Addons ruined WOW.

the difference is that other people aren't dependent on me in real life. Im not griefing people by being lazy as frick
If I was a parent and not managing money properly id be a moronic frick for griefing my child

Its about having a modicum of respect for the other people in your group
Not running basic addons like damage meters clearly shows you dont give a frick about your performance

Bro going into 15 year old wrath raids and asking what to do is fricking cringe. You probably lied and told them you knew the fights also.

i was "moving shit around" my ui in vanilla you fricking gay. sorry that spending an hour to set your ui up to your exact specifications and personal taste for a game designed to be played for thousands of hours is too much work for you you braindead zoomer. go play XIV.

>HAVING CUSTOMIZATION OPTIONS IS ACTUALLY A BAD THING
Black folk are going to cry and b***h about everything

your brain works at dialup speed because your skin isnt white
you should be thankful for addons because clearly you cant function without them, but normal people can

That raid alone had like three fights with difficult mechanics deleted by weakauras that took the top autists hundreds of attempts regardless

>logs
>being an effective player
no ???
doing big numbers is not the same as effective
log result numbers don't take into account the number of interrupts, dispels, avoidable damage not taken, doing mechanics correctly, etc.
only raw damage
it's not a good metric at all

If you're the cuck volunteering to do mechanics that cause downtime then that just means you don't care about doing damage enough
Groups want people they have to force to go throw the glowy ball in the hoop

>log result numbers don't take into account the number of interrupts, dispels, avoidable damage not taken, doing mechanics correctly, etc.
They log all of that and more, actually.

This problem is actually as old as parsing itself. Damage received or mechanics failed were never taken into account. Nevermind the absolute joke that is heal parsing.

im not the other guys who were replying to you before. i just dont get why people refuse to install addons. its like playing dark souls without dsfix or osrs without runelite. its one thing to be unaware that addons exist, but the moment you realized they exist you should use them. especially if you are getting kicked out of raids for not having them

i dont do raid finder. i raid heroic and mythic with my guild lol. we all use addons and nobody complains about them. its not an issue to us at all. its extremely alien to me that someone would even care about addons, or choose not to use them after having repeat negative experiences with pugs because they dont have addons. youll have a better time with addons so... use them?
>NOOOOO I DONT WANT TO!!!!!
ok your choice, dont complain about being kicked then

bro even FFXIV has most people using ACT, some degree of addon usage is always going to be mandatory
like you're not entirely wrong that Blizz needs to standardize mechanic markers more, but comparing it to playing a shooter with wallhacks is fricking moronic

to some degree, sure, but the game isn't always great at communicating what the mechanic is actually going to DO
does the circle just do damage to you, or are you supposed to drag it to the boss?
is this poison just a dot, or does it instantly kill you at 10 stacks?
am I supposed to pick up the lightning orbs or avoid them?
obviously I'm supposed to use these three ballistae on the boss, but when and why?

The only difference between the "one person stand in this" swirlie and the group soak swirlie is sometimes the group soak circle is bigger
And I still think they don't have a marker for a line group soak

it was happening long before the wowfugees my man

wow, good job getting the three tards dumb enough to talk about it in-game banned
everyone and their mother is using ACT, they just don't tell you they have it

>Why don't they just build it into the game then?
so youd be ok with addons features if blizz added them to the game? why not add them to your game yourself by downloading the addon? i really dont get what the big deal is

also at the end of the day, your experience wouldnt change if you currently used addons vs if blizzard designed the games without addons in mind. lets look at mythic terros as an example
>boss marks players with circles
>marked players get rocks thrown at them
>later on, tanks get a line targeted at them
>tanks need to position the line to break rocks
>if too make rocks get broken, the raid takes a bunch of damage
>if not enough rocks get broken, the raid will be forced to break the remaining rocks later and wipe

current addon infested hellscape nightmare scenario:
>use an addon to separate players marked with rocks
>addon tells half of the rock targets to go left, half to go right

proposed way to design fight with no addons in mind:
>half the rocks are blue
>half the rocks are red
>red players go left, blue players go right

either way youre just moving left or right. the player experience doesnt change. i dont get the point of kvetching over something so minor

to get the mounts?

go left/right is not the only part of playing the game
Looking at your WA isnt different than looking at a colored debuff or anything else

im the guy that brought up mythic terros, my point is that im neutral on combat addons. i dont care about them either way. blizz currently designs the game with addons in mind, so i use them. its not like theyre hard to install or anything. if blizz decided to make the next expansion addon free and designed the game accordingly, i wouldnt care. my experience largely doesnt change

addons being allowed is the status quo. sure, i guess im "defending" the status quo. i just dont get why people wouldnt use addons

Even back when I played nobody was doing Mythic Iskar without the ball addon being mandatory.

>hasnt played wow in 10 years
>still posts in random wow threads
why are you even here man
i havent played call of duty in 10 years. i have 0 desire to post commentary in cod threads

Blizzgays really do have a mental illness not comparable with any other fanbase in any hobby. You people are scum of the earth and your reasoning for things is unhinged. You don't even play video games you just have some clusterfrick UI filled with pictures doing the work for you while you parse against other brain damaged boomers. Glad your genre is dying old man, frick you.

No I'm just always able to naturally gear myself up from nothing, find good guilds that still have a noticeable variation in player skill yet still clear all content without needing to poopsock.
At the same time, most pugs, even in situations where addons are entirely irrelevant, frick up just about everything and clearly lack basic thinking skills.

i think that's pretty much what im getting at. some of my best memories of daoc were random pugs where we just did shit together and rarely did anyone ever complain even with an absolute SHIT spec in the group.
for instance i made an earth spec wizard once which is fricking garbage in daoc, and never had an issue getting a group for leveling at any point. most i got were people laughing asking me why i would subject myself to that torment but not really complaining
it was like the mindset was "thats how that player wants to play and sure it might slow me down a bit, but its about fun or novelty so it's cool"
ive always been a mostly solo player who likes pugging because it's always a random group of people, and it's shit now in mmos
you were kind of right about the cliques in some guilds if you were bad on average, but it wasn't nearly as egregious as it feels now

>MMO's need to become more casual so people can play whatever and just have a good time
Like WoW was for the majority of its life. Now the only casual content is drool on your dressing gown-tier

I think most people just don't understand how bad a bad player really can be. There are some people that play these games that make you wonder if they're actually breathing and it feels unbelievably bad to waste your time trying to drag them over the finish line.

I think in modern WoW it's particularly grating since loot is pretty much entirely random outside of guilds so you can waste your time dragging some moron through the worst M+ of your life to receive a kick in the balls while they get an amazing item. I swear latinx accounts are specifically coded by blizzard to high roll.

Yeah I can at least sorta excuse being bad at retail because there is content I would say is actually hard, but in classic it's all a complete joke so getting someone that somehow can't handle the bare minimum of a video game is baffling.

I really wish we could just wall off the favela monkeys and chinese into their own server.

No Anon you don't get it, the addons release gas that makes the players stupider. If addons weren't a thing, they would play better.

Probably yes, they would be more encouraged to pay attention. I am pro-addons thoughbeit

I fricking hate addons, I don't know what you're talking about

lol

I fricking hate addons, I don't know what you're talking about

The fact that the vault was allowed to stay until now is basically a joke. I can't believe retail slaves have been so conditioned to accept exponentially increasing RNG garbage

For WoW it's a self-inflicted wound.
They made the game almost entirely about end-game. They have since trivialized everything that isn't end-game, but still require it to be done to get to the game (end-game).
So players just want to rush as fast as they can to not waste time. With a LFG from anywhere feature, you get people just standing there going into dungeons and wanting it to just be over, but it's just so fricking efficient do this.
So they get pissy if people are slowing them down, or not "on".
Tanking in WoW LFG is actually cancer, if you don't go the best route and pull X amount of mobs and don't keep moving moving moving you get people leaving the group or voting to kick you. It's so bad that people would rather re-queue and abandon the group. Or just vent their rage at someone.
My point is I agree with you, if it was more casual and wasn't almost entirely end-game focused, this would be less prevalent. But with how the game is made (dungeon spam rush to max level) to raid, I don't see WoW recovering from it ever.

Yes, but typically the reason is someone new at their class or role, how else are they supposed to learn? I guess grin and bear it until you git gud. But it's not nearly as tolerable in MMOs as it used to be when people were more casual and chill.

>Yes, but typically the reason is someone new at their class or role, how else are they supposed to learn?
With pugging yes, I agree but my point is that the difference in player skill is so high that it's like playing a completely different game when these two players interact.
A lot of players solved this problem by giving up on pugs entirely which was controversial in of itself but I don't see that as a 'problem' in a sense that players should not be forced to crawl through a 10 minute dungeon in 30 minutes.

Classic has its own problems that lead to the same result. The servers were incredibly huge and filled with bots that generated money from nothing, which led to extremely high consumable prices. Combined with the world buffs and very annoying respawns after wipes, players were punished severely for mistakes.
Nobody wants to spend a ton of gold on useless consumables because of wipes, and playing a melee class after losing world buffs is simply much less fun. This causes players to become extremely risk averse because bad players can make the raiding experience infinitely more annoying

While I agree that world buffs and bots created a host of problems, even in Wrath Classic, where consumables are piss cheap and world buffs aren't a thing, the player skill gap is massive and most people simply do not want to pug anymore because of how agonizing the disparity is.
That isn't bragging either, it's not like the people who are 'good' at the game are particularly skilled, wrath is piss easy, but still, a very significant portion of the playerbase are very inept and the solution has been for people to simply avoid pugging or use 'extreme' vetting methods.

only 1 difficulty mode prevents casuals from playing whatever and having a good time. you can absolutely clear lfr, normal and heroic with suboptimal specs. its a player perception issue that only the "bleeding edge hardest difficulty content" matters

...also, in actual vanilla wow/tbc/wotlk, the raids were considered brutally hard. at the time, the average player was much worse at the game. the raids were a genuine challenge. the game never catered to gigacasuals outside of offering a 200+ hour leveling experience

yeah i agree that leveling should be part of the casual experience. theres nothing stopping casuals from progging through old raids in retail either, except for the notion that the only content that matters is the hardest content

>No they weren't
I was. Maybe it's because people on my server were stupid, and that's probably true, but that's how it was

>mostly solo player who likes pugging
That's the unfortunate problem. Most sane people have abandoned pugs because it simply isn't worth it. It's actually the 'elitists' that are the most laid back because you don't have to try really hard as long as everyone is at least slightly competent.

>he thinks orange parsing is hard
>he thinks pink parsing is hard
lol

>dox urself cause some moron in a top 50000 world guild thinks ur bad
post a timestamped selfie of yourself with a gun to your head and i will

>he thinks he matters and his words will get people to do things at his whim
you probably are disabled and were in special ed growing up

There are more mechanics in a 15 M+ then a 10 M+ ?

Wow blizzard intentionally makes shitty fights that are too hard for all except 50 odd people and then needs to nerf them to be even remotely feasible even with addons? Almost like I was right and their response to addons and racing has damaged the game heavily, crazy.

I think they have been doing better about it since Dragonflight, but it absolutely was an issue that hit it's breaking point in Shadowlands.

>Almost like I was right and their response to addons
How are mechanics that have no interaction with addons because of addons?
M Tindral seeds are hard because its just a brutally tight mechanic check with no room for failure
Addons will not help you soak seeds whatsoever. Its a basic soak mechanic, just with a very short windup and no room for error, because thats all it takes to take a mechanic from being easy on heroic to brutal on mythic

>I Would LOVE to see you and the boys do mythic tindral without addons.
There are actually guilds out there like this, but most of them never even get CE and usually spend every second of the tier raiding three nights a week. I live in fear of the kind of creature that occupies those guilds.

I bet you are not on mythic at all

>Yeah the addons displaying timers
The fight is literally on a set order and he has a cast bar for the seeds. You know exactly when theyre coming.
>and debuffs all over the screen
Also not helping for seeds. Seeds is a purely execution mechanic and had to be nerfed massively for mid tier CE guilds to get through. Has absolutely nothing to do with addons

The cast bar tells you when the seeds are coming out moron
>seed debuff doesn't matter
You should be aware if you step on a seed or not, you dont need a fricking weak aura to know that you soaked one

>yeah top guilds can barely manage them knowing well in advance
Because the execution is hard
>we'll never mess up soaking when you might overlap and need to check your fricking debuff bar
you mean the one that you dont need addons for at all?

>looking up
You can see debuffs in multiple locations without addons

No there is not
You look at the ground and run to a seed. If you touch 2 or miss soaking one the raid wipes

Are you actually progressing mythic on day one? be honest.

>needing to play amongus is "cartoonishly overdesigned"
i agree other fights in shadowlands were overdesigned (fatescribe, halondrus, anduin) but dreadlords werent lol

also if blizz gave you an extra 30 seconds so you could calmly talk about whos the imposter in voice chat, would that fight suddenly be good? if blizz added the "vote for the impostor" ui to the base game, would the fight suddenly be good? idk man. most of wows mechanics are kinda stupid when you describe them on paper lol

Let's go back to the dreadlords example
Playing the mechanic is coordinating with your team to find the fake one
Using a weakaura automatically determines the fakes
It plays the mechanic for you

No I'm talking about gaols
I got Nael drilled into my head hard

Yeah but the waymark thing is so weird and jank feeling I don't blame people that just have a bot do it
It's a moronic mechanic