I really like Root. In fact I own each expansion and haven't played the same game twice yet. Haven't tried Oath.
What are some other good tabletop wargames? Preferably ones I can bring over a for a half-day of fun that don't involve painting models. Also if you have played Root please discuss stories or strategies. I'll go first:
>favorite faction are the Riverfolk Company (otters)
>great to teach new players the game with because being a salesman and selling other players cards is a natural way to discuss game mechanics
>I also love planting mercenary troops in choke points and extorting other players
>the endgame otterball bulldozer is fun if you can pull it off
ad&d + battlesystem
thank you
A lot of other wargames might seem less interesting to you if you're very into Root, because Root is basically designed to be played a lot of times by people who know the game. How many people do you usually play with?
I usually play with the same 3-4 people with 1-2 randoms every now and then, about once every two weeks
OK so I don't know if you want a true wargame or just conflict-driven board games. If it's the latter there are three board games from Matagot (this style of game is usually called "dudes on a map")
>Inis
>Kemet
>Cyclades
Kemet is the most aggressive of these. They're all pretty popular and accessible and work for 4-5 players.
CMON has put out many games along these lines as well.
>Blood Rage
>Rising Sun
>Ankh
These are all designed by Eric Lang, who's kind of a meme in /bgg/ but is a popular designer on the wider internet. These ones will be fine for 4+ players.
A lot of true wargames tend to have restricted player counts. There's a game by Matt Calkins I really like called Sekigahara, but it's 2 player only. There's a series of block wargames that are pretty accessible by Columbia Games but they're usually just 2 or 3 player:
>Hammer of the Scots
>The Wars of the Roses
>Julius Caesar
They're called block wargames because you're literally moving blocks around, and usually there is some information you can see on your block on one side of the board the opponent cannot see.
Root is often compared to a type of game called COIN, or COunter INsurgery. A lot of these games come from a designer named Volko Ruhnke who is a literal CIA agent. Games to look at here would be things like:
>Falling Sky
>Cuba Libre
>Fire in the Lake
These are usually good for 3+ player counts but often, like Root, require a certain minimum of players for everything to work well too.
Another one to shout out here would be Pax Pamir 2e, a game about the 19th century occupation of Afghanistan by the same designer as Root. It's again not exactly a wargame, but it's very cutthroat and conflict-driven. That leads to a whole other section of 'Pax' games that I won't go into.
Memoir '44 is the most popular wargame I know of about WW2, but I haven't played it so I can't comment on it. War of the Ring is an extremely thematic LotR war game that is great if you regularly play with 2 or 4.
>Memoir '44 is the most popular wargame I know of about WW2, but I haven't played it so I can't comment on it.
Memoir '44 is a dudes-on-hex tactical skirmish game, streamlined. For people who don't want to commit to a proper miniatures skirmish firefight game. Special symbol dice to roll, hex weapon ranges, special hex modifiers (IE sandbags, hill, barbed wire, buildings as cover, etc). It feels swingy because of the dice, but the better player with better tactics will usually win.
Games are played twice, switching sides because it's heavily asymmetric. You score points that carry into the second go as the other side, so you can still win even if you lost the first round. The best strategy is losing better than the other guy when it's your turn with the shitty side of a scenario.
Now see, I'm a seasoned Board gamer and I've never heard about those COIN games. And you got me EXTREMELY interested. Thanks bro
I love Inis. Really love a "war" game that gets away from throwing dice and Inis does that. The only gripe I have with it is someone could totally horde most of the special cards and snowball their way to victory. Doesn't happen often but it could.
Great list, I have been meaning to check out a number of these games.
Do you want a wargame or a board game?
I guess Root is more of a board game than a wargame but I like what it's hinting at, so I guess both!
thanks for the list of games! It will be a hard pick between Kemet and Cyclades. I like Greek myths so I'm leaning towards Cyclades at this time. The Eric Lang games also look interesting, I will look more into them.
But it's the COIN games you list which are exactly what I was trying to describe. Thanks a bunch anon! I'm going over them right now on another tab
I've only played Duchy once but I liked them a lot. How exactly do you do a ministers-only run? I understand the building mechanic well enough but I'm curious how you keep generating the cards to keep getting more of the expensive ministers.
>woodland alliance
Oddly very few people in my group seem to pick them. I like them from what I played but once I got my hands on otters I haven't really played any other insurgencies since. I'll keep that deck in mind in case I want to try them out again
>How exactly do you do a ministers-only run? I understand the building mechanic well enough but I'm curious how you keep generating the cards to keep getting more of the expensive ministers.
There's a couple of keys. Remember that when recruiting a minister with cards that aren't birds, you merely reveal them, don't discard them. You also do not need to rule a clearing to sway, just be present. This means you can kinda sit in a corner with the same 4 cards and keep swaying ministers - cards aren't usually the limiting factor for this strategy. In terms of scoring, you get Duchess of Mud so you can score off tunnels instead of buildings. This strategy is potent against more passive tables that just want to blow up your buildings like WA or Lizard Cult but bad against aggressive factions that want to kill your guys like Keepers or LotH. This is because no buildings has major recruiting issues. You can do all the actions of your turn you want with ministers (mayor + brigadier + marshal + captain gives you tons of action economy) but nothing will replace your moles or dig new tunnels other than using precious main actions, which you only get 2. Because of this you don't have a lot of spare troops and do not want to take battles that aren't critical, a lot like how you play cats.
I also like Otters, but I grew to really like Underground Duchy and they took over as my favorite. They have an extremely flexible faction that can go for a completely different gameplan depending on what is at the table.
>Lizards making you worried about price of faillure? Completely viable to go no buildings and focus on just ministers
>Table super crowded with aggressive factions? Lock down a single 2/3-building clearing and play money moles (markets+banker)
>Table full of insurgents unlikely to attack you directly like otters+vb+wa? Grow obnoxiously fast, gain all your buildings and ministers, overwhelm them with your plan
The only faction I can't stand is woodland alliance. I hate these frickers like you wouldn't believe and I honestly believe anyone who doesn't hate WA is still in the newbie phase where they haven't played enough to understand the meta. WA can grow exponentially fast and there is very little nuance to their strategy. And trying to take out one of their bases directly is a nightmare. Fortunately owning E&P deck makes them somewhat more manageable. False Orders and Propaganda Bureau can be key to fricking up their plans. Corvid Conspiracy feels like a much more fair insurgent faction.
I've seen Root in some game stores and been intrigued by it. Can you sell me on it beyond the charming art direction?
I'll try my best! Besides the cutesy artwork, the game itself is a pretty brutal faction game. Each faction is unique, which makes the game asymmetric and puts a huge focus on strategy and trying to balance how well other players are pursuing their own goals.
Each faction generates points by doing specific tasks with specific mechanics. The first to 30 points wins the game, but you can also win if you play a "dominance card" which has you defend certain parts of the board for a whole turn (this is hard to pull off because all other players will immediately try to take those areas from you). There are two sorts of factions: empires and insurgenices. In general, empire factions (cats, birds, moles, rats) have a lot of troops while insurgencies (everyone else) have a lot of tricks.
Once everyone knows what they're doing the game feels more like an ecosystem trying to reach a balance than it does a straightforward competition. It's kind of like "crabs in a bucket" mentality but fun. I may have forgot a lot since I just typed this without editing but I hope it helps!
Sounds britty gud, honestly. I like asymmetric faction games like Here I Stand so that sounds appealing
I love Root, but I can never get anyone to play it enough to finally get a game that isn't just everyone trying to figure out the rules for their factions, only to realize at the end that they misread one and so shit themselves in the foot for that game. Still remember the game I played the Corvids and didn't realize that you recruited three units instead of just one.
From the same designer, Pax Pamir 2nd Edition is a popular choice.
The Pax games use a card market to build a Tableau of asymmetric turn options, rather than having factions that start asymmetric. Pax Pamir 2e, over other Pax games, is centered around an allegiance to one of three coalitions on the map. Rather than having your own army, you are simply aligned with a coalition, and can change allegiance to another if you demonstrate loyalty (playing loyalist card, or assassinating coalition target). You score VP by being on the dominant coalition, or stalling the conflict while having the most agents involved.
The card market is a mostly closed economy, which is it's own strategy for the game's money flow. Cards do things when played (usually placing new armies, roads, spies, tribes), and once in your Tableau offer actions you can pick as one of your turn actions (usually using armies, roads, spies, tribes). Ruling regions with tribes, taxation and tax evasion, and bribes are important.
It's got the same VP rush and end-game kingmaking concessions that Root has, go figure it's the same designer.
great recommend!
thank you for the compliment
NTA but it’s not so much a compliment as just accurate. You’ve started with a game that’s above the curve in complexity, so a lot of ordinary devs might seem simple to you.
Learn and successfully spring Pax Renaissance on your group and we will all lavish you with real compliments. It's a solid 4 to 4.5 of 5 complexity and worth the effort, with the main caveat being it's best for 2-3 players, not 4.
Honestly getting a reliable group with just Root is a huge accomplishment. I still can't get my own local group beyond baby's first Euros.
>Baby's First Tabletops
Root isn't a baby's first. It's a solid between 3.5 and 4.0 out of 5 complexity, with a lot of learning curve from the asymmetry. You're probably ready to tackle stuff that's mid-tier and above.
My favorite 4 player wargame is Successors. I have GMT's third edition, which is OOP and a touch pricey. There's a 4th edition from Phalanx which I've heard good things about, though its production makes it pricey, too.
Ny favorite five player "wargame" is Revolution: The Dutch Revolt 1568 - 1648. It never sold well, so you can find it for cheap. It's more boardgame than wargame, though
Thunder Road:Vendetta just came out. A remake of a 1985 Mad Max game where you race a team of cars and try to blow up your opponents.
Take a look at the COIN-series from GMT if you like asymmetrical boardgames. My personal favourite is "A Distant Plain" that deals with the war in Afghanistan with four different factions with goals that both intersect and oppose eachother. Most fun faction in my opinon is the Warlords (non-pashtun tribal elders/warlords/opium smugglers). Your goals is an independent Afghanistan without a central government. Low map presence but can and should deal with all others.
I have had great fun--in some ways the most boardgame fun of all, though that may be due to the groups I played with--with Junta. Cooperate, cajole, connive, back-stab--whatever it takes to be the one with the most in the bank at the end. I'm not sure if later editions changed anything other than the make of the components.
Junta was the fun handful of times I played it. Then my wife and brother and law strangled us hoggging and never playing every assassination card, and even the coups couldnt oust them.
We stopped playing after that.
My preferred wargame. Good amount of randomization and kingmaking, but enough strategy to punish poor play.
I am an idiot