https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/baxcalibur-is-banned-from-sv-ou.3727992/
Told you that Scale Shot would push it over the edge
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Baxcalibur quickbanned from OU
Smogon is a joke meta. VGC is clearly to superior choice.
Both are bad because Pokemon is inherently unbalanced
Singles is unbalanced.
>GOD I LOVE PALAFIN AMOONGUS ARCANINE FLUTTER-MANE IRON HANDS CHIEN-PAO MIRROR MATCHES
You don't play the game, neither singles or VGC
Arcanine and Palafin haven't been relevant in months
"Mirror matches" aren't actually mirror matches though. Unlike in Smogon, in VGC Pokemon don't just run 252 252 4. There's so much variety in sets just having the same Pokemon doesn't mean anything.
>no way bro there's variety!! you just can't see it lol
I hate VGCucks so much. Smogon doesn't only run 252 252 4 you know
fippy bippy
they literally did a survey and people overwhelmingly wanted baxcalibur banned (i was one of those people, having Ninetales-alola in the format + scale shot just makes it a massive pain to deal with). its not like they're tyrants that solely make decisions on their own, they generally listen to the community bc if they didn't then no one would play smogon obviously.
why the frick does /vp/ get so autistically ass mad whenever something gets banned?? do you guys just want there to be no tiers, no rules, and for every team to have 6 miraidons on it?? because that's what it seems like to me
It literally shouldn’t be possible to vote for a ban 2 days in
Why not Bax was already a prime candidate for a suspect test before the DLC. But it has gotten even considerably more powerful afterwards. Like the other Anon said, a Pokémon that is more controversial like Volcarona should've been properly suspected, but if a Pokémon is known to be uncompeitive, and everyone knows and agrees why it's broken, why bother even entertaining the idea that the majority of the playerbase want it still around?
Smogshit will always be a fanfic and will never be real pokemon
>vgcucks are pajeets
You learn something new every day!
>hasn't even been a fricking week
Smogon's decision makers are the biggest pussies in competitive gaming. They would've banned Belmont in week 1 of Smash Ultimate and Potemkin in week 1 of Strive.
These homosexuals have no idea how metagames develop.
Baxcalibur was a problem before the DLC. Scale Shot + the return of Alolan Ninetales just gave it more tools to work with
100+ new pokemon and 20 new moves but you can already identify the overpowered pokemon in 2 days? No need to let the metagame develop? No need to try counter strategies? No need to even have a community vote?
>100+ new pokemon and 20 new moves but you can already identify the overpowered pokemon in 2 days?
Yeah? I think the ban was too quick myself, but you can pretty much tell what's gonna be busted outright from the getgo. Like the other anons said, he was strong already and likely to be suspected, and the DLC simply made him even stronger.
I think it's really dangerous to ban stuff just because it looks like it will probably be broken.
I also think it's asinine to pretend that there was no chance a ton of new pokemon and moves could push Baxcalibur down, even if it was already in danger of a suspect test.
But mostly I think "quick bans" are cringe pussy shit and a tool for the council to shape the metagame to their whims instead of actually trying to make it healthier.
I mean, it wasn't a "probably" in this case since they didn't ban it pre-emptively, it was pretty broken. Better this than a Dracovish situation where most teams are forced to carry trash like Seismitoad just for Dracovish and nothing else.
>they didn't ban it pre-emptively
I think banning anything after 2 days is pretty much indistinguishable from banning it preemptively. There's still no time for the metagame to develop.
>There's still no time for the metagame to develop.
I for one was sick of them using this excuse to avoid even testing shit like Toxapex back when it was the most dominant wall so I'm glad they're cutting out the cancer faster.
Sorry bro if I have to run countermeasures to common metagame tactics then the meta is broken
A healthy metagame is one where we slog back and forth for 60 turns and even though the result is deterministic we don't actually know who will win because it takes longer
>a tool for the council to shape the metagame to their whims
That's what they always have been.
It's funny that it took Volcarona getting banned by the council for the bootlickers to realize that the council isn't good.
>But mostly I think "quick bans" are cringe pussy shit and a tool for the council to shape the metagame to their whims
It is precisely that and has been Smogon's Modus Operandi since the beginning of its existence. It was never about balance, it was about autistic manchildren's warped concept of fairness and fun, which boil down to "is this game predictable enough for me to beat you often".
Pokemon is never fun unless you used your single player story team against friends
quite untrue
>100+ new pokemon and 20 new moves but you can already identify the overpowered pokemon in 2 days?
Of course. The early days of a new meta are supposed to be hectic and wild. If anything quickly stands out so soon, it's almost certainly broken.
What's your counter strategy to a sweeper that can't get burned and tanks a +2 Sneasler Close Combat
>No need to let the metagame develop? No need to try counter strategies? No need to even have a community vote?
is something is obviously overpowered its a no brainer.
>wahh wahh they unbanned -insert card here- in yugioh but then konami quickbanned it because is was stupidly OP no time to let the metagame develop and develop counter strategies
>2 days of non-stop bax + ninetales spam
>only raising counter strategy was scizor who's shit against everything else
>Only counter to ice/dragon was using your own ninetales aurora veil
>Ban literally happened because survey had massive support for action of Bax
Does this board always speak out of their ass?
Yeah, because most of the Pokemon that came back are shitmons.
>100+ new pokemon and 20 new moves but you can already identify the overpowered pokemon in 2 days? No need to let the metagame develop? No need to try counter strategies? No need to even have a community vote?
That's how smogonites """think""" (they don't).
>Scale Shot
I'm not that good at compv, what's so good about Scale Shot Bax?
with loaded dice it's basically a 100-125 power Dragon-type Flame Charge
It was already running Loaded Dice on sets with Icicle Spear
Loaded Dice guarantees that multi-hit moves hit at least four times, so it gives Baxcalibur a 100-125 BP STAB move that also gives it a speed boost
>Loaded Dice
>Your scale shot is now a 100-125 BP stab move that boosts your speed
>You also have Icicle Spear on bax
>Earthquake covers anything that would resist your stabs
>Snow+aurora veil makes bax really fricking tanky to boot
It increases Speed by one stage. The Defense drop after use is nullified due to Aurora Veil and Snow.
Loaded Dice making it at least a 4-hit guaranteed while boosting speed and Bax being so absurdly tanky under Aurora Veil that a def drop isn't much of a downside. Due to how Snow and Veil boost works it triples its defense.
It’s a meme.
The reason why Bax got the axe is because Ninetales-A was brought back which means Bax could have easy x3 effective Def and x2 effective SpD.
It's not the sole reason why Bax was banned but SD+Scale Shot is very threatening with just a single turn of setup. Bax already occasionally ran Loaded Dice just because Icicle Spear is more reliable STAB than Icicle Crash, you miss out on boots but it's worth it most of the time.
DD + Glaive Rush already existed and doesn’t require loaded dice. It’s also harder to play around than Scale Shot. You could go into a Fairy to cuck the speed boost, or something faster than Bax naturally and KO it when they Sword Dance or something bulky enough to tank an unboosted Scale Shot twice and KO if they go for Scale Shot first. These issues don’t exist with regular DD + Glaive Rush.
But all that shit is marginal compared to being nearly invincible.
So DD + GR is better than SD + SS if I'm running it without A-Ninetales?
It’s better bothways but Snow + Veil is actually busted.
I'm a Karengay and A-Nines isn't my bromon so I'd never use it
scale shot is a multi hit move that can hit up to 5 times, each attack having 25 base power. the item loaded dice will make it always attack at least 4 of those 5 times and baxcalibur has other multi hit attacks to justify the use of the item. allied with that scale shot boosts your speed one stage, meaning now he doesn't "lose" a turn to set up a speed boost and deals damage at the same time, but debuffs your defense one stage, that isn't that much of a problem because you can use the new snow mechanic and aurora veil to compensate
Baxcalibur was already on the way out even before the DLC. The fact that it got significantly better made it a no-brainer.
Fighting game balance and Pokemon balance is different in many ways, on week one of a fighting game characters with cheesy but effective playstyles are strong but as people get better at the game and other characters are optimized better they usually fall off. Pokemon is a turn based game so what ends up happening instead is people start centering teams and sets around countering a specific mon/strategy warping the meta around it.
They had a tiering survey and people wanted Bax gone
no joke either just straight facts the people making the decisions are the biggest betas on the planet.
ofc they are they are playing competitive pokemon haha
Fighting games and even party games like Smash have skills that develop and deep strategies that evolve. Pokemon has none of that. Bax's numbers are big and they got bigger, so now it is gone.
>Nobody could ever develop EV spreads or strats to handle bax better
Is this a joke
It's not a joke. Smogon players are psychologically incapable of understanding the concepts of adaptation, anti-meta, and evolving metagames.
>ban all the good ice types
>SEE!? ICE IS THE WORST TYPE!
A lot of the reason why Ice types are so powerful this Gen is because you can Tera away said typing. Also Hail/Snow was so bad, GF had to give the weather Aurora Veil. If there was a Sun based Aurora Veil, it would probably banned from every format.
> If there was a Sun based Aurora Veil, it would probably banned from every format.
and if my grandma had 4 wheels she would be a car
frick what is your point anon? Aurora Veil is to balance the typing, it has many weakness but you can defend yourself. If fire had 5 common weakness it would have a sun veil
>and if my grandma had 4 wheels she would be a car
She still would need like breaks and a windshield to be recognized as a car :^)
Also, if that was true, why isn't there a Glass Based Arura Vail. Ice had to get a ton of buffs because it was so weak, but they overcompensated and made things broken. Ice used to suck, and now it isn't anymore, again because of thing like Terra which allows Ice types to remove it's typing.
she would need brakes, not breaks you imbecile
You don't want to lose the ice typing under snow.
Kind of interesting how the sandstorm spd boost never really mattered for rock types not named Tyranitar but ice types turn into wrecking balls with snow. Guess it's Aurora Veil that makes the difference.
Rock is an overall worse type.
>FIVE (5) weaknesses
>4 resistances, but only fire and flying being common
>90% of them have the usual shitty "rock type stat spread" with shitty special stats, shitty speed, ok atk, high def but mediocre hp
>almost non-existent special attacks
>inaccurate physical STAB
Ice a much more well-rounded type.
>inb4 b-but le first gym type!!!
With all the powercreep shit it's only fair if Rock got something significant that benefits every Rock type Pokemon out there. Rock being the way it is right now is unacceptable.
>Rock being the way it is right now is unacceptable.
What about Garg? It's the most "rock type done well" mon ever.
Yeah but he's minmaxed as hell.
I think Rock needs
a) Reliable recovery option. Increase Shore Up distribution GF. Or make a new one for Rock types despite the bloody thing being Sandstorm based.
b) Reliable attack option. Here I'll do GF a favour and make up something even more minmaxed than Garg.
>Rock Type Blizzard
>Works off highest Atk stat
>100% accuracy in Sandstorm
>Doubles Sandstorm's chip damage for 3 turns
Look all I want is Recover on Regirock and maybe the existence of a 90 BP 100 Acc rock phys move is this too much to ask
Also some priority would be nice. More Accelrock users GF, it's been two gens already. Then again they took 9 gens to make an Electric priority move.
>>Rock Type Blizzard
off highest Atk stat
>>100% accuracy in Sandstorm
Sounds good. But you know it'll won't have 100% accuracy in a Sandstorm and it will only be physical.
But negativity aside, I'd also give Ancient Power a boost in BP (from 60 to 90) if used by a fossil Pokemon. Also redone stats.
>Then again they took 9 gens to make an Electric priority move.
inb4 exclusive to Raging Bolt because Luxray having anything decent would buckbreak the VGC.
Garg is emabrassingly minmaxed.
>unique broken ability
>unique broken sig move
So we just do this for every other rock type?
And don’t forget, as the other dude mentioned, that it is extremely minmaxed AND this is the gen where you can change your type.
>So we just do this for every other rock type?
Just give most of them salt cure like freezedry was given to most special ice attackers.
Salt Cure was a mistake and should be heavily nerfed in the next gen.
I guarantee a fast, strong rock/ground type built like Chien-Pao or Iron Bundle, assuming it has a decent movepool (so no Stone Miss as the only usable rock STAB) would be banned to ubers in no time.
Theoretically Rock-Ogerpon is that mon.
It can't do anything to steels though, not even Tera.
It gets Low Kick.
And Stomping Tantrum
A theoretical rock/fire or rock/ground with 120 speed and offenses is terrifying as a concept, however we aren't really there due to movepool reasons
Rock Ogerpon and mega Diance were the closest we ever got
Except Rock isn't weak to sneaky pebbles.
SR weakness being a death sentence stopped being a thing with the Defog buff.
Gamefreak need to C&D Smogon and Showdown to death already.
They host on russian servers to sidestep C&Ds.
If they haven't done it in 10+ years what makes you think they are going to do it in a foreseeable future?
I haven't been buying any Pokemon game since DP precisely because simulators exist. I'm not a unique snowflake so no doubt their existence negatively affects the sales.
Simulators do not affect the sales of the games at all. They're not competing with the games. They simulate the battles and nothing else. It's not a full-on fangame, which is what Nintendo/GF/TPC care about.
Guess I am a special snowflake after all.
dont tell me you want ohko moves and evasion shit. everything else yeah. the fact that iron bundle got banned is still hilarious to me because i know that its because of freeze dry. smoggies just dont know how to deal with something that can kill their dumb fricking bulky waters
Bundle got the boot because it was ridiculously fast, moderately strong, and could hit every single Pokemon in the entire game at least neutrally with only 2 moves.
Iron Bundle showed how OP water types would be if they weren't walled by other water types.
You mean like Lanturn and Ludicolo?
this
Ice has been a balanced type since the genesis of the series
Ice types as a whole have suffered more from fanfic metas' arbitrary meddling and restrictions than GameFreaks' designing of them; but it must also be noted how some mons like Sneasel were very much set up for failure due to flawed design *for their type*, not due to the typing period itself.
Why is the OU council so autistic this time around?
Why the frick did they make Volcarona Ubers?
Supposedly Tera's type change thing pushed it over the edge I think?
I believe it honestly, I have 1600 elo and several matches came down to a guessing game as to what tera type my opponent's bax was
Pokemon is always going to be a series of weighted coin flips
Because Finch lost to it, same with why Kyurem got the boot last gen.
Do you fricking newcomer morons know the first thing about the shit you talk about?
Baxcalibur is the most busted piece of hot garbage ever made which 6-0 teams with 100-120 base attacks out of 145 base power, with +1 defense on hail behind veil and Earthquake to hit anything that resist ice and dragon.
Not even box legendaries can't switch on this shit
I'm talking about Volcarona, shitass.
It's over
a question
Is there a Pokemon game for the competitive gamer who hates it?
I want a Pokémon game without any competition and without competitive formats
Legends Arceus
Why Legends Arceus is the pokemon game for those who hate and want to avoid competitive play?
it has no competitive other than like, speedruns, since no multiplayer
Uh... literally any Pokemon game. Just ignore the existence of comp. It has no bearing on your playthrough.
I would prefer a single player pokemon game where there is no form of competition
hit its weaknesses
after all /vp/ told me ice is bad because it has a lot of weaknesses and no resistances
it was definitely the case before the absurd boost to ice types that they gave this generation
Ruby Saphire Pinball
Pokemon Go. It has PvP but it's largely optional and extremely low risk-hugh reward to where it's arguably better to forfeit 80% of your matches.
pokemon go pvp is genuinely rock paper scissors. there was an april fools thing once before i stopped playing where switching had no timer (normally 60 seconds) and it was genuinely fun. it wasnt just "damn he led togekiss into my dragonite. i lose already" i could actually play around shit
I absolutely hate these terrible smogon players, their fanfic meta, and their biased towards things they dont like vs things they like
I wish there was a 6v6 OU on showdown thats literally the same rules as the real game.
It's called anything goes fricking moron. You would know if you played it
Anything Goes doesn't have Species Clause or Item Clause if memory serves
Tbh I don't see what the issue would be with having a "VGSingles" ladder, just singles with the common VGC rules of Item Clause, Species Clause, and banned Mythicals/Box Legends
Showdown has Battle Stadium modes.
BS singles is 3v3. Theres no 6v6 non fanfic meta
Me too.
LET'S GO BABY!!!!!!!!!!!!
Get the frick out of here, Baxcalibur, you minmaxed, broken ability ass!!
For all you homosexual who are going to complain, let's do a quick comparison to Dragonite another Top Tier pseudo dragon in OU:
>More health tha Nite
>More attack than Nite
>slightly less defense than Nite, but due to HP it's actually more physically bulky
>slightly less Special Defence
>More speed than Nite
>Both DDance and SDance
>Broken Outrage clone without the drawbacks of Outrage
>Doesn't even use Outrage clone because it has 100-125 Base Damage Stab for both of it's types, one of which even boosts speed
she's next
My guesses:
Fire goes to Ubers
Water and Rock stay in OU
Grass drops to UU or maybe even RU
Grass is literally the best one.
Grass is a garbage typing both offensively and defensively
Even if you can hold items and get the speed boost from tera it's still shitmon tier
>Grass is a garbage typing both offensively and defensively
moron alert.
Mono grass is the best defensive type of the four.
>sneedler used dire claw
>cinderace used pyro ball
>heatran used magma storm
>moltres used flamethrower
>slowking used sludge bomb
>loses Ground resistance on two forms
>loses Electric resistance on the water form
>loses Water resistance on the rock form
>becomes weak to pebbles in fire form with no Boots
>becomes weak to Fighting in rock form
But most importantly
>grass form has the best base ability and tera boost
>is weak to fire unlike all of the others
>is weak to flying and poison unlike grass/rock
>is weak to ice unlike grass/water and grass/fire
Grass ogre blows
You'd be better off with Meowscarada or even a Tsareena since at least they get to use a tera type that doesn't suck balls
Grass has the worst coverage which kind of sucks though.
That’s obviously not true when one of the forms is Water. Also Rock pairs well with Grass too.
>(You)
This thing sucks ass, being forced to run a fire type without boots and tera just to put a dent in anything isn't worth it.
>fanfic meta
Friendly reminder that the '"'"'counsel"'"' banned Diglett while simultaneously promising that Landorus wouldn't get banned even if it reached 95% usage. These fricks have no idea how to balance a meta
Diglett isn't banned, nor has it ever been banned.
Usage rates aren't a reasonable way to decide bans, moron. Every time one of you spergs suggests Lando should be banned I'm suddenly reminded that Smogon could have an even more moronic approach to bans.
If a pokemon has a such a high usage rate then its warping the meta around itself. That is the definition of an unhealthy meta. moron
Lando warped the meta? How?
It was, at the time, centralizing. When a pokemon is that genetically good you are incentivized to use it yourself, you have to have a reason not to include it. And you know the same is true of others so now you have to include a Landorus answer. But Landorus could do whatever it wanted. Offense, defense or utility. Even suicide lead. So there isn't a single answer except 'bring Ice.' It got to the point that people were putting Hidden Power Ice on pure physical attackers because it could seriously hurt Lando. And using Ice attacks wasn't even a guarantee because U-Turn gave Lando a way to attack and gain momentum without much fear of getting hit by a stray ice attack.
Even if Landorus never tore through teams by himself he was still too good not to use.
When a pokemon exerts that kind of pressure you know it's bad for the meta.
Answers to Landorus are answers to any ground-type.
Are you confident people would run HP ice in Gen V if Lando was banned?
If Garchomp became common, probably.
Well there you fricking go
People are running HP ice for Lando not for "any ground type"
Someone bringing a move to deal with something that's used a lot isn't warping the metagame around it.
Dang
So what moves were people trying to bring to counter Bax that weren't working?
Bax needs whole mons to deal with it, and if you lose those mons you lose the game. Landorus doesn't instantly end games in that same way.
>It doesn't instantly
Is there literally any criteria Smogon players have
Where a mon can make you lose the game if you don't deal with it (but slowly)
And be OP?
That's every single pokemon in the game.
The thing about Lando is that dealing with it simply means using an Ice move once, or sometimes twice.
>uses U-Turn to avoid your ice attacks
Oops. I guess you meant an ice attack from a pokemon with a speed tier above 91?
>BUT WHAT IF MY OPPONENT PREDICTS MY NEXT MOVE???
Then you got read. That's on you.
>outspeeding and using U-Turn is a "prediction"
Only the smartest players know how to click U-Turn.
Now you're just pretending to be moronic.
>Lando apologists are so braindead they actually think outspeeding and switching with U-Turn is a prediction
Smogon players think winning slowly is more skillful than winning fast. So no. That's why the elo system gives more points the more turns played.
>the elo system gives more points the more turns played
Is this true? That's not how elo is supposed to work.
Landorus doesn't win games on its own.
>Choice Banded Earthquakes (you)
Bro, your flying-type? Your levitate mon? Your physical wall?
>bro your Landorus counter?
Huh. It's almost as if... no, certainly not.
If you have nothing on your team that you can switch into on EQ you have more problems than Lando.
He's baiting. Don't reply.
>anyone that doesn't like Lando is baiting
I'm glad GF took away Landos utility this gen. No pokemon should ever be as good as Lando USED to be.
1100 elo strats
>if you lose those mons you lose the game
that is how Pokemon works
It is if you're putting it on a physical attacker
Lando is countered by Ice Beam on any special attacker, and Ice Beam is already a good move that would be common if Lando didn't exist.
I would day that Lando-T is overpowered, but not uncompetitive. They usually go hand in hand, but there are exceptions. Smogen only cares about the latter instead of the former. Yeah it's vastly overrepresented, but you aren't really every going "Well, I just lost my Lando check, I guess I just lose the game now."
Smogon is run by a bunch of pussy ass nerds
>Smogon is run by a bunch of pussy ass nerds
for the people in the back
fire is the best end of story
Ogerpon is next, especially the water one, hits like a truck while being fast and bulky as frick in rain
Fire will go before water.
Fire is the noobtrap, rain with the water one is great and cucks the fire one
For me, it's rock
Two chances to win the speed tie and shit on other ogres lmao
None of the Ogerpon forms will be banned and the best one is Rock anyways.
Besides some fringe dual typings, Grass/Rock only has to worry about Steels, where as Water and Fire have to worry about Dragon and either Fire or Grass.
the water one can brute force even dragons in rain
I mean you have to use 3-4 turns of your Rain turns and use Tera to break past Dragonite, who can also 2shot you with Tera Normal Extreme Speed. The Enemy also could just as easily use something faster, Pivot around to waste Rain turns with common regenerator Pokemon like Amongus, or really any other Rain counterplay. And obviously Water would require you to use a Rain team when Ninetales-A is everywhere. Meanwhile Rock has no such teambuilding restrictions. It just needs its STABs and Low Kick to be really effective.
Garchomp and Wake are hit neutrally by Wellspring's STABs, and Dragapult is hurt by Knock Off. The only ones really stopping it are Kommo-o and Dragonite.
>Water and Fire have to worry about Dragon
They don’t lol. Especially not fire, with 108 power coverage fairy move that breaks past Dragonite’s Multiscale.
>0 Atk Hearthflame Mask Mold Breaker Ogerpon-Hearthflame Play Rough vs. 144 HP / 0 Def Dragonite: 190-224 (52.9 - 62.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
In what world is this “walled by dragons” if uninvested neutral can already 2HKO every single one in the tier.
I forgot this b***h got Mold Breaker.
The more I look at Ogerb***h fire, the more broken it looks
Then Fire one has to worry about Fire types even more. It’s just harder to fit coverage you want on Fire and Water Ogerpon.
>Fire types
>plural
You mean Moltres exclusively, the defensive set of which healthy Ogerpon can still technically beat with just cudgel if Moltres swaps in on an SD.
What Ice type's gonna take Bax's place like Bax did once Chien-Pao was booted out? Offensive Ice types seem to suppress one another.
We should stop for a second and remark upon the fact that Smogon banned 3 different offensive Ice types from Gen 9 OU. 4 if you count Tera Ice Regieleki.
Weavile got Knock Off back so it's definitely usable now and we all know how good ice/dark is.
Finchinator is a troony chaser
Finchinator is a israelite.
R.I.P my king
this homie save my ass when i was about to lose to some smogie
Why doesn't Smogon just ban
>Quiver dance
>Dragon dance
It's really obvious they hate these moves
because they would have to prove every user of those moves are broken
Not every user, but more than 1.
Smogon doensn't bother proving anything is broken anymore, just ban it the council doesn't like it.
if they ban moves that increase atk or sp.atk stall will rape your ass
Swords dance and everything else can stay. It's specifically the combo buffs of attack+speed that seem to trigger their autism
>baxcalibur banned
>but lol we'll just leave ninetails which was its main enabler completely fine
yeah good one
Cope about it and stop sexualizing pokemon
yeah i'll cope about it by continuing to not play OU until these morons actually solve the problem, which is double screens with light clay being set up in one turn
RU wins again
>but lol we'll just leave ninetails which was its main enabler completely fine
Alolan Ninetales is pretty much a one trick pony.
and how is that a bad thing? i don't think you understand how strong aurora veil is. back when magearna was still in the tier they were trying to suspect light clay because of it being used to set up screens. now we have a much faster screens setter that only needs one turn to get its game going. being a one trick pony literally doesn't matter when it's one trick is going to be overwhelmingly strong even after baxcalibur's ban
Seems like some people already want Light Clay back on the chopping block, if not Ninetales itself.
But it's one god-tier trick.
Remember a couple of months ago when a guy topped the ladder with a quick claw meme team?
Dual screens on bulky offense is so cracked that an item isn't even necessary. And that's with Grimmsnarl, who sets screens up in 2 turns.
Bax was the best abuser of it by far. It was already a top 10 OU mon and it even got a buff in addition to getting the 1.5x defense boost and passive healing from snow.
But the problem factor is definitely Aurora Veil. Especially now that it doesn't necessitate chipping all of your non Ice types.
Would hail be ok if it didn't damage fire and water types as well?
>Beats Raincucks
>Gets banned
Really makes your thinker thonker
NONE OF THIS WOULD BE HAPPENING WITHOUT DEXIT, IF EXCADRILL WAS IN THE GAME HE COULD IRON HEAD THE SHIT OUT OF THIS DRAGON BUT THANK YOU GAMESHIT FOR STAYING FOR THE GOTCHA CATCH'EM ALL
TORTERRA DESTROYED STALL
THIS IS NOT A DRILL
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1945223322
No worries. It's getting banned as we speak
That was actually satisfying. Didnt know torterra got shell smash
The best metagames are where stall is unviable. They are few and far between because Smogon loves stall and bans offensive threats that create this scenario.
>one-shots Torn-T after one shell smash
what the frick
How does that shock you at all?
I dunno, Torn-T always seemed bulkier in my head, probably because of regenerator I guess.
No like, frick you, literally how did it do that. Torn has to run -def nature to even have a chance to one-shot.
+2 252+ Atk Torterra Wood Hammer vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Tornadus-Therian: 255-300 (85.2 - 100.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
Eat my shit moron, it's not that weird to be shocked.
I'm about to severely embarrass you, zoomie. Wait for it.
Overgrow
NTA but isn't overgrow activated in the red range? Torterra was in the yellow
1/3 HP, i.e. ~33% and below
kek there was some moron literally just yesterday trying to argue no one ever uses ice as a tera type.
where was that guy when sandy shocks was the meta
I made a post on smogon forums about shell smash Torterra.
I am not a bot. I am a Volunteer Smogon Council. I do not have council powers but my posts are taken seriously and those who get on my bad side tend to get suspect tested or outright banned in under 24 hours. I have numerous rules, which you may read in my post history, but 1 is the most important rule of all
• I am an Council member in training, and I expect to be treated the same way I would be with my uniform and badge.
Watch your back and get used to this face kiddo, you'll be seeing a lot of it.
That was a rubbish stall team.
>Bax banned
I'm literally a gambit ban away from being the best player in gen 9
>t. Stored Power Cresselia user
Ogerwater is better, i'm telling you, rain is actually good now
Scizor
Pelipper
Ogerwater
Zapdos
Some swift swim user
Fire is better in Nat Dex I'd say.
Hell no, rock has sturdy
and? water has water absorb and you don't need sturdy on it, you will be outspeeding shit anyway
Horn leech + sturdy helps keep sturdy activating over and over
I think it’s rock personally
STAB 100 BP 100% accurate move is way to hard to pass up
SMOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOGGIES WATER ABSORB ON OGRE ISN'T WORKING WITH HYDRO STEAM I LOST A GAME BECAUSE OF IT SMOGIES
Tera replaces the base ability with Embody Aspect
A bit off-topic but what's the best ways to use Clefable now?
Stall wish pass. Never seen Clef outside stall past 1600 s
I'm so happy they banned baxcalibur and not the alolan ninetails! Now i can useninetails to provide extra bulk for my STALL team!
>75% of fully evolved gen 9 ice types are ubers
Starting to think that ice as a type doesn't really need any buffs and it's as good as it is, and that's coming from someone who supported an extra resistance or two.
It's a very volatile type that can snowball out of control very easily the moment it can actually stay in more than a couple of turns. Offensively there was never a generation where it was bad and now defensively it's no joke with Aurora Veil+Snow def buff. Triple def is just absurd, who cares about weaknesses when you have higher bulk than Lugia/Giratina/Zygarde-C?
GF made it clear it's a type that doesn't rely on the resistance chart to be successful, making it more unique and interesting to play. They finally succeeded in making it on par with the very best types. /vp/ would do better not to screw around it whenever Snow is in play, it's an entirely different beast.
Pokemon players don't understand the balance of the game: more news at 11
Would be hilarious if Cetitan gets banned too.
It's actually very usable with Belly Drum and Slush Rush, and Tera Grass/Electric can deal with Dondozo.
it's NU
Ninetales can enable it in OU.
Even Frosmoth of all things is actually decent now.
Can Weavile finally go back to its rightful tier now?
Definitely.
She's back boys.
Big if true
Baxcalibur walked so that Furret could run.
Is Coldsteel the Edgehog any fun in the meta? I guess he goes for pure Ice Tera to avoid the Fire and Fighting pain?
BD/Ice Shard (or Icicle Crash)/EQ/Tera Electric or Grass could be decent.
Singles are garbage meta anyway, 6v6 doubles is obviously superior
Actually I always wondered why VGC is 4v4 doubles instead of 6v6
Because bringing 6 Pokemon with no ability to draft means elements of the game come down to matchup roulette and 6v6 puts too much emphasis on slow play/repositioning.
>6v6 puts too much emphasis on slow play/repositioning.
that's false and only true specifically in metagames with underpowered offense and overpowered defense
People in 4v4 already use Amoongus to make games go long. Make it 6v6 and every team has Amoongus and potentially fissure fishers as well
maybe because Amoongus is a doubles support mon with more utility in that format than singles, such as Rage Powder
but no, must be because everyone loves stall and would use it no matter what, and because it's always the most optimal and viable strategy
Amoongus is good in long games, it wants to drag games long. 6v6 makes games longer and will favor Amoongus more, as it will be able to use regenerator more. 6v6 isn’t just doubles with more Pokemon it changes the strategy and removed drafting skill
>6v6 makes games longer
wow who would have thought that more mons in a battle would generally prolong its length
>6v6 isn’t just doubles with more Pokemon it changes the strategy
another truism
I’m not sure why you are getting mad while agreeing with me
That shit was every where in mid to high ladder. It had to be banned.
Now that he's officially strong, I'm looking forward to everyone claiming that, actually, they always loved Baxcalibur.
At least I'll get more fanart.
It was officially strong in OU the moment Chien-Pao was banned.
I actually like the design, but the in-game 3D model is shit, like many other mons.
Its dex art is much better.
Very bland design, it's just a dino with ice here and there
Cant really hate it when there's nothing to hate or love about it
the second DLC needs to give us a special alt form like Ursaluna
Always loved him btw
>smogon's face when Eviolite Arctibax starts popping up instead
doubtful but funny
It doesn't even have base 100 attack.
I caught my Shiny Frigibax (now Baxcalibur) last year, let it be known I always loved it.
Fascinating! Smogon will ban Baxcalibur, but will ignore the existence of Stealth Rocks, something infinitely more broken than Baxcalibur will ever be! It's almost as if Smogon is biased or something! Interesting!
>rocks is more broken than a bulky physical attacker that has a very strong signature move, can reliably boost his own speed, has ways to gain even more bulk and can't even be burned
maybe in prior generations where heavy duty boots didn't exist. baxcalibur is even more minmaxed than dragapult, that is still very strong, but he's allowed to get everything while dragapult can't receive a ghost physical move and other Pokemon are even losing moves that made them good
Ok
Now remove substitute and hazards from RanBats
Ok now remove anything over 400bst and moves over 70 base power
>SmoGOD bans a clearly overpowered busted mon
>suddenly the 4chin subforum that got swept by a football player playing competitive with his favorites think they're entitled to have an opinion about the matter
KEK
You are an unironic moron if you think this set was what pushed it to Ubers, and not Veil enabling every single sweeper in existence.
God Smoggays have no critical thinking skills. How did this mother fricker got banned faster than Magearna and Volcarona?
It has manageable ways to play around it and Boots Glaive/DD was always more consistent and generally better. How in the frick is shit like Kingambit or Manaphy still not banned but this thing is because "MUH KIT THAT REQUIRES A SPECIFIC ITEM AND AN ENTIRE TEAM BASED AROUND VEIL ON A RISK/REWARD HEAVY MOVE". This just proves that the Smoggay forum posters are actually worse than Verlisfy competitively.
>risk/reward heavy move
Under Snow and Veil -1 defense isn't a huge deal, the biggest downside to SD Scale Shot is taking chip to stealth rock because you're not running boots but that can be managed with hazard control.
>kid name Mandibuzz who can Defog Veil almost instantly and Tera poisons so that it can resist Ninetails/Rimobee STABS. Alongside keeping most of its utility pool and can survive a hit or two from LD Bax assuming you opt for a better Tera Type matchup and it hasnt giga boosted yet and you can land an early Toxic.
Gave you an example of a Pokemon built for anti-Veil RIGHT THERE at your disposal that was added but instead Smoggays decided "WELP THERES NO HOPE, LE QUICKBAN BECAUSE.... BECAUSE I SAY SO OK?!" while they twiddle their thumbs and hope Goyfreak fixes the problem with DLC 2. And don't give me that "OUGGGH VERY SPECIFIC POKEMON TO USE" bs because Mandibuzz is an very consistently solid defensive/defogger mon that a lot of people should be using this gen, especially since it's one of the few defoggers that can directly harm Ghold hard alongside what I just mentioned.
Do you Black folk think before banning shit or is hyper offense a threat to the "FINCH BIG STALL" agenda?
Yes I'm sure a mon that is weak to both ice and fairy is a perfect Aurora Veil counter.
maybe try reading the post you're replying to next time
>Forgets the fact I mention Tera, which for opportunity cost is good to use on a mon like Mandibuzz that can completely outright stop Veil Ninetails.
Proves my point.
based bottom ladder esl armchair metaforger
How the frick was that post ESL?
Having to spend your tera on Mandibuzz just to check Veil is definitely not worth it and there are so many ways to play around it from encore or hypnosis on A-Tales or other mons on the team that Mandibuzz can't do shit against. Not to mention that even with just snow up Buzz can't really handle Bax.
Spending Tera to not make Bax effectively have 3+ Def and +2Spdef is pretty worth it actually. Encore is a pretty good way to stop Mandibuzz but Hypnosis is still risking 50 chances while Mandibuzz gets the chance to do what it does, and switch out to something that can shrug off hypnosis or Moonblast/freeze dry.
>Not to mention that even with just snow up Buzz can't really handle Bax.
I can't really argue Mandibuzz 1v1ing Bax but the presence of Defog/Knock Off alone is enough to make them think twice before trying to set up. I dont think you understand that veil is the problem. And cutting that problem outright means that the main threat for your team is at a massive disadvantage since it can't simply get by with the defense drops or the 1 or 2 scale shot misses.
>other mons on the team that Mandibuzz can't do shit against.
That's why you bring mons that can positively help Mandibuzz in certain match-ups. Exactly the same line of logic and that's how you play Pokemon.
you sound like a smogonhomosexual at your core yourself
Can't wait for SD Weavile to setup behind veil+snow and sweep entire teams as smogongays demand that to be banned because it's Chien Pao 2.0, failing to notice the real source of the problem.
SD/Knock Off/Icicle Crash/???
Poison Jab? Tera Fighting/Electric?
TOTAL SMOGON DEATH
Why are people acting like if Veil breaks only Ice types and now Ice Types are super duper good because of it?
You can put Weavile under four veils but it'll still die to a Scizor snot.
There's a reason why Volcarona is not being brough down, because Veil would make it 10 times more broken it already was.
There's a reason why everyone's packing Baxcalibur and Volcarona at home and not Glaceon or Alolan Sandslash.
Veil breaks fricking any set-up sweeper with moderately good bulk. Baxcalibur was already broken, Veil was just the cherry on top of the cake.
And look at the ridiculous min-maxing and broken ass fanfic three in one abilities the good ices we've gotten this gen like Bundle and Pao and now Baxcalibur are.
Until Veil gets a *the Veil only works on Ice Type Pokemon then you cannot say Veil is "fixing Ice types" because it's only fixing the already fricking good ones because GF decided that for once to not make them not just slow bulky pieces of shit. Now that Bax is gone it'll take less than a day for people to find a new broken ass set-up sweeper to put under veil and I guarantee you it won't be an ice type.
>Why are people acting like if Veil breaks only Ice types and now Ice Types are super duper good because of it?
Because their defense is tripled, meaning that suddenly THEY RESIST THEIR PHYSICAL WEAKNESSES under snow+veil. All mons get good under veil, ice types more so.
Now think again why people are using Volcarona at home. Hint: It's because it has ridiculous special bulk so it's one of the very few ice types that can actually take advantage of snow boost. And once more, veil is just the cherry on top of the cake.
Where's your Top 10 teams packing Avalugg? Or Mr Rime or Jynx? Oh wait.
It's called "optimality" smogoBlack person
it doesn't break ice types it breaks baxcalibur specifically. it gets a 100 to 125 damage attack with stab and that boosts speed with no drawbacks
not really because they don't have the stats to break the bulk of most water types
TSMT. Literally that's what I mean. Smogon is completely missing the point with the Bax ban. It'll continue enabling every "borderline overpowered" offensive threat. I almost promise you Kingambit will be the next Veil sweep, and then Tusk, and then Zam, till the council stops eating a bag of dicks and realize that a move that sets up dual screens in one turn that can last 8 turns set up by an actual good Pokemon is the problem and not that one gimmick set that isn't even as good as BootsBax.
If you have to ban something because it's "too good" then it means the whole meta autism is completely misguided.
Things aren't banned because they're "too good" they're banned when they overcentralize the game and make every team look the same
so too good
As if it weren't the case with the things aren't banned.
That's the thing: there is no "have to" in these scenarios.
Smogon manchildren b***h and cry about flavor of the month strategies right after they blow up EVERY SINGLE TIME THIS HAPPENS, and cannot wait for counterplay to emerge instead.
Happened with Sand Veil teams, happened with Baton Pass teams, happened with Quick Claw teams, happened with Aurora Veil teams now. This is how Smogon operates and its singular purpose in life: to make this game palatable to "people" with stunted mental and emotional development and serious maturity issues.
What counterplay is there to quick claw spam?
>What counterplay is there to quick claw spam?
Too many to name. Figure it out.
20% chance by the way; same as a Jirachi Ice Punch freezing.
So there isn't any true counterplay, just hope your opponent doesn't get fortunate.
smogoBlack person logic
don't think, don't use your brain AT ALL, just insist that what you can't see yourself doesn't exist and thus might as well wave the banhammer now
just pathetic scum and a genuine example of some of the worst humanity has to offer
Still haven't brought up any counterplay btw
you ignored and waved off
as an example, which I already knew was going to happen like you homosexuals always do, so I'm not wasting my breath
it suffices to prove my point that your lot are the dumbest, most myopic knuckle dragging morons in the entire history of competitive gaming and have an overinflated sense of your own competence that leads to an insufferable and unwarranted smugness that at the end of the day is a waste of a sensible person's time to seriously engage with
so I'm happy just calling you a stupid autistic Black person having had even just this sliver of evidence presented that perfectly showcases your inevitable autonomic response to anything anyone could say to you
>Trick
>Knock Off
>Priority of any kind
Off
The Quick Claw holder went first and OHKO'd that Pokemon, sorry. 🙁
>The Quick Claw holder [FANFIC]
No, my Gholdengo went tera flying and now your Ursa has choice specs. Enjoy 😀
Monoclaw uses bulky pokemon behind screens, priority isn't a good answer for them.
>Knock Off
>with base SV distribution
>listed the same wrong thing two times
You? Coping
Me? Won
Run quick claw yourself
Trick
Knock off
Priority moves (not genuine counter play, but can get you out in a pinch)
Admittedly not the most expansive list of counter play, but you also have to factor in the opportunity cost of your item doing nothing 80% of the time. No choice band for those close kills. No flame orb for ursaluna. No lefties for passive recovery.
>quick claw is uncounterable
Yeah that must be why G-Slowbro is on every team
Oh
Knock Off.
Knock Off had horrible distribution before this DLC.
>another quickban that could have been done on suspect
Seriously at this point Smogon is a meta ruled by a dictatorship
There was a tiering survey and most people wanted action to be taken against Baxcalibur, that's why the council held a vote on banning it. There's little reason to let Bax run amok for longer.
>Seriously at this point Smogon is a meta ruled by a dictatorship
always has been
Like 90% of the playerbasr was for this ban and theres zero reason to keep that thing shitting up the meta for 2 more weeks,I will call them homosexuals for banning Volcarona but in this case they did the right thing
Pedo moment