Anyone think hate for ironic elements in (Western) VNs is overblown as of late?
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Anyone think hate for ironic elements in (Western) VNs is overblown as of late?
Anyone think hate for ironic elements in (Western) VNs is overblown as of late?
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Tip Your Landlord Shirt $21.68 |
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ironic weeb porn is the least of this guys worries if he hated ironic weebs
>noble eroge
typical english-only weeb
There's heaps of garbage on dlsite, it just doesn't make it to the english because of the language barrier.
No one's gonna bother translating, even doing a MTL if it fricking sucks in the first place.
Yeah
This is also true though
>noble eroge
Yeah my thoughts exactly, also a lot of other japanese stuff that doesnt make it to the west is complete dogshit.
Controverse opinion, some games got better with its localization, as the sterile and boring original Japanese script wouldn't be as memorable.
Of course the censoring that happens today is still awful.
For every show people can prop up as being improved in translation, there's hundreds with sloppy, subpar translations that also made deliberate changes that completely fricked it up. Someone'll gas up samurai pizza cats like it made anime worth watching and then sweep the rest of the shit of the era aside like it wasn't resting on the top of a pile of garbage.
>Take japanese work.
>Strip all meaning, subtext and themes.
>Fill it with cringy memes, plot holes and contradictions.
>After the fact, insult it by calling it devoid of depth, pulpy/trashy and immature and how people should read REAL (read: western) books.
>Even though it being like this in english is literally the fault of disingenuous westerners.
What's with this recent trend of cultural imperialism aimed at anime and manga?
Why do western companies keep butchering japanese media in the name of "localization", only to then complain it shit and lesser than western media because has no depth, after they themselves removed said depth?
>oh noes they removed the moronic joke about some kanji used in the wrong way and replaced it with a joke its ruined!
calm down davido-kun
>it's IMPOSSIBLE to translate japanese jokes without localization
you are here
>the cultural differences would have made the original text inappropriate
>the new joke is better
>the original sucks and was "dry" anyways
True kek
Just look at Persona 5 fans, they're on the last stage, if you don't like the dub more than the original you are the last samurai to them
I'm tired of discussing this, all I can say is I have learned enough Jap to play my games in Japanese and for me the Japanese scripts are often too boring and sterile, outside of some dirty talk that gets cut for the western audience.
Well, at least you jumped straight to the last step and skipped both of us the annoying song and dance.
For the same reason they keep butchering American media: Control. It is just an effort to bring and control the people under one chaotic ideology. It slowly appears to be growing long in the tooth, however. Hopefully by 2034 it has withered and we are onto a new, hopefully less destructive paradigm.
>Take japanese work.
>Strip all meaning, subtext and themes.
Depends who is translating it, Americans have no culture and do not understand subtext, they are better positioned to localise Korean art. Europeans, particularly France and the UK are better suited to localise Japanese work.
It’s some legal shit where Japanese companies cant do business outside JP so there needs to be a local company doing the importing but the local company will localize the product to how they think it would be most successful in their local market. The rise of internet piracy was what really exposed how much the localizers were changing the products because now we have access to the originals when it was much harder to get JP versions to compare with the NA version in 1999
>dlsite
lol . lmao even.
You pretender and charlatan.
>There's heaps of garbage on dlsite
This is true. But your post is still pretty garbage because intentionally or not, you're implying that it's equivalent to the western WEG scene.
And it just isn't.
Yes there is an ocean of shit on dlsite, dmm, and other Japanese platforms.
However if you go on dlsite and check the high ranking, or if you just sort by popularity or sales. You will find genuinely good games. Complete games too.
The western WEGs that are of quality and that are actually finished products. Can be counted on one hand.
If you search for WEGs you are just likely to find forever incomplete trash and or games made by people with no artistic or game design talent.
So while both have oceans of shit. The former actually have legitimate and good products in addition to the shit ocean. WEGs only have the shit ocean.
typing like a gay doesnt make him any less right. ironic weebs are a plague
This.
Genshin really shone a light on the amount of ironic weebs out there killing the culture.
Ironic veneer is an issue in general.
It's like people who make ugly characters in RPGs and frick around laughing at everything.
Agreed. Irony and satire have it's place, but when the general output is insincere and borderline parody the worth of a story or game cannot rise above "haha, it's all a joke". Depth of an experience will always be shallow if you don't take it seriously. If someone diesn't take anything seriously, it begs the question why this person is afraid of genuine thought and emotion.
This. Western media seems to have this awful post-ironic taint to it because if anyone insults your work you need a "w-well I wasn't being serious anyway you didn't get it" excuse to protect your ego.
How is anyone supposed to care about a story when the creators don't care about it?
It's been posited plenty of times that ironic veneers are just covers for people who are too afraid of being sincere or candid. When you're writing a novel or making a work of art as an example, you'll be putting yourself out there and you'll often times look like a 'dork' for it. But say people criticize your work or insult it because that's all people do anyways and you can use the deflection of it being a joke.
It's the main problem surrounding goyslop.
It's trying to be impressive without being vulnerable, and criticizing japanese media else for being vulnerable as a vehicle to be genuine.
You Black folk put sincerity on too much of a pedestal. Do you think Starfield and Fallout 4 are based because they weren't irony poisoned? Do you think it's sincere to hide behind playing cliched tropes straight? Eventually you're going to have to defend some absolute garbage that others are holding up as a shining example of sincerity, and you guys aren't going to like it.
>Eventually.
>fallout 4
>sincere
We went well past the point of ironic weeb homosexualry.
Ironic weebs were the homosexuals into the animays but only ironically, just watching it as a joke bro.
The kind of homosexual so indoctrinated by modern society to be ashamed of a hobby he enjoys but refuses to admit he enjoys.
No, we are now at the point there’s an actual agenda being pushed hard and fast, the same kind of homosexualry that happened with westoid vidya that turned them into soi boi slurpers, shilling garbage like dad of soi.
They are already trying to start the slippery slope.
>Wish-fulfillment, self-insert, escapism, and power fantasy bad.
>You will not have in depth romance or any romance at all, self-inserting bad.
>The MC will be a literal cuck that either avoids sex or gets all his girls stolen and fricked, because wish-fulfillment bad.
>The world will be a hell that shits on everyone to make you thankful over being a slave in modern earth, because escapism bad.
>You will not have your MC be a good role model, he will be a spineless jobber cuck, because power fantasy bad.
And then the other side of the coin.
>You will accept dykeshit and you will like it, self-inserting bad.
>You will accept an MC that becomes a wagiecuck in this new world, because escapism bad and power fantasy bad,
>You will accept a worthless loser that never wins as an MC, it's LE REFRESHING when the MC is a jobber cuck.
>You will accept MCs that go full troony and become girls, or female MCs, because that’s what REAL stories are all about.
>You will take the globohomosexual up the ass, and anyone that disagrees is just an incel/bigot/whatever.
>You will slurp the weebgoy slop, because japan bad, and only the west knows how to make good stuff.
Once you see the globohomosexual agenda you can't unsee it.
this is why you must take the kiseki pill
>No conformist homosexualry, you get cool dudes achieving great things as role models to improve yourself.
>No torture porn because westoids hate seeing anyone happy, you get normal struggles that end in triumph.
>No "subversive" slop either, you get a traditional hero's journey instead of slop trying to undermine human potential.
>No quippy marvelslop either, you will not get characters using a dozen layers of irony to detach themselves from people acting as role models.
>No goyporn or "safe horny" shit, on females you get tight clothing, short skirts, high heels, pantyshots, simple as.
>No fear of the twitter trannoids, you will get fanservice boob grabs, and you will like it.
>No wahman shit for that matter, female characters actually look and act feminine, even the ones intended to put a strong front.
>No dykeshit either trying to worm it's way through "just let the harem members get along goyim", females want to frick their male, simple as.
>No wasted budget on graphix forcing you to hire diversity morons, the games look only as good as they have to and nothing more.
>No control given to westoid homosexuals, aside from troonylations to pacify the morons, which nobody uses and anyone that cares already knows japanese or is learning.
>No rahlizhm shit, you get people teleporting behind you and agile giant mechs and you will like it.
>No mahtoor shit either, any actual adult will recognize the pathos behind the scenes and engage with them as intended instead of screeching how immature it is like a manchild.
>No le morally gray shit for that matter either, you will not have a "hero" justify genocide of the undesirabl- I mean "bad guys" only because "le system is too slow".
Falcom games and rean games in particular are one of the biggest anti-pozzled paragons in the industry right now.
So you bet your ass westoids are desperate to destroy it ASAP and that includes all discussion about it online.
>justify genocide of the undesirabl-
Does Rean actually ever kill anyone? I can remember like 2 instances, and 1 of them he didn't mean to do.
My one gripe with kisekigays are the ones who go on about “muh lore” and “muh worldbuilding.” Just accept that your game is wish fulfillment shit, you fricking Black folk.
no, seethe forever
even lotr and gay of thrones gets utterly buckbroken by something you consider "wish fulfillment shit" without even putting in any effort, that's how good kiseki is
You’re a stupid homosexual. I don’t have anything against wish fulfillment, I even like a lot of it, but don’t try to pretend kiseki isn’t exactly what it is.
Wish fulfillment and worldbuilding aren't mutually exclusive you moron.
Show me 1 good work of fiction that is shameless wish fulfillment.
persona 3
Persona 3 wasnt good because of the wish fullfiment things though, it was literally only good because of the other characters and the ending where the MC acts completely unlike a self insert and his role is the antithesis of a self insert. In fact having the MC has a silent protagonist with no personality is literally the weakest part of the game.
>Dying for a grater good while being surrounded by people who love you isn't wish fulfilment
Are you a woman? Dying like that is the dream way out for men
true, nobody sucks your dick in P3 from the get go (unlike in P4/P5)
>and the ending where the MC acts completely unlike a self insert and his role is the antithesis of a self insert.
hes literally the messiah who saves the world because of his harem of friends
>In fact having the MC has a silent protagonist with no personality is literally the weakest part of the game.
I agree although P3 is the only Persona game where it makes sense for him to be a silent protag since his dialogue options (and later the movie) paint him as apathetic and antisocial
Cardcaptor Sakura
cardcaptor sakura is not wish fullfilment
It's literally wish fulfillment for little girls.
having a best friend who has a massive lesbian crush on you film you so that she can shlick to you every single night is wish fulfillment for little girls?
Yes
Mushoku Tensei
Yes, you can have worldbuilding in wish fulfillment, but not well done worldbuilding. Realistic and believable worldbuilding requires that things be realistic and believable. Now, you could argue that worldbuilding doesn’t require realism, but then, what is good worldbuilding? How can an incoherent world be be good worldbuilding?
Let me guess, you think 99% of video games have bad worldbuilding?
No, I don’t. I understand what you’re trying to say, but the parts of kiseki that aren’t believable aren’t the things that make most videogames unbelievable. The parts that are unbelievable in kiseki are the story and the lore.
post what you think has good worldbuilding
say lotr and i will laugh at you like you deserve
I won’t, but I will say that, as somebody who does not like lotr, it is far more believable than kiseki. Of course, you’re obviously welcome to like it regardless of whether or not the worldbuilding is good or bad, in fact, the worldbuidling being unbelievable is very much why it is wish fulfillment.
You can have realistic wish fulfillment tho
Critics who treat 'adult' as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence. And in childhood and adolescence they are, in moderation, healthy symptoms. Young things ought to want to grow. But to carry on into middle life or even into early manhood this concern about being adult is a mark of really arrested development. When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.
Where the frick did i mention the term adult or mature in my post? Literally nowhere, i know this is a copy pasta but jesus christ you homosexuals are pathetic.
>You will accept an MC that becomes a wagiecuck in this new world, because escapism bad and power fantasy bad,
>You will accept a worthless loser that never wins as an MC, it's LE REFRESHING when the MC is a jobber cuck.
>You will accept MCs that go full troony and become girls, or female MCs, because that’s what REAL stories are all about.
which games do these happen? serious question.
it's literal Ganker pasta about "subversive" isekai
i don't know what the frick is that doing here
or at least it would be off-topic if snoyman 2 didn't have peter be an emasculated wagiecuck that jobbed to a fridge
>Wish-fulfillment, self-insert, escapism, and power fantasy bad.
>You will not have in depth romance or any romance at all, self-inserting bad.
This is true though
Imagine being on Ganker talking that escapism and power fantasy is bad, literally every game is that one way or another
>You will accept dykeshit and you will like it, self-inserting bad
>You will accept MCs that go full troony and become girls, or female MCs, because that’s what REAL stories are all about.
Yuri, genderbend and female MCs have all been part of otaku culture for decades, you moronic ironic weeb.
Wish fullfilment self inserting is bad and literally nothing good has ever come from it. It is the literal antithesis of creativity. Can you imagine if Tolkien decided to shoehorn an overpowered self insert into his works that just completely trivialized the struggles the characters go through? Frick off and die homosexual self inserting is the type of shit that tumlbr fanfics are full of. You have no idea what actual creativity of good story telling is, you are also too fricking autistic to empathize with a character who isnt just a blank slate that you can project your pathetic little wish fulfilment fantasies onto.
I don't think it's inherently bad. You can have a good story but with some wish fulfillment elements.
Also, not every VN needs to be a story telling masterpiece. Some of it just needs to make the player feel good.
Good stories and wish fulfillment games can coexist
Sounds like whiny gatekeepy nerd stuff. VNs were always subversive and had some ironic/joke elements, and those were the funniest portions in there because you didn't expect it in serious VNs.
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Additionally, most VN were never played straight. There's always a twist that keeps it interesting from start to finish. People like Nitroplus for it.
and here it comes the westoid cope trying to muddle the waters
I love Japanese VNs and hate most western VNs, not for being ironic but for being unrealistic in writing and storytelling. I didn't like Katawa Shouljo and Snoot Game because it felt that they were written by geeks.
Class of 09 is different because a geek makes fun of himself while embracing the tropes commonly seen in VNs.
>a geek makes fun of himself
This has become the biggest red flag for me over the last decade. Self-deprecation is not cool anymore.
You have to be real about this, you shouldn't be proud for just consuming stuff. The authors who bulk sell products are not going to care if you died as a "dedicated gatekeeper/fan", if anything they (or their investors) will be relieved because they have no one scaring off potential customers anymore.
You're a customer, not a cultist.
>taking an anime through axe wound surgery, sprinking in some pisscorder in-jokes recorded in "gamer" headsets is making "fan anime"
you're just as bad as the troonylators writing fanfics instead of translating that think they are actual game devs
you will never be a real anime director
you will never be a real game dev in any game that matters
Does it matter? They're making their own games and you still have a beef with it. Ot is funny that you complain about
I dont really care about stuff turning "woke" honestly. If it were the same it wouldn't be good at all.
>They're making their own games
we are talking about troonylators and abridged parodies anon
>you shouldn't be proud for just consuming stuff
I'm not.
>The authors who bulk sell products are not going to care if you died as a "dedicated gatekeeper/fan"
Not relevant to anything I'm saying.
Investors will be happy about anything if that brings money, to you a franchise turning super woke is okay since it brings money to the investors?
>The authors who bulk sell products are not going to care if you died as a "dedicated gatekeeper/fan", if anything they (or their investors) will be relieved because they have no one scaring off potential customers anymore.
Your opinion on microtransactions?
>but what does that have to-
Answer the question.
Ironic anything is annoying and homosexualy to people actually into the thing.
He is a gay, but I'd take a genuine up his own ass weeb over an ironic weeb any day.
Reminds me of that one guy who b***hed about the Azur Lane skin not too long ago
What a homosexual
This and
OP speaks like a gay but he's right. Ironic weebs are people who like anime but are ashamed of it, and try to hide under layers of irony to avoid criticism from their normalgay peers. The only games they feel they can enjoy openly are ironic western parodies like Doki Doki Literature Club, Class of 2009, etc. They inevitably try to "westernize" Japanese media so they can enjoy it unashamedly.
i dont understand the point he's trying to make
is he calling out fake weebs that are just incels that jerk to anime or wegs like summer saga or whatever the name was
or that these people are such a significant part of the market that they force nip devs to adopt western styles to compete, leading to inferior products?
Ever seen DDLC? BaalBuddy's drawings? That "class of 09" or whatever it's called?
He is talking about those things.
I think it's rather ironic that weeaboos nowadays are looking at Western VNs the same way that the rest of the world looks at Japanese VNs. Guys who went "guys not all Japanese VNs are shitty hentai dating sims there's some good ones around here too" now can't extend that same leeway to Western VNs. This surely won't backfire in the future when the whole irony fad dies out.
>Guys who went "guys not all Japanese VNs are shitty hentai dating sims there's some good ones around here too"
those are literally the people that make those irony VNs
that thought process is the single most harmful thing to a nerd community that could ever exist. It is not normalgays who kill a hobby. It is the failed normalgays who desperately plead "p-p-please give it a chance I swear not all of us are weird!"
Gatekeeping means bullying these people into silence before it's too late. Always remember that.
This.
Zero tolerance policy.
Failed normalcucks deserve nothing.
>those are literally the people that make those irony VNs
Because it's what gets attention, both from redditors and ragebaiting people like you. There's over a thousand non-ironic Western VNs on itch.io or whatever that range from horror to humor or drama or porn to what else have you which are each made for a target audience of about a 100 people. Same thing with that Adventures of Andy and Leyley before that exploded in popularity.
And just like irony VNs get most of the attention in the west, so it is VNs with tropey cliche H-scenes that get attention in Japan who view VNs mostly as a vehicle for porn. Just look at what's top selling DLsite.
What I'm saying is, it took people several years to sift through all that garbage to find the real gems, translate them, and then make them known in the Western sphere. Ironically it is because of gatekeeping that Westerners have such a skewed and limited view of VNs; had VN enthusiasts spent more effort in making known the hidden gems they most likely wouldn't be in this predicament. When you yourself refuse to be the spokesperson for your own genre , someone else invariably will, and whatever falsehoods they spout are the consequences your inert ass will have to keep living with.
Someone will inevitably do the same for all those Western VNs being made on itch.io, find those that aren't actually le irony poisoned, while people here will reflexively dismiss any Western VNs because of muh irony well up to 2030.
>Because it's what gets attention
And it getting attention is what influences culture, you dumbfrick.
>ragebaiting
Let me guess, your solution is "just ignore it bro and it'll go away bro bro bro".
>Ironically it is because of gatekeeping that Westerners have such a skewed and limited view of VNs; had VN enthusiasts spent more effort in making known the hidden gems they most likely wouldn't be in this predicament
This betrays your standing. You think the things that became known are bad and thus "gave a bad reputation". Maybe the things being called bad...aren't actually bad, and that's what the "ragebaiters" are trying to get across. Ever thought about that?
DDLC comes from a paper-thin understanding of galge, but unlike baaltroony or Pippa and Pippa adjacent edge-slop, it actually respects the material it lifts from. I don't think it deserves to be lumped together with the rest.
What did the rabbit do to you?
NTAYRT but in that case frick him. He's a moron unable to accept artists naturally build styles and themes off the last previous theme.
To be fair, I'm not a huge VN guy (I prefer videogames) but without meta-recognition of the tropes of the genre you'd never get Steins:gate. He wants enforced baby mode for everyone, instead of growth into new types of stories and markets.
There is a difference between acknowledgement and mockery. Mockers always pretend they are the former when called out.
The difference is that one had more work put into it and is better written. If you want to take meta-genre knowledge out of VNs you don't get to say
>but actually the top 1% are good so we're gonna keep those and pretend they arent ironic or subversive
Is the argument that more of the 'ironics' are bad, a greater proportion of them? My personal solution would be to not consume the shitty ones. I repeat: railing against the whole genre because it's harder to do well is like complaining about oil paintings because its more difficult to get right than a pencil sketch.
It makes the entire fanbase come off like infants
> If you want to take meta-genre knowledge out of VNs
who said that
>to not consume the shitty ones
Name the supposed non-shitty ones.
It doesnt matter if you want to pretend it isn't, steins:gate is filled with irony and subversions. MC assaults a quantum chick/dude and the scene is drenched in dramatic irony
This is a little too esl for me to parse. I'm going to take a stab at it though:
You think modern books aren't good?
Thats fine. I think some are low quality, and survivorship bias makes idiots think everything written in earlier periods was top tier. Some writers are better, some use themes or messages that will be relevant in the future; others don't.
At the end of this chain all I can say is you both seem kinda dumb. You should consume non-VN media for a bit to broaden horizons.
I also find it telling that you don't use images on an imageboard. Perhaps reddit is more your style?
>Verification not required.
Why did you reply to me if what you said has nothing to do with my post? My post was very short and easy to understand.
Since neither of you seem willing to consider other viewpoints, I think Im done after this post. Maybe if you post a good meme?
Because you write at a 6th-8th grade level. None of the sentences in your last post were entirely grammatically correct, so I had to make guesses. Please read more (english, if you want to post in english)
Im just pointing out your hypocrisy. You rail against ironic VNs but when confronted with a good ironic VN you have to defend it and are forced to slice it out of the group. Your appeal to anime cred means nothing when your argument boils down to "I get to make the catagories, I like the authentic japanese works. I do not like the ironic VNs. I will not elaborate!" It's troony logic
>Im just pointing out your hypocrisy. You rail against ironic VNs but when confronted with a good ironic VN you have to defend it and are forced to slice it out of the group. Your appeal to anime cred means nothing when your argument boils down to "I get to make the catagories, I like the authentic japanese works. I do not like the ironic VNs. I will not elaborate!" It's troony logic
I am not the person you were talking to, again lurk more newbie not everyone who replies to you is going to be the same person. I love Steins gate
>None of the sentences in your last post were entirely grammatically correct, so I had to make guesses
All because I didn't use question marks for comedic effect? lmao
>authentic japanese works cant be filled with irony and self aware
Hello secondary who only got into anime in the 2000s.
That's like a reader saying that books are bad since majority of them are trash
Just looks like there's a lot of good ones because books are old as shit so even if only one good book launched a year there would be still lots of good ones to read untill you die
>Just looks like there's a lot of good ones because
because Gankergays don't actually read books, they just circlejerk the same 2-3 authors forever
very much like ironic weebs mind you
imagine unironically comparing steins:gate to the subhuman shit brought up in this thread and acting like they come from the same thought process
DDLC is one of the better ones though because most of the game indulges on the tropes.
People just think of the wacky 4th wallbreaks but forget they spend most of the game spending time with the girls and their romances. Hell, there's even an extra ending if you do them all, Sayori thanks you and hopes you come visit their game again.
Do you think a western game would care so much about anime tropes or characters?
>care so much about anime tropes or characters?
What anime tropes did DDLC care about exactly?
Western tend to know only one female personality and it shows in their media.
All the girls are the usual Tsudere, Genki, Dandere, Monikadere you see in Japanese media with minor twists that usual get attached for story reasons.
The creator could have just made them the usual western slop and then belated at the player that their 2D waifu ain't real and to treat women better during the 4th wall break.
And than Monika could had be a strong power girl and saved the others from their sexist torture and have hot lesbian sex with each one of them.
That's how I see unironic western weebs make stuff anyway.
>BaalBuddy
I don't understand how BaalBuddy is considered an "Ironic weeb" when the majority of his stuff is western fantasy and western fantasy tropes. Shit like WH40K, D&D, and using a style that's mostly reminiscent of 80's Fantasy art, with only a bit of Anime influence.
Now and again he'll make a Japanese joke but 90% of his content is western properties. Calling him an "Ironic weeb" is just being angry about nothing.
Perhaps he himself is not an ironic weeb but his audience 100% is. You yourself pointed it out, why do you think he makes those Japanese jokes when all his other stuff is so non-Japanese? Because his audience loves those jokes.
>Perhaps he himself is not an ironic weeb
nah he is, he constantly makes goysona 5 references in his shitty images, everything looks like a WEG female, and the art style itself looks like an abortion between MHA and calarts
Because jokes don't have borders. If it's popular fantasy media he just goes for it. It's not that difficult to comprehend. To get angry at BB of all people for "Ruining the integrity of Japanese Enjoyers" is just reaching. The guy takes the piss out of western and eastern all the same.
This guy sounds like an absolute homosexual, but ironic weebs are worse, they're equivalent to trannies in the "anime community"
No it's not. It is extremely underblown.
Just like hate for localizers. You don't hate them enough. Not nearly.
He's right
>Wondered what this thread was about.
>Read the post
Still glad I left anime in 2010.
Kind of pretentious, but he's right.
shitting dick nipples japs have no right to talk down on anyone else's porn, or for that matter anyone's post-irony or whatever the frick it's called these days
Most of these guys going on about muh irony and muh sincerity were very likely posting massive ironygays posting MLG, poorly drawn MSPaint trollfaces and Shrek memes around 2014. A lot of people at the time were; ironic memes were a response to the vapid and embarrassing "sincerity" of redditors. There's a reason shit like "epic" and "your reddit gold, sir" turned into phrases that are only used mockingly nowadays and there's a reason irony took such a hold in internet culture.
Only now that redditors have taken a hold of irony, do you have contrarians like the one in OP going on about "muh sincerity". Ironically they're not being sincere about their sincerity, they're only doing it because being ironic is cringe now, just like being sincere back then was cringe. Most likely they feel some kind of remorse for their past ironyposting and are trying to fit in their current crowd with their muh sincerity shit. I guess it's like troll's remorse, but for people who used to be huge ironygays.
>he doesn't REALLY mean it
Do you?
If you can't even admit that stuff like Class of 09, something that's spiritually on par with what you'd play on Newgrounds around 2009, has some funny moments because you have such a stick up your arse about irony then yes, the hate is just performative at that point.
Nothing encapsulates "ironic weeb" more than Doki Doki Literature Club: a game made by a guy who neither likes nor knows anything about dating sims or visual novels past their most superficial stereotypes, and refuses to admit he lifted the concept from a game that was already well-known in the English-speaking sphere even before it was translated. Altogether perfect for the audience of morons it was targeting.
dan salvato played and enjoyed tsukihime
>dan salvato played and enjoyed THE pretentious ironic weeb VN, even more so than 07shit
K E K
E K E
K E K
Is that supposed to be a counter or something? Look at the fricking "fanbase" anything related to Type Moon has. Infested with ironic weebs.
>look up the guys twitter
>hes an ironic weeb
every time
You mean the guy in the image? What does the image have to do with ironic weebery?
>dude i've been a weeb since early 2022 i'm not an ironic weeb at all. now let me tell you about REAL japanese visual novels
I have no idea what you're trying to say
Knew that this seething was about Class of 09. He doesn't really care about "irony or subversion", he got really mad at the Jeffrey character being bullied for liking anime and felt that he was attacked because of his hobbies.
i think class of 09 stands up on its own. it's not meant to be a JP VN pastiche. are japs the only ones allowed to make VNs because that's what i'm getting from these tweets.
>it's not meant to be a JP VN pastiche
Hard to believe that with a description that says "anime girl" twice.
>fake anime artstyle
>"anime girl" in description
>"it's not a dating sim, it's a REJECTION sim"
Anon.
The dude is crowdfunding an "anime" of it. It is very much a pastiche.
>ironic weebs devolved into being pastiche grifters
the absolute state
bro angry his country has been shitting out childish media for the past 4 decades and is surprised the western imitation is cringe to look at
Honestly I just don't know how people get off to gobbos.
Irony is the wit's end
Modern western people themselves are spiritually and intellectually kneecapped, largely unable to perceive the value of art and literature beyond potential partisan political signaling.
Decades of marxist programming and ктo кoгo bullshit in academia has turned people into hollow shells.
Every single JP -> EN TL is injected with some combination of bitterness, resentment and irony that not in the original text, this is only extended further and doubled down on games that the westoids themselves make, and let's be real here, it's only natural to be disgusted by it because it's your uncanny valley instinct kicking in, similarly to how you can instantly tell if something is asiatic or chink 99% of the time you can easily tell when it's goyjin slop, because it's a mockery of otaku media from people that only engage with it in the most superficial things possible, goynime is a calarts skinwalker trying to fit in with fellow humans.
Western mindset is too limited, nobody in USA, Europe, Mexican American or Africa can create "Garage: Bad Dream", VN dating sims or just Mario-Kirby-Zelda, it's always games with first-person where your shoot things
name of game?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garage_(video_game)
its on steam for about $20
We used to bully these people
They still get bullied.
By people who go by they/them who will call them chud nazis, and YOU will be lumped right alongside them the second you utter the word "troony". Welcome to the new world.
KEN-SAMA
WON
thats not him though
Yes it is.
The guy in the pic on the right has said it wasn't him.
I wake up every morning praying to have a 10th if his success.
>Lost weight
I kneel, Ken-sama.
No because it's not funny, it comes across as self-conscious which really takes you out of the story and it's in fricking 90% of them.
Just be a VN. Don't publish your first draft - being completely self-indulgent is half the reason to do a VN in the first place. And there's nothing wrong with kinetic VNs. Routes are dangerous, you're going to have enough trouble writing one satisfying path.
The reputation for western VNs is so bad at this point that "people who don't read VNs looking for a gimmick buy" might seem like their only market left, but if you make a solid thriller, adventure or horror there's an audience.
Don't make or parody dating sims.
>noble eroge
good joke almost thought it's a serious opinion
>reddit filename
It makes sense that someone like you would get offended by his words.
eroge
What a moron. Every eroge is pretty much the same
>Twitter user
>no clue whatsoever
Ironic weebs are barely a blip on the radar when the modern community is filled with tertiaries that aren't even interested in actual anime: they just watch anime r34 and anime memes, they don't even bother looking up the summary on wikipedia, that's the level of engagement that's prevalent nowadays.
>Ironic weebs are barely a blip on the radar when the modern community is filled with [proceeds to describe textbook ironic weeb behavior].
>twisting definitions until they are no longer useful
>they just watch anime r34 and anime memes
I remember talking to a guy that only watched abridged series and I don't even know how to describe the experience. I guess it was like trying to discuss an entire novel with a guy that only read a wikipedia summary with some bad jokes inserted occasionally. It was pretty much as if we were "discussing" two different shows.
That's a secondary, at least he watched a series.
watching an axe wound version on youtube doesn't count as actually watching a series
neither does watching video essays about it because you're too lazy to watch/play the media yourself
>watching a bad series doesn't count as watching a series
This isn't an actual issue.
>neither does watching video essays about it
This is the actual issue.
Interacting with the media type directly = good.
Interacting with the media type only through indirect means = bad.
Someone playing only bootleg vidya/fanmade levels/mods is a gamer, someone only watching essays on vidya is not a gamer.
anon, an abridged parody is even worse than a video essay
the real problem is ironic weebs have been in the entry level for a literal decade and counting
>fanmade anime that doesn't please my tastes is a worse anime than a non-anime video
>fanmade games that don't please my tastes are less of a game than a non-interactive video
Now you're being moronic.
>Unironically defending abridged goyslop.
Lmfao.
>Gets entire culture subverted by Korean and Chinese gacha
The Japs lost, I'm not listening to anything they have to say about others seriously
kek
>Crying about the game I hate for reminding me the franchise I tricked myself into thinking isn't anime is an anime one
Just say Fire Emblem fans kek
And xenoblade "fans".
And pokemon "fans".
And yugioh "fans".
And final fantasy "fans".
And... You get the point.
>praising gacha shit
The Japanese do this themselves so I don't get how this is "ironic" when mobile shit is a serious market in south east asia as a whole.
>WEG
>uses BG3 as an example
BG3 is not an erotic game and every time somebody tries to describe the game as such it's a clear indicate that not only have they not played the game, they haven't even done the bare minimum of looking at a short playthrough. Not even sure what this has to do with shit being too anime other than WRPG vs JRPG threads which are their own brand of autism.
I dont remember women in leotards in any western game, no in BG3 itself. It's always in japanese games where leotards exist or can peek under her skirts
What the frick is the Final Fantasy video doing there?? Nothing in it is remotely related to the rest of the image
>people defending being irony poisoned on Ganker
This is equivalent to saying you love fallout but only ever had played 3 hours of New Vegas and don't even know fallout was a top-down rpg
I don't think there's anything fundamentally wrong with western VNs. I've found some pretty good ones. The issue is the ironic "not a typical dating sim" ones, which are less an "ironic weeb" thing, and more a general case of people trying to cynically subvert and parody a genre that they don't enjoy or understand. It happens to a lot of things, like the original The Boys comic (superheroes as written by someone who despises the concept of superheroes). It's a pervasive issue.
Because modern westoid society has psyop'd itself into thinking that being happy is wrong and that before you're allowed to be happy you need to eat broken glass cornflakes while also getting nails jammed under your nails.
no
american culture has an allergy to sincerity now
if it's sincere or heartfelt but isn't some screed about tankie politics, it's immediately "cringe" or "fascist"
as if wanting a family, a partner against the rest of the world, or even simply celebrating the Normal Rockwell-style Christmas all real people want is bad
I hate my country
I hate the dominant western culture now
This country deserves all the bad things that are going to happen to it soon
That is one thing westoid games really can't recreate
They always have several layers of sarcasm and cynicism to everything that completely takes you out of the experience
Westoid devs are afraid of "playing it straight", when you hear them talk about it in interviews they talk about the concept as if it was overdone by everyone in the industry but when you look at their games almost no one actually goes through with it, yet they cling to this narrative so desperately because they think doing things normally is somehow "immature".
Japanese games can be unabashedly edgy, sugar sweet, deeply emotional and so much more that the west can't because the commitment to it scares them
>Anyone think hate […] is overblown as of late?
Yes
Porn
>:(
Porn: Japanese
:O
correct
>Porn: Japanese
:O,
>ironic weeb
What does this buzzword mean. I keep seeing it and and in concept it doesn't make sense. Why would someone like anime ironically, or rather how do you like it ironically. You either like it or you dont, you either have some interest in it or you dont. I need someone to explain the internet definition of irony, its thrown around and used so much I dont even think grabbing a 1995 dictionary will help me.
This makes no sense. How does using doujin sites, buying manga make someone ironic? What the hell did the platelet do?
pretty much this
I've always seen different definitions for ironic weebs. I remember being told that playing Neptunia or Atelier or Senran Kagura made someone an ironic weeb, even if they were being totally sincere.
they were the entry level series of it's age anon, that's the point
even more so when troonylations to english have been official abridged parodies pretty much since the beginning of vidya
>entry level series of it's age
Fair enough, but doesn't everybody have to start somewhere?
Don't consider me a scholar on what exactly it means to be an 'ironic weeb' but I think it's difficult to describe it accurately unless you've actually met one. I would say it's generally people who have some surface level connection to weebdom and Jap culture, so they obsess over hentai pictures, vtubers, hang out in weeb spaces, but then ask what anime they actually like and you get the fluoride stare or hear them mumble 'k-konosuba'. Then they go off to talk about how weird the Japanese are and how 'trap' is actually a problematic slur.
or they think you're a normalgay so they try to hide their power level.
It indicates people who enjoy weeb shit but, for whatever reason, are not sincere about why they enjoy weeb shit.
It's the anime equivalent of someone claiming to watch gay porn for the plot.
>Eventually you're going to have to defend some absolute garbage
>Eventually
>implying
Rofl
>I love Final Fantasy
>Which one do you like the most?
>Which one?
>Yeah, there's 16 besides tons of spin-offs
>I only ever watched the movie and seen memes about it
>You aren't a fan then
>I'm a fan like everyone else, who the hell are you to decide if I'm a fan or not? Go take a shower, touch grass and have sex
its literally just a buzzword boogeyman that means nothing, just look at the disparity between
and
the one thing in common by people that believe in this term is that upheld everything Japan on a pedestal ("noble eroge" lmao), that is; being an actual weeaboo
>I don't understand so it's a buzzword
It just means they're a newbie that thinks too highly of themselves, imagine you're a car guy and you're talking about what type of combustion is better for the car and a random shows up and say he loves car modifications too but after talking with him for a while you discover he doesn't even know the difference between a Toyota and a Hyundai
it IS a buzzword cause nobody understands it at all and they just use it reflexively to project their own conception of what is an "ironic weeaboo" that differs wildly from neckbeard to neckbeard
there is no irony in your example btw, did you mean to say "newbie" or "fake fan"? cause thats all what you're conveying.
describe neckbeard
'homosexual who spams hentai and unfunny anime memes because he wants to fit in' is too clunky.
Ironic fans are fake fans, even if not all fake fans are ironic.
If you can't pick up the connection between being a crunchyroll, barnes and noble browser and basedlewdsenpai "anime is trash" personality type, that's on you.
>"anime is trash"
this is true though, like 99% of other media
Okay, now say "video games are trash", "movies are trash", "books are trash", on twitter where everyone can see it.
I don't care if you believe it, that's not a gotcha. I want you to say it in public (Ganker doesn't count, nobody gives a shit about Ganker) and see how the reactions differ.
sturgeon's law applies for everything, also who cares about Xitter its not real life (and has a very specific demographic in it)
>vidya is shit (agreed to by "higher media" like movies)
>walking sims, gambling MP games, all scenariowriting marketed towards infantile people
>movies are shit
>romcoms and capeshit, or huff your own farts art movies, no in between
>books are shit
>99% of output are romance books for horny older women and nonfiction
>anime is trash
>99% of output is seasonal coomerbait for man/childs
>most "respected" output are a bunch of childrens movies
Literally none of that had anything to do with my post.
>NOOOO people are saying mean words to me on twitter Black personman tasuketeeee
Then there's no point in saying it at all, least of all making it a core part of your personality and humor.
It is just dudes complaining about "fake fans" for liking VNs they don't like. Most VNs have ironic cutaways, routes or endings, and nearly all VNs are subversive. They just don't like Class of 09 for the entire cast bullying the Jeffrey character so they hide behind "grrrr frick ironic weebs (how DARE the people who made fun of me for my hobbies like it now)". It's funny because Jeffrey is just a self-depreciating self-insert of the author's old self.
?si=MLopCotHP9RkJS7N
i'm sick of westoids trying to kill discourse by claiming a tree and a trannoid are literally the exact same thing because both are technically made of organic matter even though the only thing a trannoid is good for is for hanging himself on said tree
>how DARE the people who made fun of me for my hobbies like it now
What is wrong with this? They didn't learn their lesson, they didn't change or grow, they just go
>ackshually there's some GOOD anime/VNs, I thought it was all weirdo shit (which I still hate and make fun of)
If you're a newbie that wants to learn more about the series/franchise that's cool, the problem are homosexuals who never or barely watched/played and call themselves fans and want to discuss about it, it's like discussing about art with a blind guy
Someone who watches anime but isn't invested enough in the culture to understand the tropes or references that are used. Like someone watching UndeadUnluck and seeing Shen wield the Nyoi Kinko and thinking it's a Dragon Ball reference because they don't know Journey to the West.
Journey to the West is Chinese, anon.
Not knowing everything = Irony sounds even more stupid. I joke that everyone else thinks learning and acquiring knowledge is a joke because you're supposed to come out the womb knowing everything but I guess that's true, you're not allowed to learn and being ignorant is a crime.
It means people who only watch surface-level stuff like one punch man or made in abyss and don't get exposed to anything else except through gigguk videos
So people like me
It's wearing a ahegao hoodie in public in downtown Shinjuku without having read the source material or realizing you look like a hopeless degenerate with brain eroded by syphilis.
Everytime I see someone crying about "ironic weebs" its because:
>You say you like Japanese things but you didn't like THIS Japanese thing!? Wtf ironic weeb!
No and he's right and anyone making fun of him is the real homosexual.
If you play gacha, watch vtubers, or watch anime in dub, then you're an ironic weeb.
>if you participate in Japanese mobile games played by most of the Japanese population
>watch virtual idols that most of the Japanese population watches
>dubs thing here is valid
yawn
tired of u Black folk thinking youre better
if idols became popular in the west like vtubers did you would be seething all over them too
>tired of u Black folk thinking youre better
I AM BETTER LMAO
I am absolutely better than you, by a mile
>i simp for 3d girls using 2d anime avatars lol
>i simp for bad predatory gaming practices just because it has cute girls
IM SO MUCH BETTER THAN YOU THAT IM HAVING AN ERECTION RIGHT NOW
>>i simp for 3d girls using 2d anime avatars lol
is that better than simping for 2d anime characters voiced by 3d girls? I dont get your point
Voice actor being used =/= someone using an anime girl
Manga also exist, secondary
You're a simp for 3D prostitutes
how is it not the same?
implying the viewer doesnt make any donations how is a vtuber idol any different from a anime character?
both are characters and have a voice actor
>manga also exists
so?
>how is it not the same?
Tell me that an actor being used for the sake of a character is the same as someone using a character, please
Anime have script written by someone else. Vtubing is more like improv.
what if the script was written by a woman (very common) is it still simping now?
No because nobody simps for writers (except the ones that have become vtubers)
I feel sad for autistic people like you, you're being preyed upon by prostitutes.
One is written for a story. The other is a 3D prostitute skin walking as a 2D one. God I wish /vt/rannies wouldn't leave their containment board.
>Story
Anime girls doing nothing all day long and making shit jokes isn't a story
simply by virtue of us being westerners this entire thread is schizoid and pointless
Just do what you like why is that so fricking hard for people to understand?
>Just do what you like why is that so fricking hard for people to understand?
I'm honestly tired of it. This whole thread feels like a weird extant example of the OG ADTRW schism between SA and Ganker but I guarantee very few grandstanding posters itt even know what I mean by that
"People" toothlessly try to "gatekeep" me as a fake fan/secondary/ironic weeb etc because they're literally insane while others call me an autist, schizo weeb, chud etc. but I don't care anymore. I'm too old.
Frick it, I just want to play vidya, watch animu and fap. Frick every single last one of you
and yet here you are still to tell everyone off
nah, I wont be free until gen alpha supplants whatever role this place has in the zeitgeist in a way that is strange and alienating to me
We're clearly on our last legs the only question is will there be an actual demarcation via a top down scenario or a backslide into web 1.0 forum irrelevance
we've become so corrupt and consumed by moronic meta narratives and infighting I eagerly await the day we get our shit pushed in by some upstart community with actual vitality to it
i feel like old heads like you should know thats never coming back
Every community that forms these days implodes when someone says "Black person" at them, it's how we've survived DESPITE our moronic infighting for so long.
It’s never coming back my friend. The internet is too mainstream, no longer a tool for the top 10% most educated and wealthy on this planet like it used to be. We are drowning in mediocracy.
Only a new communication system that only the upper middle class have could bring anything back. Thats assuming it can not just filter the trash, but the economic realities of bots and shills as well.
>as an Otaku
What went right?
>goonlords
Just take solace in the fact that westoids are gatekept from management roles and investor control in domestic Japanese companies. The source will be pure pure the foreseeable future
>westoids are gatekept from management roles and investor control in domestic Japanese companies
>he doesn't know in japan the directors are wearing a chastity belt from the CEO at all times
kek
the problems only start when they move the HQ to westoid land like snoy did
Pokemon is so global it’s the opposite of a domestic JP product at this point
No, western VNs deserve even more scrutiny until post-ironic morons frick off.
Ask the top 5/10 anime of anyone who says "99% of anime are trash" and watch them squirm.
Cowboy bebop will be on top of their lists every time.
also berserk, also FMA, also kusoshitsuba, also demon slayer if they are feeling fancy
Samurai Champloo.
And don't forget Evangelion!
that's too fricking old you fricking geezer
the new tranBlack person hotness is troonypunk, and before that it was witch academia
But only because they think it's about how anime is bad.
I think 85% of anime are trash
Here is my top 10:
Kaiji
Uchuu Patrol Luluco
Ping Pong The Animation
Hi Score Girl
Thunderbolt Fantasy
Hyouge Mono
Mob Psycho
Odd Taxi
Bloom into you
Gakuen Babysitters
Bonus shonen: Hunter X Hunter
How well did I do?
I also instant block anyone who says they are a fan of Samurai Champloo, Evangelion, Monster, Steins;gate One Piece and JJK because my taste are obviously better than theirs and I don't talk to scrubs.
Browsing MAL Top 100 for recs/10.
Only 2 anime in this list are top 100
3 but hi score girl and kaiji got bumped off it looks like. I like Bloom into you but it's pretty entry level.
Yeah that's not even half of them. Having a hate for anything in the top 100 just means you are a contrarian for the sake of it.
Imagine not being contrarian.
Being a contrarian is not a replacement for actually having a personality you insincere insecure homosexual.
You seem pretty insecure about someone calling your list pleb tier. homosexual.
>calling your list pleb tier
im not the anon you were talking to newbie, lurk more.
I have nothing to say about someone who unironically said that being a contrarian for the sake of it is good.
Contrarianbros... The sixes don't lie... Maybe we should smile and accept that we like something too...
THE NUMBERS DONT LIE
sexts of truth
Sextuplets of anal devastation
Haikyuu has multiple entries in the top 100 and is one of the worst things I've ever forced myself to sit through. I say this with absolute sincerity.
And????????
Does it means everything in the top 100 is bad?
Haikyuu is popular because of fujo, of course you won't enjoy it as a man.
>yuasashit
ping pong might be the only anime that's worse than the live-action
2/10
Shit taste
HERE'S a top 10 list of actually good anime.
>Tantei Opera Milky Holmes S1 and S2
>gdgd Fairies
>Dennou Coil
>Thunderbolt Fantasy
>Kemono Friends
>Girls und Panzer
>Gochiusa
>Princess Tutu
>Yuru Yuri
>Mitsudomoe
>its moe therefor its good!
Everything worth caring about is moe. Sword autist would agree with me.
Do not post my husband after posting your atrocious taste.
>ywn have unending sword cuddling in space.
One of the best villains in my opinion.
Kemono friends is good but not worth being in a top 10
Girls und Panzer is worth being in a top 10
You didn't watch Princess Tutu
Gochiusa is mid
Yuru Yuri is trash
Mitsudomoe is trash
Dennou Coil is trash
Milky Holmes is alright but not worth a top 10
You're just a pedophile who made being one his personality.
>You didn't watch Princess Tutu
Watched it back in 2013, but my feelings about the second half haven't changed a bit outside of how much I really wanna frick a duck.
Want to really have fun?
Ask their opinion on what they would do if the age of consent gets raised to 21 and this retroactively applies to fictional characters.
I love Japanese games
I love Japanese storytelling
I love Japanese character designs
I love Japanese game design
I love Japanese tropes
I love Japanese RPGs
I love Japanese fighting games
I love Japanese action games
I love unique experimental Japanese games
I love doujin games
The only reason I haven't played all the great Japanese games is because there are so many
I haven't played a western games in over a decade
Otaku till the day I die
You should try unfinished Japanese rpgmaker demo vaporware. They’re on another level compared to the western rpgmaker scene
I've already played Violated Heroine
>goonlords
My top 5 anime
1. Queen's Blade
2. Maria-sama ga Miteru
3. Code Geass
4. Tengen-Toppa Gurren Lagann
5. Agent Aika
Code Geass is just okay, but otherwise incredibly good taste
Anime was literally inspired by western cartoons though?
Okay, how many authors who said they were inspired by cartoons also went on to talk shit about all the bad things cartoons have?
He doesn't understand that there is a filter in any media. For example, here in my country we watched all the US classic cartoons, pretty much everything was good. The thing is, only the good stuff was translated, for obvious reasons.
But, of course, ironic weeb is really annoying. I used to love anime because of what it was, it's hard to expose it now because of all the satire around it.
Ironic weebs don't complain about untranslated things, though. Because they don't know they exist. They also don't complain about things that flopped in Japan, because again, they don't know those things exist.
They complain about things that were successful in Japan and thus got translated. I don't know where this translation argument comes from.
You're a step away from what they actually do.
it's not 'complain about successful things that got translated'
instead, it's 'complain about complaints, from an individual who engaged in the <thing> in question'
I figured this'd be obvious in light of the fact that a single person's opinion often models all surrounding discourse regarding a matter.
-Something unfortunately not so untrue here as well.
I see, it makes sense.
I mostly ignore when someone talk with this satire/ironic weeb tone.
Though, in the OP it seems like that the tweet was talking about on how everything made in Japan was "sincere" while in the Western it was full of satire.
I don't think it's a bad thing that the west is creating stuff with this japanese aesthetic. If I were creating something I'd also create it using this style, unironically.
Maybe, in the western, it's just low quality stuff, maybe it's not even a satire. I'm sure that there are a lot of low quality stuff in Japan too, but we only get exposed to the good stuff, even when it comes to untranslated stuff, since we probably get exposed to it through recommendation, unless you download stuff randomly and google translate everything.
Maybe there's something I'm also missing, because I mostly ignore when I feel people talking with this tone.
I see.
>I don't think it's a bad thing that the west is creating stuff with this japanese aesthetic
The problem is it's not japanese aesthetic. It's faux-japanese aesthetic. Some people call it "diet anime". You can tell it's trying to ape a sort of anime artstyle, but you can also immediately tell it's actually not.
>I'm sure that there are a lot of low quality stuff in Japan too, but we only get exposed to the good stuff
Again, this argument is stupid. The good stuff that gets translated gets translated because it was popular in Japan. Therefore, logically, the things that get popular in here should also be good, right? But they're not. What is being complained about is not some nobody game that 100 people heard of and only 10 of those liked. It's the things that get widespread praise and are elevated as the "face" of western VNs.
Can you give me an example? When it comes to the WEG threads I hardly see japanese inspired stuff.
Okay, I just read this:
I get it now. I was still in the first phase of the "ironic weeb" I didn't know it was this bad already.
We're all secondaries wether you want to admit it or not. This shit is moronic
I don't think you know what a secondary is.
And your post also strangely resembles when someone is called a tourists and his witty retort is "umm are u japanese? haha yeah I thought so, you're just as much a tourist as me!"
Realistic and believable are not synonyms. Good worldbuilding only needs to be believable, not realistic. A world can present unrealistic rules and then follow them, this is believable and not realistic. Good worldbuilding.
shiet, meant for
That’s true, but that has nothing to do with my point. I mean that Kiseki is neither realistic, nor believable. Also, to some degree, the real world is where we draw a lot of how we consider fiction, although I’m not sure that necessarily is a good thing.
Knowing even kindergartner japanese makes watching anime and games translated a nightmare, I refuse to believe there's more than 5 true translators in all of that, it isn't even kanji and shit like that, they miss in fricking propositions and adverbs
Every service --that is to say every game, book, anime, anything you can think of-- engages in wish fulfillment on account of the fact that it exists and is, as it were, a 'service'; a product whose purpose is to deliver to you, the consumer, player, reader, watcher, an 'experience' hence, it is fulfilling or has fulfilled *something*.
What is that *something*? a wish. A wish for an experience, entertainment, 'something'.
Ergo, every service de facto engages in wish fulfillment with the wish being an <experience> and the fulfillment naturally being your engagement of it.
QED.
>t. too autistic to understand what people mean by wish fulfillment
when they use it they use it as a buzzword to mean "i can't wank it to my coworkers and parents because it FEELS too immature, so it sucks and it's for stinky basement dwellers"
You're missing the point.
Let's take a current conventional interpretation like isekai then. It's wish fulfillment because you, the watcher, self insert into a protagonist and get a lustful harem of beautiful girls vying for your attention 24/7.
-Hence, 'wish fulfillment'.
Well, that's no problem. It's just another <experience> after all.
Think of <experience> simply being a variable.
experience = wanting a grand adventure and girls, enamored by me, to frolic with me.
To another person, <experience> might be,
experience = I want to read anon's comments on Ganker all day.
See? It's wish fulfillment all across. Both what I'm doing now, whenever I eat food, whenever I use the toilet and dump a good dumper, it's all wish fulfillment. All of it.
>You're missing the point
No, you are, thats not what people mean by wish fulfillment and the fact that you typed out that much instead of just admitting you are wrong just further cements that you are extremely fricking autistic.
Romeo and Juliet is wish fulfilment too because it makes people wish for a love so strong the person would kill themselves for you, yet it's considered a humanity's classic
It's kinda based that you take a term you don't understand and come up with your own definition of it in your head instead of just looking it up. But that just makes you a based moron.
like saying every game is an rpg
ACKtivists have been crying about this since at least 2010. Anything that is aimed at a heterosexual male audience is "wish fulfillment" and is therefore bad.
You want to make a white human male fighter??? NOOO YOU CANT DO THAT THATS RACIST SEXIST AND HOMOPHOBIC
hes right actually
I'd be more down with this idea of shitting on irony if it weren't for the fact that the response to irony VNs is just to make shit like Snoot Game that isn't really so much sincere but anti-ironic, which isn't the same thing. Even sincere fetish material like Andy & LeyLey got turned into a modern day Boku no Pico by its "fans" to jumpscare randoms with incest, instead of sincerely appreciating the work itself. This has all become more about owning teh ironytards than it is about actually being sincere. You can't make ~100 posts a day seething about how all modern VNs are ironyslop and not have that seething consciously or subconsciously seep into whatever you're making.
And even then I find it hard to believe people here going on irony when being an ironic weeb was what most people here were around 2012. I've seen it firsthand. From what I saw this trend only flipped around by 2014 when reddit get a hold of that and made JoJoposting really popular. I think without realizing most people here are equating irony with reddit (when that used to be the opposite) and are operating entirely on contrarianism. Knowing the current social landscape, I wouldn't be surprised if the next batch of Westerns VNs are just them shitting on irony VNs and going "at least we're not like that, amirite?", which would be just as insincere and garbage.
I'd say snoot game is pretty sincere
You're sorta blurring the lines between fans of something and the actual thing. If we did that then things like Persona would be the most irony-poisoned dogshit ever in existence simply because of the fanbase it attracts.
only good post itt
Gacha and Vtubers are killing otaku culture faster than any ironic weebs.
>Gacha = gambling
Always existed
>Vtuber = CGDCT
Always existed
Ironic weebs are way worse, we are so deep in that shit that if you truly like something you're a weirdo
Was "gambling" the centerfold of otaku culture before gacha games, you fricking moron? Were the majority of doujins at comiket about gambling? Were the majority of cosplayers complaying "Gambling"? Stop being moronic.
>Vtuber = CGDCT
No, Vtuber = 3D idolshit
>idolshit
And most CGDCT are idol or music related...
Anime idols =/= 3D idols
Gambling and moe always existed, yes, but with the advent of smartphones gacha and vtubing could then combine these elements and make them significantly more efficient at getting losers addicted and spending more money on their oshi, and spreading idoru culture cancer worldwide. It used to be contained to Japan, now it's a global problem. Comiket stuff used to be dominated by Touhou, now it's dominated by gacha. Niche Japanese game software houses used to churn out sequels to their (A)RPGs to stay afloat, but now they all want a slice of that Fate GO money. It has gotten worse.
Touhou is the flag of ironic weebs(the older ones), they only talk about what pussy is better and never played a single touhou game
Post 1CC
>touhou is the flag of ironic weebs
>i play gacha btw lol
I never played gacha but they're better than touhou gays, at least they play the "games" they like, while touhou gays buy their #197 doujinshi while never touching any game
>I never played gacha but they're better than touhou gays
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>Westoid """VN""""
You can shit on irony VNs without going "the Japanese do not understand irony because they are a pure and noble people", because the latter is just patently false when some of its most famous cultural exports on Ganker are Galo Sengen and Gachimuchi.
>Gachimuchi
I suppose that laughing at something that is sincerely funny because of the irony of it is still sincere in its own way.
If only there was a way to escape this endless cycle of reflexive meta contrarianism and inter subcultural posturing and recapture the innocence of one's youth without worrying about such things
oh well autism and cluster b disorders and the tribal tendencies hardwired into human beings are a b***h
I will say this it's a relief to watch this place slowly die as TikTok and similar places supplant us. We've grown diseased the same way the ex goon in the OP decrying goons have become
I enjoyed talking about Demon Slayer with my cute 18yo female coworkers. I like anime lol
It'll be overblown when we run out of localizers to hang from lampposts
Ironic weebs are the same people that say you need a bath if you play fromsoft games, they can't imagine someone liking something they can't
fromsoft games are basically westerns, what's your point
the only winning move is not to play. Don't listen to autists or normalgays. Both are cancer.
>bro just ignore them bro, bro they can't hurt you if you ignore them bro bro bro
>ignore that things keep getting censored, authors keep getting harassed, people that hate you and the things you like keep getting into positions of influence in distributors and localization companies
>it'll all just go away on its own bro, just keep doing your thing and ignore the haters
that things keep getting censored
This is 100% the fault of the japanese companies who hire these people to localize their games. If they actually cared about you (they dont) they would make sure the people they hire to translate their works were authentic and honest. They dont care, they hire whoever offers the best deal.
>the company is unfeeling and uncaring therefore never complain about anything ever again
>inb4 "NOOOO I DIDN'T SAY THAT"
>If they actually cared about you (they dont) they would make sure the people they hire to translate their works were authentic and honest.
There are Japanese companies who hire good authentic and honest translations, but now you're just going to say that they only do it because they think having good translations is more profitable.
>There are Japanese companies who hire good authentic and honest translations,
Yes, but thats not what we are talking about anon... are you moronic? The anon was talking about censorship and bad localizations. I was saying that this happens because in those companies, they do not care about their western audience. Is your IQ literally just sub 20?
0/10
>no actual comeback
I thought so.
>I was saying that this happens because
Did I ever ask WHY it happens? I don't remember asking that, no.
>>no actual comeback
You are trying to blame western people for a shitty japanese company problem because you idolize the japanese and refuse to ever admit they would forsake you. If i write a book and hire some random homosexual on Ganker to translate it to japanese it is ONE HUNDRED PERCENT my fault when the translation ends up horrible. Why? Because it is my responsibility to hire people who will do a good job.
>doubling down on being moronic
I didnt say all japanese companies dont care I was specifically talking about the ones who dont. Look, I get it anon, reading comprehension is hard when you have a 3rd world shitstain burgerstan education but holy shit just stop sperging and actually read a post before replying. I mostly play japanese games, I am well aware that there are plenty of good developers/publishers that care about their western audience and hire good localizers. I was SPECIFICALLY talking about the ones who DONT.
> cases where the situation is reversed, you'd still be able to phrase as Japanese companies not caring about you,
Not at all. In any service, any industry, it is the job of the person or company who hires someone else to represent their work to make sure that they hire responsibly so that their work will be represented correctly. Are you LITERALLY fricking moronic?
>for a shitty japanese company problem
It takes two to tango. This sounds a lot like when someone complains about e-prostitutes and some moron goes "umm ackshually the real problem are the simps who donate to them!!". Both can be at fault at the same time, moron.
>It takes two to tango
Well yes, i am not saying that the shitty western localizers are blameless, in this case blame is a pie chart where most of it lies with the japanese company and the rest lies with the shitty localizers. Its probably roughly a 60/40 split but it really depends on a lot of circumstances. There are decent japanese developers who simply dont know better, who get swindled by shitty localizers, and then when they realize the translation was butchered they hire better ones. Samurai Maiden comes to mind in this regard.
>Well yes, i am not saying that the shitty western localizers are blameless
>If i write a book and hire some random homosexual on Ganker to translate it to japanese it is ONE HUNDRED PERCENT my fault when the translation ends up horrible
>>>>>>>>ONE HUNDRED PERCENT my fault when the translation ends up horrible
I am going to assume you have autism and so therefore I will explain what I meant to you. When i said one hundred percent my fault, I did not mean it was only my fault, I meant that there was no chance that it wasnt my fault, that there could be no doubt, no wriggle room, I could not pretend I was blameless. I could have used more clear language yes but I thought my point would get across better. I apologize.
>I meant that there was no chance that it wasnt my fault
Okay, and what does that have to do with me? At what point did I present an opposition to that stance?
>I could not pretend I was blameless
Who is doing that?
You brought up, out of nowhere, "durr hurr japanese companies don't care" as if that was somehow a counter to what I said. From the very moment you replied to me you had nothing to actually say to me, because you brought up something that didn't actually interfere with what I was saying.
>as if that was somehow a counter to what I said.
Because you are trying to frame this as western influences corrupting japanese media. Why are you lying? What purpose does it server
>Because you are trying to frame this as western influences corrupting japanese media
...because they are? This is not "japanese companies are blameless". But the corruption is coming from one source, the apathy that allows it inside is a different thing.
>...because they are?
Maybe a small amount of them but again, I brought up an example of how this is not truly a western problem, this is a greed and apathy problem when it comes to bad localizations. You were already completely btfo on this topic.
>Maybe a small amount of them
lmao
Also, once again, what does bickering about this have to do with my original post?
Perhaps one day you will wake up and stop idolizing these soulless japanese companies and realize they do not care about filthy gaijin like you. Somehow the games I like to play all have decent translations.
>westoid already projecting off how goyslop works
Anon you will never be japanese.
>you will never be japanese
Why this shit exist only with japanese things? I speak 5 languages so that means I want to be german, british, portuguese, russian and japanese?
You have so thoroughly constructed this fake version of me in your head that you can't even reply to my posts anymore. You are convinced that this fake me idolizes japanese companies and thinks they do no wrong.
you quite literally threw a temper tantrum at the mere idea that japanese companies should be held responsible for hiring shitty localizers anon, i dont know who you think you are fooling.
Rewriting history doesn't work when we're still in the same thread. I made this post
saying that bad things won't go away by shutting up and ignoring them. You responded with your diatribe about japanese companies not caring (they don't, I know this). The only reason you would reply to me with this is if you thought pointing this out somehow destroyed my post about bad things not going away if you simply do nothing. Otherwise you would have no reason to point out something that adds or subtracts nothing from my post.
>Yes, but thats not what we are talking about anon... are you moronic?
I'm pointing out that you attempt at saying that "Japanese companies do not care" is irrelevant because in cases where the situation is reversed, you'd still be able to phrase as Japanese companies not caring about you, therefore whether or not Japanese companies care about us or not is irrelevant.
moronic low iq autist. I'm saying letting this moronic ever shifting bullshit dictate your life is dumb as frick. You didn't act this way in whatever halycon era you claim to be trying to recapture unaware that in part this prevents you from doing so in the first place
Your an authentic le japanese fan right? have u ever heard of a little phrase called "Mono No Aware"?
It means your a homosexual, in Japanese
This is the most moronic word vomit I've ever seen. You said literally nothing in this post. Congratulations.
you have a learning disability. Are you an ESL?
>As an otaku...
humanity is lost
Ganker is for gamer otaku
>noble eroge
lol
>shitter screencap of a literal who
who cares, homosexual. why aren't these threads banned?
I bought 7 Japanese games and 1 Chinese game this year.
The best NES game was made by an american studio (Battletoads)
Japanese people can't compete with this.
mogged by Adventure Island IV
Why does Class of 09 make Ganker seethe so hard?
Does Jeffery give them flashbacks to their childhood or something?
No idea. The creator seems like such a smart guy.
Astro Boy is old as frick and he doesn't look japanese
lol this is the guy shilling his subversive vn slop on Ganker
What a gay
I know the creator is a israelite with an uncontrollable hatred of White people.
Doesn't mean I can't enjoy his work, separating the artist from his art is easy if you're not a leftist twitter user.
These have to be shills, there’s not this many buckbroken poltards around.
>there’s not this many buckbroken poltards around
Anon...
this guys a gay but hes right about this at least
A Black person that types like a tradcath LARPer shouldn't lecture others on insincerity.
How has this not been posted yet
spending a lot of time on making your own game doesn't really qualifies as hate does it?
Hate is a powerful motivator to create things as well. It's just that it's nowhere near as potent nor nearly as long-lasting as love unless it's a grudge.
Recent mystery EVNs on Steam over the past few years:
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/1249260/Birth_ME_Code/
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/1228600/Blankspace/
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/1414250/CORPSE_FACTORY/
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/1568920/Clean_Slate/
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/1820720/The_Divine_Deception/
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/2011310/Entropic_Float_This_World_Will_Decay_And_Disappear/
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/2058090/The_Game_of_Fourtune/
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/1338940/Head_AS_Code/ (remake)
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/1271300/Methods_The_Detective_Competition/
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/1940040/The_Price_Of_Flesh
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/1020030/Quantum_Suicide/
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/2621950/Reaplaced/
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/2091580/SYNESTHESIA/
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/1513120/The_Zodiac_Trial/
Upcoming mystery EVNs on Steam:
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/1728290/Decide_4_God/ (finale to the Abime series)
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/1041270/Exogenesis_Perils_of_Rebirth/ (never ever)
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/1349820/The_Lost_Delinquents_of_Rollings_High/
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/1287170/Thiefs_Roulette/
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/1929350/Ubel/
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/2385550/Underground22/
>noble eroge
if your writing skills are so dogshit that your garbage of a game gets compared to porn then it's not "weeb shepherd who leads cattle away" or whatever, the problem is that your game is by all means just softcore porn and doesn't hold artistic value
>ummmh you don't like bottom of the barrel isekai and other assorted trash? IRONIC WEEB
lmao
a ton of ironic weebs like one piece and naruto
"Weeb" is a great word. It signals that the poster is a newbie and has nothing of quality to contribute. Any of their postulations can be safely ignored.
>Thinks anime content is this unapologetically alien thing that might be tolerated by the common western man but will never be fully understood
>Equates understanding to validation and respect when in truth some people might dislike it due to simple irrational subjectivity, thinks whatever hate it gets comes from people who don't "get it".
>Thinks the west only likes anime and manga that are westernized, which happen to be most of the greatest works ever made, when in fact they are great not because of westernization, but because they were simply directed with a healthy dose of common sense, which happens to be things everyone likes, showing how the east vs west mindset is just a fallacy
>Thinks the absolute deplorable state of current anime where moe related shit has become this thin coating of slop is the norm, and the reason is simply that the Miyazaki posts were ultimately right, and both this person and the current context of anime production showcase it perfectly: dettachment from life and humanity, absolute social failure and isolation, escapism driven fantasies and finally cultural incest.
>Simply cannot grasp that normal, mentally healthy people without massive insecurities and self esteem issues don't fricking question everything they do and consume all of the time, massively projects his insecurities toward anime on the way he perceives how anime is in turn perceived as, the fact that anime is not that socially acceptable has come to define his views and engagement with the medium, this also makes him unable to understand that if the west ever liked anime at any point it was because it was fricking good and approachable to anyone and not some weird drivel for losers who failed at life.
what is your point? the patrt about anime being shit is based tho
>if a piece of media is unapproachable by the general public (specifically americans), then that means its bad and made by losers
all media is not made for all people. Even America which desperately wants a monoculture where everyone watches the same sports, movies, and tv shows, listens to the same music, etc., is experiencing the mass proliferation of media niches the way Japan is.
Some things actually are just not for some people. I will never be a big fan of rap, but I can still acknowledge that it is a valid medium of music with many high quality entries.
I feel genuine pity and sadness for vtubergays.
No. I don't care how moronic the one making the point is, homosexuals who make "irony" a fricking hobby are so moronic it eclipses stupidity and delves deep into malice. If you don't ACTUALLY like the thing you're engaging with, WHY are you fricking engaging with it?
Because they mostly like it but they want to "sanitize" it of what they find cringey and neckbeardy
They basically want the "Extra Mild for White People" version of anime/VNs
No ideia, I think they lack some braincells, imagine entering a math club and telling people there they take math too seriously, it's beyond my comprehension
its not beyond comprehension, theyre just scared of the stigma related to being a nerd according to normalgays
or theyre just evil, miserable people and have to make nice things bad
It's the Enkidu Gambit. Seriously, I know you have anon's snapshot explanation somewhere but it really is exactly this.
If you were on Ganker before 2015, their favorite anime would usually be "ironic weeb" tier despite fotm harem discussions
As time goes on, certain ~~*people*~~ have hopped on the bandwagon and tried to destroy the self-inserting genre because it's made for straight men, which is why unironic weebs have started to appreciate the early 2010s harem trope for what it is
Reminder this is why giving control of anything to femoids and trannoids was a mistake.
>Men want role models to improve themselves as a gigachad thunderwiener.
>Femoids and trannoids are locusts that want to bring everything down to their level.
And it's ALWAYS femoids and trannoids accusing male characters of being "self inserts" too.
The projection is real.
This is also why feminism fails as an ideology.
The goal was to make women raise up to the status of men, but they ended up wanting to tear down men to their level instead.
It’s the usual modern political MO, first they worm their way into something they want to destroy, then they start falseflagging about how some things are “problematic” and so on, then they start rallying for things to be “fixed for the target audience”.
Eventually you end up with a bunch of morons that think they are consuming a different culture when in reality they are consuming the same slop as usual, just with an anime coat of paint, hence weebgoys.
It's the classic Leftist play: infiltrate and subvert, then create networks where they can hire like-minded homosexuals who do the same thing.
Repeat until everything is awful.
death to moeshit and to isekai self insert harems
have sex
The last desperation argument from westoids that know they irreparably lost the argument.
>ur sex life bad
>ur weird/creepy
>u take thing 2 seriously
Kek.
>westoids
rajeesh, clean the toilet please, you will never be Japanese
>Proves anon right
What's funny is that most popular vns can be considered subversive to the genre
Steins;Gate
Fate/stay night
Muv luv
Higurashi/umineko
Muramasa
Subahibi
White album 2 etc
All these are a deconstruction of the usual eroge in some form or another, they aren't just stories written in the vn format but stories that are actively using the usual dating sim/anime tropes elements to subvert expectations
They are outliers in the genre, what's make 90% of vns is your run of the mill nukige, moege or ntr game almost nobody talk about
The only reason weebs hate western vns is because most of them are shit and don't have porn to make up for it, not because they're subversive or satirical
People don't complain about subversion.
They complain about malicious subversion. When the spite towards the thing being subverted is so clear that you can taste it from afar.
This is exactly the same as the "politics in video games" argument. Malicious people take the phrases used by antisocial nerds who don't know how to express themselves correctly and then twist them.
I'd argue that most of the time it's more a lack of knowledge about the genre they're trying to subvert than real malice
Steins gate is a giant satire of the japanese otaku sub-culture that subvert you by becoming serious halfway through
fate/stay night's Heaven's Feel is a total subversion of the usual shonen hero's journey
White album 2 is a subversion of the usual anime love triangle by making it self destructive and tragic instead of a power fantasy
Muv luv entire first part is a parody, and it turns into a completely different genre after that
Haven't played the rest but
>steins gate
>fate/stay night
>muv luv
>white album 2
are not subversive or satirical to the genre. They still give you the traditional male power fantasy and harem experience despite having some deviations from the rest
>are not subversive
>muv-luv
>not subservice or satirical
holy frick you might be the most moronic person to ever post on Ganker
The first part of muv-luv, extra, is literally just a giant satire/parody of common eroge tropes at the time. Even the fricking name is. Then, when the player completes both of the main girl routes, an entire SECOND GAME THAT NO ONE EVEN KNEW EXISTED UNLOCKS. This game is COMPLETELY different from the first and explores themes, ideas, stories, etc etc, that no one was expecting. How the FRICK is that not subversive? Did you just not realize that no one who played muv-luv on launch realized that unlimited was a thing? It was a secret anon, it was not advertised.
>literally any comedy = satire and deconstruction
this is your brain on westoid goyslop
Nowhere once did i mention the word deconstruction. It is satirical and then it completely subverts the audience expectations. You are not fooling anyone. Anyone can go play it right now.
>Then, when the player completes both of the main girl routes, an entire SECOND GAME THAT NO ONE EVEN KNEW EXISTED UNLOCKS. This game is COMPLETELY different from the first and explores themes, ideas, stories, etc etc,
was this shit the first time you realized golden endings exist?
Show me any other VN that unlocks an entirely different game upon completion that is way longer than the original and was completely hidden. Oh and it has to be before muv-luv.
>t. literally didnt play the games
Oh so no arguments. You can't even refute a single thing I said because YOU didn't play any muvluv games
Anon you quite literally just didnt respond to anything i said in my post and pretended like the points you brought up somehow had anything to do with what i said. The fact that Takeru still has a harem of girls who lust over him doesnt mean the series isnt satirical or subversive. You dont understand anything about eroge VN's if you dont know this.
extra isn't satirical or subversive
it may have some satire, but the haremshit was absolutely in service of something more than just contemporary shallow understandings of how you can satirize something but still love it and use it to build on the emotional impact of a story
>extra isn't satirical or subversive
Its entirely satirical. And then as i stated, the subversion comes with unlimited, which was included with extra.
you are ignorant as frick if you think it was entirely satirical
the fricking end of the trilogy ends with takeru going back to your "satire" world because he finally got his happy ending
unlimited could have subverted Extra but it's not the subversion soi bugmen think it is and isn't satirical
you are almost as bad at understanding a story as homosexuals like hbombergay of stophomosexualsfromfighting
>esl sperging out after getting caught not understanding english
Nope, Im the guy you accused of not playing any muvluv games. Muvluv is not "satirical" or "subversive" because it's set in a war zone and not japan bumfrick nowhere. Why would you think it's a deconstruction when it literally didn't change the main motiff of VNs? I don't know you know what satirical and subversive means
>deconstruction
Why do you keep using this word when I never once did. Are you some ESL who thinks it means the same as satire or subversion? Either way theres no point in reading the rest of your posts when you make it clear you dont understand even extremely basic English.
This guy first claimed muv luv is a deconstruction
Read the thread before you reply
>This guy first claimed muv luv is a deconstruction
but i am not that person, i specifically only ever mentioned satire and subversion. learn to fricking read and stop assuming every person you reply to is the same person you disgusting newbie secondary.
So why didnt you accuse him of being an ESL? Be consistent
And where's your muvluv play time since you like to accuse others of not playing the game?
>So why didnt you accuse him of being an ESL
Because thats not why you are an ESL? holy shit you really dont understand what these words mean do you.
>And where's your muvluv play time since you like to accuse others of not playing the game?
i pirated them originally because i wasnt sure i would like them, rebought them on steam when they were on sale, im about half way through my 2nd playthrough of unlimited atm
So DDLC isn't subversive by your definition then?
>Show me any other VN that unlocks an entirely different game upon completion that is way longer than the original and was completely hidden. Oh and it has to be before muv-luv.
Eclipse is not 2x the length of the rest of the story, try again. Nor does it completely flip the story on its head like unlimited does to extra.
lol fricking moron
Did you even play unlimited? You still have a harem of chicks who like you and you pick a route with anyone you like. Or Alternative, where you save the world with all the girls that care about you. The setting is different but the basic VN formula stayed the same. You sound like you just read a synopsis of muvluv on reddit
muvluv is frickin kino
I felt secondhand patriotism for a country that doesn't exist during that scene
I'd advocate for monarchy in the west but we all know our nobles would just be disgusting pedophiles and degenerates sending us to die for israelite gold and lower interest rates so just let it all burn
I'm sure japan wasn't any better
if only we could appoint noble kings and queens who loved a country and its people instead of pedophiles and homosexual degenerates who would just incest themselves into oblivion on the coasts
Who same posts to themselves on this topic. Who hurt you?
Yeah having the main love interest getting raped in a genre infamously known for its fans who can't stand used goods is not subversive
Subversive isn't a synonym for liberal and lgbt propaganda you know
im beginning to think that anon is probably ESL and has no idea what subversion even means.
Right, ntr never existed in VNs before muvluv
moron
Surprise Ntr in visual novels who sell themselves as moege is not that common for a reason yes
Moving goalposts already? Congrats
You have nothing to say and you know it
How is putting unadvertised ntr in a harem vn not subversive?
Hoe is killing the entire cast during the course of the series when the vn was sold as a feel good romance comedy not subversive?
Or do you mean that as long as it has a harem it's not subversive, the I guess every one-heroine eroge are the height of subversion then
>Hoe is killing the entire cast during the course of the series when the vn was sold as a feel good romance comedy
Holy fricking moron. Nobody in the cast dies or gets ntred in unlimited/extra, your "subversive" game. The whole cast dies in alternative, the game released three years after your supposed subversion, and even then they can resurrected in the extra timeline. Alternative never set itself up to be feed good romance comedy. This homie played zero muvluv games
Alternative was supposed to come out at the same time as the rest but didn't for budget reasons so the fact it came out later is irrelevant
Also like you said unlimited was harem anime in the military, the most you get us some drama at the end that is set up to and in a way to make you think takeru will become a hero and save the day in Alternative (which he kinda ends up doing, but absolutely not in the usual shonen self insert way you'd expect from unlimited)
>All these are a deconstruction of the usual eroge in some form or another,
lol
lmao even
way to out yourself as knowing jack shit about the genre
that guy is a 100% correct and I'm not even a weeb. in the little anime I do watch it's refreshing how simple and sincere it is.
Would be great if we had a /vn/ board, since they aren't video games
We have one, it's called /jp/
Weird how that board became a dumpster for anything Japanese, 90% of the threads over there are for garbage
vns are games
seethe 😉
Oh yeah? What's the gameplay?
this is not an argument you want to start
I don't like BG3, don't whataboutism me, tell me what the gameplay of a VN is please.
muv luv trannies really are the worst
at least nasuhomosexuals actually play the games
shush, voidtroon
your contrarian opinions belong on a different dumpster fire
It amazes me how you frickers find these literal whos. Is this your fricking account?
He's not original, but he's right: Endless cynicism and desire for ~~*subversion*~~ in anything ruins hobbies, what should be praised is the genuine instead. You don't need to be 5 layers above everyone else to show how smart you are and how much you know, you just need to make something with heart.
The irony (eh) of this thread being on Ganker is that Ganker is the insincere board that doesn't actually like video games, while /vg/ is the board for the sincere people who genuinely like the game(s) of the general they're posting in.
you have to only browse the two minutes of hate threads to think that
>t. person who has literally never been to /vg/ ever
>while /vg/ is the board for the sincere people who genuinely like the game(s) of the general they're posting in.
HAHAHAGHH SRDFH dgfh dfhHAHA
/vg/ is just softcore porn with a video game theme: the board.
Ganker appears to hate vidya because most discussion on this board is initiated by trolls posting vidya-related ragebait, but subsequent discussions CAN be somewhat normal.
Contrast this with /vg/ where all normal discussion is snuffed out by someone posting a hundred low-quality foot porn pics of a vidya character.
Honestly, all these knee jerk replies just prove you're right. pure Gankertards have some weird hang up about /vg/ even though almost all original vidya content from Ganker has come from /vg/ since it's creation and Ganker is still stuck on late 2010's wojak edits.
>JUST LEARN JAPANESE BRO THERES SO MANY "KAMIGES"
>said "kamiges" are sweaty otaku fap bait full of random shock porn scenes and high school philosophy
why can't VNs just be books with pictures and music? why are they still based around garbage ot*ku media?
Otaku website.
mods = gays
anime
site
>wojakposting
No arguments it is
Anon, i am curious about something. Do you think that by being so disingenous and completely misrepresenting things that you have ever convinced anyone of anything in any argument ever? I am being serious. Because either you are aware that you arent convincing anyone, and are just wasting your own time, or you genuinely believe that somehow by misconstruing things that people who know the media know to be true, you can somehow change their minds. How exactly do you think that will work? Walk me through your state of mind, I want to understand what it is you are trying to accomplish. I genuinely dont understand your motives.
>misrepresenting
>you genuinely believe that somehow by misconstruing things that people who know the media know to be true
Pretty funny coming from a guy who thinks alternative was sold as a feelgood romance comedy. Not reading the rest since you clearly know absolutely nothing about muvluv besides le dying and le ntr
>Pretty funny coming from a guy who thinks alternative
>anon once again confirming he is a newbie who thinks everyone who replies to him is the same person
You are not him but you clearly agree with him so post your arguments against this
Why would i agrue with some moronic ESL who doesn't understand the works he consumes. I am just here to point and laugh at you.
So you got zero arguments besides being smug. Nice to know
You arent going to bait me into an argument when you make it obvious that your reading comprehension is barely above a 2nd grade level.
Alternative was sold as a sequel to unlimited, who was just your average sci-fi isekai
No nobody expected the chomp scene, nobody expected America's imperialism or Japan's ultra-nationalism being one of its main themes, nobody expected the main heroine to get brutally raped on screen, nobody expected Takeru to become a self hating depressed failure before becoming the expected hero, nobody expected every heroines to gruesomly die
So yes it is subversive
>No nobody expected the chomp scene, nobody expected America's imperialism or Japan's ultra-nationalism being one of its main themes, nobody expected the main heroine to get brutally raped on screen, nobody expected Takeru to become a self hating depressed failure before becoming the expected hero, nobody expected every heroines to gruesomly die
Yes, you are right about this.
I stand corrected
This is the exact type of moronic logic used to explain that Evangelion was subversive. It might surprise you but Mecha has always been like that and Muv-luv plays up aspects of it just like Eva did while playing into the old tropes that the genre has always had.
The fact that muv-luv turned into a mecha thing was subversive to begin with you moron. Before that the developer had only made pretty standard eroge and there was basically nothing in extra to indicate thats how it was going to turn out or that unlimited even existed. God you people are so fricking moronic.
Then what commentary was made about the genre from it being subversive if it sincerely played off the tropes of the respective genres of both parts of the story the entire time? If it was subversive for the sake of making those genres look odd then it did so in a really roundabout and stupid way.
>genre from it being subversive
Anon, what do you think the word subversive means. Like actually, what do you think this word means. Subversion has literally nothing to do with meta commentary.
you seem to have forgotten that this conversation started because
made that exact equivalence.
>All these are a deconstruction of the usual eroge in some form or another, they aren't just stories written in the vn format but stories that are actively using the usual dating sim/anime tropes elements to subvert expectations
Tell me what you think the word subversive means. No discussion will continue until you answer this question.
It means, within the bounds of this conversation, to use the elements of a genre to commentate on the genre as a whole and mostly has critical connotations, as the guy who started off posting about the subversiveness of popular vns in the genre meant for it to mean, I would assume.
>It means, within the bounds of this conversation, to use the elements of a genre to commentate
wrong, try again.
Then we aren't arguing over the same thing. You're barking up the wrong tree. (How
is moronic)
Anon you dont get to just create new definitions for words. Subversion and subversive have a meaning, if you are going to use these words then you should atleast try to understand what they mean. They mean to surprise the audience, to subvert their expectations based on how they think things will go, probably based on stereotypes within a genre.
>They mean to surprise the audience, to subvert their expectations based on how they think things will go
so plot twists = subversion
All mystery VNs are subversive
no because the audience is expecting some kind of great big reveal, its very common with mystery. But can you imagine an adam sandler rom-com where near the end of the movie when hes supposed to win the girl back it suddenly becomes an isekei where he gets transported to an alernate world thats mostly been destroyed by aliens and now needs to pilot a mech to save said waifu except shes already been mindraped by tentacles and is now just a brain in a jar?
Muv luv extra is a festival of anime tropes used in a comedic way, alternative make use of the romance points system to make your choosen waifu forget about you at some point , the route system and the act of restarting the game to choose another girl to frick is integrated in the narrative
Doesn't have to come with a deep commentary on the genre/medium it uses to use their common tropes to surprise you
Then you guys agree that Muv-luv was sincere in it's execution which is the exact opposite point that the original guy made?
No, muv-luv is very subversive, especially for the time and the genre.
The original poster's point was that the subversive aspect of western vns is not the real reason why weebs hate them
Urobochi notoriously wrote his vns in total subversion to the genre and yet saya no uta is one of the most popular vn ever made
wait I meant to reply to
Never said muv luv was original, almost everything was copied from starship trooper, gunbuster, macross, gunparade and countless other works
I'm saying it's subversive to its own medium, when 98% of eroge are harem romcom and that the previous entry in the series was a harem romcom in the military, its sequel going full real mecha is subversive
>when 98% of eroge are harem romcom
congratulations on confessing you know nothing about VNs aside from what eceleb grifters spoonfeed you
If you think vndb and EGS top 100 represents the majority of the eroge industry, especially when Muv Luv was released then you're wrong
Even rapege and ntrge are not that common compared to romance eroge
Subversion is so overdone that sticking to tradition is the new counterculture. So his criticism is not unwarranted.
Why are people even talking about random vns that deviate from typical storytelling or have some subverse elements? It has nothing to do with why people hate western vns.
Also pic related is how you subvert a VN.
>It has nothing to do with why people hate western vns.
But the people bringing it up disingenuously believe it does. They believe that the reason people hate western vns is because muh subversion, and then formulate their entire argument based on that.
To this day I am not sure if the -saku series was of the comedy or the kichiku genre.
He is right, western vns are rarely anything other than porn, I cant think of one off the top of my head. Most eroges, let alone vns at least attempt to have a story. Most of them are not good, but it pales in comparison to what the west is offering as an alternative. Go to the steam 'visual novel' category and just behold the endless amount of garbage WEG goblin games.
What a pathetic thread topic to get this many posts
Stop caring about anything at all, least of all this bullshit, especially with this kind of intensity you dumb fricking clowns.
>Stop caring
No
If you reply to this thread again you care, no buts.
Christ, Kenji, don't go all hairy kira on me XD
Shit like Pomni, The coffin of andy and laylay and Scotts Pilgrim is safe-weebery
>TCOALL
>safe
are you moronic
safe doesn't mean "I don't like it"
No. Irony is 99% of the time a boring act of insecurity rather than genuine attempt at humor.
Its the same cycle every time:
>Nerds have nerd hobby that disgusts normies and becomes associated with being a loser.
>Content gets both produced and consumed by nerds because normies wont touch it.
>Normies notice how much nerds are enjoying it and some secretly start trying it.
>Some influencer tries it and makes a video "how ddlc changed my life"
>Because its approved by an infuencer its now acceptable so normies flock to the hobby in swarms.
>Companies see all the normies hyping it as the new thing, smell money and view it as an untapped market.
>Companies strong arm the original creators and drive them out adding all of their own streamlining, rules, regulations, political agendas, and bugeting to produce as much low effort slop as possible.
>Original creators see no point in bothering because it feels like a job now, they have to work harder and they are no longer making content for people they relate to. They're now a small fish in an ocean.
>Now that the nerds are gone the hobby becomes another dead husk controlled by people who never liked it to begin with designed to drain money from suckers.
Happened with everything: computers, internet, vidya, mods, anime, manga, VNs