About to play pic related, always thought it was a half assed sequel but I'm reading it was a lot more than that in retrospect. Thoughts, lads?
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About to play pic related, always thought it was a half assed sequel but I'm reading it was a lot more than that in retrospect.
the gameplay slaps, the characters are fire, and big sister fine as a mug bruh bruh, no cap ong
>save little sister
>still get attacked being forced to use all your ammo
I just harvested all the little c**ts; if the game is going to force me into a binary moral choice system and give me no in-game benefit for one of those choices, then its a shit system
I can go watch the other ending on youtube
>harvested them
>no in-game benefits
m8 you missed out on like 50% of the total adam. both BS1&2 are hilariously stupid with the morality as being "good" wins out within the first three hours
Why do they attack me though? Literally no real reason except it's poorly designed
You took them away from the "commune", Lamb all but says they might as well be dead to the collective she's aiming for. Hell she tries to off her daughterjesus at the end of the game, BS games aren't very subtle
The trouble is that most Americans aren’t smart enough to make politically incisive commentary.
This worked out OK in 1 because they were working with enough classic American tropes that the hollow politics didn’t have to bear much of the load. They had bombastic industrialists and charismatic gangsters and wacko artists and deranged plastic surgeons and their insane patients. All very rich and familiar material to build the world on.
Then there’s 2, and all that stuff is sanded off, and there’s just Lamb, a European socialist as understood by Americans, which means she’s a Joseph Stalin wartime communism allegory, and it’s just gibberish.
It kind of is a half-assed sequel, but it's the best Bioshock game.
These people are all wrong and moronic. Bioshock 1 is objectively the more stronger narratively focused game. The story in BioShock 2 is not only contrived but the Andrew Ryan wannabe doesn't even actually live up to her ideals. There's nothing interesting about playing as a big hunking moron looking for your surrogate daughter especially when infinite not only did that but better.
The true objective take is BioShock
1>Infinite>2. Two has the strongest gameplay but other than that it is consequential and could easily be cut out. This is an objective and unironic take. Cope and fricking seethe
bioshock is literally a shit game sorry to burst your bubble
zoom zoom
amen, the 2>1>3 meme posted daily on this board just shows how much the average Gankeraggot likes literal shit.
It really makes no fricking sense to me I genuinely did like playing all three of the games even infinite but I'm not going to pretend like two with its hackney design and retread of one with a blatantly worst story and uninteresting characters is somehow better than one. One was iconic for a reason, I'd give more credit to two if it was in the middle of rapture's rebuilding with some different radical idea and we're playing as a relic of an old ideology. Think that would not only be better thematically but it would be more interesting story-wise too you could even keep the same big daddy daughter stick
A game to me has a lot more to do with the overall components than strictly the gameplay. Fallout 4 has pretty tight gameplay but it's boring as shit
I'll agree with you there, but the whole meme that "two is somehow better than one" is fricking stupid.
Sophia lamb was an ideologue and her ideology wasn't even represented properly within the game. Andrew Ryan for as dumb and hypocritical as he is actually had a value system that was properly represented with the building and then deconstruction of rapture lamb literally stands and means for nothing.
I know you're dumb frick zoomers love YouTube video essay so here. https://youtu.be/b81nGs7J3y0
Now you can focus on me linking the video and chimping out about that instead of actually responding to anything proper.
If we're focusing on the gameplay then no one is inferior to two but a game to me encompasses more than just gameplay strictly. That's also a dumb frick way of approaching the narrative and theme of Bioshock 1. This just shows you are not actually intelligent enough for the series
Also I don't give a frick about any spelling errors or autocorrect since I'm using voice to type. If you can't get the gist of what I'm saying then ignore it
This post isn't fricking coherent
Just stop dude
What part isn't coherent you zoomer coomer
>OOOMEROOMEROOMER
Christ
>the worst game has the strongest GAMEplay
This is all objective truth but it’s still worth playing for the gameplay and visuals, drilling splicers is Biokino
This. The game picks up a lot when you unlock the drill charge. I just wish it wasn't so awkward to do.
>The story in BioShock 2 is not only contrived
No more contrived than the original is.
>the Andrew Ryan wannabe doesn't even actually live up to her ideals.
I like how you sort of admit Lamb was very much like Ryan, your hero, here. The entire point of Bioshock 2 is that Ryan was also a hypocritical piece of shit, which is why Ken Levine HATES the sequel. It undermined his narrative that Ryan was a good israelite who had escaped surface world goy oppression with his city which was a paradise for everyone. He was not good and his narratives never were true.
>Cope and fricking seethe
This is the language of a dumb child, no wonder 1 impressed you so.
>the more stronger narratively focused game
Doesn't mean it's the better game. And Bioshock's narrative isn't even that strong, it takes the "Dudes shouting their philosophies at you over walkie-talkie" meme a lot farther than the other two
Also say "objective" more, that'll make you right dumbass
The villain of the first game is also a one-dimensional caricature and the whole protagonist twist is incredibly stupid no matter how iconic people find the golf club scene.
>infinite better than anything
Get out of here, Ken.
The only good thing about bio1s story is that twist, otherwise they are both ok
>Lacking any subtlety with shilling Infinite
>In fricking comparison to 2 of all things
Ken, go read out some more Friendship is Magic fanfiction.
It's really funny watching all this revisionist history around Bioshock 2 I've had these conversations before in these kind of threads that have hit limit. Even ones that I've made. Almost everybody I talk to recognize this that two's biggest strength relies strictly on its improved gameplay. But they all sidestep the uninspired plot the uninteresting side characters Sophia lamb is a character the retread of rapture some of the brain dead mechanics because "subversion" which was executed better in both infinite and one.
The thing is, every Bioshock game has a pretty bad plot when you get down to it. They have good settings, and some "fun" characters, and people mistake that for a good plot, which it isn't. Infinite has an outright terrible plot.
I don't think Bioshock 1 has a terrible plot it was pretty straightforward. It was excellently serviceable and executable. Two just thematically fell apart for me. Infinite is a bit of a cobblestone and while potholes are a plenty I found it a lot more endearing I guess cuz it's still managed to make somewhat sense
I just find Bioshock 1 really obvious. You have Andrew Ryan, who isn't even so much a character as just an outright caricature of Ayn Rand. Is that good writing, really? Or is it kind of lame?
I could write a Bioshock game. What if there was this guy called Rudolf Hatler, and he was just absolutely mad, and wanted to build a city that ran on the tears of persecuted minorities? What if he was such a believer in racial purity, that he insisted all of his people be genetically reassigned until they were all bleach blonde Aryan supermen? There you go, that's Bioshock 4.
I don't think he's a simple lame brained caricature of Ayn Rand, after all he's done a couple of things that would definitely go against her own philosophy. But I would argue his impact more ties into the underlying theme of the game and a meta commentary on games in general.
The goal of Bioshock isn't just to take a wacky character and give them extreme zealous beliefs and make them live in a world or create a world that's reflective of that. You use them as a vehicle to discuss a broader more underlying subject
>mad about My Little Pony
So you are a bigot as well as a moron
This isn't your average everyday bait...
This is... advanced bait
>I dont care about gameplay, I need my pseud story with a twist
and here we can see the mentality that has ruined gaming
I said gameplay isn't the only thing that should matter when it comes to crafting a video game. For me a video game is the multitude of components that go into it, music, mechanics, gameplay, story etc. If you have a game with tight gameplay but nothing interesting then what the frick are you playing it for.
>then what the frick are you playing it for
For the GAMEplay. It's a GAME.
And everything you said about 1vs2 is wrong by the way, but I dont want to engage in discussion with someone who doesnt understand anything.
In that case people would love to frick out of fallout 4 and no one would be complaining about it since it has pretty damn tight gameplay. And contrastly games with shit gameplay like Silent Hill 2 would be undervalued. Fact of the matter is games themselves would never transcend if gameplay was there flower in the hat. With your mentality you're basically asking for call of duty to be en massly repeated for ever and ever
Sure buddy throw baseless conjecture for what you think, unlike you I'm significantly older and I actually remember those games when they came out
Fallout 4 gameplay was trash though. What the frick are you talking about?
It is an RPG game that gutted and streamlined the RPG gameplay to absolute shit.
>Andrew Ryan wannabe doesn't even actually live up to her ideals
That's the point you idiot, neither did Ryan.
That's literally not the point you idiot. Andrew through his own hypocrisy failed but he very much constructed a Utopia with his ideal. Sophia lamb says that she represents something but we don't see that really demonstrated well anywhere. She's a LARPer. There's a YouTube in this thread somewhere that demonstrates the talking point I'm going over, it should satisfy your smooth zoom zoom brain
>Bioshock 1 is objectively the more stronger narratively focused game.
Okay, but I play video games for the gameplay.
If the gameplay is the only thing you care about in your video games then that's stupid. Games are much more than that. It's fine if the narrative takes back seat to focus strictly on cathartic gameplay like DOOM but in a game like Bioshock where narratives and story telling is what makes up a big part of those games it's bad to not do anything with them.
>If the gameplay is the only thing you care about in your video games then that's stupid.
You have five seconds to get out of my sight.
Gameplay can only carry a game so far. No one continuously gives a frick about Doom eternal because Doom 2016 already did everything DOOM eternal did. Meanwhile just cause 2,3 and arguably 4 at least built upon itself with more interesting mechanics and ways of traversal so even though the story was planned the gameplay was continuously innovating. Although arguably I think it would have been much more interesting with some character development
A better way to think of it is like a cake. Gameplay is the cake without anything else added to it. That on its own well good is extremely bland. Things like story music art the extra shit are the toppings and lettering and all the cool stuff you can do with it one is obviously a massive prerequisite for the other the gameplay needs to be strong enough to tie everything to something interesting since it is a game and not a movie
You really should look up or read a character study that compares Andrew Ryan and Sophia lamb and see why Andrew works where she doesn't
That's a wrong analogy because a game can have shit gameplay and be carried by everything else, see: Planescape Torment and Nier
That's not a wrong analogy it still works. The cake could be bland even poorly tasting but the frosting texture and flavor makes it good.
well yeah every analogy works if you stretch it like a pornstar's butthole
I've had a cakes before where the actual cake itself is kind of gross specifically strawberry ice cream cake but the frosting was homemade and it tasted fricking amazing so I was able to get through it. I don't think it's that much of a stretch
>you really should look up my argument for me
compelling argument, but I'm going to go ahead and parrot Lamb is objectively a better villain than Ryan
I mean there was literally a video sourced in here explaining everything along with the argument I gave but if you want to parrot something moronic then continue to do so Gankerirgin
>Lamb is objectively a better villain than Ryan
Thank God I didn't fall for this pathetic and obviously wrong contrarian take.
>You really should look up or read a character study that compares Andrew Ryan and Sophia lamb and see why Andrew works where she doesn't
I don't need to, thanks. I trust my own judgement. You keep alluding to this outside world apart from vidya where validation comes from, and it doesn't work like that for me.
You're arguing specifically in a thread where we're arguing the merits of whether or not Andrew Ryan and Sophia lamb are better or worse than each other. If your mind is already made up then why are you participating? If you trust your own judgment then you really shouldn't be engaging. I trust my judgment because not only have I been able to back up everything I've been saying but I've even cited a source describing in more accurate detail what I'm saying.
>I've watched a youtube video that corroborates my opinion, you see.
Ok?
Okay so you literally just didn't read anything I said.
I didn't just say that I cited a YouTube video I also actually wrote out my own reasoning. And you completely sidestep the question as to why you're in here. There's no need to reply to you any further
No, you're just being nonsensical and it's kinda funny.
>If your mind is already made up then why are you participating?
Why are you, what?
>If you trust your own judgment then you really shouldn't be engaging.
"If you arrived at your opinion on your own, stop posting." ???
>I trust my judgment because not only have I been able to back up everything I've been saying but I've even cited a source describing in more accurate detail what I'm saying.
"I've watched a youtube video, which gives me a license to post."
I'm not I elaborated as to why I thought Andrew Ryan was a better villain and I included a YouTube video as a extra source that isn't necessary or detracts away from what I'm saying but I already predicted that people would harp on that because it was in there so I decided to post it regardless
I'm actually responding to people's challenges as to why Andrew is worse you seemingly haven't done so and just keep reasserting that Sophia lamb is better because of reasons you explicitly said that you were just going to keep parroting that Sophia is better so then what's the point of chatting with you?
>blatant mistruth
like pottery
Best game in the trilogy in my honest opinion.
1's gameplay is fine but isn't fun to replay. 2 being more action-focused with a better range of enemies makes it something that's always fun to return to.
Its main flaw is how short the main story is, a total of five fricking levels outside of the tutorial. But I really like how it makes you switch between wandering around and setting up defensive positions here and there to fight waves of enemies and Big Daddies.
It's very straightforward storywise but Lamb is a fun counterpart to Ryan and learning about her only adds to his character
The only reason 1's gameplay isn't as slick is cause the combat wheel is missing. You need what, 16 buttons for all guns and powers? 20? Keeping the most used stuff on the keyboard and the situational stuff on the wheel would be a massive improvement on combat flow.
That and only having a plasmid or gun out at any time. And hacking I guess even if I kinda like the tube puzzles myself.
The best thing Bioshock 2 did was turn Adam gathering into a tower defence mini game, which meant you suddenly had a use for all of those defensive plasmids.
It's a good time. The voxophones or whatever they're called aren't nearly as interesting as the first game's, and the characters aren't as memorable, but the combat is funner than the first and it's cool to see rapture in a crumbling state of complete disrepair.
It curbstomps the living frick out of Infinite, I'll say that much.
Better gameplay than 1 for sure. Story is debatable
Make sure to play Minerva's Den DLC.
Honestly, people just like Bioshock 2 because of Minerva's den DLC and it's not even that good. It just shows that people will eat up a Fight Club twist every single time no matter how overdone it is. Bioshock 1 is the better game.
The twist in the original game makes no sense at all in comparison though.
its better than the original, stop reading opinions online
Best gameplay in the series. If you want a good story go read a book
2 is objectively superior in every way to 1. It has better characters, a better narrative, and overall a more coherent design
>t.moron
I'm right you're wrong. Simple as.
non argument
This. And funnily enough it also has a way better daughter character than Shiftinite, despite Shitfinite desperately trying to make her likeable.
Eleanor literally is gone for 90% of the game you are moronic
While Elizabeth is bad for 90% of the game.
Explain what actually makes Elizabeth a bad character to you
Explain what makes her a good character.
Annoyingly chipper. She's written as a character they really want you to like, which makes me not like her.
>I’m naturally inclined to contrarianism
Kek thread over
It's Disney princess syndrome. Her character is that she's pleasant in an annoyingly shallow way. Sorry if I'm not spellbound by that.
I always thought it was odd she immediately went from life or death escape from the tower she had been in all her life to dancing with total strangers.
It was odd she wasn't more awkward. And also how she interacts with the PC, she rebounds with him so much considering her freak out about murdering people and then just stops caring about it.
At the very least she is passionate and engaging. Even if her actions and reactions don't always make sense she has some really strong character moments that help you relate and want to protect her. Even if she can be a fool at times.
Oh yeah and also I want to have sex with her. Not exactly anything to do with her character but i'm a simple man.
>she has some really strong character moments
Name one. All her reactions are forced as frick disney princess tier crap. And she doesnt act like someone who has been isolated for their whole life.
>Oh yeah and also I want to have sex with her
What a surprise, thats her only legacy. Notice how barely anyone wants sex with Eleanor because they do actually care about her more as a daughter character.
I'd argue the immediate tear down and immense disgust of Booker is a pretty good one. That moment when she's singing in the cellar and tosses the apple to the kid. The whole Tower introduction as well. So is your argument that it would have been better if she was a gormless autistic and then became more sociable as you were killing people throughout the game?
No one gives a frick about Eleanor because they don't remember BioShock 2 nor her. It's amazing your level of autistic attachment to this literally nothing character
>That moment when she's singing in the cellar and tosses the apple to the kid.
This is exactly what I mean. People latch on to 100% scripted, forced cutscenes as something special. That whole thing felt incredibly forced.
>please please like Elizabeth, she is kind and can sing
No.
And thats the difference between Eleanor and Elizabeth. First of all its funny that Levine literally stole the idea from B2.
But besides that, it's hilarious to me that Infinite throws all these cutesy cutscenes at you in attempt to make you like Elizabeth, while in Bioshock 2 you have very little contact with Eleanor until the lategame, yet it comes across as way more real. You learn about yourself, you learn about her, how her childhood was robbed and how her crazy mother wants to transform her into a monster basically. She is not some literal demi-god like Elizabeth. And by the end you just want to save her from being controlled by her mother and from the crazies in Rapture.
The whole story is individualism being destroyed to serve "the greater good" and the BTFOing of that in the end is kino.
>yet it comes across as way more real.
No it doesn’t, you literally projected all of it, because the aesthetic and mere implication of a daddy daughter relationship (that did not actually have any substance) happened to hit you at the right angle
Nah, most people here feel that way, not just me.
The story has a way smaller scope and I think that's one of the reasons why it works better. Shitposting aside, it is hard to explain why point by point because I have not played the game for some time. But basically the themes of the game, the characters and their interactions cohesively come together to make me sympathize with the characters.
If Infinite would have dropped the dimension hopping and had focused more on the characters it might have worked better. I really wanted to like it, but it simply is not good.
Maybe the people who unironically think BioShock 2 is the greatest game ever delivered but no even in the majority of the Bioshock fan base you're not going to find that opinion seriously echoed anywhere.
The story is minuscule and only the main thread of you finding Eleanor is really satisfactory. It's interesting that your take away mostly from nostalgic memory when none of the things you're saying add up with the literal themes or elements of the game. A simple father daughter recovery story with nonexistent characterization from your self insert and a one note character for a daughter.
As far as the execution of themes and characters infinite does a way better job
>people who unironically think BioShock 2 is the greatest game ever
It's not. It's the best Bioshock game. Bioshock is like a 6/10 franchise, on the whole.
It's ultimately three games riding on the back of of System Shock, and the steampunk fad, and a bunch of 7th gen memes about morality systems and pretending shallow action games are actually meaningful artistic statements. They're not that good.
Are these Eleanor fans in the room with you right now anon?
In the thread you mean. And yeah, I'd say there is at least one here
but if you search the archived B2 threads there's tons of them
I just said she was cuter, which she is.
>if you search the archived B2 threads
I’ll find you writing more essays about a non-character? I’m good
>fears of being proven wrong
now THIS is copium lmao
I mean I listed other examples but because it's scripted doesn't mean it's not characterization. Even her reactions to the environment if you look at her are dynamic. She's always showing some sort of emotion whether it be happiness concerned fear disgust. If you play the game you can constantly look at her face and see them. Including the timeline where you guys get swapped around and she abandons all hope. The amount of relief she gets when you find her and her consolation of songbird.
I don't really care that you like or don't like Elizabeth but what's complete bullshit is that Eleanor somehow is a better written character when she's literally not. She's consistently the same but eleven nice character who attaches to you and doesn't change from that entire 10-year progression. Also who the frick said Elizabeth was a demigod? Those things you listed about Eleanor that you like are better represented in Elizabeth fact for fact
The same and narrative and story overall is just some loosely tied things together to finally sink the shitty sequel that it was. For the love of God stop being so fricking delusional
I would argue your argument for Eleanor having more character would be more ironclad if we got some serious I don't know backstory exposition we saw the wrestling of her ideals, observing her monumental mental struggle to remain pure and full of care but I don't think there was really any of that or at least enough of it. It didn't really focus on that too much
I dont even claim that Eleanor has more character or that it's way more fleshed out than Elizabeth. I think Bioshock 2 manages to achieve more with having objectively less cutscenes/moments and I think that fact by itself is hilarious.
It's not the greatest game ever, it's simply the greatest Bioshock game. Honestly I dont even care about the 1 vs 2 argument, because in my mind both are great and are meant to be played together. And Minerva's Den is a nice conclusion to it all.
The mainstream Bioshock fanbase are drooling reddit pseudointellectuals who judge a game by how many plot twists it has. I have literally witnessed people not liking 2 specifically because they were waiting for le epic twist, that never came.
>Bioshock 2 manages to achieve more
But it didn’t, Elizabeth is beloved and the experience of her story is remembered more than any other Bioshock game, while even the BS2 defenders in this thread are more likely to say “I don’t remember anything but the drill but that was cool” than they are to gush about the relationship they imagined having with a cardboard cutout of a goth e-girlta.
Anyways this is all a moot point, you’ve literally admitted to disliking infinite because of your inherent contrarianism and aversion to sincerity, homosexual
Elizabeth's a fricking meme. They desperately wanted her to be a beloved character, but ultimately people just wanted to frick her.
Coping
Seething
Coping
Coping and seething
My god the BS2 gays are incredible. Nobody has a problem with saying the gameplay is fun, so the contrarians have to find a dumber reason to like it, and they land on Eleanor, a character literally 10% of BS2 players remember. Just incredible.
It's mostly that you're actually trying to argue Bioshock Infinite isn't a steaming pile of shit.
Elizabeths entire character doesnt make any fricking sense, and her role in the story itself might as well be one giant mcguffin.
Eleanor might have been barebones but that doesnt magically make Elizabeth any better.
OR even worse, make Infinites story make sense in the first place.
>Elizabeth is beloved and the experience of her story is remembered more
Thats not really quantifiable, but also irrelevant if true. Infinite came out years later when gaming blew up more than ever and for most people Infinite was their first or only Bioshock game.
kek funny to see that 2 other people shit on you too while I wrote this post
I disagree I don't think it nearly capitalizes or flushes out any sort of character growth whatsoever in any of the characters in two. I think it's incredibly bare Bones for what it's offering and I think you're highly worshiping it in comparison to infinite due to selection bias
We can criticize the majority of the Bioshock fan base but I think even astute critics who are familiar and very well studied with the franchise aired a lot of the same points that I have and have conclusive evidence to back it up. One of the biggest complaints I remember people saying is that it felt like too much of a retread of one
That's not really true either the porn was going to be a natural side effect people genuinely grew and attracted themselves to Elizabeth because of the father daughter relationship including myself
I disagree I think they managed to do enough interesting things to tie themselves away from system shock 2. Bioshock one alone at least deserves the credit for its contribution to gaming as a whole
>it felt like too much of a retread of one
That's a compliment honestly. I dont understand the constant need to change everything that is not broken. One was great, two was mostly the same with some improvements, and that's a good thing.
Infinite should have been its own game instead of plagiarizing from one.
MONUMENTAL cope, the best in the thread so far thank you.
>I like 2 because other people like Infinite
And thank you for continuing to tell on yourself, lmao
I like 2 because it's the best one. It's the best one because 1 is overrated, and 3 is outright bad. What don't you get?
1 is an 8, 2 is a 6, but because people call 1 a 10, you call it a 6 and 2 an 8. You are an absurd person, 2gay
If 1 is an 8, how is 2, which is the same as 1 but with improved gameplay, somehow a lesser game?
Because the gameplay improvements were still pretty marginal and a big part of being an 8 was the world building. 2 plagiarizes way more than in adds and doesn’t really justify reusing the setting when it adds so few cool locations. The big open town area is basically the only memorable one, everything else feels procedurally generated from the most generic areas of 1, it’s a dull slog most of the time, and you just keep yourself occupied with the drill.
Infinite added WAY more to rapture with its DLC than 2 did in its whole runtime, it’s honestly pretty embarrassing for the 2 crew to have shown so little imagination.
>2 plagiarizes way more than in adds
OH NO NO NO he talks about plagiarism while praising infinite, top kek. maybe you also want to talk about what Infinite removed?
And that DLC was absolute trash that retroactively ruins Bioshock
>
Because the sequel isn't supposed to meander in the pool of the original a sequel to anything is usually supposed to elevate. Use your building blocks to create a new interesting story with more themes and different mechanical gameplay loops. Otherwise you have no business making a sequel.
That's an acceptance of stagnation and loss of innovation if you're more of the same you're nothing at all.
Are we going to act like Bioshock 1 didn't contribute a substantial amount of legitimacy to the argument of video games being profound and a great tool as a narrative device?
>more themes and different mechanical gameplay loops
It literally did that. Better gameplay, different themes and story, while building on the original.
And the whole notion that sequel "has to" do specifically what you said is false.
You don't know what the meaning of a retread is then. Bioshock 2 has a character extremely similar with Ryan with less characterization, a overly similar looking map layout due to it being the same kind of setting as one, with the same kind of weird characters. Call of duty games are also ever changing with their themes story and characters yet they suffer from the same problems. There's absolutely nothing or stand out from them. I think the worst example I can think of this in is Bayonetta 2. This place together came playing cut since from Bayonetta one and two and you wouldn't even be able to tell because it's copy paste with the exception of changing a few things. It seems like more of the same is satisfactory and when it comes to sequels for you and if that's the case you are actively promoting a worse industry.
Because then companies and developers don't have to try. I can make a game practically the same so long as I rename a character and give them a different motivation. That's lazy
I remember people saying that is a good game just not a good fallout game because the dialogue and the writing was atrocious. As far as the open world and shooting people complemented that
The point that I was getting at is that a game can have excellent gameplay but if everything around it is planned and boring then a good game it doesn't make. That is my philosophy
>its contribution to gaming as a whole
That would be what, exactly?
Nobody REMEMBERS Eleanor because she is a picture of a diving helmet with “this is your daughter, you love her” written on it.
When she tells Booker she'd rather have him kill her then be taken. The game has a lot of flaws but her interactions with the world had a lot of time put into them. She's very interactive, which is something I appreciated.
Oh and i'd frick Elanor silly too. Wish we got more of her in B2. That sequence in the tunnel with the explosives was a great "oh frick" moment.
Yeah it is unclear how socialized she is. On one side is seems like she has never even touched another person within her memory but on the other she seems like she knows her way around a conversation. Still, weird how she just runs off after the daring escape from the tower and leaves Booker on the beachside.
If I had to be extremely realistic to Elizabeth's upbringing in the tower Columbia. I imagine Comstock either hired or he himself designated education and social skills through means of books movies course lessons etc. Giving her a decently well-rounded core. I imagine as Elizabeth began using her powers and being able to experiment with them she got curious and stepped into other places where she could be briefly. I understand that Disney princess criticism and maybe I'm being too charitable but I think Elizabeth is fine. Maybe if they wanted to establish how socialize she was they could have her be more direct with her entertainment or ways of being taught
She spent her life trapped in a tower, gets upset by your first act of murder then doesn't give a shit, doesn't really get effected by anything at all, even her character is not at risk at all and the enemies don't even acknowledge her existence while they shoot at you and her even though they're trying to get her back. She might as well not even exist
She clearly does give a shit she reacts pretty strongly but for brevity and gameplay they're not going to have her react to every single horrendous deed you're committing that would get pretty fricking annoying after a while. Not to mention her empathy starts to fame when the people fighting you kind of deserve it
Because she's not escort mission she's literally there to supply you ammo. Why would you add an appointment like that in a gallery shooter? The character is meant to be focusing on all the enemies surrounding them and surviving it would be extremely tedious to have to go shoot an enemy trying to stop or kill her or something. It was annoying when the resident evil 4 did it. If you're talking about her not having a reaction to things that's just not true.
And yet I sympathized with her way more anyway, which culminated in co-operating with her in the lategame. Pure kino.
That's called good character writing, instead of the character being "Booker, catch" RNG loot drop dispenser.
No it’s called your projection. All they had to do was point to a big daddy and little sister from Bioshock 1 and say “what if that was you?” and the pure pathos of it was enough for you to imagine Eleanor was an actual character.
>no argument
I accept your seethe and cope
You don't know the first thing about good character writing because Eleanor specifically doesn't have any interesting traits besides benevolent daughter who somehow didn't get corrupted. And that ugly escort part was literally the shittiest part of the game. Your opinion on Bioshock is worthless
>reverse
I asked you first cuck
I wish you annoyingly Shepherd she's chipper for the first few minutes that you release her because she believes you're helping her and then once she realizes the wool has been pulled over her eyes she's bitterly annoyed and angry with you. She's probably happy because you literally are saving her and she's being exposed to the world for the first time.
I don't really think so she was established from the get-go not to be extremely autistic or unfamiliar with people. For all intents and purposes it seems like Comstock did raise her properly. She's gotten enough exposure from books and her tear openings that I imagine she could claim some sort of sociability.
Also while that's debatably true if you use the blade weapon on your enemies she'll usually react to it still. But I imagine she would get desensitized what's the point of her always reacting like 15 hours into the game?
You literally didn't present one. You asserted that Eleanor is somehow a well-written character when she is literally generic as frick
People liked fallout 4 for being a tight shooter. That was the biggest compliment that people gave. Functionally it's serviceable and even if we don't point to fall out we can point to call of duty. Or assassin's Creed. Or pretty much any established modern Triple-A release because gameplay in those games are usually tight. But they're often forgotten or criticized for being lackluster in other areas
F4 is an incredibly mediocre shooter. people praised it because they improved upon the absolute dogshit that was f3/nv shooting
Yeah I don’t really get what he’s on about with that, all of the Bioshocks have better shooting than F4, that game sucks. 2 is still the least impressive Bioshock though, stagnant copy pasted game, there’s a reason it’s only enduring legacy is a couple gays on v making the same thread over and over.
The gameplay improvements made it a fun return to rapture after a couple years, but try and play through all the games fresh and 2 is just a fricking slog you zone out to until you can get to Infinite.
Bruh Eleanor is a cardboard cutout, not even a cartoon character.
Honestly, the story of Bioshock is kind of shit in all games, the atmosphere is good though. I felt 2 was more dialogue heavy, Lamb has so many lines compared to Ryan, just shut up b***h. 2 has a better gameplay, but the way enemy spawn is just stupid some times.
If you're playing on PC prepare for a shit ton of crashes.
I didn't really like it and dropped it after playing the first one.
i thinks its great, being able to use plasmids and guns together is fun, lillte sisters cute and sinclair is a bro dlc is good too
SS1>Bioshock 2>1>SS2>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
best one and only one I bothered to play to completion
maybe not the best story, I wouldn't know, but definitely the best gameplay
best game of the series
The thing about Bioshock 2 is it's not really about ideology. That's there, in Lamb being a socialist, because they pretty much had to have something, but that's almost irrelevant to the real emotional core of the story, which is about a Frankenstein monster trying to save his fake daughter from her abusive mother.
The fact that it's more just a story about characters as opposed to pseudo-philosophical musings on society, is also arguably why it's the best one.
Ken Levine's vision of Bioshock is basically a political cartoon. It's utterly bland.
What character? The people into have no character. Delta some weird Frankenstein and your daughter is a listless and boring nothing.
Why attempt to emulate a standing for an Andrew Ryan character if that's not supposed to be the core focal point? Why not put more of the effort into the contracting relationship between Delta the daughter and Sophia maybe like an allegory for parental separation
No that anon is definitely right. Infinite has much more soul
The only reason people here say it's the best Bioshock game is because this place is both filled with contrarians AND this site harbors a lot of racists who can't express their, ahem, opinions, freely anywhere else. So the minuscule number of cretins who are STILL assmad that Bioshock Infinite is an anti-racist game and can't let it go all gather on this site and talk up Bioshock 2 like it's some kind of masterpiece just to spite a ten year old game that's politically opposed to them. Sad, really.
In reality, Bioshock 2 sucks donkey balls. It's boring. Go anywhere else online and people will either call the original or Infinite the best Bioshock, never 2.
I'm partial to Infinite, myself; but you'll come to your own conclusion anyway. See how long you'll care to play Bioshock 2.
I say it's the best because I liked it most when I played. It has better gameplay than the other 2, a much better ending than either of the other 2, and characters you actually care about because they aren't paper thin political cartoons, or Disney princesses. How is it not the best one? Because it doesn't make stupid people feel smart(actual quote from Ken Levine)?
>actual quote from Ken Levine
You have been purposefully mis-representing this quote for almost a decade now, nobody is falling for it.
Me, I think Infinite is still the best by a mile. Columbia is prettier than Rapture, Comstock and Columbia's religious zealotry and discriminative society all but essentially predicted the christo-fascist, modern American conservative movement (seriously, if you want to see the America the Republican Party wants to build and what place you will have in it if you are not a straight, white male, go play Bioshock Infinite); making Infinite genuinely politically relevant; as opposed to the other two games' libertarian communities which basically never existed and never will (especially now that Bitcoin crashed), and are irrelevant to actual humanity. Gameplay is way better, to this day up there with Titanfall 2 and Doom Eternal; the story is amazing, Elizabeth is the only video game character I ever felt empathy towards, and Booker is one of only two vidya protagonists I could ever identify with.
Don't wanna' badmouth Bioshock 2 or anybody who likes it, far be it from me. But man, Infinite is a fricking masterpiece.
>Comstock and Columbia's religious zealotry and discriminative society all but essentially predicted the christo-fascist, modern American conservative movement
This. There is literally no, absolute ZERO functional difference between how the people of Columbia worship Zachary Hale Comstock and how Republicans today worship Donald Trump. It's insane.
And Infinite came out in 2013!
Infinite turned Bioshock into a bad Call of Duty, and the plot literally doesn't make sense, that game is fricking shite, past the initial cool factor of the visual design.
Elizabeth is Belle from Beauty and the Beast, and Booker is like the most generic "gruff white guy" protagonist.
I'll be the Frankenstein monster with the cuter daughter, thanks.
>Infinite turned Bioshock into THE BEST Call of Duty
I'll take that over the watered-down, wannabee System Shock of the other games.
>and the plot literally doesn't make sense,
If you're stupid.
>that game is fricking shite, past the initial cool factor of the visual design
WRONG
>Elizabeth is Belle from Beauty and the Beast,
I can think of worse things to take inspiration from
>and Booker is like the most generic "gruff white guy" protagonist
Nah, when he isn't taking the very words outs of my mouth he is consistently interesting, wether it's due to his mysterious past or due to him being an butthole.
>I'll be the Frankenstein monster with the cuter daughter, thanks.
Suit yourself, have fun.
I'm going to assume you're messing with me, but some people actually have taste this bad, and that's the worrying part.
*Most people have taste this GOOD, or at least good enough (not up to my level, obviously) to appreciate Infinite. Sales and reviews certainly say so
Infinite is better than 2, stay coping
It's not. Play literally any Call of Duty game. They're better.
sounds like you are literally seething about it rn kek
Solid bait
Bioshock 1 but shorter
It's better than the first game, mostly in gameplay and also the story doesn't fall apart after you meet Ryan because there's no twist like that in the game. I think anyone who cries about 2 is either hopped up on nostalgia for it, hasn't played 2, or is busy sucking off the political themes it has and basically nothing else.
*hopped up on nostalgia for 1
Who was it that made that really good video picking apart Infinite? Was it Errant Signal? Trying to remember 2013 youtubers.
This is probably what you're thinking of.
I think it was a guy in a suede jacket, but Mathewmatosis usually knows his stuff.
Not sure who you're specifically referring to but I will agree with you about Matthewmatosis, I usually think of that video when I think of Infinite critiques and I generally agree with what he says in it anyway.
Wasn't some of his criticisms that the game was too light on the racism?
I'm pretty sure he literally calls them out on not saying "Black person" explicitly when the game was talking about racism extensively.
To me that's a pretty dumb criticism I don't think I need to be brow beaten to know that Colombia is a racist sky city. I think the only thing that probably adds is authenticity but Colombia didn't seem to be unabashedly racist more so the Jim Crow law kind of racist.
Which is such a stupid thing to say. The game portrayed racism in Columbia the way racism occured in Jim Crow societies: ever present, all pervasive, but not something actively engaged in by most people outside of lynchings because that's just "uncivilized". White people just expected everyone else to "know their place", so to speak. But they absolutely did everything in their power to uphold that status quo.
Oh man, a decade later and this video is still so fricking embarrassing. Motherfricker gets everything possible wrong about the game and some idiots actually agree with him!
So good to see he's irrelevant now
Aged so well
It's a good game. Go play it.
Best game in the series.
Pity to those who didn't get to play the online and max out their levels 4x between GFWL and Steam.
1 has the best story
2 has the best ganeplay
3 is.... Eh
3 has the best porn.
I think 3 has the best characters
3 has the best everything.
What the frick were they planning to do when they jumped to the other reality? Grab all the room sized equipment and take it back through a rift? They go to another rift where the equipment is there, then they never try to go back? If they have gone to a different reality then they probably don't fricking need the equipment in that other reality, because it hasn't been stolen, but then they never go back to the actual reality, is that called jumping the shark? It goes from "let's get the equipment to help our reality" to "frick it let's just hop randomly about and see where we end up"
Neither of them understand the true nature of Elizabeth's power at that point. Either by luck or by Elizabeth's subconscious, they go to a reality that's Booker and Liz ALSO went to another reality. Only difference is that they can get out of the workshop.
Maybe it's tied to how Elizabeth can use her powers: the more proficient she gets at it, the more different the realities she can go into can be from where she started.
>They go to another rift where the equipment is there, then they never try to go back?
When they get back it's implied the Vox rebels have access to it now because you've cleared the way.
But you wouldn't have had an agreement with the vox to get the equipment because it hadn't been taken in the first place, I don't see how they are supposed to benefit from that, weren't they just helping the vox because they had been threatened or something?
>you told me to get your machinery, and now you have it back
>but we didn't lose it or ask you to get it
I don't exactly remember the specifics right now, but their goal is always to get the frick out of Columbia. And aiding the Vox Rebellion is their only way to do so at that point.
After that first jump nothing matters anymore.
They left their universe so as the viewer/player I have no attachment to the whole story anymore. And everything else you said is true as well. And they expect the deal that they made in the first reality to somehow work in the second one? Fricking kek.
Also they could literally use the small flying gondolas at any time to travel down to the surface.
Good ending kinda gave me the spark to become a dad
A wanker in my maths class spoilt the twist of 1, but then I catfished him a few years later so I will accept it. You had a nice wiener Phil.
Thats what I heard too but it ended up being one of the best games ive ever played. Ansolutely everything is better in this game including the story.
Why did they have to change the storyline during production? They put out promotionals and everything. I mean the game is good and everything but damn man. The original story was so much more interesting.
Bioshock 2 is the 'better' game but I still prefer Bioshock 1 because I played it first
B2 may have better hacking and better combat but that isn't why I love these games
I can remember the first 2 hours of B1 so well and I barely remember much of what happens in B2 because its just more of the same
The B2 DLC was pretty good though, best thing in the series probably
I think you're confused with Infinite
I'm not confused with Infinite at all. It is true that it could be said more was going on with that game sure but I still remember seeing all the shit coming out about 2 and being so invested only for big sisters to just be standard fights. And yeah, no one gave a shit about the main antagonist. She was lame compared to what we where going to get.
Don't know if the changes made to inf made it better or worse honestly. That game as it stands is a visual mess to me.
Huh right I didn't know B2 had a weird development as well.
Infinite had so much missed potential I wasn't surprised to find out how different the trailers looked after finishing it
B2 just felt like a long DLC of B1, so it never really bothered me
Yeah, back when it was going to be known as Bioshock 2: Sea of Dreams I was already invested. The shit they cut out is insane. Still fricking bothers me.
>Bioshock 2: Sea of Dreams
Damn the Sea of Dreams trailer gives me shivers to this day. I dont know the entire development history but it would be interesting to know what their ideas were for the Sea of Dreams thing.
I don't remember much about it but I remember it was pretty fun to play, maxing out on drill only was good shit. Shits all over Infinite, anyway
Best game in the series. Always fully upgrade drill
If Liz is supposed to be Comstock's heir, why has he apparently made no effort to push his ideals on her when he's had her whole life to do so?
Why does booker make no attempt to hide his antichrist hand mark when he knows it's bad?
Why does nobody notice the hand mark until he's the center of attention and waving it around? People were having conversations with him before then, even when they baptized him, only the preacher was blind, did nobody else notice anything?
If Columbia hates the Irish, why are they playing Rory O'Moore on the beach?
If Columbia hates blacks so much, why would they rather bring them into their gated community than clean their own toilets?
Why do we walk into an ambush and kill a bunch of guys on the boardwalk, take one cable car and then the rest of the boardwalk never got the memo?
Why would taking present booker back in time and killing him prevent comstock from existing in any universe ever?
Why does this send booker back to a normal life in the post-credits?
Why does this apparently work except for the one guy in burial at sea?
If columbia can get plasmid technology from the atlantic seafloor in the 1950s in another universe, why can't they get planes when those have already been invented?
>If planters think they’re so superior to blacks, why don’t they pick their own cotton?
The whole point of columbia as a gated community that's kept separate from foreigners and hates them all coming to america is lost if they just do the same thing america did already. If they were being kept out of sight in the factories, that would be one thing, but they're using them as front of house service on the boardwalk.
>Why would taking present booker back in time and killing him prevent comstock from existing in any universe ever?
>Why does this send booker back to a normal life in the post-credits?
>Why does this apparently work except for the one guy in burial at sea?
Dont question it. The story is amazingly well written and Ken Levine is a genius. Anyone who doesnt understand it is a brainlet.
I didn't read this whole thing but like I said there's a lot of potholes in BioShock Infinite for as ambitious as it's trying to be. But I appreciate the ambition and a lot of the elements enough that it isn't an immediate gut shot to me.
>it was a half assed sequel
moronic Levine buttlicker mene
Story is better in 1, gameplay is better in 2, series died off unfortunately afterwards.
I much prefer the story of 1 because Lamb in 2 always grated me with how preachy and holier than thou her whole character was. The PCs relationship with Eleanor is also pretty questionable since youre just told of their relationship not actually shown it. Flashbacks or earlier gameplay scenarios with her before the Delta gets his head blown off would have been cool
2 absolutely has better gameplay though
Better than Infinite
oh its a newbie makes sense
The best gameplay in the series but the story/presentation was nowhere as interesting as 1
2 is absolutely my favorite. The harvesting bit where you set traps and gear up for an attack was a ton of fun. The ending was good, the female big daddy really effective, rapture looked great. The first had the novelty of being first, and fresh, but that's about it. 2 improved upon it.
It's the best one. And 1 gays will tell you 1 has a better story when it doesn't. Once you get over the first game's twist the replayability goes down in the tubes. 2 has a much more compelling narrative as it is a more emotional one. Plus it's just more fun
>multiple endings
>best gameplay in the series
>good all the way through
>expanded on the story of 1 and did everything better than Infinite
>made israelite Levine seethe because he knew there was no way to top it
>10/10 DLC
Easily the best Bioshock and the perfect sequel. But do feel free to skip it and play Infinite instead. I'm sure you won't regret it.
Mechanically 2 shits all over 1, people who say otherwise are just nostalgia morons who act like the story in 1 is some literary masterpiece it's not, if you dig into the actual storyline it's just as bad as 2 but with much shittier gameplay morons tend to mix up having good characters, with having a good story, and Bioshock 1 does have better characters in general than 2. Ryan is more interesting than Lamb, Sander Fricking Cohen is a treasure, but the gameplay is still shit and the story is a convoluted mess that only works if you don't think about it.
>Ryan is more interesting than Lamb
In broad strokes maybe, on paper. But I found her way more interesting in her monologues, goals, etc.
She’s a generic mad scientist made by the B team to live in Kens world
And he was a generic objectivist industrialist made by the A team to live in Kens world
Bravo A team, it was cool
It's my favorite BioShock, second favorite game of all time, however, playing within the last year, the story is essentially the first but flipped to the other end of the political spectrum.
That said, what makes it work is the actual connection you have to the story as opposed to being a mindless tool, Eleanor IS your daughter, Sofia has a reason to want you dead, and Sinclair starts off one way, but his colors revealed in the end are great.
Gameplay is fantastic, and environments are great.
The multiplayer was kino
The Bioshock 2 has better gameplay meme is so fricking moronic. It's so fricking bad. It's also piss easy and the video camera is abhorrent to use as it places an ugly thick sepia filter over your screen for half your battles.
It's fun.
Would Bioshock 2 be a good game for a person who likes games such as System Shock 1, 2 and Prey? You know, im sims? Bioshock 1 was a massive disappointment since it was a straight up console corridor shooter.
Probably not since its more Bioshock
Shame. People kept saying it has the best gameplay in the series so I thought maybe it was more like the games it was claiming to be inspired by.
It doesn't have better gameplay, it just has a more powerful pistol so everyone thinks that combat is magically better.
Literally the same gameplay other than that, in fact it's significantly more braindead because it's wave based tower defense and everything was even further casualized, like the hacking
You are an actual moron.
>It doesn't have better gameplay
>it's wave based tower defense
You're contradicting yourself. The execution of this wave based tower defense *is* the better gameplay.
>The execution of this wave based tower defense *is* the better gameplay
Lmao stop
It introduced a fun new combat element that was enjoyable. What's the joke?
They have some similarities but Bioshock games are not exactly immersive sims, in the sense of Prey, Dishonored etc.
They are more linear and dont have many options on how to approach situations. But the game is good.
>They are more linear and dont have many options on how to approach situations.
That's exactly what I was looking for and if Bioshock 2 doesn't provide that kind of gameplay then it's not what I want. Thanks for clearing that up for me. Maybe I'll give Dishonored a look instead since I've yet to play the full release.
Yeah BS2 having better gameplay than 1 just means the corridor shooting is a little smoother, definitely play dishonored though.
never read a damn thing just played the game
lmao
i tried playing this multiple times but never bothered to finish it