Wizard is basically a god late game, plus theres trip/disarm spam fighters/barbs attacking 3-6 times in one turn for massive damage. Its pretty easy to break the game honestly you don't need to try too hard
If your only planning to do 1-2 playthroughs in an RPG then there is no reason to not just pick a build that lets you have high charisma so you can take all the speech checks and talk your way to all the "interesting outcomes" since 90% of the time passing a check leads to a good outcome.
Also you play as the leader/hero in 99% of RPG's so it only makes sense for your character to start charismatic or become charismatic.
>Warlock
You have to be charming or interesting enough to convince whatever it is to make a pact with you >Sorcerer
Your abilities come from within you. You're very confident because of this, you didn't have to bury your nose in books to learn shit like those nerds called Wizards. More time to socialize too
the better question is why is charisma the main stat for warlock and sorcerer
Stolen from /tg/:
For a Warlock, it's important to win over your patron. You need to be at least somewhat charismatic to get the patron to go "ugh, fine, have some magic spells." If you're not charismatic you're not getting jack.
If you're a sorcerer your magic is inherited. You don't study for it, you don't need a patron, you don't have to learn music (or whatever else bards do), or build up a good relationship with a god. It's just in your bloodline, you're a trustfund shithead. You need to be charismatic or all the other magic users will kill you in your sleep you absolute spoiled brat motherfricker.
>Warlock
You have to be charming or interesting enough to convince whatever it is to make a pact with you >Sorcerer
Your abilities come from within you. You're very confident because of this, you didn't have to bury your nose in books to learn shit like those nerds called Wizards. More time to socialize too
[...]
Stolen from /tg/:
For a Warlock, it's important to win over your patron. You need to be at least somewhat charismatic to get the patron to go "ugh, fine, have some magic spells." If you're not charismatic you're not getting jack.
If you're a sorcerer your magic is inherited. You don't study for it, you don't need a patron, you don't have to learn music (or whatever else bards do), or build up a good relationship with a god. It's just in your bloodline, you're a trustfund shithead. You need to be charismatic or all the other magic users will kill you in your sleep you absolute spoiled brat motherfricker.
You've gotten bad answers IMO
The simple answer is that charisma is an amalgamation of different aspects that sum up to be your literal force of personality
It's physical beauty, charm, social prowess, etiquette, authority and so on wrapped up all in one
When your magic wellspring is literally based upon your own internal ego, you can see how charisma would be a battery
>it is impossible to frick up your build in 5e. Coincidentally, it's also impossible to have fun making a build in 5e because you have jack all to play with as everything is now obvious, streamlined and fun-sized. I enjoy theorycrafting and there's none to do here >5e tried to fix the number endlessly go up issue of 3.5, which it somewhat succeeded at. Unfortunately, it is also stubbornly insistent on using the signature garbage d20 as its main die, which with the smaller modifiers all around leads to every skill roll being a swingy crapshot >attributes are all sorts of broken. DEX is the god stat, while INT is an utterly obvious dump stat on everything that isn't a wizard or artificer. This leads to 5e being the dumbfrick edition with parties of mongoloids prancing around and acting way smarter than they numerically should - otherwise the DM would have approximately three people Grugplaying every campaign >you can't die. No, really. You actually have to try. It cheapens the whole experience. >concentration is a load of anti-fun horseshit and it's everywhere. Scry-and-die *teleports behind you with a trillion buffs* was all sorts of bullshit, but having one buff/debuff running isn't great either. It makes you just pick the best all around spell and stick with it, everything else might as well not exist. Boring as shit. >base itemization is ass. Fixable with DM creativity and nudging mob stats up to compensate, but why the should he?
As someone new to DnD rulesets, concentration is bullshit. It means my Shadowheart will never use a concentration spell except for Bless unless she loses concentration
Even then, if 2 or more party members are still within range, it's time to Bless up again
You basically start with a good fighter, mage, and cleric so charisma-based PC just makes practical sense. Doesn't hurt that paladin, warlock, and sorcerer are top-tier in 5e. Bard is too, but less people get excited about playing as a bard.
I'm gonna play coop and want to pick barbarian or rogue. I'm pretty good at tactics games, does anyone think I'm gonna be bored with such such classes due to lack of complexity? I'm looking at either Wild Magic or Berserker barb, not sure which one would entertain me the longest
Thief gets an extra bonus action at level 3 which is really nice, if you take it all the way to 9 you also get a free invisibility each short rest. It's not flashy but it's pretty strong if a little boring and makes a really good dip for multiclassing.
Arcane trickster has access to level 1 and 2 spells so you can abuse things like fog and darkness, or pick up some CC spells like hold person or sleep to guarantee critical hits on your sneak attacks for big damage. Don't be tempted to take damage spells other than maybe arcane missiles, as a rogue you can do just fine with crossbows as a ranged option without worrying about the spell slots.
the item's version of the spell shows up in the common section of your hotbars instead of the spell section, and wont consume spell slots on use. So you can wear the amulet of misty step and boots with misty step and get 2 free casts of it per short rest without having to use your actual spell slots on it
I abandoned my Paladin of Vengeance playthrough. Didn’t let Arabella’s soi parents kill Mommy Kagha, and got a visit from the Oathbreaker, which I thought was bullshit
Paladins in 5e aren't alignment restricted. They're bound to "Oaths". Alignment in 5e is really just a line at the top of your character sheet. It has almost no mechanical play.
Everyone sleeps on Cleric because the name is not evocative of what the class is actually capable of. People's preconceptions today are informed by video games like WoW and nobody at the table wants to be stuck being the group healer even if Clerics don't really do that in 5e.
If we assume CHA/INT/WIS are basically interchangeable in combat, then the main differences everyone is considering is how they work during character interactions/dialogue.
Wisdom and intelligence aren't actually useful mental skills in those scenarios, since you could go and look everything about the setting up on a wiki. Also, the writers *want* to show off the world to you by having your character learn about the setting, so they will rarely gate something important behind those types of checks.
The only counterexample of this I can think of is the Pale in Disco Elysium. I think it's possible to get to the end of the game without learning anything about that.
Most people want to roll with CHA so they can be the party face and do all the dialogue checks with their main character, but this game actually does a good job of including checks for all the stats in dialogue so it isn't really necessary to stick with CHA for that. If anything you'd be better off just rolling Rogue or Bard if that's your goal since they can get proficiency/expertise in multiple skills and try to cover all your skill bases.
It's a shame that cleric is so low. I imagine it's due to Shadowheart existing and that people misunderstand the role of Cleric entirely. People really underestimate what you can do as cleric.
A Light Cleric for example is incredible for people that know -- and clerics are one of the very few classes in 5e that actually feel incredible to play while having good RP depth.
Pathfinder 2E is way fricking better by the way. Convince your friends and family to play it
Easily pass dialogue checks, useful as a main character.
What's with the stupid questions that don't deserve their own thread?
whats the most broken class combination people have discovered that trivializes most content
Wizard is basically a god late game, plus theres trip/disarm spam fighters/barbs attacking 3-6 times in one turn for massive damage. Its pretty easy to break the game honestly you don't need to try too hard
tavern brawler strength monk
dual hand crossbows
If your only planning to do 1-2 playthroughs in an RPG then there is no reason to not just pick a build that lets you have high charisma so you can take all the speech checks and talk your way to all the "interesting outcomes" since 90% of the time passing a check leads to a good outcome.
Also you play as the leader/hero in 99% of RPG's so it only makes sense for your character to start charismatic or become charismatic.
>why are charisma based classes popular in a game where every optimal outcome is gated behind a persuasion check
>get into conversation
>roll and win
the better question is why is charisma the main stat for warlock and sorcerer
>Warlock
You have to be charming or interesting enough to convince whatever it is to make a pact with you
>Sorcerer
Your abilities come from within you. You're very confident because of this, you didn't have to bury your nose in books to learn shit like those nerds called Wizards. More time to socialize too
Still doesn't make any sense.
Stolen from /tg/:
For a Warlock, it's important to win over your patron. You need to be at least somewhat charismatic to get the patron to go "ugh, fine, have some magic spells." If you're not charismatic you're not getting jack.
If you're a sorcerer your magic is inherited. You don't study for it, you don't need a patron, you don't have to learn music (or whatever else bards do), or build up a good relationship with a god. It's just in your bloodline, you're a trustfund shithead. You need to be charismatic or all the other magic users will kill you in your sleep you absolute spoiled brat motherfricker.
I guess that makes sense when it comes to Fiends and Fey, but it still doesn't really make sense if your patron is a Great Old One.
>Your abilities come from within you. You're very confident because of this
coincidentally fits with my character lol
You've gotten bad answers IMO
The simple answer is that charisma is an amalgamation of different aspects that sum up to be your literal force of personality
It's physical beauty, charm, social prowess, etiquette, authority and so on wrapped up all in one
When your magic wellspring is literally based upon your own internal ego, you can see how charisma would be a battery
in a game where intelligence is not as important for dialogue options charisma is all that is left
Int is literally *the* dump stat for everyone except mages. Very sad.
Welcome to 5e, the dumbfrick edition. In all sorts of ways.
what is your issues with it?
>it is impossible to frick up your build in 5e. Coincidentally, it's also impossible to have fun making a build in 5e because you have jack all to play with as everything is now obvious, streamlined and fun-sized. I enjoy theorycrafting and there's none to do here
>5e tried to fix the number endlessly go up issue of 3.5, which it somewhat succeeded at. Unfortunately, it is also stubbornly insistent on using the signature garbage d20 as its main die, which with the smaller modifiers all around leads to every skill roll being a swingy crapshot
>attributes are all sorts of broken. DEX is the god stat, while INT is an utterly obvious dump stat on everything that isn't a wizard or artificer. This leads to 5e being the dumbfrick edition with parties of mongoloids prancing around and acting way smarter than they numerically should - otherwise the DM would have approximately three people Grugplaying every campaign
>you can't die. No, really. You actually have to try. It cheapens the whole experience.
>concentration is a load of anti-fun horseshit and it's everywhere. Scry-and-die *teleports behind you with a trillion buffs* was all sorts of bullshit, but having one buff/debuff running isn't great either. It makes you just pick the best all around spell and stick with it, everything else might as well not exist. Boring as shit.
>base itemization is ass. Fixable with DM creativity and nudging mob stats up to compensate, but why the should he?
As someone new to DnD rulesets, concentration is bullshit. It means my Shadowheart will never use a concentration spell except for Bless unless she loses concentration
Even then, if 2 or more party members are still within range, it's time to Bless up again
The rules aren't granular enough that it works as a miniatures game.
>why are charisma based classes popular in a game where you're going to be the face of your party
You basically start with a good fighter, mage, and cleric so charisma-based PC just makes practical sense. Doesn't hurt that paladin, warlock, and sorcerer are top-tier in 5e. Bard is too, but less people get excited about playing as a bard.
>Sorcerer and warlock
>Top tier in 5e
Lmao. Both are classes you multiclass into steal features and then abandon. Pretty shit on their own
I'm gonna play coop and want to pick barbarian or rogue. I'm pretty good at tactics games, does anyone think I'm gonna be bored with such such classes due to lack of complexity? I'm looking at either Wild Magic or Berserker barb, not sure which one would entertain me the longest
If not barbarian I'm also considering Arcane Trickster. In terms of fun, do people prefer Thief or Trickster?
Thief gets an extra bonus action at level 3 which is really nice, if you take it all the way to 9 you also get a free invisibility each short rest. It's not flashy but it's pretty strong if a little boring and makes a really good dip for multiclassing.
Arcane trickster has access to level 1 and 2 spells so you can abuse things like fog and darkness, or pick up some CC spells like hold person or sleep to guarantee critical hits on your sneak attacks for big damage. Don't be tempted to take damage spells other than maybe arcane missiles, as a rogue you can do just fine with crossbows as a ranged option without worrying about the spell slots.
I'm curious, what's the difference between having misty step on your gear and a Trickster having misty step?
the item version won't use a spell slot
the item's version of the spell shows up in the common section of your hotbars instead of the spell section, and wont consume spell slots on use. So you can wear the amulet of misty step and boots with misty step and get 2 free casts of it per short rest without having to use your actual spell slots on it
I picked paladin because I was interested that oathbreaker is playable. I want to try and get an Arthas build as best I can.
>I have never played an RPG please rape my face
OP is a homosexual Black person and needs to go back.
The kind of people who play these games lack charisma in real life so have to make up for it somehow.
I'm ashamed of myself for rolling paladin now. Frick I'm a normie and a filthy casual.
Does Paladin lock you to acting in a lawful good way?
I abandoned my Paladin of Vengeance playthrough. Didn’t let Arabella’s soi parents kill Mommy Kagha, and got a visit from the Oathbreaker, which I thought was bullshit
Based. Paladin wouldve suited the expy character I created (I was lacking inspiration) but I didnt want to be too good so I went cleric.
Paladins in 5e aren't alignment restricted. They're bound to "Oaths". Alignment in 5e is really just a line at the top of your character sheet. It has almost no mechanical play.
I don't approve of that absolutely gigantic disparity between the Paladin class and the Cleric class.
It doesn't help that Shadowheart is the first and easiest character to recruit after the prologue, and is best girl.
Everyone sleeps on Cleric because the name is not evocative of what the class is actually capable of. People's preconceptions today are informed by video games like WoW and nobody at the table wants to be stuck being the group healer even if Clerics don't really do that in 5e.
Anon, Cleric is low because
>best girl who also has best romance and is a cute dork is Cleric, so she's always in the party
if you rolled a caster paladin you're dumb
made shadow a paladin, i need a bless machine that can still deal some amount of damage
cleric shits out damage with guardian spirits, upcast that shit and you're just a walking blender
i don't like relying on spells too much because i don't like having to rest
If we assume CHA/INT/WIS are basically interchangeable in combat, then the main differences everyone is considering is how they work during character interactions/dialogue.
Wisdom and intelligence aren't actually useful mental skills in those scenarios, since you could go and look everything about the setting up on a wiki. Also, the writers *want* to show off the world to you by having your character learn about the setting, so they will rarely gate something important behind those types of checks.
The only counterexample of this I can think of is the Pale in Disco Elysium. I think it's possible to get to the end of the game without learning anything about that.
they're really fricking good and excel in both combat and non-combat social situations
not hard to understand
If I'm a coop player in a friend's world, can I frick the companions? This is very important information
Most people want to roll with CHA so they can be the party face and do all the dialogue checks with their main character, but this game actually does a good job of including checks for all the stats in dialogue so it isn't really necessary to stick with CHA for that. If anything you'd be better off just rolling Rogue or Bard if that's your goal since they can get proficiency/expertise in multiple skills and try to cover all your skill bases.
just tell me which is the most fun to play they're all so fricking dull can't believe i fell for this meme game
do you like hitting things with physical objects or hitting things with magic spells?
5e is a pretty dull game. What a shame because larian would've made a killer adnd/3.5 game.
Because the game is an RNG talking simulator. I genuinely don't understand all the hype around this game.
>bard not at the bottom
The main character is usually synonymous with being the party face, it makes no sense having a STRtard or INTcel being the group leader.
Except in this game, because barbarians get advantage on fricking everything.
Human fighterbros...what happened?
most normies see Paladins as Fighters but better
made a fighter, he kills everything with ease
fighterbros won
>Extra proficiencies from human only matter if you're playing a caster
>Game gives you a fighter companion in the first 5 minutes of the game
It was over before it started.
2 fighters is just right
Warlocks are great, how come they're not in the Pathfinder games?
I went for High Elven Ranger and still pass most checks without effort. Going full CHA must be busted as frick.
It's a shame that cleric is so low. I imagine it's due to Shadowheart existing and that people misunderstand the role of Cleric entirely. People really underestimate what you can do as cleric.
A Light Cleric for example is incredible for people that know -- and clerics are one of the very few classes in 5e that actually feel incredible to play while having good RP depth.
Pathfinder 2E is way fricking better by the way. Convince your friends and family to play it