>A game of this caliber will never exist again because game devs and the gaming public have collectively decided that any sort of inconvenience is a design flaw
>A game of this caliber will never exist again because game devs and the gaming public have collectively decided that any sort of inconvenience is ...
I really hate how "Good Game Design" has just come to mean insulting tutorials and excessive hand-holding.
this but the original Zelda
>Zelda 1
Start out with nothing. Not even a sword. With no one to tell you what to do.
>Breath if the Wild
Tutorial for how to open your menu, jump, climb a ladder, etc before you even see the first glimpse of the game.
Take me back.
Eh with the first Zelda you can rely on the instruction manual, there's no instruction manual for BotW or TotK so it's in-game tutorials
Yeah, the devs never intended to give a tutorial to Zelda 1 at all, good old gaming, that's why copies of the game never came with a manual that you read before actually playing the game, that never happened.
Nta, but his point still has merit because there is nothing in the game forcing you to read the manual. A dumb kid could buy the game secondhand and still 100% the game through simple logic and ingenuity. You are never given that opportunity to learn on your own anymore because modern games bake their instruction manuals into the gameplay.
>simple logic
What's the logic behind "pol's voice hates loud noises = shoot it with a bow" instead of using the flute being their weakness?
lol, tendies always get pissy whenever someone points out how much nu-Zelda treats the player like a baby
>old games have SOVLFVL instruction manuals, you lose, bub!
Take me back...
Everyone in my generation played it on the virtual console though, so why does this matter boomer?
Virtual Console comes with a digital manual thoughbeit.
you are an entire generation of turbohomosexuals
Inteally hate how "good story" doesnt matter and its all about "muh lore scattered around with dogshit writing but """epic""" and """Mature""" totally not edgy backstories for everyone
I too hate soulslop. It's a cancer on the industry
lore > story
If I wanted a story I'd read a fricking book or watch a movie.
I think it was more incongruous to be so difficult while marketing it towards small children. Adults playing a game like this will always be more niche than children, so they made it easier. Not that complicated.
Pikmin isn't even difficult. Plenty of kids were playing the likes of StarCraft and AoE around the same time it came out. A good chunk of the game's target audience possessed demonstrable dandori skill even back then.
Pikmin merely challenged a separate subset of that skill while also engaging in direct psychological attacks against the player, which all worked extremely well.
>pikmin are designed to be cute to bait out poor decisions and bad play from people who can't still their emotions and play logically
>pikmin deaths are designed to be more demoralizing than almost any other RTS by, again, appealing to emotion
>time limit baits poor play by instilling a false sense of urgency and fooling you into rushing into things with large groups and minimal knowledge; 90% of situations in all pikmin games are invalidated just by performing basic reconnaissance solo or with a small group and noting what awaits you before going in with a full squad
>pikmins' dumb and helpless AI emphasized the weight of the player's decisions, making successes and failures feel larger than they really were
Mechanically it is inferior to any real RTS of its time, but it seems that there are plenty of lessons those real RTS could take from Pikmin's simplified approach to the genre.
Pikmin 1 sucks, 2 is the best
Man Pikmin 1 is designed to be beaten by a kid, the day limit is not so different from Mario's time limit
Also even if Pikmin 2 was hard, what are you even talking about there's plenty new hard games coming out every so often
*Pikmin 1
Pikmin AI being too dumb to follow the pathing isn't a good thing, sorry.
>game: 🙂
>game, time limit: 🙁
Anyone else extremely disappointed by 4 and think 3 was the best?
3's obvious biggest flaw was being short as frick, but it was also very fun having 3 captains with the "go here" command multitasking all at once, and the mission mode was very fun and replayable, spent more time in that then some other pikmin games campaign.
Meanwhile 4 was okay, but it just felt like grinding with nothing feeling urgent. it took away options for you either permantnetly, or made you wait until late into the campaign to unlock features other games had from the start. Dandori battles were a huge let down from mission mode
>Anyone else extremely disappointed by 4 and think 3 was the best?
Nope. 3's hard carried by mission mode and that's it. 4 is a better game overall, as are 2 and 1.
All 3 games are good, 3's just the least good because of how easy it is.
I should have screen capped that post detailing all the ways pikmin 3 is flawed, it seriously summed it up well.
I was autistic and went back to find it
>melee-attacks are near useless
Hey it could be worse. They could've put in an ability to enhance your punching only it STILL does nothing
>As such, areas are designed around linearity, leading to them being overall less interesting in terms of design compared to 1 and 2
The points above are already flawed, but this one is especially silly. Imagine looking at pic related and going "linear".
It's not because you have steps to reach a new area that it's linear, that's nonsense. And the game has a main quest and the fruit collect, just like collecting shits in the other games. Where's the linearity in this progression? By that logic Pikmin 1 is just as linear, you need almost every ship part to get a real ending and you don't have access to all the areas from the start.
It's annoying how on Ganker you can make a list of absurdly false points and people just eat it up because they're too lazy to actually think about a wall of text. Is the Pikmin fanbase so bored they have to invent fake flaws to keep the discussion going? Are you envious of the Metroid fanbase?
Also, 4>3>1>2.
Looking at it and playing it are very different things. It's basically a straight line cause you have to build the bridges and you have no water pikmin, and after you do that you have basically one lane with a fork at the top, and then some random side rooms with dead ends with a single fruit.
Oh yeah, being extremely easy didn't help the first playthrough, but it was the funnest to speedrun and I kept coming back over and over. The campaign being easy didn't matter when the clock was the main obstacle.
3 is a very casual and relaxed game. 4 holds your hand and gives you way more tools than you need to effortlessly bulldoze every enemy. You get to choose how you want to gimp yourself. Pikmin1 is only hard if you were a literal baby or you have the intelligence of a modern game journalist. Pikmin 2 wasn't hard, the caves were just obnoxious due to the RNG of them being procedurally generated.
Do we have a hard mode for 4 yet?
You have to pretty much create a hard mode for yourself by not upgrading the dog or using bomb rocks and mines.
Did we play the same game? Yes 4 is probably easier difficulty wise but 3 does not shut up about what it wants you to do. At least in 4 after Sun Speckled Terrace the game eases off the handholding and lets you play the game.
>Did we play the same game?
What exactly are you disagreeing with? 4 is infinitely easier than 3. You can solo every enemy and boss without the dog or pikmin if you want to.
My biggest gripe with 3 is the pacing. By the time you have every Pikmin, the game is almost over.
No. 3 captains was a mistake, trying to divide a squad of 100 pikmin of 5 types becomes a clusterfrick. Pikmin 2 (the best game by a country mile) has a perfect balance with 2 captains. And those two captains are also the most interesting characters in the franchise. This game lets you flex your dandori with overworld treasure, with fun random maps underground. People who disliked this formula are fricking braindead.
Pikmin 4 was a fine game. It's way too easy, and i'm sad it didn't have a snow level, but it was a step in the right direction after 3 (the worst game).
>i'm sad it didn't have a snow level
I was also mad about this. All the levels blended together cause they all had the same general atmosphere outside the house and beach. Giant's Hearth would have been a kino fall level.
The caves were a bunch of nonsense and time wasting. There’s rarely a fun layout.
>Pikmin 2 (the best game by a country mile)
Stopped reading right here
Loved the first Pikmin as a kid, but never tried the others. The areas seemed less appealing and I enjoy the simplicity of having just three Pikmin types.
People are idiots
I feel like a time limit for 2 and 4 wouldn't have worked due to them being longer and more complicated
The debt could have accumulated interest in 2, with taking too long meaning having to get every treasure to pay it off. That could've been interesting.
Yeah, that's a good way to do it
The post game in 2 could have had a timelimit for rescuing louie.
Pikmin
Dead Rising
Majora's Mask
Even FromSoft is gradually phasing out multiplayer features
I gave up on pikman when day 8 ended and I missed a part and realized that I wasn't going to 100% the game
>day 8 ended and I missed a part and realized that I wasn't going to 100% the game
you had 22 days left, why not just... get the part the next day?
or if you didn't get any parts that day, there's an option in the pause menu to go back to your previous save and retry
The game implied two things.
1. If you miss a day you can't catch up due to the difficulty of the game
2. You won't get the true ending if you miss a day.
I didn't see the point in soldiering on so I booted up WW.
>t.
Buttmad
Just get the loser ending and play it again to get the better one.
>You won't get the true ending if you miss a day.
You just need all 30 parts before day 30 ends moron there is no "missing a day".
GameCube was fricking great, probably their best system alongside the SNES.
I will never not be mad over how much shit the gamecube got during that gen cause....it looked funny? Lol purple lunch box? No 3rd party? It's got some of the best first party nintendo games ever made and had multiplayer as good as the xbox with halo but better because halo 1/2 was all the xbox had
Rogue Squadron seriously needs porting.
Star Wars has been revitalized (so to speak), it's time to port it.
>Star Wars has been revitalized
What. No it hasn't. It's deader than disco.
I'm not talking quality, I'm talking about it being in the public eye/interest again. There's new Star Wars stuff every quarter now. It's a good time to actually release something GOOD, dontcha think?
Modern Star Wars shit is FOTM. The new things come out and people talk about it for a few weeks and go back to not caring. And it won't last forever because they're running out of legacy characters to butcher. It should be pretty telling they have to resort to characters like Ahsoka and Thrawn that the average normie star wars fan won't know shit about.
Also Luigis Mansion and wind waker were kino as a kid
When Nintendo gets backed into a corner with a shit-selling console, that’s when they make their best games.
>GameCube
>Switch
>best Nintendo games
Anon, please.
They sure made their best Star Fox games on Gamecube and Wii U
How fricking DARE you remind me of what happened to Star Fox.
Assault isn't nearly as good as 64, but it's also a mile ahead of Zero
>Star Fox
The problem with Pikmin 1's time limit is the fact of how forced it is. Time limits aren't a bad mechanic but it has to be done sparingly because the fact is majority of people do not like getting told they have X amount of time to complete a task. With Pikmin 1 this is made even worse because the game encourages exploration which time limit and exploration are pretty much the exact opposites of each other. Yes Pikmin 1 gives you way more than enough time but coming in to a new game and has a kid you don't actually know how difficult and punishing the game is going to be so having even genousr limitations are still discouraging. It also majorly doesn't help that Pikmin is an RTS game which most console players aren't used to, and it's a raddically different RTS game so even RTS players are coming in genrally blind. I think this is why most consider 2 the best Pikmin, the time limit is only for the over world where the most important aspect of getting more pikmin and resources happens, meanwhile dungeons get rid of the time limit in exchange for challenge since you can't get renforments without risking starting over and losing everything
It's literally 1 part per day, and not even that cause some of them are optional.
That makes zero sense. You are only required to get one part per day and the maps are not even big. If you're actually exploring, then you're going to run into multiple parts per day. I don't see how you can be exploring the maps and not finding parts that are everywhere and blatantly obvious. If any of this is difficult for a kid, then they're not old enough to be playing it and should be playing those shovelware games for toddlers instead.
Yeah these new games should just get off your lawn huh grandpa lmao
2 > 4 > 1 >> 3
But Pikmin 4 is the best Pikmin game.
Pikmin 4 > Pikmin 1 > Pikmin 2 > Pikmin 3
I like Pikmin, but it's hard not to see its shortcomings (terrible pathfinding, mediocre combat, only 3 levels)
Pikmin 4 is my first Pikmin game, and it's full of soul. It's pretty easy though, tho I suppose the challenge isn't supposed to be whether you make it at all, it's whether you can make it without losing a single Pikmin.
10 hours in and it's one of the most creative games I've played. Might pick up Pikmin 1 afterwards if the game continues being this good.
Only thing that's weird is that i can only play it in short bursts for some reason.
I started with 3. Some of the QoL changes from that game made for a few frustrations jumping to 1. However 1 was still so good that I immediately did another playthrough of it. It's one of my favorite games.
It really is a perfect game. Replaying it now for the first time in over 2 decades
Pikmin was never good
it was a revolutionary RTS game for multiple reasons. Mainly being the unique and simultaneously simple but genius controls and wholly cohesive mechanics + world that not only made an RTS actually work on consoles (something veteran RTS devs failed over and over again at), but made one that was actually great and felt good to play.
A mouse has a million times the speed and precision of Pikmin's finicky crosshair. What are you even smoking? BTW, RTS developers avoided consoles because making pathfinding and logic for dozens of NPC's is notoriously taxing on CPU and memory. Pikmin pushed the power of the Gamecube by having 100 units, but it still streamlined plenty of aspects to fit around more of an adventure game (that and the game admittedly has pretty dodgy AI)
1 was good, every other game following it has huge failings
2 was an honest experimentation that should have been refined with 3.
But instead, shiggy cashed out and casualized it because he needs another Mario IP so he can retire as a kami-sama.
Wrong.
Wrong.
Interesting. Last time I check a Pikmin game won Game of the Decade three decades in a row.
?
would
I'm really sick of reboots. It's really not that hard to keep the story consistent.
>they downgraded the vore animations for the crawmad and dumple in the time since 2
>jellyfloats return but lessers can't even kill pikmin anymore and they don't shrink and disappear when the greaters finally digest them
>game devs and the gaming public have collectively decided that any sort of inconvenience is a design flaw
This pisses me off to no end because it really limits the scope of what challenge in a game is allowed to mean and by extension what games are even allowed to be.
Is the "Removal of time limit was bad" the "Skeletron is too hard" of pikmin threads? Everyone already knows it's easy and half the posts in these threads will confirm this.
I looked up a route to get 5 parts in one day in Forest of Hope and it's still fricking hard as frick man. Like I know exactly what to do but my execution is not there at all.
honestly, pikmin 4 came pretty close. All they needed to do was completely cut out all tutorial, hand-holdy bullshit, get rid of the base and not lock commanding pikmin behind the fricking endgame.
any chance some autist will make a mod for 4 to tweak it to perfection?
Considering that Pikmin 2 which came out 2 years later had already ironed out many of the mechanical issues that purists of 1 laud as SOUL the devs clearly viewed them as flaws as well.