Anyone can explain to me why WoW was "best game in existence"? Because every time i ask someone about WoW they either say that because of "good ol' days", or because there's no competition?
I tried to play WoW atleast two hours two times or three (in the time of MoP, Cata, Legion, can't exactly remember), and everytime i quit.
What WoW ACTUALLY did to be a good game that is worth playing for more than two years?
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>R*ddit spacing
>moronic zoomer homosexual kvetching
Yiikes
>he fell for the reddit spacing meme
lurk moar newbie
Reddit has no claim to PARAGRAPHS you absolute mongoloid
I'm esl Black person living in shithole, just curious how many mongoloid left in Ganker, there's nothing but hispanics and pajeets in Ganker in recent 5 years
A social experience that was novel at the time + the world still being somewhat mysterious before sweats and datamining were as prevalent.
this, plus the fact that Blizzard was the gold standard of vidya devs at the time. as someone who played vanilla, it really was like i was playing in warcraft 3
I don't see how difficult it is to scramble the data or put it on standalone computers.
the internet was a niche thing until the mid 2000s anon
It doesn't matter, the mindset is entirely different, you can't put the cat back in the bag
>but (thing that is trivial to do now) is trivial to do now, so how could it not be just as trivial 20 years ago? I can't imagine anything in the world being different from whatever my current perspective is
Peak NPC thought process.
They did that. But then people would get hired to purposely leak data. You cannot win, so Blizzard gave up.
You can't replicate gaming from 2010's and below nowadays.
Everything gets datamined within days or weeks, everything gets wiki pages, guides and detailed youtube videos.
There's no secret or real exploration.
>Everything gets datamined within days or weeks, everything gets wiki pages, guides and detailed youtube videos.
>There's no secret or real exploration.
Yes, and the same people who have been playing for years and mourn the olden days and the nostalgia that came with it will be the first ones to impose every and anyone that dares joining their casual guild to play the game following optimal spell rotations and consumable usage.
>You can't replicate gaming from 2010's and below nowadays.
You literally can.
You easily can find braindead casual guild that will wipe on same content for months. And all their logs are grey. This is why you want right?
Though it's kinda strange why pve MMOs have always anons crying about other people being garbage 24/7.
Spooky.
Hmm, I still don't think it's the same, but I respect your opinion.
The players you speak of used to be the majority, now they are a very fringe minority that simply refuses to watch Cuckbitch_TTV's epic 1h guide on each class.
It's very easy to find those kind of people in any MMO. This is why everyone is crying about shitters inevery thread. When I played XIV during ShB times I spent hours with 7 dudes who didn't know what is tank swap (I didn't even paly tank in my XIV life). They were peak casual old style cute clueless shitters. But ask yourself would you want to spent your weekends like this? Pretending to be a guy playing MMO for the first time? Mentally lobotomizing yourself in search for escapism because you're too good? Especially in new MMOs. You just know how to play.
>But ask yourself would you want to spent your weekends like this?
>Mentally lobotomizing yourself
I hope your self-awareness is high enough to tell you this is exactly what all MMO players are doing, when they choose to play modern MMOs. It's a solved, corpo-slob genre where your role is to be a paypig.
If you look from shitters POV it's not solved. They're experiencing a real joy. It's the state of mind. Purity of MMOhood. You can't take it back but you can enjoy yourself with other similar minded people. Like in old times. Though obviously games did change. But unironically playing new modern mmoslop on launch is the best time for nostalgia. Even if game is garbage.
People have already accepted the internet as a fact of reality
interacting with random people across the globe with the internet used to be a fun novelty in and of itself, wow was best when it was a giant fantasy chatroom where you could gank and torment noobs and try to flirt with bored housewives
all the fun of wow has been chiseled away to satiate raiders and autists who like arenas
If you want to know what wow was like in 2005, get a time machine. You cannot recreate it, the community has changed, humanity has changed significantly, nearly a billion people have died and been replaced since wow released
Raids are a product of wiki metagaming.
It was only WoW garbage that brought raid content into existence, before then MMOs actually had 20-30+ people fight bosses so needing to worry about other people playing didn't matter. Especially since scrubs got oneshot.
The dumbest post I've read in this entire thread. Everquest did everything WoW did but with more players. WoW even had 40 man raids
>The dumbest post I've read, I agree with what you said
Anon?
That was my point. Everquest had more players, WoW did have 40 man raids originally.
But until WoW instanced content wasn't the norm for MMOs, it's budget copycats copying WoW's rotation+raid formula to try seek success that warped the landscape.
Then people found it a hassle to get 30+ people to do something together so raid finders started being used, of course getting people to wait for a 30+ person queue is impossible and a mess of a system so the number drastically got cut down for convenience.
It's WoW's popularity and raidgays what caused the decline of MMORPGS being MMORPGS and just MORPGS
>Though it's kinda strange why pve MMOs have always anons crying about other people being garbage 24/7.
Because it's frustrating? Especially in a game as easy as WoW? Most every raid boss since vanilla has gone like
>don't stand in the poopy
>watch out for his aoe/cleave
>kill him before enrage timer
Yet shitters still shit it up. The only time raiding was hard was when 40mans were still a thing. And the majority of the difficulty stemmed from coordinating 39 other players.
You could just do what I do. Ignore all that shit unless/until you are truly stuck and nobody ingame is able to help. Then again, I loved playing solo in Vanilla WoW. Mained a pally and figuring out ways to solo content made me feel like an unstoppable force of justice.
>mfw solo'ing Araj the first time
>mfw solo'ing Araj the first time
how the frick did you do that and in what patch?
>Ret
>Sword n Board
>Seal/Judging w/ Wisdon & Light
>that one quest item that debuffs Araj
>Int or Stam scrolls
>Elixirs
>Turn Undead and Holy Wrath and Consecrate to deal with adds (suicide nuke run to clear the ones directly tied to Araj's aggro after clearing the individual ones nearby)
>Big mana pots
>Aura switching (Shadow Prot, Concentration, Devotion)
>Godly luck with crits/procs
I pretty much used my entire kit plus profession items I'd buy off the AH or guildies to solo stuff. Took tons of tries and each fight would last 5mins or more. The pally's kit in Vanilla was chock full of useful spells(that everyone thought was useless) for solo'ing tough content. Little brother(Horde) watched me do it too and all he had to say was
>Paladins are OP
>what patch
Can't remember. Had to have been between 1.6 and TBC pre-release since I distinctly remember HW having the bolts.
>I pretty much used my entire kit plus profession items I'd buy off the AH or guildies to solo stuff. Took tons of tries and each fight would last 5mins or more.
lol that's pure vanilla right there, beating an elite solo with determination and an assload of items
Just be yourself senpai.
every mmo before wow was dogshit
blizzard looked at mmos and said
>hmm, what if we DIDN'T actively waste everyone's time
and then it became a success and killed every other mmo and then the players from those dead shit mmos decided to work for blizzard and they said
>hmm you know this dogshit time wasting cancer that only poopsockers liked? (except they didn't actually they still complained) well what if we put that in wow?
and then they did and now wow is dead too
there
that's your mmo history, zoomer
>Every MMO wasted peoples time and was shit
Was Everquest really that bad?
It was great for it's time. Emphasis on 'for it's time.' I wouldn't exactly say it's aged well. It was a good time growing up though. The honest closest experience you'd have to that story wise would probably be 14, and only in the sense of story. WoW has it beat in PVP, which is probably the end game when you're tired of raiding. When there are no more monsters to kill, you end up killing each other.
Yes. Asherons Call was kino, though
The problem is that most MMOs back before WoW we're hardcore games where people could kill you and steal your shit, and a lot of them even lowered your character level, and another thing was the fact that 90% of the whole game was the players making up stories between them.
When wow came they got a whole story and a lot of pre planned content and then brought a better leveling experience and instances, you could literally play the game solo and enjoy your time, meanwhile the other games were hard if you played alone since classes were designed to only do one single thing by themselves.
Are we really going to ignore the everquest/wow connection with that poopsocking piece of shit tigore.
I know the Tigore story but I thought Everquest was mostly devs "winging it" considering the concept of how MMORPGS could be structured.
Is it not true that Poopsockers like Tigore emerged because the Everquest devs created a few super bosses that were half-tested to pose as a challenge?
Old MMORPGS where that, RPGs. Most where based heavily or even liscened/copy table top RPGs which are ment to be played with other people. While I'd argue other MMOs had way more customization it was a slog to play specially by yourself since again, those games where based off board games ment to play with other people. Classic WoW could pretty much be played single player and it turned out people just enjoy being part of something biggee rather than being forced to socialize for every tiny thing.
>one of the best MMOs
>bad
It's all LARP.
Literally CRPG but with online and you control one character.
Also don't believe all this muh group plays shit. All others MMOs before were solo friendly. EQ started (as I remember) group only shit.
i don't remember it well but dark age of camelot was kino and had an epic rvr system that controlled the best pve farming area
iirc
>3 factions or realms and huge area of objectives
>strongest faction took most of the objectives
>pve cave access unlocked for faction 1
>fricked off and went to farm in the cave
>2nd/3rd faction took over
>went into cave
>epic pvp occurred and cleaned out faction 1 from the cave
>repeat
blizzard tried to copy this with wintergrasp i think but it was moronic and changed how it worked because some factions on certain servers were unable to enter the raid instance lel
>and then they did
That's because the original poopsocker, Tigole, got hired by Blizzard somehow.
>what if we DIDN'T actively waste everyone's time
homie you can not be serious.
From the perspective of 2004, yes WoW very much respected your time and is a big BIG reason why it was so successful, Warcraft 1-3's popularity just got WoW it's initial audience before the rest came in.
Not losing gear or xp/lvls upon death. The insane amount of quests -again, from the perspective of 2004-
It was amazing.
In some ways vanilla respects your time more than modern WoW does.
>no dailies
>no weeklies
>only lockout is weekly honor and raid reset
>no timegated reputation
>no mission table
etc etc
If I want to take a weekend and grind furbolgs until my eyes bleed for Timbermaw Hold then I can do that in vanilla and the only thing preventing it is competing for kills with other players. Vanilla vs modern WoW gives me that pre-cell phone feel, where time moved slower somehow and nobody expected you to be on call 24/7 and always online. You could level and grind rep at your own pace because the world was always there and it was alive instead of having a handfull of <level 10 players and the rest AFKing at max level in Stormwind.
>what is starwars galaxies
>actively waste everyone's time
wow had this built right into it from the beginning
>deaths removed xp
>took ages to level
>not enough quests
>had to farm gold all the time
>pvp rewards were dogshit and underwhelming compared to pve
>pots/repairing expensive
>bandages expensive
>mounts expensive
>profession leveling was shit
>hunter/druid/warlock loot had an increased drop chance from raid bosses over every other class
i swear to god, i had 5 pieces from my first mc run and the leaf item after i rerolled from rogue in vanilla
the entire game was time and money sinks all over the place. but..it began to cater to casuals too much and it thats when it got worse
>deaths removed xp
Literally not the case, it was in fact a novel concept for the genre at the time that deaths were not a big deal and were more an inconvenience than anything.
>took ages to level
It was fairly quick compared to its contemporaries.
>Not enough quests
It had a fricking ton compared to other games which expected you to just grind mobs for levels.
You have to remember that at the time WoW was considered a very, very casual MMO. That everything about it you consider to be timewasting bullshit was nothing compared to what else was out there.
zoomer, in vanilla, you lost xp when you died but they removed it sometime
and no there were not enough quests. you had to grind out the last few levels
Not that guy, but death XP loss was never a thing in release WoW. It was there for alpha, but was removed before they started their first closed beta. So unless you played the alpha(extremely unlikely), you didn't experience XP loss in WoW.
>in vanilla, you lost xp when you died but they removed it sometime
such confidence in being wrong and moronic
Anon they removed that from Vanilla in the third closed beta patch.
You didn't play in 2004/2005, you weren't even alive, you're just a zoomer reading old patch notes.
expensive
im too lazy to reply to everyone but he is right in regards to wow was at its release the most casual mmorpg. Now that wasnt a huge deal given mmorpgs were unpaid sweatshop tier back then but it was still sufficient reason to prefer wow over alternatives.
That said it was not the sole reason. EQ2 released just months before wow and it had a simple issue: frequent long loading screens and worse combat system. Wow wasn't just more casual it also was less of a pain in the ass in general.
And the best thing they ever did was copy bethesda and allow UI modding. WoW's development was fundamentally led by UI mods.
As for why wow is shit now:
They got bought in wotlk by kotick and he went on public record how he changed the company from do whats fun to minmax charts. So now they are chasing metrics like playtime which gives rise to dailies and other busywork crap nobody needs aside from the number autists. The ammount of bullshit they want from you is on a chinese gacha level which is plain ridicilous with a paid subscription mmo that has a cashshop on top. Secondary by now you have dozen of more casual mmos released so wow lost its most casual benefit.
tldr: they lost the advantages while going downhill chasing money. The only credit you have to give is they did in fact increase profit.
Turns out milking a bunch of morons made them more money than keeping a huge playerbase as profits steadily grew.
>do what's fun
so then why did they make TBC a raidlog expansion that invalidated everyone's effort and also abandoned the entire game world? that was before kotick so...
I'm not completely agree but it's still a based comment
It was back when Blizzard wasn't pure corruption.
But also noone knew shit about wow originally, so it was a huge experience and wonder to play when everyone was clueless.
Discord didn't exist either which was a huge+
Sad you will never experience early multiplayer gaming lad.
I would explain but you're a zoomzoom with reddit spacing so you need to frick off and go back
>appealing artstyle that was easy on the eyes
>amazing OST
>very simple to get into, extremely streamlined compared to other MMOs of the time ala Anarchy Online
>everyone and their mother was familiar with the setting since WC3 / TFT was huge
i miss the old wow forums. i shitposted so hard there, was probably my first ban in any online community
people don't even mention the decade of lead up to getting to immerse yourself in a world that had been built since Warcraft 1, Vanilla was fricking magical but there were many people that wanted Warcraft 4, they will never understand the culture and the story that had preceded it, all wow expansions are dogshit and should have never been made
>Vanilla was fricking magical
>mfw staring at all the box art during install, absorbing everything in, fantasizing about what kind of grand adventures my friends were about to have
No other MMO instilled that sense of wonder in me except STAR WARS Galaxies
>mfw first time in Mos Eisley a giant battle erupted between the Empire and Rebels
>appealing artstyle that was easy on the eyes
and up until Wrath it ran on a toaster
i know because my friend had a garbage computer and Wrath was the turning point where he could barely move from one end of a city to the other without the game crashing or his computer commiting sudoku and he had no choice but to upgrade
It was your ticket to sex with suicidegirls
Warcraft 3 got people wanting for more and the limited information flow at the time meant you had to go out there yourself to explore instead of looking it up a guide. It went down to shit if all you have as a point of reference is anything past Cataclysm.
Jesus fricking christ, unironically posting Josh
internet was new for many and moving around a 3D character with people around the country/world even more so
I think thinking too hard about WoW is silly. My enjoyment of the game was largely dependent on the people I played with. You can argue the game has ways to encourage or foster these social aspects, at the end of the day it’s on you to make connections.
With that said, I had the most fun in these times:
1. Bfa
2. Legion
3. Vanilla
4. WoD
5. SL
6. wotlk
7. MoP
8. BC
Didn’t play Cata or Dragonshit
>had most fun in BfA
actual NPC
Yes, I played with a great group of people, we were doing lots of stuff. Dungeons, raids, pvp, visions, even the fricking secret shit like hivemind. It was awesome.
Like I said, it’s an mmo. You’re supposed to play with others and with the right group of friends everything is a blast. Was it the objectively best time to play? Almost certainly not. I think going by objective metrics, the best expansion is possibly MoP. But that’s also an expansion I only played for like 2 months because I didn’t have anyone to play with.
>1. Bfa
You're gay.
He's right for putting BFA and Legion together
BFA is most of the fixes people asked for in Legion.
yeah and they added the gay moronic GCD shit
Anyone who PvPed against a frost DK in Legion would also have wanted that
But crying about 1 extra global every few minutes versus couldn't play your class without rng legendary? Come on
>Anyone who PvPed
so 0.01% of the playerbase
the GCD change fricked the gameplay and flow of combat and was universally hated which is why they changed it in shadowlands
One extra global didn't frick anything
Half the spells people were crying about had been on global before. Even kicks were on global way in the past
BFA fricked up the story hard
>massive Illidan retcons
>make him the child of destiny
>Except he's just so cool he can ignore destiny and his own motivations I AM MY SCARS
>entire Suramar plot hinged on Elisande, who can see future timelines, not seeing one where we win against the Legion except we do and she just had a blind spot
Legions writing was abysmally bad
You had to be there + you can't go back + seethe and cope.
It was better than Everquest, accessible to get into, had a great grind, zero monetization at the start outside of the monthly fee so there was no conflicting game design schemes to sell you gold or time savers or withhold gear or put cosmetics behind a paywall. I still remember just chilling during Christmas break grinding out levels with Burning Crusade. WoW today is a empty shell of what it once was because Blizzard has turned into a gambling / exploitation company.
do you believe raid lockouts were a game design scheme for making more money or something that was needed?
NTA but I think they were introduced to stop autists from optimising (read: grinding) the fun out of their own game
That's more mommy Blizzard telling you how to play their game and they do it because their current game design is so shallow that they can't have you play it too much before you notice the shallow façade. We're far from the days where they made a game so good that people would grind forever because that was fun. Now they need to lock you out.
>no monetization!
>except the monthly sub that was required
moronic goyim
you know exactly what he meant about monetization, curb your autism
stupid genetic defect
>merely pretending
Yes monetization is how they keep the game profitable in a live service game
A $15 sub is the same as a $15 battle pass a month or $15 "quality of life" boost a month, giving a sub fee a pass makes 0 sense
Whats wrong with your brain you LITERAL moron
Raid lockouts have been a thing since day 1. You could not grind freely in vanilla or any point in WoW
Who cares what a Blizzdrone thinks.
Must suck getting talked circles around by me then, huh?
Learn your place
I'm not going to argue with some homosexual about Blizzard's mommy game design nor someone who thinks a monthly fee is the same as game with a monthly fee, a battle pass, and microtransactions or that that isn't a conflict of interest. People like you are the reason why WoW sucks, you're the soulless zombies still clocking hours and getting mad when someone doesn't run the dungeon you've done 10,000 times hasn't done it before. That's why modern WoW sucks.
>I'm not going to argue
Correction: You cant argue. Both because I'm objectively right and because youre an NPC not capable of independent thought
>Blizzard's mommy game design
Repeating this cope wont change that lockouts have always existed and you've already been debunked
Does your brain just get fried when not around other NPCs?
>getting mad when someone doesn't run the dungeon you've done 10,000 times hasn't done it before. That's why modern WoW sucks.
so youre just a shitter mad the game got harder, as always
You obviously are too emotionally invested in World of Warcraft and no discussion with you will be productive. You are the player base that makes WoW awful and you're the one actively contributing to its demise, you gatekeep new players from the game forcing Blizzard to ratchet up the microsactions to extract more from the dwindling existing player base.
Im the only one being objective, vanilla was terrible in literally every regard and theres empirical evidence in bulk thanks to classic to prove that
Youre crying because you got bullied out of groups for being bad at the game
>you gatekeep new players
The game is beyond friendly to new players and there are tons of top raiders/m+ players that are relatively new. The issue is YOU are just terrible at video games and project that onto other newbies
>no monetization except for the monthly fee
Try reading comprehension.
Also understand there's a difference between an amusement park season pass and an amusement park that charges you to skip the line.
Simply, it's because you're a zoomer who missed the point when the internet was actually good.
WoW tokens killed the game.
You have to look back to where MMOs stood at their peak.
Part of the appeal to videogames isn't just the gameplay aspects that appeal to humanity's innate need to problem solve or commit acts of violence and domination, but the escapism aspect.
MMOs were a major step towards that fantasy of being isekaid to a fantasy world. They offered a scenario where thousands of players intereacted on a server, with its own functional economies and other distinct experiences only applicable in a sort of open world sandbox.
At the time, this yearning coupled with a great community of people willing to engage with each other made MMOS a very distinct, addicting experience. But MMOS from a gameplay standpoint where really winging it.
The tech wasn't there to provide "action combat" or other aspects refined in other games of that era, everything had to be designed around shit latency and as a result gameplay pretty much suffered.
While in the past the mmo experience completely trumped gameplay limitations, this is no longer the case. The MMO community devolved as MMOs shifted to poopsocker standards for high end game play that simply isn't fun and people started to prefer a more "single player but I can talk to friends" approach to the game.
Other aspects like f2p monetization systems and just a general decline of social standards pretty much killed MMOs. WoW is pretty garbage now, even WoW Classic, it was carried by a community that no longer exists.
glad to see Ganker ignored the post that actually explains exactly why wow was so impactful in the mid to late 2000s. Here's your (You)
That's correct. We can never recreate the experience of a bunch of optimistic and bright eyed people wanting to enjoy a virtual world. WoWgays are the cancer that killed their own game even though every few will actually admit it.
good post
god I miss the 2000s
That world will never be ours again.
>The MMO community devolved as MMOs shifted to poopsocker standards for high end game play that simply isn't fun and people started to prefer a more "single player but I can talk to friends" approach to the game.
I really do miss the time when the people on the internet were the social rejects. There was a sense of comradery in all things geeky because those things weren't popular. Now it seems the majority of people on here grew up on the internet and haven't socialized IRL (and be rejected) and are unable to hold a conversation. Merely talking to someone over text gives them crippling anxiety.
Couple that with a time before micro-transactions, Blizzard at it's prime, and peak escapism then you get an idea of why that time was so magical. I miss it dearly.
Blizzard was always shit, anything good they have ever made was worked on by Blizzard North.
Yes, Zoom-zoom. We're all impressed by your youtuber parroting and arguing semantics.
Loser got butthurt he didnt know about Blizzard north lol.
yeah but did you know that you're a gay, lmfao
Blackthorne
Warcraft
Warcraft 2
Warcraft 2: Beyond the Dark Portal
The Lost Vikings 2
Starcraft
Starcraft: Insurrection
Starcraft: Brood War
Warcraft 3
Warcraft 3: The Frozen Throne
All of these were made by Blizzard, and they were all great games. Blizzard North literally only made D1+D2. Stop being a contrarian.
those games were all dogshit lmao. people only liked them because they were babies first video game as a kid
See the last sentence in my post.
>Anyone can explain to me why WoW was "best game in existence"?
It wasn't the best game in existence. There were MMOs such as EVE Online and Lineage II which were better than WoW in terms of drama, politics and social activity. People have killed each other IRL over Lineage II loot. WoW was not even that accessible because it required a subscription which many people could not afford.
But there is a thing that modern zoomers don't have which is called "imagination". Real life was really fricking dull, and in video games you could be an adventurer in a fantasy world.
The only thing that WoW has over other MMOs is raiding content. This is the only reason why I play today. It's a really fricking dull game otherwise, people just didn't know better back then, and other MMOs were "too hard/too harsh".
>People have killed each other IRL over Lineage II loot
holy shit, story?
can i meet chubby white girls in their late 20s on this game
wow is still the best mmo despite all the competition over the years no matter what the weebs say.
all it takes is one good expansion for ppl to be singing its praises again.
>all it takes is one good expansion
Every single WoW shill keeps singing Dragonflight's praise, yet the retail is deader than it ever was. Why is that?
gay 0 hype cinematic, sure the fundamentals are decent in dragonflight but the theme is just fricking boring.
OR is it because people are bored to fricking tears with WoW and how stagnated it became? Not to mention monetization up the arse. I get "the itch" from time to time, but then I remember about WoW tokens and I do a 360 degree turn and walk away.
> stagnate
Black person ppl still play older versions of the game even now. the issue is purely one of aesthetics or Sovl
>ppl still play older versions of the game
the handful of people playing classic are literal keyboard turners
they play classic because anything more than 1 button is too much for them. Being dumbed down for literal subhumans doesnt make the game good
Classic is harder than retail
>proactive healing
>seal twisting/totem swapping
>trinket swap/prepull rituals
>trap weaving movement routine
>weird DI/taunt/BoP/shadowmeld interactions
>some BiS items drop from normal dungeons and last until the very last boss of the expansion
in Retail you click several buttons but once you learn the rotation, everything is streamlined.
… you think retail doesn’t have proactive healing, prepull rituals, dps movement, weird interactions or absurdly powerful dungeon drops? Also you can’t list seal twisting and totem swapping as examples of challenging mechanics while dismissing retail rotations.
Not to mention the elephant in the room that retail actually has content even requiring any sort of advanced mastery.
I don't know about retail I played Cata and it didn't have any of that. Yes, raids were much harder, but only because there are more raid mechanics and small error means wipe.
Not to be mean but that just sounds like you were clueless because those things undoubtedly existed (except maybe the dungeon drops, I don’t have the loottables of fricking cata in mind but I’d be surprised if Blizzard ever managed ti balance trinkets to the point where some random drop isn’t absurdly strong).
What do you mean? I just buy tokens, sell them for gold and buy boost with gold. As Blizzard intended.
this, i love laughing at poorcucks progging raids, you literally just need to find 1 guild that's decent, spend $200 and you get carried through mythic raids and get the gear for free. why the frick would i prog when i can literally just pay a bit to have my legion of slaves do it for me.
>spend $200 to not play the game
What have we become?
Look I’m not going to defend the wow token or cash shop, shits terrible even if it did allow me to play the game for free since wod
It's a bunch of drained morons huffing copium hoping their game will be as it once was, but Blizzard has long forgotten how to make a good game. It's all ESG diversity hires now, no more straight white autistic men who play games for fun and think designing games is fun too. It's over, it's just a bunch of women and woman-brained low T men figuring out ways to siphon a little bit more than $15/mo from the average Blizzdrone. Right now, their goal isn't for you to have fun, their goal is to make the game just good enough you want more but are never satisfied.
>It's all ESG diversity hires now, no more straight white autistic men who play games for fun and think designing games is fun too
Okay, why dont we compare the Dragonflight raids to Molten Core?
Oh wow look molten core fricking sucks, amazing. Is this what "gamers" produce? Utter worthless dogshit?
dont even waste your time arguing with these ppl, most of them havent even played the game since cata and are bitter and jaded
>don't even argue with the people who stopped playing the game, that way the doom spiral can continue
BRILLIANT IDEA! Funny given you're here whining about people not playing the game while also not playing the game.
literally playing right now, not whining about ppl playing the game? no idea where u got that from.
thank you for proving my point about being bitter and jaded tho, im sure 10 yrs from now you will still be saying how " dead " wow is
Wow anon, you're the part active population that killed the game everyone else. I bet you've personally made people quit the game.
Is that why WoW classic is many times more popular than retail? Really makes you think.
Older raids were way more focused on group 40 people doing their roles, rather than having to do stupid dances or musical chairs.
The role of a dps being...mindlessly slam 1 button for 3 minutes straight before the pinata falls over?
Older raids didnt demand tanks to be excellent at mitigating damage or intelligent healers, it was just flat out dumbed down
MC's entire design philsophy was big damage, horrible debuffs in need of removal and a lot of demand in both rotation and gear checking.
That's why Barron Geddon for example fricked people over so hard despite having what would become the most bare basic "Do something different mechanic". Litterally just run away from a group and explode somewhere else. This fricked people up, because everyone had to be so focused doing dps, tanking and healing to care about it.
Later raids were way less brutal on gear checks or rotation checks which allowed them to become the silly dances they would become. This was mainly because guide reading and poopsockers demanding people install raid mods meant having to do as much convoluted "tests" as possible to pose a challenge.
MC got deleted by level 56s in under a week in classic
that raid and that game was always piss easy compared to retail. classic is for literal 50 year old cripples
>because everyone had to be so focused doing dps, tanking and healing
shut the FRICK UP moron. Everything in classic was an utter joke numbers wise
>poopsocker homosexual hyperfixated on raids
MMOS = either raiding or troony ERP. Pick your poison
kys pve cattle, you are moronic
Playing pvp in mmos is the dumbest shit
Play an actual Action game
it's not about the pvp itself, but the social aspect of it
you sit there in capital city and run instances through menus
And you sit there in capital city and run arenas through menus
>Inb4 open pvp meme
yes, i don't play r*tail
>Putting gamers in quotation marks.
Way to out yourself.
wow dev team was mostly chinks and israelites moron
the game is just fubar. Every small misstep they have made snowballed over the years into the dumpster fire that is retail. There can never be a good expansion because that would require cardinal changes and they cannot make these changes because 1) it requires effort and the troony wow dev team cannot handle it 2) risk of alienating what little of autistic paypig fanbase they left
>Every single WoW shill keeps singing Dragonflight's praise
yea no kidding moron, that's why they're called shills
>wow is still the best mmo despite all the competition over the years
Which is incredibly telling of the MMO scene itself - that despite the bastardization and butchering of a once great game for quick cash, that game is somehow still up there.
That said,
>all it takes is one good expansion for ppl to be singing its praises again.
this is completely delusional. WoW was irrevocably changed through wrath and cata on a fundamental level. It doesn't matter how good any expansion is when it's a completely different game altogether from when it was GOAT - and even if this was not the case, nu-blizz/activision is not interested in making a good game, just something that convinces you to give them money.
>wow is still the best mmo
no
Zoomers will never understand. This shit in the early 2000s was godlike and an experience you could not get elsewhere.
>inb4 some everquest/ff troony
Solid world/level design, astonishing art style, balanced PvP gameplay, balanced PvE gameplay, novel (at the time) skill system; an MMO finally simple and easy enough for more people to get into.
So quality and accessibility I guess.
>balanced PvP gameplay, balanced PvE gameplay
lol
lmfao
I only played it to gank people and make ytmnd memes from it.
The modern MMO player is the most antisocial loser burnout on the planet and even if you revive the old game you can't bring back the old playerbase that made the genre special
Modern multiplayer is general is shit. People are hairtrigger upset now in every game, everyone plays like it's their job, no one plays for fun. And you've now got to the point that the only people who play are 10,000 hour autistic angry incels who gatekeep the game, I don't even think a true newbie could play WoW without being flamed like it was League of Legends because they weren't being a perfect healer on their first dungeon.
My biggest issue is this. Back then there wasn't easily available break downs that allowed for finally tuned metas where you were expected to pick these options, either for PVP or PVE.
When "playing the game" entails "reading a guide" it feels like it sucks the souls out of everything.
It's not even that though, you can't even be new at a game anymore without people shitting on you. It's not just "meta" although you're fricked if you played WoW without understand the dynamics of tank, DPS, healer, but even then, right now if you're new, say even doing DPS, if you're bottom damage, you will get vote kicked. I've even been vote kicked for going too fast as a tank in a low level dungeon before even though the group was never at risk of dying.
Well yeah also that, I was speaking broader than just MMOs. In MMOs that is a specific issue. When game becomes more like a business where your guild is your company and it's all about keeping your job.
I remember not getting into PUGs during Wotlk because the HPS mods did not account for absorption damage and I was a disc priest.
Even as a druid healer in cata I was under a lot of pressure from my guild to reach a good HPS.
>"hey guys I'm new to the game!"
>"this cool guild that does all bosses on the first try is recruiting"
>"rejected? I need years of experience? wtf"
>"let's join a noob guild"
>"_anon your dps is fricking shit, can you drink potions and learn rotation? maintain this DoT, then press this skill and only then cast your main skill, also snapshot your totem - it's not hard you need a few hours of practice"
>"NOOOO I DON'T WANT TO DO THAT! I WANT TO BE SHIT AT THE GAME"
You did this to yourself
The fact you think this is some kind of own to me just demonstrates how fricking far gone the gatekeepers are. You do realize this wasn't normal 15 years ago right?
>I TOLD YOU HOW TO PLAY THE GAME PERFECTLY 5 MINUTES AGO AND BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT PLAYING PERFECTLY NOW YOU ARE KICKED
Yes, turns out playing a game for 15 years raises the average skill (slowly but surely).
Sorry you can’t rewind the clock. That’s life.
>I played the game 15 years and I have zero tolerance for someone who is playing the game for their first day, if they didn't want me to flame them they should've have joined my group via the dungeon finder
That’s not what anyone is saying. Nobody should be a dick to new players. But yes, you will get pointers and linked to resources to improve more than 15 years ago because players are better, the game is harder and people generally are not interested in carrying someone they don’t know for free.
It was normal in some guilds. It wasn't normal in general because mistakes were harder to control. Now we have warcraftlogs where it shows everything, even if you did a small pause as a healer to attack the boss, and your tank died because of that. And of course it shows if your priest snapshotted his dots or didn't and every other small mistakes.
Logs existed back then yes, but not every raid leader knew every class or every mechanic. And no, it's not bad to be new, it's bad to not to do certain things on purpose.
There was a player nicknamed dvp, it's a famous story. And there were some other cases too, I've read about some guy who ninja'd an item, then another dude killed him with an axe.
My point is the tolerance for mistakes is almost non-existent now. To the point that if you're new, no, there is no tolerance for failure. And that's why WoW is dying, it's just recycling veterans until even the veterans who took 2 years off are now considered too unskilled for the game.
I started raiding seriously in WoD, got some double digit world rankings in legion and BfA. I was pretty bad at every role when I started. You just need to be open about what you don’t know and show a willingness to learn and people will help you.
Most of the time.
Yeah I've seen a video about that, it was called something like "if you're new it's too hard to get into modern WoW". But there seems to be no easy solution. If you accomodate the game to newbies, veterans will quit.
I've played wow when it launched and it's too hard to get into modern wow, because it's been beaten, and it's gay now
It's a symptom of a dying game that has to force veterans to play with newbies to hide the fact the game is dead.
>But there seems to be no easy solution.
make content for noobs and make content for vets. it cannot be that hard
I don't understand this META b***hing. You always have threads about META b***hing in any games yet look at AC6 and Ganker threads
>everyone and their mothers use META builds
>every second screencap is META build
>anon posting "it's game's fault I did noffin wrong EZ game" mental gymnastics
it most likely when you played your favorite MMO X you was too young and stupid to use proper builds and clearing content.
he didnt reply to you because you are right
>Everyone and their mother uses meta builds, why are they b***hing
It's the cave-in mentality. A game can be liked for a multitude of reasons, if the customization is shit but the rest of the game is compelling, a person may have a harder time just dropping it out of spite for its dogshit meta. So they'll play the meta build despite having less fun than the homosexual who doesn't care.
Keep in mind, most people are moronic, shamelessly uncreative or care way more about the satisfaction of winning, ergo plenty of people don't care. Basically, people who don't give a frick about games with playstyle control get more of a kick out them than those that do.
Ganker hates the META of a game but their hatred of the meta build might not outweigh their desire to play the game.
It's a lot like how TCG players do the "pet deck" cope. They have the decks they like and favor but they also throw money at playing meta decks every new pack so they can still compete at locales or pull out "the real deal" when their pet deck starts losing. It's how they cope that the 80% of a TCG at any moment is dysfunctional and they're always chasing the high of the next broken dogshit just because they can't stand the homosexuals acting like a god king because he blew 250 on the current championship deck.
I forgot the thread was still up.
>I don't even think a true newbie could play WoW without being flamed like it was League of Legends because they weren't being a perfect healer on their first dungeon.
It's funny because I know it's true, but simultaneously having played a lot of banilla/boring crusade servers in the last handful of years I've noticed this only really being a thing on servers with RDF (meaning wrath and beyond). In 'old wow', all this theoretical healer would have to do is say that he's new so let's chill a bit, and most people would be cool or at least put up with it. I've always had the feeling that pre-wrath wow was far more welcoming to newbies because there was a much larger emphasis on cooperation outside of just MUH ENDGAME.
I think it goes to efficiency, the problem is new players are slow, which means if you're power leveling an alt they're making you less efficient. In the early days because there was a constant flow of new blood it wasn't really a big problem because you'd be the one pro amongst 3-4 newbies, so you're the leader and helper. Now it's 3-4 pros with one newbie so there's a lot more gatekeeping, flaming, etc. Plus I just don't think general game culture was power leveling all the time, I think there was generally a lot more dicking around, I also remember it just being normal to have a couple slow dungeon runs. But now if you're not flying through the dungeon and have it memorized you're kicked frequently especially on any dungeons with a skip
>I think it goes to efficiency, the problem is new players are slow, which means if you're power leveling an alt they're making you less efficient.
Yeah it probably has a lot to do with there being no RDF + heirlooms + exp boosts rooted in an "endgame-is-all-that-matters" mentality in old-wow. Leveling took the time that it took so there was actually time for new players to be new and learn. It's not uncommon for players in vanilla/tbc to offer help if they see others struggling, whereas in wotlk/cata struggling is viewed as slacking and a hindrance. I can't imagine things being much better in the current game.
I've never played classic by the way, so what I say isn't based on that. No idea what things were like there.
It was basically the first mainstream social media on the internet
>pick the worst time to join
>claim not to understand why everyone else who started at the beginning had more fun
kek
>All these people shitting on WoW saying it was only good because of timing
Vanilla WoW was great even in 2019. The game is just better than other MMOs, it doesn't matter when you play it. Frick hardcore, just give us new vanilla servers and watch people come back.
Nah shit sucks
I quit around like 45 after getting my mount and realising I pretty much have all my major skills and this boring shit I’m currently doing is all there is, except later without the dopamine of level ups.
And in case you’re wondering I actually played vanilla as it was new so even the nostalgia dient last.
Almost all my good memories from wow came before cata. The later you start the worse the game is for new players.
>What WoW ACTUALLY did to be a good game that is worth playing for more than two years?
WoW was the first 3D MMORPG that didn't feel like complete ass to play. Hardly any invisible lines, you could jump, it felt good to press buttons and so on. This might not seem like a big thing to you, but at the time it was huge. I remember playing and liking games such as Star Wars Galaxies and Lineage 2, but lets be honest, those games were garbage in comparison to WoW (of 2004). These days WoW is a terrible game, both its retail and classic form.
You have to imagine it being 2005-2008
WoW was the first foray for many people into online multiplayer in a fantasy world.
Another aspect was that instead of leaning into a pseudo realistic art style like most MMOs at the time, it had this timeless cartoony look which still holds up infinitely better today compared to runescape or everquest.
It's not even that, WoW was the first foray of people into gaming in general. It was not uncommon for WoW to be a couple's first video game together. WoW was also one of the first games to actually have mainstream, primetime television commercials with celebrities.
>What WoW ACTUALLY did to be a good game that is worth playing for more than two years?
It was a casualised easily accessible mainstream MMO that allowed women and children to play.
It was babies first MMO that was in the right place at the right time.
it dumbed the genre down to the point where morons ITT could play it, along with grandmas, women, and people who have never played a video game before.
My furry wife plays it(i have kids with her irl btw) with me and multiplayer wise there's literally fricking nothing else to play, single player sure but absolutely nothing good newer multiplayerwise has come out for a long time, aside from old games much like WoW. Dragonflight is by no means a 'amazing' expansion, it's 'okay' and 'playble' is what it is compared to the last two, and that's why people really play it. I hope this solves the enigma of WoW players in 2023. I didn't play WoD/Legion back then because bangers like Battlefield 4, 1 were dropping, now there's nothing.
that's sweet man, I'm kind of in a similar situation (wife, no kids, yet) and WoW is the only game we enjoy playing together. DF is fine, it's a fine expansion and compared to SL and BFA I'll take that. Wish you two the best, you're both cute.
You're a lucky son of a b***h and I envy you.
what are those boots? I'm using judgement on my scarlet crusader set
It was only good at its peak and it was a moment in time that's never coming back. It was the first MMO that let you live another life without being forced to team up all the time. The innocence of it all made it great, even the elitlests "meta" was still rough around the edges. Just getting a blue item filled you with joy, even if the stats were moronic. Forum drama was lovely too, pre-centralized internet plus no LFG made the server feel like a community. It's hard to explain, you had to be there.
posts like this are so pathetic from WoW players because you can tell they were the exact type of people to bully the people they mourn the loss of now and only played WoW because it was trendy. Yes, you were a moron back then, yes WoW was the first MMO to have a population of basically exclusively morons, and yes WoW being the solo MMO for geriatric old people with 1 brain cell killed the genre. Literally nearly every MMO before, and a large chunk of them after, were deeper, more engaging, with more fleshed out social features and more unique mechanics but they filter out moronic WoW players and that playerbase is just too huge to ignore.
t. WoW raider until WoTLK
this game ruined an entire generation of men, if you werent there you will never know what it was like and nobody can really explain
When it was new most people had no idea what the frick they were doing and were chatty. That doesn't mean there weren't people that were moronic or annoying, but generally it felt like a MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE RPG. As the game got older, addons became more common and the fanbase became more knowledgable people communicated with each other less and didn't really care about the social elements. This made it a shit RPG you can sort of play with friends (so long as one of you doesn't play it too much otherwise you'll be a higher level) instead of something relatively unique.
WoWgays know they'll never ever go home and as the genre is basically dead it's hard to find an equivalent experience. I keep getting recommended FF14 but the endless cutscenes, loading screens and the same SHIT combat system combined with a gay fanbase make me not give a frick about the game.
games will never be novel again because you can find everything online within seconds
>installs Zygor
>follow the arrow until lvl 60
oh my gosh such an epic adventure!
it isn't though
Remember guilds that did interviews for recruitment? People still laugh at those losers to this day.
Why wouldn’t you have a chat with a complete stranger before you decide to hang out in voice together for 12+ hours a week? I’m not defending job Interview tier autism, but for all but the most casual guilds you probably want to check if the new guy is a complete butthole.
... Or you realize it's a video game, you are not a CEO and not everyone wants to be your voice chat ERP friend, so you let them in, show them the rules and wish them fun and let them know if they are becoming a problem.
Again, perfectly fine with a casual guild. Not so much if you want to get shit done (which requires voice).
No MMORPG requires voice, it's a genre designed to be easily cleared by every single person willing to pay.
If you don’t do anything remotely challenging maybe.
Not a single MMORPG with challenge exists because MMORPGs are by definition designed for mass appeal.
Are you trying to be obtuse? Do you think every single part of the game is designed for the same type of player?
Good players don't play MMORPGs because they realize they are mindless hamster wheels with low skill ceilings.
What you are referring to is not challenge, but devotion. Hardcore MMORPG players are players who "get things done" faster than casuals simply because they play these easy mode games so much they are better than casuals at them. But that doesn't mean the content is challenging, it's baby mass appeal genre through and through. Content is designed for different player types, but all the content is easy compared to real games.
>Good players don't play MMORPGs because they realize they are mindless hamster wheels with low skill ceilings.
Tell that to games like Asheron's Call.
Okay cool. You sound like you’re very familiar with the subject matter.
Yeah, I cleared plenty MMORPGs when I was much younger until I grew out of them. They are just Second Life with bad combat mechanics. In WoW, spells take even one second (and longer!) to channel, it's so stupid. Even a grandpa could interrupt those.
You'll never convince MMO players of this because all they play is MMOs. They don't understand they are playing a genre that requires no skill or intelligence, since it's all they know and all they play. Most haven't even played other MMOs, let alone other genres.
I play plenty of other games, including competitive multiplayer games.
Have you ever played WoW at the highest level?
I know.
>competitive multiplayer games
Oh great, point-and-click games and four-skill-dumbed-down-W3-mods. So impressive.
How has your performance been at fighting games? You have at least 1800 MR in SF already, right?
I play melee
Not a fighting game but a party game for children.
Do you expect people to seriously engage with you or do you just not give a shit?
I've stopped giving a shit a long time ago, my friend.
It is more streamlined and simplified now, even the screening process. You just check the guy's logs, and if he's bad, it will be there in the numbers. If he doesn't have any, you let him in but don't give him any loot for 2 weeks (or more).
that kind of bullshit is why people don't want to raid, let alone play WoW
Okay, there is an even simpler way. You can apply to a GDKP as a buyer. You don't have to know your class or even the mechanics. Just pay with gold for loot.
you are not helping your case at all.
they still do that now
>Remember guilds that did interviews for recruitment?
I honestly think that WoW gave me more corporate and leadership experience than highschool and university combined. I learned just what kind of leadership worked, and what kind of leadership didn't... first hand! Plus putting together a resume for interviews, going through with the nerves of having an interview, etc.
It's all really formulative stuff
WoW Vanilla is an absolute masterpiece that has defined the genre for better or worst. No other mmo was able to capture this feeling of a vast world and treacherous adventure. Mechanics and controls are silky smooth which allows for some cool PvP (even if that's unpopular). It is still playable and get enthusiasm 20 years later for a reason. Following expansions arguably ruined the game and were only a greedy scheme to make money.
>masterpiece
>stats are +damage +health +mana
>gameplay is pressing 1 button over and over
>fake skill trees
>multiple unusable specs, even before people knew the mathematically best options
>no need to communicate until level cap
>open world is nothing but quest hubs
>BoP gear
>soulbinding
yeah. nice "masterpiece" that devolved from the games before it.
unusable specs, even before people knew the mathematically best options
Asymmetry is what makes things cool and memorable, classes were made with specific weaknesses and strengths in mind. Specs that would be "bad" (suboptimal) in raids, would be really good in PvP and vice versa. The notion that some are useless and unpickable is one of metaslave, cumbrained parseBlack person poopsocks which they managed to shove successfully onto the rest of the playerbase.
Each class has its own gimmick, no two class is the same, whereas in r*tail you have stuns, mobility, ohshitbuttons and everything else on every class and spec.
You are a dumb, moronic drone.
>You are a dumb, moronic drone
>post filled with buzzwords and nothingspeak
>thinking i was talking about raids
yeah okay buddy. hopefully your brain develops a little more once you turn 20.
>4(four) whole buzzwords
You didn't even read it, not that a QoL-based lifeform retailnig would have the attention span to.
I accept your concession.
I play classic FFXI moron
So a chat room?
yes, just like vanillagays constantly beg and plead to come back, even ITT. believe it or not, I want to be SOCIAL in an MMO. I know, this is hard to grasp for a WoW player. I actually LIKE being able to trade endgame pieces, and having to form alliances for gathering, and needing 5 people to level, and needing 18 people to do anything at endgame. I know, I like being around other people, don't get too scared at the idea.
nvm i kneel
it's fine anon I don't care about feeling superior, I just want WoWgays to be honest and stop trying to gaslight people into thinking vanilla was hardcore because it was the first video game they played. If they were actual nerds, like they pretend they were, they would've known the appeal of MMOs was the unique items, large world, and the ability to chat with others in real time. It wasn't the gameplay. I never met a fellow nerd back then that said "WOAHHH EVERQUEST LOOKS SO HARDCORE AND ACTION PACKED" they said "it's like dnd but you can play with the whole world!"
shit, didn't mean to give off that impression, i thought the consensus was settled that vanilla was actually not hard at all, it was simply the most social and least solo-able expansion of them all, which is what made it great
I myself never played it when it came out, played classic when it came out, went in with no nostalgia goggles whatsoever, and found out that it was simply a better game than the other expansions
yeah absolutely it's better than current WoW, but that's mainly because it held onto a shred of what made the older mmos remembered and what people wish would come back. which is less complexity, more teamwork mechanics, and longer levelling and less endgame. FF11 recently celebrated its 20th anniversary and a large amount of people played for the first time, and even in its modern state with all the QoL it never got rid of the old mmo stuff and I saw so many people saying "I wish WoW/xiv had this stuff!", and it's ironic because those games are 10x more demanding now in terms of player input.
Would you recommend ff11, or has its time passed so to say? I'm willing to try it.
It's time both has and hasn't passed, but if you're curious, play the horizon/eden private server for awhile since they're free. Retail isn't bad, but it's not slow and it's entirely focused on endgame. FFXI didn't raise it's level cap from 75 for like.. almost 6 years, so the old servers are more cohesive. Up to you if you're willing to put up with the timesink though.
A few friends and i currently haven't had anything to play for a few weeks, we played on most vanilla private servers so far. The horizon/eden thing sounds perfect, i'll try it out and see how it goes.
good luck anon, just expect nothing to ever be explained and for levelling to be *slow*. Past level 10 you'll need a party to start levelling. It won't be a big deal on horizon cause of its large population, but try not to be too intimidated and just talk with people. No one minds new players (so long as you don't act dumb and get them killed, if you make someone downlevel they may not be so kind kek)
>downlevel
oh shit, griefing opportunities, hope it's not bannable because i won't be able to resist
it's not bannable unless you're a veteran who knows better, but if being a bastard is what you're after, play thief. They're specialty is obtaining loot, at level 15 you get a trait called treasure hunter, that increases the drop rates of items by an unknown amount depending on rarity (nobody knows the exact rate for the items), and when you're a high enough level you'll be able to hunt notorious monsters to get rare drops you can sell to people for millions.
I will do my best.
Being able to trade endgame pieces just results in
>People RMTing the gear or selling runs
>Streamers getting funneled
>Raid leaders and guild master getting funneled
>streamers getting funneled
disregarded. post again when you're over 21.
All of that already happens
You didn't play Vanilla, did you? You wouldn't say there are no social interactions if that was the case.
In Classic Vanilla I was in a guild of pvpers, trolls and griefers. We would talk like moronic 11 years olds and do stupid shit to annoy people. There were beefs, dramas and shits all the time on my server. People were actually roleplaying organically because of the immersion. Two things made that possible, people being forced to interact with the world outside instances and being able to influence that world with your actions.
i remember the realm forums being a real hotbed of drama, remember when the 2 factions hated each other? fun times
>remember when the 2 factions hated each other? fun times
That's the thing. Even 20 years later with all the soulless gaming mentality in the world, it's still the case.
I'm talking about Classic Vanilla which was huh... 4 years ago? Goddamn time flies.
>We would talk like moronic 11 years olds
You WERE moronic 11 years olds.
>being able to influence that world with your actions.
this is the thickest pair of rose tinted glasses i think i have ever seen for a game as static and unchanging as vanilla wow
We made death squads multiple time to prevent guilds from entering raids or instances. Prevented world buff resets and ganked at hot spots. Make a mess during world bosses. How are those not having an influence on people and the world? Rose tainted glasses my ass, I've played enough mmos to know most of them did not allow that kind of stuff.
>most of them did not allow that
>didn't play DaoC
>didn't play FFXI
>didn't play EQ
>didn't play EQ2
>didn't play SWG
the best part is the stuff you could do in WoW was child's play compared to ffxi.
i got a gm to reset and entire zone because i pulled every single mob to the entrance of den of rancor to block out a LS i didn't like from bringing their mules through RoZ
How is that any different from kiting Teremus to Stormwind to make him breath and kill lowbies? I could say leveling in FFXI is child play if you don't have the risk of PvP at all time.
>no risk of pvp
>he never mpkd someone
>he never mob bombed pts
casual
That sounds quite limited and not like you'd feel potentially threatened constantly. Anyway I'm here to talk about a game I like not to judge yours or compare dicks.
I said most of them for a reason. Mmos since then haven't given that freedom.
>this homie never tried to get a cloudsong on mordred
For me, it was the perpetual war between Astranaar and Splinter Tree Post. Whenever things started to feel a little too peaceful I'd wander on over to STP to kick the hornet's nest.
>You didn't play Vanilla, did you?
>I'm talking about Classic Vanilla
moron, vanilla back in '04 and classic release had two completely different player mindsets and a world that was explored front and back (classic) vs a world unexplored (vanilla). I was there for both and there was a HUGE difference in attitude on both
Nice one calling me a moron over something I haven't said or implied, Black person. Of course it wasn't the same and I was there for both too. The fact Classic Vanilla still had the soulful beefs between players regardless makes my point. Even if it was over shit like world buffs or bosses there was still a sense of community and players interactions. It heavily depended with who and where you played also, my server was medium and my troll guild was laidback.
>Nice one calling me a moron over something I haven't said or implied
You literally said vanilla, then turned around and said
>I meant classic vanilla
Get your shit straight next time nigguh
Bruh it's the same game and I think what I've said applies for both. Sure the magic is gone but the core of it is still there despite gamers being bored and boring. I romanticized a bit to write cool but you got the idea of what makes me like it. Pvp and being able to mess with people.
>Bruh it's the same game
I would have agreed back in 2019 classic release, but it is def not the same game anymore since blizz decided to make a few changes lmao
Ye well layers, auto reports, forced batching... I can't deny but it still was cool to play in a lively Azeroth where people couldn't just fly away from you or queue dungeons from capitals.
>though players' attitudes and skill level have changed too much for it to be the same experience
True and I was chasing that high when going. Finding cool people who just wanted to have fun and being in a small server where you actually get to know everyone made me play for the whole thing.
>Classic now, though, as in WotLK Classic, is just retail-lite. It even has its own Mythic-lite mode for dungeons.
Once TBC Classic released I was hit with the cold truth, expansions ruined the game. WOTLK actually put the nail in the coffin and perception of it has been skewed by its success back then.
The initial release of the Classic was the same game, yeah, though players' attitudes and skill level have changed too much for it to be the same experience.
Classic now, though, as in WotLK Classic, is just retail-lite. It even has its own Mythic-lite mode for dungeons.
>It even has its own Mythic-lite mode for dungeons.
I died laughing when I heard these were coming out in WotLK classic
>classes were made with specific weaknesses and strengths in mind.
warrior was the best at dps and tanking, meanwhile every other class was worse for dps and tanking
what are their strengths if warrior has 2 roles on lock?
All of that is wrong once you factor in PvP which welcomes creativity. If you only PvE the game can be quite blend at endgame that is true. Even if the raids are cool lore wise, they are terrible mechanically but you have to consider the 2004 shitty PCs and dial up internet from back then. I wish they would fix that with Classic+ but Actiblizz are just lazy woke pieces of shits.
Quest hubs were introduced in TBC.
BoP is a design choice along the time-gate over extremely grindy crafting to make the game more casual friendly.
>Add-ons
If anything the existence of that kind of addon proves that you can easily get lost in the world, like any good RPG should be.
WoW is not even my favorite mmorpg
How are bosses that can mop the floor with 40 players not intimidating in some ways? Or trying to kill an elite mob alone that will most likely own you? Wandering around and staying on your guard if an enemy rogue jump your ass?
>No other mmo was able to capture this feeling of a vast world and treacherous adventure
You have only played WOW.
FF11 did it like 90x better than EQ and 150x better than WoW. Nothing in WoW is intimidating cause everything is piss easy by design.
yeah you're right
Lightning in a bottle that Blizzard fumbled hard.
It was never good.
Posting WoW threads back in 2004-09 would get your ass b& and your shit thread deleted because it wasn't viewed as a video game, but as a tertiary job to grind and farm.
not reading this thread tbh
DF is pure kino tbh
Blizzard has shown they can hide things through their Secret events. It’s just not worth it for most of the content in a patch.
theres only one reason, Black folk didnt have access to the internet yet back then
Social media didn't exist so it was a good community hub for gamers. That's literally it.
Look at WoW classic today, with people raiding for 1 hour and then logging off until next week. The novelty was the only thing that made WoW good and that novelty ended when other venues for online socialization happened.
>the novelty was good
>it was new
Okay, so there was a game that came out recently, and it was new. It was called...New World. It was new and novel and fun and cool...but why did it die in like a month??? I thought new = good?
Modern gamers make multiplayer games tedious and awful. Because of Twitch and hypercriticism and meta breaking games are torn to shreds by the insatiable mob. If your game is weak it will be torn to shreds and hyper-analyzed where 20 years ago it would take months or years for that to happens. Think how long Rift and Warhammer Online lasted compared to New World, the fact is the current gaming community is toxic and corrosive. I actually don't think you can make a profitable MMO today.
because the game fricking sucked ass, dude.
PvP has always been shit because WoW is a PvE game. You can ignore a WoW players opinion on PvP.
do people really think people didn't make quest helpers as the very first addons lol those were everywhere, just because you were too moronic or young to find them doesn't mean they didn't exist.
anon anybody trying to defend vanilla in 2023 doesnt "think"
theyre not human, they dont have the capacity for it
>do people really think people didn't make quest helpers as the very first addons lol those were everywhere
What exactly do you mean by "quest helpers"? Because straight up in-game leveling guides with arrows that tells you exactly where to go and what to do weren't around until later.
The earliest quest-related addon I can think of that gave an actual advantage in terms of information, was MonkeyQuest. But even then, it just gave you a description of what to do in text form when hovering over quests, so you didn't have to alt+tab to read Thottbot. It didn't give you any arrows or markers/circles on the map or anything. If it said "Kill 12 bears at Homestead Farm" you would still have to find Homestead Farm yourself.
>I tried to play WoW atleast two hours two times or three (in the time of MoP, Cata, Legion, can't exactly remember), and everytime i quit.
what made wow great was long gone by the time you started
wow went to shit towards the end of the first expansion (burning crusade) and then became irredeemable shit from then on
>wow went to shit towards the end of the first expansion (burning crusade)
I will preface by saying that i am very late to WoW, have never experienced the hay days of the game but can only imagine, i hold a great deal of respect for vanilla and especially its community, immagining experience such a vast game back in the day.
I totally agree with your sentiment and i started in shadowlands, i was never a fan of retail, fricked off to vanilla pretty quickly, i played on and off, never really raiding i liked leveling a few characters then jumping onto the next thing, i was always mesmerized by the world, vanilla has to this day, probably the best map of any game in terms of variety imho, onto your point, i feel like everyone always hyped wotlk to be the best expansion just because subs were at an all time high, well, imho wotlk is a steaming pile of shit, the dungeons are horrible just a slogfest of boredom and repetitive unfun enemies/locations, wotlk areas aren't even that good except for grizzly hills which has a very nice soundtrack it just feels lame and bad, leveling from 70 to 80 is a slog of VERY repetitive quests, they dumbed down leveling and dungeons with heirlooms, raids aren't even that interesting, naxx is nice but it's literally a vanilla raid, TBC had cooler zones, cooler dungeons and waaay cooler raids.
The only real cool game changing feature that wotlk brought was achievements and some mounts/collectibles, which is always nice, overall i think it shifted wow in a worse direction.
what ruined wow around that time was that they turned a unique player-driven experience, into a railroaded endorphin farm
blizzard have been hell-bent on turning the game into a snorefest since it began making stupid money in late vanilla/TBC, and the reason was that they thought it was more important to cater to the newcomers, instead of the existing fanbase
they ended up removing what made the game unique and fun to play in the process, and now the game is in this sorry state
>b-but it was just because the internet, and MMOs were new! this wouldve happened regardless!
go look at eve online, an MMO from 2003 which has always been 1000x smaller than wow, and is still going to this day
the reason? player-driven experiences and emergent gameplay
>unique player-driven experience
WoW was not this in any scenario
it was about instances and following bland quests
Its still about that, but now the some of the instances are too hard for shitters so they cope about it
>blizzard have been hell-bent on turning the game into a snorefest
vanilla 1 button gameplay with 0 mechanic bosses is a snorefest, the game ramped up from that
>instead of the existing fanbase
the existing players are the ones totally unable to hit their buttons?
>the game ramped up from that
it was not mechanically challenging, but you actually had to do resource management for fights
unlike r*tail where you jump into 15 mobs, each 2-3 levels higher than you and you just aoe waveclear them
>it was about instances and following bland quests
if it was like that for you, then i feel sorry for you, it was very different for those of us with the ability to imagine how we wouldve felt if we didnt eat breakfast yesterday
WoW was the equivalent of Fortnite back in the days, it was a super casual, cartoony game aimed towards children. Played 99% by kids.
Everyone that praises WoW here played it was a young kid and it's mostly just nostalgia.
WoW was the MMORPG that RUINED MMORPG's
>has colours
>it's cartoony
true pissfilter 2000s shooter playing zoomoid moment
Are you attempting some sort of history revisionism? Yes, it was a much more casual game compared to other MMOs, but most people from games like EQ, Lineage, AC, UO, SWG, etc. migrated over(even if reluctantly at first), leaving those games to die.
So your idea of "99% of WoW's playerbase was kids" is objectively wrong.
>Are you attempting some sort of history revisionism?
WoW was hated by actual older people back in the days, just like Fortnite is hated today.
Did you even read my post? All the other MMOs died because people left them for WoW, thus you can't say that 99% of WoW's playerbase were kids. It makes no logical sense.
Everquest is still alive today you moron, SWG died because of moronic changes and so on. Lineage sequel is still played today.
What the frick are you on about.
Let me ask you this simple question, how old are you?
No, they're dead. WoW killed your shitty games. That's the only reason you hate it.
>it exist so it's alive
LARP
>Everquest is still alive today you moron
They lost 90% of their players when WoW came out. Yes, it has still been chugging along at death's door, but it's pretty fricking dead.
>SWG died because of moronic changes and so on
CU and NGE change were literally in response to them losing players to WoW. Gordon Walton has literally said so himself several times.
>Let me ask you this simple question, how old are you?
32. About to be 33.
That's not even true, WoW was an teenager and adult game, there was almost no kids because you had to have a brain to not die to aggro solo leveling. Unlike Fortnite that is played by literal 8 year olds.
How old are you?
>because you had to have a brain to not die to aggro solo leveling.
The reason WoW got so popular was because how braindead EASY it was, it was played mostly by young kids.
Why didn't you answer the question? How old are you now and how old were you when you played WoW first?
Young enough to break your spine with one hand, grandpa. Time to join with your dogshit boomerslop in DEATH.
>it was played mostly by young kids.
no, it was mostly played by teenagers and adults.
t. teen that played during tbc
I was 17 when WoW released. It wasn't played by young kids, I don't know of any kids who played WoW but I personally knew many adults who played, just about everyone at work played it. Kids did NOT play WoW and they certainly were not the majority. There was not kids saying "For the Horde" at school doing Fortnite dances. It's just an outright lie to suggest WoW was like like Fortnite, WoW was many adults' first game.
>tfw i was doing undead and orc dances in 8th grade when wotlk came out
>Played 99% by kids.
this is so off-base it's comical
How old where you when vanilla came out?
EVERY single kid in school played it you tard, everyone you met in-game was a young kid.
So you were a kid, like I said.
>So you were a kid, like I said.
I was 15 when I started playing, I think. Far from a "Fortnite kid" like you insinuated. Also, why did you ignore the 2 other points where I blew you the frick out? I guess I accept your concession.
I have no idea why you think being a 15 year old who played WoW is somehow different from being a 15 year old who plays Fortnite.
You have no idea how a 15 year old playing an MMO in 2004 is different from a 15 year old playing Fortnite in 2023? Are you just being dishonest on purpose? Playing online video games in 2004 was a pretty fricking niche thing compared to how insanely mainstream the industry is now.
It made headlines that WoW sold 240k copies, just for a comparison of how different things were back then.
So there are more people playing online games now, so it's actually more of a normal thing for kids to be playing Fortnite, and somehow that makes them worse than you, a kid who played Warcraft at the same age? Alright man.
Gaming overall is 100000x more accessible and accepted in 2023 compared to 2004. A 15 year old playing MMOs in the early 2000s is not even close to being the same as a 15 year old playing Fortnite in 2023. The fact that you can't understand this is mindboggling
see
Did you forget the reason WoW was so popular with kids was because it was accepted and so accessible?
WoW was mainstream as frick
See
>It made headlines that WoW sold 240k copies, just for a comparison of how different things were back then.
Did you forget about the fricking "10 MILLION PLAYERS ARE PLAYING WOW!" shit? Did you forget that there were actual fricking TV-ads with WoW featuring the biggest celebrities? Did you forget about popular shows like South Park doing WoW advertisement?
Who the frick are you trying to fool that WoW was never mainstream?
Are you a moron? We're talking about vanilla WoW which launched in 2004. You are talking about WotLK at its peak in 2010. Holy frick you are stupid.
Yes, WoW when it launched had crazy amount of players as well, what the frick are you talking about?
Are you seriously trying to rewrite history and say WoW was never the biggest goyslop mainstream game at the time?
Are you being dishonest on purpose? I gave an example of how WoW made headlines by selling 240k copies in 2004, and then you attempt to counter it by saying "ACKSHUALLY IT HAD 12 MILLION SUBS NEARLY 7 YEARS LATER IN LATE 2010".
I am not saying that WoW wasn't popular, but we were talking WoW vs Fortnite. The difference between those two is on a completely different level.
What point?
>WoW was so popular and casual it killed MMORPG's by catering and pandering to kids and the wider audience
>let me just ignore that MMORPG's older than WOW are still alive today...because that doesn't fit my agenda.
That was my point moron, just like AAA slop today, WoW killed the genre by making everyone chase the "WoW bottle in a lightning" by dumbing down all the MMORPG's and pandering to kids and morons.
PvP MMORPGs are on the rise. Nobody wants to play another WoW clone PvE grinder.
there was no social media back when wow came out, so it was the best, and only, place to hang out online
>there was no social media back when wow came out
Ganker
MSN
Skype
IRC
AOL
ICQ
Xfire
Myspace
1 year later there was also the launches of Twitter and Reddit. Social media was there, but it just wasn't as widespread and mainstream.
wow is god wow is king wow is forever
It was back before datamining and obnoxious brits making meta guides on youtube. The good ol days.
the community made it good. it turned to shit for a few reasons. firstly the flood of thrid worlders who should have been blocked for our internet. second, the community was ravaged by normies mindlessly folowing guids and only interacting with their friend group in a voice chat call. classic era is still a good game, the community isnt as good as it was though
Raider's are some of the shittiest players in gaming, they've driven this franchise into the ground, most likely there's a huge connect between that homosexual playersbase and the furry shit they inject into the game, go dilate a spreadsheet homosexual, I just want to play vanilla wow
What the frick are you on about? Raiders don't give a flying frick about furry shit and most don't give a frick about anything story related either. All the furry shit and "MUH LORE" comes from RP gays who uses the game as a chat room.
Wow's shitty raid culture is a holdover from the poopsocking wienersuckers that ran everquest's culture into the ground turning it into a gatekept hardcore raiding shitheap. Someone surely has the lore about the hardcore everquest raider that blizzard hired. He would threaten evrquest devs about turning out more raids and shit. Pretty brutal stuff.
Retail is such an abomination, retoilets should have stars next to their posts so we can ignore their homosexual opinions, no one wants to play with your homosexual kind
In the good old days people had souls and approached MMORPGs from the perspective of adventure and wonder.
In the bad modern days people have no souls and approach MMORPGs from the perspective of consumption and competition.
To be fair, that shift happened because of executives who forced everyone into matchmaking-type systems that catered to a strange "A PLAYER MUST ALWAYS BE ON THE GO GO GO AS EASY AS POSSIBLE AND BE ABLE TO DO ANY CONTENT AT ANY SECOND" mentality, all in the pursuit of player retention and maximized profits.
And this is not just in MMOs. This exact same thing happened to the FPS genre as well. No more community servers, no more talking to each other and making friends, no more seeing the same people again and again to build a reputation, and so on. Now it's all just completely soulless to the point that other players might as well be NPCs.
The genre is doomed because even if you created the greatest MMORPG in history and released it now, modern gaming audience is still shit and would ruin the experience completely.
name one mmo ruined by the players that was not intended by the developers
Vanilla WoW was good, Classic WoW was horrendous.
i said not intentional
Ultima Online with the wildlife massacre.
vanilla wasnt good tho
when you make content so mindless and undertuned it can be beaten in non-max level characters wearing shitty leveling gear, its bad content
>yeah b-but the RAID
pveminded transsexual abomination
What else is there?
Dungeons that are also a joke?
World bosses that are also a joke?
PvP which is just a neetdom check?
Every single piece of vanilla content was undertuned because the game was badly made.
>Every single piece of vanilla content was undertuned because the game was badly made.
No, it was made for kids and casuals. It was designed to be created for the masses.
my Black person, this seems like child's play to you because you are reading guides (made by other people) on a solved, 20(twenty) year old game
had you played back then you would have been the same clueless moron you are today
So what was hard about the game? There was no punishment for dying, gameplay consisted of pressing like 1-2 buttons. I had people I raided with when I was a kid back in the days that didn't even have all spells on the hotbar.
The game was extremely easy and arcadey which is why so many kids played it.
Nearly every kid in school talked about it and my guild had so many kids.
you didn't have the memetic thought structure of solving video game problems 20 years ago, especially if it is your first game
you look at it from the lens of modern logic, imagine if your grandfather had to play and level
>nearly every kid talked about it
non-sequitur + i don't believe you
>There was no punishment for dying
Hey now, those repair bills got expensive if you were raiding with shitters.
For a first world teen with a creative mind Vanilla WoW was the greatest thing ever.
nice one, parseBlack person, raids were the sole focus of vanilla
That's absolutely not true, leveling was the WoW experience. Then most people just played AV/WSG/AB and did Onyxia/early MC casually.
Raid-logging wasn't a thing like nowadays.
>leveling was the WoW experience
so wanding trivial mobs to death is the wow experience?
sounds (and is) shitty
>is the wow experience?
Was. You can't have the experience. And it wasn't wanding trivial mobs, it was exploring the world and meeting new people and stumbling across surprises.
i know, i was being ironic
>when you make content so mindless and undertuned it can be beaten in non-max level characters wearing shitty leveling gear, its bad content
I assume you are referring to Molten Core. Let me just refresh your mind and tell you that it took 154 days for MC to be cleared by the world's best guild, who was full of tryhards playing 12 hours per day.
>that it took 154 days
of them not actively playing the content
if they had taken 154 days to actually learn how to play they would have steamrolled the first 4 expansions
you didn't play vanilla
i get more pussy than you
>i-I-I- GET MORE P-P-PUSSY THAN YOU!
lol whatever helps you sneed at night
>Onyxia - 69 days for world first clear.
>MC - 154 days for world first clear.
>BWL - 77 days for world first clear.
>AQ40 - 113 days for world first clear.
>Naxx - 90 days for world first clear.
Take these numbers and double(or even triple) them, for the average player. How in the frick can you look at these numbers and say that these raids were designed for "kids and casuals"?
Because I can count the mechanics on one hand and the damage checks are 1/10 of what players can do
>I can count
I literally just told you the exact amount of days it took for the world first clears. Those guilds were filled with the best players who played for 12 hours all day every day. You are looking back at things as if players back then had the knowledge and skill of players today, which is just an absolutely insane way to look at things, and it makes me think that you didn't actually play back then.
But they were all terrible at the game. You can also post kill times but that involves actually logging in and progging, not idling around for 4 hours and doing 1 pull on a boss, which is what actually happened
The best players being subhuman doesnt make the game hard
Youre talking about losers from EQ who didnt have real lives so they could camp all day
Youre also pretending like vanilla was a super deep game that took years to figure out. You LITERALLY press 1 button on half the classes in the game. Gee fricking wiz I wonder if I press shadowbolt or shadowbolt on warlock
There are tons of games that arent just trivialized by a small amount of information or experience. WoW is not one of them, because it is a shallow game
>But they were all terrible at the game
I will explain this to you once again. You are looking at it from a 2023 perspective. Back then the best players were considered amazing. It was a different time. Stop looking at the past with today's standards.
1 button is 1 button you moron
You literally cannot play vanilla classes wrong unless you dont hit buttons
>Back then the best players were considered amazing
only by people who didnt actually play the game. Personal opinons wont change reality,
And no, its not a 2023 perspective. Even in 2007 Naxx was so mindnumbingly simple compared to Ulduar or ICC its laughable. Vanilla was exclusively people being told it was hard and never actually trying, just a few years later people started to realized it was a joke mechanically, and after Classic in 2019 you cant even pretend it wasnt a joke numerically
>no, I am not using a <insert year perspective>
>proceeds to give several more <insert year perspective> examples
Yeah, you're definitely some 80 IQ moron.
>2007 is the same as 2023
nice cope
My whole point is literally that 2004 is NOT the same as 2023, and you are the one judging a game and its players from 2004 with a 2023 perspective.
The fact that you can't understand this extremely simple concept is baffling and I genuinely feel sorry for you, because you must be heavily developmentally challenged.
but Im not, as I've already explained even in a 2005 or 2007 perspective you can look and see how utterly mindnumbingly easy vanilla content was compared to shit like TK or Ulduar
Even in 2004 you had plenty of people from other MMOs calling WoW dumbed down and casualized
You just keep saying people are too stupid to take a critical look at things when theyre current, but its only because YOU and other normalgays were too stupid to do so despite people outside your bubble managing it just fine 20 years ago
>1 button is 1 button you moron
Not every class is a fricking mage.
And Ret Pally is somehow called a big brain class.
How would you feel if you hadn't eaten breakfast this morning?
>another pveminded parseBlack person thinking of mmo as a vacuum of you standing there and hitting a creep
never got ganked during leveling? never pulled a mob too many? never mismanaged your mana so you had to resort to melee or running?
>thinking of mmo as a vacuum of you standing there and hitting a creep
thats not MMOs, thats just vanilla because the mobs were all tank and spanks
>ganking
only happened on PvP servers and has nothing to do with vanilla, its present in every version of WoW
Except in other versions you might need to actually be good to kill someone instead of just autoattacking
>never pulled a mob too many
Just dont attack when mobs are together? real big brain play I know
>never mismanaged your mana so you had to resort to melee or running
there is no scenario where you cant kill a mob with a full mana bar, so this only happens if you played badly and didnt drink
And wanding is 0 button gameplay, so congrats on getting even more mindless than 1 button
>only happened on PvP servers and has nothing to do with vanilla
>has nothing to do with vanilla
Vanilla is known for its wpvp and constant encounters with the other faction due to lack of menus. You are being very disingenuous.
>Vanilla is known for its wpvp
No, because the majority of players werent even on PvP servers
and only silithus offered any reason for outdoor PvP
>due to lack of menus
it wasnt lack of menus, it was lack of anything else to do because the game was as shallow as a puddle
Because it was a new game and it took forever to level up, are you moronic? What does that have to do with how hard the raids were?
>Because it was a new game and it took forever to level up, are you moronic?
What the frick are you on about? This could maybe apply for Onyxia/MC, but not the rest.
90% of players couldn't handle raids at the time because they had shit computers.
>a game played 99% by kids still in school takes a lot of time to level and get to the max level to do raids.
NO WAY DUDE?
>Vanilla
>Played by kids
Not Runescape, Toontown, or any f2p mmo of the week?
Everquest
I think it is possible, you just need to make an MMO that does not appeal to mainstream audiences. Things like Pax Dei, Ashes of Creation, etc. have a much better chance of not being infested with morons because it's a more oldschool approach to MMOs with gathering, crafting, social building, instead of being focused on PvE raiding/instances.
>ashes of creation
speaking of, can't wait to play it when it comes out in 2058
Ashes of Creation will absolutely be filled with Asmongold-watching mouthbreathing morons. Pax Dei we don't know anything about yet.
Pantheon: RotF filtered Asmongay so that game might have a chance, if it ever gets released.
>at least two hours
now play any other mmo for 2 hours and you'll see what they mean
Vanilla is the only good version of WoW
No other game has made a better world to play in. Older MMOs were good in their own way but they're generally janky as shit without the art direction and fluid combat WoW had.
>Vanilla is the only good version of WoW
As a paladin main, I disagree. Vanilla was a ton of fun but paladins were pretty much hard stuck as the defacto Cleric on Alliance. The only time you'd see prot and ret pallies in endgame is if their guild has already gotten their warrriors, rogues and hunters BiS.
WotLK was my favorite because they finally made Paladins actual Paladins instead of glorified clerics in plate armor.
LITERALLY the single thing ret needed to not feel like shit was adding back crusader strike
Which we didn't get back until TBC. Which is why I said Vanilla Paladins were Clerics. Not Paladins. In my entire time playing og Vanilla I saw maybe 5 or 6 fully decked out Ret/Prot paladins. Every single other paladin was geared for healing.
>I tried to play WoW atleast two hours two times or three (in the time of MoP, Cata, Legion,
wow wasnt good for those time periods. the best time to play was before patch 1.06. the game then got slowly but progressively worse
>Legion
I had fun with Legion.
For me, it goes
WotLK >/= Vanilla > Legion > TBC *power gap* everything else
Bfa was the same game as Legion
If you don't rank them the same you're an NPC
I never played BFA
Legion > Dragonflight (but we still have at least one mega patch, can still be the number one) > BfA > Shadowland >>> old WoW (MoP, WotLK, BC, Vanilla) > Cata >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WoD
>Shitting on WoD
>Even though it was objectively a top 3 expansion that outclassed Wrath, TBC and Cata in terms of PvE, PvP and class design.
Just admit you didn't play WoD
>Gutted the frick out of every single class
>Outclasses anything in terms of class design and PVP
Genuinely fricking moronic.
To go from MoP which was actually peak pvp and class design to the rotten fricking dumpster fire that was WoD was a god damn insult.
Just say you played a warrior, nobody else would defend MoPs PvP
MoP was bloated, moron. And WoD had better gearing and PvP. There was Ashran and garrison buildings which incentivised Wpvp. It was kino
>Bloated
Skill issue
It's okay, the game is built for braindead morons like you now. Enjoy.
>Trashran and garrisons
Literally fricking have a nice day you worthless gorilla Black person.
I had a hunter I played surv and marks on, a sub rogue, an arcane mage, an hpal, and yeah ofc an arms war. Every class I played was enjoyable. Playing alts wasn't hell. Imagine that.
>MoP survival hunter
>[Explosive Shot] [Explosive Shot] [Explosive Shot] [Explosive Shot] [Explosive Shot]
Then they killed it for the melee hunter meme
You don't get to call anyone braindead after admitting to playing warrior in MoP
Games more skill focused now than in Second Wind era, but we both know you quit because you got bodied after your class was balanced
Again, skill issue.
Your now 3 to 5 button game is perfect for you.
Just say you sucked shit at PvP and move on with your life
Rotations are more elaborate now than in MoP, you just don't have 10 instant ccs to sit casters forever with no repercussions
Again, not surprised you're filtered by a balanced game
You sound like a massive frickwit. MoP class design was a step down from cata, the new talent tree was terrible and it was only fixed in WoD. WoD objectively had better gearing. MoP was spammy and unbalanced, the bloat sidnt make the game more technical. The game peaked in WoD
>Played Arms and Survival
You're subhuman
>Cata
Ruined the world
>MoP
Ruined talents
>WoD
Ruined the sound and animation
>Legion
Ruined class design across the board
WoW ended with wrath
it just was really good shit for the time it came out
massive open world without loading screen (outside of content changes and dungeons), great social experience, honestly good and responsive gameplay (again for the time), almost endless shit to do an collect
if that same game came out today, the gameplay would be underwhelming, the world generic and we would see most of it as just pointless time wasting tasks but again, back then it was amazing, specially because of the social part
>honestly good and responsive gameplay (again for the time)
The responsiveness of WoW was pure fricking magic. It was released in 2004 and now nearly 20 years later, I can't think of a single MMO that has felt as responsive overall. You felt like you were 100% in control of your character 100% of the time. It's a fricking mystery how no one has topped it since.
The only one I can think of that comes close would be something like BDO.
>The responsiveness of WoW was pure fricking magic. It was released in 2004 and now nearly 20 years later,
>tfw started playing WoW on a 56k connection
>tfw would lag out and crash in Goldshire
Guild Wars 2 has a similar feeling. The only issue is that comparatively your character feels like they are on iceskates sometimes.
>Guild Wars 2 has a similar feeling
Hell no. Everything in GW2 feels floaty. Attacks have no weight. Animations are strange. Sound design is meh. And then there's the whole ice skating thing you mentioned.
>Everything in GW2 is floaty
>Attacks have no weight
What, and WoW has a grounded, weighty feeling to it? We were talking about responsiveness.
Not a good comparison. GW2 is like a weird blend of action combat but imitating tab targeter combat. As a result it can have "floaty combat" since it has physics.
>What, and WoW has a grounded, weighty feeling to it?
No, WoW is in between floaty and weighty. It prioritizes a perfect feeling over looks/gameplay/realism.
join my /vm/ server:
https://register.vmwow.lol/
>do a heroic with 3 friends
>heyDPS do you need [Drop from next boss]?
>Yeah been trying for weeks 🙂
>votekick
have fun with deserter+lockout, gay
>act like an absolute moron and pull the wrong packs/do no dps
>party starts complaining
>vote to kick the tank, reason: "holding up the group :/"
>vote passes because they think it's about me
>group disbands instead of waiting for new tank
>Kids could be here, he thought.
I hate that WoW single handedly convinced people that raids are the entire point of MMOs and everything before raids is just a barrier to get to raids.
Raid logging killed the game and genre. Imagine basing your entire endgame around one or two instanced dungeons per handful of months and leaving players absolutely nothing else meaningful to do.
What a fricking waste.
it sucks and the blame is solely on EQgays for that one
>in EQ you don't press 1 button
not reading this thread but the average wow player in 2023 is a fricking moron
game was ruined when it became minmaxed
>Raids are a product of wiki metagaming.
>It was only WoW garbage that brought raid content into existence
this thread is fire
>somehow more troonypilled than modern wow
sheesh
What's with the revisionist autist Black person trying to create this notion that vanilla was played by "99% children"?
Because it was, you played it as a kid and everyone else here did.
because it helps his hyperbolic idea about the game being easy at the time. at my school more people played runescape which was actually kino as/with a kid
It's either some moron who is now 45 years old and was mad that WoW killed his UO/EQ/SWG game, or it's a zoomer who is trying to rewrite history for whatever reason.
I'd say the game was proportionally more popular among teens/kids than modern MMOs that are played by adults who used to be those teens/kids.
wow was played by everyone. kids, adults, even parents. it was THE casual MMO. did people forget the celebrity ads on tv where they tried to sell you that "hey im a busy adult but i still play wow :)"
any MMO with kids?
>in the time of MoP, Cata, Legion
sorry bro, you just plain missed it. You will never experience what people liked about WoW because you were presumably born too late and it was already gone by the time you got a chance to try the game for yourself.
Frick this moronic discussion about who's to blame for raids and shit.
We're never getting the mid 2000s back. You can't put the genie back in the bottle. Never again will people simply bumble around in an online game and wonder at what's around them while playing suboptimally because they don't know any better. That simply isn't the world we live in anymore.
And for that reason alone there is no point in playing a game like WoW anymore. XIVgays genuinely have the right idea by going all in on casual content and dressup - it is legitimately more expressive and dynamic than everyone following meta builds and watching video guides to beat scripted encounters.
Frick this gay genre. Frick the gay playerbase that pines for new experiences but can't let go of old ones and wants the new ones to have all the same features as the old ones and be designed the same as the old ones.
xiv would be good if it had interesting races and wpvp, it has the right idea but it's just too eastern
>wpvp
slop for asiatics
>slop for asiatics
I find your lack of will to exert your influence over some other dude and shit on him in a video game very weird. Get your testosterone levels checked.
Wpvp isn't new anymore. If anything it is REDFLAG at this point. To bait hardcore pvp tards into game. The wet dream of any MMO developer is making money without content. This is why they trying to push player driving shit in every mmo. It just never works.
>it has the right idea but it's just too eastern
WoW unironically feels more eastern than XIV
>if it had wpvp
L M A O, no it wouldn't the combat system itself is so bad for pvp nobody touches it as it is
>Never again will people simply bumble around in an online game and wonder at what's around them while playing suboptimally because they don't know any better
Technically, you can actually solve this to some extent. If eventually some developer manages to make an MMO that streams everything 24/7 and has areas, bosses, etc. that change over time, then you won't be able to datamine everything and plan everything out, because you don't actually know what you will be experiencing.
I think the next huge MMO will be like this. You will be in a living and breathing world that's constantly changing, and you can't actually prepare for the changes before you see/experience them.
I really don't have any faith in the future of this genre. I think all the major publishers have given up on it and New World is the last major release we're going to see until something major changes like mass VR adoption.
There's tons of MMOs being developed right now, actually. The genre is soon going to be more alive than it has been in the last decade.
>Blizzard survival game - Semi-MMO ala Rust/Ark, hundreds of players per server [2024/2025]
>Ghostcrawler+Holinka unannounced MMO - No info [????]
>Throne and Liberty - Lineage 2 spiritual successor, PvP focus [2024 in the west]
>Lord of the Rings MMO - Third age, Amazon Games [????]
>Chrono Odyssey - Korean action combat [2024?]
>Pax Dei - Ex-EVE devs, fantasy sandbox w/ territorial control [????]
>Tarisland - Chinese WoW [Late 2023]
>Warhammer MMO - Ex-CoH/CoV devs + NetEase, likely WH40K [????]
>Warhammer MMO - Age of Sigmar, Nexon [????]
>Perfect New World - Korean action MMO [????]
>Quinfall - Looks like Mortal Online+Archeage [2023?]
>Archeage 2 [2024?]
>Zenimax Online MMO - No info, +200 devs [????]
>Aion 2 - PvP focus w/ some PvE [2024?]
>Night Crows - 1000 player PvP [Late 2023?]
>Corepunk - Isometric MMO ala LoL/DotA [Likely 2024]
>Project D - Spiritual Dragon Nest sequel, w/ open world [Likely 2024]
>Blue Protocol - Semi-MMO. 30 per zone, 200 per town ala Tower of Fantasy/Genshin Impact [Late 2023]
>Ashes of Creation - Archeage/Lineage PvP, EQ/WoW PvE, territorial control/city building/crafting [2025/2026?]
>Riot MMO - No info [????]
>Dune: Awakening - By Funcom [2024?]
>Playable Worlds - No info [????]
>Profane - Sandbox. Valheim w/ PvP [2024/2025?]
>Starkeepers - Sandbox. Territorial control, city building [????]
>Soulframe Semi-MMO. Developers of Warframe [????]
>Ashfall - Post-apocalyptic, The Division-style [2024?]
>BitCraft - Sandbox. Procedurally generated world. City building/crafting [2024/2025?]
>Project LLL - The Division/Warframe mix. Open world PvE+PvP [2024?]
>Project ER - Large-scale siege PvP. Territorial control, seamless world [????]
>RF Project - Mechs, open world, 3 faction RvR ala DAoC [????]
90% asiaticslop
they've never made a good one and never will
The majority of them are western games. Not sure what the frick you are talking about.
The only thing on that list that looks like it might be something is Blue Protocol.
Everything else is either not actually an MMO in the traditional sense, will be in development hell for the next decade, or is korean garbage.
>The only thing on that list that looks like it might be something is Blue Protocol
>Everything else is either not actually an MMO in the traditional sense
Are you unaware that Blue Protocol is not really an MMO in the traditional sense either? 200 players per channel in cities, 30 per channel in any area outside of cities.
You are right but the only one that has any chance of being decent is Riot's, the rest is asiaticshit or tech demos.
>Blizzard survival game - Semi-MMO ala Rust/Ark, hundreds of players per server [2024/2025]
I have no hope for any Blizzard game after what they did with OW2 and D4. No one should expect anything even remotely good from then anymore.
>Lord of the Rings MMO - Third age, Amazon Games [????]
Same deal as blizzard. Amazon fricked up new Wolrd and keeps insisting on censoring things that not a single normal person cares about.
>Never again will people simply bumble around in an online game and wonder at what's around them while playing suboptimally because they don't know any better
This is definitely the #1 reason MMOs will never be good again, but i do think the modern MMO design of "remove the player from the world, put them into queues and then send them to separate lobbies called "instances"" is a huge fricking part of the problem with modern MMOs that cannot be understated in how much damage it causes them.
You really think it was the adults filling the Barrens chat with Chuck Norris jokes?
EverQuest rated M for Mature
My favourite parts of WoW when I played were hardcore raiding and pet battles :^)
Reminder that Black Desert managed to keep nearly everything hidden from players, and it made the playerbase so mad that the devs had do change it.
The world felt alive but the game had tons of issues. Blizzard in their infinite wisdom decided to add features with expansion instead of fixing said issues.
1 button anon is probably thinking gameplay in those old MMOs is giga complex piano because screenshots looks rad
Going by that 3 lines of gibberis I'll take a hard guess and say you're either still in your failure of a fathers ballsack or were already shat out by your roastie mums blown out vag at the time the game released. It was at a different time you have no memory of and will never ever get to experience. There's your answer, thanks for playing enjoy your so called golden age of this current hellhole.
Raider's are mentally ill they'll play both sides of the argument to keep gatekeeping this genre into the fricking gutter and oblivion, it's such homosexual repulsive behavior, go fricking dilate a spreadsheet homosexual and rope
It was an open world game with a huge focus on both cooperative and player vs player game play with a massive population in a time when social media didn't exist. It was incredibly addicting with the gear grind that you were able to use to kill other players and compare with others and it was a very casual friendly game compared to previous MMOs which were much more hardcore and demanded a lot more of your time. It was one of the first that I can recall that allowed you to hit max level by yourself if you wanted to because it had the quest system instead of requiring you to grind the same mobs for hours on end like EQ or FFXI.
When you look at mobile games and modern AAA games you will see countless parts of their formula stolen wholesale from WoW. The RPG elements, the colored coded gear, the questing systems complete with ! and ?, the quest design in general("mmo fetch quests" is typically used as an insult, referencing WoW), talent trees, etc. Mobile games as well have used a lot of the social systems like guilds and being able to show off to your friends list and to "outgear" people in PvP to hit some of the same notes that WoW did.
Most people that did not play WoW have kinda played WoW if they've played a modern AAA open world game because WoWs influence has spread and kinda ruined gaming at large and I say this as someone that wasted years of their life on the game and used to be a huge blizzdrone. But that makes it easy to see the WoW elements in modern games when you play them.
>When you look at mobile games and modern AAA games you will see countless parts of their formula stolen wholesale from WoW. The RPG elements, the colored coded gear, the questing systems complete with ! and ?, the quest design in general("mmo fetch quests" is typically used as an insult, referencing WoW), talent trees, etc. Mobile games as well have used a lot of the social systems like guilds and being able to show off to your friends list and to "outgear" people in PvP to hit some of the same notes that WoW did.
None of that is from WoW you moron. All predate WoW
I was 12 years old when WOTLK released and that's when I started playing, so i basically missed out on the golden age of WoW, I remember buying some blue axe from the AH because i thought it looked cool and I kept dying to gnolls because i was clicking my abilities and had no idea what i was doing, then during my teen years I got really good and got into end game PVE/PVP, I just wish I had been like 17/18 when vanilla first launched instead of 8.
>play game long after it turned to shit
>it's shit
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW
wow was always shit
only shitters and children liked it.
thats why its dying
the games gotten harder and people got older and better taste
>wow released 2004
>19 years
everything else is beside the point in face of 19 fricking years. Who the frick plays the same shit that long.
>was
still is
As with any MMORPG or online RPG it's fun factor is almost 100% dependent on the people you play with. WoW has a solid base as an RPG and is pretty fun in it's own right (Vanilla - WotLK). But don't you dare give Acti/Blizz your money. Just find a private server for you and your buds to play on
Is Joe really going to hold the longest reign for TWO ROH belts?
WoW was always a shit game. The real secret in WoW's success was existing in that golden period when the internet was becoming more accessible to nerds across the word, just before the accessibility hit critical mass and moronic normie masses invaded (and ruined) its spaces.
WoW is still more fun as a mmo than any other mmo. All those mmos that tried to go against it have failed every single time.
>WoW is the least smelliest pile of shit in the cesspit that is the MMO genre!
Okay.
I wonder what all those devs were thinking making a 1:1 inferior clone of it. Still, people dont have the same faith in Blizzard now compared to the "wow killer days".
Blizzard scared away all its devs with these diversity and liberal school hires so it was bound to go down eventually. Still the gameplay is still relatively still fun.
and what has that have anything to do with giving people what they want and letting them play vanilla classic on fresh servers?
why are you gatekeeping the game inserting your homosexual culture war forced representation and then giving us these half assed releases of classic like season of mastery and hardcore
either give us classic vanilla without the forced gender homosexualry all the censorship you shit up the game with and the fricking stupid homosexual incubus, you homosexual culture warriors are a fricking disease GO FRICKING DIE AND LET ME PLAY THE GAMES I LIKE YOU FRICKING PARASITE
>normies ruined MMOs
Can we really call people that spend money on sparklemounts normies? I'm thinking a more pathetic version of a "nerd" is responsible. Like the kind of person that spends money on waifu gacha when he can just hire a prostitute or let alone, fricking jack off to doujins featuring said character.
>What WoW ACTUALLY did to be a good game that is worth playing for more than two years?
wow was the attentoin stealer before smart phones were a thing
phonegays are the real wowkiller
You create your character (it's you) and that's it. You can do whatever you want, go wherever you want and live your live in game. That was good time.
you will never understand
when WoW came out almost nobody knew how to play an MMO, EVERYBODY was a huge fricking noob (keyboard turning, clicking, etc.) for YEARS after release
that's an experience that no game developer will ever be able to replicate again and its the big reason WoW was so much fun back then
Wow is just dungeons and dragons successfully codified into gameplay.
Vanilla 1-60 is the perfect 20-30 session campaign.
Raiding, PVP, professions are all optional activities compared to just walking around Azeroth, looking at the map, and picking the next objective.
TomTom coordinates in thottbot comments. Offical realm forums. Class forums. YTMND was the pinnacle of internet humor.
Had to have been there.
man I wish this game was actually still good
the environment art and netcode are still perfect
just replace literally all the writers and class design people and make bridging the gap between lfr moron and mythic plus less of an obnoxious task. raise the skill floor and lower the point of entry into endgame
WoDsisters we're so back, surely nothing terrible will happen to our renewed playerbase!
anyone talking about “endgame” or stats or meta nonsense in this thread can be ignored and are just repeating nonsense they read about but never experienced. nobody played mmos in the old days to be a mirthless freak who just speedruns through everything and optimizes their “builds”. MMOs were worlds that you immersed yourself in and explored and carved out your own path, and had cool social experiences with people. these modern MMOs that funnel you through a main storyline (LOL) with a million fast travel options and instant access to raids or pvp through menu-diving are not MMOs, they are slop for morons who don’t know how to enjoy themselves
MMOs haven't offered that for about a decade.
The spirit of old MMOs lives on in survival games. Shit like Conan Exiles on a big server resembles actual MMOs far more accurately than any current MMO.
Once "competition" starts and wikis are available, meta shit ruins your game unless the devs are adamant about fricking over sweaties
That style of play has been completely done away with due to being playing the game as if it were a fricking competition.
It's all about optimization and being the first on your server to have a thing now. It's moronic. People don't treat these games like they're big worlds to explore at all.
>Anyone can explain to me why WoW was "best game in existence"?
who the frick says that? no one.
stop talking to morons
For lots of people WoW was a WOW factor, being one of their first or just first open world 3d you can do all kind of shit games and hey you can play it with your entire school/town/region.
It also used to be easy to somewhat easy to approach (big thing vs older mmos) but was still punishing and had places for autism to grow. Modern wow are just instance spam, classic still being alive shows that there is a market for just killing 10 boars and not standing in the fire with your friends/random people and even solo.
nothing beats wows core class fantasy/lore and combat
WoW Lore was never that great, but the approach in vanilla with the significant but not WORLD DESTROYING threats was a way better direction that they fricked up in Legion.
I understand WotLK needed it simply because the LKs implied power level in ToT and for the sake of completing that story arc but it was unnecessary for everything else, especially shit like Deathwing.
>Fricked up in Legion
TBC, actually. I meant TBC.
That kind of threat progression made sense to me. Hell, even in Vanilla there were world destroying threats. They just weren't so overtly harped on in marketing. Ragnaros, Onyxia, and Neffarion and his Black Dragonflight were all existential threats to all of Azeroth. But they didn't get hyped up like later baddies in later xpacs.
Rag just wanted to return home. Onyxia just wanted to subjugate. Nef just wanted to create the ultimate Dragon race.
Wasn't ragnaros going to destroy the world in Vanilla? It was at least implied. Besides, Vanilla also had an old God threatening to unleash his insect horde on the world and the scourge. Vanilla being about adventurers is bullshit.
>Vanilla being about adventurers is bullshit.
I'd say it was a healthy balance. From 1-40ish you're mostly dealing with local threats to individual kingdoms. Once you get your mount and beyond the quest lines begin to coalesce into apocalyptic threats like Rag or Nef
>Wasn't Rag going to destroy the world in Vanilla
I don't remember this at all
>Wasn't C'thun going to ravage the world with his insect army
Kalimdor maybe, but I can't remember how much of that was later retcons as old god lore developed.
Final fantasy 14 fricking killed and rape wow so fricking hard that nobody takes that shit game serious. Like famous actor and people with relevancy in the world are playing ff14 over wow. You lost the mmo war and i am so happy for it.
>Poopsocket
I thought it was poop sock, as in people who shit in socks during a raid?
it is
because was THE subscription service in 2000s. Before of Netflix or Spotify. Literally every U.S household wanted pay the Wow subscription
Classic Wow was the most optimized game in their time, was enough fine in a generic Desktop Dell with a weak graphic graphic, 1GB of ram and Pentium 4.
why do people on Ganker hate raids?
Ganker = no friends and social anxiety. Not suited for games that require group play and coordination.
It's a job, without the wage
but raids are completed in less than 2 hours and then you are free to do whatever you want throughout the week?
Raiding is just one rung up from being a speedrun troon
Everything about the game suffers when you try and please people who's only goal is to make numbers increase instead of having a good time
show me your parse. lmao I bet you are a shitter that just wants to be carried
The line between keeping them fun and turning them into a tiresome event is very very thin.
If someone is playing a singleplayer game and loses, they can scoff it off or eventually give up and quit for a bit.
Now imagine losing for reasons that 100% not your fault, due to the incompetence of another person, in an event that took quite a bit of effort and time to coordinate.
When this becomes a factor, people start to place more incentives to NOT fail at the game, meaning everyone is vetted and constantly under pressure to perform at optimum.
It basically becomes a job, except you aren't getting paid. You're dealing with the same stresses people go through to get financial compensation, for something that is supposed to be escapism. That ultimately sucks, even muh hecking hardcore gays can't argue that the artificial competitive nature of it just sucks the fun out of everything and turns it into a job.
Maybe if top raiding was an esport they'd have an argument, but ultimately even 10 man raiding became a stressful joke.
I'm a firm believer that 5 people in a team scenario is a sweet spot, especially given it takes less time to coordinate and competition becomes less.
raids were fun in classic when they were the end of a long plotline that started early in game with a boss that is believably worthy of needing 40 people to kill like Onyxia. As opposed to characters like Jaina or Sylvanas that are "raid bosses" for no apparent reason
I kind of see what you mean in the sense that they could have reserved only really big monster type bosses to require 25-40 people but otherwise the incentive on large group encounters always had this flaw of quickly becoming unfun if not everyone was playing optimum.