Why did Sony and Sega not have the intelligence and foresight to add this feature to their 3D console on launch? Why was it up to Nintendo to define the standards again?
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Because Sony and Sega released their console 2 whole years earlier when 4th gen game design was at its peak and they essentially walked so that Nintendo could also walk later on.
But they at least had the foresight not to make their analog sticks shitty and prone to failure at least.
>they essentially walked so that Nintendo could also walk later on.
That is wrong, Jaguar, 3do and cd-i had already come out and did all that first before Saturn and Playstation, they had no reason why they couldn't have learned from their mistakes but didn't.
>Jaguar, 3do and cd-i had already come out and
died.
That's not the point of the thread is it? By the time Saturn and Playstation came out 3d had been attempted before many times and there were many shortcomings that neither company tried to address until after nintendo brought in the joystick as a default not as an add on, optional controller option but to make games built with it in mind, as the default, which changed how 3d games were designed and the quality of them.
A simple change and foresight can have large implications on games, are you really going to ignore those changes and for what reason?
What does the virtual boy have to do with 3d gaming and joysticks? And those consoles are only "joke" consoles because they failed and it's to dismiss them after the fact.
>That's not the point of the thread is it?
What is the point of the thread? You shitting on Sony because you're a fanboy?
Nintendo put the joystick because they had to make Mario good or else no one would buy their shitbox. That's it
Why are you so personally butthurt that nintendo raised the bar of 3d gaming? You take that fact that no one can possibly dispute, as a personal attack and then try to place that success onto someone else, you're ridiculous.
> there were many shortcomings that neither company tried to address
Sony didn’t produce first-party software in the same way as Nintendo, and Sega was focused on bringing 3D arcade games to Saturn. Namco was basically first-party for Sony then, and they were also focused on arcades. Nintendo was focused on bing bong wahoo simulators for children, so they put all their effort into that.
So, you can't dispute OP's point then but are angry of the reality of the situation?
I am not angry that Nintendo made a platform for bing bong wahoo simulators for children, no
>made a platform for bing bong wahoo simulators for children
You clearly sound angry.
That’s all you. I accept and acknowledge what N64 was.
>Sega was focused on bringing 3D arcade games to Saturn
Including racing games, which benefit from analogue control
In 1995 Saturn had a racing wheel and PS1 had the neGcon.
>Including racing games, which benefit from analogue control
Sega did release an official racing wheel at launch for the console. The 3D NiGHTS pad was technically released after the N64 pad in Japan, but was released before the N64 pad in North America and other regions. But was always Sega's response to the N64 pad. The NiGHTS 3D pad also has a racing wheel mode that worked with any Saturn racer that supported the racing wheel.
Neither were packed-in with the Saturn, like a 3D controller was with the 64, so 90% of games weren't made with analog movement in mind unlike with the 64.
And this admission is coming from someone that thinks the Saturn's 3D Control Pad is one of the best controllers ever made
>That's not the point of the thread is it?
The point of the thread was that Sony and Sega didn't do what multiple other companies tried and failed to do right before they released their own consoles. Maybe the gamble wasn't worth it in 1994. People didn't even know how to make games around, or play games on analog sticks until 1997, a whole year after the N64 came out. If it wasn't for the bonus of a known IP with Mario 64, people would've dismissed it even more than they already did at the time since the controller was largely considered dogshit.
>joke consoles
well if we're including those we have to also include nintendo's virtual boy
>But they at least had the foresight not to make their analog sticks shitty and prone to failure at least.
Playstation joysticks failed all the time you spastic. I remember little bits of the rubber pad literally rubbing off onto my thumb after a while as I used it. Shit was disgusting. There was all kinds of stick drift too.
>bits of the rubber pad literally rubbing off onto my thumb after a while as I used it
Superficial damage is not the same as the N64 stick literally shaving itself off and becoming unusable.
Did you miss the rest of my post? All dual shock controllers get floppy joysticks and drift with wear. N64 joysticks will last exactly as long unless you're playing moronic mario party minigames on a mcdonald's kiosk.
hahaha wtf
Are you talking about dual analog or dualshock?
Cause my dualshock has only suffered a tiny and occasional drift and the rubber never wore off, I use the same one to this day.
I never used a dual analog though.
>Cause my dualshock has only suffered a tiny and occasional drift and the rubber never wore off, I use the same one to this day.
So you don't actually play video games with it.
there is no argument there.
Yu Suzuki had the idea for the Playstation in 1985, seeing 3D software that Sony had sold to a television channel to create its credits, jingles, etc.
When Yu Suzuki approached Japanese developers in 1993-94, he highlighted the 3D capabilities of the Playstation.
When the Playstation was released, Sony refused to publish its own game (Arc The Lad) outside of Japan because it was not in 3D.
and the guys are waiting for Nintendo to present its N64 to finally decide to put joysticks in 1997.
>So why didn't Sony add a joystick when the Playstation was released?
>Yu Suzuki had the idea for the Playstation in 1985
What bizarro timeline are you from?
I want say Ken Kutaragi !!!
It was new and uncertain. Nintendo made the weird trident controller in an attempt to hedge their bets. In case the joystick didn't work out you could move your hand over and use the dpad.
The industry was resistant to moving to 3D as a whole until hits like Virtua Fighter showed the way forward
>using virtua fighter as a positive example
And look where that series is now
Doesn’t matter, it was a trailblazer at the time
Really paving the way for 3d
go away zoom zoom
I accept your concession, grampa
so much for the future of 3D
>sp**drunner footage
False equivalence
you can find lots of glitches in games from the time if you look for edge cases, which proves exactly nothing
Virtua Fighter has never had a bad game. You sound like the kind of guy who claims that it's bad if a game doesn't get 500 DLC updates because that means the devs aren't supporting the game.
Virtua Fighter was never a 3D game. It's a 2D game, that happens to have 3D graphics. Sega fans/weebs have such a laughably conservative view on 3D gaming where they think any 2D game with polygonal graphics is 3D. This of course is a far cry from something like Doom or Mario 64.
wrong. your cardinal movement is locked to an axis but there's 3d hit detection.
Nintendo had to make Mario in 3d. This was priority #1 for them and probably one of the first things they started research on. Sony wasn't like that, they were all about the audiovisual aspect
So it's not surprising that for one the controller was a big focus and for the other it wasn't as much
>Sony wasn't like that, they were all about the audiovisual aspect
still are, actual video games simply aren't a priority for them
You say that but
N64 - 388 games
PS1 - 4100 games
Which console has video games? Hahahahahaha
Both, according to you. But the anon you replied to said all 4100 of those "games" are basically just movies.
The anon you are referring to is salty the N64 was a failure
The N64 wasn't a failure though, and is still popular today because it was a success. No need to project, brand loyalist, as the PS1 was obviously also not a failure either.
The Dreamcast is still popular today, cause you know, some people bought the wrong console and ended up stuck with it. Doesn't mean it wasn't a failure. N64 is no different, sorry to inform
The N64 lasted 5 years (without it tanking the company). The Dreamcast was also popular, but sadly died early. No need to get upset that PS1 wasn't the only successful console, anon.
Well at least it didn't tank the company. That means it was a success. It's definitely a lot like the Gamecube in that way! Let's ask Nintendo what they think about competing directly with Sony and how that went for them. Wait we don't need to ask them, we know what happened
You really sound upset and deranged. Relax.
>no argument
Exactly
I could say the Gamecube was a small success because it made Nintendo money and because it created franchises and specific games that they still appeal to, today, but you keep getting upset and can't bear it when I bring up something like that. This is why you need to relax.
That's the same as saying a loss is a win because it's a learning experience. That's about the amount of copium you're on
>if you make money from selling things, you lose
Doing worse than others and still succeeding at the same goal is not a loss. Consoles that lost money to the point of killing their manufacturer is a loss.
That's not how it works, buddy. You have to satisfy stockholders, you have to see steady growth otherwise yes you are failing and should be doing something else. Why am I even arguing this with you, this stuff is well-known to everyone, it was the beginning of the new age of Nintendo moving to a different business model. You're just mad and can't accept it
I'm happy with probably all of the consoles brought up in this thread though, including PS1.
>I'm happy
Ok. Well if you're happy, then that's a success for Nintendo
>Nintendo is proven to suck since my personal attack failed
Mental illness.
>strawman
I didn't say Nintendo sucks.
You are really bad at arguing, but as long as you're happy, anything is a success
All the personal attacks and deflections from the analog movement topic prove you are not mad (at hearing that Nintendo inspired some things you enjoy).
That's weird, I used analog movement in games before the N64 existed. I wonder how
Not as a standard (you had to buy that separately, and few games for the console support it). Do you know what standard means, or are you dancing around it with your off-topic ramblings because you can't bear to hear about the N64 in any sort of positive light?
Oh my bad. Ok let me try this one, maybe this one counts
Individual arcade game. Are PS1 and N64 home consoles or arcade cabs? Just give up, homosexual.
>standardized analog movement
>well actually standardized analog movement that you don't have to buy separately
>well actually i mean standardized analog movement that you HAVE to buy for your home specifically
idk man, i thnk you're the homosexual here personally
But the topic was always analog movement in console games being standardized (not invented by) the N64's library because of its controller. You've tried to move to the goalpost from that to face buttons, three hands, failing, analog controllers existing prior to the N64's, and other shit to avoid dealing with a fact that you can't deal with: that the N64 is responsible for standardizing something that you enjoy playing on non-N64 hardware
So what proof exactly do you have that N64 standardized it? If we've already established it didn't invent it, and that the console was a failure or close to it, why is it that it standardized it? Because Mario 64 was really good? That's not really proof of anything
Glad you're finally addressing the topic. It's because 3D platformers, FPS, and sports games started using analog movement as a standard after the N64 started doing that, especially regarding Mario 64 most likely, yeah (regardless of whether or not it was "really good").
Why did they stop? Having two digital triggers and two analog triggers is peak (like the original Wii Classic Controller had, though sadly never utilized).
That's arbitrary. Other genres were already doing it, therefore why is those genres specifically that make it standardized? Not to mention that arcade games were using joysticks long before the NShitty4. Explain your nonsense logic
Imagine using this to control anything but a simulator.
>it was the beginning of the new age of Nintendo moving to a different business model
yeah, i remember nintendo's outrageous post-n64 shift to....making consoles and video games. completely new territory for them.
After the GameCube Nintendo changed. They stop to focus on performance. And that's how they crushed the concurrence.
>Why did nintendo not have the intelligence and foresight to add this feature to their 3D console on launch? Why was it up to Sony and Sega to define the standard?
There are tons of "N64 3D platformers" on PS2, anon, even from Sony themselves.
they thought gamers wouldn't put up with the load times
OP would be banned by now if this was still good /vr/
Because like most things nintendrones lie about, nintendo took it from somebody else.
>moving the goalposts
Everyone is always mentioning how that 3D Atari controller that no one bought (or knows even existed) inspired FPS and polygonal platformers.
*analog FPS games (including Medal of Honor on PS1)
That has got to be the shittiest looking controller I've ever seen.
Anon, that's a d-pad with a stick on it.
That's not Analog-based though.
Atari 5200 and GCE had 'em before N64, really.
>Because like most things nintendrones lie about, nintendo took it from somebody else.
Most of the Sega Master System gamepads had the option for a screw-on thumb stick, too. There were also many third party NES gamepads that had this. I know I had a few.
>Why was it up to Nintendo to define the standards again?
OP btfo
The Master System controller is the GOAT though. Nothing comes close to that big meaty inny aureola D pad.
Once again, the truth provokes seething
Gives us Dates homosexual
Sega and Sony treated it as an extension of 4th gen, so basically the same games but with a few polygons added.
The saturn pad is just an updated 6 button genesis controller
The Playstation pad is a SNES controller with triggers and handles
Nintendo wanted to do something new, but even then they hesitated bigtime (reason for the trident design and that the analog stick isn't even in the primary position)
The analogue stick was the Nintendo 'gimmick' of 5th gen and when the early N64 games showed the world what it can do, the others followed without hesitation.
>Why did Sega not have the intelligence and foresight to add this feature to their 3D console on launch
Sega barely had a 3D console at launch
>Why was it up to Nintendo to define the standards again?
wtf are you talking about? Modern controllers are 1:1 copies of the Dualshock
>Modern controllers are 1:1 copies of the Dualshock
Do stupid people actually believe this?
What modern controller require you to have 3 hands moron?
Sega copied the N64 single stick layout and it bombed. MS and Nintendo shamelessly ripped off the Dualshock because it's a better layout.
>What modern controller require you to have 3 hands moron?
No controller has ever required you to have 3 hands.
>What modern controller require you to have 3 hands
If you couldn't figure out the N64 controller (which had a button on the back of it to show you how to hold it), you are either legitimately moronic or are underage and are trying to fit in. And the Xbox controller took inspiration from the N64 controller via its neutral analog placement, regardless that thinking about Nintendo doing something influential makes you moronicly upset.
>MS and Nintendo shamelessly ripped off the Dualshock because it's a better layout.
Do you not know what 1:1 means?
Even if I grant your idiotic hyperbole, the Xbox controller has more similarities to Saturn/Dreamcast than it does to PS1.
The Duke is just a shitty bloated dualshock with inverted stick placement moron
You might be clinically moronic.
Pretty sure the guy picking console war fights is the clinically moronic guy here. You'd be banned already if the mods did anything
why are you talking in second person?
Dualshock didn't even have 6 face buttons
Where are those two controllers now? In the history books
single stick controller vs dual stick controller aka dual shock rip off.
That fricking moron.
The original pad of Playstation and others DualShock are just Snes Pad !!
The original pad of the Playstation is a Snes Pad with L2/R2 and grip !
you don't even use the d-pad in modern games. Sony created the modern controller layout when they invented the dual shock and no amount of cope will change that.
and today Sony still doesn't know that the majority of games are in 3d. when will there be a joystick in the thumb axis??
https://www.playstationlifestyle.net/2013/10/21/sony-tested-xbox-style-analog-stick-placement-for-dualshock-4-denied-wii-u-gamepad-analog-stick-setup/
The PS4 and PS5 controllers feel slightly better when it comes to their analog stick placement, even though it's still a (baked-in) problem with the brand's layout.
PlayStation 3D games are an afterthought because the initial controller was a clone of the 2D SNES pad before they were forced to awkwardly bolt on sticks in the only remaining areas.
What's the problem there? They all have the thumb rested in the stick. Nintendo expected you to have 3 hands with the N64 LOL that thing is ready to fall off to the side
The thumb is reaching for the stick in the Playstation examples, unlike every other controller in that pic. The three hand is a forced meme you desperately keep going back to because Mario 64 will never stop existing (like your XY chromosomes).
all in the thumb axis except those from Sony.
>N64
lol, you're so stupid that you still don't understand that there was a 2D games position and a 3D games position.
Pictures please.
>Pictures
There's only a single example.
Which ?
Wii Classic Controller Pro
ah, and they continued with it?
The wii classic controller only followed the sony layout because it was primarily a 2D controller. The sony layoutbis just suboptimal and sony refuses to revise their antiquated design for god knows why
The Xbox layout is inferior
>I enjoy eating shit
Yes you do
Xbox is in 3rd place for a reason
Sony is in 2nd place these days, means their controller is no longer the standard
Nintendo doesn't even place, they don't have a next gen device
Even more embarassing, the PS5 gets curbstomped by 2015 era tablet hardware. How the mighty have fallen.
And it curbstomped the PS4, and the PS6 right? Cause that makes sense. The only thing Switch can't curbstomp: shitty graphics
>PS6
Now you are assuming they will even bother to make a successor...
But still, Sony's current market share is less than 25%, not a standard by any definition
It's because it was a pain in the ass to make it works under Windows. Sony should have produced drivers.
There is a genuine large group that prefers the xbox layout.
Only reason I even have a sony styled controller is that I prefer it for 2D games.
>There is a genuine large group that prefers the xbox layout.
Yes, but it doesn't change the fact that for too many years the XBox controller was the only one working on Windows. You had to sell your soul to the devil to make a Sony controller works on Windows. People get used to the XBox layout. It became the standard because of that. The stick placements is a detail, it's just a bad faith argument in the console war.
Both the Dreamcast and Gamecube did it already before the xbox (and even the Saturn 3d pad, but nobody owned that thing or a Saturn)
For the PS2, Sony just stuck with their original design (that was just two sticks slapped on the OG controller) as they were too afraid to alienate their existing users
Yes. I'm happy with my sticks position. I don't want Sony to change it.
>all in the thumb axis
There is nothing wrong with the position of those sticks. They're comfortably well within the limits of a thumb's movement, evidence by the way most of the controllers in the image have inputs within similar ranges.
If there was something wrong with it, Sony would have changed it within the past 4 gens, Nintendo wouldn't have copied them with their Pro controllers, and games like Halo, CoD, and Gears, wouldn't have kept Xbox systems relevant considering their identical right stick placement.
>Nintendo wouldn't have copied them with their Pro controllers
The Wii classic (pro) controllers were designed for primarily 2D games. Not a good argument
Of course, that's why they bundled it with trad 2D games like Goldeneye and Monster Hunter, you moron.
Now ignore all the Nintendo pro controllers that copy Sony layout. Kek
>Sony created the modern controller layout for the playstation brand
Sure, except that every other company puts the left analog in the primary position though. Microsoft did the real modern controller design.
>Microsoft did the real modern controller design.
And that's why the scrapped the duke and copied the dualshock once more with the 4 face button layout.
No, but stupid people dispute it
Dispute what? The lie that you told?
Ken Kutaragi had the idea for the Playstation in 1985, seeing 3D software that Sony had sold to a television channel to create its credits, jingles, etc.
When Ken Kutaragi approached Japanese developers in 1993-94, he highlighted the 3D capabilities of the Playstation.
When the Playstation was released, Sony refused to publish its own game (Arc The Lad) outside of Japan because it was not in 3D.
and the guys are waiting for Nintendo to present its N64 to finally decide to put joysticks in 1997.
>So why didn't Sony add a joystick when the Playstation was released?
Saying Sega and Sony are responsible for modern controllers is not much different than saying Sony is responsible for modern controllers.
Either way Nintendo is nowhere in the picture
whoops, forgot me quote
>Either way Nintendo is nowhere in the picture
Except for standardizing analog movement in most games.
Except not since they didn't invent the analog stick
See
yeah, that's why we all control the camera movement with face buttons to this day! thanks nintendo!!!!
>that's why we all control the camera movement with face buttons to this day! thanks nintendo!!!!
c-button free cam was a precursor to dual analog free cam, let's not pretend otherwise.
"Perfect. Ship it."
Forced meme deflection doesn't change that Nintendo standardized analog movement in games with the N64 controller.
They did it again with the GameCube. They define analog triggers as the new standard.
And then stopped using them.
They can't beat the concurrence. GT is too powerful for them.
What really upsets N64 fans is that they supposedly invented the analog stick... and then the competitor immediately did it too and got 100x the support and the games. I think that's the real crux of the issue. I'd be angry too
There are only like 40 PS1 games that support the analogue stick.
https://github.com/libretro/libretro-database/issues/64
Thats the downside of introducing a new feature in a controller midgen. Sony should've done it from the start.
That's about the number of N64 games worth playing too, curiously enough
>the competitor immediately did it too and got 100x the support and the games.
So the argument went from 100x the games to just
>but the n64 has only 40 games worth playing...just like the playstation
No you're coping and projecting. Three hands! Um...4 trillion releases! Th-that disproves you, t-tendie.
>the n64
>40 games worth playing
I wasn't arguing anything. I was saying N64 fans are mad about their failure despite the supposed invention of a new thing (they didn't, but let's go with it)
It's like PUBG fans mad about Fortnite's sucess
>Sony should've done it from the start.
when developers first started making games for 3D-first consoles, nobody knew what they were doing, let alone that analog controls could get you somewhat more nuanced movement in a scotformer (a genre which didn’t exist yet)
>Nintendo STOOOLEE analog movement
Is this seriously meant to be a clever retort? Why didn't Sega or Sony steal it first then, if it was such an obvious and brilliant idea? Nintendo did invent analog movement in a modern context, and them "stealing" (headcanon) is a cope that tries to discredit this achievement. Anti-Nintendo gays here are seriously the biggest spergs ever.
Well Sony also pretty much nailed their analog controller's layout on the first try, while Nintendo waffled about with like one more good controller until they decided "frick it, just copy the xbox" with the switch controllers.
Sony should replace the right buttons by another dpad. They could still label the directions triangle, square, etc. A dpad is better than 4 buttons.
no
Sony is not a video game company. All they cared about was having a hardware featureset, and they just took the SNES controller and reused it because they didn't give a single thought to 3D games needing a new method of input. Sega Saturn was meant to be a 2D system until the last minute, and the Saturn 3D pad with analog actually predates the N64 controller. Nintendo is a video game company run by video game designers and was built from the ground up with game design in mind, which is why it's the only controller that feels good to use for 3D games in that gen.