because once you start trying to pose their faces (making expressions) the faces go from a nice default state to a twisted and contorted mess. There are obviously preset sliders you can use for expressions but lots of them are garbage or are made for specific characters. So you're there just trying to increase jaw open, increase smile width, increase blink, increase cheek height, etc. and just hoping it looks decent. not to mention how it looks in preview vs how it looks when rendered is worlds different so it's tiring trying to tweak little things and rendering to preview.. I imagine most creators just get it "good enough" and then give up or deal with it
I've never seen a video with this guy that wasn't kino. He's funny as frick and perfectly nails the balance between not taking things too seriously, yet sticking to the premise and putting effort into his acting.
it is one of those trash wegs where it is two characters in the default posed overlayed over a background for 95% of the game
and you read paragraphs of text explaining the visuals instead of the dev taking the time to render out actual scenes in daz
it is lazy slop
Are you fricking moronic?
There is a difference between a weg like that or light of my life where it is the characters talking over an out of focused background and a game the Visit in which the entire scene is rendered and the only text is the literal dialogue being spoken
3 months ago
Anonymous
Stills with enough transition images work just as good.
3 months ago
Anonymous
No it is fricking lazy as frick
I'm playing a weg I want to see the scenes rendered
Not read paragraphs of text explaining what the dev should have just fricking rendered already
And it carries over to the sex scenes too
Instead of showing all the sex stuff, it just describes it all and throws in a few simple renders that barely cover anything
3 months ago
Anonymous
>I want updates every year instead of every 3 months because the dev has to to do a new render every time someone blinks
3 months ago
Anonymous
Except both the Star Periphery dev and the Light of My Life dev are lazy with updates like any other weg
Say what you want about a weg with an update schedule like WVM or Being a DIK, at least with that you are guaranteed a new render every 3-5 lines of text
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Light of My Life
in his defense his updates are huge
The problem with 99,99% of 3d models is that they insist in doing bras with stupid shaped straps.
Half of the fun of bras in girls with big boobs is to see the bra fighting gravity to hold the boob in place while this shit is just dumb and the more realistic they try to make it the more they fail.
That wood require the author to actually know how to use a modeling program to fix it. And would require extra effort if you want to animate s scene where the breasts move.
Mostly because a lot of these games are low-effort to amateurish.
Lew Lab is improving in that regard but using DAZ as your software makes making good looking breasts very difficult because of how the clothing is shaped over bodies.
It takes special care and attention to do, though it is possible.
>Dreams of Desire >your best friend is a black guy >think it's going to do some "BBC cuc kold" shit >turns out he's just a bro >you can help him to frick his mom and sister while you bang yours
Ya boi Marcus was the best
I really only perpetually check Tales of androginy hoping for a new blowjob scene to be added, or for combat to finally have animations for all sex interactions
I'm often disappointed.
>The Prince Albert piercing one of the most common penis piercings. It's done by inserting a barbell or other israeliteelry through the hole where pee comes (urethra), and out of the underside behind the head (glans)
3 months ago
Anonymous
I'm not sure if Ginny has a wiener piercing or not, but I don't think she does.
Not the best but it has a decent artstyle and cute girls, VA is whatever but I mute it.
Wish it had more regular dating with the girls but it might change when the full version drops.
Imagine being Arnold in that scene and having to be all like "damn, Jamie Curtis, you frickin' fine, all sexy with your tight body and horrific androgynous monster face. I would totally have sex with you, both my character and the real me." when all he really wants to do is frick another 16 year old in his dressing room. Like seriously imagine having to be Arnold and not only sit in that chair while Jamie Lee Curtis flaunts her disgusting body in front of you, the favorable lighting barely concealing her stretchmarks and leathery skin, and just sit there, take after take, hour after hour, while she perfected that dance. Not only having to tolerate her monstrous fricking visage but her haughty attitude as everyone on set tells her she's STILL GOT IT and DAMN, JAMIE LEE CURTIS LOOKS LIKE THAT?? because they're not the ones who have to sit there and watch her mannish fricking gremlin face contort into types of grimaces you didn't even know existed before that day. You've been fricking nothing but a healthy diet of blondes and supermodels and later alleged rape victims for your ENTIRE CAREER coming straight out of the boonies in Austria. You've never even seen anything this fricking disgusting before, and now you swear you can taste the sweat that's breaking out on her dimpled stomach as she sucks it in to writhe it suggestively at you, smugly assured that you are enjoying the opportunity to get paid to sit there and revel in her "statuesque (for that is what she calls herself)" beauty, the beauty she worked so hard for with personal trainers in the previous months. And then the director calls for another take, and you know you could kill every single person in this room before the studio security could put you down, but you sit there and endure, because you're fricking Arnold. You're not going to lose your future political career over this. Just bear it. Hide your face and bear it.
Absolutely none, and I've been 'researching' the WEG scene and reading a few dozens of them.
Very few of them have a palatable writing, and the few that do, usually have bad direction and need editing. Be it some stupid grind for stats (most WEGs end up dropping the shitty lovesim a few hours in), or scene repetitions, or simply bad pace because of the nature of Patreon-slot.
I've said it before but monster girls are rarely done straight and are often just in nukiges(porn focused) or in a joking manner.
That is often also including stuff you would rather class as kemonomi and even furry.
Playing it straight and with them as a big part has only really been done by 1 guy and that is Ray-K with Butterfly Affection and his other titles.
Sadly he has losts his mind over mexican pirates so your only other outlet is japanese vns that atleast have some good designs and cute moments
the brap meme and fart fetishists have ruined butts for me. i literally cannot see a woman's ass anymore without immediately thinking about her farting
real talk anons
why do wegs never finish? dlsite has thousands of completed indie jp games but rarely do I see a completed weg. I've played most of the trending ones on f95 and they're still in production ten years later. TEN FRICKING YEARS. Even covid can't excuse that shit.
Are there any good ones you'd recommend that can't be found on the trending list? Honestly most of the best ones are really old ones that were abandoned. It's like you're cucked either way with the v0.643 shit.
most of them are made to be literal scams. spend a few months releasing an a small update, put it out, get a bunch of morons to give you patreon money and then just coast and collect free money until it dries up. most patrons are too dumb to even know how to cancel a subscription so you can literally just use it for passive income.
I'm not there for the story (unless it's actually good), so the game being complete or not doesn't really matters to me.
There are dozens of complete "games" with 1 or 2 scenes.
There are many incomplete games with hundred of scenes.
Pick your poison.
Buying porn games in Japan is way simpler and not as socially suicidal. Before steam there was no centralized storefront for western porn games. But steel is fricked by censoring harder fetishes because VISA and Paypal hate them. And the allure of stable income from Patreon is way too hard to resist. Many authors come from poor european shitholes where getting 1000€/month makes you a local millionaire.
because they unironically require more effort than hentai slop
every hentai game is the same anime shit only a handful of renders, really short and cutting out routes like nothing
compare being a DIk to literal any hentai game and see the difference in the amount of work going into it
Most are made by unironic russians or indians because even a shitty patreon that gets like $500 USD a month is an above average salary there.
The ones that actually try to be games but get stuck halfway through are usually westerners that have very limited experience and don't know what they're doing and don't comprehend when starting the scale and amount of time it needs before getting burnt out on it.
you only look at him from the back 3/4ths view, I don't think it's too distracting, just to give the idea that you're always facing the other characters and they're the focus and can sometimes occupy like 80% of the screen, you never see his face head on
It always drives me mad how a lot of games just have both characters facing forwards in 3/4ths view, it just doesn't work
We're never getting a e-girl weg aren't we?
I'm working on one 🙂
Which is the girl who ends up getting fricked by a dog
hey I never said there would be beast content in my game but if there is it will probably be another side girl, not part of the main 6
the barrier is probably daz since they end up looking like miniature adults, but there's some in lewdcorner if they didn't frick with their system another time since the last time i visited it
The actual barrier is payment processors making it risky to milk paypigs via Patreon.
It'd have to be a hobby project which is a massive lol lmao in the weg industry.
there was a e-girl weg dev posting on those threads last year, the last time I saw him he was looking for ways to monetize it, never saw him again lol
but a lot of those use subscribestar, and a lot more normal artist will too since they keep changing the rules there, might finally stop seeing landlord characters
I more or less finished every game that has actual preg content (not just impreg/1 cg at the end of the game) so I deleted all the games out of my porn game folder
monster girl 1000
free cities pregmod
adam & gaia is strictly text only but I kinda like it
cabin at the lake has some
idk it's slim pickings off the top of my head
tried grandma's house?
there is very little gilf content overal but what is there is top tier I would say. very loving but also erotic.
just skip/disable every other girl lol
>that pic
I can see where her wig starts, that's just bad
`Hopefully you bought that game to support the creators.
Can't play my favourite WEG right now, still waiting for that update
Why do weg women have this uncanny look every time?
They're Slavic
because once you start trying to pose their faces (making expressions) the faces go from a nice default state to a twisted and contorted mess. There are obviously preset sliders you can use for expressions but lots of them are garbage or are made for specific characters. So you're there just trying to increase jaw open, increase smile width, increase blink, increase cheek height, etc. and just hoping it looks decent. not to mention how it looks in preview vs how it looks when rendered is worlds different so it's tiring trying to tweak little things and rendering to preview.. I imagine most creators just get it "good enough" and then give up or deal with it
what program is this? daz?
yes
>WEG
>bra straps glued to the body
I've never seen a video with this guy that wasn't kino. He's funny as frick and perfectly nails the balance between not taking things too seriously, yet sticking to the premise and putting effort into his acting.
shit game
why make a weg if you aren't going to render out actual scenes and the dialogue?
what are you talking about
do you mean animate ?
it is one of those trash wegs where it is two characters in the default posed overlayed over a background for 95% of the game
and you read paragraphs of text explaining the visuals instead of the dev taking the time to render out actual scenes in daz
it is lazy slop
No idea what you're talking about, I played it and it has scenes
The goblin one was pretty good
Are you fricking moronic?
There is a difference between a weg like that or light of my life where it is the characters talking over an out of focused background and a game the Visit in which the entire scene is rendered and the only text is the literal dialogue being spoken
Stills with enough transition images work just as good.
No it is fricking lazy as frick
I'm playing a weg I want to see the scenes rendered
Not read paragraphs of text explaining what the dev should have just fricking rendered already
And it carries over to the sex scenes too
Instead of showing all the sex stuff, it just describes it all and throws in a few simple renders that barely cover anything
>I want updates every year instead of every 3 months because the dev has to to do a new render every time someone blinks
Except both the Star Periphery dev and the Light of My Life dev are lazy with updates like any other weg
Say what you want about a weg with an update schedule like WVM or Being a DIK, at least with that you are guaranteed a new render every 3-5 lines of text
>Light of My Life
in his defense his updates are huge
>stopped drawing to make ai slop
i commend ur patience
troony game, buy an ad
I'm learning to draw so I can make a weg
(inb4 AI shills. I don't want to steal and make slop)
>people pay for renpy games that basically use the same model
People pay $5-15 MONTHLY for games that get 20 seconds worth of content per month.
Crowdfunding was the biggest mistake since smartphones
And I get to play it for free
what's the problem here ?
I have 100+ porn games
All free
Thanks, suckers
The problem with 99,99% of 3d models is that they insist in doing bras with stupid shaped straps.
Half of the fun of bras in girls with big boobs is to see the bra fighting gravity to hold the boob in place while this shit is just dumb and the more realistic they try to make it the more they fail.
That wood require the author to actually know how to use a modeling program to fix it. And would require extra effort if you want to animate s scene where the breasts move.
>wants the game to look realistic
>doesn't want to spend time making it look realistic
And then you would cry how the author is wasting time on bras instead of making new scenes.
please tell me that's a penis
Upload pic folder anon holy
https://exhentai.org/tag/artist:strauzek
I just get a pic of a panda. Is this bait?
Replace the x with a hyphen, gays
GE seems to be down, how do I login to the forums to get a cookie for ex?
Wew that's a blown out butthole.
Anon, update your bait, the panda has been gone for years already and now you just get a blank page.
>Anon, update your bait, the panda has been gone for years already and now you just get a blank page.
Wait, really?
Try it in an incognito session if you don't believe me.
Man now I feel old. I don't even know what's the point of anything anymore.
seconding for penis hope
there needs to be a realistic workflow for content to be delivered in sensible intervals to paying customers
Yeah, not everyone can be like nyl2 and spend a month experimenting on how to make best looking cumshots and semen dripping effects.
Mostly because a lot of these games are low-effort to amateurish.
Lew Lab is improving in that regard but using DAZ as your software makes making good looking breasts very difficult because of how the clothing is shaped over bodies.
It takes special care and attention to do, though it is possible.
New Grandma's House just dropped so I'm playing that
can u frick the grandma yet? if not its such a fricking slop
Nope, but the last update was just non-stop creampieing your mom
bro the shortstack is so fking hot
Yes.
>Dreams of Desire
>your best friend is a black guy
>think it's going to do some "BBC cuc kold" shit
>turns out he's just a bro
>you can help him to frick his mom and sister while you bang yours
Ya boi Marcus was the best
I really only perpetually check Tales of androginy hoping for a new blowjob scene to be added, or for combat to finally have animations for all sex interactions
I'm often disappointed.
Why can't his other game be as good?
not an incel so none
daz3d and blender were a mistake.
I'm waiting for the next Star Periphery update, but the dev is being a humongous Black person with his current delay
if he doesn't make a habit of it i still believe but it's admittedly a huge warning sign
You'r- sorry, he's too busy shilling it here to work on it
no he's just a moronic slav who can't into deadlines
That's enough self deprecation.
>no piercings on any of the futas
Dropped
Ginny has piercings (one to the right of the protagonist)
Better be a proper PA.
PA?
Prince Albert, duh?
what
Dude you need to really hit the books and study.
>The Prince Albert piercing one of the most common penis piercings. It's done by inserting a barbell or other israeliteelry through the hole where pee comes (urethra), and out of the underside behind the head (glans)
I'm not sure if Ginny has a wiener piercing or not, but I don't think she does.
Man this would be so much better without the futa, just let me get my hips crushed by giant women.
>this game would be so much better if it was the opposite of what it is
no
Uhh holy based?
a futa with a ton of piercings is the hottest thing ever
why must us Chads suffer?
Not the best but it has a decent artstyle and cute girls, VA is whatever but I mute it.
Wish it had more regular dating with the girls but it might change when the full version drops.
Imagine being Arnold in that scene and having to be all like "damn, Jamie Curtis, you frickin' fine, all sexy with your tight body and horrific androgynous monster face. I would totally have sex with you, both my character and the real me." when all he really wants to do is frick another 16 year old in his dressing room. Like seriously imagine having to be Arnold and not only sit in that chair while Jamie Lee Curtis flaunts her disgusting body in front of you, the favorable lighting barely concealing her stretchmarks and leathery skin, and just sit there, take after take, hour after hour, while she perfected that dance. Not only having to tolerate her monstrous fricking visage but her haughty attitude as everyone on set tells her she's STILL GOT IT and DAMN, JAMIE LEE CURTIS LOOKS LIKE THAT?? because they're not the ones who have to sit there and watch her mannish fricking gremlin face contort into types of grimaces you didn't even know existed before that day. You've been fricking nothing but a healthy diet of blondes and supermodels and later alleged rape victims for your ENTIRE CAREER coming straight out of the boonies in Austria. You've never even seen anything this fricking disgusting before, and now you swear you can taste the sweat that's breaking out on her dimpled stomach as she sucks it in to writhe it suggestively at you, smugly assured that you are enjoying the opportunity to get paid to sit there and revel in her "statuesque (for that is what she calls herself)" beauty, the beauty she worked so hard for with personal trainers in the previous months. And then the director calls for another take, and you know you could kill every single person in this room before the studio security could put you down, but you sit there and endure, because you're fricking Arnold. You're not going to lose your future political career over this. Just bear it. Hide your face and bear it.
But she was hot in that scene tho?
>hiding their best assets with the text box
Cmon!
I genuinely think your kind is the rock bottom of fetishes.
What if I tell you that what really gets me off is the ankle and toe bones protruding?
i think futa is worse(they are literally homosexuals in denial, like this homosexual
), but the footgays are more annoying.
I am a futagay and a footgay!
You WILL be forced to see my fetishes in all of your porn games, whether you like it or not!
You can do what you will, but it won't make a difference, because we have already won!
>fakku
WHAT YEAR IS IT
I don't care about futa, feet, harem, e-girl, incest, any of that shit
What I want an end to is anal. I despise anal with all my heart
lmao
post more kino my new life dialogue
i should replay it for the lol
A man can't replace the appeal of a hung futa schlong trust me I tried
In most Renpy games, you can press H to hide the dialogue box.
>LoML hardly ever gets posted anymore
I miss seeing my cute goblin daughters every now and then
Just played through Villain's Legacy.
Unimpressed.
>play WEG for the porn
>stay for the writing
What's her name, Ganker?
Hero party must fall
I just wanna see how it all ends at this point.
There aren't any.
Dik for my wingman. The lesbo plot could take a hike tho.
Absolutely none, and I've been 'researching' the WEG scene and reading a few dozens of them.
Very few of them have a palatable writing, and the few that do, usually have bad direction and need editing. Be it some stupid grind for stats (most WEGs end up dropping the shitty lovesim a few hours in), or scene repetitions, or simply bad pace because of the nature of Patreon-slot.
WVM
Acting Lessons I think
Superhuman
wegh
I love my dumbass Oni wife
>city gets delayed
>but it's to add an amazon, tanned, bunnygirl witch
>mfw
>want monster girl games
>stuck with LE SILLY games that take nothing serious
why can't i just get a serious monster girl game
I've said it before but monster girls are rarely done straight and are often just in nukiges(porn focused) or in a joking manner.
That is often also including stuff you would rather class as kemonomi and even furry.
Playing it straight and with them as a big part has only really been done by 1 guy and that is Ray-K with Butterfly Affection and his other titles.
Sadly he has losts his mind over mexican pirates so your only other outlet is japanese vns that atleast have some good designs and cute moments
wiener?
futa isn't gay
Game?
>weg where the mom is disgusted by your actions and you have to groom her into accepting your advances
any wegs like this?
Jackpot.
what game
Same as the OP. I'm starting to think his author has a thing for feet...
SpunkStock Music Festival
my queen
what game?
photo hunt
are the scenes animated or is just still slop
Why do so few wegs focus on admiring butts of all shapes and sizes?
the brap meme and fart fetishists have ruined butts for me. i literally cannot see a woman's ass anymore without immediately thinking about her farting
So this makes you immediately think of shit? Pretty grim.
disgusting
You are an actual homosexual. Congratulations.
and youre a Black person
Please have a nice day
Please live happy
If you don't get this cottage cheese ass out of my face
ok then
Heart Problems has some great butts.
What game anon?
WVM
Cosy Cafe. It's quite cosy
real talk anons
why do wegs never finish? dlsite has thousands of completed indie jp games but rarely do I see a completed weg. I've played most of the trending ones on f95 and they're still in production ten years later. TEN FRICKING YEARS. Even covid can't excuse that shit.
Are there any good ones you'd recommend that can't be found on the trending list? Honestly most of the best ones are really old ones that were abandoned. It's like you're cucked either way with the v0.643 shit.
most of them are made to be literal scams. spend a few months releasing an a small update, put it out, get a bunch of morons to give you patreon money and then just coast and collect free money until it dries up. most patrons are too dumb to even know how to cancel a subscription so you can literally just use it for passive income.
I'm not there for the story (unless it's actually good), so the game being complete or not doesn't really matters to me.
There are dozens of complete "games" with 1 or 2 scenes.
There are many incomplete games with hundred of scenes.
Pick your poison.
Buying porn games in Japan is way simpler and not as socially suicidal. Before steam there was no centralized storefront for western porn games. But steel is fricked by censoring harder fetishes because VISA and Paypal hate them. And the allure of stable income from Patreon is way too hard to resist. Many authors come from poor european shitholes where getting 1000€/month makes you a local millionaire.
most are just lazy yes, but the average weg has much more cg than japanese games
because they unironically require more effort than hentai slop
every hentai game is the same anime shit only a handful of renders, really short and cutting out routes like nothing
compare being a DIk to literal any hentai game and see the difference in the amount of work going into it
Most are made by unironic russians or indians because even a shitty patreon that gets like $500 USD a month is an above average salary there.
The ones that actually try to be games but get stuck halfway through are usually westerners that have very limited experience and don't know what they're doing and don't comprehend when starting the scale and amount of time it needs before getting burnt out on it.
what are some good games with characters that aren't goblina daz monstrosities or hentai garbage?
real porn?
Well OP I'm still grinding my own weg in fact
mostly working on the brat correction scenes, pic unrelated she's just optional shota bait
Frankly I prefer that the MC is faceless or the face is conveniently hidden behind something.
you only look at him from the back 3/4ths view, I don't think it's too distracting, just to give the idea that you're always facing the other characters and they're the focus and can sometimes occupy like 80% of the screen, you never see his face head on
It always drives me mad how a lot of games just have both characters facing forwards in 3/4ths view, it just doesn't work
I'm working on one 🙂
hey I never said there would be beast content in my game but if there is it will probably be another side girl, not part of the main 6
The fact you even responded to my shitpost means you've got a sense of humor. You do your best out there.
havent seen your shit in a while. godspeed
Which is the girl who ends up getting fricked by a dog
>veiny feet
Now were cooking!
We're never getting a e-girl weg aren't we?
Ganker is milf board. been here since 2016 and it was a milf board back then too.
>been here since 2016
Holy f***! Since 2016?! Amazing...
Game?
very very sexy older lady
Good luck trying to get money out of that.
the barrier is probably daz since they end up looking like miniature adults, but there's some in lewdcorner if they didn't frick with their system another time since the last time i visited it
The actual barrier is payment processors making it risky to milk paypigs via Patreon.
It'd have to be a hobby project which is a massive lol lmao in the weg industry.
there was a e-girl weg dev posting on those threads last year, the last time I saw him he was looking for ways to monetize it, never saw him again lol
but a lot of those use subscribestar, and a lot more normal artist will too since they keep changing the rules there, might finally stop seeing landlord characters
There's quite a few of them homosexual you just don't know where to look apparently.
Modded Stardew 🙂
Why is all the well animated 3d porn nowadays on R34 video troony, futa? cant these homosexuals make straight shit?
Nobody wants to bother making detailed male models.
this
why waste time on men?
because its awesome
just need more male on futa content
>I want more MEN in my porn!
>t. "straight" man
>I want wienerS in my women
>t. "straight" man
If you wish to have wieners in your man then don’t drag us into this, anon.
>If you wish to have wieners in your man
What? is this some sort of gender identity conversation? Men have wieners that's just how nature is.
i dont exactly want to be watching a troony plow a woman doesnt matter what nonsensical rebuttal you have
I don't exactly want to be watching a man plow a woman.
you do, its just a man with surgically added breasts aka a troony
We're talking about futas, not trannies.
Why are these always so low budget and shitty? Didnt BG3 prove that there's a market for mocapped gay porn already?
Because rendering needs a strong PC and the authors are poor. And then you would just whine how a glorified visual novel requires over 30gigs.
Even nyl takes like over a month for a 5 minute animation
That won't work for these games
I more or less finished every game that has actual preg content (not just impreg/1 cg at the end of the game) so I deleted all the games out of my porn game folder
got any recs? im fricking sick of seeing "preg" tags and its just 1 fricking frame at the end
monster girl 1000
free cities pregmod
adam & gaia is strictly text only but I kinda like it
cabin at the lake has some
idk it's slim pickings off the top of my head
damn already played a couple of them, ill have to check out adam and gaia, i usually dont like text stuff but its worth a shot
Any ntr game that doesn't lean on cheap ntr tropes like ("I took your picture" blackmail)
oh damn Franks adventures or smt like that
one of the first goon games i have ever heard of
from a friend during middle school
i like games with GILFS
Needs more cellulite and tasteful stretch marks.
I like girls with evil vibe too!
nice taste
Huminahumina *jaw drops to the floor*
tried grandma's house?
there is very little gilf content overal but what is there is top tier I would say. very loving but also erotic.
just skip/disable every other girl lol
>that pic
I can see where her wig starts, that's just bad
>tried grandma's house?
why yes i have
why is the big sister so hot
How many fricking weg threads do you trannies need? Why can't you just stay in your circlejerk generals on /aco/?
grandma's house is garbage don't understand why people play that shit
even wvm has more of a story and why to frick girls than that game
>grandma's house is garbage don't understand why people play that shit
ppl play it because it has an enormous amount of content.
the content is all shit though and you don't even frick the grandma yet
/ss/ wegs por favor amigo
game?
>male voice during action is too audible
>male looks too uncanny
>male even exists
>male depicted in any way
Might as well be gay porn. Literally.
Also? Anal = Artificial Gay Sex
>>male even exists
>Might as well be gay porn. Literally.
>what's left is only females having sex with other females = not gay
hmmmmm