>"40k is grimdark, there are no good guys, the imperium is satirical, it is the cruelest regime imaginable etc. etc."
>meanwhile the setting is becoming more and more noblebright and heroic, where space marines are portrayed as saviors holding back the darkness
What did GW mean by this?
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>40k is grimdark
true
>there are no good guys
Blatantly false
>The Imperium is satirical
false
>its the cruelest blabla
False, Chaos and Dark Eldar is
>marines
have always been the saviours holding back the darkness, unless they are spikey.
>t. started playing after 1E
lore was solidified in 2e
checkmate reddit
proof?
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/10/06/warhammer-day-35-years-of-only-war/
The codexes were huge, masterful tomes of deep, exciting lore that took the setting into the stratosphere. Each new book set the standard for the faction it described, bringing with it tons of cool new metal miniatures with higher production values and a reinvigorated look throughout. Second Edition lore remains the core of the background even to this day. This is the edition where Space Marines became gene-bulked monastic super-soldiers, Eldar became rather more than cackling corsairs in motley, and Orks were no longer the punchline. Chaos Space Marines and their daemons were redefined almost from the ground up, and the Imperial Guard got a lot of tanks.
that's cool and all, but i don't consider it canon. same as disney wars. never happened
also this bit
>This was the era of brightly coloured armies, powerful heroes, and properly codified lore for the first time.
Nonsense. Most of the fluff was solidified before 2E came out. Marines in particular were described as super soldiers living in monasteries calling each other "brother" in the RT book. And the description of all their extra organs was in WD 4 months later. Most of the background solidified pretty quickly, either in RT itself, WD articles, or the Realm of Chaos books.
well no, you are wrong and also contradicting GWs official comments on it
>GW is officially wrong about itself
No surprise there.
>everyones wrong but me!
lol ok dunning kruger
You can just look at the Rogue Trader book and see for yourself. It's a 35 year old book with scans available, not a mysterious relic written in a lost language.
anon, no one cares Rogue trader was superseded by 2e which became the basis for the setting moving forward.
Quite literally no one cares you bought the RT reprint and like name dropping it. You are wrong.
>lie about the first edition
>get called out
>uh no one cares about the first edition
The corporate slop-peddlers who parade around in the flayed skin of GW are not GW. The people who were actually there, who actually created the material and wrote the books and magazines, they were GW and they've spoken about this at length on podcasts and interviews over the years, so you can't even argue that the true telling of events is just grog fans making shit up: the main purpose of 2nd edition was to tidy up and tweak *the rules*, the fluff was largely already written in WD articles, RT supplements, and internal documents, all 2nd did was consolidate it all and make it easily available to everyone rather than just whoever managed to collect all the appropriate issues. The Flanderized version of RT that this bizarre alliance of senile megagrogs and modern slopguzzlers are clinging to never really existed, it was invented in the minds of these delusional old codgers in the time it took for GW to develop their ideas into a publishable form.
40K was always grimdark. The Imperium was always a shithole. The Marines were always meant to be morally ambiguous like everything else. You're wrong, you always have been, and the people who *created the IP* have told you so repeatedly.
2e was written by Priestly. The lore is completely different to 1e.
1e was never really thought about during the 90s and 00s
So no you are an autist pushing a revisionist take on 40k.
Time to stop.
I'm pushing nothing except a concise and accurate synopsis of the words of the people who literally wrote the material you're talking about, both RT and 2nd. The only revisionists here are you and your delusional chums - your headcanon was always shit and always nothing more than that.
its not concise or accurate. Most of the fluff in RT was tossed out and rewritten for 2e, thats been the core lore that was almost copy pasted word for word up until Gullimans return.
You are a liar frick off
Me, reading the comic where orks attack a feudal world and when the Dark Templar come to liberate them the sentiment the humans are left with is: "I used to pray for the Emperor to send his angels, now I pray that he never sends them again"
>Wow, straightforwardly saviours holding back the darkness, wow!
It's Imperial propaganda you wiener.
What says so, and what's the reality then?
Guilliman is a genocidal tyrant who wants to purge the alien and crush anyone who dares to question his orders just like his father but GW will never show him in a negative light.
Yeah, but he's handsome and wears brightly colored blue and gold armor, so he can execute a billion innocent civilians and still be a good guy.
There is literally nothing wrong with purging the alien
Total xenos death
The galaxy belongs to humanity
>Primarchs are alluded to as noble generals, leaders, fierce warriors and tacticians
>BL publish stories
>they all have daddy issues
thats what irks me about BL, marines used to be like the Jedi.
Basically they'd often stand up for the little guy and confront the Imperium itself if it was victimising civilians.
To sell toys.
They suck at making the imperium into bad guys. I have yet to see a relevant comissar or a space marine character that acts like their stereotypes because gee dubs would rather make a book where Dante or Cain saves a litter of kittens inside a hive fleet instead of a villainous protagonist
It’s because you don’t fricking read jackass that boring ass character that’s in every book was last in the Martyrs Tomb leading Savlar Chen Dogs
I don’t know how you could read a single novel or campaign book and come to this conclusion. Every single campaign over emphasizes how fricked the imperium is between being moronic and the massive fricking rift splitting the empire in two and fricking up travel and communications. The “main” novel series Dawn of Fire is a series of the Imperium literally bumble fricking ass first over every single problem they encounter and then followed up with a overall campaign explanation of logistics telling you “no really you don’t get it, this novel? Was the good end in which 90% of the forces died and the objective barely was secured or outright lost. It’s actually worse than you think.” Iron Kingdom explains how the crusade fleets have near unlimited ability to requisitions worlds for supplies and how that same power, abused, causes worlds outside of their strategical advance to fricking rebel and frick everything up. Or how they basically kidnap entire continents and a planets worth of people to fill casualties. Where do you dumbfricks even come from with this shit? How bored are you?
The people saying that 40k has gotten too noblebright have never actually cracked open a 40k book and only get their lore from memes and influencers.
its ironically a bunch of chucklefricks that have been anti-edge for a long time on here. They made noblebright 40k they were so assblasted. They have been shilling this noblebright crap for years now
DING DING DING DING
its the fricking videobloggers and podcasters and livestreamers, its always them. They basically repeat whatever their favorite 20somethingknowitallyoutuber says.
You can see it in everything else too. Watch Moon and you'll comprehend 90% of the edgy teenage brats population
We need to gatekeep harder
This post really made me appreciate how heavily GW has had to rely on "tell, don't show" to compensate for Primaris marines lmao.
>one author still depicts the setting as somewhat grimdark therefore it still is
>please ignore everything about primaris marines
No, taller homosexuals are not noblebright no matter how hard you firstborn hangerons whine nice samegay
i think the seething comes from redditors that thought the Imperium is incapable of innovation
Being that terminal decline was the defining thematic trait of the faction - and really, the IP as a whole - they have every right to seethe about it. And don't try and argue otherwise, literally the entire given raison d'etre of the Tau and their whole reason for existing(beyond "sell more toys") was to provide a thematic counterpoint to that.
The Imperium isnt really in decline, its just basically reached an equilibrium with how it does things.
It lost half of its territory in one stroke and is losing everything else at a fast pace. The first Admech codex describes the technological base of the Imperium as being drifting to utter ruin.
Moreover, ADB said, and this was supported by other authors, that the Imperium doesn't have the strength to defeat any of its enemies. (picture related)
And Rick Priestly and Alan Merrit said that the destiny of mankind-Imperium is to fall to Chaos.
Here is the thing: This doesnt matter. 40k exist to sell models and the Imperium lines are the best seeling ones. So you will get boxes with Imperium stomping people, you will get HQ that stomps people, you will get novels where the imperium stomps people, you will get video games where the imperium stomps people, you will get campaign books where the imperium stomps people. It will win and win and win and win and win again. Sure, some smartmass might come out of the bushwork and say "uhmmm, actually....." but that doesnt matter, for 90% of all media will depict the Imperium as winning all the time on all fronts. And it will continue to do so.
Your post is filled with fallacies. 40K existing as a table top game doesn't refute that the Imperium is in decline which the one of the majort themes of this one faction since the start.
You ignored that for ever Imperial victory (often phyric ones) GW has them losing a dozen wars. Like I said in a previous post the Imperium hasn't one a single major narrative campaign since late 8th ED. They lost in the Vigilus update, they lost in Charadon, they lost in the Arks of Omen, etc etc.
Imperium is the underdog and people love an underdog.
This. I want humanity to win. Simple as.
Not really. The Imperium is the collapsing superpower. It's in decline but it's going to rage and push back (futility) all the way down.
No. The Imperium winning would validate its tyranny and evil. GW will never allow that to happen.
your basic point is
>IoM triggers me therefore all humans should die.
That's my biggest problem with Imperium detractors. You act like mankind's extinction would have been the better outcome.
misanthropic marxists have been doing this since this board went up.
They were a lot less vocal back then though.
Same reason they seethe at Starship troopers.
Its an alternate future that isn't explicitly communist
>Founders of the setting say that humanity-Imperium is doomed to Chaos
> Current authors say humanity to doomed to Chaos
>anons so obsessed with space fascists pretend that anons reporting these facts are communists that hate the setting
Nope. Just stating it as it is.
You can't beat evil by becoming more evil, especially when the evil you are fighting against feeds on evil. You end up with double evil and that's bad.
Then I suppose the Star Child will be necessary for the Imperium's reform and salvation. I'm not saying it's a guarantee, just a possibility. The cannon has been ignored and reconned many times before, and it will surely happen again.
Pre-Guilliman awakening and the reshuffling of the entire narrative, posts ignored.
Honestly, you'd think that if the Emperor wanted to save humanity by protecting it from the Warp, he'd have focused on replacing baseline humans with blanks, not trying to "guide them towards a psychic awakening" that might not ever have worked.
He was speedrunning an inevitable evolution into a psychic race. Speedrunning them in the opposite direction sounds like a genuinely horrible idea which is impressive considering how bad the first one is
>I don’t know how you could read a single novel or campaign book and come to this conclusion.
Primarchs magically coming back via warp magic.
The emperor not only still being alive, but also cognizant.
Humanity making steps to reclaiming lost territory.
The star child.
>primarchs coming back
You mean how both of them came back and hate every fricking thing in the imperium including their self?
>The emperor not only still being alive, but also cognizant.
He’s as cognizant as a screaming fire
>Humanity making steps to reclaiming lost territory.
>The imperium didn’t die when the rift happened so it’s noblebright
>The star child
A thing that might Exists wow cool nice
I really hate how the average 40k poster has the literacy of an orangutan. Every single thing you listed here has been presented in the dumbest, grimmest, and dire situation possible in setting. You literally have to be reading past the words to get to this point.
I don’t remember the last piece of fiction I read that had the imperium stomp anything. Every single thing is a Pyrrhic victory or a victory that literally doesn’t matter by the end of the book
. The only way you would believe this is if context and actual facts was irrelevant to you
you seem a bit obsessed
Obsessed because I know what I’m talking about? Yeah sure why not
You don't understand what you're talking about.
The 40K setting is a dystopia. Everything is shit, forever.
A primarch magically reappearing, or the Emperor suddenly waking up, or a mad scientist figuring out to make new space marines is such a inconsistent tonal shift that it beggars belief.
Imagine reading the climax of 1984, but instead of the Ministry of Truth torturing Winston Smith into accepting the regime, a bunch of American troopers burst into the building, save Winston, and then the novel begins telling an action-adventure story. That's basically what happens every time GW commits an asspull in the Imperium's favor.
>inconsistent tonal shift that it beggars belief.
Considering you have no idea how to grasp 40k’s tone that you’re unironically saying this I’m glad you’re disappointed by it. You are the worst kind of person GW could make happy
>Considering you have no idea how to grasp 40k’s tone
It's a dystopia. Hence the comparison. It's not hard to figure out.
If you want to argue otherwise, you're lying at best, moronic at worst.
It’s dystopia but because the Military got new toys, literally the only part of the government that ever does in the setting, got new toys while every single other facet of it is ignore it’s no longer dystopia.
You are a very smart man btw I feel like I need to say this
Literally nothing of what has happened stops the setting from being shit. Gorillaman coming back and space marines becoming 2 feet taller did and does not make the average citizens life better. The idea that either of these two would shows how little you understand about the imperium.
>Gorillaman coming back and space marines becoming 2 feet taller did and does not make the average citizens life better.
The Lion literally appeared out of thin air, pulled the Emperor's shield out of his ass, and has spent countless years using warp powers (!!!) to ninja-hop between planets and save citizens of the Imperium.
What about Cawl? Would you like to talk about the fact that he made an OC Donut Steel Primarch by fusing the genetic code and warp profiles of every other primarch? And that this guy is so adept at sensing the warp that he can *visually see* the warp disturbances that enemy fleets produce?
Why are you so moronic? That's my question.
>The Lion literally appeared out of thin air, pulled the Emperor's shield out of his ass, and has spent countless years using warp powers (!!!) to ninja-hop between planets and save citizens of the Imperium.
You have got to have an IQ below fridge temperature if you unironically believe one guy has enough time to go between over one hundred thousands worlds, while hunting his moronic sons, whole hunting Vashtoor, while hunting Luther, while navigating Nihlus with the dark angels has the time to single handily increase the standard of living for some random peasant. How the frick does the Lion showing up and killing some guy stop an imperial citizen from living under back breaking authoritarianism where he literally is a resource who’s job is to turn bolts to the left for the rest of his life in the bolt turning factory? I can’t stand you morons that don’t realize the imperium exists beyond space marines
>What about Cawl? Would you like to talk about the fact that he made an OC Donut Steel Primarch by fusing the genetic code and warp profiles of every other primarch?
Again how the frick does this serve increasing the average lifespan and quality of life for some random fricker on Armageddon or necromunda, or any of the numerous worlds in which the whole theme of the world is it’s shit to live here? Or are you just crying about the fact that a character could do a thing the story said a million times people could do if they had the information? Literally what is any of this shit important to imperial citizen Hector EagleheadTattoo for? Is the existence of a failed experiment by both Cawl’s and Primus’ own opinion suddenly going to make him get a real meal three times a day, democratic representation, a world with an atmosphere that’s not actively trying to kill him because of overpopulation and resource exploitation, or the massive fricking hole in the galaxy starving his planet because the warp doesn’t work “properly” any more
The entire galaxy is now split in half with the exception of one very small area actively beset by demons, we are now in the 4th Tyrannic War and it's actively going after the Primarchs / Lion currently, the Necrons are trying to give themselves human bodies and Guilliman as to deal with it himself in the Pariah Nexus, we know the Dark Eldar have constructed their own Golden Throne, and we know for a fact that the Golden Throne is going to fail within the next 200 in-world years. Every time you fricking morons says this shit I want to smack in the mouth. You are so full of shit.
Despite the Great Rift dividing the Empire, Guilliman's rise as the unofficial second Emperor has given the Imperium a way fresher tone and outlook. The Tyranids keep jobbing, Chaos is Chaos, Orks and Elves keep being irrelevant fodder, Necrons are trash, Tau are a smudge on the map. The setting stagnated for 20 years and we are now finally moving past 30k and Cadia and into a new age for lore. The Primarchs returning means there will be a new Galaxy wide war that rivals the Horus Heresy that will both reforge the Imperium and finally destroy the old order.
>moving past Cadia
I wish someone would tell the modeling department this. Everything is fricking cadians.
We need some rape in the setting
OP is a fricking stupid fascist for whom Imperium is not a terrifying vision of the future, but unironic ideal to which one should strive. Yes, the OP is dumber than a monkey, all fascists are like that, if they were smart they wouldn't be fascists.
go back to sigmarxism you homosexual
why are you RT autistic homosexuals like this all the time?
You try to one up people on here by name dropping RT and pretending to be grogs.
When you clearly have no clue wtf you are discussing. RT is barely relevant to 40k
sigmarxism please go and stay go
The Imperium are automatically the good guys now because there's a black guy on most modern 40k books.
There has been a gradual tonal shift after politically motivated morons began b***hing that GW supports fascist regimes. Which, unironically, justifies why we may need fascist regimes.
>imaginable etc. etc."
the setting is becoming more and more noblebright and heroic, where space marines are portrayed as saviors holding back the darkness
Not really, unless you have some warped sense of what is a 'savior' and what is 'Heroic.' In fact it's the Space Marines that clearly represent the darkness itself. Indeed, only chaosgays can claim any aspect of being the heroic saviors in this setting (which, of course, they are).
hahaha what, Marines are more often than not the victims of the Imperium and sit independent of it.
40k started as a joke then started being written by people who thought it was badass and didn't get the joke
Ghazghkull Mag Uruk Thraka is literally a joke on former UK PM MArgaret Thatcher
There used to be an inquisitor in first ed called Obi-Wan Sherlock Clousseau and he looked like this
its all just a meme that people started taking seriously, and thats why it sucks
>posts the ghazghkul myth
real sigmarxism hours. That was debunked by Andy Chambers, your entire post is invalid.
I don't know who sigmarxism is but I don't believe Chambers, WH40k back in the day was crammed SO FULL of goofy shit that he was probably just trying to cover his ass
"n-no it's been serious this whole time guys"
>sigmarxism
A Vocal minority reddit board of unironic socialists. Best to ignore them than give them the time of day.
>more noblebright and heroic, where space marines are portrayed as saviors holding back the darkness
That's not what happening.
The Imperium is losing on all fronts and the Imperium is getting desperate. Since late 8th ED, the Imperium hasn't won a single major war.
The new Pariah Nexus reveals that the Imperium Sanctus hasn't been stabilized yet. Roboute's crusade is already stretched thin and failing in many of its objectives.
Why lorelets want to tell us what our setting is about?
>Primarchs magically coming back via warp magic.
Roboute can't stop the Imperial decline.
The Lion returned and the Imperials still lost. The Dark Angel chapters got buck broken by Abaddon.
And there are way more traitor Primarchs active.
>The emperor not only still being alive, but also cognizant.
Means little considering the power of Chaos is more active and way more potent from one corner of the galaxy to another.
Chaos is described as the ascendant force in the galaxy (source Eldritch Omens). The Imperium has never been weaker.
>Humanity making steps to reclaiming lost territory.
After losing more than half of their territory which is being assimilated by Abaddon and other traitors uncontestedly they are starting and failing in their effort to reclaim the south. WOW. It's almost as embarrassing as your reading skills.
>The star child.
Stated to be either the greatest enemy of Chaos or its greatest ally depending on how the cards fall. Kor Phaeron and the Hand of Abaddon are aiming to kill it. Don't count your eggs before they hatch.
Even back then the goofy stuff was vastly outnumbered by the more sincere aspects. Warhammer also was more of a roleplaying game at the start, and the lore evolved as it became a war game.
>rogue trader was silly you guys
anon, no one gives a frick about some shit that might have been irony 30 years ago. Most people playing 40k today dont even know who Margaret Thatcher is. its time to move on. The market has changed.
the guys a troll, hes been doing this for years now. Hes quite aware what he is saying is bullshit
Because mcu is jot shot right now, just like heavy metal used go be
When new flavour of them month comes 40k will adapt and some moron on tg will talk about good old days of plot progression
too many trump voters ITT
Its impossible to actually discuss 40k with leftists
Emps is not amused with this thread
Okay but what does the tube going into his shoulder even do.
cute guard
Marxoids new tactic in recent years has to be shill RT with the angle 40k was original a silly satirical work and not to be taken seriously.
I havent seen this much pearl clutching ever.
its like a form of the satanic panic, Imperium panic if you will
It's easier to defend a half-truth than an outright lie after all: RT did have more outright silly things like Inquisitor Obi-Wan, or Goff Rokk. And it was heavily inspired by 2000 AD, which is pretty silly and satirical.
>is that a non-socialist fictional setting?
>billions must die
>there are actual young people reading about the Imperium trying to implement it irl and its.... terrifying.
>thread full of schizos screaming at some imaginary redditors and leftists in their heads
40k lore discussions were always pretty pointless but this is bleak.
Yeah ok the leftist that continually chimps at the Imperium and mentions Thatcher ever fricking thread, hes not real
I'm sure he is, I'm sure he is. Now frick off.
No, i will never frick off you annoying pest. Its my hobby.
If i ever catch one of you c**ts irl ill kill you
>no you're wrong, 40k isn't noblebright because Chaos is winning
>no you're wrong, Avengers isn't noblebright because Thanos vaporized half the galaxy
it's almost like
capitalism doesn't work
Guilliman returning makes sense but I hope Lion dies or disappear
Guilliman as the only survivor, Sanguinius as a ghost that helps sometimes as an Imperial Saint and Corax as a crazy ghoul helping and fricking up like the Legion of the Damned would fit the setting better, all you need are those 3.
>40k is grimdark
I think it is turning into "nobledark" if that is a term
>there are no good guys
GW is turning the Imperium into a pseudo "anti-villain" out of necessity and/or inevitability due to the circumstances of the setting if it was personified as a person. If anything they're slowly making the Imperium the one true good guy faction and I don't like it.
>it is the cruelest regime imaginable
GW is toning that down for modern audiences. Hopefully the Imperium is still cruel in a sort of "protect and preserve the human race at all costs" is still present in the setting.
>What did GW mean by this?
You and I both know that GW is skirting a very tough line where if they mess up they will make the Imperium and what "that crowd" disagrees with entirely look good. I think GW is messing up pretty hard to be honest.
You are replying to a guy who can’t read anything none of his complaints are based in reality just headcanon and schizophrenia
Normies want goody good guys and GW gives.
That's it.