Simply, yes. There's little reason to spend so much in a 'stick' that just outputs one of 8 directions with a particular feel in order to do fighting game motion inputs slightly more smoothly.
It's amazing that it's still only barely viable to buy analog sticks which give accurate readings with minimal drift, but people do crazy shit for basic digital devices.
for that much you could almost build two completely serviceable controllers with seimitsusanwagaymerfinger etc kek
its a rabbit-hole of diminishing returns
once you pass the threshold everything kinda becomes subjective
i've never spent more than 60$ on a stick
& i have like 9 arcade cabinets
No one who competes seriously buys that stuff.
Look at tournament winners and they have basic off the shelf sticks, or if they are modded it is with the standard sanwa JLF and buttons.
Occasionally in some games you'll see a LS-32 or one of the cheaper Korean levers.
A little bit, yes, depends on how far into the rabbit hole you wanna fall I guess. I've gutted an old ass PS1 stick and adapted it to modern standards for probably around a hundred and fifty bucks total, but this included the old stick itself and I had fun modding it. Don't use it much, other than Tekken and emulated Neo Geo games, but it's fun. I've been tempted to make a custom hitbox, but that would probably end up being at least another hundred bucks if not more and I've got more important stuff to spend money on right now, so it'll have to wait. I did hear that supposedly the Chink premade hitboxes from AliExpress aren't terrible and that would be cheaper, but tinkering with this shit is half the magic.
>Are arcade stick users completely insane?
No. Insane would be confusing all the millions of arcade stick users with people who buy a specialty product. You'd have to be not only insane but very stupid to do that. Who where did that OP?
I bought a cheap arcade stick like 10 years ago for $40. Got some nice buttons for $6 and I was cruising. Nowadays boxes without sticks and just buttons are $200? Where does the money go?
They're objectively better than sticks because you can achieve the same result with significantly less motion. Buttons are also more durable than levers.
What would be cringe is a beginner taking up stick at this point in time.
It would be like a new golfer showing up with persimmon woods and a blade putter.
That would incredibly based.
BTW they had to change the rules of golf again recently because the ridiculous clubs they have now were letting the players hit the ball so far it was invalidating the size of many courses. They changed the ball so it would not fly as well.
>it seems impossible to use a keyboard for fighting games
For Soulcalibur games I just map movement to the arrows keys, A to Z, B to X, K to Space and G to Left Shift. Then I put my ring finger and little finger on Left Shift, middle finger on Z, index finger on X and thumb on Space. It's superior to a console controller because I can press any combination of H, V, K and G at the same time.
It's all about preference and muscle memory. Same reason why pads are just as viable as boxes. If you can reliably hit the inputs on a dpad and face buttons then there isn't much benefit to using a stick or hitbox.
There's a lot of moronly priced shit in the arcade stick community.
You had pic related charging $100 for 3d printed shit buttons before getting called out and now slashed the price in half.
Placebo effect.
The keyswitch is literally exactly the same.
If they feel mushy to you then so do all Seimitsu arcade buttons (which are popular due to *not* feeling mushy)
I just got a new HORI for the first time since they were still SAs and while I saw people b***h about Hayabusa buttons over vague feel reasons nobody ever got across just how fricking cheapo this textured plastic they're made out of seems. Nice to slide because of the profile but who the frick does that anymore.
Buttons are more than the switch, how much flex or wobble it has in both the body and plunger affect a lot.
>how much flex or wobble it has in both the body and plunger affect a lot.
The HORI button body and plunger are nearly identical in size and shape to the Seimitsu and Sanwa buttons.
It pretty much does.
They are within less than 1mm tolerance in all directions and are made of the same injection molded plastic. Hold up a Seimitsu PS-14-K, a Sanwa OBSF-30, and HORI stock button and they are nearly identical.
And when I say nearly mean like 99%. It's just not going to make a difference.
The single biggest thing that makes the difference in a button is the switch, followed by the profile of the top of the button body.
PS-14-G and PS-14-GN have very different top profiles so they feel slightly different.
One could say the same for Hori Hayabusa, goldfinger, and gravity buttons. All different in look and feel.
But among those I just listed (PS-14-K, OBSF-30 and Hori stock) the difference is miniscule. Maybe the Hori stock buttons plunger sits 1mm higher above the body than with the OBSF-30. It seems equal with PS-14-K (and PS-14-GN that uses the MM9-4 switch which has identical performance to MM9-3).
By the way: Qanba Stock buttons and Mayflash stock buttons also use the MM9-3 style of switches (kwanda clones) and have bodies extremely close to the PS-14-K and OBSF-30. With those the Mayflash plunger is about 1mm lower than the Hori stock. Mayflash button bodies are basically 1:1 clones of OBSF-30, but use a different stock switch. Put a Sanwa SW-68 in a Mayflash body and it feels exactly identical to a real OBSF-30 (which makes upgrading a Mayflash stick a little bit cheaper). I don't have a Qanba button laying around to compare but I bet the non-LED ones are also 1:1 copies of OBSF-30.
The switch is what determines the operating force, engage distance, bounce, and return times. That's what really matters.
They work nice they just have a weird ass look and touch feel. Like everyone just talks about them being "matte" which made me think it would be just a a dull finish not the kind of texture molded plastic used on grip surfaces like the back of a Saturn controller. They also wobble an absolute shit ton which feels and sounds cheap. I can push one side down entirely without the other hardly even moving like the caps are just floating on top of the switch while Sanwa's go down very straight. But on the other hand that might actually make them a bit quieter because the entire button isn't slamming down and is probably part of why they're so easy to button slide. Well it's probably all related to the low profile housing having less contact area and internal volume.
Surprisingly positive feeling about the stick as well considering I use a bloody LS-56, I think I might like it more than a JLF at least. Although it's also new and my JLFs are not.
Yeah they kind of float and being able to push one side down is kind of a love or hate thing versus the whole cap going down on the Sanwa. The stick's pretty good too, although I prefer the original pre-Omron version with Thai switches. Kowal oversized actuator + octogate is a really easy mod option to get closer to a Seimitsu levered switch feel. LS-56 is great, just a bit rough on the old man wrists for extended play.
Also, and this is something I don't really ever see mentioned so I don't know if it's just me hallucinating, the different colored Hayabusa buttons feel slightly different.
So it would be interesting if I had a PS-15 to take apart too because the Hayabusa seems to be pretty much a knockoff in terms of structure, but looking at an OBSF-30, an OBSFE-30 and a Hayabusa
OBSF-30: plunger floats over the switch, guides by the housing walls, primarily bottoms on the housing
OBSFE-30: plunger friction mounted to the switch, guides by the housing walls, primarily bottoms on the switch
Hayabusa: plunger floats over the switch, guides by a combination of the switch and two tabs, primarily bottoms on the housing
Basically the rubbery plastic on the OBSFE is mostly used to clamp on to the switch, and to soften the impact on the button walls, more than to dampen the impact at the bottom like the foam pads in the OBSFS. To do that it sits slightly higher but it still bottoms lower than an OBSFS. It has no tabs on the plunger to hold it at topout because it works more like a mechanical keycap where you could just pull it off. But the more interesting thing about the Hayabusa is most of the plunger actually never touches the walls at all and you can see through the button entirely between the rim and plunger. Presumably that choice is because the button is extremely low profile so it doesn't have much surface area on the walls to begin with, but it wobbles so much because the tabs have a really wide opening in the housing, so much they do nothing at the top of the travel where they allow more movement than the switch. In any event HORI is using maybe as little as like half as much plastic for the whole button.
Beyond that they have a different force ramp for whatever reason. Haybusa is lower resistance up top but goes up to higher resistance earlier and seem even at the bottom. Arguably gives them a little more feel but we aren't talking about a lot of resistance in general. Once again wish I had a PS-15 to compare.
Looking around the MM9s Seimitsu uses are indeed a stepped resistance switch, which is a detail that's kind of hard to gleam the specifics of from the vague way people describe arcade buttons. So the more I mess around with pressing Hayabusas and Sanwas together to estimate the force the more the Hayabusa seems to be a modified PS-15 clone with a proprietary switch, and remolded upper surface, which also makes it seem like the Kuro was just an updated version of the old stock buttons with the new switch (they even kept the same complaint about getting stuck).
The claim the Hayabusa is shorter travel or activation than Sanwa pops up everywhere including this thread but without actual numbers to back it up I wonder if any of that is true or just based on the lighter initial force from people used to Sanwas.
Not that I can find. The MM9s also have wonky published data anyways and I could only find better information because of keyboard nerds (there's another graph like this on a Japanese page about the OG HORI Fighting Stick for SNES that uses the plate mount MM9-1 and MM9-2 though but it has the step at more like 1.5mm rather than 1.3mm, and another wiki has the activation point at 1.41mm)
Hayabusa definitely seems like this if you assume SW-68s are linear and their 55g activation and 81g bottom out numbers are right though.
I think I have but lost track of the link. There's parts that I've always found kind of weird to understand and while actually now that I have the graph that 55g initial force number for the MM9 finally makes sense it blows up my current thought process to some extent. I'm kind of rambling into the void to try to see if it generates information but maybe I'm just completely fricking wrong.
The part I really don't get is when they measure the actuation and stroke on different buttons with the same switch and the post-activation travel isn't the same on all of them, I just end up questioning the precision involved at that point.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Actually wait I guess I'm moronic that would change depending on when the plunger bottoms on the housing actually. That actually does explain why the OBSFEs bump feels higher than the normal OBSF because it bottoms out the switch instead of just smashing plunger to housing.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>the post-activation travel isn't the same on all of them,
That would be due to the overhang of the plunger when fitted to the switch. On most Japanese buttons the bottom of the plunger hits the bottom of the button body before the key switch bottoms out.
Wasted a lot of money for different seimitsu models just to find what best suite for me. Geting back to jlf anyway, and more of this i playing on pad now just because im to lazy to pick up my stick on knees.
I just spent $150 on metal N64 stick parts so that I can have a controller where the stick never loses its boner big time. I don't know what came over me. I probably should I have just got cheap plastic parts, but the autism got the best of me in pursuit of a "final solution" to the shit design flaw
Not really, if he loves the shit out of his Nintendo 64 I don't blame him. Used to own the console back in the day, every single pad (or rather, the joysticks on it) would crap out eventually. Could extend the life of 'em a bit with some ghetto rigging and vaseline/coconut oil, but eventually they will shit the bed beyond the point of repair. So anon replacing everything with metal parts is equal parts smart and moronic. Smart, because it just werks, moronic because it's fricking expensive and IMHO not worth the effort. However tendies are known to pay insane amounts of money for their bing bing wahoo fix and they're big on nostalgia, so if he ever gets bored of it, he can flip it easily. Maybe even make money if he sits on it long enough.
How the frick is paying money for an analog stick to work in a precise way cringe, but spending hundreds on super custom sticks that only output 8 directions is something you can go on about for hundreds of posts?
I recorded the given controller of some high level Super Street Fighter II Turbo players.
None as far as I could tell use any fancy lever that isn't a JLF, LS-32, or Hayabusa.
Several players their stick bone stock with no mods.
If there is any pattern I've noticed it's that the players who win tournaments or place highly do not have custom artwork on their stick, a sign of where their priorities lie as a player.
For what it's worth, Victrix, MAS and some of the Qanba models are pretty impractical for custom art unless it's one of those custom etched Victrix from an event, on pretty much every Hori there but maybe a HRAP N it's just bad because it won't sit flush (I tried it on a V3 because the stock sticker was fricked but it was terrible and I ended up just vinyl wrapping the panel later). Most of those people also own a pile of sticks anyways so they're not going to have the same attachment.
Most of those players are not sponsored.
ST is a very small community that doesn't have much of anything like that.
While ST is not a pro esports community there's certainly a few in there that get free shit as internet influencers or just from connections.
The only one I recognize in that list who is actually corporate sponsored is Onuki (misspelled as Ohnuki).
Alex Valle is sort of sponsored in the sense he's representing his own organization he founded.
The same could be said for Jebailey.
I 100% know Jebailey gets free stuff to shill, both somewhat obviously at his tournaments but also on his video channels.
I don't know the whole thing rubs me slightly wrong for whatever reason. The stereotype of the beginner with fancy expensive equipment exists across all hobbies for a good reason and god knows searching for information about anything exposes me to tons of redditors that have put $500 into their first stick they haven't played a game with yet (well it's less brain melting than r/simracing anyways), but I think the idea that you need to have a disintegrating TE with mismatched buttons to be a serious player is a bit too tryhard. It's the same sort of "well I win on a 20 year old Dell pack in keyboard" argument you see people use against arcade sticks in general. I'd say the reality is the players grinding hard beat the shit out of their equipment and nobody is paying them to make their shit look good except Red Bull because fighting game sponsorships are pretty half assed at the best of times and people are barely ever going to see it so it's just going to be a waste for them. For the other 99.9% of arcade stick owners that will probably never wear out a Sanwa button in their life it's not a fair comparison.
It's a mod to make a small stick like the F300 (which is smaller than the F500) fit on a person's lap better.
And I don't see any reason why it would not work.
So when the advertising basically just points out that V shape cam as the difference from a JLF? It's because that is most of the difference, it's just like a JLF with less friction. Which while it makes it take almost certainly the 5-15% less input force they claim, also means it has less damping when it comes to centering oscillations. In the past people have complained about getting opposite inputs on snap back because of that but works on my machine.
Otherwise it has marginally shorter engage, which I wonder if is what the JLX's larger actuator is like.
Sort of the deal with Hayabusa parts in general is slightly less force and travel than Sanwa at the cost of feeling less solid. Supposedly it's what Sako liked and when this stuff came out over a decade ago that kind of esports gimmick seemed to make sense to differentiate the product but arcade sticks turned out to be more of a luxury market where people want stuff that feels beefy and expensive like OP, more like the heavy mouse trend 10-15 years ago rather than the current micro-mouse jerkoff. Hori struggles with that in general because they tend to make fairly light easy to handle cases for the Japanese market while most westerners want their stick to be 20lbs of pussy and ass
Anybody know if you can make a custom cable to connect the brook retro board to a genesis and neo geo? Kinda irritates me that those are the only ones it doesn't support.
Sure. I can make all kinds of crazy moronic shit. I won't make those, but I can. But I do seem to recall some fricktard actually built a cable that used another AVR to convert whatever shit they stuffed down the RJ45 to a neo geo connector.
But for practical purposes, no. The tards basically wiener blocked themselves by going with a connector that doesn't have enough pins. Then again, who is the tard. The tard who makes garbage or the tard that pays for that garbage?
Of course not. If a system needs 9 wires and you only have 8 you can just hook up only 8 and it'll work fine anyway magically. lmao.
>neo geo
Since the Neo Geo controller contains no logic all you have to do is connect the switches of the joystick and buttons to the pins of a DB15 connector.
To do that with the brook retro board you'd run extra wires from each button and the joystick to your Neo Geo cable. This could possibly require the use of diodes to make sure the brook retro PCB isn't damaged when plugging the Neo Geo cable into a Neo Geo.
This is messy, and not worth bothering with imo.
Instead you can purchase an Undamned USB Decoder and plug the Brook Retro Board into the decoder which will translate the Brook PCB's USB signal into raw input signal the Neo Geo can understand. This process takes about 1ms which is about 1/16th of a frame. From a real world perspective that is "zero lag".
Or you could just not use moronic meme garbage and avoid the problem all together.
Because this is a discussion board and you made the accusation. Either defend it via discussion or stop posting.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Ignore him.
He does this in any thread about arcade subjects where any anon asks a question and someone gives a reply.
The troll then comes along and makes a vague shitpost then never backs up any of his views. Just keeps saying moron and zoomer alternatively for the rest of the threads.
3 months ago
Anonymous
This is an image board and throwing a tantrum any time someone says something you don't like doesn't entitle to you to anything. All you'll get for that is mockery. scd
>neo geo
Since the Neo Geo controller contains no logic all you have to do is connect the switches of the joystick and buttons to the pins of a DB15 connector.
To do that with the brook retro board you'd run extra wires from each button and the joystick to your Neo Geo cable. This could possibly require the use of diodes to make sure the brook retro PCB isn't damaged when plugging the Neo Geo cable into a Neo Geo.
This is messy, and not worth bothering with imo.
Instead you can purchase an Undamned USB Decoder and plug the Brook Retro Board into the decoder which will translate the Brook PCB's USB signal into raw input signal the Neo Geo can understand. This process takes about 1ms which is about 1/16th of a frame. From a real world perspective that is "zero lag".
So it would be interesting if I had a PS-15 to take apart too because the Hayabusa seems to be pretty much a knockoff in terms of structure, but looking at an OBSF-30, an OBSFE-30 and a Hayabusa
OBSF-30: plunger floats over the switch, guides by the housing walls, primarily bottoms on the housing
OBSFE-30: plunger friction mounted to the switch, guides by the housing walls, primarily bottoms on the switch
Hayabusa: plunger floats over the switch, guides by a combination of the switch and two tabs, primarily bottoms on the housing
Basically the rubbery plastic on the OBSFE is mostly used to clamp on to the switch, and to soften the impact on the button walls, more than to dampen the impact at the bottom like the foam pads in the OBSFS. To do that it sits slightly higher but it still bottoms lower than an OBSFS. It has no tabs on the plunger to hold it at topout because it works more like a mechanical keycap where you could just pull it off. But the more interesting thing about the Hayabusa is most of the plunger actually never touches the walls at all and you can see through the button entirely between the rim and plunger. Presumably that choice is because the button is extremely low profile so it doesn't have much surface area on the walls to begin with, but it wobbles so much because the tabs have a really wide opening in the housing, so much they do nothing at the top of the travel where they allow more movement than the switch. In any event Hori is using maybe as little as like half as much plastic for the whole button.
Beyond that they have a different force ramp for whatever reason. Haybusa is lower resistance up top but goes up to higher resistance earlier and seem even at the bottom. Arguably gives them a little more feel but we aren't talking about a lot of resistance in general. Once again wish I had a PS-15 to compare.
Mind you I forgot what I already knew which is the SW-68 has a step in it too, just less aggressive. So that's why if you push them together, the Hayabusa moves, then the Sanwa, then the Hayabusa again when the Sanwa gets to the bottom. I assume the Sanwa looks sort of like this which is why I guess the Hori switch has to be very similar to the MM9-3.
Oddly that probably lends itself to the various different interpretations you get of button differences depending which way and how hard you press. The harder step can feel stiffer or clickier, or if you smash through that part of the stroke but not all the way the stronger spring at the bottom can feel "mushy" compared to hard bottoming. I think the Hayabusa tends to get the reputation of a light twitchy button because the wobbly low profile design means you get very little travel or resistance if you press off center.
Are there any serious players who don't bottom out the switch with excessive force every time they press a button anyway?
Every footage I've ever seen of high level players has them smashing buttons with extreme prejudice.
One of the really young Japanese pro players whose name I forget that never went through arcades has this uncomfortable looking spread hand style where he can't possibly be pressing buttons hard.
One of the really young Japanese pro players whose name I forget that never went through arcades has this uncomfortable looking spread hand style where he can't possibly be pressing buttons hard.
Actually I was wrong even, I was thinking of Ryusei who was a BlazBlue player before SFV
#t=12m25s
From others I've seen everyone bottoms buttons for sure, but there's a mix of some that hit everything hard and others that will push fairly soft on smaller inputs and then start hitting buttons harder when they need to press buttons far apart quickly or something.
Considering the difference between a golden lever and a JLF is like $110 and the difference between an 8 button set of HBSFs and OBSFs is around $30 in Japan (and I see a lot them with only 6 or 7) it's not quite on the same level. But even there the price and garbage distribution is enough of an issue they've been trying Gravity KS instead a lot (those have an issue with false inputs though). Well keep in mind one of the reasons Japanese swap buttons a lot is because they live in thin walled apartments and are dealing with noise so they're looking for quiet buttons without too much tradeoff.
Speaking of which the prototype Seimitsu silent button they previewed 3 years ago is so far vaporware and they've instead releasing their own MX switch button, which is a shame because the two piece design that only had the elastomer part on the bottom instead of for the whole plunger seemed like it wouldn't have the issues the OBSFE does with the rubbery button caps for me.
This post got me looking up videos of players and looking at their hands. And I noticed this:
?t=71
Watch Tomo's hands during the match. He's using all 8 buttons on his controller. For a six button game without a macro function. It looks like he has duplicated his HP and HK buttons so he can hit them with his pinky finger, possibly making the juice kicks he practices during the button check a bit easier for himself. It lets him do a piano of 4 instead of 3.
This is against tournament rules.
The Evo controller rules kind of suck so even now duplicate buttons are allowed, even that ridiculous Potemkin pizza box is Evo legal to this day and they explicitly allow Hitbox CrossUps and Gafroboxes. Back in 2018 there was pretty much nothing but "no macros and no turbo lol"
For one, Capcom Pro Tour doesn't allow duplicate buttons, which prevents this kind of utter madness. Secondly ST is to this day primarily an arcade game with only 6 buttons physically available.
For all the efforts Capcom did to neutralize leverless cheats though, they went and allowed 11 action buttons instead of the usual 8 so many Japanese SF6 players went and drilled 2 or 3 extra holes in their stick and they were quickly added to Chinese leverless offerings.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Just looking at that thing gives me a headache.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>they went and allowed 11 action buttons
Which leads to controllers like this winning world championships.
3 months ago
Anonymous
That one is also only Evo (and Arc World Tour but it's not winning that lmao) legal. Shitbox is pretty evasive about it emphasizing "it's the analog stick", but it's just a JLF and CPT requires duplicate directional inputs to have one be mechanically analog (aka be a normal ass controller) But yeah the new Arc games also allow mapping a shitload of buttons, Granblue Rising is just lucky there's only 8 inputs worth using anyways but it used to be possible to play optimally on 6 in the original GBVS.
It's goofy because this grew out of a trend to make 3 or 4 button games but then they started macro'ing everything because those 3 or 4 button games inevitably had multi-button combinations and just grew into everything being an 8+ button game.
Generally, the only macros which are allowed in tournaments are those which the game lets you set within the in-game options menu.
SSF2X has no such function. One could argue that the console releases versions of this game had that feature, but it's a weak argument.
SSF2X is a game which is still played with the idea that players should try to adhere to the arcade standard.
In recent years western tournaments have started using cabinets for the game again due to this preference among the majority of players.
Now, a duplicate button isn't exactly a macro by definition, but it's function is attempting to do the same thing: make your inputs easier than using the standard minimum button set.
Having duplicate buttons helps with pianoing as mentioned. It would also help with hitting PPP and KKK moves. Things it would affect
Zangief: Spinning Lariat
Claw: Backflip
T. Hawk: Condor Dive
Boxer: Turn Punch
Dhalsim: Teleport
Honda: Hundred Hand Slap
Chun-li: Lightning Legs Kick
Blanka: Electricity
All Characters: mashing in/out of throws.
It's a small edge, but one which should be banned because there's no real downside to using it. Which means that if you want to be competitive in SSF2X you need an 8 button controller.
But why stop there? Boxer in particular would probably benefit from a 12 button controller to allow unusual hand positions while still charging turn punch. Which would make a character who is already top tier nearly unstoppable.
Are you sure the extra buttons aren't just unbound and he's hitting them to fake out his opponent by seeing if they'll react to the button noise? Either way it is something that would normally be infeasible on an actual cabinet so I'd have to agree with
>This is against tournament rules.
Not according to the current Evo tournament rules.
https://www.evo.gg/rules
There are a lot of things which are forbidden, but duplicating buttons is not one of them.
I am 99% sure it was not against the rules in 2018 either.
It *should* be against the rules, especially in a game like ST that is played with the spirit of sticking to the arcade standard.
So just trying to wrap my head around some things: OBSFs if released slowly top out on the switch. But if you let them snap back then they pop up hard, the plunger tries to shoot off the switch stem, and you get a bunch of extra noise from the tabs hitting the housing, as well as a bit of extra unsprung travel on the next press from the button floating up. OBSFEs don't do that because they're fully attached to the stem. The way Hayabusa delivers the 0.3mm shorter activation than Kuros they advertise is by preloading the switch so it always tops out on the tabs.
Which is how I realized I need to actually take the switch out to compare them, and it then turns out that the Hori switch seems damn near identical to an SW-68 in characteristics on its own, and a Hayabusa with an SW-68 in it feels at least 95% the same as a stock Hayabusa. It's just that preload that shifts the force curve earlier in the stroke making it seem like a stiffer button.
There's also the question of button type.
What stops me from putting two of these square buttons right next to each other separated off from my standard set of 6? Now I can press them at the same time with a single finger. Especially my thumb. Or my palm. It's not a macro tho. It's two separate buttons 😉
Fighting games are in a very funny place of there never having been enough at stake for people to exploit how weak the rules and officiating are, plus until recently arcade cultivated skill outshone any sort of console cheats people had anyways. It's actually pretty funny how hard people shill the classic hitbox as some sort of optimal fighting game controller when it's barely past a proof of concept design wise.
Simply, yes. There's little reason to spend so much in a 'stick' that just outputs one of 8 directions with a particular feel in order to do fighting game motion inputs slightly more smoothly.
It's amazing that it's still only barely viable to buy analog sticks which give accurate readings with minimal drift, but people do crazy shit for basic digital devices.
for sure. That's why you're still using a ball mouse too, senpai.
This analogy doesn't work because there are more pad players than ever and several that have even won fgc super majors.
and all of them are gay
Pads are ass
for that much you could almost build two completely serviceable controllers with seimitsusanwagaymerfinger etc kek
its a rabbit-hole of diminishing returns
once you pass the threshold everything kinda becomes subjective
i've never spent more than 60$ on a stick
& i have like 9 arcade cabinets
No one who competes seriously buys that stuff.
Look at tournament winners and they have basic off the shelf sticks, or if they are modded it is with the standard sanwa JLF and buttons.
Occasionally in some games you'll see a LS-32 or one of the cheaper Korean levers.
A little bit, yes, depends on how far into the rabbit hole you wanna fall I guess. I've gutted an old ass PS1 stick and adapted it to modern standards for probably around a hundred and fifty bucks total, but this included the old stick itself and I had fun modding it. Don't use it much, other than Tekken and emulated Neo Geo games, but it's fun. I've been tempted to make a custom hitbox, but that would probably end up being at least another hundred bucks if not more and I've got more important stuff to spend money on right now, so it'll have to wait. I did hear that supposedly the Chink premade hitboxes from AliExpress aren't terrible and that would be cheaper, but tinkering with this shit is half the magic.
>Are arcade stick users completely insane?
No. Insane would be confusing all the millions of arcade stick users with people who buy a specialty product. You'd have to be not only insane but very stupid to do that. Who where did that OP?
I bought a cheap arcade stick like 10 years ago for $40. Got some nice buttons for $6 and I was cruising. Nowadays boxes without sticks and just buttons are $200? Where does the money go?
havent hitboxes obsoleted sticks? arent you losing speed by having to move a stick instead of instantly hitting buttons?
And stickgays made fun of keyboard players for decades
hitboxes are cringe af
I hit your mom's hit box with my chode last night
i hit your dog with my fist last night
They're objectively better than sticks because you can achieve the same result with significantly less motion. Buttons are also more durable than levers.
They are still cringe.
What would be cringe is a beginner taking up stick at this point in time.
It would be like a new golfer showing up with persimmon woods and a blade putter.
That would incredibly based.
BTW they had to change the rules of golf again recently because the ridiculous clubs they have now were letting the players hit the ball so far it was invalidating the size of many courses. They changed the ball so it would not fly as well.
>buttons are more durable than levers
Not Sanwa buttons that's for sure
Hitboxes are soulless and cheating.
just play with keyboard weirdo
i dont even have big hands and it seems impossible to use a keyboard for fighting games
>it seems impossible to use a keyboard for fighting games
For Soulcalibur games I just map movement to the arrows keys, A to Z, B to X, K to Space and G to Left Shift. Then I put my ring finger and little finger on Left Shift, middle finger on Z, index finger on X and thumb on Space. It's superior to a console controller because I can press any combination of H, V, K and G at the same time.
*any combination of A, B, K and G at the same time.
It's all about preference and muscle memory. Same reason why pads are just as viable as boxes. If you can reliably hit the inputs on a dpad and face buttons then there isn't much benefit to using a stick or hitbox.
>hitbox
you didn't beat the game
How long until we have neuralink mental inputs? I don’t even want to move my fingers.
>hitboxes
You want to destroy you hands?
Its just inflation
There's a lot of moronly priced shit in the arcade stick community.
You had pic related charging $100 for 3d printed shit buttons before getting called out and now slashed the price in half.
Don't encourage moronic poorgays who want meme garbage to continue to cry about prices thinking it will get them anywhere.
normies have ruined everything.
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE. You probably think P2W is an actual game mechanic
Getting poorgays to cry is an actual game mechanic
They don't care what you do
That isn't even half of what a good flight stick would cost.
$130 is not THAT unreasonable for a high quality vibrator
I have more information if anyone is interested.
HORI buttons feel mushy
Placebo effect.
The keyswitch is literally exactly the same.
If they feel mushy to you then so do all Seimitsu arcade buttons (which are popular due to *not* feeling mushy)
I just got a new HORI for the first time since they were still SAs and while I saw people b***h about Hayabusa buttons over vague feel reasons nobody ever got across just how fricking cheapo this textured plastic they're made out of seems. Nice to slide because of the profile but who the frick does that anymore.
Buttons are more than the switch, how much flex or wobble it has in both the body and plunger affect a lot.
>how much flex or wobble it has in both the body and plunger affect a lot.
The HORI button body and plunger are nearly identical in size and shape to the Seimitsu and Sanwa buttons.
That doesn't make them identical in material.
It pretty much does.
They are within less than 1mm tolerance in all directions and are made of the same injection molded plastic. Hold up a Seimitsu PS-14-K, a Sanwa OBSF-30, and HORI stock button and they are nearly identical.
And when I say nearly mean like 99%. It's just not going to make a difference.
The single biggest thing that makes the difference in a button is the switch, followed by the profile of the top of the button body.
PS-14-G and PS-14-GN have very different top profiles so they feel slightly different.
One could say the same for Hori Hayabusa, goldfinger, and gravity buttons. All different in look and feel.
But among those I just listed (PS-14-K, OBSF-30 and Hori stock) the difference is miniscule. Maybe the Hori stock buttons plunger sits 1mm higher above the body than with the OBSF-30. It seems equal with PS-14-K (and PS-14-GN that uses the MM9-4 switch which has identical performance to MM9-3).
By the way: Qanba Stock buttons and Mayflash stock buttons also use the MM9-3 style of switches (kwanda clones) and have bodies extremely close to the PS-14-K and OBSF-30. With those the Mayflash plunger is about 1mm lower than the Hori stock. Mayflash button bodies are basically 1:1 clones of OBSF-30, but use a different stock switch. Put a Sanwa SW-68 in a Mayflash body and it feels exactly identical to a real OBSF-30 (which makes upgrading a Mayflash stick a little bit cheaper). I don't have a Qanba button laying around to compare but I bet the non-LED ones are also 1:1 copies of OBSF-30.
The switch is what determines the operating force, engage distance, bounce, and return times. That's what really matters.
Hayabusas last longer, have a shorter actuation distance, and require less force to actuate than Sanwas.
They work nice they just have a weird ass look and touch feel. Like everyone just talks about them being "matte" which made me think it would be just a a dull finish not the kind of texture molded plastic used on grip surfaces like the back of a Saturn controller. They also wobble an absolute shit ton which feels and sounds cheap. I can push one side down entirely without the other hardly even moving like the caps are just floating on top of the switch while Sanwa's go down very straight. But on the other hand that might actually make them a bit quieter because the entire button isn't slamming down and is probably part of why they're so easy to button slide. Well it's probably all related to the low profile housing having less contact area and internal volume.
Surprisingly positive feeling about the stick as well considering I use a bloody LS-56, I think I might like it more than a JLF at least. Although it's also new and my JLFs are not.
Yeah they kind of float and being able to push one side down is kind of a love or hate thing versus the whole cap going down on the Sanwa. The stick's pretty good too, although I prefer the original pre-Omron version with Thai switches. Kowal oversized actuator + octogate is a really easy mod option to get closer to a Seimitsu levered switch feel. LS-56 is great, just a bit rough on the old man wrists for extended play.
Also, and this is something I don't really ever see mentioned so I don't know if it's just me hallucinating, the different colored Hayabusa buttons feel slightly different.
Looking around the MM9s Seimitsu uses are indeed a stepped resistance switch, which is a detail that's kind of hard to gleam the specifics of from the vague way people describe arcade buttons. So the more I mess around with pressing Hayabusas and Sanwas together to estimate the force the more the Hayabusa seems to be a modified PS-15 clone with a proprietary switch, and remolded upper surface, which also makes it seem like the Kuro was just an updated version of the old stock buttons with the new switch (they even kept the same complaint about getting stuck).
The claim the Hayabusa is shorter travel or activation than Sanwa pops up everywhere including this thread but without actual numbers to back it up I wonder if any of that is true or just based on the lighter initial force from people used to Sanwas.
Is the operating force of the Hayabusa button not published somewhere?
Not that I can find. The MM9s also have wonky published data anyways and I could only find better information because of keyboard nerds (there's another graph like this on a Japanese page about the OG HORI Fighting Stick for SNES that uses the plate mount MM9-1 and MM9-2 though but it has the step at more like 1.5mm rather than 1.3mm, and another wiki has the activation point at 1.41mm)
Hayabusa definitely seems like this if you assume SW-68s are linear and their 55g activation and 81g bottom out numbers are right though.
Have you seen this page?
http://erwin1.blog64.fc2.com/blog-entry-3.html
I think I have but lost track of the link. There's parts that I've always found kind of weird to understand and while actually now that I have the graph that 55g initial force number for the MM9 finally makes sense it blows up my current thought process to some extent. I'm kind of rambling into the void to try to see if it generates information but maybe I'm just completely fricking wrong.
The part I really don't get is when they measure the actuation and stroke on different buttons with the same switch and the post-activation travel isn't the same on all of them, I just end up questioning the precision involved at that point.
Actually wait I guess I'm moronic that would change depending on when the plunger bottoms on the housing actually. That actually does explain why the OBSFEs bump feels higher than the normal OBSF because it bottoms out the switch instead of just smashing plunger to housing.
>the post-activation travel isn't the same on all of them,
That would be due to the overhang of the plunger when fitted to the switch. On most Japanese buttons the bottom of the plunger hits the bottom of the button body before the key switch bottoms out.
Stickwagglers on suicide watch
>homobox
this looks like a butt plug
>looks like
Lol
You don't necessarily want a completely smooth lever. Optical levers are completely smooth and some players complain they have no feedback.
>Optical levers
Those still exist?
Yes.
What a wastrel.
>smoothness of the lever
>in a game which mostly uses double tapping motions
I wanna practice using a stick I just bought. What are the best games to practice with using a stick on retroarch?
Any decent shootemp because those require all directions regularly.
VS. Super Mario Bros.
>VS. Super Mario Bros.
eww
Pac-Man
Wasted a lot of money for different seimitsu models just to find what best suite for me. Geting back to jlf anyway, and more of this i playing on pad now just because im to lazy to pick up my stick on knees.
Nobi is my favorite Seimitsu model but they're hard to justify with that price. Non-rotating shaft is pretty great though.
I'd like to try a SELS-70X but for the price of like two LS-56s I'm not.
>SELS-70X
Damn it's another no-rotation stick? Anon I'm too poor to know about this, take it back!
Here is a comparison of the profile of Seimitsu PS-14-K vs HORI stock buttons.
These buttons use the exact same switch.
I just spent $150 on metal N64 stick parts so that I can have a controller where the stick never loses its boner big time. I don't know what came over me. I probably should I have just got cheap plastic parts, but the autism got the best of me in pursuit of a "final solution" to the shit design flaw
Everything you wrote in this post is cringe as frick. Consult a psychiatrist ASAP.
Not really, if he loves the shit out of his Nintendo 64 I don't blame him. Used to own the console back in the day, every single pad (or rather, the joysticks on it) would crap out eventually. Could extend the life of 'em a bit with some ghetto rigging and vaseline/coconut oil, but eventually they will shit the bed beyond the point of repair. So anon replacing everything with metal parts is equal parts smart and moronic. Smart, because it just werks, moronic because it's fricking expensive and IMHO not worth the effort. However tendies are known to pay insane amounts of money for their bing bing wahoo fix and they're big on nostalgia, so if he ever gets bored of it, he can flip it easily. Maybe even make money if he sits on it long enough.
>it's fricking expensive
It's never too expensive to play Sin & Punishment the proper way.
How the frick is paying money for an analog stick to work in a precise way cringe, but spending hundreds on super custom sticks that only output 8 directions is something you can go on about for hundreds of posts?
Doing what now
I recorded the given controller of some high level Super Street Fighter II Turbo players.
None as far as I could tell use any fancy lever that isn't a JLF, LS-32, or Hayabusa.
Several players their stick bone stock with no mods.
If there is any pattern I've noticed it's that the players who win tournaments or place highly do not have custom artwork on their stick, a sign of where their priorities lie as a player.
You mean their priorities lie in being sponsored. Well done you for recognising that.
Most of those players are not sponsored.
ST is a very small community that doesn't have much of anything like that.
For what it's worth, Victrix, MAS and some of the Qanba models are pretty impractical for custom art unless it's one of those custom etched Victrix from an event, on pretty much every Hori there but maybe a HRAP N it's just bad because it won't sit flush (I tried it on a V3 because the stock sticker was fricked but it was terrible and I ended up just vinyl wrapping the panel later). Most of those people also own a pile of sticks anyways so they're not going to have the same attachment.
While ST is not a pro esports community there's certainly a few in there that get free shit as internet influencers or just from connections.
The only one I recognize in that list who is actually corporate sponsored is Onuki (misspelled as Ohnuki).
Alex Valle is sort of sponsored in the sense he's representing his own organization he founded.
The same could be said for Jebailey.
I 100% know Jebailey gets free stuff to shill, both somewhat obviously at his tournaments but also on his video channels.
I don't know the whole thing rubs me slightly wrong for whatever reason. The stereotype of the beginner with fancy expensive equipment exists across all hobbies for a good reason and god knows searching for information about anything exposes me to tons of redditors that have put $500 into their first stick they haven't played a game with yet (well it's less brain melting than r/simracing anyways), but I think the idea that you need to have a disintegrating TE with mismatched buttons to be a serious player is a bit too tryhard. It's the same sort of "well I win on a 20 year old Dell pack in keyboard" argument you see people use against arcade sticks in general. I'd say the reality is the players grinding hard beat the shit out of their equipment and nobody is paying them to make their shit look good except Red Bull because fighting game sponsorships are pretty half assed at the best of times and people are barely ever going to see it so it's just going to be a waste for them. For the other 99.9% of arcade stick owners that will probably never wear out a Sanwa button in their life it's not a fair comparison.
>Sako
Name seems familiar.
Were you on SRK ?
Sako is a pro player that's been sponsored by Hori for like 15 years.
That doesn't answer the question.
tbqh with you sempais I'm not sure if I really enjoy fighting games or just enjoy the tactile sensation of using the joystick and buttons
would
I just use a Hori RAP4kai, it was a decent "right out of the box" stick for $150 at the time.
How well does this mod work?
I don’t get it. I use my F500 on my lap with no issues. What’s the MDF for? What am I missing?
It's a mod to make a small stick like the F300 (which is smaller than the F500) fit on a person's lap better.
And I don't see any reason why it would not work.
is the hayabusa really as bad as everyone says it is?
So when the advertising basically just points out that V shape cam as the difference from a JLF? It's because that is most of the difference, it's just like a JLF with less friction. Which while it makes it take almost certainly the 5-15% less input force they claim, also means it has less damping when it comes to centering oscillations. In the past people have complained about getting opposite inputs on snap back because of that but works on my machine.
Otherwise it has marginally shorter engage, which I wonder if is what the JLX's larger actuator is like.
Sort of the deal with Hayabusa parts in general is slightly less force and travel than Sanwa at the cost of feeling less solid. Supposedly it's what Sako liked and when this stuff came out over a decade ago that kind of esports gimmick seemed to make sense to differentiate the product but arcade sticks turned out to be more of a luxury market where people want stuff that feels beefy and expensive like OP, more like the heavy mouse trend 10-15 years ago rather than the current micro-mouse jerkoff. Hori struggles with that in general because they tend to make fairly light easy to handle cases for the Japanese market while most westerners want their stick to be 20lbs of pussy and ass
>westerners want their stick to be 20lbs of pussy and ass
Guilty as charged.
I though the point was that 20lbs was less than the weight of a midget?
Anybody know if you can make a custom cable to connect the brook retro board to a genesis and neo geo? Kinda irritates me that those are the only ones it doesn't support.
Sure. I can make all kinds of crazy moronic shit. I won't make those, but I can. But I do seem to recall some fricktard actually built a cable that used another AVR to convert whatever shit they stuffed down the RJ45 to a neo geo connector.
But for practical purposes, no. The tards basically wiener blocked themselves by going with a connector that doesn't have enough pins. Then again, who is the tard. The tard who makes garbage or the tard that pays for that garbage?
>doesn't have enough pins
Is that really why you can't connect it to a genesis?
Of course not. If a system needs 9 wires and you only have 8 you can just hook up only 8 and it'll work fine anyway magically. lmao.
Or you could just not use moronic meme garbage and avoid the problem all together.
Explain why the brook retro board is "moronic meme garbage".
Not him but isn't it basically a pricier version of the MC Cthulhu that's slightly easier to hook up to a Brooks multiboard?
MC Cthulhu does not support xinput which is a big knock against it imo.
True if you want to use it for PC that's a problem
Explain why I should explain anything to you?
Because this is a discussion board and you made the accusation. Either defend it via discussion or stop posting.
Ignore him.
He does this in any thread about arcade subjects where any anon asks a question and someone gives a reply.
The troll then comes along and makes a vague shitpost then never backs up any of his views. Just keeps saying moron and zoomer alternatively for the rest of the threads.
This is an image board and throwing a tantrum any time someone says something you don't like doesn't entitle to you to anything. All you'll get for that is mockery. scd
Have you EVER contributed anything to this board?
Aside from triggering countless children to lose their shit and provide epic lulz? Yes.
>neo geo
Since the Neo Geo controller contains no logic all you have to do is connect the switches of the joystick and buttons to the pins of a DB15 connector.
To do that with the brook retro board you'd run extra wires from each button and the joystick to your Neo Geo cable. This could possibly require the use of diodes to make sure the brook retro PCB isn't damaged when plugging the Neo Geo cable into a Neo Geo.
This is messy, and not worth bothering with imo.
Instead you can purchase an Undamned USB Decoder and plug the Brook Retro Board into the decoder which will translate the Brook PCB's USB signal into raw input signal the Neo Geo can understand. This process takes about 1ms which is about 1/16th of a frame. From a real world perspective that is "zero lag".
Yes, and so are 99.9% of the other people on Ganker.
So it would be interesting if I had a PS-15 to take apart too because the Hayabusa seems to be pretty much a knockoff in terms of structure, but looking at an OBSF-30, an OBSFE-30 and a Hayabusa
OBSF-30: plunger floats over the switch, guides by the housing walls, primarily bottoms on the housing
OBSFE-30: plunger friction mounted to the switch, guides by the housing walls, primarily bottoms on the switch
Hayabusa: plunger floats over the switch, guides by a combination of the switch and two tabs, primarily bottoms on the housing
Basically the rubbery plastic on the OBSFE is mostly used to clamp on to the switch, and to soften the impact on the button walls, more than to dampen the impact at the bottom like the foam pads in the OBSFS. To do that it sits slightly higher but it still bottoms lower than an OBSFS. It has no tabs on the plunger to hold it at topout because it works more like a mechanical keycap where you could just pull it off. But the more interesting thing about the Hayabusa is most of the plunger actually never touches the walls at all and you can see through the button entirely between the rim and plunger. Presumably that choice is because the button is extremely low profile so it doesn't have much surface area on the walls to begin with, but it wobbles so much because the tabs have a really wide opening in the housing, so much they do nothing at the top of the travel where they allow more movement than the switch. In any event Hori is using maybe as little as like half as much plastic for the whole button.
Beyond that they have a different force ramp for whatever reason. Haybusa is lower resistance up top but goes up to higher resistance earlier and seem even at the bottom. Arguably gives them a little more feel but we aren't talking about a lot of resistance in general. Once again wish I had a PS-15 to compare.
They make those to a standard where your moronic child can dangle from one and dump a soda on it and it will still work
Why would you want that?
Mind you I forgot what I already knew which is the SW-68 has a step in it too, just less aggressive. So that's why if you push them together, the Hayabusa moves, then the Sanwa, then the Hayabusa again when the Sanwa gets to the bottom. I assume the Sanwa looks sort of like this which is why I guess the Hori switch has to be very similar to the MM9-3.
Oddly that probably lends itself to the various different interpretations you get of button differences depending which way and how hard you press. The harder step can feel stiffer or clickier, or if you smash through that part of the stroke but not all the way the stronger spring at the bottom can feel "mushy" compared to hard bottoming. I think the Hayabusa tends to get the reputation of a light twitchy button because the wobbly low profile design means you get very little travel or resistance if you press off center.
Are there any serious players who don't bottom out the switch with excessive force every time they press a button anyway?
Every footage I've ever seen of high level players has them smashing buttons with extreme prejudice.
One of the really young Japanese pro players whose name I forget that never went through arcades has this uncomfortable looking spread hand style where he can't possibly be pressing buttons hard.
Actually I was wrong even, I was thinking of Ryusei who was a BlazBlue player before SFV
#t=12m25s
From others I've seen everyone bottoms buttons for sure, but there's a mix of some that hit everything hard and others that will push fairly soft on smaller inputs and then start hitting buttons harder when they need to press buttons far apart quickly or something.
>Gamerfinger buttons
$6 each, could file them under the same category as the OP.
Are they really worth it?
Does anyone who wins tournaments use them?
Considering the difference between a golden lever and a JLF is like $110 and the difference between an 8 button set of HBSFs and OBSFs is around $30 in Japan (and I see a lot them with only 6 or 7) it's not quite on the same level. But even there the price and garbage distribution is enough of an issue they've been trying Gravity KS instead a lot (those have an issue with false inputs though). Well keep in mind one of the reasons Japanese swap buttons a lot is because they live in thin walled apartments and are dealing with noise so they're looking for quiet buttons without too much tradeoff.
Speaking of which the prototype Seimitsu silent button they previewed 3 years ago is so far vaporware and they've instead releasing their own MX switch button, which is a shame because the two piece design that only had the elastomer part on the bottom instead of for the whole plunger seemed like it wouldn't have the issues the OBSFE does with the rubbery button caps for me.
This post got me looking up videos of players and looking at their hands. And I noticed this:
?t=71
Watch Tomo's hands during the match. He's using all 8 buttons on his controller. For a six button game without a macro function. It looks like he has duplicated his HP and HK buttons so he can hit them with his pinky finger, possibly making the juice kicks he practices during the button check a bit easier for himself. It lets him do a piano of 4 instead of 3.
This is against tournament rules.
The Evo controller rules kind of suck so even now duplicate buttons are allowed, even that ridiculous Potemkin pizza box is Evo legal to this day and they explicitly allow Hitbox CrossUps and Gafroboxes. Back in 2018 there was pretty much nothing but "no macros and no turbo lol"
>This is against tournament rules.
Not according to the current Evo tournament rules.
https://www.evo.gg/rules
There are a lot of things which are forbidden, but duplicating buttons is not one of them.
I am 99% sure it was not against the rules in 2018 either.
It *should* be against the rules, especially in a game like ST that is played with the spirit of sticking to the arcade standard.
>It *should* be against the rules
Why exactly?
For one, Capcom Pro Tour doesn't allow duplicate buttons, which prevents this kind of utter madness. Secondly ST is to this day primarily an arcade game with only 6 buttons physically available.
For all the efforts Capcom did to neutralize leverless cheats though, they went and allowed 11 action buttons instead of the usual 8 so many Japanese SF6 players went and drilled 2 or 3 extra holes in their stick and they were quickly added to Chinese leverless offerings.
Just looking at that thing gives me a headache.
>they went and allowed 11 action buttons
Which leads to controllers like this winning world championships.
That one is also only Evo (and Arc World Tour but it's not winning that lmao) legal. Shitbox is pretty evasive about it emphasizing "it's the analog stick", but it's just a JLF and CPT requires duplicate directional inputs to have one be mechanically analog (aka be a normal ass controller) But yeah the new Arc games also allow mapping a shitload of buttons, Granblue Rising is just lucky there's only 8 inputs worth using anyways but it used to be possible to play optimally on 6 in the original GBVS.
It's goofy because this grew out of a trend to make 3 or 4 button games but then they started macro'ing everything because those 3 or 4 button games inevitably had multi-button combinations and just grew into everything being an 8+ button game.
Generally, the only macros which are allowed in tournaments are those which the game lets you set within the in-game options menu.
SSF2X has no such function. One could argue that the console releases versions of this game had that feature, but it's a weak argument.
SSF2X is a game which is still played with the idea that players should try to adhere to the arcade standard.
In recent years western tournaments have started using cabinets for the game again due to this preference among the majority of players.
Now, a duplicate button isn't exactly a macro by definition, but it's function is attempting to do the same thing: make your inputs easier than using the standard minimum button set.
Having duplicate buttons helps with pianoing as mentioned. It would also help with hitting PPP and KKK moves. Things it would affect
Zangief: Spinning Lariat
Claw: Backflip
T. Hawk: Condor Dive
Boxer: Turn Punch
Dhalsim: Teleport
Honda: Hundred Hand Slap
Chun-li: Lightning Legs Kick
Blanka: Electricity
All Characters: mashing in/out of throws.
It's a small edge, but one which should be banned because there's no real downside to using it. Which means that if you want to be competitive in SSF2X you need an 8 button controller.
But why stop there? Boxer in particular would probably benefit from a 12 button controller to allow unusual hand positions while still charging turn punch. Which would make a character who is already top tier nearly unstoppable.
Are you sure the extra buttons aren't just unbound and he's hitting them to fake out his opponent by seeing if they'll react to the button noise? Either way it is something that would normally be infeasible on an actual cabinet so I'd have to agree with
It's a sign of masculine energy.
Which version of the Qanba Q2 case should I get? Are there any big differences other than color and the touchpad on the Qanba Crystal?
So just trying to wrap my head around some things: OBSFs if released slowly top out on the switch. But if you let them snap back then they pop up hard, the plunger tries to shoot off the switch stem, and you get a bunch of extra noise from the tabs hitting the housing, as well as a bit of extra unsprung travel on the next press from the button floating up. OBSFEs don't do that because they're fully attached to the stem. The way Hayabusa delivers the 0.3mm shorter activation than Kuros they advertise is by preloading the switch so it always tops out on the tabs.
Which is how I realized I need to actually take the switch out to compare them, and it then turns out that the Hori switch seems damn near identical to an SW-68 in characteristics on its own, and a Hayabusa with an SW-68 in it feels at least 95% the same as a stock Hayabusa. It's just that preload that shifts the force curve earlier in the stroke making it seem like a stiffer button.
I have a F300 and i couldn't give less of a frick about how good the stick and buttons are, i only use it to play metal slug.
There's also the question of button type.
What stops me from putting two of these square buttons right next to each other separated off from my standard set of 6? Now I can press them at the same time with a single finger. Especially my thumb. Or my palm. It's not a macro tho. It's two separate buttons 😉
Fighting games are in a very funny place of there never having been enough at stake for people to exploit how weak the rules and officiating are, plus until recently arcade cultivated skill outshone any sort of console cheats people had anyways. It's actually pretty funny how hard people shill the classic hitbox as some sort of optimal fighting game controller when it's barely past a proof of concept design wise.
With a million bucks at stake in the CPT this year we're about to see a paradigm shift.
>You need to get a thing that has literal gold in it
A decent enough to win EVO Hori full arcade controller costs like 50USD
$50 is a little low these days.
$100-150 is a more realistic range.
It's not real gold my man.