It fits with the level of class and intelligence you expect from the "people" involved with it.
RTS becoming an esports tournament thing in the 2000s probably doomed the genre to be dogshit for 50+ years, you know. I suspect the esports stuff is why normal people immediately left for GSGs/colony sims/whatever the frick kenshi is as soon as options like those became available.
Non-virgins, people who if they still have their hair it's not prematurely gray, people who watch out for their health because it's goddamned Red Bull, and so forth.
AHEM!
FRICK ARENA
FRICK ARABIA
FRICK KNIGHTS
FRICK EGALOS FOR HOOVERING UP MY VILLAGERS
FRICK CROSSBOW SPREADSHITTERS
FRICK TURK CASTILLE DROPPERS
FRICK BOOMBARD CANNONS
FRICK SPREADSHEETS
AND FRICK HERA AND VIPUUUR FOR GIVING PEOPLE SPREADSHEETS
An energy drink that is worth around 18.5 billion dollars. Let them fund our tournaments.
Also, it's about timings, opponent was messing you with crossbows and you made two scorps that you use fend off his army, does he have a knight right there at that moment? Unlikely, will he add a counter to your scorp? Yeah, in the meantime you already bought some time and space to stabilize the situation. Timings and actualky playing the game is above mentioning counters in a Indian street food forum
Given the state of the eco and his military control? He was doing a whole lot of nothing. APM like that where the miltiary/eco doesn't match is just him spam clicking shit to no effect.
They are literal idiots that don't even play the game and have a wrong concept of mp. They got massacred in the other thread and not because they don't play the ladder (which is fine) but they believe they have valid opinions about it and talk about stuff they don't know
>12 archers >game over
this is such a shit game in competitive multiplayer its not even funny anymore. No rush 20 is unironically the only way to play this game like it was supposed to
PUP for the next month should be up in a few days, post your hopes and expectations.
I'm expecting a Bohemians nerf, the hussite wagon spam is getting annoying. It went from an absolute garbage UU to one of the most moron proof ones just by barely changing a few stats.
You also need to constantly micro them because rams do not auto attack units and will either stand in place or attack a building after they destroy an organ gun.
However, I've noticed in campaigns that siege elephants from indian civs do auto attack units and you could just patrol them in. The problem with both of these anyway is that organ guns are faster than both except for a fully garrisoned ram and can just move away and they can be easily converted by monks or taken down even by villagers.
>they can be easily converted by monks
Siege takes longer to convert and monks require to be in melee range to convert ram, you can quite literally walk away from them
>Siege takes longer to convert and monks require to be in melee range to convert ram, you can quite literally walk away from them
A monk is faster than an un-garrisoned ram, mangonels are better at dealing with organ guns because they have ranged splash damage
>A monk is faster than an un-garrisoned ram
Which is why you never use garrisonless rams and instead exclusively use rams with 6 infantry inside. >mangonels are better at dealing with organ guns because they have ranged splash damage
Correct.
3 months ago
Anonymous
A mangonel is less investment than a ram and six infantry units.
It's just so fricking stupid the whole Portuguese meta, yesterday's game was a prime example >be way behind in eco >put vills on wood and gold >win
I guess the solution against thay is to tank your eco in order to make two defensive castles plus one or two mangos
3 months ago
Anonymous
Portuguese might have to lose either redemption or atonement, currently their all in is way too strong and has no counter or defense on early/mid castle age economies. Their 80 gold monks make up for the loss of a tech anyway and keep them a strong monk civ.
a kipchak and a mangudai are both fancy cavalry archers. hussite wagons and war wagons are both stupid units that don't even properly represent the things they are supposed to.
War wagons are an old unit like the throwing axemen, they don't make a lot of sense but they are too iconic to be changed anymore and both fill a unique role. You could argue that war wagons are tankier cav archers like rattans and plumes are tankier foot archers, meanwhile hussite wagons have no identity other than "war wagon but better".
3 months ago
Anonymous
It's a defensive siege weapon. You're supposed to use it to block/weaken shots against your archers, but the devs made it into a bigger organ gun.
3 months ago
Anonymous
And no one used them like that, its unique mechanic really doesn't work in games like this.
>You could argue that war wagons are tankier cav archers
I always considered them that. What about you? Genuinely curious.
I know they are stats and performance wise, but they also look very out of place. >looks like a siege unit without any weapons on it >fires bolts like scorpions and war galleys
They don't feel like they are CA at all despite being one.
3 months ago
Anonymous
it's stupid because the hussites used their wagons to defend against knights but in game they're bad against knights and used to counter archers. on the other hand korean war wagons should be like an organ gun with a chukonu attack.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Bohemians already have their BS/Uni bonus for advanced quickwalls.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>You could argue that war wagons are tankier cav archers
I always considered them that. What about you? Genuinely curious.
I wish they would just redesign the unit. it is too similar to the korean wagon and both of them don't work anything like the historical thing they are supposed to be based on.
they are both fat school bus looking pieces of shit with a ranged attack. I don't care if one counts as siege and the other is an archer.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Sure, and I suppose a Camel Archer is basically a Mameluke if you're dumb enough.
3 months ago
Anonymous
a kipchak and a mangudai are both fancy cavalry archers. hussite wagons and war wagons are both stupid units that don't even properly represent the things they are supposed to.
>We need to fix pathing >Gets worse >We need to fix pathing >Gets worse >We need to fix pathing >Gets worse
I wonder when morons will figure it out. Should've just let it be.
I do, almost exclusively. It's a difficult transition though, you have to start prepping for it mid feudal. It's easier on maps with a lot of herdables or hunt so you don't overly invest into farms.
The Vietnamese winrate is poor, and it's easy to see that it's (at least partially) because they're an archer civ without the final gold tech.
And no one used them like that, its unique mechanic really doesn't work in games like this.
[...]
I know they are stats and performance wise, but they also look very out of place. >looks like a siege unit without any weapons on it >fires bolts like scorpions and war galleys
They don't feel like they are CA at all despite being one.
They didn't use it for that because the hitbox is too small, and hussite wagons frick up formations, especially after researching SE.
>Expecting a post-imp boom civ to close out the game early
They can easily do that >Treating a mid-castle tech as a mid-imp tech.
If you actually get that tech on castle you must be 900 Elo
>They can easily do that
Sometimes, but they're not designed to outside of laming. >900 elo
I know it's hip to pretend we're all still playing HD, but it's gotten a significant cost decrease. Pretty soon, your favorite streamer will give you permission to grab it before gold runs out on the map.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>but they're not designed to outside of laming.
So you lame a boar and a couple of sheep and you STILL struggle to win early. Average lamer IQ >your favorite streamer will give you permission to grab it before gold runs out on the map
Neat. Will be waiting
3 months ago
Anonymous
Found the disconnect.
Viets played without laming are sub-par. Don't care about boar lames on my open tech tree eco civ.
In an all elephant challenge, why would anyone ever pick Dravidians? The obvious picks are Khmer (best eco, best "standard" elephant, best competitive civ outside elephants, and ranged siege elephant) and Malay (insane discount and fast up time with all relevant upgrades besides armor, and also best competitive civ outside elephants). Bengalis are a situational pick on more closed maps for conversion and bonus damage resistance with decent eco, Persians are situational pick for trash wars and stalemate breaking. Gujaras and Burmese aren't really elephant civs but are decent outside of that. Why would anyone pick Dravidians?
The regeneration is insignificant, 20hp/min with 300hp. For reference berserks do 40hp/min with 74hp. Faster firing is great, but they're still slow to mass and die quickly because no bloodlines/husbandry and lack of a good meat shield. Yeah yeah, you can play them for fun, I personally don't understand how because while Urumi are cool, they make even less sense than a mamluk throwing scimitars from camelback and the whole civ itself is a bastardization of southern Indian cultures and also politically problematic in current Indian politics. For reference, so are the Vikings of Scandinavian cultures and it's problematic in current American politics.
I dont really let things like realism or real world politics influence how much fun the game is for me. Half of the game is not representative of reality and we could talk all day about that. But I think most players dont let things like civ picks get in the way of their enjoyment of the game. I'll play my bad civs and enjoy my time in the lower elo
Yes, I knew from your previous comment that you are ignorant, and in this comment you are commiting to it. Let us all say the oath, "I don't care, it's outside my bubble, I'm having (fun?) in my own way, and I look down upon the idea of politics and politicking." When I don't know what to tell you other than that's how the world is, and I too was mad when I found out because the game looks so promising but turns out it's built upon lies. There's a difference between fantasy and falsehood, SC2 is wonderful fantasy, mamluks throwing scimitars is fantasy, but it just somehow makes sense, like it could be real or is real within the game universe. And then there are things that are simply lies, like the Therisidae, the idea that the Therisidae was actually produced, and the idea that it belonged to the Dravidians and not the Greeks. See?
I'm not ignorant to that fact. Would you also like to comment on the fact that the term "Berber" is racist and is equated to "savages"? Or the term "Slav" being entirely too broad to pin to a single civilization? Or the fact that meso civs are nothing like each other in real life and should have their own distinct looks? This game has always had issues like this, ever since it came out. I'm not sure why we're talking about this though because originally we were talking about gameplay, which is entirely separate.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Yeeeeeessss I would, because interestingly enough Berber is rascist (though let's clear this up, it's not actually about race it's about religion) in almost exactly the same way Hindustani is racist (but it's actually about religion) and Dravidian is racist (still actually about religion, and with this one it's military as well). All of these peoples have been ethnically and religiously intermingling, like both having children and sharing beliefs together, the lines got drawn because the Islamic Caliphate (to be clear, not the religion itself but the government) took over Arabic countries and spread westward into northern African countries and eastward into Indian countries. "Berber" means "north Africans who are not ethnically Arabic, who are also Muslims." Oh and why do they get genitours again? That's a unit that European Spaniards used against the Berbers. Huh. But in reality there is Arabic ethnicity in there, it's just not "Arab passing" as defined by the Caliphate. Please look up The Muslim Brotherhood (Egyptian-based), it's quite similar to The (American-based) Proud Boys. "Hindustani" means "Northern/Middle Indians who are not ethnically Arab, and who practice Hindu." When in reality the ethnicities are very mixed, and many Indians already practiced Islam, they just weren't a part of the Caliphate. It's very similar to the power and influence that the Catholic Church wielded in Europe. And finally with Dravidian, all the same applies to Hindustani, it's just that during the successful Caliphate invasion of India during medieval history, they were stopped halfway down. Hindustani is for the people they conquered, Dravidian is for the people they didn't. And all of this applies on the flip side to European civs, there are very deliberate choices in how they adapt history to the game. And we know it's deliberate because there's some kind of consistency in how it's wrong. Huh.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>everything is LE RACIST
We have this game thanks to that so called racism so if you see it literally everywhere you HAVE to stop playing this
3 months ago
Anonymous
And the Jinete is a Spanish adoption of a West/North African cavalry unit, named after the Zenata tribe from Mauritania.
3 months ago
Anonymous
And yes what I'm getting at here is that the game kinda supports white supremacy and European culture. During development there was a controversy over Janissaries wearing their iconic cylinder hats, and the excuses given by Microsoft were "it looks like the KKK and that would upset players" and "it looks too much like the Pope and that would upset players". When all of those "reasons" are countered by the fact "well, that's what they wore and still wear today for ceremony." And you look at who develops this game, and who the audience for the game is, and it starts making sense and I start getting kinda pissed off because this game and its civs could've been awesome if it weren't for meddling like that. If it was simply a game and not a product. But also with the understanding that a company needs to sell games in order to survive, and that fact checking and doing the due diligence to "properly" translate real history into a game takes a lot of time and effort, it just could've been better. If you make a great game, people will come and stay. If you make a disappointing game, the people will come, but they won't stay unless you continuously pump out more things for them to be disappointed by. Cue the barrage of DLC, the flood of patches that don't really do anything (*ahem* Devotion) and work so sloppy that it's very obvious they read a wiki article and took that as fact (Viking horned helmets, Therisidae, etc).
3 months ago
Anonymous
>kinda supports white supremacy and European culture.
Good.
have a nice day you whiny shitskin.
>bastardization of southern Indian cultures and also politically problematic in current Indian politics
Oh shit who the frick cares. Eat more meat so you have less bowel movements per day and get a toilet. Thank me for putting you way above your peers
the original game was designed around western civilization and its neighbors. going outside of this context with mesoamericans and afrikangz creates stupidity like the aztec castle being a temple and ethiopians being a crossbow civ.
Game was okay with conquerors expansions even though Aztecs and Mayans were out of place but all the we wuz expansions really ruined the game in my opinion
I'm working on a 3 civ Polynesian expansion concept, help me fill in the gaps, balance, or tell me to piss off
No stables for any of them of course, but they would all get a re-skinned eagle warrior
>Tongans
Naval civilisation
Language: Tongan
Wonder: Haʻamonga ʻa Maui atop a platform akin to Paepae o Teleʻa
Team Bonus: fishing/transport ships +2 LOS
Bonuses: >naval techs an age earlier >farms generate wood in addition to food (4 wood per minute?) >first dock produces a Drua with auto-scout >loom gives twice the normal health
Unique Units: >Toa (wielding an Akau Tau) high HP fast speed raiding unit with no armor (eagle warrior fast) >Drua, fast moving 5 capacity transport ship, fires arrows when garrisoned
Unique Tech: >Stick chart (all ships +2 LOS)
?
>Maoris
Infantry and defensive civilisation
Language: Maori
Wonder: a really big fancy Wharenui
Team Bonus: ?
Bonuses: >spearmen move 10% faster >castles provide additional +10 population space >infantry in groups of at least 15 gain +1 damage >slain villagers refund 15 food
Unique Unit: >Rangatira, slow to create, low stats, increases attack speed of nearby infantry
Unique Tech: >Waka taua - galley line +2 vs buildings >Pā - half of castle stone cost replaced with wood cost
>Hawaiians
Naval and monk civ
Language: Hawaiian
Wonder: Pi'ilanihale Heiau (but embellished to look good (throw a moai on top))
Team Bonus: ?
Bonuses: >skirmishers have no minimum range >docks produce 1 food per minute passively >idle infantry heal over time
Unique Unit: >Aliʻi, infantry unit (wielding a leiomano), additional damage to villagers, trade carts and economy buildings
Unique Tech: ?
?
Most things here either aren't useful or are being used by another civ, and as factions, they would each be unplayable, even without looking at tech trees.
If you're being serious, look at actual civs in the game and understand what makes them work. Learn about the eco and tech trees to see how each civ is modified by the bonuses and techs.
>3 polynesian civs
Frick off
Also >naval techs an age earlier
Fire ship in feudal age, fast fires in castle age, it would be busted. >farms generate wood in addition to food (4 wood per minute?) >Stalemate on water map = win the game like feitoria >Stick chart (all ships +2 LOS)
Almost useless >spearmen move 10% faster
Already exists in Lithuanians >castles provide additional +10 population space
Meaningless, doesn't help in dark/feudal age >infantry in groups of at least 15 gain +1 damage
Not going to do much >Waka taua - galley line +2 vs buildings
Almost worthless >Pā - half of castle stone cost replaced with wood cost
Already exists in Slavs >skirmishers have no minimum range
Useless >docks produce 1 food per minute passively
Laughable even Gurjaras have a better return
Most things here either aren't useful or are being used by another civ, and as factions, they would each be unplayable, even without looking at tech trees.
If you're being serious, look at actual civs in the game and understand what makes them work. Learn about the eco and tech trees to see how each civ is modified by the bonuses and techs.
Actually, Tonga could work, but essentially free farms from the moment you get heavy plow is too extreme, and war galley early would break the game.
>war galley early would break the game
That's fair, maybe careening and dry dock early instead?
>I'm working on a 3 civ Polynesian expansion concept
But why
Also as much as I would like to see polynesians they don't fit in as a civilization. For the meso civs they already had to change plenty of concepts to fit them into the game and add stuff like eagle warriors which I dislike. Like how would their architecture would look like? Their castles? Wonders? Cavalry? etc
It would be too hard to fit them into the game
>but why
For fun!
Most things here either aren't useful or are being used by another civ, and as factions, they would each be unplayable, even without looking at tech trees.
If you're being serious, look at actual civs in the game and understand what makes them work. Learn about the eco and tech trees to see how each civ is modified by the bonuses and techs.
>3 polynesian civs
Frick off
Also >naval techs an age earlier
Fire ship in feudal age, fast fires in castle age, it would be busted. >farms generate wood in addition to food (4 wood per minute?) >Stalemate on water map = win the game like feitoria >Stick chart (all ships +2 LOS)
Almost useless >spearmen move 10% faster
Already exists in Lithuanians >castles provide additional +10 population space
Meaningless, doesn't help in dark/feudal age >infantry in groups of at least 15 gain +1 damage
Not going to do much >Waka taua - galley line +2 vs buildings
Almost worthless >Pā - half of castle stone cost replaced with wood cost
Already exists in Slavs >skirmishers have no minimum range
Useless >docks produce 1 food per minute passively
Laughable even Gurjaras have a better return
Let's start from the concepts: What gameplay experience are you trying to deliver with each civ? So far, I'm seeing Naval Mesos x 3.
E.g: "I want a cavalry civ that shifts towards gunpowder in the castle age, leaning hard into it from the second they hit the imperial age." (Turks).
Good idea (it is tricky to not make them feel same-y)
Tongans
powerful navy with particularly good exploration and spearmen >naval tech early (Pacific Islanders were sailing the globe way before Europeans were) >beefy infantry good at raiding, and trash UU (they never figured out metallurgy) >a bonus to boost early food or fatten up villagers (they would sail from island to island eating everything they saw, made lots of species extinct this way)
Maoris
defensive civ, fast infantry adept at raiding, particularly good at destroying buildings >focus on wood over stone (a la cuman palisades) and units buffing eachother (eg the UU i proposed) >some reference to cannibalism >some reference to infantry war dances (eg group damage bonus)
Hawaiians
monastery focus, incentive to go skirmishers over archers >considering a naval UU that can convert but that might be OP >bonus vs economy/villagers (Hawaiian shark tooth weapons are particularly effective against fleshy targets (RIP captain cook)) >docks generating food passively (Hawaiian fish traps were effective in very shallow water)
In order to make good civ suggestions, you'll really need to be familiar with the game.
I'm being completely serious here. Set this idea to the side, push until you hit 1700 on the ranked ladder, and feel comfortable playing both Arabia and a naval rotation map at at least that level, then revisit the idea.
>naval UU that can convert
They nearly had this in the base game all those years ago 11
It would probably work fine but would possibly feel a bit pointless
>I'm working on a 3 civ Polynesian expansion concept
But why
Also as much as I would like to see polynesians they don't fit in as a civilization. For the meso civs they already had to change plenty of concepts to fit them into the game and add stuff like eagle warriors which I dislike. Like how would their architecture would look like? Their castles? Wonders? Cavalry? etc
It would be too hard to fit them into the game
They wouldn't have cavalry
I have an outline for the architecture >House: a traditional Tongan fale will suit perfectly. chuck a Yap stone coin outside as an easter egg. >Barracks: to me, Hale o Keawe looks like a typical AoE2 barracks, with the palisade walls and all >Archery range: similarly to the American civs the Polynesians weren't known for their archery, so some artistic liberties are required here >Stables: N/A >Monastery: will need to be creative but the remaining Hawaiian heiau sites as well as sketches of these from the early colonists will provide plenty of foundation >University: something akin to a Maori wharenui >Castle: a mashup of a Pā and the stonework of Nan Madol or Talietumu
Wow, thanks janny for actually h-- >scrolls down one thread >OP picture is foot fetish art of fire emblem characters
two steps forward one step back i guess
It's time to split Vikings into Swedes, Danes and Norwegians. All three will share a unique unit from the Barracks called Viking (upgrades into Viking Warrior in Castle Age and Elite Viking Warrior in Imperial Age).
It costs only 50f, 10g and acts like a worse Eagle Warrior. It also gains gold when killing enemy monks and villagers.
Civ specific bonuses:
Swedes: More HP or armor
Danes: Higher attack
Norwegians: Cheaper
>Seethe more Poojeets.
Not a fricking pajeet you bloody simpleton, I simply tire to read these mind numblingly dumb posts that come from people that actually don't play the game
Today I got reminded why feudal eagles suck and why everyone only uses them exclusively with archers
Still won, but seeing eagles barely catching up to archers while still getting murdered by archers felt no different than using celtic MAAs.
Eagles should nowhere be this terrible in feudal, but if the devs buff them then Mayans become imba, stronger than they already are
they dogshit in feudal, even spears counters them pretty well, it takes 30 sec to recruit them so you need multiple barracks, single good thing it low food cost so spamming them in feudal won't delay you castle that much.
They'd get shut down by MAA so it would be perfectly ok to have them useable in feudal not just for scouting.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Could just add a few archers and they'd shut down those MAA.
Perhaps reducing PA by 1 in Feudal could be a way to balance them.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Could just add a few skirmishers and they'd shut down those archers.
Maybe that's what the game is about isn't it?
3 months ago
Anonymous
They are absolutely not.
Basically what
Could just add a few archers and they'd shut down those MAA.
Perhaps reducing PA by 1 in Feudal could be a way to balance them.
and I said in my original post, feudal eagles by themselves are bad but paired with archers they become good, but still not worth using as standalone units.
I'd give them +1 PA and some speed, they barely can catch up to archers
3 months ago
Anonymous
You need 5 archers and then you can switch to all in eagles in feudal
He's not wrong. Memb and Nili put a lot more thought into map selection, design and civ drafts in NAC4/5 and Warlords 2 while T90 picks too few maps and they are either gimmicky or badly designed. Islands and Mudflow are especially bad from what I've seen during the qualifiers. >Islands
Boring galleyslop all the way until one player runs out of wood, islands even smaller than usual making landing even more difficult. >Mudflow
T90 has this weird obsession with TCs surrounded by shallows so players can't farm around it, so everyone plays extended feudal because farms are usually completely exposed and it is easy to do game ending damage before getting to castle. Late feudal is just as boring as water is due to its extremely limited unit roster.
Quarry needs minor adjustments like what he suggested and Gold Rush/4lakes and its variations have been featured in the last ~5 tournaments, making the map pool feel even more limited in variety. At least Slopes has good matches but it seems like gold runs out much faster than normal.
I generally like Memb's maps, BoA maps are really standout imo. Nili might have more custom ones but all they seem to be rather boomy. Don't really care for them tbh. T90's only decent map pool came out of Wandering Warrior's cup imo. (2nd WWC never ever btw)
I still think aoe has bad maps in general. I want to see maps with sc style resource distribution where you have to send workers around the map by castle age, not just after you have built 80 farms in your main.
swordsman are dumb and only exist as a legacy feature from aoe1. the counter triangle should simply be barracks > stable > range > barracks where the gold unit also counters its own trash unit.
yes but militia line get's countered literally be everything aside skirms, eagles, hussars and it's ridiculous.
>wants shitty sc maps in the game for no reason other than muh sc autism >moronic game design idea that would fundamentally change a 25 years old game >eagles counter swordsmen
Do you even play the game?
>Do you even play the game?
There are like three dudes thay play the game. Everybody else just post moronic civ proposals, stupid balance changes and such
Dunno, it breaks the usual build orders a little and forces you to expand I guess.
As for Islands, yeah, but the HC5 version has less wood on purpose so it's shorter.
Main event is supposed to have all new maps, I think.
What are some other regional units that could be introduced, aside from vikings? We could also rename that potential unit to "raider" and give it to Vikings, Celts and Slavs. Perhaps at the same time as we split Slavs.
>place new farms >existing farmers move over 10 tiles to build these instead of their own >farmer assigned to that farm goes idle
why the frick does this keep happening?
I like where he's heading with them, but feel like many of the buffs aren't enough. Militia line needs more than a <2% increase in movement speed.
I think base speed should be 0.95, and then get Squires available from Feudal Age. Or, they just get +1 PA (so MAA/LS tarts with +2, which turns into +3 with Gambesons and +5 with all upgrades. Romans will then have +6 PA Long Swordsmen.
I think his rationale is disagreeable, but the changes themselves are tame.
However, I'm not supporting Huns getting steppe lancers. Especially not after seeing what giving Mongols steppe lancers did.
And I'm not supporting your suggestion at all.
>Push with champions and siege >Maybe getting a few vill kills will switch the game in my favor as I lose castles, production and ground.
Raids alone don't win games, there are more important things like microing archers/onagers/scorpions/bombard cannons and you need some hussars for your meat shield
It doesn't. It beats knights on spread formation, it beats siege when partnered with siege towers, it beats massed archer when you play battering ram without running into the mass, and it tears buildings, eagles, and monks apart while resisting trash. You just never learned how to use them.
They do, but since longswords train slowly, you have to start massing them before castle age and grab relevant BS techs.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>longswords train slowly
homie you don't play the game.
3 months ago
Anonymous
21 seconds per LS (65 res after Supplies) means ~3.14 res/sec/barrack.
30 seconds per knight is 4.5 res/sec/stable.
That's about 66% as fast, so yes, they train slowly. They also reinforce and reposition slowly, and need many upgrades before they're set.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Autistic spirit of the law wannabe idiot shut the frick up. Go and make LSs against knights you homosexual
3 months ago
Anonymous
wow this changes literally nothing
3 months ago
Anonymous
>"Stables work ~50% faster than barracks"
Yup, sure does feel like nothing.
3 months ago
Anonymous
What kind of eco do you need to produce from three stables and compare that with three barracks production. Pretty obvious that you are a moron, which makes you fit in this board and playerbase just right
3 months ago
Anonymous
A knight is 135 total res, longsword w supplies is 65 total res. So a knight should have good stats to compensate.
A knight with bloodlines has the health of two longswords, an extra attack and an extra armor. Against +2 armor knights a longsword deals 5 damage, you need forging to take down a +2 knight in 20 hits. A knight has 10 base attack so it will deal 7 damage against a +2 longsword killing it in 9 hits. Also the knight player can retreat the low HP knights to his monastery and heal them back up to full.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Assuming equal investment in BS techs, Longswords will each deal 7 damage with each hit, and take 9 damage in return from each knight. 16 hits to kill vs 6, but leaving out the 2:1 ratio, the ability to mass spears, and the fact that longswords can take arson and down buildings if the knights ever retreat while they're healing. From there, teching gambeson is easy if they go for archers.
What kind of eco do you need to produce from three stables and compare that with three barracks production. Pretty obvious that you are a moron, which makes you fit in this board and playerbase just right
How dumb are you to see "Stables each work 50% faster than barracks" and think I'm comparing 3 stable with 3 barracks?
3 months ago
Anonymous
16 vs 6 is still pretty favorable for the knights, doubling down on longswords doesn't make sense, knights are better in combat and for raiding. There is no reason to get attack upgrades, I would rather extra pikemen than forging and throw in some monks. Knight and scorpion is also deadly to full infantry plays
3 months ago
Anonymous
>16 vs 6 is still pretty favorable for the knights
In a chokepoint, absolutely. Otherwise, no. Especially if the other guy ever mixes in spears/pikes.
And yeah, knight/scorp absolutely can be devastating to infantry, provided you have good positioning.
That's where it turns into a battering ram push and pike-siege.
>I'm comparing stables with barracks, not stables with barracks, OK?
What a dumb fricking idiot you are. Thanks for vomiting your stupidity and doubling down on it, it's always good to have a reminder of the kid of morons with no brains that we we are dealing here. Now go be black somewhere else you low IQ monkey
>3 stable knights is the same as 2 stable knights
Are you a bot, or just lonely?
3 months ago
Anonymous
>I'm comparing stables with barracks, not stables with barracks, OK?
What a dumb fricking idiot you are. Thanks for vomiting your stupidity and doubling down on it, it's always good to have a reminder of the kid of morons with no brains that we we are dealing here. Now go be black somewhere else you low IQ monkey
>Holy frick just make skirmishes you dumb fricks.
Still dies hard because everyone will field archer + scouts or archers + skirms and you will die regardless. >The militia line is not supposed to counter archers.
To the point nobody uses infantry? Stop being dumb.
Nobody uses the militia line because it's slower than all of the units it's supposed to beat, leaving it as something you task to enemy production buildings only during a tower push.
Bumping the speed from 0.9 to 0.92 isnt nearly enough. It's less than a 2% increase, and they'll still be slower than archers.
3 months ago
Anonymous
True, militia-line needs to be faster than archers from the get go, but knowing the devs, they will never buff/nerf archers since the latter is such a staple unit and aoe2 playerbase is rather set in stone with its meta
3 months ago
Anonymous
True, militia-line needs to be faster than archers from the get go, but knowing the devs, they will never buff/nerf archers since the latter is such a staple unit and aoe2 playerbase is rather set in stone with its meta
They're supposed to be slower than archers. Kiting infantry is intended play for archer civs.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>intended play for archer civs.
I suppose that's why CAs got their frame delay nerfed long time ago so its harder for them to micro, but not for archers which can still smoothly micro everything down, eh?
Tosser.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Yeah. Best explanation I have is that cav archers are designed to be archers with better map presence, like archers that happen to ride around between fights.
>>And don't you dare tell me the answer is skirmishers!
It's really not. >What are Burmese and Turk players doing in this matchup?
Lots of cavalry.
And if the other guy has pikes?
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Best explanation I have is that cav archers are designed to be archers with better map presence, like archers that happen to ride around between fights.
That's bloody stupid and you know it, more reasonable would be to have archers filling a role of 'stand and shoot' kind of deal, similar how AoM archers work, and let CAs be the one with lots of microability and maneuverability.
But as it is right now, foot archers have much better microability than mounted archers themselves, and that's stupid, there's barely any reason to use CAs if your civ does not specialize on them and you are always much better using archer-line instead.
Nor it's historically accurate either, for what that argument is worth.
3 months ago
Anonymous
The major weakness of archers is their inability to fight in multiple locations. Cav archers can fight anywhere.
>And if the other guy has pikes?
You kill the pikes
[...]
Teaching a dumb feature indeed
Kill them with?
3 months ago
Anonymous
>The major weakness of archers is their inability to fight in multiple locations
Doesnt matter because fighting archers is so hard you need to go out of your way to counter them, moreso than CAs. >Cav archers can fight anywhere.
Does not really matter when LC, camels and ballistic skirms/xbows fricks them up very hard, and knights can still chase them away
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Doesnt matter because fighting archers is so hard you need to go out of your way to counter them, moreso than CAs.
Yeah, and CAs can choose not to engage with threats to them, making them (individually) much more aggressive raiders. Their issue is their awful default accuracy.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>And if the other guy has pikes?
You kill the pikes
Art of War campaign literally encourages archer kiting to finish it with gold lel. Go play a 4x shit lord
Teaching a dumb feature indeed
3 months ago
Anonymous
>dumb feature >Noooo my units should just stand there reeee it's more realistic
kys homosexual go play Michi
3 months ago
Anonymous
1) Bet you dont even play the game
2) Michi sucks, also BF
3 months ago
Anonymous
>1) Bet you dont even play the game
3 months ago
Anonymous
Alright I stand corrected.
Archers are still stupid and should get nerfed still.
3 months ago
Anonymous
how is 1500 elo compared to 1000? I'd rather stay with total noobs like me to be honest.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>how is 1500 elo compared to 1000?
More strict, you need to know the meta or at the very least know how to handle it, archers and scouts is very common so if you dont know how to handle it you're doneso, that's for arabia at least.
But in general, there's less room for dicking around unlike in 1000 ELO.
swordsman are dumb and only exist as a legacy feature from aoe1. the counter triangle should simply be barracks > stable > range > barracks where the gold unit also counters its own trash unit.
>Georgians get Warrior Priest (it is literally a Georgian design) >Slavs renamed Rus >Britons renamed English >Villagers and units have skin colour to match their civ
NEW DLCS >Mandate of Heaven: Jurchens, Tibetans and Khitans >African Chronicle: Songhais, Somalians and Shona, Saracens split to become Mamluks and Abbasids >Balkan Renaissance: Vlach, Hasburgs, Serbs
No more deer luring, deer color on the minimap changed to something more easily visible, Flemish Revolution rework, and the Briton range advantage ends at +2 for non-longbow archers.
>Georgians get Warrior Priest (it is literally a Georgian design) >Slavs renamed Rus >Britons renamed English >Villagers and units have skin colour to match their civ
NEW DLCS >Mandate of Heaven: Jurchens, Tibetans and Khitans >African Chronicle: Songhais, Somalians and Shona, Saracens split to become Mamluks and Abbasids >Balkan Renaissance: Vlach, Hasburgs, Serbs
>mongols but different >Black folk >fricking Hasburgs as a civ
Average /vst/urd civ splitter
This might be a long list but none of these are important and the game is perfectly fine without any of it. >Gameplay changes
Introduce tournament maps to ranked rotation
Involve tournament map makers in updating maps, the last time we had a significant change was to add carpets, push deer further away and unfrick starting woodline generation on Arabia almost a year ago
Heavily nerf or completely rework Gurjaras
Make deer that spawn a certain distance away from starting TCs unpushable >QoL/muh immersion changes
Give each civ a unique castle, sell them as DLC if necessary
Rename Slavs to Rus, basically all relevant slav civs were added by now so this title is outdated
Bohemians (and Magyars?) moved to central euro, Persians to central asian architecture set - both civs were heavily influenced by western architecture, especially the urbanized Bohemians and Persian architecture is much more central asian than middle eastern
Sell campaigns as DLCs
[...] >mongols but different >Black folk >fricking Hasburgs as a civ
Average /vst/urd civ splitter
Spleeters are moronic, but you could argue that if the Burgundians got in as Franks but better gunpowder, the Habsburgs could too as Teutons but better gunpowder. The question is if we NEED another cavalry and gunpowder civ because there's already a lot of those.
>but you could argue that if the Burgundians got in as Franks but better gunpowder
Well adding burgundy was a mistake anyways, should have been de Dutch and let them die as another water civ. Maybe their mills could also give gold like Civ V (I don't know much about them anyways as you might have noticed)
Burgundy got in solely based on gameplay merit and theme, being a taste of Age of Empires 3 with redefined counter relationships for infantry and gunpowder units.
And gold from mills is just dumb. They're a "Greater Lowlands" civ anyway, just with paladins instead of naval tech.
Remove the archerline entirely
Buff infantry
Buff cavalry archer
Give huns, magyars and turks steppies
Give dravs elite bellies
Give malay, burmese and khmer ram elephants
better than having a deer decide to run in circles around a house or get within 3 tiles of your tc but then decide to slowly walk back to where it started.
yeah let me just make my own build order that's slower for no reason and can afford less units than people who played the deer minigame but at least I'm being original. I think it's funny how everyone finally admitted that pointless apm sinks like larva inject were shit in sc2, but everyone still defends the dark age creeping shit in this game.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>yeah let me just make my own build order that's slower for no reason
"Slower" build orders have better econ, and the point of the dark age is to set up an economy to match your intended play. This isn't Starcraft, where you just spam blue mineral for everything. Timing things like wood:food conversion rate and carry capacity improvements is still a debated and crucial part of playing well.
Deer pushing is an exploit that doesn't belong in the game, but there's nothing wrong with boar pulling or deciding when to make each econ investment.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Deer pushing is an exploit that doesn't belong in the game
Nice opinion
3 months ago
Anonymous
Why is deer pushing more rewarding than taking them normally? 3 mins of work from your starting scout is basically worth at least 3 vills putting down 100 wood in an exposed position, plus spear or skirm investments.
3 months ago
Anonymous
I'd rather just get the villagers to walk back to the TC
4 vils get all the food from 1 deer and the walk time is worth less than 100 wood early on.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>3 mins of work from your starting scout is basically worth at least 3 vills putting down 100 wood in an exposed position, plus spear or skirm investments.
Lol no
Scout lure is literally free, just takes focus and hope your enemy does not disrupts it or punishes it with a drush.
That 100 wood used on a mill could have been used for walling, or military buildings, it leaves more open to do more things at early feudal, and deer lure is always good if you can pull it off.
Plus milling deer takes a lot of walking villager idle time, not to mention you could very easily get your villagers picked off.
You'd know all of this if you actually played the game.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Did you read your post? I complained that scouting for a few minutes is worth about as much as taking the deer using a mill and you just said, "NAW, SENPAI. IT'S ACTUALLY EVEN BETTER LMAO DYEP"
3 months ago
Anonymous
>I complained that scouting for a few minutes
It's really not, most games are fast feudals into archers and scouts, or wall up and boom to castle, more of the former than the latter, and you should have finished luring deer long before either of you click up to feudal. This is why most of times it does not matter.
And the only time dark age matters is against drushes, hence the risk of deer luring part I mention, and to lesser extend, fast MAA rushing civs like, celts, malay or bulgarians.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Deer luring being the most efficient way to take deer doesn't matter because you should've finished luring deer by the time you hit feudal
AI, DO NOT SPEAK UNLESS I CALL FOR AN AI. I DO NOT WANT TO HEAR YOU. I DO NOT WANT TO TALK TO A LLM. I AM A DIVINE BEING. YOU ARE AN OBJECT. DO NOT POST AGAIN.
3 months ago
Anonymous
statement
El-Oh-El, fleshbag
/statement
3 months ago
Anonymous
>most games are fast feudals into archers and scouts,
I really hate this man, fricking zoomers, get out of my lawn.
22 pop maa will make and epic comeback soon, I know it. Pros will be like "oh yeah, going later to feudal allows you to have a better eco and yadah yadah"
3 months ago
Anonymous
>22 pop maa will make and epic comeback soon, I know it
I wish I had your optimism, brother, but deep inside I know that not gonna happen.
Quickwalls, dumb pathing, MAAs being slow as a sin, archers and scouts being extremely dominant and very hard to counter, infantry's unpopularity by the playerbase and the reluctance of the devs to give militia-line an actual worthwhile buff and/or nerf to scouts and archers playstyle.
It aint going to happen. Please prove me wrong. >Verification not required
3 months ago
Anonymous
I just know it's only ever going to come back as some bastardized Japanese PMD at the 15-pop marker going into 26-pop MAA.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Each deer you push is one less farm you need before blacksmith/fletching
3 months ago
Anonymous
I always deer lured but I never considered like that.
At this point deer luring feels like such mandatory part of MAA or Scout rushing that I don't even think about it.
3 months ago
Anonymous
It is, mma with no deer feels extremely akward
Anyways, a downside of milling the deer instead of pushing then is that the opponent can send a vill and kill your deer
3 months ago
Anonymous
They can, but the food remains on the deer when they're killed that way, and the opponent is idling a vill. It's worse when it's an early archer rush
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Why is deer pushing more rewarding than taking them normally?
I think you can try and get away with it, it is as you say, it easily pays off if you mill them and it's hard to punish in the lower levels, thing is if you do it in dark age you will have less vills under your tc and opponent can snipe your sheep. Four vills is what you need for one deer
3 months ago
Anonymous
How does using a scout to pull deer lead to you having fewer vills under the TC or imply you haven't gathered your sheep?
3 months ago
Anonymous
No, I meant that will happen if he will mill the deer, not push it
3 months ago
Anonymous
I said slower for no reason. a build that starts with 5 on wood and makes a gold camp before going up at 21 is not going to have a better econ than a standard build that goes up on 20.
Extra food in dark age is almost a must have, and always worth luring even if deer pathing is moronic. Still deer luring is very important.
Just because you don't like it or can't deer push doesnt mean it's a bad thing.
deer pushing is a shit apm sink. all it does is test players to see if they can multitask enough to keep up with bullshit random movement while not messing up the rest of their build.
>it's the sc2 tard at it again
No, you don't have to push deer. I can easily pull a 19 pop scouts/archer opening on Arabia without pushing in a single deer while being mid elo, because the gather rate increase from it is insignificant unless you are 2k+ and you are going for 18 pop feudal with no loom.
Do you even play the game or are you here just to shitpost about starcraft?
[...]
hey Liereyy good luck in HC5
yeah you can do it without deer but against a player who did even one deer you will have 140 less food that could have been spent on a spear to defend from your scouts or another scout to have more than you or just getting to castle a few seconds faster.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>deer pushing is a shit apm sink.
Scrub take. >all it does is test players to see if they can multitask enough to keep up with bullshit random movement while not messing up the rest of their build.
Just because you can't keep up does not mean it's a bad thing, maybe try improving your skills instead of sharing dumb takes.
3 months ago
Anonymous
moron you don't even have a point to make. you say it's not an apm sink but then say to get good. which is it?
3 months ago
Anonymous
>moron you don't even have a point to make
I have, you simply ignored it. >you say it's not an apm sink
It feels like an APM sink for you because you have low APM and/or terrible attention span, half decent player can lure deer effortlessly so long the deer dont act moronic. >then say to get good
Indeed you should get good.
3 months ago
Anonymous
so you admit that it's an apm sink but are moving the goalposts to claim that it's not a big deal >so long the deer dont act moronic
which is like every other game
3 months ago
Anonymous
>so you admit that it's an apm sink
It's not. You just feel like that because you suck.
An actual APM sink would be microing monks. Deer luring is not. >which is like every other game
Yeah, but still worth to try, free food is too good to pass on.
Last (You).
3 months ago
Anonymous
cloning monks isn't an apm sink. deer herding is the same as larva inject in sc2. stupid shit that takes extra clicks for no reason except that you fall behind if you don't do it.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>deer herding is the same as larva inject in sc2. stupid shit that takes extra clicks for no reason except that you fall behind if you don't do it.
Why are zoomzooms so soulless?
3 months ago
Anonymous
>I said slower for no reason. a build that starts with 5 on wood and makes a gold camp before going up at 21 is not going to have a better econ than a standard build that goes up on 20
Then don't do that.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Extra food in dark age is almost a must have, and always worth luring even if deer pathing is moronic. Still deer luring is very important.
Just because you don't like it or can't deer push doesnt mean it's a bad thing.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>it's the sc2 tard at it again
No, you don't have to push deer. I can easily pull a 19 pop scouts/archer opening on Arabia without pushing in a single deer while being mid elo, because the gather rate increase from it is insignificant unless you are 2k+ and you are going for 18 pop feudal with no loom.
Do you even play the game or are you here just to shitpost about starcraft?
I'd rather just get the villagers to walk back to the TC
4 vils get all the food from 1 deer and the walk time is worth less than 100 wood early on.
>UUs too similar to regular units become regular unit upgrades (longbowman, samurai, woad raider, rattan archer and so on) >Cav Archer created at the stable. >Petards do 100 damage to units instead of 25. >More civs get access to Steppe Lancer, Winged Hussar, Legionaire >Less civs get access to Cav archer >Less civs get access to fully upgraded regular units such as champions, halberdiers, paladins and hussars. >Armenians, Bulgarians, Byzantines and Georgians get a new architecture set >Persians get Central Asian architecture set >Bohemains get Central European architecture set
>Stop fricking asking for changes to it dumbfrick
Why would he do that. He wants a good pathing. That's a change. It would be a good change if these eat eating Indian devs managed to do it.
>Turks with Berbers because genitours >Italians with infantry civ because of condos >Vietnamese with archer civs because of skirmishers
If you want to die in 2v2, Goth condos need more team mates to sling and stone walls. The other combinations will just get defeated by standard knight xbow play
Only the most b***h of b***hes keep bringing that up. Look at you homosexual, anyone wanting to leave this community have all the right reasons to do so
I know but what if I want him to run away instead of fighting? I can't just click back to my base because he will take one step and then reaggro on the wolf.
Age of Empires II: Definitive Edition: We’ll reveal a brand-new campaign-focused expansion and an extended look at exclusive gameplay.
https://www.ageofempires.com/news/new-year-new-age-announcement/
>campaign-focused expansion
Finally the devs fricking heard.
Like it's all cool but we have too many civs and I will be content with just having more campaigns
>an entire day of seething over deer
I'll do it on maps where they spawn close by, but on Arabia I will take map information over 60 wood saved in a mid feudal economy any time of the day.
>AoM Retold
fricking finally >AoE Mobile
This has to be for the asian market, mobile games are huge there and no one else would ever bother playing an RTS on phone.
I also wonder how AoE3 is doing lately.
That nerf made pushing deer even less viable, you can push 2-3 deer in on other maps while you push 1 on Arabia and it is very debatable if that is worth the effort. Milling deer was always risky and it is not any less profitable than it was before, assuming you go out to take them in feudal when you have the eco to keep up production while 4 vills are moving.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Milling is also worse, if your mill villagers get caught out by army they aren't getting back to the TC
3 months ago
Anonymous
The distance affects both the risk and gather rate more than the minor inconvenience that comes with scout idle time.
Realistically if they got caught outside by an army that is a threat to them they wouldn't be able to make it back to the TC anyway on either generation.
I do want to run some tests like SotL does to see how much time milling deer requires and how much scouting info are you missing from pushing and compare it with old Arabia.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Realistically if they got caught outside by an army that is a threat to them they wouldn't be able to make it back to the TC anyway on either generation.
Moving vills during an attack is much more complex than that.
3 months ago
Anonymous
If their gather point is in the TC (safe) they'll have a larger chance to be on their way home by the time enemies appear.
If they're dropping off on a mill, it either has a tower nearby to garison them in or they'll be nowhere near as safe if they were walking towards the town center.
Reminder that 4 vills per deer is enough to get all food in one trip so I stand by my earlier point that it's just better to have the hunters walk a bit.
3 months ago
Anonymous
There really has to be a point where sane people stop trying to argue the ridiculous. Someone towering deer is virtually unheard of, and it being necessary to explain how an increase in distance impacts scout-luring more than villager-luring, should be a massive sign to anyone that the argument being made is untenable.
3 months ago
Anonymous
I never said you should tower deer, but deer can definitely spawn near gold/trees where you could build a tower to protect other resource gatherers.
3 months ago
Anonymous
I mean you could, we've seen pros walk vills for deer before, but it is so inefficient it might be worth milling anyway. You obviously will need army presence to defend them with or enough map control to get away with sneaking out of your base either way. Towering your deer of all things preemptively is just a waste however.
All this talk for deer milling really shows the average poster here is below 800 ELO
Literally anywhere else you'd get laugh at by suggesting deer milling nowadays. >Verification not required
>nooo you cannot discuss early economy you HAVE to follow the build order I paid 50 dollars for!
whatever you say you 1k gigashitter
3 months ago
Anonymous
>>nooo you cannot discuss early economy you HAVE to follow the build order
Deer luring is not inherently a BO thing, is something you can pull off, similar to boar lure. Dumbass. >the build order I paid 50 dollars for!
I come up with my own BO's I'm not a shitter nor a simp that buys BOs from pros.
3 months ago
Anonymous
what the hell are you talking about army presence? the whole point of deer herding is getting extra food in dark age. and building a mill on deer means not building a mill on shrubs which means you are losing 750 food to gain 420. unless you are building 2 mills, but then you won't have enough wood to build your stable/range as soon as you hit feudal unless you take workers off food for wood which defeats the purpose of going after deer to begin with.
3 months ago
Anonymous
It will also delay consuming all the berries, and you don't want food vills in berries past late feudal
3 months ago
Anonymous
If you haven't noticed, I am talking about going out for the leftover deer in feudal, not once have I suggested milling the deer in dark age but of course you lack reading comprehension.
1) Lots of walking vill idle time
2) Can be easily picked off by an early game rush
3) 100 wood wasted instead of using it for literally anything
4) Scouting is not that important outside drushes and lames
Those are your arguments, shitter.
No matter what you say the truth is unchanging
Deer Lure is better than Milling Deer.
God I hate noobs that talk without knowing anything about the game.
>oh no I have 4 villagers walking out of 25 my efficiency is not 95% this is gg >oh no I did not make a single unit or gain map control in any way >100 wood invested into taking 3x140 extra food is le bad trust me dude >has 0 map info and builds a cuck shed for a base
For someone whose only argument was and still is just calling other people shitters and brag about your OC donutsteel build orders you sure have no idea what you are talking about and would rather discuss civ spleets instead of how to play the game.
Post your elo if you even have any.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Post your elo if you even have any.
Alright I stand corrected.
Archers are still stupid and should get nerfed still.
, now post yours.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>I am talking about going out for the leftover deer in feudal
you went off on a tangent then because everyone else was talking about how you are forced to herd deer in dark age or fall behind
3 months ago
Anonymous
>unless you are building 2 mills, but then you won't have enough wood to build your stable/range as soon as you hit feudal unless you take workers off food for wood
Build the mill only when vill inventories are full.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Then your not going to have food for scouts/your blacksmith is going up late
3 months ago
Anonymous
Neither.
3 months ago
Anonymous
The distance affects both the risk and gather rate more than the minor inconvenience that comes with scout idle time.
This is basically a Halberdier with better pierce armor and that doesn't take bonus damage against skirms. Also +2 attack over the Halb which makes it better in general melee fights.
Longbowman replaces Crossbow at the Archery Range.
It keeps AoE2 clean of anybody who actually wants to play a proper competitive game. It's literal luck when the deer decide to not be herded when you do everything properly.
>wonder how long before he burns out.
Burned our arc it's way over. Why you think he went to aoe4 and lol(or was it Dota?)
He wants to be the next viper but viper could appeal to the western audience easily just by being white
Is the mule cart good on cross, with Georgians you will go to wood a bit later but you don't need to make lumber camp, a shame everything about the civ is ass except the UU
>pros/high Elos make blunders >noooo it's not realistic to expect that in my 1200 Elo!
There is plenty of reasons to shit on Hera, just pick a valid one please
>Just micro better bro
What are some cool/interesting matches?
Goths vs Bulgarians
Japanese vs Burmese
Huns vs Huns
If their gather point is in the TC (safe) they'll have a larger chance to be on their way home by the time enemies appear.
If they're dropping off on a mill, it either has a tower nearby to garison them in or they'll be nowhere near as safe if they were walking towards the town center.
Reminder that 4 vills per deer is enough to get all food in one trip so I stand by my earlier point that it's just better to have the hunters walk a bit.
A tower for your deer is a big investment, a mill isn't worth it on Arabia when you take 200 km to walk there
It's really not 200km
4 vills still bring all the food. Unless you can get 6+ deer with a single mill it's worth not building it and saving the wood while your scout is being useful.
>Hera makes a video about using a unit or countering a strat >Wins either because of good macro, or because his opponent makes an exploitable, easily-fixed blunder. >Shows off the relevant item for the video, even if it played only a small part in his victory or was eclipsed by some other factor >Comments treat it as the best thing ever
>pros/high Elos make blunders >noooo it's not realistic to expect that in my 1200 Elo!
There is plenty of reasons to shit on Hera, just pick a valid one please
I'm not talking about minor mistakes. I mean game-deciding mistakes like an opponent refusing to garrison his monks during a push or make a unit that doesn't get countered both of the units Hera teched into. It makes it a bad example and shows neither how you're supposed to respond to a threat, nor what you should do against an enemy actually paying attention to his units.
And it's not just Hera. Viper does this with Rathas and Arambai,
>Deer luring is not inherently a BO thing >self proclaimed genius completely misses the point and starts arguing about semantics >still no argument 2 posts in
Concession accepted, maybe if you actually played the game you could tell us why any other way of taking deer is objectively inferior to pushing them in instead of talking out of your ass.
Not even worth a (You).
>Mill: -100 wood plus walking time and security issues >Long distance: Depends how far and where the deer are located, every villager you send to deer could be chopping wood, mining gold, working farms, walling. There are two types of civ bonus that help, movement speed and carry capacity, Vikings have both because of wheelbarrow, Berbers just have vill speed, Aztecs get carry capacity which is just enough. This is important because when you send 4 villagers they are not using all their carry capacity and are bumping more, 3 villagers does it slightly more efficiently especially if they have good carry bonuses. Spirit of the law covers this topic in a video : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-VnefT0jRs
Also Megarandom generations its usually decent to mill the deer, in arena you have to push them in, that is all you can do in dark age, some acropolis generations have deer close to your berries
1) Lots of walking vill idle time
2) Can be easily picked off by an early game rush
3) 100 wood wasted instead of using it for literally anything
4) Scouting is not that important outside drushes and lames
Those are your arguments, shitter.
No matter what you say the truth is unchanging
Deer Lure is better than Milling Deer.
God I hate noobs that talk without knowing anything about the game.
Do you? In my games Hand Cannoners do well against cavs, struggle against paladins but they still do way better than throwing arbalests at paladins.
Sure knight-line soft counters HCs but not by much, a horsegay still has to respect a doomstack of 40 HCs. If anything you'd be archer-line since it's the easiest counter to HCs
Not really, my rush does not include Faster moving Gunpodwer Bohemian castle tech, so they move the same as xbows.
The gist is that HCs can easily destroy mangos due their 16 damage, you just need between 4 and 6 HCs to one shot a mangonel.
For some reason this qualifier had a lot of upsets and many big names are already out by people generally ranking lower than them like Andy, Villese, dogao and Nicov. If this continues MbL and Barles might not qualify either.
I really wonder what causes this, is the larger prize pool working as a motivator?
>For some reason this qualifier had a lot of upsets and many big names are already out by people generally ranking lower than them like Andy, Villese, dogao and Nicov
In hindsight, isnt this a good thing? You know, having many and different big names, and not always the same ones on a tournament is healthy for the pro scene.
It is, I hope we get to see others than the usual top 20.
You foget that people also get older and some don't have much time to train. Not all people compeating are full time AoEII pros.
DauT and ACCM are slowly approaching their 40s and it hasn't impacted their performance yet and the only ones I can think of that are fully committed to playing are Viper and Hera, the rest mostly have a job of some kind. Also those two apparently get a lot more income from streaming than actual tournaments.
>is the larger prize pool working as a motivator?
Andy is a surprise after his recent performances, but not Villese imo. Pretty sure he's been busy with college and hasn't been playing as much. Dogao also hasn't been performing well recently and Nicov only seems interested in team games based off how he's talked and played lately.
HC5 Qualifiers Round of 24 is starting >Currently
Barles vs. Daniel >Upcoming
MBL vs. Capoch
Valas vs. Sobek >Streams
https://www.twitch.tv/membtv
https://www.twitch.tv/t90official
https://www.twitch.tv/dave_aoe
https://www.twitch.tv/tatohaoe
A chilean, an uruguayan and maybe a brasilian will get into the main event of Hidden Cup
meanwhile all the Argentinians are out BUENO, gracias a dios que estan fuera esos insoportables
There has to be a way to cheese those without playing a water map civ. Burgundian bombards can frick up ships horribly, and coastal kreposts make fish trap eco untouchable. Something like those.
3 months ago
Anonymous
I usually use civ with strong early eco bonus like celt, japs, viking and do all in land invasion + barrack spam, if I'll fail I'm quitting, I've heard in team games slinging as pocket is pretty effective but I still have to try it
I will NOT play water maps
I will NOT poosh le deer (on Arabia)
I will NOT play mesos or indians (not racis just don like em design simple as)
I will NOT quickwall
I will NOT asiaticclick
I WILL mill le deer in feudal (on Arabia)
I WILL play Sicilians, Teutons and Vikings
and I WILL get to 2k
There is nothing left to talk about for now, everyone is waiting for PUP, HC5 and whatever announcement they want to make. Think about the patch as a 2 months late hotfix, pretty sure they already tested it with the pros.
And remember, this is all because of the Xbox release, consolegays and their consequences have been a disaster for the RTS community.
And now we're back to discussing deer taking while blaming everything from pathing and (not even indian) devs to hera&vipur spreadsheets. Is this really what you want?
>casuals not seethe about chadcraft challenge
It's because you tard(s) can't stop comparing two vastly different games and demand that we cater to your shit tastes while you can't push deer even on Arena if you play the game at all in the first place.
Thinking about it, releasing the patch to the pros first is a good move. If they approve everyone else will as well since 90% of AoE2's community just follows whatever the top players say.
that implies that deer existing makes the game smarter. you could get essentially the same strategic element by hiding more sheep on the map or something.
>deer existing makes the game smarter
It does. Dumb homosexuals like (You) seething proves it >same strategic element by hiding more sheep
Gather rates for sheep and deer are not the same. Fast feudal are just not possible to execute smoothly without luring deer, even 21 maa is a pain in the booty without hunting
the only pro of deer existing is that it has a strategic decision of letting a player delay scouting for more econ. the con is that it's an apm sink unlike anything else in the game and relies on moronic unit pathing. it isn't fun, you basically have to do it, and even pros get annoyed when the little homosexuals get stuck on trees or run in circles.
Deer are supposed to be taken either as a risky pre-farm food extension during early feudal, or as a bonus food source on your second tc when playing archer econ (14 farms).
Pushing is a glitch.
3 months ago
Anonymous
I would be happy if they replaced deer with a 3rd boar that's too far away for a villager to lure so you have to use your scout if you want it.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Why would you go out of your way to make the problem worse?
3 months ago
Anonymous
luring boars is less annoying than herding deer
3 months ago
Anonymous
The problem is that scouts are directly involved in eco, not that the deer are too skittish.
We're trying to restore their role as an optional alternative to HC farms for aggressive feudal play that puts people out on the map, providing a risk during feudal instead of incentivizing walling for 1-range stall into fc knight play.
>the con is that it's an apm sink unlike anything else in the game
Is not.
I would tell you to get good but it's not even necessary to be a good player to be able to lure deer and carry on with your day whitout b***hing about it.
Get mid
3 months ago
Anonymous
everything else in the game is degrees of success. if you have a villager idle for 10 seconds before you reseed a farm you are only slightly behind. if you don't micro your knights and they don't do max damage you are only a little worse than you could have been. on the other hand if you get the deer halfway back but then spend .5 seconds too long changing your tc rally it will frick off back to the start and it's like you never moved it at all. the only other task in this game that demands immediate micro or you lose everything is dodging mangonels. even hera loses a deer sometimes.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>degrees of success
Such as food gathering. Just shut the frick up already, if you don't lure deer but make sure to NEVER have more than 60 wood on feudal you will be winning games more consistently
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Never make production buildings >Don't make mining camps >Don't mill deer >Don't build a market/blacksmith
lol
3 months ago
Anonymous
Spoken like a true moron. Good job
3 months ago
Anonymous
if you accidentally kill 2 sheep at the same time you only lose a small percentage of their food. if you forget to force drop off your boar you only get a few seconds of idle time. if your deer runs back you get 0 food instead of 140. that is why it is so annoying. plus herding the deer takes way more clicking than anything else you do in dark age.
3 months ago
Anonymous
If you stop sucking dick for one second, you are not a homosexual for one second.
Wrong, it was tested and the result is subpar, and it wasn't the deer but the pathing, which is the fault of Indians which means you can't stand browns so your patience is back to normal levels
People will both complain and eat shit no matter the game.
Doesn't help that the game is so old people developed entire lifespans of devotion to what they think the game should represent.
I don't think it's that surprising when you realize the vast majority of the playerbase is unlikely to finish a game in feudal age. These threads watch tournaments a lot so they see a lot of feudal play but I don't think most games under 1200-1300 elo are like that at all.
I'm watching these old t90 fatslob videos and I'm wondering did anyone think to beat him by fast chopping through the shortest tree path and rushing light cav into his base before he can get to imp? I think a way to do it even on the conqueror's patch is to chop 3 trees once each so they turn into felled trees, then build a farm on top of them, then cancel the farm. this would let you fairly quickly make a 3 tree wide path through the forest without having to tech to trebs and only requiring 1-3 villagers.
Black folk DETECTED
Guys remember to leave negatives reviews to the game in steam mentioning the pathing, is not even "review bombing" because it's game related and it would be sad if some new friend buys the game only to find it in this atrocious state not even being able to enjoy the campaigns
Because Winged Hussars weren't added until a DLC and they're still part of the same unit line anyway just a regional version for a couple civs with slightly different stats.
yeah but calling them winged hussar doesn't distinguish them in any way since regular hussars have wings too. it would be like if they made a regional champion called "caped champion."
It's probably good to have a late game map in the pool just to have the option there, can always ban it if not in the mood. Black Forest is a late fuedal/early castle age map contrary to popular belief
>you can always ban
but I already said that you don't even have enough bans just for water and garbage maps where you start with buildings how am I going to ban this too?
how do I drush with 17 villagers? I skip mill but even with 2 deer I barely have enough food to click up on time and then I have to spam drop off to get enough food to make 2 militia so I end up getting to the enemy about 20 seconds later than I want to.
Not picking up stragglers as any civ is a waste of resouces >but muh lumber efficiency
Yea sure that +5 wood you got over the last 10 minutes is worth it.
heard pajeets devs fixed regrouping and pathfinding, now for fricks sake prevent players with 200 ping from playing ranked games, I'm playing rts not turn based strategy game, I'm tired of one player with red ping preventing rest of players from having fun
>now for fricks sake prevent players with 200 ping from playing ranked games
Or we can ban Americans so you dont have to play with high players, because you wont be able to play
bet you have another tab open on Ganker or /misc/ right now where you're calling americans thirdworlders.
is this just some sort of cringe schrodinger's-racism where americans are alternatively firstworlders or thirdworlders depending on whichever you think is going to win you the fake internet argument?
>bet you have another tab open on Ganker or /misc/ right now where you're calling americans thirdworlders.
I stopped brownsing Ganker years ago and only simpletons (Americans) brownse /misc/ >is this just some sort of cringe schrodinger's-racism where americans are alternatively firstworlders
No, I simply find Americans annoying because this 'superior' attitude to anybody that is not an American, since Americans only know guns and post colonial era history you'd think medieval RTS would be a safe heaven from them, but sadly I was wrong, on top of that they also always complain about "ping", whereas literally anybody is used to it given you have to play with and against different parts of the globe, "third world" like genuinely thinking they are the only culture that matters, disregarding all other hundreds cultures of all historical areas.
I single them out because they are always the most loud ones in these threads. And I'm done pretending they are not.
What I did play of the co-op campaigns felt like they barely compensated for having a second player on the field by any measure, maybe the first will lose some military buildings or starting units and that's it. Some of the DLC campaigns also feel like they'd be a natural fit as well, like Algirdas & Kestutis and Thoros, perhaps even Trajan on the RoR side.
forgotten campaigns sucks, last khans on other hand are pure gold
Whatever the case, the overall quality has a lot greater since. Kangz and Rajas weren't too much better than Forgotten, though I'd think Royals didn't feel that great either. Not sure what I was expecting with Return of Rome but I was sort of hoping the AoE 1 campaigns would've been remade at a better standard but they're just weird mixes of original and DE scenarios instead, not even having the outro dialogue.
So what dose of estrogen do you guys think is a good one to start on before the tournament?
I'm just glad esports don't check for doping the way nomal sports do.
REDBULL? That's the sponsor of these tournaments? An energy drink? This is EMBARRASSING.
It fits with the level of class and intelligence you expect from the "people" involved with it.
RTS becoming an esports tournament thing in the 2000s probably doomed the genre to be dogshit for 50+ years, you know. I suspect the esports stuff is why normal people immediately left for GSGs/colony sims/whatever the frick kenshi is as soon as options like those became available.
Unfortunate since I liked starcraft as a teen.
Red Bull is the thinking man’s drink. Don’t tell me you’re one of those Monster-slurping plebeians.
>This is EMBARRASSING
Why
Embarrassing for who exactly
Non-virgins, people who if they still have their hair it's not prematurely gray, people who watch out for their health because it's goddamned Red Bull, and so forth.
Why would be embarrassing, you don't make sense. You are dumb AND pretentious. Easily one of the worst combination. Shut the frick up homosexual
nobody cares who the sponsor is, moron. You could do a lot worse than an established energy drink too.
AHEM!
FRICK ARENA
FRICK ARABIA
FRICK KNIGHTS
FRICK EGALOS FOR HOOVERING UP MY VILLAGERS
FRICK CROSSBOW SPREADSHITTERS
FRICK TURK CASTILLE DROPPERS
FRICK BOOMBARD CANNONS
FRICK SPREADSHEETS
AND FRICK HERA AND VIPUUUR FOR GIVING PEOPLE SPREADSHEETS
An energy drink that is worth around 18.5 billion dollars. Let them fund our tournaments.
>FRICK TURK CASTILLE DROPPERS
Aah took me a second read but noticed what you did
Didn't know he also ranted about arena
Yes and it was just as epic
It took you 4 years to figure out a tournament named REDBULL WOLOLO was sponsored by...Redbull?
REDBULL? That's the sponsor of these tournaments? An F1 racing team? This is EXCITING!
Buff
they are cheap as dirt just make 4 of them and you kill 6 million archers
Dies to light cav/knight unless you are Romans
>Dies to light cav/knight
Dies to spear/pike
We can do this moronic counter shit all day long.
Hint: You can attack the scorps and dodge every single pikeman
Hint: The players here aren't that good
Hint: Your eco is going idle behind this because you have 20 APM
Hint: You can't tech swap for shit
>20 APM
>Anal Prolapse / Minute
Story of my life
Yeah, as they should
Needs to cost less gold and reduce the roman bonus.
Also, it's about timings, opponent was messing you with crossbows and you made two scorps that you use fend off his army, does he have a knight right there at that moment? Unlikely, will he add a counter to your scorp? Yeah, in the meantime you already bought some time and space to stabilize the situation. Timings and actualky playing the game is above mentioning counters in a Indian street food forum
i like handcannoneers and believe they should be buffed.
I like hand cannoneers and believe Flemish Revolution deserves a rework.
Buff
Garrisoned infantry can shoot arrows
Not letting monks convert them from a distance would be a good start.
I have never seen a monk get redemption to deal with a siege tower
Increase speed so it's more realistic
Just lower the cost. Instantly sees use against skirms.
Garrisoned archers can fire arrows.
There, I fixed it.
>Buffing archers
/vst/ won't like this...
>All this APM and still loses
I love watching morons who spam stupid actions lose.
>against a 63 apm average
Dude this image is so good. You have no idea
What was he doing that entire time?
Given the state of the eco and his military control? He was doing a whole lot of nothing. APM like that where the miltiary/eco doesn't match is just him spam clicking shit to no effect.
What's that APM for if you end up with 38% worker efficiency? Should use that to micro villagers into perfection.
I'm saving this image for future discussions with shitters
They are literal idiots that don't even play the game and have a wrong concept of mp. They got massacred in the other thread and not because they don't play the ladder (which is fine) but they believe they have valid opinions about it and talk about stuff they don't know
>but they believe they have valid opinions about it and talk about stuff they don't know
Such as?
I like T90, like Hera, love listening to Viper and I am not even going to pretend I don't
>Has mule cart
>Pushes deer instead of scouting
asiaticclick bros....
>12 archers
>game over
this is such a shit game in competitive multiplayer its not even funny anymore. No rush 20 is unironically the only way to play this game like it was supposed to
>stupid people making money out of this game, you don't know how to play properly!
git gud Black person
Kamigawa could have made one trebuchet and reach every feitoria
what happens if I make a bunch of rams against the organ guns
Rams will kill organ guns if they get close.
Yeah, that's a big IF
Also is super expensive
Rams can 1 or 2 shoot organ guns, if they close the distance then they will kill
What you need is to fully garrison the ram with 6 infantry
PUP for the next month should be up in a few days, post your hopes and expectations.
I'm expecting a Bohemians nerf, the hussite wagon spam is getting annoying. It went from an absolute garbage UU to one of the most moron proof ones just by barely changing a few stats.
You also need to constantly micro them because rams do not auto attack units and will either stand in place or attack a building after they destroy an organ gun.
However, I've noticed in campaigns that siege elephants from indian civs do auto attack units and you could just patrol them in. The problem with both of these anyway is that organ guns are faster than both except for a fully garrisoned ram and can just move away and they can be easily converted by monks or taken down even by villagers.
>hopes and expectations
Worse pathing
>we fixed pathing, now units always will take longer route
>they can be easily converted by monks
Siege takes longer to convert and monks require to be in melee range to convert ram, you can quite literally walk away from them
>Siege takes longer to convert and monks require to be in melee range to convert ram, you can quite literally walk away from them
A monk is faster than an un-garrisoned ram, mangonels are better at dealing with organ guns because they have ranged splash damage
>A monk is faster than an un-garrisoned ram
Which is why you never use garrisonless rams and instead exclusively use rams with 6 infantry inside.
>mangonels are better at dealing with organ guns because they have ranged splash damage
Correct.
A mangonel is less investment than a ram and six infantry units.
Correct.
Yet rams is still a valid option.
It's just so fricking stupid the whole Portuguese meta, yesterday's game was a prime example
>be way behind in eco
>put vills on wood and gold
>win
I guess the solution against thay is to tank your eco in order to make two defensive castles plus one or two mangos
Portuguese might have to lose either redemption or atonement, currently their all in is way too strong and has no counter or defense on early/mid castle age economies. Their 80 gold monks make up for the loss of a tech anyway and keep them a strong monk civ.
War wagons are an old unit like the throwing axemen, they don't make a lot of sense but they are too iconic to be changed anymore and both fill a unique role. You could argue that war wagons are tankier cav archers like rattans and plumes are tankier foot archers, meanwhile hussite wagons have no identity other than "war wagon but better".
It's a defensive siege weapon. You're supposed to use it to block/weaken shots against your archers, but the devs made it into a bigger organ gun.
And no one used them like that, its unique mechanic really doesn't work in games like this.
I know they are stats and performance wise, but they also look very out of place.
>looks like a siege unit without any weapons on it
>fires bolts like scorpions and war galleys
They don't feel like they are CA at all despite being one.
it's stupid because the hussites used their wagons to defend against knights but in game they're bad against knights and used to counter archers. on the other hand korean war wagons should be like an organ gun with a chukonu attack.
Bohemians already have their BS/Uni bonus for advanced quickwalls.
>You could argue that war wagons are tankier cav archers
I always considered them that. What about you? Genuinely curious.
>hopes
buff handcannoneers
>expectations
worse pathing, no change to handcannoneers.
I wish they would just redesign the unit. it is too similar to the korean wagon and both of them don't work anything like the historical thing they are supposed to be based on.
Have you never even once used either unit? The only things they have in common are high HP and "Wagon".
they are both fat school bus looking pieces of shit with a ranged attack. I don't care if one counts as siege and the other is an archer.
Sure, and I suppose a Camel Archer is basically a Mameluke if you're dumb enough.
a kipchak and a mangudai are both fancy cavalry archers. hussite wagons and war wagons are both stupid units that don't even properly represent the things they are supposed to.
Flem. Revolution rework, Viet GSM, Bengali midgame adjustments, and an end to deer pushing.
>Viet GSM
What?
Gold Shaft Mining.
>We need to fix pathing
>Gets worse
>We need to fix pathing
>Gets worse
>We need to fix pathing
>Gets worse
I wonder when morons will figure it out. Should've just let it be.
Do Tatar players use cav archers? I can't remember the last time I encountered someone who successfully managed the transition.
Yes but meta is to go crossbows, and Tatars have decent crossbows due to thumb ring
Is it because of walling, or because a group of 8 xbows is a better compromise between raiding ability and cost-efficiency?
AI making three lumbercamps
Other AI going double range as Persians
Have new spreadsheets just dropped?
Because you can make archers in feudal age so you have army right away in castle age
I do, almost exclusively. It's a difficult transition though, you have to start prepping for it mid feudal. It's easier on maps with a lot of herdables or hunt so you don't overly invest into farms.
Is there fun to be had playing the Spanish if you're not looking to just spam conqs?
Winning with feudal archers
Instant conversion donkeys
Missionaries and knights
>wanting to buff vietnamese
>vietnamese eco even
I would understand if it was a rework of paper money or even ditch that for another tech but geez
The Vietnamese winrate is poor, and it's easy to see that it's (at least partially) because they're an archer civ without the final gold tech.
They didn't use it for that because the hitbox is too small, and hussite wagons frick up formations, especially after researching SE.
>have all the tools to win before early imp
>fail to do so
It surely is because that missing thech. Of course it is
>Expecting a post-imp boom civ to close out the game early
>Treating a mid-castle tech as a mid-imp tech.
>Expecting a post-imp boom civ to close out the game early
They can easily do that
>Treating a mid-castle tech as a mid-imp tech.
If you actually get that tech on castle you must be 900 Elo
>They can easily do that
Sometimes, but they're not designed to outside of laming.
>900 elo
I know it's hip to pretend we're all still playing HD, but it's gotten a significant cost decrease. Pretty soon, your favorite streamer will give you permission to grab it before gold runs out on the map.
>but they're not designed to outside of laming.
So you lame a boar and a couple of sheep and you STILL struggle to win early. Average lamer IQ
>your favorite streamer will give you permission to grab it before gold runs out on the map
Neat. Will be waiting
Found the disconnect.
Viets played without laming are sub-par. Don't care about boar lames on my open tech tree eco civ.
I listen to Death Grips when I play
i listen to various anime, weird al, and other moronic songs while playing.
In an all elephant challenge, why would anyone ever pick Dravidians? The obvious picks are Khmer (best eco, best "standard" elephant, best competitive civ outside elephants, and ranged siege elephant) and Malay (insane discount and fast up time with all relevant upgrades besides armor, and also best competitive civ outside elephants). Bengalis are a situational pick on more closed maps for conversion and bonus damage resistance with decent eco, Persians are situational pick for trash wars and stalemate breaking. Gujaras and Burmese aren't really elephant civs but are decent outside of that. Why would anyone pick Dravidians?
Regenerating and faster firing elephant archers. Plus it's just fun
The regeneration is insignificant, 20hp/min with 300hp. For reference berserks do 40hp/min with 74hp. Faster firing is great, but they're still slow to mass and die quickly because no bloodlines/husbandry and lack of a good meat shield. Yeah yeah, you can play them for fun, I personally don't understand how because while Urumi are cool, they make even less sense than a mamluk throwing scimitars from camelback and the whole civ itself is a bastardization of southern Indian cultures and also politically problematic in current Indian politics. For reference, so are the Vikings of Scandinavian cultures and it's problematic in current American politics.
I dont really let things like realism or real world politics influence how much fun the game is for me. Half of the game is not representative of reality and we could talk all day about that. But I think most players dont let things like civ picks get in the way of their enjoyment of the game. I'll play my bad civs and enjoy my time in the lower elo
Yes, I knew from your previous comment that you are ignorant, and in this comment you are commiting to it. Let us all say the oath, "I don't care, it's outside my bubble, I'm having (fun?) in my own way, and I look down upon the idea of politics and politicking." When I don't know what to tell you other than that's how the world is, and I too was mad when I found out because the game looks so promising but turns out it's built upon lies. There's a difference between fantasy and falsehood, SC2 is wonderful fantasy, mamluks throwing scimitars is fantasy, but it just somehow makes sense, like it could be real or is real within the game universe. And then there are things that are simply lies, like the Therisidae, the idea that the Therisidae was actually produced, and the idea that it belonged to the Dravidians and not the Greeks. See?
I'm not ignorant to that fact. Would you also like to comment on the fact that the term "Berber" is racist and is equated to "savages"? Or the term "Slav" being entirely too broad to pin to a single civilization? Or the fact that meso civs are nothing like each other in real life and should have their own distinct looks? This game has always had issues like this, ever since it came out. I'm not sure why we're talking about this though because originally we were talking about gameplay, which is entirely separate.
Yeeeeeessss I would, because interestingly enough Berber is rascist (though let's clear this up, it's not actually about race it's about religion) in almost exactly the same way Hindustani is racist (but it's actually about religion) and Dravidian is racist (still actually about religion, and with this one it's military as well). All of these peoples have been ethnically and religiously intermingling, like both having children and sharing beliefs together, the lines got drawn because the Islamic Caliphate (to be clear, not the religion itself but the government) took over Arabic countries and spread westward into northern African countries and eastward into Indian countries. "Berber" means "north Africans who are not ethnically Arabic, who are also Muslims." Oh and why do they get genitours again? That's a unit that European Spaniards used against the Berbers. Huh. But in reality there is Arabic ethnicity in there, it's just not "Arab passing" as defined by the Caliphate. Please look up The Muslim Brotherhood (Egyptian-based), it's quite similar to The (American-based) Proud Boys. "Hindustani" means "Northern/Middle Indians who are not ethnically Arab, and who practice Hindu." When in reality the ethnicities are very mixed, and many Indians already practiced Islam, they just weren't a part of the Caliphate. It's very similar to the power and influence that the Catholic Church wielded in Europe. And finally with Dravidian, all the same applies to Hindustani, it's just that during the successful Caliphate invasion of India during medieval history, they were stopped halfway down. Hindustani is for the people they conquered, Dravidian is for the people they didn't. And all of this applies on the flip side to European civs, there are very deliberate choices in how they adapt history to the game. And we know it's deliberate because there's some kind of consistency in how it's wrong. Huh.
>everything is LE RACIST
We have this game thanks to that so called racism so if you see it literally everywhere you HAVE to stop playing this
And the Jinete is a Spanish adoption of a West/North African cavalry unit, named after the Zenata tribe from Mauritania.
And yes what I'm getting at here is that the game kinda supports white supremacy and European culture. During development there was a controversy over Janissaries wearing their iconic cylinder hats, and the excuses given by Microsoft were "it looks like the KKK and that would upset players" and "it looks too much like the Pope and that would upset players". When all of those "reasons" are countered by the fact "well, that's what they wore and still wear today for ceremony." And you look at who develops this game, and who the audience for the game is, and it starts making sense and I start getting kinda pissed off because this game and its civs could've been awesome if it weren't for meddling like that. If it was simply a game and not a product. But also with the understanding that a company needs to sell games in order to survive, and that fact checking and doing the due diligence to "properly" translate real history into a game takes a lot of time and effort, it just could've been better. If you make a great game, people will come and stay. If you make a disappointing game, the people will come, but they won't stay unless you continuously pump out more things for them to be disappointed by. Cue the barrage of DLC, the flood of patches that don't really do anything (*ahem* Devotion) and work so sloppy that it's very obvious they read a wiki article and took that as fact (Viking horned helmets, Therisidae, etc).
>kinda supports white supremacy and European culture.
Good.
have a nice day you whiny shitskin.
The Thirisadae is a Javanese ship misattributed to Southern India, not Greek.
I don't give a shit about Indians and their stupid fricking caste bullshit, they all have skin that looks like shit
>bastardization of southern Indian cultures and also politically problematic in current Indian politics
Oh shit who the frick cares. Eat more meat so you have less bowel movements per day and get a toilet. Thank me for putting you way above your peers
>random forumshitter schizobabble
>posts exactly one minute away
bot or mental moronation, call it
Has to be bot.
the original game was designed around western civilization and its neighbors. going outside of this context with mesoamericans and afrikangz creates stupidity like the aztec castle being a temple and ethiopians being a crossbow civ.
Yeah the Celts and Chinese were really close neighbors.
>he doesn't know
Oh no! Abstractions! I won't survive!
Game was okay with conquerors expansions even though Aztecs and Mayans were out of place but all the we wuz expansions really ruined the game in my opinion
How good are Genitours as substitutes for Elite Skirms during the midgame?
This video was made before the genitour food cost decrease (I think)
we're so back
I'm working on a 3 civ Polynesian expansion concept, help me fill in the gaps, balance, or tell me to piss off
No stables for any of them of course, but they would all get a re-skinned eagle warrior
>Tongans
Naval civilisation
Language: Tongan
Wonder: Haʻamonga ʻa Maui atop a platform akin to Paepae o Teleʻa
Team Bonus: fishing/transport ships +2 LOS
Bonuses:
>naval techs an age earlier
>farms generate wood in addition to food (4 wood per minute?)
>first dock produces a Drua with auto-scout
>loom gives twice the normal health
Unique Units:
>Toa (wielding an Akau Tau) high HP fast speed raiding unit with no armor (eagle warrior fast)
>Drua, fast moving 5 capacity transport ship, fires arrows when garrisoned
Unique Tech:
>Stick chart (all ships +2 LOS)
?
>Maoris
Infantry and defensive civilisation
Language: Maori
Wonder: a really big fancy Wharenui
Team Bonus: ?
Bonuses:
>spearmen move 10% faster
>castles provide additional +10 population space
>infantry in groups of at least 15 gain +1 damage
>slain villagers refund 15 food
Unique Unit:
>Rangatira, slow to create, low stats, increases attack speed of nearby infantry
Unique Tech:
>Waka taua - galley line +2 vs buildings
>Pā - half of castle stone cost replaced with wood cost
>Hawaiians
Naval and monk civ
Language: Hawaiian
Wonder: Pi'ilanihale Heiau (but embellished to look good (throw a moai on top))
Team Bonus: ?
Bonuses:
>skirmishers have no minimum range
>docks produce 1 food per minute passively
>idle infantry heal over time
Unique Unit:
>Aliʻi, infantry unit (wielding a leiomano), additional damage to villagers, trade carts and economy buildings
Unique Tech: ?
?
Most things here either aren't useful or are being used by another civ, and as factions, they would each be unplayable, even without looking at tech trees.
If you're being serious, look at actual civs in the game and understand what makes them work. Learn about the eco and tech trees to see how each civ is modified by the bonuses and techs.
>3 polynesian civs
Frick off
Also
>naval techs an age earlier
Fire ship in feudal age, fast fires in castle age, it would be busted.
>farms generate wood in addition to food (4 wood per minute?)
>Stalemate on water map = win the game like feitoria
>Stick chart (all ships +2 LOS)
Almost useless
>spearmen move 10% faster
Already exists in Lithuanians
>castles provide additional +10 population space
Meaningless, doesn't help in dark/feudal age
>infantry in groups of at least 15 gain +1 damage
Not going to do much
>Waka taua - galley line +2 vs buildings
Almost worthless
>Pā - half of castle stone cost replaced with wood cost
Already exists in Slavs
>skirmishers have no minimum range
Useless
>docks produce 1 food per minute passively
Laughable even Gurjaras have a better return
Actually, Tonga could work, but essentially free farms from the moment you get heavy plow is too extreme, and war galley early would break the game.
>war galley early would break the game
That's fair, maybe careening and dry dock early instead?
>but why
For fun!
Thank you for your feedback
Let's start from the concepts: What gameplay experience are you trying to deliver with each civ? So far, I'm seeing Naval Mesos x 3.
E.g: "I want a cavalry civ that shifts towards gunpowder in the castle age, leaning hard into it from the second they hit the imperial age." (Turks).
Good idea (it is tricky to not make them feel same-y)
Tongans
powerful navy with particularly good exploration and spearmen
>naval tech early (Pacific Islanders were sailing the globe way before Europeans were)
>beefy infantry good at raiding, and trash UU (they never figured out metallurgy)
>a bonus to boost early food or fatten up villagers (they would sail from island to island eating everything they saw, made lots of species extinct this way)
Maoris
defensive civ, fast infantry adept at raiding, particularly good at destroying buildings
>focus on wood over stone (a la cuman palisades) and units buffing eachother (eg the UU i proposed)
>some reference to cannibalism
>some reference to infantry war dances (eg group damage bonus)
Hawaiians
monastery focus, incentive to go skirmishers over archers
>considering a naval UU that can convert but that might be OP
>bonus vs economy/villagers (Hawaiian shark tooth weapons are particularly effective against fleshy targets (RIP captain cook))
>docks generating food passively (Hawaiian fish traps were effective in very shallow water)
too hodge-podgy, you need more cohesive bonuses that compliment eachother
>bonus vs villagers
How much more damage can military do to villagers? They already melt against pretty much anything.
the UU will kill a normal villager in 2 hits in castle age, 1 in imperial
In order to make good civ suggestions, you'll really need to be familiar with the game.
I'm being completely serious here. Set this idea to the side, push until you hit 1700 on the ranked ladder, and feel comfortable playing both Arabia and a naval rotation map at at least that level, then revisit the idea.
>naval UU that can convert
They nearly had this in the base game all those years ago 11
It would probably work fine but would possibly feel a bit pointless
>I'm working on a 3 civ Polynesian expansion concept
But why
Also as much as I would like to see polynesians they don't fit in as a civilization. For the meso civs they already had to change plenty of concepts to fit them into the game and add stuff like eagle warriors which I dislike. Like how would their architecture would look like? Their castles? Wonders? Cavalry? etc
It would be too hard to fit them into the game
They wouldn't have cavalry
I have an outline for the architecture
>House: a traditional Tongan fale will suit perfectly. chuck a Yap stone coin outside as an easter egg.
>Barracks: to me, Hale o Keawe looks like a typical AoE2 barracks, with the palisade walls and all
>Archery range: similarly to the American civs the Polynesians weren't known for their archery, so some artistic liberties are required here
>Stables: N/A
>Monastery: will need to be creative but the remaining Hawaiian heiau sites as well as sketches of these from the early colonists will provide plenty of foundation
>University: something akin to a Maori wharenui
>Castle: a mashup of a Pā and the stonework of Nan Madol or Talietumu
Stop sucking so much dick and that might clear your mind about how moronic this post is
Finally the dlc to kill all dlcs
>Pay for proper pathing
AoE 2 becomes p2w
Make sure to wish /ourgirl/ a happy b-day bros
She can frick off, I want to see wizard rage because he is shit at the game
She's not bad. With better macro control and scouting, she could push to at least 1700.
Post in the official thread instead:
I will post on the thread with the most replies
Huh, turns out /vst/ has a janny afterall
Wow, thanks janny for actually h--
>scrolls down one thread
>OP picture is foot fetish art of fire emblem characters
two steps forward one step back i guess
Janny probably created the thread
>Thread wars
>On /vst/
Autism.
It's time to split Vikings into Swedes, Danes and Norwegians. All three will share a unique unit from the Barracks called Viking (upgrades into Viking Warrior in Castle Age and Elite Viking Warrior in Imperial Age).
It costs only 50f, 10g and acts like a worse Eagle Warrior. It also gains gold when killing enemy monks and villagers.
Civ specific bonuses:
Swedes: More HP or armor
Danes: Higher attack
Norwegians: Cheaper
no
Seethe more Poojeets. We want more European civs.
>Seethe more Poojeets.
Not a fricking pajeet you bloody simpleton, I simply tire to read these mind numblingly dumb posts that come from people that actually don't play the game
Shut the frick up
Just do it with triggers in the editor you lazy frick
Today I got reminded why feudal eagles suck and why everyone only uses them exclusively with archers
Still won, but seeing eagles barely catching up to archers while still getting murdered by archers felt no different than using celtic MAAs.
Eagles should nowhere be this terrible in feudal, but if the devs buff them then Mayans become imba, stronger than they already are
they dogshit in feudal, even spears counters them pretty well, it takes 30 sec to recruit them so you need multiple barracks, single good thing it low food cost so spamming them in feudal won't delay you castle that much.
>it takes 30 sec
60*
That's ridiculous lol should've been 25 secs at max.
Not in feudal
It's fifty one for aztecs btw
They'd get shut down by MAA so it would be perfectly ok to have them useable in feudal not just for scouting.
Could just add a few archers and they'd shut down those MAA.
Perhaps reducing PA by 1 in Feudal could be a way to balance them.
Could just add a few skirmishers and they'd shut down those archers.
Maybe that's what the game is about isn't it?
They are absolutely not.
Basically what
and I said in my original post, feudal eagles by themselves are bad but paired with archers they become good, but still not worth using as standalone units.
I'd give them +1 PA and some speed, they barely can catch up to archers
You need 5 archers and then you can switch to all in eagles in feudal
Tldr on las Hera's video? Is it really necessary to make a video like that?
He is right about islands
>Using seething outside of Ganker
It's a word
The word 'seething' was not made, nor owned by Ganker.
Dumbass.
Seething.
He's not wrong. Memb and Nili put a lot more thought into map selection, design and civ drafts in NAC4/5 and Warlords 2 while T90 picks too few maps and they are either gimmicky or badly designed. Islands and Mudflow are especially bad from what I've seen during the qualifiers.
>Islands
Boring galleyslop all the way until one player runs out of wood, islands even smaller than usual making landing even more difficult.
>Mudflow
T90 has this weird obsession with TCs surrounded by shallows so players can't farm around it, so everyone plays extended feudal because farms are usually completely exposed and it is easy to do game ending damage before getting to castle. Late feudal is just as boring as water is due to its extremely limited unit roster.
Quarry needs minor adjustments like what he suggested and Gold Rush/4lakes and its variations have been featured in the last ~5 tournaments, making the map pool feel even more limited in variety. At least Slopes has good matches but it seems like gold runs out much faster than normal.
I generally like Memb's maps, BoA maps are really standout imo. Nili might have more custom ones but all they seem to be rather boomy. Don't really care for them tbh. T90's only decent map pool came out of Wandering Warrior's cup imo. (2nd WWC never ever btw)
I still think aoe has bad maps in general. I want to see maps with sc style resource distribution where you have to send workers around the map by castle age, not just after you have built 80 farms in your main.
That's Arabia when your opponent knows how to lame resources.
>wants shitty sc maps in the game for no reason other than muh sc autism
>moronic game design idea that would fundamentally change a 25 years old game
>eagles counter swordsmen
Do you even play the game?
>Do you even play the game?
There are like three dudes thay play the game. Everybody else just post moronic civ proposals, stupid balance changes and such
I've come to hate /vst/ leagues more than Reddit.
Oh yeah, totally. Can understand thay even when I don't use reddit
sc maps are way more creative than aoe2 maps. show me an aoe2 map like outsider or triathlon.
Dunno, it breaks the usual build orders a little and forces you to expand I guess.
As for Islands, yeah, but the HC5 version has less wood on purpose so it's shorter.
Main event is supposed to have all new maps, I think.
What are some other regional units that could be introduced, aside from vikings? We could also rename that potential unit to "raider" and give it to Vikings, Celts and Slavs. Perhaps at the same time as we split Slavs.
Feudal eagle with archers
Full eagles with Incas
>place new farms
>existing farmers move over 10 tiles to build these instead of their own
>farmer assigned to that farm goes idle
why the frick does this keep happening?
Legacy bug please understand
Thoughts on Heras balance suggestions?
I like where he's heading with them, but feel like many of the buffs aren't enough. Militia line needs more than a <2% increase in movement speed.
I think base speed should be 0.95, and then get Squires available from Feudal Age. Or, they just get +1 PA (so MAA/LS tarts with +2, which turns into +3 with Gambesons and +5 with all upgrades. Romans will then have +6 PA Long Swordsmen.
base speed 0.93, its already a huge buff to Celts and Malians
I think his rationale is disagreeable, but the changes themselves are tame.
However, I'm not supporting Huns getting steppe lancers. Especially not after seeing what giving Mongols steppe lancers did.
And I'm not supporting your suggestion at all.
>Or, they just get +1 PA
Holy frick just make skirmishes you dumb fricks. The militia line is not supposed to counter archers.
yes but militia line get's countered literally be everything aside skirms, eagles, hussars and it's ridiculous.
Good point. No one plays Hussar or Eagles.
if you are using eagles or hussars and you see champs running in your direction you simply run away, best counter ever.
>Push with champions and siege
>Maybe getting a few vill kills will switch the game in my favor as I lose castles, production and ground.
Raids alone don't win games, there are more important things like microing archers/onagers/scorpions/bombard cannons and you need some hussars for your meat shield
It doesn't. It beats knights on spread formation, it beats siege when partnered with siege towers, it beats massed archer when you play battering ram without running into the mass, and it tears buildings, eagles, and monks apart while resisting trash. You just never learned how to use them.
>beats knights on spread formation
They fricking don't. Never did
They do, but since longswords train slowly, you have to start massing them before castle age and grab relevant BS techs.
>longswords train slowly
homie you don't play the game.
21 seconds per LS (65 res after Supplies) means ~3.14 res/sec/barrack.
30 seconds per knight is 4.5 res/sec/stable.
That's about 66% as fast, so yes, they train slowly. They also reinforce and reposition slowly, and need many upgrades before they're set.
Autistic spirit of the law wannabe idiot shut the frick up. Go and make LSs against knights you homosexual
wow this changes literally nothing
>"Stables work ~50% faster than barracks"
Yup, sure does feel like nothing.
What kind of eco do you need to produce from three stables and compare that with three barracks production. Pretty obvious that you are a moron, which makes you fit in this board and playerbase just right
A knight is 135 total res, longsword w supplies is 65 total res. So a knight should have good stats to compensate.
A knight with bloodlines has the health of two longswords, an extra attack and an extra armor. Against +2 armor knights a longsword deals 5 damage, you need forging to take down a +2 knight in 20 hits. A knight has 10 base attack so it will deal 7 damage against a +2 longsword killing it in 9 hits. Also the knight player can retreat the low HP knights to his monastery and heal them back up to full.
Assuming equal investment in BS techs, Longswords will each deal 7 damage with each hit, and take 9 damage in return from each knight. 16 hits to kill vs 6, but leaving out the 2:1 ratio, the ability to mass spears, and the fact that longswords can take arson and down buildings if the knights ever retreat while they're healing. From there, teching gambeson is easy if they go for archers.
How dumb are you to see "Stables each work 50% faster than barracks" and think I'm comparing 3 stable with 3 barracks?
16 vs 6 is still pretty favorable for the knights, doubling down on longswords doesn't make sense, knights are better in combat and for raiding. There is no reason to get attack upgrades, I would rather extra pikemen than forging and throw in some monks. Knight and scorpion is also deadly to full infantry plays
>16 vs 6 is still pretty favorable for the knights
In a chokepoint, absolutely. Otherwise, no. Especially if the other guy ever mixes in spears/pikes.
And yeah, knight/scorp absolutely can be devastating to infantry, provided you have good positioning.
That's where it turns into a battering ram push and pike-siege.
>3 stable knights is the same as 2 stable knights
Are you a bot, or just lonely?
>I'm comparing stables with barracks, not stables with barracks, OK?
What a dumb fricking idiot you are. Thanks for vomiting your stupidity and doubling down on it, it's always good to have a reminder of the kid of morons with no brains that we we are dealing here. Now go be black somewhere else you low IQ monkey
>Holy frick just make skirmishes you dumb fricks.
Still dies hard because everyone will field archer + scouts or archers + skirms and you will die regardless.
>The militia line is not supposed to counter archers.
To the point nobody uses infantry? Stop being dumb.
Nobody uses the militia line because it's slower than all of the units it's supposed to beat, leaving it as something you task to enemy production buildings only during a tower push.
Agreed, which is why Hera's changes are good for the most part, infantry needs speed.
Bumping the speed from 0.9 to 0.92 isnt nearly enough. It's less than a 2% increase, and they'll still be slower than archers.
True, militia-line needs to be faster than archers from the get go, but knowing the devs, they will never buff/nerf archers since the latter is such a staple unit and aoe2 playerbase is rather set in stone with its meta
They're supposed to be slower than archers. Kiting infantry is intended play for archer civs.
>intended play for archer civs.
I suppose that's why CAs got their frame delay nerfed long time ago so its harder for them to micro, but not for archers which can still smoothly micro everything down, eh?
Tosser.
Yeah. Best explanation I have is that cav archers are designed to be archers with better map presence, like archers that happen to ride around between fights.
And if the other guy has pikes?
>Best explanation I have is that cav archers are designed to be archers with better map presence, like archers that happen to ride around between fights.
That's bloody stupid and you know it, more reasonable would be to have archers filling a role of 'stand and shoot' kind of deal, similar how AoM archers work, and let CAs be the one with lots of microability and maneuverability.
But as it is right now, foot archers have much better microability than mounted archers themselves, and that's stupid, there's barely any reason to use CAs if your civ does not specialize on them and you are always much better using archer-line instead.
Nor it's historically accurate either, for what that argument is worth.
The major weakness of archers is their inability to fight in multiple locations. Cav archers can fight anywhere.
Kill them with?
>The major weakness of archers is their inability to fight in multiple locations
Doesnt matter because fighting archers is so hard you need to go out of your way to counter them, moreso than CAs.
>Cav archers can fight anywhere.
Does not really matter when LC, camels and ballistic skirms/xbows fricks them up very hard, and knights can still chase them away
>Doesnt matter because fighting archers is so hard you need to go out of your way to counter them, moreso than CAs.
Yeah, and CAs can choose not to engage with threats to them, making them (individually) much more aggressive raiders. Their issue is their awful default accuracy.
>And if the other guy has pikes?
You kill the pikes
Teaching a dumb feature indeed
>dumb feature
>Noooo my units should just stand there reeee it's more realistic
kys homosexual go play Michi
1) Bet you dont even play the game
2) Michi sucks, also BF
>1) Bet you dont even play the game
Alright I stand corrected.
Archers are still stupid and should get nerfed still.
how is 1500 elo compared to 1000? I'd rather stay with total noobs like me to be honest.
>how is 1500 elo compared to 1000?
More strict, you need to know the meta or at the very least know how to handle it, archers and scouts is very common so if you dont know how to handle it you're doneso, that's for arabia at least.
But in general, there's less room for dicking around unlike in 1000 ELO.
Thanks, I hate it.
whatd he say about handcannoneers? if he didn't mention it, then his suggestions SUCK.
Hera can frick off back to league, quitter.
swordsman are dumb and only exist as a legacy feature from aoe1. the counter triangle should simply be barracks > stable > range > barracks where the gold unit also counters its own trash unit.
On a macro level, it already is, beyond skirms losing to gambeson champs.
skirms are another dumb unit. they're a unit with a shield and a javelin. what the frick are they supposed to be? peltasts?
>peltasts?
Yep.
What would you change about the current game if you had the power?
all units are now female with exposed breasts with good jiggle physics including the animals
>Running Konniks into pikes
>Microing Ethiopian archers
>Lithuanian knight/skirm feinting
>Berber camel patrol
>MASSED KARAMBITS
I have thought about this a lot
>Georgians get Warrior Priest (it is literally a Georgian design)
>Slavs renamed Rus
>Britons renamed English
>Villagers and units have skin colour to match their civ
NEW DLCS
>Mandate of Heaven: Jurchens, Tibetans and Khitans
>African Chronicle: Songhais, Somalians and Shona, Saracens split to become Mamluks and Abbasids
>Balkan Renaissance: Vlach, Hasburgs, Serbs
No more deer luring, deer color on the minimap changed to something more easily visible, Flemish Revolution rework, and the Briton range advantage ends at +2 for non-longbow archers.
Sell campaigns as DLCs
>mongols but different
>Black folk
>fricking Hasburgs as a civ
Average /vst/urd civ splitter
This might be a long list but none of these are important and the game is perfectly fine without any of it.
>Gameplay changes
Introduce tournament maps to ranked rotation
Involve tournament map makers in updating maps, the last time we had a significant change was to add carpets, push deer further away and unfrick starting woodline generation on Arabia almost a year ago
Heavily nerf or completely rework Gurjaras
Make deer that spawn a certain distance away from starting TCs unpushable
>QoL/muh immersion changes
Give each civ a unique castle, sell them as DLC if necessary
Rename Slavs to Rus, basically all relevant slav civs were added by now so this title is outdated
Bohemians (and Magyars?) moved to central euro, Persians to central asian architecture set - both civs were heavily influenced by western architecture, especially the urbanized Bohemians and Persian architecture is much more central asian than middle eastern
Spleeters are moronic, but you could argue that if the Burgundians got in as Franks but better gunpowder, the Habsburgs could too as Teutons but better gunpowder. The question is if we NEED another cavalry and gunpowder civ because there's already a lot of those.
>but you could argue that if the Burgundians got in as Franks but better gunpowder
Well adding burgundy was a mistake anyways, should have been de Dutch and let them die as another water civ. Maybe their mills could also give gold like Civ V (I don't know much about them anyways as you might have noticed)
Burgundy got in solely based on gameplay merit and theme, being a taste of Age of Empires 3 with redefined counter relationships for infantry and gunpowder units.
And gold from mills is just dumb. They're a "Greater Lowlands" civ anyway, just with paladins instead of naval tech.
what do carpets do? I thought they were just pointless map doodads like cacti.
>what do carpets do?
It's just a carpet for every time we get a new KotD tournament
Definitely agree with the architecture changes.
They changed byzantines, so why not persians.
Remove the archerline entirely
Buff infantry
Buff cavalry archer
Give huns, magyars and turks steppies
Give dravs elite bellies
Give malay, burmese and khmer ram elephants
I would start all games in the feudal age
Thank god you aren't a dev
/vst/ always reminds me how much worse devs could be.
Sorry but dark age is just an APM test with a dash of RNG, it is not fun
Midwit take.
You saying frantically placing farms in castle age while fighting is easier?
better than having a deer decide to run in circles around a house or get within 3 tiles of your tc but then decide to slowly walk back to where it started.
>Not making your own build orders
>Pushing deer and complaining
yeah let me just make my own build order that's slower for no reason and can afford less units than people who played the deer minigame but at least I'm being original. I think it's funny how everyone finally admitted that pointless apm sinks like larva inject were shit in sc2, but everyone still defends the dark age creeping shit in this game.
>yeah let me just make my own build order that's slower for no reason
"Slower" build orders have better econ, and the point of the dark age is to set up an economy to match your intended play. This isn't Starcraft, where you just spam blue mineral for everything. Timing things like wood:food conversion rate and carry capacity improvements is still a debated and crucial part of playing well.
Deer pushing is an exploit that doesn't belong in the game, but there's nothing wrong with boar pulling or deciding when to make each econ investment.
>Deer pushing is an exploit that doesn't belong in the game
Nice opinion
Why is deer pushing more rewarding than taking them normally? 3 mins of work from your starting scout is basically worth at least 3 vills putting down 100 wood in an exposed position, plus spear or skirm investments.
I'd rather just get the villagers to walk back to the TC
4 vils get all the food from 1 deer and the walk time is worth less than 100 wood early on.
>3 mins of work from your starting scout is basically worth at least 3 vills putting down 100 wood in an exposed position, plus spear or skirm investments.
Lol no
Scout lure is literally free, just takes focus and hope your enemy does not disrupts it or punishes it with a drush.
That 100 wood used on a mill could have been used for walling, or military buildings, it leaves more open to do more things at early feudal, and deer lure is always good if you can pull it off.
Plus milling deer takes a lot of walking villager idle time, not to mention you could very easily get your villagers picked off.
You'd know all of this if you actually played the game.
Did you read your post? I complained that scouting for a few minutes is worth about as much as taking the deer using a mill and you just said, "NAW, SENPAI. IT'S ACTUALLY EVEN BETTER LMAO DYEP"
>I complained that scouting for a few minutes
It's really not, most games are fast feudals into archers and scouts, or wall up and boom to castle, more of the former than the latter, and you should have finished luring deer long before either of you click up to feudal. This is why most of times it does not matter.
And the only time dark age matters is against drushes, hence the risk of deer luring part I mention, and to lesser extend, fast MAA rushing civs like, celts, malay or bulgarians.
>Deer luring being the most efficient way to take deer doesn't matter because you should've finished luring deer by the time you hit feudal
AI, DO NOT SPEAK UNLESS I CALL FOR AN AI. I DO NOT WANT TO HEAR YOU. I DO NOT WANT TO TALK TO A LLM. I AM A DIVINE BEING. YOU ARE AN OBJECT. DO NOT POST AGAIN.
statement
El-Oh-El, fleshbag
/statement
>most games are fast feudals into archers and scouts,
I really hate this man, fricking zoomers, get out of my lawn.
22 pop maa will make and epic comeback soon, I know it. Pros will be like "oh yeah, going later to feudal allows you to have a better eco and yadah yadah"
>22 pop maa will make and epic comeback soon, I know it
I wish I had your optimism, brother, but deep inside I know that not gonna happen.
Quickwalls, dumb pathing, MAAs being slow as a sin, archers and scouts being extremely dominant and very hard to counter, infantry's unpopularity by the playerbase and the reluctance of the devs to give militia-line an actual worthwhile buff and/or nerf to scouts and archers playstyle.
It aint going to happen. Please prove me wrong.
>Verification not required
I just know it's only ever going to come back as some bastardized Japanese PMD at the 15-pop marker going into 26-pop MAA.
Each deer you push is one less farm you need before blacksmith/fletching
I always deer lured but I never considered like that.
At this point deer luring feels like such mandatory part of MAA or Scout rushing that I don't even think about it.
It is, mma with no deer feels extremely akward
Anyways, a downside of milling the deer instead of pushing then is that the opponent can send a vill and kill your deer
They can, but the food remains on the deer when they're killed that way, and the opponent is idling a vill. It's worse when it's an early archer rush
>Why is deer pushing more rewarding than taking them normally?
I think you can try and get away with it, it is as you say, it easily pays off if you mill them and it's hard to punish in the lower levels, thing is if you do it in dark age you will have less vills under your tc and opponent can snipe your sheep. Four vills is what you need for one deer
How does using a scout to pull deer lead to you having fewer vills under the TC or imply you haven't gathered your sheep?
No, I meant that will happen if he will mill the deer, not push it
I said slower for no reason. a build that starts with 5 on wood and makes a gold camp before going up at 21 is not going to have a better econ than a standard build that goes up on 20.
deer pushing is a shit apm sink. all it does is test players to see if they can multitask enough to keep up with bullshit random movement while not messing up the rest of their build.
yeah you can do it without deer but against a player who did even one deer you will have 140 less food that could have been spent on a spear to defend from your scouts or another scout to have more than you or just getting to castle a few seconds faster.
>deer pushing is a shit apm sink.
Scrub take.
>all it does is test players to see if they can multitask enough to keep up with bullshit random movement while not messing up the rest of their build.
Just because you can't keep up does not mean it's a bad thing, maybe try improving your skills instead of sharing dumb takes.
moron you don't even have a point to make. you say it's not an apm sink but then say to get good. which is it?
>moron you don't even have a point to make
I have, you simply ignored it.
>you say it's not an apm sink
It feels like an APM sink for you because you have low APM and/or terrible attention span, half decent player can lure deer effortlessly so long the deer dont act moronic.
>then say to get good
Indeed you should get good.
so you admit that it's an apm sink but are moving the goalposts to claim that it's not a big deal
>so long the deer dont act moronic
which is like every other game
>so you admit that it's an apm sink
It's not. You just feel like that because you suck.
An actual APM sink would be microing monks. Deer luring is not.
>which is like every other game
Yeah, but still worth to try, free food is too good to pass on.
Last (You).
cloning monks isn't an apm sink. deer herding is the same as larva inject in sc2. stupid shit that takes extra clicks for no reason except that you fall behind if you don't do it.
>deer herding is the same as larva inject in sc2. stupid shit that takes extra clicks for no reason except that you fall behind if you don't do it.
Why are zoomzooms so soulless?
>I said slower for no reason. a build that starts with 5 on wood and makes a gold camp before going up at 21 is not going to have a better econ than a standard build that goes up on 20
Then don't do that.
Extra food in dark age is almost a must have, and always worth luring even if deer pathing is moronic. Still deer luring is very important.
Just because you don't like it or can't deer push doesnt mean it's a bad thing.
>it's the sc2 tard at it again
No, you don't have to push deer. I can easily pull a 19 pop scouts/archer opening on Arabia without pushing in a single deer while being mid elo, because the gather rate increase from it is insignificant unless you are 2k+ and you are going for 18 pop feudal with no loom.
Do you even play the game or are you here just to shitpost about starcraft?
hey Liereyy good luck in HC5
Spotted the 800 ELO
Just play empire wars
i told you already, a polynesian DLC featuring the Maoris, the Tongans, and the Hawaiians
have a nice day
deer spawn further from the tc but don't have an attention timer
Buff infantry and this also
>UUs too similar to regular units become regular unit upgrades (longbowman, samurai, woad raider, rattan archer and so on)
>Cav Archer created at the stable.
>Petards do 100 damage to units instead of 25.
>More civs get access to Steppe Lancer, Winged Hussar, Legionaire
>Less civs get access to Cav archer
>Less civs get access to fully upgraded regular units such as champions, halberdiers, paladins and hussars.
>Armenians, Bulgarians, Byzantines and Georgians get a new architecture set
>Persians get Central Asian architecture set
>Bohemains get Central European architecture set
>Turning massed archers into hard archer counters
>Not letting castle training times or unique costs/downsides control the unit's balance
I'd also increase archer training speed by a shitload.
Elite units have different skins from non-elite.
>How do I beat Briton Xbows?
>And don't you dare tell me the answer is skirmishers!
What are Burmese and Turk players doing in this matchup?
>>And don't you dare tell me the answer is skirmishers!
It's really not.
>What are Burmese and Turk players doing in this matchup?
Lots of cavalry.
Art of War campaign literally encourages archer kiting to finish it with gold lel. Go play a 4x shit lord
>Hera getting blasted for criticizing T90
Love seeing two rabid fanbases go after each other.
T90 is such a sensitive little gay. Hera too. Makes sense, since only narcissists want to become ecelebs.
>Almost February
>Still no patch fixing the pathfinding
>Meanwhile devs are probably working on some garbage DLC
They update pathfinding every update and it gets worse. Stop fricking asking for changes to it dumbfrick.
>Stop fricking asking for changes to it dumbfrick
Why would he do that. He wants a good pathing. That's a change. It would be a good change if these eat eating Indian devs managed to do it.
HC5 Qualifiers Today!
>Streams
https://www.twitch.tv/t90official
https://www.twitch.tv/membtv
why does your picture look like that?
The brightness? I don't know.
>Turks with Berbers because genitours
>Italians with infantry civ because of condos
>Vietnamese with archer civs because of skirmishers
If you want to die in 2v2, Goth condos need more team mates to sling and stone walls. The other combinations will just get defeated by standard knight xbow play
>Hera changed his video title and thumbnail
Kek get fricked greaseball.
he got his ad revenue from people watching. time for you to forget about how greasy the turk is.
>time for you to forget
I still remember Hera ditching the community for LoL.
Only the most b***h of b***hes keep bringing that up. Look at you homosexual, anyone wanting to leave this community have all the right reasons to do so
Must suck to have come crawling back to us huh, Hera? Burn a few more bridges so we can laugh.
Anyone using Arambai?
All the time.
In which circumstances? I haven't touched Burmese following the tech reshuffle.
Every time I get them. Massed Arambai are the end game.
Lrn 2 monk
Does it beat space-controlled arbs or massed elite skirm?
No but luckily you have other options for those.
Why would you use massed arambai late when you have more consistent options elsewhere?
Because they're fun.
No and I get pissed off when I random into Burmese because they are the worst civ in the game right now
does de fix the unit ai so if you want a villager to run away from a wolf that's chewing his ass you don't have to spam click move with 200 apm?
The villager will defend itself if attacked by gaia animals.
I know but what if I want him to run away instead of fighting? I can't just click back to my base because he will take one step and then reaggro on the wolf.
looks fun.
What's a build order
A short list of resource spreads telling you where to place your villagers to consistently get X output by the time you meet your opponent.
bw is a better game
HC5 Qualifiers Today
>Streams
https://www.twitch.tv/membtv
https://www.twitch.tv/dave_aoe
kys
>Exciting updates
>Age of Empires mobile
>Civ splitters btfo
Kek fricking love to see it
Did something happen?
Age of Empires II: Definitive Edition: We’ll reveal a brand-new campaign-focused expansion and an extended look at exclusive gameplay.
https://www.ageofempires.com/news/new-year-new-age-announcement/
>campaign-focused expansion
I will buy it despite not liking campaigns. It's not about the money, it's about sending a message
>campaign-focused expansion
Finally the devs fricking heard.
Like it's all cool but we have too many civs and I will be content with just having more campaigns
>an entire day of seething over deer
I'll do it on maps where they spawn close by, but on Arabia I will take map information over 60 wood saved in a mid feudal economy any time of the day.
>AoM Retold
fricking finally
>AoE Mobile
This has to be for the asian market, mobile games are huge there and no one else would ever bother playing an RTS on phone.
I also wonder how AoE3 is doing lately.
We're complaining because luring is the only viable way to take deer. The distance nerf made milling and walking less profitable and more dangerous.
That nerf made pushing deer even less viable, you can push 2-3 deer in on other maps while you push 1 on Arabia and it is very debatable if that is worth the effort. Milling deer was always risky and it is not any less profitable than it was before, assuming you go out to take them in feudal when you have the eco to keep up production while 4 vills are moving.
Milling is also worse, if your mill villagers get caught out by army they aren't getting back to the TC
Realistically if they got caught outside by an army that is a threat to them they wouldn't be able to make it back to the TC anyway on either generation.
I do want to run some tests like SotL does to see how much time milling deer requires and how much scouting info are you missing from pushing and compare it with old Arabia.
>Realistically if they got caught outside by an army that is a threat to them they wouldn't be able to make it back to the TC anyway on either generation.
Moving vills during an attack is much more complex than that.
If their gather point is in the TC (safe) they'll have a larger chance to be on their way home by the time enemies appear.
If they're dropping off on a mill, it either has a tower nearby to garison them in or they'll be nowhere near as safe if they were walking towards the town center.
Reminder that 4 vills per deer is enough to get all food in one trip so I stand by my earlier point that it's just better to have the hunters walk a bit.
There really has to be a point where sane people stop trying to argue the ridiculous. Someone towering deer is virtually unheard of, and it being necessary to explain how an increase in distance impacts scout-luring more than villager-luring, should be a massive sign to anyone that the argument being made is untenable.
I never said you should tower deer, but deer can definitely spawn near gold/trees where you could build a tower to protect other resource gatherers.
I mean you could, we've seen pros walk vills for deer before, but it is so inefficient it might be worth milling anyway. You obviously will need army presence to defend them with or enough map control to get away with sneaking out of your base either way. Towering your deer of all things preemptively is just a waste however.
>nooo you cannot discuss early economy you HAVE to follow the build order I paid 50 dollars for!
whatever you say you 1k gigashitter
>>nooo you cannot discuss early economy you HAVE to follow the build order
Deer luring is not inherently a BO thing, is something you can pull off, similar to boar lure. Dumbass.
>the build order I paid 50 dollars for!
I come up with my own BO's I'm not a shitter nor a simp that buys BOs from pros.
what the hell are you talking about army presence? the whole point of deer herding is getting extra food in dark age. and building a mill on deer means not building a mill on shrubs which means you are losing 750 food to gain 420. unless you are building 2 mills, but then you won't have enough wood to build your stable/range as soon as you hit feudal unless you take workers off food for wood which defeats the purpose of going after deer to begin with.
It will also delay consuming all the berries, and you don't want food vills in berries past late feudal
If you haven't noticed, I am talking about going out for the leftover deer in feudal, not once have I suggested milling the deer in dark age but of course you lack reading comprehension.
>oh no I have 4 villagers walking out of 25 my efficiency is not 95% this is gg
>oh no I did not make a single unit or gain map control in any way
>100 wood invested into taking 3x140 extra food is le bad trust me dude
>has 0 map info and builds a cuck shed for a base
For someone whose only argument was and still is just calling other people shitters and brag about your OC donutsteel build orders you sure have no idea what you are talking about and would rather discuss civ spleets instead of how to play the game.
Post your elo if you even have any.
>Post your elo if you even have any.
, now post yours.
>I am talking about going out for the leftover deer in feudal
you went off on a tangent then because everyone else was talking about how you are forced to herd deer in dark age or fall behind
>unless you are building 2 mills, but then you won't have enough wood to build your stable/range as soon as you hit feudal unless you take workers off food for wood
Build the mill only when vill inventories are full.
Then your not going to have food for scouts/your blacksmith is going up late
Neither.
The distance affects both the risk and gather rate more than the minor inconvenience that comes with scout idle time.
It only took 25 years for them to understand they can make money by just selling campaign pack
took them long enough
>More fricking expansions
>Still no fixes
I want an archer buff too brother, hold strong.
New Briton UU:
Cost: 45f, 15g
Stats (Elite):
HP: 60 (70)
Attack: 7 (9)
Attack bonus: +30 vs Cavalry, +12 vs Elephants
Attack speed: 3.00
Armor: +1/+1 (+1/+2)
Armor class: Infantry
Creation time: 10 (8) seconds
This is basically a Halberdier with better pierce armor and that doesn't take bonus damage against skirms. Also +2 attack over the Halb which makes it better in general melee fights.
Longbowman replaces Crossbow at the Archery Range.
Cool. Let me check when I asked.
>Buffing Britons
moron
>singlehandedly keeps aoe2 clean of SC gays
Didn't know asiatics were terrified of this
It keeps AoE2 clean of anybody who actually wants to play a proper competitive game. It's literal luck when the deer decide to not be herded when you do everything properly.
>Tryhard Thursdays
Thats every day of the week Hera
Hera seems like one of those people that just can't separate fun and try harding. His fun is try harding. I wonder how long before he burns out.
>wonder how long before he burns out.
Burned our arc it's way over. Why you think he went to aoe4 and lol(or was it Dota?)
He wants to be the next viper but viper could appeal to the western audience easily just by being white
Hera would have even more fans if he knew how to write a script or give detailed evaluations.
Hera talking is word vomit, also talks like a fricking zoomer moron. I can't handle it.
>It's only fun if you DON'T try to win!
Go back, Gankerermin.
I might have lost my 1600 rating but they still fear me and my mighty celts
Is the mule cart good on cross, with Georgians you will go to wood a bit later but you don't need to make lumber camp, a shame everything about the civ is ass except the UU
>Just micro better bro
Goths vs Bulgarians
Japanese vs Burmese
Huns vs Huns
A tower for your deer is a big investment, a mill isn't worth it on Arabia when you take 200 km to walk there
It's really not 200km
4 vills still bring all the food. Unless you can get 6+ deer with a single mill it's worth not building it and saving the wood while your scout is being useful.
>Hera makes a video about using a unit or countering a strat
>Wins either because of good macro, or because his opponent makes an exploitable, easily-fixed blunder.
>Shows off the relevant item for the video, even if it played only a small part in his victory or was eclipsed by some other factor
>Comments treat it as the best thing ever
>pros/high Elos make blunders
>noooo it's not realistic to expect that in my 1200 Elo!
There is plenty of reasons to shit on Hera, just pick a valid one please
I'm not talking about minor mistakes. I mean game-deciding mistakes like an opponent refusing to garrison his monks during a push or make a unit that doesn't get countered both of the units Hera teched into. It makes it a bad example and shows neither how you're supposed to respond to a threat, nor what you should do against an enemy actually paying attention to his units.
And it's not just Hera. Viper does this with Rathas and Arambai,
What are some cool/interesting matches?
I'm watching the Hidden Cup qualifiers right now and there have been some crazy games.
All this talk for deer milling really shows the average poster here is below 800 ELO
Literally anywhere else you'd get laugh at by suggesting deer milling nowadays.
>Verification not required
Learn to read. We're talking about the fact that deer luring has eclipsed deer milling and long-distancing.
Romans, romans everywhere.
>Deer luring is not inherently a BO thing
>self proclaimed genius completely misses the point and starts arguing about semantics
>still no argument 2 posts in
Concession accepted, maybe if you actually played the game you could tell us why any other way of taking deer is objectively inferior to pushing them in instead of talking out of your ass.
Not even worth a (You).
>Mill: -100 wood plus walking time and security issues
>Long distance: Depends how far and where the deer are located, every villager you send to deer could be chopping wood, mining gold, working farms, walling. There are two types of civ bonus that help, movement speed and carry capacity, Vikings have both because of wheelbarrow, Berbers just have vill speed, Aztecs get carry capacity which is just enough. This is important because when you send 4 villagers they are not using all their carry capacity and are bumping more, 3 villagers does it slightly more efficiently especially if they have good carry bonuses. Spirit of the law covers this topic in a video : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-VnefT0jRs
Also Megarandom generations its usually decent to mill the deer, in arena you have to push them in, that is all you can do in dark age, some acropolis generations have deer close to your berries
1) Lots of walking vill idle time
2) Can be easily picked off by an early game rush
3) 100 wood wasted instead of using it for literally anything
4) Scouting is not that important outside drushes and lames
Those are your arguments, shitter.
No matter what you say the truth is unchanging
Deer Lure is better than Milling Deer.
God I hate noobs that talk without knowing anything about the game.
don't bother any more, you can't convince him
Fine, I give up
>I come up with my own BO's I'm not a shitter nor a simp that buys BOs from pros.
I love Low Elo Legends. Those are some of the funniest AoEII videos out there. Also the most relatable.
everybody know you need build order from pro to have fun
HC powah
I still find funny how people expect mangos and monks to work against HCs, pro tip: they dont
how would you buff handcannoneers?
I wouldn't, they are fine as they are.
Buffing infantry indirectly buffs handcannons
indirectly buffing handcannoners you are buffing knights
Properly positioned HCs beat knights. Play better.
>Play better.
never
Fair enough, have fun.
thanks! u2
Do you? In my games Hand Cannoners do well against cavs, struggle against paladins but they still do way better than throwing arbalests at paladins.
Sure knight-line soft counters HCs but not by much, a horsegay still has to respect a doomstack of 40 HCs. If anything you'd be archer-line since it's the easiest counter to HCs
I guess mangos fare pretty good against hc but since bohemians hc's are much faster they can easily dodge and punish mangos?
Not really, my rush does not include Faster moving Gunpodwer Bohemian castle tech, so they move the same as xbows.
The gist is that HCs can easily destroy mangos due their 16 damage, you just need between 4 and 6 HCs to one shot a mangonel.
>between 4 and 6 HCs
I think the number you are looking for is 5.
Yeah, probably, I always move out with 6 HCs and by the time I'm bringing down enemy gates I have 12 HCs when I walk in the enemy base
Damn, Ganji - Villese series today was pretty epic.
For some reason this qualifier had a lot of upsets and many big names are already out by people generally ranking lower than them like Andy, Villese, dogao and Nicov. If this continues MbL and Barles might not qualify either.
I really wonder what causes this, is the larger prize pool working as a motivator?
>For some reason this qualifier had a lot of upsets and many big names are already out by people generally ranking lower than them like Andy, Villese, dogao and Nicov
In hindsight, isnt this a good thing? You know, having many and different big names, and not always the same ones on a tournament is healthy for the pro scene.
It is, I hope we get to see others than the usual top 20.
DauT and ACCM are slowly approaching their 40s and it hasn't impacted their performance yet and the only ones I can think of that are fully committed to playing are Viper and Hera, the rest mostly have a job of some kind. Also those two apparently get a lot more income from streaming than actual tournaments.
>is the larger prize pool working as a motivator?
Andy is a surprise after his recent performances, but not Villese imo. Pretty sure he's been busy with college and hasn't been playing as much. Dogao also hasn't been performing well recently and Nicov only seems interested in team games based off how he's talked and played lately.
You foget that people also get older and some don't have much time to train. Not all people compeating are full time AoEII pros.
HC5 Qualifiers Round of 24 is starting
>Currently
Barles vs. Daniel
>Upcoming
MBL vs. Capoch
Valas vs. Sobek
>Streams
https://www.twitch.tv/membtv
https://www.twitch.tv/t90official
https://www.twitch.tv/dave_aoe
https://www.twitch.tv/tatohaoe
>mills and even towers the deer
Barles reads the thread and is an 800 elo shitter confirmed
You get fish and deer so it makes more sense to tower that position
HE'S KILLING THE MANGOMEL WITH DE LONGBOATZ
A chilean, an uruguayan and maybe a brasilian will get into the main event of Hidden Cup
meanwhile all the Argentinians are out
BUENO, gracias a dios que estan fuera esos insoportables
Sebas is Argentinian
Hera is Argentinian
Las lágrimas son siempre de Mexico y Chile
>Hera is Argentinian
He's Lebanese.
I think he's a saracen whose family is in argentina but he lives in leafland
I thought it was the other way around? His family is in Canada but he moved to Argentina for some reason?
>Hera is Argentinian
Dios mio, I still cant believe he's in my country
Must be living like a king since his income must be in dollars
I make sure to donate to Hera in Argentinian pesos. Fricker.
Basado
I respect that
Hera is as Argentinian as Daniel is American.
Also whoever the frick voted Michi into the team games map pool for the next 2 weeks deserves to suffer.
Rate my map votes
Anything is better than Michi.
why is the map pool in this game so garbage? you literally don't get enough bans to avoid both w*ter and maps where you start with shit already built.
you will unban water maps
you will play water maps
and you will be happy
There has to be a way to cheese those without playing a water map civ. Burgundian bombards can frick up ships horribly, and coastal kreposts make fish trap eco untouchable. Something like those.
I usually use civ with strong early eco bonus like celt, japs, viking and do all in land invasion + barrack spam, if I'll fail I'm quitting, I've heard in team games slinging as pocket is pretty effective but I still have to try it
I will NOT play water maps
I will NOT poosh le deer (on Arabia)
I will NOT play mesos or indians (not racis just don like em design simple as)
I will NOT quickwall
I will NOT asiaticclick
I WILL mill le deer in feudal (on Arabia)
I WILL play Sicilians, Teutons and Vikings
and I WILL get to 2k
7/10. Would prefer moats to Mountain pass but it's not bad..
Sebas is uruguayan
also frick Hera
>uruguayan
Same thing
Palworld devs are AoE chads
https://twitter.com/urokuta_ja/status/1691402254644068353
Since the thread is absolute fricking dead
Hidden Cup V will have an exclusive patch from MS to fix all the pathing/teleport bugs
what do you think of this? is a good idea to test a patch in a tournament?
>is a good idea to test a patch in a tournament?
Yes. Imagine the seethe if someone loses because of the NEW pathing fix. I can't wait.
It is good that there is someone pushing for new patches. Hopefully we get the patch too. This will come to the rest of us, right?
there's a big announcement on the 23 for the 25 anniversary of the game, so probably the new patch will come at the end of the month
There is nothing left to talk about for now, everyone is waiting for PUP, HC5 and whatever announcement they want to make. Think about the patch as a 2 months late hotfix, pretty sure they already tested it with the pros.
And remember, this is all because of the Xbox release, consolegays and their consequences have been a disaster for the RTS community.
Why didn't Xbox just get their own game? No Xbox player plays against PC players anyway.
>There is nothing left to talk about for now,
How about the new Ram strategy with Turks?
%3D
>Try to ram down TC
>Still dies to villagers
>There is nothing left to talk about for now
Preferred castle locations?
Always on a hill.
I mean relative to the rest of your base.
On a fricking hill brother did I stutter?
So, not in the middle of your farm eco, not in a corner of the map, and not at the front of a stone-walled base?
>There is nothing left to talk
You must be fun to be around
And now we're back to discussing deer taking while blaming everything from pathing and (not even indian) devs to hera&vipur spreadsheets. Is this really what you want?
It's because you tard(s) can't stop comparing two vastly different games and demand that we cater to your shit tastes while you can't push deer even on Arena if you play the game at all in the first place.
t. ranjesh
Anon, it's pointless
>They're treating deer pushing as some skill benchmark now
Deva, pls fix
>and now we are back to talk about the game
You have mental issues
>Crossbows will no longer walk into mangonel shots
How will we tell who daut is?
We are going to get it, they wouldn't spend 2 years only to get it ready for hidden cup
>How will we tell who daut is?
>is named princess
>says he 3:0 Viper in first round
>iconic castle drops
I just want that shit fixed and I want it now
>I want militia line to counter archers
>And knights
>Oh and siege
>Can it be used to raid too?
>Militia line do everything please!
Thinking about it, releasing the patch to the pros first is a good move. If they approve everyone else will as well since 90% of AoE2's community just follows whatever the top players say.
I wish the rebuff Bulgarians, i really liked playing them back in the day but now with all those hypertweaked new factioins it is a real struggle.
Frick it. Remove deer.
>Dumbing down the game
that implies that deer existing makes the game smarter. you could get essentially the same strategic element by hiding more sheep on the map or something.
>buff britons
no
>deer existing makes the game smarter
It does. Dumb homosexuals like (You) seething proves it
>same strategic element by hiding more sheep
Gather rates for sheep and deer are not the same. Fast feudal are just not possible to execute smoothly without luring deer, even 21 maa is a pain in the booty without hunting
the only pro of deer existing is that it has a strategic decision of letting a player delay scouting for more econ. the con is that it's an apm sink unlike anything else in the game and relies on moronic unit pathing. it isn't fun, you basically have to do it, and even pros get annoyed when the little homosexuals get stuck on trees or run in circles.
Deer are supposed to be taken either as a risky pre-farm food extension during early feudal, or as a bonus food source on your second tc when playing archer econ (14 farms).
Pushing is a glitch.
I would be happy if they replaced deer with a 3rd boar that's too far away for a villager to lure so you have to use your scout if you want it.
Why would you go out of your way to make the problem worse?
luring boars is less annoying than herding deer
The problem is that scouts are directly involved in eco, not that the deer are too skittish.
We're trying to restore their role as an optional alternative to HC farms for aggressive feudal play that puts people out on the map, providing a risk during feudal instead of incentivizing walling for 1-range stall into fc knight play.
>the con is that it's an apm sink unlike anything else in the game
Is not.
I would tell you to get good but it's not even necessary to be a good player to be able to lure deer and carry on with your day whitout b***hing about it.
Get mid
everything else in the game is degrees of success. if you have a villager idle for 10 seconds before you reseed a farm you are only slightly behind. if you don't micro your knights and they don't do max damage you are only a little worse than you could have been. on the other hand if you get the deer halfway back but then spend .5 seconds too long changing your tc rally it will frick off back to the start and it's like you never moved it at all. the only other task in this game that demands immediate micro or you lose everything is dodging mangonels. even hera loses a deer sometimes.
>degrees of success
Such as food gathering. Just shut the frick up already, if you don't lure deer but make sure to NEVER have more than 60 wood on feudal you will be winning games more consistently
>Never make production buildings
>Don't make mining camps
>Don't mill deer
>Don't build a market/blacksmith
lol
Spoken like a true moron. Good job
if you accidentally kill 2 sheep at the same time you only lose a small percentage of their food. if you forget to force drop off your boar you only get a few seconds of idle time. if your deer runs back you get 0 food instead of 140. that is why it is so annoying. plus herding the deer takes way more clicking than anything else you do in dark age.
If you stop sucking dick for one second, you are not a homosexual for one second.
My patience has been affected by deer pushing.
Wrong, it was tested and the result is subpar, and it wasn't the deer but the pathing, which is the fault of Indians which means you can't stand browns so your patience is back to normal levels
>, which is the fault of Indians
Here's the Forgotten Empires dev team.
Me on the left
You're the fruity lookin' homie top middle
The pathing is irrelevant. Scouts shouldn't be moving deer to your TC.
>The pathing is irrelevant
This is everything you have to read about deer hating SC wienersucker asiatics
>casuals not seethe about chadcraft challenge
Not our fault a self admitted SCgay is infesting this thread, instead of fricking off to an actual SC thread.
I'm not the SC guy.
>new meso civ
>start with 2 spearmen instead of eagle scout
>1-range skirm-fc or M@A trush every single game
>Wanting this on a meso
we don't need more civs
I want more civs. Every miniscule part of Europe got more than was necessary, but my favorite medieval civs still aren't in the game.
How do you fix Georgians? They are really bad
they arent bad, they are just too one-sided into monaspas, but nothing is stopping you for doing cav archers or infantry
They're pretty fricking bad
Looks fine.
>T90 will get no blowback if he's lying about the patch
dude seek attention all the time
And that's a good thing
Man this player base is so spoiled. I've played so many games with far worse dev teams than this.
People will both complain and eat shit no matter the game.
Doesn't help that the game is so old people developed entire lifespans of devotion to what they think the game should represent.
I think deers are fine as they are, actually.
Its not a deer problem its an Arabia problem
Arabia is a pretty shit map.
That's because Arabia is SHIT and everyone takes SPREADSHEET BUILDS from HERA AND VIPUR
And in FIFTEEN MINUTES
HORSES AND IGUELOS IN MY ECONOMY
Viper doesn't make build orders for people. Where did this forced meme come from?
>IGUELOS
IGUALOS*
My spreadsheets bring all the boys to the yard, damn right they are better than yours
these stats are surprising. how does arena end up being only 2 minutes slower than arabia? do most games really go to imperial before ending?
Yeah. It's almost impossible to do game-ending damage against someone determined to just play for castle age on Arabia.
I don't think it's that surprising when you realize the vast majority of the playerbase is unlikely to finish a game in feudal age. These threads watch tournaments a lot so they see a lot of feudal play but I don't think most games under 1200-1300 elo are like that at all.
Of course they are. Im 1200 and all the way down to 1000 elo you are getting scout rushed every game.
Why are you under the impression arabia is an open map?
After all this b***hing, I just want to remind you that handcannoneers deserve a buff.
Thank you and have fun.
I'm watching these old t90 fatslob videos and I'm wondering did anyone think to beat him by fast chopping through the shortest tree path and rushing light cav into his base before he can get to imp? I think a way to do it even on the conqueror's patch is to chop 3 trees once each so they turn into felled trees, then build a farm on top of them, then cancel the farm. this would let you fairly quickly make a 3 tree wide path through the forest without having to tech to trebs and only requiring 1-3 villagers.
oh wait nvm it doesn't work
That's a khmer move (ballista). It's very neat, even if it's somewhat risky as an investment before imp.
Yeah it's only stragglers you can build over.
I thought he hosted himself and forced you to play vikings or something?
???
nobody can't convince me that ~1k elo isn't full of 1.6k smurfs
you're just not 1k material bro
come back down to the 800 club
When you get to be a regular 1250 you will be embarrassed of this post. Stomping low Elo players is NOT fun.
>This guy destroyed me
>Lets not look at the replay and see where I went wrong, he was probably a smurf
I don't remember posting this but I clearly did it
agreed, smurf 100%
>this Black person didnt make enough handcannoneers
lmao.
AIIIIIEEEEE I-IS THAT APM!?!
Black folk DETECTED
Guys remember to leave negatives reviews to the game in steam mentioning the pathing, is not even "review bombing" because it's game related and it would be sad if some new friend buys the game only to find it in this atrocious state not even being able to enjoy the campaigns
They already fixed pathing in the HC5 patch. Stay booty blasted.
why is winged hussar a separate unit when regular hussars already have wings?
Because Winged Hussars weren't added until a DLC and they're still part of the same unit line anyway just a regional version for a couple civs with slightly different stats.
yeah but calling them winged hussar doesn't distinguish them in any way since regular hussars have wings too. it would be like if they made a regional champion called "caped champion."
They have a different color.
Anyone else can't stop talking about Aoe2 with strangers?
He didn't read a single word of that wall of text
>He
You mean she. Thats the Bumble dating app.
After 2 hour long gameI don't want to see michi again in map pool
Shitters love it.
I mean it's fun from time to time boom and have huge battle in middle but for most part you micro bombards and siege onagers for hour or longer
It's probably good to have a late game map in the pool just to have the option there, can always ban it if not in the mood. Black Forest is a late fuedal/early castle age map contrary to popular belief
I used to hate black forest but early aggression does wonders on this map
>you can always ban
but I already said that you don't even have enough bans just for water and garbage maps where you start with buildings how am I going to ban this too?
how do I drush with 17 villagers? I skip mill but even with 2 deer I barely have enough food to click up on time and then I have to spam drop off to get enough food to make 2 militia so I end up getting to the enemy about 20 seconds later than I want to.
How do Aztec vills taking strags compare to lumber camps?
Not picking up stragglers as any civ is a waste of resouces
>but muh lumber efficiency
Yea sure that +5 wood you got over the last 10 minutes is worth it.
I mean just during the dark age.
Infantry bros...I'm scared...
Tarkan powa'
Luv tarkans
Luv hussars
Luv Bohemian castle age HCs
Luv infantry
Luv siege
Luv woad raiders
Luv berserks
Simple as
MY GOODNESS
Arena is to 1v1 what arabia is to team games
>Check T90s stream
>They are still playing the qualifiers
What is this joke of a tourney lol
There's still qualifiers tomorrow.
>complains about something he knows nothing about and clearly doesn't even watch
based
Explain
I want a mace unit.
>what is militia
>what are konniks
>militia
A Dark Age unit
>Konnik
A flail.
Naruhodo
A weeb, eh?
obuch?
Warhammer.
yeah definitely not mace
Despite my disdain for archers, hand cannoners, G crossbows and rattans are very good and fun to use units
try plumed archers, they might be best raiding archers
Nope, sorry, I hate Mayans.
Our boys just can't against the mobile aesthetics. Age bros....
>OP race that gets free units vs terran 2.0
Brave warriors of christ forcefully converting heathens, by bashing their heads in
Daily reminder that Warrior Priests in castle age are a massive powerspike you should always abuse
Predictions for Hidden Cup?
Just saw most maps are water/hybrids, like usual. So I'm gonna bet Viper wins this.
Stacked roster this year though. Curious to see how Sebastian and Ganji does.
>2 new maps
Cool tournament, T90. Totally not recycled shit.
>using old maps is LE BAD because... It just is OK?
Yeah frick me for expecting more than 2 new maps for a tournament after 4 years. Let me get back to sucking T90's dick.
At least you understand. Frick you homosexual.
heard pajeets devs fixed regrouping and pathfinding, now for fricks sake prevent players with 200 ping from playing ranked games, I'm playing rts not turn based strategy game, I'm tired of one player with red ping preventing rest of players from having fun
>now for fricks sake prevent players with 200 ping from playing ranked games
Or we can ban Americans so you dont have to play with high players, because you wont be able to play
>Seething over Americans out of nowhere
It's always Americans that complain about ping and "third world" shit.
Everyone else at the very least ignore it, or dont mind it.
Even third-worlders with good internet don't want to share a connection with people who have shitty internet.
>Even third-worlders
You dont speak for them, silence American.
bet you have another tab open on Ganker or /misc/ right now where you're calling americans thirdworlders.
is this just some sort of cringe schrodinger's-racism where americans are alternatively firstworlders or thirdworlders depending on whichever you think is going to win you the fake internet argument?
>bet you have another tab open on Ganker or /misc/ right now where you're calling americans thirdworlders.
I stopped brownsing Ganker years ago and only simpletons (Americans) brownse /misc/
>is this just some sort of cringe schrodinger's-racism where americans are alternatively firstworlders
No, I simply find Americans annoying because this 'superior' attitude to anybody that is not an American, since Americans only know guns and post colonial era history you'd think medieval RTS would be a safe heaven from them, but sadly I was wrong, on top of that they also always complain about "ping", whereas literally anybody is used to it given you have to play with and against different parts of the globe, "third world" like genuinely thinking they are the only culture that matters, disregarding all other hundreds cultures of all historical areas.
I single them out because they are always the most loud ones in these threads. And I'm done pretending they are not.
Spanish units should be able to recover hp after taking a siesta.
Everytime you kill conquistador it split in two conquistador's
Me historylet
Me no get joke
Every unit does that inside a castle.
Also Herbal Medicine is a great tech, you fricks are losing money by not exploiting it.
Cringe.
Even with some uplifting The Forgotten's one-off scenarios are mostly ass.
Which is a bloody shame, the devs could easily hit gold given how much the playerbase loves the campaigns.
Also this reminds me, they kinda abandoned the co-op campaigns, I played a couple of them but they kinda were too easy.
What I did play of the co-op campaigns felt like they barely compensated for having a second player on the field by any measure, maybe the first will lose some military buildings or starting units and that's it. Some of the DLC campaigns also feel like they'd be a natural fit as well, like Algirdas & Kestutis and Thoros, perhaps even Trajan on the RoR side.
Whatever the case, the overall quality has a lot greater since. Kangz and Rajas weren't too much better than Forgotten, though I'd think Royals didn't feel that great either. Not sure what I was expecting with Return of Rome but I was sort of hoping the AoE 1 campaigns would've been remade at a better standard but they're just weird mixes of original and DE scenarios instead, not even having the outro dialogue.
forgotten campaigns sucks, last khans on other hand are pure gold
Mentally ill.
nice way to end bread m8