Yeah. This game's shit. This sequence here alone literally killed any respect I had for the game and affirmed any flaws I was trying to handwave.
For those who don't understand. When you escape Paul's Apartment and go through the subway. When you come out at battery park. moronnther (Gunther) is there to ambush you. The game is shit, so it's not designed for you to win or sneak by. I tried to figure out how to get around this for a while and realized there are some boxes, that I could jump over if I brought the trashcan from inside the station out to it, turned on the speed enhancement Aug, and turned on my thermo camo and did exactly that...and there's an invisible wall. The game won't let you escape arbitrarily.
"Emergent gameplay" my fricking ass. Bad game. Shit game.
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shit like this depresses me about games in general, when something that's often called "the greatest game of all time" pulls down shit like this and its gameplay isn't even tt8vgg
hat amazing enough too to ignore this, you become disillusioned with games, because if one of the greatest old games is shit, and you have nothing new to look forward to then...what's left?
yeah i guess you should just have a nice day
>what's left?
Majora's Mask.
hmmm you're maybe right, I keep putting it off, but It did make me like side quests for once. But I just can't get the perception out of my mind that Zelda=Baby game ever since playing the greatest game of all time ocarina of time, and wind waker, especially WW, that game was so braindead I couldn't continue.
>often called "the greatest game of all time"
What about the "worst games of all time"? How do the developers feel about that? Did they know they were working on a pile of garbage, while they were working on it?
You haven't gotten far enough yet
I feel like reinstalling
>You haven't gotten far enough yet
far enough for what? also this shit is objectively egregious regardless no? wtf
It's one of those "it gets really good after 10 hours" games
...well I have 20 hours at this point, I guess cuz I waste my time fricking around trying to create fun cuz the game is so easy
so I end up spending hours trying to get picrel to work before I realize the front door is already open (this is me stacking some boxes to get into the NSF castle the first time I enter battery park)
When is "it gets good 10 hours in" for somebody who's 20 hours in at Paul escape part?
so...why exactly does it get "really good" after 10 hours" and what does that mean specifically, like what point? or moment should one look forward to
>one agent
>barely has any augs
>has basic b***h weapons
>against fricking military bots
>BRO WHY CAN I NO BEAT THE GAME
Tell you what wienersucker, beat them all, set a fllag on Gunther to be killable
Let me see the video of you doing it okay? No? homosexual? Please? I beg? Ok sar! Do the needful sar!
...??? what the frick even is your point? because mine is that this is fake gameplay with no actual solution, itight aswell be a cutscene or interactive cutscene...or a "setpiece" the dirty word you losers throw at "moviegames"
I never whined that it was too hard, the point is the game LITERALLY arbitrarily prevents me from escaping by using my wits with a moronic invisible wall.
So theres a scripted sequence in the game or several? The game is great but i think your under some impression its 100% emergent as you say. You just assumed this and probably hyped it too much in your head that now its impossible for it to live up. Just quit, im not here to convince you to give it a shot any further
>You just assumed this and probably hyped it too much in your head that now its impossible for it to live up. Just quit, im not here to convince you to give it a shot any further
Nobody "assumed" anything, this is how the game is talked about. Besides there are other criticisms one can make beyond this, it's not even close to the greatest game ever or a perfect game, but atleast I was enjoying it long enough to put a bunch of hours into on end.
I don't care whether you "convince" me of anything. This is Ganker I'm not expecting some deep engagement with the idea of invisible walls and sequences your meant to lose, I expect the circlejerk to brrush it off because it's Deus ex, but in any other game morons would harp on this. I just spoke out because I couldnt believe it and nobody ever says anything bad about this game.
>your meant
My what?
I can't think of a single immersive Sim that doesn't have at least some form of scripted progression to give it structure, but never have I considered deus ex to be the ultimate embodiment of immerisive Sims. Especially when you look at modern games like the system shock remake where progression is more dynamic.
His first one was probably skyrim which let's you clip out of reality without even trying so anything less than that is restrictive in his mind
>Especially when you look at modern games like the system shock remake where progression is more dynamic.
My problem isn't with "structured progression". I prefer that in most games. Open World games. Specifically Breath of the Wild and ToTK are probably the most "free" and "dynamic" games ever...and they have garbage actually gameplay. It's a game made up solely of "mechanics" with no actual gameplay coherence.
System Shock Remake gave me open world vibes in its progression, and that's bad to me because open world "exploration" is more wandering than navigation. You pick a direction, and follow through with that direction until you find something and then you pick another direction. There's no meaning to that navigation because there's so many directions that all of them are technically "right". The only difference is that System Shock DOES have a right way, so it doesn't have the same filler side content that open worlds do, and feels even more boring and hollow.
But that's a debate for another time that people aren't ready for.
I definitely thing open world game design isn't that engaging. There must absolutely be an associative reason to why I didn't like elden ring, despite it not being a game I can immediately say is irredeemable. I simply just felt not sense of agency in discovery on top of whatever I did happen to find, never yielding anything useful for my build.
That said, I'm still not sure I understand your problem with deus ex 1 beyond the Gunther section. I think the game has aged rather well given its level of interactivity in comparison to the static environments of modern pretty games.
>I think the game has aged rather well given its level of interactivity in comparison to the static environments of modern pretty games.
You can find about as much interactivity in Ocarina of Time, besides something being less static doesn't mean it's dynamism was used that creatively. Look I'm not saying Deus Ex is bad, but it's not greatest game tier, this was really the only moment I actually thought it to be "bad". But getting back to your point about "static environments" sometimes I feel like people use words to carry their arguments. Because throughout my Deus Ex playthrough so far, it's "interactivity" genuinely reminded me of zelda, not just because they're similarly easy,a bit because they have same feeling of "use the right tool for the obvious obstacle. The example I use most is the blatant places boxes or TNT. The game's interactivity didn't wow me, it didn't feel any different than any game I've played, and that's not because I've played other immersive sims, or even that many games. I just don't think Deus Ex uses it that amazingly. But it's fine, because what I actually think is good about Deus Ex is that exploration feels very rewarding like there's always a surprise to find, and I like the little "obstacles" it makes you save because they feel somewhat "natural" compared to the abstractness of Zelda.
I'm still open to the game wowing me, I just think it's circlejerked too much.
I'm not sure if I agree with your argument as the environments in Zelda usually lead to linear approaches and solutions whereas in deus ex I'm given many different approaches to a solution. At least on my game experience of it. Not only that, but generally the only things that weren't baked into Zelda was grass and pots, off the top of my head, I couldn't make a cigarette tower or blow up trash bags and employ them as solutions to objects within Zelda. That's the difference if you ask me. As for nostalgia goggles, I do agree that people like to look back on their own childhood with zealous idealism and most games from this period aged quite poorly and I would struggle trying to recommend most of them as gaming experiences. Since gaming should be about escapism first and foremost and immersive Sims accomplish this far better through emergence than most titles. I don't think deus ex is a God tier game of the best of the best, but it is still a good game and completely approachable to even a zoomer. I think that's rather nice.
>I'm not sure if I agree with your argument as the environments in Zelda usually lead to linear approaches and solutions whereas in deus ex I'm given many different approaches to a solution. At
First of all. This isn't even necessarily true, there are a plethora of ways you can "solve" different problems in Ocarina and many Zelda games, maybe there's much more I'm Deus Ex, but that's a distinction without a difference.
I also don't want to say you're moving the goalposts, so instead I'll say this was a point about "static" environments, and interactivity. How linear something is has no relation to how interactive or linear it is. Next. Deus Ex IS a linear game. If you come to a fork in the road with two paths (btw there is LITERALLY a part of a level like this in Deus ex btw, wish I had the screenshot" The fact that you can take 2 paths, wouldn't make it non linear. It would mean you have TWO linear paths. Even if they ultimately converged.
>I couldn't make a cigarette tower or blow up trash bags and employ them as solutions to objects within Zelda.
That's a fallacy your committing, because just because there is no exact version of this, doesn't mean Zelda doesn't have something similar either. You can't catch fish, or fairies, or bugs, or water in a bottle I'm Deus Ex. Plus there are a BUNCH of things in Deus ex that don't work but should, like the shit it constantly pulls where it arbitrarily makes something "Door INF, Lock INF, Bypass INF, so that you're force to use a story "option" or "tool" picrel is an example, but ironically an example right before the Gunther station fight is the keypad to the station where the code is told to you by Paul 6282. The game does this ALL the time.
>I don't think deus ex is a God tier game of the best of the best, but it is still a good game and completely approachable to even a zoomer.
I don't disagree, if Ganker was more humble and didn't have the "old good new bad" mentality, then I wouldn't care as much.
>i don't like good thing
>i am so enlightened
nah you're gay
I'm glad you don't like it; you don't deserve to enjoy anything lol
>I should be able to escape
>ok prove you can escape
>wtf? no this is bad game design
bro, this is entirely you here, why are you ytolling?
I like it.
So you're the type of homosexual that devs occassionally waste time on a "game over" ending to appease because you insist on doing something incredible moronic.
To be fair when I also played through the game I had no idea Gunther was Immortal and spent an hour dying to him over and over despite having shit like 25 missiles and crap on me. But when I moved on it and realized, it was fine. I think op is overly biased. The only real genuine complaint I had with vanilla was that you couldn't unequip camo and armors.
I've never played the game and think it sucks
Thanks for your worthless opinion, Black person.
This isn't even a "filtered" situation. This is like a "you must be 18 to make an account please enter your age" and you enter 15 situation.
Why didn't you figure out his killswitch you Flatlander troony?
I thought the same thing too but this is a different part
>one invisible wall
The difference between Deus Ex and other games is that other games add invisible walls because they want to. Deus Ex only did it because of the realities of production. They wanted to make all of New York freely explorable. It still has way more freedom than other games of that era.
>Deus Ex only did it because of the realities of production.
I actually COMPLETELY expected somebody to give this reasoning btw, which is why I was initially going to preempt it, but just have forgotten. This is such echo chamber logic btw.
Anyway this is objectively wrong. The game has already shown us to be able to explore battery park before. I don't remember if battery park has a helipad, but that's where we were supposed to be picked up anyway. Not to mention that...what? How the frick is this a problem of "production" or age? And what kind of moron makes this argument and then treats other games with this weird double standard? Games put invisible walls because they can't think of a clean way to make sure a player can't go a certain way, that fits into their game. Or because they can't render something blah blah blah. if you're appealing to "but much production" Deus Ex gets no excuse, especially because this part is EXTRA bad for essential being a scripted cutscene/setpiece you have to play out that tricks you into thinking you can do something.
OH BTW, because I like fricking around, I tried exiting the station through the vent...how convenient, it also has that "Door INF, Lock INF" thing I was talking about.
you should read the Deus Ex design docs (once you've finished the game), it explains more about the philosophy behind the game and their initial ambitions. It's very different from the typical corridor shooter of the time
>It's very different from the typical corridor shooter of the time
I'm sure it is. But we're past the time where corridor shooters (of which they're was really only 1 in half life, so it should more appropriately be compared to doom since a corridor shooter was actually fairly unique for its time, plus I've heard people say HL1 is imsim like anyway)
I have a MEGA bias against the concept of an imsim, like a serious one. But it's not feelings based, and I really shouldn't even use "bias". But I respect the principle. I actually like Deus Ex best when it's not giving me a boring binary decision between boring "option 1" or "option 2" but rather when I pick option "3" and feel smart and efficient for blowing up both the lasers and the guards in liberty statue with the tnt, instead of the boring vent, that avoids all danger, where I'd have to play out shitty brain-dead stealth on a moronic AI anyway.
There's actually a way the game could make almost any option "meaningful". But the fact that I can only thing of ONE single game that has ever done "multiple solutions" well and not make it feel like it falls flat tells me that maybe it's not as easy, especially because that game I'm talking about had to be fairly linear as compromise (not that deus ex isn't.) but Deus Ex atleast is a decent midway point. It's not as pointlessly "free" as breath of the wild, but it's not as tight as...game I shall not name.
Maybe I'll read the design docs if there's a YouTube video on it and I'm bored enough
>But the fact that I can only thing of ONE single game that has ever done "multiple solutions" well
Well? Are you gonna tells what game is that?
I don't really understand Op's argument still after reading it all and responding to him a few times. I'm not particularly clever and I'm kinda high, but I do trust my tastes as someone who doesn't have nostalgia glasses. There is so much jank I couldn't stomach, yet deus ex 1 was pretty danm fun for me. I don't get the issue. I'm gonna go play more dead space remake I guess. Have fun with your thread.
The game isn't perfect, it's reasonable that the devs likely didn't expect you to get to that point. Your critique is fair, but the game did have a bit of a rushed development. Alot of content had to be cut.
^ This is what happens when homosexual zoomers grow up on clickbait youtubers
>zoomie gets filtered by boomer games #82813
Literally one of the easiest games I have ever played.
webm related
OP's playthrough
Smoothbrain underage time
OPs a gay
>a single scripted sequence completely ruined the image of the game I built up in my head, now watch me b***h and moan this whole thread
Are you also the homosexual who was writing a whole novel crying that people were making fun of him for liking TLOU2?