What went so right?
How come the franchise hasn't been able to surpass it since its release?
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What went so right? How come the franchise hasn't been able to surpass it since its release?
>How come the franchise hasn't been able to surpass it since its release?
It has transcended it.
>Lagttila
>better
Nah
streamlined it in a good way, every part of the game have a clear purpose, battles are fast paced with the most logical set of rules regarding unit stats
>It has transcended it.
with fall of the samurai yes
Look, I like Attila for what it is but S2 is just complete work. Every single piece of fits with others, nothing sticks out. Also very comfy if you are starting in some regions far away from Kyoto death bowl.
Same shitty combat system as Rome 2.
>goes from choreographed 1v1 combat from sword masters to units stabbing at air subtracting from a health pool
The day total war died
>choreographed 1v1 combat
>honorabru duels on a battlefield like in my animes
Stupid weebBlack person.
>stabbing air
That came with WH.
>stabbing air
this rarely happens, and happens in all games except shogun cuz shogun has that shitty 1v1 moronation
>cavalry AI during settlement battles
Attila is great, but the general-needed for army moronation and shit performance make it inferior to s2
Attila isn't great. It just has a better campaign than Rome 2, but everything else is still bad. Attila is the most overrated game in the series by far.
When the AI only has to deal with arr rook da same spearmanii it plays smarter.
One of the biggest issues with modern total war games is that unit diversity just absolutely rapes the AI.
What are you talkong about?
>actually linking to volound
absolute cringe, remove yourself
>still mad he got put in his place on Rome 2 several times through the scientific process
You don't offer anything and he beat pointman in a tourney as soon as the match started because he didn't pretend the game isn't bullshit, so Volound stays.
>actually defending Rome 2
>quantitative differences that don't really matter because they all still faceroll they way to victory
Nice
hi volound, did you clean your wheelchair yet?
Oh no the uni diversity argument again
t. butthurt /k/ hohol
>just skip over showing him demonstrate what a garbage faceroll the battles are with FRICKEN JOKE
The post of someone who has no argument left and is forever destined to resort to smol brain strawmen just to make it possible to argue for the sake of arguing and fanboying.
>The post of someone who has no argument left and is forever destined to resort to smol brain strawmen just to make it possible to argue for the sake of arguing and fanboying.
my homie, you posted an eceleb and i am the one fanboying? lmao
>lmao
shhhhh little boy run back to class or a gentle harvestman is going to show you a world of pleasures you're not ready for
you are such an embarassment volound, jesus christ
Volound buried your game that CA apologized for. Move on already.
you mean the game that sold 800k copies in 2013 alone? the one that has 3 times the amount of players that shogun 2 has? that game? he buried it?
you are an insignificant bug volound, i don't care for shit what your opinion on any game is
you have no impact, you've been banned from everywhere and this is why you and your moronic gayboys come here after you direct them from discord to shill and try to get us on your side, you disabled commie frick
>muh sales
Hahaha holy shit okay you can go back to r/total war now that they cucked out of their little protest.
you claimed you "buried" a highly succesful game, did sitting on the wheelchair for too long stop the blood from reaching your brain and are having early onset dimentia?
why are e-celeb dick riders always so pathetic?
in this thread is seriously sticking up for that scottish vegan sheep-fricking manb***h Volound.
lol
lmao
it's probably him
>posts proof that nu-dividedbytwochan /twg/ is just redd!t migrant cancer
Is this supposed to be a false of flag or do Warhammer toddlers really think this makes them look good?
>gets so mad he posts on reddit about it
it shows how moronic volound is
i love following volound everywhere, reddit twitter youtube
i am obsessed with this specimen, truly a wonder the scottish brain is
>/twg/ full of kneel and apologize posts after Warhammer 3's awful launch which was only the beginning
>you get so buttmad and obsessed that you don't thinking making that makes you look like a tourist and gay as hell
Epic
you wanna know how i know you're volound? cuz only a moron would take shitposting on /vg/ seriously
have a nice day you unsufferable homosexual, your Discord circlejerk is just as bad as the Redditors you constantly bash
Lesten heer noo, ye daft bastar, there hasnae been a good Total Wurgh sence 2011.
Three Kengdoms was a FRICKEN JOKKE.
Wurhamur? ALSO A FRICKEN JOKKE.
Look hou the musketeers fire! MUSKETEERS WAIR MUCH BETTER EMPLEMENTED IN ROM 1.
[20 minute tangent about Dishonoured]
And that brengs me back tae Shogun TU. These sestems ar PAIRFECTLY emplemented; look at the yari testudo, wurking in unison weth the Balearic slengers tae form a spectacular EN-DEPTH combat line... [slew of meaningless technical jargon and verbal masturbation] LOOK HOU GOOD AT VEDYO-GAMES I AM GUYS
ah yes, clearly early legionary cohort had a use throughout the whole game and was never replaced with legionary cohort, and pretorian cohorts are completely different than urban cohorts
i won't even go on about the moronation that is not being able to reinforce your hastati etc after the reformation
i mean seriously, to all nostalgia homosexuals, look at this unit tree
https://rtw.heavengames.com/rtw/info/units/rome/
tell me this is better in any way shape or fricking form, this is moronic
oh and i fricking forgot the atrocity that is the greek cities and selucids
>militia hoplites
>hoplites
>armored hoplites
>spartan hoplites (only if you own sparta)
>selucids
>militia hoplites
>pike levy
>pikemen
>silvershield pikes
>silver legionaries (they take 2 turns to train for some fricking reason and cost more to build and upgrade and are only available as tier 6 units unlike the roman version which takes 1 turn, is tier 4 and costs less and is 100% 1:1 identical stats wise
so even the cool copy of roman legionaries never fricking gets used, ever
>the cheapest basic unit in the game gang rapes everything including hero units
>ashigaru spam trumps everything
>even if it didn't there's no unit variety
>only diplomacy that will ever matter is trade routes and war declarations
>AI breaks if you do anything other than turtle
>broken siege battles
>useless siege units
>snoozefest naval combat with only 3 different naval units
>family tree is worthless
>realm divide
>legendary difficulty gives the AI unlimited funds but is still dumb as frick
>incoherent unit mosh pits
>individual soldiers will only engage in 1 on 1 combat
>most annoying announcer imaginable
>flavourless events
>city/castle building has no depth other than "upgrade farm, win game"
>Ikko Ikki
>blood pack
If by right you mean wrong, then everything.
>muh unit variety
Stopped reading there, Warhammertroony
Reddit is still down it seems. Historytards should be banned from any TW discussion.
>implying
homie, plebbits Total War is filled to the brim with Warhammergays like you
>even reddit is smart enough not to listen to historytards
>backtracking this hard
God, truly all gayhammer fans are (either physically or mentally) nothing but children
>the cheapest basic unit in the game gang rapes everything including hero units
>ashigaru spam trumps everything
Thankfully, you let everyone know you haven’t played the game longer than 10 turns in your life, so no one has to waste time reading what you said about a game you’ve clearly never played. I thank you for not wasting anyones time.
>ashigaru spam trumps everything
The worst samurai unit, yari, can solo wipe 2-3 ashigaru units by itself. Katana and naginata can wipe 4/5 solo.
You can beat a full 20 stack of ashigaru with 5 Katana samurai.
I don’t believe you. Yari wall is stronk. Best anvil. Such a good anvil. I love u little anvil
>Yari wall is stronk
>literally 3 vollys from a bow ashigaru wipes your unit in wall formation*
Heh.
Just don’t get hit
homies out here droppin yari walls of text
i laughed
Yari wall is only even approaching OP if one rushes into it head on with no thought like a gormless moron.
Yari walls get tired as they are held and what’s more due to their density are minmaxed arrow fodder, wait out their endurance or break them with a storm of arrows before going in for the kill with ideally katana samurai who will be able to break them with ease from the front once they are weakened like this.
Barring that, it’s just a pike wall, flank it, and not even meme tier Rome 1 pike wall, they will take casualties from the front fighting against anything stronger than bowmen in melee.
These are not hard to break for anyone but the ai with even minimal preparation
And to be clear, you don’t even need to do this, Katana samurai will give plain Yari walls a run for their money easily, I’m simply describing this out of pity on the off chance you really do need the help understanding things
Adding on because I feel like it, so many are under the mistaken impression that raw Yari wall is even good, no, hell naw.
Outside of the early game the point of the Yari wall isn’t to make them powerful, it’s to make them, a bottom tier melee infantry even somewhat competitive with the next tier of units which are by and large available at the start of the game.
The thing that makes this reputation so powerful is that for this level of power, Yari are fabulously cheap and easy to mass, for Oda especially who get effectively a third off their Yari upkeep on top of boosting the Yari ashigaru’s piss poor stats, which makes a big difference in melee especially early game.
Yari then have the “Potential” to scale into the late game as your starting Yari armies gain veterancy as you undoubtedly snowball your conquests and you bolster them with building upgrades, because yeah, a fully kitted out Yari ashigaru is nothing to scoff at in his Yari wall, but at that point, they still won’t top kitted out Samurai that you should have in an endgame scenario, and are still more than vulnerable to arrow fire.
The perception of omnipotent Yari just comes from minmaxing Oda campaign players
There's a reason you don't see too many yari ashigaru in avatar conquest. However, the fact that they do compete with higher tiers is great because it actually gives you variety rather than the classic total war cycle of working towards the best units always. Shogun 2 actually makes you consider composition.
Definitely, every unit has its purpose.
The much maligned Yari samurai makes for an ideal flanking unit, fast and a natural predator against cavalry balanced by its middling raw stats.
Katanas being the reliable melee expert of the roster in exchange for vulnerability to cavalry and a lack of other great qualities.
Naginata being the most defensive of the Samurai, shrugging off missiles and being more resilient in general but lacking the speed and raw power needed to excel in an offensive role.
Naginata monks being a supreme melee unit but incredibly fragile against missiles and commanding a cost to match.
None of these are undefeatable alone and the only place where there is a hard hierarchy of quality being archers speaks to the elegant design of the unit roster, as compared to other total war games where it feels like I’m just running a threadmill to get it the last tiers of units which completely obsolescence the rest of my army
>Naginata being the most defensive of the Samurai, shrugging off missiles and being more resilient in general but lacking the speed and raw power needed to excel in an offensive role.
It still bothers me how the announcer says naginatas are weak to arrows when that info is blatantly fricking wrong
Unrelated tangent but this is also what has made the old Med2 recruitment/replenishment system grow on me, in my experience it made my armies feel more like building out of necessity than being able to minmax an optimized composition for every single force, and it made the flow of battles feel better too.
I remember attempting Scythian and British playthroughs in Rome 2, shit was utter tedium, mash your stack against the enemy army who will retreat and by the time you chase them to the settlement from whence they came they’ve fully recuperated and leave you with not enough troops to besiege so you withdraw and repeat this several times.
>Unrelated tangent but this is also what has made the old Med2 recruitment/replenishment system grow on me, in my experience it made my armies feel more like building out of necessity than being able to minmax an optimized composition for every single force, and it made the flow of battles feel better too.
disagree, it's one of the main reasons i can't replay the old games
that system forces you to never use elite units whatsoever cuz a single loss will not be reinforced till you walk all the way back to your own settlements for the tier 6 building that makes it
i'd appreciate a supply line system or something but this is better than retraining
as for what you said about rome 2, that game had really low replish rate and i hated that, i think you can increase it with tech and perks but it sucks
I felt the same starting out so I can’t say I can’t see where you are coming from, but nowadays I just feel like it works better with how I play.
I will disclose that the Scythian playthrough was modded, but in the British one, yeah, my army replenished slow while the ai spewed out a fresh new army by the time they were in fighting shape, the sheer frustration of it wards me off every time I think of going back.
>i'd appreciate a supply line system
The supply system is yourself building all the units you can and cycling between reinforcing your main stack and merging. Then sending depleted units (at least less than 1/4 of its size)back to the city, of course the issue is that units aren't any faster in most modded maps and even then you usually don't have enough cap to maintain constant reinforcements
Oda longspears are ridiculously powerful.
That’s a different case altogether, because yeah, I agree.
Giving Yari wall, a force multiplier meant to make a trash unit somewhat capable of being cost effective against higher tier units, to a unit that is not only a cut above in stats but has an event better version of it to match?
Yeah that’s pretty damn busted but that’s the Unit pack for you, and it costs more than plain Yari so one could argue it’s fair to compare them to Samurai in tier
>so many are under the mistaken impression that raw Yari wall is even good,
If not what is the best unit to just hold the line while you maneuver your flankers?
>You can beat a full 20 stack of ashigaru with 5 Katana samurai.
Ok, show it on video.
Late but to settle what this anon said as fact, proof of pudding, I'm using a mod that changes the unit names but otherwise its completely vanilla balanced and the funds were skewed to the ashigaru's side 150
Granted, this is an idealized test
To indeed prove the ai did in fact yari wall
Second test, raised veterancy across the board to improve Ashigaru morale while preserving cost parity, the samurai with 50 left was ganged up on by 2 yari walls, one from the front and flank, I purposely crashed them into the front of the closest yari wall for both these tests
Another image for reference, I was thinking about trying it the other way with me attempting to control the ashigaru, but I think this illustrates the point well enough and any attempt to do that might be questionable
>I was thinking about trying it the other way with me attempting to control the ashigaru, but I think this illustrates the point well enough and any attempt to do that might be questionable
how?
As in I swap sides and try to kill the samurai with the Ashigaru.
I probably could by simply yari wall stacking one after the next, but I'd still have plenty of casualties and is unrealistic, considering their ideal play would be to just ignore the yari wall while my ashigaru tire and get pelted with arrows
dishonest, people never said the AI can do what made the yari wall broken but the players
that's the point, the most optimal tactic in shogun is the most boring one while this is harder to do in say warhammer due to faction variety
>the most optimal tactic in shogun is the most boring one while this is harder to do in say warhammer due to faction variety
>You see Anon, it’s better that the most optimal tactic isn’t me broadly generalizing you stretching the potential of pike tactics to it’s limit with this easily compromised unit but instead in my game where the optimal late game composition is either some manner of mass modifier stacking, spamming 19 of the biggest single entity you got or 19 busted ranged units.
Alright, taking the piss aside, of fricking course the player is going to be better than the fricking ai but you’ve got your head up your ass if you can look at this and still think it’s an “optimal” strategy to Yari spam for anyone but Imko ikki and Oda in the opening hours of the game, the ai can and will spam mass amounts of samurai who will rout spammed spears in an instant, hence the point of the experiment, even taking into account cost effectiveness, there’s something to be said for the notion that it doesn’t matter how much money you save if you simply lose
>of fricking course the player is going to be better than the fricking ai
yeah, but for the player this was 100% the most optimal tactic, much like how phalanxes and pikemen wouldve been that in rome 1 if they were available to say, romans
>rout spammed spears
that would require the AI to flank lmao, which it doesn't do right
>taking into account cost effectiveness
i think this is the biggest point everyone makes, this is the best bang for buck in the game
>simply lose
if people simply lost then it wouldn't have been that popular of a tactic
>but for the player this was 100% the most optimal tactic
No it isn’t, read you dumb shit, Yari walls are the quite literal minmaxed arrow target one, and if you can afford it there is no case in which adding in samurai to support a Yari formation is somehow worse than a big dumb manpower wall
>that would require the AI to flank lmao
Anon, in the first test you can literally see that in total, the samurai killed around 150 each, the enemy ashigaru started routing at 50 loses from the front which incurred max 20 casualties on the samurai side
>i think this is the biggest point everyone makes, this is the best bang for buck in the game
For the role of a frontline line holder, not as a end all be all you actual illiterate pigfricker
>if people simply lost then it wouldn't have been that popular of a tactic
Send me proof of you using plain Yari ashigaru to fully rout a mid game ai samurai stack in an open field battle and I’ll concede
Scratch the last bit, to save you the time, make a full stack of nothing but a general and Yari ashigaru in custom battle, give your enemy a full stack with 1 general and evenly split between Yari, Bow and Katana Samurai, Naginata samurai excluded for being from the tier 2 spear dojo, give 4-5 levels of veterancy to your Yari and then try to win this confrontation without camping on impassible terrain or corners on the crossroads map, there, faster and easier
what you think doesn't change the meta of the game, no matter how many "tests" you do
yari walls are the most optimal approach to shogun 2, anything else is pure cope
>Muh Yari is literally invincible
>asked to demonstrate
>Runs away like a b***h
Ok, so you’re saying your so bad at the game your Yari phalanx can’t save you?
i'm not going to install shogun 2 to prove something that is fact to you, even googling should answer you on why yari ashigaru are meta
>He retreats
The smell of your copium exhaust is sweet as victory
okay, yari walls are still the meta
>Waaah why don’t you believe me, waaah you may have your evidence but I have my heckin google search results on r/totalwarinos!
>i am upset you won't engage with my moronation, the post
yari walls are the meta, cope seethe etc
Mad cuz bad
Here we get to see a repeat of why even if you go the extra mile to test a claim. The two shameless responses below are what you're always going to be met with after goal post shifting has been exhausted.
In warhammer the most optimal tactic is get enemy to blob up around a single unit and spam magic and every faction that can't do that is shit.
>you haven’t played the game longer than 10 turns in your life
by 10 turns game is over and this rule applies to every total war game
that is if you play on legendary on easier its basically done in turn 1
but enough about Warhammer
warhammer is the hardest game in the series lmao
>blur and film grain over bland colors
I'm convinced game devs and people who like this shit never fricking go outside.
>Literally the reason Realm divide exists
Anon…..
You don’t play until Chaos invasion in warhammer either I take it?
most people that buy those games have like, 5 to 20 hours gametime and it's fricked up
>not handicapping yourself by waiting and not expanding so you can use elite units on the campaign
WHY IS GUNPOWDER UNLOCKED AFTER 100 TURNS IM GOING INSANE
This is what mods are for Anon, no matter what anon above you choose I'd be pretty fricking shocked if one of them said Gunpowder's research requirements weren't way too long
>>the cheapest basic unit in the game gang rapes everything including hero units
spam trumps everything
>only TW game where the T1 units still have use except for getting replaced by another unit
>people still complain
> Realm divide
> Wrong
Bait so bad I can’t be assed to reach into my pictures folder for a mocking image
>individual soldiers will only engage in 1 on 1 combat
this one pisses me off the most
it looks cool, but it fricks up everything
i hated it, and ive seen people asking for it back in newer releases which is fricking moronic
oh and the ashigaru spam is also annoying, the game was really moronicly balanced and not in a fun way
I'll take the bait frick it.
>the cheapest basic unit in the game gang rapes everything including hero units
Wrong
>ashigaru spam trumps everything
same as last point, still wrong.
>even if it didn't there's no unit variety
sorta fair but its what give shogun such a tight combat dynamic, the DLC units add in more flavor for sure and break the standard "triangle" of unit counters and guns are an all around must.
>only diplomacy that will ever matter is trade routes and war declarations
Just like every nu-TW
>AI breaks if you do anything other than turtle
Just like every nu-TW
>broken siege battles
Fairish, it was better in multiplayer but in singleplayer the AI spreads its forces out too much and doesn't prioritize the general aurora leading to easy routable units.
>snoozefest naval combat with only 3 different naval units
Never used bomb ships, or cannon ships, or even the faster sailing ships, clearly you played alot.
>family tree is worthless
has enough in there but its worth expanding, you can choose family members to have faction wide buffs.
>realm divide
?
>legendary difficulty gives the AI unlimited funds but is still dumb as frick
Just like every nu-TW
>incoherent unit mosh pits
Just like every nu-TW
>individual soldiers will only engage in 1 on 1 combat
Just like every nu-TW
>most annoying announcer imaginable
Dumb
>flavourless events
Just like every nu-TW
>city/castle building has no depth other than "upgrade farm, win game"
????????????????
>Ikko Ikki
Fair
>blood pack
Cheapest blood pack of them all, now go play gayhammer and pay $10 USD for it rather than $.99
dont know what this is about, but you can actually form functioning alliances in warhammer 3 which is a first for the series kek
i dont even mean this as a praise of warhammer, just the absolute state of the series
Anecdotally, I have had game long alliances in shogun 2, given, usually I end up being the one to break them but I only perceive chronic backstabbing in Medieval 2, I cannot speak for Rome 1 due to the fact I go full murderhobo and make no alliances
rome 1 is really just medieval 2 with a different skin, with all that implies
For the most part yeah, but I didn't know for sure if the ai for diplomacy behaved the same and I didn't feel like pretending I did
Rome 1 has battle mechanics that actually work and units that respond, so it's better by default
dont know, rome 1 is the game i put most hours in (even more so than my hours in warhammer shogun and everything else combined) cuz i was autistic as a kid and it's not that great responsiveness wise
Then you will love Med 2, where units take a full 10 seconds to all respond to orders and some like horse archers will just straight up ignore you.
yeah i think its just the old engine
it's especially worse in sieges in the town centre, it feels like there is a weird big invisible box around everything and it freaks units out
also the warhammer blood pack is 3.45 bux,shogun 2 is 3
the blood dlc is some bullshit man
difficulty gives the AI unlimited funds but is still dumb as frick
>Just like every nu-TW
unit mosh pits
>Just like every nu-TW
soldiers will only engage in 1 on 1 combat
>Just like every nu-TW
>>most annoying announcer imaginable
>Dumb
events
>Just like every nu-TW
building has no depth other than "upgrade farm, win game"
>????????????????
comparing white bread to shit doesn't make white bread delicious
>cheapest basic unit in the game is especially noteworthy
>but there's 'no unit variety'
You failed at the first step
I'm genuinely curious which TW is your favourite.
>most annoying announcer imaginable
YOU HAVE-A BROUGHT UH GRAVE DISHORNOR TO OUR HOUSE
Having an actual art style did wonders for this game. Pound for pound it aged the best, it somehow manages to look better than total wars released after it. Rather than
>”le make everything shit brown like historions said the world was!”
They found a medium and created artwork. It wasn’t ultra realistic it focused on being beautiful, easy on the eyes, colorful, and warm. Something they have abandoned for some strange reason.
Maybe because they’re just pushing out retextured shit at a record pace to keep getting pay piggies money there’s no real time for artistic design. Attila was a copy paste of Rome two with a Instagram tier filter slapped over everything. The war hammers, don’t even get me started on the laziness there, they essentially keep branding dlc as a new game than create 100$s of dollars in dlc for each “game” that used to be something modders did for free. It’s looking like the next game is a lazy minimal effort uninspired asset flip of Troy too.
The only problem with shogun 2 is the samey feeling of every faction. Aside from usegi ottomo and ikko you are fighting the same units with your units over and over again. Player armies filled with meme units like matchlocks, heroes, kisos, bulletproof samurai help break up the arr rook the same part, but it takes a long time to get to a point you can build armies like that.
Late game was top tier. Usually after a certain turn mark in every other total war you are unstoppable. I’d rather have too much difficulty and challenge than literally none like every other title give you. Kyoto siege and defense are kino, realm divide is when the game actually starts, and black ship hunting is really fun.
Also best dlc of all time is fall of the samurai. They fixed the arr rook the same and created the best gunpowder total war.
Because they but work into making it immersive. Japanese farmers don't speak perfect english with a wienerney accent, the music actually fits the setting and isn't just "generic action track #6" and units and unit cards fir the era seamlessly.
This too. Shogun 2 is just nice to look at and doesn't have a mexico piss filter.
>The only problem with shogun 2 is the samey feeling of every faction.
I'd argue that's one of its strengths. You know what units the enemy has, how they work and how to counter them instead of every unit having some arbitrary stat that doesn't interact with another faction's unique unit. And when you have the same units most of the time strategy, maneuvering and positioning start mattering more.
>most annoying announcer imaginable
Opinion instantly discarded
>I'd argue that's one of its strengths
This, the battle royale style of the game was designed amazingly. Similar units really force the player to lean into a clan's strength. The map was linear, which naturally guided the player towards Kyoto, but also had width and plenty of ambush locations.
What sucks is Rome 2 tried to have lots of colors - the Romans are not just red but yellow and orange as well - but all of that is hidden behind a fricking piss filter.
The piss filter was removed years ago dipshit
>fots good attila bad
absolute state of weebs
>muh yari wall
The real worth of yari ahigaru is cost effectiveness. 2 stacks of ashigaru mog single stacks of samurai in autobattle for a fraction of the cost. Same thing with bow kobayas.
It's not even just autobattle. Getting flanked 2 to one is not something samurai can handle. And samurai cost triple what ashigaru do.
High tier units are only good in defensive sieges which are basically just a series of 1v1s.
>autobattle
I feel this plays a big part in the downfall: CA basically started designing the game for people who auto-resolve by default, which is what CA themselves do judging by the shitty way they play battles
>autobattle on legendary
nothing, you are just a delusional nostalgiagay like most people here
>game from 2011 is considered nostalgic
Zoom zoom!
yeah, it is nostalgic
it's been over a decade since 2011
if not shogun then it's rome 1 and medieval 2
you can be worse and like medieval 1 and shogun 1 in which case just die already
anyways my point stands, i played all those games on release that i mentioned (except shogun 1 and med1) and i can tell you without a doubt that they aged like a piece of shit yu forgot to flush
I guess there's no accounting for shit taste. Go play age of empires or warcraft or another regular rts.
yes i will, lmao
at least im going to have a fun and balanced experience
>shit tastes
i played those games, i loved them
to think that they are something the series can't top is moronic
i used to be nostalgic, i hated everything
i eventually stopped it and fricks sake i'm enjoying things again
the first guy replying to you is not me, i haven't played age of empires or warcraft since 2010
>spearman spam: the game
>spam yari
>win
amazing game, 10/10
i hate weebs so much
Bottom looks exponentially better on the eyes. It’s amazing what art style can do
the bottom is in a beautiful japanese place with cherry blossums falling down
top is in the realms of hell with plagues armies marching through it
both have different art styles and both do it well imo
>Japanese thing straight up looks better despite being over 10 years old
Warhammer bros...
It's the magic of not having a piss filter.
keep in mind those are my own screenshots without any filter applied to them
and yes, the game is supposed to look grim and dark compared to shogun 2 showing how beautiful japan is, though warhammer has some pretty green places like cathay
the bottom is zoomed in and shows how detailed the models are
the top is not, quit coping already
Anon, it still looks like shit...
the models are way prettier and way better animated
but it is not JAPANESE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>our brown corpses have higher resolutions and better animations than your colorful and beautiful historical setting!
different aesthetic, you moron
>why are there Chariots when people are riding horses
don't know man, ask humans in ancient times who rode chariots when horses were a thing
>cartoony
moron
>>why are there Chariots when people are riding horses
>don't know man, ask humans in ancient times who rode chariots when horses were a thing
Older horse breeds weren't strong enough to act as cavalry, but could pull chariots. Once that changed, there was no reason to keep using chariots. The first anon is correct.
but it's a fantasy game
>but it's a fantasy game
That's a valid argument. It's not a valid argument to say it worked the same way historically.
Rome I's unit rosters are still the closest thing to fantasy after Warhammer and Troy.
>still looks worse
Ain't to shit on WH because I play it too but Shogun 2 remains beautiful and has a better art direction
i like warhammer's dark atmosphere more
japan is beautiful, the world of warhammer is a hellhole and the game captures that beautifully
that is not to say there isn't anything good looking, it's just meant to be more dark
I unironically thought this was a fantasy mod for M2
you would've called it soul then wouldn't you?
but anon you can exterminate katana asiatics in FoS with european weapons
NTA but honestly I don’t really enjoy FOTS as a gunpowder game if for no other reason than the ai seems determined to prove that a wall of Yari kachi Zuluing your lines is the end all be all of Gunpowder tactics
Wrong reply dammit, meant to be
nice piss filter homosexual
that's a battle in the nurgle realm, it is meant to look like piss
>NO ITS MEANT TO LOOK LIKE DOG SHIT
Look at the composition for fricks sake. Everything is yellow and brown including the UI. Its absolute dogshit made by a moron with no artistic abilities.
yes, and it only happens in that region
it's not a filter across the whole game, just for this region
>best melee unit in the game is only recruitable by the naval focused clan
Always found this funny.
Much cheaper than Katana samurai, with higher melee defense, identical attack, but less armor(so wins 1v1s 100% of the time against any non hero) and the ability to sneak anywhere while walking
Wait, I thought the poortugay tercos were the best melee unit in the game
I haven’t checked stats or cost, but mori wako raiders are 50 coins cheaper per turn next to katanas on hard. They’re the best value I’ve found. Loan swords are close to the best value but wakos have the moral and attack to kill anything and a better defense than regular katana samurai while being cheaper
I play with infinite gold cheat.
It had Jeff van Dyck composing the music. Why CA dropped him for Beddow ill never understand.
attila was the last good total war. yo Black folk have no taste
>samurai cucks getting uppity again
i should stop, but i hope i proved my point
warhammer's art direction is different but it's absolutely stunningly beautiful and by far the most detailed strategy game ive seen as far as unit models go
all total war games are ugly as frick when zoomed out, which is the mode you actually play the game in. I tried these warhammer games and the battles last like two minutes and everything was ugly. The AI is shit in all the games too. The campaign and the battles are disjointed from each other. Campaign strategy doesn't matter that much when you can wipe the AI in every battle even if you're severely outnumbered. It's just fricking pointless. Why should I have fun in micromanaging my three spies and seductress agents and their +1 cunning +3 logic traits when the battles themselves have been fricking shit for the entirety of the game series?
Frick these games, they could be so much better with minimal effort, but they're super popular and make tons of money BECAUSE they aren't. That said, Napoleon and Fall of the Samurai were the peak of the series, and actually still the best-looking too when zoomed out. Gunpowder combat somehow fits the games better and makes them at least a bit more tactically interesting. It's still just a powerfantasy because the AI will suicidally walk into ready firing lines.
warhammer total war is best played in a coop head-to-head, the AI simply can't provide a challenge even with cheats.
My friends and I always play with maxxed out campaign difficulty, but normal battle, then we just always fight on behalf of the AI, get some very intense battles you otherwise wouldn't.
Just give us agentic AI that can learn iteratively. Not depending on co-op in a poop sock game.
ok ok one last one
This game became so stupid, like wtf are these chariots even and why are there Chariots when people are riding horses.
The first game actually had a really cool setting, then the second one made it far more cartoony and then the redditor manchild adjusted DLCs totally ruined the tone of the game.
rome 1 had chariots alongside horses (in the same faction too like egypt and selucids)
Any TW that came after this worth playing? Not interested in warhammer
attilla for survival horror experience
troy for the shittalking experience
Fall of the Samurai if you like guns, Three Kingdoms if you like diplomacy, Attila if you don't mind low fps
FOTS has to be the worst TW ever.
>gunpowder feels like shit compared to napoo
>ai can't handle firearms combat at all and gets BTFO even worse than in the base game
it is literally the worst of both worlds
>mfw the Total War series got ruined by a bunch of gays that prefer "pretty" art models (not even animations, see guns "firing and reloading") to functional gameplay (imagine having worse sieges than goddamn Empire, lmao)
Any other examples of this?
>claim that shogun looks better than warhammer
>get absolutely blown the frick out
>change the topic completely
fascinating
>why yes I am too moronic to consider that different comments might come from different anons, how could you tell?
Fascinating indeed
Forgot the functional part, my bad. I was making a case about the art design being basically disconnected from the gameplay, which is why you got things like gunners having no reloading animations or units attacking at nothing
>Fascinating indeed
nah, you know you can't claim the game looks worse so now looking better is a bad thing somehow
>Forgot the functional part
they are functional, their animations affect combat and sync kills between monsters and whatnot
reloading is a fake animation that does nothing, this has been discussed before
get the mod that adds reloading animations, it makes no difference between it and shogun
>worse sieges
only weakness of the game, total war always had shit sieges but warhammer is truly miserable in that regard
>units attacking at nothing
happened throughout the whole series, and rarely so in warhammer (on release it happened but got fixed)
Again, that wasn't me, moron.
>reloading is a fake animation that does nothing, this has been discussed before
Of course it does something, it helps with immersion, gay. Why even have models at all if you are not going to make them behave logically? If you are so uncritical as to accept whatever trash CA throws at you, why even have walking or flying animations either? You could just make the units float in position while moving. Warhammergays truly are infuriating in their consumption of garbage, gods
>happened throughout the whole series, and rarely so in warhammer
Lol, not even close to the same degree. You either didn't play any old games or don't really watch you units in combat.
>Again, that wasn't me, moron
well you trying to use it being pretty as something against it is moronic, cuz you know you can't claim it looks worse cuz if it did you'd be parading it
>Of course it does something, it helps with immersion, gay
sure then get a mod to do it, the models behave logically otherwise
i've no clue why CA doesn't want to add reloading animations but you act like it's a game breaker or something when you can mod it in like every human being does
>Lol, not even close to the same degree. You either didn't play any old games or don't really watch you units in combat
i've played the shit out of the old games, rome and med2 were notorious for units swinging at nothing or having their arms hit nothing and that kills a model near it.
it was like that around release, maybe the remaster fixes that but im not paying for that garbage
i've rarely seen it happen in warhammer around release and never seen it after immortal empires
you think that happens cuz of the HP system but it doesn't cuz every model has its own HP
>reading comprehension
Good lord, i am not using "being pretty" against it, moron. I am arguing that you moronic Warhammer fans only care about the looks of it, instead of the actual game.
>sure then get a mod to do it, the models behave logically otherwise
I hope CA is at least paying you for this shilling, lol
>you think that happens cuz of the HP system but it doesn't cuz every model has its own HP
Dumb zoomer gay. Now I know for sure you didn't play any of the old games, kek
>Warhammer fans only care about the looks of it
but i don't, the gameplay is absolutely a blast plus it looks amazing
>I hope CA is at least paying you for this shilling, lol
not an argument
>Dumb zoomer gay. Now I know for sure you didn't play any of the old games, kek
again not an argument
dilate, or post proof of any of your claims
>but i don't, the gameplay is absolutely a blast plus it looks amazing
Seriously, I hope you are either baiting or being paid
>dilate, or post proof of any of your claims
Ah, yes, the classic "I am not a zoomer newbie, I swear, watch me use a poltard meme word"
>if you like (popular game) and think its gameplay is good that means you are baiting or paid
not an argument
>Ah, yes, the classic "I am not a zoomer newbie, I swear, watch me use a poltard meme word"
pure nonsense that is unrelated to any argument
>if you like (muh appeal to popularity) and think its (shitty) gameplay is good that means you are baiting or paid
Well, you are right. You might also be moronic
>pure nonsense that is unrelated to any argument
Whatever you say, zoom-zoom
i accept your concession
*something something increasingly moronic thread of (you)s and counter(you)s*
There, I saved us both a lot of time, you can now imagine we baited each other for hours or whatever, childish zoomgay.
again, accepted
I'm the original anon you responded to, most of your screenshots still make the game look worse. Not a good look
also
>not even animations
are you kidding?
the nurglings are more animated than anything else in the series
but the old was so good bros, impossible to top
Shogun 2 is better then future games by virtue of getting to move units without a fricking general. Also, the gun effects and sounds are far better then Warhammer.
Play Total War: Empire 2 Generals
CLEARLY militia hoplites have a use all the way to the late game and are totally not replaced the moment hoplites are unlocked (who get replaced by armored hoplites)
the only reason you don't make full spartan armies is cuz only sparta can train them and they take 2 turns
I use militia hoplites because they are cheaper and basically are just a fixing unit for letting peltasts do the damage
>the homies itt unironically defending the games that deny you the possibility of moving troops without a general
Almost as homosexual as Volound not going to lie.
lol
lmao even, cope your nostalgia is not reality, you got btfo the whole thread
>cope your nostalgia is not reality
? Is it not reality that older Total Skirmish games allowed you to freely move units around?
>you got btfo the whole thread
I have to wonder which anon do you believe I am.
Don't forget army limits.
there is no army limits in warhammer afaik, not sure about rome 2
you are nostalgic and you convinced yourself that a shit mechanic is somehow good when all it did is break the AI and make it run around with small stacks
the current system exists cuz we used the old system and it fricking sucked, it's way better now
>you are nostalgic and you convinced yourself that a shit mechanic is somehow good when all it did is break the AI and make it run around with small stacks the current system exists cuz we used the old system and it fricking sucked, it's way better now
>both the player and the AI now have lower flexibility
>the AI now leaves flanks unguarded
>AI still creates moronic stacks, thus nothing got fixed at all
Now, that is coping. Anything else?
>both the player and the AI now have lower flexibility
>AI having flexibility
nonsense, the game is already complicated enough for an AI to handle, all this did was break shit
also it's a shit mechanic that came with the >no reinforcing unless you retrain, so yes it sucks
>AI still creates moronic stacks, thus nothing got fixed at
it does, but they are led by generals and follow a set pattern now instead of the AI recruting a single spearman and moving it around for no reason cuz it forgot why it made or the army it wanted to reinforce died
there is no world where that mechanic is good, it's moronic
it also made turn timers longer cuz of all the shit having to move and be calculated for
>no reinforcing unless you retrain, so yes it sucks
? Napoopan/Empire and Shogun had replenishment without eliminating independent armies
>nonsense, the game is already complicated enough for an AI to handle
Lmao, do you have any arguments besides literally shilling for simplifying the game instead of making a more complex AI? And if the point is to make it easier for the campaign AI, why not reintroduce the RISK map from Shogun/Medieval?
>but they are led by generals and follow a set pattern now instead of the AI recruting a single spearman
>why yes, the only memewar games that existed were Rome & Medieval II
Fantastic, any other dumbtakes?
> Napoopan/Empire and Shogun had replenishment without eliminating independent armies
okay, i respect you a little more that you agree that the system is better
still, i hate the moronic small units system, let me see your other points
>Lmao, do you have any arguments besides literally shilling for simplifying the game instead of making a more complex AI?
where am i shilling? yes simplifying a moronic complex game to make the AI (which is already struggling enough as is) struggle less is good
shilling would imply i am selling a product or something when i am simply defending a game i like
>>why yes, the only memewar games that existed were Rome & Medieval II
>Fantastic, any other dumbtakes?
literally has nothing to do with what i said, just you being a moron for the sake of inhaling your own drool
>okay, i respect you a little more that you agree that the system is better
We are not in reddit, gay.
>where am i shilling?
>defends eliminating flexibility to "fix" an issue already fixed by Napoleon/Empire & Shogun II
>not shilling
Would you defend the RISK map or not, homosexual? And if not why?
>shilling would imply i am selling a product or something when i am simply defending a game i like
>not only shilling but doing it for free
100% you are a janny in r/TotalWar
>literally has nothing to do with what i said, just you being a moron for the sake of inhaling your own drool
>too dumb understand the implied meaning that only Rome and Medieval II had the single unit armies problem
>calls others moronic
Again, any other takes?
>We are not in reddit, gay.
said the discord Black person
>Would you defend the RISK map or not, homosexual? And if not why?
irrelevant nonsens that has nothing to do with this but make a moronic point so you can fart and inhale it
>100% you are a janny in r/TotalWar
again, a moronic accusation that can only come from a toddler, but sadly i know you are an adult
>too dumb understand the implied meaning that only Rome and Medieval II had the single unit armies problem
>calls others moronic
>Again, any other takes?
you didn't make any points at all in this moronic reply but project more moronation
rome 2 sold more than shogun
warhammer 1 2 and 3 all sold more than shogun medieval and empire
the old style of games is never coming back, the new games are objectively better
my bad for treating you like a human being and humoring you with a real argument
>said the discord Black person
>not only a redditor immigrant but a discord-troony too
Amazing
>irrelevant nonsens that has nothing to do with this but make a moronic point so you can fart and inhale it
>N-NO my point that simplification is good has nothing to do with this example of simplification
Wow, not only a moron but a coward moron, kek
>you didn't make any points at all in this moronic reply but project more moronation
>again, a moronic accusation that can only come from a toddler, but sadly i know you are an adult
>EH, YOU ARE NOT UNDERAGE
I know you must be quite disappointed, troony-janny
>explain the point to him seeing as he is too dumb to see it for himself
>still too dumb to understand it, proceeds to appeal to popularity for some reason
Lol, you are a funny one, reddit-janny. Hope I see your takes around more.
>hurr durr bfff aaaaaa hnggg i'm moronic
fascinating
Isn't it funny how all discussion eventually devolves into such moronation between two parts? I once saw a thread of nothing but two anons mockingly posting what the other said with increasingly moronic basedjacks, still better than whatever redditors do though
it's pretty fun to be honest, i hold no grudge towards anyone i argue against on Ganker cuz it's fun and unironically makes this place feel less of a hivemind and have actual discussion
I hope no one takes arguments here seriously to be honest. Nevertheless, I still despise CA for eliminating independent armies, but not as much as I despise them for dropping Three Kangdoms (the first Total War with actual diplomacy, god-damnit).
i haven't gotten into three kingdoms, but when i started it the soundtrack was fricking great
It's hard to appreciate when there's a good chance someone's going to act like a baboon in response to absolutely anything you could possibly say. Banter is fun but people here have gotten fricking unhinged.
NTA but I determine a quality of a TW purely by how I play it, and not how many other reddit normies sit being a captive audience, if I wanted to merely play by their fiddle I'd go play fortnite.
And I can say, I've never had more frustratingly tedious as frick experiences with TW than Rome2 and certain parts of warhammer as someone who has poured 125 hours into the former and a combined 1000 into the latter trilogy with a 220/780 split netween the first two games, I'm sticking with med2 nowadays.
See
No hard limit, but instead a factionwide percentage increase in upkeep that iirc is multiplicative with itself, which if you ask me encourages the exact problems that forcing a hard army limit enforces.
As for the ai breaking and running around with small stacks, thats not a problem with the old system, it was an ai issue, its like pointing to a leak being a problem of a pipe when the problem is that it has shitty fittings.
If the beastmen are once again having a 10 unit stack sit at the ass end of my empire and raiding, now instead of just pulling up some low tier untis and heading them off instead of calling my main army, I have to either halt my entire offensive with an army to go on a wild goat chase or recruit a new one to bloat my expenses for the rest of my military exponentially for some reason
also to add, warhammer having no army limit is a disaster cuz the AI keeps spamming cheap stacks instead, i hated that
if it was up to me i'd add an army limit and a unit limit like the tomb kings do
>only a single faction recoulored 8 times
>MOBA-tier campaign map, one long island with lanes
>no siege equipment, japanese soldiers are all just professional climbers for some reason who can scale huge walls in full armour
>the absolute worst endgame in the series "everyone declares war on you lol"
>dumb fantasy shit like "samurai hero" units
>grrrl power warrior nuns bullshit
>ridiculously overpowered DLC units catering to nu-TW paypiggies
it's dogshit, a significant downgrade from Medieval 2
hell even Napoleon was better than that trash
napoleon looked cool but played like dogshit without mods, i hated that
shogun is only ever fellated cuz of volound and his fanboys, the game is okay just like all total war games
>shogun is only ever fellated cuz of volound and his fanboys, the game is okay just like all total war games
It's one of the best games with one of the shittiest players
weeb ass homie
>discussion is about it being a shit game not a whether it's a commercial success
>link volound video where he dismantles people's excuses by playing it in front of them and then playing the same setup in Rome 1 with the enemy having Praetorians
>mention CD having to apologize, as the game did overwhelmigly get negative reviews
>gets 20 patches from a company that like to drop support quickly for its titles, and that still couldn't save this game
>WHADDYA MEAN BURIED MUH SALES
So recognizing context is the basic and essential requirement for reading comprehension.
well you clearly failed the context check as the thread has nothing to do with rome 1 or 2 you moronic disabled mongoloid
>keeps up the bad faith
Get ready Volound dump come Pharoah. He is part of your life forever now, rent-free.
you sound very confused and upset,i like it
most civil total war thread
Attila mogs Shogun 2, the scottish troony can seethe as much as it wants lol
>muh Attila
>start as Barbarian Kingdom/Great Migrators/Celts/SandBlack folk/Huns
>carve up WRE territory devoid of armies
>all other barbarians love you for fighting WRE
>win
>Start as Sassanids
>swat white Huns in the first 20 turns
>win
>Start as Slavs
>lol poison arrows
>win
The closest thing this game has to a challenge is playing the Romans and even that requires no strategic forethought, only abusing battle AI. By comparison S2 with short campaign and Realm Divide actually forces you to think beyond first 20 turns.
It's tragic. Shogun 2 should have been a stepping stone, not something to throw stones at for a few imperfections. Having a navy pointless? FOTS gave it relevance. That's the rational response instead of removing navy entirely from Total War and throwing out the baby with the bath water.
So yeah congrats nu-tw fans taking pot shots at a 12 year old game that wasn't further built upon after Rome 2 reinvented the wheel. Celebrate that decline into goyslop mediocrity.
Navies were barely in use in the bronze age, also you shouldn't be able to intercept the sea people raids.
also this too, but the first recorded naval battle was infact at sea people
>The first recorded sea battle was The Battle of the Delta, the Ancient Egyptians defeated the Sea Peoples in a sea battle c. 1175 BC.
also
>iron age started at 1200bc
so this battle was more of an iron age thing than bronze age
anon, that's the time period of pharaoh. The bronze age collapse lead into the iron age.
yeah right next to the shore, battles in the middle of the sea were almost nonexistant
>so this battle was more of an iron age thing than bronze age
lol
yeah, the iron age started at 1200bc, which makes them an iron age battle and not a bronze age one
i don't know at what time pharoah is set though
>The Late Bronze Age collapse was a time of widespread societal collapse during the 12th century BC, between c.1200 and 1150.
Also bronze was still the most used metal in Egypt until like 700 BC anyway.
>battles in the middle of the sea were almost nonexistant
you can count the number of significant high-sea battles in history to date on one hand
warhammer has no navy cuz the tabletop has no navy battles and they had nothing to copy from
i don't think it was removed cuz it's pointless
Man O War anon....
Plus, Cathay and the fat ghost lady shows they are perfectly willing to fill the gaps
>Plus, Cathay and the fat ghost lady shows they are perfectly willing to fill the gaps
i guess, but that's recent
before they were too timid to piss people off on TW center i guess
Thats fair I guess, plus we all know how testy GW could be with the IP.
I can definitely see the argument that it would be low priority for WH1 but for 3, its a disappointment in hindsight for me anyhow.
It was also never make me sBlack person how CA literally obsolesced a modder's implementation of naval battles mere days after they posted it to workshop.
>there will never be a mod where you can unite all of Japan and fight off hordes of western armies.
Just host a head to head campaign and get a buddy to play as Otomo
>Get a buddy
Might as well ask me to find the Titanic sub.
I'm doing the same test while controlling the ashigaru and the samurai lose badly to getting sandwiched from both sides.
As expected, but outside a vacuum if one is able to sneak a full yari wall around a flank the samurai player really has no one to blame but themselves if you ask me.
A yari wrapping itself around like that like that is wank worthy charge opportunity
There's really nothing special about surrounding an army that you outnumber 2 to 1.
Hence outside a vacuum, in any campaign scenario you'd try to put samurai in a position to be supported by more expendable ashigaru, either flanking them as a hammer or being screened by them precisely so you don't get flanked.
Like I said, these 1 unit type only tests are overly idealistic
How do I use matchlocks in this?
Park them where they have a clear view of the enemy, be that in front of a gap, on a hill, on a flank etc and just let them go to work
Use the mod that gives them 150 range, they will melt anything in their way
This isn’t necessary, the reduced range is what makes them balanced and you want them to be firing from close range anyway, they will pretty much ignore any armor that isn’t specifically made to be bulletproof, and have incredible effects on enemy morale.
Btw if you have gunpowder cav, the increased height is enough for them to shoot over your front line, useful for Tokugawa shenanigans and FOTS
I can't take anything this board says seriously about Shogun 2 after realizing most people play on normal/hard difficulty exclusively. Also, if you are spamming Yari Ashigaru and nothing else as the majority of clans, especially Shimazu or Takeda, I'm going to laugh at you.
Cry about it.
Nah
>Only upgrading economic structures
>Thinks morale doesn't matter
>Thinks katana sam are worse just because they're more expensive
>Is pressed for cash despite spamming economic structures that he needs to consider the two options from an economic standpoint
He is genuinely making the game harder for himself and so is everyone else falling for the memes. Imagine ignoring guns at otomo, monks as uesugi, or katanas as shimazu. Full moron
>people literally talking about how they're completing their games in record times by following this strategy after trying to make samurai work
>outnumbering samurai 4 to 1 (or more) because you don't have to waste time and money on building up samurai infrastructure and recruiting them at a snail's pace doesn't matter because... because it just doesn't, ok?
You're coping so hard right now.
Congratulations on beating easy, anon!
Congratulations on coping, moron.
>Time and money building samurai infrastructure
>1.5k and 3 turns for a katana dojo
BROKE homie ALERT
Easy players don't even know how much money you can make in legendary.
He's running to /vg/ now to salvage his ego
not him, (you) tho
If Yaris are so irrefutably powerful, why do you need a personal army from a different board to make an argument for you?
you are the one that linked to another board
there are multiple total war threads here with history vs fantasy arguments
Yeah self-contained dead ones.
like this dead thread that was made 6 days ago now
It's the easiest strategy that works on every difficulty.
https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/14974/edmons-guide-to-ashigaru-delivery-strategies
Nice thread. Guy is getting dunked on with effort posts the whole way through.
Where?
My only beef with this game is the whole slot system for settlements. Everything else is fine.
I liked how they simplified certain mechanics. The map itself is also just a bunch of corridors and of course the unit roster was the same for all factions.
It made the game more focused and thus more complex, Med2 and Rome had more of a simulated style but really there was no challenge in those games while Shogun 2 on legendary is actually pretty difficult especially with realm divide.
It was a deliberate design choice and it fit the limited space of a Japanese map, then they tried to apply these changes to more grandiouse settings like the ancient world iself or the Warhammer universe and it sucks.
If your game is small you have to simplify the mechanics and if your game is big you have to expand on the game mechanics to keep it interesting. At least Warhammer has the gimmicky assymetric factions thing.
>features getting simplified in other total war games : removing of complexity, casual shit
>features getting simplified in shogun 2 : great, streamlined and amazing
Yes
Honestly? I like it when some level of complexity remains. And games like Warhammer would've been better if they had something like this + maps that are closer to older Total Wars like Medieval 2. Especially better province management and none of that slot bullshit for settlements. Wouldn't have had anything against if they used the one from Empire Total War, but that's too much to handle stuff like implementing the ability to set your taxes and such.
i hated it, the game is called total war not total management
the management should be simple so that it plays a background to the battles
Depends. I want it simple in areas that should be simple. But not simple in places that shouldn't be. The slots being one of them. Not to mention they obliterate my suspension of disbelief.
well the empire 2 was way too far imo, especially since the AI had no clue what the frick to do in it
only ITT do you have people denying that the meta of shogun 2 always was yari spam
to be fair they're right about intricate samurai balance - in skirmish. The problem is it sounds like many of these players are deathly afraid of interacting with other human beings, so I can only assume they are only playing campaign.
while cost effective, the real reason yari spam is so good in campaign is because you can just park a general near them and they might as well have unbreakable. You just have to snipe ranged since that will kill them too fast (even if it doesnt break them).
I remember wondering if all the hojo bombs were worthless when I first played since they failed to morale shock my troops as long as a general was nearby.
The REAL reason yari spam is good in campaign is because you can dedicate all your buildings and research to economy instead of building shitty dojos and researching +1 to attack with certain unit types. Having a shitton of units means you can capture a lot of territory very quickly, which snowballs into victory.
You can get all the samurai you need after a couple turns of research lol
This remains true until your yari deathball inevitably runs into an enemy developed enough to deploy Samurai countermeasures.
Unless you are playing Oda on a low difficulty and exploiting the piss low upkeep.
But you wouldn't do such a thing and present it as an all case right Anon?
There is no amount of "samurai countermeasures" that can win outnumbered 4 to 1 or worse, not even on Legendary. You're literally going in circles now.
yeah cuz the AI will surely build something to counter, and not just build based off of moronic templates
this too
in skirmish mp, the unit cost makes them the best too but i think this is pushing it on my end since i never play total war games in mp
In skirmish mp, spamming yari ashigaru will get you destroyed because players aren't stupid enough to send their units straight into them and will just destroy you with bow warrior monks
i dont like shogun 2, but this yari thing is a result of games being too hard on legendary
there is only a certain point where you can push difficulty, till it just breaks the game and your enjoyment is ruined
yes yari walls are the most OP strat on all difficulties, but it wouldn't have come to this if the game didn't push players into this corner on legendary
>i dont like shogun 2
>games being too hard on legendary
>yari walls are the most OP strat on all difficulties
did you even read the post? a game needs balanced difficulty cuz at a certain point you push too far and the player pushes too far and ends up exploiting the game and ruining it
shogun 2 is an example of that
your denial that yari walls are the meta is the most moronic thing ever when every single fricking forum in the world agrees except you ITT
>did you even read the post?
Beat legendary and I might care
i have beat legendary in every total war game that came out i played since rome 1
in shogun 2 i had to use yari walls to do so cuz every other strat i tried felt pointless
cope seethe etc
Why do you write like a 12 year old girl texts?
not an argument
>every single fricking forum in the world agrees except you ITT
Neither is this. Even worse we have a link to a forum of people not agreeing on this at all.
Go try your yari shit on legendary with Takeda and Date barreling down at you after being exhausted by an Oda that's not using all yari nor yari wall. Go try and field a yari army financially large enough for this while the enemy deals with no occupation resistance. One little AI tweak with blacksmithed dynamic army compositions and that's the final nail in the coffin for your yari long game.
>Even worse we have a link to a forum of people not agreeing on this at all.
The only reason they're disagreeing is because of roleplaying reasons and it being too "cheap" to win this way.
you are rarted, the guy replied to you already so i see no need to show
>buzzwords
Anon who did the test here, as much as I can appreciate the effort, I don’t think it is worth the time to argue against people whose idea of research is playing Oda on easy mode and corner camping as a supposed point about how Shogun 2 is supposed to be designed poorly, rather than it being an ai issue
Yeah this is going in circles.
Posters celebrating how they're min/maxing Oda units with OP's wall of text walkthrough and exploit tactics forcing a defensive game putting siege engines in the corner with stand and fight.
Sounds familiar
the strategy is viable on legendary you moron, on easy anything is viable
You can say that, and yet the only anons who actually sound like they have experience don’t seem to believe you
You mean the guy who's too afraid to fight AI controlled samurai?
The one you levy that accusation at is me Anon, once again I invite you to do the test on your end, if not I shall do so tommorow and if I do I will accept no dispute of it’s veracity
>y-you can't call me moronic anymore!
Fricking kek.
???
the thread is filled with links to forums of people doing this on legendary
Perhaps I misphrased, they don’t believe the mindslop accusation that it is the best way to play.
Samurai and ashigaru you see, are meant to be used in concert with one another.
Unbelievable I know, the thought that a flanking Yari ashigaru or katana linebreaker could fill niches that amplify a yari’s effectiveness in ways the Yari cannot, shocking to one’s mind
holy shit what a moronic post
the strat is spamming yari to beat legendary, nothing else as building the infrastructure for anything else is a waste of time and money
1k gold, 1 building slot and what, 3 turns?, truly, a massive fricking investment you will never recoup
the investment is done for every settlement, you save money on upkeep and power and get the numbers advantage
that is the point of the strat, and it's been a part of the game community's culture for ages
yari are the most known shogun 2 unit cuz of that
this is the first time in my life i see someone trying to argue against it
Hold on, you mean to tellme you need to build dojos in every single town?
You’re supposed to pretend you play the game not decisively prove you are an actual fricking imbecile.
You only build your dojo once in the early game to get a few early units out one later on blacksmiths to reap the stat upgrades.
You don’t spam samurai, if you couldn’t tell through all the clown makeup you are putting on.
Yari wall is effective yes but if you got a Yari wall against my Yari wall but my Yari wall has 2 samurai supporting it and you don’t your ass is grass.
>builds 1 dojo
>it makes 1 unit every 2 turns (maybe 2 every 2 turns) and said unit takes forever to regain losses
>this is supposed to be competitive with making 1 unit every turn multiplied by the number of settlements you have (or 2 every turn in some places) that recovers fast as frick
You are moronic.
Yeah, it isn’t competitive because it supports the other, no shit.
Clearly your brain has been utterly emancipated from thinking of nothing but 19 unit doomstacks all day, go have some tea and talk with family till you recover
It doesn't support jack shit, moron. It's wholly superfluous. Instead of wasting your money and building slots on shitty "support" units you don't need you could just get more stacks to snowball with. It's easy as frick to blitz the map just by doing this.
Admit it Anon, you just don’t know how to play any other way
holy shit you are mentally ill
you build it in every settlement + the econom building to shit out more yaris every fricking turn
the good units take too long and dont scale like this strat does, you fricking imbecile moronic Black person israelite homosexual
>displays his illiteracy for all to see
We're going to pretend that building slots have no value now?
I’m sorry Anon, I didn’t realize missing out on a singular sake den cost me my entire campaign
Meant to say Yari samurai for the flanker, dammit
I wonder how many times they save scummed doing it. They're going to get a bunch of maps, before they can afford reinforcement spam where they cannot outrun the calvary into the corner. So on one hand a Takeda composition will be looking for a little side flank poking out while the rest of their vets try to break through your formation. I'm to believe these people who needed to have their hand held to beat legendary could micro against a Calvary rush? Nah. It's one thing to talk about it. It's another to pull it off in practice.
you cannot save scum on legendary due to ironman
>he doesn't know
i guess you can kill the process, i believe it
Relax Anon, it makes sense now, all they’re doing is spamming auto resolve and just stacking mass stacks of ashigaru to tip it in their favor even though they don’t know how to actually win unless they can have the enemy moron rush into their prepared impassible terrain chokepoints
>Even worse we have a link to a forum of people not agreeing on this at all.
You mean the forum full of people talking about how this strategy was easier and faster than using samurai?
>No proof
i didn't post it myself, but there is a ton of posts here so you need to scroll up
>but this video that shows 1v1 yari lose
yeah, that isn't the point of the strat
>i didn't post it myself
Opinion discarded
>no argument
surely we will get someone beating the game on legendary as oda without using yari any second now
It's not impossible by any stretch. It's just harder than ashigaru spam.
true, i'm sure someone can do it
it's just really fricking hard compared to spamming yari
how is this even an argument, yari walls are literally the most known thing about shogun 2 and everyone and their mother who ever tried this game knows about them
fricking moronic
>ITT''SS SO OBVIOUS
What a fricking insulting dunning-krueger remark. Anon ran tests showing otherwise and it went even more down hill for the yari myth as the thread went on. Get back in the frick corner kid.
He refused to run the test for controlling yari vs the samurai because he knew he'd win. The """test""" is fricking stupid.
I refused to do it because I knew I would be accused of playing poorly on purpose, and wanted someone else to do it
You can do it right now Anon, note I didn’t dispute the one who did it without images directly after
>accused of playing poorly on purpose
In other words you were losing against AI controlled samurai with double the number of yari?
I didn’t do the test Anon, it’s credibility would be in doubt no matter what result I posted.
There's no credibility to your test to begin with. Anyone who's played this game for more than an hour can tell you that the AI is a moron and it's trivial to win this scenario with basic flanking.
Which is an ai issue, all that is needed to counter a flanking fricking Yari wall is another unit of literally anything standing in reserve to charge or fire into the back, Yari ashigaru remain ashigaru and break like burnt sticks without a great deal of morale support or veterancy
And also, if I did a test it would be for the up veterancied Yari, I do predict I WOULD in fact have a Pyrrhic victory with base morale Yari due to how fast they break unless I went and exploited the hell out of the ai, which was not the point of the test, hence me charging katanas straight into the front of Yari walls when I controlled the samurai
>yari wall with the center and let the samurai charge them
>rear charge the samurai with the remaining yari
>win
There's no exploit here. It's basic hammer and anvil.
Yeah it’s no exploit, but a single unit of Bow ashigaru counters it, it’s not o the yari’s credit that the ai often lacks the presence of mind for this, your Yari are literally spreading their cheeks for a volley or charge to rout them
Do note there is a reason I pointed out it was an IDEALIZED test
Hell, you don’t even need the bows, just keep 1-2 units of samurai in reserve while the others slug it out and the Yari are done for, in no TW does the ai understand this and that is the failing here, it is utterly insipid as I have previously stated to paint this as some kind of blemish in shogun’s design
As a note, I recall discarding an earlier first version of a test because I did exactly this, I waited for the ai Yari to flank my samurai, showi by their asses to me and then flanked them in turn, sweeping them up, they stood no chance
The number difference is big enough that yari can just commit a unit to chasing the bowmen around. Or they can just tank it because ammo isn't infinite.
It's funny how you gave up on samurai being better than ashigaru.
You shouldn’t put words in people’s mouths Anon, when I told you that you could do the Yari side of the test the invitation was genuine.
It was never in doubt that a smart usage of a number of units in concert could overcome odds, but the point was that the Yari are not omnipotent and the samurai can easily win against their weight in Yari in a vacuum
Before I get off shift, I want to let you know that your samegayging would be less obvious if you used proper capitalization and a different IP so the post counter would go up. I respect the commitment however. Keep up the good work!
meds
the point isn't how strong yari are in battle, it's how cost effective they are on legendary
Thread doesn't touch upon one important unaddressed issue. Why is there no kisho ninja fix in the workshop for FOTS? I tried my hand at editing FOTS unit tables a couple different ways but it doesn't translate
>this strategy doesn't work
>ok this strategy works but there are better strategies
>ok it may be the best strategy but it's too easy
You are done.
I have never changed my claim Anon, in a situation that assumes competent play from both sides a monotype Yari wall is tissue paper, in campaign it’s inefficient outside of early game and patently brainless.
That I have to turn to face you while you run marathons with that goalpost on your lard ass doesn’t mean I’ve had to make one step back
>in campaign it’s inefficient outside of early game
Only if you're the kind of lobotomite that can't beat the AI while outnumbering it 4 to 1.
>Won’t do the test himself
It feels good to be king
If you are so sure, then you would have done the test I asked if you instead of dancing around it and being confused why acting like a chimp and swinging wildly from baseless arguments isn’t convincing
Welcome to the thread anon, you have Chosen ,or have been chosen TO GET FRICKED IN THE ASS.
This was performed on the crossroads map, no weather by sending the ashigaru in lines to the center to contest the samurai on relatively flat terrain, when engaged in yari wall neighboring free yai ashigaru units were redirected to assist by assuming yari wall formation on the flanks and pushing in.
It could ahve gone better, the units that were unassisted or could not assume yari wall because they got clipped by the samurai and disabled the button while I had a lapse of attention got thoroughly beaten, had I not been able to redirect freed up yari units to assist I would have surely lost
Oh buts whats this, a clear, decisive, crushing victory for the yari, surely this proves the supremacy of the yari wall
The battle in question:
Sitting my ass in the corner watching the katanas freak out in their ai because they knew with me parking my ass on the corner hills across a river there were literally no good fights to be taken
And even then when all was said and done, one unit still got half casualties because they were on slightly flatter ground against an ai who fully well knowing there was no way to get an advantageous engagement, failed to charge well
I guess if this is your idea of "META" I'd have to concede the ease of use point, but I'm going to be laughing the whole way if you are going to pat your own asses over this
I guess you really will declare victory because exploiting the ai's stupidity plus game limitations on the map gives you a literally brainless victory where you don't have to lift a finger, but to each their own
not him but that is the point
that is what i meant by game difficulty going too far the enjoyment is ruined
people start exploiting the game, not enjoying it
Personally, I would think its less to do with difficulty and more an overriding instinct to optimize the game till it becomes trivial, in a good or bad way, no doubt people play like this before ever touching Legendary.
But yes, I can see the point
Or should I say
>My Yari are invincible!
>My Yari may be beaten by samurai but they’re far better for the cost!
>I can still win with only Yari, let me just pull up this thread from google!
>Okay buh but uhhh, my Yari don’t need a dojo!
>But even with dojos you can’t spam stacks of only samurai!
>>My Yari are invincible!
I'm still very firmly here. There is straight up no better strategy for the campaign than ashigaru spam. Meanwhile you resorted to babbling about how it's unskillful and boring to win that way because it does in fact trivialize the entire game.
Wrong reply
Look at this amazing strategy
I heard they replaced the gun sounds in Fall of the Samurai with ones from Napoleon in the recent update, which are wrong for the weapons in question. Is this true?
i don't think CA executed the WHFB aesthetic very well tbh
Are people still afraid of legendary? You can run 10-12 unit armies with some katana, horse and yari and you'll be fine.
>reading comprehension
yeah i read the unit cards unlike you muh yari wall redditors
>
>2023
>hammertrannies still can't play shogun 2 without spamming 19 of the same unit because they're too moronic to just move their army to a better offensive position
It do be like that. Wish i could go back and play this game again for the first time
Practice Shinto-animeism
Invoke and spread good thoughts/spirits
Also try psychedelics
Cure the soul of Ganker like it is a total war game.
Empower the good souls. Feed the good souls.
The best has only just begun
OwU
Kino is spear wall vs spear wall, head to head campaigns
With lots of muskets on both sides embedded in the spear walls.
then go back and play the games that had that, why do we need the same game re-released 50 times?
i can understand medieval 2 needing a third game, and rome getting rome 2 as those are painfully outdated but shogun 2 empire 2 and napoleon are not that old
No female generals.
quit watching e-celebs
I just like the gunpowder warfare in FOTS
Sengoku jidai
VIVE la France
Utopia forever
Ta gueule l'autiste
bump
I'm peeved, I've lost two campaigns in one day. First my Mori campaign crashed, and now the save file won't load. Then I start a Date campaign, only to have my monk and army stuck on each other. I can't move them, I can't delete my monk, and even if I wanted to delete the army I can't kill my own Daimyo.
I wonder if this is the update's fault, because all it took was for my monk to demoralize an enemy army, then have my army attack. Because they were going at the same target from the same direction, they stop in exactly the same location. That should happen all the time! Not sure when I'd get back to Shogun 2 if this is a continual problem.
>he immediately updated instead of waiting to see the comments on the update
Very gay not going to lie
I'm not even surprised, Modern CA has the reverse midas touch
I never played a TW, but will start from the first Shogun TW I got ages ago for free on steam,
Which other titles are considered good?
Beside Napoleon, I don't mind the various settings
historical? rome 1 and 2, medieval 2, shogun 2 and finally atilla
if you don't care about historical accuracy and want the best game then go for warhammer 3 total war, as that is the most "finished" in the series as a lot of total war games feel abandoned/unfinished sadly
Atilla is the most overrated game, it has all of the same problems Rome 2 has in battles, it’s just a glorified brown and grey Rome 2 dlc
GOD FRICKING DAMN IT FRICKING STEAM AUTOMATICALLY UPDATED SHOGUN 2 FRICK
only choice i have left is to pirate
why, it has a bricking patch of sort?
They say it's a performance update but it's not really. The real reason they updated the old games is to remove chat from MP. They say it's because it was "antiquated" anyway but people are saying it's some sort of regulatory compliance thing. Apparently in UK you are not allowed to have unmoderated chat because children might see naughty words and it's not worth it to pay jannies and/or try to put in some automated system into older games hardly anyone ever played MP anyway.
Why people are seething about it is that it broke the mod launcher and issues with mod compatibility in general and nobody is going to update those now.
>They say it's a performance update but it's not really. The real reason they updated the old games is to remove chat from MP.
It's both. Shogun 2 did need an update to get it to run properly on recent CPUs.
They just put the Mod Manager back
Not one mention of Empire, or even Napoleon in this thread.
I gave Shogun a chance, but every time it just makes me wanna play Medieval 2 instead. Every faction uses the same units, the research system feels contrived and siege battles are pathetic. Though I guess the last part is historically accurate.
I would love to see a mod for this or any total war where everything except upkeep had the price jacked up by about 10x.
As it stands, having a soldier in garrison for a couple of turns costs the same as mustering it. Or to put it a different way, killing enemy armies doesn't actually put them behind economically, because you've just reduced their upkeep enough for them to afford to replace it.
It's less of an issue in Shogun 2 because you the provinces are small enough that you can push a victory forward, but in games with bigger maps, the whack-a-mole armies is a real issue.
>having a soldier in garrison for a couple of turns costs the same as mustering it
That's actually historical accurate.
Ah yes the famously historically accurate total war franchise.
When a general lost decisively in one battle, they generally had a pretty tricky time recruiting for round 2 as people tried to leave the sinking ship, and that's just not represented in the mechanics at all.
Here is fix for the game when CA fricked up there new patch.
>https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2980081898