>Big ass visual novel comes out.
>Gets mainstream popularity.
>Audience starts arguing over the best way to consume the content through things like anime and spinoffs.
Why do people hate reading so much?
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beats me
Reading is very low intensity entertainment
Too mellow for some people I guess
Personally I love reading while relaxing in the sun in a nice chair
>Personally I love reading while relaxing in the sun in a nice chair
This. Best way to work on my tan
Why do trannies flock to this series like moths to light?
Because it's popular
>Trannies like it now so ________
When will this meme end?
>what if [x] was a girl
>what if [y] were a girl
Most fatetrannies wonder if they are girls
There are like 20 characters of 300 in the entire franchise that are based on men but represented by women, most of them were presumed women or immense homosexuals irl, or in Arthur's case were never real to begin with
>or in Arthur's case were never real to begin with
That's what they want you to think
Based Arthur fought off the israelite-Saxons like a trve King
Why are you mentally ill?
Used to be the opposite lol. The trannies arrived after fgo.
All trannies are autists and autists love big complicated series's.
Shirou is the biggest misogynist in anime and doesn't like the idea of his female servant fighting.
Why wouldn't someone with AGP like the way he treats women?
What a stupid post.
Unironically I've never seen a troony interested in F/SN. The gacha? Yeah but never one for the vn. I've seen trannies for umineko and and higurashi though.
>I've seen trannies
I'm sure you have through a mirror
gottem
You're thinking of Umineko, Fate is normie.
Because we have limited time on this planet and spending 100s of hours clicking through some weeb shit is not a good way for anyone to spend it. No novel needs to be longer than 300 pages.
The kind of people I'm talking about are perfectly content to spend hundreds of hours watching anime or playing gacha. The act of reading is the problem, not the content.
I dont like Stay Night much and think it should be a bit shorter, but it was the best example I could think of. Just 15 years ago, video game fans loved big, text heavy games.
If I had a way to erase my memories of FSN so I would be able to experience it for the first time each time, I'd never touch any other work of fiction ever again until the day I die.
>t. spend over a month of real time reading and rereading FSN over and over
I'd be too scared of the possibility that I get filtered by the Fate route to mindwipe myself.
I wish I could have read the VN blind. Being on Ganker so long spoiled me on everything before I even touched it.
Same. I was shocked by how little I didn't already know.
Damn this makes me glad the only thing I knew about fate was that king arthur was a girl. I think I basedfaced when I thought "WAIT IS THAT HERCULES"
Did you manage to figure out the rest by yourself before their true identities were revealed? Or at least one or two?
I was able to guess Medea, Hercules and Medusa was pretty easy. I didn't know Cu, Gil was "Oh I see" and then Archer I had an inkling of who he might be, but got to genuinely enjoy figuring it out organically.
How did you figure out Medea and Medusa? Rider doesn't really act medusa-esque before you get to the big showdown and Medea doesn't really leave that many clues for you to work with, I don't think her spells are in greek, either.
Figure out may be the wrong wording, guessed correctly is probably more accurate.
I guessed Medusa as soon as I saw her eyes covered and Medea was the first person that came up in my mind when I thought of a possible Greek mage. I basically thought 80% of the servants would be greek. However I also thought Gil was Odyssesus
Odysseus isn't that bad of a guess, though Gil is clearly far too extravagant and arrogant for the ideal everyman that Odysseus is supposed to be.
Your guess about Medea makes sense, though it could have been Circe just as easily. I don't think you get a clue about her greek origin very early on, though.
I honestly thought the blindfold was a BDSM thing when I first read the VN lol.
>though Gil is clearly far too extravagant and arrogant for the ideal everyman that Odysseus is supposed to be.
The ending of the Epic of Gilgamesh is Gil learning humility and to cope with mortality. Guessing a Servant's identity based on their characteristic is like guessing anon's nationality based on his shitposts.
Yeah, Gilgamesh, an icon of humility lol.
He is not, but the ending of the Epic is Gilgamesh learning to not be an arrogant butthole, so the depiction of Gil in FSN makes little sense if we're to assume this is Gil after the end of the epic.
Archer Gil from Fate is during the epic and Caster is after he loses to the snake isn't it?
I thought Saber was the only one "technically" still alive during Fuyuki HGW while every others are already dead?
oh she is, I meant the Caster version of Gil that's used in F/GO and stuff is version of Gil after the Epic where he learns humility so the one in F/SN is before.
Wait sorry, I understand your post now. I forgot that the Throne of Heroes can store multiple versions of the same character.
The lord of the rings is 1,191 pages, and yes it is all one book the publisher just insisted it be broken up
Kids look up to this guy? Jesus.
Women.
fatherless incels.
Kids are moronic? Yes.
Zoomers which are the most moronic generation that has ever existed.
I started intermittent fasting and never got brain fog again.
Literally stop snacking and let your body digest and repair. Stop distracting it with food.
Bruh I literally can't stop, I need to hit my macros and I already struggle gaining weight.
I'm glad I'm not the only person who thought that when playing Odin Sphere.
>Playtime has 3 zeroes for the hours. Excitement instantly through the roof.
I wonder how many people play the gacha but have never read the VN.
I never read it because I never have the time too; but I know better and avoid actively discussing it and getting things wrong.
>Why do people hate reading so much?
Requires concentration, healthy attention span and interest in an intellectual activity. In short - it's beyond the ability for most people. On Ganker especially.
>On Ganker especially.
But this site is nothing except reading posts.
>concentration, healthy attention span and interest in an intellectual activity.
None of this is required for reading fateslop.
Dear god it's embarassing how highly Fategays think of their own VN. It's not that good.
It's a lot better than you seem to think.
No, it isn't. It's a dry novel to read and Shirou is shit as an MC.
>No, it isn't. It's a dry novel to read and Shirou is shit as an MC.
wut
there, i improved it 10x
Now THIS is dry. How are you supposed to convey a sense of fear and desperation with that?
with an image, you know, because it's a visual novel.
How can an image supposed to convey sense of fear, moron? Descriptions matters in visual NOVELS
Says the anon with the girl from the japanese version of the big bang theory.
Because by the time you finish reading all three routes you could've read a frickton of actually well written books instead of this edgy, chunnii shit.
t. read all three routes and actual fricking books for adults
Fate/Zero is much better than the v/n and even then it's not great.
Based Zero enjoyer
It really is night and day compared to the VN. Urobochi is based.
I like FSN better than Dostoevsky if judging by the emotional and intellectual output it gave me. As far as I'm concerned - it's the best work of fiction ever written.
Happy for you anon, but it objectively isn't well written. You're allowed to enjoy things even if they're shit, but we need to call things what they are.
>objectively isn't well written.
>objectively
Nice meme, fart huffing pseud.
I'm not a pseud nor am I an intellectual but you need to eat rocks for breakfast if you think Fate is well written. Anyone can write in that style, it's highschool essay tier.
Are you rambling about the prose, you moron?
Reformulate the question if you want a proper conversation, otherwise remain ignored.
Learn english.
Make me, moron.
>Prose isn't writing!
>Anyone can write in that style
Can you, Black person?
He was angry when he posted.
He knew that he needed to control his rage, a red burning sensation stabbed him like a knife, twisting inside his sexless body.
-------No
I can't keep shitposting. My adversary is too powerful for me to waste my time replying.
But my anger kept burning, seething.
Anyway I had to cook breakfast.
Some mackerel and rice, a japanese style breakfast. I wasn't very good at european style food so I hoped my fellow anons would be able to enjoy it.
All you got right was the spacing and punctuation. 4/10.
Eh, the kino punctuation doesn't tend to come out until a dramatic moment.
why don't you do it and become a millionaire like Nasu then?
It's objectively better than any of the boring aged turds that Ganker fellates with every breath.
Man, I made this thread and even I think that's a moronic opinion. Nasu fricking wishes he could get things across as well.
At max you could have read like five good novels in that time. Probably less because you would actually be engaged with it and spend time thinking about what you read. You could also waste way more of your time reading Three Kingdoms, any given Dickens novel or something by David Foster Wallace.
Novellas are cheating.
I don't even read great books, I read a lot of genre "shit" and even most of it isn't as poorly written and filler filled as Fate was. Why do we need to constantly read about how that idiot gets morning boners and what he's cooking for breakfast? Half of Fate could be cut out and still maintain the intent, plot and atmosphere it was going for. The tonal backlash is constant. And aside from Heaven's Feel, all the sex scenes are moronic and embarrassing.
Thread's not about Stay Night. It's about audience aversion to reading VNs/text heavy games. It's probably Nasu's worst work unless you count ridiculously short stuff.
>Half of Fate could be cut out
Why? For what purpose? It's perfect the way it is. Why would anyone in their right mind want LESS of what they like?
We were talking about how the pacing was poor and interjected with tonal backlash. I never claimed no one shouldn't enjoy this shit, I did enjoy it. I'm just saying it was very easier to make it better.
>poor pacing
Seems like a (you) problem. Treat your poor attention span and ADHD.
I did. Wasn't what I was expecting, but still good nonetheless.
Yes. I do. They serve as a break from more heavy emotional scenes so you won't get overwhelmed and can recharge for the next course of roller-coaster ride.
>why you'd want to cut out the pages upon pages
Never had that urge once in my life. If I like something - I want more of it. So it's always baffling to me when people express they want to cut something out. Literally mind boggling shit for me.
Sorry for my previous rude post then. I'm genuinely envy that I can't easily enjoy stuff like you do.
Maybe one day they'll make meds for contrarianism.
>I'm genuinely envy that I can't easily enjoy stuff like you do.
Unironically have FSN to thank for that. It taught me that you can find meaning and enjoyment in all things, no matter how silly or childish they may seem at the first glance if only you approach them with an open mind and heart. Since then i was able to find enjoyment in things I previously would find difficult. FSN cured my soul from bitterness, elitism and pretentiousness.
>Has no standards whatsoever.
I see... so this is the power of a [True Consumer]...
>Has no standards whatsoever.
But I do. FSN is my golden standard for fiction. I can write paragraphs upon paragraphs as to why it's so great. Starting from respecting the mythology and philosophy used in it (Greek, Medieval, Arthurian, Western, Eastern Philosophy etc), The Hero's Journey and how absolutely magnificent it follows it. About it's art, music, themes. How it handles complex themes like heroism, idealism, utilitarianism, self-worth, nature of evil and many many others with the utmost finesse. FSN is a monumental treatise on human condition, mythology and philosophy carefully disguising itself as a chuuni visual novel. And by doing this - filtering untold amount of intellectually lazy readers. God, I love FSN so much.
I mean tbh the art isn't great. And I don't know if I'd say it exactly respected the myths it reinterpreted.
>Starting from respecting the mythology and philosophy used in it
Alright, I was willing to believe that you genuinely love Fate that much but this right here exposed your trick. You can't possibly say it with a straight face that Fate respects mythology when it chops off the dick of King Arthur and have him fricked by a Japanese teenage boy.
>muh sex
>muh reductionism
I have no interest in humoring your bad faith "arguments". Suffice to say that I personally saw actual Arthurian legend buffs all in unison proclaiming that Saber is the most faithful and respectable rendition of King Arthur since Excalibur at the very least. And I agree with them wholeheartedly.
>muh genderbend
Irrelevant. Turning Arthur into a girl might possibly be the most genius move ever made in regards to referencing and incorporating mythology into your fiction. It's about the character first, everything else is secondary. And Nasu clearly knows his mythos and respects them.
>fricked
Irrelevant. Realta Nua scraps all hentai. I don't read it for it anyway so it's a plus for me. Hentai throws you out of the story, is unnecessary and honestly does more damage than good to the overall quality.
>Irrelevant. Realta Nua scraps all hentai.
have a nice day.
I gotta be real, "Merlin gave Artur a penis to frick her wife" and "Medusa was bullied and sexually harassed by her goth e-girl sisters" is pretty disrespectful.
>more reductionism
At least try a little next time. And stop feeling disrespected on behalf of mythological characters. Makes you look like some sort of deranged leftist.
>No actual argument.
Thought not.
The boys are generally treated better.
>please effortpost my bad faith reductionism
Provide a coherent argument yourself and maybe I will.
>"You're lying because I say you are. Nothing you can say will change that and I don't have to explain myself."
No wonder you don't see flaws in the VN. You've insulated yourself from actual discussion.
Lancer is pretty true to his myth, though, blue spandex aside.
The serious part of Medusa's backstory was pretty good even if it's 100% OC
Can't blame Nasu since legends only mention her being killed by the shield trick and that she lived with her sisters(who are beyond footnotes in the story, I never managed to find any info about them in the legends)
The "funny part" of them being bullies was really lame and reeked of needing to jerk off to Rider being sexy and getting big and being molested. Like I get it, big girls are hot, but "Stheno and Eurayle are a singular entity and e-girlcon bait" was really lame. Them being eternally young and men trying to rape them and them being horny for Medusa is on brand for Greek myth, though.
They actually go to pretty great lengths to explain the Arthur being female thing and it's considered very unusual/a plot twist. It's a thing that has kind of retroactively been made worse by later Fate works pandering to morons and genderbending tons more characters in GO because it's popular. Remember if you read the VN blind you do not know who Saber (or anyone else) is until the story reveals it and Saber is the only genderbent character in the canon at that point. It's the later garbage that is to blame for that shit.
>FSN is my golden standard for fiction. I can write paragraphs upon paragraphs as to why it's so great.
but but FNV
>Starting from respecting the mythology and philosophy used in it
homie what are you smoking?
nicely said anon,I fully agree with you but one thing,there ~~*should*~~ have been much more backstory about what arthur's life was life besides a few vague flashback's that shirou had
I guess you can count GoA but that's secondhand martial
I actually agree with this. The older I get and the more I think about FSN, the more I like it. I actually think that people that don't rate FSN lack literacy understanding. Especially people who say Shirou is bland or that the Fate route sucks. I can just immediately disregard every opinion you will ever have if you say this, which is nice.
That is not to say FSN is flawless, the pacing is terrible, the cooking scenes annoying, the humor is bad, there's a lot of repetition. I won't fault anyone for not being the biggest fan of FSN or preferring Tsukihime Remake over it, but outright saying FSN is bad is ridiculous
Fate and HF have some rocky pacing
>Why would anyone in their right mind want LESS of what they like?
You must have never played Hollow Ataraxia.
Is this about the main theme or the game or are you implying that the SoL in HA was bad?
Because I loved it.
A little bit of both.
There's good hang out scenes, but like half of the Saber, Rin and Sakura scenes are bad or redundant. Caster has a few too many, but this is done on purpose to catch you off guard when one of her scenes turns into an incredibly important thesis statement for the game itself. Some stuff exists just to encourage doujins or advertise upcoming products.
The game would be a lot better if it cut a good amount of the chaff.
>half of the Saber, Rin and Sakura scenes are bad or redundant
I agree but it's not as big of a deal as FSN's pacing breaking bad scenes.
>Caster has a few too many
Did she? I thought she had the right amount, plus she needed more screentime and her long scene about tailing her husband was great.
I would rather cut a chunk of the scenes the literally who background characters get like Taiga's friend or that one monk guy.
How about the track team trio that never do anything substantial? Or Mitsuzuri's brother?
Yeah they all sucked.
Going from the kino ending of the story to Detective Himuro was soul-crushing.
>Hates Himuro and her posse
Did you guys just not have friends growing up?
>defending that fricking three parter monstrosity of a scene
I'd rather just have a wank in like one tenth of the time and have ten times the fun if I'm already in the eclipse menu.
It's three parts for a reason, you know. You're not supposed to read it all at once. It's just an excuse for a bunch of scenes that don't have to contrive excuses for Shirou to be around.
Is it really about anything but dumb school gossip?
I mean that's the throughline, but it's really just an excuse to examine like ~10 characters without Shirou around. I read one act at a time, went back to the main game, and then came back for the next a day or two later and held Ctrl until I got caught back up.
Maybe I'll actually read it the next time I read HA. Still, I'll probably get bored halfway through and end up reading Sakura's solo eclipse scene again. That one is really underrated.
Nah, frick that. The minor characters getting one-off scenes helped give context for the cast and FSN itself. I felt some of them actually needed more content to balance things (and apparently someone agreed, seeing how fate/school life exists). The biggest problem with the first chunk of HA is how lopsided the cast utilization is.
>Pic
Kirei is more of a Roa-adjacent, Kuzuki should be there.
>>pic
The reason why Kirei and NRVNQSR are both there is because both are voiced by the same guy
Do you honest to goodness actually like the goddamn shopping and cooking scenes?
Yes. SoL is fun.
Yes, I enjoy seeing characters I like having charming slice of life moments together.
HA was a great time in part because of all the slice of life you get, seeing how characters live their life outside of the bounds of the Grail war.
Same reason why you'd want to cut out the pages upon pages of random literal whos dying out of the Illiad.
Both serve the same purpose: to pad page count with pandering to the target audience.
It's really funny how quickly that story falls apart once you hit the post-Virgil content.
because they never played the VN and watched "FSN explained in 5 minutes or less" on youtube by a 20 year old anituber for their talking points, like 99% of people on Ganker who pretend they played the game
>moronic zerogay secondaries
Not even once.
I find it silly how anyone can say Zero is better than FSN. It's not a bad anime by any means. But for anyone who read the VN dutifully and understood it's themes and characters Zero just didn't do a good job as a prequel.
The cast is mostly adult yes but they all act like literal children, even more so than actual teenagers in the VN. Cast being adults does nothing if they all are one dimensional and shallow characters that act like toddlers on strings of a mediocre writer. The only good characters that has any depth are FSN ones and even they suffer of Urobuchi's mischaracterization.
It's an archetypal Urobuchi's work - if you read one you read them all. Suffering that serves no purpose, edgyness for the sake of it. Character arcs that lead to nowhere. One dimensional characters. Pointless scenes.
It playing HGW straight is just a testament of Urobuchi's poor understanding. It's pretty and have satisfying fights and is mostly entertaining like any Ufotable's adaptations. Shallow and obfuscating that what made VN great. It's hollow and soulless in nature. It leads to nowhere, preserving the status quo that Urobuchi's likes so much. No questions were answered, they weren't even asked, just some misleading criticism of something you don't fully understand.
It has some good moments in it. Like Gil and Kirei, Kerry's past, Broskander. But the downsides are unforgivable - Butcher butchered Saber and misunderstood what makes the VN so great. He missed the tone completely, because people who liked Zero liked it for completely different reasons than one might like the VN. And it's a grave mistake for a prequel. It's also lead to what we have now - tons of secondaries presenting their opinions like it matters. Saying that a 10 hours anime has better themes and more fleshed out characters and is deeper than a 100 hours VN. It's simply not true and is laughable.
tl;dr
>I can't read
No need to say it twice. We've already established that you're a illiterate zerogay.
I'm not reading all of that. But I'm happy for you, or sorry for whatever happened.
>I'm not reading all of that
>le subtext
Subtext doesnt matter if the text is boring. Zero is better than FSN because its much tighter and better paced and doesn't have 10 hours of cooking scenes or dumb VN tropes like fanservice alternate endings, not because it's more "le mature" or whatever strawman you came up with
>zero
>tight
zero is disjointed as frick and clearly has no idea on what actually wants to be. It half-asses everything it set out to do along with ruining preestablished shit like the actual story and characterization of the characters from FSN.
>muh hecking tropes
you have to go back
>Zero is better than FSN because its much tighter and better paced
>tighter
>better paced
Seems like a (you) problem to me. I like cooking scenes and many different endings. You don't? Well, your loss.
>prequel spinoff made by another dude is better than the source material
Yeah, so much better that even Nasu had to go out of his way to declare Zero non-canon to FSN because Urobuchi's frick ups.
reddit
You say "le mature" is a strawman, but complaining about the VN's SoL scenes and fanservice being a waste of time, gives the impression that you're probably one of those gays who's embarrassed to say he likes anime, so he just tries to pretend he only likes serious anime for serious people to be cool.
I knew quite a few of those types back in highschool/college, and one of them tried to make me watch Fate/Zero before anything else.
I ignored his advice and torrented the VN and feel much better for it.
>I knew quite a few of those types back in highschool/college, and one of them tried to make me watch Fate/Zero before anything else.
>I ignored his advice and torrented the VN and feel much better for it.
Based beyond belief. I kneel.
Heavens Feel Trilogy was a better story in 3 movies than Fate/Zero with 2 cour. There is a way to do the FSN routes in animation well.
HF trilogy was ruined for me because I'm a VN primary and I can't look past all the shit they fricked up, it's distracting as hell. They also ruined my favorite segment at the end with Shirou losing his mind, the movie practically skipped all of that and just made him burst into swords mid-Kotomine fight. Frickin pathetic.
I still enjoyed it even though they screwed up the forest scene by not having Shirou attempt to block a hit with a reinforced black key or make a single goddamn remark about how Kotomine is superhuman during the run without magic (setting up believability for him incapacitating Hassan later). They didn't butcher anything essential to story cohesion, but they did leave out technically unnecessary stuff that fans of the VN were looking forward to. I don't get why we got Mind of Steel hints but they couldn't toss us a Sparks Liner High 4 minute nightmare sequence when Sakura got the whole dream sequence of eating people in Lost Butterfly that never existed in the VN.
>Anime only secondaries find the post too long and refuse to read it
It would be a good joke if it was actually a joke lmao, couldn't make this shit up
Being serious, I just feel bad for the people who watched the adaptations. FSN when I read it blind (as each route was originally translated) it was mindblowing and I was absolutely hooked every time a new route came out. It along with reading umineko as the episodes were released were hands down great experiences and as others have said I wish I could wipe my memory and experience it again.
The people who, due to their own short attention spans, instead opted to watch anime adaptations that gloss over everything that isn't a fight scene and so completely miss what actually makes FSN good I just feel sorry for. They genuinely, massively missed out on a great experience and now they can never fix it because they've been spoiled.
All because they're fricking stupid secondaries who hate reading.
There's a reason I appreciate how unadaptable Fate/hollow ataraxia is and it's entirely this. It's still probably my favorite Fate story because the time loop and the events get to experience are something that really makes the beats of the main plot hit even harder. Everything works in service to a smaller scale story, the fun moments,the romantic moments, the action, it makes the climax hit harder because you recognize everything that led up to it in loop after loop, and what the implications are for the main characters when they reach the end.
It's something an adaptation could never replicate, it's a restriction brought about by the medium itself and it's why it's important to never forget the source material.
You could absolutely replicate Hollow Ataraxia as an anime.
The problem is that it would be really fricking hard and nobody with the chops wants to adapt a 20 year old VN fandisc.
You and I both know they'd only do the major plot beats and then drag out the climax for extra ~sakuga~.
I mean yeah. Nobody with the talent to do it right would want to adapt it.
But you could totally do it, and it would be fantastic. Just requires really good directing and some scene consolidation. Even just properly plotting out where to put things like the steps of Caster's subplot, Cu's stuff, Medusa's MASSIVE amount of content, Issei's scenes, when and where you introduce characters like Neko-san, is a fricking headache.
A good adaptation would probably make its cuts to Saber, Rin and Sakura scenes, but no studio would ever greenlight that. It's doomed to fail because of market realities.
How the hell would you even adapt Last Piece?
>hour long scene
>all in a formless void with Bazett and a shapeless blob
>nonstop talking, 0 action
>every single word is essential, making it shorter would cut essential developments
As always the zerogays expose themselves, can't make this shit up
>Suffering that serves no purpose, edgyness for the sake of it.
most of which nasu came up with and established and engages in in the VN, but you got rosetinted glasses for your mid vn
>One dimensional characters. Pointless scenes.
vn has all of those things and even more pointless scenes. F/Z has virtually nothing pointless, youre just stupid
>of something you don't fully understand.
you dont understand either f/z nor VN, nor Nasu or the words you use here. Your post is AI generated reddit
>Butcher butchered Saber and misunderstood what makes the VN so great
never happened. What makes VN great? Oh yeah waifus and muh shero selfinsert.
You lack taste and are utterly with no imagination thinking that a work in different medium, a prequel , has to follow same formula.
What do you want, another cringy highschool drama, another potato protagonist that doesnt know anything about the war and gets with chicks. Yeah youre an idiot, you dont have any real arguments.
>this is the post that that zerogays took half a day to muster up
>mid
>youre just stupid
>Your post is AI generated reddit
>Oh yeah waifus and muh shero selfinsert.
>You lack taste and are utterly with no imagination
>Yeah youre an idiot, you dont have any real arguments.
Holy mother of seething. Thanks anon, I laughed so hard reading this that my dog started barking thinking I've gone insane. Phew.
>barking thinking I've gone insane. Phew.
i can also quote just the last part of every line.
Not them, but yeah, you sound like you're seething.
i am seething, because the post is idiotic.
zero is a foolproof midwit litmus test
Aside from what people mentioned the VN is completely unrecognizable and therefore unappealing to someone who started with the adaptations or FGO. The VN is a slow burn action-horror character study while the anime adaptations are full on shonen with no horror or characterization, and FGO is just an excuse to sell coomer jpegs to dumb people. Expecting people to read the VN is like expecting Persona 5 fans to play SMT1.
VNs are verbose and pretentious, and FSN in particular has the bonus of being awfully-written porn on top of that.
It's a great idea and that's why it became a franchise, but the work itself is crap and only gained mainstream popularity when it was adapted into less obtuse formats.
The most pretentious video games: Phoenix Wright and Katawa Shojou.
Katawa Shoujo is VERY pretentious, yes.
Is it? Because to me it read like a bunch of dumb kids just copying VNs they liked poorly.
Pretentiousness is affecting depth and refinement you do not have. I'd say a bunch of morons writing their fetishes down and pretending it's art is pretentious.
>Katawa Shoujo is VERY pretentious, yes.
Nothing pretentious about it, moron. Learn to use words correctly you moron.
It's actual, textbook pretentious. How about you hit up a dictionary, homosexual?
>It's actual, textbook pretentious
Write it out then. Point by point in regards to KS. I'll wait.
I'm sorry, I was shitposting.
the fact that you need to have sex to restore mana is so fricking stupid. just a way to shoehorn sex scenes into the story without a second thought about the implications. is kirei barebacking lancer every night?
realta nua
It wasn't exclusively sex, someone said that Servants can feed mana off of humans & mages they kill, which is why "go to the church if your servant dies" is something that is repeated numerous times.
they have sex because Shirou is a fricking third rate loser who can't find ways to restore magic in other ways besides body fluids
1. You don't "restore mana" with sex. It's mana transference from one person to another.
2. You don't "need" to do this, either. It's actually a relatively obscure and seldom done ritual because there are far more efficient ways to transfer mana between people. Those other methods though require that a person is either A) a trained magus able to control the flow of mana through their body, or B) willing to sacrifice living humans. Shirou is neither of these, so he has to resort to sexual mana transfer. Other masters in the grail war do not have Shirou's limitations or moral compunctions. A competent magus supplies their servant with mana without the need for sexual rituals, and can provide additional power to them by letting them consume human souls, which is how Caster sustains herself since her contract was with a non-magus.
Kirei is both capable of supplying mana normally and has zero compunctions about using humans to sustain his servants (as a matter of fact he does both of these).
Because Im not 13 anymore, I tried to read the VN and it was boring as frick, anime is way more digestible. If they want more readers they should step up their game
VISUAL NOVELS ARE NOT GAMES
VISUAL NOVELS ARE NOT GAMES
VISUAL NOVELS ARE NOT GAMES
The definitive list of Fate media to consume, anything not listed is actual garbage not worth anybody's time:
>Fate Stay/Night (not that realta nua shit)
>Fate HA
>Carnival Phantasm (the first one, not the FGO infested wank fest)
Optional:
>Prisma Illya
why is there still no official FSN translation? isnt the current fan translation dogshit?
The fan translation is about the same quality as any given PS2 game. Could be a lot better, but very little is lost in translation.
>thinks an official TRANSlation would be better than the flawed yet faithful takajun translation
moron
It's rough but accurate.
When you ask for an official translation, what you're asking for is to have some trannoid with a X (formerly twitter) account inserting his political beliefs in the work.
I wish every game had fan translations and no official translations.
>Audience starts arguing over the best way to consume the content through things like anime and spinoffs.
what arguing? there's only the VN and the rest is funny fanfic for secondaries. funny and entertaining but still fanfic.
LB6 is the best thing Nasu has ever written even though it has a shit mute self-insert as protagonist.
>FGO
It's always sad how much better FGO could be if the MC was more like Shiki, Shirou or even fricking Iori from Samurai Remnant. Nasu's writing is still good but it's much better without a blank fricking slate protagonist
Lb6 was markedly improved by making the self insert have some slight modicum of personality and input.
>FGO
It was a thread like any other.
A thread made to bait my ire.
This thread is an eyesore.
This post. This post. This post. This post. This post. This post. This post. This post. This post. This post. This post. This post. This post. This post. This post. This post. This post. This post. This post. This post. This post. This post. This post. This post. This post. This post. This post. This post. This post. This post. This post. This post. This post. This post. This post. This post. This post. This post. This post. This post. This post. This post. This post. This post. This post. This post. This post. This post. This post.
I may be a complete fricking moron, but having Medusa call something an eyesore right before she starts turning into Gorgon was a kino parallel.
>ITT
———bait on
Should I play this or steins gate (or Clannad)??
I've been playing vns for the past month after playing Totono.
Read Tsukihine.
How is the fan translation? I was waiting for the English Switch port coming out next year.
It's really good. Probably better than the official one, if Mahoyo is any indication.
If you like sci-fi and time travel, go ahead and read Steins;Gate. Okarin is very chuuni, so you may find him entertaining
If you're into urban fiction, interested in mythological heroes battle royale or interested in getting into Fate/Type-Moon, read Fate/Stay Night (https://nyaa.si/view/1691072)
if Fate is too long for you or you like vampires, read Tsukihime (https://sukebei.nyaa.si/view/3874450)
>How is the fan translation?
Pretty good
>I was waiting for the English Switch port coming out next year.
You're thinking of the Tsukihime Remake. It's recommended to read OG first since the remake is unfinished, it only has 2 routes so far
Steins;Gate is way better than Fate/Stay Night, read it.
>Fate/Stay Night
Has a Ganker banner.
>Dostoevsky
Doesn't have shit. Also, he's dead.
Objectively speaking, F/SN is better.
Vee, are you team
>dead people can't be alive!
or
>people die when they are killed
?
I'm on
>dead people can't be alive!
because Hollow Ataraxia is a better story than Fate, UBW and HF.
Dead people can't be alive is a tsukihime line.
But it's also the theme of HA. The dead can't influence the living. Only the living can bring back the dead.
Man, piss off. I hold Tsukihime dear in my heart and had a good time with Mahoyo, but Stay Night has some awful pacing at times.
>pacing
who cares about that, it's iconic and memorable as frick
>Big ass visual novel comes out.
>Gets mainstream popularity.
>Franchise soon shifts its focus completely from making cool characters and battles to pure cringe weebshit fanservice.
try to get animeonly morons to read manga
it is IMPOSSIBLE
It's a few hours with cool animation vs hundreds
>hundreds
how slowly do you frickers read?
But I am reading Stay Night. it's just that after the saber and rin sex scene I lose interest because of post nut clarity.
i think that 95% of the human population literally, LITERALLY, cannot read. I am not being hyperbolic either.
No, they can read.
They just can't interpret or infer.
i think if you offered 95% of the population $1,000 usd to finish a book by the end of the month, they would fail.
I think they can but it expends mental effort. It's why I think some people really dislike foreign dubs and won't read subtitles. While people like you and me will just look at the words and instantly understand them with no mental effort, I suspect these people it's not as automatic and so they dislike expending the energy on it.
It's honestly the only way I can understand people like
who seem to just have an issue with the medium of VNs in general when surely what matters is the content and not how it is presented. Who cares if it's an animation or a VN? What surely matters if whether it's good? Well, not to people like these it seems.
Deen fate stay night is not bad and people need to stop saying it's bad
Not everyone wants to read visual novels
>Deen fate stay night is not bad
True.
>Not everyone wants to read visual novels
Then don't present your worthless opinion like it matters if you can't be bothered to read the source material.
I agreed
>Not everyone wants to read visual novels
Then you don't get to partake in Fate.
Partake...what, is it like the eucharist or something?
DEEN/stay night has great music that helps it. I also think it captures the spirit of the VN more than rhinotable.
DEEN has much better music but Ufotable is superior in every other way. DEEN simply cannot capture the writing in a visual format and a lot of people to this day still think Shirou is a generic moron self insert because of them. All nuance and all the interesting parts of f/sn are gone from DEEN. Meanwhile the UBW director was a fan to begin with and kept encouraging Nasu. Even Nasu was impressed by the finished product.
>DEEN simply cannot capture the writing in a visual format and a lot of people to this day still think Shirou is a generic moron self insert because of them. All nuance and all the interesting parts of f/sn are gone from DEEN.
I genuinely thought you were talking about ufotable but wrote DEEN by accident
Yeah I know you're that weird DEEN apologist. The difference in Shirou alone between DEEN and Ufotable is night and day.
The funny part is that I'm not, that was my first post about this entire argument.
Deen was mediocre but UBW also butchered all the nuance, and is to blame for people not understanding Shirou.
Ufotable also fricked up many great scenes(same with the HF movies), they can't adapt Nasu's actual writing for shit and they cover it with pretty fights.
Which UBW do you guys mean? One was excellent and the other was a steaming pile
the only "excellent" UBW was the VN, everything else is trash.
Man, what a fricking weird scene.
Ufotable was the good one that Nasu was intimately involved with, making excellent changes and extensions to scenes, including parts that were only throw-away one liners in the VN as full scenes and changing the Archer vs Shirou scene for the better.
DEEN was the movie version that absolutely raped the source material. The final fight had Shirou use UBW... then forget about it, project caliburn and 1vs1 Gil who forgot to use gate of babylon and tried 1v1ing Shirou back.
Except it is shit. What the frick are you guys talking about?
deen has always been good
ignore the QUALITY and the actual content is good
Fate unironically shows more respect to historical figures than most anything else in current day including schools.
Exactly. And people focusing on superficial traits
>muh genderbend
>muh merlin dick
>muh japanese teenager
Betray their similarly superficial and shallow understanding of both FSN and the material used in it.
The Merlin dick and canon futa-on-female half-incest is pretty cool, though.
Nasu should just go full futa in her next work.
Wait, nasu is a she?
I love f/sn. Hope it gets an official englisj translation some day. As good as mirror-moon is, it's still got some inaccuracies.
Once Far Side comes out for TsukiRe I bet F/SN will get a remake.
>Remake
No. It'll get an updated rerelease like Mahoyo.
Spit roasted by Archer and Lancer, in that front-back order.
Deen did Shirou vs Archer better than Ufotable
Deen did Shirou vs Gilgamesh better than Ufotable
Deen also doesn't make Lancer shoot lasers and cut up semi trucks in the middle of the freeway
>Deen did Shirou vs Archer better than Ufotable
Shirou reverses his grip on kanshou and bakuya and suddenly overpowers archer. The fight had no discussion on the ideal at all.
>Deen did Shirou vs Gilgamesh better than Ufotable
Shirou casted UBW and then didn't use it and just projected 1 caliburn and fought Gil in a swordfight and won.
???????????????????
the only thing I like about deen stay night archer fight is that they actually talk while fighting instead of stopping for 10 minutes to talk
Nobody spoonfeeding? Weird.
Carnival Phantasm was pure soul. the FGO only version is soulless
Your chart is outdated.
Reading scares the brainlets
I hate shirou so much it's unreal.
I really don't understand how anyone can tolerate him.
I hear the original idea was for him to be female and Saber to be male. You know what? That'd have been a lot more bearable. His personality is insufferable as a male, but I could probably excuse it if it was a cute girl instead.
crazy how shit dies irae would have been without wilhelm carrying
I still remember the times people tried to shill it as some untranslatable kamige.
dies irae is such a waste of time, its rightfully forgotten and irrelevant
Shirou is a contender for my favorite fictional character ever, I think how much you like him depends on how much you like moral centric protagonists though, which I happen to. The only time I dislike him is in UBW but that's more because I think he's written badly and the plot twists itself to accommodate Nasu trying to force in a message that runs counter to the character as established and the themes of the previous two routes, largely by killing off all the characters who would question the moronic shit going on in that route.
>UBW
Sorry, meant Heaven's Feel. UBW is fine.
I am not surprised at all that someone who doesn't like Shirou likes absolute, utter brainless garbage like Dies Irae
>I hate shirou so much it's unreal.
>I really don't understand how anyone can tolerate him.
Shirou is my most precious autistic boy.
>the asspull they did to make HF have a 'happy' ending despite the whole route constantly harping on about how they will pay for their sins.
Nasu actually intended to make HF normal the only ending but pussied out at the last minute. I guess he felt that it was too bleak an ending to conclude the VN with. Still a mistake on his part, in my opinion. Lessens the impact and makes all the shit Shirou gone true ring a bit hollow. Good thing we have Takeuchi-san to thank for giving us The Last Episode, since Fate route ending is the most tragic one of them all.
>Nasu actually intended to make HF normal the only ending but pussied out at the last minute.
Yep, you can tell. It's the only route where the non-true ending feels like the real one.
Yeah, it's like Sunday Day being the true ending of UBW. Just doesn't sit well.
The problem with HF isn't the fact it acts as a direct counter to the first two routes or its darker true ending, that's not what makes so many people hate it. It's all of the misery porn and forced tragedy concerning Sakura, who acts like a wet blanket stuck in bed for the first half of her own arc.
>It's all of the misery porn and forced tragedy concerning Sakura, who acts like a wet blanket stuck in bed for the first half of her own arc.
that stuff is why i liked it the most...
I dislike it because I felt it has very 'dishonest' (for lack of a better word' writing because the writer had a message he wanted to push that doesn't really hold up.
It tries really, really, hard to present HF Shirou as having made a brave and heroic decision to give up his dream, but the entire route to me just felt incredibly bleak and that Shirou was a much weaker and diminished person than he is in the other routes. The narration doesn't want you to think that though, and is really heavy handed about pushing how much better this state of affairs is and you get shit like the mind of steel ending or the numerous random deaths where they insist on this idea where if Shirou has any problem with Sakura murdering innocents then he must be a derranged amoral individual when both Fate/UBW show 'superhero' Shirou to be very kind and humane and there is no reason that couldn't happen in UBW.
It just felt very forced, like the narration and events were twisting to portray HF Shirou in a positive light, right down to the ending pulling an asspull so that everyone's happy and they never address what they did. Even all the characters (like Saber) who would have given Shirou a reality check are immediately killed off just to keep this narrative from being really challenged. I greatly disliked HF and I think it worsens the VN as a whole massively.
>Shirou to be very kind and humane and there is no reason that couldn't happen in UBW.
I meant HF. Again.
Filtered
>Shirou was a much weaker and diminished person than he is in the other routes.
Thank you for putting this into words. I felt the same but I understand where Nasu is coming from. Shirou learning to prioritize loved ones makes him more normal but it also dampens his characterization.
yep
fate>ubw>hf
Good post. But I wouldn't go as far as to say they HF worsens the VN as a whole. It's my least favorite route and I might strongly disagree with HFs message, but it's still good that it's there. As FSN taught us - victory without any challenge is hollow. That goes a level above the VN itself. HF serves as an opposition to the ideas and ideals established in two previous routes. It serves as a test of character to those loyal to the Fate and UBW. You can't claim your convictions are true without there being any challenge to them. That's what HF is for. Nasu said so himself. He urges the readers to choose their answer for themselves and sticking to it no matter what. You can't do that sincerely if you haven't been presented with an alternative. That's why FSN is so great. It nudges the reader into self-reflection and introspection. To unearth their deepest self.
Never really thought of it that way, if that was the intention then I might be less harsh on it.
>Never really thought of it that way
I always thought of it that way. You have to absorb everything FSN has to say, patiently and diligently, to have a proper understanding and experience. HF is a part of FSN, so I can't in good conscious dismiss it. Even if I absolutely reject it's message and hate how it basically shattered the fanbase forever. Even if I spent years battling with wormgays and HFtards. Now you see me defending it. Funny, isn't it?
>if that was the intention then I might be less harsh on it.
I wholeheartedly believe that's what Nasu intended, and all his interviews reinforce that. He said plainly that he expects the reader to have an agency in his beliefs. He has his own preferences, as do all people. Yet he goes out of his way and bend backwards to not let his own bias affect his work. I can only respect that. And as such I will listen to what HF has to say and won't judge it too harshly. It's like a rival arch nemesis that you can't help but respect. It's FSN, and I love FSN. Wholly.
I don't see how Shirou's HF is more diminished or weaker as a person than in the other routes. The reality of each route is a representation of Shirou's survivor guilt with his desire to save people. In the case of Fate route this desire is represented by an unrealistic ideal of wanting to save everyone while in UBW it is reduced to saving whatever people he can while being aware that he can't save everyone and that he might have to make sacrifices. Shirou doesn't really give up his ideals in HF but rather much like in UBW they are reduced to the people he cares about which in this case is Sakura, an individual who will put his desire to save to the upmost limit.
I will agree though that the happy ending is a bit of a copout, but to me at least I felt like it earned it. The entire VN was slowly building up the reveal of the third magic and leaving Realta Nua aside Heaven's Feel is the final ending for the game so the ending was befit for a miracle anyways.
>In the case of Fate route this desire is represented by an unrealistic ideal of wanting to save everyone
That's not entirely true. What you're saying is how Shirou starts his journey. But by the end of Fate route that's not exactly the case anymore. He overcomed his suicidal ideation with the help of Saber and their mutual love and support. His ideal has been affirmed by Saber and her life, mirroring his own in many aspects. As Saber declared that her life and path wasn't wrong in the church's basement, and so did Shirou. He now has someone who loves his way of life. A true soulmate that will one day open the gates of heaven for him. And as such he can't be throwing his life away anymore. The way I see it - Fate Shirou ascended. He is fine to let Saber go, content in knowing that he loves her, forever. In Buddhism this symbolizes braking free from attachments and attaining liberation and nirvana, their idea of heaven. And that exactly where he ends up after death. His ideal is unshakable, his resolution and will is bordering on inhuman. Yes, one might say that he ceased to be human. Did he become an Overman? Possibly. A Tin Man? Most definitely. In any case, Fate Shirou is the one that reaches the Avalon, despite being the weakest and loneliest of them. That alone should tell you how much Saber and her appearance in his life, even for such a short and turbulent period, affected him.
I always thought Sakura herself was the weakest link in HF. She grew on me with HA but when I first read HF I just felt nothing for her character because she didn't exist as a real character prior to HF and in HF the VN asks the reader way too much on the basis of way too little when it comes to her character. Plus the way Saber was written out of the route felt really cynical and ultimately pointless outside of Nasu wanting her out of the way since Alter shows up only twice afterwards, first time as something to run from and then as just an obstacle to get out of the way. Like you know the route is fricked up when Sparks Liner High has more emotion to it than anything to do with Sakura. Let's not even talk about how Sakura can't simply be a rape victim like Kohaku or Fujino, her suffering has to be so over the top that it warps around to being comical rather than tragical, like a fricking sitcom where everything goes wrong with the butt of the joke.
Really HF could be improved massively if Sakura was replaced with Illya or Taiga
That's not what I meant, she just needed a lot more time to develop. Her HA version is quite fun and not dependent on her trauma for characterization, so it's not like it's impossible to make her an endearing character.
Plus Takeuchi should have learned to draw so that she could look like what she is supposed to look like in-universe, a curvy as hell eleven out of ten. Instant popularity!
Exactly my thoughts when I posted
People say this, then act like Rider is awesome when she's barely different.
nobody would care about this shit without fgo being as popular as it is
it would only be that one shitty vn from 2 decades ago that people pretend is good
stay mad
there were like 100 spinoffs and games before FGO
FSN was very popular when it came out, just because you were too young to be on the board then doesn't mean it didn't happen. GO didn't make Fate popular, FSN did.
Type Moon's popularity carried FGO even with how fricking dogshit that game was at launch. It was sent to die but the popularity of their previous works carried it so they started putting in more effort later on with the story.
there are LESS spinoffs post-FGO than pre-FGO
>need to have sex to recharge your servant batteries
this shit will never live it down
A product of its time, and it was done well enough. It's at least funny. I'll take blatant pandering to your target audience over insidious gambling gacha trash that the franchise is now. I also defend HA with that same reasoning and don't give a frick when people complain about its fanservice or different tone/characterizations.
But it's still a canonical thing, the HF manga kept the OG sex scene between Not!Rin and Shirou and that was a few years ago.
>want trad tamamo wife
>get tard tamamo cat
>get tard tamamo aria
What amazes me about the series is how it has an extremely easy and perfect setup for loads of cool stories and yet they completely fricked up it. You've got a battle royale like thing where mages summon ancient heroes as pseudo stands who are sorted into a small set of classes. Easy setup, you have all the heroes of history to draw on, you can do it in loads of settings and do loads of stuff with it. You also have the pseudo world of darkness setting of the Nasuverse which is cool in itself for it.
But then what they do is they ignore that entire setup and release pseudo sci-fi gatcha/musous where one master has 10000000x servants, no one gets developed and there's nothing like the themes of Shirou's idealism/heroism or the urban fantasy stuff ever really explored again in any meaningful way. What the frick happened? It's such a simple setup. You could literally have just done a sequel VN with a new set of characters and the protag summoning Mordred or something if you want some kind of thematic link to FSN. Instead Mordred (and basically anyone else decently relevant) has just been cannibalized for shitty spinoffs/gacha characters. What a mess.
Every spinoff is the equivalent of jingling keys in front of your face going
>REMEMBER THIS? HUH REMEMBER THIS?
Lord El-Melloi II's Case Files is pretty good
because that would actually take effort, why do that when you could just spend your time on maintaining the gacha and rake in tens of millions of dollars every month?
>What the frick happened?
They released HA which was meant to be a goodbye to the series and it's characters because Nasu wanted to move on and even made the central theme of the story learning to let go of things you enjoy so you can start from zero and enjoy new things...then Zero did super well, money started rolling in and Nasu decided to sell out and milk Fate
>Zero did super well
It was actually the 2006 deen anime that exploded the franchise beyond the limited VN market. At the time it was extremely popular and well received. It established the voice cast that is still used today, which lead to the original VN (and I think HA) being rereleased on PS2 with new scenes and voiced dialogue.
DEEN was a push in this direction but the Zero anime doing well funded the UBW anime, and FGO launched right as it finished airing which was enough to carry the momentum into the monster of a franchise it became
Apocrypha tries and fails at doing what you want
but I think Babylonia is pretty good despite having the baggage of being a FGO adaptation
It's because the original VN and story were not about that. The HGW was not the fricking plot, it was just the setting. What made the VN so interesting and longlasting were its characters and focus on the human masters. The only servants that got any real development and introspection at all were Artoria and EMIYA, the latter just being a different version of the MC. Even Gilgamesh was a shit fricking character in the VN that only existed as an endgame boss for Shirou to defeat. Most of the spinoffs fail to capture the same depth of the VN's main characters, put all of the emphasis on the servants over the masters, and take all of the fun and mystery out the urban fantasy setting. Also battle royales just for the sake of battle royales are fricking boring.
Complaining about this is like whining how a generic mecha anime with a monster of the week formula doesn't get the same recognition and longevity of the original NGE series. Nobody watched NGE for the fricking mechs and angels.
VN Gilgamesh was incredibly based, shut the frick up.
Sure he was based, but he was extremely simple and one-dimensional as a foil to Shirou. His role in the story was nothing more than a wall that showed up out of nowhere in fate to reclaim his waifu, then he pivots in ubw to nuking humanity because Shinji is that fricking annoying, then he gets rekt before the halfway point in hf to focus more on Kirei that route. It wasn't until Zero that his character was given some more depth, and that was one of the only good things to come out of that prequel.
I mean he's basically just DIO let's be honest here
despite being the face of the series and having all these clones why is Artoria pretty shafted in everything that's not the original Deen anime
She didn't do much in UBW and HF (understandably so but still)
Zero she gets moments but doesn't really get a complete fight
in the Camelot movies despite being the antagonist all she really does is just sit on a chair
when are e gonna get a remake of Fate route
She has a pretty complete arc in the Fate route honestly. It is always a bit of a problem because she basically has to be the most visible heroine in any route because she's the protagonist's servant so they have to go out of their way to shift the focus from her to Rin/Sakura.
Fate seems pretty much the canon route anyway since it's the only one that gets a continuation/special post story scene once you beat all three routes.
HF is cool enough since it gives us Alter
but UBW writes her off in stasis for half the story only for her to get up and just stand there to watch Shirou and Archer fight
HF would have been better if Saber was the love interest again honestly. There is more emotion in the Shirou/Alter fight than any interactions with Sakura. Shirou having to kill her in the end would have been a great ending to it and more in line with the tone of HF rather than the asspull they did to make HF have a 'happy' ending despite the whole route constantly harping on about how they will pay for their sins.
Saber and Rin get better development in HF than Sakura does it's really funny.
If a VN remake gets announced this year for the 20th anniversary (lmao), I'd love to see HF get split into the dedicated Sakura and Illya routes it was meant to be. Sakura would be a lot better if she was given more focus and had more scenes in HF, while most of Illya's scenes could be moved to her own route where they would make more sense. Also Sakura's characterization in HA is way way better than how she was treated in HF, and I would love to see her own route with that personality.
I highly doubt they would remake F/SN until the far side routes get released for Tsukihime remake. I wouldn't be surprised though since Mahoyo, Tsukihime, and Extra are getting attention recently.
Well he sure as hell won't bother has ass writing something actually new so I suppose the FSN remake has to happen at some point
nta but alter was terrible, a literal coldsteel blackened palette swap because shes evil now for some reason? Her very existence is a severe tonal clash with the rest of the relatively muted and ambiguous vn, genuinely felt that she was something that accidentally wandered of a saturday day morning cartoon. I would have preferred if she was a walking corpse controlled by the shadow akin to herc, who shirou has to put down, but what they ended up with was genuinely awful and one of the most embarrassing things I've ever seen by nasu.
what the frick are you crying about you drama queen
>when are e gonna get a remake of Fate route
I don't know but it's pure suffering being a Sabergay because it's my favorite route.
Gilgamesh is at his best when he's an otaku like in CP
Bros...
>people actually want a F/SN remake
TsukiRe was good, the only real problems were changing the voice actors and some of the redesigns.
F/SN still holds up, it definitively does not need a remake.
Grand Order on the other hand...
The only reason i want a FSN remake is because Heaven's Feels is a mess.
Fate and UBW are perfectly fine (maybe Fate finale could be slightly rewritten since Kotomine wasn't the same in HF), but Heaven's Feels suffers from squeezing two routes into one. A remake of giving Illya her own route, and making Sakura way less insufferable would heavily improve the VN.
But since this is modern TM, they may frick up the whole thing instead fixing the issues.
>But since this is modern TM, they may frick up the whole thing instead fixing the issues.
Name one mistake in TsukiR.
>"I don't like [new thing added to Ciel route]"
Mistakes. Frick ups.
.
>Name one mistake in TsukiR.
No Nero
Yeah, one of the biggest problems of HF is that Sakura only exists to suffer, her relationship with Shirou is incredibly basic and we never see more facets of it, with Saber and Rin it could be allowed that Shirou would argue with them and even get angry with some of their decisions, but Sakura is only there to make Shirou feel bad for her.
>Shirou and Saber are boring as frick.
>Yes, but it serves the themes and narrative.
>Sakura being an annoying victim is the point of her route.
>"Wow, route ruined, Sakura sucks."
I don't get it.
>Shirou and Saber are boring as frick.
Only you think this, and you really shouldn't project such bad taste onto everyone else.
Shirou is such a massive step down from Shiki that it's not even funny. It's necessary for the story to work, but it's obnoxious. Dude's boring as hell in order to facilitate his arc.
it's the other way around
shiki is the shirou that normalgays make him out to be, but because he has an alter ego inside him that surfaces one in a blue moon and turns him into le epic rapeman of death, contrarian homosexuals will look past all that and jerk him off for years on end while seething over the ginger homosexual
NTA but Shiki is nothing like Shirou. Neither the real him nor the normalgayvision one.
And calling people contrarians for prefering him over Shirou sounds like seethe.
Yes, shirou is an actual character while shiki is a self insert, glad we can agree. Don't even get me started on that, shittyhime and its wienersuckers have nursed over two decades worth of pure seethe towards fate, and by extension shirou getting attention instead of their precious twilight but for boys.
So you are indeed seething at Tsukihime fans for no good reason. Thanks for the confirmation.
remind me again who was seething two years ago when saber was announced in that flopped kusoge?
The Melty Blood gays? That's almost an different fandom entirely. And they were right in that it opened the door for FGO trash (which deserves to be loathed, unlike fsn).
ngl, its sad that fate grand carnival had nothing to do with tsukihime remake or the kara no kyoukai films that ended around 2013. It was quite pathetic.
They're both player inserts.
Ryougi and Aoko are Nasu inserts.
>Yes, shirou is an actual character while shiki is a self insert, glad we can agree.
Anon, please. Just like Shirou, Shiki is too mentally ill to be a self insert. We are talking a guy who's first reaction seeing a white woman is slicing her into multiple pieces. Not to mention, he's got like a split personality thing going
>Don't even get me started on that, shittyhime and its wienersuckers have nursed over two decades worth of pure seethe towards fate, and by extension shirou getting attention instead of their precious twilight but for boys.
Sounds like you didn't read Tsukihime. Shame, because I love both.
Bad example, given that was Roa body jacking him.
Technically, he didn't bodyjack him, he triggered his Inversion Impulse through his connection with SHIKI.
It's basically the same thing. Shiki was following her on monster hunter instincts and Roa flipped the kill switch once he closed in. Shiki would have been able to fight the urge if Roa didn't frick with his brain.
>this post was written by shiki
The name of every anon in this thread is shiki.
How the frick is Roa both the vampire in the school and the pasty white basement dweller in shiki's house?
Alternate timelines. In one timeline, Roa finally takes full control of Tohno and makes the school basement his crypt. In another, the pure seethe keeps Tohno in control. The implication is the stress of this caused his hair to go gray.
>posts character that's not even from tsukihime
The art isn't. The character is.
Kinda.
Still his body.
He did it appear and gets mentioned in one of the bad ends, but as Shiki himself
Didn't he appear in Ceil's route as a kid when Shiki lost his consciousness?
Based on references to the coffee scene in Kagetsu Tohya and Actress Again, he is in Tsukihime. Just not physically split.
cope
They're nearly the same dude. They just process their martyr complex differently. HA Avenger is almost exactly the same as Shiki, right down to his coping mechanisms and how he talks to girls.
I do not see how anyone can read FSN and think Shirou is boring. The entire VN is about Shirou and he has like 4x the development of anyone else. I found Saber the most interesting of the heroines as well.
On paper he's good.
In practice, if you aren't 12 years old, it's hours of "Oh my God, yes, I get it, shut up, please." His interiority is important, but the length and structure of the story means that most of the time there's nothing to actually be gathered from what's being said.
Shiki's an obnoxious little shit, but he's fun as a point of view character because he's constantly projecting in little ways that inform you about him. He's a complete person. Shirou does this, but it reflects his hypocrisy and inner vacancy due to his ridiculous aspirations, so you're stuck with a less entertaining psychopath.
I do kind of get that but it's more of an issue with Nasu's writing being incredibly longwinded than Shirou specifically I'd say.
It's part of it, and the other part is theming. Shirou and Shiki are very similar characters at their core, just placed in different stories with different themes. Shirou is more high-concept than Shiki and his dilemma is one of self-denial and empty platitudes, so he's kind of forced to be less interesting despite being written better than OG release Shiki. He's just not great as a POV character, but the story doesn't work if he's not the POV. It's really frustrating, but he just kind of has to be like that.
Nanaya is a shortcut to the point for people too stupid to notice that Shiki is constantly thinking and behaving like a goddamn weirdo. Like Shirou, he's an insane person who's put up a shield of "Nah, I'm normal." The part that makes him more fun despite being even more of a player self-insert than Shirou in the original game is that he is constantly giving you insight into his mentality and his traits as a person in a way Shirou can't until ~halfway or more into his routes. The guy lies to himself WAY more often, has bizarre opinions, and is more frustrating than even Shirou's autistic ass.
It's not that Shiki is some great character as much as it's him not being held back by the themes of his story and being a more conflict-oriented guy at heart. Shirou suppresses where Shiki internally writhes.
You will never be a superhero
get off the internet Archer
Saber is a fricking idiot in the FATE route who should have lost and died several times over. I got legit mad at some of the shit she pulled.
And that is why she is the perfect woman for shirou, the only person who can match her in stupid combat decisions and asspulls
kino
>King Arthur, best character of VN everyone
picrel
>not even the same VN
>doesn't know the context of the scene
>not even the most ridiculous saber scene of that VN
Why do ret/a/rds think posting a screenshot from a different VN that's filled with light hearted scenes of every character is a gotcha?
>muh different vn
>literally sequel by the same author
i want to sniff that ass
And it's extremely based.
>written in 2005
HA's SoL scenes were not all by Nasu. Probably why some of them are not so great.
>Probably why some of them are not so great.
It's the opposite if anything, Nasu didn't figure out how to write enjoyable SoL until Mahoyo.
Kagetsu Tohya is good and I'm tired of pretending it wasn't.
Honestly if they wanted a character that Shirou was willing to give up his dream and ideals for they should have used Taiga, not only would it make more sense for the fact that she is the person Shirou has known the longest besides Kerry, but they could have even put more hints in previous routes like when Shirou was willing to kill Rin if she did something that could hurt Taiga.
Because 20% of the United States are functionally illiterate.
And lord knows there's a percentage of the ones who CAN read who HATE reading it and would rather switch on an english dub so they can just have that shit as background noise so they can say they "watched it" but need someone else on Youtube to actually tell them what happened because they weren't fricking paying attention.
>Dude what if one servant just had all the noble phantasms lol
There has never been a case of the VN not being the best way to experience a series. Even the S;G anime which everyone liked is still dogshit compared to the VN.
Bazett and Avenger's scenes are so fricking good, kinda makes me wish all of HA was like that
I would have liked to have more of them too. But I feel their story doesn't work as well without the backdrop of the stupid pointless SoL scenes. It's all part of that "picture".
They only work with the daily life to contrast them. There's not enough substance to their scenes to hold a whole game.
But Hollow Ataraxia would benefit from way fewer optional scenes, yes.
Part of the reason HA works so well is because the SoL was Avenger's wish though.
What Fate media is actually worth consuming?
I've read F/SN and HA. I've watched Zero, UBW, and HF.
>apoc is offensively mediocre but is kind of cool I guess, don't turn the sound up too high
>prillya is great especially if you're a pedophile, eventually becomes a more standard fate story, no ending in sight
>strange fake is a proper battle royale like zero but better, although it jerks off fate references too much and also might never end
>case files is good for loregays
>emiya gohan and carnival phantasm for comfy spinoffs
>What Fate media is actually worth consuming?
>
>I've read F/SN and HA. I've watched Zero, UBW, and HF.
That's basically it. Well, there's also Deen, Apocrypha, Strange Fake, Garden of Avalon too.
You can give Extra on the PSP a shot if you like turn base rpgs. Its suppose to get a remake but that shit is vaporware at this point. Extella is like a weird sequel/alt timeline to that one and is a mushou or however you spell it.
I will now watch DEEN Fate because of this thread. I hope it's good.
you'll enjoy the music at the very least
Honestly if there is one thing it nails from the vn is the music and atmosphere, that alone makes it worth a watch imo
I've said it before but watching deen feels just like going through the vn, ufotable is just sterile and alien in comparison. Deen nails almost everything that made the vn so good and transferred them into the anime medium.
>. Deen nails almost everything that made the vn so good
You have completely different standards on what is good to vast majority of population.
Deen is just trash, trash adaptation and trash animation for the trashest part of the whole VN, while butchering other routes.
Youre honestly autistic if you think it's redeemable.
Not them, but it's a decent companion piece. It handled Tsubami Gaeshi better than UFOtable, but is incomprehensible if you hadn't read the scene in the VN.
>It handled Tsubami Gaeshi better than UFOtable
no it didnt.
?si=O2Ad-no8IGEfLIjH
Deen UBW's version is perfect.
explain like lazy dogshit is perfect? It just makes it seem like Assassin is fast. vnfanboys are so cringe.
It's the only one that actually has decent composition. UFOtable's version makes what happens clearer but looks terrible as a result.
He's a shitposter, anon. He shows up occasionally to lie that DEEN is better than Ufotable. Ignore him, he'll go away.
>DEEN is better than Ufotable
Depends on which "ufotable". I'd say Deen is certainly better than Zero and HF, about on par with UBW, with KnK moves being the only truly great Ufotable work to date. If we're talking music, Deen absolutely blows everything Ufotable ever did straight out of the water. Ufotable is pointless to anyone who likes and prefers the VN. So only secondaries rate it highly.
>I'd say Deen is certainly better than Zero and HF,
DEEN is better than nothing. The animation is embarrassing, they repeat stock animation (count how many times Saber does the swinging her sword animation cut, go on fricking do it), they miss the point on almost every single scene, they make Shirou as generic as can be and the only good thing they can do is music.
Their UBW movie is by far the worst thing I have ever laid eyes on. It's insulting.
>Ufotable is pointless to anyone who likes and prefers the VN
I like and prefer the VN but Ufotable's UBW adaptation is grand, and you are a psychotic contrarian shitposting moron.
why are you so mad?
I was born mad.
This is the best animated segment in all of DEEN/Stay and it's still shit. There's no soul in this. It was a low effort, hastily shit out product to capitalize on F/SN's rising popularity.
>There's no soul in this.
For one to recognize a soul one must possess a soul. Webm you posted oozes soul form every pore. Too bad you're unable to see it behind your seething.
>muh animation
No wonder you praised Ufo's adaption even though that thing is complete dogshit with rhino nose abomination for character designs.
>rhino nose abomination for character designs.
If you defend pic related you are not a human in my eyes.
I'm being trolled right now. No one actually prefers DEEN's crap.
>No one actually prefers DEEN's crap.
I do. Ufo's character designs are atrocious and I fully agree with the other anon.
>Ufo's character designs are atrocious
I don't get this. What about them is bad? They look way better than deen's blocky moron faces. This is ugly as sin.
Deen Rin looks a million times better than Rhino Rin.
>Deen Rin looks a million times better than Rhino Rin.
Wrong.
>Sterilized. Off model. Bland. Generic. Rhino noses. Wrong color palette.
They have their own character designs and stick to them, nothing off model about them ever. You seem to be upset they're not like the VN designs, which were already pretty piss poor. Ufotable's designs were a massive improvement, and they follow Takeuchi's CURRENT style.
> since I absolutely love FSN-era Takeuchi.
Then we will never agree because I find Takeuchi an abhorrent artists, always has been, but his ideas were good.
>You seem to be upset they're not like the VN designs, which were already pretty piss poor
Excalibait.
Are you implying that he has a bad design or something? You'd have a much better argument if you attacked Tsukihime for looking like shit because it did look pretty bad here and there. But SN was a huge upgrade from Tsukihime.
>Are you implying that he has a bad design or something?
You say Rin has a Rhino nose in the UBW anime but defend shit like this which is worse. You're a hypocrite.
>Then we will never agree because I find Takeuchi an abhorrent artists
Yeah, we won't then. Since FSN Takeuchi is one of my favorite artists across all anime and anime-adjacent media. Can't really explain why. I just find his character very pleasant to look at. Simple, elegant art and timeless, easily recognizable designs.
its so good that artist himself has thrown it in the garbage, and has to use help of other artists to get it colored and shaded.
(look at those knees!)
His hands are a lot worse. He can't draw a normal hand that isn't in doing that weird claw grip thing he draws characters with.
>timeless,
Takeuchi's early styles are the embodiment of everything wrong with early 2000's digital era anime.
It's mostly just the heads and arms. The rendering and bodies are fine.
>It's mostly just the heads and arms.
Yeah the gorilla arms like Archer's legendary knee-length sword swangers in particular.
>the rendering
Wasn't by Takeuchi himself, he had others do the coloring.
>the bodies
He quite literally cannot draw more than 2 poses. Legs crossed and arms spread, or characters standing slightly off to the side and look straight at the screen.
no one actually believes this. you're not a real human.
That scene got me so hard.
>Archer talking about how she's not sexy at all while she's drying off from a shower in the next room.
>Rin masterfully deflecting his attempts to get her angry and unfocus her so she doesn't find out who he is.
>She just slides right on up, smug as frick and psychoanalyzes him
>All while looking like this.
Ufotable mastered that scene in particular.
>What about them is bad?
Sterilized. Off model. Bland. Generic. Rhino noses. Wrong color palette.
Deen is much closer to the original Takeuchi style, which is a huge plus for me, since I absolutely love FSN-era Takeuchi. Ufotable unironically broke him, and he's been on a rapid decline ever since. I'd unironically take your pic related over any Ufotable (apart from KnK).
you dont know a single word that you used in your comment.
>Deen is much closer to the original Takeuchi style
And yet not any close to modern Takeuchi's style, which Nasu and him wants. Takeuchi improved his shitty art, and ufotable refined it further with better anatomy.
>Ufotable unironically broke him
you got it backwards moron, ufotable adapted his new style
>Wrong color palette.
moron detected. Again it's backwards, the color palette is much more accurate to VN than deen is and characters actually fit in with the background.
>Ufo's character designs are atrocious
ufo's character design is straight up upgrade from takeuchi's modern style. UPGRADE. deen shit doesnt look like takeuchi's art at all, not the old one nor new one.
Deen has the best and only good unlimited blade works.
You're entitled to your own opinion. I'm not obliged to agree with it.
>animation is embarrassing
Don't really care, it's good enough for me and it is soulful. Ufotable is not. Literally bright seizure inducing flashes to glue clueless teenagers in. No substance, all style. Yeah, it's pretty, but I don't really see any point in watching it for the visuals alone. If I want to experience FSN again I'd just boot up the VN and go from there.
How long are each route for Tsukihime
Pretty long. Think of them like a season of anime. If you're on the original version, you can at least notice copy pasted parts in Ciel's route and skip them.
Zero is STILL the only good Fate media
What are you gonna do about it?
I thought the ubw anime was awful. It didn’t even feel like I was watching fsn. Oddly enough the deen anime were kind of a miss but had memorable moments and music.
Post your favorite track from the VN (or adaptations)
?feature=shared
This screen gave me a feeling non of the adaptations could reproduce https://youtube.com/watch?v=j4xsfkhcw-A
It's so fricking good, has to be the best title screen drop ever made.
I really like the remade 2012 soundtrack.
Recent mystery EVNs on Steam over the past few years:
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/1249260/Birth_ME_Code/
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/1228600/Blankspace/
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/1414250/CORPSE_FACTORY/
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/1568920/Clean_Slate/
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/1820720/The_Divine_Deception/
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/2011310/Entropic_Float_This_World_Will_Decay_And_Disappear/
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/2058090/The_Game_of_Fourtune/
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/1338940/Head_AS_Code/ (remake)
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/1271300/Methods_The_Detective_Competition/
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/1020030/Quantum_Suicide/
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/1940040/The_Price_Of_Flesh
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/2091580/SYNESTHESIA/
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/1513120/The_Zodiac_Trial/
Upcoming mystery EVNs on Steam:
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/1728290/Decide_4_God/ (finale to the Abime series)
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/1041270/Exogenesis_Perils_of_Rebirth/ (never ever)
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/1349820/The_Lost_Delinquents_of_Rollings_High/
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/1287170/Thiefs_Roulette/
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/1929350/Ubel/
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/2385550/Underground22/
People read Fate for porn?
A part of HA's appeal is that it's the last thing TM did as more or less an indie studio rather than as a gigantic corporation with a committee and stockholders to please. There's just a palpable difference between the projects that came before, and the projects that came afterwards.
>is that it's the last thing TM did as more or less an indie studio rather than as a gigantic corporation with a committee and stockholders to please.
But that's Mahoyo.
it's also the first nasu tried to do ever
Anything that came out after the Deen anime is firmly in the corporate era. But Mahoyo gets a pass because it's also the first story he did, like that other anon said.
type moon is still private surely
It's more that Nasu got sidetracked trying to run a company. TsukiRe is their best VN yet.
Did any of you who read HA actually played the hanafuda game? Does it give you enough points to unlock everything in the shrine?
People actually like the UFO table anime? Sometimes I think about watching their HF adaptation, but I remember how UBW made me drop it so quick. I even watched some clips of my favorite parts of the VN and it was terrible, the music was worse than the Kenji Kawai OSTs. I think they are much more adept at adapting something like KnK or F/Z, but UBW was just a miss. I imagined they'd shit up the Fate route too if they ever did it.
Pure soul.
Based
The best scene is the first one, since you're a based man reading through FSN.
But seriously, there's too many to count.
>Sometimes I think about watching their HF adaptation, but I remember how UBW made me drop it so quick.
A wise choice. I had a genuine fanatic Fategay for a friend who forced me to watch the movies and they were so terrible I almost want to cut contact with him.
>They didn't butcher anything essential to story cohesion
Off the top of my head
>Shiro summong 9 Lives Blade Work, spin like a fricking fidget spinner AND THEN stabs Berseker which then completely evaporate Berserker because reasons
>Shiro fight with Kirei is completely butchered
>cut out Shiro's bonding with Illya so when she appears before the Holy Grail at the end, it just completely lacks weight
>Rin's bond with Sakura was told via a short flashback of them playing Old Maid that happens right in the middle of a very tense sequence, making the flashback a complete tonal whiplash that feels like a poor taste joke
>after the Holy Grail destroyed, the movie told us that Shiro is fricking dead, then just went ahead and show him just fine during the credit rolls
What is the best scene of the VN?
That part early on where you get to read how much of a fricking loser Tohsaka thinks Shinji is after he tries to hit on her.
It was a thrust like lightning.
I forgot the exact sentence but Shirou saying
>Goodbye Shinji
While choking him out was sick
HA Emiya, best Emiya.
>People arguing over whether the trilogy of movies that compressed 40 hours of internal monologues into 4.5 hours of total screentime was good
Wasn't it obvious from the start that it'd be nothing but shallow fanservice?
Because too many people are either too lazy or their brains are microwaved beyond recognition and they can't keep attention long enough. The problem comes in the fact that the anime adaptations of this stuff are never the best way to actually get an understanding of things because you can't adapt every facet of a novel reliably into animaton. 99% of all the lukewarm, doughbrained "Kiritsugu is better protag than Shirou" arguements are solely based off the anime adaptations, and you can't get a proper read on Shirou without knowing his inner thought processes because then you recognize the type of person he is.
It also doesn't help that the mentality of gatekeeping is that it's somehow bad, by that logic if I read the cliff notes of any book I'm apparently 100% qualified to judge it even if the nuances of certain characters or the importance of certain moments could never be properly contextualized when condensed into bulletpoints.
>Kiritsugu is better protag than Shirou
Literally who unironically believes this?
Quite literally almost everyone who hasn't read the VN thinks that, so most of the fanbase.
gil is a cute
/Zero secondaries who refuse to give F/SN a chance for one reason or another. I know one streamer I watched once claimed /zero is the only good one and has gone on record saying he barely got very deep into the first route of the VN before dropping it, refused to watch the only good F/SN adaptation (UBW) and only watched the HF movies which justifiably validated his bias by being terrible adaptations.
A lot of people are probably filtered by the three hour long exposition dumping prologue with Rin.
>A lot of people are probably filtered by the three hour long exposition dumping prologue with Rin.
That's pretty stupid considering the discussions between Rin and Archer are great and I wish they had more.
Isn't there only a single scene...after she summons him?
The prologue is weird to me because I like the idea of it, it sets up a lot of future events (Gil talking to Sakura, the pendant, UBW, the fire), and it's a great way to book end the game with HF's epilogue
But it is a bit meandering before Rin summons Archer, it can feel like an Otome at first.
I can't, the presentation pisses me off too much. The static dialog boxes with no attempt at flair or introspection like the rest of the Nasuverse, The shitty ""choices"". How every 5 seconds the plot is interrupted by "Oh no, enemies!".
How can gachatards sit through that garbage?
Some of the writing is worthwhile in spite of it all. Blame coomers for a massive amount of Type Moon content being poorly formatted.
>I can't, the presentation pisses me off too much. The static dialog boxes with no attempt at flair or introspection like the rest of the Nasuverse, The shitty ""choices"". How every 5 seconds the plot is interrupted by "Oh no, enemies!".
>How can gachatards sit through that garbage?
I felt the same as you but I slog through them anyway because I'm a masochist.
The best it ever gets is LB6, there are actual descriptive paragraphs in that one and the main character briefly has scenes of developing a personality.
The tiny ass text boxes are a pain in the ass but Nasu shines through in LB6 with a ton of parallels and nicely written pieces. If nothing else I recommend reading Fae Britain to get a glimpse of what FGO COULD have been if it wasn't a piece of shit.
I knew it was kino as soon as they introduced a giantess. Nothing says "Nasu is really invested" like big hot girls.
Nothing says Nasu like vivid detail about pain and injury.
God I love LB6 so much. I wish I could recommend it as a stand-alone story, but sadly it sits atop the shitheap which is FGO's collective plot and makes little sense without that as a foundation. I've tried to think about how to strip down the necessary context to the barest essentials, but ultimately it's just not salvageable.
What a tragedy. When FGO's servers are shut down LB6's amazing story will be lost to time with no appreciable to way to preserve it outside hours-long youtube videos.
The plot from Rin's perspective is pretty otome-like. She's basically the closest thing to a protagonist after Shirou, she's the undisputed alpha b***h of the school, she lives in a western-style mansion, she's one of the handful of special people in the world who can use magic and she's one of the greatest natural talents the world of mages has seen on top of that, she's constantly surrounded by hot guys who want to get in her pants or are super tsun for her, plus the two other heroines are canonically jealous of her looks and poise.
Don't forget that she's nominally a Christian.
I mean, that's not an otome thing, is it? But I guess it makes her even more unique and donut steel since she lives in japan.
It kind of is. Angelique, Princess Maker, that kind of shit? It fits into the "What if I was a European fairy tale princess uwu" fantasy. As you said, it makes them "special." It's not requisite, but a lot of otome go that angle, especially back in the day.
Yeah, I get what you mean when you put it like that.
Plus she even has a lot of "stronk female character" action girl moments, like when she defeats Medea with kung fu, so she can rake in even those points, too.
People who don't read books, basically.
Makes sense. Shirou felt the same way. On the surface, Kiritsugu *IS* better.
Look m8, I'll push the Fate VN any day. But frick that thing is longer than the goddam Lord of the Ring books. You got to be dedicated to be sitting at your PC for hours and just reading.
...even though that's what most of us do here anyway.
The Realta Nua PC port helps by splitting the routes up so you can skip the beginning and know you aren't fricking up some critical choice needed for a path branch. Visual novels in general are pretty dang long but if you're looking to claim to be a fan of a series you'd better be willing to actually do the homework.
>But frick that thing is longer than the goddam Lord of the Ring books
Its literally about as long as a normal jprg which is 60-80 hours.
Nope
Every time I look at FGO I get unreasonably angry.
Nothing unreasonable about it. It's a natural reaction to such colossal travesty. FGO is an abomination and I'll be damned if there ever comes a day when I look at it without disgust.
Just go watch videos of the main plot.
Having interacted with normalgay anime fans, it is two things:
>These people actually have no love for the medium, it is the lowest bar to entry for anyone trying to be socially dominant despite them being abject failures
And
>Most anime fans are functionally borderline illiterate
This. I don't even admit I watch anime or read VNs. I'd rather talk about my books; the count of monte cristo, house of leaves, jonathan strange and mr. norrel, and I recently got into the wheel of time series.
Anime fans are some of the most shallow people on the planet, and I'm not some pretentious gay chasing symbolism talks either they are just incapable of anything beyond the most surface level reactions. Gotta hide that power level.
Out of those we get to see past the prologue, just a handful that I remember. Fate route had the fewest, UBW had the most such as after Caster showing up in the house (bridge in the anime) and after Archer kidnaps her, but they have nice chemistry in the few scenes we see of them.
It's pretty nice when you meet someone that is actually a fan of the medium(s), but damn is it not like wading through shit to find them. I've basically stopped going to anime conventions because everything and everyone is just into the most normalgay anime, or the most meme anime. At the most recent event I went to, there was only 1 jigoraku cosplayer despite it being done by Mappa, and most people hadn't even heard of it. Mappa had previously done other popular series like Chainsaw Man and Yuri on Ice, and I have no idea how or why people pay 0 attention to who makes the things they like or why they dont follow them. But then I remember, they are frauds trying to create a social presence in something they consider as being full of nerds.
Yeah unfortunately most people treat any modern medium as an excuse to socialize, to fit in, not because they actually are passionate about it.
i enjoyed Tsukihime remake and am eagerly awaiting red garden
MBTL sucks tho
>a gacha mobile kusoge becomes the main entry in the series
what
the
frick
Even for the VN itself, you now have diverging arguments. Even the JP version has the Realta Nua vs original divide. Then you have multiple different English versions.
Including a modded version of the original release with some Realta Nua features backported in. A translation of the actual Realta Nua version. Then a newer heavily modded original version that adds HD graphics and other features. This of course has various content options and switches for new/old music and movies. And to top it all off, there's now competing translations for the script.
Hey, fair enough, but I think most people agree the newest version of the app is best, even if you're a purist.
You know that "Apple Visualization thing"? im pretty sure that is why, people that like reading can actually parse the info and fill in blanks to basically have the read scenarios play out in their head as they read allowing them to get really immersed and enjoy reading and consider it superior. for others it is like reading a grocery list all the way through so they want a adaption that does the heavy lifting for them.
Let's put it this way, when someone is described as sexy some people will be able to imagine a sexy person to their own specifications of what sexy is (until further clarification by the writer, that will obviously alter the way the reader "sees" the character), others will just see the word "sexy", but if they go see a movie with a hot actress (Or cartoon character, or assortment of polygons) they see a hot actress (or other thing) that fills in the blank for them. Not to dis those other forms of media as lesser or anything, more just noting they are easier for more people to engage with BECAUSE they leave less to the imagination.
Basically some people just can't use text to immerse themselves.
This is pretty funny since VNs are already books on babby mode, with illustrations, animations, and background music.
Exactly, it kinda comes on levels like that.
>Basically some people just can't use text to immerse themselves.
This is funny because I find Nasu's style of writing prose where he goes into excruciating details about something then just to immediately throw away everything he just written a few minutes later to be very immersive-breaking.
I'm an appletard who can only visualize outlines and vague shapes but I can fully immerse myself to books and VNs.
Why do japanese writers love that repeating wall of text thing so much, the "THIS CHAIR"-s?
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FGO is shit yeah but the Seraph CCC story, Avalon le Fae, and Atlantis do comfortably stand up there as some of the best writing in Fate. They still fall short of the VNs, though. I went into LB6 expecting to have to rank it between the FSN routes, but its just not that good. Still fricking amazing, but it just isn't them.
my hero.
I have too much ADHD to read and I have a job now, so I literally won't have time to read a VN.
It's like 70 hours. I don't have enough time in my life for that.
Ace Attorney is the only VN-adjacent thing I've bothered with. And it's largely helped by being portable, so I can get comfy in bed. I genuinely don't understand why anyone would want to read a VN at their desk.
I also read Nocturnal Illusion when I was too young for it.
>it's undoubtable that a true warrior could beat me even in this world. Mastery of even a single weapon would result in my death. But you are not a warrior, or even a soldier. All you can do is throw swords. And in this world, I can create an infinite number of swords to throw back. That is the only magic permitted to Emiya Shirou. There's no rule that says a fake can't surpass the original. Here I come, King of Heroes. Do you have enough swords in stock?
How do you respond without sounding mad?
Don't respond, just silently take out Ea and drill his ass to death.
>I have more energy than you
They're just dumb. That said Fate Zero was kino anime though.
Visual novels are for virgins
anyone unironically calling an 80 hour VN with 1 hour's worth of sex scenes porn deserves to be dragged out into the street
It's a game of telephone. Japan classifies anything with sexually explicit content as 18+ only, and colloquially these games are called eroge, erotic games. Virtually any amount of sexual content earns the 18+ rating, and consequently the "eroge" label. So an 80 hour VN with maybe 30 minutes of sex scenes scattered through out it is an eroge.
A combination of ignorance and stupidity on the part of foreigners causes this to be misunderstood. They think erotic games are pornos, games created for fap fuel and nothing else. Others deliberately spread this misinformation as a kind of trolling.
I can't really blame gaijins for thinking eroge means porn game because the term "erotic game" itself is already misleading and sounds like another way to say porn game. Doesn't sound that different from nukige.
Calling the whole VN "erotic game" because of >5% of game content is like calling a game with a racing minigame a racing game, or a game with fishing minigame a fishing game.
who cares it tranime slop