>Artificial Intelligence in RPGs.
this is going to enhance RPGs beyond my wildest dreams if used correctly. a few examples are:
>companions capable of in depth conversations for the entire length of a game, forming true friendships.
>towns and taverns with fully interacting patrons that will evolve into their own drunken shenanigans
>antagonists that can devise their own schemes to take over the world
>AI generated music, monsters, locations, puzzles, lore, stories.
this could be staggering, none of us would even play the same game. what say you /vrpg/? any ideas to add?
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For eveery good game generated there will be thousands that will fricking suck if we let the AI go wild. I see the application of AI in dialogue or some gameplay elements, but static plot elements will have to stay for the game not to devolve into complete randomness.
I don't want AI to take over the gaming industry. Not because of any ethical reasons but because I'd have to buy a new computer to run a game that's slamming me with four different AIs at once and giving me a 10fps experience. If someone's gonna use AI I hope it's all premade instead of generated on the spot because that sounds like a nightmare. Just imagine that shit glitching and landing the devs in hot water because the sexy elf girl most players don't even talk to starts going off about how much she hates gays if you ask about the place she lives in. Sounds funny, but that would get your game canned on most platforms.
no, what they'll do is have you connect to their server running the ai so that the game is a service and every interaction is tracked, catalogued, and sold. brave new world.
>paying for live service
I shiggy diggy
no, i hate that shit and have no interest in roleplaying with a language model. just being realistic.
kek agreed, the AI would have to live by some rules to guide the game to an ending of some kind.
would be an interesting experiment to see an uncensored AI run the game to whatever crazy world it ended up as. oh wait its been done and its called "Second Life"
That sounds like absolute moronic zoomer logic to me. Who would take meaningless small talk over dialogues made with dramatic intent? Similarly the art of narration has been perfected over the course of several thousand years. There are structures, conflicts and archetypes that have informed and shaped anything worth reading. This idea that suddenly none of that applies is ridiculous and embarrassing.
because RPGs get repetitive pretty quickly when you interact with NPCs. you should play some
but interacting with ai is really boring
Why would anyone want to spend hours talking to a npc instead of playing the game?
welcome to the world of the Skyrim coomer
>Skyrim coomer
Todd is getting desperate with these rereleases isn't he?
anytime i wonder why things cant be more creative there are literal braindead morons going "tch, why would anyone want to do that" because they literally cant think of a basic application for a tool.
consider an RPG wherein events dont have to be meticulously written for dozens of hours and you could just assign tags to shit to have it connect.
>random NPC guard dies out in the wilderness
>Captain in town becomes a questgiver when you talk to him
>retrieve the body/ belonging and bring it back for rep with the guards
>they open up and let you in on plot related questlines
talking to NPCs, unfortunately for you it seems is usually a fundamental frickin aspect of playing RPGs. It would take some effort and some creativity but the uses are there, problem is its only going to be used primarily to cut corners and make things "easier" in the laziest way possible instead of like Speedtree or terrain generation is now, only helping to implement actual ideas and images
what about that scenario even remotely requires generative AI though?
nothing. nothing about making a forest requires SpeedTree but it makes the process alot quicker. you dont need generative AI to do anything but if you want NPC interaction you can create an in depth system by using an LLM constrained to your game lore
its okay if you cant read but the basic idea and similar to such should be obvious to you if you just think for a bit lil buddy
>you dont get it tho
alright lad, a throwaway idea about "generative AI to create quest chains" is completely impossible with the current AI tools going around and i dont know what the function of them is, right
>i dont know what the function of them is, right
right, you are a midwit.
>literally just talking shit to talk shit
some people used to use this site to discuss ideas and not just be spastic c**ts browsing threads to jump in, say "um ackchually" and then tab out.
there have already been small games using "AI" and troglodytes like you come in to just say "so glorified chatbots" before continuing to complain about "the state of gaming"
>t. braindead moron
anon, you don't even understand the function of the tool
AI is the future luddites. If course there will be games utilising it poorly. Just like there is a million badly made unity games. But that doesn't mean it can't be used to it's full potential.
>luddites
Just like a dangerhair screaming nazi
there is nothing created by man that doesn't turn to shit, anon. just look around, this technological nightmare we find ourselves living in, where people are trained cogs in an immoral machine, and which you are desperate to escape from, proves the luddites right. progress is a faith without substance.
>AI is the future luddites
Reminder for the ignorant that what the Luddites were against was technology (automated looms) displacing a large number of well-paying skilled jobs, and replacing them with a small number of low-paying unskilled jobs. Don't worry, though, the ~~*cabal*~~ are working on the depopulation as we speak.
AI doesn't have the ability to surprise the player or give them anything they don't want. Every "storytelling" experience I've had with AI has been the most dull, droning bullshit of all time. It loses its novelty immediately.
Nvidia just released their local AI chatbot, no server or internet needed. can be trained on whatever data you give it.
I have taught mine the complete history of fantasy literature, its now my best friend
iwouldliketoknowmore.jpg
https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/ai-on-rtx/chat-with-rtx-generative-ai/
you need an RTX video card to use, the more memory it has the merrier
>OS: Windows 11
Ill be honest. I cant imagine It enhancinv any experience of a game, because ALL objectivity will be Lost the more complex It gets. By that I mean, everything is solvable and everything isnt, ALL well, its ALL a whim of the machine.
Most of your game time Will be spend on dialogues with a machine. Do you like that? If you do you are a homosexual.
That said, I think most people do, seeing the sucess of dating sim Baldur gays 3
i think there are an awful lot of people with nothing interesting to say and no one to talk to who isn't prone to mock them for their off-putting predilections. chatbots give them a feeling of acknowledgement they crave. it's a sad thing, because that's just calcifying their existing tendencies, there's no potential for growth.
Glad that you got my point seeing the mess I wrote. But really, It shocks me to see people get so excited with the potential of having lenghtier pointless conversations with a machine.
Really, I can only see these things slowing down games to such a degree that It becomes umbearable to play unless you are the loneliest man on earth.
I want games to have options and flexibility like anyone else, but I want things to be objective and not waste my time.
Seeing how so many people get attached to baldurs gays characters and their terrible romance plots though, I think the future of RPGs is already doomed. AI dating sims are the future of RPGs
AI can be used to flesh out the world, it doesnt have to be conversed with directly.
it could just fill a city with background activities which you can ignore entirely. unless you want "I used to be an adventurer like you until I took an arrow to the knee" every time you pass a guard.
This might work, but its not what OP is saying.
Besides, How would these many backgroound activities effectively add something to the game? If you are meant to Interact with them you are also meant to converse with them. And thus the chatbot talk problem is born.
>AI ... create a really difficult puzzle to escape this dungeon that has no online solution
it appeals not gonna lie
>companions capable of in depth conversations for the entire length of a game, forming true friendships.
No thanks, I am not keen on chaining myself up to always online for that sort of stuff.
I'll already be quite happy when they can feasibly give EVERY NPC some mid-tier dialog trees and backgrounds without paying $100Mio for more dangerhair writers
I heard an interesting point that AI has scrapped the entirety of the internet at this point. So it's moving on to fabricating data.
Instead of modeling content creators, it's modeling content curators.
Randomly generated NPC conversations will never take off because it will always ultimately be a mimicry, people will be able to recognize that the dialogue isn't hand written at a glance. If it is ever tried it will become a mark of low quality, like the MTL tag, and be forgotten. That's all ignoring the outrageous hardware requirement.
What I'm more interested in is how AI can improve random dungeon generation. I've always loved games with random dungeons but they're always made the same way: sets of generic rooms the devs handmade that are stitched together at the doors or through hallways. Eventually you recognize every type of room that can spawn and that's that. AI that can generate more complex levels without it looking like complete shit would be a dream come true for me, someone could make a game that just runs the AI for 30 minutes when you start a new game while it pre-generates your game's dungeon.
Bethesda cant write dialog for toffee. they'll be using AI immediately
AI's just modern mysticism: no reason to believe in it save faith in the prophets who proclaim it's coming.
Even with today's tech, ai text adventure/storytelling is really cool. You can create your own open ended story in worlds both oc and pre existing. You just need to learn how to tardwrangle the ai, which is annoying.
>OMG GUYS, VIDEO GAMES WILL BE MORE LIKE REAL LIFE
>AREN'T YOU EXCITED?
If I wanted real life I wouldn't be playing video games.
I wouldn't be surprised if AI dialogue outclasses handcrafted dialogue. game developers can't always be amazing writers.
And none of that matters. Can I cut the power to a building and infiltrate it? Can I purchase badges and uniforms to blend myself into an area? Can I drive a car and then ram it through the front of a building and into the lobby? Can I rent a carriage and bring a ladder to get on top of a building? Can I dig a hole?
Letting the player be creative in their solutions is the most important thing, simple conversations with a bot doesn't matter.
>What makes you think AI can't do that
Because everything it does do already exists. It can't do a video RPG with that amount of depth because it is an undertaking to layer so many complex systems over one another with believable outcomes, or at least fun enough for a game. If you want a chat bot you can already do that without game software.
Oh sweet summerchild
>this is going to enhance RPGs beyond my wildest dreams if used correctly.
I cant wait for every game to become even more mass produced garbage than it already was yesss suck out the last piece of soul out of it make it as generic as possible.
Make gaming as profitable for the executives as possible!
>companions capable of in depth conversations for the entire length of a game, forming true friendships.
A AI chatbot that feels just just like having a real f-friend!?!?
WOAH
>AI generated music, monsters, locations, puzzles, lore, stories.
Sounds like garbage.
Now It feels like Im having sex with a real woman!!
>things will get worse in every capacity
Don't remind me, this is the shittiest dystopia possible.
how many RPGs ever made have actual good writing? not a damn lot. lets face it AI will improve the slop
Precedent already shows it will just increase the amount of slop. People love slop.
>lets face it AI will improve the slop
>AI, give me a story for a video game RPG
>Pulls stories across all others in the medium
That is all "AI" has done. If you think everything is slop then the AI will output slop because it can only reference slop.
People will say "Write the main quest chain of my rpg in Tolkien style"
>get shitty songs every 5 minutes
>quest is just endless walking
wow
typing to AI is a pain in the ass, but being able to voice chat on quests could be comfy, ask it for advice about the upcoming mission etc.
>Microsoft investing billions into AI
>Microsoft own Bethesda
Microsoft dont want another flop like Starfield
you can bet your fat ass that Elder Scrolls 6 will be AI driven
People didn't like starfield because of procedural generation, why would the fix for that be more procgen?
the AI can add actual content this time
Define content.
enemies, locations, missions, population.
Vgh, It'd be the next oblivion.
>Stop right there criminal- there was an error generating a response."
People hated Starfield because they forgot to generate anything lol
It's much faster and cheaper to proofread and try again on something created by a bot in 30 seconds than deal with multiple day cycles across timezones
See the problem with this whole concept is that we already have infinite asset generation in the form of the Indian subcontinent.
>quantity before quality
consider drinking bleach
>quantity before quality
that's what AI is though
>companions capable of in depth conversations for the entire length of a game, forming true friendships.
Irrelevant. I play solo and don't build a party.
>a true friendship is one that you form with an AI
so this is why AI defenders are so diehard, they literally think AI is their friend
I was thinking about use of LLMs in games, I think its going to be really trash.
>dialog options
You will have to either type down or speak with the NPC using your own voice, if I have to start doing this for every NPC I'm not going to play your game, I don't want to work, I want to have fun.
>hallucinations
LLM can hallucinate, NPCs can go out of character and start talking about unrelated subjects.
>the average player is a schizo
If you don't enforce roleplaying rules, the player is going to do everything its power to frick up the game, and with a LLM it will permanently destroy the whole game.
I doubt major releases would use live AI in this decade. The tech is too expensive and is a brand risk. They'd just pre-gen dialog and review it instead of spending time writing it, same as they do now with AI art for mobile games.
we can run LLM in local machines, image detection and interpretation is decades old, the tech needed to run these tools are not that expensive anymore, the current state of AI is good enough for video games, the problem is that you have to tard wrangle your tool to do what you want and even then it can go out of script.
>we can run LLM in local machines
Not the good ones and not on budget builds or consoles
>have to tard wrangle your tool to do what you want and even then it can go out of script
Yes, exactly
Yeah, they don't hallucinate, they just predict the next series of letters. It's humans that interpret it and understand they're not conceptually related. That's the problem, it has no real concepts of anything.
Whenever you think of something as a magical black box it always seems like it will solve all problems. The reality is that AI is just a collection of techniques, and as technology advances, people say AI techniques of previous years are no longer AI. If you're talking about currently popular techniques then they're really just statistical models, universal function approximation, mapping input to output with adjusted weighting from many examples. Generative AI is basically putting the system in reverse, but it's still just interrogating a statistical description.
Given that, how much of what you're hoping for can actually be achieved with such techniques? How long until you get bored of statistical slop? At best these current models are only going to be good for first (naive) impressions or for filling in the background, but you don't really need AI for that.
Have you actually tried to hold a conversation with avg. zoomer though? It's difficult to talk to millennials still, there isn't much going on up there but corporate programming in the first place.
I can unironically say midjourney was more creative than most of them.
You would be incorrect. These models are descriptive, not creative; the creative part already occurred when the training data was originally produced. If they can produce something that can be mistaken as creative output then that is because you're naive to the input and/or the statistical distribution. People already call AI art slop, precisely because it all starts to look the same, and the only way it looks good is when it's biased to certain artists. It hasn't distilled a creative process in any capacity, it's merely describing a possible output based on historical input. Whether or not you are able to find people of any age group that can hold a conversation or produce interesting work seems like a personal issue.
You can make maybe one or two games with similar genre and themes before you get bored or start to recognize signs of similarity almost as if they were asset flipping. That kills any hope of using these models for game dev as just a fever dream of the misinformed.
I agree that AI is going to be this generation's version of the internet revolution.
However, it's also not going to be in a viable use for consumer use for at somewhere in the realm of 5-15 years. 5 years for shitty beta tests of the technology, 15 years for it to actually function somewhat seamlessly in a way video games can use without being ultrajank.
>revolution
>beta tests
You guys talk in weird ways about 80+ year old technology scaled up and reconfigured.