>RTS ruined by try hard esports chasing >shooters ruined by try hard esports chasing >fighting games ruined by try hard esports chasing >mobas ruined by try hard esports chasing
Its all so tiresome.
Yes, before 2013, namely the year when Valve introduced crowdfunded prizepools to The International, added a separate ranked mode to Dota with visible MMR and introduced the proto Battlepass
All team games are like that, especially Counter Strike and L4D (not Tf2 though) but its gotten muuuch worse with the normalization of "ranked" as the main way to play
1 year ago
Anonymous
That's fair. I just meant, as far as I've seen, MOBAs were always way worse about this than pretty much any other genre, point-for-point. Even when they were just fun fan games within an RTS people were nastier than they are with fighting games and non-ranked shooters.
Shame the devs couldn’t hold back their masochism. One game can easily last 10 hours, and when you're first playing you will not know what to upgrade and when, and you will fail. Bonus points if there was sone crack in a mountain you didn’t see because if the isometric camera and one zombie ruins everything. Even a limited save system would have fixed it where you can save only like once every two hours
Stellaris is a terrible strategy game but an alright roleplaying simulator. You need to lean in to the autism and make deliberately suboptimal decisions for the sake of following a theme.
I think RTS died because it requires an APM that is too high for the average player. 4x are slow games.
I also think that MOBAs replaced RTS in popularity because it also requires fewer actions to play competently but still has a high skill ceiling
RTS campaigns are a joke difficulty wise if you're passable at RTS. The reality is, the amount of APM you need to constantly build new shit, move multiple things at once and position them correctly while watching out for surprise attacks is huge. Increased further by active abilities, expanding and min maxing (like not queing units because that is really suboptimal), not getting supply blocked etc. Remove all that and you're stuck with a shell of a game.
maybe you could correct that with a game where buildings are very expensive and seldom made, while focusing more on handling troops, and remove shit like having to go back to a building and improve ip, more like something automatic, or that you can setup for later
all these order things, high APM things, and very high skill floor and anti casual and thus keep RTS niche, while not necessarily adding much depth to the game
also games rely on palyers clickign instead of teaching them to use keybinds like in every other game, imagine clicking on shoot bottom right to play counter strike, or having to click reload
4x mainly markets itself to autistic computer gamers. RTS killed itself trying to chase the e-sports dragon the same way most MMOs did trying to top WoW.
-RTS needs a very tiht elo system where noobs play with other noobs
-it needs to ditch the annoying tedious shit abnd having to learn a bunch of orders and whatever >it needs to reduce a little micro management to focus on the fun of strategy without removing the good parts of tactics
-it needs to have fun art direction and good soundtrack
-needs to teach people use keybinds and not frickin clicking slowly which kinda breaks the gameplay
basically needs to be well made in a market where it is deemed as too risky. people are too incompetent and investors are prudent so it may happen but unlikely. to make a RTS easy to access but still with depth and especially very fun, not that easy and most devs are kinda meh
RTS campaigns are a joke difficulty wise if you're passable at RTS. The reality is, the amount of APM you need to constantly build new shit, move multiple things at once and position them correctly while watching out for surprise attacks is huge. Increased further by active abilities, expanding and min maxing (like not queing units because that is really suboptimal), not getting supply blocked etc. Remove all that and you're stuck with a shell of a game.
Reads like a zoomer who never booted Warcraft 3 after school and joined custom maps for fun
I've been playing wc3 customs consistently for over a decade, even after it "died" because of Dota/automated lobby spam and even after reforged. Anyway, contribute to discussions.
I'm going to assume a lot of strategy players are like me. I was a good student especially when it came to math and logical reasoning, but I'm also pretty darn clumsy and struggled with anything that was muscle memory intensive. So for someone like me, the micro is just enforcing an absurdly high skill barrier before I can even engage with the strategy elements. I prefer 4X where you can play the game at your own pace and it's pretty much impossible to screw up execution.
The more I try other games the more I realize im more of a Total War fan than a strategy fan.
I wish more devs made battles like them, CA sucks donkey dick.
Disagree, mainstream RTS releases that follow the formulas of other mainstream RTS releases are incredibly repetitive yes, but we've seen mods (mostly for WC3 and SC2 but also stuff like Ultimate Apocalypse) that heavily break nearly all RTS traditions and are much more fun and replayable
But I'm talking about campaigns design. The nature of RTS is such that being passable in skirmishes makes you a God in campaigns, and most of Ganker doesn't realize this because they never bothered to learn the basics (or were never taught). I wish that RTS were better designed so campaigns were better, as I also dont like melee 1v1s
Also, there's some really good and difficult RTS campaigns done by mods, look at Jayberino (huge gay, WC3)s youtube channel and GiantGrantGames (SC2) for them. They BTFO any regular campaign in terms of variety and design.
That's primarily because fighting game and RTS singleplayer is meant to be symmetric, the same way a multiplayer match is following generally similar rules. But action games like DMC, Souls or shooters like DOOM or nuDOOM aren't.
The exception is actually a new game, Starship troopers which is exclusively SP and you play against aliens that function entirely differently form you.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Basically, yeah. Crying about mp single player being easy is stupid. That's the point. They're tutorials + flavor.
That's entirely the devs fault. Nothing prevents them from making skirmish based campaigns that progressively teaches players how to fight, then move on in a second campaign to teach building and a final campaign where you put your skills to the test. They re aimed at niches so get reap what they sow. Most casuals actually get btfod by campaigns at some point when they start to require game knowledge. Some in game progression in single player as a carrot wouldnt be too much either.
Blizzard has been trying this to no avail, SC2s regular campaign is too easy even on brutal if you're good and is anxiety inducing if you're not (mostly because all the missions have a soft timer though). In some ways though I think they hit the mark with their COOP PvE mode and learned a lot of lessons with it but sadly I doubt those lessons will mean much.
Shilling this video by grant because its on point
Mods are great however they're niche in an already niche genre, unless the game has a server browser and it automatically downloads the modpack for you while connecting to the server the custom mode will only have a handful of people playing at any one time, not enough to seriously keep a game alive.
Ultimate Apocalypse still (used to at least) have a lot of online games, and WC3 mods like AWLR worked on an auto-downloading lobby system using the same client and it used to be very easy to find games.
it's so fricking weird. there are many good Star trek mods, and instead of doing a stellaris content pack of Star Trek stuff, they're going to fork it into its own game to just die.
Stellaris looks interesting, but I sunk like 9 years into EU4 and I'm too lazy to learn another grand strategy game, especially one that keeps fricking overhauling its mechanics with every update.
RTS hasn't died out it's just quieter than it used to be. Not sure why everyone doomposts about RTS so much, I guess it's the same reason people say Fighting games are dead. Here's a partial list of stuff that's come out recently or is coming out soon
>D.O.R.F >Age of Empires 2: Rise of Rome >Aliens Dark Descent >Last Train Home >Starship Troopers: Terran Command >Total Warhammer 3 + DLCs >Men of War 2 >Terminator - Dark Fate: Definance >Total War Pharaoh >Homeworld 4
The autistic incelibate teens that play those games also love "being online" and chatting with their "friends" or watching streamers. 4X is hands-off enough to easily make some le based posts or look at their second monitor when necessary, whereas RTS requires them to pay attention for a full match.
It also panders more to their RP fantasies (delusions).
The economy killed RTS, SP/customs only RTS wont sell well enough but multiplayer is too anxiety inducing and too repetitive for most people. Dota and LeL on the other hand give you over 100 characters, mid match customization and varied team compositions to keep things different every game.
>Shitlaris >Patches ruin the game and remove content >Everything plays the same way, unless you pick your designated [kill everyone civic here] >Pops that killed performance
What patch removes content? How does everything play the same way? Clausewitz is an embarrassing engine. I won't defend the engine practically forcing single threaded performance.
Stellaris sucks nowadays tho, they've reworked and revamped this game like 10 fricking times, to the point where if a person says that they liked Stellaris it can mean a completely different game.
one thing sort of does. It'd be expensive but would still end up being repetitive because it probably wouldn't be adaptable to a large variety of singleplayer scenarios like the culling of Stratholme.
Master of Orion 2 is a good introduction if you aren't put off by DOS graphics. Alpha Centauri is amazing. Civ is always a good time, but I find the older Civs more fun. Call to Power 2 is also pretty good.
by using their own game engines instead of trying to do strategy on Unix and Unreal.
>Unix
Unity , sorry , muscle memory
Bot post
>4X
>posts borderline VN
>huge gay moron dislikes a game so much he refuses to even identify its genre correctly
How would you classify a game where "gameplay" is clicking button to read more text with a few choices in-between?
I'd classify that as reductive.
Wow yeah misgenrering is not cool, yikes!
Yikeposters are funny
>paying for the upkeep on all those unused construction ships
ngmi
4X can be enjoyed solo to this day
RTS scrapped good campaigns and fun game modes for soulless asiatic esport clout
>RTS ruined by try hard esports chasing
>shooters ruined by try hard esports chasing
>fighting games ruined by try hard esports chasing
>mobas ruined by try hard esports chasing
Its all so tiresome.
Were MOBAs ever not hyper competitive autism?
Yes, before 2013, namely the year when Valve introduced crowdfunded prizepools to The International, added a separate ranked mode to Dota with visible MMR and introduced the proto Battlepass
I dunno man, even back on Warcraft 3 DOTA people would get really fricking anal and salty.
All team games are like that, especially Counter Strike and L4D (not Tf2 though) but its gotten muuuch worse with the normalization of "ranked" as the main way to play
That's fair. I just meant, as far as I've seen, MOBAs were always way worse about this than pretty much any other genre, point-for-point. Even when they were just fun fan games within an RTS people were nastier than they are with fighting games and non-ranked shooters.
removing skelly king was the first step towards degeneracy
for the first six or so years of their existence, before lol even came out and it was a wc3 custom map
Only intelligent and correct answer in this thread. I wish more devs knew this.
>RTS dies
>comes back to bite you on the ass
Shame the devs couldn’t hold back their masochism. One game can easily last 10 hours, and when you're first playing you will not know what to upgrade and when, and you will fail. Bonus points if there was sone crack in a mountain you didn’t see because if the isometric camera and one zombie ruins everything. Even a limited save system would have fixed it where you can save only like once every two hours
this game felt more like a puzzle than a strategy game to me. Either I was winning and bored, or I was totally fricked, with nothing in between
>Glorified TD shit
zoomer-chan, TD started with SC and WC3 maps
Stellaris is so fricking boring though
Stop playing with bots then. Be like me and become the bot. Now if you'll excuse me, I have organic trophies to collect and protect.
It requires a special amount of extra chromosomes. I'm mostly mad that Paradox makes it because of how israeli they are.
Stellaris is a terrible strategy game but an alright roleplaying simulator. You need to lean in to the autism and make deliberately suboptimal decisions for the sake of following a theme.
what game is that
Looks like the MOO remake.
It's shit, don't buy it.
But thats a cat not a cow.
Cows can have cats, bigot.
No clue, learn to read dates.
I pirate every game i play and don't play it if its not available for pirating so idc
how much gb is that?
I am here to witness one thing and ONE thing only, the rage of some autist that hasn't played the game in years! come on out ya warp loving homosexual
I think RTS died because it requires an APM that is too high for the average player. 4x are slow games.
I also think that MOBAs replaced RTS in popularity because it also requires fewer actions to play competently but still has a high skill ceiling
>RTS died because it requires an APM that is too high for the average player.
nah see
It's just that RTS got reduced to nothing but soulless APM contest, it was thriving before that.
RTS campaigns are a joke difficulty wise if you're passable at RTS. The reality is, the amount of APM you need to constantly build new shit, move multiple things at once and position them correctly while watching out for surprise attacks is huge. Increased further by active abilities, expanding and min maxing (like not queing units because that is really suboptimal), not getting supply blocked etc. Remove all that and you're stuck with a shell of a game.
maybe you could correct that with a game where buildings are very expensive and seldom made, while focusing more on handling troops, and remove shit like having to go back to a building and improve ip, more like something automatic, or that you can setup for later
all these order things, high APM things, and very high skill floor and anti casual and thus keep RTS niche, while not necessarily adding much depth to the game
also games rely on palyers clickign instead of teaching them to use keybinds like in every other game, imagine clicking on shoot bottom right to play counter strike, or having to click reload
morons like this are why rts died.
>rtsbabs STILL tell themselves this lie
your best players get absolutely atropelated when they play mobas
your "skills" are meaningless
>removed all fun from the game update after update
>removed wormhole travel on start
>showed down expansion massively
Gay shit
God I hate the new leader system, it's shit and adds even more tedious micro, plus they hide a bunch of features behind dlc, AGAIN.
the game died when they made it all hyperlanes
4x has just a sandbox mode so devs couldn't shaft the one mode most players play.
4X fans are willing to try something new. RTS fans refuse to. Why bother keep making the latter?
>succeed
Did it? Also frick Stelaris. Game sucks fricking ass.
4x mainly markets itself to autistic computer gamers. RTS killed itself trying to chase the e-sports dragon the same way most MMOs did trying to top WoW.
Because what people actually liked in rts was base building
cuz:
-RTS needs a very tiht elo system where noobs play with other noobs
-it needs to ditch the annoying tedious shit abnd having to learn a bunch of orders and whatever
>it needs to reduce a little micro management to focus on the fun of strategy without removing the good parts of tactics
-it needs to have fun art direction and good soundtrack
-needs to teach people use keybinds and not frickin clicking slowly which kinda breaks the gameplay
basically needs to be well made in a market where it is deemed as too risky. people are too incompetent and investors are prudent so it may happen but unlikely. to make a RTS easy to access but still with depth and especially very fun, not that easy and most devs are kinda meh
Reads like a zoomer who never booted Warcraft 3 after school and joined custom maps for fun
I've been playing wc3 customs consistently for over a decade, even after it "died" because of Dota/automated lobby spam and even after reforged. Anyway, contribute to discussions.
>Canned bread is an RTS
>elitist moron wonders why RTS's are niche
I'm going to assume a lot of strategy players are like me. I was a good student especially when it came to math and logical reasoning, but I'm also pretty darn clumsy and struggled with anything that was muscle memory intensive. So for someone like me, the micro is just enforcing an absurdly high skill barrier before I can even engage with the strategy elements. I prefer 4X where you can play the game at your own pace and it's pretty much impossible to screw up execution.
This is me. I play 4X games cause they're comfy, not because of them being mechanically taxing.
I'm right there with you and the previous guy. I settle in to a comfy journey through the stars.
RTS turned to asiaticclickan.
TBS/4x stayed true to their roots.
Because they can't improve on perfection.
>picrel is an RTS
moron.
The more I try other games the more I realize im more of a Total War fan than a strategy fan.
I wish more devs made battles like them, CA sucks donkey dick.
4x is still comfy
rts is now tryhard
If every stelaris game is suposed to be unique, why does mostly each map i make ends up loiknig like this, up to the names?
Because paradox are shitters who can't be bothered to add more varied map types to the game
So aside from WC, CNC, AoE, what are the best RTS?
AoM, DoW, BFME, SW EAW, RoN, RoL, Sacrifice
Try also looking in the modding scenes of the games
>RoL
Rise of Lations?
That one is good but its not an RTS, I meant "Rises of Legends"
>That one is good but its not an RTS,
???
I was just joking because Id heard of Rise of Nations but not RoL. Thanks for the recs.
I think he means that fantasy version of RoN. Rise of legends or something?
4x is single player focused and has a lot of replayability, there's basically no rts with single player replayability.
Disagree, mainstream RTS releases that follow the formulas of other mainstream RTS releases are incredibly repetitive yes, but we've seen mods (mostly for WC3 and SC2 but also stuff like Ultimate Apocalypse) that heavily break nearly all RTS traditions and are much more fun and replayable
>good at games = moron
>bad at games = smart
No, they're right. Being so hyper competitive that you crowd out casuals kills games.
But I'm talking about campaigns design. The nature of RTS is such that being passable in skirmishes makes you a God in campaigns, and most of Ganker doesn't realize this because they never bothered to learn the basics (or were never taught). I wish that RTS were better designed so campaigns were better, as I also dont like melee 1v1s
Also, there's some really good and difficult RTS campaigns done by mods, look at Jayberino (huge gay, WC3)s youtube channel and GiantGrantGames (SC2) for them. They BTFO any regular campaign in terms of variety and design.
That applies to most games, man. Fighting game single player modes have to cheat to not be braindead.
That's primarily because fighting game and RTS singleplayer is meant to be symmetric, the same way a multiplayer match is following generally similar rules. But action games like DMC, Souls or shooters like DOOM or nuDOOM aren't.
The exception is actually a new game, Starship troopers which is exclusively SP and you play against aliens that function entirely differently form you.
Basically, yeah. Crying about mp single player being easy is stupid. That's the point. They're tutorials + flavor.
That's entirely the devs fault. Nothing prevents them from making skirmish based campaigns that progressively teaches players how to fight, then move on in a second campaign to teach building and a final campaign where you put your skills to the test. They re aimed at niches so get reap what they sow. Most casuals actually get btfod by campaigns at some point when they start to require game knowledge. Some in game progression in single player as a carrot wouldnt be too much either.
Blizzard has been trying this to no avail, SC2s regular campaign is too easy even on brutal if you're good and is anxiety inducing if you're not (mostly because all the missions have a soft timer though). In some ways though I think they hit the mark with their COOP PvE mode and learned a lot of lessons with it but sadly I doubt those lessons will mean much.
Shilling this video by grant because its on point
Mods are great however they're niche in an already niche genre, unless the game has a server browser and it automatically downloads the modpack for you while connecting to the server the custom mode will only have a handful of people playing at any one time, not enough to seriously keep a game alive.
Ultimate Apocalypse still (used to at least) have a lot of online games, and WC3 mods like AWLR worked on an auto-downloading lobby system using the same client and it used to be very easy to find games.
4X is an experience that still has room to grow even better, while RTS is fundamentally just a game that always boils down to a few strategies.
Did they new AoW end up being any good?
Minecraft Legends was fricking awful
>Stellaris
AHAHAHAHAHAHA
What are our thoughts on that upcoming Paradox game that's literally just Stellaris with a Star Trek skin?
it's so fricking weird. there are many good Star trek mods, and instead of doing a stellaris content pack of Star Trek stuff, they're going to fork it into its own game to just die.
Stellaris is one of my least favourite 4X games.
Because you're a bitter old c**t.
I thought Age of Empires 4 was doing alright, is it not?
I think, my normie friend plays it on Steam, I was frankly shocked when he told me I was playing it.
>tfw i can still enjoy single player campaigns
>tfw sweaties can no longer find an mp match
>Boots up Halo Wars 1 campaign
Yep, its strategy time
Stellaris looks interesting, but I sunk like 9 years into EU4 and I'm too lazy to learn another grand strategy game, especially one that keeps fricking overhauling its mechanics with every update.
Is 4X more successful than RTS?
RTS hasn't died out it's just quieter than it used to be. Not sure why everyone doomposts about RTS so much, I guess it's the same reason people say Fighting games are dead. Here's a partial list of stuff that's come out recently or is coming out soon
>D.O.R.F
>Age of Empires 2: Rise of Rome
>Aliens Dark Descent
>Last Train Home
>Starship Troopers: Terran Command
>Total Warhammer 3 + DLCs
>Men of War 2
>Terminator - Dark Fate: Definance
>Total War Pharaoh
>Homeworld 4
Dead genre
>Fighting games are dead
They are
*farts on your face*
thats stinky
The autistic incelibate teens that play those games also love "being online" and chatting with their "friends" or watching streamers. 4X is hands-off enough to easily make some le based posts or look at their second monitor when necessary, whereas RTS requires them to pay attention for a full match.
It also panders more to their RP fantasies (delusions).
MOBA killed RTS.
The economy killed RTS, SP/customs only RTS wont sell well enough but multiplayer is too anxiety inducing and too repetitive for most people. Dota and LeL on the other hand give you over 100 characters, mid match customization and varied team compositions to keep things different every game.
>Shitlaris
>Patches ruin the game and remove content
>Everything plays the same way, unless you pick your designated [kill everyone civic here]
>Pops that killed performance
What patch removes content? How does everything play the same way? Clausewitz is an embarrassing engine. I won't defend the engine practically forcing single threaded performance.
FTL, old defensive stations/outposts and change from planet tiles to pops/buildings killed the performance
Stellaris sucks nowadays tho, they've reworked and revamped this game like 10 fricking times, to the point where if a person says that they liked Stellaris it can mean a completely different game.
But you can return to a past version no?
NTA anon but I remember the last time I tried on Steam they had removed alot of past versions?
Nothing stops devs from making non cheating AI that absolutely shits on players, nothing
one thing sort of does. It'd be expensive but would still end up being repetitive because it probably wouldn't be adaptable to a large variety of singleplayer scenarios like the culling of Stratholme.
What is the best galaxy setting configuration?
Because players don't want to play RTS games, apparently.
Has anybody supported Spellforce 3?
Or A Year of Rain?
Or Crossfire?
What about Stormgate?
Esports
a 20 year old rts does better than stellaris you moronic paradrone
I feel like I've not played a single new 4x game that I've enjoyed since ES2 which released 6 years ago.
bros, what are some good 4X games to get into for someone new to the genre? Should I get stellaris?
>should I get Stellaris
No, it's not very beginner friendly. Start with Civ or if you want space shit play ES2.
I mostly play older titles, so bear that in mind:
Master of Orion 2 is a good introduction if you aren't put off by DOS graphics. Alpha Centauri is amazing. Civ is always a good time, but I find the older Civs more fun. Call to Power 2 is also pretty good.
>what are some good 4X games to get into for someone new to the genre?
As a Zoomer (or late millennial, I don't fricking know) I started with Civ 5.
My first pc game aside from SimCity and SimFarm was a 4x. Ascendancy. Not a great game, but fun. Great soundtrack.
I may be moronic, what are games like Men of war or Gates of Hell classed as?
Garbage
RTT but
is also correct.
Reminds me of Battletech