>They made the Emperor capable of having the highest power level in any setting when ever he feels like it
>can just begin apotheosis and turn into a God more powerful than the universe and the Chaos Gods
lmfao
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>Samus is a deamon of the Dark King
>The Emperor nearly becomes the Dark King but rejects it
>This banishes Samus forever because he was a deamon from the future coming into the past beofre his gods birth but now that history is changed he dies
>Horus could be the next Dark King but dies
>Loken dies and becomes Samus (?)
>Abaddon is the next Dark King candidate
Thats my understadning of this whole thing.
My 2 cents the MAN that is the Emperor should not be able to be a chaos god, however the God Emperor Power in the Warp should be able to be tainted into a warp Power like the major 4.
The Dark King already exists and its still the Emperor he just delayed the Apotheosis to the far future. Since time in the warp means a God always existed.
The only puzzle for me is how the Emperor will go from Holy Fire God of righteousness hes turning into now to the Chaos God of Ruin.
My guess? Something to do with the Golden Throne purifying the Psyker Energy and belief going into the Apotheosis. Either its reversal or corruption would lead to the Dark King.
Alternatively, before the decade is out we're going to get End Times in the 42nd Millennium, shit gets fricked, and someone like Trazyn is going to have to pull a Nagash so they can reboot the timeline, introducing new gods and factions
Also something something Dark Mechanicus something Vashtorr pulling a Horned Rat.
Nah, Malcador stated that the Dark King Light's reaches across all possible timelines, except the Grimdark future.
The Dark King is fully aborted in the Grimdark timeline as per the following:
>The Emperor sacrifices his emotions to create the Star Child, meaning there is no emotion for the newborn Chaos God to attach itself to.
>The Inevitable City, his domain, becomes the Desolate City, with his quasi-fetal self wailing in eternal torture that the emperor imposed upon him.
>Samus turning to Khorne for protection, so he also lost his only daemon.
>The GHR becoming the Encroaching Ruin Aetheric Dominion, leaving the Dark King unable to fully ascend to a Dark God and to claim the power meant for him in the Chaos Pantheon.
The Dark King is fully aborted and there is no chance for him to rise. What we need to worry about is if Vashtorr manages to become the Malevolent Artifice Dominion.
i don't think so and they are strongly hinting Cruze will be the Dark King
>the emperor is the dark king
>no horus is the dark king
>no abbadon is the dark king
>no curze is the dark king
Is there anyone who ISNT the dark king? Is it just teh chaos version of claiming someone is the messiah?
I knew it, I'm surrounded by Dark Kings.
>Emperor the Everchosen
its the Chaos God of pure Chaos whose domain is ruin eg King of Chaos
The only reason multiple people are "candidates" was because they didnt know itd be the Emperor but he went and showed them it was always him.
But Vashtorr is already the Malevolent Artifice Dominion is he not?
He is growing the power of the dominion/ his power but is already the head of that area of chaos?
New WD article names him the infernal architect but that seems to just be a new epithet for him
is a deamon of the Dark King
Samus is a Khorne daemon.
Retconned, his updated HH rules no longer have Khorne affiliation, he's a daemon of Encroaching Ruin (which is essentially the same as Dark King), not any of the Four.
Samus is Khorne in 40k, while in HH he is Encroaching Ruin. A result of the Dark King being denied his birth.
Modern 40k ""lore"" was a mistake
This.
I have been playing since 1999 and have never once heard of the Dark King. Is that like a worse evil version of the Star Child?
Frick any fluff written after 4th edition it’s simply not canon.
Dark King is probably something that Abnett created to bring up again in the Bequin series with the King in Yellow being revealed as Valdor.
40k is starting to sound like an anime.
It's an application of what Priestly wrote in his notes.
Basically, the Emperor splits away the good part of his soul that contains his compassion, kindness etc. in order to be able to live with himself over all the whole "I had to kill my son and now must subsist on a diet on human souls". If he hadn't done that, he would had gone nuts and fallen to Chaos. He knows he's gonna die but the plan is to hang on until the Star Child awakens.
The Dark King is basically a version of this. The notion that the Emperor rather than giving up power and splitting his soul instead decides to double down on his authoritarian tendencies. In this case he would have easily won against Horus but doomed both himself and the species.
I mean, shit, Priestly even includes how the Emperor is capable to increasing his own power by absorbing souls that are ultimately made up of raw warp stuff. You know, just like in the books.
None of this stuff is really "nu-lore".
The Emperor is the rotting corpse of a super space dictator who's not quite dead, and which can hardly be considered as still being alive, worshiped as a god by untold billions of people dying every second in his name. Period. That's his tragedy, and the tragedy of all of mankind in 40k.
Any Star-child/sensei nonsense and whatnots added to it just make it all very silly.
>Any Star-child/sensei nonsense and whatnots added to it just make it all very silly.
That's your opinion. It's also the original intent of the authors.
So the original Emperor's win condition is that Starchild and his army of Robin Hoods will appear and beat Chaos? Which begs the question: where are they in modern 40k?
yeah early 40k/ RT had each faction/race have a win condition they were all striving towards.
>where are the Sensei in modern 40k?
Some of their ideas were rolled into the Grey Knights (secret warrior order of special boys with a unique relationship to the Emperor) and a branch of the inqusition.
The Emperor being able to father real children makes him too human. So by removing it it makes the Emperor most distant to the average human which is a good thing imo
Grey Knights aren't conceptually like Starchild or its champions at all though, neither is the Inquisition. Both of those represent the same grimdark decline as admech, guard etc.
There was a BL series back in the 90s that started to work on the idea. This storyline was essentially dropped when the original creatives left the company. One of the rulebooks would later contain a reference about how the Inquistion wiped out a "cult of the Star Child".
Then came an era of complete stagnation for 40k, the "it's a setting not as story" phase. In reality, nobody at GW had any idea what to do. This also coincided with GW going on a cost-cutting spree and failing to grow their business for like a decade.
In the here and now, GW decided to go in a different direction with the whole Indomitus Crusade thing.
>Then came an era of complete stagnation for 40k, the "it's a setting not as story" phase. In reality, nobody at GW had any idea what to do. This also coincided with GW going on a cost-cutting spree and failing to grow their business for like a decade.
A golden age of player freedom.
Explain in what way has GW taken away our freedom?
1) GW decided 'advancing the plot' would sell more models (by squatting entire ranges and forcing players to buy new ones)
2) the 'people' who grew up playing 40k in the 80s/90s became old enough to not only work for GW in the 00s/10s, but also to throw their weight around.
It's like how the original superman is a guy who fights crime, or batman fights crime, or spiderman is kind of a nerd incel and they were (broadly) intended for kids but all of these became soap operas attempting to revel in being adult. The only difference I guess is that 40k was more for the cheeky teenager or 20/30-something neeeeeerd with disposable income who plays DnD with the boys over drinks, but are now the domain of aged and wizened men in their 60s and 70s writing some kind of tolkeinesque lovecraftian space opera.
How has any of this "taken away your freedom"?
By introducing draconian soi commissars who make sure the lore (aka the bore) is full of marvel superheroesque plot twists.
40k always had heroes doing shit and plot stuff going on. You're not making any sense.
>taken away your freedom
nta but you're quoting yourself mate, nobody else said that.
also probably because people trying to follow GW lore thought they had more options before and what games workshop says means they have less options now, which means creative freedom levels have fallen.
>nta but you're quoting yourself mate, nobody else said that.
You're the one who's not following the discussion.
Anon here
makes claim about "a golden age of player freedom". I ask how it's been taken away. People insist on irrelevant answers so I ask again. It's not my fault people can't answer a simple question.
>thought they had more options before and what games workshop says means they have less options now
This is totally subjective. You could easily argue your options have expanded in other ways. Also, who care? Anything made by players is fan-fiction by definition. Nobody is stopping you from running a narrative campaign with your mates that restores the status quo you liked.
>but are now the domain of aged and wizened men in their 60s and 70s writing some kind of tolkeinesque lovecraftian space opera.
and this is bad because?
>tolkeinesque lovecraftian space opera.
Rick Priestly literally names Lord of the Rings, Lovecraft, Dune, Paradise Lost and 2000 AD as major influences.
The Starchild has appeared in visions in the chronologically lastest BL novels. And there's currently a race between the Inquisition and the Word Bearers to find it first.
>Word Bearers vs Grey Knights box
Oh frick..... I'm gonna CONSOOOOOOOOOM
The lore always was this way then? And it only now gets actually realized?
>All grogs and doubters now owe GW and Dan Abnett an apology and a sizable portion fo their paycheck
It's like the Whills in Star Wars. The creative geniuses always plant a seed of weirdness somewhere, but it's fine as long as it isn't harped on.
That sounds like an excuse to me to not hand James your lunch money for the next month
And what is the point of a seed if it never amounts to anything?
Like
mentioned, the original GW had all intention to go through with this and the current GW more or less is picking it back up
Also, a thing Star Wars and Warhammer have in common is that they both love to copy a ton of ideas from others
they tried to bring back the star child lore in the third or 4th edition
Linking it to Tzeentch and the Illuminati
>The lore always was this way then?
Yes
> And it only now gets actually realized?
Only by new gays, usually those who come with an agenda without bothering to read all the lore.
I do agree, what a sad mess
>Valdor is making an army of blanks
hey that was my idea, just send all the blanks into the warp, thats what you do
Dark King is Vashtorr, since Emperor turned it down.
I don't think its something anyone can become, people that knew about it didn't know who it would be and assumed it was Horus.
But the Emperor is the only one that can drink the warp like a milkshake
There's three dark king candidates mentioned in the book.
but is that before or after its revealed to be the Emperor
It's the PoV chapter of Samus who's the Dark King's daemon, it doesn't matter which of the candidates becomes the dark king because it's going to be the same regardless of whether it's Horus or Empra.
It's all explained in this
?feature=shared
No, the Dark King is Encroaching Ruin, while Vashtorr would be Malevolent Artifice.
That's alright, it's not canon.
Remember Konrad Kruze's name is the Dark King
Curze*
Kurzes return is the only dead primarch coming back to life id accept. his death always seemed weird and a copt out more than a fitting end like Ferrus, Horus, Sangy, Alpharius.
It's an Apocalypse Now reference. Just like every other thing about those primarchs. 40k lore was written by ignoramus nerds and is terrible.
>40k lore was written by ignoramus nerds and is terrible.
You mean beautiful. I doubt Priestley ever imagined his throwaway passage about some Horus Heresy would become a best selling series with a shitload of books.
Curze was a demented freak who hated himself and ended up committing suicide to prove some point that only made sense in his broken brain. It's the perfect end to his story.
But what if somehow Kurze returned?
No one's ever really gone....
Amazing how BL lore just gets worse and worse.
I wonder if they will add a God for each of the eight points of the star.
So Emperor is the Dark King, i'm assuming this is a title like the Dark Prince with the Emperors true name being his God name.
Vashtorr wants to become the machine god.
>Vashtorr wants to become the machine god.
But Cawl is the machine god.
>They
You mean Dan Abnett. BL shit has never been particularly relevant to mainline 40k lore.
Horus heresy is still slop, they turned the final duel between the emperor and Horus into a fricking magic the gathering game. The fact this didn’t completely destroy any credibility Horus heresy had within its sloppers is telling
Abnett also writes comics, he knows how to make the cinematic fight just like GW wanted it to be.
that's Simon Spurrier not Abnett who wrote that comic you posted
I know, it's to demonstrate the concept which is exactly the same.
I expected basic comics cringe but that's... kind of beautiful, damn
Frick comics are pretentious
Reminds me of the Meta Baron series.
>the Meta baron jumped in his meta ship to chase his son-enemy
>tearing through the universe into the mirror dimension or some meta shit
>to decide who was superior enough to rape his wife-mother
Makes me wonder which influenced the other, lots of the meta baron art looks ripped right from 30k, or vice versa idk
I'm surprised you know about Metabarons and not that it was based on concept art meant for Jorodowsky's Dune movie
Why would I not know that? I’m just not sure of the timelines on what was inspired by what as far as 40K goes. How old is the Horus heresy? I think there’s even like an adeptus mechanicus in the metabaron universe.
There is, and they are also worshiping a "dragon" in secret.
I mean the two universes are not 1-1 and seem to share more in their joy of ripping of Dune than anything else, but goddamn.
>they turned the final duel between the emperor and Horus into a fricking magic the gathering game.
That was only part of it.
Doesn’t fricking matter, imagine in lord of the rings the witch king pulled out a bey blade and challenged Gandalf as part of their duel in the extended edition. Of course, you being a Horus heresy slopper, probably came at the very concept
Gandalf and the Witch King didn't fight on some extraplanar psychic dimension.
Yeah because that concept is moronic
>dude we're fighting across multiverses so in this battle we're babies fighting over blocks *bong rips* duuuuuuuude
>Yeah because that concept is moronic
Then you just don't like the warp and therefore Warhammer fundamentally.
>final battle happening outside reality
>becomes a pure competition of will
>uses various metaphors to explain that we’re not simply talking about a gun/sword/fist fight.
>two beings/ideas in direct opposition
If anything it’s overdone
no one understand EoE though. Its literally Shinji getting tested by Asuka and failing the test which aborts the singularity.
Same thing happens at the end of thrice upon a time. I could list tons of examples
never heard of a scifi apocalypse being decided by a teenage boy imagining living with his crush, who rejects him and then he kills her and goes insane.
Is that really what you think I meant?
>Silmarillion
>Elf King Finrod Felagund fights Sauron (before he lost his corporeal form)
>Its a magic rap battle
>they turned the final duel between the emperor and Horus into a fricking magic the gathering game
See, that's the problem right here. If they went with Yu-Gi-Oh that whole thing would went down totally different.
If I had a choice between killing Hitler and preventing the Horus Heresy series from happening, I would do the latter.
>Dark King > your fav setting
I bet he did this just so people no longer said 40k is just mid tier at power level, which is actually some very fine trolling.
Dark King just destroys the 40k universe, it's the equivalent of shitting your pants and flipping the table.
i bet they will reveal Curze will become the Dark King somehow, maybe the Emperor will try to channel his power like he did with Guilliman or Stern but inadvertently pass the mantle of the Dark King to his son.
This is what horrified Cruze in his vision.
>it’s a “clueless boomer cries because the year is no longer 1997” episode
>>can just begin apotheosis and turn into a God more powerful than the universe and the Chaos Gods
Considering how utterly he got curbstomped by Horus wielding just a fragment of the power of the big four the Dark King would have just equalized the playing field
It's a curious change they've made.
Originally, the Emperor is unwilling to summon his whole power and ends up badly wounded before finally coming to terms with the fact that Horus is gone and he needs to kill him. Then comes the soul sundering, the Star Child etc.
In the new version the Emperor already accepted that before the fight, rejected the Dark King and sundered his souls to create the Star Child. He then basically wins by trickery. He uses the guise of Loken to taunt Horus into giving up his power to prove that he isn't controlled by Chaos and then strikes the killing blow.
I really wish they had instead done something like the Emperor's pride refused to let him admit he had lost his favorite piece/tool to chaos, and only when he let go of that pride and admitted defeat to chaos could he beat them. Something like the Emperor still believing his dream could be salvaged, that he could still get back the primarchs in order to have his cake and eat it too.
I think the Star Child was also fighting Horus during the showdown. The Dark Emperor goes to Horus, but his power is no longer Anathema because there is no "Order Power" left, he gave it all up into the warp to make the Star Child.
The Star Child was the one that possesses the Custodes, then makes Lokens Guise, then Emperor's Body at the end and Channels it's Anathema power through the Athame into Horus severing the tie between Horus' body and the Warp. "Killing him" but not really, more like casting Horus soul into the warp.
The "Dark" Emperor really doesnt say anything to Horus, only talking to the 4 in a very matter of fact and cold way. But the Custodes and Loken dialogue is full of Emotion and Compassion because it's the Star Child.
He is still anathema in 40k, so no he didn't give it up.
It certainly is a change, the roles have basically been swapped. Instead of a sentimental god being mortally wounded before he sees what must be done, its a sentimental god being convinced to relinquish his mantle so that the killing blow can be struck.
I think it works within the context of the book/the trilogy, it really sells why everyone is so convinced that the emperor is going to die and manages to not make horus look like a chump, but it also sort of makes the emperor less central to everything. Instead of the final choice being his (to kill horus) it becomes Horus's (to die).
You know the cards werent literally cards right? Its the Tarot, the deck of fate, its them trying to shape destiny to thwart the other.
Another thing is that they basically swapped the "core" of the showdown. Originally it was "horus proves there is no good left in him, so the emperor strikes him down". Now its "horus proves that there was still good left in him, allowing the emperor to strike him down", coupled with stuff like horus being unwilling to kill his father it really feels like it was a purposeful inversion, but im not sure what the end goal to "redeeming horus" is.
>"horus proves that there was still good left in him, allowing the emperor to strike him down"
Nope. He does it out of pride like everything else when he realizes that it was true that he was a puppet of the Gods.
A real puppet cant just decide to not be a puppet. If it can, it was never a puppet to begin with.
Semantics
What happened was "Loken" convinced Horus that the Emperor has lied and abused his powers to rise to where he was, and that Horus was a better man than him. He beat him, Horus had crushed the Emperor's head and killed him. It was over, he didn't need the power granted to him by the gods anymore. He needed to be a man to rule over mankind, not a god. A man capable of empathy, not a cold god like the ones that pushed him into war with his father. In a moment of genuine regret for killing his father, seeing what he had done, he realized that Loken was right. The war was over and he beat a man that had stolen the fire of the gods with the help of those very same gods and realized their goals had to have been accomplished, right? The man that crosses them was dead. They didn't need him anymore. He certainly didn't need them.
So he let his power go. In his remorse for his actions, his father, the countless millions dead, he decided he would rule as a fair man. Then he saw a second Loken appear in the room and realized he had been tricked. He panicked, tries to get the power back, and the gods denied him. They held it back and demanded more from him since he had even considered relinquishing it. Then he realized those gods really didn't care. That he was just a other tool to some higher power, but these gods were even more alien and unforgiving than his father. He realized they were petty and equal. He realized The Emperor was right. Before the gods dumped the power back into his body he cried for the emperor to let him die than have the gods take him away again. Then the Emperor granted him the mercy of death.
And if he is a puppet, he shouldn't have been able to let the power go. Because it means he was never a puppet.
he was a good friend
>but im not sure what the end goal to "redeeming horus" is.
To bring him back as a miniature, of course.
He already has like three, jesus christ how many Horuses do we need? Commemorative horus eating pizza? Horus on the toilet? Horus playing MTG with the emperor?
He will be the very last primarch they bring back, and then reboot the game into Age of the Emperor.
>abbadon wins and is about to kill the emperor for reals this time
>suddenly horus teleports in and saves the emperor
kino
no
he got curbstomped after he relinquished the mantle of Dark King by choice. Before that he was obliterating Horus's forces as the forming Dark King. His friends convinced him that if he kept upping his power level he'd destroy everything
Sure, but "beat a bunch of chaos marines and demons" isnt exactly some impossible display of power. The Dark King would have potentially been the 5th chaos god, on par with what horus became, not some new and unimagined level of power.
i dont think you understand the turn of events. The Emperor went to challenge Horus, who had his own magical realm manifest above Terra. The Emperor misjudged how powerful Horus was so he had to tap into the warp to up his power level but in doing so he started to go out of control and absorb too much power. This caused him to start turning into a God and he was so terrifying traitors and daemons alike fled from him, he even accidentally killed his bodyguard and resurrected them as burnt out undead. At this point he was far exceeding Horus and was on the path to most powerful being ever. Until he was convinced to let it go. When he let it go his power was diminished to just normal Emperor levels, still powerful but not unstoppable. Then he went to fight Horus
>and was on the path to most powerful being ever
At best hed just be on par with the big four
>At this point he was far exceeding Horus
Given how badly he got stomped thats unlikely
no, the point of the Dark King is he exceeds all four chaos gods being pure chaos incarnate and no way Horus was equal to one of the four.
also jfc stfu you are just talking in circles you massive moron. He relinquished the power thus did not have the power at that moment he fought Horus.
Learn some fricking English comprehension.
"King" is not a misnomer. The Dark King > the rest of Chaos. It's the king.
He's Anathema because he is their equal/opposite/superior. They fear him. They know he is a god-in-waiting, but they fear what he can become. Hence trying to stop him.
Hes Anathema because hes ex-communicated from the pantheon for rejecting Chaos and making his entire schtick anti-Chaos
>"King" is not a misnomer. The Dark King > the rest of Chaos. It's the king.
Lmfao.
Man what the frick are you people talking about, is this some HH shit?
I never heard of this before either and just looked it up. It is indeed some HH shit. It sounds pretty dumb and adds absolutely nothing interesting or consistent to the setting.
>no one points out the Dark King thing is just like Akira
btw the Dark King isnt the actual title of the new God the Emperor would become, its just a title like Dark Prince.
Thats the Emperors true name subplot.
Dan Abnett did nothing wrong
the Dark King stuff makes the whole Emperor could parlay with the Chaos Gods thing make more sense, they thought of him as one of them or similar to them. Hes anathema because they know he will betray them, even if he becomes a "Chaos" God his domain is the complete ruin of everything even Chaos.
parley*
None of the Primarchs could become a God, they at best can become a Daemon prince, Horus was a suped up champion of Chaos.
Emps is different he doesn't need the Chaos Gods to grant him a boob and can just take warp power for himself, as much as he likes.
boon*
Where the hell did this Samus shit even come from. It's not going to be a thing, they should fricking stop trying to make it a thing.
Nobody actually gives a shit about him, he gets banished without doing shit every time he appears, he butts his head where he isn't wanted and he isn't even interesting at all.
there was a planet with a fake Emperor of mankind on it and Samus that Horus encountered at the beginning of the series.
Its a suspicious parallel to the final fight. As if it was set up to plant the idea in his head to become a traitor because he did it before
There are no gods in 40k.