When was the last time a 40k game was good?
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When was the last time a 40k game was good?
When was the last time a 40k game was good?
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mechanicus is good
>mechanicus is good
>my only rebuke to something i dont agree with is to quote the guy
you can do better than that
I like strategy games, like the ost, and like 40k
Aye
Yes you shitter
Admech are the most evil human faction in 40k
not their fault
the void dragon made them do it
>Dude I'm gonna set up a 26,000 year plan to make sure humanity still has technology after the Age of Strife by sowing the seeds of a fake technology-worshiping religion that will exist 23,000 years from now
>No, I won't use these unlimited keikaku works powers to just prevent the age of strife, moron, because... because I just can't, ok??? It has to be this way!
GW are hacks
Because the age of strife needed to happen. The technology needed to be lost because unchecked human technological advancement just got them men of iron.
All the tech that is needed to fulfill the emperor's plan is out there, and the Mechanicus are the stewards of that and making sure that there aren't too many advancements that lead to more opportunities to accidentally the whole human race.
>both Necron and Eldar were able to achieve tech equivalent to or better than DAoT humanity without accidentally themselves-ing
Sounds like E and the Mechanicum should've tried harder.
>No dude you don't get it I can't possibly shepard human technological advancement so that men of iron are never made in the first place, I have to wait until the men of iron have already ruined everything to assume direct control and stop them from being made a second time!
GW are HACKS
Bro actually fricking look at what they have done in 10,000 years without the emperor.
Do you think that giving them MORE destructive powerful would make things better?
God Emperor of mankind is not just a little bit cribbed from God Emperor of Dune. Leto II's whole thing wasn't DURR I WANT TO RULE THE HUMAN RACE FOREVER! Instead it was about the golden path, arranging a scenario in this case where peace and tranquility was enforced with an iron boot until the human species as a whole evolved several mechanisms to kill a god and lynch any person ever promising Peace and Stability at the cost of stagnation and their Liberty, because the end game was creating a species that was able to spread across the universe and be too numerous to ever be under threat of being under the control of one authority ever again that could bring them into the same death spiral the spice and prescience had put them in.
I don't think that's the same goal as the emperor of mankind, but the age of strife, and the following dark age, are all part of a bigger plan.
The emperor was also among other things a scientific genius who had lived through those time periods. That technology being lost is intentional.
The Mechanicus believe that they will find what they need when they need it, and fricking around with science and invention is borderline heretical.
This is also a setting where chaos can corrupt technology, and the more advanced, the more susceptible it is.
but cawl invented new space marines, weapons, and armor
if he can do it then the rest of the mechanicus can
>if he can do it then the rest of the mechanicus can
lol no, Cawl is second in command of the entire Mechanicum
so the guy actually in command should have invented primaris marines 9000 years ago
Oud Oudia Raskian doesn't give a frick about the Imperium, the man turned himself into a giant building
should have turned himself into a factory to pump out some new technology
Dumbass also smuggled in a Haemonculus, so I wouldn't trust anyone that stupid.
Cawl is pretty heretical.
He isn't the Fabricator General of Mars, the pope of the Adeptus, but he doesn't want to be either since that is a political role.
He has more enemies than allies in the mechanicus and the empire, but he's effective and always the smartest man in the room.
He also personally knew the emperor (kind of, its complicated). It's better to have him around and on your side if you can't have him dead.
Didn't he make an AI version of himself that lives on girlyman's flagship?
https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/The_Cawl_Inferior
>installs a borderline heretical AI duplicate of yourself on girlman's ship in case he ever needs to ask cawl something so he doesn't have to bother him
>It constantly sends requests to Girlyman to make Cawl the Fabricator General of Mars
>He doesn't even want the job, he just thinks its funny
>Is it an AI or is it a computer so smart it cant be distinguished from an AI
its Schrodingers Cawl
>No dude you don't get it, I can't possibly start course correcting human culture and technological evolution back in the 13th century while the species is confined to one planet and still playing with sharpened sticks, I have to wait until the 290th century to do the exact same thing only now with trying to tard wrangle the ruins of a massive galactic civilization that's fricking around with weapons of unspeakable power they've forgotten how to respect!
H A C K S
A
C
K
S
I'm playing it at the moment and yes, it's good. Extremely kino sound design.
I want to know why this game runs like shit on my computer.
get better hardware and update drivers
inb4 high end gaming pc
>inb4 high end gaming pc
Nah, borderline toaster, but its not like its a high demand game and I make all the minimal specs.
I need to do some more troubleshooting but I'm fricking lazy and annoyed.
Best sound design I've experienced lately.
Mediocre game - quickly become OP without trying.
Mechanicus is fun until your priests become strong enough. Last 40% of game felt like a chore because my priests were steamrolling everything, even bosses.
True, but the difficulty isn't balanced at all.
Late game you're firing a solar atomizer and heavy phosphor blaster killing everything in one turn. Meanwhile most of the enemies are still just basic necrons that only move and shoot once.
It's good, but I wish the game had an option to speed up animations and camera movements. I had to use cheat engine to 2x speedhack, so I could stomach the end game slog.
Of what I read admechs are probably the strongest imperial faction in form function and appliction
Why are they ignored ?
Because Space Marines sell more
because they get all the advertising
because they sell the most
so they get the most advertising
>Why are they ignored ?
GW likes the Blueberry boys and the Mechs engage in galactic wide slavery to make skitarrii
>Why are they ignored ?
define ignored
chaos gate daemon hunters was good, so last month.
When was the first?
Dawn of War
Dawn of War 2
Space Marine
Mechanicus
"last time" implies that it actually happened once before.
Space Marine, Dawn of War 1, 2 and expansions and Inquisitor, you Ganker contrarian moron who must shit on anything if someone likes it.
>Space Marine
that was one of the most dull, boring games I ever wasted time on
moron, shitter or literally played it wrong.
>Space Marine
How has this been retconned into being 'good'? It was widely regarded as being shit at the time.
>It was widely regarded as being shit at the time.
Only by gears and cod bros who threw a hissyfit that they had to play aggressive all the time and couldn't hide behind crates. Brainlets with frosted tips who queued up to buy eminem album midnight releases and believed themselves to be amazing snipers irl because of their kd ratios in game. Closeted homosexuals and pedos of the highest order. Fave films are the Bay Transformers.
Space marine was pretty forgettable and repetitive. However dawn of war is one of my favorite games of all time
>Inquisitor
>Good
>Space Marine, Dawn of War 1, 2 and expansions and Inquisitor
I had a lot of fun with these so I agree that they're good, at least for me.
True, Necromunda needed a bit more EYE, shame they didn't decide to keep more of what they got right.
Also, I fricking loved Vermintide, all the violence feels real good and it's fun in general.
>I'm hopeful about darktide, but it's most likely going to just be a reskin of vermintide
For me, only thing Vermintide was missing is "40 000", so I'm expecting a lot of fun from Darktide.
Inquisitor's super shitty sound design is unforgivable.
Meh, least of the games problems.
It's not bad, but it gets pretty samey really fast.
Ahem.
It's good, great in parts, but could've done with just a bit more design thought and a lot more variety. It's like X-Com 2012 quality. Which means it's not as flexible and long term engaging as X-Com 2, but also not as unfocusedly moronic as X-Com 2. If they do an expansion with more chaos variety in units, abilities and tactics, and maybe introduce vehicles and dreadknights in some capacity, maybe have Exorcists, Red Hunters and SoB or other inquisition support, it'll be fantastic.
>Wait, Support Fire can't just be a free shot with a damage bonus and no distance penalty learnable by all my guys except the healer, right? That would be crazy
>Oh
And then I beat Chaos Gate.
I hear the past couple XCOM clones, Mechanicus and the Grey Knights one, are pretty good.
Loregays, explain something stupid to me: given that Yvraine and Cawl revived Girlyman from the brink of death, why can't they just do the same for the Emperor? The Golden Throne is failing and the High Lords are apparently desperate enough to try sneaking deldar haemonculuses into the throne room to fix it. Why not just ask Roboute's big titty space goth gf to do it instead of those lunatics?
isn't he perpetual? so they just have to kill him and he'll be back. but if he's a god in the warp what happens? would there be a warp emperor and a real emperor?
If the emperor dies then it would take a bit for him to come back
During this time that would give daemons to come into the throne room in droves and the Astronomican would go out and make every ship going and still in the warp to get lost
The risk is too great even if it will bring him back
Don't think it was just a case of Yvraine casting revive and cure 4. Robby was in stasis having suffered a mortal wound. The armor was needed in addition to Yvraine to restore and sustain him.
Biggy was far more grievously wounded, is required in situ to control the astronomican, his physical form is all but decayed to dust and bones with his soul bound to it, and that soul is partially aoptheosised to the point where he's basically becoming a warp entity on par with the chaos gods. He will ascend to full "godhood" before his physical body could be restored, and probably create an avatar physical form as a resurrection with part of his soul for 41K. So there will be the father (the corpse on the throne), the son (the resurrected goldboy) and the holy spirit (the warp entity). Dawkins btfo.
More like Emperor himself btfo
What cruel irony that he of all people would become a god.
It took Eldar god powers and advanced science just to do it and right now they don't have enough time get the empower off is throne to revive him
Not only that but the Eldar don't trust the Emperor the same way they do Girlyman
>It took Eldar god powers and advanced science just to do it and right now they don't have enough time get the empower off is throne to revive him
I mean they're basically sitting on their asses until the clowns figure out a way to steal the last mcguffin from Slaanesh. If the morons of Commoragh are willing to entertain this deal then I don't see why the craftworld eldar wouldn't. If for no other reason than Emps resurrecting = Slaanesh getting btfo, and their current plan for btfoing Slaanesh involves their entire species committing sudoku.
Emps being needed in-situ to power the Astronomicon isn't as big a risk as you might think because the Golden Throne is malfunctioning. If the revival doesn't work, Emps dies and the Imperium is dead. But that's what happens anyways if they don't try at all. So you might as well go for it.
>Emps resurrecting = Slaanesh getting btfo
That's debatable
Emps fighting a chaos god even with his custodians would be a long and difficult task
And even then it would just stave off Slaanesh for a bit
>If the revival doesn't work, Emps dies and the Imperium is dead. But that's what happens anyways if they don't try at all. So you might as well go for it.
Terminus Decree. GKs have Janus in stasis under Titan, he has a fragment of uncorrupted Magnus souls and can sit the throne.
Ok so revive that guy, have him plant his cheeks on the chair, THEN see if reviving the Emperor works. All I'm saying is that, given that the Imperium basically has no other choice but to try this out, why not try it?
First, Emps ailment is a lot more different than girlyman. Roubutte was put on a 10 millenia coma because he got shanked by Fulgrim using a sword with superAIDS, and since nobody knew what the frick to do, they putted him in stasis.
Meabwhike Emps had part of his whole soul broken, metaphysically and metaphorically. Like suddendly loosing most of your enthropy and energy to do basically anything with your own body.
You could cure superAIDS with magic and science BS, but good luck trying to fix something you lack on the first place.
In Cawls case, the whole mechanicus has been trying to figure out what the frick to do without breaking everything appart, which is difficult, especially since emps throne is almost a mix of human tech and xeno tech. In Yvarines case, im not exactly sure, but might be something similar to fricking Josuke from JJBA: you can cure and morph other people, but once the soul its out of the body its not going back inside. As far as i remember, every single time Yvrine has healed someone it was still retaining its soul one way or another, even Ahrimans walking Tin Cans of dust.
Emps is literally a corpse with just part of his soul on it, so reviving him in his current state would be practically pointless, and im not even sure that in his state the perpetual powers might kick in if he kicks the bucket. And if he does, that means Terra gets send to the Shadow realm.
Probably the only ones who might have any idea of how the Throne works are either Emps himself, alien sick fricks, or Fabulus Bile the science guy, however if Emps could but haven't said anything its most likely he trusts no one with that info, that he has forgot about, or something else. And Bile is defiently not going to help at all, and the idea of how it might work might be to crude and incomplete.
So the remainig choice its the sick fricks.
And so far, it seems that they either don't even know what the frick they are doing or they don't do anything.
>alien sick fricks
do you mean the Drukhari or the Necrons?
Horus broke the Emperor's body, not his soul.
Ecclesiachal propaganda.
You see, what was actually happened was Sanguinus banged his head on a beam on the Vengeful Spirit's ceiling when he was flapping about, really fricking hard, he fell onto the marble floor really bad, twisted his neck, pissed himself and suffered death soon after like a man decked outside a Glaswegian pup who cracks his head on the curb, Horus said "frick me" and spat out the banana he was eating. Big E runs in looking for the toilet. Horus stands up to say "it wasn't me" about Sanguinius. Horus slips on Sang's piss puddle at the top of the stairs, Big E slips on the banana Horus spat out, they prat fall towards one another, crack their skulls right on each other, fall backwards awkward and bang their heads on the stone floor. Horus dies from a brain bleed, Big E is rendered parapalegic. Everyone is a bit too embaressed to admit what ended the siege of Terra and invented the narrative about the majestic clash of the two most powerful psyker champions in the universe fighting in the climactic battle of chaos vs order.
I like the theory Sang actually killed Horus, but fell into the black rage and attacked the Emperor, and the Emperor's wounds were sustained defeating Sang.
Trusting Bile with Emp's corpse is a terrible idea, no matter the potential gain.
>why can't they just do the same for the Emperor?
Because GW's leadership changed and the new management saw that the Ynnari were an absolutely fricking awful idea from the start (just like any idea where the Eldar aren't being massacred) and dropped that plot faster than you can say 'Slaanesh is staying'.
>why can't they just do the same for the Emperor?
Because the Big E is warp powered manifestation of human energies
>Because the Big E is warp powered manifestation of human energies
But how can Big E have big dick warp strength if he's so weak that he needs 10k psykers to power the Astronomicon for him?
Because Big Dick Warp Strength isn't unlimited
It's big enough to still let him hold the door of the imperial Webway shut by himself against literally all the combined strength of chaos. They made this shit way too convoluted. Should have never been more than "you need 1k psykers per day to keep the golden Throne alive, which keeps the Emperor alive, who is so strong psychically despite his ruined body that he still projects the Astronomicon from the throne.".
Nice, now to find a Slaaneshi, Tzeentch and Malice Sisters
>Slaaneshi
Miriael Sabathiel is still canon
>tfw no slaaneshi cultist gf to have wild demonic kinky sex with during spacetrips between eldar hunting expeditions
feels bad man
I'm surprised there are no Slaaneshis devoted to exterminating what's left of the Eldar to feed Slaanesh.
Because there's no hurry, if they die their soul gets gobbled up by slaanesh.
Don't they have some kind of soul storage on craftworlds to prevent this from happening? Craftworlds should be extremely high priority targets because of that. Considering that they aren't that large, and group of Imperial design warships that chaosgays employ should be able to overwhelm one assuming they catch it, strange how Slaaneshi warbands that have fleets don't spend their time exclusively doing that.
That's a stopgap. If someone shattered that soulstone they're right back in the fire.
Maybe he doesn't and just wants the psyker juju
>he doesn't need the psykers
>40k is a setting where tech priests have to pray to toaster to get breakfast
>all those psykers die for nothing
>all those psykers die for nothing
Being a sacrifice for the emperor is the best option for a psyker. They're treated extremely well and pampered while they wait for their number to be called.
For everyone else you just get weaponized, persecuted and lynched, or a daemon crawls out of your head.
Being shot in the head is the best option for a psyker. Being fed to the Throne is an agonizing, drawn out process.
People seem to misunderstand the resurrection of Guilliman. It wasn't just a random group of elves using death magic to resurrect him, it was Cawl spending 12000 years developing the armor of fate, Guilliman dying momentarily, the Emperor pushing his influence AND elf death magic all happening at the right time. The Ynnari wouldn't be able to just regenerate the whole Emperor like it was nothing, that's way beyond them. The other problem is that even if he was "resurrected", he wouldn't be the same emperor as he was in 30k and still wouldn't be able to leave the golden throne for a number of different reasons. Guilliman likely doesn't even want the Emperor resurrected after getting mindraped by the warp monstrosity he's become over the last 10k years.
>The Ynnari wouldn't be able to just regenerate the whole Emperor like it was nothing, that's way beyond them.
He could do it himself if it wouldn't frick up everything in the Sol system while he regenerated. He is a perpetual, which is where Vulkan gets it from.
>it was Cawl
You're god damn right.
Clearly this is a job for the boyz in green.
Get Orkimedes/Grotsnik to go fiddle with the golden throne to get it working right proppa, then just go around convincing all the Orks that the emperor has revived and there's going to be a sweet ass fight.
Now, WAAAGH!!! power is often overstated and memed, but in this case the belief will spread so far and wide that the emperor will practically glow green upon revival.
Only issue then would be that the entire collective Ork society would all be united and running to Terra looking for a scrap...
>that time a giant Ork war fleet trashed the Sol system and literally held Terra hostage
>they even sent down a ambassador Ork to "negotiate" with the highlords
orks are fun
and that wasn't even close to their final form
Imagine if they had a real Krork at their head
Anything post-cawl is shit. 40k is dead. Space marine was good. DOW 1 and 2 also.
>Anything post-cawl is shit
5th Ed was already shit.
Was speaking generally. Played 3rd edition myself. Only kept up with the lore after that. The Beast was stupid but I could put up with it. Cawl, primaris, "astra militarum" all bollocks. I see the new logo as a cut off point. Everything after is part of the 40k "franchise" i.e. it's going to shit
Cause that homie is a different breed of fricked
haven't cared about 40K video games since Dawn of war.
New squats are shit
Just be grateful they didn't put out femsquats as well. Because you know these fricks wanted to.
Anon... Top left....
Well frick me I cared so little about squats I didn't look through all the previews. Looks like bottom left has the "I am woman hear me roar" face too. Is microsoft marketing involved?
Just don't use the head?
why are they so "clean"
It looks like Starcraft or something
>why are they so "clean"
Probably because they aren't moronic so they actually maintain their gear instead of waving incense over and praying it keeps working.
More like WHY THEIR GEAR DOESN'T LOOK LIKE BOXY MODIFIED MINING EQUIPMENT?
They did, though, what are you talking about
Frick off. Both these things are great.
>t. cancer
>Black person fatigue
No think you anon, hard pass.
you wanna know the funny thing? change her skin to like ASH grey and her eyes to orange or red and make sure shes like 4ft tall tops and thats a really good Dwarf cosplay.
thats like my dream waifu right there. the only thing I have a problem with is the dress. I feel like Dwarven nobility should still be decked in battle armor not prissy dresses or gowns. Gold fricking armor.
>change her skin to like ASH grey and her eyes to orange or red and make sure shes like 4ft tall tops and thats a really good Dunmer cosplay.
What would be the 40k equivalent of the Ebonheart Pact?
>Pact
Nothing that permanent.
You have seen some temporary alliances. But they're rare.
Necrons and Humans have teamed up a few times in the face of greater threats.
During one of the Wars for Armageddon had the Orcs and Humans fighting on the same side against chaos.
Tau are always pragmatic.
But when one of the main imperial creeds is suffer not a xenos to live, you're not likely to turn your back on them.
dunmer arent shortstack though. I dont think that hairstyle would ever work on anything BUT a dwarf.
the first squad model they revealed was female...
I like them
But wish that they were mixed with the old squats
It's like Star Wars all over again. When I say "Kharadron", you say "Sorry". Kharadron
I'm sorry George, you always knew better
Fricking Chaos Gate motherfricker!
?t=1m57s
Watch that. There's no way to not get ABSOLUTELY FRICKING HYPED from that. Scientifically impossible
tranners are a way for men to fill the female diversity quota so you don't have to play anything designed by an actual woman.
WHAT THE HELL WITH TRANNIES
>adrian CHEATER
>actually cheats his bio from Man to WoMan
LGBTQZXL$R should be helped
Why is it so hard to do the 40K setting justice in vidya form? Is it just GW being incompetent or is there an issue with the setting itself?
The setting itself is poorly written but it's not impossible to make a good game in the setting as it's a great setting to experience
GW are israeli boomer morons sitting on top of a gold mine
Lack of licensing quality control. They should've set up an in house dev studio and strived for triple A production and high metacritics. Instead they licensed out to an overwhelmingly majority of shite devs.
No they shouldn't. AAA would suck for W40k.
Because what fans want and what devs are told fans want are two totally different things. And GW just wants cash but they're moronic and get carried by whales.
Glad 40k is starting to get merch.
Dawn of War, 2004
18 years ago
>Dawn of War, 2004
>18 years ago
stop stop stop stop stop STOP STOP STOP STOP STOP STOP STOP
Battlefleet Gothic: Armada II
I never got the Mechanicus praise, and AdMech are my favorite faction.
Dawn Of War and its expansions
frick the sequel tho
Dow 2 was fricking amazing shut up go play the campaign
Necromunda was ALMOST really fricking good
It had fluid gameplay, an excellent ingame world and decent AI, but Streumon, for whatever reason, decided to strip the game of the RPG mechanics that EYE had and effectively ruin its potential.
I'm hopeful about darktide, but it's most likely going to just be a reskin of vermintide with no PvP mode, which is what carried L4d1/2's replayability and made it a god of the genre.
I'm just surprised Necromunda was almost completely forgotten about with time. Like it was definitely rough, what with how the grapple hook, wall running, and the at-launch execution chaining worked, but otherwise I still genuinely found the game to be completely breasts. Despite that, it barely gets brought up in threads and it seems like people at large had forgotten it.
Maybe it's because it doesn't have the Warhammer name on it or some other nonsense, but it's just strange it had fallen almost completely out of the world
I want an RPG where I can fall to Chaos and have to fight my brothers to survive.
what do you guys think of Boltgun
I want to say I'm surprised they didn't just use GZDoom's engine, but I guess that'd be an issue if they wanted to ship on console, or because GPL might be an issue depending on how much DOOM's actual code is used for the engine
>be admech neophyte
>exploring some random cave in the middle of nowhere
>find a fricking STC of all things
>holy_shit.bin
>radio your superiors and switch it on
>it starts churning out men of iron who all begin immediately loading their guns
What do?
Initiate flee protocol.
Data dump info on the state of the universe so the AI recognises the IoM as the lesser threat, pray to the omnissiah they'll be able to keep churning out units that will keep the hivefleets/waaghs/black crusade preoccupied, accept having the AI take over my mind.
>Beep boop the enemy of my enemy is my other enemy beep boop kill all fleshbags no exceptions
What do?
Men of Iron were corrupted by Chaos. There is no reasoning.
>Men of Iron were corrupted by Chaos.
Source? How do you infect a machine with chaos?
>How do you infect a machine with chaos?
Scrap Code
>Menazoid Epsilon is notable for being the location of a Standard Template Constructor that was primed to produce Men of Iron. This STC was discovered to have been corrupted by the forces of Chaos and destroyed by an Imperial commando team from the Tanith 1st Imperial Guard Regiment.[1f]
https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Menazoid_Epsilon
>tzeentchian bird daemon prince with his rgb warp energies computer hacking a stc to make a literal botnet
>How do you infect a machine with chaos?
Artificial minds without souls are open vessels for demons. Abominations!
So AI has to be kept very simple to be generally safe, but Men of Iron were artificial general intelligences, hence the corruption both in the distant past and in the few cases they've been discovered in 40k outside of maybe UR-025. While simple computers (cogitators) are pretty common in 40k, the advanced cogitators rely on parts of human brains to do the calculations and get around that hazard and the "no AI" law.
>What do?
Thank the Omnissiah it wasn't another necron tomb.
Suppose an explorer found a complete STC blueprint for an Imperator class titan or ship, how much would the Mechanicus pay for it? Would they pay or just kill him and take it?
Would probably bargain a 'finder's fee' in the form of a larger ship or upgraded arsenal, which the Mechanicus would consider a small price to pay. If he tried to haggle they'd shoot him dead and pick it off his corpse.
The Emperor IS dead. His body is just the anchor that allows him to stay connected to the Imperium and help protect it. If he was ever disconnected it would cause the effective end of the galaxy, not to mention mankind at large.
>If he was ever disconnected it would cause the effective end of the galaxy, not to mention mankind at large.
No. GW will simply asspull some idiotic 'fix' that is sufficiently gaspworthy and catastrophic to make their simps ejaculate, and then go back to making overpriced plastic models and busted new edition rulebooks that require years of fixing.
In the gaunt's ghost books they mention that the last guard unit who found an intact STC were all given their own planets to rule, and those were just plans to make a slightly bigger knife.
In the same book they discover the stc for making men of iron but they blow it all up since AI is heresy, because the planet was corrupted by chaos, and ultimately because it was dangerous to put that power in anyone's hands.
Depends on the Magos. In one book, there was a tale of a bunch of nobodies who found a piece of STC for kitchen knives, and got rewarded with an entire solar system.
>Suppose an explorer found a complete STC blueprint for an Imperator class titan
Wouldn't it be more likely for a titan STC to be the Castigator class or very similar, current Imperial titans are basically babies first Titan compared to what they had in the DAoT.
Imperator classes aren't lost technology yet either, some forgeworlds can produce them but rarely do because it's more cost and time effective to build multiple warlords instead.
Was just using them as an example. They're the biggest, most lethal machines I know of in 40k. Insert another valuable lost technology as you like.
Games Workshop make a fricking WARHAMMER BATTLEFRONT GAME.
It's free fricking tendies.
>Picking your planet to war over as the battleground just like in Star Wars
>Driving a Leman Russ into squads of Necrons
>Fricking people up in a Tau Mech
>Heroes are literally HQ units
It's fricking dumb that this dosn't exist.
Congratulations, you described what Eternal Crusade was meant to be. Now go look how well that turned out under the company GW went with.
>Eternal Crusade
Not the same thing at all, that was a fricking MMO ofc it was going to fail.
I'm not familiar with 40k lore at all but I just like the idea of this emperor sitting there, barely a skeleton but still taking in a massive amount of information fed through all of those little cables coming from wherever and then coming up with a decision.
I remember some anon here talking about how he's actually almost dead but sheer [something] is keeping him alive or something.
>of this emperor sitting there, barely a skeleton but still taking in a massive amount of information fed through all of those little cables coming from wherever and then coming up with a decision.
Does it hurt to be hooked into that machine?
I don't know. It probably would. I'm guessing that it doesn't matter how much pain you're in given that you're the head of some soulless monstrosity of an organization.
Hired Gun was good... with like a small "g"
I really enjoyed the new chaos gate. I think it is objectively a good game, even if it does borrow a lot of systems from other titles.
I think it's a good but incomplete game. Enemy variety will probably come reasonably fast since they already have the assets ready for at least a few khorne units from the tutorial but It desperately needs some sandbox mode to try stuff out after the campaign ends. Also, custom missions wouldn't hurt.
Mechanicus is good and so is Battlefleet Gothic Armada 2. So I guess the answer is 2019.
Chaosbane is bretty gud.
5
When it was just you and the bros playing together and women hadn't entered your realm of consciousness yet.
Tell me, bros: Will Warhammer Boltgun be good?
Maybe.
Nu-Squats are still better than Eldar atleast.
I enjoyed this one,but why are the necrons so fricking op
lore accurate
I enjoyed the story campaign for this one but it was to fricking short. I got almost all the upgrade points you can get and barely finished a character upgrade path for everyone. Also the sisters of battle were useless compared to my already veteran space marine units. Never used them.
Dawn of War Dark Crusade
Space Marine
Mechanicus
Remember when the Emperor told Morty that he was a b***h that wasn't worth redeeming and then burned down half of Nurgle's garden after resurrecting Girlyman a second time from super space AIDS?
Then he told Guilliman that he had become a sad doomer sack of shit who's given up on the species and that Guilliman should just do what he feels is best.
>ONLY IN DEATH DOES DUTY END
K I N O
I
N
O
How can one skeleton be so based?
best character in the setting
Hope he has a fun adventure in the Great Rift
How's the audio book version?
Audiobook version is fantastic
and the guy that does it is the voice of SETTRA THE IMPERISHABLE in WH2
Time to go get it then.
I'd also recommend the Twice Dead King if you want some more Necronkino.
It's more about suffering and necron politics than a wacky adventure though.
I really liked it.
Very good. Used a free audible credit to buy it, man I felt kinda guilty I got such a gem for free.
If you're ever looking for something to burn a credit on, the Aubrey Maturin books all have top tier audiobooks.
They're incredibly comfy.
>Two chapters in
>Trazyn punched a dinosaur in the fricking throat
Holy shit why didn't I get this sooner
I forgot to mention that Richard Reed also does the reading for Twice Dead King
Absolutely would recommend picking up both of those when you're done with Infinite and the Divine
I already want to go buy a Trazyn model due to this book, I'm afraid I'll have a full Necron army at this rate.
Sadly Trazyn's model is really old and honestly not that great looking but I know exactly how you feel
Trazyn really is one of the galaxy's greatest trolls, second only to Cypher.
If anyone doesn't know the same author wrote a short story with Trazyn setting up a Nid exibit and things going as you expect, it is real good.
Space Marine followed by mechanicus
It's been too long, my friend. Hope Spehs Marine 2 will be good.
Nurgle's power is truly horrifying. I kneel to you Nurgle chads.
The upside is he fricks up your brain so hard you don't care about the parasites and viruses ravaging your bloated carcass.
Its not that you dont care, all the parasites and shit feels GOOD like SUPER GOOD and euphoric
you dont even feel it. you know why plague marines are always slow/tanky right in every game? Nurgle fricks up your body but he also relinquishes you from the pain. eventually your nose falls off and you just shrug. you didnt even notice. all your nerve endings just dont function anymore. you can tell the mucus and pus is there but it doesnt really bother you.
nids are my favourite <3
Sell me on the nids, bro
the nids are theoretically one of, if not, the most powerful faction in 40k but in reality in 9 out of 10 engagements in the lore, they get fricked on by space marines or some other faction because they can't let the bugs get a win once in a while.
i dont know how to sell em to you but to me however, they are still the coolest and most alien faction in all of 40k and i love them for it. as soon as i saw them i pretty much gravitated towards them and thats what sold me off on them. Just a never-ending hivemind of enormous proportions that the universe of 40k potentially still hasn't seen yet in its entirety, making them a threat to anything that has a single cell in their body.
I love nids, they are my favourite <3
Nids can't "win" because Nids have no capacity to take and hold territory leading to some kind of long term status quo reset. They eat, they grow bigger, the spread. Anything less would be lore inaccurate unless you do the same thing to Nids they did with Necrons and soften their edge, which isn't fun.
Nids will just eat all organic life in the galaxy and then frick off
They're also the most utilitarian race; they're not killing out of bloodthirst, some delusion of grandeur or to sate some immaterial god frickos who sit on their asses all day. They're eating literally everything to preserve and make use of whatever genetic qualities other races may have. Once the Milky Way has been consumed it will be teeming with life... until the Tyranids sniff out another galaxy full of wasteful meat, lightyears away.
Gork and Mork would beat up the Hivemind if they thought it would put up a fight
genestealer hands typed this post
Tyranids eat thing because theres a literal hivemind in the void that tells them to do so because hes perma-hungry. no more no less. theyre 100% one-track. theyre the self-replicating grey blob endgame.
Nids win in the end.
The only possible counter to the nids is the combined might of the entire Necron race, which will likely never happen.
Every tyranid fleet is a near apocalyptic event and they are all just the tiniest tendrils of the entire hive mind
They also actively counter the warp just by existing in large numbers
Go away, troon.
Pfft, Nids will get crippled eventually. They're dumb as frick, a lot of them starve in space from basic trickery, and when two fleets meet one will eat the other, strenghtening the hive as a whole but rather helping everyone else. And even in the worst what-if scenario they can't do shit to the Necrons besides inconveniencing them by robbing them of potential bodies.
>Nids win in the end.
That's a weird way to spell Orks
Orks lost their war against the nids.
Last time the Nids fought Orks the Orks literally got bored and fricking left because Thraka called them to go fight other stuff.
Last time the nids and orks fought, the nids won.
the zerg but more evolution-y
can't beleve gw got away with copying the zerg like that
I mean I'm just surprised no one sued god for making bugs tbh
faction with the highest ratio of female players guess why
>guess why
vore
>faction with the highest ratio of female players guess why
Are you trying to imply people lewd the tyranids, anon?
I bought a bunch of Necron minis but have never painted them.
I should do that one of these days
I say that every month
Dawn of War 2: Retribution.
Final Liberation.
Which God, Ganker? For me, it's Khorne. You're going to have to fight, bleed, and die anyway, might as well have fun with it.
For me I'd worship Slannesh and Tzeentch. Don't ask why, it would just cater to my fetishes.
Mork
Gork > Mork
My fist > your teeth
You take that back, you stupid git
old good new bad
Does anyone actually like Eldar unironically
Elves are cool.
Space is cool.
Space elves are cool.
Two of those statements are incorrect.
Frick you, space is cool.
>Elves are cool
You lost me
only the exodites
The problem with Eldar is that they can only be smart as GW writers.
>Be Howling Banshee
>Train for hundreds of years how to best use a sword
>Equipped with wargear handed down through generations of Banshees, with armor adorned with various runes of your heritage
>Deploy for the first time ever as the Craftworld demands, in order to fulfill a vision that the Farseers have had that will lead to the safety of everyone you know and love
>Get immediately shot to death by four fresh conscripts with lasguns who were farmers yesterday
>The Slaanesh cult your were sent to destroy drags your corpse away and defiles it that night
>Your Craftworld gets wiped out the following week by a single passing Space Marine chapter, which after that goes on to destroy the cult without a single casualty
Do you want to know the dark future? The dark future is an imperial boot stomping on the face of every xeno scum, forever.
>The ultimate fate of all xenos and heretics is to be ground down itno pavement, so that all throughout the Imperium mankind can constantly enjoy walking, running, and driving over their enemies
What did the xenos do to deserve so much hate?
>Orks
Rampant uncaring violence and looting
>Tyranids
Rampant violence
>Necrons
Rampant uncaring violence
>T'au
Rampant expansion into Imperial territory. Existing.
>Eldar of all kinds
Too many crimes to count. They especially are the most vile and despicable of all xenos and each deserves far worse than mere death.
Shut up, Vulkan
SEX WITH SPACE ELVES
UOOOOHHHHHH YVRAINE TUMMY SO EROTIC
>t. Roboute Girlyman
How long would Guilliman last if he sat on the Golden Throne?
He wouldn't
Eldar will be kept alive and bred in order to continually force the offspring into hard labour constructing monuments depicting the Imperium casting down the Craftworlds and Commoragh.
gotta go fast.
more like gotta die fast.
Live fast, die young.
*Chogorisian throat singing noises*
Dark Eldar solely because of Path of the Dark Eldar.
I really want a fully fleshed out chapter master 2 made by an actual game studio
With warhammer 40k DoW 2 Retribution
>Warhammer 40k DoW 2 Retribution
Elite mod and you're correct
Why don't the Tyranids farm planets? Consume 95% of the planet, wait a decade or two for the vegetation and insects to repopulate the planet then come back and do it again.
because nids need constant biomass and farming planets doesn't provide it fast enough
Consume the planet to a lifeless rock, move on
That doesn't seem very sustainable.
Because the hive fleets are HUGE.
If you could prevent any new nid from being made, and could 1-shot-1-kill every single one of them, there still isn't enough ammunition in the galaxy to make a dent in their numbers.
The fleet incursions you see in the galaxy are just the tip of the iceberg.
If they are indeed that many then it doesn't sound like they could sustain those numbers even if they devour a hundred million habitable planets a day planets a day
it's 40k, it doesn't have to make sense.
The implication is that they Tyranids are on the run from something.
The silent king of the necrons after he ordered the necrons to go to sleep and wait out this warp shenanigans he fricked off in an FTL ship intending to never return to the milky way as his penance for dooming his entire race to be soulless robots.
When he saw the first tyranid fleet he got so spooked he turned tail and ran back to start alerting the tomb worlds of the threat.
The Necrons are also partially interested in regaining their souls and becoming flesh and blood beings again, and if all the biological races are killed off then there isn't anything out there that can help them regain what they lost.
Farming doesn't create new elements, just converts it.
If you just stripmine the world of all relevant material you're getting most of what you want much faster.
How do you get the Mechanicus OST out of your head once it's stuck?
Simple you abandon your flesh
By not listening to it for months or more. The only cure for earworm.
The last patches improved it a lot by fixing huge flaws
Not THE BEST but it's a serviceable shooter
...gussy
the moment he introduced that shitty character it went all downhill, you just know he gets off to shotas and tried to extend his malicious fetish to others.
dawn of war 2.
When we were still in 7th ED era. Mechanicus and Chaos Gate are however good.
1st edition/rouge trader
Is it fair to say that Mechanicus has one of the all-time best vidya soundtracks?
I JUST want a fricking video game that is the tabletop game already like they haven't realized they can make money selling virtual pieces and figures yet?! and that people would buy the frick out of them?!!
>wanting GW NFTs
I don't; I just know that's the only fricking way I'm getting that kind of game.
>who made that cool art?
https://www.artstation.com/tarfken
>thanks, but don't talk to me or my son ever again
If the """"god"""" emperor was so great then there'd have been more than 2 good warhammer games
checkmate, imperium.
What do the High Lords of Terra even do all day?
Bicker and plot amongst each other, every time Cawl is around BobbyG, he begs him to kill Raskian
>every time Cawl is around BobbyG, he begs him to kill Raskian
Why?
Raskian doesn't care about the Imperium at large and Cawl wants de facto control over the Mechanicum. BobbyG doesn't trust Cawl because Cawl made an AI of himself and slots different personalities of peoples souls and or brains that he has integrated within himself.
I thought they retconned Perpetuals
No. In fact they added a new one, Erda, a woman who was the Emperor's intellectual equal and was just as powerful as him, yet she was also extremely caring and it was her who tried to stop the Emperor from starting the Great Crusade by ejecting all of the Primarchs into space, where the Chaos Gods just sort of took advamtage of things and swept them all up.
>just as powerful as him
I don't think that was part of it, she just couldn't die.
Dawn of War 1/2 really was the last good Warhammer media. Nothing has captured the essence of the 40k universe as well as them including tabletop.
The only lore I know is from the HH books I'm ready, just about to finish Battle for the Abyss.
Question for lore gays, how come Thousand Sons can't use their psychic powers but Librarians can? In Decent of Angels, Zahariel is trained by a Librarian to use his psychic abilities.
Please respond
The release will be a shitshow, but kino will be back on the menu this September and if you can't stand some temporary jank in this upcoming fine game dining you're a pussy anyway.
Ogryn main for me. Tanky as I can build him. Protect the lil uns.
In a thread yesterday someone mentioned how the Ogryn will probably be an anti-Bardin? Bardin was the only Vermintide character that could melee in the frontline while the other characters could safely shoot above his head. The Ogryn can shoot above the humans, and should be able to carry heavier weaponry than they do, so he could be the TF2 heavy.
I will also accept a chaingun wielding walking tank.
I only came in this thread to add more 40k images to my collection, thank you lads for posting.
Who could stop the Inquisition if they ever became corrupt? The chain of authority ends with them.
This already happened, Sister of Battle ended it.
No, that was the Ecclesiarchy going corrupt
Grey Knights, Black Templar, Girlyman, Celestine and her lesbian lover Greyfax
Literally any Space Marine chapter that decided to give a frick. Space Wolves already did it to Grey Knights.
any space marine chapter, the Inquisition is a fricking joke
I bought minis but I'm scared to paint them
Everyone's pretty shit starting out with it, Anon. Practice makes perfect; watch some tutorials of what to think of, keep stuff simple until your techniques get better and keep low but hopeful expectations on your early results. A buddy of mine starting painting minis out of nowhere, after never having done any visual arts until then, and pulled off pic related after like 12-18 months.
https://pastebin.com/PhETapuN
Also, painting's a great hobby for listening to or watching shit on the side
Thanks for that pastebin, anon.
Hopefully my necron warriors turn out halfway decent
Start practicing. You can strip the paint off of old figures anyhow, once your skill gets better.
Oh, Necrons aren't too bad to start with. Just spray them black and try different applications of metal paint, drybrushing, painting, putting washes on top of standard "silver" metal, etc. and put some small color details on top of all that.
Have fun!
Thanks anon!
The Emperor is Malal
Prove me wrong
He's not, but they're siblings.
...but they're not space marines! where my female troony space marines, reeeeeeeeee
Are sisters allowed to have bfs?
Probably not, but they do frick Guardsmen
depends on the order. I think White Rose takes a vow of celibacy, but most do not.
And even then its unlikely, they move around the galaxy a lot.
So what's happening in 40k right now?, last I read there was an enormous rift in the galaxy
it was obvious GW planned to kill/advance the setting of 40k like they did with WHFB so they could drop low-sales lines and clean up the rules, but they only got halfway into the lead up before the age of sigmar backlash forced them to scrap similar plans.
so we had new space marines after 10,000 years and a couple of the primarchs came back (good and bad) and cadia finally got toasted by abbadon and everything seemed to be about ready for a time skip into the new and probably worse "warhammer 41k" but then it was awkwardly frozen into equilibrium instead. Probably for the best though
I fricking hate Abbadon so much
dont talk about Failbaddon that way.
What went wrong with advancing warhammer fantasty t. knows absolutely nothing about warhammer fantasy
they blew up the fantasy world and lots of factions and units became "yeah they all literally died and you can't buy them models anymore and they're not part of the new game" and if your stuff sold well enough to survive all that history and lore from the fantasy world was replaced by stuff like this pic
And it happened right at the time fantasy tabletop was starting to grow again thanks to warhammer total war
AOS turned out to be such a blunder that a few years ago GW announced they're bringing fantasy back. They're not going to try it in 40k, despite the intention having been obvious.
Didn't total war come out several years after the end times
AoS 1st edition came out 6 months before Warhammer Total War, so GW had new customers walking into stores trying to get into fantasy only to be told "we don't sell thing you want to buy" and to play the much sparser AoS instead.
>Oak of ages past
how could they do this to the wood elves
If I walked into a game store and saw this pic for a fantasy tabletop game, not knowing it was games workshop, I would pass. There is nothing inspiring about this image, it's the most generic trash I've ever seen.
Its the ultimate irony of the fantasy debacle.
GW finally fricking opened up their licence and started letting other companies make shit for the old world, vermin tide and Total warhammer were the first 2 big iterations and they were a smash fricking hit beyond anyones guess. And in the same 6 month span they ended up nuking the fantasy universe so all the things that these new fans were getting drawn into, they had to go into a GW store and be told "Oh yeah we blew it all up."
At that time i was really big into the local GW store because it had just opened up and i was wanting to support them, and it was almost painful having to watch and or explain myself to new people "Yeah that world is gone." And almost no one gives a shit about AoS story/settings, even the most die hard AoS fans cant stay it with a strait face or look you in the eyes as they say the setting and story is ok, because even they know its hot fricking garabe. The fact GW is putting out "The old world" is more or less poof they fricked up
>If I walked into a game store and saw this pic for a fantasy tabletop game, not knowing it was games workshop, I would
I'm that guy.
I have played an unhealthy amount of vermintide and total warhammer.
I had a general interest in maybe starting up the tabletop hobby, so im not just sitting in front of a computer all the time.
When I looked into it and all I saw was the Sigmar stuff, I lost interest.
many such cases
>They're not going to try it in 40k
30k released last week anon
>Time flows backwards now
Huh? 30k is them trying to capitalize on all the fricking people they burned with 8th and 9th.
how did they burn people? didn't they just release new marines but leave the old ones still usable?
Actually hobbyist here.
9th ed is probably the worst it's ever been across all systems, I don't know any other veteran who fricking plays it who isn't a waac gay.
Bloated rules, constant faqs and powercreep because 40k is only about comp balancing now.
Everyone I know plays specialist, heresy/sigmar
They canonically destroyed the entire setting and replaced it with shit. Then they added space marines and called it a day.
a bunch of primarchs are back
the silent king is back
nids are up to some shit
there's bigger space marines now
ghaz died and got a new body
the emperor is awake and using is new god powers to influence shit again
the tau are still homosexuals
you know what? thats it. Im starting another Black Crusade. You guys are gonna rue the day....
It's 41022, anon, you can't call it that anymore.
The PC term is Special African American Religious Operation
is he ever coming back? can he be resurrected somehow?
Steal that eldar life goddess next time he's burning down Nurgle's house for funsies and she can probably arrange something.
The problem isn't the emperor coming back. He's a perpetual, as soon as he "dies" he would regenerate.
The problem is if his ass is off the golden throne for even a moment the astronomican goes dark (the beacon that allows people to navigate in the warp) which would isolate all the regions of the imperium.
It would also open up a new eye of terror on earth which has implications for everyone. Not to mention a c'tan is imprisoned deep in mars, that would now be loose.
Thoughts on this?
>When was the last time a 40k game was good?
last night, Dawn of War III
Dawn of War 1 Dark Crusade
What does your faction of choice says about you?
- Imperial in general
>based human loyalist that care about his own kind and knows what's need to be done to survive in the world
- space marines
>most likely newbie, just want to be le ebin superman and kick ass for the imperium
- imperial guard
>hard worker kind of person that believes regular humans can be as capable as supermen and stand on their own
- sisters of battle
>most likely a girl or a coomer
- mechanicum
>geeks and transhumanist gays that like technology way too much
- eldar
>gay that wants to stand out, clearly an attention prostitute than thinks he's better than others or above humans
- chaos in general
>le edgy self-centered fedora kid that thinks only himself matter in the world, usually manchildren that have daddy issues
- nurgle aligned
>basement dweller that havent showered in years, and would like to live forever in its own pestilence
- slaanesh aligned
>trannies and coombrains
- khorne aligned
>board flipping homosexuals that can't take even a joke and yet think they are honorable somehow
- tzeench aligned
>pseudo-intellectuals, normally the morbidly obese fedora guy that thinks he plays 4D chess all the time
- dark eldar
>BDSM fetishists
- orks
>trolls and Black folk that just play the game high all the time
- necron
>nihilistic pseudo-intellectuals that think they are above even death
- tau
>self-righteous kids that doesnt even understand morality
- tyranids
>people that dont know what the frick they are doing and just want to rush everything with numbers
- unmentioned
>too quirky or irrelevant
>- mechanicum
>geeks and transhumanist gays that like technology way too much
Deal with it.
>based human loyalist that care about his own kind and knows what's need to be done to survive in the world
imperiumgays literally ruined the galaxy, their shithole of an empire backstabbed the Interex. The *only* reason chaos has the power it has was because little b***hboy Horus inherited the psychopathic disregard for other people of his father.
spotted the chaos kiddie
>post literally points that the imperium directly created the shitheads that are Chaos
>YOURE A CHAOS SPY
imperiumgays are mentally ill
nah, the imperium didnt create chaos, only the anarchist kiddies joined them for being buttmad at daddy emprah
Lol look at the seething little imperial slaveboy. Go die on a muddy battlefield to an ork for your planetary goyvernor while i rail warpcocane off a daemonettes breasts you loser.
frick off chaosgay, you are nothing but a strip of decayed flesh that fell off the corpse of the Imperium. Both of you suck ass.
>i rail warpcocane off a daemonettes breasts
you mean suck the dick of a daemonette
That's the Sororitas job.
yeah I'm sure the Interex could fight off Orks, Deldar, Necrons, Tyranids, Daemons and 6 gorillion xenos races if they couldn't even fend off a single space marine legion
Horus went nuts because he got stabbed by a chaos tainted sword
Well, that's not the reason really. He would have died and everything would have been okay (Lunar wolves would have been punished for trampling all the bystanders).
What corrupted him was the unholy resurrection and Erebus trickling lies to him.
I fricking hate this retcon. Why does horus have to be a perfect flawless person corrupted by a magical artifact. Why cant he be corrupted by power or fear of the Emperor and have an actual personality.
HH is full of weird shit. You now remember the time when Emps let all of Angron's friends get killed instead of glassing their enemies from orbit with the giant fleet he had brought with him to kill those very same enemies anyways (which he actually did end up doing later as well, just after all of Angron's friends were dead), which basically turned Angron traitor from minute 1.
Because that's what makes the fall more tragic.
When out of all the angles in heaven it was the most beautiful one that fell to earth it was more impactful that the mightiest of them fell.
It is more impactful that the first among equals and the greatest brother is the one to fall.
When was this retconned? In book 2 of HH his insecurities about the Emperor are exploited
>- orks
>trolls and Black folk that just play the game high all the time
aint even mad, this is just spot on
Why do people in these threads always insult Ork players?
are you telling me there are ork players that are serious on their games and not just fricking around?
They're RPing as orks
Pretty based if you ask me
Your post smells like a typical insecure guardsman praise kek incel that takes hfy pics made by /tg/ seriously. Orks fans are bros having fun, especially when they start using wienerney accents to roleplay.
Mechanicus was great
Gladius is a good game, specifically a good civilization clone, but it's not really a 40k game. Not enough violence or screaming.
I always saw Gladius as a tabletop simulator with some animations and sounds, and I think it does a good job at that
>some animations and sounds
ahahahahhaa
Tanks rattle and guns shoot, that's it. There's no voice acting, ZERO, outside of the intro cutscene. It boggles the fricking mind, you make 40 40k games with full voice acting and you instead of reusing literally any audio asset at all from 40,000 hours of recorded dialogue you just say "ehh frick it" and write in some text blurbs over the units's heads instead
in fact, the more I stew on it, the more gladius feels like it shipped unfinished, which is funny because 20% of all content in the game is paid DLC. For frick's sake, use the dawn of war business model!
I like Gladius
Was Angron's anger justified?
Like 50/50 split between legitimate grievances and "Oh you're just a c**t"
>When was the last time a 40k game was good?
Early 4th edition.