are there any MMOs with actually robust PvP? Why the hell is "PK"ing such a common topic in these MMO anime when it feels like this style is system is relatively rare? Are there different MMOs in east Asia with actually predatory PvP?
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no
>are there any MMOs with actually robust PvP?
Older MMOs did but the combat was very, very fricking slow. I think the closest thing to "good" pvp was Vanilla Gw2 but it was ruined by moronic devs and clown class balance.
>Why the hell is "PK"ing such a common topic in these MMO anime when it feels like this style is system is relatively rare?
In older MMOs, world pvp was abused. It's unironically very dishonorable to the Japs might be fixated on that aspect. Many players would take up the mantle of police or hero and hunt PKers back in the day.
>Are there different MMOs in east Asia with actually predatory PvP?
Yes, but all of them are shitty p2w korean games. At this point, MMOs need to "die" before a good one can be made. Modern MMOs are the worst they have ever been.
>world pvp
GFD I fricking miss global PK servers.
God damn it nothing will replace that adrenaline.
>At this point, MMOs need to "die" before a good one can be made
Already happened. The only MMO I've seen people play in the last 5 years is FF14
pvp in asheron's call darktide server was best I remember.
The entire server was PVP, but clans self organized into pk or anti-pk. Devs even played along by assuming the role of PK gods who'd occasionally going on rampages and just kill everyone in a random town for fun.
The anti-pk clans would patrol regions to create safe zones so new players could get gear and lvl up, except for the starter areas where everyone logged in upon creating a new character. Those were always a free for all blood bath zones that higher lvl players seldom bothered with cause it wasn't worth their time. Newbie zones were just newbies kiling each other all day long.
fuark that sounds so fun. where did this soul go
When it became about clout chasing and the raid skinnerbox gear treadmill. Leveling and other aspects of modern MMOS, including PvP, don't matter. Only getting to max level and raiding so you can afk and show off.
FFXI is the worst example you can give in that image
MMOs without PvP are way more rare than MMOs with PvP, your whole premise is wrong.
they all have some flavor of variety of PVP but it's always milktoast.
Darktide was the only time I've ever seen true pvp, with no safe zones and no way to turn it off, and no mercy. Frick just going into town to sell stuff to a vendor was a battle for life and death. In many respects it was more brutal than Rust.
Total anarchy with full loot pvp is pretty dumb, even the anime in question has restrictions on pvp, towns are safe zones and pvpers get heavily penalized for killing players. Again the premise is wrong.
>pretty dumb
>the premise is wrong
yes it's wrong, and that's exactly what motivated people self organized into anti-pk clans.
It forced players to work together and create their own system of neighborhood watch for making safe zones. It created a new form of player engagement that no other game today ever will be capable of replicating because they're too busy holding the player's hand and building guard rails to force the player to do exactly and only what the devs want.
I've heard of people in PUBG creating their own player run stores with bodyguards to enforce "store policy" but that's the most of this sort of behavior I've ever seen since darktide.
see
It is dumb because it won't sell, the majority of players don't want to deal with the constant threat of getting slain by a player way higher level than them and organizing a police force to deal with the problem. MMOs need to have players and make money.
Players rather have systems in place to deal with these things and have places where they can feel safe, either toggling a flag when they're ready to fight or travel to a designated lawless PvP area. If the game needs to organize anti-PK squads then there should be a system in place to do that with its own rewards.
No mega-clans terrorizing the population by making them unable to play the game, this shit isn't novel enough for it to be appealing anymore. People want games with rules they can rely on.
Darktide?
>are there any MMOs with actually robust PvP?
No.
>Why the hell is "PK"ing such a common topic in these MMO anime when it feels like this style is system is relatively rare?
For the same reason MMO animes have stuff like weird, obtuse mechanics you'd only seen in ARGs, self-evolving algorithms that give the player special powers in specific situations, specific unknown mechanics in the age of datamining and other bullshit. It's Science Fiction anon.
>Are there different MMOs in east Asia with actually predatory PvP?
Probably? Doesn't there people really like the whole "fighting with their wallet" kind of thing? At least China?
So... WoW Ascension High-Risk?
Modern MMOs don't have real pvp. It's all dogshit.
most modern mmos have an arena of some sort
what's a real pvp?
fighting games
these brazilians and russians are too comfortable with thier keyboard faceroll combat in their shitty f2p griefer mmos
Devs can't ever manage to balance PvE and PvP elements re equipment and skills
Early WoW did that just fine, it was when they started balancing pvp/pve separately that everything went wrong.
grand chase was fricking incredible back in the day, genuenely great PvP that had a lot of tech the community figured out with all the characters and each of their jobs, and the meta was quite diverse with many things being viable
even the korean P2W stuff was generally policed by the community since rooms had set gear ratings, or naked, no pet, no OP classes if a patch had some unbalanced bullshit or whatever other self imposed requirements
the game really went to shit in my eyes with the introduction of the Dio character and talent trees which turned the interesting kit each character had to play around into "press button to do the thing" bullshit
Not wintrading and RMTing in arenas while loaded up on addons that's for sure.
this asshat is actually looking for competitive pvp in a character progression genre
>Why the hell is "PK"ing such a common topic in these MMO anime when it feels like this style is system is relatively rare?
It provides drama for the plot
I like this anime so far, scratches some of that dot.hack itch.
>"character progression genre"
Nah, you just want to get carried through a raid, or worse, use addons to do it for you, and then afk and act self important. You don't want to explore the world. You don't want to craft. You don't want to find secret puzzles or collect artifacts. You only care about pets and mounts that you get from raids or things with prestige, so collecting those is out of the question too. You'll use cheat addons for a fricking mario party minigame event just to feel superior to others. You don't want a challenge, You don't even want to play the game. You want attention.
its not surprising that no one responds to a good post in this Black personisraelite shithole board
mmos were only about gameplay in the endgame, and then no one gave a shit about it and just looked up a recipe for success to get the "reward" asap
>lots of korean MMO's are like this and everything Ganker always asks for
>"uhm... but they have a "nitpick problem" so therefor I rather play WoW!
>shit balance
>grind for 10000 hours to reach the start-line (while paypigging half your salary or else triple the time required)
>P2W cash shop
>upgrade gear system is RNG
>the "people" playing are the trashiest scum alive
Every single KMMO is like this.
>I have to GRIND in an MMORPG?
There are no valid reasons to have grinding in 2024, grinding belongs to the old guard of MMOs and it's one of the primary reasons why everyone is hopping over to more popular genres.
So don't play a fricking MMORPG or talk about MMORPG's if you don't want any grinding when that's the entire point of the genre.
Why even enter this thread?
>the whole point of MMORPGs is to grind
What the frick is wrong with you?
That's the RPG in MMORPG
RPG means role-playing game not grind, there are plenty of RPGs without grind. The actual point of MMORPGs is to play an RPG with a massive amount of players online, the grinding aspect is outdated as frick.
despite the trips you are ultimately mistaken because I know that you intended to sacrifice any and all player/character choice in favor of microtransaction and "loadout" because you view having to spend any amount of time with the game to be grinding. You want to spawn in, queue for combat, get drive-thru ERP and quit because you actually hate other people and the game and that's why you want there to be less of it
Sounds like incremental games would be more to your taste, go play Melvor Idle instead of shitting up MMO discussion. It's refined the "entire point of the genre" by removing the rest of the bloat from RuneScape.
>t's one of the primary reasons why everyone is hopping over to more popular genres.
Ah of course, the populated fields of "no-grinding" like battlepass-slop, die-until-you-farm-enough-persistent-upgrade-to-get-further-likes, and waifu-slots. Really making your point, aren't you dumbBlack person?
He is genuinely underaged and moronic, i'm sure.
>Ah of course, the populated fields of "no-grinding" like battlepass-slop, die-until-you-farm-enough-persistent-upgrade-to-get-further-likes, and waifu-slots. Really making your point, aren't you dumbBlack person?
not him but these both are a dumb comparision
>battle pass
can be done easily by playing 1 or 2 hours every day for 1 or 2 months (while most battle pass games gets a new season every 3 or 4 months), traditional grinding was way way longer than that, beside these are only cosmetics 99% of the time.
>waifu-slots
gacha games arent designed to be grinded, they are designed to spend money on it, they arent there to let people grind for thousands of hours to get what you want, but rather to give up after a few hundreds of hours and spend money on it, its literally impossible to max out on everything without spending money on most gacha games
>>lots of korean MMO's are like this and everything Ganker always asks for
Literally point me to anything not Black Dessert or B&S. I can't find anything that isn't about rushing to end-game and whaling for fashion content.
Oh you reminded me of that anime. I watched the first 4 episode with a friend and forgot about it later on when he ghosted me
It used to be possible in nearly every MMO back in the day. I want to say the point where the shift began was around 2005, when you started seeing games gravitate towards restricting or removing ganking.
It is still possible today, just look at Albion. Just separate the game world into non-pvp zones and pvp-zones, some with full loot pvp and others where you get to keep your items. Add some risk/reward for entering these zones and boom, you have a good pvp mmo.
I only know of the anime because of the hot rabbit guy.
grinding takes no skill. Doing tasks to improve the stats of your character means it's a character progression game. The gameplay is low APM and reflexes are unimportant
>Why the hell is "PK"ing such a common topic
because moster "PKers" actually suck at pvp when you fight back
Runescape is the only MMO holding up unapologetic PVP
it's fun protecting people in the RS wilderness trying to do chaos altar, morons that camp there don't actually know how to fight someone who has gear
not really, because nobody actually plays them
most of the problem boils down to how power scaling typically works in MMOs, where another player has an insurmountable advantage over you simply from playing more- higher level, stronger gear, etc
what ends up happening in most of these games is that bored high-level players just go camp in low-level zones, which keeps new players from getting into the game at all, which ultimately hurts the game's population growth
>30 million players
>no one found/beat the secret uber bosses until mc started with the game
nice writing you've got there, nips
it's made for children, bro
"robust" PVP usually means "I want to kill others and cause them to lose significant time, resources or others' and is only fun for those who basically want to stomp noobs and troll - these same types typically run away from a fair fight because that's not what they're seeking. Anyway, these systems are not fun and end up being disruptive where the most grindy frick you players get to a level of power they can often go more or less unchallenged and then everyone quits because its not fun, which means even the PKs quit because they have nobody to grind. Yes, it used to be more prevalent especially in Eastern MMOs, mostly predatory on both time and money levels. However its basically a game mechanic that is self limiting to the playerbase and kills them off.
Ironically, the only 2 MMOs that i saw were based on PVP and actually thought it through were
>Shadowbane
which was before its time. Trying t have giant siege fights when some people were literally on 56K wasn't a winning proposition. The tech wasn't there yet and the game was in other ways barebones but it was a good idea.
>Crowfall
Shadowbane's spiritual successor which COULD have been good but they made so many early mistakes that they fricked things up so royally the game basically closed. Their design was good in that splitting out between "eternal kingdoms" where players could build their/their guilds settlements with resources, resupply, and do other RP and town stuff that can't be destroyed yet only have the lowest tier of materials available to gather vs "campaign worlds" with timed maps with different rulesets (2 faction, 3 faction, FFA for those outside your group and/or guilds etc) where you can claim resource nodes, build fortresses to defend them etc. Eventually they'd time out in a fixed period so it isn't like someone can sit forever on a node unchallenged; the whole world would fall and close, but others would be vailable. Its a pity end, as it designed a workable PVP based system.
>these same types typically run away from a fair fight because that's not what they're seeking.
That's literally what 99% of MMO players want for PvP, it's the reason why Skill-Based Matchmaking is so despised in other games.
If PvP really worked like animes, it would definitely be better. Because in anime you will see people 50 levels below the other and trading blows and pulling a win with a specific mechanic or consumable. In MMOs people would fricking bawl their eyes out about how it's worthless to have levels and how items trivialize PvP.
I once saw 3 level 35 dwarfs kill a level 60 in WoW using an engineering item called the gnomish death-ray. It was pretty funny.
Pvp in MMOs would never work like animes because in anime everyone is stupid and knows nothing about the game they're playing somehow
I play Black Desert
I don't agree with anon that mmos shouldn't have grinding, but it does get less appealing as you age. Anytime I think about getting into 07scape I remember I will have to pump thousands of hours into the game again and I can't be assed to play a game like another job. If I could just use my original account it would be less of a slog, but repeating everything to get to end game again is a lot.
Gotta find the happy medium, too much grind is a slog. Too little and you just end up with a raidshit MMO like WoW or 14.
>will never get a big open world MMO, with lovingly crafted landscapes, vistas and places to explore vanilla Gw2
>will never get to run around as a roaming beatmaster and tame monsters
>there will never be a system where you can train and share pets with other players or a deep crafting system where a community forms around it
>there will never again be small servers where everyone knows everyone, only megaservers with randos who can act like c**ts because no one will remember them and they can't be ostracized
>Too little and you just end up with a raidshit MMO like WoW or 14
What makes you think this has a correlation with the amount of grinding in the game? Both WoW and FFXIV has tremendous amounts of grindy activities and even the "raidshit" itself has things like reputation grind attached to it.
A game without grinds doesn't have to force people into group content you know.
Maybe I'm a bit too radical when I say MMOs shouldn't have grinding at all, what I really mean is that the grind should be optional and not a core part of progression. Grinding is fine for things that are inherently boring like chopping wood, mining ore or crafting equipment. Requiring the player to sit through a long-ass grind in order to get anywhere though is just lazy game design when you consider that you could be partaking in more engaging activities instead.
You have a lot of assumptions about what I want and for some reason you assume I want to play modern WoW or CoD, I don't.
Performing mind-numbingly boring tasks for hours on end is not required for the game to be considered an MMORPG, we should expect more from developers in the future so they don't keep making skinnerboxes or endless loot threadmills like the ones you like so much. MMOs should be interactive and fun and offer a lot of variety, grinding is antithetical to that.
I think MMOs SHOULD have grinding, it is fun to have progress and slowly build to stuff. The issue is that majority of MMOs don't even playtest the grind. There is a difference between daily having to hit your toes with a hammer 300 timed having to sit down sit down and chat with friends on a balcony for an hour daily. MMOs choose the former always because it requires less work and they assume that the carrot at the end is enough to keep the engagement metrics up. It misses the key point of "playing games for fun" that caused people to play a game for days and go to bed thinking of the game.
i hate classes that utilize UI abuse, like rogues in WoW or scoundrels in SWTOR using kiting to abuse the lack of non-forward targeting. it's cheap.
T. Keyboard Turner
Despite its flaws I like mortal online
>horse archers the game
it would have been good if the devs weren't rabbid archer wiener sucking homosexuals.
Horse archers got fricked when they added a frick ton of sway if you didn't invest even more primary skill points in controlled aiming.
Not only that but the damage is pitiful against any armor that isn't throwaway garbage like incisium which most people unfortunately run, but most aren't running mounted builds anyways as basic horses aren't very good and bullhorse isn't in the game yet.
Molvas are great though
Thats great, too bad he fricked the launch by making it horse archers the game. I'm just not returning to getting ganked by some homosexual on his horse that i can't catch because he can ride away and shoot the arrow while i'm stuck with a fricking polearm.
as a thursar main I feel your pain. There's still gaylords out there running MA builds but nowadays I just dismount and pull a longbow on the dude.
120+ hit gets them to frick off pretty fast.
Thats essentially my issue with the game though, the only counter to archer homosexualry is doing archer homosexualry yourself. They needed to add a sprinting skill so you can catch these buttholes off a horse, or make some sort of deflect skill so you can just negate them existing in 1v1 scenarios. Its complete Black person nonsense to force people into roles they don't want to play because the devteam is too stupid to fix the core issue of the gameplay which is archers ruin everything for 90% of the playerbase, or was when i played for the first few months after MO2 launch.
MAs have had free reign on the game since its release but the scales are swinging further and further to Mounted combat and mounted magers (gay).
My lancer with beast mastery has been able to chase down these MA kiddos on their unarmored horse and kill them from 100% if I get the dismount. They all run those gay arcane archer builds so the lance is hitting them for 80s
game would see a huge combat gameplay boon if they just removed mounted combat and forced people to fight on their feet, it was always an extremely questionable decision to have mounted combat at launch when you can literally walk 2 minutes outside haven and have a horse when walking and by association "running" which is just walking plus is so fricking slow, even if its a shit horse. Just make the mounts purely movement until the dev team can figure out how to balance mounted combat.
Mounted combat is fun.
It's the ranged options from mount that make open field fighting annoying.
I'm able to catch and kill these mounted mages and archer and kill them sure, but it's still annoying as frick and not fun. Just irritating chasing them down as they spam heal the horse.
I agree with you for sure that foot fighting is the best part of the game, the game especially shines when its groups of 4-6 each
>"PK"ing such a common topic in these MMO anime
Because I am the weakest ranker who is actually the strongest player, number one assassin with strategies no one else can comprehend and data miners don't exist.
theres literally only 2 mmos right now with functioning pvp
>gw2
problem is that its been abandond by the devs for years and outside of some new elite specs and/or balance they havent changed anything the last few years
>destiny2
not your traditional pvp mmo, its basically just cod with worse balance, its very good by mmo pvp standards because its actually playable and gets regular updates and has alot of players compared to any other pvp mmo
but compared to other shooters its just a worse cod with worse balance.
Gw2 is filled with Wintrade and RMT bullshit. Even in WvW people are engaging in it. The best patch was right before HoT when Cele Ele was gutted and the strongest SPVP class was Dhuumfire Necro, it could still be beaten by multiple classes, and kept supports and bunkers in check. Every class had a build at that time too. They dropped the steaming hot shit that was HoT and Especs right after and it's never been the same.
I know, ive played years of scourge being broken at PoF release.
It still has robust combat system and if someone is much worse than you, you are guaranted to win 90% of the time
beside the bad balancing the only thing that really annoyed me was that bunker meta that made pvp kind of boring after a while
When Legendary rank was easier, I made it in S4 during HoT. I regret the time I put into it, I thought "getting good" and reaching a high rank would earn me enough respect to get friends to play with. I literally only made enemies out of the people I beat. Add in all the bullshit going on with the forums, esports, wintrading and RMT it just turned into a giant shit show. I heard Scourge was Chronobunker bad too, I'm glad I didn't bother with PvP in PoF. I tired WvW in EoD but there were so many oneshot builds I couldn't figure out what was going on. The game just feels like a mountain of wasted potential all around, but it still has my favorite map design of any MMO. The hidden places, jumping puzzles and out of the way npc conversations and such were so nice.
You forgot about OSRS, RS3, Albion, Throne and Liberty, BDO, New World, Eve Online, TESO, Mortal Online 2 and many more.
>OSRS
doesnt even have a functioning combat system
>RS3
holy lmao
>Albion
with their playernumbers you are lucky to even see another player
>Throne and liberty
who?
>BDO
literally need to p2w in order to be able to compete, I knew some people who played and needed to shell out thousands of euro to stay competitive in pvp
>New world
probably the only real answer in your list, but does it have anything beside big wars?
>TESO
literally worse gw2 pvp in every way
>mortal online 2
isnt that just medieval rust?
Thousands of people play these games every day and pvp their ass off, they're functional alright and your nitpicks don't change a thing.
Albion is by far the most crowded MMO. Only two servers and no phasing or shards.
>Throne and liberty
huh, this looks really promising.
It's only out in Korea at the moment, it remains to be seen how much of the P2W shit carry over to the western release.
honestly I'm kinda over people b***hing about p2w. As long as the game is actually fun to play at the highest level I'm fine grinding it out and dabbing on some loser who swiped mommy's credit card to get on my level.
The gameplay alone looks promising from what I can see
What are you some kind of chinese bot trying to influence popular opinion into thinking p2w is somehow good? Shame on you bugman.
>ctually fun to play at the highest level I'm fine grinding it out and dabbing on some loser who swiped mommy's credit card to get on my level.
The gameplay alone looks promising from what I can see
I guess you never played BDO? without spending thousands of euros you are literally worse than everyone else to the point you literally hit people with "immune" while they kill you with 1 combo
>Directional combat/parry.
>First person only
>No micro transactions
>Subscriptions will include access to all future expansions
>Indie dev
Today I shilled for Henrik, shameful.
Man, I just want to go back. I think, I was playing in world 5, maybe 4. And I don't think anyone even managed to find the gold deposit before the wipe, not to mention to start the coin minting.
H&H is more alive than ever before. I'm playing right now.
https://www.havenandhearth.com/portal/track/
It's better than the old 2D Haven in every way. World15 started in October last year and is still going to last another 6-8 months.
Archeage
Wizardy online was fun with bros, PKing meant that people would lose hours of progress
Albion.
It's funny when people complain about p2w in korean MMO's, then the 2 most played MMO's in the west (WoW and FFXIV) all have p2w and cash shop as well.
And this is on top of a forced sub fee, fully priced bi-yearly expansions.
>WoW and FFXIV
WoW doesnt have p2w in PvP, its only p2w if you are world first racing because you can buy like maybe 3 or 4 slots of your 16 slot equipment
>FFXIV
isnt the shop cosmetic only?
in WoW these slots you with gold arent better than raid/normal gear at all, its only p2w because you can get them faster, so if you shell out money you have a 5% to 10% better gear headstart for 2 weeks in a 6 months raid release
which is why its p2w for world first racers but w/e for anyone else
>WoW doesnt have p2w in PvP
You can buy gold for real money, you can use that gold to get better gear to be stronger in PvP. Therefor it's p2w.
In FFXIV you can buy a mount that gives you full movementspeed at the start of an expansion, giving an advantage over people that has not bought the mount.
You can also pay extra each month for retainers that allows you to have more storage space and get more materials and gold.
>You can buy gold for real money, you can use that gold to get better gear to be stronger in PvP. Therefor it's p2w.
you forgot to mention that this gear isnt best in slot, best in slot pvp gear comes from pvp only because that pvp gear has a higher itemlvl than pve/gold gear in pvp zones/pvp fights
p2w means you get the best gear with money online OR have a massive headstart and you need to grind months to get on the same level, both doesnt apply in wow pvp
And you can't buy best in slot gear in most asiatic MMORPG, what's your point?
You can still pay to get an advantage, you NEED to pay to compete in the only competitive side of WoW (raiding) where you also get the best gear for PvP.
Using your logic no game is P2W
Yes you can because you can get more gil by having more retainers which means you can buy crafted gear at the start of patch that gives you an advantage over others, therefor p2w.
>You can still pay to get an advantage, you NEED to pay to compete in the only competitive side of WoW (raiding) where you also get the best gear for PvP.
what WoW are you talking about?
>classic?
classic world first is done in a matter of minutes/hours, nobody can buy gear because nobody are able to get the materials/recipes that fast, therefore not p2w
>normal wow?
retail normal wow has pvp gear with higher itemlvl, literally no pve gear in the entire game is better than pvp gear in pvp, pvp gear is like 15 itemlvl higher than the best pve gear and everybody can get that pvp gear. therefore its not p2w either
by my logic BDO is p2w because you get itemupgrades that have has a 100% chance to improve your gear while grinding that itemupgrade has like a 1% chance of upgrading it and you need to grind the materials again if you fail.
or p2w like warframe did back in the day with pvp before they completely reworked it where you could get ammo with real money that was straight up better than any ammo you could get from the game, therefore forcing you to constantly buy ammo from the store in order to stay competitive in pvp
>retail normal wow has pvp gear with higher itemlvl, literally no pve gear in the entire game is better than pvp gear in pvp, pvp gear is like 15 itemlvl higher than the best pve gear and everybody can get that pvp gear. therefore its not p2w either
PvP gear is timegated, so you NEED to raid to compete in PvP to fill out the slots while you wait for the weekly resets. Therefor it's p2w.
>by my logic BDO is p2w because you get itemupgrades that have has a 100% chance to improve your gear while grinding that itemupgrade has like a 1% chance of upgrading it and you need to grind the materials again if you fail.
Why are you talking about stuff you have no idea about? Nothing you said here is true.
>PvP gear is timegated, so you NEED to raid to compete in PvP to fill out the slots while you wait for the weekly resets. Therefor it's p2w.
or you could just wait for the first 3 weeks in a 6-8 months season, Like I said before, the difference between using money to buy gold or not is a minimal gear difference in teh first few weeks of a new season
>Why are you talking about stuff you have no idea about? Nothing you said here is true.
it literally is, what the frick are you talking about? they may have changed it, but the beginning of BDO was definitely like that and not spending money makes you literally not be able to kill better players
>it literally is, what the frick are you talking about? they may have changed it, but the beginning of BDO was definitely like that and not spending money makes you literally not be able to kill better players
I fricking play BDO and has since the start and never did any "p2w". But feel free to prove me wrong and show me this item that can magically upgrade your gear.
>or you could just wait for the first 3 weeks in a 6-8 months season, Like I said before, the difference between using money to buy gold or not is a minimal gear difference in teh first few weeks of a new season
So the game is not p2w because you can choose to not play the game at all and wait until gear becomes useless? What fricked up logic is that, it's the first weeks that matters THE MOST in a new patch moron. You literally admit you can't compete unless you do p2w.
Using this logic you can say the same for every single asiatic MMORPG, you can just not play and wait for a new patch that makes the old gear useless.
>I fricking play BDO and has since the start and never did any "p2w"
HAHAHAHAH LOOK AT THIS SUBHUMAN asiatic Black person LOOK AT HIM THAT HE STILL PLAYS BDO in 2024 UNIRONICALLY
>So the game is not p2w because you can choose to not play the game at all and wait until gear becomes useless? What fricked up logic is that, it's the first weeks that matters THE MOST in a new patch moron.
only in PvE you moron, which is why my main argument was that its only p2w in world first racing, its not worth it to spend 100.000$ every patch to get a 5% to 10% gear difference for the first 2 weeks there
In PvP the first few weeks are literally the LESS WORTH weeks because of the hidden inflated mmr system, so if you get good rating in PvP at the start of the season with 2300 rating, it will be worth shit when people are 3400 at the end of the season
stop talking you fricking chinaman Black personchild
Show me the piece of item that lets you upgrade your gear in Black Desert, I'm not reading or posting anything more until you do.
so you are actively ignoring what I said earlier, thats ok, I accept your defeat.
You literally try to argue that BDO is less p2w than FFXIV or WoW, you are mentally moronic, korean Black personboi
>I fricking play BDO and has since the start and never did any "p2w".
Flat out lie. You gamble on an RNG gear upgrade system that loses a tier (weapons, armor) or flat out breaks (accessories) or you can pony up and pay to protect them from downgrading/breaking. You need Tri (rank 23) gear minimum to compete. At least you did back in the day, whales all had maxed out Tet or something, whatever the r25 gear was. Then you had buying cash shop shit to sell on the market. A friend of mine threw down two grand to get Tri gear because he has no self control. Cash Shop gear, even the "cosmetics", gave bonus stats. The stealth suit was cash shop only. BDO is the very definition of p2w.
>even the "cosmetics", gave bonus stats
You mean the cosmetic stuff you get for free as well and stuff you can buy on the marketplace?
>Then you had buying cash shop shit to sell on the market. A friend of mine threw down two grand to get Tri gear because he has no self control
So it's the exact same shit as in WoW?
And what the frick is this "rank23" you talk about? I play the game, never done any p2w and I compete and do siege with the best geared players in the game.
How am I able to do so if the game is p2w and I've not done any?
how the frick do you not know how the gear upgrade system works in black desert online if you played it since the beginning? why are you here flat out lying?
This entire post is a fricking lie. You are a blatant shill.
>what is this ran "23"
The fricking gear tiers you use black stones on. What the frick?
There's no fricking "rank" tiers in BDO.
Accessories have PRI-PEN ranks and weapons/armor have 1-15 and then PRI-PEN.
What the frick is this "rank" you're talking about?
>it goes up to 20 instead of 25
My bad, but how did the mention of TRI and black stones not give away what I am talking about? Regardless, the upgrade system is RNG bullshit and expects you to pony up and pay.
Is it eight months with or without the RNG? Because your TET earring just broke up the upgrade to PEN because you didn't pay for protection. To say nothing of getting camped by max gear players for literally no reason or because you didn't join their guild. The game was an abomination of dogshit when I played it, probably even worse now.
>Regardless, the upgrade system is RNG bullshit and expects you to pony up and pay.
And it's still RNG even if you pay, what's your fricking point?
Or you could do like everyone else in the game and just buy the shit from the marketplace. It's a CHOICE if you gamble or not.
>p2w is a CHOICE
you are right, which is why me and every other sane people on the planet CHOOSE not to play this game
at this point im pretty sure he means another game than black desert online with "BDO" because nobody can be that moronic, right?
You made me look at a farming gear guide for 740 gear
from 0 to 708 it will take you 8 months
8 FRICKING MONTHS OF CONSTANT grinding to get to a decent enough level (still not 740, just 708)
while the guides doesnt specifically doesnt say the time between 708 to 740 anymore since the RNG gets to fricking strong at the time
what the frick are you even on about? you say 2 weeks headstart that nobody except 2 or 4 raid guilds in wow do is p2w but being able to skip a probably 1 year constnant grind to be able to compete in pvp isnt?
are you that moronic?
https://www.naeu.playblackdesert.com/en-US/Forum/ForumTopic/Detail?_topicNo=6608&_page=1
thats what I was looking at btw
replied to the wrong person,
it was meant for the moronic BDO shill that thinks FFXIV/WoW is more p2w than BDO
>it takes time to get the best gear in an MMORPG
Are you moronic? And you wouldn't even be able to p2w that gear if you tried to.
You can easily get 700 (which is moronic way to measure gear as it doesn't take accuracy into account or the AP/DP difference) by just playing a month. And with that you can compete with 740 gear players.
Like why are you talking about stuff about a game you have no idea how it works?
You are seriously right now whining because it takes a long time to get the very best gear in the game in an MMORPG?
>And with that you can compete with 740 gear players.
Said the whale, desperate for new blood to gank.
>You can easily get 700 (which is moronic way to measure gear as it doesn't take accuracy into account or the AP/DP difference) by just playing a month. And with that you can compete with 740 gear players.
Like why are you talking about stuff about a game you have no idea how it works?
the guide literally says otherwise with comments literally even saying that it usually takes even longer with bad rng
And yes I rather believe a guide and some forum posters over some moron like you who believes this is less p2w than ffxiv for some reason
You fricking admit you have no idea what you are talking about. see
>reddit spacing
>complaining that it takes a lot of time to get the best gear in a fricking MMORPG
If you guys know about the game so well, tell me the difference between a 700 and a 720 geared player.
I do know what Im talking about because these guides gives a pretty easy list to understand how it works with people commenting on it
>This guide ignores the fact that the best gear varies from about 15 billion up to hundreds of billions per item. Even if you grind "500 mil by questing", keep in mind the MINIMUM you'll need is about 15 billion to get a PEN. Also most quests are not repeatable, leaving you to grind it out once you're done with the initial rush of gold bars from beginner quests. It will take you years to accumulate enough money to afford a full PEN set. You can always pay of course, and roll PEN attempts with cron stones, but there's a reason a PEN is 3% at 100 failstacks. You aren't supposed to succeed. You're supposed to get monetized into buying/melting outfits in the pearl shop.
another poster from the thread, how isnt this p2w?
its obvious you are a moronic shill that doesnt want to admit that this game is p2w or grind for years to compete
>I know what I'm talking about because I read this moronic "guide" on the forums
Can you answer the question instead? Not only does it take less than 10h to get a PEN gear, even grinding the easiest spots in the game which you can by playing a few hours. They give away PEN gear for free, you get 1 set or armor and 2 sets of accessories.
So just by playing a month you can get geared to endgame easily.
Now answer my question, what's the difference between 700 gear score which you can easily get and 720 gear score that can take ages to get.
I'll be waiting for the answer.
>Can you answer the question instead? Not only does it take less than 10h to get a PEN gear, even grinding the easiest spots in the game which you can by playing a few hours. They give away PEN gear for free, you get 1 set or armor and 2 sets of accessories.
why are you flat out lying? literally every single source says otherwise on the internet
>Now answer my question, what's the difference between 700 gear score which you can easily get and 720 gear score that can take ages to get.
why does that matter? everyone says the game is p2w but some moronic low iq korean Black folkucking homosexual boi that doesnt deserve to breath is right and everyone is wrong? yeah for sure
Still waiting for you to answer., right now the only complaint I see you having is that it takes a long time to get the best gear in the game in a fricking grind MMORPG:
I provided you a source with every claim I had
you didnt provide shit or proved in any way what you said is right
how about you show me some guides that says you can reach best gear in BDO in a few weeks without paying a single dim
>right now the only complaint I see you having is that it takes a long time to get the best gear in the game in a fricking grind MMORPG
Im complaining that this is the literal definition of p2w to be able to skip MONTHS and YEARS of constant grinding to be able to dominate people in pvp
and I laugh at your face when you say that increased storage space is p2w in FFXIV at the same time
I'm still waiting for you to answer the difference between 700 and 720 gear score.
You are fine with being able to p2w to get better gear for PvP in WoW at the start of a new patch, being stronger than people that wait for weeks and months. Why is this not ok in BDO according to you?
>
You are fine with being able to p2w to get better gear for PvP in WoW at the start of a new patch, being stronger than people that wait for weeks and months
because the cost/use isnt there, these items costs thousands of euro for a measly 2% dmg increase that will be useless after 2 weeks
especially in a pvp system where you get inflated MMR per week, meaning that the first few weeks of dominating pvp ranking doestn mean shit because the highest people are capped at 2400 rating while in the last few weeks its around 3400
in reality how pvp works in wow:
new season begins, rating, winning/losing doesnt matter, everybody plays the absolute minimum amount of pvp to get the cap gear (which is,like you said timegated) it doesnt matter if you win/lose, you get points towards the cap anyways.
So if you have bought alot of gold, you can get 2 rings and an amulet, which gives oyu like 2% increased dmg, these 3 items will be useless in 2 weeks since the pvp gear is flat out better. In the time where that gold gear is relevant, winning and losing isnt relevant, why? because the rewards of a pvp season (rank 1 title, mounts etc.) are given AFTER the season is done. In Order to get to that rating you need to win, but the rating increases artifcally every week so people cant play on week 1 with their gear, win with their 2% dmg increase and then SIT on the rating till they get their rewards.
Is that really hard to understand? while at the same time you tell me grinding 8 months of PvE mobs or skipping it with real money is somehow less p2w than this system? Because in wow pvp crafted gear has no meaning outside of these few weeks where, because of the artificial MMR bump, you cant reach high ranking anyway before getting any rewards
>because the cost/use isnt there, these items costs thousands of euro for a measly 2% dmg increase that will be useless after 2 weeks
Now tell me the difference between a 700 and 720 gear score character in BDO.
Also if I make a new character in WoW I have to lvl it myself, that takes months! Or I could just pay and get a fully leveled character instantly, isn't that p2w?
>Also if I make a new character in WoW I have to lvl it myself, that takes months! Or I could just pay and get a fully leveled character instantly, isn't that p2w?
you can reach maxlevel in wow in like 3 hours if you speedran or like 10 hours if you take your time.
>Now tell me the difference between a 700 and 720 gear score character in BDO.
dont be a moron, we both know the difference between 700 (softcap) to 750(hardcap) is much MUCH higher than 2% better stats
Oh so it's like getting softcap gear in BDO?
The thing you claimed to months?
>700 and 720 gs is MUCH higher than 2% in stats
Like I said, you have no idea how this game works.
>The thing you claimed to months?
so you have the best gear afterwards?
>This run requires that you've completed the main story quest (MSQ) and have all of the MSQ gear, which is wearable on season characters.
holy shit you lying piece of shit, you are such a subhuman.
So this aint a speedrun on how to get gear, but in how to finish the season pass while also requiring to finish your gear? you are moronic
Honestly just top arguing with the very obvious shill. This happens to every p2w game, the whales run out of food and start begging people to play. Eventually they'll cannibalize themselves.
Nah I want the moron to admit hes wrong
Im looking at a video guide right now
this is btw after you finish the season and start doing gear progressing and the guy even says it takes multiple months and the difference between 680 (softcap after a few months without paying) and 760 (hardcap with paying money) is like 15-20% better stats
>so you have the best gear afterwards?
Why the frick should you get the best gear in the game in a fricking MMORPG by playing for a few days. Are you fricking moronic?
Why change the goal post?
>Why the frick should you get the best gear in the game in a fricking MMORPG by playing for a few days. Are you fricking moronic?
but you do in wow pvp which you claimed was p2w
if you start in the middle of the season you can get best in slot pvp gear after CREATING the character in 1 week of playing, or around 50 hours
this BDO guide says that if you start farming for the softcap after finishing the season pass you are looking for 1 year of grinding casually
>but you do in wow pvp which you claimed was p2w
Yes it is because you can buy gold which you can use to buy BoE which you can use in PvP which will be better for PvP at the start of season... which is the ONLY time that matter for PvP in WoW.
>this BDO guide says that if you start farming for the softcap after finishing the season pass you are looking for 1 year of grinding casually
Using agris points you can easily get over 1b/h grinding at spots straight out from Season (https://garmoth.com/grind-tracker/global) and this doesn't include events that's going on all the time.
You get 2 free PEN accessories and 1 (2?) free PEN armors. PEN armors are cheap and frick and are just a few billions, TET accessories which are softcap are barely few billions as well. You can easily get softcap by casually playing for a week. Faster than you would playing WoW and getting raid ready which you can p2w to be instantly.
>which is the ONLY time that matter for PvP in WoW.
did you even read what I said? the start of the reason is the time pvp DOESNT matter because of how the hidden mmr mechanics work
do yourself a favor and read on it, you moron
https://www.reddit.com/r/worldofpvp/comments/18m6qk7/mmr_inflation_is_100_live/
>Using agris points you can easily get over 1b/h grinding at spots straight out from Season (https://garmoth.com/grind-tracker/global) and this doesn't include events that's going on all the time.
>You get 2 free PEN accessories and 1 (2?) free PEN armors. PEN armors are cheap and frick and are just a few billions, TET >accessories which are softcap are barely few billions as well. You can easily get softcap by casually playing for a week. Faster >than you would playing WoW and getting raid ready which you can p2w to be instantly.
and now prove what you just said, because everyone on the planet is saying otherwise
and Yes I didnt even read what you wrote because without prove your word doesnt mean dogshit and its not worth reading since I already caught you lying multiple times already
>and now prove what you just said, because everyone on the planet is saying otherwise
Who is? The moronic guide you posted?
I posted raw numbers for you, what the frick else do you want me to do?
Just do the math for yourself you moron.
And no, the start of the season is the ONLY time ranked PvP matters, because after a few weeks it will all be boosters and impossible to climb in rank unless you pay boosters.
>I posted raw numbers for you, what the frick else do you want me to do?
proving these numbers exist? You cant just say apples are 100€ worth and everyone will instantly believe you, I want guides, videos, posts, ingame screenshots to prove that any number you post is actually true
>And no, the start of the season is the ONLY time ranked PvP matters, because after a few weeks it will all be boosters and impossible to climb in rank unless you pay boosters.
are you moronic? I literally, even with prove, posted why it doesnt matter because YOU CANT REACH HIGH RANKING AT THE START OF THE SEASON BECUASE OF THE HIDDEN MMR SYSTEM.
You are literally forced to spend the last weeks constantly playing PvP if you want to reach the highest rank and its intented so people cant just sit and do nothing because they played in a lucky timeframe
https://bdolytics.com/en/NA/market/central-market/item/12031
TET crescent ring which is a softcap accessory costs under 4b.
Want me to go on?
>https://bdolytics.com/en/NA/market/central-market/item/12031
Yes go on, even if its 29trillion, but its okay, Im used to getting lied by you
>but thats not the softcap
its the highest available gear
now show me a video on how you can reach the best gear in BDO and be able to compete in PvP in under 1 week on a fresh account without spending a single amount of money outside of the base costs of the game.
Because you can do the same thing in WoW, which you claim in p2w
Can you stop goal posting? We are talking about softcap and you complain that you can't get the very best gear in the game. IN A FRICKING GRIND MMORPG in a few days?
Please stick to the topic if you want to keep discussing.
you are moving the goalpost my moronic subhuman korean Black person child
we are talking about mmo pvp in this topic, and being able to play mmo pvp you need the same gear as everyone else
and if yo ucant reach that in a reasonable timeframe withotu spending money your little cuckold simulator game is by definition a p2w game, and it doesnt help to move the goalpost by saying "but wow but ffxiv" when I proved in this thread that they arent p2w in pvp
>"Show me proof that you can easily get softcap gear for cheap!"
>I do this
>"yeah but that's not the best gear in the game, the best gear is expensive!"
yeah dude, not changing goalposts.
the original goal was proving that BDO is p2w, which I already proved by digging into the numbers
you cant refute that getting good gear takes like 500 to 1000 hours of playtime without spending money on it, and even then you arent even on the same leveling field as everyone else without spending money to get the ACTUAL best gear (hardcap)
shill somewhere else, Black person, nobody wants to play your shitty p2w game
>you cant refute that getting good gear takes like 500 to 1000 hours of playtime without spending money on it
I just fricking proved getting sotfcap gear which you can use to compete with others take super fast time and you don't have to spend a cent.
but you didnt? the only thing you showed me was that you could do the seasonal pass in 4 hours, which is unrelated to the gear progression system at all.
If you want to prove what, you need to give me guides on how someone makes a fresh account and farm softcap gear in that "short" timeframe you mentioned
https://garmoth.com/grind-tracker/global
>showed you how much silver you can gain by grinding
https://bdolytics.com/en/NA/market/central-market/item/12031
>showed you how much soft gear items cost to buy
What else do you want? Or are you actually so moronic you can't do the maths yourself.
If you grind for 4h you can get around 4b silver, with that 4b silver you can buy a softcap item like the one I linked you.
Now how long would it take to cap out around 8 slots of items this way?
you know what? to give you a even more frick you
they changed PvP in wow retail even, the blue gear you get from battlegrounds, has the highest pvp itemlvl
the arena ranked pvp gear has higher PvE itemlvl but its PvP itemlvl is the same as the blue gear from battlegrounds
1 won battleground is 1 gear, or 2 lost battlegrounds is 1 gear, so with 16 itemslots its 24 battlegrounds to get PvP best in slot gear.
You dont need to spend money in the first weeks to compete in pvp in the first weeks because even the worst PvP gear has the highest itemlvl in PvP already.
24 Battlegrounds is like 10 hours of play time (5min queue if you horde, instant as alliance, 20min battleground on average)
so to be able to have best gear in arena and do ranked arena on the same level as everybody else you need
10 hours from 1 to 70
10 hours to get gear
so from 20 hours playtime you can get PvP ready on a fresh account.
How is that more p2w than BDO where you need to grind 1 year to be able to play PvP and still everybody else having 10-15% better gear than you if you dont spend money on it
Never say that any other game is more p2w than BDO ever again, subhuman
its btw obvious that this moronic BDO shill doesnt play wow
wow has alot of "catchup" mechanics they introduce in every patch, if you start a new account you can literally reach the newest endgame in like 3 days of playtime
>my source is a guide telling you how long it takes to get the best gear in the game?
Ok? So we agree that it takes a long time to get the best gear in an MMORPG.
yes.
You havent showed me anything that proved me otherwise btw.
oh Ive been reading a few comments on that post
>here is also a hard gear cap; yes it is very high and difficult to reach but those people who have been playing full time since initial NA/EU launch will eventually hit that wall. It's not as difficult as you make it out to be.
that hardcap is 740 and apperently without going p2w nearly impossible to reach for people that arent playing since release, it takes YEARS to reach it.
lmao and that guy wanted to fool us into believing it aint p2w, what a fricktard
>In FFXIV you can buy a mount that gives you full movementspeed at the start of an expansion, giving an advantage over people that has not bought the mount.
You can also pay extra each month for retainers that allows you to have more storage space and get more materials and gold.
and the more storage space and gold allows you to get better gear? oh wait it doesnt, so someone who spends money has the same combat power than someone who doesnt? therefore its not p2w
Even if this was true, does it somehow make it ok for Koreans to pump their games full of blatant p2w and pay for convenience mechanics? Western consumers expect more from their devs, thankfully they don't see their in-game character video game character as real life status symbols like the bugmen do.
>even if it's true that western slop is just as bad as asiatic slop western consumers expect more
The biggest and most played western game, WoW is far worse than any asiatic MMORPG.
Sex with rabbits
They have weirdly good chemistry in the show, but I guess that's because their VAs are married IRL.
Elsword used to but typical power creep and Korean israelitery caused it to go to shit years ago, making it heavily reliant of gear instead of tech.
Remember the horrible gank stories from wow?
there were very few and the people crying about it blew it way out of proportion.
Now Blizzard just bans you if you gank someone... if he happens to be a streamer that is
Do MMO FPS games count?
>Why the hell is "PK"ing such a common topic in these MMO anime when it feels like this style is system is relatively rare?
They probably wanted a decent pvp game, so they portray it in anime/manga
In animay the level 20 (protag) actually survives when a party of level cap gankers show up
pretty much every MMO I played was korean and all of them had a PK system. i thought it was pretty annoying since usually its always an butthole with max gear spawnkilling newbies for no reason other than to be an butthole. i miss it though because FFXIV is boring
pvp in new world is quite poggers imo but the game is pretty much ruined in everything else
new world pvp is too hard for the casual moron that posts here, brother
Like 90% of mmos have PKing as a thing.
Zoomers ITT legit don’t even know that there is this massively popular thing called World of Warcraft: Classic where on PVP realm (which most of ppl play on) you can simply attack and pk any opposing faction dudes on sight and ganking is rampant.
I am glad you brought this up, my gf is a long time WoW player and when I showed her this thread she said
>"The white man refers to it as ganking."
Anyway, everything about PvP in WoW seems to embody this whole concept people are discussing. It's strange because WoW is the biggest MMO of the last 30 years yet people keep going to these random examples from niche MMO #1553.
>niches MMO
you are too young
Nobody cares, because WoW was always shit.
Guild Wars was better, Runescape was better, FFXIV is better.
You sound like a stereotypical seething contrarian gay who never got over that he missed the generational gaming experience that was world of warcraft in its prime lmao. Pvp in ffxiv better? Fricking lmao.
Ps. I was PKing people in runescape wilderness with full gear on (not this pussy ”pure” shit) before you were even born zoomie. Back in the day before Runescape got the gay 3d graphics they call ”old-school” runescape today.
>You sound like a stereotypical seething contrarian gay who never got over that he missed the generational gaming experience that was world of warcraft in its prime lmao
Only kids played WoW, it was the fortnite game back in the days.
Casualized and kid friendly dumbed down game with cartoony graphics.
What anime is this
Is it good?
Shangri-la frontier, I like it even if it is a bit slow, it is about playing a vr mmo, no death game, isekai or reincarnation stuff just playing a game and getting its lore while bantering with your bro.
>are there any MMOs with actually robust PvP?
UO.
Is the PvP on UO Outlands any good?