>why didn't booker and elizabeth realize they wouldn't be able to carry hundreds of tons of machinery out of the basement of a warehouse on their own?
Why do they think that skipping to a timeline where the machinery is where they need it to be actually brings the machinery to the person in the original timeline who requested them moved?
Why does Booker think his deal with original-Fitzroy still valid after jumping timelines like 5 times already, and reaching a timeline where he's a dead resistance hero who lead Fitzroy, and she voices her explicit relation toward her version of Booker and her sheer disbelief at a Booker standing before her alive?
I swear, if the game wasn't in first person, you would have seen Booker's brain leak out of his ears from how moronic he is.
I swear this was the last Western game that had an attractive female character. Around 2014 they started making b***hes ugly as sin. Now you gotta play Eastern European and jap games to see good women.
>literally everything is explained in game
Some of the stuff on that list is explained, but most of it is not
The entire Finkton chapter is some of the worst writing that's ever been in a video game
elaborate.
Shut up Ken
cope
2>1>>>>>>>>>>>[...]
I get not liking Infinite but people have to stop with the meme that two is somehow better than one because the game plays better when everything is literally worse If not just blatantly repeated
I really hate anons like you. You don't ever actually say anything, you deflect any criticism of a game with smug appraisal and you usually post cringy pictures of whatever waifu you're currently whacking to, usually to bait other anons into jacking off with you. You're the most boring kind of poster and I wish you would just frick off.
I posted a picture because the other anonymous internet user replied with a picture of Elizabeth to me. I'll gladly debate the merit to the game but nobody is giving me anything to attack except the one moron who somehow missed the point of the subtext of the game.
>literally everything is explained in game
Some of the stuff on that list is explained, but most of it is not
The entire Finkton chapter is some of the worst writing that's ever been in a video game
>not appreciating how good this game is
It's very hard to do if you've played the previous games. So much gameplay was stripped. Far too streamlines, far too linear. The story is up its own ass and is nowhere near as good as what 1 put out
fricking based thank you anon
[...]
elaborate.
[...]
cope
[...]
I get not liking Infinite but people have to stop with the meme that two is somehow better than one because the game plays better when everything is literally worse If not just blatantly repeated
It feels like you're baiting with opinions like that. Infinite has great atmosphere, and the gunplay is fun for a limited time, until around the lodge and statue areas. Handymen aren't fun to fight, and the constant reality jumping in Finkton is the most asinine plot in the series, which causes a lot of players who were still immersed in its shit story to just not give a frick, since why does it matter?
Just Scooby Doo your ass into a new reality where Booker became a hero so Fitsroy can kill you for no raisin, instead of jumping into a much more feasible reality where you just have a fricking airship or didn't lose the First Lady. I love how despite Elizabeth's faux altruism, she really doesn't give two fricking shits about Chen or his family.
exaggeration aside I do enjoy infinite for some of the reasons you listed I understand that mechanically the game is rough and the story has some Swiss cheese holes in it but I think it executes The way it tells the story and the ambition in a remarkable way. Handyman suck I agree. The reality jumping was handled well imo. She can't control the rules of the reality they go to
Many people think Vox Populi were justified. Yes they're moronic lefties, but still. The game was written by people who have the same politics. It's not difficult to believe they intended for those people to take away that message. Vox Populi did-du sumfin but they had no choice, they're oppressed, racism is the worst thing in the world etc.
[...] >What does this even mean?
It's kind of like how a TV show might show a israelite being neurotic and a bit of an butthole, but then will remind you he's a mega genius and a good guy really, he just gets oppressed too much by holocausts and shit. Now you can't say israelites are gary-stu's because they have a mild negative trait. >Doesn't mean King Louis didn't still have it coming.
See? This is it, the thing! "Yeah maybe they should have done it a bit differently, but ultimately they're 'still right'!
no not still. it's their own fault, not the games. You have no idea of the political persuasion the writers had and politics exists on a spectrum. Your conclusion requires miles wide stretching
that doesn't mean shit. You know how many right wing pundits are israeli? It's probably safe to say that the writers are lefties but they're probably the most normal lefties considering how well they handled the racism handle. Hacks would've made them overly sympathetic or try to justify their brutality but they didn't.
I think that the walking segments at the very beginning and Battleship Bay were some of the more enjoyable bits, since you could see Colombia as a living city instead of a target range. They almost had something like it in the city area of Soldier's Field, but fricked that up, too.
Oh man another Bioshock game! I wonder what kind of insightful political commentary it will ha- >RACISM BAD!!
Uh... that came out of nowhere. I'm sure the REAL commentary will start soon. >ooga booga bix nood muhfugga white boi yous betta join us vox populi and help destroy sky-merica! it be racist and sheeeeiiit!!
Sad.
The first game is literally laissez-faire capitalism is bad you fricking moron. If you're going to try to come at it with the political angle all the games are political. and not in the pretentious in your face kind of way that zoomers like to say but like it was intentional.
i'm sorry i bothered to play this pretentious, unsatisfying, clusterfrick
You are too moronic to reply to my post. You, your wife, her boyfriend and her son are now BARRED from replying to my posts until you can learn to read.
You somehow fumbled the subtext of Bioshock Infinite degrading it into your strawman version of it. You attacked the racism bad angle implying that it is somehow a trivial political angle to use saying it's not insightful and then afterwards missed the entire point of the vox populi and the blatant hypocrisy they display.
>he doesn't know that it's common in political fiction to give a person or group a 'bad' trait while reminding everyone they're still 'good' or 'right' (had no choice!) in order to trick normies and deflect criticism
Damn, maybe you need to take a class on this or read a book or something.
except in the base game they're not redeemed in any sort of way. The game doesn't remind you that they're good or justified their actions are explainable but the game's obvious intention is to show that the line was crossed a long time ago and that slaughtering civilians is completely unjustified regardless of the discrimination against them. The game isn't doing what you're saying it's doing. If any player plays the game and somehow takes away The message that with the vox populi did was wrong but they had no choice and I understand and ergo they were somewhat justified then they're the midwit not the game.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Many people think Vox Populi were justified. Yes they're moronic lefties, but still. The game was written by people who have the same politics. It's not difficult to believe they intended for those people to take away that message. Vox Populi did-du sumfin but they had no choice, they're oppressed, racism is the worst thing in the world etc.
What does this even mean? The game, up until BaS which everyone agrees is moronic, stuffs it in your face that the Vox are wrong and have gone full moron. The same way the French Revolution was wrong and everyone went full moron. Doesn't mean King Louis didn't still have it coming. And so did Comstock and Fink.
>What does this even mean?
It's kind of like how a TV show might show a israelite being neurotic and a bit of an butthole, but then will remind you he's a mega genius and a good guy really, he just gets oppressed too much by holocausts and shit. Now you can't say israelites are gary-stu's because they have a mild negative trait. >Doesn't mean King Louis didn't still have it coming.
See? This is it, the thing! "Yeah maybe they should have done it a bit differently, but ultimately they're 'still right'!
What does this even mean? The game, up until BaS which everyone agrees is moronic, stuffs it in your face that the Vox are wrong and have gone full moron. The same way the French Revolution was wrong and everyone went full moron. Doesn't mean King Louis didn't still have it coming. And so did Comstock and Fink.
>In spite of how badly the racism bad homosexualry was implemented into Columbia, at least it didn't make the Vox out to be gud bois who dindu nuffin and showed them to be moronic thugs with no end goal beyond destroying the city >DLC 2 literally reveals that Fitzroy was actually pretended to be moronic solely because Tweedledee and Tweedledum needed to speed up Elizabeth's character development
To be fair, NOTHING survived Burial at Sea's moronation
>the entire plot of Bioshock 1 was set in motion by Elizabeth >Elizabeth was the one who linked the Big Daddies with their Little Sisters. Which ended up being the wrong Big Daddy because the first Big Daddies to be linked to the Little Sisters were the Alpha series Big Daddies, not the Bouncers
for me it's how the ending of the game is explicitly "let's prune the entire 'comstock' branch from the multiverse" and yet there are still comstocks around she goes to personally murder. Also i never understood why elizabeth is so autistically obsessed over that one specific little sister she ends up dying for or why she antagonized ryan when she had no reason to and all reasons to seek help against fontaine
>Which ended up being the wrong Big Daddy because the first Big Daddies to be linked to the Little Sisters were the Alpha series Big Daddies, not the Bouncers
my dick got so hard when that pinky got cut off and you realize that elizabith isnt just some hot braindead thotty, but she's also you're daughter braindead thotty. diamonds for weeks from that rule34 goldrush.
This is the crux of things. He's too stupid to understand the topic, so he spews normie shit all over the script. Stupid people will resonate with the normie-level concepts and will think "Huh, the game includes QUANTUM MECHANICS, which means it's smart, and I understood it! That means I'm a genius!" while smart people will follow everything and conclude "This makes no sense. This game is moronic". In response, the stupid people will say "You must be too stupid to follow it, unlike myself who did manage to follow the complexities of QUANTUM MECHANICS". BS:I is a reverse-IQ test.
I hate bioshock infinite from the bottom of my soul and you are a gay for thinking it deserves an apology so I will now derail your horrible thread with based DSP . Eat shit annon
I won't, this game is the pinnacle example of everything that was wrong with this medium back in early 2010's, and the cancerous growth this game had sewn into the wound is still prevailing in western AAA games to this day.
Bioshock 2 was the best Bioshock, had the best gameplay and the best narrative, also had the best Daddy x Child dynamics than Infinite years prior. Also the way it inteligentlly shits on postmodern Marxism was kino.
You're absolutely wrong about the narrative but you're right about the daughter father dynamic but even then I think one managed to do that more properly.
except it isn't Bioshock was praised for its design. so much so that the sequel that people jerk off on this board literally copied the entire thing and outlets at the time condemned it for being too much of a retread of the first game. BioShock is unique in its design and you are legitimately a brain dead zoomer if you don't recognize that. It's even more obvious considering you said it was a pinnacle of 7th gen cancerous design. You have absolutely no idea the kind of games that came out around that time if you think that
11 months ago
Anonymous
>except it isn't Bioshock was praised for its design.
English. >BioShock is unique in its design and you are legitimately a brain dead zoomer if you don't recognize that. It's even more obvious considering you said it was a pinnacle of 7th gen cancerous design.
Epitome. Also, it is posterchild of 7th "experiences". The controlling, insulting, and braindead curated gameplay experience.
11 months ago
Anonymous
The English was fine. Uncharted would be more of an example of what you're talking about so far as 7th gen experiences. games that prioritize the cutscenes and aesthetic look over gameplay and substance. Uncharted's gameplay requires no thought or effort and is extremely braindead and repetitive. BioShock is probably A little more console friendly than its predecessors but it is in no way a braindead or insulting curated "experience"
11 months ago
Anonymous
>The English was fine.
It wasn't. >Uncharted would be more of an example of what you're talking about so far as 7th gen experiences. games that prioritize the cutscenes and aesthetic look over gameplay and substance.
Cutscenes being overused was thing since the PS2 and before that if you count FMV games. At least, you could skip cutscenes. 7th Gen also popularized the barely interactable not-cutscenes.
11 months ago
Anonymous
it was, cope.
It's not about them being overused, it's about them being used to center the experience over the substance and gameplay. The Last of Us is actually the epitome of that problem. also way to brush off everything else that was said that btfo your point
11 months ago
Anonymous
>it was, cope.
ESL. >It's not about them being overused, it's about them being used to center the experience over the substance and gameplay.
Just skip it. If it is shit, it is shit. >The Last of Us is actually the epitome of that problem.
Which came late in the PS3 life cycle and which it borrows the "experience" design philosophy from Bioshock. Fake ammo scarcity is only meant to make everyone's experience "equal". Low ammo capacity but plenty of ammo lying around ruins the point of the System Shock's scavenging system. >also way to brush off everything else that was said that btfo your point
Your first argument was it was heavily praised. A defining trait of Cancer is how it spreads.
Bioshock Infinite is a natural evolution of the shitty design philosophy of Bioshock.
11 months ago
Anonymous
not esl. It's not my fault you're dyslexic
that's not the point moron, you still have to go back to shallow gameplay.
It borrows it from uncharted you dumbass. It's literally made by the same developer. Naughty Dog was instrumental in creating the "experience" game. Uncharted and TLOU were the blueprints and games at the time reflected it. Bioshock 1 gives you extreme amounts of autonomy and is minimal in regards to taking control away from you in order to set an experience. It uses interactive storytelling, visuals, and audio logs to tell its story. The experience is completely natural and goes at the pace of the player. The same cannot be said for the latter two.Bioshock 1 is an FPS first. The ammo distribution was perfectly fine. It wasn't trying to rip off the scavenging system. The only thing that scavenging does in the original Bioshock is supply you with Eve and health.
I'm highlighting how it was praised because it was praised for the exact opposite reasons that you're accusing it of. You would not reasonably be able to find a through line starting from BioShock to the games like Uncharted and the last of us. those were not only bigger industry shakers and more critically acclaimed but the amount of copycatting of those games is extremely plentiful in comparison to the amount of games that copied BioShock. Your last comment is even more moronic because Bioshock Infinite and Bioshock 1 are extremely different in regards to design philosophy.
You're blatantly talking out of your ass.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Stay mad.
Bioshock is consolized garbage for the mentally stunted. The "would you kindly" twist works because the game treats you like narratively and gameplay-wise. Bioshock popularized the concept of caring about "ludonarrative dissonance" which could be a valid criticism but it leads to the control freak design. Ken Levine cuts so much content and he is so proud of wasting so much fricking dev time.
11 months ago
Anonymous
I'm not mad, this shit is easy for me because I know you have no idea what you're talking about. You're just trying to speak on an era that you literally have no context for.
It's streamlined sure but it's in no way trivial garbage or creatively bankrupt in regards to design philosophy as much as you want to assert that it is. It's not trying to be system shock it's trying to be an engaging FPS with a good narrative. what control freak design exactly? also you're pivoting. The ludonarrative dissonance criticism has no relation to the alleged problem of the design philosophy of the game. The game doesn't bend over backwards in design to make it work. The twist works because it's creative and it was a new more amplified take on it >his control freak design
He's literally the spearhead of the game. >it popularized the experience game
If we're agreeing on what an experience game is which is something akin to Uncharted and the last of us then no it didn't. If you're talking about it having the avant-garde twist playing into the monotonous "gameplay experience" then you'd also be wrong because games have been doing that kind of thing since the PS2 era. >it popularized the concept of caring about "ludonarrative dissonance"
Silent Hill 2 is almost all metaphor and subtext and plays with that concept more. It was something in the PS2 era.
It's also not a valid criticism, unless it is handled poorly which it isn't.
so far you haven't made any good case to why BioShock is responsible for the cancer that you speak of.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>It's streamlined sure but
Everything after that is cope.
11 months ago
Anonymous
your entire sentence is a cope. You were fine posting your paragraph replies to me until I systemically tore down every single dumb shit argument you had and now you have literally nothing else to say because you know how fricking stupid you are.
11 months ago
Anonymous
You didn't understand the words that you typed up so why bother dissenting it.
11 months ago
Anonymous
I understand them perfectly. You can point out any section and I can easily and coherently elaborate on it further.
also >dissenting it.
You mean dissecting it. If you're going to throw terms like ESL around make sure your grammar is on point. You fricked up in the last paragraph too but I didn't call it out because it's not relevant.
If you're going to try to act pretentiously smart at least pick a safe opinion that isn't easily able to be scrutinized by people who know what they're talking about.
11 months ago
Anonymous
also funny how you now came to this conclusion after multiple back and forths even 20 to 30 minutes after I replied to you. You clearly wanted to talk because you thought you were hot shit. Now you realize you're just a cold a turd in the rain.
Saying
I'm not mad, this shit is easy for me because I know you have no idea what you're talking about. You're just trying to speak on an era that you literally have no context for.
It's streamlined sure but it's in no way trivial garbage or creatively bankrupt in regards to design philosophy as much as you want to assert that it is. It's not trying to be system shock it's trying to be an engaging FPS with a good narrative. what control freak design exactly? also you're pivoting. The ludonarrative dissonance criticism has no relation to the alleged problem of the design philosophy of the game. The game doesn't bend over backwards in design to make it work. The twist works because it's creative and it was a new more amplified take on it >his control freak design
He's literally the spearhead of the game. >it popularized the experience game
If we're agreeing on what an experience game is which is something akin to Uncharted and the last of us then no it didn't. If you're talking about it having the avant-garde twist playing into the monotonous "gameplay experience" then you'd also be wrong because games have been doing that kind of thing since the PS2 era. >it popularized the concept of caring about "ludonarrative dissonance"
Silent Hill 2 is almost all metaphor and subtext and plays with that concept more. It was something in the PS2 era.
It's also not a valid criticism, unless it is handled poorly which it isn't.
so far you haven't made any good case to why BioShock is responsible for the cancer that you speak of.
>his control freak design >He's literally the spearhead of the game.
misses the point. Ken is trying to control the players not the devs. He doesn't give a shit about the devs at all. Thus the game keeps cutting content because the players won't play the way that he wants. The choices are in BS1 were so painfully slanted on one side. In Infinite, it doesn't even fricking matter.
11 months ago
Anonymous
He's doing both. He was the creative lead of the series as was Todd to Elder Scrolls. He quite clearly gives/gave a shit about the devs since he guided them through 1 & Infinite and even has some of his old crew for the new Judas game he's making. If there's any cut content in regards to 1 I guarantee it was for your average reasons not because the players would circumvent it but even if that was true it would be his right as he is the lead designer. The choices in 1 are irrelevant. You never had a choice as you are blindly following the regular beats of the game as you typically would which is why the twist works the way it does.
This also has nothing to do with his criticism from earlier about how this makes BioShock an "experience game" if we're running on the established meaning that we both set. The argument that he's seemingly putting forth of Levine possibly being a control freak which somehow contributed to the "experience game" cancer he's talking about is just as reductive. Hideo Kojima was also a control freak similar to Levine but he probably wouldn't blame MGS for any of the problems we saw come down the line
11 months ago
Anonymous
>This also has nothing to do with his criticism from earlier about how this makes BioShock an "experience game"
"Experience" meaning heavily curated gameplay like a metaphorical Demiurge who hates freewill.
>Hideo Kojima was also a control freak similar to Levine but he probably wouldn't blame MGS for any of the problems we saw come down the line
Cutscene skipped. Besides, MGS doesn't reward bad players.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Yeah I know what he meant. A heavily curated experience. A game that takes reign most of the time and is more obsessed with itself than the player. Where the gameplay takes a backseat to the visuals, story etc. Games like the ones Naughty Dog are known for. Something like the Uncharted series, which had its first installment come out in 2007, the same year as BioShock. In fact it came out 2 months after it. Which is probably what most games copied since it was extremely popular and is more than likely responsible for the cancer he laid out. >a metaphorical Demiurge who hates free will
that sounds like a design philosophy a lot closer to Uncharted than BioShock.
Again cutscenes are not the only thing that makes these kinds of games what they are. You're ignoring literally everything else that makes up these kinds of games. >MGS doesn't reward bad players
lol. Also how does BioShock do so and even if it does how does that add into the problem of "experience games"?
11 months ago
Anonymous
>that sounds like a design philosophy a lot closer to Uncharted than BioShock.
Never played Uncharted. Bioshock came out first. Bioshock started the "ludonarrative dissonance" trend. Also, baby's first philosophy lesson the game. Critics love it and lately started the trend of reviewer friendly titles.
>lol. Also how does BioShock do so and even if it does how does that add into the problem of "experience games"?
It is a shallow shooter pretending not to be one. Playing it somewhat like a System Shock sequel will hurt your experience. The game explictly tells you to use the lightning magic on enemies standing on the water instead of letting you figure it out.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Bioshock literally came out two months before Uncharted and the shit you're describing is literally Uncharted. You can't even say it isn't or blame BioShock entirely since you lack any context in regards to Uncharted >Bioshock started the ludonarrative dissonance trend
no the frick it didn't. Games in the PS2 era played with that theme before BioShock did. There wasn't an uptick in games prioritizing the meta narrative either, and if you're gonna blame it's focus on the theme for the problem of the overabundance of "experience games" then you'd be just as wrong since that would mean every game that narratively focuses on a theme is at fault because the game is designed around it (which isn't even a problem so long as the gameplay isn't a last priority). >baby's first philosophy game
so what >critics loved it and started the trend of review friendly titles
holy shit you're fricking moronic. >it's a shallow shooter pretending not to be one
how? the gunplay and plasmid system is intricately tied together and all the mechanics revolve around improving them. >the game tells you the obvious instead of you figuring out
wow what a crime. that's totally never been done before BioShock, yep.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>Games in the PS2 era played with that theme before BioShock did.
Just to be clear, what theme are you talking about?
11 months ago
Anonymous
the "ludonarrative dissonance" trend. LD: when the gameplay and the story is at odds. A character can is a pacifist but the gameplay is extremely violent. It's not necessarily a bad thing and oftentimes it's intentionally done to explore the grander themes or reinforce it. Games like Far Cry 3 or Spec Ops: The Line. The trend didn't start with BioShock though. It existed and was a thing in games even in acclaimed ones like Silent Hill, MGS, ect. The only difference is that Bioshock played with it front and center using it as a tool to flesh out the idea of free will.
11 months ago
Anonymous
That really isn't a theme, Also, my point was it started a trend of restricting the player for the sake of narrative. The choices in Bioshock Infinite don't matter because it would hurt Ken's story about israeli oppression.
11 months ago
Anonymous
It can be used as one. Games that intentionally put the story/gameplay at odds like Far Cry are doing so intentionally. >also my point was it started the trend of restricting the player for the narrative
and once again I argue that it doesn't since you have complete agency in regards to the gameplay and the game itself never forces you through its own puppet show. That's something the Uncharted and The Last of Us Does. However you haven't even played Uncharted so you are narrowly limited in your scope of what actually contributed to the problem you're talking about. It can't start/perpetuate/encourage a trend it never began.
The choices in Infinite don't matter because it's not supposed to. Constants and Variables are the things that make up the rules in Infinite's multiverse conundrum. There's always a lighthouse, always a Comstock. Even if Booker kills Comstock, he's part of an endless cycle, which is why he has to die at the conception of his rebirth.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>the gunplay and plasmid system is intricately tied together >all the mechanics revolve around improving them.
hilariously wrong, but you are also completely missing the point that he said that the is a shooter but pretends that it is more. if you want to adress his point you have to have a go at defending bioshock as being something more than a mediocre shooter, and that does not mean you claiming that it is a GREAT shooter.
11 months ago
Anonymous
It's not wrong. You kill big daddies and save/kill little sisters in order to gain Adam which are used to upgrade your plasmids
There's also weapon upgrade stations to improve the quality of your guns. It's literally all focused around these two things. >pretends to be more
how? by having a story? he never even says how it's doing so. the game isn't trying to ham-fist extra shit, it knows it's a shooter. It's a good shooter with a nice story. that's it at its barest level.
>the epitome of 7th Gen cancerous design
u fokin wot m8
he thinks BioShock is responsible for the "movie game". Shit like The Last of Us and Nu-Tomb Raider or the new God of Wars.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>the gunplay and plasmid system is intricately tied together and all the mechanics revolve around improving them
They are really half assed, bioshock 2 did such a better job at this.
11 months ago
Anonymous
also funny how you now came to this conclusion after multiple back and forths even 20 to 30 minutes after I replied to you. You clearly wanted to talk because you thought you were hot shit. Now you realize you're just a cold a turd in the rain.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>The "would you kindly" twist works because the game treats you like narratively and gameplay-wise. Bioshock popularized the concept of caring about "ludonarrative dissonance" which could be a valid criticism but it leads to the control freak design
Wrong, wrong, fricking wrong. This is some shit that people just say. The game NEVER tried to make a meta comment on players doing what they're told. The twist is simply possible to do precisely because that's how games are structured
11 months ago
Anonymous
as a matter of fact I guarantee you cannot thoroughly lay out why BioShock 1 is bad in regards to design philosophy and then be able to accurately pinpoint that to the cancerous experience games like The Last of Us or Uncharted.
why do people like you get filtered and don't understand what "movie games" are? Uncharted is the game that really started the 7th gen cancerous design you talk about that's still going strong today (gow ragnarok)
11 months ago
Anonymous
That's the entire point I've been laying out but they're trying to find ways to stretch out the blame to BioShock of all games based on really bullshit broken logic and reasoning
11 months ago
Anonymous
>why do people like you get filtered and don't understand what "movie games" are? Uncharted is the game that really started the 7th gen cancerous design you talk about that's still going strong today (gow ragnarok)
More people praise Bioshock more than anything.
11 months ago
Anonymous
I doubt that's true t b h. Bioshock is praised for its narrative, design, creativity ect. Still doesn't make it guilty of being a movie game when it objectively isn't.
11 months ago
Anonymous
are you actually honest to god moronic? What does "being praised" have to do with being a movie game or not?
11 months ago
Anonymous
>get heavily uncritically praised >a cancerous new term get coined based on its design
vs >a PS3 exclusive >Tomb Raider with dicks
Basic b***h philosophy on top of bad to mediocre gameplay. With the "game are art" mindset, gameplay just became another tool in service of the story.
11 months ago
Anonymous
the term wasn't new and the movie games you're complaining about design wise follow Uncharted. Actually compare and contrast the similarities between Uncharted and something like GOW:R. Games that focus or place an importance on narrative does not a movie game make. >PS3 exclusive
a wildly popular PS3 exclusive that made Naughty Dog what it is today. >Tomb Raider with dicks
They're designed completely differently.
The gameplay isn't bad, you haven't given a reason as to why it is, and the philosophy being basic has nothing to do with whether it's a movie game or not. >with the "games are art" mindset, gameplay was just another tool to in service of the story.
Not in the ways you're describing.
Bioshock doesn't cripple its gameplay or restrict you to tell its story. Gameplay in Bioshock is a top priority which is why most of it is told through audio logs or over the intercom thing. It's also not designed to go that inherently either. TLOU and Uncharted do so by being extremely linear with minimal amounts of gameplay fluidity that shove cutscenes at you rather than letting it unfold naturally.
I know you're not responding cause you can't prove me wrong but you need to be corrected regardless.
11 months ago
Anonymous
also the "games are art" mindset was also a thing before BioShock. This was an argument in the late 90s. For some autistic reason you think BioShock was the crux of all of this when it couldn't be further from the truth.
11 months ago
Anonymous
No, but some massive homosexuals were parading it around to try and dunk on a dead man.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Infinite sure but that's not BioShock 1s fault. honestly I think the most mainstream attention that that argument has gotten stems from the last of us.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Oh I thought you were talking about infinite, sorry that's on me. Maybe that moron thinks Bioshock invented the term immersive sim or some bullshit.
11 months ago
Anonymous
what term did bioshock coin? what games even copied its design philosophy? i can't recall many fps from that time trying to copy it
2’s main narrative is worse than 1 and Lamb was kind of a weak villain, bug I prefer its smaller stories tied to the individual areas, especially Gil Alexander. The only area bosses I found interestinv in 1 were the surgeon (who’s barely in it and dies quickly, and Sander Cohen.
>BaS1 Liz has seen behind all the doors. >Proceeded to enact the most moronic plan possible to spite 1 specific Bookerstock >Gets bodied by a Daddy despite being able to leave at any point >BaS2 Liz manages to luck into the Master Plan to bring Fontaine down in the most torturous way possible
Ken Levine recently revealed on Colin Moriarty's podcast that he tried to quit half way through the development of Bioshock Infinite, but was coaxed into staying after being warned that it would kill his career if he left.
The average mkultra victim is orders of magnitude less mentally ill than you are. They all also most likely managed to get laid at some point in their lives. That's two for two against you
i didnt HATE this game but on hard enemies can be such bullet sponges that i had to stand around with no ammo waiting for elizabeth to be able to spawn me another ammo spot
I never understood why Tenenbaum started helping Jack half way through the game if you killed all those little sisters. I even restarted my 360 because I thought the game was glitched. Nope, the story was just that fricking dumb and nonsensical. Ken learned nothing with Bioshock infinite. Amazing aesthetic and art style though. Obviously
I honestly loved the game, I love all 3 in truth, but yeah I was/am one of the few who actually thought Infinite was a good game, I had a ton of fun in the alternate 1910’s-1920’s era.
You’re not wrong, I just really enjoyed the setting, I feel as if the game had just been marketed better as it’s own thing, maybe it would be remembered better then it is. Either way, I was not surprised to see it set in the BS universe, even all the way back in, what 07? It seemed to me as if the team behind the first game wanted to make new settings in the series “poking fun”, at the top political systems shown in the game, namely communism, capitalism, libertarianism, theocracy (we saw this on the theme park ride), and while BS 1/2 poked holes into libertarianism, BS:I did so with nationalism + theocracy (basically Woodrow Wilson’s KKK America but in the sky).
I was looking forward to their take on communism, but it seems atomic heart stole that thunder.
I was completely shocked to find out that the 7th Cavalry/Wounded Knee shit has been massively revised by psychopathic liberals. They were heroes and the injuns were actual cultist monsters.
One of the biggest dissapointments of the last decade. >linear corridor shooter >2 weapon limit >regen health >no hacking >no levels with more than 2 floors >no redoing old areas for sidequests >no interesting weapons >shitty escort quest where enemies can't even interact with the escortee
>Upgrade crows >Enemies killed while attacked by crows create nests on the ground >Regular enemies attacked by crows require 1 headshot with carbine to kill >Use crows+carbine throughout the game because the weapon upgrade system discourages you from switching weapons, especially in the latter parts with Vox weapons >Join Vox rebellion >First time having npc allies, cool >They immediately step on crow nests as soon as they join the fight arena >They turn hostile >Now have twice as many enemies to fight >Never get allies to actually assist a fight
Boy, I really hope somebody got fired for that blunder.
I hate games that try to get smug and meta. >You have no control and must do what the game says haha, you have no real choice!
I have the ability to choose not to play the game any further.
With Bioshock infinite I played all the way through despite the very mediocre gameplay even though I was hating it more and more, but quit during the ending sequence in the office because I was so tired of the stupid preachiness of it.
With spec ops the line I quit on chapter… 10 or 11? After the ship graveyard. It wasn’t even the cliche preachiness on that one, the gameplay was just too bad so I didn’t want to play it any longer.
Luckily I didn’t pay for either one and I know to just avoid shitty games like these in the future.
I've always felt like this game would've been ten times better if they just decided to stick with the original premise of the game.
They wrote themselves into 10 different corners with all that multiverse hopping madness. I wish the game stayed a simple "Reach the city, find the girl, escape, done". I also hated only carrying 2 weapons, almost completely defeats the purpose of weapon upgrades
>Elizabeth is locked in her room >can literally tear the fabric of reality at will and walk to another dimension and be free forever >doesn't because reasons
Holy shit the story is absolutely fricking moronic, also Troy Baker is a turbo homosexual.
It was a pretty boring game overall (especially compared to Bioshock 1) but the ending was really good so game ended up leaving me with a good impression despite slogging through it back during release. Good endings can dramatically affect the way we ultimately view the quality of a work, and B:I is one of the few works that had an ending that was greater than the sum of its parts.
>B:I is one of the few works that had an ending that was greater than the sum of its parts.
What? Both Bioshock 1 and 2 had good satisfying endings, although Fontaine wasn't that great of a fight mechanically. Infinite's ending was a cluster frick of time travel nonsense going on and on and on.
This abomination was a massive letdown and the story was so frustrating and infuriating it made me stop gaming for all the year and made me pick up painting, so if anything thanks for that.
Art direction and OST was good. It stripped out half of the features of previous installments which is laughable as Bioshock 1 was an already stripped down version of System Shock 2. The story was a clusterfrick that had no real direction and it just did whatever it felt like doing before pulling that dumbfrick ending out of nowhere. People only considered the story good because it tossed enough prose at people to make them feel smart.
Playing SS2 after Bioshock 1 made it obvious how much of a soft remake Bioshock is of SS2. The twist of both are so similar it's unbelievable. Only difference is in SS2 is happens about a third of the way in while Bioshock has it towards the end and it has a meta aspect in it.
most actually engaged critics who were seasoned at the time that Bioshock wanted came out made the obvious and noticeable comparisons between system shock 2 and BioShock 1 however they correctly gave Bioshock 1 its merits for being a somewhat refreshing and organic retake on the shock series which I I think it's perfectly applicable
Actually it was oposite. This game was first time I saw honeymoon period.
It was insane how people loved it. Then sudendly it was joke of the game
plenty of people still love this game. It's just over here that it's not really well liked. and amongst more I guess you would say "intellectual gamers". The kinds that watch video essays to inform them of their opinion.
I don't dislike Bioshock, infact I think it's good. I even knew it was similar to SS2 but it wasn't until when I played SS2 I saw just how similar it was. As I said, soft remake.
>Only difference is in SS2 is happens about a third of the way in while Bioshock has it towards the end
It happens at the halfway point in Bioshock, it just feels like the end because how quickly the game goes downhill after.
Another big difference is that in ss2 you need to continue working with Shodan anyway after the twist, while in bs1 Fontaine immediately becomes your enemy and antagonist after the official big reveal. >it has a meta aspect in it.
There is actually a bit of that subtly in SS2 as well. Remember you were augmented in the tube and woken up by Shodan in the beginning, which is meant to cause questions on just how much she did to change or control you without you knowing though over the course of the game you find you have more control than she thinks, to her consternation.
I think Bioshock flubbed the Will You kindly reveal cutscene a bit. In the part where Andrew says to Run and then Stop, he doesn’t say would you kindly before saying stop and yet jack still freezes immediately.
I liked SS2 forcing you to be an unwilling ally to Shodan after the reveal. It built up suspense as it went because you know for a fact that once the many is dealt with Shodan is going to dispose of you as you no longer have any use to her. Shame the final parts of SS2 sucked because a decent final boss would've made turning the tables in her real satisfying, show her who's really in charge here!
>Only difference is in SS2 is happens about a third of the way in while Bioshock has it towards the end
It happens at the halfway point in Bioshock, it just feels like the end because how quickly the game goes downhill after.
Another big difference is that in ss2 you need to continue working with Shodan anyway after the twist, while in bs1 Fontaine immediately becomes your enemy and antagonist after the official big reveal. >it has a meta aspect in it.
There is actually a bit of that subtly in SS2 as well. Remember you were augmented in the tube and woken up by Shodan in the beginning, which is meant to cause questions on just how much she did to change or control you without you knowing though over the course of the game you find you have more control than she thinks, to her consternation.
I think Bioshock flubbed the Will You kindly reveal cutscene a bit. In the part where Andrew says to Run and then Stop, he doesn’t say would you kindly before saying stop and yet jack still freezes immediately.
This guy made multiple video spanning over 4 hourd about how fricking israeli this game. It's unbelievable the amount of subversion and israeli lies we intake daily. https://odysee.com/@americankrogan:3/BioShock-The-Hatred-Chapter-1:1
You first Ken
>why didn't booker and elizabeth realize they wouldn't be able to carry hundreds of tons of machinery out of the basement of a warehouse on their own?
Why do they think that skipping to a timeline where the machinery is where they need it to be actually brings the machinery to the person in the original timeline who requested them moved?
Why does Booker think his deal with original-Fitzroy still valid after jumping timelines like 5 times already, and reaching a timeline where he's a dead resistance hero who lead Fitzroy, and she voices her explicit relation toward her version of Booker and her sheer disbelief at a Booker standing before her alive?
I swear, if the game wasn't in first person, you would have seen Booker's brain leak out of his ears from how moronic he is.
Apologise for what?
I swear this was the last Western game that had an attractive female character. Around 2014 they started making b***hes ugly as sin. Now you gotta play Eastern European and jap games to see good women.
She looks like she farts dog cum.
Time may heal all wounds, but it does not make bad games good
It's not a bad game though.
literally everything is explained in game
not appreciating how good this game is
Shut up Ken
>not appreciating how good this game is
Oh I see. Well, I've always loved it so no apology from me.
Have a Liz and a bump, anon.
fricking based thank you anon
elaborate.
cope
I get not liking Infinite but people have to stop with the meme that two is somehow better than one because the game plays better when everything is literally worse If not just blatantly repeated
I really hate anons like you. You don't ever actually say anything, you deflect any criticism of a game with smug appraisal and you usually post cringy pictures of whatever waifu you're currently whacking to, usually to bait other anons into jacking off with you. You're the most boring kind of poster and I wish you would just frick off.
I posted a picture because the other anonymous internet user replied with a picture of Elizabeth to me. I'll gladly debate the merit to the game but nobody is giving me anything to attack except the one moron who somehow missed the point of the subtext of the game.
>elaborate.
no, you deconstruct what he said, since it was you who claimed that the writing is adequate.
>literally everything is explained in game
Some of the stuff on that list is explained, but most of it is not
The entire Finkton chapter is some of the worst writing that's ever been in a video game
The ending is still worse just because not only did it kill the more interesting plot but it also cannot be true based on the information it gives
I replayed it last year and it’s fricking terrible.
>not appreciating how good this game is
It's very hard to do if you've played the previous games. So much gameplay was stripped. Far too streamlines, far too linear. The story is up its own ass and is nowhere near as good as what 1 put out
It's boring and the story makes no sense
Actually it was oposite. This game was first time I saw honeymoon period.
It was insane how people loved it. Then sudendly it was joke of the game
2>1>>>>>>>>>>>
Minerva's Den = 2 > 1 >>>>> Inf = BaS1 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BaS2
It feels like you're baiting with opinions like that. Infinite has great atmosphere, and the gunplay is fun for a limited time, until around the lodge and statue areas. Handymen aren't fun to fight, and the constant reality jumping in Finkton is the most asinine plot in the series, which causes a lot of players who were still immersed in its shit story to just not give a frick, since why does it matter?
Just Scooby Doo your ass into a new reality where Booker became a hero so Fitsroy can kill you for no raisin, instead of jumping into a much more feasible reality where you just have a fricking airship or didn't lose the First Lady. I love how despite Elizabeth's faux altruism, she really doesn't give two fricking shits about Chen or his family.
exaggeration aside I do enjoy infinite for some of the reasons you listed I understand that mechanically the game is rough and the story has some Swiss cheese holes in it but I think it executes The way it tells the story and the ambition in a remarkable way. Handyman suck I agree. The reality jumping was handled well imo. She can't control the rules of the reality they go to
no not still. it's their own fault, not the games. You have no idea of the political persuasion the writers had and politics exists on a spectrum. Your conclusion requires miles wide stretching
>You have no idea of the political persuasion the writers had
The main guy is israeli, anon...
that doesn't mean shit. You know how many right wing pundits are israeli? It's probably safe to say that the writers are lefties but they're probably the most normal lefties considering how well they handled the racism handle. Hacks would've made them overly sympathetic or try to justify their brutality but they didn't.
I think that the walking segments at the very beginning and Battleship Bay were some of the more enjoyable bits, since you could see Colombia as a living city instead of a target range. They almost had something like it in the city area of Soldier's Field, but fricked that up, too.
True.
i'm sorry i bothered to play this pretentious, unsatisfying, clusterfrick
i think this is the best game in the trilogy, always did - always will
Oh man another Bioshock game! I wonder what kind of insightful political commentary it will ha-
>RACISM BAD!!
Uh... that came out of nowhere. I'm sure the REAL commentary will start soon.
>ooga booga bix nood muhfugga white boi yous betta join us vox populi and help destroy sky-merica! it be racist and sheeeeiiit!!
Sad.
>I have no rebuttal
The first game is literally laissez-faire capitalism is bad you fricking moron. If you're going to try to come at it with the political angle all the games are political. and not in the pretentious in your face kind of way that zoomers like to say but like it was intentional.
gay
You are too moronic to reply to my post. You, your wife, her boyfriend and her son are now BARRED from replying to my posts until you can learn to read.
You somehow fumbled the subtext of Bioshock Infinite degrading it into your strawman version of it. You attacked the racism bad angle implying that it is somehow a trivial political angle to use saying it's not insightful and then afterwards missed the entire point of the vox populi and the blatant hypocrisy they display.
>he doesn't know that it's common in political fiction to give a person or group a 'bad' trait while reminding everyone they're still 'good' or 'right' (had no choice!) in order to trick normies and deflect criticism
Damn, maybe you need to take a class on this or read a book or something.
except in the base game they're not redeemed in any sort of way. The game doesn't remind you that they're good or justified their actions are explainable but the game's obvious intention is to show that the line was crossed a long time ago and that slaughtering civilians is completely unjustified regardless of the discrimination against them. The game isn't doing what you're saying it's doing. If any player plays the game and somehow takes away The message that with the vox populi did was wrong but they had no choice and I understand and ergo they were somewhat justified then they're the midwit not the game.
Many people think Vox Populi were justified. Yes they're moronic lefties, but still. The game was written by people who have the same politics. It's not difficult to believe they intended for those people to take away that message. Vox Populi did-du sumfin but they had no choice, they're oppressed, racism is the worst thing in the world etc.
>What does this even mean?
It's kind of like how a TV show might show a israelite being neurotic and a bit of an butthole, but then will remind you he's a mega genius and a good guy really, he just gets oppressed too much by holocausts and shit. Now you can't say israelites are gary-stu's because they have a mild negative trait.
>Doesn't mean King Louis didn't still have it coming.
See? This is it, the thing! "Yeah maybe they should have done it a bit differently, but ultimately they're 'still right'!
What does this even mean? The game, up until BaS which everyone agrees is moronic, stuffs it in your face that the Vox are wrong and have gone full moron. The same way the French Revolution was wrong and everyone went full moron. Doesn't mean King Louis didn't still have it coming. And so did Comstock and Fink.
>In spite of how badly the racism bad homosexualry was implemented into Columbia, at least it didn't make the Vox out to be gud bois who dindu nuffin and showed them to be moronic thugs with no end goal beyond destroying the city
>DLC 2 literally reveals that Fitzroy was actually pretended to be moronic solely because Tweedledee and Tweedledum needed to speed up Elizabeth's character development
To be fair, NOTHING survived Burial at Sea's moronation
>the entire plot of Bioshock 1 was set in motion by Elizabeth
>Elizabeth was the one who linked the Big Daddies with their Little Sisters. Which ended up being the wrong Big Daddy because the first Big Daddies to be linked to the Little Sisters were the Alpha series Big Daddies, not the Bouncers
for me it's how the ending of the game is explicitly "let's prune the entire 'comstock' branch from the multiverse" and yet there are still comstocks around she goes to personally murder. Also i never understood why elizabeth is so autistically obsessed over that one specific little sister she ends up dying for or why she antagonized ryan when she had no reason to and all reasons to seek help against fontaine
>Which ended up being the wrong Big Daddy because the first Big Daddies to be linked to the Little Sisters were the Alpha series Big Daddies, not the Bouncers
Bioshock 2 is not canon
How does fitzroy not being crazy make the vox un general any less crazy. The game lets you kill most of them
Because she's the face of the Vox. She's the character we view them through. She's the reason why they do what they do
my dick got so hard when that pinky got cut off and you realize that elizabith isnt just some hot braindead thotty, but she's also you're daughter braindead thotty. diamonds for weeks from that rule34 goldrush.
This is the crux of things. He's too stupid to understand the topic, so he spews normie shit all over the script. Stupid people will resonate with the normie-level concepts and will think "Huh, the game includes QUANTUM MECHANICS, which means it's smart, and I understood it! That means I'm a genius!" while smart people will follow everything and conclude "This makes no sense. This game is moronic". In response, the stupid people will say "You must be too stupid to follow it, unlike myself who did manage to follow the complexities of QUANTUM MECHANICS". BS:I is a reverse-IQ test.
No, Infinite was ass. Play 1 and 2 instead.
is there anything that elizabeth hasn't fricked
>those comments
Thank you for all the porn, Elizabeth Coomstock
I shouldn't have watched part 2. I never played Burial at Sea because I was sick of Infinite and now I know how stupid that was.
>and now I know how stupid that was.
I meant how stupid Burial at Sea was, not not playing it. Not playing it was a smart move.
Interesting videos, thanks for sharing!
I hate bioshock infinite from the bottom of my soul and you are a gay for thinking it deserves an apology so I will now derail your horrible thread with based DSP . Eat shit annon
Bless you. Frick this pretentious piece of shit. The game, not DSP.
Every time I try to replay you, I always stop around the end of the first level because I always forget how boring you are.
I won't, this game is the pinnacle example of everything that was wrong with this medium back in early 2010's, and the cancerous growth this game had sewn into the wound is still prevailing in western AAA games to this day.
>this game is the pinnacle example of everything that was wrong with this medium back in early 2010's
Elaborate
God this game sucked butthole. It's the most generic 6/10 shooter ever, and it lasts fricking forever.
Elizabeth and robot George Washington were the only good parts of that game.
>THE LORD JUDGES
>I ACT
For what? It's not like a worse Bioshock game came out. It's dead, Jim.
Bioshock 2 was the best Bioshock, had the best gameplay and the best narrative, also had the best Daddy x Child dynamics than Infinite years prior. Also the way it inteligentlly shits on postmodern Marxism was kino.
You're absolutely wrong about the narrative but you're right about the daughter father dynamic but even then I think one managed to do that more properly.
Bioshock 1 was irredeemably shit.
only to a dumb frick zoomer.
>the epitome of 7th Gen cancerous design
>hurr durr only zoomers hate this moron simulator!
except it isn't Bioshock was praised for its design. so much so that the sequel that people jerk off on this board literally copied the entire thing and outlets at the time condemned it for being too much of a retread of the first game. BioShock is unique in its design and you are legitimately a brain dead zoomer if you don't recognize that. It's even more obvious considering you said it was a pinnacle of 7th gen cancerous design. You have absolutely no idea the kind of games that came out around that time if you think that
>except it isn't Bioshock was praised for its design.
English.
>BioShock is unique in its design and you are legitimately a brain dead zoomer if you don't recognize that. It's even more obvious considering you said it was a pinnacle of 7th gen cancerous design.
Epitome. Also, it is posterchild of 7th "experiences". The controlling, insulting, and braindead curated gameplay experience.
The English was fine. Uncharted would be more of an example of what you're talking about so far as 7th gen experiences. games that prioritize the cutscenes and aesthetic look over gameplay and substance. Uncharted's gameplay requires no thought or effort and is extremely braindead and repetitive. BioShock is probably A little more console friendly than its predecessors but it is in no way a braindead or insulting curated "experience"
>The English was fine.
It wasn't.
>Uncharted would be more of an example of what you're talking about so far as 7th gen experiences. games that prioritize the cutscenes and aesthetic look over gameplay and substance.
Cutscenes being overused was thing since the PS2 and before that if you count FMV games. At least, you could skip cutscenes. 7th Gen also popularized the barely interactable not-cutscenes.
it was, cope.
It's not about them being overused, it's about them being used to center the experience over the substance and gameplay. The Last of Us is actually the epitome of that problem. also way to brush off everything else that was said that btfo your point
>it was, cope.
ESL.
>It's not about them being overused, it's about them being used to center the experience over the substance and gameplay.
Just skip it. If it is shit, it is shit.
>The Last of Us is actually the epitome of that problem.
Which came late in the PS3 life cycle and which it borrows the "experience" design philosophy from Bioshock. Fake ammo scarcity is only meant to make everyone's experience "equal". Low ammo capacity but plenty of ammo lying around ruins the point of the System Shock's scavenging system.
>also way to brush off everything else that was said that btfo your point
Your first argument was it was heavily praised. A defining trait of Cancer is how it spreads.
Bioshock Infinite is a natural evolution of the shitty design philosophy of Bioshock.
not esl. It's not my fault you're dyslexic
that's not the point moron, you still have to go back to shallow gameplay.
It borrows it from uncharted you dumbass. It's literally made by the same developer. Naughty Dog was instrumental in creating the "experience" game. Uncharted and TLOU were the blueprints and games at the time reflected it. Bioshock 1 gives you extreme amounts of autonomy and is minimal in regards to taking control away from you in order to set an experience. It uses interactive storytelling, visuals, and audio logs to tell its story. The experience is completely natural and goes at the pace of the player. The same cannot be said for the latter two.Bioshock 1 is an FPS first. The ammo distribution was perfectly fine. It wasn't trying to rip off the scavenging system. The only thing that scavenging does in the original Bioshock is supply you with Eve and health.
I'm highlighting how it was praised because it was praised for the exact opposite reasons that you're accusing it of. You would not reasonably be able to find a through line starting from BioShock to the games like Uncharted and the last of us. those were not only bigger industry shakers and more critically acclaimed but the amount of copycatting of those games is extremely plentiful in comparison to the amount of games that copied BioShock. Your last comment is even more moronic because Bioshock Infinite and Bioshock 1 are extremely different in regards to design philosophy.
You're blatantly talking out of your ass.
Stay mad.
Bioshock is consolized garbage for the mentally stunted. The "would you kindly" twist works because the game treats you like narratively and gameplay-wise. Bioshock popularized the concept of caring about "ludonarrative dissonance" which could be a valid criticism but it leads to the control freak design. Ken Levine cuts so much content and he is so proud of wasting so much fricking dev time.
I'm not mad, this shit is easy for me because I know you have no idea what you're talking about. You're just trying to speak on an era that you literally have no context for.
It's streamlined sure but it's in no way trivial garbage or creatively bankrupt in regards to design philosophy as much as you want to assert that it is. It's not trying to be system shock it's trying to be an engaging FPS with a good narrative. what control freak design exactly? also you're pivoting. The ludonarrative dissonance criticism has no relation to the alleged problem of the design philosophy of the game. The game doesn't bend over backwards in design to make it work. The twist works because it's creative and it was a new more amplified take on it
>his control freak design
He's literally the spearhead of the game.
>it popularized the experience game
If we're agreeing on what an experience game is which is something akin to Uncharted and the last of us then no it didn't. If you're talking about it having the avant-garde twist playing into the monotonous "gameplay experience" then you'd also be wrong because games have been doing that kind of thing since the PS2 era.
>it popularized the concept of caring about "ludonarrative dissonance"
Silent Hill 2 is almost all metaphor and subtext and plays with that concept more. It was something in the PS2 era.
It's also not a valid criticism, unless it is handled poorly which it isn't.
so far you haven't made any good case to why BioShock is responsible for the cancer that you speak of.
>It's streamlined sure but
Everything after that is cope.
your entire sentence is a cope. You were fine posting your paragraph replies to me until I systemically tore down every single dumb shit argument you had and now you have literally nothing else to say because you know how fricking stupid you are.
You didn't understand the words that you typed up so why bother dissenting it.
I understand them perfectly. You can point out any section and I can easily and coherently elaborate on it further.
also
>dissenting it.
You mean dissecting it. If you're going to throw terms like ESL around make sure your grammar is on point. You fricked up in the last paragraph too but I didn't call it out because it's not relevant.
If you're going to try to act pretentiously smart at least pick a safe opinion that isn't easily able to be scrutinized by people who know what they're talking about.
Saying
>his control freak design
>He's literally the spearhead of the game.
misses the point. Ken is trying to control the players not the devs. He doesn't give a shit about the devs at all. Thus the game keeps cutting content because the players won't play the way that he wants. The choices are in BS1 were so painfully slanted on one side. In Infinite, it doesn't even fricking matter.
He's doing both. He was the creative lead of the series as was Todd to Elder Scrolls. He quite clearly gives/gave a shit about the devs since he guided them through 1 & Infinite and even has some of his old crew for the new Judas game he's making. If there's any cut content in regards to 1 I guarantee it was for your average reasons not because the players would circumvent it but even if that was true it would be his right as he is the lead designer. The choices in 1 are irrelevant. You never had a choice as you are blindly following the regular beats of the game as you typically would which is why the twist works the way it does.
This also has nothing to do with his criticism from earlier about how this makes BioShock an "experience game" if we're running on the established meaning that we both set. The argument that he's seemingly putting forth of Levine possibly being a control freak which somehow contributed to the "experience game" cancer he's talking about is just as reductive. Hideo Kojima was also a control freak similar to Levine but he probably wouldn't blame MGS for any of the problems we saw come down the line
>This also has nothing to do with his criticism from earlier about how this makes BioShock an "experience game"
"Experience" meaning heavily curated gameplay like a metaphorical Demiurge who hates freewill.
>Hideo Kojima was also a control freak similar to Levine but he probably wouldn't blame MGS for any of the problems we saw come down the line
Cutscene skipped. Besides, MGS doesn't reward bad players.
Yeah I know what he meant. A heavily curated experience. A game that takes reign most of the time and is more obsessed with itself than the player. Where the gameplay takes a backseat to the visuals, story etc. Games like the ones Naughty Dog are known for. Something like the Uncharted series, which had its first installment come out in 2007, the same year as BioShock. In fact it came out 2 months after it. Which is probably what most games copied since it was extremely popular and is more than likely responsible for the cancer he laid out.
>a metaphorical Demiurge who hates free will
that sounds like a design philosophy a lot closer to Uncharted than BioShock.
Again cutscenes are not the only thing that makes these kinds of games what they are. You're ignoring literally everything else that makes up these kinds of games.
>MGS doesn't reward bad players
lol. Also how does BioShock do so and even if it does how does that add into the problem of "experience games"?
>that sounds like a design philosophy a lot closer to Uncharted than BioShock.
Never played Uncharted. Bioshock came out first. Bioshock started the "ludonarrative dissonance" trend. Also, baby's first philosophy lesson the game. Critics love it and lately started the trend of reviewer friendly titles.
>lol. Also how does BioShock do so and even if it does how does that add into the problem of "experience games"?
It is a shallow shooter pretending not to be one. Playing it somewhat like a System Shock sequel will hurt your experience. The game explictly tells you to use the lightning magic on enemies standing on the water instead of letting you figure it out.
Bioshock literally came out two months before Uncharted and the shit you're describing is literally Uncharted. You can't even say it isn't or blame BioShock entirely since you lack any context in regards to Uncharted
>Bioshock started the ludonarrative dissonance trend
no the frick it didn't. Games in the PS2 era played with that theme before BioShock did. There wasn't an uptick in games prioritizing the meta narrative either, and if you're gonna blame it's focus on the theme for the problem of the overabundance of "experience games" then you'd be just as wrong since that would mean every game that narratively focuses on a theme is at fault because the game is designed around it (which isn't even a problem so long as the gameplay isn't a last priority).
>baby's first philosophy game
so what
>critics loved it and started the trend of review friendly titles
holy shit you're fricking moronic.
>it's a shallow shooter pretending not to be one
how? the gunplay and plasmid system is intricately tied together and all the mechanics revolve around improving them.
>the game tells you the obvious instead of you figuring out
wow what a crime. that's totally never been done before BioShock, yep.
>Games in the PS2 era played with that theme before BioShock did.
Just to be clear, what theme are you talking about?
the "ludonarrative dissonance" trend. LD: when the gameplay and the story is at odds. A character can is a pacifist but the gameplay is extremely violent. It's not necessarily a bad thing and oftentimes it's intentionally done to explore the grander themes or reinforce it. Games like Far Cry 3 or Spec Ops: The Line. The trend didn't start with BioShock though. It existed and was a thing in games even in acclaimed ones like Silent Hill, MGS, ect. The only difference is that Bioshock played with it front and center using it as a tool to flesh out the idea of free will.
That really isn't a theme, Also, my point was it started a trend of restricting the player for the sake of narrative. The choices in Bioshock Infinite don't matter because it would hurt Ken's story about israeli oppression.
It can be used as one. Games that intentionally put the story/gameplay at odds like Far Cry are doing so intentionally.
>also my point was it started the trend of restricting the player for the narrative
and once again I argue that it doesn't since you have complete agency in regards to the gameplay and the game itself never forces you through its own puppet show. That's something the Uncharted and The Last of Us Does. However you haven't even played Uncharted so you are narrowly limited in your scope of what actually contributed to the problem you're talking about. It can't start/perpetuate/encourage a trend it never began.
The choices in Infinite don't matter because it's not supposed to. Constants and Variables are the things that make up the rules in Infinite's multiverse conundrum. There's always a lighthouse, always a Comstock. Even if Booker kills Comstock, he's part of an endless cycle, which is why he has to die at the conception of his rebirth.
>the gunplay and plasmid system is intricately tied together
>all the mechanics revolve around improving them.
hilariously wrong, but you are also completely missing the point that he said that the is a shooter but pretends that it is more. if you want to adress his point you have to have a go at defending bioshock as being something more than a mediocre shooter, and that does not mean you claiming that it is a GREAT shooter.
It's not wrong. You kill big daddies and save/kill little sisters in order to gain Adam which are used to upgrade your plasmids
There's also weapon upgrade stations to improve the quality of your guns. It's literally all focused around these two things.
>pretends to be more
how? by having a story? he never even says how it's doing so. the game isn't trying to ham-fist extra shit, it knows it's a shooter. It's a good shooter with a nice story. that's it at its barest level.
he thinks BioShock is responsible for the "movie game". Shit like The Last of Us and Nu-Tomb Raider or the new God of Wars.
>the gunplay and plasmid system is intricately tied together and all the mechanics revolve around improving them
They are really half assed, bioshock 2 did such a better job at this.
also funny how you now came to this conclusion after multiple back and forths even 20 to 30 minutes after I replied to you. You clearly wanted to talk because you thought you were hot shit. Now you realize you're just a cold a turd in the rain.
>The "would you kindly" twist works because the game treats you like narratively and gameplay-wise. Bioshock popularized the concept of caring about "ludonarrative dissonance" which could be a valid criticism but it leads to the control freak design
Wrong, wrong, fricking wrong. This is some shit that people just say. The game NEVER tried to make a meta comment on players doing what they're told. The twist is simply possible to do precisely because that's how games are structured
as a matter of fact I guarantee you cannot thoroughly lay out why BioShock 1 is bad in regards to design philosophy and then be able to accurately pinpoint that to the cancerous experience games like The Last of Us or Uncharted.
why do people like you get filtered and don't understand what "movie games" are? Uncharted is the game that really started the 7th gen cancerous design you talk about that's still going strong today (gow ragnarok)
That's the entire point I've been laying out but they're trying to find ways to stretch out the blame to BioShock of all games based on really bullshit broken logic and reasoning
>why do people like you get filtered and don't understand what "movie games" are? Uncharted is the game that really started the 7th gen cancerous design you talk about that's still going strong today (gow ragnarok)
More people praise Bioshock more than anything.
I doubt that's true t b h. Bioshock is praised for its narrative, design, creativity ect. Still doesn't make it guilty of being a movie game when it objectively isn't.
are you actually honest to god moronic? What does "being praised" have to do with being a movie game or not?
>get heavily uncritically praised
>a cancerous new term get coined based on its design
vs
>a PS3 exclusive
>Tomb Raider with dicks
Basic b***h philosophy on top of bad to mediocre gameplay. With the "game are art" mindset, gameplay just became another tool in service of the story.
the term wasn't new and the movie games you're complaining about design wise follow Uncharted. Actually compare and contrast the similarities between Uncharted and something like GOW:R. Games that focus or place an importance on narrative does not a movie game make.
>PS3 exclusive
a wildly popular PS3 exclusive that made Naughty Dog what it is today.
>Tomb Raider with dicks
They're designed completely differently.
The gameplay isn't bad, you haven't given a reason as to why it is, and the philosophy being basic has nothing to do with whether it's a movie game or not.
>with the "games are art" mindset, gameplay was just another tool to in service of the story.
Not in the ways you're describing.
Bioshock doesn't cripple its gameplay or restrict you to tell its story. Gameplay in Bioshock is a top priority which is why most of it is told through audio logs or over the intercom thing. It's also not designed to go that inherently either. TLOU and Uncharted do so by being extremely linear with minimal amounts of gameplay fluidity that shove cutscenes at you rather than letting it unfold naturally.
I know you're not responding cause you can't prove me wrong but you need to be corrected regardless.
also the "games are art" mindset was also a thing before BioShock. This was an argument in the late 90s. For some autistic reason you think BioShock was the crux of all of this when it couldn't be further from the truth.
No, but some massive homosexuals were parading it around to try and dunk on a dead man.
Infinite sure but that's not BioShock 1s fault. honestly I think the most mainstream attention that that argument has gotten stems from the last of us.
Oh I thought you were talking about infinite, sorry that's on me. Maybe that moron thinks Bioshock invented the term immersive sim or some bullshit.
what term did bioshock coin? what games even copied its design philosophy? i can't recall many fps from that time trying to copy it
>the epitome of 7th Gen cancerous design
u fokin wot m8
2’s main narrative is worse than 1 and Lamb was kind of a weak villain, bug I prefer its smaller stories tied to the individual areas, especially Gil Alexander. The only area bosses I found interestinv in 1 were the surgeon (who’s barely in it and dies quickly, and Sander Cohen.
Yes.
Wait a minute....that card...
smartest game ever
>BaS1 Liz has seen behind all the doors.
>Proceeded to enact the most moronic plan possible to spite 1 specific Bookerstock
>Gets bodied by a Daddy despite being able to leave at any point
>BaS2 Liz manages to luck into the Master Plan to bring Fontaine down in the most torturous way possible
Frickin' dumb
Ken Levine recently revealed on Colin Moriarty's podcast that he tried to quit half way through the development of Bioshock Infinite, but was coaxed into staying after being warned that it would kill his career if he left.
Source?
?t=3373
Didn’t it kill his career regardless? Last I heard he was making mobile games.
Nah, he's only been working on one project since Bioshock Infinite. It's called Judas
everyone who worked on this is a mkultra victim
The average mkultra victim is orders of magnitude less mentally ill than you are. They all also most likely managed to get laid at some point in their lives. That's two for two against you
>bullet sponge simulator with abysmally trash story
i don't think i will
Shitty game, only did well because the girl you have to save is hot.
But Ive always liked it, it's just that the gameplay is a downgrade from Bioshock 1 and 2
Kys ken levine, you fricking homosexual
And Adam Levine too, while were at it
Bioshock Infinite is fricking trash kys
No this game killed a good franchise with pretentious bullshit frick it and Ken.
>games are so shit now that makes Infinite look like an absolute masterpiece
I'm sorry.
i didnt HATE this game but on hard enemies can be such bullet sponges that i had to stand around with no ammo waiting for elizabeth to be able to spawn me another ammo spot
I bred your sister, Ken. You'll be happy to that our son, Booker DeWitt II, will be getting into 4th Grade soon.
I am not sorry, nor will I ever be.
kind of a weak game, but so was bioshock
bioshock might have been interesting as an immersive sim instead of a gimmick lore shooter
but an immersive sim youve got to think about, make multiple paths, have different types of interactions, yaddaa yadda yadda
I’m sorry I bought this game on release, contributing to the destruction of video games as a fun hobby.
1>2>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I'm not sorry
You don't have to be sorry, your statement is a fact.
Only good thing about Bioshock Infinite is that it brought back color to AAA gaming and killed off brown n bloom.
I never understood why Tenenbaum started helping Jack half way through the game if you killed all those little sisters. I even restarted my 360 because I thought the game was glitched. Nope, the story was just that fricking dumb and nonsensical. Ken learned nothing with Bioshock infinite. Amazing aesthetic and art style though. Obviously
Elizabeth was my first waifu
I'm sorry I bought it.
Oh wait I didn't lol.
I got nothing to apologize for. I liked it when it came out.
I honestly loved the game, I love all 3 in truth, but yeah I was/am one of the few who actually thought Infinite was a good game, I had a ton of fun in the alternate 1910’s-1920’s era.
it was ok up until the main vox populi revolt. Everything after that is dogshit.
You’re not wrong, I just really enjoyed the setting, I feel as if the game had just been marketed better as it’s own thing, maybe it would be remembered better then it is. Either way, I was not surprised to see it set in the BS universe, even all the way back in, what 07? It seemed to me as if the team behind the first game wanted to make new settings in the series “poking fun”, at the top political systems shown in the game, namely communism, capitalism, libertarianism, theocracy (we saw this on the theme park ride), and while BS 1/2 poked holes into libertarianism, BS:I did so with nationalism + theocracy (basically Woodrow Wilson’s KKK America but in the sky).
I was looking forward to their take on communism, but it seems atomic heart stole that thunder.
Garbage, poorly written israeliteslop
I was completely shocked to find out that the 7th Cavalry/Wounded Knee shit has been massively revised by psychopathic liberals. They were heroes and the injuns were actual cultist monsters.
>They were heroes and the injuns were actual cultist monsters
correc
Why is everyone copying Bioshock Infinite now?
Copying how?
BIOshock made sense since it was in the water but why the frick didn't they call Infinite Aeroshock?
Ken Levine is a fricking idiot lmao
One of the biggest dissapointments of the last decade.
>linear corridor shooter
>2 weapon limit
>regen health
>no hacking
>no levels with more than 2 floors
>no redoing old areas for sidequests
>no interesting weapons
>shitty escort quest where enemies can't even interact with the escortee
no, it fricking sucked
Worst DLC of all time
>Upgrade crows
>Enemies killed while attacked by crows create nests on the ground
>Regular enemies attacked by crows require 1 headshot with carbine to kill
>Use crows+carbine throughout the game because the weapon upgrade system discourages you from switching weapons, especially in the latter parts with Vox weapons
>Join Vox rebellion
>First time having npc allies, cool
>They immediately step on crow nests as soon as they join the fight arena
>They turn hostile
>Now have twice as many enemies to fight
>Never get allies to actually assist a fight
Boy, I really hope somebody got fired for that blunder.
This game and it's developer hates me and my kind, Why should I care for it?
I hate games that try to get smug and meta.
>You have no control and must do what the game says haha, you have no real choice!
I have the ability to choose not to play the game any further.
With Bioshock infinite I played all the way through despite the very mediocre gameplay even though I was hating it more and more, but quit during the ending sequence in the office because I was so tired of the stupid preachiness of it.
With spec ops the line I quit on chapter… 10 or 11? After the ship graveyard. It wasn’t even the cliche preachiness on that one, the gameplay was just too bad so I didn’t want to play it any longer.
Luckily I didn’t pay for either one and I know to just avoid shitty games like these in the future.
I've always felt like this game would've been ten times better if they just decided to stick with the original premise of the game.
They wrote themselves into 10 different corners with all that multiverse hopping madness. I wish the game stayed a simple "Reach the city, find the girl, escape, done". I also hated only carrying 2 weapons, almost completely defeats the purpose of weapon upgrades
>Elizabeth is locked in her room
>can literally tear the fabric of reality at will and walk to another dimension and be free forever
>doesn't because reasons
Holy shit the story is absolutely fricking moronic, also Troy Baker is a turbo homosexual.
I am truly sorry for you.
The only reason people still talk about it is due to the Liz porn.
Clockwork Revolution about to mog Bioshock Infinite and be the game it should have always been
It was a pretty boring game overall (especially compared to Bioshock 1) but the ending was really good so game ended up leaving me with a good impression despite slogging through it back during release. Good endings can dramatically affect the way we ultimately view the quality of a work, and B:I is one of the few works that had an ending that was greater than the sum of its parts.
>B:I is one of the few works that had an ending that was greater than the sum of its parts.
What? Both Bioshock 1 and 2 had good satisfying endings, although Fontaine wasn't that great of a fight mechanically. Infinite's ending was a cluster frick of time travel nonsense going on and on and on.
>but the ending was really good
Are you sure you didn't just pass out near the end?
this was the last game i ever pre-ordered, so in a way, thanks , shitty game.
This game has the best setting of any game ever
no one has even come close to this amount of style and originality in worldbuilding
This abomination was a massive letdown and the story was so frustrating and infuriating it made me stop gaming for all the year and made me pick up painting, so if anything thanks for that.
Art direction and OST was good. It stripped out half of the features of previous installments which is laughable as Bioshock 1 was an already stripped down version of System Shock 2. The story was a clusterfrick that had no real direction and it just did whatever it felt like doing before pulling that dumbfrick ending out of nowhere. People only considered the story good because it tossed enough prose at people to make them feel smart.
I agree. Bioshock 1 failed to impress because it pulled the same gimmick as system shock 2, except it didn’t do it as well.
Playing SS2 after Bioshock 1 made it obvious how much of a soft remake Bioshock is of SS2. The twist of both are so similar it's unbelievable. Only difference is in SS2 is happens about a third of the way in while Bioshock has it towards the end and it has a meta aspect in it.
most actually engaged critics who were seasoned at the time that Bioshock wanted came out made the obvious and noticeable comparisons between system shock 2 and BioShock 1 however they correctly gave Bioshock 1 its merits for being a somewhat refreshing and organic retake on the shock series which I I think it's perfectly applicable
plenty of people still love this game. It's just over here that it's not really well liked. and amongst more I guess you would say "intellectual gamers". The kinds that watch video essays to inform them of their opinion.
I don't dislike Bioshock, infact I think it's good. I even knew it was similar to SS2 but it wasn't until when I played SS2 I saw just how similar it was. As I said, soft remake.
I liked SS2 forcing you to be an unwilling ally to Shodan after the reveal. It built up suspense as it went because you know for a fact that once the many is dealt with Shodan is going to dispose of you as you no longer have any use to her. Shame the final parts of SS2 sucked because a decent final boss would've made turning the tables in her real satisfying, show her who's really in charge here!
>Only difference is in SS2 is happens about a third of the way in while Bioshock has it towards the end
It happens at the halfway point in Bioshock, it just feels like the end because how quickly the game goes downhill after.
Another big difference is that in ss2 you need to continue working with Shodan anyway after the twist, while in bs1 Fontaine immediately becomes your enemy and antagonist after the official big reveal.
>it has a meta aspect in it.
There is actually a bit of that subtly in SS2 as well. Remember you were augmented in the tube and woken up by Shodan in the beginning, which is meant to cause questions on just how much she did to change or control you without you knowing though over the course of the game you find you have more control than she thinks, to her consternation.
I think Bioshock flubbed the Will You kindly reveal cutscene a bit. In the part where Andrew says to Run and then Stop, he doesn’t say would you kindly before saying stop and yet jack still freezes immediately.
Kinda crazy that a franchise died because of a man's autistic daughterwife fetish
>Bioshock Infinite
>Final Fantasy 13
>Metroid Other M
The frick was going on during that time period?
The wrong people were in high seats of power
I pirated this game and still felt ripped off. I am so sorry for people that actually bought it.
>bioshock infinite
>game is not infinite
what the frick is this bullshit, worst game ever
This guy made multiple video spanning over 4 hourd about how fricking israeli this game. It's unbelievable the amount of subversion and israeli lies we intake daily. https://odysee.com/@americankrogan:3/BioShock-The-Hatred-Chapter-1:1
have a nice day, no one cares or is interested in your multi-hour-long schizo ramblings