Honestly six button layout only takes advantage when fighters are being played. Moving two buttons to the shoulders makes it far easier to execute all possible button combinations, something you can easily see when comparing PS2/Xbox multiplat releases like GTA and Psi Ops
There's a reason modern controllers still use a variation of the SNES layout and not the 6-button Genesis layout.
I map the X and Z buttons to the shoulder buttons on my controller when I emulate Genesis games.
>be nintendo >understand humans have more than 3 fingers >make a controller that uses your index fingers >meanwhile >be sega >make one finger operate 6 buttons
I do remember playing games like Mortal Combat with those button controllers and always struggling to do combos and basic inputs because mashing 4 buttons while staying hyperfocused is difficult without developed muscle memory.
Yeah and you use your thumb for all of the buttons anyway. So that's a really dumb argument. Even if you use claw grip or whatever, you're still using three fingers max.
Same. Maybe it's because I have inexplicably gigantic hands but four-button setups weren't the best for me. My favourite controller was my Saturn. Six buttons plus two shoulders.
Shoulder buttons are objectively superior for multiple inputs. You can hit B+L, B+R, B+Y all without even moving your thumb, while on the Genesis controller, C+A, C+X, C+Y, B+Z, B+X, A+Y, and A+Z are all fundamentally impossible combinations unless you hold the controller with a piano grip, which defeats the entire fricking purpose of a controller. The question isn't "6 buttons vs. 4 buttons", it's "6 buttons side-by-side vs. 4 buttons for the thumb + 2 for the fingers".
Le sigh... once again Sega's brilliant engineering wasted on the plebes... I wouldn't expect a spergling like you to fully appreciate a controller designed to be used as a controller or an arcade stick at the user's discretion.
2 months ago
Anonymous
>pic
It never occurred to me that you could actually play fighting games like the bottom part. It really is genius of sega to do this.
2 months ago
Anonymous
[...]
Moreover, for some people the "point" of a home console controller is to be a minatiurised version of an arcade controller, that you can still piano grip, which the Sega 3/6 button layout is better at, as seen in this guy's post [...]
wow let's make the buttons nice and big to accommodate this alternative way to press buttons, how about for the other three buttons we make them DIFFERENT TINY FRICKING BUTTONS SPACED CLOSER TOGETHER
fricking bravo
2 months ago
Anonymous
also worth it to mention holding it that way is an ergonomic nightmare where you either turn your wrist 180 or hybrid of supporting it on your leg and holding the dpad normally
2 months ago
Anonymous
This. It's self-evident that this isn't how you're supposed to hold the controller. At that point just get a fricking fight stick.
2 months ago
Anonymous
these posts are always funny to read because no one had a problem with it. it literally sold systems with SF2.
2 months ago
Anonymous
>no one had a problem with it
well I do
controllers can be good but have flaws, and obviously playing street fighter with a 6 button is more intuitive, but it's not like they're choosing segas 6 button over something else, it was the only first party 6 button controller for it
sf2 you really only need to hit one button a majority of the time, save some moves like geif lariat (lk+lp) or dhalsim teleport (lp+mp+hp) >sold systems
despite having relatively similar console sales the SNES versions of sf2 games sold much much better
2 months ago
Anonymous
I tried doing this for Saturn fughting games. I ended up thinking I got trolled, did Sega or any game developer actually recommended this? It was just a clusterfrick.
2 months ago
Anonymous
Don't know if it was recommended but its how I to played some games especially 3 button fighting games like Virtua Fighter with my thumb on A and fingers on B and C. Its annoying that I cant replicate this properly on controllers with 4 face buttons like the Xbox where I have to cramp up my hand with my thumb on A and fingers on X and Y.
2 months ago
Anonymous
I don't know about Genesis/Saturn controllers specifically but I know there are some really good fighting game players (both /vr/ and modern games) who play with that piano-claw style grip on pad
Really once you're comfortable, the human brain can make it work on basically any control scheme if the controller isn't somehow faulty. If brolylegs can get it done then yeah
2 months ago
Anonymous
If only they put some shoulder buttons....
8BitDo released a Bluetooth version and it has both the 6 facebuttons and two shoulder buttons. I'm very tempted but then I already have too many controllers
Moreover, for some people the "point" of a home console controller is to be a minatiurised version of an arcade controller, that you can still piano grip, which the Sega 3/6 button layout is better at, as seen in this guy's post
Le sigh... once again Sega's brilliant engineering wasted on the plebes... I wouldn't expect a spergling like you to fully appreciate a controller designed to be used as a controller or an arcade stick at the user's discretion.
It actually has 7, but this guy has the right idea. SNES has L/R, plus the select button.
If OP is trying to make(or ask for?) a "less is more" type argument then he's straight up wrong, the SNES does not have only 4 buttons. If he's trying to ask if it's better to have more face buttons vs having shoulder buttons, then I don't have a preference for either, I've used both and they work well.
people never count the select button
same nonsense when people say pc engine has 2 buttons and genesis has 3, when the genesis doesnt have a select button. they're not super common but there are a bunch of 3 button pce games
Zoomers are the ones trying to come up with a "gotcha" over the OP not being 1000% literal. No one had to say it because the rest of us are adults with developed brains who know how to infer things without it being spoonfed to us.
I have no strong feelings one way or the other, but when it comes to modern controllers, I'd rather have 6 face buttons than stupid shit like back buttons or those godforsaken analog clickers.
The SNES controller is the best ever
The shoulder buttons are one of the best inventions of mankind
They all developed later controllers starting from this
NES-SNES-PS1 then the Xbox came, and it was very gay, but that's another story
>be nintendo >understand humans have more than 3 fingers >make a controller that uses your index fingers >meanwhile >be sega >make one finger operate 6 buttons
Four. I can't hit those last two while holding down the the run button. I can give jump a tap while running, and give a cheeky little thumb knuckle to the top button while running. If I'm feeling particularly ambitious I can even do a running spin jump or whatever with that fricker over there on the right. Six face buttons? While holding down run? Without lifting your finger? Get the frick outta here.
Dont want to make a thread so I'll ask here: Is this shit any good for playing on the og sfc? I bought one recently but the dpad on one oem controller missing inputs sometimes even after cleaning the contacts and rubber.
I bought the receiver and use it with my NSO SNES controller and it works like a charm
no visible input delay if I press both the original and the wireless one
This should be the standard in gaming industry today.
Six right-thumb buttons plus two (and only two) triggers, not the gay ass four button, four triggers we have today.
Thank Sony for bringing the npc into gaming back in the 90's.
Is there a good reason for not having 6 face buttons?
I guess at this point the standard has crystallized and changing it would just add friction to any ports to your platform, which is also why the additional back buttons are exclusive to “pro” or “elite” controllers or whatever, even though they make a lot of sense for dual analogue games. I’ve gotten used to the claw, but it’s pretty stupid I had to suffer through that.
>Is there a good reason for not having 6 face buttons?
If your thumb is adult-sized (you'll notice that kids' games make most use of just A+B for this reason) you can press all four buttons in a diamond arrangement with minimal movement by putting it so that (on an xbox layout) your thumbtip is just between XY and you press AB by almost rolling your thumb onto it.
6 face buttons can't do this, so you'll be stuck with having two actions you can expect the player to use quickly at any one moment
How is that Neo Geo 8bitdo controller holding up? I've been playing lots of fightcade with a 8bitdo m30, but have wanted the neo geo one for the microswitch goodness.
They all have their fans. II, IV, and V Special are generally seen as the best iirc. IV on CD is the only one with a practice mode I think, so that one might be good for dipping your toes in.
No problem. And if you haven't yet, try Last Blade 1/2 also.
2 months ago
Anonymous
I'll have to look into those too. I've been on a MVS Cart binge and getting different carts of games I like from playing on fightcade. Granted I have looked at the Samsho V carts(didn't know was a base version and the special name was just flair) and the Last Blade carts and frick are they stupid expensive. That ramble aside, if definitely try them too. Thanks again!
I have a couple of original Sega 3 button controllers but I'm struggling with using them because the facebuttons don't register unless I press down on them. Like, really fricking hard. I tried opening and cleaning with alcohol, no help.
The SNES will hurt your hand after a few minutes and the Mega Drive is very awkward to hold and press, specially because the buttons aren't lined up in very logical ways.
The SNES controller is far too small without any handles, has awkward button spacing, a terrible D-pad incapable of diagonals, and makes anyone with appreciable hand size cramp after only moderate use. Sega's controllers are widely considered to be vastly better, and the PlayStation took the concept of the SNES controller and actually made it good.
I should not have problems with buttons set on a horizontal row after years of Gameboy and placing the thumb between the two buttons to double press easily, but three buttons on a row still confuses me when it comes to using them correctly with just one thumb (yes, I know that for fighting games you are supposed to rest the right side on your lap and use the fingers).
Example: Megaman X. (or X4) On a diamond layout, I Jump-dash with A-B, then change the thumb's angle so that I can shoot with Y while still having the bottom part of the thumb on B.
With a three button setup where C dashes, B jumps and A shoots, I find it harder to press C immediately after pressing A. And I don't even know if this makes sense at all or I am explaining myself correctly.
Since X4 allows remapping the controls, I ended using X to shoot instead of A, creating a pseudo diamond layout.
For me, its keypads
Whichever is correct for the console I’m playing (six-button pads for fighters on four-button consoles are also correct)
Basically this
Also if I'm on Genesis it's usually three button for me. Just saiyan
Honestly six button layout only takes advantage when fighters are being played. Moving two buttons to the shoulders makes it far easier to execute all possible button combinations, something you can easily see when comparing PS2/Xbox multiplat releases like GTA and Psi Ops
There's a reason modern controllers still use a variation of the SNES layout and not the 6-button Genesis layout.
I map the X and Z buttons to the shoulder buttons on my controller when I emulate Genesis games.
Well summarized.
NOOO!!! You must pick one wireless chinkshit controller and use only that while emulating exclusively.
i only have 5 fingers so optimally i'm going to stick with 4 buttons
I get what you mean, but this is actually the same reason a lot of people (fighting game players) use arcade sticks
I do remember playing games like Mortal Combat with those button controllers and always struggling to do combos and basic inputs because mashing 4 buttons while staying hyperfocused is difficult without developed muscle memory.
Yeah and you use your thumb for all of the buttons anyway. So that's a really dumb argument. Even if you use claw grip or whatever, you're still using three fingers max.
Only 6 buttons?
Ha, weak!
I like six buttons over four. I think it has better ergonomics for the thumb
Same. Maybe it's because I have inexplicably gigantic hands but four-button setups weren't the best for me. My favourite controller was my Saturn. Six buttons plus two shoulders.
None of the games I like use six buttons. Most don't even make full use of four.
a six button pad with the right button placement can do everything a 4 button does, but the reverse is not possible
it is much easier to do simultaneous inputs with the shoulder buttons in most circumstances.
Shoulder buttons are objectively superior for multiple inputs. You can hit B+L, B+R, B+Y all without even moving your thumb, while on the Genesis controller, C+A, C+X, C+Y, B+Z, B+X, A+Y, and A+Z are all fundamentally impossible combinations unless you hold the controller with a piano grip, which defeats the entire fricking purpose of a controller. The question isn't "6 buttons vs. 4 buttons", it's "6 buttons side-by-side vs. 4 buttons for the thumb + 2 for the fingers".
>which defeats the entire fricking purpose of a controller.
Correct. An arcade stick is not a controller, it's an arcade stick. A controller is to be compact and held in the hands.
Le sigh... once again Sega's brilliant engineering wasted on the plebes... I wouldn't expect a spergling like you to fully appreciate a controller designed to be used as a controller or an arcade stick at the user's discretion.
>pic
It never occurred to me that you could actually play fighting games like the bottom part. It really is genius of sega to do this.
wow let's make the buttons nice and big to accommodate this alternative way to press buttons, how about for the other three buttons we make them DIFFERENT TINY FRICKING BUTTONS SPACED CLOSER TOGETHER
fricking bravo
also worth it to mention holding it that way is an ergonomic nightmare where you either turn your wrist 180 or hybrid of supporting it on your leg and holding the dpad normally
This. It's self-evident that this isn't how you're supposed to hold the controller. At that point just get a fricking fight stick.
these posts are always funny to read because no one had a problem with it. it literally sold systems with SF2.
>no one had a problem with it
well I do
controllers can be good but have flaws, and obviously playing street fighter with a 6 button is more intuitive, but it's not like they're choosing segas 6 button over something else, it was the only first party 6 button controller for it
sf2 you really only need to hit one button a majority of the time, save some moves like geif lariat (lk+lp) or dhalsim teleport (lp+mp+hp)
>sold systems
despite having relatively similar console sales the SNES versions of sf2 games sold much much better
I tried doing this for Saturn fughting games. I ended up thinking I got trolled, did Sega or any game developer actually recommended this? It was just a clusterfrick.
Don't know if it was recommended but its how I to played some games especially 3 button fighting games like Virtua Fighter with my thumb on A and fingers on B and C. Its annoying that I cant replicate this properly on controllers with 4 face buttons like the Xbox where I have to cramp up my hand with my thumb on A and fingers on X and Y.
I don't know about Genesis/Saturn controllers specifically but I know there are some really good fighting game players (both /vr/ and modern games) who play with that piano-claw style grip on pad
Really once you're comfortable, the human brain can make it work on basically any control scheme if the controller isn't somehow faulty. If brolylegs can get it done then yeah
If only they put some shoulder buttons....
8BitDo released a Bluetooth version and it has both the 6 facebuttons and two shoulder buttons. I'm very tempted but then I already have too many controllers
>An arcade stick is not a controller
Moreover, for some people the "point" of a home console controller is to be a minatiurised version of an arcade controller, that you can still piano grip, which the Sega 3/6 button layout is better at, as seen in this guy's post
snes has 6 buttons...
It actually has 7, but this guy has the right idea. SNES has L/R, plus the select button.
If OP is trying to make(or ask for?) a "less is more" type argument then he's straight up wrong, the SNES does not have only 4 buttons. If he's trying to ask if it's better to have more face buttons vs having shoulder buttons, then I don't have a preference for either, I've used both and they work well.
how did it take this far in the thread for someone to say this?
people never count the select button
same nonsense when people say pc engine has 2 buttons and genesis has 3, when the genesis doesnt have a select button. they're not super common but there are a bunch of 3 button pce games
the select button isnt even necessary here though. the SNES has 4 face buttons + L and R. That's 6. That's how games like SF2 work on the SNES.
zoomers are ignorant
Zoomers are the ones trying to come up with a "gotcha" over the OP not being 1000% literal. No one had to say it because the rest of us are adults with developed brains who know how to infer things without it being spoonfed to us.
because he obviously meant face buttons
this assumes the op has actually used a SNES controller and is aware that it has l and r buttons.
Once I learned the true power of 6 buttons it became hard to look back.
I have no strong feelings one way or the other, but when it comes to modern controllers, I'd rather have 6 face buttons than stupid shit like back buttons or those godforsaken analog clickers.
I like 4 because it's a lot easier to just think of "top button, left button, right button, bottom button" for muscle memory.
The SNES controller is the best ever
The shoulder buttons are one of the best inventions of mankind
They all developed later controllers starting from this
NES-SNES-PS1 then the Xbox came, and it was very gay, but that's another story
A 2 button Chad
Games never needed more than 2 action buttons
Spoken like a true zoomer.
Any amount of buttons more than 1 is unnecessary fluff.
Spoken like someone that never used that shit controller, it was trash
>he needs a button
That era is a tie but since I over played snes growing up, I would go with genesis
>Are you a four button bro or a six button bro?
>Posts two controllers that have six buttons
I'm a 3 button gay because my hand-me-down didn't have 6 button controllers.
Used to be a snes pad guy but swear by MD sixer now.
>be nintendo
>understand humans have more than 3 fingers
>make a controller that uses your index fingers
>meanwhile
>be sega
>make one finger operate 6 buttons
That's it. End of discussion.
shouldn't the joke be "more than two fingers" homie
Four. I can't hit those last two while holding down the the run button. I can give jump a tap while running, and give a cheeky little thumb knuckle to the top button while running. If I'm feeling particularly ambitious I can even do a running spin jump or whatever with that fricker over there on the right. Six face buttons? While holding down run? Without lifting your finger? Get the frick outta here.
>console
4
>arcade cabinet
6
Dont want to make a thread so I'll ask here: Is this shit any good for playing on the og sfc? I bought one recently but the dpad on one oem controller missing inputs sometimes even after cleaning the contacts and rubber.
I bought the receiver and use it with my NSO SNES controller and it works like a charm
no visible input delay if I press both the original and the wireless one
6 button genesis controller is the best gamepad every made
Six button is literally only useful for Street Fighter and every generation has more interesting fighting games than SF.
>Not being a three button master
ideally it'd be one button per finger
This should be the standard in gaming industry today.
Six right-thumb buttons plus two (and only two) triggers, not the gay ass four button, four triggers we have today.
Thank Sony for bringing the npc into gaming back in the 90's.
Is there a good reason for not having 6 face buttons?
I guess at this point the standard has crystallized and changing it would just add friction to any ports to your platform, which is also why the additional back buttons are exclusive to “pro” or “elite” controllers or whatever, even though they make a lot of sense for dual analogue games. I’ve gotten used to the claw, but it’s pretty stupid I had to suffer through that.
>Is there a good reason for not having 6 face buttons?
If your thumb is adult-sized (you'll notice that kids' games make most use of just A+B for this reason) you can press all four buttons in a diamond arrangement with minimal movement by putting it so that (on an xbox layout) your thumbtip is just between XY and you press AB by almost rolling your thumb onto it.
6 face buttons can't do this, so you'll be stuck with having two actions you can expect the player to use quickly at any one moment
How is that Neo Geo 8bitdo controller holding up? I've been playing lots of fightcade with a 8bitdo m30, but have wanted the neo geo one for the microswitch goodness.
It's really good. I never frick up any inputs with it, except for that one Kusaregedo command grab.
Speaking of, I've never played a SamSho game before. Should I start play SamSho 2 or go to 5 since that has the bigger cast?
They all have their fans. II, IV, and V Special are generally seen as the best iirc. IV on CD is the only one with a practice mode I think, so that one might be good for dipping your toes in.
Thanks!
No problem. And if you haven't yet, try Last Blade 1/2 also.
I'll have to look into those too. I've been on a MVS Cart binge and getting different carts of games I like from playing on fightcade. Granted I have looked at the Samsho V carts(didn't know was a base version and the special name was just flair) and the Last Blade carts and frick are they stupid expensive. That ramble aside, if definitely try them too. Thanks again!
6 button only makes sense for fighting games and even modern pad players make do with 4 buttons and mapping macros on the shoulder buttons
I have a couple of original Sega 3 button controllers but I'm struggling with using them because the facebuttons don't register unless I press down on them. Like, really fricking hard. I tried opening and cleaning with alcohol, no help.
How to fix?
I want to be a six buttan bro but no games support that shit.
im an og SNES console warrior since 1992 but i kinda like Megadrive controller better.
The SNES will hurt your hand after a few minutes and the Mega Drive is very awkward to hold and press, specially because the buttons aren't lined up in very logical ways.
The SNES controller is far too small without any handles, has awkward button spacing, a terrible D-pad incapable of diagonals, and makes anyone with appreciable hand size cramp after only moderate use. Sega's controllers are widely considered to be vastly better, and the PlayStation took the concept of the SNES controller and actually made it good.
I should not have problems with buttons set on a horizontal row after years of Gameboy and placing the thumb between the two buttons to double press easily, but three buttons on a row still confuses me when it comes to using them correctly with just one thumb (yes, I know that for fighting games you are supposed to rest the right side on your lap and use the fingers).
Example: Megaman X. (or X4) On a diamond layout, I Jump-dash with A-B, then change the thumb's angle so that I can shoot with Y while still having the bottom part of the thumb on B.
With a three button setup where C dashes, B jumps and A shoots, I find it harder to press C immediately after pressing A. And I don't even know if this makes sense at all or I am explaining myself correctly.
Since X4 allows remapping the controls, I ended using X to shoot instead of A, creating a pseudo diamond layout.