Cats have been disliked in the west for a long time, they only managed to get some love in the last decades thanks to internet
My question is why dog men didnt become a staple >inb4 kobolds and gnolls
those are bad guys
I don't know man, it seems to me that the infatuation with dogs and loathing of cats were a Victorian England meme. When I look at my language, cats are strongly associated with terms of endearment and dogs with insults.
i think they are getting there through Elderscrolls.
I think the only real Fantasy Races that was added to the western canon that isnt from Tolkien or Mythology are Lizardmen.
Theres some edge cases that werent in Tolkien like Gnomes or Mermaids.
The most recent contender is Tieflings/Demonpeople
cat people still seem to be fairly common in western Fantasy ever since Everquest included the VahShir
Cats have been disliked in the west for a long time, they only managed to get some love in the last decades thanks to internet
My question is why dog men didnt become a staple >inb4 kobolds and gnolls
those are bad guys
In medieval europe cats were associated with the devil and if stories are to be believes, torturing cats was a form of scapegoating
Dog-headed people are well-attested and ubiquitously present in Western mythology. But it doesn't matter because modern fantasy fully divorced itself from the myth. Where the hell did tiflings come from? The only example I can really think of is Merlin. And you're telling me that this garbage is now more popular than dwarves?
Theyre just folklore "Devils". Just like how Fairies are folklorized elves and fair folk.
>Besides the dog-headed people, what are other dog-headed people?
Room temperature IQ comment.
Dog-headed people are present in Balkan, Italian, Eastern European folklores. That's just the examples that I know of, because I'm generally uninterested in Germanic folklore.
Also literally part of the catholic canon.
That beeing said, they were never as culturally ubiqitous as for example "Gnomes" (as in, garden gnomes, dwarves, goblins, leprechauns, little bearded guys basically)
>Cats have been disliked in the west for a long time
Entirely wrong. We have genetic evidence cats were bred in Europe as of the 1300s. The Church itself made illegal torturing cats (because it did happen, unfortunately) under guise of witch persecution in the 1650 or 1680s, dont recall which one.
Torturing cats was unfortunately a fairly common trope throughout ancient history. The Babylonians apparently threw cats in heated cauldrons as a pass time, the way it jumped and screams is supposedly funny of you are a fricking savage, I guess. In 1300s-1600s Europe it wasn't uncommon in the more remote and less educated areas to have superstitions like nailing a black cat to your house protected you from evil. Low class folks would sometimes hunt black cats in large numbers before religious holidays, to a point where eventually the Church had to forbid the practice.
At the same time you have evidence that both common folks and nobles also kept house cats throughout Europe and the Mediterranean. Chinese and Tibetans bred cats and wrote about it 700 years ago. Japanese did the same, however they had this yokai story about cats stealing the soul of people so when someone was too much of a catgay that was a sign one of the cat he owned was a demon cat and had to be killed.
Point is, people's attitude toward cats has pretty much always been as varied as it is today, some instinctively treat them as their own toddlers while others see them as snakes wearing fur, while most are ok with sharing space with them as long as they don't have to care too much about them, and will forget them the second they are out of view.
It sounds like the source is a half-remembered youtube video of a C student in history. >Low class folks would sometimes hunt black cats in large numbers before religious holidays, to a point where eventually the Church had to forbid the practice.
Look up the history of cats and witchcraft, and then look at this description and laugh.
Should really have stopped reading after the word "trope".
1 week ago
Anonymous
World's first cat door was actually the door of a church (Exeter Cathedral, to be precise).
>My question is why dog men didn't become a staple
They were thought to be real up until the early modern period.
Dog-headed men were written about pretty extensively.
So they weren't even consitered fantasy creatures for a very long time. That might be why they don't come up as often in western fantasy proper.
As for OP's question.
Human animal hybrids were almost always monsters in western fiction. So a cat human hybrid would be seen as a demonic abomination and enemy to slay. Not a hero to aspire to.
>Human animal hybrids were almost always monsters in western fiction. So a cat human hybrid would be seen as a demonic abomination and enemy to slay. Not a hero to aspire to.
/thread
OP forgot about werewolfs, empusas, medusas and other hybrid creatures that were all monsters in western folklore
Angles aren't part bird.
Technically they aren't part human ether.
And only until the middle ages did they even start being depicted with wings to represent that they could fly.
Regardless they aren't animal human hybrids.
1 week ago
Anonymous
You got angels with wings right there in the Bible. Along with angels with bull and lion parts.
1 week ago
Anonymous
>You got angels with wings right there in the Bible
Where.
1 week ago
Anonymous
>Above him stood the seraphim. Each had six wings: with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew.
Can't believe I've been forced to post this pic for the second time in the same thread. People don't come here for discussions anymore, they come to point out how somebody is wrong when he's actually totally right.
1 week ago
Anonymous
Dude, does this look even remotely human to you?
1 week ago
Anonymous
Yes, the head is 100% human. And it's a fanciful depiction anyway, they're not described as flying heads in the Bible.
1 week ago
Anonymous
that's a later, stylized, interpretation that don't follow's the description given by the book
And it's a fanciful depiction anyway, they're not described as flying heads in the Bible.
It exactly matches your description and what is written in the bible about seraphim
They aren't described as humans at all.
Hell, if you want to be technically they aren't described as having heads, just faces in the passage. >interpretation that don't follow's the description given by the book
Present a depiction you think more accurately follows the description given of seraphim.
Because it's pretty spot on.
1 week ago
Anonymous
>It exactly matches your description and what is written in the bible about seraphim
>Not covering face with two wings >Not covering feet with two wings
can you even read ?
1 week ago
Anonymous
Do you know the meaning of the word covering?
1 week ago
Anonymous
do you ?
it's faces is completely exposed and visible, i.e. not covered
1 week ago
Anonymous
Ok, here is your seraphim
Now 100% biblically accurate.
1 week ago
Anonymous
1 week ago
Anonymous
That's how Sodom incident happened
1 week ago
Anonymous
that's a later, stylized, interpretation that don't follow's the description given by the book
1 week ago
Anonymous
These aren't angels in the Bible.
https://talesoftimesforgotten.com/2022/12/25/what-do-angels-really-look-like-according-to-the-bible/
1 week ago
Anonymous
This is nearly 50 pages worth of material and dude hasn't even gotten to talking about angles in the first 10. Instead niggling over semantics about hebrew relating to proper names for god.
I do not have the attention, care, or time for this bullshit dude.
If your source can't get to the point then it's on you to at least summarize. Because my patience is totally finished with the amount of waffling about is in what you posted and inability to ever get to the fricking point.
1 week ago
Anonymous
tldr version: What is often called "biblically accurate angels" are actually seraphim and cherubim in the prophetic books of Isaiah and Ezekiel; which are never described as "angels" in the Bible but were separate kinds of heavenly beings. Angels have typically been portrayed as relatively human figures, though likely more similar to Mesopotamian "winged genii" in the earlier texts, and with influence from Greek and Roman iconography in the New Testament.
1 week ago
Anonymous
"Angel" derives from Greek "angelos" which just means "messenger."
So anything delivering a message was an angel. The winged humans was artistic license by medieval artists trying to distinguish them from normal humans and since they tended to fly, slapped dove wings to make them look holy. And demons got bat wings because bats are scary despite demons just being angels who rebelled against god.
And speaking of making them look holy, haloes were stolen from Greek depictions of Apollo as just a heavenly glow around the head which then somehow became twisted to the golden rings above the head.
1 week ago
Anonymous
>haloes were stolen from Greek depictions of Apollo as just a heavenly glow around the head which then somehow became twisted to the golden rings above the head.
partially incorrect, halos came from angel descriptions where it is said that they were "glowing like the sun" so later artist instead of drawing them glowing they just drew the glow coming from the back of their head (much like how apollo was drew) and that later was interpreted like a halo.
1 week ago
Anonymous
"Angel" derives from Greek "angelos" which just means "messenger."
So anything delivering a message was an angel. The winged humans was artistic license by medieval artists trying to distinguish them from normal humans and since they tended to fly, slapped dove wings to make them look holy. And demons got bat wings because bats are scary despite demons just being angels who rebelled against god.
And speaking of making them look holy, haloes were stolen from Greek depictions of Apollo as just a heavenly glow around the head which then somehow became twisted to the golden rings above the head.
I will take your word for it.
1 week ago
Anonymous
>His face is clearly exposed >No feet at all to cover with his wings.
This is not the same as the description
you ask someone if the catgirls or whatever in their media are the result of a cat and human shagging and they will move away from you.
they arent part human and part animal genealogically.
angels arent part human. neither are any other kind of furry.
1 week ago
Anonymous
It's weird that you don't seem to be aware that you're proving his point for him. Girls with cat ears and androgynes with bird wings are the same principle of animal-person hybrid. Either they're both furry or neither of them are furry.
>Human animal hybrids were almost always monsters in western fiction. So a cat human hybrid would be seen as a demonic abomination and enemy to slay. Not a hero to aspire to.
/thread
OP forgot about werewolfs, empusas, medusas and other hybrid creatures that were all monsters in western folklore
but since when folklore mattered for fantasy games and stories ?
Enven Tolkien races are just loosely base on their folkloric origins
>but since when folklore mattered for fantasy games and stories ?
It's been a bases and inspiration for fantasy stuff for basically ever.
Is that even a real question?
That is, unfortunately, another angle to this. Beastfolk have a certain stigma to them because of furries and all the baggage they bring with them. To some, saying your setting has beastfolk implies you accept furries, doubly so if you allow beastfolk PCs.
Just because your setting has beastfolk don't mean any kind of sympathy or acceptance for an online "community" that likes a tumblrfied version of then
Their perceived monopoly of the concept of any form of animal anthropomorphism is one of great shame for western fantasy
I don't think it's that's necessarily it. A lot of people I see don't actually hate animal people, but it's more similar to dwarves in that respect most people want them as like a party member or as a race in a setting but not to actually be/play as them.
the main thing that bothers me about furries in a roleplay setting is how they always insist on furry on furry coupling which is just one step above bestiality. Why can't they just be normal and want to frick a monster girl? why do they have a fursona and want to be the monster themselfs?
I'm using the other definition of bestiality, I'm not calling them zoophiles since you could argue the same about monster frickers, I'm calling it a depraved behavior.
because they are weak
they make a mostly human color pallet swapped nonsense monster persona. they dont even think about all the ways fur will get in their way. they think oh a wolf? it must have super strength. nevermind that even with the largest species of extant most specimens are smaller and weaker than most humans.
no
the real way to go is make a chimera or a dragon- and i mean full on claws and craning neck and spitting poison from crocodile jaws- not "oh lookit me im special cause i put on some christmas walmart reindeer antlers"
you gotta eat whole flocks of sheep
you re an economic disaster when you arent stealing the economy
you are too big to hide everyone will see you coming a mile off and they run when they do.
thats how you monster. also create horrible holf dragon abominations with everything with a pulse.
i get worked up that people might think my worldbuilding setting is furry for mostly having a beastfolk populace.
not because i hate furries, i'd gladly be a furry if i was capable of human interaction. no, i get worked up because furries are too outgoing for me, because they're not a community i can be a part of, so i don't interact with them. i don't want to mislead anyone into thinking i'm part of some social group that i'm not.
A lot of people are too young to remember how bad the furry community used to be. They had the autism-focus, so everything had to be furry, and they had trouble separating the fetishy side of it, and nobody wants to play your magical realms unless everyone agrees on it beforehand.
As a furry who grew up during that period, I'm glad the fandom has mellowed out for the most part.
That said, I still always play anthro characters when it's an option.
I never put in furry races, because I don't like them and I hate furries even more. Sometimes I do have kemonomimi races, but only for less serious games.
In Greek mythology, Sileni were people with horse ears either related to or synonymous with satyrs. Why can't they be in serious games if the myths associated with them were, as I assume, serious? And if they can, why not other people with animal ears?
Much of fantasy was inspired by myth and legend where cat-people were either rarely mentioned or outright not included. Elves, dwarves and orcs are culturally ubiquitous and when you market something most people will immediately recognize these fantasy races. The same is not really true for cat, and I suppose by extension dog people.
Dog-headed people are well-attested and ubiquitously present in Western mythology. But it doesn't matter because modern fantasy fully divorced itself from the myth. Where the hell did tiflings come from? The only example I can really think of is Merlin. And you're telling me that this garbage is now more popular than dwarves?
Tieflings are just half-devils, I don't really think they have a true mythological inspiration like dwarves and elves do. They were made specifically for an early version of DnD. As far as tieflings being more popular than dog people I think is fairly obvious; they are significantly more exotic while still maintaining a humanish look. Dogs are very common and I'd imagine if most people were given the option between a guy with a dog head v.s. a guy with purple skin and horns and a devil tail, they'd pick the latter.
>Tieflings are just half-devils
Tieflings Are Not Half Devils. They are a quarter devil at most. How many times does this need to be drilled into your fricking skulls, you moronic nitwits. This has been the lore for four fricking decades, across four different editions.
https://i.imgur.com/E1fR9Iy.jpeg
Why did cats fail to take off as a classic fantasy race in the West?
Because Science Fiction took them. Cat people are a major staple of science fiction works as weird aliens. You still see this in even modern media such as videogames with a sci fi bent, with the Mrrshan from Masters of Orion, who frequently get posted here for obvious lewd reasons.
Dog-headed people are well-attested and ubiquitously present in Western mythology. But it doesn't matter because modern fantasy fully divorced itself from the myth. Where the hell did tiflings come from? The only example I can really think of is Merlin. And you're telling me that this garbage is now more popular than dwarves?
>Dog-headed people are well-attested and ubiquitously present in Western mythology.
Besides the cynocephali, what other dogheaded people are there in "Western" myth and folklore? I cant really think of any. Discounting werewolves, there really isnt any other dog-headed peoples that are "well-attested and ubiquitous" in Western myth.
>Besides the dog-headed people, what are other dog-headed people?
Room temperature IQ comment.
Dog-headed people are present in Balkan, Italian, Eastern European folklores. That's just the examples that I know of, because I'm generally uninterested in Germanic folklore.
>How many times does this need to be drilled into your fricking skulls,
Repetition doesn't help you learn shit that's of no interest or use. No one gives a frick except the homosexuals that want to whine about them.
>half devils
Idiot. Tieflings are literally just a drop of fiend blood (demonic usually). Devilkin (The Guide To Hell) are canonically the only devil blooded mortals as Asmodeus literally has any unsanctioned devil spawn murdered along with their parents.
>Elves, dwarves >culturally ubiquitous
??????
If you're Norse or a Saxon, I guess. It just happens that the father of fantasy was really into Norsemen and Saxons.
Really, if we wanted an actual culturally ubiquitous roster of European fantasy races, it would be a mess like:
Human
Ogre/Troll
Fairy
Giant
Witch
Some kind of talking animal. Most likely a wolf or a fox.
Elves and dragons are present in different forms from China to Brazil. It's orcs that are problematic. They are an original invention of Tolkien's, and can only be called ubiquitous if you're incredibly generous with your categorisation and include ogres as orcs. Or dog-heads, for that matter. >Fairy
Here's your problem. Fairy and elf are the same thing, only the word "elf" is Germanic and "fairy" is romance.
>Elves and dragons are present in different forms from China to Brazil
dragons only when you streach the definition of what is a dragon to "big reptile creature"
elves, definitely not a thing in most cultures folklores
>only when you streach the definition of what is a dragon to "big reptile creature"
Etymologically dragons, drakes, wyverns, etc. all boil down to "big snake".
The etymology is irrelevant as snakes aren't what people think when they say dragon, this argument is just pedantry
the point is that is a wastebasket of very different creature that only share the trait of being even vaguely reptilian
1 week ago
Anonymous
>pedantry
1 week ago
Anonymous
NTA but it is what I think. Wyrm, Serpent, Dragon, etc are all angry scaley noodles with or without legs that have magic powers/abilities
>You're fricking moronic
Oh really? Always the dumbest idiots who say things like that. And that is without even addressing how you bring Tolkien into a discussion about folklore.
Goblin <= Gobelin <= Kobold <= Dwarf
Goblins aren't a folkloric universal. They are a kind of warped dwarf unique to England.
A kobold isn't a goblin, it's a separate sort of spirit.
Dwarves are, again, separate.
Goblins and kobolds are færies, but not all færies are goblins or koblods.
Dwarves are very specifically from the Norse myth and are never depicted as a sort of færie or spirit, but instead as effectively earth elementals. A Goblin is very specifically NOT a subterranean spirit and is usually malicious. A Kobold is USUALLY a subterranean spirit which is mischievous, but ultimately helpful to miners and peoples' homes as long as you treat them well.
Stop being a homosexual.
1 week ago
Anonymous
Embarrassing. At least read wikipedia before you publicly humiliate yourself like that.
1 week ago
Anonymous
Embarrassing. Try reading the actual myths before you pretend to know something that you don't.
>Norse and Germanic mythology covers pretty much all of Europe, if I recall.
About a third of it. There's also the myths of the Mediterranean and the eastern forests and steppes. But these aren't hard boundaries; stuff gets passed around.
>celts >quite forgettable
Lord of the Rings is arguably more Celtic than Germanic. The second best selling comic series of all time is Asterix.
1 week ago
Anonymous
Asterix has precious little to do with Celtic folklore, in fact, it even gets the premise wrong. The region where the Gaulish village is located was not inhabited by the Gauls, but by the Britons.
1 week ago
Anonymous
>The region where the Gaulish village is located was not inhabited by the Gauls, but by the Britons.
The Britons were also Celtic.
1 week ago
Anonymous
Uh, yeah? So? They sure as hell weren't Gauls. Have you ever read Asterix?
1 week ago
Anonymous
thats highly debateable.
For one, celtic is an exonym, celtic languages today still refer to themselves as gaelic, im no language professor but that sounds pretty similar to gaulish which IIRC is based on an endonym.
What exactly constitutes "Gauls" is pretty unclear.
Or "Britons" for that matter.
There were people with a simmilar name who were celtic living in the Alps.
1 week ago
Anonymous
>im no language professor
Yeah, I can tell. >celtic languages today still refer to themselves as gaelic
This is bullshit. Go tell that to the Welsh, the Cornish or the Bretons.
1 week ago
Anonymous
He might be wrong about that, but calling the Celts as forgettable is a very American move. I bet you forget aborigines exist too
1 week ago
Anonymous
Scotland and Ireland together have less population than Istanbul alone. The rest aren't even real countries.
1 week ago
Anonymous
didnt Tolkien himself say he specifically didnt draw from Celtic myth because he didnt find it epic enaugh?
I guess he mostly talked about island celtic but yeah, to a catholic, Irish myth probably doenst lend tiself to an epic story.
Since most of Irish Mythology is stories about Theft, murder and most prominently, cuckoldry
you are forgetting about the celts, the basques, the hungarians and the finns while lumping a bunch of groups under " Mediterranean and the eastern forests and steppes"
Goblins and mermaids make some sense, but "gnome" is just a Latin translation of "dwarf", and it's a big question whether dwarfs themselves are legitimate, because they blend together with elves in so many of the examples.
Traditional finnish gnomes (maahinen/tonttu) are described in folklore much closer to modern fantasy halfling/gnome or goblin than a dwarf.
Think of garden gnomes.
thats true for Germanic dwarves too, but note that these had undergone a lot of folklorization since christianity and their role changed to be much more bening (they probably also merged their role with "House spirits" which were common all across europe but especialy in latin regions)
Tolkien dwarves arent realy what they were depicted as in mythology anyway
I'd consider elves and faeries/fey pretty similar for all of european folklore(as originally made).
Water spirits(river, bog, lake) are pretty ubiquitous
Woods spirits of some sort
house spirits are common
some vaguely vampire like thing
temptress's that lead men to death
rock/mine/mountain people(Dwarves, kobolds, kladenets)
werewolves and other shapeshifters(selkies) are ubiquitous
plenty of chimeras
This applies to (non-monstrous) beast races as a whole. And usually you can attribute it to tolkien, which is why cat people and fox people and so on are much more present in eastern franchises (both kemonomimi and furry variant).
Only in settings that are somewhat divorced from Tolkien-inspired genre fantasy and classical myths you see them pop up, and usually done because of furry self insert reasons
More or less this. Beastfolk were not a thing in Tolkien's work, so they've yet to genuinely flourish and be counted as a western staple, even though they're technically all over the place.
This applies to (non-monstrous) beast races as a whole. And usually you can attribute it to tolkien, which is why cat people and fox people and so on are much more present in eastern franchises (both kemonomimi and furry variant).
Only in settings that are somewhat divorced from Tolkien-inspired genre fantasy and classical myths you see them pop up, and usually done because of furry self insert reasons
Yup. They aren't in Tolkien. It is that simple. The "classic fantasy races" are those that are portrayed by Tolkien. That isn't even Tolkien's fault but simply how the genre evolved after him.
You even see previous classical fantasy races such as gnomes, elves (like small Keebler elf type), and pixies getting more sidelined for Tolkien-esq portrayals.
It's a hallucination caused by drinking a shitload of psychoactive tea. Though to be fair, it's hardly the first time Batman's made out with an actual catgirl.
and on top of that you have the next popular fantasy in the west being D&D and similar games, that also use tolkien-ish races as the main player races, futher reinforcing those as THE standard in the west
>Beastfolk were not a thing in Tolkien's work,
Enhhh. People with animal attributes weren't, but fairy tale talking Animals or Human Speech understanding Animals were. There was a Fox in the super early chapters of Fellowship for the former and the latter was basically the characters of Bill the Horse and Shadowfax.
Because egyptian inspired fantasy settings were not very big, sadly. It all ended up being more nordic and celtic inspired thanks to Tolkien.
Now it's up to zoomers and gen alpha to shake off big T's mummified grasp and come up with new genre conventions.
Elves and dragons are present in different forms from China to Brazil. It's orcs that are problematic. They are an original invention of Tolkien's, and can only be called ubiquitous if you're incredibly generous with your categorisation and include ogres as orcs. Or dog-heads, for that matter. >Fairy
Here's your problem. Fairy and elf are the same thing, only the word "elf" is Germanic and "fairy" is romance.
Tolkein is just that foundational to the western fantasy genre, unlike in Japan where the range of influences is not so monolithic.
Because most of fantasy in the west are lazy attempts of copying tolkien, on top of that you have have japanese works being the first to use them and getting big making people conflate them with anime
>Tolkein Tolkeiin Tolkein
You guys are morons parroting takes you have no actual knowledge about. Most of the fantasy shtich was out there a good deal before tolkien. You ever heard of Conan? or Zothique? You know, shit that was out in the 1920s and 30's before tolkein dolled out the hobbit and way before Lord of the rings?
The landscape of modern fantasy was set out before this guy, and hell, most fantasy takes less from Tolkien's more down to earth stuff with the occasional vague magic, and more the high bombast of Ashton's Dark sorcerers, lamias, dog people and Howard's Brutal rogues, snake peoples, and taverns.
I have no idea how tolkien stands rent free in some peoples minds when his biggest fantasy influence was popularizing dwarves and elves in particular, while most of the meat and potatos of the western fantasy genre was already fully formed.
because tolkein is cohesive. his world feels defined and alive. you have languages lineages and arifacts which all intertwine in a story using his favorite literary devices from his favorite stories. he went beyond the paperback dime store books which where no doubt imaginative but really didnt compare well to a magnum opus.
thats why the king lives rent free.
Because most of fantasy in the west are lazy attempts of copying tolkien, on top of that you have have japanese works being the first to use them and getting big making people conflate them with anime
I really don't see that, actually. Star Wars and Star Trek only have cat people as incredibly minor alien races that casual fans wouldn't even be aware of. They're even more minor in Warhammer. No other property is as big as these three (and most of those others don't have cat people, either)
The mrrshan have been a core race in Masters of Orion as well.
Because they already took off as a sci-fi race, duh.
Pretty sure thats because Sci-Fi draws from conspiritardism sometimes and lyrians are a thing there.
Lizard people had the same trajectory going from Conspiritards > Sci Fi > Pulp > Fantasy
They're moderately well represented, or at least used to be. The properties you mention are two old school live action productions and a setting that's literally Fantasy in space. Of course, old Trek did put one on screen the moment they could because they were doing a cartoon.
>all monster girl have to be supernormal stimuli otherwise they're ugly.
silence coomer, I don't want to be horny, I want to be happy and she makes me happy
That's an interesting point. No one really bats an eye at lizardfolk or dragonkin or other "scalies," but it's the furred types that get people acting out of sorts.
thats decidedly not true and Kobolds in particular are basically both the annoying Oversexualized Furry tropes married to the annoying "Little people meme race" tropes.
Bastet is THE gato sexo of the ancient world. If you're doing a stereotypical fantasy adventure in not-Egypt that doesn't feature catfolk, you're doing it wrong.
Wasn't she also a goddess of frick around and find out? Where the finding out part was her turning into a lion or some other big cat to go on a murder spree until people got her too drunk to carry on?
This is true for any mythology and religion. If you go back to the Mycenaeans Greeks, you'll find out that Poisedon used to be the top god and not even god of the ocean, but of the underworld.
This is true for any mythology and religion. If you go back to the Mycenaeans Greeks, you'll find out that Poisedon used to be the top god and not even god of the ocean, but of the underworld.
Greek mythology ended up being forced transformation vore fetish porn once the Romans were done with it.
I think every town in Egypt had its own mythology, and when Akhenaton attempted to fix this mess, his temples were smashed to rubble and his priests were exiled to Israel.
Your reminder that the egyptian gods were not animal-headed people but were human-shaped people and animal-shaped people at the same time in constant physical superposition duality, although they didn't use words like superposition. From moment to moment they were their animal form or their human form as they needed to be for what they were doing. The animal head depiction is a stylization to represent this both-and state of being.
That's Sekhmet. Depending on who you ask and when, she is either the same person as Bastet, a sister, or effectively an alter ego of the same goddess she shares with Bastet, where Sekhmet is the warrior protector and Bastet is the gentler cat (even though Bastet is credited as the one who slew Apep). Either way, Sekhmet is the fighter of the two and will thus be very aggressive.
this one would be better if they didn't have Kneehigh socks and long gloves, it just shows less of the furry scale and some numbers blend in and he clearly use it as a crutch because he couldn't draw hands and feet.
>BOARDERLINE >Neko
Christ, furries are demented. The word is kemonomimi, 'neko' means cat, if you want catgirl, you want neko-musume, but normally people just refer to nekomimi, 'cat ears' as 'cat girl' in anime usually does mean 'cat beast woman' whereas nekomimi girls are just cat ears and tails. Ergo the distinction has absolutely frick all to do with 'neko', and everything to do with the 'mimi/musume' dichotomy.
At any rate only a furry would frick up such a simple fricking word as borderline, death to all furgays.
The attempt to separate them is always odd to me and mostly an online internet only thing, and even then only in certain niche circles. My eyes really got opened to it when in casual conversation with people basically conflating all animal esque people of any variety as furry or furry adjacent no matter how they look. The prevailing reasoning being if you were not degenerate in some way, a regular human would suffice as feeling otherwise is indirectly admitting the animal part is the appeal.
congratulations
you have successfully punched out my brain
i cant form a coherent rant because between the e-girl shit, the cat girl / man cat sexual dimorphism, the dumb ass blades and the FRICKING GUN
i am stumped for what to say to you
good day fellow anon
and well played
[...]
[...]
That is, unfortunately, another angle to this. Beastfolk have a certain stigma to them because of furries and all the baggage they bring with them. To some, saying your setting has beastfolk implies you accept furries, doubly so if you allow beastfolk PCs.
- furries (the bad ones, at least) hamstring the propagation of beastfolk in broader western fantasy media. They appear more often nowadays, but they're still a "take it or leave it" race compared to the more prominent staples like elves and dwarves.
Honestly with those proportions it looks more like a tiger standing, not a humanoid one but a normal one, just look at that torso.
Your reminder that the egyptian gods were not animal-headed people but were human-shaped people and animal-shaped people at the same time in constant physical superposition duality, although they didn't use words like superposition. From moment to moment they were their animal form or their human form as they needed to be for what they were doing. The animal head depiction is a stylization to represent this both-and state of being.
Well that's an interesting idea at the very least.
Cats have been disliked in the west for a long time, they only managed to get some love in the last decades thanks to internet
My question is why dog men didnt become a staple >inb4 kobolds and gnolls
those are bad guys
With cartoons and such cats were mostly bad and dogs or mice where the good guys. Tolkien also seemed to have that dogs good cats bad idea. And that's probably what inspired most D&D and what inspired the rest mostly.
i think they are getting there through Elderscrolls.
I think the only real Fantasy Races that was added to the western canon that isnt from Tolkien or Mythology are Lizardmen.
Theres some edge cases that werent in Tolkien like Gnomes or Mermaids.
The most recent contender is Tieflings/Demonpeople
cat people still seem to be fairly common in western Fantasy ever since Everquest included the VahShir
[...]
In medieval europe cats were associated with the devil and if stories are to be believes, torturing cats was a form of scapegoating
[...]
Theyre just folklore "Devils". Just like how Fairies are folklorized elves and fair folk.
[...]
Also literally part of the catholic canon.
That beeing said, they were never as culturally ubiqitous as for example "Gnomes" (as in, garden gnomes, dwarves, goblins, leprechauns, little bearded guys basically)
>Fantasy Races that was added to the western canon that isnt from Tolkien or Mythology are Lizardmen.
Excluding full monsters where more stuff is made up probably true. A fun monster type is slimes since those are also pretty modern but almost everywhere.
Here's catfolk and half-catfolk as they appear in Realms of Terrinoth, the official Genesys book for the Runebound setting (of "Descent" board game fame).
Gnomes are absolutely scuffed, no one plays them. They see less play than WarForged. At this point you might just abandon ship and start experimenting to see what else can fill the niche.
>Insect psychology makes insectoids pretty alien the vast majority of the time.
thats the cool part >Also the adding folk at the end of everything is gay.
yeah, should of just said insect races honestly.
No, it sounds super gay and makes everything sound like D&D (which is much worse than super gay). Just call them people like a normal person. Cat people, dog people.
-folk is just meant to give an old-fashioned sound. Insectoid works better, but doesn't sound like a fantasy race and instead like a sci-fi one (where they're more common).
no you add MEN
Like Lizardmen, Catmen
Because "man" refers to human.
-folk is a gay ass neologism.
You can always judge the quality of an anthropomorphic race by its denomination.
I can guarantee you the -folk version will always be gay as frick. >Lizardmen
Savage Cold blooded conquerors worshipping bloodthirsty gods, you bet yourself they ride dinosaurs >Lizardfolk
hecking wholesome chonkers swamp hillbillies who just want to live in peace with nature >verification not required
Folk and Man are both straight from PIE where they meant "people" and "to think" respectively. Folk is literally thousands of years older than man in the meaning you're using. You are braindead from losing the culture wars you make up.
1 week ago
Anonymous
>You are braindead from losing the culture wars you make up.
You're the one bringing this shit up, Anon.
1 week ago
Anonymous
Just admit you're subliterate and move on with your day.
>thats the cool part
While I agree with you it's also why they aren't more popular.
They are harder to empathize with for most on just about every level.
That's when things can get testy. Part of the social contract of most TTRPGs is the understanding and accepting of the fact that your character can, and likely will, fail at something or be compromised in some fashion. Bad self-inserts, fursona or not, aren't built for that.
Also, why is the mouse-type always presented as the engineer/mechanic? Is this just another case of "the small ones use their smarts to get ahead," or was Gadget Hackwrench from Chip 'n Dale Rescue Rangers really one of the great patron saints of furrydom?
>was Gadget Hackwrench from Chip 'n Dale Rescue Rangers really one of the great patron saints of furrydom?
in a manner of speaking yes, at least in russia
I'll see you Maid Marian from Robin Hood and raise you Krystal from Star Fox Adventures (seen her in her pre-Star Fox prototype cat form).
1 week ago
Anonymous
Or at least, an OC that looks awfully like her.
1 week ago
Anonymous
I'd say that and Marian probably.
Far more than Marian for boy was Robin himself for girls.
He was charming, funny, confident, kind and an absolute rogue with the heart of gold. All the things girls tend to like.
Kemonomimi are definitely underrated in Western Fantasy. Unfortunately the need to be "le unique" usurps actually being good in the minds of some game designers and writers.
ok but why are #29s arms so long
wolf have short limbs
too much dedication to "spooky" if you go through the trouble of making mutants you are gonna use steroids and surgical grafting to make sure their skeletons turn out right
no offset jaws crippled limbs or mismatched sockets
This one is tolerable, I prefer the more normal way of just adding a few features but this is fine as well, I can't tolerate a snout or a full animal head however.
Mainly because contires like Japan genrally have more positive legends about cats (Maneki-neko figurines, and Bakeneko are some prominate examples.). Not to mention, settings based off of feudal Japan are genrally less popular in the west unless you're into weebshit. And cat like races haven't been as prevelent in western pop culture if you aren't a furgay that is.
Pic somewhat related
Aside from appealing to the furries, all cats are buttholes therefore they would become the go-to race for That Guy so he can excuse all his antics as just being in character.
Cats have been disliked in the west for a long time, they only managed to get some love in the last decades thanks to internet
My question is why dog men didnt become a staple
>inb4 kobolds and gnolls
those are bad guys
I don't know man, it seems to me that the infatuation with dogs and loathing of cats were a Victorian England meme. When I look at my language, cats are strongly associated with terms of endearment and dogs with insults.
i think they are getting there through Elderscrolls.
I think the only real Fantasy Races that was added to the western canon that isnt from Tolkien or Mythology are Lizardmen.
Theres some edge cases that werent in Tolkien like Gnomes or Mermaids.
The most recent contender is Tieflings/Demonpeople
cat people still seem to be fairly common in western Fantasy ever since Everquest included the VahShir
In medieval europe cats were associated with the devil and if stories are to be believes, torturing cats was a form of scapegoating
Theyre just folklore "Devils". Just like how Fairies are folklorized elves and fair folk.
Also literally part of the catholic canon.
That beeing said, they were never as culturally ubiqitous as for example "Gnomes" (as in, garden gnomes, dwarves, goblins, leprechauns, little bearded guys basically)
pussy
>Cats have been disliked in the west for a long time
Entirely wrong. We have genetic evidence cats were bred in Europe as of the 1300s. The Church itself made illegal torturing cats (because it did happen, unfortunately) under guise of witch persecution in the 1650 or 1680s, dont recall which one.
Also, picrel.
>The Church itself made illegal torturing cats (because it did happen, unfortunately)
wtf
Torturing cats was unfortunately a fairly common trope throughout ancient history. The Babylonians apparently threw cats in heated cauldrons as a pass time, the way it jumped and screams is supposedly funny of you are a fricking savage, I guess. In 1300s-1600s Europe it wasn't uncommon in the more remote and less educated areas to have superstitions like nailing a black cat to your house protected you from evil. Low class folks would sometimes hunt black cats in large numbers before religious holidays, to a point where eventually the Church had to forbid the practice.
At the same time you have evidence that both common folks and nobles also kept house cats throughout Europe and the Mediterranean. Chinese and Tibetans bred cats and wrote about it 700 years ago. Japanese did the same, however they had this yokai story about cats stealing the soul of people so when someone was too much of a catgay that was a sign one of the cat he owned was a demon cat and had to be killed.
Point is, people's attitude toward cats has pretty much always been as varied as it is today, some instinctively treat them as their own toddlers while others see them as snakes wearing fur, while most are ok with sharing space with them as long as they don't have to care too much about them, and will forget them the second they are out of view.
got any sauce?
It sounds like the source is a half-remembered youtube video of a C student in history.
>Low class folks would sometimes hunt black cats in large numbers before religious holidays, to a point where eventually the Church had to forbid the practice.
Look up the history of cats and witchcraft, and then look at this description and laugh.
Should really have stopped reading after the word "trope".
World's first cat door was actually the door of a church (Exeter Cathedral, to be precise).
"there's more than one way to skin a cat" is saying for a reason
>My question is why dog men didnt become a staple
Because most men are already dogs
>My question is why dog men didn't become a staple
They were thought to be real up until the early modern period.
Dog-headed men were written about pretty extensively.
So they weren't even consitered fantasy creatures for a very long time. That might be why they don't come up as often in western fantasy proper.
As for OP's question.
Human animal hybrids were almost always monsters in western fiction. So a cat human hybrid would be seen as a demonic abomination and enemy to slay. Not a hero to aspire to.
>Human animal hybrids were almost always monsters in western fiction. So a cat human hybrid would be seen as a demonic abomination and enemy to slay. Not a hero to aspire to.
/thread
OP forgot about werewolfs, empusas, medusas and other hybrid creatures that were all monsters in western folklore
You know who else has animal features?
Angles aren't human animal hybrids dumbass.
What are birds, moron? A mushroom?
Angles aren't part bird.
Technically they aren't part human ether.
And only until the middle ages did they even start being depicted with wings to represent that they could fly.
Regardless they aren't animal human hybrids.
You got angels with wings right there in the Bible. Along with angels with bull and lion parts.
>You got angels with wings right there in the Bible
Where.
>Above him stood the seraphim. Each had six wings: with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew.
Can't believe I've been forced to post this pic for the second time in the same thread. People don't come here for discussions anymore, they come to point out how somebody is wrong when he's actually totally right.
Dude, does this look even remotely human to you?
Yes, the head is 100% human. And it's a fanciful depiction anyway, they're not described as flying heads in the Bible.
And it's a fanciful depiction anyway, they're not described as flying heads in the Bible.
It exactly matches your description and what is written in the bible about seraphim
They aren't described as humans at all.
Hell, if you want to be technically they aren't described as having heads, just faces in the passage.
>interpretation that don't follow's the description given by the book
Present a depiction you think more accurately follows the description given of seraphim.
Because it's pretty spot on.
>It exactly matches your description and what is written in the bible about seraphim
>Not covering face with two wings
>Not covering feet with two wings
can you even read ?
Do you know the meaning of the word covering?
do you ?
it's faces is completely exposed and visible, i.e. not covered
Ok, here is your seraphim
Now 100% biblically accurate.
That's how Sodom incident happened
that's a later, stylized, interpretation that don't follow's the description given by the book
These aren't angels in the Bible.
https://talesoftimesforgotten.com/2022/12/25/what-do-angels-really-look-like-according-to-the-bible/
This is nearly 50 pages worth of material and dude hasn't even gotten to talking about angles in the first 10. Instead niggling over semantics about hebrew relating to proper names for god.
I do not have the attention, care, or time for this bullshit dude.
If your source can't get to the point then it's on you to at least summarize. Because my patience is totally finished with the amount of waffling about is in what you posted and inability to ever get to the fricking point.
tldr version: What is often called "biblically accurate angels" are actually seraphim and cherubim in the prophetic books of Isaiah and Ezekiel; which are never described as "angels" in the Bible but were separate kinds of heavenly beings. Angels have typically been portrayed as relatively human figures, though likely more similar to Mesopotamian "winged genii" in the earlier texts, and with influence from Greek and Roman iconography in the New Testament.
"Angel" derives from Greek "angelos" which just means "messenger."
So anything delivering a message was an angel. The winged humans was artistic license by medieval artists trying to distinguish them from normal humans and since they tended to fly, slapped dove wings to make them look holy. And demons got bat wings because bats are scary despite demons just being angels who rebelled against god.
And speaking of making them look holy, haloes were stolen from Greek depictions of Apollo as just a heavenly glow around the head which then somehow became twisted to the golden rings above the head.
>haloes were stolen from Greek depictions of Apollo as just a heavenly glow around the head which then somehow became twisted to the golden rings above the head.
partially incorrect, halos came from angel descriptions where it is said that they were "glowing like the sun" so later artist instead of drawing them glowing they just drew the glow coming from the back of their head (much like how apollo was drew) and that later was interpreted like a halo.
I will take your word for it.
>His face is clearly exposed
>No feet at all to cover with his wings.
This is not the same as the description
you ask someone if the catgirls or whatever in their media are the result of a cat and human shagging and they will move away from you.
they arent part human and part animal genealogically.
angels arent part human. neither are any other kind of furry.
It's weird that you don't seem to be aware that you're proving his point for him. Girls with cat ears and androgynes with bird wings are the same principle of animal-person hybrid. Either they're both furry or neither of them are furry.
Don't cherubim have the face of a man, a lion, an ox, and an eagle?
That's a matter of opinion, they mixed with Saxons.
they still have a mix of human and animal traits
but since when folklore mattered for fantasy games and stories ?
Enven Tolkien races are just loosely base on their folkloric origins
>Enven Tolkien races are just loosely base on their folkloric origins
To say the very least.
>but since when folklore mattered for fantasy games and stories ?
It's been a bases and inspiration for fantasy stuff for basically ever.
Is that even a real question?
and was always heavily altered to the point where the final product had little in common with the original folklore
Not really.
There's dog boys in Rifts - they help protect the Coalition States from evil sorcerers.
Furgays insist on drawing snouts and catgirl enthusiasts want none of that shit.
That is, unfortunately, another angle to this. Beastfolk have a certain stigma to them because of furries and all the baggage they bring with them. To some, saying your setting has beastfolk implies you accept furries, doubly so if you allow beastfolk PCs.
>To some, saying your setting has beastfolk implies you accept furries, doubly so if you allow beastfolk PCs.
I mean... does it not mean exactly that?
I usually allow beast races as PCs in my game because the two women in our gaming group love playing as beast characters.
Yes, women get a free pass because they only make it weird in a fun way, not in a disgusting or pathetic way
You're a simp, my friend.
Nah man. Women roleplaying weird sex stuff at the table is objectively fine and acceptable. Sorry for not being a bitter incel I guess
Juesus Christ, have some decency, I'm dying of cringe here
Then finish the job and die properly while I imagine my player's characters in lewd scenarios
Just because your setting has beastfolk don't mean any kind of sympathy or acceptance for an online "community" that likes a tumblrfied version of then
Their perceived monopoly of the concept of any form of animal anthropomorphism is one of great shame for western fantasy
I mean, it does, to an extent, but maybe the guy who wants to play the blood raging beastfolk barbarian isn't a furry at all.
what if I make them grotesque body horror mutated beast folk?
Well, there ought to be a good reason for it, beyond spiting furries.
pathfinder did that years ago
And people still want to frick the spidercat.
I would frick her in her OG version not the cuck fantasy version.
I don't get why owlcat removed most of her unsettling features like multiple eyes
She's a romantic interest, anon. She got to be attractive, even if unconventionally.
Is there a non-ESL version of this image?
Trust me, this image was made by a white American teenager. Who wishes with all of his heart that he were black.
He'd be on board with it, though.
Look, I got started on evil spider women when I was very young.
>pathfinder
Mongrelfolk are a thing since 2e
I don't think it's that's necessarily it. A lot of people I see don't actually hate animal people, but it's more similar to dwarves in that respect most people want them as like a party member or as a race in a setting but not to actually be/play as them.
>The beastkin character (really, any non-human) is always a sidekick
Yeah, that checks out, unfortunately.
the main thing that bothers me about furries in a roleplay setting is how they always insist on furry on furry coupling which is just one step above bestiality. Why can't they just be normal and want to frick a monster girl? why do they have a fursona and want to be the monster themselfs?
>just one step above bestiality
How? By that logic wouldn't human on human be similar since we're just monkeys that are smarter and look different?
I'm using the other definition of bestiality, I'm not calling them zoophiles since you could argue the same about monster frickers, I'm calling it a depraved behavior.
based hmofa enjoyer
>By that logic wouldn't human on human be similar
Yes
because they are weak
they make a mostly human color pallet swapped nonsense monster persona. they dont even think about all the ways fur will get in their way. they think oh a wolf? it must have super strength. nevermind that even with the largest species of extant most specimens are smaller and weaker than most humans.
no
the real way to go is make a chimera or a dragon- and i mean full on claws and craning neck and spitting poison from crocodile jaws- not "oh lookit me im special cause i put on some christmas walmart reindeer antlers"
you gotta eat whole flocks of sheep
you re an economic disaster when you arent stealing the economy
you are too big to hide everyone will see you coming a mile off and they run when they do.
thats how you monster. also create horrible holf dragon abominations with everything with a pulse.
i get worked up that people might think my worldbuilding setting is furry for mostly having a beastfolk populace.
not because i hate furries, i'd gladly be a furry if i was capable of human interaction. no, i get worked up because furries are too outgoing for me, because they're not a community i can be a part of, so i don't interact with them. i don't want to mislead anyone into thinking i'm part of some social group that i'm not.
A lot of people are too young to remember how bad the furry community used to be. They had the autism-focus, so everything had to be furry, and they had trouble separating the fetishy side of it, and nobody wants to play your magical realms unless everyone agrees on it beforehand.
As a furry who grew up during that period, I'm glad the fandom has mellowed out for the most part.
That said, I still always play anthro characters when it's an option.
I never put in furry races, because I don't like them and I hate furries even more. Sometimes I do have kemonomimi races, but only for less serious games.
In Greek mythology, Sileni were people with horse ears either related to or synonymous with satyrs. Why can't they be in serious games if the myths associated with them were, as I assume, serious? And if they can, why not other people with animal ears?
In principle you could have them in a serious game, but you couldn't have have a furry snout gay character in a serious game.
What's wrong with snoots
If she doesn’t have a snoot throw her out
Much of fantasy was inspired by myth and legend where cat-people were either rarely mentioned or outright not included. Elves, dwarves and orcs are culturally ubiquitous and when you market something most people will immediately recognize these fantasy races. The same is not really true for cat, and I suppose by extension dog people.
I'm referring to Western fantasy, by the way. Forgot to make that distinction
Dog-headed people are well-attested and ubiquitously present in Western mythology. But it doesn't matter because modern fantasy fully divorced itself from the myth. Where the hell did tiflings come from? The only example I can really think of is Merlin. And you're telling me that this garbage is now more popular than dwarves?
What the hell is a "tifling"?
You know damn well what he meant.
Tieflings are just half-devils, I don't really think they have a true mythological inspiration like dwarves and elves do. They were made specifically for an early version of DnD. As far as tieflings being more popular than dog people I think is fairly obvious; they are significantly more exotic while still maintaining a humanish look. Dogs are very common and I'd imagine if most people were given the option between a guy with a dog head v.s. a guy with purple skin and horns and a devil tail, they'd pick the latter.
And yet people with long ears are picked much more frequently than either of those.
>Tieflings are just half-devils
Tieflings Are Not Half Devils. They are a quarter devil at most. How many times does this need to be drilled into your fricking skulls, you moronic nitwits. This has been the lore for four fricking decades, across four different editions.
Because Science Fiction took them. Cat people are a major staple of science fiction works as weird aliens. You still see this in even modern media such as videogames with a sci fi bent, with the Mrrshan from Masters of Orion, who frequently get posted here for obvious lewd reasons.
>Dog-headed people are well-attested and ubiquitously present in Western mythology.
Besides the cynocephali, what other dogheaded people are there in "Western" myth and folklore? I cant really think of any. Discounting werewolves, there really isnt any other dog-headed peoples that are "well-attested and ubiquitous" in Western myth.
>Besides the dog-headed people, what are other dog-headed people?
Room temperature IQ comment.
Dog-headed people are present in Balkan, Italian, Eastern European folklores. That's just the examples that I know of, because I'm generally uninterested in Germanic folklore.
They 100% appear in the German folklore.
>How many times does this need to be drilled into your fricking skulls,
Repetition doesn't help you learn shit that's of no interest or use. No one gives a frick except the homosexuals that want to whine about them.
>half devils
Idiot. Tieflings are literally just a drop of fiend blood (demonic usually). Devilkin (The Guide To Hell) are canonically the only devil blooded mortals as Asmodeus literally has any unsanctioned devil spawn murdered along with their parents.
Tiefling was used as a stand in for the Look not for the specific DnD lore
>Elves, dwarves
>culturally ubiquitous
??????
If you're Norse or a Saxon, I guess. It just happens that the father of fantasy was really into Norsemen and Saxons.
Really, if we wanted an actual culturally ubiquitous roster of European fantasy races, it would be a mess like:
Human
Ogre/Troll
Fairy
Giant
Witch
Some kind of talking animal. Most likely a wolf or a fox.
Elves and dragons are present in different forms from China to Brazil. It's orcs that are problematic. They are an original invention of Tolkien's, and can only be called ubiquitous if you're incredibly generous with your categorisation and include ogres as orcs. Or dog-heads, for that matter.
>Fairy
Here's your problem. Fairy and elf are the same thing, only the word "elf" is Germanic and "fairy" is romance.
>Elves and dragons are present in different forms from China to Brazil
dragons only when you streach the definition of what is a dragon to "big reptile creature"
elves, definitely not a thing in most cultures folklores
>only when you streach the definition of what is a dragon to "big reptile creature"
Etymologically dragons, drakes, wyverns, etc. all boil down to "big snake".
The etymology is irrelevant as snakes aren't what people think when they say dragon, this argument is just pedantry
the point is that is a wastebasket of very different creature that only share the trait of being even vaguely reptilian
>pedantry
NTA but it is what I think. Wyrm, Serpent, Dragon, etc are all angry scaley noodles with or without legs that have magic powers/abilities
>It's orcs that are problematic.
You're fricking moronic. Orc = Goblin. Orc is Elvish for Goblin.
You're thinking of specifically the Uruk Hai.
>You're fricking moronic
Oh really? Always the dumbest idiots who say things like that. And that is without even addressing how you bring Tolkien into a discussion about folklore.
Goblin <= Gobelin <= Kobold <= Dwarf
Goblins aren't a folkloric universal. They are a kind of warped dwarf unique to England.
A kobold isn't a goblin, it's a separate sort of spirit.
Dwarves are, again, separate.
Goblins and kobolds are færies, but not all færies are goblins or koblods.
Dwarves are very specifically from the Norse myth and are never depicted as a sort of færie or spirit, but instead as effectively earth elementals. A Goblin is very specifically NOT a subterranean spirit and is usually malicious. A Kobold is USUALLY a subterranean spirit which is mischievous, but ultimately helpful to miners and peoples' homes as long as you treat them well.
Stop being a homosexual.
Embarrassing. At least read wikipedia before you publicly humiliate yourself like that.
Embarrassing. Try reading the actual myths before you pretend to know something that you don't.
Norse and Germanic mythology covers pretty much all of Europe, if I recall. They all borrow gods and myths from each other anyway
>Norse and Germanic mythology covers pretty much all of Europe, if I recall.
About a third of it. There's also the myths of the Mediterranean and the eastern forests and steppes. But these aren't hard boundaries; stuff gets passed around.
You're also forgetting the celts and the fingoloids, though those are quite forgettable, so I don't blame you.
>celts
>quite forgettable
Lord of the Rings is arguably more Celtic than Germanic. The second best selling comic series of all time is Asterix.
Asterix has precious little to do with Celtic folklore, in fact, it even gets the premise wrong. The region where the Gaulish village is located was not inhabited by the Gauls, but by the Britons.
>The region where the Gaulish village is located was not inhabited by the Gauls, but by the Britons.
The Britons were also Celtic.
Uh, yeah? So? They sure as hell weren't Gauls. Have you ever read Asterix?
thats highly debateable.
For one, celtic is an exonym, celtic languages today still refer to themselves as gaelic, im no language professor but that sounds pretty similar to gaulish which IIRC is based on an endonym.
What exactly constitutes "Gauls" is pretty unclear.
Or "Britons" for that matter.
There were people with a simmilar name who were celtic living in the Alps.
>im no language professor
Yeah, I can tell.
>celtic languages today still refer to themselves as gaelic
This is bullshit. Go tell that to the Welsh, the Cornish or the Bretons.
He might be wrong about that, but calling the Celts as forgettable is a very American move. I bet you forget aborigines exist too
Scotland and Ireland together have less population than Istanbul alone. The rest aren't even real countries.
didnt Tolkien himself say he specifically didnt draw from Celtic myth because he didnt find it epic enaugh?
I guess he mostly talked about island celtic but yeah, to a catholic, Irish myth probably doenst lend tiself to an epic story.
Since most of Irish Mythology is stories about Theft, murder and most prominently, cuckoldry
you are forgetting about the celts, the basques, the hungarians and the finns while lumping a bunch of groups under " Mediterranean and the eastern forests and steppes"
I’d add gnomes, goblins and mermaids as western fantasy folklore races as well.
Goblins and mermaids make some sense, but "gnome" is just a Latin translation of "dwarf", and it's a big question whether dwarfs themselves are legitimate, because they blend together with elves in so many of the examples.
>but "gnome" is just a Latin translation of "dwarf"
it isn't, those are originally very distinct creatures that got conflated much later
Traditional finnish gnomes (maahinen/tonttu) are described in folklore much closer to modern fantasy halfling/gnome or goblin than a dwarf.
Think of garden gnomes.
thats true for Germanic dwarves too, but note that these had undergone a lot of folklorization since christianity and their role changed to be much more bening (they probably also merged their role with "House spirits" which were common all across europe but especialy in latin regions)
Tolkien dwarves arent realy what they were depicted as in mythology anyway
I'd consider elves and faeries/fey pretty similar for all of european folklore(as originally made).
Water spirits(river, bog, lake) are pretty ubiquitous
Woods spirits of some sort
house spirits are common
some vaguely vampire like thing
temptress's that lead men to death
rock/mine/mountain people(Dwarves, kobolds, kladenets)
werewolves and other shapeshifters(selkies) are ubiquitous
plenty of chimeras
>temptress's that lead men to death
That's also elves. That's what elves were best known for in Scandinavia before LotR came along.
>kladenets
I'm sorry what
I think it's some kind of woodwind instrument
No, it's a sword, but why would you mention it in this associative context anyway?
kladenet -> clarinet
WHAT DOES IT HAVE TO DO WITH THE DWARFS?
less related, but talking and setnient weapons feature through out european myth (germanic, frankish, celtic, slavic)
not so much in greco roman myth
sorry, kładenets
I'm getting zero hits on google
Because egyptian inspired fantasy settings were not very big, sadly. It all ended up being more nordic and celtic inspired thanks to Tolkien.
Now it's up to zoomers and gen alpha to shake off big T's mummified grasp and come up with new genre conventions.
Because they're pussies.
The IRL catpeople suppressed the folktales to conceal their own existence.
This applies to (non-monstrous) beast races as a whole. And usually you can attribute it to tolkien, which is why cat people and fox people and so on are much more present in eastern franchises (both kemonomimi and furry variant).
Only in settings that are somewhat divorced from Tolkien-inspired genre fantasy and classical myths you see them pop up, and usually done because of furry self insert reasons
More or less this. Beastfolk were not a thing in Tolkien's work, so they've yet to genuinely flourish and be counted as a western staple, even though they're technically all over the place.
Yup. They aren't in Tolkien. It is that simple. The "classic fantasy races" are those that are portrayed by Tolkien. That isn't even Tolkien's fault but simply how the genre evolved after him.
You even see previous classical fantasy races such as gnomes, elves (like small Keebler elf type), and pixies getting more sidelined for Tolkien-esq portrayals.
>pic
CAT SEX
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
What the frick is that? Why is Catwoman a literal cat woman now? Why does she talk like Harley Quinn? What the hell happened to Batman?
It's a hallucination caused by drinking a shitload of psychoactive tea. Though to be fair, it's hardly the first time Batman's made out with an actual catgirl.
and on top of that you have the next popular fantasy in the west being D&D and similar games, that also use tolkien-ish races as the main player races, futher reinforcing those as THE standard in the west
>Beastfolk were not a thing in Tolkien's work,
Enhhh. People with animal attributes weren't, but fairy tale talking Animals or Human Speech understanding Animals were. There was a Fox in the super early chapters of Fellowship for the former and the latter was basically the characters of Bill the Horse and Shadowfax.
>Tolkein Tolkeiin Tolkein
You guys are morons parroting takes you have no actual knowledge about. Most of the fantasy shtich was out there a good deal before tolkien. You ever heard of Conan? or Zothique? You know, shit that was out in the 1920s and 30's before tolkein dolled out the hobbit and way before Lord of the rings?
The landscape of modern fantasy was set out before this guy, and hell, most fantasy takes less from Tolkien's more down to earth stuff with the occasional vague magic, and more the high bombast of Ashton's Dark sorcerers, lamias, dog people and Howard's Brutal rogues, snake peoples, and taverns.
I have no idea how tolkien stands rent free in some peoples minds when his biggest fantasy influence was popularizing dwarves and elves in particular, while most of the meat and potatos of the western fantasy genre was already fully formed.
>You ever heard of Conan?
Show me all the elves, orcs, halflings, and dwarves in Conan.
So tell us why the main races that people think when comes to fantasy, and are used ad nauseum in fantasy midia, are Elves Dwarves and Orcs ?
because tolkein is cohesive. his world feels defined and alive. you have languages lineages and arifacts which all intertwine in a story using his favorite literary devices from his favorite stories. he went beyond the paperback dime store books which where no doubt imaginative but really didnt compare well to a magnum opus.
thats why the king lives rent free.
Tolkein is just that foundational to the western fantasy genre, unlike in Japan where the range of influences is not so monolithic.
Because most of fantasy in the west are lazy attempts of copying tolkien, on top of that you have have japanese works being the first to use them and getting big making people conflate them with anime
six nipples is three too many.
Americans are too puritan for a race that's obviously designed for sex appeal, and the rest of the west just follows America's lead.
If you look at a cat and immediately think "sex appeal", I have bad news for you. Elves seem much better suited for sex appeal.
>If you look at a cat and immediately think "sex appeal"
Black person, it's literally called "pussy". It's way too late for this.
Because they already took off as a sci-fi race, duh.
Space operas are a pretty reliable place to find beastfolk, yes.
I really don't see that, actually. Star Wars and Star Trek only have cat people as incredibly minor alien races that casual fans wouldn't even be aware of. They're even more minor in Warhammer. No other property is as big as these three (and most of those others don't have cat people, either)
There were quite a few, actually.
Twilight Imperium features lionfolk specifically as one of its flagship races.
The mrrshan have been a core race in Masters of Orion as well.
Pretty sure thats because Sci-Fi draws from conspiritardism sometimes and lyrians are a thing there.
Lizard people had the same trajectory going from Conspiritards > Sci Fi > Pulp > Fantasy
They're moderately well represented, or at least used to be. The properties you mention are two old school live action productions and a setting that's literally Fantasy in space. Of course, old Trek did put one on screen the moment they could because they were doing a cartoon.
>izutsumi
shes my ideal furry to human ratio, not too human not too furry, peak monster girl performance.
And she's also the farthest you could be from a sex appeal character, in spite of being a cat girl.
nah mate
>breasts are so covered by the fluff that the panel appears uncensored in a PG-13 comic
Wow, such sex appeal
I'm not really a breasts guy so I'd shag anyway
thats the fricking joke dipshit (The actual punchline is cutout)
i could pour ammonia into your skull and no one would notice the difference
>all monster girl have to be supernormal stimuli otherwise they're ugly.
silence coomer, I don't want to be horny, I want to be happy and she makes me happy
Needs a snoot t b h
ahem
ELDER
SCROLLS
elder scrolls belongs to the scalies
The argonian maid was just a silly joke in the form of a smutty in game novel.
Khajiit ladies on the other hand were much more prominent, as seen with pretty kitty, Ahnassi and pic related
I wonder if nords would be as receptive to khajiits if somebody told them that those are just very hairy elves.
That's an interesting point. No one really bats an eye at lizardfolk or dragonkin or other "scalies," but it's the furred types that get people acting out of sorts.
thats decidedly not true and Kobolds in particular are basically both the annoying Oversexualized Furry tropes married to the annoying "Little people meme race" tropes.
If dragonborn were naturally-born scalies, kobolds wouldn't be nearly as popular as they are.
Go back to your district Dunmer scum!
Yes, we know Elder Scrolls is a prominent example of a fantasy setting with a beastfolk race.
technically 3, the fox people died out before the events of the games
Todd is a furry, but Bethesda has gone to shit, Larian is dominating RPGs now and Sven is undoubtedly a scalie
Undoubtedly.
Elves are either carnivorous psychos or responsible for a lot of the Daedra invasions
Because Bastet was the Egyptian goddess of sex and fertility, among other things?
SMITE version.
that isnt half bad as far as bait goes
they did the GATO SEXO meme a few thousand years ago already? damn
Bastet is THE gato sexo of the ancient world. If you're doing a stereotypical fantasy adventure in not-Egypt that doesn't feature catfolk, you're doing it wrong.
Bastet/Sekmet (cat/lioness), Wadjet (snake) and Hathor (cow) were all sex animal goddesses in Egypt.
>Egypt
The e621 of the ancient world
Wasn't she also a goddess of frick around and find out? Where the finding out part was her turning into a lion or some other big cat to go on a murder spree until people got her too drunk to carry on?
Egyptian mythology gets loosy-goosy at times and tends to warp over time.
This is true for any mythology and religion. If you go back to the Mycenaeans Greeks, you'll find out that Poisedon used to be the top god and not even god of the ocean, but of the underworld.
Greek mythology ended up being forced transformation vore fetish porn once the Romans were done with it.
I think every town in Egypt had its own mythology, and when Akhenaton attempted to fix this mess, his temples were smashed to rubble and his priests were exiled to Israel.
Bastet is credited as the one who slew the serpent Apep, who tried to devour her father, Ra, every time he flew across the sky.
Sand cats prey on snakes.
Your reminder that the egyptian gods were not animal-headed people but were human-shaped people and animal-shaped people at the same time in constant physical superposition duality, although they didn't use words like superposition. From moment to moment they were their animal form or their human form as they needed to be for what they were doing. The animal head depiction is a stylization to represent this both-and state of being.
...well?
That's Sekhmet. Depending on who you ask and when, she is either the same person as Bastet, a sister, or effectively an alter ego of the same goddess she shares with Bastet, where Sekhmet is the warrior protector and Bastet is the gentler cat (even though Bastet is credited as the one who slew Apep). Either way, Sekhmet is the fighter of the two and will thus be very aggressive.
Because western artists gravitate towards 3 for some reason, while easterners generally gravitate to 1-2 or 4-5.
2 is peak
I think a bit more detail and rigor is needed
>"Boarderline"(sic) furry is past the furry line
>only visual difference from the previous one is claw hands
And the dot nose, don't forget that. It marks the difference between a nose and a snout.
It only says nose so I assume it's more like the aliens from Avatar or the Mithra from Final Fantasy rather than a full on protruding snout.
this one would be better if they didn't have Kneehigh socks and long gloves, it just shows less of the furry scale and some numbers blend in and he clearly use it as a crutch because he couldn't draw hands and feet.
>BOARDERLINE
>Neko
Christ, furries are demented. The word is kemonomimi, 'neko' means cat, if you want catgirl, you want neko-musume, but normally people just refer to nekomimi, 'cat ears' as 'cat girl' in anime usually does mean 'cat beast woman' whereas nekomimi girls are just cat ears and tails. Ergo the distinction has absolutely frick all to do with 'neko', and everything to do with the 'mimi/musume' dichotomy.
At any rate only a furry would frick up such a simple fricking word as borderline, death to all furgays.
>obviously made by a weeb
>all this weeb projecting
>fur colored skin
Fricking hell just draw a human if you don't want to draw all the fur.
The attempt to separate them is always odd to me and mostly an online internet only thing, and even then only in certain niche circles. My eyes really got opened to it when in casual conversation with people basically conflating all animal esque people of any variety as furry or furry adjacent no matter how they look. The prevailing reasoning being if you were not degenerate in some way, a regular human would suffice as feeling otherwise is indirectly admitting the animal part is the appeal.
congratulations
you have successfully punched out my brain
i cant form a coherent rant because between the e-girl shit, the cat girl / man cat sexual dimorphism, the dumb ass blades and the FRICKING GUN
i am stumped for what to say to you
good day fellow anon
and well played
Catfolk are a thing, but they never took off because of furgays.
That goes back to
- furries (the bad ones, at least) hamstring the propagation of beastfolk in broader western fantasy media. They appear more often nowadays, but they're still a "take it or leave it" race compared to the more prominent staples like elves and dwarves.
One of the oldest art pieces is a 40.000 old anthro lion
Beastfolk are the OG fantasy race
they were most likely gods and the proto-Egyptian deities.
if thats furry then all ancient religion is furry.
Depend on the definition of furry, if it's just anthropomorphic animals or human-animal mix
than they were
Honestly with those proportions it looks more like a tiger standing, not a humanoid one but a normal one, just look at that torso.
Well that's an interesting idea at the very least.
With cartoons and such cats were mostly bad and dogs or mice where the good guys. Tolkien also seemed to have that dogs good cats bad idea. And that's probably what inspired most D&D and what inspired the rest mostly.
>Fantasy Races that was added to the western canon that isnt from Tolkien or Mythology are Lizardmen.
Excluding full monsters where more stuff is made up probably true. A fun monster type is slimes since those are also pretty modern but almost everywhere.
Yeah I was specifically talking about humanoid races. But yeah slimes are a good contender, as are mimics
I like to include cat ladies in my setting so I can pair them up with humans
Here's catfolk and half-catfolk as they appear in Realms of Terrinoth, the official Genesys book for the Runebound setting (of "Descent" board game fame).
Big cat women > small cat girls
I still think that replacing all gnomes (and arguably halflings) with cute and pettable furry races would be a great improvement
Gnomes are absolutely scuffed, no one plays them. They see less play than WarForged. At this point you might just abandon ship and start experimenting to see what else can fill the niche.
Arguments about smallfolk are a thread unto themselves. That said, it wouldn't be the first time someone suggested beastfolk smallfolk.
I take everything I said back, frick vulperra, I would play only gnomes for the rest of my life if I could never see this abomination again.
Wait, what's wrong with vulperra? They're just fennec fox beastfolk.
But that would force the magic empire to stop using gnomes as currency because they would start being hoarded as collectables
I would prefer more insectfolk races honestly, criminally underrated.
Insect psychology makes insectoids pretty alien the vast majority of the time.
Also the adding folk at the end of everything is gay.
>Insect psychology makes insectoids pretty alien the vast majority of the time.
thats the cool part
>Also the adding folk at the end of everything is gay.
yeah, should of just said insect races honestly.
Adding -folk or -kin or -blood usually denotes a humanoid phenotype of that thing compared to, y'know, the actual thing.
ok then insectkin, sounds better than insectfolk.
regardless I want more insect based humanoids in my fantasy settings.
No, it sounds super gay and makes everything sound like D&D (which is much worse than super gay). Just call them people like a normal person. Cat people, dog people.
-folk is just meant to give an old-fashioned sound. Insectoid works better, but doesn't sound like a fantasy race and instead like a sci-fi one (where they're more common).
Yeah, -oid is for sci-fi, especially since we already have androids and the like there.
>-folk is just meant to give an old-fashioned sound
One might even say folksy
one might say shut up Carlos
no you add MEN
Like Lizardmen, Catmen
Because "man" refers to human.
-folk is a gay ass neologism.
You can always judge the quality of an anthropomorphic race by its denomination.
I can guarantee you the -folk version will always be gay as frick.
>Lizardmen
Savage Cold blooded conquerors worshipping bloodthirsty gods, you bet yourself they ride dinosaurs
>Lizardfolk
hecking wholesome chonkers swamp hillbillies who just want to live in peace with nature
>verification not required
Folk and Man are both straight from PIE where they meant "people" and "to think" respectively. Folk is literally thousands of years older than man in the meaning you're using. You are braindead from losing the culture wars you make up.
>You are braindead from losing the culture wars you make up.
You're the one bringing this shit up, Anon.
Just admit you're subliterate and move on with your day.
Yet somehow my observation holds true
>thats the cool part
While I agree with you it's also why they aren't more popular.
They are harder to empathize with for most on just about every level.
They have no psychology, they have the psychological complexity of a microwave oven.
If telling yourself that helps you sleep at night.
Because they weren't in LotR
Also because furries and no ine wanting to be associated with them
>thread derail about semantic bullshit no one cares about
well it was fun while it lasted.
Because another conversation about cat girls was so simulating.
Blame furry culture. Its more accepted now but back in the day NOBODY wanted anyone putting their fursona in the game.
A fursona is just a self-insert, anyway.
and more often than not Mary sues as well.
That's when things can get testy. Part of the social contract of most TTRPGs is the understanding and accepting of the fact that your character can, and likely will, fail at something or be compromised in some fashion. Bad self-inserts, fursona or not, aren't built for that.
Also, why is the mouse-type always presented as the engineer/mechanic? Is this just another case of "the small ones use their smarts to get ahead," or was Gadget Hackwrench from Chip 'n Dale Rescue Rangers really one of the great patron saints of furrydom?
>was Gadget Hackwrench from Chip 'n Dale Rescue Rangers really one of the great patron saints of furrydom?
in a manner of speaking yes, at least in russia
I'd say that and Marian probably.
Who?
From Disney's Robin Hood.
I'll see you Maid Marian from Robin Hood and raise you Krystal from Star Fox Adventures (seen her in her pre-Star Fox prototype cat form).
Or at least, an OC that looks awfully like her.
Far more than Marian for boy was Robin himself for girls.
He was charming, funny, confident, kind and an absolute rogue with the heart of gold. All the things girls tend to like.
and i quote
"and the way he didnt wear pants"
>was Gadget Hackwrench from Chip 'n Dale Rescue Rangers really one of the great patron saints of furrydom
Yes.
that's look more like normies being moronic and incapable of separate fantasy from reality
too sexy.
every setting with em would've just becomes an ERP game if they added them.
>tfw no fat mischievous cat girl to go on misadventures with
le sad
>pic
You store wine at cool temperatures, there are many wines you are suppose to drink at room temp
Fricking north American mind set.
we beat the french
we make the wine rules now
shut up and drink, i will add more ice to your glass as i see fit.
Room temp is not body temp you swine.
Not enough people are aware that rakshasa are some of the most diabolical BBEGs you can put into a game
Even fewer people are aware that rakshasas are ogre-looking daemons and not furries at all. I fricking hate D&D.
They were just far too radical for us to entertain previously. Only now are we advanced enough as a collective civilisation to appreciate them.
Izutsumi my beloved
Kemonomimi are definitely underrated in Western Fantasy. Unfortunately the need to be "le unique" usurps actually being good in the minds of some game designers and writers.
I make the females full furry and the males kemonomimi.
That will show 'em
I'll bang them both.
Because catgirls belong in Scifi. They're part of a glorious, shining future of jetpacks, flying cars and catgirls built for domestic ownership.
Okay, but left of right for sci-fi catgirls?
Would both
Left becomes the right after a year of service
both, as the same species, and make the player roll for it
#29 shows some promise, but I think we can consider this batch a failure. Back to the drawing board, folks. We'll get her next time.
ok but why are #29s arms so long
wolf have short limbs
too much dedication to "spooky" if you go through the trouble of making mutants you are gonna use steroids and surgical grafting to make sure their skeletons turn out right
no offset jaws crippled limbs or mismatched sockets
>40k brainrot
40kid attempts at humour should be classified as a crime against humanity.
40k has no way out of the abyss it had commissioned and then jumped into
Not a huge fan of cat or dog or what have you people, due to furries.
He could be talking about English. Son of a b***h, kitten, etc.
This one is tolerable, I prefer the more normal way of just adding a few features but this is fine as well, I can't tolerate a snout or a full animal head however.
Gatto sexo
Zorro sexo
I am a simple man
Mainly because contires like Japan genrally have more positive legends about cats (Maneki-neko figurines, and Bakeneko are some prominate examples.). Not to mention, settings based off of feudal Japan are genrally less popular in the west unless you're into weebshit. And cat like races haven't been as prevelent in western pop culture if you aren't a furgay that is.
Pic somewhat related
Aside from appealing to the furries, all cats are buttholes therefore they would become the go-to race for That Guy so he can excuse all his antics as just being in character.
Thank goodness there's no fantasy races like that now...
Izutsumi in heat when?
I wish all furhomosexuals a very merry bite the curb
Ganker really wants to talk about Izutsumi today.
Because nobody ever wrote anything with them in it.
The west mostly is after beautiful and cool things. Cats are neither. They are cute and cute is very low on the priority list.
>tattoos
Gross
damn
thats some quality cosplay
Too associated with modernity and modern settings.