Not even remotely the same as other languages. You learn words, sure, but unlike Japanese, you don't have to learn what words look like. You can sound out a word letter by letter and identify it phonetically. This is not possible with Kanji.
You're either baiting or genuinely moronic. You can still read words even if you don't know them because the alphabet exists, you fricking Black person
you don't learn individual kanji, you learn the system that is kanji, the parts that make up the whole...once you've done that, everything falls into place and you can usually understand kanji you don't actually know
how tf do i learn that stuff
i'm tired of looking at kanjis and seeing nothing but random scribbles, i know there are radicals and ways to guess readings and meanings but i dont know where to start
it's just memorisation of basic rules and patterns. if you know 忍 is read as nin, you will recognise it in 認, which guess what, is also read as nin. of course it doesn't always work, but you just need to immerse yourself in kanji and start paying attention to the patterns the same way you'd learn your times tables
one thing that could be helpful is learning the kangxi radicals, so when you split down 細胞 into individual parts you can form mnemonics or just visual recognition in your mind. Each learner is different, so it might not do any good for you at all and you're better off going straight into the core deck.
you need to learn words not kanji. You can learn a few each day, you just have to start
I've been testing methods for the past year and the most optimal / best approach I tried so far is:
learn joyo kanji by usefulness level
look up at least 3 words that include that individual kanji, write them on a notepad
aim for 25 kanji a day, once you reach 100 spend the rest of the week revising them/previous ones that you can't recognise just by looking at them.
this is coming from someone who tried anki(lol) and heisig's and I can safely tell you they're not worth it if you actually want to read japanese.
>kanji is hard
it's just memorization. the hard part is recognizing words in katakana because you're literally reading broken english.
how tf do i learn that stuff
i'm tired of looking at kanjis and seeing nothing but random scribbles, i know there are radicals and ways to guess readings and meanings but i dont know where to start
https://i.imgur.com/VDZBN2N.png
Why is japanese so fricking hard bros?
It's meant to be gaijin and Black proff, so if you truly respect their culture then quit batching and start devoting yourself to it and studying it.
Just wanting to learn jap talk so you can frick some Japanese b***h or read a Manga is ignorant shit
You want to be able to recognize whole worlds instead. 懐中電灯 looks really complicated, but it means flashlight. When I tried figuring it out kanji by kanji I struggled like a motherfricker, but now its easy for me. I recognize the two middle ones (within, electric power) almost instantly due to how common they are and my brain just "puts it together" in the same way I see a complicated English word and my brain just connects the dots without me thinking of each letter, their sound individually and finally how they sound combined
But its complicated I'm 32 and have been studying for 6 years and I still have problems.
You don't, grab a grammar book and an online kanji dictionary.
Next grab reading material, I picked VN's since it's ez to extract text for quick translation.
Now carefully read and mine sentences, extract their full meaning using the combination of the grammar book and looking up whatever kanji comes up in your preferred dictionary.
The process might be a bit slow in the beginning, however you make massive gains exponentially.
When you complete one VN, the next one takes almost a fraction of the time you spend on the first one and the ones after will be so understandable, you won't even find yourself looking up anything but obscure phrases and yojijukugo that chuunishit tends to throw on the screen.
Anki is a great method but please please start reading and consuming actual Japanese works, don't spend an eternity on isolated kanji study.
The trick into traditional is to separate it into little parts.
For example, OP's 鐵 has 金, which is metal. 呈which looks like working on an anvil, and at last 戈 is armament. Put them together and you'll get 鐵(iron)
>simple >go for the easy route of using a similar sound part and lose all the symbolism in the process.
>has 金 on the left >土 on the top+戈. a lot of characters do that (e.g. 載) >呈 is a kanji you should know
Also that's the old form of 鉄. If you see it used at all these it's because nips are superstitious as frick and want to avoid 失 (means loss). Also >he thinks moonrunes are the hardest part and not onomatopoeic/mimetic shit like ふらふら, きちんと, ばっちり, ぐっと, さらさら, etc.
ngmi
>the hard part is recognizing words in katakana because you're literally reading broken english.
yeah pretty much this
you have to actually sound them out like a jap in order to actually understand what borrowed word they're using
The problem isn't reading the katakana for the most part. The problem really is just figuring out what they mean cause're basically playing an English telephone game with fricking Japanese people in the middle.
Yes, but if you encounter a new katakana word, you'd still have to look it up or try to figure it out yourself, which leads to the initial problem. Or you see it in the browser and hover over it with your Japanese reading aid extension like the little pleb you are.
That image is how I'm starting to feel about Japanese. Learning German and some other European languages would benefit me a thousand times more... Maybe I should switch
>took the meme seriously
wew, lad.
[...]
[...] >You will never be fluent
I know a guy who went to japan to study the language. He hated the school and failed big time, just went outside partying with locals and shit all day. The guy spent so much time with local japanese people that he became fluent in speech after about 3 years living there. The guy can't read or write for shit, but he speak the language perfectly and is doing fine.
If you have the will to do something you shouldn't give up on it.
>he became fluent in speech after about 3 years living there.
Good for him. >The guy can't read or write for shit
How? I mean, holy shit, if I can remember the runes (I can't avoid autistically subvocalizing the parts in my head as I read. after about 2 years I can recall most of them), but not he words.
"knowing" the language and being able to speak it are two different things. this is the case for most ESLs across the world for example
the only solution is to expose yourself to it
It's a serious meme. Uselessly learning a useless language to spend time uselessly playing previously unaccessible useless timewasters. It's only slightly more productive than playing vidya and browsing Ganker, but it's still useless.
I might just be a moron, but I like learning languages because they are fun.
And compared to European languages with all the wishy and wavy mouth movements (apart from Finnish :DDD), Japanese is much more familiar to my mouth since I'm a turk, although pitch accents still sometimes filter me
>Uselessly learning a useless language
I had to learn French in school. I have never gotten any mileage out of it. With nip, I can at least enjoy vidya.
Besides, if we followed your argument to its logical conclusion, unprofitable hobbies like numismatics and philately wouldn't exist.
I also learned French in school, but it helped me make a girl spill her spaghetti once. A freshly arrived French girl said "il est mignon~" about me to her friends, to which I replied Thanks. Felt pretty smug. French can be great.
I'm also into learning languages as a hobby, but I just came to terms with Japanese not being as useful. Most of the games I've wanted to play have been translated anyway
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Most of the games I've wanted to play have been translated anyway
I used to think like that until one of these threads opened my eyes to the folly of troonylators.
2 years ago
Anonymous
both of those are horrible
2 years ago
Anonymous
God commie are the worst
2 years ago
Anonymous
Needs a Funi version that complains about rape culture.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>troonylators
I hate them so much. The Team Lifebottle Tales of Destiny community translation patch was a glorious project I was happy to shill everywhere, but turns out there's some new closed project now making their own version to it? Just why.
These homosexuals want to subvert and put their influence on anything.
Though I think if you mastered Jap somewhat, instead of keeping things to yourself, you should at least contribute by translating scripts and such.
2 years ago
Anonymous
this is why I'm studying japanese as "a hobby". frick troonylators for ruining most media
2 years ago
Anonymous
This is fake, right?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>This is fake, right?
What do you mean? Have another.
Most likely off-topic, but >be ESL >move away from home country >become more and more exposed to English >you start to think in English >you primarily speak in English >slowly start to forget your own tongue's vocab >have to look up on Google Translate for YOUR OWN WORDS
It's fricking embarrassing. And I don't know what to do. Do I just pick up a book and try to keep it fresh?
start to forget your own tongue's vocab
This is one of my prime fears. The worst part is when you want to use words that exist in one language with no straightforward equivalent in the other (e.g. patronize, condescend, bizarre).
2 years ago
Anonymous
Gunvolt fan here: absolutely not. The right-side is the original 3DS translation where they also completely removed all the dialogue you can have in your apartment with the girl Joule. There's a menu option "Talk to Joule" and it does frick all, I legit thought my game was bugged until I looked it up.
It's called illiteracy anon.
There are still millions of them all over the world, they can live just fine too.
Even parrots can learn how to talk, it's the easiest part of learning a new language
That image is how I'm starting to feel about Japanese. Learning German and some other European languages would benefit me a thousand times more... Maybe I should switch
Frick. None of those are untrue. A-At least I'm training my brain's plasticity right?
That image is how I'm starting to feel about Japanese. Learning German and some other European languages would benefit me a thousand times more... Maybe I should switch
>You will never be fluent
I know a guy who went to japan to study the language. He hated the school and failed big time, just went outside partying with locals and shit all day. The guy spent so much time with local japanese people that he became fluent in speech after about 3 years living there. The guy can't read or write for shit, but he speak the language perfectly and is doing fine.
If you have the will to do something you shouldn't give up on it.
>YOU ARE WASTING YOUR TIME
Sometimes I really feel this but then I remember that if I stopped studying I'd just waste all that excess time shitposting on Ganker anyway.
you will never be japanese filthy amerimutt scum, eat lead and die goddamn piece of garbage, also japanese are just freaking garbage so FRICK YA ALL, YAHOWH SIEG HEIL!!!!
>age of the internet >the greatest library in the history of human civilization just waits at out fingertips with a <1s response time >>how tf do u lern summink?
I've grinded anki every day for 3 or 4 years. I reached the end of my anki deck and I find it very difficult to incorporate actual reading in my daily routine. It was so much easier to just do my daily new cards and reviews. Does anyone have any good ideas for how to incorporate reading in a similar manner? Are 'reading flashcards' a thing?
that's... fricking impressive but also moronic. you really just learned words for 4 years every day without ever at least being curious about moving onto particles, grammar, sentences, immersing with actual materials, etc?
I grinded anki for 6 months before giving up on it and switching to just playing vidya every day. Never looked back. Frick anki autists for pushing that shit on everyone.
>every day for 3 or 4 years
how. in less than 3 weeks shit piled up so bad that i quit. i can't imagine learning 20 fricking new squiggily lines every day and then recall the last 1000 vocabulary too. >hard to memorize a certain kanji >would see the same card 100 times before i "get it" only to do same thing the next day to the same card
frick anki seriously.
>3 or 4 years
Damn. I've grinded a core deck for 8 months (~3k words) and I felt I've wasted my time. Same word mined by myself and with my own sentence is so much easier to remember than from some random deck.
You can go through 30k words in 10 years and that still won't prepare you for reading. The sooner you start actually using the language, the better.
If I could go back, I'd only learn a 1000 words before reading.
just play pokemon. that shit is made for kids and has the option for kana/kanji/furigana if you desire
Yeah, but I'd rather play something I want to play.
I grinded anki for 6 months before giving up on it and switching to just playing vidya every day. Never looked back. Frick anki autists for pushing that shit on everyone.
It's very useful as an addition, but only an addition, to consooming the language. Especially when you can't consoom, but have a moment to review a couple of words, while at work, waiting for a bus etc.
>Damn. I've grinded a core deck for 8 months (~3k words) and I felt I've wasted my time. Same word mined by myself and with my own sentence is so much easier to remember than from some random deck. >You can go through 30k words in 10 years and that still won't prepare you for reading. The sooner you start actually using the language, the better. >If I could go back, I'd only learn a 1000 words before reading.
I went through the core 6k deck and had my own mining deck as well. Yeah, I imagine stopping after a while and just reading would have done a lot more for my reading comprehension and grammar, both of which are still complete shit.
>every day for 3 or 4 years
how. in less than 3 weeks shit piled up so bad that i quit. i can't imagine learning 20 fricking new squiggily lines every day and then recall the last 1000 vocabulary too. >hard to memorize a certain kanji >would see the same card 100 times before i "get it" only to do same thing the next day to the same card
frick anki seriously.
>how. in less than 3 weeks shit piled up so bad that i quit. i can't imagine learning 20 fricking new squiggily lines every day and then recall the last 1000 vocabulary too.
I did 10 new cards per day at the start, but as you said it piled up too much and I lowered it. At the end I was only doing 2-4 new cards per day. It was easy to do after I woke up, before work and didn't take very long.
All "Core" Anki decks are based on newspapers from early 90s and sometimes additionally sorted in a way that makes learning harder. The cards format also tends to be WCC instead of a more efficient TSC. Ankidrone Starter Pack is made from a completely different corpus, everyday words used commonly in Japan. You should use Ankidrone Starter Pack.
Targeted sentence cards are a thing.
https://tatsumoto.neocities.org/blog/discussing-various-card-templates.html#targeted-sentence-cards-or-mpvacious-cards
I've been grinding anki for two years and I've yet to find a word I haven't encountered in media I use the language for (vidya and watching vtubers). And that's before I started my own deck by literally adding everything I encounter that I can't read at a glance. You've got to supplement your learning with immersion for real examples of words you've learned. And yes anki sentence flashcards are a thing too if you want that too.
I never understand the point of making a thread b***hing about something you can't do. does that ever help anyone finding motivation to get them back to grinding that to them seems impossible?
Finishing my first game in Japanese. Shit took easily 10x more time than it would take in English.
How is the new Live A Live? Good choice for learning Japanese for a beginner? Does it have a lot of hard/rare kanji?
>blaming the medium >not the problems that led you to isolate yourself from friends and family
absolutely moronic.
how do you even read the little details these if you don't have a perfect sight without getting closer/squinting your eyes? impractical ass language
You recognize them from outlines/familiarity, etc.
>3 or 4 years
Damn. I've grinded a core deck for 8 months (~3k words) and I felt I've wasted my time. Same word mined by myself and with my own sentence is so much easier to remember than from some random deck.
You can go through 30k words in 10 years and that still won't prepare you for reading. The sooner you start actually using the language, the better.
If I could go back, I'd only learn a 1000 words before reading.
[...]
Yeah, but I'd rather play something I want to play.
[...]
It's very useful as an addition, but only an addition, to consooming the language. Especially when you can't consoom, but have a moment to review a couple of words, while at work, waiting for a bus etc.
Anki has been a mixed bag for me. Flashcards helped some things stick, and the audio got me used to how the language sounds (neutrally). On the other hand, they don't quite teach one how to use words in context which sucks. They also won't teach nuances between words (I've seen action translated as 動作, 行為, 活用, 活躍, 作業, etc. which one the frick should I use?) >Especially when you can't consoom, but have a moment to review a couple of words, while at work, waiting for a bus etc.
Pretty much what I've been doing with it.
It seems you guys have never used Anki for anything besides rigid vocab -> meaning stuff.
If you want to learn all synonyms to a word, make a randomized list of items with one randomly clozed out. That way, you will have to fill in the missing item of a sequence just like the one you posted, 動作, 行為, 活用, 活躍, 作業: e.g. 動作, 行為, [...], 活躍, 作業
If you make an important realization, write that down, at best, turn it into a flashcard, and have the program make you actively recall it. You may want to use more generous scheduling for that.
Maybe make a figure of some idea and use image occlusion add-ons to cloze certain parts of the figure. You can definitely be creative with it and active recall will always be superior to passive reading, when it comes to learning (afaik it is the best way to learn on your own. Of course a tutor directly addressing your weaknesses would be best).
he's a spook trying to rob people of japanese gains
note how his advice on how to figure out which word you should use in different contexts is to literally memorize every single word whose meaning is even tangentially related to the word you want to use
that pic is honestly fairly basic wenyan/hanbun/kanbun, etc. Natives can definitely read it, though it's used less and less. Only China seems to put an increasingly bigger emphasis on it, which is definitely for nationalistic reasons (specifically to make it seem like everything else in East Asia is derivative of China). Most more scholarly people I have met basically know the entire corpus of Chinese philosophy and related chengyu by heart but couldn't talk about a single Western thinker if their life depended on it.
>I wish either my father or my mother, or indeed both of them, as they were in duty both equally bound to it, had minded what they were about when they begot me; had they duly consider’d how much depended upon what they were then doing;—that not only the production of a rational Being was concerned in it, but that possibly the happy formation and temperature of his body, perhaps his genius and the very cast of his mind;—and, for aught they knew to the contrary, even the fortunes of his whole house might take their turn from the humours and dispositions which were then uppermost;—Had they duly weighed and considered all this, and proceeded accordingly,—I am verily persuaded I should have made a quite different figure in the world, from that in which the reader is likely to see me.
>spend your one chance at existence slaving for mister shekelstein in a no future world instead of NEETslacking
Keep paying your taxes so I can live free, wagecattle.
Who have thought that dropping the kid in front of the tv all day and never interacting with it would lead to stunted emotional and social development?
You don't have to. Your brain is a pattern-recognition machine. One cursory look at a kanji is enough for your brain to recognize it as a certain word.
For the last time, you learn words not individual kanji.
Once you reach a critical mass of knowledge kanji actually helps you read japanese better, this is the case even if you don't individually memorize singular kanji in isolation like some goons do with those programs I forget the names of
How? Its very tedious to memorize how entire words look, you just have to imprint all these nonsense squigglys in your mind. But with individual kanji you have the option to use stuff like Kodansha Kanji Learners Course that explains each kanji so that you can see it as an image depicting its meaning
>Why is japanese so fricking hard bros?
It's not. It only looks hard to people who don't know how to learn it the right way. Read https://tatsumoto.neocities.org/
I tried to learn Mandarin together with it, to make Kanji easier to understand. Got burnt out lol.
Katakana is also moronic. The fact you can get borrowed words wrong and aren't breaking the English language like you should is so stupid
Learning Mandarin isn't that useful for Japanese (something like Cantonese or Hokkien may be better but again, overall not that useful). You could've learned Classical Chinese since that was, more or less, East Asia's lingua franca for almost two millenia and it was still used in Japan in the 20th century (see the Emperor of Japan's surrender in WW2, for instance).
Learning Mandarin isn't that useful for Japanese (something like Cantonese or Hokkien may be better but again, overall not that useful). You could've learned Classical Chinese since that was, more or less, East Asia's lingua franca for almost two millenia and it was still used in Japan in the 20th century (see the Emperor of Japan's surrender in WW2, for instance).
but I should mention that Classical Chinese is much harder to get proficient in than any other language I know of and the usefulness for Japanese certainly stops at a certain point. You may be able to derive or explain grammatically some obscure yojijukugo taken from the classics but it's most likely not useful for video games or whatever your interest is. Classical languages in general are really difficult and often times only written.
Learning Mandarin isn't that useful for Japanese (something like Cantonese or Hokkien may be better but again, overall not that useful). You could've learned Classical Chinese since that was, more or less, East Asia's lingua franca for almost two millenia and it was still used in Japan in the 20th century (see the Emperor of Japan's surrender in WW2, for instance).
Yeah I'm close to giving up on Mandarin. No way I'd be able to handle Classical or even Cantonese
Cantonese and the like are much more autistic when it comes to tones and even still use the entry tone, although are still more similar by Japanese by virtue of not being that different to Middle Chinese, which I believe Japanese borrowed lots of readings for kanji from (as opposed to Mandarin; you don't see x or q in Japanese, which I believe are unique to Mandarin, plus, Mandarin really was more of an "official" language in these days; vernacular Mandarin wasn't that common). But even Cantonese (mainly due to Hong Kong) has special symbols no other language has and every-day language is definitely much influenced by English, again, due to Hong Kong. I don't think there is all that much use in learning a Sino-Tibetan language just for Japanese when all Japanese did is borrow vocabulary from that; it's like learning Italian to speak Tigrinya.
I can also assure you that most natives can only "understand", as in get the gist (but often not full meaning) of, Classical Chinese but not tell you why it's written as it is, i.e. most people know jack shit about Classical grammar, so its overall use is fairly niche, but probably bigger than Middle Chinese.
The only really interesting thing I know about Mandarin and Japanese specifically is that Mandarin has its own corpus of weeb vocabulary and even some grammatical particles that are used in translations of Japanese stuff (though rather unofficial stuff, like fan translations).
Well it's not only for Japanese, I also learn it out of my own interest. It's just that the accent thing is really difficult to get into. I learn a bit of it on Memrise, and I'm really tired of getting the accents wrong in exercises. I can hear the difference, but my brain just doesn't want to process it
Well it's not only for Japanese, I also learn it out of my own interest. It's just that the accent thing is really difficult to get into. I learn a bit of it on Memrise, and I'm really tired of getting the accents wrong in exercises. I can hear the difference, but my brain just doesn't want to process it
Just wanna add, I was interested in Mandarin specifically. I'll try to forget about it as a Japanese accessory and just learn a bit for its own sake. Thanks for the explanation on it and the relation to Japanese.
Cantonese sounds off to me, and classical sounds hard. I'll just keep doing my 5-15 minutes a day of it. It wakes up my brain when I do it in the morning, it's also interesting.
kanji aren't even the worst part, or most difficult part of japanese, it's actually all the fricking grammar shit with hiragana that completely changes the meaning of a sentence.
once you know about 300/500 kanji everything is easier
今日は友達と学校に行きました
is much much much better to read than
きょうは ともだちと がっこうに いきました
i don't know... lumping grammar and normal words or verbs is so weird and confusing, kanji helps you with that
Kanji and vocab are complete meme. Grammar is infinitely harder. Frick all these bullshit rules and exceptions and verb tenses and particles I'm going insane.
What exceptions are you talking about? The only true difficult part about grammar is when you have 5+ that mean essentially the same thing but have really moronic nuances
I've been binging on 2ch yukkuri threads on youtube for a while now and I realized recently that I've basically been doing the equivalent of watching tts Ganker greentext videos
>2ch yukkuri threads on youtube
Can you link one? Are they reading of full threads?
Only Youtube learning I did was Kimagure cook with youtube autosubs
>Can you link one?
there's probably dozens of channels out there doing the same thing >Are they reading of full threads?
they're usually cut down to just the relevant parts of the thread
Oh boy that's way better than what I expected. Bookmarked. Thanks!
2ch greentexts can be great and kino. Have you read molester man or train man yet?
I also remember I've watched the entirety of Piropito's Blind Minecraft playthrough. It was pretty good.
>anki >get word I've definitely encountered before >completely forgot what it means or how to read it >suddenly understanding literally pops up from my subconsciousness because my brain passively remembered it >it was correct
Maybe you should do something about your early-on-set Alzheimer's and not shitpost on Ganker? For the record, memorizing 3 words for 5 minutes (while other faculties are evaluated, such as fine motor skill) is a part of the most common Alzheimer's test.
Should've used the term "nonsensical syllables" as opposed to "words", and yes, that is exactly the case. According to Ebbinghaus, 80% of such "arbitrary" knowledge should still persist after 20 minutes.
In any case, get your short-term memory checked.
France does stuff.. They also translate a lot of great and obscure Manga. How's your French?
I'd rather learn French but they only have like 1-2 good cartoons so it's not worth it compared to the dozens of seasonal shows and hundreds of monthly manga/novel chapters Japan shits out.
Only 1-2 cartoons that you know of. The Indie animation scene over there is still good probably despite the everworsening political situation.
Learning both Japanese and French would be good.
Have you seen a recent the French made of some Manga? It's Netflix, but I've read that it's faithful and interesting:
its like one step up from hieroglyphics (or maybe a step down), very inefficient language system but asia is autistic rote memorization personified so what're you gonna do
>autistic rote memorization personified
You could not have described the Japanese language any better. Compared to Chinese, Japanese takes it to a whole other level with their kanji being able to possess multiple pronunciations AND with an unpredictable amount of syllables because frick you. It's an esoteric language taken to its logical extreme. Makes perfect sense on a small scale but then some smartass thought it would be a good idea to apply it all across the board.
Start by learning and memorizing hiragana.
Once you know every symbol and recognize it instantly, learn katakana.
It should keep you occupied for the next 4 months or less. Come back and ask later what to do next. Hiragana is your definite first step though.
>Once you know every symbol and recognize it instantly, learn katakana.
I still process some of it instantly when I'm reading something two years after I started with kanji. It's easier to just learn it to the point where you can test yourself on it well and then move on to other things, kana is something you'll just encounter naturally.
Step 1: Learn hiragana and katakana https://tatsumoto.neocities.org/blog/learning-kana-in-two-days.html
Step 1.1. Learn some basic vocab and kanji https://tatsumoto.neocities.org/blog/learning-kanji.html
Step 2: Learn extremely basic grammar/sentence structure. https://tatsumoto.neocities.org/blog/learning-grammar.html is a good place to start.
Step 3: Read, watch, listen to native content. Use Japanese subs and mpv scripts.
Use Anki to make Targeted Sentence Cards, not vocab or word cards. Literally just spend time with the language, look up words you don't know in a dictionary, look up grammar points in a grammar dictionary (like this index https://tatsumoto.neocities.org/blog/resources.html#grammar). Keep immersing.
It takes time but that's LITERALLY all you need to do.
>Be 70+ year old language-gay >Decide to be a v-tuber >Drop several years worth of pure gold in free Japanese lessons >Die
Honor her memory, homosexual.
>A lot of what she talked about can be found in the books that she mentions without the ear rape.
True, but even those books still have a lot of moments that where they try to translate meanings instead of using literal translations and explaining how the metaphor works. Plus you can listen to her videos when you're cooking/cleaning ect.
>Spend 8 years learning Japanese >Can play games like Final Fantasy and every now and again have to consult a dictionary. >Can have reasonable conversations about everyday things in Japanese. > Cannot understand a single line of dialogue of any native material.
>I stopped seeing the point
Don't you want to be able to play your favorite vidya without having to go through pozzed troonylizers who keep changing the original dialogue at their whim to fit their political agenda?
How the frick do people even begin to learn kanji?
I speak 4 fricking languages(that are all pretty different from eachother) fluently and I genuinely can not wrap my head around starting to learn japanese
>How the frick do people even begin to learn kanji?
By starting at the very bottom and working your way up like a grade school student. You don't fricking learn shit like the OP image from the get go. You're supposed to start out with the easier ones which make up the building blocks for the more complex ones as you go.
Take this image as a guide and look them up individually on jisho or whatever to learn the stroke order.
the katakana is always going to be grouped with other katakana, while the kanji is either going to be by itself or with other kanji, usually at the end
While learning using duolingo (yes i'm aware it's dog shit most of the times), i was in the "time" section, "ha" became "wa" when translating and i'm not sure if it's duo being a massive mongoloid or if it's an obscure japanese rule.
"Ima wa juu ji tbh." was written "ima ha juu ji tbh.".
While learning using duolingo (yes i'm aware it's dog shit most of the times), i was in the "time" section, "ha" became "wa" when translating and i'm not sure if it's duo being a massive mongoloid or if it's an obscure japanese rule.
"Ima wa juu ji tbh." was written "ima ha juu ji tbh.".
Yeah, it's just a special case with は when it's a standalone character functioning as its own word.
I'm sure there's some highly interesting story behind that which a linguistics nerd could tell you.
[...]
Yeah, it's just a special case with は when it's a standalone character functioning as its own word.
I'm sure there's some highly interesting story behind that which a linguistics nerd could tell you.
[...]
Yeah, it's just a special case with は when it's a standalone character functioning as its own word.
I'm sure there's some highly interesting story behind that which a linguistics nerd could tell you.
It's a remnant of historical orthography that iirc they kept because people were too used to it, and you see the particles all the time because they're always written in Kana.
A lot of the reform stuff that changed spelling you wouldn't see much because the parts that got changed are hidden by Kanji, so you wouldn't write them out in Kana.
What's happening with the particles is that at some point, almost every H not at the beginning of a word got turned into W in pronunciation, and in modern Japanese every W except for "Wa" has lost the W altogether. Particles are treated as part of the word they're attached to, so this change affected them as well.
So は sounds like わ, へ sounds like え, and を sounds like お
The same change gives us 藤 Fuji + 原 Hara turning into Fujiwara for example.)
There's a few words like 母 or アヒル that resisted the change, so it's not for every word.
they either use mnemonics (kanjidamage) or the jp1k method where you train yourself to get used to reading kanji by learning words with furigana
https://tatsumoto.neocities.org/blog/learning-kanji.html
Just learn radicals (there's only like 214 of them) to recognize the building blocks and then jump into vocabulary. Kanji in isolation is a waste of time.
Kanji is incredibly easy to learn. Time consuming but easy. And despite the characters getting more complicated, it gets easier as you go because you learn the radicals and have an easier time fighting in new kanji into your preexisting knowledge.
The grammar is a fricking nightmare though, as is learning the subtleties of social cues.
so you stopped consuming media even in english? your reasoning only makes sense if you don't enjoy anything that can be obtained in japanese
if you dont like anime, watch movies
if you dont like movies, play games
if you dont like games, read books/blogs/novels
animelon is just a very easy to digest resource because the subs are already there and an optional translation is 2 clicks away, while also providing a scriptlog for quick flashcard creation. it's the fastest and least complicated method, but if you hate anime, just do anything else in the language instead
75% or more of your immersion will be done with anime, especially for the first few years because you cannot understand much else. You will not be able to just pick up a novel and read it after say, six months. It just won't happen. Your primary way of interacting with Japanese will be anime. So if you get sick of anime, you're screwed. And besides, you can leaern Japanese pretty okay within 5 years, but getting really good is a decade long process at least and if you don't live in the country, that's going to come by way of media and study. So what? Am I going to be nearly 40 still drilling Anki decks and dedicating an hour a day to watching Japanese movies? No. Honestly, this is probably why all the really successful learners start very young. It has less to do with neuroplasticity and more to do with being able to tolerate endless amounts of anime fpr years, and you can only really do that without going crazy as a teenager or very young adult.
anyone who says kanji is hard is full of shit.
what really filters learners is the fricking grammar.
I know over 500+ kanji and I struggle to understand what the sentence means until I read it backwards. That's how fricked up the grammar is in Japanese.
Kanji are literally objectively superior to an alphabet in the amount of information per symbol. The only advantage of an alphabet is that morons get to play too.
Objectively, sure. In practical terms though, frick no. It's very telling when even nips who grew up knowing nothing but Japanese still couldn't read shit that strays ever so slightly into uncommon territory. How is that not considered a flaw?
>Kanji are literally objectively superior to an alphabet in the amount of information per symbol.
Yes if it made sense, but unfortunately it doesn't help everytime and requires serious dedication to learn: >The usual subject, verb, complement becomes subject, complement, verb (could easily be learned but can definitely be a throw off) >Hiragana / katakana, which can be easily learned even if it takes quite some time to memorize properly >Adding "tsu" to double the next word's letter >Adding a small character to change the word's pronounciation >Combining kanjis with eachother for a brand new word
Just all of these can throw people from learning.
Not really, no. The other students and the teachers were definitely good people but I'm an asocial moron so I didn't keep in contact with any of them. I also spent about $15,000 USD on tuition, plane tickets and living expenses since I refused to be a cashier or restaurant front attendant since that's all you get as job offers over there.
Yeah, I'd only recommend physically traveling to Japan to learn the language if you're 18-24 years old (specially if you're female) and actually intend on doing something there like attending university or building some long-lasting contacts for business otherwise it's mostly a waste of money.
i'm probably already good enough to have a good time there right now, but i'll study a few more years and then go into their arcades to play fightan games with them
I've been playing Gunparade March the past day or two. It was pretty funny when I realised that the ecchi mood music was basically copy pasted for Artificial Academy a decade later, same with half the game systems.
>frick text books >do 9000 anki reps a day >just like watch anime 10 hours a day >morons still can't read or speak for shit after years of doing that >meanwhile most people who just take a Japanese course in uni exit with N1 fluency
>Tired of arguing on the internet >Learn Japanese so that I can talk to people that hold similar views as me >Start arguing with Japanese people on the internet
There is no escape.
Mainly fish-keepers. Turns out the Japanese love keeping fish in tiny bowls. A surprisingly large number of them respond by saying the fish has a bigger home than they do, kek (but seriously, it's not like a bigger tank would take much more space).
Learn Chinese instead, it's actually useful and you don't even have to learn characters because everyone already knows how to read pinyin, you can get by simply by recognizing them and typing while on the computer or phone
As I said before, you don't have to memorize the characters by hand because you can install pinyin on your keyboard and they are automatically set, just by seeing them a couple of times you are able to recognize them, especially if they are relevant words.
I know hundreds of hanzi and I can recognize them but I don't know how to handwrite most of them, because it's simply not necessary unless you want an HSK degree (although some of those tests don't even ask you to write them anymore).
>lolno it only helps you read moron posts by moronic chinks
Japan apart from anime and video games is completely irrelevant, they also don't want to know anything about the outside world, island mentality. China however will be the next world power.
Also, something I've noticed is that the vast majority of people who learn Japanese are weebs who after a few months give up and quit because it's absurdly complicated, with Chinese even though it's hard to pronounce, the grammar is pretty simple and you feel like you advance very fast because you don't have to memorize 20 fricking different ways to say "you."
apart from anime and video games is completely irrelevant, they also don't want to know anything about the outside world, island mentality
So, aside from the only reasons anyone would want to learn a language, they're also isolationist so they're unlikely to start producing globohomosexual dogshit any time soon?
Man, I better drop this language and start learning chink already. Who needs entertainment when you can have exciting talks about what breed of dog tastes the best with third world insects?
>As I said before, you don't have to memorize the characters by hand because you can install pinyin on your keyboard and they are automatically set, just by seeing them a couple of times you are able to recognize them, especially if they are relevant words.
If your only goal is to write at a babby level and frequently mistype and misread characters >it's simply not necessary unless you want an HSK degree
A HSK certificate is only a measuring stick for your language proficiency level. The top levels of 9/6/11 are just a starting point for normal fluency. If you couldn't pass lower levels any day of the week (including handwriting) you do not know Chinese and should stop larping, which was my point. >Japan apart from anime and video games is completely irrelevant
Chinese is irrelevant apart from going there in person and doing business which you aren't doing since you're a NEET larping at a millet brewing conference. Not even trying to learn nipponese btw.
>you can get by simply by recognizing them and typing while on the computer or phone
If only Japanese had an actual alphabet you could use to type Kanji.
The only thing holding me back is the writing system at this point. I spent more time on phonemes than actual vocabulary due to the similarities to my agglutinative SOV native tongue
The differences are very subtle but overall you can still grasp what's being said and the japanese will still understand you whether you used が or は. Don't worry too much about it because as your understanding naturally deepens over constant exposure you will eventually catch on
は is used when the predicate is more important than the subject
が is used when the subject is more important than the predicate (and always when answering questions)
they actually mean completely different things. the thing that's going to trip you up is: those totally different things that they mean, can often both be used in a given sentence. especially simplified example sentences like XがYです vs XはYです.
random anon's advice: don't worry about it unless you are composing something in Japanese or translation something into Japanese for a Japanese audience
learning japanese is like getting invested in wow in 2022. if you're an ultra newbie you're going to have to spend months, maybe a few years, before you get to the point where you can discuss with other players the various elements of the game, simply because it's been around for so long and because there's so much content to consume. also it's because your western brain is not used to pictographic languages, and possibly SVO structure.
>tfw know chinese
it's so easy
it's like knowing the alphabet to japanese, I can just intuit what words and phrases means and looking up translations is super easy
not to mention how easy katakana and hiragana is
I don't even need to know the language, lmao
>Read katakana english word. >What the frick does this mean >Read it slowly syllable by syllable in your head >Still can't make it out >Start actually saying it loudly with your voice over and over >Still don't get it >Give up >1 page later >Finally clicks >You now hate loanwords slightly more.
Any anons get their visa with a criminal history?
Kinda worried mine will ruin my chances. Fricked up pretty bad when I was a dumb kid 11 years ago but have never served time or anything. Have since turned around and got a bachelors degree and good employment.
You can get it. You won't get JET Programme or the like, but you can get stuff. Know a guy that's a recruiter who had a criminal history, and now he's making the fat recruiter money (at least until that bubble finally bursts).
Manga is a better practice rool than vidya to be honest, even if a big ass jrpg enda up having more stuff to read overall.
My skills jumped up tremendously when I just dove into raw manga
All guides basically say the same thing. >learn kana >learn vocab (optional kanji only study) >read about basic grammar >read native material on par with your level >repeat above
Simplified, of course, but what's the big difference between all the vocab decks, does it even matter that much?
Katakana should dissapear, it should be nuked out of existance.
I understand the importance of kanji and hiragana is simple enough, but there's literally no reason for katakana to exist.
It's literally like if I just started to write *manga* instead of manga. I look like a fricking moron
makes it easier to read tbdesu.
if you were to overhaul Japanese writing so that it had spaces between words or something that makes it more obvious where one word starts and another ends then I could see the argument for katakana being obviated (and probably the Chinese characters for the most part at that point), but as-is katakana is handy.
if it's fine in conversation (which it is mostly), then it can be represented just fine in a written language as well. Japanese speech does not have some extra layer of context that cannot possibly be rendered in writing.
I'm 50% through my n5 deck, another month should be enough to cover the other half if I keep the same tempo and then I plan to start getting more into reading and watching anime without subs. Need to study grammar more though, I'm kinda lagging behind in that compared to anki drilling
>try to learn japanese >eyesight is shit >give up because the fricking minute details are incredibly important
I'm legitimately going to kill myself over these fricking eyes. Which moron had the genius idea to make all my hobbies and interests relate to looking at shit? It was me I'm the moron.
Here's a picture of one of my eyes. I have glasses but they don't do shit because it's not that kind of bad vision. The other eye is similarly fricked up by the way.
girls love defects
a girl i liked gushed about the scar her boyfriend had because he didn't brush his teeth, got an abscess and they had to perform oral surgery on him
I kind of want to learn because I enjoy the sound of it, but I don't even watch animu anymore and I'm not interested in niche games. I don't know what I would use it for
Yes?
Read the Ganker-to-2chan translation sites, the slang being translated is way too fricking funny
https://kowakunotsubo.com/archives/ijiranaide-nagatoro-san-ch110/
You need to learn from something that’s actually going to give you feedback and context, like WaniKani. Something that teaches you the exceptions and rules.
Otherwise you’re going to get an anki deck that throws 一 (ichi) and 一つ (hitotsu) at you and wonder why the frick 一 has two different readings, then get frustrated and give up.
/jp/ doesn't recommend wanikani for a number of reasons, which are listed here.
https://tatsumoto.neocities.org/blog/faq.html#what-are-the-downsides-of-using-wanikani
>Enters a thread i don't like >Post an "argument" that is just bait >Get told to commit sepukku because your bait was horrible and painfully obvious >"Triggered much?"
Go ahead, tell me your manly ass hobby (or hobbies, if you even have more than one).
Hard mode: no gun collecting, no gym/fitness, no car collection, those are common as frick.
holy frick look at this assmad low T homosexual learning a language for homosexuals and “men.”
You deserve nothing but torture in this life and the next for what a colossal waste of meat you are, homosexual.
>Same rebuttal
How about you play the macho man somewhere else? Doubt even /misc/ would welcome your ass.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I’m not playing anything, homosexual. I’m making fun of you.
You’re a sad, worthless queer who will die alone. You should feel awful about yourself at every opportunity.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>I’m not playing anything
Ah, yes, the bait wasn't you at all, never existed in the first place, am i right? Still haven't answered my question by the way. >You’re a sad, worthless queer who will die alone
Put down the projector, the only one seeing lgbt here is your out-of-asylum brain.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>a-answer my question
Why? I don’t owe you anything. Whereas you owe me an apology for what a homosexual you are.
You deserve nothing but the drawn-out pain of a meaningless existence, and you will get it in spades.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Me, me, me!
The frick are you? A woman? No one owe you shit, go get your (you)s somewhere else, you attention craving moron.
2 years ago
Anonymous
No, homosexual, you owe me an apology for existing. You are a disgrace to my species and incredibly, painfully gay.
Now apologize and endure the pain of your existence quietly.
dogen is a gay and pitch accent is a complete meme if you're not looking to get a high profile job using the language
your japanese friends dont give a shit if your words sound funny and they understand you anyway
Most likely off-topic, but >be ESL >move away from home country >become more and more exposed to English >you start to think in English >you primarily speak in English >slowly start to forget your own tongue's vocab >have to look up on Google Translate for YOUR OWN WORDS
It's fricking embarrassing. And I don't know what to do. Do I just pick up a book and try to keep it fresh?
You need to learn from something that’s actually going to give you feedback and context, like WaniKani. Something that teaches you the exceptions and rules.
Otherwise you’re going to get an anki deck that throws 一 (ichi) and 一つ (hitotsu) at you and wonder why the frick 一 has two different readings, then get frustrated and give up.
Avoid any japanese 'learning' site that links their patreon garbage. REMINDER, Itazuraneko is the only guide that doesn't beg for donations.
Itazuraneko is the old guide, you can safely ignore it from now on. We on DJT have been working on a replacement guide. So far it's got only positive feedback. https://tatsumoto.neocities.org/
That makes no sense. Do you mean you can understand the sentence but simply can't pinpoint the right words for a translation? Because that's a common problem for most people.
No no, I mean I understand the words individually, but not the sentence. It's like, take the sentence "There is a red apple on the table", well imagine that I understand every word individually but I cannot comprehend what information the sentence itself is conveying, that's the problem I have with japanese.
for example, I just do not understand what is being said, I can understand the words individually, and I understand the beginning, but when you get to "生活の上のさまざまな仕方やしきたり。その有様" I just do not understand what is being said here, even though I do understand the words by themselves.
I think it is quite possibly due to the order of the sentence. You need to like, find a way to read Japanese that makes sense to your brain. Personally, I just pluck all the relevant bits and then re-arrange them into English ordering.
テーブルの上に赤いリンゴがあります
you don't get it?
>テーブルの上に赤いリンゴがあります
in my head becomes >上 テーブル 赤い リンゴ
I don't delete the particles, but instead, they help dictate where they should end up when I remap them into English grammar.
>I think it is quite possibly due to the order of the sentence.
Yes I also think that's one of the reasons why I have trouble with it, japanese sentence structure is different from the other languages I know and I just can't seem to adapt to it.
Maybe try the re-arranging thing like I suggested until you pick up the grammar, it becomes easier once you associate the order change with what each particle does and eventually you can just read it in the japanese order. Ultimately, unless you're writing, reading is extracting relevant data anyway and all speed-readers do this to some degree in their native language.
japanese particles are announcing the function of each word. it's like me saying "anon subject ball object throw", which means "anon throws a ball". it can't be much clearer
I don't know what to tell you anon, I've looked up grammar guides and read up on particles but I still have serious trouble with understanding sentences. Maybe I'm just not intelligent enough.
A sentence is built around the verb. Even if you don't understand some of the expressions in a sentence, you'll still understand the point of a sentence if you spot the main verb and figure out how the other words relate to the main verb
If your going to actually learn a langauge learn a useful one like mandarin that will help you succeed in your career
Japense is a meme langauge and only useful if you want to live in a country thats miserable
Mandarin is not useful, no Chinese person you're going to do business with is going to have the patience to listen to you speak Mandarin to them. They're just going to speak to you in English instead. >t. have a minor in Mandarin because of the "good for business career" meme
no language is useful if you can't actually hold a normal conversation with it. that's your personal failure. english is the only exception to that because it's the de facto international language and you're just lucky you started with it
>learning a language for a pragmatic purpose
Nice way to burn the frick out and never become fluent. Consooming content you like is 99% of the learning process and good look finding something you want to read if you don't actually care for the language or the country or anything.
the grammar is simple, but the concept of kanji is fricking stupid. memorizing 2000+ stacks of bologna with multiple readings was a terrible idea. at least kanji look cool.
>what's the difference between language with 4000 characters and language with 26 characters???
the difference is that you can read one without knowing them
i think the syllabary idea is great compared to english's quasi-phoenetics, even if the sound inventory is a lot smaller.
the grammar seems really easy too.
but i'm still learning basic stuff, so may change my mind one day.
>grammar seems really easy
alright, off the top of my head, shit that gives me trouble >when to use 次第, よって, and 応じて (they basically mean depending on) >should you use こと or の as nominalizer? >でない and ではない. when to use one over the other? >ところ. still can't quite get what it means (e.g. 危ないところだった. oh, and then there's ばかり vs ところ) >際, 時, and 場合 (basically when they're used for when (e.g. when doing something)) >ろくに/めったに /あまり/ほとんど ~ ない. no idea when to use which
btw, it's a lot easier to understand than it is to compose something.
The more I learn Japanese the more I realize it’s literally the most moronic language on this planet. I’m too far in to quit now though.
My only driving force being to play games in their native language, and bag me a nip wife to cook me meals and put some children in.
i think the syllabary idea is great compared to english's quasi-phoenetics, even if the sound inventory is a lot smaller.
the grammar seems really easy too.
but i'm still learning basic stuff, so may change my mind one day.
Seethe more roastie. You had your chance to be partner material. Have fun fricking the neighborhood out of boredom and being overall useless, wondering why no one will marry you in your 40s.
>this much cope >the homosexual doesn’t even know about cheating culture on Moon Monkey Island
pffffthahahahaHAHAHA
You will never please a woman, you flaming baby dick gay.
>missed out on securing a hot white woman while they’re young >has to resort to a woman from a culture so foreign that they’ll never truly understand you
Oh I’m laffin
Depends on your skill level. For beginners, I recommend DQXIs. Fantasy language is a staple and the game was absolutely fricking butchered in English, so it's nice to play a game where you play as the 勇者 and not a fricking "luminary". Plus, it's written for 5 year olds with furigana.
I know it sounds dumb but literally just read more
the problem is that you need to know thousands of kanjis or you cant read anything in the first place
>the problem is that you need to know thousands of words or you cant read anything in the first place
yeah no shit
Not even remotely the same as other languages. You learn words, sure, but unlike Japanese, you don't have to learn what words look like. You can sound out a word letter by letter and identify it phonetically. This is not possible with Kanji.
Kanjis are made of radicals though, isn't that how they read it too? Don't speak much jap myself
You're either baiting or genuinely moronic. You can still read words even if you don't know them because the alphabet exists, you fricking Black person
If you don't understand a word's meaning, it's functionally the same, regardless of whether or not you can pronounce what you're reading.
shit bait and you're moronic
26 letters
you need to learn words not kanji. You can learn a few each day, you just have to start
you don't learn individual kanji, you learn the system that is kanji, the parts that make up the whole...once you've done that, everything falls into place and you can usually understand kanji you don't actually know
how tf do i learn that stuff
i'm tired of looking at kanjis and seeing nothing but random scribbles, i know there are radicals and ways to guess readings and meanings but i dont know where to start
it's just memorisation of basic rules and patterns. if you know 忍 is read as nin, you will recognise it in 認, which guess what, is also read as nin. of course it doesn't always work, but you just need to immerse yourself in kanji and start paying attention to the patterns the same way you'd learn your times tables
one thing that could be helpful is learning the kangxi radicals, so when you split down 細胞 into individual parts you can form mnemonics or just visual recognition in your mind. Each learner is different, so it might not do any good for you at all and you're better off going straight into the core deck.
https://tatsumoto.neocities.org/blog/learning-kanji.html#learning-radicals
waste of time. actually just learn the words. radicals are for nerds with no life.
>a few each day
Damn at that rate it's only gonna take 10 years to get the very basics! Maybe I'll be able to read a newspaper by the time I'm 60!
I've been testing methods for the past year and the most optimal / best approach I tried so far is:
learn joyo kanji by usefulness level
look up at least 3 words that include that individual kanji, write them on a notepad
aim for 25 kanji a day, once you reach 100 spend the rest of the week revising them/previous ones that you can't recognise just by looking at them.
this is coming from someone who tried anki(lol) and heisig's and I can safely tell you they're not worth it if you actually want to read japanese.
It's meant to be gaijin and Black proff, so if you truly respect their culture then quit batching and start devoting yourself to it and studying it.
Just wanting to learn jap talk so you can frick some Japanese b***h or read a Manga is ignorant shit
>it took me the past year to figure out gradual learning i could have just gotten from a japanese learning schoolbook
I listened to ankibots when I started which was my biggest mistake
we don't call them ankidrones for nothing
You want to be able to recognize whole worlds instead. 懐中電灯 looks really complicated, but it means flashlight. When I tried figuring it out kanji by kanji I struggled like a motherfricker, but now its easy for me. I recognize the two middle ones (within, electric power) almost instantly due to how common they are and my brain just "puts it together" in the same way I see a complicated English word and my brain just connects the dots without me thinking of each letter, their sound individually and finally how they sound combined
But its complicated I'm 32 and have been studying for 6 years and I still have problems.
You don't, grab a grammar book and an online kanji dictionary.
Next grab reading material, I picked VN's since it's ez to extract text for quick translation.
Now carefully read and mine sentences, extract their full meaning using the combination of the grammar book and looking up whatever kanji comes up in your preferred dictionary.
The process might be a bit slow in the beginning, however you make massive gains exponentially.
When you complete one VN, the next one takes almost a fraction of the time you spend on the first one and the ones after will be so understandable, you won't even find yourself looking up anything but obscure phrases and yojijukugo that chuunishit tends to throw on the screen.
Anki is a great method but please please start reading and consuming actual Japanese works, don't spend an eternity on isolated kanji study.
Kanji's some fricked up shit
>learn japanese
>spend 90% of the time reading katakana english
this. It's literally like this.
Mind explaining why?
>trad: 鐵
>simple: 铁
mainland chads stay winning
Simplified kanjis are fricking ugly.
This is your brain on communism
get a better font holy shit
Exactly, simp hanzi looks like those "AZN" fonts for the English alphabet
The trick into traditional is to separate it into little parts.
For example, OP's 鐵 has 金, which is metal. 呈which looks like working on an anvil, and at last 戈 is armament. Put them together and you'll get 鐵(iron)
>simple
>go for the easy route of using a similar sound part and lose all the symbolism in the process.
moron the radicals in the traditionals help you understand the meaning.
simplified is only better for writing not for reading
>not being a ㄅㄆㄇㄈ chad
why go out of your way to display the 旧字体 of 鉄? you are making japanese harder than it is
Irrelevant.
Japs some time don't even use joyo kanji or jinmeiyo for that matter.
Pic very related
>躊躇 is read chuucho
>add a う(u) and it changes to tamerau
Why are nips like this?
yeah sure I can pull out 蘊蓄 or 朦朧 but you hardly need these to learn japanese anymore than you need balderdash or gainsay to learn english
>has 金 on the left
>土 on the top+戈. a lot of characters do that (e.g. 載)
>呈 is a kanji you should know
Also that's the old form of 鉄. If you see it used at all these it's because nips are superstitious as frick and want to avoid 失 (means loss). Also
>he thinks moonrunes are the hardest part and not onomatopoeic/mimetic shit like ふらふら, きちんと, ばっちり, ぐっと, さらさら, etc.
ngmi
>kanji is hard
it's just memorization. the hard part is recognizing words in katakana because you're literally reading broken english.
This. God I hate trying to parse katakana loanwords, even worse when it's names in a fantasy manga or something.
I can figure it out easily for the most part. It only throws me off if it's a non-English loan word.
>the hard part is recognizing words in katakana because you're literally reading broken english.
yeah pretty much this
you have to actually sound them out like a jap in order to actually understand what borrowed word they're using
This helped me
Basically either all lines start from the left or from the top
i had a sensible chuckle.
shi looks up girls skirts
tsu is a pretty cool guy
I always remembered it by SHI has a crooked face, TSU you gotta surf upright to ride the TSUnami waves
Honestly I have more trouble with ソ and ン (and は and ほ for some reason).
Also recognizing the little っ for double consonant sound fricks with me too.
are you winning so n
Shi is lying down because he's dead (shi)
Tsu is smiling because he likes you (Tsu(ki))
>he likes you
This method doesn't work for me
I like you anon!
And you should like yourself too!
No you dno't
The problem isn't reading the katakana for the most part. The problem really is just figuring out what they mean cause're basically playing an English telephone game with fricking Japanese people in the middle.
It's best to try to disassociate the original english word and pretend it's a completely new one
Yes, but if you encounter a new katakana word, you'd still have to look it up or try to figure it out yourself, which leads to the initial problem. Or you see it in the browser and hover over it with your Japanese reading aid extension like the little pleb you are.
Katakana is too fricking ugly.
>just
BRO IT'S JUST MEMORISATION
JUST REMEMBER
JUST
BRO IT'S SO EASY JUST REMEMBER
JUST
if you have time to complain you have time to do reps. now go back to studying. or don't. pic related
Frick. None of those are untrue. A-At least I'm training my brain's plasticity right?
>took the meme seriously
wew, lad.
>he became fluent in speech after about 3 years living there.
Good for him.
>The guy can't read or write for shit
How? I mean, holy shit, if I can remember the runes (I can't avoid autistically subvocalizing the parts in my head as I read. after about 2 years I can recall most of them), but not he words.
"knowing" the language and being able to speak it are two different things. this is the case for most ESLs across the world for example
the only solution is to expose yourself to it
It's a serious meme. Uselessly learning a useless language to spend time uselessly playing previously unaccessible useless timewasters. It's only slightly more productive than playing vidya and browsing Ganker, but it's still useless.
americans are a meme
I'm not American and I'm fluent in 3.1 languages.
I might just be a moron, but I like learning languages because they are fun.
And compared to European languages with all the wishy and wavy mouth movements (apart from Finnish :DDD), Japanese is much more familiar to my mouth since I'm a turk, although pitch accents still sometimes filter me
Nice wig implant anon
>Uselessly learning a useless language
I had to learn French in school. I have never gotten any mileage out of it. With nip, I can at least enjoy vidya.
Besides, if we followed your argument to its logical conclusion, unprofitable hobbies like numismatics and philately wouldn't exist.
I also learned French in school, but it helped me make a girl spill her spaghetti once. A freshly arrived French girl said "il est mignon~" about me to her friends, to which I replied Thanks. Felt pretty smug. French can be great.
I'm also into learning languages as a hobby, but I just came to terms with Japanese not being as useful. Most of the games I've wanted to play have been translated anyway
>Most of the games I've wanted to play have been translated anyway
I used to think like that until one of these threads opened my eyes to the folly of troonylators.
both of those are horrible
God commie are the worst
Needs a Funi version that complains about rape culture.
>troonylators
I hate them so much. The Team Lifebottle Tales of Destiny community translation patch was a glorious project I was happy to shill everywhere, but turns out there's some new closed project now making their own version to it? Just why.
These homosexuals want to subvert and put their influence on anything.
Though I think if you mastered Jap somewhat, instead of keeping things to yourself, you should at least contribute by translating scripts and such.
this is why I'm studying japanese as "a hobby". frick troonylators for ruining most media
This is fake, right?
>This is fake, right?
What do you mean? Have another.
start to forget your own tongue's vocab
This is one of my prime fears. The worst part is when you want to use words that exist in one language with no straightforward equivalent in the other (e.g. patronize, condescend, bizarre).
Gunvolt fan here: absolutely not. The right-side is the original 3DS translation where they also completely removed all the dialogue you can have in your apartment with the girl Joule. There's a menu option "Talk to Joule" and it does frick all, I legit thought my game was bugged until I looked it up.
It's called illiteracy anon.
There are still millions of them all over the world, they can live just fine too.
Even parrots can learn how to talk, it's the easiest part of learning a new language
That image is how I'm starting to feel about Japanese. Learning German and some other European languages would benefit me a thousand times more... Maybe I should switch
What's German good for? You get so much more use out of French and Spanish, they're also much easier too
>You get so much more use out of Spanish
Access to cheap labor, hookers and drugs is not a lot of use.
What do you get out of knowing German? Getting better direction from locals to the gayest scat fetisch club and being able to read Goethe as intended?
mostly to understand the cryptic writings of nietzsche
germanbros...
I was wondering the same thing. German is one of the least useful languages you could learn. It's also only spoken by absolute homosexuals.
>the only German speaker I know is a fruity twink
Fricking kek. You're onto something
>You will never be fluent
I know a guy who went to japan to study the language. He hated the school and failed big time, just went outside partying with locals and shit all day. The guy spent so much time with local japanese people that he became fluent in speech after about 3 years living there. The guy can't read or write for shit, but he speak the language perfectly and is doing fine.
If you have the will to do something you shouldn't give up on it.
>YOU ARE WASTING YOUR TIME
Sometimes I really feel this but then I remember that if I stopped studying I'd just waste all that excess time shitposting on Ganker anyway.
you will never be japanese filthy amerimutt scum, eat lead and die goddamn piece of garbage, also japanese are just freaking garbage so FRICK YA ALL, YAHOWH SIEG HEIL!!!!
>age of the internet
>the greatest library in the history of human civilization just waits at out fingertips with a <1s response time
>>how tf do u lern summink?
OP troony homosexual triying to learn shitty japanese, with their gay israelite friends, imagine the disgrace...
I've grinded anki every day for 3 or 4 years. I reached the end of my anki deck and I find it very difficult to incorporate actual reading in my daily routine. It was so much easier to just do my daily new cards and reviews. Does anyone have any good ideas for how to incorporate reading in a similar manner? Are 'reading flashcards' a thing?
that's... fricking impressive but also moronic. you really just learned words for 4 years every day without ever at least being curious about moving onto particles, grammar, sentences, immersing with actual materials, etc?
its quite hard to actually believe, in fact.
Autism is a hell of a drug
I grinded anki for 6 months before giving up on it and switching to just playing vidya every day. Never looked back. Frick anki autists for pushing that shit on everyone.
Nah Anki is pretty good as a supplement. Thanks to Anki i know words that don't come up often in vidya like 占拠 and 桑原桑原.
>every day for 3 or 4 years
how. in less than 3 weeks shit piled up so bad that i quit. i can't imagine learning 20 fricking new squiggily lines every day and then recall the last 1000 vocabulary too.
>hard to memorize a certain kanji
>would see the same card 100 times before i "get it" only to do same thing the next day to the same card
frick anki seriously.
>3 or 4 years
Damn. I've grinded a core deck for 8 months (~3k words) and I felt I've wasted my time. Same word mined by myself and with my own sentence is so much easier to remember than from some random deck.
You can go through 30k words in 10 years and that still won't prepare you for reading. The sooner you start actually using the language, the better.
If I could go back, I'd only learn a 1000 words before reading.
Yeah, but I'd rather play something I want to play.
It's very useful as an addition, but only an addition, to consooming the language. Especially when you can't consoom, but have a moment to review a couple of words, while at work, waiting for a bus etc.
>Damn. I've grinded a core deck for 8 months (~3k words) and I felt I've wasted my time. Same word mined by myself and with my own sentence is so much easier to remember than from some random deck.
>You can go through 30k words in 10 years and that still won't prepare you for reading. The sooner you start actually using the language, the better.
>If I could go back, I'd only learn a 1000 words before reading.
I went through the core 6k deck and had my own mining deck as well. Yeah, I imagine stopping after a while and just reading would have done a lot more for my reading comprehension and grammar, both of which are still complete shit.
>how. in less than 3 weeks shit piled up so bad that i quit. i can't imagine learning 20 fricking new squiggily lines every day and then recall the last 1000 vocabulary too.
I did 10 new cards per day at the start, but as you said it piled up too much and I lowered it. At the end I was only doing 2-4 new cards per day. It was easy to do after I woke up, before work and didn't take very long.
All "Core" Anki decks are based on newspapers from early 90s and sometimes additionally sorted in a way that makes learning harder. The cards format also tends to be WCC instead of a more efficient TSC. Ankidrone Starter Pack is made from a completely different corpus, everyday words used commonly in Japan. You should use Ankidrone Starter Pack.
What is WCC and TSC?
Targeted sentence cards are a thing.
https://tatsumoto.neocities.org/blog/discussing-various-card-templates.html#targeted-sentence-cards-or-mpvacious-cards
That's kind of neat. Thanks for the suggestion. I would have to look for a pre-made deck of those however.
I've been grinding anki for two years and I've yet to find a word I haven't encountered in media I use the language for (vidya and watching vtubers). And that's before I started my own deck by literally adding everything I encounter that I can't read at a glance. You've got to supplement your learning with immersion for real examples of words you've learned. And yes anki sentence flashcards are a thing too if you want that too.
I never understand the point of making a thread b***hing about something you can't do. does that ever help anyone finding motivation to get them back to grinding that to them seems impossible?
Finishing my first game in Japanese. Shit took easily 10x more time than it would take in English.
How is the new Live A Live? Good choice for learning Japanese for a beginner? Does it have a lot of hard/rare kanji?
just play pokemon. that shit is made for kids and has the option for kana/kanji/furigana if you desire
this one hurts bros. all my parents are dead
nobody cares goddammit get a life, quit wasting time on a language that nobody fricking use !
Males with no good look or contacts have become pretty much unemployable and this isn't anime's fault.
"oh my god it's overrr im criying, because i'm ugly and no bawd wants to frick me(snif, snif)"
Bro I just don't give a frick...
>blaming the medium
>not the problems that led you to isolate yourself from friends and family
absolutely moronic.
You recognize them from outlines/familiarity, etc.
Anki has been a mixed bag for me. Flashcards helped some things stick, and the audio got me used to how the language sounds (neutrally). On the other hand, they don't quite teach one how to use words in context which sucks. They also won't teach nuances between words (I've seen action translated as 動作, 行為, 活用, 活躍, 作業, etc. which one the frick should I use?)
>Especially when you can't consoom, but have a moment to review a couple of words, while at work, waiting for a bus etc.
Pretty much what I've been doing with it.
It seems you guys have never used Anki for anything besides rigid vocab -> meaning stuff.
If you want to learn all synonyms to a word, make a randomized list of items with one randomly clozed out. That way, you will have to fill in the missing item of a sequence just like the one you posted, 動作, 行為, 活用, 活躍, 作業: e.g. 動作, 行為, [...], 活躍, 作業
If you make an important realization, write that down, at best, turn it into a flashcard, and have the program make you actively recall it. You may want to use more generous scheduling for that.
Maybe make a figure of some idea and use image occlusion add-ons to cloze certain parts of the figure. You can definitely be creative with it and active recall will always be superior to passive reading, when it comes to learning (afaik it is the best way to learn on your own. Of course a tutor directly addressing your weaknesses would be best).
>posting something written for chinese people in tiawan
>still pretending this is japanese
he's a spook trying to rob people of japanese gains
note how his advice on how to figure out which word you should use in different contexts is to literally memorize every single word whose meaning is even tangentially related to the word you want to use
Stop shitposting.
It was written for both.
that pic is honestly fairly basic wenyan/hanbun/kanbun, etc. Natives can definitely read it, though it's used less and less. Only China seems to put an increasingly bigger emphasis on it, which is definitely for nationalistic reasons (specifically to make it seem like everything else in East Asia is derivative of China). Most more scholarly people I have met basically know the entire corpus of Chinese philosophy and related chengyu by heart but couldn't talk about a single Western thinker if their life depended on it.
>which one the frick should I use?
it's time to step down from the pure anki meme and start reading
Imagine being such a little b***h that you center your whole life around pleasing others. That's way more pathetic than any weeb.
You’re supposed to center your life around being a man.
You centered yours around being a homo.
Homos are men, if they weren't they'd be lesbians
No, they are not men. They’re barely human.
Then they're not homos
Yes, they are.
They are homosexuals.
homosexuals are men that frick men. So by definition they have to be men
No, they are not men.
They are homosexuals.
>playing a game in bing bong ook chong
Irredeemable.
we're not the property of our parents
if I want to look at anime breasts all day I have the freedom to do so.
>I wish either my father or my mother, or indeed both of them, as they were in duty both equally bound to it, had minded what they were about when they begot me; had they duly consider’d how much depended upon what they were then doing;—that not only the production of a rational Being was concerned in it, but that possibly the happy formation and temperature of his body, perhaps his genius and the very cast of his mind;—and, for aught they knew to the contrary, even the fortunes of his whole house might take their turn from the humours and dispositions which were then uppermost;—Had they duly weighed and considered all this, and proceeded accordingly,—I am verily persuaded I should have made a quite different figure in the world, from that in which the reader is likely to see me.
>6'
>Lifting Gankergay
>High paying tech job
>Still a frendless shut-in ass-burger weeb
Now what, homosexual?
>spend your one chance at existence slaving for mister shekelstein in a no future world instead of NEETslacking
Keep paying your taxes so I can live free, wagecattle.
The idea of a hapless boomer coming across this post and being confused and irroncilably annoyed is very amusing to me.
Who have thought that dropping the kid in front of the tv all day and never interacting with it would lead to stunted emotional and social development?
how do you even read the little details these if you don't have a perfect sight without getting closer/squinting your eyes? impractical ass language
You don't have to. Your brain is a pattern-recognition machine. One cursory look at a kanji is enough for your brain to recognize it as a certain word.
土士
I'm not bullshitting you when I say I immediately read those as earth and samurai, and that you can too. it becomes easy.
For the last time, you learn words not individual kanji.
Once you reach a critical mass of knowledge kanji actually helps you read japanese better, this is the case even if you don't individually memorize singular kanji in isolation like some goons do with those programs I forget the names of
How? Its very tedious to memorize how entire words look, you just have to imprint all these nonsense squigglys in your mind. But with individual kanji you have the option to use stuff like Kodansha Kanji Learners Course that explains each kanji so that you can see it as an image depicting its meaning
Is it even worth learning anymore with the way japanese devs are going?
There's 40 years of wholesome gaming history to explore in Japanese, no matter the future.
>Why is japanese so fricking hard bros?
It's not. It only looks hard to people who don't know how to learn it the right way. Read https://tatsumoto.neocities.org/
I tried to learn Mandarin together with it, to make Kanji easier to understand. Got burnt out lol.
Katakana is also moronic. The fact you can get borrowed words wrong and aren't breaking the English language like you should is so stupid
Learning Mandarin isn't that useful for Japanese (something like Cantonese or Hokkien may be better but again, overall not that useful). You could've learned Classical Chinese since that was, more or less, East Asia's lingua franca for almost two millenia and it was still used in Japan in the 20th century (see the Emperor of Japan's surrender in WW2, for instance).
but I should mention that Classical Chinese is much harder to get proficient in than any other language I know of and the usefulness for Japanese certainly stops at a certain point. You may be able to derive or explain grammatically some obscure yojijukugo taken from the classics but it's most likely not useful for video games or whatever your interest is. Classical languages in general are really difficult and often times only written.
Yeah I'm close to giving up on Mandarin. No way I'd be able to handle Classical or even Cantonese
Cantonese and the like are much more autistic when it comes to tones and even still use the entry tone, although are still more similar by Japanese by virtue of not being that different to Middle Chinese, which I believe Japanese borrowed lots of readings for kanji from (as opposed to Mandarin; you don't see x or q in Japanese, which I believe are unique to Mandarin, plus, Mandarin really was more of an "official" language in these days; vernacular Mandarin wasn't that common). But even Cantonese (mainly due to Hong Kong) has special symbols no other language has and every-day language is definitely much influenced by English, again, due to Hong Kong. I don't think there is all that much use in learning a Sino-Tibetan language just for Japanese when all Japanese did is borrow vocabulary from that; it's like learning Italian to speak Tigrinya.
I can also assure you that most natives can only "understand", as in get the gist (but often not full meaning) of, Classical Chinese but not tell you why it's written as it is, i.e. most people know jack shit about Classical grammar, so its overall use is fairly niche, but probably bigger than Middle Chinese.
The only really interesting thing I know about Mandarin and Japanese specifically is that Mandarin has its own corpus of weeb vocabulary and even some grammatical particles that are used in translations of Japanese stuff (though rather unofficial stuff, like fan translations).
Well it's not only for Japanese, I also learn it out of my own interest. It's just that the accent thing is really difficult to get into. I learn a bit of it on Memrise, and I'm really tired of getting the accents wrong in exercises. I can hear the difference, but my brain just doesn't want to process it
Just wanna add, I was interested in Mandarin specifically. I'll try to forget about it as a Japanese accessory and just learn a bit for its own sake. Thanks for the explanation on it and the relation to Japanese.
Cantonese sounds off to me, and classical sounds hard. I'll just keep doing my 5-15 minutes a day of it. It wakes up my brain when I do it in the morning, it's also interesting.
山力モ尺モ ム巾 工?
WHAT
kanji aren't even the worst part, or most difficult part of japanese, it's actually all the fricking grammar shit with hiragana that completely changes the meaning of a sentence.
once you know about 300/500 kanji everything is easier
今日は友達と学校に行きました
is much much much better to read than
きょうは ともだちと がっこうに いきました
i don't know... lumping grammar and normal words or verbs is so weird and confusing, kanji helps you with that
No no, the hardest part are onomatopoeic and mimetic words
>onomatopoeic and mimetic words
I feel like I have a good grasp on the language until one of these motherfrickers hit me
What do you think of this channel? Seems to be good for those
https://www.youtube.com/c/Onomappu/videos
This guy knows. Also, reading names beyond easy stuff like tanaka, yamaguchi or mizuno
きょうはきょうとにきょうみがあるきょうことはなした
Do nips find this shit difficult?
in the 80s, games and PCs couldn't handle kanji, so they used all kana and it was a big pain in the ass for japs
>how many radicals do you want senpai
I only see like 5 step up your game senpai
Kanji and vocab are complete meme. Grammar is infinitely harder. Frick all these bullshit rules and exceptions and verb tenses and particles I'm going insane.
What exceptions are you talking about? The only true difficult part about grammar is when you have 5+ that mean essentially the same thing but have really moronic nuances
I've been binging on 2ch yukkuri threads on youtube for a while now and I realized recently that I've basically been doing the equivalent of watching tts Ganker greentext videos
>2ch yukkuri threads on youtube
Can you link one? Are they reading of full threads?
Only Youtube learning I did was Kimagure cook with youtube autosubs
>Can you link one?
there's probably dozens of channels out there doing the same thing
>Are they reading of full threads?
they're usually cut down to just the relevant parts of the thread
here's an example:
Oh boy that's way better than what I expected. Bookmarked. Thanks!
2ch greentexts can be great and kino. Have you read molester man or train man yet?
I also remember I've watched the entirety of Piropito's Blind Minecraft playthrough. It was pretty good.
>anki
>get word
>don't know definition
>read definition
>1 word later it comes up again
>completely forgot the definition
>anki
>get word I've definitely encountered before
>completely forgot what it means or how to read it
>suddenly understanding literally pops up from my subconsciousness because my brain passively remembered it
>it was correct
this happened to me the other day and it's the best feeling in the world. we're gonna make it.
Maybe you should do something about your early-on-set Alzheimer's and not shitpost on Ganker? For the record, memorizing 3 words for 5 minutes (while other faculties are evaluated, such as fine motor skill) is a part of the most common Alzheimer's test.
I doubt the Alzheimer test makes you memorize 3 words for 5 minutes in another fricking language moron
Should've used the term "nonsensical syllables" as opposed to "words", and yes, that is exactly the case. According to Ebbinghaus, 80% of such "arbitrary" knowledge should still persist after 20 minutes.
In any case, get your short-term memory checked.
Not him but I genuinely think I might have some memory problems because I seriously struggle
when learning new words.
For me it's more like
>see word in Anki
>generally get it right
>see it in on a text outside of Anki
>almost never get it right
How the frick can you struggle with the definition? Only thing I've ever had problems with is the reading of it
>golden thanksgiving display
Wow, that was hard.
I fricking hate Japan and their dying language why couldn't a country with a normal latin alphabet have invented anime and manga?
go watch cartoons homosexual
I'd rather learn French but they only have like 1-2 good cartoons so it's not worth it compared to the dozens of seasonal shows and hundreds of monthly manga/novel chapters Japan shits out.
Only 1-2 cartoons that you know of. The Indie animation scene over there is still good probably despite the everworsening political situation.
Learning both Japanese and French would be good.
Have you seen a recent the French made of some Manga? It's Netflix, but I've read that it's faithful and interesting:
France does stuff.. They also translate a lot of great and obscure Manga. How's your French?
>why couldn't a country with a normal latin alphabet have invented anime and manga?
skill issue
its like one step up from hieroglyphics (or maybe a step down), very inefficient language system but asia is autistic rote memorization personified so what're you gonna do
>autistic rote memorization personified
You could not have described the Japanese language any better. Compared to Chinese, Japanese takes it to a whole other level with their kanji being able to possess multiple pronunciations AND with an unpredictable amount of syllables because frick you. It's an esoteric language taken to its logical extreme. Makes perfect sense on a small scale but then some smartass thought it would be a good idea to apply it all across the board.
ok. total brainlet moron here. where do I start if I want to read mystery visual novels and possibly manga
fifty fricking times
you b***h
Start by learning and memorizing hiragana.
Once you know every symbol and recognize it instantly, learn katakana.
It should keep you occupied for the next 4 months or less. Come back and ask later what to do next. Hiragana is your definite first step though.
>Once you know every symbol and recognize it instantly, learn katakana.
I still process some of it instantly when I'm reading something two years after I started with kanji. It's easier to just learn it to the point where you can test yourself on it well and then move on to other things, kana is something you'll just encounter naturally.
Step 1: Learn hiragana and katakana https://tatsumoto.neocities.org/blog/learning-kana-in-two-days.html
Step 1.1. Learn some basic vocab and kanji https://tatsumoto.neocities.org/blog/learning-kanji.html
Step 2: Learn extremely basic grammar/sentence structure. https://tatsumoto.neocities.org/blog/learning-grammar.html is a good place to start.
Step 3: Read, watch, listen to native content. Use Japanese subs and mpv scripts.
Use Anki to make Targeted Sentence Cards, not vocab or word cards. Literally just spend time with the language, look up words you don't know in a dictionary, look up grammar points in a grammar dictionary (like this index https://tatsumoto.neocities.org/blog/resources.html#grammar). Keep immersing.
It takes time but that's LITERALLY all you need to do.
Good luck.
thanks. see you in a few months, tired of localizers ruining videogames.
>he thinks he's gonna learn nip in a few months
Even the most proficient N1's still admit that they don't fully graps the language.
English speakers don't even fully graps their language
That's because N1 is like a high schooler's comprehension level, assuming they can even speak and write, and so it shouldn't be your end goal at all
>tatsumoto
Tatsumoto is unironically the best Japanese language guide out there.
>Be 70+ year old language-gay
>Decide to be a v-tuber
>Drop several years worth of pure gold in free Japanese lessons
>Die
Honor her memory, homosexual.
A lot of what she talked about can be found in the books that she mentions without the ear rape.
Pretty good videos otherwise.
>A lot of what she talked about can be found in the books that she mentions without the ear rape.
True, but even those books still have a lot of moments that where they try to translate meanings instead of using literal translations and explaining how the metaphor works. Plus you can listen to her videos when you're cooking/cleaning ect.
Straight away. I'll watch and learn all of them.
Watch them in order of oldest to newest.
I will, but I lied a little about doing it straight away. I'll watch one video a day after my Japanese reps.
>her final video
🙁
Because it's one of the languages that english didn't copy it's words from. So you have to start from scratch.
>Spend 8 years learning Japanese
>Can play games like Final Fantasy and every now and again have to consult a dictionary.
>Can have reasonable conversations about everyday things in Japanese.
> Cannot understand a single line of dialogue of any native material.
Why even try?
I quit after about a year and a half because I stopped seeing the point.
>I stopped seeing the point
Don't you want to be able to play your favorite vidya without having to go through pozzed troonylizers who keep changing the original dialogue at their whim to fit their political agenda?
I don’t even play video games that frequently anymore.
you should be on 2ch
What’s the difference between Kanji and Chinese
How do i type nihongo without opening google translate every time
use an IME
which one
How the frick do people even begin to learn kanji?
I speak 4 fricking languages(that are all pretty different from eachother) fluently and I genuinely can not wrap my head around starting to learn japanese
>How the frick do people even begin to learn kanji?
By starting at the very bottom and working your way up like a grade school student. You don't fricking learn shit like the OP image from the get go. You're supposed to start out with the easier ones which make up the building blocks for the more complex ones as you go.
Take this image as a guide and look them up individually on jisho or whatever to learn the stroke order.
>Kanji for power is literally exactly the same as the katakana for "Ka"
I want to kill myself
it's bigger though 力カ
Oh I see
Still frick this shit, the moment I learned that the past tense of aru and au are the same I realized that japanese is fricking terrible
Japanese (Chinese too) is plagued with homonyms which is why kanji are actually a lifesaver
the katakana is always going to be grouped with other katakana, while the kanji is either going to be by itself or with other kanji, usually at the end
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Comparison_of_hiragana_and_katakana_derivations
While learning using duolingo (yes i'm aware it's dog shit most of the times), i was in the "time" section, "ha" became "wa" when translating and i'm not sure if it's duo being a massive mongoloid or if it's an obscure japanese rule.
"Ima wa juu ji tbh." was written "ima ha juu ji tbh.".
That’s because it’s a particle. When は is used as a particle it’s voiced as わ.
Yeah, it's just a special case with は when it's a standalone character functioning as its own word.
I'm sure there's some highly interesting story behind that which a linguistics nerd could tell you.
Shit, thanks lads.
It's a remnant of historical orthography that iirc they kept because people were too used to it, and you see the particles all the time because they're always written in Kana.
A lot of the reform stuff that changed spelling you wouldn't see much because the parts that got changed are hidden by Kanji, so you wouldn't write them out in Kana.
What's happening with the particles is that at some point, almost every H not at the beginning of a word got turned into W in pronunciation, and in modern Japanese every W except for "Wa" has lost the W altogether. Particles are treated as part of the word they're attached to, so this change affected them as well.
So は sounds like わ, へ sounds like え, and を sounds like お
The same change gives us 藤 Fuji + 原 Hara turning into Fujiwara for example.)
There's a few words like 母 or アヒル that resisted the change, so it's not for every word.
they either use mnemonics (kanjidamage) or the jp1k method where you train yourself to get used to reading kanji by learning words with furigana
https://tatsumoto.neocities.org/blog/learning-kanji.html
Just learn radicals (there's only like 214 of them) to recognize the building blocks and then jump into vocabulary. Kanji in isolation is a waste of time.
Kanji is incredibly easy to learn. Time consuming but easy. And despite the characters getting more complicated, it gets easier as you go because you learn the radicals and have an easier time fighting in new kanji into your preexisting knowledge.
The grammar is a fricking nightmare though, as is learning the subtleties of social cues.
Been learning my own way. no flashcards involved, for a year now and I can read most stuff no problem.
USE ANIMELON moronS
ITS THE BEST RESOURCE OUT THERE
I prefer mpvacious with torrented anime
thats also acceptable
> just watch anime every single day for 5 to 10 years
This is basically why I stopped. If I had started when I was 15 maybe I would’ve stuck with it.
so you stopped consuming media even in english? your reasoning only makes sense if you don't enjoy anything that can be obtained in japanese
if you dont like anime, watch movies
if you dont like movies, play games
if you dont like games, read books/blogs/novels
animelon is just a very easy to digest resource because the subs are already there and an optional translation is 2 clicks away, while also providing a scriptlog for quick flashcard creation. it's the fastest and least complicated method, but if you hate anime, just do anything else in the language instead
75% or more of your immersion will be done with anime, especially for the first few years because you cannot understand much else. You will not be able to just pick up a novel and read it after say, six months. It just won't happen. Your primary way of interacting with Japanese will be anime. So if you get sick of anime, you're screwed. And besides, you can leaern Japanese pretty okay within 5 years, but getting really good is a decade long process at least and if you don't live in the country, that's going to come by way of media and study. So what? Am I going to be nearly 40 still drilling Anki decks and dedicating an hour a day to watching Japanese movies? No. Honestly, this is probably why all the really successful learners start very young. It has less to do with neuroplasticity and more to do with being able to tolerate endless amounts of anime fpr years, and you can only really do that without going crazy as a teenager or very young adult.
if you derive no pleasure from japanese media, then you have no reason to start in the first place
anyone who says kanji is hard is full of shit.
what really filters learners is the fricking grammar.
I know over 500+ kanji and I struggle to understand what the sentence means until I read it backwards. That's how fricked up the grammar is in Japanese.
Grammar exists with Kanji, what makes grammar hard is a combination of having to learn Nip grammar AND fricking Kanji. It's fricking hard.
>jap grammar is hard
homie it's the html or LaTeX of human languages with particles instead of tags lmao just read more, it'll come to you
>homie
Opinion discarded.
>2022
>could just the alphabet
>dont
?????
Kanji are literally objectively superior to an alphabet in the amount of information per symbol. The only advantage of an alphabet is that morons get to play too.
considering how much of humanity is moronic, that makes alphabet the superior choice by far
Objectively, sure. In practical terms though, frick no. It's very telling when even nips who grew up knowing nothing but Japanese still couldn't read shit that strays ever so slightly into uncommon territory. How is that not considered a flaw?
>Kanji are literally objectively superior to an alphabet in the amount of information per symbol.
Yes if it made sense, but unfortunately it doesn't help everytime and requires serious dedication to learn:
>The usual subject, verb, complement becomes subject, complement, verb (could easily be learned but can definitely be a throw off)
>Hiragana / katakana, which can be easily learned even if it takes quite some time to memorize properly
>Adding "tsu" to double the next word's letter
>Adding a small character to change the word's pronounciation
>Combining kanjis with eachother for a brand new word
Just all of these can throw people from learning.
You'd probably get more German use out of learning Arabic...
xD
I went to school 6 months, passed N4 and retired from Japanese learning forever. That's good enough for me.
did you have fun?
Not really, no. The other students and the teachers were definitely good people but I'm an asocial moron so I didn't keep in contact with any of them. I also spent about $15,000 USD on tuition, plane tickets and living expenses since I refused to be a cashier or restaurant front attendant since that's all you get as job offers over there.
i'm sorry anon, but i'm also glad that i chose to self study because i knew i was going to suffer your fate otherwise
Yeah, I'd only recommend physically traveling to Japan to learn the language if you're 18-24 years old (specially if you're female) and actually intend on doing something there like attending university or building some long-lasting contacts for business otherwise it's mostly a waste of money.
i'm probably already good enough to have a good time there right now, but i'll study a few more years and then go into their arcades to play fightan games with them
Nice bait to introduce gaijin genes and fullfill abe wish anon
what does this thread have to do with vidya
frick off to your containment board please
most people here want to play vidya in japanese
Go back to your containment boards >>a >>jp >>lgbt
you don't know what you're talking about reddit immigrant
shut up reddit immigrant
it enables me to play, homosexual
This is the only Ganker where I have seen anyone complaining about learn moonrune to enjoy vidya threads. frick off back to lelddit.
I'm learning Japanese for Otaku shit, but aside from Musumate I can't think of any game I'd like to play in Native Japanese right now.
What are some untranslated games that are highly-regarded in Japan but unknown in the west? I wanna try them
Rance X
Ikusa Megami series
Idolm@ster (easy to read)
>you don't know what you're talking about reddit immigrant
I look like this and I quoted that because I got owned
I Know Chinese :^)
I had a dream that I moved to Japan and all the Japanese people were gone.
I've been playing Gunparade March the past day or two. It was pretty funny when I realised that the ecchi mood music was basically copy pasted for Artificial Academy a decade later, same with half the game systems.
>frick text books
>do 9000 anki reps a day
>just like watch anime 10 hours a day
>morons still can't read or speak for shit after years of doing that
>meanwhile most people who just take a Japanese course in uni exit with N1 fluency
literally just do your reps bro
what website is this?
Looks like wanikani, but with some customized interface
oh thanks anon
Maybe I'm wrong. I'm not the anon who posted that picture, but the crabcroc on the top left led me to believe it's wanikani
it is wanikani. i do have a couple extensions, yes.
i'd also recommend using bunpro for grammar
>Tired of arguing on the internet
>Learn Japanese so that I can talk to people that hold similar views as me
>Start arguing with Japanese people on the internet
There is no escape.
What do you argue with japanese people about lol
Mainly fish-keepers. Turns out the Japanese love keeping fish in tiny bowls. A surprisingly large number of them respond by saying the fish has a bigger home than they do, kek (but seriously, it's not like a bigger tank would take much more space).
>getting mad about fish
You know they eat them, right?
you will never be japanese
Learn Chinese instead, it's actually useful and you don't even have to learn characters because everyone already knows how to read pinyin, you can get by simply by recognizing them and typing while on the computer or phone
>chinese
>useful
lolno it only helps you read moron posts by moronic chinks
>you don't even have to learn characters
sup HSK4 tard
As I said before, you don't have to memorize the characters by hand because you can install pinyin on your keyboard and they are automatically set, just by seeing them a couple of times you are able to recognize them, especially if they are relevant words.
I know hundreds of hanzi and I can recognize them but I don't know how to handwrite most of them, because it's simply not necessary unless you want an HSK degree (although some of those tests don't even ask you to write them anymore).
>lolno it only helps you read moron posts by moronic chinks
Japan apart from anime and video games is completely irrelevant, they also don't want to know anything about the outside world, island mentality. China however will be the next world power.
Also, something I've noticed is that the vast majority of people who learn Japanese are weebs who after a few months give up and quit because it's absurdly complicated, with Chinese even though it's hard to pronounce, the grammar is pretty simple and you feel like you advance very fast because you don't have to memorize 20 fricking different ways to say "you."
apart from anime and video games is completely irrelevant, they also don't want to know anything about the outside world, island mentality
So, aside from the only reasons anyone would want to learn a language, they're also isolationist so they're unlikely to start producing globohomosexual dogshit any time soon?
Man, I better drop this language and start learning chink already. Who needs entertainment when you can have exciting talks about what breed of dog tastes the best with third world insects?
>Man, I better drop this language and start learning chink already
you'll drop that language anyways in a few months, I guarantee
I mean, it's been over half a decade and I use it for hours every day, so I doubt it.
>As I said before, you don't have to memorize the characters by hand because you can install pinyin on your keyboard and they are automatically set, just by seeing them a couple of times you are able to recognize them, especially if they are relevant words.
If your only goal is to write at a babby level and frequently mistype and misread characters
>it's simply not necessary unless you want an HSK degree
A HSK certificate is only a measuring stick for your language proficiency level. The top levels of 9/6/11 are just a starting point for normal fluency. If you couldn't pass lower levels any day of the week (including handwriting) you do not know Chinese and should stop larping, which was my point.
>Japan apart from anime and video games is completely irrelevant
Chinese is irrelevant apart from going there in person and doing business which you aren't doing since you're a NEET larping at a millet brewing conference. Not even trying to learn nipponese btw.
>you can get by simply by recognizing them and typing while on the computer or phone
If only Japanese had an actual alphabet you could use to type Kanji.
sorry no speak censorship or liveleak
y'all never be japanese and will always be a dirty gaijins
はい
The only thing holding me back is the writing system at this point. I spent more time on phonemes than actual vocabulary due to the similarities to my agglutinative SOV native tongue
Bros I keep getting filtered by が and は
Just read more lmao you'll get a feel for it. That's the answer to almost any problem with languages
ホモ
Literally the same thing, people will just pretend they're incredibly different just to frick with you.
They're not the exact same though so what's the difference?
The differences are very subtle but overall you can still grasp what's being said and the japanese will still understand you whether you used が or は. Don't worry too much about it because as your understanding naturally deepens over constant exposure you will eventually catch on
は is used when the predicate is more important than the subject
が is used when the subject is more important than the predicate (and always when answering questions)
they actually mean completely different things. the thing that's going to trip you up is: those totally different things that they mean, can often both be used in a given sentence. especially simplified example sentences like XがYです vs XはYです.
random anon's advice: don't worry about it unless you are composing something in Japanese or translation something into Japanese for a Japanese audience
it really isn't.
t. near fluent tokyo resident of 7 years
learning japanese is like getting invested in wow in 2022. if you're an ultra newbie you're going to have to spend months, maybe a few years, before you get to the point where you can discuss with other players the various elements of the game, simply because it's been around for so long and because there's so much content to consume. also it's because your western brain is not used to pictographic languages, and possibly SVO structure.
>tfw know chinese
it's so easy
it's like knowing the alphabet to japanese, I can just intuit what words and phrases means and looking up translations is super easy
not to mention how easy katakana and hiragana is
I don't even need to know the language, lmao
Because the crappy alien gramnar writing non romance should have been nuked or extinguised
Because you are too stupid to learn? Lmao frick off Amerilard EOP
>Read katakana english word.
>What the frick does this mean
>Read it slowly syllable by syllable in your head
>Still can't make it out
>Start actually saying it loudly with your voice over and over
>Still don't get it
>Give up
>1 page later
>Finally clicks
>You now hate loanwords slightly more.
What you don't like ワークライフバランス?
Walk life balance?
Work life balance?
Dumbing down english words with their system makes some shit sounds too similar i hate it.
hence context clues and intuition, and when all else fails, asking
The second. Started popping up in Japan a few years ago, at least that's how I remember.
Any anons get their visa with a criminal history?
Kinda worried mine will ruin my chances. Fricked up pretty bad when I was a dumb kid 11 years ago but have never served time or anything. Have since turned around and got a bachelors degree and good employment.
You can get it. You won't get JET Programme or the like, but you can get stuff. Know a guy that's a recruiter who had a criminal history, and now he's making the fat recruiter money (at least until that bubble finally bursts).
Manga is a better practice rool than vidya to be honest, even if a big ass jrpg enda up having more stuff to read overall.
My skills jumped up tremendously when I just dove into raw manga
For me, translated comics on Danbooru
Yeah vidya is not that good, i mean it helped me a lot but knowing sentences like この鎧の装備はできない is not super helpful.
私はアノン。私は二十四歳。私はアニメが好き。私は日本語が読める。私はとっても上手。私はお前より上手。
You don't need to use 私 so much.
yeah I'm thinking that might have been the joke
Oh nihongo jouzu anon kun.
でも日本人にならない
Very jouzu
私はアノン、二十四歳です。アニメが好き、そしていつも日本語を読みます。なお、日本語がまだ下手、もっと勉強です。
All guides basically say the same thing.
>learn kana
>learn vocab (optional kanji only study)
>read about basic grammar
>read native material on par with your level
>repeat above
Simplified, of course, but what's the big difference between all the vocab decks, does it even matter that much?
stop trying to learn to learn a language and just learn the damn thing
Friendly reminder that Im better than every person in this thread at Japanese 🙂
Except me. I started learning 10 years ago with the DJT on Ganker and now I live and work and Japan, speaking at a near native level.
Yeah still not as good
You must be from /djt/.
I KNEEL, KEN-SAMA
I don't know man, it sounds to me like you're speaking English.
Katakana should dissapear, it should be nuked out of existance.
I understand the importance of kanji and hiragana is simple enough, but there's literally no reason for katakana to exist.
It's literally like if I just started to write *manga* instead of manga. I look like a fricking moron
katakana is fine it's good for emphasis
wasei eigo should be removed however
makes it easier to read tbdesu.
if you were to overhaul Japanese writing so that it had spaces between words or something that makes it more obvious where one word starts and another ends then I could see the argument for katakana being obviated (and probably the Chinese characters for the most part at that point), but as-is katakana is handy.
You can't get rid of kanji because too many words sound the same. In conversation this can be fine, but in writing it'd cause a lot of confusion
Korean did it
and now their language looks disgusting
Koreans have WAY more sounds in their language and way fewer words that sound the same
if it's fine in conversation (which it is mostly), then it can be represented just fine in a written language as well. Japanese speech does not have some extra layer of context that cannot possibly be rendered in writing.
I'm 50% through my n5 deck, another month should be enough to cover the other half if I keep the same tempo and then I plan to start getting more into reading and watching anime without subs. Need to study grammar more though, I'm kinda lagging behind in that compared to anki drilling
>try to learn japanese
>eyesight is shit
>give up because the fricking minute details are incredibly important
I'm legitimately going to kill myself over these fricking eyes. Which moron had the genius idea to make all my hobbies and interests relate to looking at shit? It was me I'm the moron.
nips wear glasses for a reason kek
To look like persona 5 mc
Here's a picture of one of my eyes. I have glasses but they don't do shit because it's not that kind of bad vision. The other eye is similarly fricked up by the way.
what the frick man
Nani sore?!
Bro they put slime in your eyeball
coloboma?
those are some girly eyes
Well that's fricked.
Cute fricking eye though, would date
Bruh don't they have surgery to fix shit like this
the people calling this cute, are you the guys who want to frick slime monsters or what the frick?
looking at this spiked my pulse
Genetics weren't kind to you, it seems.
Kawaii Sony ;_;
What does the Resident Evil 6 logo have to do with anything?
And they say euthanasia shouldn't be legal.
Yes but you won't like when you are youth in asia'd.
girls love defects
a girl i liked gushed about the scar her boyfriend had because he didn't brush his teeth, got an abscess and they had to perform oral surgery on him
I thought this was the inside of a disgusting nose at first. What the frick?
Get glasses
Squint for the authentic Asian experience
>eyes evolved like that because of moonrunes
/v/見ていて思うけど、良い意味でも悪い意味でも日本に執着しているやつ多すぎてこえーわ
英語出来るなら翻訳されたもの消費すれば日々の体力を無駄に消費せずに済むものを…
ろくに翻訳されてるものはほとんどないの分かってるでしょう?
>ろくに翻訳されてるものはほとんどないの分かってるでしょう?
そんなもん日本と欧米では文化が違うから、日本のものを完璧に翻訳するなんて無理に決まってんじゃん
日本の漫画、アニメ、小説、文化、風俗に対して欧米人が違和感を覚えるのはよくあることだろ?
仮にちゃんと翻訳されたものを消費したとしても、文化の違いから違和感を覚えそれを翻訳のせいだーとか言い始めるんだよ、人間は。
>風俗
never fails to make me laugh
風俗
衣・食・住や行事など、その社会集団の生活の上のさまざまな仕方やしきたり。その有様
知っているけど、あの言葉は性的な意味も持っているのこと全然面白いと思います。14歳ではない
It's not. It's perfectly logical.
STOP TALKING AND WRITING LIKE A SAMURAI
YOU SOUND WEIRD
NO ONE TALKS LIKE THAT
NIHONGO NOT JOUZU
Sorry degozaru.
>Ganker - Video Games
see
Learn radicals. You'll learn to stop worrying about >muh stroke counts.
Kanji is fun for the first 3/4 grades until the strokes keep piling up
Coward. The 20+ strokes kanji are the most fun to learn. It's like encoutering a rare pokemon.
I kind of want to learn because I enjoy the sound of it, but I don't even watch animu anymore and I'm not interested in niche games. I don't know what I would use it for
Then dont learn it. you'll give up and waste your time if you have no motivation other than "it's cool"
to shitpost on 2chan
>I don't know what I would use it for
as a hobby
Read manga
To play literally any Japanese game in the original language?
play the original Pokemon games in Japanese, its a good start for learning, have to trust me.
man I can easily play games in jap but reading shit here or in 2chan makes no sense
do we all just talk like schizos in the internet?
Yes?
Read the Ganker-to-2chan translation sites, the slang being translated is way too fricking funny
https://kowakunotsubo.com/archives/ijiranaide-nagatoro-san-ch110/
I’m too lazy to do my WaniKani vocab reps
Hate when they just dump 100 lessons on me
do them slowly
prioritize review over lessons
/jp/ doesn't recommend wanikani for a number of reasons, which are listed here.
https://tatsumoto.neocities.org/blog/faq.html#what-are-the-downsides-of-using-wanikani
god frick off already you turbohomosexual shill
epic cope from ngmis
first point was wrong, stopped reading
>learning ching chong bing bong sucky sucky
The surest sign of low testosterone.
Ja, du bist korrect, niger! Deutch ist der bessere language für menner!
Seriously, have a nice day.
t. personally attacked homosexual
How tiny are your balls, homosexual?
>Enters a thread i don't like
>Post an "argument" that is just bait
>Get told to commit sepukku because your bait was horrible and painfully obvious
>"Triggered much?"
Go ahead, tell me your manly ass hobby (or hobbies, if you even have more than one).
Hard mode: no gun collecting, no gym/fitness, no car collection, those are common as frick.
I knit.
>I knit.
AAAIIIIIEEEEEEEEEE
holy frick look at this assmad low T homosexual learning a language for homosexuals and “men.”
You deserve nothing but torture in this life and the next for what a colossal waste of meat you are, homosexual.
>Same rebuttal
How about you play the macho man somewhere else? Doubt even /misc/ would welcome your ass.
I’m not playing anything, homosexual. I’m making fun of you.
You’re a sad, worthless queer who will die alone. You should feel awful about yourself at every opportunity.
>I’m not playing anything
Ah, yes, the bait wasn't you at all, never existed in the first place, am i right? Still haven't answered my question by the way.
>You’re a sad, worthless queer who will die alone
Put down the projector, the only one seeing lgbt here is your out-of-asylum brain.
>a-answer my question
Why? I don’t owe you anything. Whereas you owe me an apology for what a homosexual you are.
You deserve nothing but the drawn-out pain of a meaningless existence, and you will get it in spades.
>Me, me, me!
The frick are you? A woman? No one owe you shit, go get your (you)s somewhere else, you attention craving moron.
No, homosexual, you owe me an apology for existing. You are a disgrace to my species and incredibly, painfully gay.
Now apologize and endure the pain of your existence quietly.
You do practice your phonemes and pitch accents right?
You aren't aiming to sound blatantly JTL right?
I only care about consumption and maybe talking in Japanese online
I like dogen but what is jtl
Japanese Third Language
dogen is a gay and pitch accent is a complete meme if you're not looking to get a high profile job using the language
your japanese friends dont give a shit if your words sound funny and they understand you anyway
>your japanese friends
What Japanese friends?
What friends?
who the frick are you practicing pitch accent for idiot
It’s a homosexual learning ching chong bing bong.
It’s a genetic failure and has no good reason for anything it does. It should kill itself.
If you're a beginner, please read the guide first.
Updated guide: https://itazuraneko.neocities.org/learn/guide.html
Library: https://itazuraneko.neocities.org/library/librarymain.html
Daily reminder: Read more.
Avoid any japanese 'learning' site that links their patreon garbage. REMINDER, Itazuraneko is the only guide that doesn't beg for donations.
Most likely off-topic, but
>be ESL
>move away from home country
>become more and more exposed to English
>you start to think in English
>you primarily speak in English
>slowly start to forget your own tongue's vocab
>have to look up on Google Translate for YOUR OWN WORDS
It's fricking embarrassing. And I don't know what to do. Do I just pick up a book and try to keep it fresh?
Sure, or take private classes. Same for any expat.
have a nice day
You do it, fricktard. He bought something of value and relevance to the thread. What did you bring, Black person smells?
newbie
that's analcream, an infamous gay from /jp/, he always b***hes about random shit
Okay, my bad I guess, maybe.
>tatsumoto
dostedt?
I hate anki only morons.
NEVER use anki as your main study resource. Only use it as a supplement.
A supplement to what?
You need to learn from something that’s actually going to give you feedback and context, like WaniKani. Something that teaches you the exceptions and rules.
Otherwise you’re going to get an anki deck that throws 一 (ichi) and 一つ (hitotsu) at you and wonder why the frick 一 has two different readings, then get frustrated and give up.
Agreed.
Itazuraneko is the old guide, you can safely ignore it from now on. We on DJT have been working on a replacement guide. So far it's got only positive feedback. https://tatsumoto.neocities.org/
mental illness
ㄏㄟ ㄕㄚˇ ㄍㄨㄚ 。 ㄖㄨˊ ㄍㄨㄛˇ ㄩㄢˋ ㄧˋ , ㄎㄜˇ ㄧˇ ㄩㄥˋ ㄓㄨㄥ ㄨㄣˊ ㄏㄜˊ ㄖˋ ㄨㄣˊ ㄉㄜ˙ ㄧㄡ ㄒㄧㄡˋ ㄕㄨ ㄒㄧㄝˇ ㄒㄧˋ ㄊㄨㄥˇ ㄍㄟˇ ㄉㄚˋ ㄐㄧㄚ ㄒㄧㄝˇ ㄒㄧㄣˋ 。 ㄋㄧˇ ㄇㄣˊ ㄓㄜˋ ㄒㄧㄝ ㄕㄚˇ ㄍㄨㄚ ㄩㄥˇ ㄩㄢˇ ㄅㄨˋ ㄏㄨㄟˋ ㄓ ㄉㄠˋ ㄖㄨˊ ㄘˇ ㄔㄨ ㄙㄜˋ ㄉㄜ˙ ㄒㄧㄝˇ ㄗㄨㄛˋ ㄐㄧㄠˇ ㄅㄣˇ 。 ㄒㄧㄤˋ ㄨㄛˇ ㄏㄜˊ ㄨㄛˇ ㄉㄜ˙ ㄐㄧˋ ㄋㄥˊ ㄐㄩ ㄍㄨㄥ 。
O_O
What ancient runes are these?
why don't you folks like professional translations done by masters of the japanese language?
>can understand every word in a sentence
>but I can't actually understand what the sentence is saying
How do I fix this?
grammar
I watch Cure Dolly and read Imabi but I can't say it's been helping me much.
No, I guess I'll have to try it out.
Pretty much every sentence that's longer than 3 words or so.
Have you tried not being moronic
time to start reading and learning grammar
Post the sentence
I don't know but you probably cant understand this anyway
That makes no sense. Do you mean you can understand the sentence but simply can't pinpoint the right words for a translation? Because that's a common problem for most people.
No no, I mean I understand the words individually, but not the sentence. It's like, take the sentence "There is a red apple on the table", well imagine that I understand every word individually but I cannot comprehend what information the sentence itself is conveying, that's the problem I have with japanese.
テーブルの上に赤いリンゴがあります
you don't get it?
This one I get but take
for example, I just do not understand what is being said, I can understand the words individually, and I understand the beginning, but when you get to "生活の上のさまざまな仕方やしきたり。その有様" I just do not understand what is being said here, even though I do understand the words by themselves.
I think it is quite possibly due to the order of the sentence. You need to like, find a way to read Japanese that makes sense to your brain. Personally, I just pluck all the relevant bits and then re-arrange them into English ordering.
>テーブルの上に赤いリンゴがあります
in my head becomes
>上 テーブル 赤い リンゴ
I don't delete the particles, but instead, they help dictate where they should end up when I remap them into English grammar.
>remap them into English grammar
don't do that
works for me, it's only a shortcut when reading
>I think it is quite possibly due to the order of the sentence.
Yes I also think that's one of the reasons why I have trouble with it, japanese sentence structure is different from the other languages I know and I just can't seem to adapt to it.
Maybe try the re-arranging thing like I suggested until you pick up the grammar, it becomes easier once you associate the order change with what each particle does and eventually you can just read it in the japanese order. Ultimately, unless you're writing, reading is extracting relevant data anyway and all speed-readers do this to some degree in their native language.
japanese particles are announcing the function of each word. it's like me saying "anon subject ball object throw", which means "anon throws a ball". it can't be much clearer
I don't know what to tell you anon, I've looked up grammar guides and read up on particles but I still have serious trouble with understanding sentences. Maybe I'm just not intelligent enough.
A sentence is built around the verb. Even if you don't understand some of the expressions in a sentence, you'll still understand the point of a sentence if you spot the main verb and figure out how the other words relate to the main verb
gatekeeping is important in jap culture, the language reflects that
>/djt/ shitposting even here
It was inevitable. Why is /djt/ such a MASSIVE shithole anyway?
they're autistic they can't help it
I never see it mentioned but I use yomichan to get kanji definitions while browsing. It's really useful.
>https://foosoft.net/projects/yomichan/
Also works for slang and even some memes. Powerful stuff.
It's really useful for reading raw VNs when inevitably some piece of shit uncommon word pops out and it's not said by a heroine so there is no voice.
If your going to actually learn a langauge learn a useful one like mandarin that will help you succeed in your career
Japense is a meme langauge and only useful if you want to live in a country thats miserable
Mandarin is not useful, no Chinese person you're going to do business with is going to have the patience to listen to you speak Mandarin to them. They're just going to speak to you in English instead.
>t. have a minor in Mandarin because of the "good for business career" meme
They are also xenophobic as frick so you're better off getting an Asian to do the business for you instead.
no language is useful if you can't actually hold a normal conversation with it. that's your personal failure. english is the only exception to that because it's the de facto international language and you're just lucky you started with it
I can very much have a conversation in Mandarin, but it doesn't matter. Straight to English every time.
I don't want to rape my nose with those insectoid nasal inflections thanks
Japan and the USA were pretty close in suicide rates 5 years ago, not sure where they are now though
>learning a language for a pragmatic purpose
Nice way to burn the frick out and never become fluent. Consooming content you like is 99% of the learning process and good look finding something you want to read if you don't actually care for the language or the country or anything.
American whites commit kms at the same rate, it's only shitskins dragging our numbers down
>like mandarin that will help you succeed in your career
You made me upload pic related. I hope you're proud of yourself.
the grammar is simple, but the concept of kanji is fricking stupid. memorizing 2000+ stacks of bologna with multiple readings was a terrible idea. at least kanji look cool.
>memorising 2000 kanji
>memorising 2000 words and spellings
What's the difference, it's just vocab
words written with an alphabet can be phonetically sounded out.
kanji is just either you know it or you don't.
going further, i can sound out an unfamiliar word written with an alphabet, but can only guess at an unfamiliar kanji based on its radicals
You can sometimes guess the meaning from the particles.
>what's the difference between language with 4000 characters and language with 26 characters???
the difference is that you can read one without knowing them
if i told you 寿 was the kanji for long life, and 司 was the kanji for an official or leader, then what does the word 寿司 mean?
>ateji
How do you pronounce the K in knight?
I looked this up but I'm sure Google translate is just trolling
>grammar is simple
>grammar seems really easy
alright, off the top of my head, shit that gives me trouble
>when to use 次第, よって, and 応じて (they basically mean depending on)
>should you use こと or の as nominalizer?
>でない and ではない. when to use one over the other?
>ところ. still can't quite get what it means (e.g. 危ないところだった. oh, and then there's ばかり vs ところ)
>際, 時, and 場合 (basically when they're used for when (e.g. when doing something))
>ろくに/めったに /あまり/ほとんど ~ ない. no idea when to use which
btw, it's a lot easier to understand than it is to compose something.
i realize i have the grammatical skills of a 5 year old and need to study more
How is the Ganker general better than the /jp/ one?
you're all b***hes
The more I learn Japanese the more I realize it’s literally the most moronic language on this planet. I’m too far in to quit now though.
My only driving force being to play games in their native language, and bag me a nip wife to cook me meals and put some children in.
i think the syllabary idea is great compared to english's quasi-phoenetics, even if the sound inventory is a lot smaller.
the grammar seems really easy too.
but i'm still learning basic stuff, so may change my mind one day.
>wanting to marry a yellow woman
Enjoy the neighbor winking at you when you get home from work every day, cucky.
Seethe more roastie. You had your chance to be partner material. Have fun fricking the neighborhood out of boredom and being overall useless, wondering why no one will marry you in your 40s.
>this much cope
>the homosexual doesn’t even know about cheating culture on Moon Monkey Island
pffffthahahahaHAHAHA
You will never please a woman, you flaming baby dick gay.
>missed out on securing a hot white woman while they’re young
>has to resort to a woman from a culture so foreign that they’ll never truly understand you
Oh I’m laffin
Bros I'm going to study in Japan in January, any tips? I'm taking a 12 week preparation course first
Where in Japan?
Akihabara. I'm staying there for about a year or so
Get fuarkin shredded and work on your stroke game so you don’t bust in them immediately. Cream those slanted hoes brudda
They have made it hard on purpose to keep the foreigners out. English is so easy every cretin can utter complete sentences.
I will never be Japanese
It's unironically a bad language with autistic rules for no reason, so also: Arabic and Hindi
That's all languages
Not spanish! jajajajaja
No. Some languages were made by men.
The moon language was made by “men.”
English is equally moronic
It's not
Suggest Gankergames to play in japanese
>Gankergames
No such thing
Depends on your skill level. For beginners, I recommend DQXIs. Fantasy language is a staple and the game was absolutely fricking butchered in English, so it's nice to play a game where you play as the 勇者 and not a fricking "luminary". Plus, it's written for 5 year olds with furigana.