>base the Genesis on the System 16
>console does reasonably well
>make the Model 2 prohibitively expensive for no reason so the Saturn's architecture is a hodgepodge of complicated bullshit
>console is a flop
>base the Dreamcast on the Naomi
>console does reasonably well during its short shelf life
lol
>make the Model 2 prohibitively expensive for no reason so the Saturn's architecture is a hodgepodge of complicated bullshit
>console is a flop
Well they should have based Sega Saturn on Model 1 architecture. It was great for 3D.
>Model 2
>Model 1
> Sega Saturn
op is kinda right in his opinion yet the only common thing between the three architectures was the sound MC68000
Very limited texture mapping capability, if any at all.
So what? You think Nintendo 64 was high end?
Virtua Racing on Model 1 was way better than Sega 32x or Sega Saturn release. Higher framerate, more polygons, etc. Sega Model 1 is cheaper arcade hardware, gets the 3D job done, and isnt as expensive as model 2.
So I think you better get some motherfricking textures in there. Even Model 1 Virtua Fighter looks like ass compared to Saturn Virtua Fighter 2. Texture is king.
And yet all the Model 1 ports to Sega Saturn look like ass.
>Oh noes the flat color polygons ports look like ass
That's because they are flat color polygons and flat color polygons invariably look like ass. Put some fricking Textures in. Like Virtua Fighter Remix, 100x improvement.
Sega Model 1 was capable of some texture mapping. But Sega didn't really take advantage of it. Sure they made skme games, but the arcade team had already moved on to making the Sega Model 2 the following year.
You have to understand that Sega in the 1980s to Mid 1990s was OBSESSED about constantly releasing new arcade boards. They were releasing a new arcade board almost every single year.
If you look at Model 2, Sega released several upgraded Model. 2 boards over a 3 year period. Each new revision added better graphics chips, newer and better sound chips, more ram, etc. Model 2 was wildly popular and Sega was milking the hell out of that board.
If Sega wanted to, they could could have revised the Model 1 board and added some better support for Texture mapping (just as they did for Model 2). Then release that version for Saturn.
Pretty much. Sega made Model 1, cranked out some games fast, then moved on to new hardware. The arcade business was all about new hardware asap. Not sitting and supporting hardware for 5 to 6 years like console business
Ehh, depends on the hardware tbh. SNK rode the Neo Geo wave for 15 years. Sega(-Sammy) themselves rode the NAOMI variants for about 8 years as well.
SNK tried to release sequels to the original Neo Geo. But they botched it with the Hyper Neo Geo 64.
But the original Neo Geo was so popular that it sold 2 million units and lasted 10 years.
>The arcade business was all about new hardware asap.
Too bad it means most of the boards are flaky and unreliable as frick. Forget ever owning a real Sega cab for anything made after 1984, they always shit themselves and are totally unrepairable so MAME is the only way to play those games. Thankfully there's that guy who does decaps of arcade chipsets so they can be recreated in FPGA.
that's most arcade cabs. they expect you to play them for a year and move on to the next hot game so reliability isn't taken into account.
>Too bad it means most of the boards are flaky and unreliable as frick.
>Forget ever owning a real Sega cab for anything made after 1984, they always shit themselves and are totally unrepairable
You need to understand that arcade machines were used and abused. They were ran almost 24/7 in arcade shops. Almost non-stop service for years. Tens of Thousands of people playing and abusing the machine. Kids banging on the arcade cabinet, or adults smashing the controls. No way a console could survive such an environment. They would break down fast.
Then again Ms. Pac-Man and Galaga cabs always seemed to be almost indestructible and many were in use into the 2000s.
those were solid but some others like Williams cabs were not because Williams liked to push components to the edge of their rated specs for max performance so they didn't hold up too well.
Dust build-up inside cabs would cause overheating. I'm still impressed at the durability of those Ms. Pac-Man cabs though.
I own a Virtua Racing Sega cab. It's the upright model. It really depends on the arcade board. Some are rock solid. Others are flaky.
Whats given me real issues was the CRT screen my VR arcade cab came with. Very Junky and didn't work right. Not a good brand. Every time I repaired the thing, it would work for a while, then break again. After 4 times I gave up on it.
I ripped it out and put in a more reliable Well Gardner K7000 CRT.
Ridge Racer--all of those died within six months and there are no working ones left in existence. That particular cab was quite notorious.
Caius is the FPGA guy you're referring to.
>Ridge Racer--all of those died within six months and there are no working ones left in existence. That particular cab was quite notorious.
Wait what? Which ridge racer cab? There's like 8 different ones.
The first one from '93.
This one?
yes that thing. the GPU boards always self-destruct.
I don't know about all that but I have a Dreamcast in the mail and I'm super excited to get it. I've never seen one irl before.
greatest console of all time. also it has skies of peakcadia
I'm really butthurt because it got discontinued early and the library didn't have enough time to grow. Imagine all the other godlike games it could have gotten. I don't even know why. Yeah the PS2 was lit as heck, but the Dreamcast was sick as hell too. I gotta figure out some games I wanna play on it. I for sure know I want Justice League and Shenpoo. I wanna play fighting games on my DIY Dreamcast supported arcade stick. Gotta find some cool RPGs as well.
"greatest console" was definitely hyperbole on my end (my fav console is ps2) but dc is up there. its nuts how good the library was for only 2 years of shelf life
Yeah it's easy to have the PS2 as your fav. I own 6 of them on accident.
Maybe that's what killed it.
>Maybe that's what killed it
>people still believe this
I just didn't want to leave anon without a reply but had nothing to say at the same time.
At least the lack of copy protection lead to a great homebrew scene.
>great homebrew scene.
like what
>I gotta figure out some games I wanna play on it
Start learning Japanese. Most of the library was Japan exclusive. Also, get a gdemu.
It's a cool console. moronic (loudest disc reading in console history, laughably short controller battery life resulting in a BEEEEP at every console start up, poor build quality on an otherwise well designed controller, etc), but it has some great games. Shenmue is a 10/10.
Controllers use batteries or are you talking about the battery on the controller board inside the Godcast?
>Saturn > mega drive > Dreamcast > master system
Go back to your "reasons why failed" vids
>console is a flop
>console does reasonably well during its short shelf life
The Saturn outsold the Dreamcast, anon. Both were on the market for around the same amount of time. This narrative that you're trying to spin is stupid and inaccurate.
>Both were on the market for around the same amount of time.
Lolwut
Saturn was on the market for about 5 years.
Dreamcast was on the market for 18 months.
>Both were on the market for around the same amount of time.
The dreamcast was on the market for less than half the time the Saturn was.
The Saturn released in Holiday of 1994 and was killed in May 1997. The Dreamcast released in 1998 and was killed some time in early 2001.
>was killed in May 1997
No it wasn't. Sega didn't officially discontinue Saturn production until mid 2000 in Japan. They kept it around.
Saturn sales fell off a cliff in May 1997 after a certain someone destroyed the only market they were successful in and permanently ruined the brand image of the company.
Saturn sold 9.26m, Dreamcast sold 9.13m
>Saturn sales fell off a cliff in May 1997 after a certain someone destroyed the only market they were successful in and permanently ruined the brand image of the company.
No, moron, the Saturn didn't fail because Tom Kalinski wouldn't localize shitty dating sims.
Tom Kalinske didn't work at Sega at that time, moron.
Bernie Stolar made a moron comment that was widely reported on in Japan and killed the Japanese market practically overnight. Basically nobody was buying anything Saturn related after May 1997.
Where the hell are you sourcing those numbers? The Dreamcast didn't hit 10 million in it's lifetime.
No but Kalinski was very committed to the idea of Sega targeting jock bros who wanted sports and fighting games. The fricker wanted to re-skin Popful Mail SCD as Sanic slop until people sent in letter writing petitions asking for the game to be localized as it was.
>The fricker wanted to re-skin Popful Mail SCD as Sanic slop until people sent in letter writing petitions asking for the game to be localized as it was.
Sister Sonic was Sega of Japan's doing, not Kalinske.
>widely reported on in Japan
I doubt this was the case. Do you have any source in Japanese corroborating this?
>Do you have any source in Japanese corroborating this?
Literally every Japanese gaming magazine in the first few months following the statement. Go read the scans.
I skimmed some of the scans on Sega Retro circa July 1997 and saw none. If you have a specific magazine issue in mind that'd be great.
>Bernie Stolar made a moron comment that was widely reported on in Japan and killed the Japanese market practically overnight. Basically nobody was buying anything Saturn related after May 1997.
Saturn sales were already in the dumps before Bernie said anything. There was no hope for Saturn. PS1 crushed Saturn. N64 crushed Saturn.
>Where the hell are you sourcing those numbers? The Dreamcast didn't hit 10 million in it's lifetime.
Not that anon, but those are official numbers. Stop looking Wikipedia (which is barely even updated) and look at actual gaming websites that specialize in this. You will find all the info there. Hell you could just Google anon's numbers and see for yourself.
>N64 crushed Saturn
Total N64 games: 388
Total Saturn games: 1027
Nintendo 64 consoles sold: 34 million
Saturn consoles sold: 9 million
Most of the N64 library was actual games while a large amount of the Saturn library was VNs and other non game slop. Also N64 sold 30 million units worldwide while Saturn sold just 9 million.
10.6 millions according to japanese wikipedia.
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83%89%E3%83%AA%E3%83%BC%E3%83%A0%E3%82%AD%E3%83%A3%E3%82%B9%E3%83%88
9.13 millions according to english wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreamcast
8.6 millions according to french wikipedia
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreamcast
>10.6 millions according to japanese wikipedia.
This is the correct and final number.
Then Sega ceased production of Dreamcast and all factories shut down. So no more Dreamcasts could be made.
>9.13 millions according to english wikipedia
Old number from an earlier financial report.
>8.6 millions according to french wikipedia
This is from a much earlier financial report. It's very outdated.
Isao Okawa destroyed the Japanese market in May 1997?
>As of 2002, the Dreamcast sold 10.6 million units worldwide
>5.43 million in the United States
>2.86 million in Asia
>1.79 million in Europe
Nope. Dreamcast outsold Saturn
>Dreamcast outsold Saturn
Only in worthless markets like the US, where gamers seemed to have completely forgotten the Saturn existed 3 minutes after it launched, and then gotten excited for a new console from the guys who did the Genesis when the DC came around.
The Saturn did get some good games, but Sony had the better dev kits and were more welcoming to devs. Sega were pretty moronic in terms of licensing deals. With hindsight, I'd say that the main failing of Sega was the power imbalance between SoA and SoJ, the Mega Drive created resentment and SoJ were ultimately happy to see SoA fail, which isn't conducive to good business. Europe was a major powerhouse for Sony, Psygnosis alone could've honestly tipped the balance to Sega.
Ultimately, Sega fell behind too early to catch up. SoJ's decision to just release the console ASAP because Virtua Fighter was doing well in Japan, and SoA being completely and utterly unprepared for a strong competitor releasing in the same timeframe, is what killed the Saturn.
>The Saturn outsold the Dreamcast, anon.
Dreamcast sold 10.6 million units worldwide.
Sega Saturn sold 9.2 million.
Haha b***hass saturn keep your L lil bro.
Saturn and Dreamcast sold about the same, dumbass.
And the Saturn was supported for more than twice as long.
https://forums.arcade-museum.com/threads/video-glitches-in-ridge-racer.316001/
He suggests that power supply issues can be a cause of problems with Ridge Racer. The ICs can misbehave if the voltage level is not exactly on-spec.
Dang. You posted 12 minutes before me. I was going to suggest a power supply problem.
I know a lot of people love keeping arcade cabinets original, but I don't mess around with power supplies. Sorry but those things are 30 years old or more. One of the first things I do when I get a cab is rip out the old power supply and put a modern replacement. I've lost entire cabinets because the power supply messed up and destroyed everything it was connected to including the arcade board . Never again. Old power supplies must go. Don't care about keeping it all original. 30 year old power supplies are crazy.
that's a direct result of the harsh conditions arcade cabs run under that degrade power supplies. heat and dust build up will cause bad things to happen.
It's just general wear and tear too. These machines are old. There's a reason we don't see many of them in arcades anymore. They can't take the abuse like they could when they were fresh from the factory. And spare parts aren't available anymore.
why does this read like it was copypasted from a subreddit?
Acsually it had more to do with availability of replacement CRTs being cut off in the 2000s. I would see lots of cabs still active and in use right up until they couldn't get new CRTs and them all of them vanished as if by magic.
>I would see lots of cabs still active and in use right up until they
Well, some cabs if they were among the better designed ones. Most of the problem child ones disappeared from use early on.
I find it safe to assume if you saw a particular cab operating into the Bush years it was probably one of the better designed ones. Reliability probably did get worse overall after the early 80s as the complexity of the things increased. There is a _large_ difference between Ridge Racer and Dig Dug.
that is true. arcade cabs have harsh operating conditions that would be worsened by the more delicate, high precision parts in setups like the Namco System 22. those 3D boards are really complex and can't take abuse the way a Pac-Man cab could.
https://forums.arcade-museum.com/threads/newb-question-switching-power-supply-what-does-that-mean-exactly.91045/
You can definitely keep original PSUs; if it's a linear power supply they're pretty easy to repair. Switching PSUs are easier to replace than repair although it can be done if you're that dedicated.
>You can definitely keep original PSUs; if it's a linear power supply they're
I respect that you can keep original PSUs, but why would you want to risk it? I've seen some nasty power supplies that are covered in dust and half rusted. The owner replaced the caps, but there's still a risk of something going wrong and destroying your hardware. Just rip it out and put in a modern switching power supply. If you have a rare arcade board, don't risk it.
The biggest problem is overvoltage. You can always turn it up a bit to make sure the game is getting a steady 5v, but giving them too much can result in actual problems. Naomi cartridges are notorious for having shit quality buffer chips which are prone to premature death if they get too much over 5v, even amounts which are technically within the usual tolerance range. I run my Naomi setup with just a hair under 5v at the JVS power connectors and don't notice any gameplay problems.
If the Saturn got good games, would it have saved the Saturn?
Well, the Sega Model hardware was top of the line, much better than most other arcadd 3D of the era, so clearly they were putting it all on the line for their arcade side of the business. I guess the alternative would've been going straight on to the lower quality ST-V, which is basically Saturn for the arcade, and not have established strong dominance in the realm of 3D arcade hardware during the mid 90s.
Also Japanese companies are buttheaded nationalistic morons. NOJ were mad that the N64 didn't sell squal in Japan while SOJ considered the Saturn a success because it did sell some there even if it bombed elsewhere.
Both sold 5 million consoles in Japan, but Nintendo had higher standards than Sega.
>Nintendo: "Wtf just 5 million in Japan? What is this shit? We should be at least double that. At least we still have North America and Europe."
>Sega: "Yay! 5 million. Japan finally acknowledged us after 3 failed consoles. Western markets? Hahaha. Who cares about them! Japan finally noticed us. That's what matters"
Sega were always on the backfoot, but every one of their consoles did better than the last one until the DC. The Genesis was an anomaly because the PC Engine completely failed in the west, leaving SoA with zero competitors for a couple of years and gave them plenty of momentum.
Nintendo were disappointed with the N64 because it sold so much less than the SNES, while Sega were happy with the Saturn because it sold much more than the Mega Drive.
>every one of their consoles did better than the last one until the DC
DC outsold Saturn in just 18 months compared to Saturn being on the market for 5 years.
Because the DC did better in the irrelevant US market, where SoA were so delusional they were giving consoles away with cereal boxes. The reason they canned it so early was that their console division was losing too much money and the attempt to make Sega a home console company had failed.
I'm also a Saturngay (kinda) but this is high level delusion.