Why do FPS players hate this again? You never see RTS players or fighting game players complaining about fighting equal skill opponents.
Why do FPS players hate this again?
Why do FPS players hate this again? You never see RTS players or fighting game players complaining about fighting equal skill opponents.
Because the metrics they use for the """skill""" part of it rarely has anything to do with what makes you a good player and is more in line with if you have cheats/programs doing shit for you in game.
>Because the metrics they use for the """skill""" part of it rarely has anything to do with what makes you a good player
>>the support player cope
Shooters are about killing enemies
If you cant get kills you are useless
Such cheats and programs don't work in modern games, old man.
Anticheat has gotten so invasive that it's near-impossible to get a program to do anything for you.
>RTS players or fighting game players complaining
Yes you do
noobs dont want to get stomped by experienced players over and over
high ranking players dont want to play against noobs who use cheese and dont use not pro level starts
I think match making is an issue but people don’t mention we just game differently now. Everyone has better hardware, they instantly tweak the settings to make it competitive, etc.
Like this https://youtu.be/7f94Z--PJdc?si=OmrzSe11ALnnslIG
Modern halo 3 MCC if someone has to run the flag they just drop it and pick it up all the way to base…it’s actually fricking soulless
>FLAG DROPPED
>FLAG DROPPED
>FLAG DROPPED
>FLAG DROPPED
>FLAG DROPPED
This post is actually gonna get ignored because no one can admit this shit now. People game way differently now and are way more tryhardy than back in the day. Hardware, flow of information, and overall different mindsets are in play here.
>Noooo it’s SBMMs fault I work 8 hours a day I deserve to chill out!
If you truly chilled out you wouldn’t be placed in SBMM matches that high
How people played cod in 2009 - https://youtu.be/tnAjOCZlCws?si=I2ud3EX6UrFODsk6
How people play cod now - https://youtu.be/hJeT5SjmEKQ?si=fyo6v0Q9e_r1_4nZ
1. older cod games had much less aim assist so it was not expected for everyone to have laser accuracy
2. older cod games and MW2 specifically had near instantaneous ttk (2-3 shot kill for every assault rifle btw) so running out in the open like a spastic moron gets you killed 90% of the time
3. older cod games didn't have zoomer movement like infinite sprint and slide canceling
All of this results in a slower, campier game with everyone sitting behind a wall in the shadows with their sights pulled up - which you can even see in the 2009 video you linked
Jesus christ that made me fricking nauseous
Aim assist is WAY stronger in all fps games now.
Back in 2009 you could actually disable it in most console fps games.
Today, the ridiculous aim assist and its acceptance as the baseline standard (with all the excuses for it, like controllers are useless without it) has created an environment where aiming is done by the game now. So everyone just runs around like morons.
This
Bottom looks way more fun and skill based, although the movement is a little too spastic.
its not soulless, its the game being shit.
when the meta is bad it just means the game is bad.
halo was always for morons.
>flag running is soulless
mechanical skill and tricks are anything but soulless
that's like saying bhopping and air strafing is soulless because you're abusing movement physics
This is literally how the game was played back in the day, Anon.
You're a god damn fricking moron if you don't think dropping the flag then picking it back up was always a good strat so you aren't holding a shitty melee weapon the entire fricking walk
moron, flag juggling was a thing since at least halo 2. When you have the option to walk like a slow moron with a flag or juggle the flag at full speed and also have the ability to shoot back then everybody who knows how to juggle will do so.
>Fortnite
>FPS
Pick one, gay moron. Nobody is complaining about SBMM in CS2, it's the main appeal of shooters.
Well it is adding a fps mode and a good deal of guns go fps
If I want to sweat, I play ranked
If I want to turn my brain off and just mindlessly play or play with shit weapons for fun, I can't because the game forces you to play in hidden ranked against tryhards
This
No metric other than K:D matters
Winning is for FFA games.
>No metric other than K:D matters
You are the reason matchmaking is a lost cause in the entire FPS genre. W/L is the only metric that matters, but you sub-simian morons aren't even playing the game. If you don't have a full premade team, victory and loss is determined pretty much entirely by which side coincidentally has the least of you fricking idiots.
I avoid any kind of team based matchmaking in general, but this shit is at its absolute worst in FPS games for some reason, I assume it's demographic factors.
>If I want to turn my brain off and just mindlessly play or play with shit weapons for fun
You can play unrated. If you have nothing to lose, why do you care that other people tryhard? You can still have fun even if you lose, since there's no stakes.
>You can play unrated.
SBMM is in unranked moron.
That's the complaint.
Not a single person in the world enjoys playing against homosexuals that use the most broken meta builds where they aren't even fun to counter.
It becomes a chore and forces you into a certain kind of gameplay or you just die repeatedly. Winning is irrelevant to this discussion, homosexual.
>I want to dunk on shittier players than me, but can't
This is quite literally what you are advocating for.
It's when that shit gets turned on in unranked and it gets just as sweaty as ranked. That's where the complaints come from
Or people at the higher end of the skill level spending like 30 minutes waiting to get a match or getting matched with people from the other side of the planet
The problem SBMM is trying to solve is that players who are in the lower half of the talent pool will not have fun / quit if they lose all the time. You turn off SBMM in unranked, that just means the players who are the least interested/capable of playing at a high level are the ones MOST likely to get stomped endlessly until they quit the game forever.
Unranked exists as a “secondary ladder” for people who don’t want to play optimally but it still needs to segregate players by skill
Nobody is complaining about fighting equal skill opponenets, they're complaining about their matches, connection, ping, etc all being manipulated because of SBMM and EOMM moron. When I played pre-MW19 CoDs my ping was always around 30. And that was while having shit internet, like around 200MB download.
I have gig internet. I live in NYC. There is no way I'm not near a server. And there is no way living in a city of 7 million people they can't find me a match locally near by...that I'm forced to play on 80+ pings.
You start out with one or two matches being decent. By the time I'm on my 5th or 6th match I'm on a 140 ping playing against OpTic and pro teams. And the thing is, it wouldn't even be bad if:
1. My internet connection/ping wasn't manipulated because of the SBMM/EOMM.
2. My teammates weren't 0.25 K/D potatoes that go 5-48.
You want SBMM in the game fine. I have a 1.7 KDR in MW3. Put me in lobbies where EVERYBODY has a 1.5-1.7 KDR...INCLUDING THE moronS ON MY TEAM. SBMM doesn't mean putting me on a team of .25 toddlers while I play against 3.00 KDR players and get raped. And that's the part of it morons don't seem to understand. Nobody is asking to play against scrubs or toddlers. I want a FAIR match or at the very least RANDOM LOBBIES. Not games that are pre-determined wins or losses because I got the 0.25 KDR toddlers and disabled people on my team.
Oh god don’t write an essay stop crying
>30 ping
>shit internet, like around 200MB download.
Way to devalue your entire argument, right at the beginning, you zoomer child.
I didn't devalue my argument dumb Black person. I gave a rough estimation as to what my internet used to be when playing CoDs without the bullshit SBMM/EOMM ape. You know WHY I was able to still pull a really great ping back then? Because the matchmaking was CONNECTION BASED you low IQ mouth breathing Black person brain ape. Hence why so many people complain about the SBMM because for one it isn't even skill based. Secondly, it manipulates your connection and ping.
>I have a 1.7 KDR in MW3. Put me in lobbies where EVERYBODY has a 1.5-1.7 KDR...INCLUDING THE moronS ON MY TEAM
That math doesnt work out you know. There must be an equal number of kills and deaths in the match excluding suicides. for there to be a high kd player there must also be a low kd player
You do realize that K/D is determined by your entire play history, not the match you're currently in, right? Right?
yes, and you should realize that trying to get equivalent players by kd will never materialize in the way you want because someone will be the weakest link no matter what and have a low kd.
Are you actually this moronic? First off, I said 1.5-1.7 so that way the players are of similar skill. The difference between a 1.5 player and a 1.7 player is very minimal. Hell you could probably extend that to 1.3 - 1.8 and still get a fairly balanced match. Also, how rare do you think a 1.7 KD is in MW3 that they can't have multiple lobbies of 1.7 players??? This game sells hundreds of milliosn of copies. I know majority of players are shitters but there are still a lot of good players out there.
I have no problem playing against sweaty tryhard wannabe pro Black folk. The problem is that I get put on teams with .10 KDR fricking apes that walk around crouched looking at the floor getting clapped. There is nothing skill based about the idiots I get on my team game after game. There is nothing fun about trying to carry 5 disabled morons that can't even get 10 fricking kills. But anybody who speaks out against SBMM/EOMM is immediately considered a shitter who just wants to beat up on trash players when that isn't the case.
my point is that kd is a shitty metric to use as an indicator of of skill level
Even winrate in a certain rank is a bad indicator, because when you get matched with equally skilled (however you measure it) players who perfectly counter your bad habits out of random chance, then it's gonna look like they're smurfing on you.
When in reality you've been flanking for the past 3 rounds in a row, and they have the three brain cells to notice that pattern and start perma watching flank.
The problem with how 9/10 games utilize SBMM is that instead of attempting to make every game fair and making small adjustments here and there constantly, they will just do it the lazy way.
Which means that if you win too many times in a row, the system will see you as an anomaly that needs to be knocked down, so it will then give you teammates that are AFKers/leavers/griefers/shitters, so that you're almost guaranteed to lose unless you carry extremely hard. This kind of shit is not a good system.
because fighting an algorithm that wants you to win 50% of your games by tryharding sucks and every match is a game where you can be one point off winning or losing every time, it's very stale
I’m not getting reasons just excuses why is it only FPS players who complain over this.
>only FPS players who complain over this
you have never played LOL right ?
LoL is literally the biggest "forced 50 winrate" game on the planet and where the whole thing started. So you're wrong.
A majority of the complaints come from fps players
So now you changed it from "it's only FPS players" to "a majority of complaints come from FPS players".
Dishonest and disingenuous.
Go suck YouTuber wiener the SBMM argument is disingenuous at best you just wanna stomp kids that’s it.
I want to not fight the same 3 meta weapons and play styles, every game.
I'm a top 1-5% player in most games I play, so I don't have any problems with SBMM/EOMM myself. I was just laughing at how you are clearly some 15 year old child.
>Why do fps players complain so much about SBMM
Its clear it struck a nerve here lmao
Shooters are the most successful online live service games next to gacha
Wrong
You obviously have never spent any time in any competitive game community.
The only ones that don't complain are:
>fighters because it's 1v1 and most of them just open lobbies and play whoever enters like an arcade
>RTS because no one plays them and if they do it's 1v1
Meanwhile Dota, League, every Digital Card game is just complaining about the meta (because winning is all that matters), stale gameplay (because winning is all that matters so you need to get the same decks/builds/heroes and they can't add any fun modes because it would distract from the grind), and toxic communities (because winning is all that matter so when you don't tryhard people get angry)
That means It's working, if you were good enough you'd have a higher winrate by merit of just dominating whatever role you're playing so hard you snowball half the map
t. top 50 in a moba when I played them
>LoL is literally the biggest "forced 50 winrate" game on the planet and where the whole thing started. So you're wrong.
If that was true, nobody would ever rank up. You are just shit kek
>If that was true
It is true.
>nobody would ever rank up
You are so stupid that you think "forced 50 winrate" means that everyone in the entire game will be hardstuck at 50% WR. That's not how it works, you fricking dumbfrick. It attempts to sway you over time and is never a hard rule.
>You are just shit kek
I was D1 when I played, so like top 2%.
>I was D1 when I played
kek so you are admitting to being shit as well
HAHAHA
>forced 50% winrate
you are meant to get close to 50% win rate in any functional ranked system. thats literally the point.
its meant to float you to the skill level you deserve to be at. if you have a higher win rate you float up until you face people good enough that it drops.
FPS Black folk are the worst.
>you are meant to get close to 50% win rate in any functional ranked system. thats literally the point.
That would be all fine and dandy, if the system did that by giving you fair matches and you lost fair and square whenever you lost.
But in reality most SBMM/EOMM games go the lazy route where they just shower you with moronic teammates after you have had a streak of good and fair games where you won a handful in a row.
why would you play a team game with randoms?
>why would you play a team game with randoms?
Why not? If there aren't shitty ass SBMM/EOMM systems then you can still easily get great games, and you can still climb ranks/ladders/MMR/ELO/etc.
because when you are matched with literal who's its essentially random and if you choose to play like that you straight up dont deserve to b***h about random outcomes.
when you are one out of five in a team that changes every match any sort of ranking up or down is bullshit and fake.
>because when you are matched with literal who's its essentially random and if you choose to play like that you straight up dont deserve to b***h about random outcomes.
The whole point of these kinds of systems is that it SHOULD match you with players around your skill. Everyone in a lobby should be the same skill level. It used to be like that, until devs figured out that 50% winrate has the highest overall player retention, even if it constantly fricks people over.
There's a reason why these things were never really a big problem until like 5-6 years ago or so.
Imagine being this much of a dumb Black person. Just say you hate FPS and call it a day homosexual. It's clear as day you don't want any actual discussion in this thread.
>run around 2kd
>get in lobby with other 2kd players that get their kd by sitting on their ass
>defeat time limit reached
I believe in "SBMM" stat modified, which affects your damage and hit probability
Also it's not SBMM, but EOMM. It's rigged to convince people to buy microtransactions.
I think it was officially patented by Activision or some shit, that if you use certain weapon very often, you'll get matched against an opponent that does good with the same weapon, but skinned.
>I grind and increase my skill
>by becoming better, I have earned the right to shit on people who haven't
>except I'm not allowed to, I'm forced to play against people who did the same
>so what was the point in improving then? no matter how much I improve I will always play against people at my own range. There's no point, just don't improve
It is my god given right to rape shitters
from what I underrstand fortnite is less of anyone playing any of the game modes and just hanging around custom chat lobbies spamming emotes and getting groomed in
Even games with server browsers are just sweat lords modern team fortress 2 is gay now
modern sbmm is a bastardization of the original model created by max hoberman. It is designed specifically to maximize the amount of player engagement by making matches as sweaty and unfun as possible 95% of the time and then throwing the player a bone by giving him an easy match 5% of the time, to boost the dopamine hit he gets from that one match and compel him to keep playing despite all the frustration.
Sbmm was originally designed with skill variability in mind - if it worked properly you would have an equal mix of easy matches, hard matches, and tight matches. Its whole goal was to reduce the amount of games where one team would completely wienerstomp the other; it was not intended to make almost every game as excruciatingly even as possible like it is now. There were also casual playlists with sbmm either turned off or heavily reduced, something missing from call of duty and fortnite. And sbmm was playlist specific and not global.
Modern sbmm is all about sucking all of the fun out of multiplayer, while hanging a carrot on a stick in front of players to gaslight them into thinking this isn't such a huge waste of time.
That guy wanted clout stop acting like he wasn’t talking bullshit
He was literally the sbmm designer for halo 2
you know, the first multiplayer game that started using sbmm
And what indie game is he trying to push that has no SBMM?
the frick are you even on about now
try reading, illiterate moron
Don’t care get good I’ll stomp you with or without SBMM
I accept your concession
Saw this yesterday--really drives the point home for me.
what a moronic manipulative system that halo shit system was.
You're trolling, but for morons whoigjt believe you:
The Halo sbmm was specific to ranked and was specific to each ranked list.
It wasn't account wide.
This allowed you to actually learn over time.
The unmentioned part of classic Halo matchmaking too was that system was a system where I felt I would have opportunities to learn and improve.
I remember the frustrating lows of being matched vs a better player/group, but I also remember learning where I was making mistakes or having poor gameplay in those matches.
Getting your teeth kicked in once in a while was really good for learning where to improve.
The ideal is a system that encourages skill growth.
The system in Halo Infinite now tho (and I'm sure cod) is just oppressive.
I'm trash at the game, and I'm not learning anything either.
The matches are too close that you won't learn anything, you just desperately fight for points and either win or lose.
>muh don't care about wins/losses
Easy enough to say and do, but an entire night of throwing bullshit sbmm lobbies on purpose is as gay as being forced to sweat in the most casual modes possible.
because people bawdsquat and deepthroat "content creators" more than ever and how are they supposed to get their octuple nuke / movement king clips without fernando.alvarez2014 going 2-37 in the lobby?
>50% of the time get stomped
>50% of the time get carried
I’ve never been matched with a full group of players as bad as me. The teams are always ‘balanced’ with a fair share of aces and dead weight. I think skill-based is a bit of a misnomer for this kind of matchmaking
This except i'm either top of the scoreboard or bottom.
I complain because instead of having 5 good players vs 5 good players and it being balanced and fun it's more like 4 morons with 1 good player against 3 morons with one good and one alright player (winning team except if the good guy that is alone can manage to be even better)
>It only belongs in ranked
>It should be its own playlist!
Yeah and I’m guessing you guys will never touch ranked or a SBMM playlist if that exists
I enjoy stomping people, having close matches isn't fun, nor is putting me on losing teams to ensure a ~50% win rate
The issue is not the "SB" part
The issue is the "MM" part
FRICK OFF WITH MATCHMAKING IN SHOOTERS
I DON'T GIVE A FRICK IF THE MATCH IS BEING MADE BASED ON "SKILL" OR NOT
MATCHMAKING HAS BEEN THE MOST CANCEROUS SOUL-KILLING SHIT THAT HAS TURNED THE MULTIPLAYER FPS GENRE INTO A FRICKING HOSTILE MISERABLE SHITHOLE STARTING IN THE LATE '00s
They have long switched from skill based matchmaking to "engagement based match making". Look at Apex legends, that's what it is. One dev at some point stated that the algo was made so solo players would gravitate around 5% winrate.
Too tired to look up the source now, been a shit day at work but look into EOMM if you're willing to do your research.
>1 in 20 winrate
bruh
Yes. Which led to people dying/quitting games as fast as possible on purpose so they would quickly get their designated "bot lobby" where they would fight the worst players ever by abusing the matchmaking.
Why blame matchmaking now? People are unironically more sweaty at games than 2007
I hate it because you start seeing patterns like
>lose two games in a row
>the game hands you an easy win in the next match
>have dominant win
>you'll certainly lose the next game
The game isn't just looking at your skill level and pairing you with people of a similar skill level. It's keeping track of your previous matches and all but dictating the success in your next match. It's intrusive and tries to tailor an experience with the purpose of keeping you glued to the screen as long as possible. Literally artificial fun.
One more thing I've noticed with CoD back when I played it was that if I didn't play for two weeks or so, I always absolutely dominate the first match I get when I jump in. And it's not because I magically got better by not playing, in fact I'm a little probably rusty at that point. The game just wants to give you an easy win and make you feel good because it sees you didn't play for a while and it doesn't want you going away again. Frick "SBMM"
The worst are the games where you can play like 6-8 matches in a row that all feel really good with even teams. Then the system decides to kick in afterwards and you get 4-5 absolutely atrocious matches in a row full of absolute morons, trolls and leavers on your team.
I am looking at you, League of Legends.
People have a perception that if they are better than 75% of players, that entitles them to win 75% of matches. Basically just scrub mentality of not wanting to be challenged to improve
there's no possible improvement when the algos behind the scenes dictate your final results before you even enter a match
The algorithm doesn’t control how well you play, only the level of challenge you face. If you lose, it’s because you should have played better than you did. What you want is to be rubbed on the shoulders and patted on the back for being as good as you are, rather than being challenged to do better than the algorithm expects you to do.
>If you lose, it’s because you should have played better than you did
Not that guy, but how exactly are you expected to carry let's say 2-3 deadweight teammates?
>play in your high school basketball team
>win 2 games in a row in your season
>next game you are matched against a professional nba team
If you lose, it’s because you should have played better than you did.
You cant compare matchmaking to a league you fricking mongoloid moron. This is why you will never be good at the game.
>no intelligent response
I accept your concession
a matchmaker will always place you depending on your elo/mmr. A league will place you against players in the same league. It is insane how your monkey brain cannot understand this concept.
> A league will place you against players in the same league
That is the fricking point, moron. A fair sbmm implementation will place you with players of comparable skill. Cod eomm will place you with players far above or below your skill level depending on your recent stats and your current win/lose streak in order to boost engagemnent.
You can very easily trick the sbmm in cod by deranking, and get tard lobbies within just a few thrown games. Have you not tried this before?
You are signing up to play a matchmaker not a league. If you perform well your mmr goes up and you will be matched against better players. Why is the concept so fricking hard to understand when it is literally in everything with a matchmaking system.
>the moronic schizo is still talking about leagues
That is what it was compared to in the first post I replied to. I am not sure why it is so hard for you homosexuals to understand how it works. It should be there so you will know that you are shit at everything you do.
>moronic schizo triples down on his moronic "point"
morons should not play videogames against other players if you do not understand very simple systems that are put into place so you are matched according to your performance.
>you are matched according to your performance.
You have been given many examples as to how modern sbmm does not work like this
It does, I play better than people in the last lobby and I am placed with better players versus I play like a moron and am placed with morons in the next. What is so hard to understand about sbmm?
It is very telling that you have never been good at a game/played a ranked ladder.
>morons should not play videogames
I agree. So you should stop playing video games.
I've been top 0.5% in every ranked game I've played so far. Not once have I complained about a matchmaking system.
>I've been top 0.5% in every ranked game I've played so far
Name the games.
cs(faceit), valorant, overwatch, apex and sc2
post screenshots
Show your FACEIT profile.
nah im not gonna doxx myself, since it very easy to find out who I am irl from the names etc.
Yeah, you're definitely lying. Nice LARP.
lmao
I accept your concession, moron
Maybe don't shout your way into a hole you know you can't climb out of next time
Why would I give out my personal info over some argument with morons who cannot comprehend how videogame mmr systems work. Stay crying about people being better than you.
Take a picture of your screen with a timestamp and black out your name then. But we both know you're not going to do that because you're full of shit.
This is embarrassing anon. Just man up and know when you've been called out on your bullshit
Do you know you can find the name through the rating? Literally talking to someone who has never played a competitive game about videogame rankings and mmr lmao
I played CS 1.6 on a semi-competitive level and participated in actual tournaments against real pro teams. I was Global in the old CSGO rankings. I was top500 in a handful of OW seasons and played with/against tons of pros. I played 3 seasons of Apex at the top(S2 D1, S3 D1, S4 Master). I was D1/D2 in LoL for a couple of seasons.
Not only do I complain about SBMM/EOMM, I have also seen tons of other people around me complain about it.
I am sure all of us who started young played semi pro in 1.6 or source. It was the only way to actually play against better teams. Global in csgo meant nothing even back then when it was still about putting hours into the game. Ow t500 is good if it was early on. I played on one of the world cup teams in the first owwc.
Who around you is complaining about casual shit games having sbmm?
>I played on one of the world cup teams in the first owwc
That's interesting. There's like ~20 players in there in the qualifiers that I played with/against back in the day. Did you play in the group stages?
>Who around you is complaining about casual shit games having sbmm?
Mostly just people who still play shit like LoL, CoD, and so on. Though more people complain about aim assist now.
You can add Fortnite, Apex, and pretty much any PVP online game to that list these days. As gaming gets more and more popular, the industry is seeing more and more money. Which means they'll continue to implement SBMM because of all the casual players. Which is kinda ironic because those casual players buy the game, stick around for a few weeks, and then move onto the next big release, be it NBA 2K, FIFA, God of War, GTA, Starfield, etc. They shun their dedicated player base to appease the casuals who out number the die hard fans, just for those same casuals to frick off and go play whatever flavor of the month shit that just dropped. What's that new Bethesda slop just dropped? Time to delete War Zone and go play that instead. Wait, the new Monkey Elden Ring rip off game just dropped? Let's go play that instead.
Yeah I played in groups. It was really the only bigger esports experience I have had outside of smaller tourneys since I am just a ladder player.
Aim assist complaints is something I support but sbmm I rarely hear outside of cod players who want to make videos shooting new players or just very mediocre people.
>Yeah I played in groups
Are you from Europe?
I am yeah
Kryw, INTERNETHULK, ShaDowBurn, iddqd, chipshajen, Zebbosai, TviQ, Taimou, LiNkzr.
These are names I recognize and remember from when I played S1/S2/S3. If one of these is you, then we have played with/against each other in ranked.
all those trash washed up tf2 nobodies and literal whos
>failed at tf2
>failed at ow
it's the cursed touch. do not let these yurotrash play your game unless you are happy with it flopping as an ``esport''
Overwatch would have died either way, simply because of the classic Blizzard indifference to balancing. I still can't believe how many shitty metas OW had, and Blizzard did frickall about any of them. Reaper spin2win meta, McCree ult2win meta, triple tank + Soldier + Ana meta, grav + Hanzo ult meta, let-everyone-die-then-have-Mercy-fly-in-to-ress meta, dive meta, GOATS meta, etc. etc.
>gamedev does nothing
>metas and counters develop organically
I prefer this over monthly balance patches when something becomes too strong.
Could very well be. I am sure we have played before on ladder. RIP INTERNETHULK tho, was a great guy.
>nah im not gonna doxx myself, since it very easy to find out who I am irl from the names etc.
L M A O
Why even attempt to make up shit when you back down the very second you get questioned on anything?
Yo if you down to post your tag that leads to your full name and socials, I'll do it too.
None of those except apex have the sort of SBMM people are discussing here.
And even Apex is different in that EA seeds matches in Apex with bots so people can get some easy kills before ending their run.
What the hell are you on, send some my way
Anon I can't really bother arguing with you if you can't comprehend the fact that an sbmm system that tries to force 1:1 win/loss ratios above all else is a garbage system, especially in a hyper casual game like cod that was never designed to be ultra-competitive, or when it's managed by companies as greedy as activision who won't hesitate to tune it in a way to maximize the dopamine hit from finally getting an easy game to get their players addicted to the feeling.
So what system should they use? One where you win 80% of the time?
original sbmm.
But in that model the end goal is still 50% win rate. That is just the fricking winrate you are going to have if you are against someone of equal skill.
>can't even follow a simple analogy
Just end it all my dude
>simple analogy
These 2 things cannot be compared. You can go sign up to your homosexual shit player league and keep playing against the same people.
What in the frick are you babbling about? Are you a schizophrenic or something?
Correct. And if basketball leagues used a skill ladder that’s what would happen. Well, it wouldn’t be an NBA team, it’d be a college team, or a regional AA team, and then on up.
But what you WANT is to go 15-0, and be the big fish in the small pond, because you’re exclusively matched against your inferiors
>Well, it wouldn’t be an NBA team, it’d be a college team, or a regional AA team, and then on up.
And that's the distinction.
If sbmm was implemented properly, if you kept doing well you would gradually go up the ladder.
With current sbmm if you kept doing well, you'd be put in the NBA to guarantee you lose and force you back down to the league that the algorithm thinks you belong in.
Except that’s demonstrably NOT how it works, that’s just your perception because your brain inflates the skill level of anyone better than you to godhood as a coping mechanism. PVP winning is a zero-sum game; in order for someone to win, someone else has to lose. If the NBA teams are all getting regularly matched up in pubstomps to manage YOUR ranking, they’d all be way above a 50% winrate.
The worst that SBMM systems are guilty of is doing a bad job at matching your rank with your actual skill (which IS a problem for which there is no universal solution), and/or applying a lax matching threshhold because they prioritize getting you into a match (there has to be some range of acceptable skill levels around yours to pair you with which depends on the density of players seeking matches who are at your skill level; SBMM necessarily can’t pair you with appropriate opponents if there aren’t any)
The success in a match isn't just determined by how well (You) play. If the game needs you to lose, it can do that by giving you a bunch of morons on the team (whose turn it is to win) and competent players on the other team (whose turn it is to lose). These people are chosen for the match not because they are close to you with their skill level but because their W/L or K/D has deviated too far from what the game is trying to force it to be.
It's not a secret at this point, video game devs and designers have spoken out about how the algorithms work. The game is putting people in winning and losing groups prior to a match and of course there will be scenarios where the underdog somehow comes up on top but that will account for some negligible percentage of games played.
>it can do that by giving you a bunch of morons on the team (whose turn it is to win) and competent players on the other team (whose turn it is to lose)
I switched that around but you get what I'm trying to say
It isnt fps players, it is cod players who are awful at fps games or content creators who rely on shitting on new players for money. Also, I guess the fans of these homosexuals who make the videos.
casual matches exist in fighting games and RTS
Not everyone wants a 24/7 sweat fest. Sometimes you just want to frick around with a goofy loadout or just use a shit weapon to get camos.
This entire issue reads like cope from casual FPS players who like COD or halo. Counter Strike chads do not complain about this.
yeah I know people who play quake champions and they dont mind it either.
its a console homosexual disease.
You don't have SBMM in cs2 or quake outside of ranked.
And community servers don't have SBMM by design.
I also play quake and cs. But I like to play with friends too, and sometimes they want to play cod of halo.
So I've experienced it and its an awful experience.
I'd rather be 0-12 in a CS casual match with some no life stealing all the kills or killing everyone than deal with that oppressive system they use to manipulate for player addiction and retention.
A majority of the CS player base plays ranked and CS2 server browser is a mess
I just want to be matched with teammates that actually play the objective. I don't care if you have 3+ k/d, if you have barely any time on the hardpoint then you are no better than the 0.5 k/d noob who doesn't know what a capture point looks like.
Fighting game players usually have open lobby settings along with SBMM, which lets them choose their opponents and play casually with whoever they choose for as long as they choose. There's no angle to complain about SBMM if you don't want to deal with it because you could just hang out in the battlehub or something and shark newer players if all you want is the stomping on people worse than you experience.
Hey, I think FPS games used to have something like that. Kum-unity servers or something like that? I wonder whatever happened to that.
Games with community servers nowadays are still loaded with sweat lords that youll cry about
you can just switch servers. you can start a server that disallows your vague definition of "sweatlords" that is entirely possible
community servers can solve all of your problems with people not playing the game in the way that you find tasteful but it took two seconds to find a good server instead of mindlessly pressing green button so nobody wants them
Tekken 7 has a neat variety of SBMM.
>Ranked mode: you can select the range of players you want to get matched against. You can select a range of +x/-x of your rank to get matched up against. So e.g. if you are rank 20 and select +2/-2, you will get matched against players rank 18-22
>You can remove the upper limit altogether, allowing you to match with people infinitely upwards. And while you can't select to match against lower rank players, any lower rank player who has removed their upwards limit is eligible to match against you. So you sped ~90% of your matches against similarly skilled opponents, and then ~10% vs. people outside your skill level
>Quickmatch has sbmm, but it's very relaxed. You will be prioritized to get matched against people close to your rank, but about half the time you fight somebody much better or much worse than you.
>Then there are lobbies, which have no game-driven SBMM. It simply displays your rank next to any lobby you make, so that people can choose for themselves whether they want to join a lobby at your rank.
Because despite the push in the last few decades, video games are not sports, and gamers are not real sportsmen. Most gamers don’t get joy from competing at the highest level or facing the toughest competition. This is an entirely foreign concept to them. They’re nerds with inferiority complexes so they need to dunk on people less skilled than them to feel better about themselves.
Real sportsmen can go and play pickup games if they want, gamers are stuck in a hellworld where the second they go to a local court every player becomes Steph Curry.
Because there are patents and other documents showing their plans to implement this stuff almost a decade ago.
In those documents, the spelled out the plan wasn't to get equal and fair matches, its was to manipulate player emotions to keep them playing and get addicted.
SBMM is designed to keep players at a 50/50 win rate, but it is more importantly done to keep players addicted by giving them a lot of losses and then a lot of wins.
That sort of "high highs" and "low lows" are exactly the sort of psychological environment where addiction formation thrives.
Its absolutely clear too that they're not designing this for fair and equal matches when you see games like CoD and Halo both push situations where good players are.matched with shit players in order to force them to carry noobs.
Imagine the manipulation that creates:
Player notices they're carrying all the time, it makes them excuse the losses on their teammates and revel in the wins of carrying a bunch of scrubs.
Its really bad and I recently dl'd Halo Infinite again because of their new Halo3 playlist, and holy shit the SBMM is insidious as frick.
The main reason it didn't ultimately draw me in and keep me playing is because I know I suck dick at fps games and I have no desire to suffer through sweaty matches.
I only wanted to revisit some old maps and play some obj game modes and chill.
Didn't realize I'd be asked to carry the short bus kids against average players.
Not fun, and I don't want to be manipulated like that.
Truthfully, the motivation of the corporations behind all of this shit is addiction, that's all.
Call it "player retention" or "player engagement", the goal is addiction.
It should be illegal.
>I wanna stomp noobs
>We need the government involved to regulate it
I am used to old games since most of my gaming experience was in my youth and as far as I know most old games didnt have that SBMM meme, you just played against whoever noobs and pros and was gradually getting better, also that way you were able to communicate and be friends with people who are better than you and you were able to play with them and learn from them and improve, playing against only people on your skill level just make it harder to improve to higher skill level especially when you are noob in the long term, and playing against pros only is harder and you will get killed alot but still learn a little bit, when the matching system is random and you can be with pros and noobs in a match its just more fun and you improve faster from my experience
oh yeah and the fact it based on K/D ratio is a fricking meme, fricking trash
Sweating at your utmost ability is for ranked
There is no point having normals if its secretly ranked anyway
>Play basketball at local court
>If i get stomped or have a bad time I can just go and join a different group of players until we get an even match
>Play any multiplayer game
>Having a bad time or getting stomped
>leave
>YOU HAVE BEEN TIMED OUT FOR 30 MINUTES HOW DARE YOU NOT WANT TO SIT DOWN AND HAVE A SUBPAR EXPERIENCE FOR A GAME YOU PAID FOR YOU JUST HAVE TO GRIN AND BEAR IT
>people are surprised when the community is toxic
Just one of the many MANY reasons why lobbies were better
most FPS players are normalBlack person subhumans of course they dont want to get matched with people on their own level as it:
-gives them a reality check that exposes their low rank or MMR
-doesnt let them fluff up their own egos by stomping literal children forever
For RTS ELO is completely normal and fighting games that cant maintain active ranked are considered dead.
Whenever I see this nonargument I'm reminded of how people fundamentally don't understand how modern sbmm.
It USED to be that as you rank up, you gradually face better opponents that are close in skill level to you. That's how it work in older shooters like halo 3 and in fighting games.
Now, sbmm prioritizes 50% winrate ABOVE ALL ELSE. You won 2 games in a row? Can't have that, your next game will be a guaranteed loss because we're putting you against the sweatiest teamstack in existence. had a losing streak? Don't worry, here's a team of paraplegics for you to stomp on.
Modern sbmm allows for a huge variation in skill level in order to artificially keep your w/l ratio as close to 1 as possible, and it's extremely strong in cod so virtually everyone with a brain can notice how deliberately their multiplayer experience is being curated around this one performance metric. It's not there to ensure a fair match or even playing field anymore, not even close. It's there to increase engagement by making that dopamine hit when you occasionally get those tard lobbies much, much stronger.
>-gives them a reality check that exposes their low rank or MMR
Yeah except CoD hides your MMR so you don't even know if you're playing anyone of a simliar MMR or not you stupid Black person lmao my god so many stupid fricking apes in this thread it's comical listening to you morons blab your dick sucking lips about shit you know literally nothing about. You know WHY people never complain about sweaty matches or SBMM in RANKED/COMPETITIVE modes? Because they have actual ELO/RANKS that tell you HOW GOOD YOU ARE and the quality/skill of the players you're playing against. Public/Casual matches should be casual....not sweaty ass competitive matches you stupid Black person. But to add to that you can't even tell how good or ass you are because guess what? They hide the ELO/MMR LOL
>MM has had enough, gives me a 1% chance to win match
>Break through all restraints and play better than I've ever played before
>Win
>mfw I BTFO the algorithm yet again
Never stop getting gud anons
There aren't any RTS players anymore.
because the fps aren't 1v1 scenarios and you have to deal with what the system thinks is fair between 5 people vs 5 other people and it usually isn't putting you against people your skill level, its shit like 3 dudes that are pro with 2 morons vs your team of average dudes so its completely unfun
Fighting games and RTS often have ranked queues with proper matchmaking, or more casual options if you just want to fight truly random people. People complain about SBMM in CoD because they don't have options. Additionally, ranked games give you an elo or rank so give you the satisfaction of knowing you're improving, but CoD (or most of the other FPS games that people complain about) don't have that.
But really the worst part is that it doesn't really work the way you'd think it does. Instead of truly matching you with equal skill players, you'll just repeatedly swap between stomping the enemy team with no effort, and getting matched against people way above your skill level. Neither of which feel very good because in the games you're winning, you know it's just matchmaking giving you a free win, it doesn't feel earned.
Also it's not even about "muh not being able to stomp pubs anymore" since it's easily abused. Someone can just purposefully play like shit for 10-20 games, then in their next session they'll be matched against people far, far below their skill level and destroy them.
SBMM isn’t about facing equal skilled opponents, it’s about keeping you 50/50 no matter what. They will give you a vegetable as a teammate and pit you against the world champion if they have to.
Because it deliberately seeks to remove one of the funnest ans rarest forms of match:
A total joke where one side is absolutely destroyed and even they are lauging.
>A total joke where one side is absolutely destroyed and even they are lauging.
This was a common, beautiful thing in Team Fortress 2. Did any other games capture this? I only seem to see rage lobbies/games in stuff like Modern Warfare.
I had a lot of matches like that in Overwatch in quick play before ranked came out.
this scares the modern day publisher
This actually looks like a fricking mess we just wanna play regular maps on regular rules and not get russian malware.
Bruh, you know Battlefield has had this feature for years and quickplay just put you in an official dice server without any matchmaking right?
It's just zoomers like you that ruin everything because they can't handle 5 minutes of looking for a map so they just automate everything and take control away from you. Now enjoy your eternal grind for a rank that will mean nothing once the next game comes out.
Expect battlefield server browsers were never cancerous bullshit that is source games you moved goal posts.
>De_dust2 10 times
>barley anyone playing
>Russian servers
we can't have players making their own content bro
imagine all the money we'll be losing out on
This unironically forces the reason why match making took over
Forced 50 is a compliance engine for goycattle
>MMR doesn't give a shit how you perform, only the results of your performance
>this means playing your best and losing and feeding down mid in an asshomosexuals game will reduce your MMR the same amount
Same goes for carrying and being carried. MMR systems rarely actually grade players on how well/poorly they played because that hurts their feefees and makes them quit playing the game and most importantly, spending money on the game.
Because current games don't have solo mode, and the way SBMM works is by either by putting a bunch of shitters in your team or by putting you with a dude that's way better than you, so you're either carrying shitters or instantly dying, this would be easily solved with solo mode, but new games hate this for some reason
>git gud at the game
>no SBMM
>meet noobs that you beat easily and might teach a thing or two
>meet pros that beat you easily and you can learn from
>SBMM
>meet people that are of similar skill
>almost no satisfaction from beating them because the end result came more out of chance rather than skill
>almost nothing to learn from them
Plus the fact that the matchmaking system is often geared towards player retention rather than player satisfaction
Because randoms suck, they're not predictable and they're not learning the game. They don't respond to any situation or pressure that a skilled player would and the competitive players ego cant handle that a bullet is still a bullet and they can be killed by anyone. Unlike fightan games where unless the game is trash and nerfed into the ground for casual feelings, you wont be losing because its a controlled 2D environment with less or no random elements.
That said, people b***hing about SBMM should either make alts or shut the frick up.
Players say they want skill based matchmaking, but it's proven the best player retainment is fun based matchmaking. Players say they want all perfectly balanced matches, but they actually want unbalanced matches in the right proportions.
>it's proven the best player retainment is fun based matchmaking
[citation needed]
Super Bash Mros Melee??
To add to your point, Fighting games suck when it's not skill based Blowing out scrubs is never fun
>matchmaking in FPS
not necessary nor needed
>b-b-b-but my ranked!
if you're in a team-based game, it becomes a team check and not a player check, functionally worthless
I can't believe people are still getting paid to normalize this so companies can profit off of engagement algorithms
>win one match
>game rigs the matchmaking so you are guaranteed shit teammates next game and top 100 players on the enemy team
it's all manipulation to get more money out of the player and the modern codgay does not see it and just keeps sucking the israeli wiener of acivision even harder
People on the lower end of the spectrum are stuck in ELO hell in competitive. People on the higher end are stuck in full sweat mode in casual.
Because its social engineering. They make you win 50% of your matches and lose 50% to keep you hooked like a drug addict making you play the game more. Anyway OP is a gay and he should kill himself.
My only problem with SBMM is as a top player it expects me to carry a team of absolute scrubs when I play with my friends that are lower skill. Solo I've never once had an issue. I feel like most people complaining simply aren't as goof as they think they are.