>And the m&k is more... ergonomic
No it isn't you stupid homosexual. The keyboard layout puts way more strain on your hands and tendons than a controller does, and overusing a mouse is bound to cause some form of arthritis. I wouldn't argue that a controller's design is necessarily perfect, but not being bound to messing with objects on a flat surface is far more intuitive.
>"only x is y" >know perfectly well there are autists on this very website who argue otherwise >"t-that doesnt count"
tried to leave Ganker to escape batshit morons who do mental gymnastics and yet still, here we are with you continuing the trend of making shit up to conveniently put on your personal boogeyman
Stfu dysgenic c**t and go back to Ganker. You haven't contributed to the discussion in any way except whining when I hit back after he swung first.
>"only x is y" >know perfectly well there are autists on this very website who argue otherwise >"t-that doesnt count"
tried to leave Ganker to escape batshit morons who do mental gymnastics and yet still, here we are with you continuing the trend of making shit up to conveniently put on your personal boogeyman
Actually it's the other way around. Only bugmen care more for "efficiency" rather than form.
Use both? I use mouse and keyboard for pretty much every game except souls like and god of war. Just feels more natural using a controller. Mouse and keyboard is better for FPS and MMO's.
No?
I guess you could reassign the mouse buttons to keys, but why the frick would you?
And you'd still need to use the mouse to move the camera anyway. I don't think there were keybinds for that.
I'm pretty sure I didn't need to rebind anything, camera movement was probably on PgUp/PgDn/Home/End, but it has been like 10 years, so my memory isn't 100% reliable.
>it has been like 10 years
Actually I just realized that you're likely talking about ptde, I only played remastered.
It might well be like you remember.
instead of spouting copium im going to say i did, because while i enjoyed the game, an experience in which you only kill things and talk to teleporting npcs who all die at the end of their convoluted fetch quests to reveal headcanon-bait single paragraphs of text as "the story" was not at all the monumental adventure its claimed to be.
almost 20 years into its niche genre and the Souls series hasnt progressed further than telling half a vague story for tumblr fandom-tier autists to ramble over in online groups. the iconography and art is great but thats not all storytelling and gameplay is- which a director who openly admitted he was inspired by "not knowing how to read english when engaging in fantasy literature" would not understand.
These games have never given a shit about storytelling you moron.
>>well they never le cared so you shouldn't have any expectation at all for Fromsoft to grow as a developer and start spitting out actual games because (we) will wienersuck them regardless
you should unironically consider death.
dont hate him because hes a moron, its just another "well im coping so you should cope too" argument >x was never y so why does it matter >nobody does x because of y because everyone knows the y is shit >is you expected x to be y youre an idiot
if you enjoy one aspect of a thing, if youre an asbsolute spastic you expect everyone to just want it to be the same forever and not get better- then they get offended when you say the next iteration was not better. its peak actual midwit arguments im sure youve heard before many times
DS lore is imo pretty great and it cleverly uses the medium it is, a video game, to tell it, using features of a video game and not trying to be a movie with game elements, like it's usually the case these days. It's ironic how Ganker autists will invent the most colorful headcanon for moviegames that do thorough loredumps but cannot use their imagination to make a story that's being told through gameplay elements come to life
The thing is, using our imagination is strictly equivalent to making mods. The original developer doesn't get points awarded because of my headcanon, and it's arguable whether making a setting that invites headcanon creation indicates good or bad worldbuilding.
I personally never found ds lore very satisfactory at all, but it didn't detract from the experience so whatever. Just give me a zwei and some lobbable spell, that's all I need to enjoy the ds formula.
7 months ago
Anonymous
thats why the games arguably get worse. despite having more "features". DeS and DaS are the zenith of mystery, to have kept doing the formula for another literal decade of games means a market has been created and it isnt necessarily just good on it own its just what people want and it turns out alot of Souls fans are shut in morons wholl argue for the rest of their lives over its quality
>And the m&k is more... ergonomic
No it isn't you stupid homosexual. The keyboard layout puts way more strain on your hands and tendons than a controller does, and overusing a mouse is bound to cause some form of arthritis. I wouldn't argue that a controller's design is necessarily perfect, but not being bound to messing with objects on a flat surface is far more intuitive.
[...]
Stfu dysgenic c**t and go back to Ganker. You haven't contributed to the discussion in any way except whining when I hit back after he swung first.
month late but suck a wiener, complaining about how "only bugmen value efficiency" is not a discussion you fat ugly moron. stop throwing a pissbaby tantrum just because someone called you out and "he started it >:(" u limpwrist c**t
The problem is, the environmental storytelling only works if you have a second to pause and understand what you just picked up and where.
In Ds3 you pick up a Divine Brail tome that can only be read by a blind person, next to a ring of a guy that happens to be the protector of a blind girl. He calls her useless and a failure, but with that information we can deduce that he is purposely sabotaging the blind girl.
10/10 if you understand the context, and have a fricking moment to see what you picked up because you can get ambushed there and can't sort by newest item so you might miss some really fricking important context.
Enviromental storytelling is almost 100% better in games than dialogue, because it lets see the world, not be told the world. That said in a series where you can't fricking pause, that goes out the goddamn door.
I liked it a lot, but it wasn't as good as DS3. All the copy/paste bosses like the magma wyrm annoyed the hell out of me. I'll probably replay it once the DLC comes out.
I got pretty much exactly what I expected, but not what I hoped for. I don't know if that counts as 'falling for the hype.' I enjoyed it a lot, in any case. I've played through the game on about half a dozen characters.
I enjoyed it, frick you.
Could it have been much more? Did it have many flaws? Of course, but it was still a good time and the amount of hate Ganker has for it is weird and disproportionate.
>the amount of hate Ganker has for it is weird and disproportionate.
The amount of hate it gets is perfectly proportionate to how popular it is, which is about all you can ask of Ganker critics.
I have never seen a Ganker poster talk shit about this game who wasn't trolling. The average Gankertard thinks this game is the Second Coming of Christ.
bought it during steam summer sale despite me knowing beforehand that I will regret it. And I did.
I have buyer's remorse now. I liked other FromSoft games much much more.
Have you tried playing the game badly?
Every direction I go, there's something killing me, usually much bigger than me. I have to hunt around, constantly on the lookout, navigating the geography barring me from walking a straight line to where I want to go, dealing with a new threat around every corner.
It's truly the perfection of the Souls formula, adapted to an open world where Fromsoft's level design is increased in scale and spread out over a whole country. It's pure "prepare to die" old school Souls, the epitome of the concept, yet also new because of the added open world elements.
Amotsphere matters the most in a souls game, you are all wrong.
Getting lost in a dungeon with no HP, healing items not having a clue where you are, where your bonefire is etc... It was atmosphere all along. Gameplay was an afterthought. An important one but nevertheless an afterthought.
Demon's Souls and Dark Souls were the only good ones in the series. This is evident by the amount of AA games that tried to copy the "souls formula" without even understanding what it is. You know which games I am talking about? Maybe not? No, because nobody gave a shit about those.
Dark Souls 3 is an uninspired eyesore, with good gameplay. Dark Souls 2 has some unique problems of it's own that are outside of the scope of my post. And Elden Ring is a boss rush with some empty open world inbetween the bosses. It doesn't have a single good dungeon, not one area that peaked my interest in exploration. Fromsoft fell for the drooling normalgay meme that is le heckin open world.
Newer games improved the gameplay in some aspects but Dark Souls is still king.
This is the most accurate analysis of what makes Souls type games special. People think it's the gameplay/bosses because that's what they remember afterwards, but the consistent failure of "souls-likes" that have the same gameplay shows that this was never the full appeal. Gameplay is important to souls, but only to the extent that it helps the atmostphere. Because the gameplay is relatively slow for an action game and requires commitment (no animation cancelling), and death was punishing (in Demon's Souls and Dark Souls at least) players slow down and progress cautiously, they observe the environment closely because doing so increases their chances of success in gameplay, but they also end up paying attention to the world, lore, all the environmental details. Souls lore autists wouldn't be so common if the game was a fast paced character action game, they care about the lore because paying attention to it when they were playing helped them not get killed.
Elden Ring is a fundamental misunderstanding of how souls games work; checkpoints are everywhere so there is no tension, Torrent lets players avoid all combat in the open world, the map show players where everything is (there are no floating icons but anyone can still tell what is where), even in dungeons there are too many checkpoints, player actions have no consequences (many NPCs can't even be killed, respeccing is easy and common), there are fricking arrows on the map pointing which way to go in a game supposedly about exploration. It's ridiculous, I also enjoyed it at first and will admit I fell for the hype some, but it killed any interest in future souls games, I could excuse DS3 being so boring because development had already been started under the previous president of Fromsoft and it was easy money, but with ER it seems that Fromsoft either doesn't understand or doesn't care about the design of their own games.
>stuck without resources in dangerous area have to reach safety again
This is gameplay bro.
You're right that the souls' atmosphere is a much underrated reason for the series' success, but the shit you're talking about is gameplay.
You even indirectly admit it by saying that ds3 was bad atmo good gameplay, since it was most people's favourite.
And by saying that ds2 wasn't good in spite of good atmosphere because of "other" (aka the gameplay) problems.
Ds1 was the best souls, but let's not act like it had any worse a gameplay than the sequels. Ds3 being faster and letting you spam more rolls in a row isn't better gameplay.
This is the most accurate analysis of what makes Souls type games special. People think it's the gameplay/bosses because that's what they remember afterwards, but the consistent failure of "souls-likes" that have the same gameplay shows that this was never the full appeal. Gameplay is important to souls, but only to the extent that it helps the atmostphere. Because the gameplay is relatively slow for an action game and requires commitment (no animation cancelling), and death was punishing (in Demon's Souls and Dark Souls at least) players slow down and progress cautiously, they observe the environment closely because doing so increases their chances of success in gameplay, but they also end up paying attention to the world, lore, all the environmental details. Souls lore autists wouldn't be so common if the game was a fast paced character action game, they care about the lore because paying attention to it when they were playing helped them not get killed.
Elden Ring is a fundamental misunderstanding of how souls games work; checkpoints are everywhere so there is no tension, Torrent lets players avoid all combat in the open world, the map show players where everything is (there are no floating icons but anyone can still tell what is where), even in dungeons there are too many checkpoints, player actions have no consequences (many NPCs can't even be killed, respeccing is easy and common), there are fricking arrows on the map pointing which way to go in a game supposedly about exploration. It's ridiculous, I also enjoyed it at first and will admit I fell for the hype some, but it killed any interest in future souls games, I could excuse DS3 being so boring because development had already been started under the previous president of Fromsoft and it was easy money, but with ER it seems that Fromsoft either doesn't understand or doesn't care about the design of their own games.
>Gameplay is important to souls, but only to the extent that it helps the atmostphere >elden ring misunderstands how souls work because it changed the gameplay in a way that makes the atmosphere not work
Then you're basically saying the gameplay is the very foundation of souls and the atmosphere relies on it, dumbass.
>Dark Souls 3 >ninjaflip iframes as baseline, up to 70% equip load >also rolling now only costs 5 stamina >all those changes done so late in development they didn't have time to adjust the rolling animation to match >good gameplay
I can agree with some parts of your post, but what the frick man
No I will not play a game with a controller and the japs don't know how k&m works.Also not an RPG.
Controllers are more ergonomic.
Subhuman.
Actually it's the other way around. Only bugmen care more for "efficiency" rather than form.
But bugmen are primarily playing with controllers.And the m&k is more efficent and more ergonomic.
>And the m&k is more... ergonomic
No it isn't you stupid homosexual. The keyboard layout puts way more strain on your hands and tendons than a controller does, and overusing a mouse is bound to cause some form of arthritis. I wouldn't argue that a controller's design is necessarily perfect, but not being bound to messing with objects on a flat surface is far more intuitive.
Stfu dysgenic c**t and go back to Ganker. You haven't contributed to the discussion in any way except whining when I hit back after he swung first.
>"only x is y"
>know perfectly well there are autists on this very website who argue otherwise
>"t-that doesnt count"
tried to leave Ganker to escape batshit morons who do mental gymnastics and yet still, here we are with you continuing the trend of making shit up to conveniently put on your personal boogeyman
>I tried to escape Ganker by going to another Ganker board
You're very moronic.
Use both? I use mouse and keyboard for pretty much every game except souls like and god of war. Just feels more natural using a controller. Mouse and keyboard is better for FPS and MMO's.
KB+M is fine in From games.
Aside from that weird bullshit in DS2 with the intentional input delay lmao, what the frick were they thinking?
Wasn't KB+M literally just keyboard? At least that's how I remember playing DS1.
No?
I guess you could reassign the mouse buttons to keys, but why the frick would you?
And you'd still need to use the mouse to move the camera anyway. I don't think there were keybinds for that.
I'm pretty sure I didn't need to rebind anything, camera movement was probably on PgUp/PgDn/Home/End, but it has been like 10 years, so my memory isn't 100% reliable.
>it has been like 10 years
Actually I just realized that you're likely talking about ptde, I only played remastered.
It might well be like you remember.
instead of spouting copium im going to say i did, because while i enjoyed the game, an experience in which you only kill things and talk to teleporting npcs who all die at the end of their convoluted fetch quests to reveal headcanon-bait single paragraphs of text as "the story" was not at all the monumental adventure its claimed to be.
almost 20 years into its niche genre and the Souls series hasnt progressed further than telling half a vague story for tumblr fandom-tier autists to ramble over in online groups. the iconography and art is great but thats not all storytelling and gameplay is- which a director who openly admitted he was inspired by "not knowing how to read english when engaging in fantasy literature" would not understand.
7/10 not enough actual game
These games have never given a shit about storytelling you moron.
Souls heads always talk about how good the “Lore” is
Isn’t the lore just the statue with the big breasts?
Who plays a soul game for the story? Sure it's got some cool lore in it, but people play it for the gameplay.
Contrarianism. Same anon probably complains about games that are not souls for loredumping
>>well they never le cared so you shouldn't have any expectation at all for Fromsoft to grow as a developer and start spitting out actual games because (we) will wienersuck them regardless
you should unironically consider death.
dont hate him because hes a moron, its just another "well im coping so you should cope too" argument
>x was never y so why does it matter
>nobody does x because of y because everyone knows the y is shit
>is you expected x to be y youre an idiot
if you enjoy one aspect of a thing, if youre an asbsolute spastic you expect everyone to just want it to be the same forever and not get better- then they get offended when you say the next iteration was not better. its peak actual midwit arguments im sure youve heard before many times
>play it for the gameplay
This isn’t the fricking 80’s. Games have evolved way past Tetris and the entire package matter not just the gameplay
And games have suffered greatly because of that.
DS lore is imo pretty great and it cleverly uses the medium it is, a video game, to tell it, using features of a video game and not trying to be a movie with game elements, like it's usually the case these days. It's ironic how Ganker autists will invent the most colorful headcanon for moviegames that do thorough loredumps but cannot use their imagination to make a story that's being told through gameplay elements come to life
The thing is, using our imagination is strictly equivalent to making mods. The original developer doesn't get points awarded because of my headcanon, and it's arguable whether making a setting that invites headcanon creation indicates good or bad worldbuilding.
I personally never found ds lore very satisfactory at all, but it didn't detract from the experience so whatever. Just give me a zwei and some lobbable spell, that's all I need to enjoy the ds formula.
thats why the games arguably get worse. despite having more "features". DeS and DaS are the zenith of mystery, to have kept doing the formula for another literal decade of games means a market has been created and it isnt necessarily just good on it own its just what people want and it turns out alot of Souls fans are shut in morons wholl argue for the rest of their lives over its quality
month late but suck a wiener, complaining about how "only bugmen value efficiency" is not a discussion you fat ugly moron. stop throwing a pissbaby tantrum just because someone called you out and "he started it >:(" u limpwrist c**t
Then go play Tetris if gameplay is the only that matters. The rest of us will play real video games
The problem is, the environmental storytelling only works if you have a second to pause and understand what you just picked up and where.
In Ds3 you pick up a Divine Brail tome that can only be read by a blind person, next to a ring of a guy that happens to be the protector of a blind girl. He calls her useless and a failure, but with that information we can deduce that he is purposely sabotaging the blind girl.
10/10 if you understand the context, and have a fricking moment to see what you picked up because you can get ambushed there and can't sort by newest item so you might miss some really fricking important context.
Enviromental storytelling is almost 100% better in games than dialogue, because it lets see the world, not be told the world. That said in a series where you can't fricking pause, that goes out the goddamn door.
I liked it a lot, but it wasn't as good as DS3. All the copy/paste bosses like the magma wyrm annoyed the hell out of me. I'll probably replay it once the DLC comes out.
I got pretty much exactly what I expected, but not what I hoped for. I don't know if that counts as 'falling for the hype.' I enjoyed it a lot, in any case. I've played through the game on about half a dozen characters.
I enjoyed it, frick you.
Could it have been much more? Did it have many flaws? Of course, but it was still a good time and the amount of hate Ganker has for it is weird and disproportionate.
>the amount of hate Ganker has for it is weird and disproportionate.
The amount of hate it gets is perfectly proportionate to how popular it is, which is about all you can ask of Ganker critics.
I have never seen a Ganker poster talk shit about this game who wasn't trolling. The average Gankertard thinks this game is the Second Coming of Christ.
So, what about that pinocchio's game?
It's not made by From but they seem to follow the formula pretty closely, unlike most other copycats.
bought it during steam summer sale despite me knowing beforehand that I will regret it. And I did.
I have buyer's remorse now. I liked other FromSoft games much much more.
The only good game to come out within the last couple of years.
Have you tried playing the game badly?
Every direction I go, there's something killing me, usually much bigger than me. I have to hunt around, constantly on the lookout, navigating the geography barring me from walking a straight line to where I want to go, dealing with a new threat around every corner.
It's truly the perfection of the Souls formula, adapted to an open world where Fromsoft's level design is increased in scale and spread out over a whole country. It's pure "prepare to die" old school Souls, the epitome of the concept, yet also new because of the added open world elements.
No, since Bloodborne is the only game I like.
I just wish seamless co-op was part of the base game. Co-op was where a lot of the fun came for me
Amotsphere matters the most in a souls game, you are all wrong.
Getting lost in a dungeon with no HP, healing items not having a clue where you are, where your bonefire is etc... It was atmosphere all along. Gameplay was an afterthought. An important one but nevertheless an afterthought.
Demon's Souls and Dark Souls were the only good ones in the series. This is evident by the amount of AA games that tried to copy the "souls formula" without even understanding what it is. You know which games I am talking about? Maybe not? No, because nobody gave a shit about those.
Dark Souls 3 is an uninspired eyesore, with good gameplay. Dark Souls 2 has some unique problems of it's own that are outside of the scope of my post. And Elden Ring is a boss rush with some empty open world inbetween the bosses. It doesn't have a single good dungeon, not one area that peaked my interest in exploration. Fromsoft fell for the drooling normalgay meme that is le heckin open world.
Newer games improved the gameplay in some aspects but Dark Souls is still king.
This. Not that I don't enjoy all the Souls games, but nothing has ever topped DS1 for me. Haven't played BB all the way through.
This is the most accurate analysis of what makes Souls type games special. People think it's the gameplay/bosses because that's what they remember afterwards, but the consistent failure of "souls-likes" that have the same gameplay shows that this was never the full appeal. Gameplay is important to souls, but only to the extent that it helps the atmostphere. Because the gameplay is relatively slow for an action game and requires commitment (no animation cancelling), and death was punishing (in Demon's Souls and Dark Souls at least) players slow down and progress cautiously, they observe the environment closely because doing so increases their chances of success in gameplay, but they also end up paying attention to the world, lore, all the environmental details. Souls lore autists wouldn't be so common if the game was a fast paced character action game, they care about the lore because paying attention to it when they were playing helped them not get killed.
Elden Ring is a fundamental misunderstanding of how souls games work; checkpoints are everywhere so there is no tension, Torrent lets players avoid all combat in the open world, the map show players where everything is (there are no floating icons but anyone can still tell what is where), even in dungeons there are too many checkpoints, player actions have no consequences (many NPCs can't even be killed, respeccing is easy and common), there are fricking arrows on the map pointing which way to go in a game supposedly about exploration. It's ridiculous, I also enjoyed it at first and will admit I fell for the hype some, but it killed any interest in future souls games, I could excuse DS3 being so boring because development had already been started under the previous president of Fromsoft and it was easy money, but with ER it seems that Fromsoft either doesn't understand or doesn't care about the design of their own games.
>stuck without resources in dangerous area have to reach safety again
This is gameplay bro.
You're right that the souls' atmosphere is a much underrated reason for the series' success, but the shit you're talking about is gameplay.
You even indirectly admit it by saying that ds3 was bad atmo good gameplay, since it was most people's favourite.
And by saying that ds2 wasn't good in spite of good atmosphere because of "other" (aka the gameplay) problems.
Ds1 was the best souls, but let's not act like it had any worse a gameplay than the sequels. Ds3 being faster and letting you spam more rolls in a row isn't better gameplay.
>Gameplay is important to souls, but only to the extent that it helps the atmostphere
>elden ring misunderstands how souls work because it changed the gameplay in a way that makes the atmosphere not work
Then you're basically saying the gameplay is the very foundation of souls and the atmosphere relies on it, dumbass.
>Dark Souls 3
>ninjaflip iframes as baseline, up to 70% equip load
>also rolling now only costs 5 stamina
>all those changes done so late in development they didn't have time to adjust the rolling animation to match
>good gameplay
I can agree with some parts of your post, but what the frick man