What are anon's favourite stat sets?
For quick, action-oriented games I like a modified Fighting Fantasy stat set;
>SKILL
>STAMINA
>SPECIALITY (the player picks a genre specific speciality like magic or tech)
For deeper RPGs I like a tweaked GURPS set.
>WITS (mind)
>STRENGTH (body)
>DEXTERITY (hands)
>AGILITY (feet)
I like my sets as universal as possible. Those sets can easily be used in a Conan style setting one night, and a cyberpunk one the next.
monitoring this thread
I quite like these anon what game are these from?
Just something I saved on /tg/ I think. Not much to add beyond I've been interesing in reading Cortex and its modular approach, and is not only stats but even mods for rules.
reverse image search says it's Arcanum, the video game
You are the hero we need.
I've always been a fan of NWoD's stats for the same reason. Very similar idea with a Power, Finesse, and Resistance stat for Physical, Mental, and Social.
These arrays aren`t bad per se (they are much much better than D&Ds), but usually they are tied to a point buy system where beauty costs as much as dexterity.
That`s why I usually prefer what anon said here
with STR, AGI, MIND and SOUL as general stats costing the same, and every other thing should be either a cheaper substat or a characteristic/perk you can buy that is also cheaper.
Perfectly put.
D&D stats are terrible. CON and STR should be the same stat both for logical reasons and for gameplay reasons, WIS and INT should be the same stat, CHA should be a broader stat that governs most of your magical attunement.
>they should be the same stat because I said so
Brilliant
To play doubles advocate, in WoD beauty is usually as important if not more than dexterity. And I'm sure there are some systems that weigh some stats and make them cost more, but they're definitely in the minority.
>doubles advocate
But I see no doubles my autocorrected friend.
It's a doggy dog world my friend. For all intensive purposes I could care less because all you want is an escape goat.
Comments like these are a diamond dozen, anon.
FRICK that's the one I forgot.
But yeah, I hate it when people as soon shit.
>Favourite
3:16 Carnage is a silly game but the stats for grimdark space nam ptsd fun times of
>FA, Fighting Ability
>NFA, Non-Fighting Ability
>Wounds x2
>Armour x1
>Drugs x1
>Flashbacks
gets the mood across. You get to divide 10 points between FA and NFA, whoever has the highest NFA is the officer though.
I prefer more unusual sets of stats. Like a mix of skills and domains or stats adjusted to better represent balanced sets of skills.
I enjoy unusual stats, for example Shadowrun's are pleasing to my stat autism, but are too hyper-specific to that game. I like them but I'd never use them in a game
>Spirit
because sometimes, the sheer will to have something really does push the body beyond its physical limitations
BODY: psychomotor domain (action-based)
MIND: cognitive domain (knowledge-based)
SOUL: affective domain (emotion-based)
and CHA
>not rolled. All added up and divided by three.
might, toughness, agility, perception, intellect, willpower.
I like it when the stats spell out a word with their initials. So S.P.E.C.I.A.L. it is. Just sounds snappier than SDCIWC or BARSWLIC.
I was gonna mention this one, a good acronym is always satisfying.
I agree, in a pure dungeon/exploration game I won't include any "social" stats like charisma, attractiveness etc, but I do enjoy deeper, longer games where players have to visit towns, so I'll make sure socially high-stat players are rewarded.
Something I like to include in those games is Morale Points which can be spent to improve dice results and can only be replenished through pleasure like drinking ale and having sex so players have the option to use their social stat at the inn to get locals to buy him drinks or seduce a barmaid so he doesn't have to spend money on beer and prostitutes like a character with poor social stats.
Or just make them much broader and stronger. To me the problem with a D&D CHA isn`t just that it might not be used all that often, but that it will never ever come close to being as important as something like DEX.
In the game I`m making instead of charisma you have GIFT, which is magical power, charisma, appearance and luck all together with many functions in the game. If you want to raise just one of its aspects it`s much cheaper.
That's a really good idea, I might call mine "halo" after the halo effect attractive people experience
good name
pic related suffered a devastating halo debuff
>To me the problem with a D&D CHA isn`t just that it might not be used all that often, but that it will never ever come close to being as important as something like DEX.
DEX lets you avoid one attack, CHA lets you avoid the whole battle.
How valuable an attribute is depends a lot on the group and play style. Also, STR and INT might be considered even bigger dump stats.
I think the standard D&D/Pathfinder ones are excellent and intuitive for fantasy. Except for CON. It's a passive stat (unlike every other) that can be relegated to STR, so both STR and DEX have offensive and defensive capabilities. Having it be separate just makes it so you're worse at engaging with things if you want to survive.
Otherwise this spread provides enough variety without having any useless or marginalized stats. And they let you neatly define general aspects of your character, both physical and mental.
>I agree, in a pure dungeon/exploration game I won't include any "social" stats like charisma, attractiveness etc
Why not just give those utility as well? Even standard options like intimidation and distraction come in useful for what you're describing. You can add as many more things as you want, like bolstering allies or commanding animals.
In a pure dungeon game it's literally just fighting and collecting loot, no actual roleplaying, more a boardgame I guess, I'd have maps printed and be using minis/tokens.
Reaction rolls, hirelings and interaction with non-hostile monsters in the dungeon have their place. They are the purest dungeon rather than combat encounter after combat encounter only games.
you kill every monster you see?
then you're playing wrong, and are a murder-hobo. come over to /osrg/
Wisdom as a stat never made any sense to me.
I understand its role, historically, for balance, but in fiction and for anything beyond early editions of D&D it really doesn't make any sense.
I can imagine a character with high Dex but low Str; with high Con but low Str; mayyyybe with high Str but low Con; but high Wis low Int? No.
WIS is a terrible stat, CHA and CON are both bad.
I can imagine a CREATURE with high Str and low Con, but they're terrible stats for representing variance among humans. Everyone who leads a lifestyle that builds muscle is also going to build fitness, you have to train quite hard in specific ways to avoid doing that.
Yep, CON and STR should just be the same stat, people that have one more than the other are abnormal and should be represented with a characteristic
Plenty of lifters who can't run and runners who can't lift
I'd consider con to be endurance stuff, wouldn't it?
I prefer to think of this as Stamina.
I'm a kickboxer, and one of the first things I learned when I started was that you pretty much feel zero pain in a fight. It's the guy who gasses out first who loses.
I do try to factor in Stamina to a fight in a deeper RPG. Not nailed the best system for it yet, they're always unsatisfying from a gaming perspective
>but high Wis low Int? No.
Tarzan. He doesn't understand the legal chicanery you're doing (or why you're doing it, or the language you're doing it in) but he knows you're a lying shitbag because he can smell it on you.
>but high Wis low Int? No.
Why not? It's accurate to compare it to having street smarts while lacking book smarts. It's any character in fiction who relies on their instincts and intuition and not knowledge and reasoning.
>they are much much better than D&Ds
How come? I know "D&D BAD" is the default sentiment here, but do you really think there isn't a single spec of good design in all of its editions?
>I know "D&D BAD" is the default sentiment here,
moron, that's only what a handful of trolls chant. Most of /tg/ thinks D&D is okay. Hell, the majority of /tg/ that plays RPGs plays some flavor of D&D, according to literally every census/poll conducted on this board.
Actually falling for the spammed efforts of a handful of basic b***h trolls who waste their lives complaining about [whatever happens to be popular on a board] is pretty sad. They're basic b***h trolls. All they know how to do is say "POPULAR THING BAD".
Good job saying a bunch of crap without refuting what was said.
The problem with the quoted post was pretending that "'D&D BAD' is the default sentiment here", not pointing out that the troll was a moron for getting mad at D&D stats just because they're from D&D.
So you're new here
What part of "the majority of /tg/ that plays RPGs plays some flavor of D&D, according to literally every census/poll conducted on this board" confuses you? When it comes down to actual facts and things we can measure, /tg/ collectively actually has a fairly high opinion of the game.
Our trolls rely on the idea that if they spam hard enough and often enough, they can overturn the simple fact that D&D is not just the most played system, it's played more than all other systems combined. But, only idiots would look at the efforts of basic b***h trolls and think anything other than "Wow, these guys are pretty desperate for attention."
So you just can't read?
>Good job saying a bunch of crap without refuting what was said.
Are you genuinely moronic?
Incredibly ironic that you ask that when you can't even understand a simple statement
You've had three chances so far to actually make an argument. You've instead chosen to be moronic each time. Really, the only conclusion that can be made is that you are actually moronic.
Don't even bother replying with yet another "You're wrong, despite all the facts we do have support your argument and all I can do is say 'nuh uh'."
Piece of shit.
>anon spouts something dumb that keeps being repeated on this board
>call him out on it
>you come in
>NOO YOU'RE A MORON IF YOU BELIEVE THEM EVEN IF YOU DIDN'T IMPLY YOU DID
>YOU'RE moronic BECAUSE I CAN'T READ
>THEY'RE ONLY A FEW PEOPLE SAYING THAT, SO WHAT IF IT'S STILL BEING SAID A LOT
Are you done being a screeching monkey and completely missing the point yet?
Shut the frick up.
The guy literally said "I know "D&D BAD" is the default sentiment here." Those are the exact words he used.
That's not even simply implying he believes them, it's directly saying he does.
What the frick is even wrong with you. I just told you not to reply to me again with anything moronic, and you produce the most moronic post yet. Seriously, frick off.
>quoting me while STILL not understand what the quote means
lmao seriously just pick up a dictionary and stop embarrassing yourself
Why do you keep replying to him if you know he's a moron?
Fair enough. I'm just really tired of people validating the efforts of our basic b***h trolls.
They want to project this idea that /tg/ hates D&D, when the actual sentiment towards the game is generally positive. It's basically them hoping to perform propaganda, and I really hate to see idiots fall for it so readily just because the silent majority largely chooses to ignore basic b***h trolls.
Yes anon, it's all a huge conspiracy against your perfect game. Obviously it can't have any flaws or haters because it's popular.
>we can't let them win we must fight against them
Where do you think you are?
>All they know how to do is say "POPULAR THING BAD".
That's the whole problem.
is incapable of saying anything more.
How am I incapable of saying anything more when I said a lot more in that post (that you chose to ignore anyway)?
You defaulted to saying D&D is bad and didn't offer anything for why one of the few things that it does right in concept should be dismissed
>That`s why I usually prefer what anon said here
Other than that I'd go with Body, Mind, Soul but with body divided into two stats (STR and AGI), totalling 4 stats. with STR, AGI, MIND and SOUL as general stats costing the same, and every other thing should be either a cheaper substat or a characteristic/perk you can buy that is also cheaper.
Your stats should represent all the capabilities of a character, and also they need to be either more or less equal in power in relation to one other OR they should be chosen/bought in a way that the stronger/more important stats cost more than the others.
D&D accomplishes none of this, it leaves a bunch of character capabilities out (like strength of character, natural magical affinity, etc), has some very narrow weird stats (that maybe mechanically they try to make less narrow and weird but being forcing gameist shit), and all stats "cost" the same even if they are not balanced for what the game is.
>it leaves a bunch of character capabilities out (like strength of character,
Charisma.
>natural magical affinity,
Also Charisma, though in terms of magical affinity based on force of personality. In general, D&D does not believe in this concept of tying "magical" affinity to a single stat because magical affinity comes in many flavors, stemming from force of personality, devotion, intelligence, and so on.
moron.
>These arrays aren`t bad per se (they are much much better than D&Ds)
You were talking about the array, not how an unspecified edition of D&D balances it or defines individual stats.
If you can't figure out how an encompassing array can define a character well that's just a skill issue on your end.
D&Ds stats always bothered me because a bunch of nerds who had never been in a fight their entire lives, talked down a thug or wooed a woman thought that they could assign stats to all three and got it woefully wrong.
>fighting is me hitting your armour then you hitting mine
>all social interation is CHA and STR never comes into it when in reality your physical appearance does a lot of the heavy lifting in social engagements.
>longbows are a DEX ability when in reality without a high STR you aren't even drawing the damn thing
This.
>if I work out, I will get women
Caveman thinking right there. The kind of thing gym rats actually believe.
I will note it does work on cavewomen though. Basically, get a bonus to charisma checks if you have high physical stats and the woman comes from some orc tribe or otherwise has low intelligence/wisdom.
Also, don't forget that appearance is a component of charisma. There's plenty of gym rats who go for show muscles, and those contribute to charisma rather than strength.
And, Strength is only important with bows at extreme distances. It's basically meaningless within 30-100 feet, especially compared to being able to aim properly. Remember that the "longbow" in D&D is not the English Longbow used in war where it was shot en masse, it's just a bow that's longer than the shortbow, which is itself just a small bow.
Have you never played a tabletop game?
You sound like all your real life knowledge comes from some tard who tried to "debunk" stats.
I'm currently working on a game about medieval mech pilots where the PC stats are
Knack
Nimbleness
Intelligence
Glamour
Hardiness
Theurgy
While the mechs have the stats of
Weaponry
Arcane
Leverage
Kinesis
Esoteric
Robustness
Anything that allows me to command animals at will
or robots if the setting doesnt have real animals so usually charisma which is funny cuz the kind of characters I usually create are hermits that prefer live among animals than other humans
Currently working on a sort of a urban setting in current México city (think Netflix's Narcos, Mafia games or Sicario the movie) and the stats are the following
>Voluntad
>Ego
>Resistencia
>Garra
>Agilidad
>Sapiencia
It basically means spells a word that means badass or wienery depending on the context
anything that doesn`t have superfluous or plain dump stats, which you avoid either by properly tiering your stats, or by having all be important and maybe interset in function, or by having different values for different stats
I like how Cyberpunk puts both "Constitution" and "Strength" in the same stat: Body.
I love Cyberpunk's stats overall, it's pretty thematic. Although it wouldn't work in a different genre.
Pic related comes from the VG, but in the ttrpg it's the same + Attractiveness and Empathy.
I've toyed around with running 5e before with Str+Con being rolled into Brawn.
There has been no downsides to it besides the fact that Monks/Barbarians/Fighters all feel better.
I based it on the fact that high strength, low con makes no sense as both are the baseline for general athleticism.
>I love Cyberpunk's stats overall, it's pretty thematic. Although it wouldn't work in a different genre.
Technical Ability just becomes whatever your setting's quirk is. Mad Science, Magic, Qi-bullshit, whatever works.
My stat array of STRENGTH, AGILITY, INSTINCT, INTELLIGENCE, GIFT and WILLPOWER is the best 6 stat division.
Other than that I'd go with Body, Mind, Soul but with body divided into two stats (STR and AGI), totalling 4 stats.
STrength
DeXterity
Intelligence(Q)
HealTh
PERception
WILLpower
Definitely Bubblegum
Might
Speed
Intellect
All you need.
Body, Spirit, Mind.
D&D brain be like
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO we must have a shit stat called wisdom (WTF DOES IT EVEN MEAN LMAAAO) instead of perception/instinct/whatever because this hack decided it when he created the whole game in a day 70 years ago so it must be taken as gospel!!!
>I'm THIS desperate for attention
Our basic b***h trolls, ladies and gentlemen.
So you're one of those morons who just changes the names of D&D stats and thinks he innovated something.
CONSTITUTION WISDOM AND CHARISMA ARE GOOD ATTRIBUTES GUYS STOP TROLLING LMAO
FFS THERE IS NO WAY WE COULD BE PLAYING A moronic GAME FOR moronS FOR THIS MANY YEARS RIGHT?? IT IS PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE!
ah so you are a gurpsgay?? that explains everything
get that steve jackson shrunk lil dick out of your mouth before you post here
ALIGNMENT MAKES PERFECT SENSE AND ONLY THE BIGGEST, MOST DISINGENUOUS TROLL IN ALL OF Ganker COULD SAY OTHERWISE!!!
Oh look another potentially good thread derailed by spergs reeing about D&D.
Hetting back on topic, I prefer to just have a list of Basic Skills that all characters have (Athletics, Combat, Social - same sex, Social - opposite sex, etc) to which players assign points, and a list of Acquired Skills that have to be "bought" (magic, electronics, locks, traps, healing, vehicle operating, etc)
Puts the emphasis on training, practice and experience rather than someone with a high DEX just magically being good at picking locks etc.
For small games: Brains, Muscles, and Guts. Everything else is skills that the players can decide to be good at.
Personally, if I'm going for big lists, I like the storyteller system. Nine core stats split across mental, social, and physical interactions and then countless skills. I find larger stat lists are better for character creation purposes and smaller are good for getting points across quickly. Mid-tier lists tend to just be... Lacking because there's always a stat or two that are ambiguously large in scope.
I also think videogames have it right when they make effects of stats very clear. Not just in an RP sense, but in actual mechanical senses. Larger lists tend to do this. Like high int giving huge mana pools and high willpower affecting regain. The more stats tell you about the mechanics of the world, the better.
Same here, literally AT/DF/HP for smaller combat oriented games, and expansive lists of skills and specialities for deeper character based games.
Completely right about mid-tier lists, they lack the violent simplicity of simple sets and nuanced potential for uniqueness of long skill lists.
don't understand why everyone keeps b***hing about D&D alignment when the current edition of D&D literally doesn't have it and only pretends to for marketing purposes. There's a box on the character sheet for alignment, and monsters all have their alignment written next to their size and creature type, but it does literally nothing mechanically. Cleric powers are now solely based on subclass, Paladins can smite whatever they want, all of the spells that used to only have an effect on creatures of a certain alignment now work on everything except humanoids, mundane animals, and constructs. (amusingly this leads to all of those spells no longer working on modrons specifically because "outsider" is no longer a creature type in 5e and modrons got classed as constructs) It's the dumbest most obvious trick imaginable and it's amazing how despite hating WotC everyone on this board falls for it.
The trolls complaining about alignment are the same trolls who complain about caster supremacy and the like. All they're doing is taking old troll arguments and repeating them, while completely unaware they're two whole editions in the past. They don't care, because they've convinced themselves they sound like they know what they're talking about, and they've never cared about actually being correct or factual to begin with. D&D is far from perfect, but they can't bother using any real complaints because they're trapped in a perpetual trolling loop of trolls just regurgitating what other trolls have said and none of them were ever that bright to begin with.