I haven't seen many works featuring mecha, but from what I recall, there are very few scenes in the storyline where the pilots hesitate to leave their mechs. Pilots should exit the wienerpit to talk to each other or investigate surroundings, without hesitation.
However, recently I played Lancer, and when players really immerse themselves in the role of the pilot, we often don't want to leave the mech at all.
Leaving the mech is like worse then death ! We keep asking the Game Master if we can use the mech's manipulator to investigate the surroundings. Every time someone leave the mech he is always hesitate and ready to run back to the mech
It makes sense, but it is not cool.
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 CRIME Shirt $21.68 |
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dont be a pussy
>dont be a pussy
I kind of want to second this, but I've seen pilots do some crazy shit, and I've seen pilots go splat. Sometimes in the same incident!
I think Armour Astir Advent is the only mech RPG that gives proper plot armor to pilots that leave their mech
In what, Lancer? I'm not OP, but I think my favorite was when the PCs were using their dropship to chase a pirate freighter through a gas giant's ring system. Suddenly, the dropship takes fire from a pirate warship that had been hiding in the ice fragments. With their transport hulled, the PCs had to fight the two enemy ships and their mech complement amongst the ice-teroids. All while one PC single-mindedly and single-handedly boarded the freighter. Then the whole team escaped on the stolen freighter.
great encounter
FPBP
>thinks love languages are only for troons
Good luck with your breakup/divorce, anon, if you even have anyone in the first place
>new age commie bugman homosexual lecturing others on relationships for not using their gay ass Party approved emotion terminology
Top kek. I bet you ask permission to kiss your girlfriend's boyfriend too.
Imagine how safe and secure you'd feel inside a mech. You're in a hostile locale, unknown things could be ready to rip your head off but you can take them all because you're in a titan of steel with the top-of-the-line military training and weaponry that having a mech would ensure.
You'd feel like a god while inside a mech. When you leave you're vulnerable in a potentially hostile location and likely don't have all your ususal equipment or even a bag.
I like both scenarios as long as I'm allowed to keep a bag, some clothes and a decent weapon when I'm not in the mech. Ususally one melee and one firearm.
I fricking love giant robots so much.
So you're playing Space Battleship Tiramisu?
In general it seems like anime mecha pilots are more like plane pilots. They can do what they do because of the machine they're piloting. If a plane pilot has to bail out he's a dude in a jumpsuit with maybe a pistol or a survival rifle. Battletech seems to follow this as well from the little I've seen of it.
This pretty much means if they don't have to leave the wienerpit in a dangerous area, why would they, they're now without their armor/weapon.
Contrast this with something like Titanfall, where the pilot not only pilots a mech but is a superior infantryman in his own right.
>I haven't seen many works featuring mecha,
>but let me talk about this incredibly vast genre that I'm totally inexperienced with.
If you know anything about the classics, you know mecha is a fricking vast genre filled a huge variety in tones, styles, and settings (ranging from sci-fi to fantasy to horror to everything in between). I highly suggest watching more shows before you comment on the genre, because most secondary observations aren't really going to hold that much water considering how long this shit has been around and how many spins on it there's been. Case in point:
>where the pilot not only pilots a mech but is a superior infantryman in his own right.
There are so many fricking scenes in VOTOMS where Chirco is forced to abandon his mech and holds his own on foot with whatever weapons he can get his hands on.
Chirico is literally an elite soldier, then an ubermensch, then the son of God. Not equitable.
"Superior infantryman" is definitely qualified by all 3 of those things, at least. Besides, we don't know those last two until the very end.
Hence my insertion of "then". Man what a great fricking show, I need to go back and watch it again.
Not my cup of tea, im not into the whole mech scene
Lancer shill actually liking mecha anime challenge : impossible
It's a subpar wargame pretending to be a TTRPG. Despite what the fanbase says the combat is not particularly good by either standard.
Doesn't particularly feel like mecha either. Frickin' Nechronica feels more like a mecha game mechanically.
Speaking of /m/echronica, I still need to find better names and perhaps effects for Fetters (and their Madness effects) to suit adult pilots before playtesting my current draft. One big challenge later will be overcoming the lack of a man-sized system for anything but sanity that
correctly thinks is important.
I've toyed with something like using ventangles rules for out-of-mech action (very fast paced, very lite, very lethal) and nechronica combat for mechs. Too hard to properly mash the mechanics together though so was just gonna go for-fun-mashup-crossover-scenario of occult horror and robots (kinda Demonbane kind of vibe) for friends experienced with both games.
Next time I actually try to run/play a mecha game though we'll probably just do Genesys (I love Star Wars FFG and I think the narrative dice would be a very easy way to simulate things like part damage and environmental destruction without actually going too hard and autistic on those things as actual mechanics).
Also it goes without saying but Nechornica (proper nechronica with the zombie/mutant/cyborg girls) is great, everyone should play it.
I think Nech vanilla is kind of a drag because everything you can do in combat is predefined in the rules and players aren’t made to expect non-defined actions like distracting enemies or interacting with the environment. I think I’ll add a lot of homebrew to the combat phase once I finalise /m/echronica.
I wonder what system would be a good fit to use for out-of-mech fights if Ventangle is too hard to mash in…
It's one of the most tactical and deep systems you could play in terms of action economy, reactions and counter plays. I had a 4 year Nechronica campaign and by the end battles were absolutely full of mobility, combos, counters, etc.
That being said:
> because everything you can do in combat is predefined in the rules and players aren’t made to expect non-defined actions like distracting enemies or interacting with the environment
Did you read the book? There's a whole section on how to use unorthodox/undefined stuff like that (including using the environment to advantage) etc. outlined in the combat section. It's more advice on how to do it (IE how many AP it'd cost to try and get a machine working or bash down a door or whatever), but it outlines examples on how to do just that within the system.
Actually, to add onto this, one boss fight from aforementioned campaign was a puzzle fight against a mutated horror of a savant who would multiply and spit out clones like The Thing everytime it was struck. The way the GM set up the battle, the only way to beat it was to attack the pillars of the room that it was wrapped around and bring the ceiling down on top of it.
You could borrow the 'stress explosion' language from MAID I guess. That's basically what the effects of maxing out a Fetter is; your coping mechanisms going into overdrive and biting you in the ass. Although the effects where you do stuff like damage a party member become harder to justify when you aren't trying to literally harvest their parts. Maybe fluff it out as recklessness instead, just the pilot emptying every barrel everywhere and hitting friendlies.
There's no reason to ever leave a working mech in Lancer unless you've got Black Thumb and an NHP, because pilots are terrible on purpose and have basically no rules.
Lancer is a combat ruleset without much RPG to hang on to. It's fun, but it only works for very combat slog sorts of games.
I've chipped away at re-adapting Adeptus Evangelion into Nechronica's rules. The thematic overlap is just close enough that I think it'd work.
>Mecha Horror
Names? I am curious now.
Iczer-1 is one of the oldest and most venerable examples, since it was IIRC the one Masami Obari got his work on as an animator. Great OVA, and even comes recommended by Steve Jackson Games (pic related)
Betterman, Blue Gender, and arguably the first half of STP Layzner are frequent recommendations on this topic too. I'd also throw in Demonbane (the VN, don't watch the anime) since while it's overall optimistic and heroic it genuinely gets pretty gruesome and chilling in parts.
It doesn't make sense, you dumb shill.
Lancer mechs are awful. They look like they're welded together out of dumpsters and scrap metal and are probably as comfortable as metal coffins.
And, as much as people love "safety", we're not machines. Even in relative comfort we get fatigued and need to take breaks (just sitting in a car or airplane for more than a few hours is taxing), and operating a mech for extended lengths is often treated as a superhuman talent, because it is.
Lancer's mechs look considerably less comfortable than modern tanks, and soldiers can't stay in those particularly long, to the point where more than 5 or 6 hours of being continuously inside one is rare and results in serious fatigue. And, operating one results in even quicker fatigue and turnover.
Being in a mech should be the exception, not the rule. Only in a game where players are discouraged from thinking like people and encouraged to think like homosexuals would you have people acting like you do, OP.
>they look like
It's a TTRPG they look however you want them to you play this game using your imagination homosexual
The funny thing is I feel the emphasize on Abby wanting to show off his sick cool designs seeps into the actual mechanics and flavor thereof.
In Mekton you build your own robot piece by piece. You decide the frame, you decide mechanically whether it's bipedal or quadraped, you get to decide whether it has tentacle armrs or is an asure. All have mechanical rammifications. Then you outfit it with weapons and systems and whatnot.
In Lancer you're 3d printing out 3d printed robots that already have their own playstyle and structure, and you "merely" get to customize them by adding systems and swapping out weapons.
Sure you can refluff them but personally not being able to build your own robot mechanically is a pretty big deal breaker for me in a giant robot game. You might as well tell me I can't make my own characters in a fantasy game but have to play as the developers premade sheets (and I get to swap out a few weapons and accessories, yay!)
See, I can completely understand and respect this critique. You take pride and satisfaction in the out-of-character construction and customization process, much as a miniature painter enjoys the process of assembling and painting their dudes. I salute you, friend.
But I'm not a miniatures guy, and I prefer to leave the tinkering and tuning to my character. I'm just here to navigate the melee, shout hot-blooded slogans at the npc I've decided is my rival, and hear my friends shout "Nooo!" when I eject mid-battle to perilously fight alongside my mech.
We might not be able to play the same game (unless I'm feeling like some Mekton or Battletech, which happens occasionally), but I think we can still appreciate one another's interests, right?
So you don't like mecha. That's fine! Nobody says you have to like every genre! But hopefully you'll realize now why everyone finds your opinion on what makes a good mecha TRPG worth less than a Zimbabwean dollar.
How many mecha anime feature fully converting and partswapping a brand new robot, as opposed to being a single model with a later season upgrade, maybe with some anti-monster of the week loadouts?
Having a singular, unique, strongly appealing design that gets you through most scenarios is closer to the appeal of mecha anime, whereas armored core garage sim is mecha videogames. These are both fine, but mecha anime came first.
>How many mecha anime feature fully converting and partswapping a brand new robot
This is wrong / not equitable / bullshit.
There's a huge distinction to be made between a giant robot anime and a giant robot RPG though. We're talking CHARACTER CREATION here, and mecha are characters (even the designer of the OG Gundam once said "[the] Gundam is a character").
Even if I'm playing a super robot scenario where my characters mecha is the one and only example of its kind in the entire universe and in fact was constructed by magical aliens 7,000 years prior to the story and no actual customization happens or is even possible in-universe, I STILL want to be able to build the thing from scratch in character creation, decide its appearance, playstyle, mechanics, and fluff. Just the same as if I was playing fantasy fight man game and was deciding the appearance, class, fighting style, etc. of my fantasy fight man.
Again, this is not about mecha anime tropes (which most Lancer fans wouldn't know shit about anyway), this is about being an RPG. Lancer is an RPG. I shouldn't be stuck fellating Abbey's garbage fricking designs, in fluff OR mechanics. I should be able to imagine and concieve my own giant robot to have my own adventures for, rather than essentially being handed a pre-made character sheet and told I get to gradually customize it as I level up.
It's very accurate to mention in response to someone saying "So you don't like mecha" over a lack of desire for full garage mechanics. I don't care about what lancer does, mecha is just as well served by existing types of mech with loadout variation as it is by lego construction.
>this is about being an RPG. Lancer is an RPG
Admittedly I'll amend this slightly because I'm the one who keeps saying Lancer is a (bad) wargame pretending to be an rpg. I can see people claiming the battletech logic for having discrete paintable minis with set designs, but ultimate Lancer was sold to me as a mecha TTRPG and while its mechanics feel like someone tried to adapt Shadow of The Demon Lord into a bad version of a wargame and then threw out all the out-of-combat mechanics, it's still ultimately an rpg more than anything else so I'm going to judge it and its mechanics as a game where I'm supposed to be creating characters and roleplaying through a story.
>It's very accurate to mention in response to someone saying "So you don't like mecha" over a lack of desire for full garage mechanics.
I think it's a somewhat valid response to someone saying as such in the context of a ttrpg, a medium that's entirely built on envisioning and creating your own heroes and playing through adventures created by your group.
A video game? Sure. You don't do any customization in Zone of The Enders and that's the best mecha game ever made. But this is not a video game. Nor is it an anime. This is a ttrpg, and telling me I don't get to make my own robot is like telling me I don't get to make my own dude in dundeys and dargons or pybercunk 20XX.
>mecha is just as well served by existing types of mech with loadout variation
NOT in a fricking ttrpg though. That's my point.
Even in an actual, proper war-game, it'd be fine. But. not. a fricking. ttrpg.
>Even in an actual, proper war-game, it'd be fine. But. not. a fricking. ttrpg.
Or, to amend this one more time, not in a ttrpg FOCUSED on mecha.
For example, Tokyo Nova is a game that mecha in it but is not about mecha. They are just one more thing in the games list of things you can play with, which also includes cyborg ninjas, mutant shapeshifters, super psychics, and other things that can go toe to toe with the mecha Metal Gear Rising style. In this context, it's understandable and acceptable that the giant robots are predefined, essentially being equipment (albeit equipment with more in-depth mechanics associated than other types of equipment in the game).
Ironically EVEN THERE, Tokyo Nova mechs are not as overdesigned as the ones in Lancer. They tend to consist of a small number of stats and a bonus mechanic, and the customizations loaded onto them and the abilities of the person piloting them are far more essential in determining their fighting style and powers.
Honestly I can't get over how Lancer's mechs (especially early on before you get much wiggle room) just feel like the GM handing you a premade character sheet and telling you to shut up and play it. And this is in a fricking game where non-combat rules are practically non-existant. Fricking horrible.
>is like telling me I don't get to make my own dude in dundeys and dargons
You DON'T get to make your own dude in D&D.
In a classless system you can build your character from the ground up, grabbing whatever skills, talents, maneuvers, whatever you want. In class-based systems (AKA: D&D, Lancer) you are literally just picking a class that has a set advancement. Oh, you might get to throw on a Perk (called Talents in Lancer) and yeah, you get to pick your weapons, sure. Lancer is just another class-based RPG.
While I agree with you, Dungaroos and Dagnabbits STILL has far more customization than Lancer. And I say that as someone who dropped Dindy mainly because of how routelocked I felt by it.
Ok, so at best you like super-robo games and hate real robo games.
>wouldn't know shit
This assertion is starting to become hilarious coming for you.
>real robo games
Ironic, coming from the guy defending the game where a gangster computer god anally birthed by a cluster minority report computers steals c'tan shards from 40K and uses them to power really shitty looking meat mechs that fart black holes and borrow Destiny lore to explain their functionality.
Oh yeah, and this is all cyberpunk somehow too.
I was talking about how your inane drivel suggest e.g. Battletech is not a mecha game.
I assume everything in your latest post is something in regards to Lancer, to which I'll say - none of that matters if these are standard, non-unique models used by other people in the setting. You might have Christ-powered golems piloted by virginal maidens and it would still be borderline "real robo" if these are just regular soldiers piloting regular warmachines that roughly obey common sense physics.
If you make any appeal to "realism" or real world common sense, then you're throwing the entire genre out. Even VOTOMS is complete nonsense driven more by aesthetics than nerdy engineering and military theory.
>your inane drivel
Wasn't my post, but that's somewhat irrelevant
>Battletech is not a mecha game.
Battletech is a mecha wargame with TRPGs that let you play in that wargame's world and are intended to synergize with said wargame, it's a fundamentally different beast. It also doesn't advertise itself as THE mecha RPG so I wouldn't expect the same level of flexibility that I'd expect from a game claiming to be the one stop shop for all thing mecha.
>it would still be borderline "real robo" if these are just regular soldiers
Lancers aren't just regular soldiers though. Regular soldiers don't even exist since REAL wars are just fought by telekinetic kill clouds plinking at each other from entirely different star systems. Lancers only exist to bully dirt farming individualists
>piloting regular warmachines that roughly obey common sense physics
They don't. They run on literal magic that Abby borrowed the terminology from Destiny to justify.
Your definition of real robot is hilariousy shit by the way, as under it Gurren Lagann would be Real Robot and Chromehounds would be Super Robot.
>Gurren Lagann is a grounded show about regular individuals piloting standard model mechs
We have reached the schizo threshold.
The Lagann is quite literally a standard model mass produced by the antispirals, speedwatcher-kun. By your definition it fits Real Robot, especially if Lancer does.
You're reading comprehension is shit. Everything I said applies whether you're talking "real" or "super" or anything in between (as if those genres aren't super vague and often intermixed but whatever).
It's not about the mecha genre or tropes, it's about it being a fricking ttrpg.
Again, even if the robot is one of a kind IN-UNIVERSE, or if it's mass produced IN-UNIVERSE, in a ttrpg specifically, on a meta-character creation level, (you) should generally get to define it before the game starts. There are exceptions for certain types of games but generally I consider this a good rule of thumb.
disclaimer: I've never actually played D&D. But I have played a ton of class based systems and none of them are anywhere fricking NEAR the absolute absurd level of Lancer in terms of just handing you a fricking premade character sheet at the start and saying "lol you can swap the big sword for a little sword if you like lol".
Tokyo Nova for instance you start by mixing and matching 3 classes, which gives you your "miracle" meta skill and set of attributes. You then use starting xp to purchase additional attributes, skills from among the 3 classes (of which there is a huge laundry list, and limitations preventing you from buying them all so two characters of the same class might be radically different), and equipment (of which there are numerous categories from weapons and armor to bio-horror-mutations to cybernetics to vehicles to magical items etc.)
Even at 0 xp two characters in Tokyo Nova of the same exact classes are going to be radically different in terms of playstyle, fighting style, abilities, etc.
Lancer on the other hand is simply absurd, especially at the starting level. Mechs already have their attributes and abilities baked in, all you get to do is swap out a few weapons and "systems" which early on feel like barely anything. And that's not getting into how at "level 0" the game lets you only use one mech.
>disclaimer: I've never played D&D, and also I haven't played a class-based system at all I played a classless system called Tokyo Nova
why am I giving this moron shit a (you)
I mostly play Japanese TTRPG's (Tokyo Nova, Nechronica, Dracurouge, Tenra Bansho Zero, Dracurouge, Night Wizard, etc.), which are vey often "class" based but heavily employ multiclassing.
Does multiclassing make it "classless" to you, even when the classes supply you with your attributes and access to skills from said class?
And yes, I will never fricking play 5e. Frick you.
(I have also of course played western TTRPG's, my favorite being Star Wars FFG...but given you're hazy definition of what counts as "classless" I have no fricking idea whether that counts or not).
>Tenra Bansho Zero
How is that to actually play? I've had the rules sitting around for years, but never managed to get a group for it, so I'm wondering how it feels on the table.
It's a wonderful game. I don't get to play it often but I've literally never had a bad game of it. It's just one of those games that brings out the best in everyone and always leads to a good time.
I love JTTRPG's because they often feel like they were built from the ground up around a focused premise to be as mechanically flavorful at possible. What seperates TBZ from the rest is the karma/kiai system, which is a fantastic risk/reward gambling, morality, and "stunting" system all baked into one. It's a load of fun and encourages everyone to get involved in eachother's roleplay and make fun gambles in-battle.
Only thing to note about it is that it's designed with one-shots in mind and doesn't have much if anything in the way of character advancement mechanics. So if you want to play a "campaign" you have to basically reset everyone to square 1 power-wise after every "scenario" and just continue an episodic story with the same characters.
Also it's technically on topic since it has mecha.
>I have played a ton of class based systems and none of them are anywhere fricking NEAR the absolute absurd level of Lancer in terms of just handing you a fricking premade character
Now you got me curious.
Again, unless you're counting multiclass based systems or class/subclass based systems (the majority of Japanese TTRPG's, that mechanic is just really popular over there it seems) as "classless" somehow.
No, but that poster wrote "a ton of class based systems" which is what got me curious.
Pretty much all the JTTRPG's I listed count.
>Tokyo Nova has you combine 3 classes.
>Nechronica uses class + subclass (doubling up on the same class gives a unique special ability). Characters bodies are also literally built from parts that you get using part-tree points you get from your classes and character advancement, so most characters tend to be radically different even if they have the same class.
>Ventangle uses a class + subclass system (though in this case the two are wildly different, the former being "origin" a class that represents your species / what you are, and the other being "adept" your specialty, more of a traditional class)
>Dracurouge does similar making your combine your vampiric bloodline with your noble house
>Night Wizard likewise has you pick multiple classes, but it also has an interesting reclassing system where every so often you're allowed to trade one of your classes for a new one while keeping skills you previously purchased. IE character development could be represented by starting out as a human-turned mutant, then becoming a sorcerer, then later selling your soul to a yozi to become a demon, etc.
I'm not sure if Tenra Bansho Zero counts as class based or classless. Essentially you purchase archetypes which have both requirements and benefits of their own, and you can stack them till a certain limit.
Zoids
Gundam UC (Gundam, Guntank, and Guncannon are all piloted by interchangeable Core Fighters)
08th MS Team
IBO even if it failed to properly utilize the gimmick
L. Gaim
Macross had the while integration tech going for it
VOTOMS
Chromehounds
Armored Core
I also forgot
Valvrave
Gurren Lagann
Megas XLR
I'm sure more will come to me over time too
>Gundam, Guntank, and Guncannon are all piloted by interchangeable Core Fighters
Mongoloid post.
Gundam and Guncannon literally comes in two discrete parts that assemble around a Core Fighter, moron. The initial conceit of the series is that they had enough parts for MORE Gun-X mobile suits but had to blow em up to keep them out of Zeon hands, Guncannon and Tank were assembled AFTER escaping the colony based on the parts they could save, too. It's not the megazord style assembly you were demanding but the show outright tells you that those mobile suits had interchangeable parts at a degree of granularity that Lancer completely lacks.
You have no idea what the actual discussion is and are just making sounds.
I get it, you are very upset at being proven wrong. But that's no reason to throw a tantrum like a petulant child.
This is the OG Mecha game vs nu-Mecha game debate present even in Battletech.
Originally, mechs were distinct models with limited customization (if any at all). Later it became all about full customized personalized lego-kit robots.
Lancer went in the OG direction, likely because they wanted to make recognizable designs that people can talk about. But for some reason they did not follow this up by providing an enemy version of every single mech model, so you have these supposedly widespread and recognizable models... that for some reason don't get used by pirate leaders to harry mining installations.
While it isn't 1:1, a couple of the NPC templates map well to the player mechs. My group spent the back third of our last campaign fighting Harrison Armory "Acquisition Teams".
Which ones?
Mekton is a much better game than this gay communist hipster trash, not sure why you mech-heads don't play that instead.
Based ty. Frick Lancer and their delusional bullshit.
Well, it's the same reason players hate taking off their armor or leaving their weapons at the door. They don't have a script that's gonna keep them alive until a suitably dramatic moment. Gundam sure does like to kill characters for doing dumb shit on the battlefield, though.
It's basically impossible to entice a character to expose themselves to risk just to be thematic or realistic.
It is kind of cool though. TTRPG isn't anime, and most of the time even in anime you're only getting out of the mech for drama, like to hold a dying man in your arms (in the middle of an active warzone).
Why the frick would they exit the mech to talk, do they not have radios? What kind of moron gets out of his giant robot "without hesitation"?
In Lancer's case it also doesn't help that rules and options for pilot gameplay outside the mech are rather limited, so it's like telling a mechanic to leave his toolbox behind to take a look at the car down the road.
>I haven't seen many works featuring mecha
Neither have the Lancer devs.
Elaborate? What problems stand out to you? Genuinely curious, I haven't seen much mecha stuff either but a buddy of mine got me into Lancer last week (was an awesome time) and I just binge watched all of Evangelion. Also, recommendations for mecha works?
>Elaborate?
I think the devs said they deliberately avoided watching ANY mecha series, trying to avoid influence in order to be more unique?
I remember some friends saying they lurked the discord and most people there were the type of guys who'd only watched real flavor of the month type stuff and nothing more.
>Also, recommendations for mecha works?
Really depends on what you're into, as said the genre is pretty vast and has had everything from horror to magical girls to gritty hard sci-fi war stories to fanciful super heroes to swords and sorcerery fantasy.
Personally my favorite mecha work is Demonbane (the VN, again don't watch the anime). Combines a pulpy lovecraft/conan esque style with horror, magic, and heroism.
Currently watching Magic Knight Rayearth, a pastiche of sparkling fantasy adventure, magical girl warriors, and mecha. Been on my watchlist for ages and I'm really enjoying finally getting to it.
Gundam 0079 and VOTOMS are also good recs if you want something grittier but still adventurous and swashbuckling. On the other hand if you want something more fanciful and superheroic, GaoGaiGar is a good entrypoint for the super robot genre. It's technically a kids show (though one with a massive amount of jiggling breasts) but it's full of energy and great animation and it builds up to one of the most memorable and adrenaline packed climaxes I've ever seen.
>I think
So, do you have anything to substantiate this?
It's just hearsay from threads, but true or not it doesn't matter too much. Either way Lancer's lore and setting doesn't really show much if any anime influence or homage.
Cool, thanks. The letter the devs put in the front of the book about muh cis males put a bad taste in my mouth, so I figured I'd ask
>I remember some friends saying they lurked the discord and most people there were the type of guys who'd only watched real flavor of the month type stuff and nothing more.
That discord is just a bubble of people who jumped on Lancer because their favorite webcomic artist (whose mechs look like shit btw.) is involved and decided it's their thing now too and emanates that out of every pore. The last time I went there just to quit it I noticed they have a channel where they list the reasons why they banned users and holy shit is that the energy of the entire place in a nutshell like
>Banned because the user typed weird, probably a troll
Among others that make you immediately realize they are not right in the head, like users unironically getting banned for being "fascists" in their eyes. And as always if you check out community driven content in other places, like from the people who actually play and engage with the system the vast majority has none of that pronouns and flags bullshit going on and take inspiration from mecha anime, so just another niche thing invaded and held in an iron grip by "those people" stepping over everyone as their entire purpose is to narcissistically broadcast the one thing that they based their entire personality around and has nothing to do with the niche they are in.
> so just another niche thing invaded and held in an iron grip by "those people"
In this case it's less of an invasion when the original creators are also 'that' and put it in the foreward of the frickin' book.
Regardless I'd be able to forgive it if the game actually had some semblance of flavor or played half as decently as fans say it does. But really it's just a very mediocre combat system with character creation that too frequently takes control from you, shitty out of combat rules, and the most unlikable setting I've ever read wrapped up in the air of a smug Californian sneering at the genre they claim to be homaging.
I'm sorry, I almost feel bad at banging on it for the few half-sane people who like it, but it's really hard not to hate.
Yeah the first thing I noticed when joining the Discord was the huge ban list as long as featurecreep in a shitty Kickstarter. Doesn't give me much confidence seeing that or paid game advertisements half the time too.
I just want to give mech games a go, so tired of 40k and DnD 5e. I'm still going through the rules for Lancer and despite being very light in some areas I look forward to giving it a go at some point, if it happens. I just want to go around in a Genghis and turn a battlefield into a ash filled hellscape.
And how would one go about finding games that aren't brimming with pronoun and flag morons?
It's a shame that this kind of frothing lunatic is making games now as opposed to people who actually care about fun and not pushing some fricking agenda
>a gay person was at my table once 🙁
>I think the devs said they deliberately avoided watching ANY mecha series, trying to avoid influence in order to be more unique?
>I remember some friends saying they lurked the discord and most people there were the type of guys who'd only watched real flavor of the month type stuff and nothing more
Do you have an actual complaint?
Well I think both of those things mentioned are pretty lame but I've made a laundry list of "serious" complaints about the pure gameplay in this thread.
That person has been BTFO so utterly they've devolved into making petulant passive-aggressive snips like a Karen denied her refund. I'd just ignore them, as they have nothing worthwhile to add.
>recommendations for mecha works?
In no particular order: Gurren Lagann, Code Geass, Full Metal Panic, Valvrave, and Cross Ange are all worth watching, although the last two are kind of in the "I can't decide if this is actually good, or if it's such incredible trash it manages to wrap around to being entertaining" category
If you liked Evangelion, check out Adeptus Evangelion - .it's a fanmade hack for the d100 WH40k Dark Heresy system, and because it's based on the Dark Heresy rules, there's decent coverage for any dismounted/out-of-mecha stuff. And of course, because it's EVA, there are very clear times to get in the mecha and get out of it.
>"I can't decide if this is actually good, or if it's such incredible trash it manages to wrap around to being entertaining" category
They're the second thing, especially Valvrave. It's amusing and has neat elements, but doesn't have a damn clue what it's doing with really any of them. Just more stuff stapled onto the previous stuff (which is coincidentally also Dorssia's mechanical design ethos).
I'll give you Valvrave. That show was throwing shit at the wall to see what would stick, but it was funny to see what weird crap they would come up with next.
Cross Ange is an odd one, because although it initially presents itself as a fanservice-heavy 'Women In Prison'-style exploitation film (but with mecha! And dragons!), after a certain point it starts dishing out an unexpectedly competent critique of the entitled incel mindset, and pulls some stuff that made me go "huh, this actually has a competent team of writers who know what they're doing. I don't have to say I'm only enjoying this ironically, or I'm only here for the breasts and ass".
>I haven't seen many works featuring mecha, but from what I recall, there are very few scenes in the storyline where the pilots hesitate to leave their mechs.
What shows are you talking about? Pilots rarely leave their mechs if at all during a combat situation in most mecha anime I've watched. Only in extreme circumstances do they ever do it, like if they NEED to do something like infiltrate a position to open a gate or something like that, before directly heading back to their wienerpit. Lancer simulates this pretty well; regular infantry in shows like Gundam are basically sitting ducks to a mech, and even the main characters are made to feel useless when walking around on foot in a mecha battlefield.
In contrast, when dealing with infantry, an anime mecha pilot on foot is a BADASS and can kick all kinds of ass just because they're awesome, and Lancer also simulates this really well by having a completely different, looser, narrative-focused conflict resolution for scenes outside of a mecha mission, so you can definitely do something like using the narrative system for when your character is running around an enemy base in low-G, doing floating dive kicks into mobs of soldiers and fricking shit up on their way to the hangar, and then switching to the actual combat system when they finally get into their mech.
shill, chill the frick out.
Go do something productive like actually play a game or read a book; going around threads you have no interest in actually contributing just to be an annoying schizo is probably worsening your already fragile mental state, anon.
Learn how to post without sounding like a clumsy advertisement before you try to lecture anyone on how to post here.
adies ladies youre both pretty
Learn to actually play some games you enjoy before you come post on a board about game discussions. You might actually realize that some people enjoy the games they play and want to talk about it positively instead of being a joyless moron yelling shill at every two posters.
I'm going to give you some ten million dollar advice.
Try reading your posts from the perspective of someone who isn't going to give you the benefit of the doubt. If you can't do that, stick to shilling on twitter.
The thing is, Lancer is one of the few games where we actually have documented evidence of a shill coming here, trying to advertise, and then admitting that he was a shill who came here to advertise when he also announced he was looking for playtesters.
He made daily threads that were "Hey fellow kids, have you heard about the new amazing RPG by the creator of Kill Six Million Demons™? It features exciting combat, exhilarating narrative components, jaw-dropping font selection and formatting, and is available both in PDF and PDF with Color! Go check out the Kickstarter right now, for the greatest mech game ever made~!"
>The thing is, Lancer is one of the few games where we actually have documented evidence of a shill coming here, trying to advertise, and then admitting that he was a shill who came here to advertise when he also announced he was looking for playtesters.
Do you have any evidence to back that up?
I can believe it but I also can't believe it
The grognards of /tg/ all same the same schizo shit every fricking time about whatever system the /tg/ grognards are hating because gays are in it.
Epic forum sliding, my fellow chosen tribe!
He was already here back when he proposed the first draft of a potentially mapless mecha battle system based around boosting/powersliding mechanics.
>boosting/powersliding mechanics
i wish. 🙁
>get told to stop being a schizo
>replies with even more schizo shit
never change
I bet you got your ass kicked in the Pilotnet Discord.
>Gundam
>only in extreme circumstances
Fricker, I'm currently watching the entire series for the first time and all seasons that I've seen so far (release order up to Victory) were choke full of main characters randomly opening their wienerpits and/or leaving their mechs for no sane reason.
The same fricking mechs that are infamous for having no system for locking out unauthorized users, which can be hijacked instantly if they are found by any random dipshit.
I swear that the Gundam fandom is incapable of comprehending reality. I hate you for having made me to suffer through the entirety of Zeta.
What a shitty fricking show. Even the ending was disappointing, despite technically giving me what I've been craving for.
It will be all be worth it when you eventually watch Tomino's magnum opus Turn A.
Go watch Patlabor. If you can get past the goofy slice of life vibes, the show is pretty well grounded for being about giant robots.
>I hate you for having made me to suffer through the entirety of Zeta.
Zeta's basically a Marvel/DC mecha show as far as the writing is concerned - there are a bunch of people working on it and they all insert their personal interpretation of the characters into every episode they're in charge of writing.
They switch frequently and at random.
It's not a real mech story unless you are sometimes forced out of your mech to do some shit on foot.
Unironically, and why I think a TTRPG for mecha that doesn't have solid on-foot rules that feel distinct from the mech action is shit.
You NEED that stuff for a sense of scale and catharsis when the big robot action actually does go down.
Hell yeah.
It's because Lancer is shit and the creators hate anime or powerful humans because they're communist bugpeople.
The reason is that Lancer is about 1/4 of a /m/ RPG, with some c-tier designs, and fluff that doesn't read well. Somehow, Mekton is a better rulebook, and Mekton is a hot mess.
Generally speaking, I would avoid Massif Press material like it was stored in a plague pit. I cannot fathom why their quality control is like that.
Tell me about your favourite encounter you've run.
My system has limb based combat for mechs, but when out of mech you're more vulnerable because large creatures treat you as if you have one health pool instead of five (one per limb) and you're much easier to damage. Simple size multipliers - You take 1.5x more damage (rounded down) each category larger the enemy is and deal .5 less (rounded down when totaled) damage. For example, a human (size 1) takes 3x damage from most mech attacks. They take 6x damage from Themata class weapons, which are gargantuan and even do 3x damage to most mechs - Other than super-heavy Millenary frames which take 1.5x. This goes for any enemy that is comparable in size - For example, a human going up against a Hill Aionys would be taking 6x damage each hit while dealing significantly less. Not saying it's impossible, but it'd require a specific build and prep to mitigate damage reduction and prevent hits.
Other than damage multipliers, mechs can chain attacks on getting sufficient hit rolls. Say a sword has a chain count of 3 and a chain sequence of 3-3-4, when it rolls its five hit dice if 3 are a hit it can then roll its five hit dice again, if it gets 3 again it can roll its hit dice once more, and if it gets 4 hits this time it can roll a final time for a full chain which it can then finish with an applicable legendary action for free or pass to a teammate in attack range to keep the chain going. Characters on foot cannot do that. Additionally attacks in mech are primarily determined by two stats - Torque and Heft - While attacks on foot are determined by a single overall Physique stat.
Since the game is grid/field based there are also places pilots can get that mechs can't, and pilots can also - With sufficient luck and skill checks - Board enemy mechs to try to kill the pilot directly. There can be utility to hiding a guy on a bridge and having him drop down on the enemy mech from behind then using it to damage its allies.
Good post.
Leaving a mech in combat is stupid (yes, mecha anime characters do it frequently, but they usually have plot armor). Leaving a mech to do human-scale things outside of a fight is normal. I don't have enough context to decide if your GM is just overly punishing (and thus made the players paranoid) or if the players are too attached to their armored chassis.
For Lancer specifically, it sounds like at least one of you should take the Black Thumb 1 talent. Gives you a personal shield when you leave the wienerpit.
The other problem is that anything that isn't mech combat in Lancer is incredibly vague and poorly designed in a way that actively discourages getting out of the mech for any reason. You are weak, you will die, you have no reliable way of doing meaningful damage to anyone in a vehicle or mech, and the ruleset for dealing with all of it is a super floaty d20 roll where a single roll can cover an entire mission or a single action, because the designers are kind of moronic.
I don’t know what the frick you’re watching but in mecha shows I’ve seen and mecha books I’ve read, getting out is almost exclusively reserved for situations when the mech is stuck, broken, surrendering, or in a thoroughly safe area, or when the characters absolutely have to do something in person (like say use a superpower which doesn’t work from within the mech). And this is entirely expected. Maybe you just haven’t built a world or set up situations where your players need or want to do this.
TFW you license a caliban frame so you never have to leave your mech.
I mean...you do know it's a mecha combat focused RPG right? If you're not running your game in a way where the players don't feel the need to be outside their mech, they won't; It's that simple. You can have a landslide/avalanche strand a mech and the pilots have to help dig it out by hand lest they risk causing damage, maybe you send the party on patrol and they have to check in with their post/boss in person at least once during the mission. Maybe the local weather is messing with their cameras/sensors and the pilots need to inspect something outside their mechs in person. Aside from just the directly mission related reasons or your players are agoraphobes they will eventually need to eat, shower, report to HQ, go shopping, or do recreational activities and get out of the mech eventually. Not to piss in your cornflakes or anything, but if that's what you're looking for in RPG and you're not seeing it at the table you're playing at; speak up. Otherwise you deserve to sit in that mech and sweat, doing nothing but combat stuff. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.
>x is my love language
Holy cringe, this really is a troongame
have you ever seen the dev's twitter? its one of the most unhinged troony shitfit autism accounts on the site. I'll never play this shit game, even 5e isnt as gay
Yeah...I saw it, once. Then I started stripping what I needed from the lore to make the manufacturers/brands work, and rewrote the rest. It's amazing what you can accomplish when you don't let other groups and opinions effect what's happening at YOUR table.
All power to you king, hope you're having fun. I'd rather play something that isnt the work of a demented mind though (so my own homebrews are a no go!)
I play it but throw out all of the lore and only use free or pirated materials so they literally do it for free.
My homie.
The only thing I have to share are my shitty tokens and opinions, but that's still more than what you're contributing to this conversation.
are these models printable, or is that all texture work?
The mechs themselves are so I'd hope so.
Technically both. I prep STLs intended for printing into game assets to be used on 3D VTTs. I run my mecha games on Talespire at a 75mm scale, my cyberpunk games at 28mm so I can recycle and share boards, and use tape measure movement on my minis. Frick grids and hexes.
awesome. You have them uploaded anywhere for download? i'd love to print me some mechs
I'm not a print modeler, but I can tell you where I bought most of my stuff from Papsikels, Adamant Arsenal, Unit 9, Cyberforge on MyMiniFactory or Cults. If not there then I probably pulled them in this dump of converted tabletop simulator minis https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1jEIooxbqPvydnPf7v2csnE83jeWEfzFX
>have you ever seen the dev's twitter?
I just went to take a look and it sounds like you might be unhinged.
Not my greatest paintjob, but only a bootymad homosexual would associate everything lancer with the troonytoons.
>only a bootymad homosexual would associate everything lancer with the troonytoons.
You certainly type like a troon and have the aesthetic sense of one.
>You certainly type like a troon and have the aesthetic sense of one.
Sounds like you're the one getting wiener-whipped by sodomite freaks getting bent out of shape over my shitty paint job. I can keep posting my shitty little mech tokens, but what do you have to prove to the rest of /tg/ in this thread?
Not that anon but I think the only thing wrong with this pic-related is the reason the horse is being killed. Every Lancer thread should suffer an instant and premature death, but I say this not because of troons but because I like mecha anime and Lancer was made by (and to an extent, for) people who hate it.
>but hey; you're in a lancer thread lol.
Sorry chud, claiming this thread in the name of mecha in general.
>and it's also shit
Yes it's just not very good. Fans say "NO NO THE COMBAT IS SUPER SMOOTH AND SNAPPY". It really isn't. It's janky as shit and not particularly fast paced, and that's compared to way crunchier games our group has run.
>I think the only thing wrong with this pic-related is the reason the horse is being killed.
pic related
>Sorry chud, claiming this thread in the name of mecha in general.
Go start your own mecha general thread, I wanna b***h more about how license levels are fricking stupid lol
Hello there lancer shill, how did the kickstarter go for you
>implying I'm a shill
>implying I pay for TTRPG materials
You know huffing paint and gasoline are bad for your health right?
I'm not implying it I'm out right stating it
>willfully ignores me wanting to discuss what I don't like about the game
Because nobody likes lancer and nobody wants to talk about it, this thread is fail and full of AIDS
It sounds like you're just telling me to do what you want me to do. Are you mad because your folks didn't beat you enough growing up?
>It sounds like you're just telling me to do what you want me to do.
Hello ESL shill.
I am aware that you are getting paid a very miniscule amount to post on this website, but please at least try to do better at blending in.
I'm annoying for free moron
Gundam
Why Gundam?
>he does it for free
Yeah, your dad definitely didn't beat you enough
NTA, but clearly lancer is btfo and so are you
>btfo
Then why keep the thread alive unless you wanna talk Lancer? Paint fumes are not good for your brain dude.
This is the Gundam thread.
Lancer isnt worth pirating
>working combat (unlike literally any other Mecha rpg)
>makes morons seethe
I only see positives.
Lancer is a shitty game not even worth pirating because of the reasons already described in this thread.
Shoo shoo, shill!
>working combat (unlike literally any other Mecha rpg)
Not really? There's a few that are fairly decent, and Lancer's combat is thoroughly mediocre.
In fact it's such a bad combination of flavorless (it literally unironically does not feel like mecha at all) and janky/inelegant that I question what even the point of playing it is. I think at this point I'd really rather just refluff literally anything else. Sure you're not getting the most flavorful game mechanics that way, but you're sure as hell not getting them from Lancer. The game unironically just feels like someone took Shadow of The Demon Lords action economy, slapped it on a hex grid, and threw in some mech buzz words like "HEAT" and called it a day. "Inelegant" is the other word that always comes to mind when I think of Lancer's combat, all the mechanics just feel slapped together and yet you still never get away from feeling like you're playing "hex grid fantasy fight man simulator" with a mecha refluff.
Personally I'd strongly recommend Tokyo Nova over Lancer. It's not a mecha system (sci-fi action movie / cyberpunk) but its vehicles are fun on top of the best core combat mechanics of any ttrpg I've played, and it gave me the best super robot campaign I've ever had.
I'm also looking forward to trying the fan made mecha supplement for Genesys. I really really, REALLY like Genesys, it has interesting vehicle rules, and the narrative dice are perfect for mecha.
And your dad is clearly your uncle too.
Gundam thread
You're correct, but then why are you here feeding this thread? Go promote the things you actually enjoy instead of perpetuating the bad?
Not that anon but I'm personally glad to see that Lancergays get chased out of town by mobs with torches and pitchforks whenever they leave the safety of their containment thread. A nice little reminder that /tg/ - as far as it's fallen - still has SOME standards and taste.
I'm just glad the horrendous lancergays don't shit up mecha monday anymore. There was one thread completly derailed by a lancergay mad at mekton, a real shitshow to witness.
I like Lancer, it gives me a level of tactical complexity in my games thats been lacking otherwise. It's more of a mini war game than an ttrpg tho.
>Go start your own mecha general thread
There are but I'd prefer this one die as well or just become another mecha general
> how license levels are fricking stupid lol
Have you considered playing a less awful game.
Yeah the whole concept of 3d printing robots BUT YO GOT A LOISCENCE FOR DAT MATE is fricking stupid as is the setting in general with its nonsensical and tone deaf mashup of star trek faux optimism with cyberpunk faux edginess facilitated by pages and pages of near unreadable technobabble. The "let's take shadow of the demon lord on a grid and haphazardly staple on some 'mech-ish' elements" combat is honestly more trouble than just refluffing another game to be about giant robots (which is not far away from what the combat already is).
>n-no u!
Gee anon, you seem awfully bent out of shape over people being disparaging of troons. Got something you wanna share with us?
NTA, but I support homosexuals solely because it's hilarious when you homosexuals seethe and pretend you're not mad over trannies.
>I'm not mad, YOU are!
Sure thing, my little bumpgay
>thinks everyone with a dissenting opinion is bumpgay
>bumped a thread solely to seethe more about trannies
Dilate.
>anon tries to understand a joke impossible challenge
The "joke" is only funny if you love troonspeak.
Some of the best scenes in mecha fiction are outside a mecha
Casper betraying Naoko in Evangelion is engraved into my mind
Lancer isn't actually a mecha rpg, but the unfortunate western mech counterpart that delights in creating charmless, ugly contraptions then putting their similarly ugly pilots in their wienerpits. I hope this helps.
Lancer is a shitty game for shitty people. Fact.
Lancer is a fun game with an unfortunately troony-heavy fanbase. I wish /tg/ was as smart as I like to believe it is and could separate the two things, but we're just not there yet.
I tried playing it to give it an honest shot. The gameplay is honestly not that good and I have no idea why people shill it or put up with the horrible lore for a mediocre clunky combat system. Granted I'm spoiled by JTTRPG's which tend to be the exact opposite of Lancer in terms of elegance and focused, flavorful mechanics, but even compared to other western RPG's that I enjoy, it doesn't feel like a particularly well crafted system.
(to add onto this, I give the actual mechanics a 5/10 or a 6/10 at most, and the lore/setting a 0/10 or 1/10 at most)
>I wish /tg/ was as smart as I like to believe it is and could separate the two things
I'm purely convinced half the replies in this thread are from socially moronic GMs who don't know how to fricking gatekeep weirdos from their table and no-lifes that have convinced themselves that anything a looneytroon wrote is going to instantly give them the AIDS and the Gay by somehow acknowledging the author is kinda fricking cat-shit crazy. Like don't get me wrong I would love to talk about how license levels feel like participation trophies and how it kinda neuters the tension to combat with players knowing they're getting the gucci shit they want whether they pass or how rules for money and economics are in a secondary supplement, but hey; you're in a lancer thread lol.
>Lancer is a fun game
No need to lie to yourself and the world like this, shill.
People who use "fun" like the way most people use "interesting," ie. as a polite, noncommittal word of pseudo-praise to at least offer something while they are too scared of expressing anything resembling a meaningful opinion, should be dragged out into the street and shot.
Good to see /tg/ is back to saying fun doesn't actually exist.
People always talk about separating the work from the creator like its a skill or a level of maturity, but when in this case it's made by crazy people and it's also shit and this isn't a scenario where any separation gets you anywhere.
If you're regularly in lancer threads you're just gonna have to get used to people pointing this out. It's not very good and the creators are weird and unlikable.
Heavy Gear y/n? A buddy of mine is getting ready to DM a lancer game and I'd like to divert them to something better if possible, though I will admit comp/con and the foundry systems in place are super appealing for just being able to drop shit in and go.
Wait for the new edition and see how that shapes up. The older editions are a mixed bag.
https://banzaidyne.wordpress.com/heavy-gear-d6/
Or just play HGD6, much easer and smoother to play and run than the silhouette system.
Why is this a problem?
It's like the people who run Rogue Trader games and complain when the PCs want to hire 20 bodyguards or a small APC.
Designing encounters takes too long and I'm a lazy bastard, has no one compiled a bunch of cool read to use sitreps?
>haven't seen many works featuring mecha
Why would you admit this and then still make the thread
Because he's an unironic shill.
Oh I see now there was a game kick started for lancer last year, he is probably here trying to trick people into buying his backlog
That's because Lancers pilot rules are hot garbage, add in more detail, implement rodeoing properly and get shit to actually do once you're out of the mechs and it'll be fine.
While you're at it, get rid of the "Zero consequence free replacement mech" thing. Its moronic and makes the combat completely lack any teeth or consequences for failure.
Friend was so put off and kept joking about "rest to recover your spells/mech".
Yeah, I just nicked the rules and used it to play in the battletech setting. Have the mechs actually be military hardware and their damage be treated as a big deal and it works. Had a support player in the dumper mech and he had a great time.
>Yeah, I just nicked the rules and used it to play in the battletech setting
Yeah we unanimously agreed to play in our own made up setting. Magitech fantasy mecha (dunbine / galient / rayearth kind of deal).
I don't think anyone in our group wanted to have anything to do with the official setting. We still didn't really have a good time though because the combat is just not that fun. Ended up dropping it before the final battle of the scenario, which is a shame because we were actually having a good time with the roleplay and setting. Thinking we might port some of the characters and setting over to Genesys.
Good on you, I used the old star wars tech books or shadowtech for gadgets and stuff the players could buy.
>shitty out of combat rules
That is what killed my interest. I was reading the rules and had constant "This is it? Where is the rest of it?" moments as I searched how pilots, you know, the actual characters that players control to do things outside of mech combat do anything. Downtime activities should be something extra to use to skip tedium on occassions, not the entire thing that there is. One of the first thoughts that plopped into my head was
>What if a player says they want to go into nearby store to buy something.
because the rules don't support something so simple, besides them having no currency (and apparently getting paid in mech licenses which makes zero sense), by the rules they don't even have an extra inventory to carry it. And with the player characters being this bare bones you'd think they at least add on to it in the other books but instead they added a currency system that is only some alternate mecha progression way and some gimmicky tarrot/bond system.
Tell me about it. I got a 30 minute scene of good roleplay and literally the only thing that I could do mechanically was a single roll with a +1 generic modifier.
Mechanically it felt so fricking boneless.
Compare to my old Tokyo Nova super robot pilot character who had fairly fun stealth abilities and had quite a few fun options in both flavor and mechanics even before shit went down and she summoned her dragon knight bot (and by the nature of the game, the checks you choose to make and how you make them actually tie into your battle thanks to the games card system).
>mech gets destroyed in battle
>take nap
>mech is fully restored
So this is the power of Black gangster computer god communism...
Richly deserved dunking on Lancer aside:
Remember, ideal female mecha pilot outfit should be highleg leotard.
>Lancer advertises itself as being incredibly gay and inclusive, which of course means every white male is presented as a schlub, villain or comedic relief while the real heavy-lifting comes from women
>I'm sorry, Female-Presenting Persons and Male-Presenting Persons, it's important to use the terminology.
>CRB was this way, Long Rim was this way, KTB was this way and the officially-encouraged Kickstarter strategy game was this way
>Things start to cool, people begin to lose interest in LANCER
>Dustgrave comes out
>Basically everyone is a white male-presenting person or a white female-presenting person, and the female-presenting persons are actually kind of attractive in a gross western hegemonical way
A tale as old as time. I saw it happen with Beyond Earth, I'm seeing it here.
It's a very ugly game. You'd never see something cute and beautiful like a small-breasted wide-hipped leggy slender dragon girl in a highleg leotard. That's for sure.
Was gonna say based but small breasts are annoying
They're cute. I like ones that are petite but round and perky.
What's up with western media being so full of uggos anyways?
ESG money enjoys performative acts like making media "reflect the world we live in"
>What's up with western media being so full of uggos anyways?
Women took over the industry.
What's that about Beyond Earth? I'm not following you.
Bump. Someone help a brother understand.
Beyond Earth was an attempt to remake Alpha Centauri, and it failed. I'm not going to go into why the game failed, because that's not what you're asking. So let me get to what you're asking.
The first trailers for Beyond Earth made the focus around a little Indian girl as the "centerpiece" of the game. She was the voice for the Tech tree, she was the main character in the trailers, she was treated as the "soul" of the game in the same way that couple was the "soul" in uhh Civilization VI. Beyond this, the trailers also had a heavy emphasis on showcasing diversity, with most of the figures in the early trailers BIPOC or women, with men being generally seen only in the background or in like, one shot (the Orthodox Priest.) The game also had one white male leader on a faction, and everyone else were either women or colored. It was very multicultural.
So then the game started to die because it sucked, but ole Sid was still willing to give it one last shot. They released an expansion pack for the game called Rising Tide, which much like the expansion for Alpha Centauri added the ability to make aquatic cities. The trailer for Rising Tide was curious; everyone was white. Everyone. It showed white couples, white researchers, white chads with beards or white chads with clean-shaven jaws. The factions they added in were white Germans, a white Britain, and a cute hijab-wearing brown girl who came from the radioactive wastes of the Arabian peninsula.
Consider the following:
%27sCivilization
vs
Oh, and I forgot to add; they replaced the voice of the Indian girl for the tech with Leonard Nemoy. It was a noticeable bleaching of the game.
Whoa, okay. So they tried to regain the goodwill of their target audience instead of hoping to attract a more diverse audience that wasn't there.
You're delusional, that first trailer you linked shows a bunch of filthy poor brown skins desperately trying to be accepted onto rocketships shown to be controlled and operated by exclusively white men, and only a 9/10 cutie gets accepted on. And the base game has 2-3 white male leaders, depending on how stupid you want to get about the elites of Brazil.
Threadly reminder: Lancer's maker dedicated the game to Antifa.
I remember everyone who loved Alpha Centauri hated Beyond Kosher.
The African faction's description was like
>after killing whitey Africans IS KANGZ
as if primitives are suddenly going to reproduce the reich's tech if colonists leave.
>after killing whitey Africans IS KANGZ
Where did you get this? Their description is that they became a fascist military state, led by a guy who got his start killing commies, while their industry and society had to be developed by America and Australia in a deal that ultimately fricked over Africa, but the leader himself admits that his people would never be able to develop on their own.
The original AC had a faction avatar cast that was 3/7 female, 4/7 non-white and 7/7 some minority.
Nobody even thought it's a big deal in 1999.
Man, Godannar. Need to rewatch that some time.
1- Pilots leave their mechs in anime all the fricking time.
2- Why the frick would you leave your mech behind unless you have a good reason to? Tankers don't dismount unless the area is safe or the alternative means death.
Play Battle Century G, it’s everything Lancer wishes it was, but better.
Hello fellow BCG enjoyer.
The Macrowave Cannon is still one of my favorite weapons/abilities in any rpg ever.
I'm currently running a Lancer game, two sessions in.
It's definitely not a toolbox kind of game where you can just play out any sort of idea, but once you come to terms what kind of game it offers you, start to appreciate how lean the rules are.
I stay away from discord and gay content and twist the lore a bit to my own liking.
It's definitely not end all be all game but it's decent for what it tries to do.
Please sell me on a mecha system with fun combat. I am trying to get my friends into mecha tabletop but they are really into combat. The narrative doesn't matter at all to them, they like to play it like a wargame and just throw dice. We don't even do voices. I only have 2 requirements.
>You must say why you think the combat is fun.
>Your reason the combat is fun must be about the minute-to-minute combat, not about how much variety of builds there are or anything in the category of customization wank
Good: It has awesome grappling rules that really make it feel like you are ripping out systems (talks about an aspect of combat)
Bad: You can make Mechazord. It has rules for combining mechs together. (Doesn't refer to combat)
Good: I really like systems that deal with cover hit location, and armor penetration well, and this system delivers. (Talks about an aspect of combat)
Bad: The mechas are more realistic in this one than in others. (Doesn't refer to combat)
Obvious and redundant answers welcome, always fine to reiterate good things. Yes, I will talk to my players after I get some ideas here.
At that point why not just look into Battletech, the mech wargame?
It's all about the combat, the mechs have different models but aren't customwank, they all have layers of armor to get through with damageable subsystems and structure underneath. There's different hit locations on each one and limbs can get blown off after the structure damage is ticked off.
There's melee rules for punches, kicks, and death from above attacks using jumping or jumpjets.
A lot of actions to include weapons fire builds heat which you have to manage or you stack maluses and eventual shutdown.
There's even an RPG book for it called A Time Of War you can make personal pilot characters with, then convert them into standard Battletech stats for mech combat if it's about having an actual character with progression vs an army list of mechwarriors with simpler progression.
Also it's not just mecha it can be full combined arms with tanks and planes and such.
>pic related, a mech sheet
Battletech was on my shortlist to check out and I did not know about A Time of War, so thanks anon, this will be useful. I am still going to hang out in the thread to see if anyone has other ideas for my reading list.
>why not just look into Battletech
I did.
It's outdated and clumsy, just like any "classic" wargame.
We even played Mechwarrior 3e (much, much better than Time of War despite being a decade older). I think it's called "Classic Mechwarrior" now.
This is probably only going to work if at least some of your friends are weebs, but I like the Adeptus Evangelion hack/addon/mod for the d100 Dark Heresy WH40k TTRPG.
It uses the basic combat from Dark Heresy, except scaled up to mecha-sized, which I think offers a decent amount of moment-to-moment decisionmaking for using certain combat bonuses that come with their own tradeoffs, so things don't fall into that "I move into range, I do the same attack" tedium, while not getting so complicated with its maneuvers and modifiers that turns drag on forever.
As a bonus, because all the old d100 WH40k TTRPGs are built on the same basic mechanical system, there's a lot of potential options for "you want that on your mecha? Cool, you get to have a mecha-sized version of that" across the set of systems. I had tons of fun creating enemies by putting together various pieces and loved the fact that in the few instances the players called bullshit, I could flip through the rulebook and say "that's a thing you can point buy into. You could be able to do exactly what I'm doing" and turn things into more of a "sweet, I know what I'm grabbing next levelup!" reaction than a "that's bullshit!" - always nice to be able to say if players start getting salty mid-combat.
I like the way it handles damage to the mecha (physical, and easily repairable post-combat) and to the pilots (usually psychological, and a lot harder to fix) separately, so you can really go to town on a player's mecha and, while the pilot might pick up some PTSD or a mental disorder, the player gets to come back next session.
The lethality/difficulty is easily adjustable as the DM by offering cover bonuses and suchlike, and because Dark Heresy is hilariously lethal by default, handing out +10s like candy feels fair, and enables making a lot more open rolls than some other systems I've run without a high risk of TPKing.
You can cut non-combat to a few rolls, if you want.
Okay, I'll give it a shot. I had a bad experience with Rogue Trader previously (not with this group) that turned me off from the Warham systems, but basically it turned into a lot of "I do the shoot again" every turn. The GM was all in on the narrative side and didn't care about combat at all. No grid or anything, full text chat. No terrain or cover or range. However, my impression improved after a good long campaign of UESRPG which I am told was based on Dark Heresy (perhaps a bit more forgiving since our experience felt tough but fair)
I will give a warning about AdEVA: if you're going to try to present mecha combat in a way that will satisfy the combat-happy players you've described, you're going to need to put in some significant prep to create encounters for them. You cannot throw a generic enemy (or enemies, but the system favors having one boss enemy with a bunch of gimmicks over having a swarm of mooks) on a relatively level piece of ground at the players and have it remain interesting.
You're going to need cover (whether that's destroyed buildings, mountains, shields the mecha brought with them, whatever), you're going to need environmental complications (lakes, lava, coasts, places that MUST be defended at all costs, etc.), and designing bosses for this game is kind of like designing a puzzle box half the time, where the players are going to have to figure out how to use their existing tools to frick this thing up. (Which, of course, requires keeping up with what tools your players actually have. I remember a session where I hadn't fully read a player's character sheet after their last levelup, and I had to rewrite the boss on the fly, because his newest bullshit trivialized its original gimmick. It was still fun, though.)
It's also highly recommended that you watch Neon Genesis Evangelion, and con as many of your players into watching it as possible, to get an idea what the system is trying to emulate. Maybe skim Shinji And Warhammer 40k, the fanfic that gave some demented fa/tg/uys the idea to do EVA as a Dark Heresy hack. But even if you dispense with all the drama between "mecha kill beeg theeng from sky!" episodes, I'd say it's perfectly possible to have a fun game of AdEVA that's basically just a boss rush, as long as you can pull together interesting scenarios.
Terrain with height, cover, structures isn't a problem. That's kind of our specialty. I will say that sometimes a trivialized boss is actually a fun story moment for the players. Also, then you can reveal
>Wait, that wasn't the commander in that mech?? That was just a lieutenant??
>Terrain with height, cover, structures isn't a problem. That's kind of our specialty.
Oh good!
Something I had fun with was using satellite maps of the city I lived in at the time (and some other places) as battlemaps. I was familiar with the local environment, so I was pretty sure how much cover some places would have, and it helped emphasize the actual scale of the damage that was being done.
>I will say that sometimes a trivialized boss is actually a fun story moment for the players.
That's true, but as you'll realize once you look at AdEVA, it's built around a series of boss encounters, often lasting 80% or more of the session they're in, so if someone smokes the boss in the first twenty minutes of the session, I've got hours of slack time to fill after that and no plan.
Oh, another thing: if you build enemies with the same mecha system the players do and throw multiple of them at the players, those encounters are going to be quite a lot more lethal than the "Angel" giant space monster bosses the game is designed for, so you might need to fudge a bit if that's what you plan on running. EVA-on-EVA combat can be fun, but it's not what the game is balanced around, so be prepared to have to adjust some stuff.
>he is always hesitate
ESL
Fricking shill kys at once and stop posting your discord boosted threads.
You already have a whole reddit and kickstarter "communities" to talk to so go have a nice day there.
In all fields.
Lancer has an extremely sharp division between its two modes of play. When you are in combat, when gameplay is crunchy and turn-by-turn, when you are in a mission, these are all tightly related. Being outside of the mech almost always means being out of that entire portion of the game. There are a few tenuous connections, the Jockey action, the Minotaur frame, the Black Thumb talents, but they're the exception rather than the rule.
That being said, you could talk to your GM, and he could create more situations where you are piloting but technically in downtime, so you could safely engage in activities with the hatch open.
Just to frick with the obvious shill, what are the best alternatives to Lancer that have a better community (not very difficult) and mechanics?
Some of the most fun i had with Lancer is outside of mechs, not to say the mech combat isn't fun, but the skill triggers and looser mechanics allow for pretty fun player experiences outside the mechs if you know what you're doing. Don't need every minute detail to be statted and codified.
Made me really appreciate my GM when i played another game and asked to visit a mining depot prior to our assault. Dude had no idea what he was doing or what was going on there, completely dead, unlived in world. Combat was fine and he put effort in there, but simple shit like, 'how expansive is the mine, if they have thousands of workers, presumably it's big and has multiple entry points, can we infiltrate?' or 'I want to meet the Ace Pilot protecting the place outside of his mech, is there a bar or garrison he'd be at?'
I dunno, i think 90% of modern GMs are just shit and don't actually put any thought into their games or can't think on their feet. I've looked through the lancer book and despite going hard on the space opera aesthetic visually and thematically, they really don't give much to the GMs to work with outside of Mechs.
You know what's weird? Lancer is directly based on Titanfall, which allows you to leave the mech. In some cases, it's actually way more beneficial for skilled players to leave the mech.
I honestly thought Lancer would encourage you to leave the mech, but I'm an autist and only like it for certain scenarios, anyway.
>Lancer is directly based on Titanfall
It's not. Abbyshill lied about that in order to ride TFall2's popularity.
>s-shill!! Shill!!
That... doesn't change the fact the Genghis is literally the Scorch, the Metalmark's a weird cross between Northstar and Ronin, and the three basic mechs are just the ones from TF1. The aesthetics are partially based off the IMC, too. That's just off the top of my head.
>tf2
>popular
COD sold better you fricking troony
Is Lancer a good game? I hear it's based on Shadows of the Demon Lord, but I haven't played that, either. Are the rules simple to learn and explain to new players? What's the default setting like? Is it easily adaptable to other settings?
>s Lancer a good game?
It's intensely mediocre but gets some hype for being somewhat functional in a genre starved for approachable games.
> I hear it's based on Shadows of the Demon Lord
Not quite, it's just the action economy for performing multiple actions per turn draws some strong parallels.
>Are the rules simple to learn and explain to new players?
Fans will say it's smooth and simple and easy to learn but my experience is quite different. Quite honestly the game is kind of a clunky, inelegant clusterfrick. The best way to describe it is that it's like someone took some super generic system, then stapled on 3 other vaguely "mech-ish" mechanics like heat and part damage in a simoultaneously haphazard and bland way. As a result it's a game that feels simple and convoluted at the same time, lacking the focus and flavor that an ideal take on this concept would have.
>What's the default setting like
Unironically the worst setting I've ever read. Imagine someone wanted to make an edgy grimdark cyberpunk setting, but ALSO wanted to be an ''''optimistic'''' star trek setting, and the solution to this obvious disparity was to bury the reader under 500 pages of technobabble and beurocratic future wank and buzzwords.
Now also imagine that this is loosely inspired by a genre with its roots in anime but the creators are sneering hipster californians who probably hate anime.
>Is it easily adaptable to other settings?
My group ran the game in a fantasy mecha in the vein of dunbine/galient/escaflowne, etc. it worked okay.
>in a genre starved for approachable games.
That's a good thing.
Also in case it's not clear from my review, I do NOT recommend the game. Here are some things I'd rather run for mecha than Lancer:
>Mekton
>Genesys (with mecha homebrew or the mecha splat)
>Tokyo Nova (just mandate that all players are of the Arashi splat)
>GURPS mecha
>Battle Century G (I skimmed over it awhile ago and thought it looked a little bland but at the same time it seems less clunky than Lancer for doing many of the same things)
>LITERALLY FRICKING ANYTHING PLAYING LANCER IS LIKE ONE STEP ABOVE REFLUFFING 5E WHILE PLAYING AS PREMADE HANDOUT SHEETS FROM THE GM AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA I'D RATHER REFLUFF AN ACTUAL FANTASY GAME BEFORE I PLAY THIS TRASH AGAIN
I'm just not really a fan.
Well yeah, but honestly personally I still feel like there isn't a game that's really gotten mecha "right". I kinda have a laundry list of several design points I'd like to see in my "ideal" mecha game, and I haven't quite seen anything that scratches the itch yet, or figured out how to make it myself. One day I'd like to see a mecha game that has as focused and flavorful mechanics oriented towards the genre as Nechronica does for its own niche.
I just find it funny because I know some 4E grognards like Lancer for being very 4E, so it being a step above reskinned 5e for mechs is just a funny description
I was actually thinking of 4e because I've heard that thrown around a few times as a comparison / ripoff point, but I'm not familiar with 4e myself so I held off.
"Reskinned 4e with Shadow of The Demon Lord quick/full action economy and the GM hands you a premade sheet and tells you its a robot with a sword instead of a guy with a sword and also we tacked on armor points and heat from Battletech" is a fairly apt description.
You could make so many good arguments and instead you keep going back to the one that is blatantly false.
It may not be 1:1 to any of those games but in spirit I find it hard to escape the feeling that the game is just a clusterfrick where - rather than building from the ground up with a "how do we make a game that FEELS mecha and is good to play" - the devs instead just took a generic template and stapled on a bunch of random ideas. Heat, Overwatch, and Armor Points feel particularly haphazard, but I don't think the action economy mechanics are particularly good either.
To follow up on this, a recurring phrase that comes up in regards to the game design and that my friends at one point all agreed on was
"inelegant"
Lancer has quite a few mechanics which are simple to understand on their own, but don't feel really tied together in an elegant or organic way, and as a result the full product feels very clunky and janky and generic at times.
For example, let's compare the way Overwatch works to the Reaction system in Infinity. It's clear that the devs wanted the game to feel tactical, reactive in a similar way. However Overwatch is essentially just an Attack of Opportunity range, and that's it. It's just something that happens when you're in a certain range of enemies, and that you have to process on its own. On the other hand in Infinity, the reaction system is tied into the basic action economy which is core to the entire system, and Infinity's action/reaction system when models are in Line of Sight of eachother feels much more elegant and intuitive despite the overall system being deeper and in some ways more complex.
This is why I say that Lancer's mechanics and gimmicks feel like homebrew added onto an existing game. They're tacked on to a basic system rather than naturally emerging from something that was built from the ground up with those ideas and design goals in mind.
Why are you responding to an obvious bumpgay post?
I didn'tEan to ask bad questions; I'm just new to /tg/ and trying to take it all in. I used to watch G Gundam on Toonami with my brother, so I thought a big robot game could be fun.
Thank.you for your input and advice! I'll look into those other games, and HGD6, which someone suggested earlier.
It didn't have the ring of a bumpgay post, like it had more effort into actually asking a question than bumpgay used to.
Besides I imagine he's been less of an issue lately since the 1 week autosage was implemented?
G-Gundam is based, you're welcome anon!
I don't care about who made the game but when I tried lancer it just felt like an inferior version of D&D 4e