Why do people hate the 3D sonic games so much?
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Nothing Ever Happens Shirt $21.68 |
Why do people hate the 3D sonic games so much?
Why do people hate the 3D sonic games so much?
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e-celebs who intentionally proc glitches. Anybody who's actually played the game could tell you that Sonic's handling is great, the physics are fun to make use of, and the level design is great.
>but big the ca-
Oh wow the game sucks when you intentionally play the characters you don't like! Wow!! I guess Street Fighter now sucks because of Dan.
Now try to explain away the shit presentation, story, voice acting, and camera.
>shit presentation
the cutscene animations are wonky =/= WTF THIS GAME SUCKS I HATE IT ISN'T FUN TO PLAY
>story
See above, never mind that the story is fine
>Voice acting
See above
>camera
What's wrong with the camera here: https://youtu.be/qnNTj0zwMFU
Does the camera do anything remotely objectionable? No; you've got a far pan and can always scope out the wide open environments.
>you're forced to play as
You're not, not one person other than yourself is forcing you to get the completionist reward. Stop playing games like OCD checklists and you'll enjoy them a lot more.
>not one person other than yourself is forcing you
It's not a person, it's the abstract fact that Sonic's story lasts five minutes of gameplay
>You're not, not one person other than yourself is forcing you to get the completionist reward. Stop playing games like OCD checklists and you'll enjoy them a lot more.
nta but you're mistaking completing the story for getting every emblem. While it is true that nobody is forcing you to complete the story with super sonic defeating final chaos, completing the story adds more to the experience than collecting every emblem in the stages, adventure fields, minigames, etc, as collecting all emblems won't unlock anything meaningful (in the DC version it doesn't unlock anything at all)
Anyways if he didn't like the Gamma section then I don't value his opinion very highly to begin with.
>simply beating the game is a completionist reward
How are you this fricking moronic?
So saying "I beat the game as Knuckles" is an incorrect statement?
Yes, because you can't complete other character's stages with one character. "I completed Knuckles's story" would be more accurate.
So you can't beat Sonic and Knuckles as Knuckles, then, since Knuckles can't go to the Death Egg?
It's a game with two stories to tell, it's right there in the name "Sonic and Knuckles". If you've only completed Knuckles's story then yeah, you haven't beaten Sonic and Knuckles.
That is silly. You can beat a game with whichever character you like, that's why they're there for you to choose amongst.
Saying you beat the game as knuckles is like saying you beat Star Fox Adventures as Krystal.
you beat Knuckles' story, not the game
beating Sonic Adventure means finishing all six characters to unlock the Super Sonic story, then completing that
if you haven't done that you literally haven't even seen the whole story, you didn't beat the game yet
Playing Sonic Adventure to completion doesn't mean you beat it because you haven't even seen the whole story till you play the other games
you're moronic
Where was I wrong? Adventure continues the echidna mural stuff set up in Sonic 3 & Knuckles, so if you haven't beaten that game (which, reminding everybody, constitutes beating each character's story) then you haven't seen let alone appreciated the full story Sonic Adventure propels.
>Where was I wrong?
when you tried to pretend that the story of other games has anything to do with beating one game
you are absolutely moronic
What does beating Knuckles's story have to do with beating Sonic's?
both are pieces of a larger whole called Sonic Adventure which has 5 other pieces.
If you don't beat all 7 you didn't beat the game.
you already know this, you're just being a homosexual.
So you can't beat any game as {selectable character}?
depends on the game. in games where all characters have the same core gameplay, beating it with one is sufficient.
you know this, you're just being a homosexual.
>depends on the game
Wrong, you are using mental gymnastics to explain why you forced yourself to play as Big the Cat
you're moronic
We were forced to play as big the cat in order to defear chaos you fricking dumb moron
huh??? you can defeat chaos as sonic, tails, or knuckles
Weird because I don't see Tails or Knuckles icon here
did you morons even play the game?
Big's story is both relaxing and fun to play when you know what to do, however I also enjoy watching people like Arin try to play Big's story simply because of how simple the solution to their problem is.
And I'm sure people feel the same way about fishing in Ocarina of Time but I am not forced to fish if I want to defeat Ganon
Fishing is not a core element of Link's characterization nor does it have any significant influence on the plot, unlike Big and how fishing progresses his facet of the overall story. Get it? "Facet"? Man I love being literate.
Have you taken a moment to consider just how fricking moronic of a plot element fishing for a frog that swallowed a chaos emerald is? It'd be like having a character dedicated entirely to Rhythm dance mini games because a chaos emerald got transformed into a disco ball.
the frick you mean?? the plot is that big is looking for froggy
>Doesn't even remember the inciting incident of Big's story.
Look if you're gonna defend a game at least know more about it than the chucklefricks making fun of it.
It's a game about talking animal characters, it's not exactly high art. Fishing is a core characterization of Big, he carries a fishing pole everywhere and is regularly seen fishing. His only friend randomly eats his lucky charm and abandons him in the middle of the night, what else was he to do other than try to catch him? What better to catch him with than the one thing he carries around all the time?
That wasn't me but he's right; Froggy suddenly grew a tail and started acting erratically after being confronted by Chaos Zero, swallowing a chaos emerald (Big's "lucky charm") and running away from their home in the Mystic Ruins forest. That was the initial incident which lead to Big looking for Froggy.
>Fishing is a core characterization of Big
A characterization that was created specifically for this game. Big never existed prior to Sonic Adventure. His characterization could have been literally anything. They literally created him with the sole purpose of shoving a mandatory fishing minigame into a platformer which makes about as much sense as shoving in a mandatory geography quiz. Just because the story is arbitrary doesn't mean the gameplay is too.
Oh wow, the only reason he was included was specifically to include a fishing game which is why that's his sole characterization? What a revelation! Have you told anyone else this massive secret you unearthed? Should we get this knowledge to the press? Was this truth revealed to you through a spiritual connection to Jon St. John? In case you couldn't tell I'm making fun of you for arguing for things nobody was disputing.
>Just because the story is arbitrary doesn't mean the gameplay is too.
If a game is "shoving a mandatory fishing minigame into a platformer" does that not describe how you believe the fishing gameplay was added arbitrarily? Even if it was, so what? All fiction is technically arbitrary.
Point is, if someone wants to complete the story for Sonic Adventure that means completing every facet (ha!) of the story which includes the historically lamented Big chapter. If others feel so strongly about Big's chapter then I'm sure they wouldn't mind finishing the story online instead, assuming they understand how the story hasn't been completed due to skipping chapters they disliked.
>second easiest fishing minigame
>shortest chapter
>morons get filtered
I just don't know, Big's stages have best aestetics, beach one with hidden cave is top tier. Adorable story of a big guy searching for his friend. Minigame, that becomes fun the moment you understand, how it works.
A fellow fishing appreciator I see
>if someone wants to complete the story for Sonic Adventure
So which is it: the story is extremely moronic and not worth learning about, or it's actually interesting but you dropped it over Big?
False dichotomy, try again
You are forced to fish to get the Golden Scale. You are not forced to fish to face the Egg Viper.
By claiming to have seen the whole intertwining story by following one character's plotline, you're effectively claiming to have completely read a book after only reading the first chapter when there's another six left.
Gameplay is great and all, but if the story is being told from multiple perspectives then playing out those character's perspectives is the only way to fully experience the story. Check out "No One Has To Die", it's an indie game you can play in a browser that messes with that concept.
You literally need to beat Knuckles story in order to get Sonic's true ending. Why are you willing to die on such a moronic hill? Are all Sonic Adventure fans this dedicated to ignoring its faults?
You control the buttons you press, so you actually forced yourself. No first-time player knows the Perfect Chaos boss fight exists, so it's a completionist secret
>Perfect Chaos boss fight is a completionist secret
Bahahahaha are you serious? The fricker is in the opening cinematic everytime you launch the game.
>why are you clearing all the dungeons for the Triforce pieces? Just play the parts of the game you like and stop treating the game like an OCD checklist
In order to see the story to the end you have to beat the game with all six characters you dumb motherfricker.
Yes plenty of games have hidden final bosses behind completionist tasks. Peace Walker especially comes to mind.
Beating every stage once is not completing the game, beating every level in every stage is.
the story is mostly fine save for a few moronic moments like eggmans asspull nuke and the egg carrier mk2. the voice acting is fine in the japanese version, its unfair to judge a game because it got a shitty dub
>Oh wow the game sucks when you intentionally play the characters you don't like!
Yeah the character you're forced to play as you dipshit. If Big Gamma or Amy were completely optional no one give a shit but you have to play three shit characters to get the proper ending with Sonic.
FPBP. The series ends with Adventure 2.
t. Loaded question dumbass
>Why do people hate the 3D sonic games so much?
people hate SA1 & 2 because of what said while people hate on boost games because they've convinced themselves that they're just "BOOST 2 WIN LOLOL!" and completely miss the point of the time trial/speedrunning aspect and/or purposefully avoid the shortcuts to get faster times.
personally i think everything from adventure 2 to sonic 06 is dogshit because sonic is basically a guest star in his own and i don't give two shits about 90% of his friends and supporting cast while unleashed to generations was a return to form with lost world, boom and forces being the only bad games since then.
>lost world
Weird how this gets singled out as a bad game. I remember playing it and getting a really fun, enjoyable 3d platformer. Sonic fans are just weird I guess
it's just adventuredrones
it's serviceable but extremely bland and kinda felt like a phone game at times
Why would you ask a question so widely discussed for decades that it's trite?
I like sonic but this might be OP samegayging for validation
Was playing the OG Adventure on Dreamcast just last weekend. It's WAY less glitchy than the Gamecube port and every subsequent re-release which was based on said port, but it still has a bit of jank to it.
That said, it's not game-breaking at all. I died once or twice due to jank in some of the later Sonic levels, but by that point one or two deaths is no big deal. The problem is that modern gamers have panic attacks whenever they lose a life; they've been groomed to think that a "proper" gaming experience is to play a game from start to finish without ever struggling or failing.
I like Sonic Adventure 1, but it has huge problems
>Sonic
Best part of the game obviously and the most fleshed out. Hard to control sometimes, but works well. Upgrades are kind of fun too
>Tails
Plays like sonic, but the stages are all race gimmicks and replaying most of sonic's levels. It'd be far better if he had his own stages or if you just replayed sonic's stages without the time limit, so you can explore more with the flying.
>Knuckles
Big ass treasure hunt stages, which range from tedious to alright. Cool free roam idea, but the stages generally lack any fun ways to gain speed, so you just float a bit.
>Robot
Noise galore, bad.
>Amy
Had potential and she has some good mechanics, but the whole robot chasing you the entire time and having such small truncated sonic levels kills it. I like the hammer.
>Big
Sucks.
Sonic Adventure 2 however is very awful. The sonic/shadow stages are tolerable, but the huge treasure hunt stages and the robot noise galore stages which make my ears fricking bleed was too much. I couldn't even finish the game when I replayed them recently. I don't know how I played these two games as a kid so much, especially SA2 for the gamecube, because it's awful.
I’ve been playing Sonic Adventure 1 and the game literally plays itself once you get going fast. You don’t even have to touch the joystick, he just auto pilots through the ramps and obstacles.
If this is the entire game, I’m dropping it.
>he just auto pilots through the ramps and obstacles
What
Did I stutter? You can play the first few maps by only touching your joystick a couple times. The course literally pushes you through it.
Kek no you can't
>90 degree turn in the lane
Sonic automatically turns is
>slight turn in lane
Sonic auto adjusts and doesn’t even hit wall
>series of bumpers
Don’t even have to aim at the first one, he just hits it and bounces across
Do I need to post a fricking video you morons?
If you let go of the analog stick, Sonic will either stop in his tracks or, worse, fall off or even through the level, you're full of shit
>video
Pointless
You hold the stick forward and Sonic does 99% of the steering. He takes the turns by himself. You know exactly what I’m referring to, you’re just being a fanboy homosexual.
adventure is not a fricking auto runner
the "it controls itself you dont have to do anything" bullshit only applies to the ACTUAL auto runners like secret rings. everything else is brainlet chimping
You should drop it, you don't deserve to play such a great game, dumb ass lying moron.
Adventure 2 is far above 1.
The way to treasure hunting in SA2 is to use the hints. At the third hint the game practically tells you where the gem/key is.
>Big
>Sucks
Tsk
I honestly suspect it's a couple of reasons. For sonic fans it's because they're hyper autistic and tribalistic and will shit on huge chunks of the franchise (even when undeserved) while gassing up the bits they like.
For others it's probably because they're genuinely bad at them. A game being built around fast platforming, is a challenge for most people to get into. Especially considering platformers, 3d ones are already hard enough to learn. So being expected to control such a fast character makes it a lot worse.
There's a single rule: If you like Sonic as a grown man then you must be at least a bit autistic, but you are 100% destined to die alone.
Because they're made by sega and in the late 90s/early 2000s sega was a moronic company
POV: 3D Sonic Game Enjoyer
Maybe the games just aren't that good.
They don’t, Adventure 1 and 2 are beloved to this day
If you’ve spent countless hours playing the first three 2d games, you would know why everyone hates the 3d ones. Sonic 1-3 is peak gaming.
Because Egorapturd
3D Sonic games didn't get good until Unleashed.
Because the Sonic blackpill making people at least think "Sonic went wrong when he went into 3D" for so long. It's either that or they become "It was always bad" morons.
Define people. I see non stop praise or at least aknowledgment for the Adventure games being of the few good 3D Sonic games
Because they're shitty B games with AAA budgets.
Because everything everything sa2 was shit
Because a sex pest with a giraffe neck and Captain Hook-nose, along with a highschool dropout who thought sega was officially licensing sonic porn both said so on YouTube.
That's literally it. Nobody is ever shits on the game ever played it on an actual Dreamcast. They either emulate, or play any of the progressively worse ports that came out over the years.
Frick, the PC port is a port of the 360 port which ported over the gamecube port of the Dreamcast version, and that's not some fricking joke. morons play that and then pretend they are allowed to have an opinion.
There's nothing wrong with the gamecube port of SA2
Sonic Adventure 2 is good though
Oh wait, you said 3D sonic games, not the adventure games.
Because the 3D sonic games after Adventure 2 progressively took more and more control away from the player, to the point that they became glorified temple run iphone games. The exceptions being Heroes (shit level design, 90% rail grinding) and Shadow The Hedgehog (Idk I liked it). Everything after started doing that scripted shit that magnetized you to the center to prevent you from trying to play yourself. Then the writing got childish and turned it all into a Nick Junior kiddie time for babies. I personally first noticed that with Sonic Unleashed.
You can't possibly extolling the virtues of Sonic's mature story.
It wasn't millennial writing once upon a time
I actually do think shadows run and gun gameplay is surprisingly good. It's just everything around it is mediocre to bad.
because they're bad and it hurts even more having bad games come from a once great series.
They're not fun?
They are hard to control.
People generally do not hate SA, those who do I guarantee didn’t play it, or did something like try to replicate clipping bugs in the DX version then quit.
Yes. If you want to complete the story that means completing the story.
You can't search for master emerald shards as Big, you can't race Sonic as Amy. If you want to complete the story that means finishing every character's stages at least once as those characters.
You also can't search for master general shards as Mario, so I guess you can't beat any game
Sure you can beat any game, it just has to be with the character from the game.
>master general
Embarassing.
What is it about Sonic that it has attracted so much hostility in the past decade?
Sega's marketing turned boys into feral brand warriors.
Furries and yes, they all should get the wall. Fricking animal rapists.
You know 3d sonic games were terrible for the franchise when the Mania intro animation specifically only recognized the 2D games.
>You know 3d sonic games were terrible for the franchise when the Mania intro animation specifically only recognized the 2D games.
Whoa I can't believe the 2d callback game calls back to the 2D games and not the 3D games that they're not referencing nonstop!
This place is so moronic
I mean the 2d Callback game ignored the Rush games and Sonic the Hedgehog 4. Either Sonic sucked after the Genesis days or Mania is just nostalgia wank. Either are bad signs.
I'm pretty sure Mania and Forces canonically connect because of that phantom ruby thing.
Because e-celebs like Egoraptor, that's literally it. I watched a bunch of Japanese streamers play SA1 for the first time and they were having a blast with both Adventure games, those are still remembered as masterpieces there.
>but Big
Big's campaign could be finished in literal minutes if you don't want to play as him. Just position yourself near Froggy (who is always very close to Big's spawn point) and catch him instantly, no one's gonna stop you.
Super Mario 64 could be torn apart just like SA1, for its controls that never feel tight enough, ass-ugly visuals compared to other N64 platformers like Banjo or DK, repetitive music, cryptic missions, etc. But Egoraptor didn't do that, because he was a Nintoddler, so everyone still wanks SM64 off like it's some immortal masterpiece that didn't age.
i just replayed adventure in a single sitting the other day and got through big's campaign in like 15 minutes, i dont understand why people have such a hate boner for it that it actually blocks them from enjoying the entire game, its not even bad, just kinda nothing at the worst since its a very undercooked version of what AM1 was able to accomplish with bass and marine fishing.
Actual autism
Tails and Big and Amy's credits are longer than their stories but autistic frickers blow them up to be bigger than they are
Based moronpost
Because the gameplay is antithetical to platforming. You can at least argue that the other characters all perform platforming to some degree, some less than others, but Big's gameplay is entirely about getting in a spot and staying there to catch a frog or optional fish. It would be one thing if big was an extra character or if his storyline was optional but he's not. It doesn't matter if his gameplay is quick to those who've played the damn game 15 times the reality is that people looking to play a platformer aren't interested in fishing games and may not be good at it despite being excellent at platformers. Why the hell should you force players to play a gameplay format that you didn't even actively advertise? That's why people hate Big and it's completely justified regardless of what your rose tinted goggles tell you.
>That's why people hate Big
That is understandable.
>and it's completely justified
No, it is not. SA is not that hard to be considered a peak online competition sports, it is an adventure. And Big fits in the adventure spirit perfectly.
Of course, there are people, who can't see anythig in the game but gameplay, but this people play wrong game in the first place - they should commit to sport simulators and online PvP games.
Granted, some people expected exclusively platformers and see Adventure more or less the same way GoW fans see modern entries. But then, again, SA is, technically, a standalone series.
>Brings up Esports out of nowhere
What? I said that it's stupid to expect people purchasing a platformer to do a fishing minigame to access the final boss with a completely different character. Let me try and provide a scenario that's a little more quantifiable for you. Imagine if Sonic Adventure demanded that you play the Chao Garden, win a set number of minigames, and level your chao to a minimum level before being able to access Sonic's final boss fight. Would you still be willing to defend this despite it having literally no gameplay elements that resemble Sonic? Of course not because that would be stupid. The same goes for Big and essentially all other characters in Sonic Adventure. Sure the title has Adventure in the title but it's still SONIC Adventure which shouldn't arbitrarily lock off Sonic's content behind other characters.
>Would you still be willing to defend this despite it having literally no gameplay elements that resemble Sonic?
As a matter of fact i would. So far only Sonic, Tails and Amy gameplay are platformer, that resembles Sonic in any way. Sonic Adventure is "Sonic and Friends", not "Sonic Exclusively".
But i don't seek you complaining about Knuckles' gameplay.
From the back of the game's CD case:
>Buckle up and we're talking 5-point harness. Sonic the Hedgehog will propel your Dreamcast info warp-speed 3D adventure. Want Rings? We've got rings. Want chaos emeralds? We've got those too. You want insane graphics, huge levels, puzzles, hidden mini-games, multiple playable characters and more? Oh yeah! We've got it all.
>Features:
>6 playable characters - Each with his/her own skills and abilities.
>Jaw-dropping 3D graphics with unbelievable detail and speed.
>Nearly 50 massive levels, bonus rounds, bosses, and minigames.
>Exclusive A-Life system: Breed and Train Chao characters with the VMU and then race them in Sonic Adventure.
It clearly says "6 playable characters - Each with his/her own skills and abilities". That clearly indicates Sonic as the only one doing the high speed action platforming, everyone has skills and abilities which are different from Sonic's. It also displays art of Sonic, Knuckles, Tails, Big, and Amy on the back, if you saw Big after reading the very first feature of the game and then told me Big could do high-speed action platforming just like Sonic I would laugh in your face for being an imperceptive illiterate.
>Because the gameplay is antithetical to platforming.
Wow, it's almost like Big's gameplay is a short little diversion akin to a mini-game which takes like 15 minutes to finish and isn't supposed to be "platforming" at all.
>Why the hell should you force players to play a gameplay format that you didn't even actively advertise?
The game forces you? Weird. I don't remember that.
>Ignores the only way to fight perfect chaos is to play as big the cat
Come on don't be purposely moronic just because you blindly love the game.
you are not entitled to completionist rewards
Beating the game is not a completionist reward holy shit are you moronic?
Beat the game as all the characters and you unlock a secret boss fight. Would be considered a completionist reward in any other game.
bitches don't know bout my emblems
Perfect Chaos isn't a secret boss, he literally appears in the opening cinematic and is referenced in Sonic's playthrough. How are there idiots like you pretending Perfect Chaos is some optional endgame content? Is Lavos an optional endgame boss because it kills Cronos?
The Super Sonic story literally has a question mark on the character select screen
And Mario Maps are covered in question marks. Is beating Mario a completionist reward?
One question mark hides the reward for beating the game as every character. Another question mark is a central gameplay mechanic (hitting blocks to unveil items).
The secret is how the character model looks in 3D, not the fact Sonic becomes Super Sonic, fricking lol. It's been well established how Sonic collects all the chaos emeralds and becomes Super Sonic by the end of the game, they wanted his model to be revealed during the cutscene when Sonic uses the Chaos Emeralds rather than prematurely blowing their load by showing you on the character select screen.
That's not even the completionist reward. That's the Metal Sonic skin
And no, I don't care if it isn't in the Dreamcast version. Shut up.
>adventure 1
kino but gets boring. too much simplicity, and I say that as someone who grew up with it
>adventure 2
more fun, more challenging
>heroes
kino. i said it 15 years ago and I'll say it again: i love how long the levels actually are instead of lasting 2 fricking minutes. plus the whole multiple gameplay styles means multiple ways to get trough the levels. in fact you can even be smart and "break" the levels, going to some team sonic areas with team rose for example, and that"s fricking kino. it's all replayability and multiple paths
>shadow
too gimmick. actually the levels are weird because they're made in loops. it's closer to the likes of sonic cd
>06
great and wonderful, beautiful in paper but broken game. it's a gorgeous game ruined by the lack of polish in the tech, gameplay stuff. homming attack fricking sucks, sonic is slow af, etc. everything else is kino
>secret rings
loved it, one of my favs. hard to get into at first but once you lvl sonic up it's becomes more and more fun. levels have a lot of charm and attitude, memorable stuff
>black knight
fricking frustrating, it's tedious. levels are all same-y
>unleashed
kino even if i hate boost shit. nothing bad objectively speaking. i loved switching between day and night levels too
>colors
never played it, but looking at it, it started the fall of sonic
>generations
it's what killed sonic. fanservice, meta shit, nostalgia pandering, shallow shit, etc
obviously stopped there, i moved on with my life knowing sonic just was becoming something else post-generations. and frontiers looks pretentious af
still angry no third storybook game was made. those were kino
"Sonic had a... SUPERB transition into 3D! It's aged quite AMAZINGLY too!"
Sonic 3D Blast > Sonic Adventure
1 is meh but 2 is a classic
These games were being shit-on long before "e-celebs" were a thing, you were just kids and didn't see it. They got a good reception on Dreamcast launch but quickly fell by the wayside once 6th gen was in full swing, so they were treated far harsher upon review.
Nah, Sonic very clearly got shat on because of 06 being a complete pile of shit. Nowadays the dude has a normal reception, the only people who still shit on it is ironically enough sonic fans.
>Nah, Sonic very clearly got shat on because of 06 being a complete pile of shit.
You people really need to post how old you were back then or how online you guys were, because there were plenty of people shitting on sonic back then. Even as a 11 year old with way too much unmonitored internet access, I could find plenty of people shitting on the state of sonic without leaving the confines of Sega's official forums. Heroes is what really got the ball rolling but even before then you could find plenty of people saying SA2 was clunky or SA1 wasn't holding up.
>the only people who still shit on it is ironically enough sonic fans.
That was also the case in the early 2000's. The GHZ, a Sonic oldgay haven, was shitting on heroes and even the mega/gems collections and saying Sega's 2000's restructing was the death of ST quality and stopped covering non-Sonic ST games after dreamcast.
You didn't notice this because you were kids. And kids will love that blue hedgehog. I'm coming home from a family gathering and guess what the boys at the kid's table were talking about? Sonic.
>ST
Sexually transmitted?
Sonic Team.
true. The experience of playing any Sonic game from the period of Colors onwards is pretty much
>"hey, that was pretty good"
>go online
>Sonic fans are MAD
>what are they mad about?
>Dr Robotnik says "baldy McNosehairs" or something
>Classic Sonic is in the game, but it's not the "right" classic Sonic
>modern Sonic is in the game, but it's not the "right" modern Sonic
>Sonic's friends appear, but the game "didn't respect them"
>Wisps are in the game, which is bad, apparently
>the game doesn't have enough "momentum"
>"this game didn't have a story!"
>"okay, it had a story, but it's not the one I wanted! I want a serious story! No, not like Forces, that's THE WORST ONE!"
>"Sonic isn't COOL anymore! He's not COOL, like when I was 12!"
>"Why aren't they referencing Maria Robotnik anymore! We need more of that story!"
Okay?
I thought the game was alright. Don't know what to tell you.
Calm down a lil, maybe.
Weirdo.
they have glaring flaws
When I was a kid (SADX) the Big levels would take me a full night of suffering. Playing the Dreamcast version a few years back the Big levels were a breeze. Was I just moronic or did something about the fishing get fricked up in the port?
Both. SADX plays way better with a gamepad. And understanding how Big's fishing works require just a bit of reading and understanding. Which, as a kid, you most likely didn't do and didn't have respectively.
because e-celebs told them it was bad because of a few issues 20 years ago.
physics
What people?
I like first Sonic Adventure. It is really an adventure, quite cool and beautiful one.
What i didn't like about second one is the removal of an Adventure Field.
Initially, because the games fell short of the expectations for such a big franchise. Later on, it just became a meme to shit on Sonic and nitpick every single issue. This flip-flopping between different styles of gameplay, writing and presentation has also fractured the fanbase and everyone has a different idea of what constitutes a "good" Sonic game. I personally only consider the classic games to be truly great, while the 3D ones generally vary between mediocre and pretty good.
>Initially, because the games fell short of the expectations for such a big franchise
LOL!
>tails gunner
i dont remember that minigame, did they remove it later in development?
It’s Sky Chase.
oh, it looks different in that magazine, btw i love sky chase, reminds me of sin and punishment, any time a game turns into a shoot em up i always love it
It’s a homage to Panzer Dragoon. You should look into those if you haven’t.
oh yeah i've heard of them, they look really cool, is the remake good? did they mess too much with it?
The remake is not great, but it's an option if you don't want to emulate the Saturn original.
>reviews
LOL.
But yes, obviously the general opinion didn't set overnight and there were plenty of people defending the Adventure games and calling them classics, but murmuring complaints were quickly rising and by Heroes the "Sonic sucks and doesn't work in 3D" opinion was the widespread one, with the Adventure games starting to be shit on as well.
I remember reading online forums at the time and getting annoyed by all the bandwaggoners who obviously never played any of the games but just had to pipe in with the same regurgitated opinion.
>Adventure is liked
>Heroes is not
>also Adventure isn't either now
Microcosm!
The 3d games were entirely different from the 2d games. It was jarring and most could not acclimate. Most defenders of 3d are either autists or grew up with the 3d games, or both. Sonic was always a 2d pinball-physics arcade-style platformer. The 3d sonics are... whatever the frick they are.
The 3D Sonics are an awkward attempt to translate that to 3D, and then a bunch of new gameplay mechanics had to be added like homing attacks because that wasn't working out
That's because the physics of 3d Sonic game were terrible. If Mario can do it so can Sonic. Sega figured out good 3d ball physics with Super Monkey Ball, so they have no excuse.
Mario doesn't run as fast as they want Sonic to run in 3D. The problem is figuring out how to let Sonic run fast enough while being able to jump on small enemies like he can in the 2D games. Any attempts to fix this without something like a homing attack just end up slowing Sonic down to the point where his main attribute is rendered irrelevant.
>defending homing attack
sorry but this is just horseshit
I grew up with Sonic 1-3K on my Sega Genesis. I played Sonic 3D Blast, Sonic R, and Sonic Jam on my Saturn when they came out as well. I then played Sonic Adventure when it came out on Dreamcast. I had no problems at all with the 3D and enjoyed playing it. I still enjoy playing it to this day.
>can't
Oh well.
3D Sonic was always bad and it had nothing to do with the stupid plots. The best way to demonstrate the failure of 3D Sonic is to compare it's creation to that of 3D Mario. The developers of Super Mario 64 describe how their first and most important task was making Mario fun to control. The idea was that even if he were in a featureless white plain Mario would still be fun to control and they perfected that before anything else. And it worked. Even today it's fun to just mess around jumping and diving like an idiot in Peach's Castle without even playing the levels. Sonic on the other hand is shit to control and they never bothered to fix it. From Adventure to today 3D Sonic has to take control away from the player with boosts and quick-time events etc. all the time because the terrible controls are incapable of playing the game. This is best exemplified by the Homing Attack, the centerpiece of 3D Sonics gameplay and its disgrace. The Homing Attack was literally created because controlling Sonic was so terrible that the only way they could make the game "playable" was to create a "Play the game for me" attack. The Developers have admitted this themselves on the record. If your game plays so badly you need that to make it work, you need to go back and start from scratch. But they didn't, and no 3D Sonic since then has. they are all built of Adventures skeleton and they will remain bad until they stop.
What would you have replaced the homing attack with
better physics
The problem I find with this is that we do have an example of a "sonic game" that was designed without a homing attack, srb2. It even has better physics too.
The lack of a homing attack kind of just sucks in it. Even with the game being designed around it, it means most enemies are non entities and any boss fight that becomes slightly complex becomes a tedious chore (metal sonic fight). Because it actually does suck aiming Sonic at high speeds.
srb2 is a good game, but it still lacks pin-ball physics. There's no just, curling into a ball and letting gravity roll you down a hill. Metroid Prime was able to do this better than any sonic game. It worked so well that they made a pinball game baser around metroid. Part of the fun of killing enemies in 2d Sonics is that you would have to measure your ballistic trajectory and hit the enemies, which could cause you to bounce, as if you hit a bumper in a pinball game. The bounce you could use to add to your momentum or change direction. Homing attack halted all momentum.
I agree with you that getting that to translate into 3d would be challenging, but homing attack is clearly not the answer.
>srb2
sonic robo blast 2? i tought that was a racing game
All Sonic games are racing games in a sense
With good controls. The inherent problem is that Sonic Team has never actually learned how to make controlling 3D Sonic "fun" or make it actually possible for the player to DO anything more complex than "walk forward" with him. They constantly have to take control away from the player to do things like loops or turn the game into DDR with those "switch between left middle and right lanes" sections that the Boost games do. They've never even bothered to design a camera that can point in more than one direction, even Mario 64 with its awkward camera could do that. The issue with your problem is you already start with the assumption that "Sonic controls bad" and thus has to require something, whether it be the Homing Attack or you're theoretical replacement, to make it workable. But the real solution is that Sonic should not control bad in the first place. He needs to be pulled out by the root and redesigned from scratch. Preferably by someone with no prior knowledge of 3D Sonic games.
>But the real solution is that Sonic should not control bad in the first place. He needs to be pulled out by the root and redesigned from scratch. Preferably by someone with no prior knowledge of 3D Sonic games.
This so much.
The homing attack exists to fix the same issue present in Mario 64. Jumping on a Goomba in SMB is easy, jumping on one in 64 is inherently more complex. That’s why they gave Mario a huge, needlessly so, moveset. Punches, kicks, jump kicks, dives, slide kicks, sweep kicks, all to replace the jump. Then Sunshine replaced that with an aimable water cannon. Then later games straight up gave Mario an omnidirectional spin attack.
>jumping on one in 64 is inherently more complex
Relative to SMB, yes, but compared to SA, no, not at all. The physics allowed for decent platforming in SMB64 and one can easily execute jumping on enemies with a little skill/practice. Jumping on enemies in SA is moronic due to bad physics, and made redundant due to the Homing Attack. SMS and SMG is just baby-mode, with worse physics than SM63. They're not improvements.
You get what I’m saying, but still somewhat miss the point.
Nintendo themselves evidently weren’t confident in Mario’s ability to stomp enemies in 3D. So I just find the Mario 64-Sonic Adventure comparison on this point a bit lacking. Sonic was expected to nail jumping on enemies in 3D when Mario gained an entire moveset so you didn’t have to in 64?
>Sonic was expected to nail jumping on enemies in 3D when Mario gained an entire moveset so you didn’t have to in 64?
Why wouldn't you have to in Mario 64? Jumping on enemies works fine, or at least, well enough. If you prefer to punch and kick them, that's your own personal preference, but I reject the idea that the developers gave Mario a diverse offensive moveset to "replace" Mario jumping on enemies instead of just wanting Mario to have various fun controls to play with.
You obviously never played Sonic Adventure. It's easy as hell to jump on enemies, including multiple ones at once.
yeah. with a homing attack
hey i just got done replaying this game! im starting adventure 2 tomorrow
It's only the console war gays who hate those games.
Agreed. Sonic Adventure 1 & 2 were the best 3D Sonic games, they were better than Super Mario 64 and Crash Bandercoot, which pisses off fanboys.
i don't know. at least in regarding adventure 1 and 2. they're pretty flawed games but i can still love them a lot anyway. i personally just never got the hate. oh and people who say people hate them because of e-celebs are wrong. these games have ALWAYS been shit on.
Because they're bad games. Sonic Adventure 2 gets a pass because of the arcade style nature of the game and interesting plot and use of the cast. The rest are garbage
If they were bad games, they wouldn't be fondly remembered, nor would they sell well.
It's because they haven't played 2D sonic games yet
I HAVE TO GET THE COMPLETIONIST REWARD! I HAVE TO SEE EVERYTHING IN THE GAME! I HAVE TO I HAVE TO! BIG RUINED THE GAME BECAUSE I CAN'T JUST PLAY SONIC!
You literally have to play Big to play Super Sonic see the end of Sonic's story. Like anyone isn't going to want to do that.
>Like anyone isn't going to want to do that.
Which is it? The story sucks or it doesn't?
>I have to beat the game according to its own guidelines; I can't just press the WIN button and magically see all the content!?
Zoomers gonna zoom.
>Bad Game design should always be accepted because you're a loser schmuck for wanting anything better
Boomers gonna Boom
You say this but I bet you're the same homosexual that complained about Sonic Heroes locking off it's final boss behind the completion of all 4 teams.
Nah
sonic heroes final boss lock is fricking bullshit, in sa1, 2, and 06 all the stories are different so its worth playing them all. in heroes its literally the same game 3 times with different difficulty and then a shitty collectathon minigame that got repurposed for shadows game for some reason.
Because it genuinely feels like a game made for babies and lacking any of the charm that the 2D sonic games had.
I played these games a shitload when I was very young. Sonic Adventure DX was the first game for the first console I ever owned. And I spent so much time playing SA2B in elementary school. Though I will be honest, 90% was spent either in the Chao Garden or grinding out chaos drives. I was obsessed with that shit. But I never actually managed to raise a Chaos Chao, so every now and then I get the itch to boot up the Steam version and raise a Chaos Chao but oh my God. Maybe my brain is fried but the Chao Garden is so slow and monotonous. I know I could use mods or hacks or glitches to speed up the leveling and grinding, but I've always been averse to that. I think when I was a kid, I was just so hooked on the emotional aspect of raising these cute little creatures and had so much free time that I didn't care and had fun.
So I guess the actual gameplay of Adventure 1 and 2 are okay but the Chao Garden is where it's at if you're 10 or younger. Otherwise it's a snoozefest.
They literally are a huge step down from Sonic 3. I don't know why this is debatable to people now.
Sonic 3 is a fantastic epic of a game. Peak Megadrive gaming. Peak mascott platforming in a lot of ways.
The SA games are all over the place. They're charming, but they're kind of fricked. And not in a "this aged" kind of way. In a "I played this as a kid, and knew something was wrong even then" kind of way. I've got a fondness for them, but it's true.
It genuinely boggles my mind reading repeat reviews or seeing videos of SA1 that say "Despite the janky controls...." what the actual frick are you talking about, this game controls perfectly, probably the best movement of any platformer ever made. genuinely what did they mean by this? Every video you see of this shit is them like standing on a moving car and sonic twitching and theyre like "huehuehue fans like this game for its EXCELLENT controls!! lolololol!"
It’s a game of telephone at this point, there’s plenty of jank in the adventure games but none of it is control related, Sonic feels way better to control than any other 3D game
>Sonic feels way better to control than any other 3D game