefer how OoT had an implied order but you could break sequence pretty easily if you made a conscious effort. Although stuff like "get dungeon item and then immediately stop the dungeon to progress the overworld" is a bit contrived(and unfun). The effect would have been stronger if the game was a bit longer though
A handful of specific points let you choose between a few dungeons. Would you really want that in a game where you have to spend hours of your total play time sailing from island to island?
With a game like WW you either make it completely linear or completely non-linear. No in between. Nobody wants to sail across the entire map and discover a new dungeon only for there to be a 50/50 chance it's inaccessible until later.
>Nobody wants to sail across the entire map and discover a new dungeon only for there to be a 50/50 chance it's inaccessible until later.
It's funny because this happens anyway.
It's implied that you can do the wind and earth temples in any order, but the wind temple sage will not appear until the earth temple is completed. >Nobody wants to sail across the entire map and discover a new dungeon only for there to be a 50/50 chance it's inaccessible until later.
The ocean is already so vast that they had to add warp points. So they could just let you warp back to the dungeon if you can't enter right now.
Also, doesn't this happen with smaller islands already? Like you'll find an interesting island, but find you need a key item to progress.
But the original Zelda was also non linear.
Man, since TP's release people kept b***hing demanding for an open Zelda and by the time we got one, now people want linear.
It sucks. And not for the typical reasons that people that don't bother to form their own opinions think. The pacing is dogshit. The first half is constantly being interrupted by its uninteresting story that completely fricks off and goes nowhere in the second half. The "twist" where Tetra is revealed to be Zelda is completely stupid and undeserved as you've literally only seen Tetra 2 or 3 times up to that point so she barely even registers as a character.
The game is very clearly unfinished and suffered a rushed development. Only 5 dungeons, the Foresaken Fortress and final area aren't fleshed out enough to count and the Tower of the Gods is so short I hesitate to even count it but I will just to be generous. >inb4 "b-but Majora only had 4!"
Majora has areas leading up to them and things like the spider houses that more than make up for it not to mention the plentiful sidequests the game is built around.
3 of Wind Wakers 5 dungeons reuse the same obnoxious gimmick of taking control of another character as their main mechanic. The Earth and Wind Temple are so visually drab and completely lack identity they feel like alpha builds of Zelda dungeons. The islands are worthless to explore because most of them require items you don't get until late in the game, youre better off saving them all for the very end instead of risking wasting your time going all the way over to one and realizing you need the hookshot or some other thing.
The soundtrack sucks straight up, theres only like 3 good songs. None of the ambient dungeon music is memorable whatsoever and fails to provide atmosphere.
I feel like these are completely legitimate reasons to say this game sucks but its always meaningless garbage parroted every fricking time like the art style or the triforce chard quest which is actually fine because its the only thing that ever makes you engage with the games main gimmick of sailing and looking for treasure. Its the only 3D Zelda I hate(besides BotW and TotK)
More or less this. I think it says a frickton about this game that the very first thing you do is a stealth section that completely disregards the game's admittedly fun, if shallow swordplay
They couldn't even make a real opening of the game to actually sink you into the world and the game's strengths. They padded it out with a boring, annoying gimmick scrimbloshit had wore out its welcome by that point
WW is not my favorite zelda, but I actually really enjoyed playing it as a randomizer because it makes treasure hunting and sailing much more important
They had a cool setting and wanted to make it feel like it was worth exploring the overworld. You really start to feel like you're wating your time when you explore early on and don't have items or abilities to do things on some islands, meaning you have to go through the slog of getting back to them later. Even when you unlock fast travel you need to pull out the wind waker, fast travel, pull out the wind waker, change wind direction, change weapons, etc. The art style is cool, I like the music, I think the story is a refreshing take on a typical zelda story, I like the characters, it just gets tedious. And the dungeons just aren't that fun. They're easy and the puzzles are simple. I just feel like it's harder to get to most of the dungeons than it is to complete them. Side quests based off collecting enemy drops kind of feels like padding too, I'd prefer a fetch quest.
Kind of off-topic but I tried playing WW and got completely bored and quit. But weirdly I played it not long after playing pic related, a random ass survival game about being a castaway. And I *fricking* loved it. This game was so good, holy shit. So it was kinda weird seeing WW be so similar. I expect zoom zoom replies but I'm not, I just really recommend this game
WW could have been a great game if they finished making it. It needed more dungeons, better dungeons, more stuff in the overworld to justify its size, earlier access to most of that side content (including the triforce hunt). None of these are conceptual problems with the game.
Metroid Prime had a lot more content and had plenty of stuff to find in its large world. The artifact hunt was also executed a lot better than the triforce hunt because it was spread throughout the campaign and didn't have any stupid grind attached.
There's nothing wrong with the art style, sailing, or the story. Those are all fine.
Story is whack, but that's legitimately just how they handled Ganon. They wrote a man who got salty about losing once versus one who was actually reflecting on all of his past defeats. Cause of that we got the legitimately unnecessary split timeline shit
If you're going to complain about anything in WW complain about how moronicly easy it is, which is really saying something for a Zelda game. WW has zero challenge to it, it's a game for babies. I may have used a fairy once or twice across a couple of play thrus, but I don't think I ever got to a game over screen even once.
>you can sail this wide open sea! >no wait, you can’t. Finish 3 dungeons first >ok good job now you can do anything >uhhhhhh why don’t you have this weapon yet? You can’t do anything here >hey go sail around the world and get these triforce charts >ok now sail back to this same homosexual and pay him to decipher them >oh you don’t have enough? Go around the world and grind lol >good job, now you can go back to those places you already visited and get the pieces
What were they THINKING???
I honestly think they decided on features related to slowing the player down. So basically they went about designing the game around padding the playtime out.
They probably wanted to make cool little islands to explore, but they obviously made the distance between them large enough to mask the loading time for the console.
Then there's the whole changing wind direction in order to sail where the player wants. What they did was decide it could help to prolong the playtime, and then up and decided that that would be the central gimmick or music item this time around.
The artstyle too was a concession, they probably realized early on that the amount of detail they wanted would be too much for their hardware. They purposely decided on cel-shading because there's so little detail "on purpose" for the "style".
They set out to make a game, perhaps it was grander in scope than they could reasonably do, on a fixed deadline. So they continued to concede and recede on features and design until they, forgive me, shit this game out.
I do not like this game anymore. I used to, until I replayed it for maybe the fourth time. Then it all hit me like a truck. Laying out on the side of the road bleeding out of every orfice and imagining a better game the entire time I used to play it.
That's right I used to imagine that the game was better, while I played it. It was actually shocking to realize it.
The game isn't that good, it's arguably not good at all.
They rereleased a high definition remaster. They turned on a bloom shader, they cut out some of the content, and they added the ability to negate the central mechanic, the Wind Waker, which changes the direction of which you can sail, and they made it so you sailed three or four times quicker.
I've never seen such a blatant admission that a game was shitty like this, cutting content, and circumventing the central mechanic.
Literally where is the gameplay the game keeps you on the tightest leash of the entire franchise until you get halfway through it and then realize the ocean has nothing to discover until you have every single item, and then the game just ends. Worst dungeons in the franchise while also having the fewest, the worst most tedious game mechanics in the franchise having to constantly pull out the wind waker to play songs to change the wind or switch between shitty underdeveloped characters, lame and tiny arsenal of tools and items, underwhelming soundtrack and a story that never gets the chance to get interesting because it doesn't get enough time gives up halfway.
Im not even complaining that its linear, I much prefer linear games compared to the open world slop we get today, but holy shit you have to ease up on the railroading at some point and it feels like it never fricking does. For most of the game the boat tells you to go frick yourself if you go outside the set path they want you to go and then you realize theres nothing to fricking do anyway so I dont know if I should be grateful or just pissed. Twilight Princess may have a long intro but at least once you get to the first dungeon you can do whatever you want barring natural roadblocks you need items to pass.
Its simply the worst 3D Zelda of the franchise and anyone who says otherwise is just nostalgia blind and coping.
Linear games are fine but it's moronic to put a linear game on a giant ocean with like 50 different islands.
If any game should have returned to aLttP progression after OoT made things a little more linear, it should have been WW. But then again, aLttP had a shitton of dungeons to fill its overworld with.
>If any game should have returned to aLttP progression >after OoT made things a little more linear
It didn't, why do you people keep saying this? You can never explain how LttP is more open without lying about what OoT is actually like.
I think people feel this way because OoT suggests its intended game progression a bit more than LttP does. You have to know the game a good bit in OoT to know how to do stuff out of order whereas in Link to the Past you can just go into any of the Dark World dungeons as you come across them and see whats going on. Kinda just comes down to the difference of traversing a 3D world with a narrative vs a 2D world that more or less doesn't have a story or characters telling you what you should do.
I've played OoT like 40 times and I still feel like I'm more or less forcing myself to do things out of order, not because I just happened to be doing it that way naturally.
This shit is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. OoT almost never requires exiting a dungeon before completion for its alternate orders, and the only things which do involve doing this with the water temple are interesting because they involve going into the temple earlier than it would make sense to complete it normally otherwise, so you aren't just randomly deciding to not complete a dungeon you'd otherwise be almost done with.
5 months ago
Anonymous
wtf are you even talking about?
5 months ago
Anonymous
WTF are you even talking about? When do you need to get the item from half way through an adult dungeon to do the Fire Temple before or after any of the other adult dungeons?
5 months ago
Anonymous
Why are you making up an absurd scenario and pretending anyone else said it?
5 months ago
Anonymous
You haven't been in many OoT threads, have you?
5 months ago
Anonymous
You implied that you need to "backtrack out of dungeons" to do anything like this, so what the frick is it that are you trying to say?
5 months ago
Anonymous
>You implied that you need to "backtrack out of dungeons"
First of all my first response to you was
wtf are you even talking about?
and second of all please point out where anyone else implied this. I followed the reply chain and it looks to me like some schizo just started talking about backtracking out of dungeons out of nowhere.
5 months ago
Anonymous
people make that claim often about oot nonlinearity. if you've been in a zelda thread before you'd know this.
I really liked the ocean gameplay and went out of my way to chart the entire ocean. To each their own. To this day there has never been a really really good open world pirate game so Wind Waker still holds up for me but I hope someone does it better eventually. I understand why you wouldnt like it though because there really is no reason to go out of your way to go to other islands other than autistic completionism. Rupees being the main reward felt extremely short sighted when the wallet limit was so small and there wasnt anything to buy other than during the triforce hunt.
I think they tried to encourage some exploration it with the Great Fairy Island puzzle and the Triforce Hunt but everyone just hated those, the Triforce Hunt especially ended up not working at all because it was just way faster to grind enemies in one cave than actually explore.
WW >Unfinished >Worst dungeons in the series >So easy it makes Mario games look difficult >Terrible pacing >Game starts with a mandatory stealth mission >Game ends with a mandatory fetch quest >All style and no substance
TP >5 hr tutorial >bug hunting >wolf sections >Terrible pacing >Ganondorf was behind it all! >Just as easy as Wind Waker >Dull ugly version of OoT >Terrible Anime story >Useless items >Dungeons are glorified set pieces >Overworld is somehow worse than the N64 games.
Nintendo really didn't know what to do with Zelda after the N64.
you just made me realize something >early milliennials think LTTP is the best zelda because it was their first zelda >mid milliennials think OoT is the best zelda because it was their first zelda >zoomers think TP is the best zelda because it was their first zelda >in a decade or so we'll be hearing about how BOTW is the best zelda ever because it was gen alpha's first zelda game
there really is no point to discussing this series anymore
>in a decade or so we'll be hearing about how BOTW is the best zelda ever because it was gen alpha's first zelda game
We heard that on release from millennials. BotW is funnily enough the only game to break the Zelda cycle
>omg you guys lttp and oot were totally non-linear!
When did this moronation start?
Wooow you get to pick between two dungeons at two points in each game I can already feel myself cooming at all my options!
People wanted an official trilogy capper to the cliffhanger Majora ended on. Hell the whole entire game is one side quest taken off track from the adventure they themselves set up before Link gets sucked into Termina. Couple that with the spaceworld 2000 video and everyone thought this was going to be an extension of that story w Ganondorf making some sort of final comeback. The video was there to show off the power for sure, but the assumption at the time was we would get a third game in this world just w GameCube level graphics. So to answer your question OP, I have no idea what they were thinking. They set themselves up for failure and could’ve easily done this after finishing what the N64 started and by all accounts from people who have played it and even the ones who praise it here on this board, a lot of them admit it needed a lot more time to bake in the oven. Personally haven’t touched a Zelda game since this dropped. Now obviously they don’t need my money since they’re making hand over fist w the franchise, I just know this is where I got off the Nintendo wagon and never looked back. I still had a GameCube at the time because I was a teen working making money and working at GameStop so I got it for the cheap, but i never touched a Mario or Zelda game on the system other than to try out double dash which was another “wtf” is this. If you like the game, awesome, to me this is where Nintendo lost its way, although that’s a personal thing since clearly sales for the Wii and Zelda onward have been a huge money maker for them w the Wii U misstep that they rebounded strong from, sales wise.
>"Let's make an incredible and timeless adventure game!"
And then they did.
Why couldn't we have the same exact game but with this Link?
They couldn't finish the artstyle in time so they shat out something easier to render and said "it's stylized"
>something easier to render and said "it's stylized"
How is it easier to render?
Everything in the game is pretty low poly and the world geometry is simple and extremely angular. Most things are also completely untextured and just use flat colors. The game wouldn't have any trouble running on the N64 without the cel shading.
idk what you're talking about cause the maps are pretty large and have lots of detail, even Link has 2754 polys which is more than Master Chief. The idea of most things being untextured is just completely untrue. The game absolutely would not work on N64, not to mention that cel shading is the least of its issues. Cel shading has the exact same calculations as Gourad/Phong shading and is no more computationally expensive. The only difference is that lightness doesn't increase linearly. That is, instead of the regions calculated to be 1/r_squared=0.48, 0.49, 0.50, and 0.51 being mapped with lightnesses of 48%, 49%, 50%, and 51% respectively, they are instead mapped with (the values here are just for the sake of argument. In reality, games like Wind Waker do smooth the gradient in the middle to avoid aliasing) 0%, 0%, 100%, and 100% respectively.
Oh, correction, 1/r_squared is used to describe the falloff of light. Replace "lightness" with "darkness"
Aonuma very clearly resents being handed someone else's legacy and tried to carve it out to be HIS legacy. Despite sucking off OoT to the point of borderline being a remake, WW's message it tries to go with by the end of the game is "ah forget that shit it's TOON LINK TIME NOW, BABY!"
There's something to be said how a lot of "forget the past, leave it behind" stories tend to be handled by people who hadn't worked on the earliest installments and always end up being some of the most mixed responses critically
It's probably the game that people either gaslight themselves into liking due to the Zelda brand, or only like it because it's so radically different than the previous games that they can enjoy it in a vacuum. Which to me feels like a failure of a franchise installment
>just keep doing the same thing never change reeeee!
God I'm glad you people are flipping burgers instead of working in the game industry.
"These morons will buy anything we make and say it's the greatest thing ever"
"Let's make a game that makes neckbeards angry and continue to repost stupid shit an anonymous messageboard!"
"Let's forever divide the fanbase and tank the Gamecube's reputation for no real reason lol!"
>insecure manchildren chimped out because they want muh dark and gritty zelda but it's Nintendo's fault for dividing the fanbase!
>I suck corporate wiener!
>omg you don't agree with my kiddy opinion that Zelda needs to be dark and edgy you must be a shill!
lol
>implying the series wasnt turned gay with ocarina
>Let's make a game about sailing, but have the dungeon order be completely linear.
They weren't.
When they try to make dungeon order non-linear we get shit like BOTW and LBW that erase half the magic of the dungeons entirely.
Yeah I prefer how OoT had an implied order but you could break sequence pretty easily if you made a conscious effort. Although stuff like "get dungeon item and then immediately stop the dungeon to progress the overworld" is a bit contrived(and unfun). The effect would have been stronger if the game was a bit longer though
But ALttP and Zelda 1 had non linear dungeon orders.
Ocarina of Time too.
A handful of specific points let you choose between a few dungeons. Would you really want that in a game where you have to spend hours of your total play time sailing from island to island?
With a game like WW you either make it completely linear or completely non-linear. No in between. Nobody wants to sail across the entire map and discover a new dungeon only for there to be a 50/50 chance it's inaccessible until later.
>Nobody wants to sail across the entire map and discover a new dungeon only for there to be a 50/50 chance it's inaccessible until later.
It's funny because this happens anyway.
It's implied that you can do the wind and earth temples in any order, but the wind temple sage will not appear until the earth temple is completed.
>Nobody wants to sail across the entire map and discover a new dungeon only for there to be a 50/50 chance it's inaccessible until later.
The ocean is already so vast that they had to add warp points. So they could just let you warp back to the dungeon if you can't enter right now.
Also, doesn't this happen with smaller islands already? Like you'll find an interesting island, but find you need a key item to progress.
But the original Zelda was also non linear.
Man, since TP's release people kept b***hing demanding for an open Zelda and by the time we got one, now people want linear.
they were thinking frick you b***h
It sucks. And not for the typical reasons that people that don't bother to form their own opinions think. The pacing is dogshit. The first half is constantly being interrupted by its uninteresting story that completely fricks off and goes nowhere in the second half. The "twist" where Tetra is revealed to be Zelda is completely stupid and undeserved as you've literally only seen Tetra 2 or 3 times up to that point so she barely even registers as a character.
The game is very clearly unfinished and suffered a rushed development. Only 5 dungeons, the Foresaken Fortress and final area aren't fleshed out enough to count and the Tower of the Gods is so short I hesitate to even count it but I will just to be generous.
>inb4 "b-but Majora only had 4!"
Majora has areas leading up to them and things like the spider houses that more than make up for it not to mention the plentiful sidequests the game is built around.
3 of Wind Wakers 5 dungeons reuse the same obnoxious gimmick of taking control of another character as their main mechanic. The Earth and Wind Temple are so visually drab and completely lack identity they feel like alpha builds of Zelda dungeons. The islands are worthless to explore because most of them require items you don't get until late in the game, youre better off saving them all for the very end instead of risking wasting your time going all the way over to one and realizing you need the hookshot or some other thing.
The soundtrack sucks straight up, theres only like 3 good songs. None of the ambient dungeon music is memorable whatsoever and fails to provide atmosphere.
I feel like these are completely legitimate reasons to say this game sucks but its always meaningless garbage parroted every fricking time like the art style or the triforce chard quest which is actually fine because its the only thing that ever makes you engage with the games main gimmick of sailing and looking for treasure. Its the only 3D Zelda I hate(besides BotW and TotK)
More or less this. I think it says a frickton about this game that the very first thing you do is a stealth section that completely disregards the game's admittedly fun, if shallow swordplay
They couldn't even make a real opening of the game to actually sink you into the world and the game's strengths. They padded it out with a boring, annoying gimmick scrimbloshit had wore out its welcome by that point
Mostly agree with your points, but I think Majora also kind of sucks with all its fetch quest-based progression.
WW is a stupid unfinished Game, but the music does not suck. If anything I'd say it was the last Zelda game with a great soundtrack.
If you think Wind Waker has a better soundtrack than Twilight Princess you should actually rope.
Just because you were five when you played TP doesn't mean it's good zoomer.
Sorry you guys are too insecure to enjoy the 2nd best 3D Zelda game right behind OoT, you should try it out sometime.
I can't even remember a single song from TP. WW are the Zelda songs I think about the most, maybe you're just a gay?
WW is not my favorite zelda, but I actually really enjoyed playing it as a randomizer because it makes treasure hunting and sailing much more important
>Majora only had 4!
i consider the well+ikana castle to be a straight up dungeon. it literally has a full boss fight too, not some mini boss
They had a cool setting and wanted to make it feel like it was worth exploring the overworld. You really start to feel like you're wating your time when you explore early on and don't have items or abilities to do things on some islands, meaning you have to go through the slog of getting back to them later. Even when you unlock fast travel you need to pull out the wind waker, fast travel, pull out the wind waker, change wind direction, change weapons, etc. The art style is cool, I like the music, I think the story is a refreshing take on a typical zelda story, I like the characters, it just gets tedious. And the dungeons just aren't that fun. They're easy and the puzzles are simple. I just feel like it's harder to get to most of the dungeons than it is to complete them. Side quests based off collecting enemy drops kind of feels like padding too, I'd prefer a fetch quest.
>What the frick were they thinking?
How's Ganker these days?
Kind of off-topic but I tried playing WW and got completely bored and quit. But weirdly I played it not long after playing pic related, a random ass survival game about being a castaway. And I *fricking* loved it. This game was so good, holy shit. So it was kinda weird seeing WW be so similar. I expect zoom zoom replies but I'm not, I just really recommend this game
Mostly "oh frick, how are we going to not get stomped by Sony? Zelda isn't done? Frick you, it's done!"
WW could have been a great game if they finished making it. It needed more dungeons, better dungeons, more stuff in the overworld to justify its size, earlier access to most of that side content (including the triforce hunt). None of these are conceptual problems with the game.
Metroid Prime had a lot more content and had plenty of stuff to find in its large world. The artifact hunt was also executed a lot better than the triforce hunt because it was spread throughout the campaign and didn't have any stupid grind attached.
There's nothing wrong with the art style, sailing, or the story. Those are all fine.
Story is whack, but that's legitimately just how they handled Ganon. They wrote a man who got salty about losing once versus one who was actually reflecting on all of his past defeats. Cause of that we got the legitimately unnecessary split timeline shit
The worst thing about WW is minor islands having no music. Makes it feel like you're playing a half finished beta (because you are)
Wild Wanker
If you're going to complain about anything in WW complain about how moronicly easy it is, which is really saying something for a Zelda game. WW has zero challenge to it, it's a game for babies. I may have used a fairy once or twice across a couple of play thrus, but I don't think I ever got to a game over screen even once.
It's not just combat, dungeons are braindead too.
>complains about Zelda being easy
>in a board full of subhumans that hate 2 for being hard
>you can sail this wide open sea!
>no wait, you can’t. Finish 3 dungeons first
>ok good job now you can do anything
>uhhhhhh why don’t you have this weapon yet? You can’t do anything here
>hey go sail around the world and get these triforce charts
>ok now sail back to this same homosexual and pay him to decipher them
>oh you don’t have enough? Go around the world and grind lol
>good job, now you can go back to those places you already visited and get the pieces
What were they THINKING???
I honestly think they decided on features related to slowing the player down. So basically they went about designing the game around padding the playtime out.
They probably wanted to make cool little islands to explore, but they obviously made the distance between them large enough to mask the loading time for the console.
Then there's the whole changing wind direction in order to sail where the player wants. What they did was decide it could help to prolong the playtime, and then up and decided that that would be the central gimmick or music item this time around.
The artstyle too was a concession, they probably realized early on that the amount of detail they wanted would be too much for their hardware. They purposely decided on cel-shading because there's so little detail "on purpose" for the "style".
They set out to make a game, perhaps it was grander in scope than they could reasonably do, on a fixed deadline. So they continued to concede and recede on features and design until they, forgive me, shit this game out.
I do not like this game anymore. I used to, until I replayed it for maybe the fourth time. Then it all hit me like a truck. Laying out on the side of the road bleeding out of every orfice and imagining a better game the entire time I used to play it.
That's right I used to imagine that the game was better, while I played it. It was actually shocking to realize it.
The game isn't that good, it's arguably not good at all.
They rereleased a high definition remaster. They turned on a bloom shader, they cut out some of the content, and they added the ability to negate the central mechanic, the Wind Waker, which changes the direction of which you can sail, and they made it so you sailed three or four times quicker.
I've never seen such a blatant admission that a game was shitty like this, cutting content, and circumventing the central mechanic.
>ctrl + F
>CEL SHADING
ZERO RESULTS
None of the 26 replies before that one were born at that time or at least cared about vidya about that time
Someone wrote cel-shading
Man, the people in this thread are still so mad about the graphics. Feels like I'm actually back in the past.
Literally wheres even 1 person complaining about the graphics all I see are people actually bringing up legitimate problems this game has.
>graphics over gameplay
>oops we are getting our asses kicked so lets rush it to relaease
It actually has gameplay, maybe that's why you don't like it
Literally where is the gameplay the game keeps you on the tightest leash of the entire franchise until you get halfway through it and then realize the ocean has nothing to discover until you have every single item, and then the game just ends. Worst dungeons in the franchise while also having the fewest, the worst most tedious game mechanics in the franchise having to constantly pull out the wind waker to play songs to change the wind or switch between shitty underdeveloped characters, lame and tiny arsenal of tools and items, underwhelming soundtrack and a story that never gets the chance to get interesting because it doesn't get enough time gives up halfway.
Im not even complaining that its linear, I much prefer linear games compared to the open world slop we get today, but holy shit you have to ease up on the railroading at some point and it feels like it never fricking does. For most of the game the boat tells you to go frick yourself if you go outside the set path they want you to go and then you realize theres nothing to fricking do anyway so I dont know if I should be grateful or just pissed. Twilight Princess may have a long intro but at least once you get to the first dungeon you can do whatever you want barring natural roadblocks you need items to pass.
Its simply the worst 3D Zelda of the franchise and anyone who says otherwise is just nostalgia blind and coping.
Linear games are fine but it's moronic to put a linear game on a giant ocean with like 50 different islands.
If any game should have returned to aLttP progression after OoT made things a little more linear, it should have been WW. But then again, aLttP had a shitton of dungeons to fill its overworld with.
>If any game should have returned to aLttP progression
>after OoT made things a little more linear
It didn't, why do you people keep saying this? You can never explain how LttP is more open without lying about what OoT is actually like.
I think people feel this way because OoT suggests its intended game progression a bit more than LttP does. You have to know the game a good bit in OoT to know how to do stuff out of order whereas in Link to the Past you can just go into any of the Dark World dungeons as you come across them and see whats going on. Kinda just comes down to the difference of traversing a 3D world with a narrative vs a 2D world that more or less doesn't have a story or characters telling you what you should do.
I've played OoT like 40 times and I still feel like I'm more or less forcing myself to do things out of order, not because I just happened to be doing it that way naturally.
nobody's gonna backtrack out of a dungeon to go do something else when they're already halfway through it.
This shit is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. OoT almost never requires exiting a dungeon before completion for its alternate orders, and the only things which do involve doing this with the water temple are interesting because they involve going into the temple earlier than it would make sense to complete it normally otherwise, so you aren't just randomly deciding to not complete a dungeon you'd otherwise be almost done with.
wtf are you even talking about?
WTF are you even talking about? When do you need to get the item from half way through an adult dungeon to do the Fire Temple before or after any of the other adult dungeons?
Why are you making up an absurd scenario and pretending anyone else said it?
You haven't been in many OoT threads, have you?
You implied that you need to "backtrack out of dungeons" to do anything like this, so what the frick is it that are you trying to say?
>You implied that you need to "backtrack out of dungeons"
First of all my first response to you was
and second of all please point out where anyone else implied this. I followed the reply chain and it looks to me like some schizo just started talking about backtracking out of dungeons out of nowhere.
people make that claim often about oot nonlinearity. if you've been in a zelda thread before you'd know this.
I really liked the ocean gameplay and went out of my way to chart the entire ocean. To each their own. To this day there has never been a really really good open world pirate game so Wind Waker still holds up for me but I hope someone does it better eventually. I understand why you wouldnt like it though because there really is no reason to go out of your way to go to other islands other than autistic completionism. Rupees being the main reward felt extremely short sighted when the wallet limit was so small and there wasnt anything to buy other than during the triforce hunt.
I think they tried to encourage some exploration it with the Great Fairy Island puzzle and the Triforce Hunt but everyone just hated those, the Triforce Hunt especially ended up not working at all because it was just way faster to grind enemies in one cave than actually explore.
Not retro but Black Flag is absolutely the best open world pirate game and mogs anything I’ve ever played in that type of setting.
it brought QTEs to the zelda franchise
WW
>Unfinished
>Worst dungeons in the series
>So easy it makes Mario games look difficult
>Terrible pacing
>Game starts with a mandatory stealth mission
>Game ends with a mandatory fetch quest
>All style and no substance
TP
>5 hr tutorial
>bug hunting
>wolf sections
>Terrible pacing
>Ganondorf was behind it all!
>Just as easy as Wind Waker
>Dull ugly version of OoT
>Terrible Anime story
>Useless items
>Dungeons are glorified set pieces
>Overworld is somehow worse than the N64 games.
Nintendo really didn't know what to do with Zelda after the N64.
*Aonuma
It’s just an ultra generic RPG. Fortunately, Nintendo is a baby’s console so it makes for a great introduction to the genre.
you just made me realize something
>early milliennials think LTTP is the best zelda because it was their first zelda
>mid milliennials think OoT is the best zelda because it was their first zelda
>zoomers think TP is the best zelda because it was their first zelda
>in a decade or so we'll be hearing about how BOTW is the best zelda ever because it was gen alpha's first zelda game
there really is no point to discussing this series anymore
>in a decade or so we'll be hearing about how BOTW is the best zelda ever because it was gen alpha's first zelda game
We heard that on release from millennials. BotW is funnily enough the only game to break the Zelda cycle
>We heard that on release from millennials
it was late zoomers praising it if anything, not milliennials
>It’s just an ultra generic RPG. Fortunately, Nintendo is a baby’s console so it makes for a great introduction to the genre.
>omg you guys lttp and oot were totally non-linear!
When did this moronation start?
Wooow you get to pick between two dungeons at two points in each game I can already feel myself cooming at all my options!
People wanted an official trilogy capper to the cliffhanger Majora ended on. Hell the whole entire game is one side quest taken off track from the adventure they themselves set up before Link gets sucked into Termina. Couple that with the spaceworld 2000 video and everyone thought this was going to be an extension of that story w Ganondorf making some sort of final comeback. The video was there to show off the power for sure, but the assumption at the time was we would get a third game in this world just w GameCube level graphics. So to answer your question OP, I have no idea what they were thinking. They set themselves up for failure and could’ve easily done this after finishing what the N64 started and by all accounts from people who have played it and even the ones who praise it here on this board, a lot of them admit it needed a lot more time to bake in the oven. Personally haven’t touched a Zelda game since this dropped. Now obviously they don’t need my money since they’re making hand over fist w the franchise, I just know this is where I got off the Nintendo wagon and never looked back. I still had a GameCube at the time because I was a teen working making money and working at GameStop so I got it for the cheap, but i never touched a Mario or Zelda game on the system other than to try out double dash which was another “wtf” is this. If you like the game, awesome, to me this is where Nintendo lost its way, although that’s a personal thing since clearly sales for the Wii and Zelda onward have been a huge money maker for them w the Wii U misstep that they rebounded strong from, sales wise.