Don't give a frick about the reboot series, but all the games are discounted on Steam and I've never tried one. Do they actually hold up or do people only prop them up for being innovative at the time?
Are any of the old Tomb Raider games any good?
Don't give a frick about the reboot series, but all the games are discounted on Steam and I've never tried one. Do they actually hold up or do people only prop them up for being innovative at the time?
Just emulate them. Much like Uncharted, 2 is the best one.
Yeah but download them from goggames or whatever is called now and use tomb main fanpatches for each.
Don't listen to morons like
Put into words why emulating is worse than GOG ports?
>reduced fov
>gamma is fricked in tr3
>texture wraping
>no mods/patches
>mods/patches in pc let you enable all the psx features anyways
>no gold levels
>sony is gay
wtf are gold levels???? is it like thief gold wtf
Expansion packs for 1,2 and 3.
All of this is either wrong, pointless or a result of technical incompetence
let's see
>reduced fov
Correct, compare TR1 in PC and in PSX
>gamma is fricked in tr3
Correct, common complaint at the time.
>texture wraping
Correct, that's a PSX defect.
>no mods/patches
Correct, patches and mods are for the pc version.
>mods/patches in pc let you enable all the psx features anyways
Correct too, the Main fanpatches let you use them on pc versions.
>no gold levels
Correct, they are pc exclusives.
>sony is gay
Correct.
So cope & seethe+dilate+ratio.
>fov
the PS1 versions don't run at reduced FOV, the whole image is horizontally squished which can be corrected in any worthwhile emulator. the corrected aspect ratio is almost full widescreen.
>gamma
works on my machine
>texture warping
can be disabled with modern emulators if you really care about it that much
>mods
pointless when you can just play the ps1 versions
>gold levels
don't care
>works on my machine
Imagine making up shit when this was always well known
https://www.tombraiderforums.com/archive/index.php/t-224055.html
>linking to some moronic ESL who provides no useful information
Fascinating, meanwhile I completed the PS1 version just fine
Yeah moron, we believe you despite the fact that the evidence says otherwise.
Played only TR4 for longer and I'd say it's still good. The puzzles can be surprisingly difficult compared to modern games, platforming is difficult and music is wonderful.
I'd say they are still good. Just remember that you are playing games that are over 20 years old and adjust your expectations accordingly. I'd say 4 is the best game in the classic series.
We need a remake with black skin Lara.
Don't give Amazon ideas. They are seriously planning to turn her into a lesbian.
I maintain that Colin was just farming for clicks. At most Lara will be bi.
Does Lara have any even subtle sexual relations with anyone in the PS1 era games as in do they imply a bf or husband or a crush?
There was Curtis in Angel of Darkness.
The closest to a legit love interest is that 2000's edgelord from AoD. Kurtis? She also flirts with Larson a bit.
In the comicbooks and movies though, she has frickton of boyfriends.
I hate black people, but this actually sounds kind of hot if done right.
Where's that last star you say? Why it's in a hidden pyramid that you would only ever discover if you bought our $29.99 strategy guide + tip
Over 22 years later and I'm still mad
This may be the worst character design for a lead in a popular franchise ever, honestly. Black skull shape, laughable proportions, dressed like some boomer dad who doesn't care about his appearance. Just awful.
you realize she's not supposed to be realistic right? so your arbitrary "not like muh modern woman durr urr" standard is moronic. Especially considering that she was bigger than Mario during her time and was able to appeal to far more people.
If you like either platforming or Lara you'll like these games.
PS I fricking hate platformers
TR1, TR2 and TR: TLR are all god-tier exploration/platforming/puzzle games. TR3 is good but unfair and will make you throw your controller at the tv
Tomb Raider 3 felt blatantly unfinished. Namely the Area 51 Stealth segments.
TR3 is uneven. Some levels are absolutely godlike - like the first half of Nevada, South Pacific or Antarctica, some can frick off - like London. But I would say this is the TR game with the most variety to it.
Played 1 for the first time recently and it holds up. almost like a mix of super mario 64 and classic resident evil
The controls and combat can take some getting used to, but overall the way they're designed is all about what you as the player can do as opposed to the levels forcing you on one path and telling you every place you need to jump and climb.
TR4 is the best IMO and definitively worth playing. I played them a lot on my PS and 4 is the one I enjoyed the most.
You just have to accept the shitty tank controls, 4 has great levels and cool secrets.
TR4 kinda outstays its welcome after a while.
I get that the devs wanted to show off the insane amount of research they did with the history of Egypt (hey, at least it's not TR1 with a Temple of Thor in Greece), but this game is 5 hours too long. I think I got burned out after Cairo.
I completely forgot about Chronicles. I liked 4 but 5 was definitively the one I played the most, I think I liked it so much because of the level variety, but I remember 4 having the best puzzles.
They are actually really fun, with pretty challenging platforming and puzzles. You may want to install some fan patches, though, especially for TR1, so that it doesn't look like utter shit.
>Do they actually hold up or do people only prop them up for being innovative at the time?
No and no
lmao
Well then why do people prop them up?
do you really expect an honest answer from such a shallow response to OP?
Angel of Darkness is sort of tragic. The bones of a great game are clearly there. But it was just so heavily cut down by corporate incompetence, over ambition, and just general frickery.
Yes, TR1-4 are all great games. TR3 can be a bit uneven in quality and TR4 might drag a bit depending on who you ask though.
That said, if you're a braindead zoomer that gets filtered by controls that aren't immediately comfortable to them, don't bother. We got enough of those morons shitting up TR related discussion about how overrated it is and how they never understood the appeal of classic TR.
Chronicles was very clearly ideas left on the cutting room floor over the course of the series. That being said I really did like the Ireland section.
Yeah, TR5 was the one game Core REALLY didn't want to make, because they would rather focus on AoD. Eidos forced them to anyway, so they just slapdashed together a bunch of cut levels from other games and called it a day.
Core was so fricking sick of yearly TR games that they fricking killed off Lara in TR4, so that they can finally move on into something new and it STILL didn't stick.
Come to think of it, Tomb Raider was the original Assassin's Creed, only Assassin's Creed got way, waaaay worse.
>Yeah, TR5 was the one game Core REALLY didn't want to make, because they would rather focus on AoD. Eidos forced them to anyway
? I thought it was the other way around, that they were actually working on Chronicles first and Eidos split the team because they wanted to rush a PS2 title quickly to get ahead of the curve or something and because Eidos was a genuinely shit company that was losing money unless a Tomb Raider game was being sold. They drove the franchise into the ground by demanding too much of it too frequently, the fact that Tomb Raider even has has 4 classic good games is a miracle. One game should never have to carry and entire company, it's too much and the inevitable is inevitable.
IIRC correctly, the very reason TLR ended the way it ended was to send the signal that Core are done with Lara, but then Eidos force them to shit out another sequel (in reality a glorified mission pack), while half of the team was already developing AoD to revitalize the series.
Anyway, the point being, it was a mess and nobody wanted TR:Chronicles, except for Eidos themselves.
And Chronicles ended up being the straw that broke the camel's back in terms of Lara's pop culture footprint.
No, I think it was honestly Angel of Darkness.
I remember the hype surrounding it. Sure, dude, TR5 blowed, but in a year or so, AoD will come out on a new engine, and it will blow everyone's minds. And then it didn't.
And I feel sorry for AoD, because by god, this game was trying, it just wasn't ready for release.
I completely disagree with the narrative that "AOD definitely could have been good bro I promise" There are dozens of unfinished games that people find beloved still and worthy of some praise. Dark Souls 1 is notoriously unfinished and despite that, that game is still exemplary for the most part. I'm convinced now that, good games aren't necessarily finished, and bad games aren't necessarily bad because they're unfinished. They're bad simply because they had nothing of note to them, no cohesive structure or strong gameplay loop, nothing.
AOD was simply a garbage game, and would have been mediocre whether it was finished somewhat more or not. It lacked a strong gameplay loop, the story got too much in the way of everything, the gunplay was haphazard, you can't even figure out what they were TRYING to do with it? it's just poorly designed, and while YES that may be because they were rushed, it's also likely because their ideas weren't actually good and couldn't be put together in any cohesive and properly designed way.
I legitimately think that AoD needed some 2-3 years more in the oven, because what got released wasn't even pre-alpha. So, yeah, you may be right that this game was doomed from the start, but I still think that Core wanted to make it good.
And all of you zoomers out there that think that Cyberpunk was the biggest launch disaster in gaming history, you don't fricking remember Angel of Darkness.
The first three are definitely worth a playthrough and with some tweaking (there's guides in each games community section) for modern res and using a controller if you want. Also TR1-3 on PC all have PC only expansions you can obtain and play on steam.
Croft Manor is the best tutorial area of any game.
I used to be scared of the butler following me around
>PPTFTFTFT
OOOoh!
How the hell does one find pockets of surviving dinosaurs three times in her career on three completely different continents?
...when was the third time?
She found a fricking dragon, but that doesn't count.
The two T-Rexes in China, The Lost Valley and the South Pacific.
Oh, yeah, I forgot about the gotcha T-Rex just fricking around in the Wall of China.
That whole level is hilarious to me because the Great Wall of China is quite literally the biggest tourist attraction in the world. The whole area would be filled with tourists and CCP guards.
only certain sections of the Wall are open to the public, the rest is forbidden
>Oh, yeah, I forgot about the gotcha T-Rex just fricking around in the Wall of China
I had to look this up because I didn't believe you, Anon. This game still has secrets that my autismo brain couldn't find...Crazy shit.
Maybe it's them finding her?
The LAU Trilogy were good games. Their platforming focused more on gracefully making your way through and obstacle course rather than a puzzle box. Hence the time trial mode.
I don't mind them, it's apples vs oranges for me. I just have more attachement to Core games. They felt more "epic" in a way.
>Their platforming focused more on gracefully making your way through and obstacle course rather than a puzzle box
No they weren't because they APE so much from Prince of Persia its ridiculous, the pole swinging, column shimmiying and jumping to and frough, the thin beam balancing. They just copy Prince of Persia but made it worse, because the platforming is infinitely more linear than PoP while also feeling much shorter and shallower, the LAU trilogy games were just genuinely mediocre games, and not the 7/10 mediocre, but 6/10 because they took mechanics from PoP while never using it as indepth or fluid as PoP. The feeling I always got playing the trilogy was "That was kind of fun but...that's all?" the Platforming is genuinely so much more shallow compared to its contemporary (Prince of Persia) and its Predecessor (Classic Tomb Raider) making it this weird and hollow haphazard platforming with no identity.
And this is only criticizing the platforming for what it is, because as an actualy gameplay loop? It throws all the unique beats that made Tomb Raider stand out from everything else, the unmatched sense of scale that didn't just look that way, but also felt that way to climb and actually scale, the complex and looping geometry, the tight, consistent and YES, FLUID jumps, because Classic Tomb Raider actually COULD feel both fluid and puzzle boxy at times, and not a one dimensional obstacle course.
The LAU trilogy are garbage games because they're not good enough to continue the legacy of it'd Predecessor, and not even good enough to match its contemporaries. It's a disappointment of a trilogy that is meant to appeal to the lowest common denominators that have no standards for videogame franchises and will eat anything up that has a modicum of gameplay that feels convenient, oops, I meant to say "fluid" sorry.
do you like waddling around with the pacing of a geriatric?
do you like exploring big empty spaces?
DO YOU FRICKING LOVE CRATE PUZZLES?
just pirate them btw. all the steam versions are shit.
Tomb Raider 1 is a masterpiece (except for gunfights but they're scarce).
TR2 is good but a bit clunky because of all the gunfights. It doesn't have the great atmosphere of 1 either.
I don't know about the rest.
TR3 is hands down the biggest and the most varied. It also kinda tones down the gunfights, but overcompensates by having the platforming be buttclenchingly hard. In a way TR3 feels less like a Indiana Jones movie, and more like a 90's adventure TV show where Lara just fricks around all around the world, having wacky misadventures and then it all culminates in the season finale in the Arctic. Also, the final levels are kino if you love Lovecraft and The Thing.
TR4 has the most fleshed out story and arguably the strongest puzzles, but it kinda goes on for too long.
>TR2 is good but a bit clunky because of all the gunfights
>despite TR2 having the mechanic where you can roll in the air
just say you suck at the gunplay and move on, the series significantly improves and gets better with the gunplay as it goes on, it's not perfect because people will simply always get filtered by the controls, but it gets better. The most egregious thing about the gunfights is hitscan enemies, but doom had that too and people still dicksuck that game to high heavens lmao.
The controls aren't the issue. Its the hitscanners.
Not him, but the problem with 2 is that it has a TON of gunfights. I know of the roll in the air maneuver (run towards enemy, jump over him and roll in midair), but it's just that there are so many gun-toting enemies. It becomes tiresome. TR3 had the right balance, although that game has its own list of problems.
>The most egregious thing about the gunfights is hitscan enemies, but doom had that too and people still dicksuck that game to high heavens lmao.
But DOOM gave you options to avoid or quickly kill those enemies, so they were never a problem. And your aiming controls were way more precise. Once you get to the Monastery, you'll see what I am getting at.
Not only enemies in TR2 some real fricking bullet sponges, the game has this idiotic habit of spawning them on top of a ledge that Lara has to climb onto, so they chip away at her health, while she sloooowly climbs up. The combat was designed to fight melee enemies and slow projectiles, not hitscan weapons.
What I agree with is bullet sponge enemies, and bullshit enemy placement, otherwise. the combat is actually surprisingly well designed for letting you dodge and avoid attacks, Lara is acrobatic as frick, and anybody who has played this game enough will remember atleast ONE moment where they elegantly dodged and rank circles around and enemy, backflipping, sideflipping, and rolling to almost perfectly take someone out.
Obviously Hitscanning is the biggest problem, I don't like it in doom either despite how quickly you can kill enemies, but you're probably right in that the biggest difference is bullet sponge enemies. I don't know what you mean by "avoid" enemies in doom tho? Do you mean just corner peaking?
>I don't know what you mean by "avoid" enemies in doom tho? Do you mean just corner peaking?
enemies had projectiles that you could avoid. certain enemies had melee attacks you could avoid by backpedaling during their windup. doom had more arena like design for their levels, so you could avoid large mobs by taking an alternative path in stuff like the pit, refueling base, and etc.
I hated the levels in TR 3. The game starts with a classic jungle ruins and it's awesome. But then they put you in Venice and the shit-tier Area 51, it's where the game becomes a slog.
Venice is TR2
TR3 is clearly when the team started phoning it in because they were burnt out. Really it's just a glorified expansion pack for TR2.
And taking all your guns & ammo away on 1 level when you can choose them in any order was fricking moronic
>Really it's just a glorified expansion pack for TR2.
Can literally say this about any of the games, this is disingenuous as frick, the reality is that the games add a bunch of new core mechanics literally like every single game without being shallow and gimmicky like every Mario game that comes after the last gimmicky Mario game with no level design and gimmick galore
Game doesn't need to be perfect to be appreciated for how it expands on the core. TR3 has a ton of unique elements despite its "flaws" if any body should be subject to any criticism, it should be eidos for demanding a game every single year, 3 games max should have been all, like with the Resident Evil games (Which TR was far less iterative on comparatively) but 2 games would have been much more preferable methinks
Didn't TR3 add crouching/crawling and sprinting?
That alone added a number of layers to the platforming. I think TR2 only added a sidestep and quick 180 turn.
TR2 added ladders
exactly my point. I had always heard people make fun of the tomb raider games for "being the same game 15 times lmao lmao lmao" but I'm almost convinced that 90% of those morons haven't actually played the games because they will eat up the same shit for Mario, Zelda, assasins creed, final fantasy etc. But those games rarely actually expand on the core gameplay in anyway, they just tack on a super surface level gimmick like pirates (asscreed) talking hat (honestly both Mario and Zelda, but I'd argue Zelda actually uses this well) and weird ATB half turn based, non turn-based, junction bullshit that doesn't actually change or make anything deeper.
Not to say TR3 is perfect, but it's much more respectable and impressive than the more shallow and repetitive bullshit we've gotten from other series' God forbid I mention Resident Evil here too, whether it's the pre 4 era or the post 4 era, they're both the same in regards to being repetitive (which isn't actually technically a bad thing imo, if you've got a good formula, you should expand on it, not change it, losing a games identity sucks, but don't go shitting on better series for a surface level impression of a lack of "change")
Holy shit get a load of this Black person. So TR3 added sprint and crawliing and you think that's worthy of a sequel?
Meanwhile the industry was introducing THPS2 and Mario 64. The fact that Core Design stuck with the existing engine and controls was 90% of the reason it got handed over to Crystal Dynamics
>Meanwhile the industry was introducing THPS2 and Mario 64???
What is people obsession with Mario 64 lmao? The first tomb raider game literally came out only a couple months after Mario 64 and was completely different and actually distinct. What is this obsession with the idea that Mario 64 actually did anything interesting or impressive besides casualizing 3D platforming by making it mindless collectathons with no level design? I don't even understand what the point of this comment is because it's not saying anything other than
"ME LIKE MARIO64 VERY GOOD OH YESS! YESSS!"
But no please tell me how people are clamouring for a tank controlling adventure game focusing on key puzzles
Core Design should have taken a 3-4 year break after TR2 and focused on actually innovating their formula
>Core Design should have taken a 3-4 year break after TR2 and focused on actually innovating their formula
What makes you assume they had a choice?
it doesnt even make any sense, games were made much quicker in the 90s, to take a 4 year break would be essentially dissolving the company.
>Core Design should have taken a 3-4 year break after TR2 and focused on actually innovating their formula
Eidos disagreed. Core had to keep up their annual release timeline, or else. They could only do so much within a year and with such a small team, that innovation wasn't really their priority.
And why innovate, when Tomb Raider 1-4 were selling like hotcakes, anyway?
>Core Design should have taken a 3-4 year break after TR2 and focused on actually innovating their formula
they did. many times more than Mario ever has.
there's this insidious aspect of "innovation" that's so incredibly superficial and permeating in videogame culture. Games like Mario, Zelda, and Assasins Creed get away with never innovating because they always tack on some gimmick that makes the game seem different on the surface without actually changing or elaborating on the core mechanics and what you're expected to do. It's not CHANGE. It's "difference" the games feel different because they're contrasted by something that opposes or changes what the game is, rather than how it actually plays.
E.G: Wind Waker and AssCreed 4 with sailing and pirates. It doesn't actually change or innovate on their core gameplay, it just adds something completely distinct onto it. Then you have Mario Odyssey with its meaningless Hat mechanics that doesn't actually do anything besides be contextually quirky and "wowwwwza!" Mario Galaxy was the only Mario game that ever felt like it actually elaborated on a core Mario feature "Jumping" while also having level design that takes proper advantage of that.
Tomb Raider 1-3 was more innovative while mainting its identity than most games. It just had the unfortunate circumstance being forced to yearly release, so those changes could be less appreciated objectively because people perceptions of change only matters after a long instance of no change. Look at BOTW for example of that. You still have yet to prove how TR1-3 isn't innovative without taking cheap shots by implying your subjective opinion of Mario 64 being better and blaming Tomb Raider for problems that were a result of shitty corporate quotas.
>nintedo kids are easily impressed
yeah pretty much. i didnt have a 64 (NES to PSX) and it never understood the enthusiasm for games like M64. Crash, TR, Twisted metal and Spyro spoiled me.
The underwater section in TR2 was great and wonderfully atmospheric and I don't know what you guys are on about.
The problem is they drop you in with no chance to actually orient yourself.
Just follow the barrels?
brooo how was I supposed to know tho??? They should've splattered them with yellow paint or just give you a marker to follow fr fr
2 > 3 > 1 > Legend > Underworld > Rise > Reboot > 4 > 5 > Angel of Darkness Anniversary + frick off with your "hurr durr reboot bad even though i never played it"
have a nice day attention prostitute piece of zoomer homosexual shit
I played the reboots and they sucked dick. No need to get all pissy at OP because you're a tasteless homosexual.
Terrible list btw, have a nice day
eat shit, troony
both old and new games are good (except Anniversary, frick that shit)
I love that you have memoryholed Shadow.
I approve, though.
They're great, but play the PS1 versions for non-casualized save systems.
Good luck beating TR3 with that save system.
I have, as have many others. Perhaps you need to get good.
I spent SO MANY HOURS trying to 100% all the secrets in TR3, because my piece of shit friends told my then naive teenage self that if you do that, you'll unlock the new level and get to play as naked Lara.
They were half right. Imagine my dissapointment.
Anybody who tells you "The tank controls are shitty" is low IQ and didn't even get the game, they probably played it with their brain turned off, and purely on intuition, assuming they can even turn it on in the first place. Or they played 1 level for a little bit and watched a YouTube video of the game and parrot all that's been said to death about the games.
If you can't understand how Lara's controls are fundamental to the grid based level design and how it distinctly cannot be reduced to "shitty tank controls" a la Resident Evil, when it's the only platformer game to this day to ever give you so much control over a characters movements. Then you don't deserve to talk about this game and should have a nice day.
Just like with any moderately skilled activity, you will have to get used to learning how to control Lara's movement in specific ways. In swimming, In running, In Long Distance running, in Tennis, In soccer, In Volleyball, any time you do anything more than the average Human Body is familiar with doing, you will REALIZE how complicated and difficult it is to actually control the human body when you're expected to do anything that isn't extremely basic. That actually pushes the body. People think controlling one's body is simple and easy because instinct carries the human race so fricking hard on basic actions, and they've never been put in circumstances where they actually have to use their body in any meaningful capacity.
I think of the classic Tomb Raider games almost like a skilled sport, the human body is simultaneously simple and complicated, and so is Lara in her games. Tank Controls in resident evil games arent hard, they're just annoying and tedious, because those games don't bring out the true potential of those controls, they don't expect any truly effective use of movement, and 90% of the game is horizontal movement.
Tomb Raider is different because it's level design is genuinely insane at times and expects much more of you than any platformer
>when it's the only platformer game to this day to ever give you so much control over a characters movements
mario 64 gives you a lot more control. TR is more like a slower paced 3d ghost and goblins with more intricate level design. that being said, it's a casual game with some embarrassing pacing and shoehorned combat. also quicksaving lol.
>ghost and goblins with more intricate level design
>linear 2d combat game that plays nothing like tr????
>doesn't even liken it to the obvious examples of classic prince of persia???
yeah, that's a Mario fan alright lmao.
also delusional enough to think somehow that Mario gives more control, despite being significantly less deliberate, significantly more convenient, and significantly more pointless in the explicit lack of any actual level design to test that control beyond "go collect that thing lmaoooo"
there are a ton of contextual actions on Mario 64, almost none in Tomb Raider, and when there are, they use exquisite level design to bring the best out of that, which Mario 64 lacks, and so does Sunshine, which I'm only giving credit for incase you want to make the excuse "well urrgg u can't compare tr3 and 4 to Mario 64 durrr" my point was just about comparing context based actions. Tomb Raider 1 still mogs Mario 64 in every regard except being easy and convenient for normies that don't like level design and exploration because "it's too hard and challenging :'("
i was referring to ghost and goblins as in the physics generally demands you to be committed to your movement. as in, your jump will be directed mostly by the physics algo and you wont be really be able to alter it by control input. im not knocking this against tomb raider, it's one of the more unique aspects about it.
Mario 64 DOES give more control with a vastly bigger moveset. specifically, why you sperg about 'collecting things' in a 3d platformer is non sensical. you literally have to collect things like keys, cogs, and totems to specifically progress in TR to progress. nearly every 3d platformer outside of linear ones specifically require to collect or fetch things to progress the game.
>there are a ton of contextual actions on Mario 64, almost none in Tomb Raider
what do you mean by this? there are actions in TR that play based on a specific context. i.e. flipping every switch or picking up items.
i think you could enjoy TR if you liek slower paced (more like geriatric pacing) platformers with an emphasis on atmospheric exploration. particularly, no 3d platformer is particularly hard. but TR casualizes itself with quicksaves like most PC centric games.
if you're talking long term impact, more people go back and create custom mods and levels for M64 over Tomb Raider by a significant margin. it's ultimately the more interesting game to play at higher or lower skill levels.
>you literally have to collect things like keys, cogs, and totems to specifically progress in TR to progress
I cant believe the lengths Mario fans have to go to to validate their videogames lmao.
don't know whether to even address this or consider this conversation pointless for how unnuanced and borderline sub 80iq symptoms this point alone is. lmao
>I cant believe the lengths Mario fans have to go to to validate their videogames lmao.
i guess the market just validates them itself.
TR flounders and dies. the reboots are ultimately different games in design. mario is still kicking and breathing to this day and even manages to get knockoffs. nobody bothers even making TR throwbacks, let alone passion projects for it. some fricktard sits in /b/ and cant even half heartedly justify it as the better game.
True, the Market does validate good videogame design consistent as we're well aware, how could anybody deny or imply that Genshin Impact is a shallow game? Call of Duty the greatest fps of all time? Assasins Creeds the epitome of stealth. Far Cry and GTA innovators and exemplars of open world and quest design. Fifa the greatest Simulation games ever. Why ever think or consider games deeper to be examined when we can appeal to the consistent and reliable way we know that capitalism enables art and expression over efficiency and consistency (or should I say...repetition hm)
At the end of the day. I can make actual arguments to support my points, you'll just mindlessly appeal to the arbitrary fact of the matter that your franchise seems to get more attention than another, with no context or investigation for why. I have arguments you can't argue against. You have facts that mean nothing without context.
>nobody bothers even making TR throwbacks, let alone passion projects for it.
Literally thousands of levels on this site lol
https://www.trle.net/
The market didn't even kill it. Publisher moronation did. Tomb Raider was fricking huge in the UK until that shitty bland american reboot
>i was referring to ghost and goblins as in the physics generally demands you to be committed to your movement
it's not even the same thing though because tomb raider movement is incredibly consistent and deliberate? There's no cringe weird arbitrary physics movement. I've played the classic Prince of Persia and that's the most apt comparison.
>Mario 64 DOES give more control with a vastly bigger moveset.
What? who the frick cares that's not what I mean by "control" literally any and every single videogame gives "control" based on that standard, the PS2 tomb raider games, the PS2 prince of persia games, even the Uncharted and reboot games have more "control" based on that standard since they have VASTLY greater and more varied movesets.
By control, I mean consistent and understandable actions that can be made at any time, in any context, and is expected of you. You can always control the specific direction you want Lara to be turned towards, you can control how far she jumps, how close she can walk up to an edge, how far she can shimmy to the side, whether to swan dive, whether to roll, whether to grab onto a ledge, or shimmy on that ledge, whether to backflip or sideflip.
Every action is deliberate and has its place, and doesn't expect you to just press the forward button and a button occasionally. You have to carefully position and time every action Lara makes, it's NOT the same as Mario 64 because a lot of platforming in that game amount to you just pressing forward and (A) I have to press so many more buttons when platforming in tomb raider than I ever do in Mario 64. Tomb Raider would be shit without its level design and just as shit without its controls, it's the fact that Core was able to make both so cohesive and indepth that is impressive.
Mario Galaxy proved that good level design makes platforming much better. Mario 64 and its offshoots are just glorified children's playgrounds to frick around in.
ok. fair enough. guess i simply dont like 3d platformers that are slow and deliberate.
glad we could understand eachother and resolve this atleast, decently nice convo that forced me to think about platformers more deeply 🙂
>but TR casualizes itself with quicksaves like most PC centric games
is this comment a troll? I legit cannot tell now. who's gunna tell him what platforms Tomb Raider started on, and how those saving systems work, honestly if nobody's interested, I completely understand because of how moronic this comment is.
Follow my tier list
TR3 and Underworld are actually really good.
And honestly, the nu-reboot TRs are so detached from what they once were in literally every aspect, I no longer consider them a part of this franchise.
>TR3
If TR3 was only the good parts, it'd be the best game in the series surpassing TLR.
can somebody please post the stupid fricking brainless climbing sequence from tomb raider where it looks like her wetsuit is riding up her ass. Underworld morons have been doing some revisionist history. One of the worst plots and most movie game of the Trilogy. God we will never get an exemplary game in this series again lmao.
TR3 is actually godlike in some cases, has some of the best levels, but it's flawed. Much more deserving of "underrated" than Underworld that's for sure
Where is The Lost Artifact?
>duude lara has a tragic backstory now doesn't that make her more human and relatable???
>also frick her two pistols those are problematic, a bow and arrow is trendy so that's her main choice of weapons moving forward LOL
>immerse yourself in this cinematic experience as you hold forward and watch a 20 second long animation of lara slowly crawling through a crack!!
>platforming? what's that? Ugh, so antiquated! Just roughly jump in the direction you want to go and lara will magically magnetize herself to the nearest ledge! Still too much for you? We have linear scripted wall climbing segments you can mash through as well!
>oh we also improved the combat with cover shooting mechanics!
>so hop on in and join Natha- I mean Lara Croft for the moviegame experience of your lifetime!
TR2013 is everything I hate about modern triple AAA trash packaged into a pile of shit. God, I hate it so much.
https://babd.wincenworks.com/tag/tomb-raider/
https://bikiniarmorbattledamage.tumblr.com/post/177089535223/silks-stuff-nomtheburritos
https://bikiniarmorbattledamage.tumblr.com/page/139
>Taking a Tumblr blog seriously.
I hate the 2nd era tomb raider games, it's way too restrictive.
I'll see a clear path to go to and the games like LOL um you can't actually grab that so you'll fall to your death, because thats sequence braking even though the ledge is two feet to your right, you have to go this route THEN you can grab it :3
I genuinely don't understand how anyone can like this game coming from the classic Tomb Raiders unless they were SO desperate to find a light at the end of the tunnel after the disaster that was AOD that they Stockholm syndromed themselves into thinking the games are good because...they have gameplay...and puzzles...and shooting...
The games literally feel like they are made from some abstract idea of what a PS2 action adventure game is supposed to be rather than any actual game with an identity or point to its gameplay loop.
Like seriously, this is coming from ME, a person who played Legend first, then months later found out the classic Tomb Raider games even exist, and was fricking blown away once I got to St.Francis Folly. I didn't even hate Legend it was an "Okay this is funnish" experience that I only didn't finish because my save got fricked. But what the frick is the point of a "okayish fun" game when I could play better games? That do all the things Legend tries to and wants to do far better?
Like why is the standard so fricking low for this series that vague and shallow, unfocused, unimpressive "fun" is all that should be expected of the games now? And people wonder why the Reboot games barely feel like Tomb Raider at all, they were made by the same company as the LAU trilogy, and everything egregious about the reboot started in LAU trilogy, it's just that the ps2 games were more superficially faithful to the image and aesthetic of Tomb Raider, that less critical eyes would eat it up.
LAU didn't blow my mind necessarily, but I was a dumb kid that just wanted to see Lara in the new era, and that was the closest you could get. I still only finished Anniversary though.
I guess none of those games had this "holy shit" moment that I had when I first explored India in TR3 (that being my first TR game). Those levels blew my mind with how open they were. LAU or the later nu-reboot couldn't even compare.
>they were made by the same company as the LAU trilogy
People adore those games and put them on a pedestal as peak tomb raider games when I honestly don't get they hype
They do?
Even back when they came out, a lot of fans and the journalists were like, "yeah, the Legend is fun, I guess, but the original games still blow them away".
>picking up an artifact and Lara says "a-ha"
>That art
You gotta respect a dude who spends years learning how to draw comics in order to draw his waifu getting fricked.
still very enjoyable gameplay wise, but you're gonna have to get past the early 3d
1~4 are good. V is too short, but has its moments. 6 is utter crap.
I just played through 1 and 2 recently. 2 is not as good as 1 though it does bring in some neat new additions. Way too much combat which means way too much menu usage. 2 is also a lot harder with some cheap shit and just isn't as fun to me.
4 is a solid 8/10 if you can get over the bonkers controls.
>tank controls
>flicking the stick in the .7 seconds you have to do a directional jump
>Square to jump
>find the magic pixel you have to stand on to activate the thing
>flicking the stick in the .7 seconds you have to do a directional jump
am I crazy or is this just a skill issue???
>find the magic pixel you have to stand on to activate the thing
wtf does this even mean????
Try playing TR4?
why can't you just make an actually specific point instead?
The very first level after the tutorial is full of switches that you need to stand perfectly to activate and you learn all about jumping in the tutorial. you should try the game, it holds up pretty well after you get used to the archaic controls.
>that you need to stand perfectly to activate
You just need to stand vaguely near the center of the switch, due to the grid movement.
>run up to the wrong side of the switch
>guess ill go frick myself and try the otherside
it was minor but you notice it every time you boot it up again.
>press the ACTION BUTTON to jump
>then press the INTERACT BUTTON to grab
IM GETTING IT, IM GETTING IT
I played them a bit on the PS1 bitd, and I'm about 2/3 of the way through Tomb Raider I on GOG. I started it last summer, took a break, and just recently returned to it. You have to tweak the game files a bit and use JoyToKey to get the game going. Also the aged controls can get tiresome here and there, BUT....it's a great game, and I recommend it.
Yes. They still are some of the most atmospheric and even "scary" experiences you can have in videogames. A lot of people got filtered by the controls which aren't bad when you learn that every movement you make is deliberate and it's trying to be much more like the old "cinematic" platformers like Prince of Persia rather than Mario 64
>remember 1st level of Tomb Raider 2 I didn't know where to go cause I couldn't see the ledges on the PS1
Did this happen to anyone else or was I just a stupid ass kid? It did make me find out that a tiger shows up if you waste time.
Maybe you had a problem with your drivers? I remember there being some issues with 3D rendering on some GPUs.
sauce bro
Yep it's kino time
I still maintain that old TR games are more convenient to play on a keyboard than on a controller, thanks to a grid-based movement.
how is tomb raider anniversary? does it make the OG feel worthless?
I played the first one for the first time a few years ago, I was a bit slow to get into it but once I did it was excellent, actually deserves it's all-time classic status. The build-up from exploring empty tombs to fighting animals and rarely humans, then eventually supernatural elements and weirder stuff is masterfully done. The first game alone has multiple unforgettable moments.
I played a bit of 2 but I wasn't really into it. Map design felt "big for the sake of big" and kind of meandering and the gameplay was generally more combat-focused which isn't really what I enjoyed about the first. The locations are still great though, which is a lot of what makes them great.
Also I'd like to give them credit for having some of the best underwater controls and funnest underwater segments of their generation.
can you mod the old games to make her more sexy
just not low polygon breasts is all i'm asking for
From the TR4 onwards, yes? There is a proper mod for that.
Dem abs.
Think in blocks and everything will make sense. And definitely do the tutorials in the mansion before you start.
By the way, any of you guys know what the deal with OpenLara is? Better than the fan patches, worthless shit? Only reason I ask is because it got ported to OG Xbox and I'm wondering if I should run the classic games through that.
>OpenLara
I actually never used that port, so I don't see what the hype is all about. For me TR1Fix/Main is everything I ever wanted from a "modernized" TR1. I guess OpenLara is more moddable, though.
They have a browser demo if you wanna check it out for yourself. I personally don't like at all because it has superres textures and lightning which clashes with the entire game cubic design, it's like that meme with the cat textures.
So, anyone knows what happened to the "anime" and netflix series? You think we could be lucky enough to see it getting canceled?
Tomb Raider 1 in very good, some of the later levels can take hours to beat. Pyramid of Giza is in my top 10 favorite video game levels of all time, just goes so off the rails, it gets so creepy and awesome
Obligatory. This ambient track actually made a return in TR2 during the entire Maria Doria section. It works great.
What if lara croft looked like this? Doesnt feel so good now, does it?
Hey guys can be sexy too. Let it all hang out I say.
Most male gamers would cry and call it gay, and would know how female gamers feel
ok don't bother with all the other shitters, read this message and you'll know everything you need
>1 is a staple, play it to get used to the clunky controls and be amazed at how much it still holds up
>2 is that but it expands on the concept and goes a bit harder on action, probably the best in the classic series
>3 goes insane with locations and situations and still looks very pretty to this day, it's unfortunately hard in a not funny way
>4 is a good contender for the best in the classic series, but it's all set in egypt so it kinda gets stale after a while, especially cause it has kind of a non linear approach
>5 is not as bad as people will tell you, introducing new cute little things, but it does feel like a level pack
the modern trilogy starts with an honest try at making an uncharted like game and it's really not bad, although it feels a bit all over the place
the second one is the weakest of the three, and the third one is honestly a good game
>the second one is the weakest of the three
What makes you say that? I think it's the best of the three.
>the second one is the weakest of the three, and the third one is honestly a good game
I've heard the reverse much more frequently, all this tells me to be honest is that the games lack so much identity, that the judgements of them are mostly arbitrary, I've never actually heard anybody justify any of their points for why or how either or is worse or better than the other, especially when both games are largely the same as the first, there was more innovation between TR1, 2 and 3, than 2013, Rise, and Shadow. Which is why I'll never get "Actually the First one was pretty good" Beyond the novelty of seeing Lara in a new light or rather... Seeing Uncharted, but GIRL protag, and light survival elements.
>there was more innovation between TR1, 2 and 3, than 2013, Rise, and Shadow.
That's just false. The original three are pretty much the same with just a few new moves added.
TR2013 to Rise is was a much bigger difference, more like 3 to TLR.
I guess Shadow (re)introduced swimming, something that was in TR games since day 1 if I might add, but I honestly can't think of any innovations Rise made compared to 2013.
>TR1->TR2: Turn in Mid-Air, Ladders, Vehicles allowing for much more expanded level design, Some of the best most elaborate and explorative (made up that word, bear with me for thr sake of convenience) underwater levels in all of gaming unironically. And there's probably some more I'm missing.
>TR2->TR3: Crawling/Crouching, Sprinting on top of the crazy levels in 3 already adds a ton of layers to the platforming and exploration. I haven't played TR3 in a long time so there could be some stuff I'm missing.
I can't argue against your moronic arbitrary feelings of how they "felt to play" because some people simply don't understand or appreciate even the differences between Dark Souls 1 and 3 in terms of combat and those game could not feel more further apart to play. All I can do is point out the objective differences and how they contribute to different forms of progressing through a level and the different things you have to consider now in gameplay. When it comes to "sequels" or "continuations" there will always be some people that will emphasize or downplay some differences vs others, that's just the subjective element of playing and evaluating videogames.
I think the changes are meaningful enough, if not as flashy, gimmicky, and surface level different to some of the ones you might see in other series' like Mario, Zelda, Assasins Creed, or...somehow...Reboot2013, Rise and Shadow lmao??? And this is without me not even getting into the fact that you somehow didn't and haven't listed what "meaningful" changes those 3 games have.
Literally all good
You think that Steve of Warr will finally release that TR2013 reboot review at some point?
You think he'll rip it a new one, or will go gentle with it to not to piss off the rainbow people?
he will be gentle with it like his reviews of the LAU trilogy, his reviews are entertaining but so shallow. his Underworld review ended up making it seem like it might be the best of the LAU trilogy but he ends up at the end dispelling everyone that calls it "underrated" and saying it's like the Angel of Darkness of the LAU trilogy, and I was just like "huh????" his reviews always feel pointless, and more like he's commenting on or acknowledging the game rather than actually saying something, so much so that it felt jarring at the end when his actual honest expressed opinions felt in juxtaposition to how he covered the game
I just want to see his doublethink in action. I know from his streams that he REALLY doesn't like the 2013 reboot (or at least doesn't think it's a proper Tomb Raider game) but he probably will be afraid to piss off people, so we'll be having some nice mental gymnastics in action here.
Never heard of this guy until now but this is Channel Awesome tier shite. Fricking millions of these oxygen wasters on youtube
remember that time, when the loch ness monster was a robot?
i remember.
>win
>get punished by missing secrets
what were they thinking?
They knew it was impossible to win or they did as a consolation prize.
I won it.
Tomb Raider 3 is the most brutal game I have ever played, would recommend
Don't bother buying the PC versions. Emulate with a controller. They play great on a Steam Deck in this way too. Very comfy gaming.
Blew my dads mind hearing the Tomb Raider music again for the first time in like 20 years when I showed him the other week.
But TR games on PC are perfectly fine. I think that GOG TR1 with TR1Fix is probably the best version you can get.
>But TR games on PC are perfectly fine
>no save crystals
what did he mean by this???
Some patches let you enable them, but imagine thinking this is good because it cames from the psx version, lol.
where are the fake TR fans coming from that don't obviously understand the tension and challenge that comes from actually having to figure out the right way to go and making consistent jumps while also having to manage when to use and save (no pun intended) a save crystal for a later time, despite the risk of possibly going back further to an old save crystal.
The save crystal placement isn't even that bad, they can be very generous, they're just supposed to exist to actually challenge you to learn and understand the layout of a level while giving you some much needed relief after tension. They're like simpler version of Dark Souls 1 bonfires. But I hear normies don't actually like interesting gameplay mechanics and that's why they made them meaningless in dark souls 2, 3, and elden ring... lmao my bad, you guys are right, all 3 of those games selling more than DS1 is proof that interesting designed save systems are actually bad design and save points everywhere, or quick save is better
I forgot that Ganker is just as normie as reddit, just with anime girl mascot instead, my bad kehehe
didnt read
dont care
I played the pc versions so i can savescum whenever I want.
Cry about it.
I also don't care that you dont care lmao, it was just an objective observation. If I were to criticize you for being unintelligent, the fact you dismiss and hide from the criticism to continue acting so, doesn't invalidate the criticism, kindly have a nice day and own your words truly by never responding to me again rather than posturing you don't care while you clearly cared enough to try and reinforce how cool you think you are for savescumming, like a child that needs to validate themselves by showing mommy that they got an A lmao kehehe
I use a few saves on PC too.
Why would you torture yourself like this?
You can save anytime though.
I've been thinking lately why people think so fondly of Anniversary and the rest of the PS2 trilogy when they strip so much of the mechanical core of Tomb Raider...and I was watching a video playthrough of St.Francis Folly, and seeing all the LAU trilogy webm's...and man...I think they REALLY just nailed the overall aesthetic of Lara for the era, especially compared to AOD, Lara just looks so good, and just like you'd expect her to look, the animations look clean, albeit ultimately shallow...everything just "looks right" even while watching the gameplay footage I thought to myself "this doesn't look so bad" and so it hit me. It's the subconscious disconnect between perception and feeling. I know how and what the gameplay feels like and understand it to be ultimately unsatisfying compared to OG TR, but my brain much more easily recollects and identifies the more surface level outward appearances of the games...
So if there's one thing I'll give Crystal dynamics credit for...it's making their games look the part atleast. Even Lara's Nu-Raider design actually looks good and appropriate if you remove all the context of how her character actually acts. They didn't even nerf her breasts as much as everybody exaggerates, they're still fricking huge compared to average, let alone above average. They just fumbled the bag with the writing man...just fricking imagine what type of games we could have gotten, what the true evolution of Tomb Raider in the modern day could have been...ah man...pain :,(
What's the season pass of rise of the tomb raider?
Was Rise the one with Russian Jesus or was it Shadow?
They literally start to blur together. I ironically didn't have this problem with original TR games, but with this new trilogy, they all seem the same. If it isn't a gray cave, it's a gray industrial facility or a gray forest.
Game is 6 bucks atm in steam. DLC is 4. Those damn israelites i'm not paying nearly the same price as the game for those adds.
So fricking perfect
I just wished the devs read the Top Cow comics and based the looks and personality of the new Lara on that.
Those were such fun comics. And Lara was ALWAYS a comicbook character, so I don't know why they decided to go with this "realistic" take for her in 2013. It's because of Casino Royale and TDK, isn't it?
I just got reminded about yet another thing that pisses me off in TR4. That FRICKING tutorial level.
Dude, it's the fourth game in the franchise, I know how to run-jump, don't force this tutorial on me.
i like it because iirc you can activate a hard more for the first level by collecting all the gold skulls so if youre a big boy bad ass you can use it as a collecathon level for an immediate reward.
whats even more annoying is they dont teach you that lara can now open trap doors and shimmy around corners
>lara can now open trap doors and shimmy around corners
AND THAT SHIT WAS REALLY FRICKING IMPORTANT IN SOME SECTIONS.
I always thought that South Pacific was the best section in all classic TR games.
I don't know why.
>big breasts are offensive now
>non-linear platforming its too confusing now
>fun combat is subjective now
i didnt like nu-raider but i also didnt like uncharted. i dont want to play a movie.
>fun combat is subjective now
Look, old TR games had a lot of strenghts, but fun combat wasn't one of them. It was probably the weakest aspect of the game.
I blame the controls. It was one of those "prince of persia" style games going for aesthetics over function. The lock on controls worked fine and blasting the crap out of enemies was enjoyable (for me). It was really the controls that hindered the experience but thats part of the "combat"
i liked the combat but the controls are stiff enough to make it a chore.
>I blame the controls. It was one of those "prince of persia" style games going for aesthetics over function???
I truly will never understand how it's possible to misunderstand Tomb Raider so consistently, it's like the fans themselves don't understand the games lmao.
It's beyond me how a game that gives you so much controls (obviously too much control for the average normie brain lmao) over the playable character can be considered an "aesthetics over function game" when compared to other platformers of the time that barely had any actual platforming, and or modern games like Uncharted and literally any climbing/platforming game after it that literally plays itself... *sigh* I now understand why this series is dead lol
Its just not very fluid and it didnt help the combat. The game wasnt designed around combat. You can wax poetically about it but its not that complicated.
>tank controls in a third person shooter
its just not going to be a 10/10 shooter game but its a fantastic platformer. its part of again, why the combat didnt work so great.
The issue with combat is that it requires a lot of fricking around to just do the simplest action, so you never feel fully in control. The best viable solution is just to run around and circling instead of doing all those crazy flips that require you to push multiple buttons at once and can punish you if you misalign your jump in the heat of combat and let's say slam into a wall.
on the flip side all those precise controls that require a lot of fricking around make jumps and platforming easier and ironically make you feel more in control than when in combat.
that combat has to suffer so the platforming can work better. Fortunately the platforming and levels are good enough that the game is still worth it. i still like the combat and blasting the shit out of weak creatures is always fun
The combat is literally fine and exact same as platforming on paper, it's just that the encounter design is less interesting than the level design. At the end of the day the entire game and series is about movement and timing. No you can't get away with just running circles around your enemy because they are usually faster than you, so you need to backflip and sideflip, and roll at the right times to avoid them. The reality is this. Nobody is actually good at these games. You guys all suck at the controls. it's just that platforming is usually slower paced and will involve a lot of standing around looking for where to go next, rather than quick and on point reactions.
The only good criticism for combat is shitty hitscan enemies, and bullshit enemy encounters in tight spaces/ambushes, which for me, is enough for me to consider the combat flawed but not Inherently bad for its controls. The level design is simply better than the encounter design. That's all. Tomb Raiders levels couldn't work without its controls and vice versa. This is what I mean by "You guys don't understand the game" You criticism is so surface level and normie tier. It points the finger at the wrong thing.
None of the TR games have particularly good combat, difference is the classic TR games kept it to a minimum as most encounters were skippable or over in a jiffy. Meanwhile LAU trilogy and reboot have forced combat encounters up the ass, and they drag on way too long.
classic Tomb Raider combat is fine, and at times even good when against any enemy that isn't a hitscanning human. Some of the later games' T-REX fights are literally kino.
My point was that the Crystal Dynamics games lose by virtue of just having way too much combat anyway. Not surprising that's what they went for though. Gotta break up the monotony that is LAU and reboot 'platforming' somehow.
The problem with Hitscanners is that you have to give the player an opportunity to break line of sight and a telegraph for when the enemy is going to attack. The Tomb Raider games don't really do either of these. Thus the hitscanners are really frustrating to deal with.
They're the only Tomb Raider games worth playing
Just plug a controller into your PC and play here and decide:
http://xproger.info/projects/OpenLara/
In my opinion, Tomb Raider 1 is totally playable. It's not a great game, but it's interesting and has things you don't find in modern games anymore.
I think Open Lara is the best way to play Tomb Raider 1, even though it is not a 100% perfect replica as far as I know (but it is practically identical in practice).
emulate them with duckstation and turn on the geometry correction = best version
Overall, they do hold up. They have excellent level design and atmosphere. There are few games out there today that even come close to comparing in that area. However, I recommend using the save scumming option because there are some trial and error sections where you're very likely to die on the first try, and possibly a few more tries after that one, and if you don't save frequently you're going to lose a lot of progress. The combat in particular is just too janky imo to rely on the infrequent save points. I find that the grid based movement is great for platforming, but doesn't hold up well when you're getting shot by 3 powerful enemies at once. There are also some unpredictable death traps that don't give you much time to think and react.
Also, make sure your brightness is turned way up because keys and switches can sometimes blend into the environments.
And play the tutorial level first (Manor, accessible in the main menu). It tells you everything you need to know in 2 minutes, and you'll avoid a lot of frustration by doing it.
>However, I recommend using the save scumming option because there are some trial and error sections where you're very likely to die on the first try, and possibly a few more tries after that one, and if you don't save frequently you're going to lose a lot of progress
don't listen to this if you care about actually appreciating games in any capacity. there has never been any game I've played where savescumming doesn't destroy the experience. the entire game can be blamed on trial and error if you're bad enough, there are not THAT many trial and error areas except for maybe in the last few areas of TR1 and some of TR3. But even then, it's no where near bad enough to abandon save crystals unless you literally play videogames to just have something to do, like nearly every modern multi-player game, rather than to be immersed in the experience.
Also the save crystals are way more generous than this moron is presenting them as, there are a lot of difficult platforming sections where you'll have a save crystal literally RIGHT before the section so that you can retry it till you get it. Like the fire platforms in Palace Midas. At the end of the day I can't force you to do anything, and the mentality expressed in this post is only further proof of why games will and continually have become casualized. There are games like Dark Souls 1 that I will never forget because of the many times I tried to savescum in that game when I lost souls after something incredibly dumb I did that I saw as a small mistake. I quickly learned that I couldn't cheat the game and every action mattered more than games had ever made them before. I played the game more thoughtfully and carefully from then on.
The classic TR games arent always fair, and you won't see everything coming the first time. But it's supposed to be an unexplored and dangerous tomb meant to keep unsuspecting explorers out. That's not an excuse, it just is what it is. You experience and learn.
Ok, boomers, so which TR game was your first? Don't be shy, we are all friends here.
For me, it was TR3.
It's a lie, it was a TR5 demo. I got stuck for ages on that beginning crumbling bridge section, because I had no clue that Lara can shimmy around corners.
Why is TR3 is so strange? It has some of the highest highs of classic TR but the lows are really shitty. It just feels like a hassle to play it.
TR3 has the cutest outfits. And the most batshit insane final boss fight.
I'd say the levels looked a lot uglier
India+Pacific was just jungles and rocks
London was well London
Nevada and Antartica looked kinda cool but Antartica had that evil water so yeah.
TR3 Gold had some amazingly cool levels though with Ireland.
man, there's really something about this scale that just feels so raw and unmatched. I was watching gameplay of the LAU trilogy some while ago, and the levels technically look and are bigger, but they just don't give that same feeling of awe-inspiring scale.
it just doesn't make sense to me and I can't exactly wrap my head around why. I'm thinking it simply has something to do with the fact that the world in the classic games are a lot less "obvious" and just straight up open. There aren't obvious grooves in walls you know you'll find, just to have to look for the next obvious groove to jump to, and also you simply interact with more of the world and structures in the classic games due to grid system allowing for such meticulous designs.
I'm not entirely convinced on my reasoning though, the PS2 games REALLY do look very big, despite not feeling that way.
I wouldn't say they're ugly, the palate was just a muddier and the overall lighting was more dim compared to how much the visuals popped in 1 and 2, and even 4.
I think one of the things the modern Tomb Raider devs forgot is that while Lara is the MC, the sprawling levels with a focus on verticality and aesthetics were what made Tomb Raider such a great series. Tomb Raider without that would be like making DMC without combos/alt weapons or Final Fantasy without classes/companions.
I know exactly what you mean and I think it's because in the original every platform is climbable, even if they make Lara slide down; but in LAU/2013 you are only limited to certain ledges and platforms and they must be climbed in order. Not to mention is actually hard to come across an invisible wall in the originals, you are always limited by the terrain and slopes.
yeah, I think this is probably it for me too, it's just something you can't realize on a visual only surface level, it's something that has to be experienced and felt. Stuff like this is truly what makes videogames special and separates them from every other art form
PS1 Tomb Raider had the black void that i think added to the atmosphere, even if it was really due to technical limitations.
it's more than just about how it looks tho, because the PS2 games lack the black void and not only look bigger, but literally ARE.
whata TR3 Gold? is it like Thief Gold or sumn?
also you, do you really think TR3 levels are ugly? really? I feel like they're some of the most diverse and interesting in the series.
Your opinions on the game's visuals are invalid because you play them at a resolution which breaks the visual cohesion of the assets.
They hold up surprisingly well. The controls need some getting used to, but are very fluid and responsive, the only problems i had was my moronic brain stressing out and pressing the wrong button.
Any TRLE connoiseurs in here with recs for good levels? I checked out the TRLE hall of fame, but it's fricking MASSIVE and I'm completely unfamiliar with the community, so I have no idea what they perceive as quality.
Mists of Avalon and War of the Worlds is good.
Also, Horizons is fine? I've played a lot of custom levels back in the day, but now I can't even recall their names.
It's something to get me started. I'll probably just start picking out random levels eventually.
I could never finish these games because they were too spooky for me. I got jumpscared all the time. Angel of Darkness was the closest I got to finishing an old Tomb Raider game and I had to stop at the Resident Evil asylum level.
Unrelated, is it just me or did the old games have a surprising number of female fans? I was introduced to Tomb Raider by a female cousin. I remember going on the Tomb Raider forum and thinking there were a lot of posts that read like they were written by women.
>Unrelated, is it just me or did the old games have a surprising number of female fans?
Yeah, back in the day the only two games females played were Tomb Raider (if she wanted to be considerd a hardcore gamer) and Sims 1.
It's almost like... women don't actually mind a sexy femme fatale protag
They literally never did, up until media told them they should.
Maybe. They're all under a dollar for god sakes just buy and play them.
How's the PC port of Underworld?
Servicable.
The DLC are still missing.
How good is the Steam version? How much do I need to fix for it to be playable?
just pirate it. then find some source ports to get it running. the steam versions are broken.
Not much, 1 and 2 have the Automated Fix which is just patch and play
my only memory of TR3 is that scene in the treehouse where you find that dude with 1 leg off and he asks Lara if she is searching a place to pee
For me, it was that dude in the London section ranting about no longer having a face.
In this weird Jamaican accent.
Those games went places.
Why is this thread so tsundere?
in what way?
no
only the non-Core games are good.
get Anniversary / Legend / Underworld
as for modern games with classic Lara, get the two "Lara Croft and the X" games too
They are kinda janky to be honest.
Loved them as a kid, but compared to games now, they play like shit.
frick off back to your ubisoft slop, shit-eater
Why did you do it anons?
They were all fine from my memory but I remember not liking the first one. Maybe I was too young to enjoy it but i hated the controls
you can literally play these games with one hand if you play on keyboard ;););)winkwink11one
it would be even harder than it already is to control Lara though, and borderline impossible in Atlantis for TR1
i was making a very tasteful coomer joke but it isnt harder to control lara at all if you set up the buttons in a specific way. the way i jave it set up on my keyboard is actually amazingly intuitive. idk about tr atlantis but i just recently beat venice nearly all one handed w a keyboard.
>TR1
Aged like milk from a graphical standpoint but has an absolute kino atmosphere. The tombs/caves are ominous and downright scary at times (The centaur jump scare in Tomb of Tihocan scared 8 year old me shitless) and combat is mostly focused on monsters rather than people which I prefer.
>TR2
This one trades a lot of the ancient tombs for more modern areas like Venice and the underwater shipwreck and while I like them, I did miss the more historical locations. More modern areas also means that there are far more human enemies than in the first game which I wasn't a fan of. However, most of this is forgiven because the Tibet section of the game is peak TR. Barkhang Monastery is my favourite level in the series and tombs underneath it are great as well. Sadly the final area isn't as good as Atlantis.
>TR3
My uncle who lent me the games as a kid said "good luck" when he gave me TR3 and it quickly became apparent why. It has a solid mix of natural and manmade environments but unfortunately it's ruined by some tragic level design. Like why is the second level of the game also one of the longest? Why are there so many bullshit traps that you'll never see coming without a guide? I will say though that the game does have my favourite final boss of the classic series and it did give me my favourite track in the series. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9ItrdOmfjQ
>TR4
This one actually feels like an evolution of the series rather than just more of the same. The flashback sections were interesting and this was the first time we learned more about Lara which would grow to be both a blessing and a curse. My only gripe is that the locales lack variety like the previous games but other than
that I think it's a solid entry.
>TR5
Never played but I'd like to one day.
>DO NOT DEVIATE FROM INSTRUCTION DEAR LARA
van bran was based
TR3 is such bullshit. It's the only game I've ever played where the mandatory capture sequence literally confiscates all your weapons, ammo, medkits and you literally never get them back and half of them can never be acquired again.
In a non-linear game at that so it's a massive frick you from the devs if you go to Nevada last. You fricking gorilla Black folk give me back my rocket launcher and 23 medkits I worked hard for that shit.
looks like I'm playing TR3 right after I'm done with 1 then
>In a non-linear game at that so it's a massive frick you from the devs if you go to Nevada last
wait what??? I haven't gotten to TR3 yet but from my experience with 1 and 2, I thought levels themselves were non linear, but progress from level to level was linear? AKA Peru, Greece, Egypt etc.
Which versions are the best to get for PC? some say GOG, some say steam.