they are all just vfx reskins of each other, no stat different and there's no elemental properties
you can literally beat ifrit with fire "magic"
the "magic" is just dmc blue rose gun projectile reskinned
He isn't wrong though. If you are facing a flying enemy without Barret in 7R, and are unlucky to not have the correct weakness available because you can't swap mid-combat, the fight is do-able but a massive slog. Oh you have Garuda, Phoenix and Titan? This guy is weak to lighting you dumbass who can't predict the future of what you might fight.
Just flee from combat moron and re-equip. AFAIK there's no boss that's going to happen with where you don't have at least 1 part member who can hit it.
The main thing that makes ffxi so much better than 13 is that the combat isn't turn based. Turn based is excusable when there's exploration and tons of Easter eggs (and a good story). But if a game is gonna be linear it better have good combat+good story. Ffxvi has both so I will play it to completion whereas I put down 13 within 2 or 3 hours.
Square Enix have been hiring western consultants and market analysts (these are people who don't play video games).
They told them "nobody wants RPG's and if you make an RPG nobody will buy it so don't you dare do that".
The first 6 games didn't have cutscenes and they were the best games in the series.
>5 people standing around and talking with dialog boxes coming up
Guess what, that was a cutscene. Gears of War walk and talk radio scenes, yup, a cutscene.
>make it a "character action game" >can’t even juggle bosses >they don’t even have a variety of hit reactions either >stagger bar system is as basic as it gets
It’s why they couldn’t even decide what direction they wanted so they just went with this half-assed in-between that doesn’t satisfy anyone on either side.
there's action games where you can juggle bosses? You can't really do it in hi-fi rush, or even most DMC fights. Juggles all come from gays in training mode overhyping the games flexibility in combo videos.
>some DMC fights
Are there any juggleable bosses in DMC that don't break out of it in like 3 seconds? Vergil always does and I can't even think of many others you can launch in the first place.
Yeah I like the stagger mechanic in FF7R way better. It's so much more impactful, and the numerous stagger materia and skills in the game make it far more satisfying and tactical. I really don't understand why XVI copied it so halfassedly
Its basically the same shit, except that game has elemental weaknesses so its easier to stagger in general.
Juggling bosses is gay
If it's gay to juggle bosses, then I'm a ginormous homosexual.
Juggling bosses is only okay if the game doesn't put a bandaid of giving them superarmor or an exit. If I am juggling, let me fricking juggle. Don't give the boss an escape mid combo because uhhh can't let you have TOO much fun. Which is basically what they do for Vergil in 3 and 5, you can juggle to a small extent
Despite FF13 being pretty controversial, I actually think it handles the concept of stagger pretty well too considering how you can launch enemies into the air when they’re staggered and do all kinds of crazy shit. In FF7R, enemies will react to some weaknesses by being pressured, which opens them up to being staggered quicker, and on top of that, your attacks all have different properties that better lend them to both pre and post-staggering. Firing off magic to pressure an enemy, then a focused thrust to confirm a stagger, using Tifa’s triangle move to increase the damage ratio, before popping off a high damage attack to cash out, and more. And that combo won't always work since different enemies have different criteria for staggering sometimes, and also your party composition differs based on the part of the game. In FFXVI’s case, it opens them up to free damage and lets you fire all your cooldown moves off, which feels less interesting to me.
Dark souls and elden ring have always been RPGs because the way you build your character and the stats actually matter tho, who's the moron saying they aren't
Dark Souls/Elden Ring are more RPGs than 99% of JRPGs on the market.
How is that surprising? 99% of JRPGs don't even let you allocate points on level up.
What is so hard to understand? Final Fantasy (that is strictly speaking, a franchise that represent the J-RPG category) have less "RPG" element than the Souls franchise, which is usually, closer to the A-RPG than traditional RPG.
You can play a Soul game and finish it without touching anything RPG related in it. Now try that on an old Final Fantasy, try finishing FF9 without upgrading and leveling anything, see how it turns out.
>What is so hard to understand?
nothing, making it an inane thing to smugly point out because literally no one in the world has ever disputed it and you're not smart
>world has ever disputed it and you're not smart
If FF16 was a proper turn based game and was using back the old formula, it would have more "RPG" elements than a Soul game.
My point is, the FF franchise, with FF16, reached a situation where they have even lower "RPG" elements than an A-RPG, that same A-RPG that is borderline more Action than RPG (as opposed to let's say, the witcher).
Why the frick do I need to explain all of this?
What RPG elements would you have liked added then? Cause I have to be honest, the franchise has always just been about padding your stats so your damage numbers will be higher
11 months ago
Anonymous
Elemental weaknesses would have been an easy one and also very easy to make complex.
Status effects also something easy to implement and get creative with on different enemy types, also debuffs.
Some kind of buff, at least regenerative heals.
Non-linear skill trees for decision making.
Itemization that doesn’t involve linear damage increases though this is hard to ask for when you barely have stats to begin with.
11 months ago
Anonymous
I think the most important thing for me is that I want the Eikon abilities to matter more than just being DMC styles. Like I want them to have some narrative significance in how they play.
One thing I actually like A LOT about DMC is how they've ended up using the gameplay to express how a character thinks and behaves. Virgil's play-style rewards you for being more precise and collected than Dante's playstyles.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>Elemental weaknesses would have been an easy one and also very easy to make complex. >Status effects also something easy to implement and get creative with on different enemy types, also debuffs. >Some kind of buff, at least regenerative heals.
These are not RPG mechanics but combat mechanics. Buffs, debuffs, or elemental weaknesses are not unique to RPGs. >Non-linear skill trees for decision making.
That could have been interesting, but considering the replayability of these games are already poor because of a lack of player choice I honestly prefer having selectable skill combos over having parts of the skill tree barred on a playthrough >Itemization that doesn’t involve linear damage increases though this is hard to ask for when you barely have stats to begin with.
Unfortunately I don't think this has been part of the franchise for a while
11 months ago
Anonymous
Those are RPG mechanics, I dont care for your definition of it
5, 7, 8, 9, 10 and 12 are the only ones with actual alright RPG systems. In 6 you just stick espers onto people which gives extra stuff on level up and unlocks magic for them. Which means ridiculous grinding, which is sorta what 9 does aswell with the AP stuff with equipment unlocking passives
>Dark souls and elden ring have always been RPGs because the way you build your character and the stats actually matter tho, who's the moron saying they aren't
building a character is less of an rpg than this, rpg's aren't number and stat builders despite what you moronic autistic number cum guzzlers think. It's about playing a character. The stats are just supposed to set the rules and boundaries for the game.
How can it be less of an RPG? Clive will always be dude with sword who uses Eikons and always follows the exact same linear path through the game. Your build in a souls game can completely lock off gameplay choices and open new ones, or make it possible to go through areas another build/class couldn't.
What really happens is that her group gets killed off while she's in shock that MC stole her powers and relegated her to irrelevancy.
Then when she snaps out of her trance like state the bandits who ambushed her group get ready to have their fun I guess, and their hand(s?) reaching out to her reminder her of how Cid, her-ex, reached his hand to her after saving her from bandits, when they first met.
She then said some shit like, "is this what I deserve all because I didn't listen to you?" (He wanted to run off with her from the group they were once all apart of but she stayed). Then she starts to loose it in a fit of rage because of how tragic things turned out for her and turns into Mindless Garuda
its going to be a hacked up slopjob shined up with a whole crate of turd polish, and the people making it suck butthole for fun, what the hell did you expect? These threads are pointless and already repetitive before the game is even out, Ganker just keeps sucking more and more every year
Yes because final fantasy has always been known for its realistic combat. A band of 3 girls (one of them being like 13 or something) and 1 rail thin guy with the homosexual coke head look is obviously capable of fighting the literal personification of the infinite void in space and winning after withstanding literally being set on fire, struck by lightning, bitten by beasts 50x their size blown up, and literally killed and brought back to life a gazillion times for years and that's completely based in reality
>limit break used to be exceedingly cool special moves >Often with special mechanics (slots, trigger on attack, fighting game inputs, inputs plus chaining with other party members, etc.) >now you just glow and get a flame border on your screen
MMO devs...
The game sucks, but I would have killed that chicken in less than 2 seconds if I was in overdrive mode. The combat is good and easy, I just think most people can't wrap their head around how to combo. Hint: if you're still using the basic attack after the tutorial (or even the attack/burst/attack/burst) you're playing like shit.
It's ok. Definitely overhyped by the game devs and even journo's/impression people. I fully expect in a month, we'll get a big action youtuber making a video of where 16's combat falls short and the reaction will be "yeah, that's true".
Cooldown-based special moves is a fricking baffling choice in an action game without good enough of a core moveset to justify it. Clive's base move-set is REALLY piddly-feeling and the special moves are too good in comparison. Feels like they should have either given Clive more tools or made the cooldowns based on dealing damage or something, or just use a KH1-esque MP system at least. Cooldowns with no way to manipulate them seems like the most boring way to do it.
Something as simple as "dealing damage gives a slight decrease to cooldown on all your abilities" would make the game feel MUCH more aggressive and fun.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Yeah, it's weird to have cooldowns in the first place, but if you're gonna have them, let them be manipulated. I think they already have the combo system so that continuous combos increase your damage or something, right? Just tie that into cooldown reduction too, there you go, you now have a style meter that actually matters.
Cooldowns for attacks aren’t inherently bad. Just look at the TWEWY games. Since they’re tied to your only means of attacking (the pins), resource management is a core part of the combat and there are multiple ways to manipulate them. What also works in TWEWY’s case is how the cooldowns are related towards building up the power of the light puck or building up Groove. If you just spam, you’ll be missing out on less opportunity to build up the puck for more damage since it can eventually go away if you’re not doing consistent finishers and in NEO, Groove rapidly depletes if you’re not doing Beatdrops consecutively. There are in-game battle goals that reward you immensely for properly managing your meters and adds an extra layer of depth to the combat.
11 months ago
Anonymous
I'm aware cooldowns can be executed well. They're just not in XVI because they're flat cooldowns (I think some accessories can reduce specific ones?) with no functionality besides waiting. For a VERY action-heavy game with minimal resource management, it feels a very limp approach.
11 months ago
Anonymous
NEO: TWEWY did this great, and it also helps that there are plenty of pins in the game that are related to "set-up" so that OTHER pins can capitalize on them. And none of the cooldowns on pins feel as long as FF16.
Yeah, it's weird to have cooldowns in the first place, but if you're gonna have them, let them be manipulated. I think they already have the combo system so that continuous combos increase your damage or something, right? Just tie that into cooldown reduction too, there you go, you now have a style meter that actually matters.
Yeah. As it is right now, FF16's combat system is really reminiscent of KH:BBS (but better designed ofc). The emphasis is on super flashy moves that require a single button to use. Player expression is extremely limited because outside of your eikon abilities... Clive has the same 6 moves for a 30 hour game.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Yeah, that's the main part, TWEWY's cooldowns are also incredibly fast for most moves, only really really big moves actually have anything noticeable. You're incentivised to have a variety of moves that you keep switching between too. With XVI, the moves are just "use 'em when you got 'em" and then flail around for a bit with basic b***h moves. The BBS comparison is apt to a point, though BBS at least let you have a lot more to play with and moves were better for more than just hitting more.
11 months ago
Anonymous
You also have like 3 methods of recharging your pins throughout a long chain >Killer Remix
Instantly charges up your pins after you use it, guaranteeing that you get back into the fray. >Leaving an pin idle will recharge your pin overtime
Which is particularly useful for Psychs like Shockwave, Vulcan Uppercut, and Vortex Saber, who allows you to use the full combo and get to the finisher regardless of how much charge you have. There are also Psychs like Firestorm that only requires you to inflict the burn effect in order to activate its Beatdrop, which you can augment with Ailing Enemies and as well as Water pins with the ability Take Five, which drastically increases reboot time if left alone in a deck with other pins still ready to be activated. >Finally, pins recharge between rounds
Which encourages you to be as aggressive as possible and finish rounds so that you won’t spend too much time on one when you’re going for a high battle rank.
This isn’t even getting into how you can just use the accessories that speed up boot/charge time or use pins with less reboot times and cooldown in a deck.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>resource management is a core part of the combat
lole
You literally just have to keep juggling and if you know what to do you never need to look at the yellow bars. Bullets make this very easy, and then just add melee or patrol shots or whatever while holding blackhole/ghost swords on cd.
And you just press all buttons at once if there's only one enemy left.
I like the game but don't say it's some complex high IQ shit. Practically the only thing that you need to care about is the order of your pin activations so the active character isn't the one stuck in place doing a blackhole or some shit.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>You literally just have to keep juggling and if you know what to do you never need to look at the yellow bars.
Except enemies have their counters break out far more often when you’re chaining multiple encounters, which is pretty important to consider due to how long chains are how you get a lot of the cool shit you’ll want in NEO. >Bullets make this very easy, and then just add melee or patrol shots or whatever while holding blackhole/ghost swords on cd. And you just press all buttons at once if there's only one enemy left.
Ignoring the fact that black holes don’t work on shit like mammoths, dinos, and a lot of the bosses, juggling enemies infinitely isn’t even possible considering how they tend to fall down and gain super armor when they hit the yellow flash and thus immunity to hit states unless you’ve used status effects beforehand. >Practically the only thing that you need to care about is the order of your pin activations so the active character isn't the one stuck in place doing a blackhole or some shit.
As well as synergy between your pins, whether or not they’ll work on certain enemies, how to make sure that they don’t bust out of your combos too often, enemy types that will knock your shit around if you’re too idle (jellies, wolves that like to do their lightspeed dashes, puffers and their bombs and traversal speed, scorpions and their poison clouds and sniping capabilities, chameleons in general, birds liking to pelt your ass with feathers and bind your party members, etc…), and more. Enemies in NEO actually force you to do different things.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>Cooldowns for attacks aren’t inherently bad.
They are. It's a pointless limitation that gatekeeps you from experimenting freely. It's just a lousy way to artificially spike up the difficulty or put less effort into balancing enemies/bosses around your arsenal. You go ahead and see a nice resource management in it. But people don't play over-the-top combo-heavy action games to manage resources. They play those games to break limits get better at them and make the impossible possible. Cooldowns are either pointlessly haltering your process for these goals for additional hours or gatekeep you from it entirely. It's a gacha money eater mechanic to sell you faster cooldowns. It doesn't belong to vidya
11 months ago
Anonymous
>he isn’t able to experiment anyway
Sounds like a skill issue to me.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Why don't you just play fricking smart phone games while you're at it? Don't taint home console games with your gacha mechanics.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Cooldowns have been a part of games since fricking DnD. Don’t blame the mechanic itself for gacha games using them badly when games like TWEWY actually show that you can do them well.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>since DnD
not a video game and you need to go back. games the way we know were inspired by arcade machines. they had little to no limitations and you got better at them with sheer skill. incentivized by the idea of making the most out of your coin.
DnD shit is an american trait with games like Oblivion and Fable bein the role model. they literally run on numbers and values and on nothing else. your actions in comparison matter way less in comparison. that's where we got now with modern vidya relying way too much on aspects that have very little to do with actual interactivity. people these days value story over gameplay and a shitty DnD system that couldn't be further from vidya is the perfect way to appeal to them
11 months ago
Anonymous
>But people don't play over-the-top combo-heavy action games to manage resources
You do realize that meter management is a staple in a large majority of action games, right?
11 months ago
Anonymous
Not in the the way TWEWY does it. Dante doesn't have cooldown for his Stinger or for any other of his basic Attack tools. He sure has Meter Management for Devil Trigger but he can do normal attacks as much as he wants to
11 months ago
Anonymous
cooldown =/= meter management
a lot of you are really just absolute nugay tourists binge watching youtube combos all day instead of playing yourself
11 months ago
Anonymous
I play plenty of action games. Don’t lump me in with your projecting ass.
11 months ago
Anonymous
you absolutely don't if you put meter management on the same boat as cooldowns. i'm not going to spoonfeed you on why this is wrong. you would know if you weren't a fricking poser
11 months ago
Anonymous
I play games like God Hand, DMC, Bayonetta, OG God of War, etc…
Again, don’t lump me in with your projecting ass.
11 months ago
Anonymous
NEO TWEWY also had side content that was actually worth it and gave you good rewards.
> We barely need stats > We don't need status ailments > We don't need elemental weaknesses/strengths > We don't need skill/magic variety > We don't need mana/stamina systems > We don't need Black folk, but we add homosexuals instead > We don't need active exploration > We don't need good sidequests > We don't need secrets around the world > We don't need turns, it's time to evolve > RPG evolution is just turning into Devil May Cry
I'd enjoy it even more if it was just a linear action game. Delete all the side quests and weird open field areas that are just there to waste my time.
I had alot of confidence in this game but i dont even think i'll finish it at this point. The story just feels kinda dull, Clive and Cid are carrying while Jill doesn't even emote or say anything. So many games with slavery allegories just never hit for me, they want make me feel sad but it just doesn't work.
It's just strange how they went out of the way to make Clive himself a slave but he never really seems to care about it. Obviously he has some trauma from the experience but it's just kind of brushed over.
I think the only way to make a player understand what the in-universe slave goes through is to make them play the part in the story. FF16 just timeskips through all that shit
There probably should've been at least 1 scene of him in the Empire and some shit with his slave suicide squad before immediately timeskipping to him deserting
Having him do one different mission with Tiamat's squad before meeting Jill and Torgal again immediately would have made it feel a little less contrived.
Final Fantasy has always had a problem with its RPG system only being >add more points to stat to do higher damage numbers
Explain to me how the RPG mechanics are supposed to make one playthrough of FFXV supposed to be different from the next?
Not true at all
FF has actually been pretty good about its RPG systems letting you create different party compositions with differing specialties
The very first game is pretty well known for how varied your party load out can be
I'd also argue the important part of an RPG is its storytelling through gameplay, more than story or gameplay on their own.
An RPG can have a dog-shit story but if they use gameplay in an interesting way to express character development or personalities or what's happening in the broader story, then I'd say it's doing a good job
one mage based run
one tank based run
one level 1 based run
etc
all that is dependant on weapon builds
one sword run
one gun run
one ROYAL arm only
one machine run
etc
What on earth do you mean? You're playing as a particular character. Was FFVII not an RPG because your choices only influenced whether you dated Tifa or Aeris?
you guys think this game would've been easy goty if it wasn't a numbered ff game and they just made it an action focused spin off instead? I'm so close to having fun with it but the pacing of the story and shitty side quests completely bog it down.
It has no goty chance either way. Not being a mainline would simply make it sell 90% less, since people will buy anything that is a mainline so they are caught up in the "lore".
It wouldn't even be considered for GOTY unless it was numbered (either as a remake or a new entry).
Game Awards rarely look at spinoffs when giving out prestige
True, but I still stand by that this game would've been amazing if it just simply focused on being action oriented. It feels like they had some rpg mechanics planned but gave up early on development and just left them in. The portions where you're traveling in a world map and doing crappy quests suck so bad. This game is great when they toss you in a story dungeon
Oh, I agree
To some degree, that's the freedom Strangers of Paradise had.
They didn't have the TRIPLE A expectations hanging over their head, nor the legacy to live up to. So they ultimately got to mess around more and take more risks.
FFXVI may seem like a "risk" for a series that has traditionally been menu-based combat but it's actually very safe if you look at general market trends for big tentpole releases
Yes, probably. At least until they get more of the old guard back that worked on 4, 5 and 6
XIII was always decent it just had lightning stigma and linear sphere grid
Having just beaten XIII, it had a LOT of issues I can't fricking stand >half the game has you working with a sub-full party and doesn't even let you choose party members or give you many alternate paradigms to let you spec them into >item progression is never really properly explained or even insinuated through menu design. >Gran Pulse is filled with unpleasant backtracking and running around whilst doing aimless side quests >Eidolons could have been more useful
It had its good points but the way it split its party to the point of just not having a proper full party for most of the game was INFURIATING given how the combat system only really opens up with 3 party members with at least 3 paradigms unlocked each
She really is, I don't know if it's just her shitty britbong VA or if it's the character itself but she is so boring everytime she is on screen, not cute at all
It really stood out to me, at the part where you go to destroy the first Mothercrystal, and while Clive and Cid are talking and doing stuff every cutscene Jill is just standing there in the background or not even on camera at all and then when Typhon comes out and tries to grab Clive she does nothing and Cid has to do something. Does she even use her Dominant powers in a cutscene once before the second time skip?
the weirdest part is she often isn't even acknowledged by other characters, Clive will have a discussion with someone else and it's like she isn't even there, nobody reacts to her and she is also saying nothing, it's weird
Jill isn't with Clive before the point of no return for the second time skip, so all the sidequests are written as if you did them them during that brief period with Jill absent
Yo wtf belts and bracers are useless in this game https://www.reddit.com/r/FFXVI/comments/14h7q14/clives_hp_with_armor_1007_vs_without_armor_998 whats this low effort attempt at a rpg
game has has issues but that titan battle against typhoon was kino. They really just should've removed all those dogshit quests inbetween, game would be so much better paced.
You think the game would have been better if Clive had multiple different weapons? Ex: a dragoon spear/lance. From what I seen of ff16 the combat looks fun but I don't like that when human size enemies get staggered they just stay in play when you keep attacking them. Them getting knock around a bit would be more satisfying in my opinion.
Yes, gameplay is great but not amazing. The combat director hyped up the game so much but there's lots to be desired. Clive only having one weapon doesn't feel right, they also don't have specific inputs for moves which means you're locked to only 2 at a time for each eikon.
Torgal also has a launcher, but his other 2 slots are basically useless. They could've put 2 useful things there.
>Clive only having one weapon doesn't feel right,
I see >they also don't have specific inputs for moves which means you're locked to only 2 at a time for each eikon.
I thought it was 3 moves? LB has two and circle has one? >Torgal also has a launcher, but his other 2 slots are basically useless. They could've put 2 useful things there.
Does Clive not have a normal launcher himself? I know one of his eilkon abilities has a launcher.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Clive does have launching methods, but torgal has the conventional one that just launches enemies up.
>The combat director hyped up the game so much
To a shameful degree honestly, pretty much calling it his magnum opus and shit
I don't wanna be too harsh since I haven't unlocked all the mechanics yet, but yeah he was too confident in this. I already said it but Clive having one weapon is so awkward, especially since this is a action game with one playable character.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>Clive does have launching methods
So he only has launchers tied to his eilkon abilities? >but torgal has the conventional one that just launches enemies up.
I see > but yeah he was too confident in this.
I wouldn't be surprised if SE paid him to hype it up. >I already said it but Clive having one weapon is so awkward, especially since this is an action game with one playable character.
Does Clive's sword act differently when in whatever his super mode/dt is called? Like Nero's Exceed extends or boost red queen moves/combos?
11 months ago
Anonymous
It does, Clive's attacks have different properties in his DT. He can launch with his projectiles, or you can charge your melee, jump then do it airborne which launches.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>So he only has launchers tied to his eilkon abilities?
No. Both his charged normals are launchers.
Nice.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>So he only has launchers tied to his eilkon abilities?
No. Both his charged normals are launchers.
Yes, gameplay is great but not amazing. The combat director hyped up the game so much but there's lots to be desired. Clive only having one weapon doesn't feel right, they also don't have specific inputs for moves which means you're locked to only 2 at a time for each eikon.
Torgal also has a launcher, but his other 2 slots are basically useless. They could've put 2 useful things there.
To a shameful degree honestly, pretty much calling it his magnum opus and shit
11 months ago
Anonymous
He was brought on a hype-man, transparently. I am amused that such a move worked on some anons.
KEK
11 months ago
Anonymous
Indeed lool
11 months ago
Anonymous
Clive is for sure better than Nero and V. You just can't compete with multiple weapons that Dante has with just one. Very surprised there wasn't a mid game switch up to get Cid's weapons, even God of War did it twice with the Blades then the Spear.
11 months ago
Anonymous
He 100% isn't better than Nero lol.
He could've easily been, had he more than just some basic 4 hit combo and generic charged attacks.
I think you forget how much Nero could actually do.
Clive should've had Exceed timings on his attacks so that you could vary up his moveset.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>He 100% isn't better than Nero lol.
He 100% is. Nero is missing a lack of options, and Clive has more than him, even if you don't include the techniques, Clive basically had Nero's snatch + Trickster + Royalguard + Swordmaster, etc.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Clive has more options sure. But in terms of depth, it's not close. Clive has discount versions of those things you said,
11 months ago
Anonymous
Yeah people who think Clive is better than Nero are on some crack.
Nero has like 5 different basic combos + BURST EXCEED which actually severely alter the attacks properties + DT which also allows him to do new shit + Arms that give him a bunch of unique stuff.
Clive has 2 basic combos, and all the summon stuff just play themselves. Yes, looking at Garuda do a 20 hit gouge is cool; but all you're doing is pressing square.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Yeah Clive is fun to play but it's been a long time so people don't remember. Where 16 falls short is them not committing to having different button combos and inputs, this means Clive doesn't actually have many strings. WHenever i'm beating up an enemy, I can't actually mix up my melee combos. You have the eikon abilities sure, but they have cool downs
11 months ago
Anonymous
Are you not buffering your charge launchers, then downswing stomp canceling to extend your aerial? It's way more damage than your ground combo.
11 months ago
Anonymous
I still kind of blame Itsuno for 5's nero not having breaker switch. The DMC 5/ff16 combat director was only the combat director for Nero in DMC 4(so he didn't work much on DMC 3/4 Dante) if I am remembering correctly
11 months ago
Anonymous
He was brought on a hype-man, transparently. I am amused that such a move worked on some anons.
KEK
100% they really needed to remove stagger gauge and let all enemies be knocked around and juggled except for the giant ones.
It feels super unsatisfying when you hit an enemy that has stagger gauge, and you don't get a response from them. And when you break that stagger gauge, you still don't get a response; but now I guess you have 20 seconds for a basic ground combo and like 1-2 abilities.
Breaking the stagger gauge should really let things like Rising flames do a knock-up, which y'know is it's entire point.
Just don't do any of the side quests, problem solved. Its the same issue with 7 Remake, if you do all the side content the game is a slog.
He 100% isn't better than Nero lol.
He could've easily been, had he more than just some basic 4 hit combo and generic charged attacks.
I think you forget how much Nero could actually do.
Clive should've had Exceed timings on his attacks so that you could vary up his moveset.
Its not more to do, but how good does it feel to play and the cohesion. I hate Nero's arm shit in 5.
I think these slavery centered stories don't stick because it's just so unrealistic. Throughout history it took hundreds of years for that shit to stop, still happens in some places.
Sure but it would have to be a long game no? For us to resonate, these characters would have to spend atleast 20 hours minimum suffering as slaves so we could get the picture. One of my biggest problems with XBC3 for example was how the game sucked itself off for having a huge war between 2 groups of people who detested eachother. Suddenly your party members just accepted eachother immediatly after the intro, doesn't make any sense.
It's nonsensical. It'd be like a country with nukes being treated like slaves to a country that has a limited military.
If people with magic were the masters it would make sense.
Xenoblade 2 did a really good job with the "certain kinds are treated as slaves" aspect, because the superweapons existence is literally dependent on their masters for the most part. Their owners can treat them like shit, but if they kill their owners; they also get killed automatically.
So how are magic users the enslaved ones? Shouldn't they be the ones enslaving the non magic folk?
The average one isn't particularly powerful, it takes alot out of you clearly, and if you keep pushing yourself to use it you petrify. They are also heavily outnumbered. If the average mage was casting Fira or some shit, and not merely lighting some firewood, then yeah it would be unrealistic. We already see one guy in Clive's unit being taken out by a throwing axe, magic doesn't make you immortal
So most magic users are weak. Got it. >already see one guy in Clive's unit being taken out by a throwing axe, magic doesn't make you immortal
Beware of throwing axes
Sure the average one isn't that powerful; but they're not fighting against soldiers. They're fighting against some regular joe.
They're also dying anyways just by serving the people that own them on top of being treated like shit normally.
Bearers are enslaved at birth, generally have no education or combat training, and channeling the magic themselves instead of a crystal like other people strains their body eventually killing them. Plus they have magic handcuffs that disrupt the flow of aether. So they don't really have the capacity to do much out of line before getting their throat slit by a guard, or even if they did manage to install themselves above normies, they'd just burnout from enforcing it.
Dominants and their big dick god powers are only enslaved by 1 faction, and everyone else in the world puts them in positions of power.
In FF16 it REALLY doesn't work if you think logically.
First of all, bearers are an important and vital resource; realistically, they should be well fed and treated with decency and not like rapidly disposable individuals. Because people like magic.
Second of all they can fricking use magic, and most other people can't.
This is the equivalent of a person with a shotgun that is always available, being a slave to a random dude with no real collateral.
It would MAYBE make sense if they revealed that the mark on them has a kill switch, but it doesn't.
Unironically, Tales of Arise did the whole "slavery" aspect more realistically than FF16, and that's not a compliment to ToA.
Slavery-centric stories usually fail because they're not really very slavery-centric. There's never really any kind of analysis of the characters and world affected on both sides of slavery, it's usually just our "good guys" realizing that slavery is bad actually and "bad guys" brutally oppressing and torturing slaves. And it's all usually just to frame the characters morally before the whole slavery angle is dropped or resolved quickly to move onto some big world-ending cataclysm that needs to be averted.
I've played it for like 10~ hours so far, but can't help but feel that this is a take on FFX story made by someone who only played MMORPGs. I see so many similarities, there is even an equivalent for the summoners' temples lol
>Unironically thinks that enslaving mages has anything in common with race-based slavery
If it has anyrthing to do with real world racism (it doesn't), it's as bad as the X-Men. With magic it's more about fearing danger and wanting to suppress it out of self-preservation, even if it means oppressing others.
and all the dominants are treated pretty well to make them not go apeshit. You can see it still taking its toll on Cid and Jill when they can't transform a bunch of times in a row. Bahamut goes like 30 seconds against Odin and needs a water break.
Except it makes 0 sense in the way it's used inside of the story.
They like magic, but hate people that can actually use it. They aren't afraid of magic users considering they get treated like garbage.
The magic users should easily have a way to fight back, especially considering it's not like they have family or anything that their owners can use as collateral, and helping their owners is LITERALLY killing them.
For a game I saw people saying was "dark and mature" compared to other Final Fantasy games Clive sure is your run of the mill anime character. He's an overpowered child of fate which is so tropey at this point I feel like I’ve seen the character 100 times before.
Every day we delay brings us closer to disaster. We must move now. Without blessing of our Mother Claire, we cannot defend Final Fantasy from the spread of the cringe. The last bastions of sexiness, feminity, beauty AND fertility. The last paragons of Pure, unfiltered and uncensored Beauty in this dying world - Claire and XIII girls - will return and I will wait for them until my last breath.
ambition
deep mythical kino lore and world
nice atmosphere,
crazy stories with time travelling back and forth, suicidal gods etc.
the most refined art direction in series
best girls
good thematic core and scenario ideas.
With proper, at least fricking working engine, sane production management and enough development resources FFXIII Remake and its sequels have infinite potential. You know it, I know it, everybody knows it.
>linear narrative which had a lot of dumb moments.
Storytelling in XIII was definitely poor, events planners did many debatable things in some key scenes, overall lines writing is barely bearable. But these are problems of storytelling, not general story design itself or its themes. It's a fixable thing.
XV was the most ambitious, let's be fair. It tried to be SO many things, and it failed at mostly all of them.
XIII is just... Fine. I think it's definitely overhated, but it still has problems. I dunno if I'd place it as worse than XII, though, and I fricking don't like XII at all.
Why Serah is the best girl (proof).
1) Serah is Pure Heroine. She sacrificed herself for saving the world due her unimaginable kindness.
2) Very smart (high IQ). She resolved all paradoxes in all possible timelines.
3) Loves her sister and boyfriend. She knew of her eventual death, yet continued as she promised Lightning not to stop until they were together again and had no regrets in the end.
4) Serah is cute (very important point).
5) Serah is beautiful (very important point).
6) Serah is cute and beautiful (from 4,5 by conjunction introduction)
7) She likes history (very cool) and is a straight-A student.
8) Serah is very strong and has powerful abilities. She has superb agility, jumping while firing her bows and skillfully performing backflips, similar to Lightning. Also a very powerful magician. -|
XV is probably the only mainline FF I'd consider incomplete. XVI has problems here and there but it's at least a finished video game. Same for XIII. Even after DLC, XV is a blatantly unfinished mess.
11 months ago
Anonymous
XV fascinates me because of the absolutely massive scale of content they do nothing of value with. They painstakingly designed and detailed at least two massive cities then used most of it for cutscenes and pretty backgrounds.
11 months ago
Anonymous
I don't even know where to pin the blame for something as fricked-up as XV. Tabata seems an easy scapegoat, but I'm more inclined to believe it's just overall mismanagement from the higher-ups.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Tabata was the one that said in interviews that he wanted the game to be beatable with one button because he sucks at games or something
11 months ago
Anonymous
It's why I really hate that they never released the proper mod tools they were going to, because just being able to noclop properly would have been worth an afternoon or two
11 months ago
Anonymous
xvi is more unfinished than anything in xv
11 months ago
Anonymous
16 literally is the most bug-free AAA Game in the last few years. Usually the go-to shitposting is posting bugs or animation frickups etc
Are you fricking moronic
if you fight a flying enemy in 7r then cloud or tifa auto jump to attack them
stop making excuses for bad game design
I said it was do-able, but it is a slog. It feels jank as frick for Cloud to go up and hit flying enemies unlike how Sora kinda glides upwards towards flying enemies. Especially when they start flying away and you go back down and have to run back to them and then once again go up for some jank air combat
11 months ago
Anonymous
>16 literally is the most bug-free AAA Game in the last few years. Usually the go-to shitposting is posting bugs or animation frickups etc
This isn't an achievement because 16 barely has content.
I thought it was odd how generic magic users were branded as slaves but then someone with an Eikon like Joshua or Clive with the Phoenix's blessing are somehow exempt from that same judgement.
>there's a lore entry about how Joshua gave Clive a bit of Phoenix magic because it's tradition in Rosaria for the Dominant to give the First Shield some magic
Why don't more Dominants do this? Why doesn't Cid load up his entire resistance with Ramuh power? I'm not very far in the game, but I don't think I've seen it really come up.
I told you homosexuals this shit was bad after the demo dropped and the entire "OMG MUH EPIC EIKONS FIGHT" was literally nothing but holding one button and pushing dodge three times, and you morons wouldn't hear any of it. So fricking glad I didn't preorder this garbage; hopefully it tanks and yoshitpiss gets fired and some new blood can take over XIV and maybe we'll actually get a decent game.
I don't hate fights that are more spectacle than gameplay, I just wish they were a BIT more. At least, to compare to KH2 for a moment, that game's cinematic moments were generally quick and paced well except for, like, the big finale attack from Xemnas which I think earns itself as a good show-stopper. It feels like every major fight in XVI is trying to do a show-stopper and it was frankly kind of embarassing how the second Ifrit fight was just capped off "mash square a few times".
Eh, that perfectly suits KH2 to me. It escalates for the finale, what's the problem there? Honestly KH3 felt incredibly underwhelming in comparison, despite all the weird space-folding shit Xehanort does in the final boss fight. You also don't just don't have the setpieces to break it up, it's just a long string of fights.
I agree with this, KH is known for crazy nonsense. The concept is literally Disney X FF. And yeah I wish the KH3 Xehanort fights were as spectacle filled.
That said, Remind fixed most of my non-plot related issues with KH3. The fights in that DLC are some of the best in gaming.
>It plays like an offline mmo, xenogay
Point me to an MMO with that level of character progression, party customization. An explorable world of that size, that is equally dense with content. As many npcs and character interactions.
It doesn't fricking exist. Offline MMO my ass.
If Xenoblade was actually an MMO, even if played offline. The combat would be ass due to having been designed for taking server latency into account.
And the entire design structure of the game would be different too, to promote players playing some every day for as long as possible, as opposed to consistent dramaturgical arcs for both gameplay and narrative.
Calling the Xenoblade games "offline MMOs" is pretty damn disingenuous. Why do people keep doing it?
The more I think about it... the more Jill feels absolutely non-existent outside of her arc in the mid game.
Major things are happening and Jill just doesn't speak. She just exists there to be Clive's vanilla love interest, but she literally has nothing for the most part. She's like a singular step above the likes of Lunafreya, and it pisses me off.
She's literally only a character when she has her personal scenes with Clive. Otherwise she's barely even acknowledged by the game. Genuinely feels like a late addition or something and they just didn't know what to do with her.
She was probably originally only supposed to join for the Iron Kingdom stuff and few other minor moments and added to rest of the game after the backlash for having no party members
All of the 'party members' feel incredibly limp in gameplay on that note. Torgal's a glorified launcher button/healbot (and I know dog party members don't necessarily show personality too much in RPGs, but Torgal has almost NOTHING after the prologue and his re-introduction, compare to shit like Repede), whereas everybody else is just... Vaguely there and at best drawing attention.
Her character is very much "love interest for Clive" first, and being an actual character second. She's like the M-rated version of Kairi, unironically. Great design, but goddamn it's like she never exists until it becomes plot relevant. It's also funny how she's fine with others treating Clive like shit because he's a bearer (I know that bearer sympathizers are hated, but she's a fricking dominant). And it's not like she has family aside from Clive.
KH leans into Advent Children too hard with the whole end of 2. Slicing buildings and shit is way too over the top.
Did you forget you're fighting a giant space-ship person at the end of 1?
>It's also funny how she's fine with others treating Clive like shit because he's a bearer (I know that bearer sympathizers are hated, but she's a fricking dominant)
i seriously rolled my eyes at the part after the second time skip where she calls a group of bearers "our kind"
>She's like a singular step above the likes of Lunafreya, and it pisses me off.
Is she really? As bland and boring as Luna was at least she had agency and was off doing stuff by herself instead of being tied to Clive while doing nothing. Ironically Jill acts more like a slave than Clive does.
That is literally just Tifa then, she doesn't exist except to have that childhood connection with Cloud and obviously loose "we must save the planet" stuff everyone is connected by.
Maybe in the OG, but Tifa has plenty of lines in Remake. Not to mention she has a vital role in the central event of the game, and she can exist separately from Cloud. Jill's entire childhood isn't really elaborated upon outside of ATL; her 13 years apart from Clive are barely elaborated upon. What major conflicts was she conscripted in? All we know is the empire used her, but how did they even know she was Shiva? What incident made her transform in the first place? Who taught her how to control her transformation?
The OG FF7 was made 25 years ago, so the standards are different. The only truly relevant main characters to the plot there were Aerith and Cloud.
>Empire used her
That was the Iron Kingdoms, who came in once they heard what happened at Phoenix Gate. Rosalith and Iron Kingdoms were already about to go to war which is the whole going of them going to the gate for muh tradition. Based on Benedikta and Joshua transforming due to trauma, and her saying those captured all the women, it was probably do to similar panic into transformation. Then as we clearly see they use hostages to make her act on their behalf. Considering everyone came out to see the Iron Kingdom finally marching on the Dhalmeks, its easy to presume they haven't used Shiva in a major conflict like this before.
>The OG FF7 was made 25 years ago, so the standards are different. The only truly relevant main characters to the plot there were Aerith and Cloud.
Its a written story, the standards go back thousands of years. Its one thing for Vincent and Yuffie because they are optional, despite Vincents story connections to Hojo, but you can't say the same for like Cid.
>Then as we clearly see they use hostages to make her act on their behalf. Considering everyone came out to see the Iron Kingdom finally marching on the Dhalmeks, its easy to presume they haven't used Shiva in a major conflict like this before.
Yes, the usage of hostages can explain when she first transformed; but it would've been good to see the first moment. And how the kingdom manage to suppress her. Eikon's are able to take on armies, and we already know from Clive and Joshua; it's not like you're instantly in control when you first transform. You have to learn to control it. So how did Jill learn to control it? Never explained.
No, in the OG. She's in almost every scene in the game and there's the whole chunk of disc 2 where Cloud is gone. Then there's the whole Junon prison segment that's all about her.
She does basically nothing until Aeris dies and Cloud gives the black materia to Sephiroth
11 months ago
Anonymous
What do you want or expect her to do lol? If your childhood friend you really liked came back after years and claimed to be at events you know they weren't part of you'd doubt your own sanity and be pretty quiet too.
>Then there's the whole Junon prison segment that's all about her.
Which is just her getting gassed, escaping and then having a slap fight. There's nothing actually character related there.
Brainlet. That's like saying Cid just swears and jumps, Aeris just dies and drops marbles, Barret just wobbles and shoots his gun, where are the characters bro lmao
>Then there's the whole Junon prison segment that's all about her.
Which is just her getting gassed, escaping and then having a slap fight. There's nothing actually character related there.
Everything about Tifa revolves around Cloud, which includes the part where he is stuck in a wheelchair and she goes off on the Huge Materia quest stuff. All that is still, muh cloud, muh planet. She doesn't really feel like a character.
because unlike Cloud, Clive gets over his shit pretty early and there is nothing to "support". They have the same goal and work towards it, which is making the world equal. 7's big story moment was never Aerith dying, it was Cloud being a schizo.
No, in the OG. She's in almost every scene in the game and there's the whole chunk of disc 2 where Cloud is gone. Then there's the whole Junon prison segment that's all about her.
She has screentime but isn't actually apart of the story. If you controlled Cid in those parts, literally nothing would change.
>Then as we clearly see they use hostages to make her act on their behalf. Considering everyone came out to see the Iron Kingdom finally marching on the Dhalmeks, its easy to presume they haven't used Shiva in a major conflict like this before.
Yes, the usage of hostages can explain when she first transformed; but it would've been good to see the first moment. And how the kingdom manage to suppress her. Eikon's are able to take on armies, and we already know from Clive and Joshua; it's not like you're instantly in control when you first transform. You have to learn to control it. So how did Jill learn to control it? Never explained.
It doesn't need to though? Its 13 years, years of training. How did Odin transform, learn his skills etc. This is the pointless JRPG padding that you get when you want a game to last 60 hours and need text boxes popping up to explain shit that in the moment will never matter. >And how the kingdom manage to suppress her
Hostages clearly, its not like these people are subtle when it comes to throwing around power. It also clearly takes a ton out of them, okay she blasts a ton of people as Shiva and flies away a bit. Then she transforms back to human and is physically exhausted and people run her down.
They aren't immortal, plenty of real soldiers or bearers dying to random throwing axes and shit early on.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>How did Odin transform, learn his skills etc
Speak for yourself, I would personally love more info on pretty much all of the non-allied dominants. As it is, the game hints at events in their past; but never expands on them in a satisfying manner. The villains just exist as roadblocks rather than actual people.
11 months ago
Anonymous
It honestly doesn't matter because dominants have been around for centuries and centuries at this point, the only thing different this generation is Ultima. We don't know anything about the previous versions of any of these dominants, why the world was at a stalemate. Why does the Crystalline Dominion have a mothercrystal but no dominant, is those hundreds of years old oaths and pacts with the Empire really all they were secured by? Jill is from the northern territories who got wiped out fully by the blight, but are dominants always born in specific areas etc. You can add tons more exposition but it would all be relegated to a random book like TES or lore dump somewhere
11 months ago
Anonymous
From what I gathered, Garuda was supposedly the eikon of the Crystalline Dominion.
11 months ago
Anonymous
So what, Cid just kidnapped her on a secret spy mission? If she had her powers, she wouldn't have been in that position to need saving. If she didn't have her powers yet, why was he all the way across the sea? It makes more sense that she was from some place on Waloed but since Barny conquered it all we have no different cultures or things to grasp onto from history.
>You can add tons more exposition but it would all be relegated to a random book like TES or lore dump somewhere
I would be fine with this. In fact I think it's what ATL should've been used for instead of very basic info on things you can already tell. Certain characters should've had a wikipedia length article on their background.
Octopath Traveler 2 had a bigger breakdown on several cities, locations, races, culture, lore all in a optional quest location compared to anything ATL provides info on.
and FF16 is targeting a much bigger, wider normie audience than Octopath. Divinity Original Sin has dozens of books and ain't no one fricking reading that garbage.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>and FF16 is targeting a much bigger, wider normie audience than Octopath. Divinity Original Sin has dozens of books and ain't no one fricking reading that garbage.
Who the hell cares if normies don't read OPTIONAL things. Normies probably give 0 shits about ATL as it is. And it sounds infinitely more interesting than sidequests covering the illogical way bearers are treated for the 30th time.
11 months ago
Emetfujowhobenches2plates4reps
Chances are Original Sin 2 sold way better XVI will ever lmao
11 months ago
Anonymous
>You can add tons more exposition but it would all be relegated to a random book like TES or lore dump somewhere
I would be fine with this. In fact I think it's what ATL should've been used for instead of very basic info on things you can already tell. Certain characters should've had a wikipedia length article on their background.
Octopath Traveler 2 had a bigger breakdown on several cities, locations, races, culture, lore all in a optional quest location compared to anything ATL provides info on.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>dude it's completely fine that XVI glosses over every piece of history that might be interesting and relevant to learning these characters better, that inexplicable 5 year timeskip was awesome!
Shut up
11 months ago
Anonymous
Game's trying to do too much at once it seems. It's trying to be a character study but it rushes to all the important development with timeskips to eventually reach to the end to resolve things with troony Kaguya because it's a mainline FF.
The sidequests having no acknowledgement of your party members feels weird. Like I get it's because they just made 1 version for doing them at any time in the story, and maybe I'm just spoiled after GoW:R having 2 entire sets of dialogue for every sidequest depending on who your companion is at the time.
It sticks out like a sore thumb though when immediately after setting up "If anyone asks, I'm an imperial bearer serving his noble lady," you run into a guy that's like "Damn, I can't ask for help from someone else's bearer. Or maybe I could, just make sure this coin gets passed along to your master," and Jill has no commentary whatsoever.
Just reached Titan, I think it's personally a 8.5/10 for me, maybe additional 0.5 just because its bug free and it should be fricking industry standard at this point.
Story wise? It's a little rushed here and there but its average standard JRPG. VA is fricking amazing all around though.
Gameplay? It's better than Bayonetta but doesn't even TOUCH to DMC standard. 2 Customizable abilities per Eikon is too small AND having fricking cooldowns??? Jesus christ. They should at least give 3 Customizable abilities OR 2 Customizable abilities with no cooldown but adjusted damage and stagger damage.
I think the gameplay is fine for now, and I'll plan on maxing everything then play in NG+ Hard Mode so I can finally make comparison between DMC and FFXVI (it's unfair to compare fully kitted out Dante/Nero/Vergil to early game Clive)
The music though... 10/10. I thought Soken is a fricking meme but he proved me wrong. Greatwoods theme got me hooked and it all went well from there.
But yeah, personally its a 8.5 so far simply its a GOOD 2023 AAA game that is also bug free, might rank it lower or higher once I finish the game on NG+ Final Fantasy mode
I have more fun with XVI than XIII and XV honestly so far
I feel like this game really needs superbosses, the combat is really fun but all the enemies are just too easy, and I'm not only talking about HP/damage values.
Why can't Squeenix just take the basic premise of a Bioware RPG and make it good? Several companions (an actual JRPG party, can you imagine that?), tons of party banter that reflects the progress you have made, reactive comments about different points of interest while going through areas, reactive comments to certain side quests instead of being completely mute about them... How this type of shit still eludes JRPGs for the most part is insane. I think XV actually had the party have more reactive commentary and banter, and I genuinely thought they'd improve on that the next game.
Honestly, the biggest failing in this game is the lack of a party that you can adventure with. And when you do get a party for a single moment, it's just Clive, Torgal + Jill/Joshua/random character of the day that fricks off in the end. It's not great especially when Jill and Joshua are boring as frick. Byron and Cid at least force Clive to be a little more entertaining.
Yeah that's what I would say. It has some extremely high highs, but it's very, very easy to notice it's flaws if you think about for even a second.
It's not bad, it's also not "omg this is the future of action rpgs or action games". It's very much video game Naruto: Shippuden, enjoyable; just don't think too hard and enjoy the fights.
Eh, I'd still say 88 is a bit too high. Once the spectacle wears off for people and more objective criticisms come in; it'll be closer to an 83-85 in terms of fan reception (critically it'll probably drop to 87 or 86 after EDGE comes out),
Like, I'll at least say this. It's nice to have an FF game come out and just be finished and at least pretty good with no real major hang-ups. I have my gripes with XVI, but it as least a complete video game unlike XV. Definitely not the direction I want the series to go (especially because it's too middle of the road with action and RPG that it feels like it doesn't exceed in either, and the moves take WAY too long to unlock, like you have Jill with you for so long why does Shiva take so long).
I think base XV had more content than XVI so what actually counts as complete at this point? XV had superbosses like the admantoise and optional dungeons with weapons to collect. XVI has none of that.
True. I'd say its one of the better games of 2023 if compare it to other 2023 launches. I think it deserves 88 simply because it's pretty polished and bug free despite of some letdowns in the gameplay and story.
There's only minor performance issue but I'm blaming it on PS5, besides its not as bad as Hogwarts, Forspoken and Jedi on release. Also all of those games are buggy as shit on release as well.
Amazing how having a polished, complete and generally bug free game at launch is considered as an accomplishment now.
>and the moves take WAY too long to unlock, like you have Jill with you for so long why does Shiva take so long
FF devs are casual gays, best way to play their modern action JRPGs is to just download a save file and play NG+. You can't do that on consoles of course so just wait for the PC release.
Because that's what Final Fantasy is. FF was never an RPG series, it's all about Moogles and Chocobos and various other trademarks. Without the names and homages, it's not Final Fantasy. What did you expect, an RPG? LOL
Final Fantasy is fundamentally about how there's something transcendent and eternal, that endures through things like the passage of time or death. That hack Yoshida doesn't get it though, and as a result CBU3s games are chockful of references because that's all dimwits like him think Final Fantasy is.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>FF8 poster has a moronic opinion presented as fact
True. I'd say its one of the better games of 2023 if compare it to other 2023 launches. I think it deserves 88 simply because it's pretty polished and bug free despite of some letdowns in the gameplay and story.
There's only minor performance issue but I'm blaming it on PS5, besides its not as bad as Hogwarts, Forspoken and Jedi on release. Also all of those games are buggy as shit on release as well.
It’s an action jrpg. Jrpg vs rpg is vastly different. Final fantasy has always been a series of having bigger numbers. You can always go back and play an older one or try out stranger of paradise. This one is really just the player trying to do wacky shit and kill the enemies as fast as possible.
just finished the game. skipped all the cutscenes since we followed the leaks and i just watched the cutscene collections on youtube separately. the story is a massive pile of turd so i'm not really interested in it.
gameplay is way too easy and allows for very little. you can juggle opponents in a nice manner but there is not much technical stuff involved to make something interesting out of it. every ability later on gets even more cinematic than the ones before. Odin is really just pathetic to a point where it feels like the game is doing all the work. Ramuh was the most interesting thing to get to have "zoning" abilities for more versatility. but even that is doing the job on it's own with lock-on features ripped off from BbS/KH3. not much to do there yourself.
overall with how generous the time windows and ability potency are it felt like a movie game trying to pretend it's DMC. i'm sure people will find their appeal with it if they put their mind into it. but i honestly can't. might as well play a real DMC game while i'm at it. it looks complex and tricky on the surface but the game really feels like it's playing itself a lot of the time.
now for the grand controversial take that will make everyone seethe: i liked FFXV a lot more tbh. that game (with all it's flaws) at the very least had it's own identity. XVI feels like it's borrowing shit from everywhere and never doubles down on something. i will try the hard mode or whatever and give the Bloody Palace thing a swing. but i don't think i will stick to this game all too long.
>it felt like a movie game trying to pretend it's DMC
this. perfectly summed up in few words. it's probably because it's a Sony exclusive but it's trying way too hard to handhold you in all aspects just to be more appealing to a broader audience. this game is really not satisfying in any shape or form if you are into DMC or similar complex games.
Also nobody, whether casual or hardcore, wants their first, standard difficulty playthrough of a DMC game to take more than 30 hours, with a big chunk of that being cutscenes and fetch quests. It shouldn't take that long in a game like this to unlock every ability
I liked XV more
I only just beat Titan, but that's my take too. I like XIII and XV more than this. The highs are high, but the lows are just awful, and way more abundant, and at this point in the game I just sleepwalk my way through the combat waiting to get to the next cutscene. For every 15 minutes of amazing fricking KINO, you can expect another 3 hours of drawn out dogshit. I hate it.
the sheer arrogance of these mmoBlack folk kek
He should resign out of shame at the least. Seppeku is better. But he has no honor and thus feels no shame.
SE follows a basic cycle. >push one big project as the flagship of the company at the expense of everything else >big project eats shit >cost is recouped with smaller side projects people actually like >repeat
XIV has outlived several of their "real flagship games" and continues being the primary source of their funding. Squeenix executives are just extremely out of touch.
I feel like party members are non-existent and do nothing, despite sometimes throwing out some particle effects every now and then.
Unironically, I think I'd like if more action RPGs used Hi-Fi rush as a party members essentially being customizable assists with different properties depending on what you need.
They do shit, they barely do damage to heavy enemies but I noticed they 2/3-shot most thrash enemies. With the exception of some boss battles like the Dragoon and Aevis where Cid actually kills the Aevis by himself.
>Unironically, I think I'd like if more action RPGs used Hi-Fi rush as a party members essentially being customizable assists with different properties depending on what you need.
So, Scarlet Nexus?
Very minor nitpick, actually, but does it feel like the game is 'trying too hard' to be FF to anybody else? Like it makes WAY too heavy use of the Prelude and the classic FF theme, for one... Not to mention the book Joshua writes in the epilogue is literally called Final Fantasy. It feels weirdly self-indulgent? Like they carried over a lot of the same concepts from XIV in that regard, but XIV is in part a celebration of the series, whereas XVI is just its own thing, ostensibly.
Because that's what Final Fantasy is. FF was never an RPG series, it's all about Moogles and Chocobos and various other trademarks. Without the names and homages, it's not Final Fantasy. What did you expect, an RPG? LOL
>make game where everybody agrees combat is the best part, as well as the spectacle of kaiju fights >also throw in hours of tedious side quests
Why didn't they just make a tight action game a la DMC
That's what I'm wondering. I would have been fine with a 30 hour Final Fabtasy with nice setpieces and huge kaiju fights. Instead they drew it out to 50 with garbage.
You'll miss nothing because 90% of the cutscenes don't advance the story at all. They come in exactly two flavors: cutscenes where you as a player understand what is going on but the characters don't and just act confused, and cutscenes where the characters understand what is going on but you as a player don't and there will be no explanation because frick you. Both of these are equally irritating as frick, and it's very obvious that Yoshida's mystery novel fetish conflicts with his Matsuno fetish. None of the political intrigue matters because it's all just background noise that's only ever barely used to explain why you'll be going to the next area. Any interest you might have had in what the hooded man, Joshua, Ultima, etc. are actually doing is completely eroded after seeing them in a dozen fricking cutscenes that fail to move any closer to an answer. Nearly all attempts at character development are ruined by boilerplate japanese melodrama and boil down to either 'character dies' or 'presumed dead character is alive'.
That sucks to hear. I was at least hoping the game would have a great story and be consistent given the absence of everything else that makes a good FF. It sounds like there's no superbosses or really good side content to make new game+ even worthwhile either.
Picture this >Your at the gates of the Final boss >You play as Clive + 3 or 4 other party members of your choice >Your character pool is Joshua, Jill, Cid, Benna, Hugo, Dion or Barnabas as Sakaguchi intended
I guess it`s just another attempt to appeal to a wider audience. That`s been like the one observable constant in SE strategy regarding the IP since around the merger (when they started making movies, sequels, prequels and online games). It`s honestly not surprising at this point.
I was so disappointed that the dialogue was filled with FRICK SHIT and other modern cancer. I was initially so intrigued that we would get something similar to XII's quality:
Say what you want about XII's gameplay, but I absolutely loved the cutscenes and dialogue.
Forgot to mention: I know that the sad reality is if they attempted to do something similar to the dialogue in XII you just know "modern audiences" would hate it because "people" are so much more moronic compared to 2006.
Active Time Lore is cute but they should've stolen Active Time Events from IX. So far XVI is really missing those little, frivolous moments of characterisation which get you attached to a character.
Cause zoomers hate rpg
>Waifu VN game
Have you seen the average Persona fan, Anon?
So you're saying turn based gays are losers? Another W for real time chads.
cope
zoomers love turn based jrpgs
16 was made for geriatric boomers with le mature medieval europe theme
I really hope those asshats at Square are happy with their normalgay audience
This, lol. Reading about zoomer tards that can't understand turn based games always gets a chuckle out of me.
>we want the DMC audience
Funnily enough, even DMC has elemental weaknesses, which this game can’t even boast.
Wait, there's no elemental properties at all?
No, here is the dev's justification for that.
lmao, what a bunch of fricking morons, this game sounds like dogshit
hold up, there's clearly fire,aero,blizzard, etc. magics. There must be weaknesses? all of these act the same way otherwise
they are all just vfx reskins of each other, no stat different and there's no elemental properties
you can literally beat ifrit with fire "magic"
the "magic" is just dmc blue rose gun projectile reskinned
He isn't wrong though. If you are facing a flying enemy without Barret in 7R, and are unlucky to not have the correct weakness available because you can't swap mid-combat, the fight is do-able but a massive slog. Oh you have Garuda, Phoenix and Titan? This guy is weak to lighting you dumbass who can't predict the future of what you might fight.
Just flee from combat moron and re-equip. AFAIK there's no boss that's going to happen with where you don't have at least 1 part member who can hit it.
Are you fricking moronic
if you fight a flying enemy in 7r then cloud or tifa auto jump to attack them
stop making excuses for bad game design
That's why Yuffie was the best character in 7R
Joke is on you cause we are waiting for Dragon Dogma II. The REAL game by the creators of Devil May Cry series.
hideki kamiya worked on dragon's dogma?
Then they should have given Clive crazy weapons like Cerberus, Nevan or Cavaliere.
How is it any different from Lightning Returns?
It isn't, and it's just as linear as the 13 games too
The main thing that makes ffxi so much better than 13 is that the combat isn't turn based. Turn based is excusable when there's exploration and tons of Easter eggs (and a good story). But if a game is gonna be linear it better have good combat+good story. Ffxvi has both so I will play it to completion whereas I put down 13 within 2 or 3 hours.
you should have bought the season pass while you had the chance.
I hear a lot of complaining about the cutscenes, but I don't see how you could make an FF game without them.
Square Enix have been hiring western consultants and market analysts (these are people who don't play video games).
They told them "nobody wants RPG's and if you make an RPG nobody will buy it so don't you dare do that".
The first 6 games didn't have cutscenes and they were the best games in the series.
>The first 6 games didn't have cutscenes
Maybe play them again
>5 people standing around and talking with dialog boxes coming up
Guess what, that was a cutscene. Gears of War walk and talk radio scenes, yup, a cutscene.
ff1 had a cutscene for walking across a bridge
>The first 6 games didn't have cutscenes and they were the best games in the series.
4 is my favorite and you're fricking lying, moron.
>The first 6 games didn't have cutscenes
moron
text boxes
>make it a "character action game"
>can’t even juggle bosses
>they don’t even have a variety of hit reactions either
>stagger bar system is as basic as it gets
It’s why they couldn’t even decide what direction they wanted so they just went with this half-assed in-between that doesn’t satisfy anyone on either side.
Juggling bosses is gay
t. homosexual
If it's gay to juggle bosses, then I'm a ginormous homosexual.
there's action games where you can juggle bosses? You can't really do it in hi-fi rush, or even most DMC fights. Juggles all come from gays in training mode overhyping the games flexibility in combo videos.
Kingdom Hearts, some DMC fights, TWEWY games, Bayonetta, a lot of Tales games, Odin Sphere, God Hand, etc…
Man, thanks for reminding me that I need to replay KH2. Love that game.
Most of the bosses in almost all of the games you cited do not allow juggling.
Have you actually tried getting good?
How did SE lose its touch?
>some DMC fights
Are there any juggleable bosses in DMC that don't break out of it in like 3 seconds? Vergil always does and I can't even think of many others you can launch in the first place.
ok you got me, but I feel this is an exception. Data fights in KH2 and even the ones in the kh3 dlc are just so much fricking fun.
Funny thing is they were able to put in enemy juggle into remake you could do some crazy things with Tifa, no idea why they didn't add that into XVI
Yeah I like the stagger mechanic in FF7R way better. It's so much more impactful, and the numerous stagger materia and skills in the game make it far more satisfying and tactical. I really don't understand why XVI copied it so halfassedly
Its basically the same shit, except that game has elemental weaknesses so its easier to stagger in general.
Juggling bosses is only okay if the game doesn't put a bandaid of giving them superarmor or an exit. If I am juggling, let me fricking juggle. Don't give the boss an escape mid combo because uhhh can't let you have TOO much fun. Which is basically what they do for Vergil in 3 and 5, you can juggle to a small extent
I think Dante in 4 was a good blend, he doesn't have a get out of jail free card but his physics are tuned in a way that it's hard to do for long.
Not to mention his boss battle seems like it uses 0 scripts lol, it just flows beginning to end as if you're playing against a second player
Despite FF13 being pretty controversial, I actually think it handles the concept of stagger pretty well too considering how you can launch enemies into the air when they’re staggered and do all kinds of crazy shit. In FF7R, enemies will react to some weaknesses by being pressured, which opens them up to being staggered quicker, and on top of that, your attacks all have different properties that better lend them to both pre and post-staggering. Firing off magic to pressure an enemy, then a focused thrust to confirm a stagger, using Tifa’s triangle move to increase the damage ratio, before popping off a high damage attack to cash out, and more. And that combo won't always work since different enemies have different criteria for staggering sometimes, and also your party composition differs based on the part of the game. In FFXVI’s case, it opens them up to free damage and lets you fire all your cooldown moves off, which feels less interesting to me.
Suzuki is not very good at his job. Sure he worked on DMC5 together with 15 other people, but all his other games have shit combat.
>Dragon's Dogma
No, you are wrong
>can’t even juggle bosses
Why is this a bad thing?
Funnily enough, there is more "RPG" elements in a Souls game like Elden Ring that there is in FFXVI.
Let that sink in for a moment
Dark souls and elden ring have always been RPGs because the way you build your character and the stats actually matter tho, who's the moron saying they aren't
What is so hard to understand? Final Fantasy (that is strictly speaking, a franchise that represent the J-RPG category) have less "RPG" element than the Souls franchise, which is usually, closer to the A-RPG than traditional RPG.
You can play a Soul game and finish it without touching anything RPG related in it. Now try that on an old Final Fantasy, try finishing FF9 without upgrading and leveling anything, see how it turns out.
Keep seething, macaco
>What is so hard to understand?
nothing, making it an inane thing to smugly point out because literally no one in the world has ever disputed it and you're not smart
>world has ever disputed it and you're not smart
If FF16 was a proper turn based game and was using back the old formula, it would have more "RPG" elements than a Soul game.
My point is, the FF franchise, with FF16, reached a situation where they have even lower "RPG" elements than an A-RPG, that same A-RPG that is borderline more Action than RPG (as opposed to let's say, the witcher).
Why the frick do I need to explain all of this?
What RPG elements would you have liked added then? Cause I have to be honest, the franchise has always just been about padding your stats so your damage numbers will be higher
Elemental weaknesses would have been an easy one and also very easy to make complex.
Status effects also something easy to implement and get creative with on different enemy types, also debuffs.
Some kind of buff, at least regenerative heals.
Non-linear skill trees for decision making.
Itemization that doesn’t involve linear damage increases though this is hard to ask for when you barely have stats to begin with.
I think the most important thing for me is that I want the Eikon abilities to matter more than just being DMC styles. Like I want them to have some narrative significance in how they play.
One thing I actually like A LOT about DMC is how they've ended up using the gameplay to express how a character thinks and behaves. Virgil's play-style rewards you for being more precise and collected than Dante's playstyles.
>Elemental weaknesses would have been an easy one and also very easy to make complex.
>Status effects also something easy to implement and get creative with on different enemy types, also debuffs.
>Some kind of buff, at least regenerative heals.
These are not RPG mechanics but combat mechanics. Buffs, debuffs, or elemental weaknesses are not unique to RPGs.
>Non-linear skill trees for decision making.
That could have been interesting, but considering the replayability of these games are already poor because of a lack of player choice I honestly prefer having selectable skill combos over having parts of the skill tree barred on a playthrough
>Itemization that doesn’t involve linear damage increases though this is hard to ask for when you barely have stats to begin with.
Unfortunately I don't think this has been part of the franchise for a while
Those are RPG mechanics, I dont care for your definition of it
5, 7, 8, 9, 10 and 12 are the only ones with actual alright RPG systems. In 6 you just stick espers onto people which gives extra stuff on level up and unlocks magic for them. Which means ridiculous grinding, which is sorta what 9 does aswell with the AP stuff with equipment unlocking passives
>Dark souls and elden ring have always been RPGs because the way you build your character and the stats actually matter tho, who's the moron saying they aren't
building a character is less of an rpg than this, rpg's aren't number and stat builders despite what you moronic autistic number cum guzzlers think. It's about playing a character. The stats are just supposed to set the rules and boundaries for the game.
How can it be less of an RPG? Clive will always be dude with sword who uses Eikons and always follows the exact same linear path through the game. Your build in a souls game can completely lock off gameplay choices and open new ones, or make it possible to go through areas another build/class couldn't.
kys
Dark Souls/Elden Ring are more RPGs than 99% of JRPGs on the market.
How is that surprising? 99% of JRPGs don't even let you allocate points on level up.
stupid frog poster
How is that funny you moronic frog. Soulslikes are supposed to be heavily rpg focused
VTMB and Planescape are RPGs, Final Fantasy is Star Wars but with medieval crystals.
>gets violently raped to death
>"I deserve this just punishment, as do all women who don't obey their husbands"
What did Yoshi-P mean by this?
No way she didn't really say that?
What really happens is that her group gets killed off while she's in shock that MC stole her powers and relegated her to irrelevancy.
Then when she snaps out of her trance like state the bandits who ambushed her group get ready to have their fun I guess, and their hand(s?) reaching out to her reminder her of how Cid, her-ex, reached his hand to her after saving her from bandits, when they first met.
She then said some shit like, "is this what I deserve all because I didn't listen to you?" (He wanted to run off with her from the group they were once all apart of but she stayed). Then she starts to loose it in a fit of rage because of how tragic things turned out for her and turns into Mindless Garuda
Being at the ground zero of a fricking nuclear blast isnt considered rape anon
she turns into Garuda, so no they don't rape her.
I would betray everything for her, god almighty she's so hot.
>no rpg elements
>play as the role of Clive in the game
>Mario Bros
>play as the role of Mario in the game
Woah...
>Super Mario RPG
>play as the role of Mario is the game
Yes.
I hope we get a Final Fantasy RPG someday.
its going to be a hacked up slopjob shined up with a whole crate of turd polish, and the people making it suck butthole for fun, what the hell did you expect? These threads are pointless and already repetitive before the game is even out, Ganker just keeps sucking more and more every year
>GOTY!!
>hmmm roasted chicken
this made boomers piss and shit themselves in 1997
it really did
before ff7 i played fricking atari games
It sure did and it's still pretty good looking to this day too.
that's a really sturdy chocobo.
How the frick is that thing not dead?
Yes because final fantasy has always been known for its realistic combat. A band of 3 girls (one of them being like 13 or something) and 1 rail thin guy with the homosexual coke head look is obviously capable of fighting the literal personification of the infinite void in space and winning after withstanding literally being set on fire, struck by lightning, bitten by beasts 50x their size blown up, and literally killed and brought back to life a gazillion times for years and that's completely based in reality
chainsaws
>limit break used to be exceedingly cool special moves
>Often with special mechanics (slots, trigger on attack, fighting game inputs, inputs plus chaining with other party members, etc.)
>now you just glow and get a flame border on your screen
MMO devs...
The game sucks, but I would have killed that chicken in less than 2 seconds if I was in overdrive mode. The combat is good and easy, I just think most people can't wrap their head around how to combo. Hint: if you're still using the basic attack after the tutorial (or even the attack/burst/attack/burst) you're playing like shit.
redpill me on ff16 combat
Not Dante
It's ok. Definitely overhyped by the game devs and even journo's/impression people. I fully expect in a month, we'll get a big action youtuber making a video of where 16's combat falls short and the reaction will be "yeah, that's true".
Cooldown-based special moves is a fricking baffling choice in an action game without good enough of a core moveset to justify it. Clive's base move-set is REALLY piddly-feeling and the special moves are too good in comparison. Feels like they should have either given Clive more tools or made the cooldowns based on dealing damage or something, or just use a KH1-esque MP system at least. Cooldowns with no way to manipulate them seems like the most boring way to do it.
Something as simple as "dealing damage gives a slight decrease to cooldown on all your abilities" would make the game feel MUCH more aggressive and fun.
Yeah, it's weird to have cooldowns in the first place, but if you're gonna have them, let them be manipulated. I think they already have the combo system so that continuous combos increase your damage or something, right? Just tie that into cooldown reduction too, there you go, you now have a style meter that actually matters.
Cooldowns for attacks aren’t inherently bad. Just look at the TWEWY games. Since they’re tied to your only means of attacking (the pins), resource management is a core part of the combat and there are multiple ways to manipulate them. What also works in TWEWY’s case is how the cooldowns are related towards building up the power of the light puck or building up Groove. If you just spam, you’ll be missing out on less opportunity to build up the puck for more damage since it can eventually go away if you’re not doing consistent finishers and in NEO, Groove rapidly depletes if you’re not doing Beatdrops consecutively. There are in-game battle goals that reward you immensely for properly managing your meters and adds an extra layer of depth to the combat.
I'm aware cooldowns can be executed well. They're just not in XVI because they're flat cooldowns (I think some accessories can reduce specific ones?) with no functionality besides waiting. For a VERY action-heavy game with minimal resource management, it feels a very limp approach.
NEO: TWEWY did this great, and it also helps that there are plenty of pins in the game that are related to "set-up" so that OTHER pins can capitalize on them. And none of the cooldowns on pins feel as long as FF16.
Yeah. As it is right now, FF16's combat system is really reminiscent of KH:BBS (but better designed ofc). The emphasis is on super flashy moves that require a single button to use. Player expression is extremely limited because outside of your eikon abilities... Clive has the same 6 moves for a 30 hour game.
Yeah, that's the main part, TWEWY's cooldowns are also incredibly fast for most moves, only really really big moves actually have anything noticeable. You're incentivised to have a variety of moves that you keep switching between too. With XVI, the moves are just "use 'em when you got 'em" and then flail around for a bit with basic b***h moves. The BBS comparison is apt to a point, though BBS at least let you have a lot more to play with and moves were better for more than just hitting more.
You also have like 3 methods of recharging your pins throughout a long chain
>Killer Remix
Instantly charges up your pins after you use it, guaranteeing that you get back into the fray.
>Leaving an pin idle will recharge your pin overtime
Which is particularly useful for Psychs like Shockwave, Vulcan Uppercut, and Vortex Saber, who allows you to use the full combo and get to the finisher regardless of how much charge you have. There are also Psychs like Firestorm that only requires you to inflict the burn effect in order to activate its Beatdrop, which you can augment with Ailing Enemies and as well as Water pins with the ability Take Five, which drastically increases reboot time if left alone in a deck with other pins still ready to be activated.
>Finally, pins recharge between rounds
Which encourages you to be as aggressive as possible and finish rounds so that you won’t spend too much time on one when you’re going for a high battle rank.
This isn’t even getting into how you can just use the accessories that speed up boot/charge time or use pins with less reboot times and cooldown in a deck.
>resource management is a core part of the combat
lole
You literally just have to keep juggling and if you know what to do you never need to look at the yellow bars. Bullets make this very easy, and then just add melee or patrol shots or whatever while holding blackhole/ghost swords on cd.
And you just press all buttons at once if there's only one enemy left.
I like the game but don't say it's some complex high IQ shit. Practically the only thing that you need to care about is the order of your pin activations so the active character isn't the one stuck in place doing a blackhole or some shit.
>You literally just have to keep juggling and if you know what to do you never need to look at the yellow bars.
Except enemies have their counters break out far more often when you’re chaining multiple encounters, which is pretty important to consider due to how long chains are how you get a lot of the cool shit you’ll want in NEO.
>Bullets make this very easy, and then just add melee or patrol shots or whatever while holding blackhole/ghost swords on cd. And you just press all buttons at once if there's only one enemy left.
Ignoring the fact that black holes don’t work on shit like mammoths, dinos, and a lot of the bosses, juggling enemies infinitely isn’t even possible considering how they tend to fall down and gain super armor when they hit the yellow flash and thus immunity to hit states unless you’ve used status effects beforehand.
>Practically the only thing that you need to care about is the order of your pin activations so the active character isn't the one stuck in place doing a blackhole or some shit.
As well as synergy between your pins, whether or not they’ll work on certain enemies, how to make sure that they don’t bust out of your combos too often, enemy types that will knock your shit around if you’re too idle (jellies, wolves that like to do their lightspeed dashes, puffers and their bombs and traversal speed, scorpions and their poison clouds and sniping capabilities, chameleons in general, birds liking to pelt your ass with feathers and bind your party members, etc…), and more. Enemies in NEO actually force you to do different things.
>Cooldowns for attacks aren’t inherently bad.
They are. It's a pointless limitation that gatekeeps you from experimenting freely. It's just a lousy way to artificially spike up the difficulty or put less effort into balancing enemies/bosses around your arsenal. You go ahead and see a nice resource management in it. But people don't play over-the-top combo-heavy action games to manage resources. They play those games to break limits get better at them and make the impossible possible. Cooldowns are either pointlessly haltering your process for these goals for additional hours or gatekeep you from it entirely. It's a gacha money eater mechanic to sell you faster cooldowns. It doesn't belong to vidya
>he isn’t able to experiment anyway
Sounds like a skill issue to me.
Why don't you just play fricking smart phone games while you're at it? Don't taint home console games with your gacha mechanics.
Cooldowns have been a part of games since fricking DnD. Don’t blame the mechanic itself for gacha games using them badly when games like TWEWY actually show that you can do them well.
>since DnD
not a video game and you need to go back. games the way we know were inspired by arcade machines. they had little to no limitations and you got better at them with sheer skill. incentivized by the idea of making the most out of your coin.
DnD shit is an american trait with games like Oblivion and Fable bein the role model. they literally run on numbers and values and on nothing else. your actions in comparison matter way less in comparison. that's where we got now with modern vidya relying way too much on aspects that have very little to do with actual interactivity. people these days value story over gameplay and a shitty DnD system that couldn't be further from vidya is the perfect way to appeal to them
>But people don't play over-the-top combo-heavy action games to manage resources
You do realize that meter management is a staple in a large majority of action games, right?
Not in the the way TWEWY does it. Dante doesn't have cooldown for his Stinger or for any other of his basic Attack tools. He sure has Meter Management for Devil Trigger but he can do normal attacks as much as he wants to
cooldown =/= meter management
a lot of you are really just absolute nugay tourists binge watching youtube combos all day instead of playing yourself
I play plenty of action games. Don’t lump me in with your projecting ass.
you absolutely don't if you put meter management on the same boat as cooldowns. i'm not going to spoonfeed you on why this is wrong. you would know if you weren't a fricking poser
I play games like God Hand, DMC, Bayonetta, OG God of War, etc…
Again, don’t lump me in with your projecting ass.
NEO TWEWY also had side content that was actually worth it and gave you good rewards.
So it is a JRPG after all
*slurpee
> We barely need stats
> We don't need status ailments
> We don't need elemental weaknesses/strengths
> We don't need skill/magic variety
> We don't need mana/stamina systems
> We don't need Black folk, but we add homosexuals instead
> We don't need active exploration
> We don't need good sidequests
> We don't need secrets around the world
> We don't need turns, it's time to evolve
> RPG evolution is just turning into Devil May Cry
It’s time accept the rope barry. Your coping won’t stop its success.
>muh Barry
I think FFXV is shit. Doesn’t mean I won’t think the same of FFXVI.
>being mindbroken by Barry
It's funny that you hate him given he's just a reflection of every FF fan nowadays
What success? its currently 3.2/5 and its price dropped massively
Why do you lie on the internet about something that can be easily checked?
What lie you moron? its literally in the image
I'd enjoy it even more if it was just a linear action game. Delete all the side quests and weird open field areas that are just there to waste my time.
I had alot of confidence in this game but i dont even think i'll finish it at this point. The story just feels kinda dull, Clive and Cid are carrying while Jill doesn't even emote or say anything. So many games with slavery allegories just never hit for me, they want make me feel sad but it just doesn't work.
It's just strange how they went out of the way to make Clive himself a slave but he never really seems to care about it. Obviously he has some trauma from the experience but it's just kind of brushed over.
I think the only way to make a player understand what the in-universe slave goes through is to make them play the part in the story. FF16 just timeskips through all that shit
There probably should've been at least 1 scene of him in the Empire and some shit with his slave suicide squad before immediately timeskipping to him deserting
Having him do one different mission with Tiamat's squad before meeting Jill and Torgal again immediately would have made it feel a little less contrived.
Final Fantasy has always had a problem with its RPG system only being
>add more points to stat to do higher damage numbers
Explain to me how the RPG mechanics are supposed to make one playthrough of FFXV supposed to be different from the next?
Not true at all
FF has actually been pretty good about its RPG systems letting you create different party compositions with differing specialties
The very first game is pretty well known for how varied your party load out can be
I'd also argue the important part of an RPG is its storytelling through gameplay, more than story or gameplay on their own.
An RPG can have a dog-shit story but if they use gameplay in an interesting way to express character development or personalities or what's happening in the broader story, then I'd say it's doing a good job
Are we still pretending any of that shit has ever mattered in FF games of the past?
one mage based run
one tank based run
one level 1 based run
etc
all that is dependant on weapon builds
one sword run
one gun run
one ROYAL arm only
one machine run
etc
ff16 has no builds
What on earth do you mean? You're playing as a particular character. Was FFVII not an RPG because your choices only influenced whether you dated Tifa or Aeris?
Are there multiple endings or not
No moron.
How the frick do you leave that combat trainong area the game forced me to enter
you guys think this game would've been easy goty if it wasn't a numbered ff game and they just made it an action focused spin off instead? I'm so close to having fun with it but the pacing of the story and shitty side quests completely bog it down.
It has no goty chance either way. Not being a mainline would simply make it sell 90% less, since people will buy anything that is a mainline so they are caught up in the "lore".
It wouldn't even be considered for GOTY unless it was numbered (either as a remake or a new entry).
Game Awards rarely look at spinoffs when giving out prestige
True, but I still stand by that this game would've been amazing if it just simply focused on being action oriented. It feels like they had some rpg mechanics planned but gave up early on development and just left them in. The portions where you're traveling in a world map and doing crappy quests suck so bad. This game is great when they toss you in a story dungeon
Oh, I agree
To some degree, that's the freedom Strangers of Paradise had.
They didn't have the TRIPLE A expectations hanging over their head, nor the legacy to live up to. So they ultimately got to mess around more and take more risks.
FFXVI may seem like a "risk" for a series that has traditionally been menu-based combat but it's actually very safe if you look at general market trends for big tentpole releases
The shills for this "game" really outdid themselves this time.
nier automata shits on this game so hard its not even fricking funny. t. 15 hours into ffxvi
God, are you homosexuals going to hate every new FF in the future?
Are XV and XIII going to be good now?
Are you morons?
Blame SE, they're the ones giving the title to the wrong games for sales
XIII was always decent it just had lightning stigma and linear sphere grid
Yes, probably. At least until they get more of the old guard back that worked on 4, 5 and 6
Having just beaten XIII, it had a LOT of issues I can't fricking stand
>half the game has you working with a sub-full party and doesn't even let you choose party members or give you many alternate paradigms to let you spec them into
>item progression is never really properly explained or even insinuated through menu design.
>Gran Pulse is filled with unpleasant backtracking and running around whilst doing aimless side quests
>Eidolons could have been more useful
It had its good points but the way it split its party to the point of just not having a proper full party for most of the game was INFURIATING given how the combat system only really opens up with 3 party members with at least 3 paradigms unlocked each
Adult Jill is boring
She really is, I don't know if it's just her shitty britbong VA or if it's the character itself but she is so boring everytime she is on screen, not cute at all
voice actress isn't the problem, Jill simply doesn't speak or do anything. Character is boring as shit in JP too
It really stood out to me, at the part where you go to destroy the first Mothercrystal, and while Clive and Cid are talking and doing stuff every cutscene Jill is just standing there in the background or not even on camera at all and then when Typhon comes out and tries to grab Clive she does nothing and Cid has to do something. Does she even use her Dominant powers in a cutscene once before the second time skip?
the weirdest part is she often isn't even acknowledged by other characters, Clive will have a discussion with someone else and it's like she isn't even there, nobody reacts to her and she is also saying nothing, it's weird
Jill isn't with Clive before the point of no return for the second time skip, so all the sidequests are written as if you did them them during that brief period with Jill absent
>the dog is more relevant
Pedophile
>has little to no RPG elements
It has dogshit gameplay that's a staple of RPGs.
Yo wtf belts and bracers are useless in this game https://www.reddit.com/r/FFXVI/comments/14h7q14/clives_hp_with_armor_1007_vs_without_armor_998 whats this low effort attempt at a rpg
The only thing that matters in a JRPG is story.
The only RPG gameplay in JRPG is spamming attack to grind levels to spam attack less.
i dont care about story, just give me good gameplay systems and level design, both of which 16 lacks.
game has has issues but that titan battle against typhoon was kino. They really just should've removed all those dogshit quests inbetween, game would be so much better paced.
So actually commit to being a character action game?
Absolutely, It's fun to control and play. The shoehorned rpg garbage bogs the game down so badly it's unfortunate.
You think the game would have been better if Clive had multiple different weapons? Ex: a dragoon spear/lance. From what I seen of ff16 the combat looks fun but I don't like that when human size enemies get staggered they just stay in play when you keep attacking them. Them getting knock around a bit would be more satisfying in my opinion.
Access to all abilities at once would be cool too,
If you want to be DMC be DMC
Yeah
>Clive only having one weapon doesn't feel right,
I see
>they also don't have specific inputs for moves which means you're locked to only 2 at a time for each eikon.
I thought it was 3 moves? LB has two and circle has one?
>Torgal also has a launcher, but his other 2 slots are basically useless. They could've put 2 useful things there.
Does Clive not have a normal launcher himself? I know one of his eilkon abilities has a launcher.
Clive does have launching methods, but torgal has the conventional one that just launches enemies up.
I don't wanna be too harsh since I haven't unlocked all the mechanics yet, but yeah he was too confident in this. I already said it but Clive having one weapon is so awkward, especially since this is a action game with one playable character.
>Clive does have launching methods
So he only has launchers tied to his eilkon abilities?
>but torgal has the conventional one that just launches enemies up.
I see
> but yeah he was too confident in this.
I wouldn't be surprised if SE paid him to hype it up.
>I already said it but Clive having one weapon is so awkward, especially since this is an action game with one playable character.
Does Clive's sword act differently when in whatever his super mode/dt is called? Like Nero's Exceed extends or boost red queen moves/combos?
It does, Clive's attacks have different properties in his DT. He can launch with his projectiles, or you can charge your melee, jump then do it airborne which launches.
Nice.
>So he only has launchers tied to his eilkon abilities?
No. Both his charged normals are launchers.
Yes, gameplay is great but not amazing. The combat director hyped up the game so much but there's lots to be desired. Clive only having one weapon doesn't feel right, they also don't have specific inputs for moves which means you're locked to only 2 at a time for each eikon.
Torgal also has a launcher, but his other 2 slots are basically useless. They could've put 2 useful things there.
>The combat director hyped up the game so much
To a shameful degree honestly, pretty much calling it his magnum opus and shit
He was brought on a hype-man, transparently. I am amused that such a move worked on some anons.
KEK
Indeed lool
Clive is for sure better than Nero and V. You just can't compete with multiple weapons that Dante has with just one. Very surprised there wasn't a mid game switch up to get Cid's weapons, even God of War did it twice with the Blades then the Spear.
He 100% isn't better than Nero lol.
He could've easily been, had he more than just some basic 4 hit combo and generic charged attacks.
I think you forget how much Nero could actually do.
Clive should've had Exceed timings on his attacks so that you could vary up his moveset.
>He 100% isn't better than Nero lol.
He 100% is. Nero is missing a lack of options, and Clive has more than him, even if you don't include the techniques, Clive basically had Nero's snatch + Trickster + Royalguard + Swordmaster, etc.
Clive has more options sure. But in terms of depth, it's not close. Clive has discount versions of those things you said,
Yeah people who think Clive is better than Nero are on some crack.
Nero has like 5 different basic combos + BURST EXCEED which actually severely alter the attacks properties + DT which also allows him to do new shit + Arms that give him a bunch of unique stuff.
Clive has 2 basic combos, and all the summon stuff just play themselves. Yes, looking at Garuda do a 20 hit gouge is cool; but all you're doing is pressing square.
Yeah Clive is fun to play but it's been a long time so people don't remember. Where 16 falls short is them not committing to having different button combos and inputs, this means Clive doesn't actually have many strings. WHenever i'm beating up an enemy, I can't actually mix up my melee combos. You have the eikon abilities sure, but they have cool downs
Are you not buffering your charge launchers, then downswing stomp canceling to extend your aerial? It's way more damage than your ground combo.
I still kind of blame Itsuno for 5's nero not having breaker switch. The DMC 5/ff16 combat director was only the combat director for Nero in DMC 4(so he didn't work much on DMC 3/4 Dante) if I am remembering correctly
Clive plays better than Bayonetta.
>t. moron who can't dodge offset
100% they really needed to remove stagger gauge and let all enemies be knocked around and juggled except for the giant ones.
It feels super unsatisfying when you hit an enemy that has stagger gauge, and you don't get a response from them. And when you break that stagger gauge, you still don't get a response; but now I guess you have 20 seconds for a basic ground combo and like 1-2 abilities.
Breaking the stagger gauge should really let things like Rising flames do a knock-up, which y'know is it's entire point.
Play bayonetta or any platinum game.
I don't like Bayonetta games after the first one, the enemy design gets worse and the games just become more gimmicky.
the titan fight was the best. the bamuhut fight was shonen good
Just don't do any of the side quests, problem solved. Its the same issue with 7 Remake, if you do all the side content the game is a slog.
Its not more to do, but how good does it feel to play and the cohesion. I hate Nero's arm shit in 5.
ONLY HE CAN SAVE THE SERIES
KNEEL TO YOUR NEW GOD
Nomura Full Control Soon
The final nail FF needs for its coffin
He is the only one who can make cute girls
Picture unrelated?
Okay, then you post some cute girls anon
No need to deny reality, everyone knows that Tifa and Aerith are top tier waifus
Tifa, Tifa, Yuffie, Tifa, Tifa and Aerith
I wonder who the lead character modeller is
How did you get b8'd by this image so hard that you actually reposted it KEK
To spread the b8
Fair enough lel. (You)
Yuffie being in this is pretty moronic, she doesn't have the same look as Tifa or the others.
>Yuffie being in this is pretty moronic, she doesn't have the same look as Tifa or the others.
Yuffie and Melphie have literally the same model tho
Yuffie is supposed to remind Sonon of his sister tho
how does that change anything I said?
Is there good Yuffie SFM porn yet. Im amazed her design was practically the same in 7R
>Is there good Yuffie SFM porn yet
>yet
bruh
where have you been?
I didn't like the ending of the 7R dlc so I forgot about the potential porn sorry bro.
no, all the SFMgays use the other asian chick because Yuffie's heckin' 17 and 364 days old you pervert
Claiming best girl
your too late
I can't wait for Costa del sol
7 + 2 hour sex scene
>L3+R3 to accept the truth.
>Find the Flame plays
Not gonna lie that was pretty kino
Lol I love how casually you go to caer norvent
>this is the wrong way friend
>murders everyone
I mean, your position is already compromised and revealed so might as well go in hot
Where do you see story progression percent? I don't see it when saving/loading
When was the last time an ARPG was more than just killing things and watching cutscenes?
16 is a mixed bag but don't be moronic. Every game can be condensed to this.
This game feels like Final Fantasy wanting to pull a Drakengard 1 without the balls of actually going all the way like Drakengard 1 did.
I think these slavery centered stories don't stick because it's just so unrealistic. Throughout history it took hundreds of years for that shit to stop, still happens in some places.
You can sell everything if the characters resonate, Clive and his crew don't
Sure but it would have to be a long game no? For us to resonate, these characters would have to spend atleast 20 hours minimum suffering as slaves so we could get the picture. One of my biggest problems with XBC3 for example was how the game sucked itself off for having a huge war between 2 groups of people who detested eachother. Suddenly your party members just accepted eachother immediatly after the intro, doesn't make any sense.
So how are magic users the enslaved ones? Shouldn't they be the ones enslaving the non magic folk?
They have special powers to create water or wind, so they're just used for work. It's honestly very standard and uncreative.
Can they also create fire or lightning? The slave sergeant that Clive killed was able to put a blue flame on his sword.
It's nonsensical. It'd be like a country with nukes being treated like slaves to a country that has a limited military.
If people with magic were the masters it would make sense.
Xenoblade 2 did a really good job with the "certain kinds are treated as slaves" aspect, because the superweapons existence is literally dependent on their masters for the most part. Their owners can treat them like shit, but if they kill their owners; they also get killed automatically.
The average one isn't particularly powerful, it takes alot out of you clearly, and if you keep pushing yourself to use it you petrify. They are also heavily outnumbered. If the average mage was casting Fira or some shit, and not merely lighting some firewood, then yeah it would be unrealistic. We already see one guy in Clive's unit being taken out by a throwing axe, magic doesn't make you immortal
So most magic users are weak. Got it.
>already see one guy in Clive's unit being taken out by a throwing axe, magic doesn't make you immortal
Beware of throwing axes
Sure the average one isn't that powerful; but they're not fighting against soldiers. They're fighting against some regular joe.
They're also dying anyways just by serving the people that own them on top of being treated like shit normally.
If you think about it, it makes 0 fricking sense.
Bearers are enslaved at birth, generally have no education or combat training, and channeling the magic themselves instead of a crystal like other people strains their body eventually killing them. Plus they have magic handcuffs that disrupt the flow of aether. So they don't really have the capacity to do much out of line before getting their throat slit by a guard, or even if they did manage to install themselves above normies, they'd just burnout from enforcing it.
Dominants and their big dick god powers are only enslaved by 1 faction, and everyone else in the world puts them in positions of power.
Thanks for clearing that up.
In FF16 it REALLY doesn't work if you think logically.
First of all, bearers are an important and vital resource; realistically, they should be well fed and treated with decency and not like rapidly disposable individuals. Because people like magic.
Second of all they can fricking use magic, and most other people can't.
This is the equivalent of a person with a shotgun that is always available, being a slave to a random dude with no real collateral.
It would MAYBE make sense if they revealed that the mark on them has a kill switch, but it doesn't.
Unironically, Tales of Arise did the whole "slavery" aspect more realistically than FF16, and that's not a compliment to ToA.
Slavery-centric stories usually fail because they're not really very slavery-centric. There's never really any kind of analysis of the characters and world affected on both sides of slavery, it's usually just our "good guys" realizing that slavery is bad actually and "bad guys" brutally oppressing and torturing slaves. And it's all usually just to frame the characters morally before the whole slavery angle is dropped or resolved quickly to move onto some big world-ending cataclysm that needs to be averted.
Tales of Arise was especially guilty of this, holy shit.
I've played it for like 10~ hours so far, but can't help but feel that this is a take on FFX story made by someone who only played MMORPGs. I see so many similarities, there is even an equivalent for the summoners' temples lol
>Unironically thinks that enslaving mages has anything in common with race-based slavery
If it has anyrthing to do with real world racism (it doesn't), it's as bad as the X-Men. With magic it's more about fearing danger and wanting to suppress it out of self-preservation, even if it means oppressing others.
No it's more due to logistics. People who can provide through magic would be able to call the shots because they could nuke people who don't.
Depends on how many of them there are. I'm even assuming that there are no countermeasures.
Eikons can turn into kaijus
and all the dominants are treated pretty well to make them not go apeshit. You can see it still taking its toll on Cid and Jill when they can't transform a bunch of times in a row. Bahamut goes like 30 seconds against Odin and needs a water break.
Except it makes 0 sense in the way it's used inside of the story.
They like magic, but hate people that can actually use it. They aren't afraid of magic users considering they get treated like garbage.
The magic users should easily have a way to fight back, especially considering it's not like they have family or anything that their owners can use as collateral, and helping their owners is LITERALLY killing them.
Need as many morons as possible to be able to play the game to recover the 100 billion dollar budget.
For a game I saw people saying was "dark and mature" compared to other Final Fantasy games Clive sure is your run of the mill anime character. He's an overpowered child of fate which is so tropey at this point I feel like I’ve seen the character 100 times before.
Every day we delay brings us closer to disaster. We must move now. Without blessing of our Mother Claire, we cannot defend Final Fantasy from the spread of the cringe. The last bastions of sexiness, feminity, beauty AND fertility. The last paragons of Pure, unfiltered and uncensored Beauty in this dying world - Claire and XIII girls - will return and I will wait for them until my last breath.
Their story begins when the Myth ends...
My Fertile Goddess...Save Us!
They hate her because they hate Beauty itself...
The War of All against All will see her enemies, those patrons of darkness and ugliness totally Wiped Out.
I prefer pre LR Claire
Remake 13, now
Remake 13. NOW.
So much potential for the Remake. Literally the most ambitious Final Fantasy.
I do remember how big the Archylte Steppe was seemed cool and impressive at the time but other than that I have no real positive memories of XIII.
ambition
deep mythical kino lore and world
nice atmosphere,
crazy stories with time travelling back and forth, suicidal gods etc.
the most refined art direction in series
best girls
good thematic core and scenario ideas.
With proper, at least fricking working engine, sane production management and enough development resources FFXIII Remake and its sequels have infinite potential. You know it, I know it, everybody knows it.
can't wait for XIII to flop a second time
It sold like 7 million copies. It wasn't a flop.
3 more years 🙂
Here's a collage for you.
XIII assets are already stupidly high quality, it doesn't need a remake, they just need to make the combat not terrible and unfrick the pacing.
It came 1 gen earlier than the gen where diminishing returns started to become apparent
It had a lot of potential but it went too hard on its linear narrative which had a lot of dumb moments.
>linear narrative which had a lot of dumb moments.
Storytelling in XIII was definitely poor, events planners did many debatable things in some key scenes, overall lines writing is barely bearable. But these are problems of storytelling, not general story design itself or its themes. It's a fixable thing.
XV was the most ambitious, let's be fair. It tried to be SO many things, and it failed at mostly all of them.
XIII is just... Fine. I think it's definitely overhated, but it still has problems. I dunno if I'd place it as worse than XII, though, and I fricking don't like XII at all.
At least XII seemed like a complete game in comparison with Pure Muse games.
Serah sex
Why Serah is the best girl (proof).
1) Serah is Pure Heroine. She sacrificed herself for saving the world due her unimaginable kindness.
2) Very smart (high IQ). She resolved all paradoxes in all possible timelines.
3) Loves her sister and boyfriend. She knew of her eventual death, yet continued as she promised Lightning not to stop until they were together again and had no regrets in the end.
4) Serah is cute (very important point).
5) Serah is beautiful (very important point).
6) Serah is cute and beautiful (from 4,5 by conjunction introduction)
7) She likes history (very cool) and is a straight-A student.
8) Serah is very strong and has powerful abilities. She has superb agility, jumping while firing her bows and skillfully performing backflips, similar to Lightning. Also a very powerful magician. -|
Q.E.D.
>have to buy DLC to give a decent outfit
>Loves her sister and boyfriend.
N(oel)TR
Begone.
XV is probably the only mainline FF I'd consider incomplete. XVI has problems here and there but it's at least a finished video game. Same for XIII. Even after DLC, XV is a blatantly unfinished mess.
XV fascinates me because of the absolutely massive scale of content they do nothing of value with. They painstakingly designed and detailed at least two massive cities then used most of it for cutscenes and pretty backgrounds.
I don't even know where to pin the blame for something as fricked-up as XV. Tabata seems an easy scapegoat, but I'm more inclined to believe it's just overall mismanagement from the higher-ups.
Tabata was the one that said in interviews that he wanted the game to be beatable with one button because he sucks at games or something
It's why I really hate that they never released the proper mod tools they were going to, because just being able to noclop properly would have been worth an afternoon or two
xvi is more unfinished than anything in xv
16 literally is the most bug-free AAA Game in the last few years. Usually the go-to shitposting is posting bugs or animation frickups etc
I said it was do-able, but it is a slog. It feels jank as frick for Cloud to go up and hit flying enemies unlike how Sora kinda glides upwards towards flying enemies. Especially when they start flying away and you go back down and have to run back to them and then once again go up for some jank air combat
>16 literally is the most bug-free AAA Game in the last few years. Usually the go-to shitposting is posting bugs or animation frickups etc
This isn't an achievement because 16 barely has content.
Lightning is a Goddess
The costumes in LR as so goofy, it doesn't fit Lightning at all
I thought it was odd how generic magic users were branded as slaves but then someone with an Eikon like Joshua or Clive with the Phoenix's blessing are somehow exempt from that same judgement.
Game reads like it was written with the outcome in mind before the world was fleshed out.
>there's a lore entry about how Joshua gave Clive a bit of Phoenix magic because it's tradition in Rosaria for the Dominant to give the First Shield some magic
Why don't more Dominants do this? Why doesn't Cid load up his entire resistance with Ramuh power? I'm not very far in the game, but I don't think I've seen it really come up.
Like with most things about FF16...
Don't think too hard about it.
Its probably a bit different between them. Garuda has her bird summons. Odin gets a horse.
So what's the difference with this and Stranger of Paradise?
One is Nioh-like, the other is vaguely broadly DMC-esque but more grounded and not as fun.
Strangers of Paradise has actual RPG elements
I told you homosexuals this shit was bad after the demo dropped and the entire "OMG MUH EPIC EIKONS FIGHT" was literally nothing but holding one button and pushing dodge three times, and you morons wouldn't hear any of it. So fricking glad I didn't preorder this garbage; hopefully it tanks and yoshitpiss gets fired and some new blood can take over XIV and maybe we'll actually get a decent game.
I don't hate fights that are more spectacle than gameplay, I just wish they were a BIT more. At least, to compare to KH2 for a moment, that game's cinematic moments were generally quick and paced well except for, like, the big finale attack from Xemnas which I think earns itself as a good show-stopper. It feels like every major fight in XVI is trying to do a show-stopper and it was frankly kind of embarassing how the second Ifrit fight was just capped off "mash square a few times".
KH leans into Advent Children too hard with the whole end of 2. Slicing buildings and shit is way too over the top.
Eh, that perfectly suits KH2 to me. It escalates for the finale, what's the problem there? Honestly KH3 felt incredibly underwhelming in comparison, despite all the weird space-folding shit Xehanort does in the final boss fight. You also don't just don't have the setpieces to break it up, it's just a long string of fights.
I agree with this, KH is known for crazy nonsense. The concept is literally Disney X FF. And yeah I wish the KH3 Xehanort fights were as spectacle filled.
That said, Remind fixed most of my non-plot related issues with KH3. The fights in that DLC are some of the best in gaming.
Is the action at the very least good or just flashy?
>It plays like an offline mmo, xenogay
Point me to an MMO with that level of character progression, party customization. An explorable world of that size, that is equally dense with content. As many npcs and character interactions.
It doesn't fricking exist. Offline MMO my ass.
If Xenoblade was actually an MMO, even if played offline. The combat would be ass due to having been designed for taking server latency into account.
And the entire design structure of the game would be different too, to promote players playing some every day for as long as possible, as opposed to consistent dramaturgical arcs for both gameplay and narrative.
Calling the Xenoblade games "offline MMOs" is pretty damn disingenuous. Why do people keep doing it?
Xenoblade's gameplay is more akin to an old crpg than an offline mmo.
not even fricking close xenogay
>she pegs them both
The more I think about it... the more Jill feels absolutely non-existent outside of her arc in the mid game.
Major things are happening and Jill just doesn't speak. She just exists there to be Clive's vanilla love interest, but she literally has nothing for the most part. She's like a singular step above the likes of Lunafreya, and it pisses me off.
She's literally only a character when she has her personal scenes with Clive. Otherwise she's barely even acknowledged by the game. Genuinely feels like a late addition or something and they just didn't know what to do with her.
She was probably originally only supposed to join for the Iron Kingdom stuff and few other minor moments and added to rest of the game after the backlash for having no party members
All of the 'party members' feel incredibly limp in gameplay on that note. Torgal's a glorified launcher button/healbot (and I know dog party members don't necessarily show personality too much in RPGs, but Torgal has almost NOTHING after the prologue and his re-introduction, compare to shit like Repede), whereas everybody else is just... Vaguely there and at best drawing attention.
Her character is very much "love interest for Clive" first, and being an actual character second. She's like the M-rated version of Kairi, unironically. Great design, but goddamn it's like she never exists until it becomes plot relevant. It's also funny how she's fine with others treating Clive like shit because he's a bearer (I know that bearer sympathizers are hated, but she's a fricking dominant). And it's not like she has family aside from Clive.
Did you forget you're fighting a giant space-ship person at the end of 1?
>It's also funny how she's fine with others treating Clive like shit because he's a bearer (I know that bearer sympathizers are hated, but she's a fricking dominant)
i seriously rolled my eyes at the part after the second time skip where she calls a group of bearers "our kind"
She still was effectively a slave for thirteen years. I'd say she shares their experiences, even if she doesn't have the tattoo
>She's like a singular step above the likes of Lunafreya, and it pisses me off.
Is she really? As bland and boring as Luna was at least she had agency and was off doing stuff by herself instead of being tied to Clive while doing nothing. Ironically Jill acts more like a slave than Clive does.
I'd say so.
Jill at least has a solid (albeit short) arc in the mid-game. Though yeah, it feels like she can't exist apart from Clive unlike Luna.
That is literally just Tifa then, she doesn't exist except to have that childhood connection with Cloud and obviously loose "we must save the planet" stuff everyone is connected by.
Maybe in the OG, but Tifa has plenty of lines in Remake. Not to mention she has a vital role in the central event of the game, and she can exist separately from Cloud. Jill's entire childhood isn't really elaborated upon outside of ATL; her 13 years apart from Clive are barely elaborated upon. What major conflicts was she conscripted in? All we know is the empire used her, but how did they even know she was Shiva? What incident made her transform in the first place? Who taught her how to control her transformation?
The OG FF7 was made 25 years ago, so the standards are different. The only truly relevant main characters to the plot there were Aerith and Cloud.
>Empire used her
That was the Iron Kingdoms, who came in once they heard what happened at Phoenix Gate. Rosalith and Iron Kingdoms were already about to go to war which is the whole going of them going to the gate for muh tradition. Based on Benedikta and Joshua transforming due to trauma, and her saying those captured all the women, it was probably do to similar panic into transformation. Then as we clearly see they use hostages to make her act on their behalf. Considering everyone came out to see the Iron Kingdom finally marching on the Dhalmeks, its easy to presume they haven't used Shiva in a major conflict like this before.
>The OG FF7 was made 25 years ago, so the standards are different. The only truly relevant main characters to the plot there were Aerith and Cloud.
Its a written story, the standards go back thousands of years. Its one thing for Vincent and Yuffie because they are optional, despite Vincents story connections to Hojo, but you can't say the same for like Cid.
>Then as we clearly see they use hostages to make her act on their behalf. Considering everyone came out to see the Iron Kingdom finally marching on the Dhalmeks, its easy to presume they haven't used Shiva in a major conflict like this before.
Yes, the usage of hostages can explain when she first transformed; but it would've been good to see the first moment. And how the kingdom manage to suppress her. Eikon's are able to take on armies, and we already know from Clive and Joshua; it's not like you're instantly in control when you first transform. You have to learn to control it. So how did Jill learn to control it? Never explained.
What are you talking about moron. Tifa gets plenty of back story and her own moments. She almost gets more screen time than Cloud does.
... in the Remake
No, in the OG. She's in almost every scene in the game and there's the whole chunk of disc 2 where Cloud is gone. Then there's the whole Junon prison segment that's all about her.
She does basically nothing until Aeris dies and Cloud gives the black materia to Sephiroth
What do you want or expect her to do lol? If your childhood friend you really liked came back after years and claimed to be at events you know they weren't part of you'd doubt your own sanity and be pretty quiet too.
Brainlet. That's like saying Cid just swears and jumps, Aeris just dies and drops marbles, Barret just wobbles and shoots his gun, where are the characters bro lmao
>Then there's the whole Junon prison segment that's all about her.
Which is just her getting gassed, escaping and then having a slap fight. There's nothing actually character related there.
Everything about Tifa revolves around Cloud, which includes the part where he is stuck in a wheelchair and she goes off on the Huge Materia quest stuff. All that is still, muh cloud, muh planet. She doesn't really feel like a character.
She's at least actively supporting Cloud compared to Jill who just sort of exists.
because unlike Cloud, Clive gets over his shit pretty early and there is nothing to "support". They have the same goal and work towards it, which is making the world equal. 7's big story moment was never Aerith dying, it was Cloud being a schizo.
She has screentime but isn't actually apart of the story. If you controlled Cid in those parts, literally nothing would change.
It doesn't need to though? Its 13 years, years of training. How did Odin transform, learn his skills etc. This is the pointless JRPG padding that you get when you want a game to last 60 hours and need text boxes popping up to explain shit that in the moment will never matter.
>And how the kingdom manage to suppress her
Hostages clearly, its not like these people are subtle when it comes to throwing around power. It also clearly takes a ton out of them, okay she blasts a ton of people as Shiva and flies away a bit. Then she transforms back to human and is physically exhausted and people run her down.
They aren't immortal, plenty of real soldiers or bearers dying to random throwing axes and shit early on.
>How did Odin transform, learn his skills etc
Speak for yourself, I would personally love more info on pretty much all of the non-allied dominants. As it is, the game hints at events in their past; but never expands on them in a satisfying manner. The villains just exist as roadblocks rather than actual people.
It honestly doesn't matter because dominants have been around for centuries and centuries at this point, the only thing different this generation is Ultima. We don't know anything about the previous versions of any of these dominants, why the world was at a stalemate. Why does the Crystalline Dominion have a mothercrystal but no dominant, is those hundreds of years old oaths and pacts with the Empire really all they were secured by? Jill is from the northern territories who got wiped out fully by the blight, but are dominants always born in specific areas etc. You can add tons more exposition but it would all be relegated to a random book like TES or lore dump somewhere
From what I gathered, Garuda was supposedly the eikon of the Crystalline Dominion.
So what, Cid just kidnapped her on a secret spy mission? If she had her powers, she wouldn't have been in that position to need saving. If she didn't have her powers yet, why was he all the way across the sea? It makes more sense that she was from some place on Waloed but since Barny conquered it all we have no different cultures or things to grasp onto from history.
and FF16 is targeting a much bigger, wider normie audience than Octopath. Divinity Original Sin has dozens of books and ain't no one fricking reading that garbage.
>and FF16 is targeting a much bigger, wider normie audience than Octopath. Divinity Original Sin has dozens of books and ain't no one fricking reading that garbage.
Who the hell cares if normies don't read OPTIONAL things. Normies probably give 0 shits about ATL as it is. And it sounds infinitely more interesting than sidequests covering the illogical way bearers are treated for the 30th time.
Chances are Original Sin 2 sold way better XVI will ever lmao
>You can add tons more exposition but it would all be relegated to a random book like TES or lore dump somewhere
I would be fine with this. In fact I think it's what ATL should've been used for instead of very basic info on things you can already tell. Certain characters should've had a wikipedia length article on their background.
Octopath Traveler 2 had a bigger breakdown on several cities, locations, races, culture, lore all in a optional quest location compared to anything ATL provides info on.
>dude it's completely fine that XVI glosses over every piece of history that might be interesting and relevant to learning these characters better, that inexplicable 5 year timeskip was awesome!
Shut up
Game's trying to do too much at once it seems. It's trying to be a character study but it rushes to all the important development with timeskips to eventually reach to the end to resolve things with troony Kaguya because it's a mainline FF.
I'm playing the demo right now and this game should be renamed to Vape Fantasy 420.
>we want the Ys audience
and I loved it
It's called action rpg. Not rpg action.
I feel like when people said if this game had RPG elements, Yoshida thought they were talking about this.
The sidequests having no acknowledgement of your party members feels weird. Like I get it's because they just made 1 version for doing them at any time in the story, and maybe I'm just spoiled after GoW:R having 2 entire sets of dialogue for every sidequest depending on who your companion is at the time.
It sticks out like a sore thumb though when immediately after setting up "If anyone asks, I'm an imperial bearer serving his noble lady," you run into a guy that's like "Damn, I can't ask for help from someone else's bearer. Or maybe I could, just make sure this coin gets passed along to your master," and Jill has no commentary whatsoever.
Just reached Titan, I think it's personally a 8.5/10 for me, maybe additional 0.5 just because its bug free and it should be fricking industry standard at this point.
Story wise? It's a little rushed here and there but its average standard JRPG. VA is fricking amazing all around though.
Gameplay? It's better than Bayonetta but doesn't even TOUCH to DMC standard. 2 Customizable abilities per Eikon is too small AND having fricking cooldowns??? Jesus christ. They should at least give 3 Customizable abilities OR 2 Customizable abilities with no cooldown but adjusted damage and stagger damage.
I think the gameplay is fine for now, and I'll plan on maxing everything then play in NG+ Hard Mode so I can finally make comparison between DMC and FFXVI (it's unfair to compare fully kitted out Dante/Nero/Vergil to early game Clive)
The music though... 10/10. I thought Soken is a fricking meme but he proved me wrong. Greatwoods theme got me hooked and it all went well from there.
But yeah, personally its a 8.5 so far simply its a GOOD 2023 AAA game that is also bug free, might rank it lower or higher once I finish the game on NG+ Final Fantasy mode
I have more fun with XVI than XIII and XV honestly so far
Spent the entire budget on graphics
>every sword has a unique model
>there doesn't seem to be a glamour system
why
>anon discovers japanese games
I feel like this game really needs superbosses, the combat is really fun but all the enemies are just too easy, and I'm not only talking about HP/damage values.
Try it on Final Fantasy mode anon, friend said its the default difficulty.
I doubt that there are no superbosses in this game. FFXV had a bunch of them for frick's sake. They even added Omega and 14's Garuda.
theres exactly zero, they don't even have gilgamesh in the game
It's always funny that people makes thread like this when a new Sony exclusive comes out.
They are fricking lost with their audience, huh?
Why can't Squeenix just take the basic premise of a Bioware RPG and make it good? Several companions (an actual JRPG party, can you imagine that?), tons of party banter that reflects the progress you have made, reactive comments about different points of interest while going through areas, reactive comments to certain side quests instead of being completely mute about them... How this type of shit still eludes JRPGs for the most part is insane. I think XV actually had the party have more reactive commentary and banter, and I genuinely thought they'd improve on that the next game.
Honestly, the biggest failing in this game is the lack of a party that you can adventure with. And when you do get a party for a single moment, it's just Clive, Torgal + Jill/Joshua/random character of the day that fricks off in the end. It's not great especially when Jill and Joshua are boring as frick. Byron and Cid at least force Clive to be a little more entertaining.
People still using "Aeris" can be taken as seriously as morons who say "kino"
>he dothent knowth
I WILL CRUSH HIM.
FLAIL HIM.
So general consensus is XVI isn't the best game but a good decent 2023 game?
It's clearly a decent game on its own merit. It's just a disappointing FF entry, if you don't care about that then there's nothing to worry about.
Yeah that's what I would say. It has some extremely high highs, but it's very, very easy to notice it's flaws if you think about for even a second.
It's not bad, it's also not "omg this is the future of action rpgs or action games". It's very much video game Naruto: Shippuden, enjoyable; just don't think too hard and enjoy the fights.
I'm really enjoying the writing and combat and that's good enough for me.
Forspoken is literally more an rpg
88 metacritic defines it perfectly. It's not perfect, there's some flaws but it's pretty good.
Eh, I'd still say 88 is a bit too high. Once the spectacle wears off for people and more objective criticisms come in; it'll be closer to an 83-85 in terms of fan reception (critically it'll probably drop to 87 or 86 after EDGE comes out),
Like, I'll at least say this. It's nice to have an FF game come out and just be finished and at least pretty good with no real major hang-ups. I have my gripes with XVI, but it as least a complete video game unlike XV. Definitely not the direction I want the series to go (especially because it's too middle of the road with action and RPG that it feels like it doesn't exceed in either, and the moves take WAY too long to unlock, like you have Jill with you for so long why does Shiva take so long).
I think base XV had more content than XVI so what actually counts as complete at this point? XV had superbosses like the admantoise and optional dungeons with weapons to collect. XVI has none of that.
Amazing how having a polished, complete and generally bug free game at launch is considered as an accomplishment now.
>and the moves take WAY too long to unlock, like you have Jill with you for so long why does Shiva take so long
FF devs are casual gays, best way to play their modern action JRPGs is to just download a save file and play NG+. You can't do that on consoles of course so just wait for the PC release.
>and the moves take WAY too long to unlock
Why the frick do you only have Ifrit and Garuda for hours before finally getting a 3rd one
Phoenix, I meant. Whatever same shit.
How short would the game have been without all the dumb side quests? Should have been streamlined
Hell, even Garuda takes honestly far too long.
Story-driven game, where the story is shit.
Final Fantasy is fundamentally about how there's something transcendent and eternal, that endures through things like the passage of time or death. That hack Yoshida doesn't get it though, and as a result CBU3s games are chockful of references because that's all dimwits like him think Final Fantasy is.
>FF8 poster has a moronic opinion presented as fact
extremely keyed and true-shotted post
True. I'd say its one of the better games of 2023 if compare it to other 2023 launches. I think it deserves 88 simply because it's pretty polished and bug free despite of some letdowns in the gameplay and story.
There's only minor performance issue but I'm blaming it on PS5, besides its not as bad as Hogwarts, Forspoken and Jedi on release. Also all of those games are buggy as shit on release as well.
It’s an action jrpg. Jrpg vs rpg is vastly different. Final fantasy has always been a series of having bigger numbers. You can always go back and play an older one or try out stranger of paradise. This one is really just the player trying to do wacky shit and kill the enemies as fast as possible.
Just like pretty much every action rpg.
>The Titan vs Ifrit fight
Literal ultra kino holy frick.
just finished the game. skipped all the cutscenes since we followed the leaks and i just watched the cutscene collections on youtube separately. the story is a massive pile of turd so i'm not really interested in it.
gameplay is way too easy and allows for very little. you can juggle opponents in a nice manner but there is not much technical stuff involved to make something interesting out of it. every ability later on gets even more cinematic than the ones before. Odin is really just pathetic to a point where it feels like the game is doing all the work. Ramuh was the most interesting thing to get to have "zoning" abilities for more versatility. but even that is doing the job on it's own with lock-on features ripped off from BbS/KH3. not much to do there yourself.
overall with how generous the time windows and ability potency are it felt like a movie game trying to pretend it's DMC. i'm sure people will find their appeal with it if they put their mind into it. but i honestly can't. might as well play a real DMC game while i'm at it. it looks complex and tricky on the surface but the game really feels like it's playing itself a lot of the time.
now for the grand controversial take that will make everyone seethe: i liked FFXV a lot more tbh. that game (with all it's flaws) at the very least had it's own identity. XVI feels like it's borrowing shit from everywhere and never doubles down on something. i will try the hard mode or whatever and give the Bloody Palace thing a swing. but i don't think i will stick to this game all too long.
Didn't ask
>game gets good 80 hours in after you beat the game and start over
Back to your general, troony
>it felt like a movie game trying to pretend it's DMC
this. perfectly summed up in few words. it's probably because it's a Sony exclusive but it's trying way too hard to handhold you in all aspects just to be more appealing to a broader audience. this game is really not satisfying in any shape or form if you are into DMC or similar complex games.
Also nobody, whether casual or hardcore, wants their first, standard difficulty playthrough of a DMC game to take more than 30 hours, with a big chunk of that being cutscenes and fetch quests. It shouldn't take that long in a game like this to unlock every ability
I liked XV more
I only just beat Titan, but that's my take too. I like XIII and XV more than this. The highs are high, but the lows are just awful, and way more abundant, and at this point in the game I just sleepwalk my way through the combat waiting to get to the next cutscene. For every 15 minutes of amazing fricking KINO, you can expect another 3 hours of drawn out dogshit. I hate it.
the sheer arrogance of these mmoBlack folk kek
He should resign out of shame at the least. Seppeku is better. But he has no honor and thus feels no shame.
The yoshitpiss gays that had the gall to say they'd show the rpg later after this deserve to be strangled to death
But Yoshi and the MMO trannies think this IS an rpg. They think FFXIV is an MMO too and not just a castrated MOBA with a visual novel slapped on.
I like Yoshida but kek this is literally one of those moments where he couldn't keep his overconfidence in check.
Yoshida honestly oversells his shit a lot at times. He does the same with some of the XIV announcements.
XIV's Blue Mage is probably the worst shit I've seen from him.
Why won't SE go out of business? They should have died after Avengers flopped.
SE follows a basic cycle.
>push one big project as the flagship of the company at the expense of everything else
>big project eats shit
>cost is recouped with smaller side projects people actually like
>repeat
Well, more recently it's XIV being their big money maker.
XIV has outlived several of their "real flagship games" and continues being the primary source of their funding. Squeenix executives are just extremely out of touch.
Their biggest money maker and yet they refuse to put any effort on post patch content. EW contents has been embarrassing.
I feel like party members are non-existent and do nothing, despite sometimes throwing out some particle effects every now and then.
Unironically, I think I'd like if more action RPGs used Hi-Fi rush as a party members essentially being customizable assists with different properties depending on what you need.
They do shit, they barely do damage to heavy enemies but I noticed they 2/3-shot most thrash enemies. With the exception of some boss battles like the Dragoon and Aevis where Cid actually kills the Aevis by himself.
>Unironically, I think I'd like if more action RPGs used Hi-Fi rush as a party members essentially being customizable assists with different properties depending on what you need.
So, Scarlet Nexus?
Sure. I never played it, so I wouldn't know.
For frick's sake. Hopefully they'll add one in the PC Royal Edition.
Very minor nitpick, actually, but does it feel like the game is 'trying too hard' to be FF to anybody else? Like it makes WAY too heavy use of the Prelude and the classic FF theme, for one... Not to mention the book Joshua writes in the epilogue is literally called Final Fantasy. It feels weirdly self-indulgent? Like they carried over a lot of the same concepts from XIV in that regard, but XIV is in part a celebration of the series, whereas XVI is just its own thing, ostensibly.
Because that's what Final Fantasy is. FF was never an RPG series, it's all about Moogles and Chocobos and various other trademarks. Without the names and homages, it's not Final Fantasy. What did you expect, an RPG? LOL
It's just a shitty action game.
I love it when Ganker loses
Dunno. But it's a cool movie. Been enjoying watching the story on Youtube. the Gameplay looks boring as frick.
>make game where everybody agrees combat is the best part, as well as the spectacle of kaiju fights
>also throw in hours of tedious side quests
Why didn't they just make a tight action game a la DMC
That's what I'm wondering. I would have been fine with a 30 hour Final Fabtasy with nice setpieces and huge kaiju fights. Instead they drew it out to 50 with garbage.
>"YOOOOO CLIVE JUST FOUGHT A GOD"
>"yo Clive, fetch me some dirt, b***h"
Why
MMO devs.
Tick tock, Yoshitpiss cultists
Yahtzee even LIKES JRPGs now and I think he'll give it just a "Eh, was okay".
So uh, what are you guys expecting for a DLC/expansion?
Not sure I'm expecting anything at all, honestly.
Leviathan
some superbosses like Shinryu added as free updates or something
I'm honestly starting to get tempted to skip cutscenes but I'm holding back because there's 0 point to playing after I do that.
i started skipping since the Demo. you really can't make me watch this slogfest it's incredibly dry and exhausting to follow. less is more
You'll miss nothing because 90% of the cutscenes don't advance the story at all. They come in exactly two flavors: cutscenes where you as a player understand what is going on but the characters don't and just act confused, and cutscenes where the characters understand what is going on but you as a player don't and there will be no explanation because frick you. Both of these are equally irritating as frick, and it's very obvious that Yoshida's mystery novel fetish conflicts with his Matsuno fetish. None of the political intrigue matters because it's all just background noise that's only ever barely used to explain why you'll be going to the next area. Any interest you might have had in what the hooded man, Joshua, Ultima, etc. are actually doing is completely eroded after seeing them in a dozen fricking cutscenes that fail to move any closer to an answer. Nearly all attempts at character development are ruined by boilerplate japanese melodrama and boil down to either 'character dies' or 'presumed dead character is alive'.
That sucks to hear. I was at least hoping the game would have a great story and be consistent given the absence of everything else that makes a good FF. It sounds like there's no superbosses or really good side content to make new game+ even worthwhile either.
Picture this
>Your at the gates of the Final boss
>You play as Clive + 3 or 4 other party members of your choice
>Your character pool is Joshua, Jill, Cid, Benna, Hugo, Dion or Barnabas as Sakaguchi intended
Whew. Can't believe how bad I felt the first time I staggered that nice girl from the beginning. What a great game.
I guess it`s just another attempt to appeal to a wider audience. That`s been like the one observable constant in SE strategy regarding the IP since around the merger (when they started making movies, sequels, prequels and online games). It`s honestly not surprising at this point.
I was so disappointed that the dialogue was filled with FRICK SHIT and other modern cancer. I was initially so intrigued that we would get something similar to XII's quality:
Say what you want about XII's gameplay, but I absolutely loved the cutscenes and dialogue.
Forgot to mention: I know that the sad reality is if they attempted to do something similar to the dialogue in XII you just know "modern audiences" would hate it because "people" are so much more moronic compared to 2006.
the combat in this game would look better if it didn't have any press X to particle effects
Active Time Lore is cute but they should've stolen Active Time Events from IX. So far XVI is really missing those little, frivolous moments of characterisation which get you attached to a character.
Granblue Relink will be the true FF16