I think so, in Caligula Effect 2, besides the bosses, the game only had like 3 Digihead mobs. The guy, the guy with tentacles and the girl with the speakers.
BoTW felt like 3 enemies, the little goblin shit, big goblin shit and lizalfos.
You encounter those thing literally everywhere. It certainly didn't feel like 20
BoTW is some kind of CIA psyop to delude the world into liking the exact same thing they spent 10 years b***hing about and shitting on (ubisoft open world design)
I'm the last person alive that can see this fricking bullshit for what it is, BoTW is just the generic Ubisoft formula everyone complained about but suddenly it's a 10/10 when the CIA says so.
I fear for my life now, I truly do. I know they won't let anyone see through their bullshit and live
>Ubisoft open world design, but it's good when Nintendo does it
Didn't literally everyone said this when BOTW came out? You literally climb towers to unlock the map, it's not a hard comparison to make.
>BoTW is some kind of CIA psyop to delude the world into liking the exact same thing they spent 10 years b***hing about and shitting on (ubisoft open world design)
Well, it didn't work on me. Nor did Elden Ring work on me either. Open world always has and always will be shit.
Cool that Twilight Princess has that many enemies. It really is a great game, only mired by a few annoying moments of padding in specific places. Anyway, Nintendo knows that whatever they produce will earn bookoo bucks from their rabid and slathering frothing at the mouth mindless fanbase, so there's no reason to change, and in fact they can work much less for the same effect. They're really just coasting on brand recognition at this point. Not to say they weren't doing that for the last 30 years or whatever, but at least they had a standard. At some point, the Nintendo Seal of Quality™ lost all meaning.
It's disingenuous when certain enemies in BOTW/TOTK can do more than most of the enemies combined in earlier games, but it's still pathetic on TOTK part for not introducing more
I still think the real problem with BOTW combat wasn't the enemy variety, but the enviorments you fight them in. Copy paste skulls with the occasional multi floored fort. Shit was fun again when you got to more deliberately designed segments like some of the Ubisoft towers, the one hit annihilator, and the later Trial of the Sword rooms.
Now why did Nintendo decide to make 1/6th of the Shrines the same miniboss instead of unique combat trials? Who fricking knows.
This image is so dumb since everyone who's actually played the previous Zelda games knows that the AI behavior between most enemies in the older games is pretty much the same, making them functionally the same type of enemy, especially the small enemies. It all pales in comparison when looking at the difference in enemy behavior between fighting an bokoblin vs lizalfos or vs a lynel in BOTW
Massive cope, friends. Maybe you have a point in saying that enemy AI in general has become more complex that what was on offer in games like Twilight Princes in 2000-fricking-6 but to act like people don't have a point when they say >well, why can't we have a larger variety of more complex enemies in our modern Zelda
is a bit disingenuous itself, don't you think?
I'm not saying there isn't a point to be made for a greater variety of enemies, I'm just saying the wide variety of enemies in the past is looked back upon with nostalgia goggles. They were great for aesthetic purposes but not that impactful gameplay-wise, since half of the enemy roster in TP listed there dies in 1 hit. I will say I wish we had more large scale bosses like Twilight Princess, those were some of my favorite Zelda bosses
>but not that impactful gameplay-wise
Strong disagree. They were simpler sure, but they served their purpose in the game far better than anything in BotW or TotK. They were hurdles that often doubled as puzzles you had to figure out. You needed to overcome them and their variety prevented them from getting dull. Now you're better off just skipping everything and you can easily do so. None of the neat little details with AI matter in any meaningful way.
This is a stupid argument because it would be like including ganondorf 8 times because he has two phases and each phase uses the same 4 weapons. Being able to swap weapons does not make him a new enemy with each change.
This image is so dumb since everyone who's actually played the previous Zelda games knows that the AI behavior between most enemies in the older games is pretty much the same, making them functionally the same type of enemy, especially the small enemies. It all pales in comparison when looking at the difference in enemy behavior between fighting an bokoblin vs lizalfos or vs a lynel in BOTW
As companies and teams get more bloated the efficiency drops dramatically.
Dev times in general are disgustingly bloated now a days. Course correction will never happen because the normalgays like it this way.
Honestly, if fricking slimes and bats are included then Wolves should also be since they attack link if there is at least 3 of them around at the same time
They are their own enemy and if you fail to kill them quick enough they will just frick off and not spawn phantom.
Honestly, if fricking slimes and bats are included then Wolves should also be since they attack link if there is at least 3 of them around at the same time
Add flying redeads to the list, they have a completely unique moveset in comparison to the normal ones
but they're just an aspect of phantom ganon. That's like saying Gyorg and his smaller fish in Majoras Mask are two separate enemies. Or Odowala and his insects.
I just told you why, they exist without Phantom since if you fail the DPS check they won't spawn anything. They also aren't around when Phantom is around, unlike the fish and the insects that are only around for as long as those bosses are around
>releases the same game over and over with incremental improvements each time, sometimes with some experimental or stylistic changes >nobody cares because video games by their very nature are iterative and the core mechanics of the games are, more or less, refined with each iteration
It's more they're too distracted by trivial details now.
Shit that could fly with OoT just simply cannot be ignored in the modern age.
They're doing stuff by hand that really should be done by the engine or through AI/procedural generation. Small shit.
It doesn't help having companies ran by 70 yr olds who do things by hand.
That said, procedural generation won't be as good looking as programmer designed and worked content. It will be buggy and ugly for many decades. AI generation might speed things up, but then you're dealing with how it thinks it should design things... could cause havok if AI really does become intelligent enough to add it's own quirks to the artistry (it is weird we live in the future where we actually have to think about AI and their feelings already... forget sentience you need to know how it works in it's "bones" let alone something differential).
But maybe it's holding back that development.
I think a lot of this world could have been automated better, just the cleanup to make sure it's working.
if you count all humanoids that are just NPC movesets (non-unique/mounted) as a single enemy- since they're just wearing different armor/weapons with the same base AI- and disregard passive wildlife, then that list is
>humanoids >stone cluster >imp >kaiden on horse >land octopus >land squirt >chariot >alabaster lord >pumpkin head >ruenbear >demi-human >wolf >miranda >rat >bat >giant crab >slime >skeleton >jellyfish >starcaller >troll >golem
so that's 22 total enemies
yeah that's just barely squeaking ahead of TotK's enemy variety, just for one area
Remove those and the list still edges BOTW/TOTK out.
And it's just the tutorial area.
What does TOTK have in the tutorial? Just constructs and wildlife.
if you count all humanoids that are just NPC movesets (non-unique/mounted) as a single enemy- since they're just wearing different armor/weapons with the same base AI- and disregard passive wildlife, then that list is
>humanoids >stone cluster >imp >kaiden on horse >land octopus >land squirt >chariot >alabaster lord >pumpkin head >ruenbear >demi-human >wolf >miranda >rat >bat >giant crab >slime >skeleton >jellyfish >starcaller >troll >golem
so that's 22 total enemies
yeah that's just barely squeaking ahead of TotK's enemy variety, just for one area
I truly don't fricking understand
what was Nintendo doing for 6 years
there were hundreds of people working on this project
people who's entire job it was to model, animate and code enemies
wtf did they do
thats like 1 enemy PER YEAR
Why couldn't they add in small, simple enemies, to various areas? Just copy/paste the elemental/physics interactions of existing small enemies like chuchus. Put in: >leevers >skulltula >tektites >freezard >poe >peahat >torch slug
and then just swap the models for high level enemies to turn lizalfos -> dinolfos, etc etc
We'll never know, because Nintendo is massively secretive. I have to assume Covid hit the Zelda staff hard, or something. This game probably was meant for 2020, or 2021.
I am suspecting they intended to release this in 2020, but then covid made them panic and hit them hard.
Japan was in hard lockdown longer than most countries too.
It does not feel like a game that took 6 years and I think covid is to blame, clearly.
Nintendo is fricking lazy. Look how long it takes them just to release new MARIO games. The formula never fricking changes but the last 3D mario we got was in 2018.
NTA, but they're a different studio. A different company. Nintendo may very well have just had shit organization, incapable of developing in a pandemic situation.
Nintendo is too big to have properly coped with covid.
Most big corps shat the bed because of covid.
The small corps managed far far better because centralised megacorps are an impractical corporate structure. We've known this for well over 100 years and yet we still do this.
Why?
Poor capital management in our economy.
Megacorps still survive the bad times because they're just too big to fail. Capitalism is literally destroying the economy and has been doing so since the 1880s... it's just been burning the midnight oil for 150 years now through the MiC and various other hacks to the economic architecture.
Honestly just needs a better administration full stop... but they're just a protection racket now. :^)
>what was Nintendo doing for 6 years
I got about 20 hours in and I honestly have no fricking clue. This could have been pumped out within 3 years as some big expansion pack. I don't know why it took 6.
It's actually crazy nu-Zelda has 20 enemies. It feels like it has 5.
no, consumers are getting dumber
They’re realizing they can make the same money doing less work because of .
Second post best post
The rest of the enemies are the SNOYS here
I think so, in Caligula Effect 2, besides the bosses, the game only had like 3 Digihead mobs. The guy, the guy with tentacles and the girl with the speakers.
BoTW felt like 3 enemies, the little goblin shit, big goblin shit and lizalfos.
You encounter those thing literally everywhere. It certainly didn't feel like 20
BoTW is some kind of CIA psyop to delude the world into liking the exact same thing they spent 10 years b***hing about and shitting on (ubisoft open world design)
I'm the last person alive that can see this fricking bullshit for what it is, BoTW is just the generic Ubisoft formula everyone complained about but suddenly it's a 10/10 when the CIA says so.
I fear for my life now, I truly do. I know they won't let anyone see through their bullshit and live
That's like saying Persona 4 is the same as SMT4 because they both have similar gameplay
Don't be a moron
Stop being disingenuous, you fricking know what the ubisoft open world template looks like and you know BoTW is an exact copy.
Shut the frick up moron
I can see you glowing through the screen. Your mind tricks don't work on me.
>Ubisoft open world design, but it's good when Nintendo does it
Didn't literally everyone said this when BOTW came out? You literally climb towers to unlock the map, it's not a hard comparison to make.
>another ubidrone mad that nintendo made a game that was actually good out of their shitty formula in their first try
Seething!
>BoTW is some kind of CIA psyop to delude the world into liking the exact same thing they spent 10 years b***hing about and shitting on (ubisoft open world design)
Well, it didn't work on me. Nor did Elden Ring work on me either. Open world always has and always will be shit.
theres like 4 or 5 variations of each enemy, + colors, shills really tryna take down game of the year LOL
captcha MGGVM, MGGVM your head shills
>Are game developers getting lazier?
Yes, and you'll still buy it like a good little paypiggy
No, but Nintendo sure as hell is. Why wouldn't they? Everyone fellates them and buys it all anyway.
TP Chads we stay winning
Cool that Twilight Princess has that many enemies. It really is a great game, only mired by a few annoying moments of padding in specific places. Anyway, Nintendo knows that whatever they produce will earn bookoo bucks from their rabid and slathering frothing at the mouth mindless fanbase, so there's no reason to change, and in fact they can work much less for the same effect. They're really just coasting on brand recognition at this point. Not to say they weren't doing that for the last 30 years or whatever, but at least they had a standard. At some point, the Nintendo Seal of Quality™ lost all meaning.
It's disingenuous when certain enemies in BOTW/TOTK can do more than most of the enemies combined in earlier games, but it's still pathetic on TOTK part for not introducing more
>certain enemies in BOTW/TOTK can do more than most of the enemies combined in earlier games
Bokoblins burning sticks in fire was fun the first time
I still think the real problem with BOTW combat wasn't the enemy variety, but the enviorments you fight them in. Copy paste skulls with the occasional multi floored fort. Shit was fun again when you got to more deliberately designed segments like some of the Ubisoft towers, the one hit annihilator, and the later Trial of the Sword rooms.
Now why did Nintendo decide to make 1/6th of the Shrines the same miniboss instead of unique combat trials? Who fricking knows.
Massive cope, friends. Maybe you have a point in saying that enemy AI in general has become more complex that what was on offer in games like Twilight Princes in 2000-fricking-6 but to act like people don't have a point when they say
>well, why can't we have a larger variety of more complex enemies in our modern Zelda
is a bit disingenuous itself, don't you think?
I'm not saying there isn't a point to be made for a greater variety of enemies, I'm just saying the wide variety of enemies in the past is looked back upon with nostalgia goggles. They were great for aesthetic purposes but not that impactful gameplay-wise, since half of the enemy roster in TP listed there dies in 1 hit. I will say I wish we had more large scale bosses like Twilight Princess, those were some of my favorite Zelda bosses
>but not that impactful gameplay-wise
Strong disagree. They were simpler sure, but they served their purpose in the game far better than anything in BotW or TotK. They were hurdles that often doubled as puzzles you had to figure out. You needed to overcome them and their variety prevented them from getting dull. Now you're better off just skipping everything and you can easily do so. None of the neat little details with AI matter in any meaningful way.
Recolors and the same enemy with a different enemy aren't new enemies you coping moron. Stop trying to push this narrative.
>no no this one enemy can use a spear then pick up a sword if it gets knocked over so it counts as two!
This is a stupid argument because it would be like including ganondorf 8 times because he has two phases and each phase uses the same 4 weapons. Being able to swap weapons does not make him a new enemy with each change.
Wouldn't this image work better towards your point if it was ordered chronologically instead of by number of enemies?
Why have 50 similar enemies if you can do 20 unique enemies?
This image is so dumb since everyone who's actually played the previous Zelda games knows that the AI behavior between most enemies in the older games is pretty much the same, making them functionally the same type of enemy, especially the small enemies. It all pales in comparison when looking at the difference in enemy behavior between fighting an bokoblin vs lizalfos or vs a lynel in BOTW
all the humanoid enemies in botw/totk are essentially the same
they just have a few minor moveset differences, a few different idle behaviors
now look at a game like elden ring
bats, hawks, boars, crabs, dogs, zombies, octopi, sprouts, rats, slimes, jellyfish, exiles, demi humans, exiles, golems, imps, miners, trolls, soldiers, sellswords, skeletons, jars, gravity lords, misbegotten, nobles, mage head orbs, knights, stone clusters, harpies, runebears, commoners, banished knights, omens, slugs, flame chariots, monks, marionettes, sorcerers, ancestral followers, claymen, snails, vulgar militia, silver tears, fallen hawks, crucible knights, ants, swordstress, malformed star, shade knights, basilisks, azulamen, wormfaces, battlemages, celebrants, avionette, wraiths, albinaurics, chariots, revenants, pumpkin heads, perfumers, gargoyles, virgins, frenzied villagers, black knives, pages, bloodhounds, rot priests, starcallers, thorn sorcerers, crayfish, monster dogs, monster crows, envoys, duelists, fingercreepers, prelates, lions, man serpents, nomads, nox monk, trolls, dragons, cleanrot knight and tree spirits
As companies and teams get more bloated the efficiency drops dramatically.
Dev times in general are disgustingly bloated now a days. Course correction will never happen because the normalgays like it this way.
Consumers are getting dumber, I mean blacker and browner and more colorful and diverse and stronger.
No, but shitposters are.
This is still missing the gloom hands for ToTK.
Honestly, if fricking slimes and bats are included then Wolves should also be since they attack link if there is at least 3 of them around at the same time
All fauna run away from him at the mere sounds of his sprinting, so I wouldn't count them.
then so should bees
but then you better go pad out all the other games
notice how OOT does not include:
>fire walls
>fake doors
>flying tiles/jars
>blade traps
>spiked logs
>guillotines
>spinning reapers
etc etc
Wolves can't be targeted like enemies in BotW. They do not register as enemies when you photograph them. Ergo they are not enemies
aren't gloam hands just part of phantom ganon?
You're right, they are.
I don't like Souls shit but there's more differences between each of From's games than BotW and TotK.
I dont play videogames made for children (nintendo) or games for redditors (fromsoft)
They are their own enemy and if you fail to kill them quick enough they will just frick off and not spawn phantom.
Add flying redeads to the list, they have a completely unique moveset in comparison to the normal ones
but they're just an aspect of phantom ganon. That's like saying Gyorg and his smaller fish in Majoras Mask are two separate enemies. Or Odowala and his insects.
I just told you why, they exist without Phantom since if you fail the DPS check they won't spawn anything. They also aren't around when Phantom is around, unlike the fish and the insects that are only around for as long as those bosses are around
>releases the same game over and over
>nobody cares because its wholesome reddit company
TotK is more of a rehash than anything they put out
>releases the same game over and over with incremental improvements each time, sometimes with some experimental or stylistic changes
>nobody cares because video games by their very nature are iterative and the core mechanics of the games are, more or less, refined with each iteration
homie they literally copy gameplay nearly 1:1 from one title to the next
The irony of you saying this in defense of totk.
Time frame matters, look at the release dates between FROM games.
no consooomers are getting dumber. even more so after the scamdemic, the vaxtards lost 20 iq points
It's more they're too distracted by trivial details now.
Shit that could fly with OoT just simply cannot be ignored in the modern age.
They're doing stuff by hand that really should be done by the engine or through AI/procedural generation. Small shit.
It doesn't help having companies ran by 70 yr olds who do things by hand.
That said, procedural generation won't be as good looking as programmer designed and worked content. It will be buggy and ugly for many decades. AI generation might speed things up, but then you're dealing with how it thinks it should design things... could cause havok if AI really does become intelligent enough to add it's own quirks to the artistry (it is weird we live in the future where we actually have to think about AI and their feelings already... forget sentience you need to know how it works in it's "bones" let alone something differential).
Crafted by hand is still miles better than any procedural generation. Miles better.
Nintendo knows that and wants their game to be quality. Not procedurally generated minecraft slop.
But maybe it's holding back that development.
I think a lot of this world could have been automated better, just the cleanup to make sure it's working.
I don't listen to anyone who thinks wind water, tp and ss weren't complete shit and responsible for almost ruining zelda.
Zero respect for these slop suckers
https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Creatures+and+Enemies
From is carrying the entire gaming... no, ENTERTAINMENT industry, on their backs.
Idk but the less enemies there are, the more focus it gives porn artists to use those specific ones when they defeat and then rape the characters.
Limgrave literally has more enemy types, bossses, weapon and spells than the whole of TOTK.
The only thing TOTK has going for it are HL2 physics puzzles, some side quests and 4 average size dungeons.
>Deer
>Eagle
>Turtle
>Sheep
That's misleading as frick, if we count the fauna from ER then it's only fair to count the 80 or so animals that roam around in TOTK
Okay. Remove those four. Still more in ER.
There are more than 4 animals on that list, you don't care though because you probably didn't even read it and just use it as shitposting material
See
Nintendo are just fricking lazy.
>sheep
>deer
>squirels
>hawks
>owls
>turtles
>small crab
>boars
Remove those and the list still edges BOTW/TOTK out.
And it's just the tutorial area.
What does TOTK have in the tutorial? Just constructs and wildlife.
if you count all humanoids that are just NPC movesets (non-unique/mounted) as a single enemy- since they're just wearing different armor/weapons with the same base AI- and disregard passive wildlife, then that list is
>humanoids
>stone cluster
>imp
>kaiden on horse
>land octopus
>land squirt
>chariot
>alabaster lord
>pumpkin head
>ruenbear
>demi-human
>wolf
>miranda
>rat
>bat
>giant crab
>slime
>skeleton
>jellyfish
>starcaller
>troll
>golem
so that's 22 total enemies
yeah that's just barely squeaking ahead of TotK's enemy variety, just for one area
>4 average size dungeons
I wish. They're still divine beast type affairs. In some ways they're even worse.
It's easier to make a sprite than a 3d model, who knew
Huh. You actually DO unlock an ability to attack without any weapon from the Yiga's Earthwake scroll.
I truly don't fricking understand
what was Nintendo doing for 6 years
there were hundreds of people working on this project
people who's entire job it was to model, animate and code enemies
wtf did they do
thats like 1 enemy PER YEAR
Why couldn't they add in small, simple enemies, to various areas? Just copy/paste the elemental/physics interactions of existing small enemies like chuchus. Put in:
>leevers
>skulltula
>tektites
>freezard
>poe
>peahat
>torch slug
and then just swap the models for high level enemies to turn lizalfos -> dinolfos, etc etc
Because... nintendo switch.
More enemies means more space and processing.
We'll never know, because Nintendo is massively secretive. I have to assume Covid hit the Zelda staff hard, or something. This game probably was meant for 2020, or 2021.
I am suspecting they intended to release this in 2020, but then covid made them panic and hit them hard.
Japan was in hard lockdown longer than most countries too.
It does not feel like a game that took 6 years and I think covid is to blame, clearly.
How did FROMsoft do it then?
They literally made Sekiro, Elden Ring and Armord Core 6 inthe same 2017-2023 timeframe.
Nintendo is fricking lazy. Look how long it takes them just to release new MARIO games. The formula never fricking changes but the last 3D mario we got was in 2018.
NTA, but they're a different studio. A different company. Nintendo may very well have just had shit organization, incapable of developing in a pandemic situation.
Nintendo is too big to have properly coped with covid.
Most big corps shat the bed because of covid.
The small corps managed far far better because centralised megacorps are an impractical corporate structure. We've known this for well over 100 years and yet we still do this.
Why?
Poor capital management in our economy.
Megacorps still survive the bad times because they're just too big to fail. Capitalism is literally destroying the economy and has been doing so since the 1880s... it's just been burning the midnight oil for 150 years now through the MiC and various other hacks to the economic architecture.
Honestly just needs a better administration full stop... but they're just a protection racket now. :^)
Sekiro is not a covid game.
Never said it was, I'm just counting the 2017-2023 timeframe that took between BOTW and TOTK
By being 30-40 years younger than them as a team.
>what was Nintendo doing for 6 years
I got about 20 hours in and I honestly have no fricking clue. This could have been pumped out within 3 years as some big expansion pack. I don't know why it took 6.