Your favorite game is, by definition, not a roguelike.
 It's All Fucked Shirt $22.14 |
 |
It's All Fucked Shirt $22.14 |
Your favorite game is, by definition, not a roguelike.
Your favorite game is, by definition, not a roguelike.
It's All Fucked Shirt $22.14 |
|
It's All Fucked Shirt $22.14 |
your mom is a rougelike
everyone tries her back again and again
>implying my mom's alive
I'm sorry anon, I didn't know my dick was that big
It's not?
Checks out, my favorite game is Rogue
Not a roguelike. Go back to
you dumbass
>Spend an hour on a chart to let everyone know how upset you get when things are mislabeled
>People either ignore or continue mislabeling intentionally
Good thread, keep an eye on your blood pressure
Or I can keep calling it one and you'll seethe impotently with leftist meme images.
>does it require strategy?
>yes -> its a hack and slash
>no -> its a beat em up
this is what offends me the most
please understandu, hack and slash sometimes requires a different button to be pressed
the person who made this chart never played a beat em up past the second stage
Same, jesus fricking christ
>is it exactly like Rogue?
>no
>not a roguelike
>yes
>still not a roguelike
Simplified it for you
Isn't the difference between hack and slash and beat em up is one has weapons and the other doesn't?
The difference is a hack-and-slash game is a game like Diablo and a beat-em-up is a game like Streets of Rage
Ooh I just call Diablo ARPG.
For your point it's true. The platforming mechanics are the same (jump on stuff, run around, etc etc). What change is context, trapping and a lot of other stuff sure, but at the core of the matter 3D vs 2D platformers is just that. If you can think of a better way to phrase it I'm interested in hearing it.
I would call Dark Souls an ARPG. It’s equal parts action game and RPG.
Ah, the finer nuances are clear to me now, on ARPGs vs hack and slash games. I thank you
dark souls is an action rpg not an arpg
diablo is an arpg not an action rpg
That seems at once needlessly confusing and also pointlessly leaves the term “hack and slash” totally unassigned to anything whereas people have been calling Diablo a hack-and-slash forever.
Unless you’re one of those people who uses the term hack-and-slash to refer to action games, and then uses the term “action game” to refer to literally fricking everything, but if you’re going to do that calling dark souls an action-rpg is pointless because the word action has itself become pointless
>people have been calling Diablo a hack-and-slash forever
people have been calling shmups shooters since forever, but if you say shooter now most people will just think of fps
Has anyone been calling shmups “shooters”? I know the Japanese call them “shooting games” but that’s not really in common usage outside Japan.
What the frick do you think the "A" in "ARPG" stands for? America?
2d and 3d platformers technically have you doing the same thing, but the way the games work is completely different because of the perspective change. 3d focus more on world exploration, and using different moves to get around. while 2d focus more on precision platforming challenges. But you can still make a 3d platformer play more like a 2d one, crash bandicoot does that.
The same difference happens with beat em ups and hack and slashes, hack and slashes focus much more on your moves, and the weapons you're using, while beat me ups have simpler moves, and more focus on positioning and screen control.
isn't the difference between 3d platformers and 2d platformers that one you can go forward and the other you can only go left and right?
beat em up is a genre about fighting guys with melee weapons, usually with some level of in-depth mechanics. (beat em up is usually thought of as 2d)
hack and slash is specifically a derisive term for games with overly simplistic sword combat which has over time become "any game with a sword" and is still not a genre term
My favorite game is dark souls and you can die in it so yes it is a roguelike
I'd be surprised if I found out my most liked game was defined as a roguelike.
what game?
The thing that always gets me with this is that people are defining the genre backwards. Turn based and tile based are clearly the most defining features of a roguelike
>Do you move around in a world?
>yes: its a platformer
you heard it here first folks
dark souls is a platformer.
what a moronic homosexual worthless chart.
>A roguelike with a gimmic or a twist is no longer a roguelike
No one says this about any other genera. Imagine if they said TF2 isn't an FPS because you can't look down the sights.
The things you think are gimmicks are not gimmicks but massive gameplay departures and are absolutely not on the level of a mechanical change like ads.
>Massive gameplay departures like jumping, tiles, 3rd person view
Compared to Rogue, yes. Because when you say jumping you don't mean "the character can traverse gaps in tiles", you mean the game is no longer turn based and you control your character freely.
Yes.
Yes, it's no longer a roguelike because it's no longer like Rogue. TF2 is still an FPS because you're still shooting from a first person perspective, moron.
>because you can't look down the sights.
I don't recall looking down the sights in Wolfenstein 3D.
>fav game is Fear & Hunger
Lmao, get fricked
is this a roguelike?
>equipment tagging
no
More mystery dungeon... so kinda... it's more roguelike than a lot of things that try to pass themselves off as roguelike.
>more mystery dungeon
>he says in reply to MYSTERY DUNGEON SHIREN THE WANDERER
holy frick the IQ level in these threads
It's a bunch of small roguelikes tied together with a shared metaprogression. But then metaprogression in roguelikes is controversial in itself.
Metaprogression should be an instant invalidation honestly because it radically changes how you play the game and what kind of skills it needs. I think it's acceptable if the 'main' mode removes the metaprogression keeping it as an optional easy/casual mode, though.
Honestly though, metaprogression is awful. It turns it from being a skill/knowledge based game into just being about how much time you've spent playing and your success is guaranteed. You will never beat nethack ever unless you actually learn the game and make good decisions. You will 100% beat Rogue Legacy if you just play it enough even if you are moronic and learn nothing.
I actually agree and it’s funny because I think the idea of metaprogression through iterated runs is the best aspect of the whole “genre” and it’s the absolute antithesis of what made actual roguelikes unique (that you had to start utterly from scratch each time and that gave the game real stakes)
Depends what kind of metaprogression we're talking. Unlocking new characters/classes is "metaprogression" too, but no one would complain about a true roguelike having that.
Mystery dungeon's leveling and item keeping are pretty far diwn tgd proverbial scale though.
No, because there is persistence between runs (sending stuff out of the current dungeon to store house to use in other runs, metaprogression with the town/side characters and quests that persists between runs)
NOTHING should be carrying over between lives, and for that reason MD games are definitively not Rogue-like.
I like the meta progression of shiren 1, you can leave some items behind that you're not using, so its just a small help for next runs, but you're not gonna let the big items behind because you need them right now, there are ways to grind, but its not very efficient and you don't really need it. In the first torneko you can escape the dungeon and bring back everything you had, so if you find a really good item, you can potentially use it for all your next runs as long as you escape, which allows you to grind and have stuff like the ring that stops hunger always with you. Other games are even worse with this and you can grind a lot, which I think goes against the rogue philosophy.
thanks, i'll check them out
It is, don't let morons who whine about muh metaprogression fool you
Both are too primitive, but Nethack is still plenty playable .
Oh that's good. Because I don't like roguelikes.
But that image said it's arguably one.
>i-is that a shop screen?
>AIEEEEE
berlin absolutists always get a kek.
this definition is like the term 'gameplay loop' only autists care about it, i'll continue to call any game with deathruns and meta progression 'roguelites'
this is fricking stupid because to get to the bubbles where it lists examples you'd have to have lied on previous answers
Nobody actually likes Rogue or Nethack in current year, right? It's surely an elaborate bait scheme
I like Mystery Dungeon, so I tried to get into traditional roguelikes to see if I'd like them too, and I'm autistic enough to think ASCII graphics are cool.
Rogue seems too simple, its the original game so I don't blame it, but I don't see the point in playing it again once you beat it once.
Nethack seems really fricking cool when you're learning, but after the initial learning curve, you realize you will be doing a lot of boring repetitive tasks if you want to play safe, like using your pet to find if an item is cursed. Also a lot of mechanics seem to be complex just for the sake of complexity and not add much to it (this is common in most wrpgs to be fair), like the weapon proficiency thing just locks you out of trying new weapons (in a game where you're already scared shit to try anything because of curses and bad effects). I respect the game's importance, but I wouldn't play it seriously.
Right now I'm playing DCSS because I thought that page on their design philosophy was based as frick. Its much better than Nethack imo, but I still don't like some design choices like every scroll being unidentified and you having to try them out everytime to see what they do, or the weapon proficiency thing for the same reason as in Nethack (even though you can control set where your exp goes in DDSS), but I haven't played that much, so there's probably some justification for this.
Still want to play ADOM, but I'm not expecting it to be that good.
Play *bands like PosChenBand or FrogComposband if you want MORE
Why wouldn't you play Nethack? It's good.
Nobody like Rogue because it's too simplistic. But, Nethack has more depth than any other roguelike. If you like roguelikes, Nethack is the best there is.
If enough people say something, it becomes true. Definitions can change over time. Just like Binding of Isaac or Darkest Dungeon being real roguelikes
The purpose of words is not to force an arbitrary definition that people must use but to reflect the meaning of the words as they are actually used. A dictionary for example is meant to be descriptive of what people mean when they say words, not to prescribe what they should mean.
If most people describe these kind of games as roguelikes, then that's what they are to most people. You are not more correct because you are going off an archaic definition that the majority doesn't adhere to. Just because it may have been used that way at some point in time doesn't make it true today.
>The purpose of words is not to force an arbitrary definition that people must use but to reflect the meaning of the words as they are actually used
According to whom?
Pic related is what "everything is a roguelike"-gays support
Absolutely no one gives a shit about relating to Rogue itself when using the term Roguelike. They care about relating to the features that actually made Rogue distinct from much of anything else regardless of perspective or character/combat mechanics. What does that mean? It's run-based with meaningful (but not necessarily *total*) randomness. That's all.
Part of the problem is I think you can meaningfully use the term “roguelike” to describe both a set of mechanics AND a genre of game. This isn’t the only genre that’s like this; Ghostrunner is a game about swiftly moving around an arbitrary maze of jumps but nobody would call it a “platformer”. It has platformer mechanics, to be sure, but the genre is something else entirely
No actually being able to jump is all that matters, it also has actual platforms
But you see how that makes like 60% of all games “platformers”, thus utterly defeating the purpose of having a genre label in the first place? By that logic Sekiro is a platformer, Breath of the Wild is a platformer, Just Cause 2 is a platformer, Saints Row is a platformer, etc
You can describe a set of mechanics a certain way but the inclusion of a set of mechanics does not define a genre. ESPECIALLY so when the application of those mechanics is not rigorously specified and is interpreted in plain language (i.e. you jump on platforms so it’s a platformer)
that's absolutely right, which is why 60% of all games are also roguelikes because they have something in common with rogue, that's just how it works now
My point is that it’s reasonable to describe Dead Cells as having “rogue-like mechanics” since it copies the defining unique features of Rogue, while at the same time not saying it’s the same genre of game as Rogue.
Which label people use, I don’t care (rogue-lite seems popular enough) but it IS something to label because it’s a key design feature that separates Dead Cells from other games in its genre (which you MIGHT otherwise call a Metroidvania, which is another genre label people go to fricking war over)
>crypt of the necrodancer
>hack and slash
has this incel never seen a rhythm game before
>space invaders is a roguelike
Not turn based
>argumentum ad populum
Pathetic plebeians
It is not ad populum to say that the threshold of "like" is less strict in useful practice than you insist.
>like isn't strict for these mechanics
>but it is for these
This has already been explained to (You).
see
>They care about relating to the features that actually made Rogue distinct from much of anything else
"it is the way I say it is" isn't an explanation, it's you being autistic. You're simply triggered that your internalised word definition has been challenged.
>You're simply triggered that your internalised word definition has been challenged.
You have lost. No further replies are necessary.
You're doing it again, simply proclaiming "i'm correct". You don't actually have an argument. If I can pick any minor features of rogue and proclaim any game that has them is a roguelike then basically every video game is a roguelike.
>randomisation and losing your run
Centipede is a roguelike
>you can use a variety of weapons and fight goblins
Dragons Dogma is a roguelike
>It's turn based and tile based
Chess is a roguelike.
Oh no sorry it's only the features you decide make something like rogue.
Once you get to this point though you're no longer describing a genre, almost every game has rogue like mechanics.
I know noitagays are itt
*AHEM* FRICK APOTHEOSIS
that is all
>Rerelease any old arcade game but you randomize the levels and an upgrade shop
>It's now an action roguelike
Yes it is.
>Dungeon music starts
>Various sub-genres of Metal music have very much not-Heavy segments of things like piano lines and vocal harmonies
>"Those songs aren't Metal!"
You are stupid.
False equivalence. Being a completely different genre and control scheme is different to having a piano segment for 15 seconds.
Hell, even in your example, it's more like someone describing those things are 'heavy metal' rather than metal, and in those examples you would rightly point out they are not heavy metal but another subgenre of metal. No one has issues with people saying things like 'platformer with roguelike elements' or something. The issues is when you try to pretend that rogue legacy, nethack, FTL, and Binding of Isaac are somehow the same genre which is obviously ridiculous.
You realize that we have long since passed the point of using a single term to describe these abominations? "Roguelike" is a tag like "open-world" is and to insinuate that anyone is calling these games roguelikes with an intent that they're all the same is just as ludicrous as that intent.
No we haven't. All that's changed is idiots misusing the term because they're ignorant. Roguelike still means what it did 20 years ago.
If what you said was true then the term roguelike becomes so vague that it has literally no meaning.
What does everything that gets described as rogulike have in common, Anon? There is an answer to this question and hopefully when you find it you'll realize what a moron you've been.
Nothing. Not all of them are the same basic genre. Not all of them have full randomization. Not all of them have actual permadeath and allow restarts/saving/lives.
>Being a completely different genre and control scheme is different to having a piano segment for 15 seconds.
First, we're talking about more like a third or half of the song, maybe even the whole things, not "fIfTeEn SeCoNdS." Second, no, it isn't a false equivalence. Adding piano to metal is very comparable to having meta-progression as in a rogue-lite or adding substantial platforming alongside the regular hack and slash shit (with the randomization and permadeath still in place).
This is actually a pretty tidy comparison. Imagine if the first musical act to tie together a bunch of genres were -liked and people were arguing about whether that -like means those specific genres or the abstract concept of bringing together multiple genres ("progressive," "fusion," "<genre1> <genre2>").
baroque music had very strict rules
>metal music with non heavy segments, piano lines and clean vocals
disgusting. remember to always gatekeep your hobbies
friendly reminder that metalcore isn't metal
stay away from my prog death metal
>>
vocals
I, too, only appreciate music that sounds like an active dishwasher
yes
?si=ZXYt5quBmH8O_GYv
wazhack is 100% a roguelike but this image defines it as a platformer
Elona sucks
if it has permadeath and procedural generation then it's a roguelike.
Why are roguelikegays so autistic?
god who cares about any of this shit
Why did you click this thread?
I don't know and I'm closing it now, see you morons
if a game is like rouge then it's a rougelike
If the game starts over from the beginning when you die it's a rougelike.
There is really no middle ground between
>every genre is a *like and so restrictive we need thirteen bajillion of them
>every genre is a marketing label and has zero restrictions
is there?
dcss would probably be the best roguelike if the devs werent so incompetent.
Rogue.
My favorite video game used to be poschengband, but the guy decided to make the game more tedious and cut out a ton of content for some reason and then disappeared off the face of the planet.
why are there no tilesets for rogue?
>dcss
>play garg
>ez game
>stop playing garg
>play another race
>they fricking suck
>go back to playing garg
Why the frick is permanent flight so rare? Shoals is fricking AIDs without permanent flight, but the only worthwhile melee race that gets it is garg. Completely at the mercy of RNG flight boots/rings if you decide to play MiBe or orc. The only non-garg melee race I've fun with was demonspawn, and that's mostly for +3 invocations with Yred.
The most fun race is objectively naga, and if you disagree, you are playing the game wrong.
Play bcrawl or bcadrencrawl homosexual
>bcadrencrawl
I'm interested, what does it change? The github page has 0 information
Completely overhauled dungeon floors; overhauled gods, trolls/centaurs/mummies/draconians/demonspawn as a class choice, to mix with your other race. dual wielding.
no identifying items; cursed items instead (that have a negative effect instead of being unequipable)
Mounts. as spells or godly summons
Yred lets you have an army of abominations depending on invoc level;Tiamat and friend boost you as a draconian (even mixed ones)
Also ranged combat is overhauled, you do less damage in melee; but more damage if its further away, no clue how it works
amulets of chaos make your spells chaotic (random damage types, random effects)
>Mounts
>random damage types, random effects
Sounds kino; ludo, even
Does the game still not have an ending? Last time I tried it I didn't see the point
>do you control a single character from a third person perspective?
>no
>
>Do you control a character from this specific kind of third person perspective?
???
yep, instant midwit garbage
If you don't dig Progressive Metal with all manner of weird shit packed in, you can get the frick out of my face. It's like people being purists for hard rock and getting offended by jazzy chords or a horn section.
Are arguments about genres the most pathetic Vidya takes?
Yes.
what are some roguelikes of a more open world sandbox open-ended type, kinda like caves of qud, elona, dwarf fortress or cataclysm dark days ahead? some shit i can spend hundreds of hours in a single run/save
You named them.
But there's a select couple of other games like ADOM that are like that.
If your autism is at "barely socially functional" tier, I recommend UnReal World as well.
real man play only REAL ROGULIKES™
My favourite game is Nethack I guess it's not.
Should I wait for caves of qud 1.0?
There’s a lot of content in already and tons of dumb shit to do. If you’ve never played before, you’ll have to worry about getting that far, but even as is, I come back every year to go through the game with new dumb builds to see what they added.
I haven’t finished this last update they just put out, but last year, it ended with you making a mecha and going into this new area that replaced the placeholder deathlands. Making a giant robot felt like a pretty satisfying way to end the game for me.
Thank crist up in heaven
What a useless chart
Is there a bigger autism goldmine than the roguelike debate