>BotW was in development for 5 years
>TotK was in development for 6 years
Does it show? Does TotK feel like a game that has been in development for a total of 11 years?
>BotW was in development for 5 years. >TotK was in development for 6 years
>BotW was in development for 5 years
>TotK was in development for 6 years
Does it show? Does TotK feel like a game that has been in development for a total of 11 years?
First for galink
Mental illness
Hot
The real Tears of the Kingdom
whenever i think of a zelda thing, i make a new zelda thread
i love making zelda threads
they are so fun
everyone comes into my threads and posts
we talk about zelda and it is a really good time
sometimes i make more than one zelda thread
i think zelda is the best franchise
i love all zelda games
i wish i were zelda in real life
TOTK was supposed to be DLC. Aonuma admitted that. But Nintendo execs wanted it to be a full sequel, so they rushed the temples and the depths. TOTK is an unfinished DLC prototype unironically.
You’re telling me over 11 million people were stupid enough to get hyped for, invest in and pay 70 bucks for glorified DLC?
modern consoomerism
That managed to be GOTY without any competition.... yep
I paid $50
$40 depending on how you look at it...
Also our expectations were completely out of whack because of covid probably extending dev time by like two years. TOTK is a good game, but I expected more.
In the 6 years since BotW, Nintendo:
>Modified the world a little bit
>Added a few sky islands
>Added the depths (which is mostly empty outside of recycled bosses / enemies and chests with amiibo sets
>Changed sheikah slate powers to Rauru's arm and ultra hand
>Added the (disgusting) fuse mechanic
>Rewrote the story of the game and made it even more barebones (somehow) than BotW
So was open world a good decision for the Zelda franchise if every other aspect has had to suffer because of it?
It's rushed DLC
They started development in 2019 but they spent a year figuring out how to include the data on the original game
Once that failed the NIntendo board stepped in and told Aonuma to make a new game
They didn't know what to do so they decided to reuse the DLC
They made the temples in 2021 and came up with the new abilities
In 2022 they slapped the depths and told Nintendo to give them more time to finish the game
That's not what happened at all. Why the hell are you lying? I don't think the game is perfect either, but spreading misinformation only makes you look like a moron.
The concept for Tears of the Kingdom started as an idea for DLC after BotW released, but Aonuma quickly realized that the ideas they had for new mechanics outscoped what was possible in an expansion. In the end, they end, they elected to turn those idas into a full sequel so they would be able to realize as many of them as possible. We've known this for four years now.
Source: https://www.polygon.com/nintendo/2019/6/19/18691452/zelda-breath-of-the-wild-sequel-2-dlc-changes-nintendo
i don’t really know what aonuma was smoking because having now played the game, the scope of totk definitely feels like an expansion, not a new game. everyone is puzzled at the work that was done over 6 years
It's mostly the ultrahand and fusion mechanics that necessitated the sequel. From everythign they've stated, those mechanics weren't possible to pull off in the engine they had built for BotW, or at least not to the extent they wished it to be
that is not my problem as the consumer
if they wasted a ton of time and money having to implement this one gameplay feature while neglecting everything else like the story, the map, the enemies, the gameplay loop, the exploration etc. then from the perspective of the consumer, they just had poor management and executive decisions. if zelda was primarily a puzzle game with a much narrower scope like portal, it would make sense, but it’s not
The new mechanics are fundamentally tied to the gameplay loop of Tears of the Kingdom. Everything in the world was shifted to accomodate and feed back into ultrahand/fuse. I agree with you that the story wasn't great (neither was BotW's honestly), but everything else was far from neglected.
While playing the game, it really felt like the developers had put in a lot of care towards fine-tuning the world for the new gameplay direction on offer.
i’m still doing shrines and enemy camps and the extremely limited dungeons. environmental kills and shiekah slate abilities being used for combat and traversal were present in botw as well. there were tons of ways to use bombs alone, some of which definitely wasn’t intended by the devs, and you could already manipulate the physics engine in botw. so what has changed? once again, i will argue that exploration has been rendered moot due to flying and the extremely broken recall ability. and you may counter that exploration is no longer a focus since the player already knows the map from botw, but then therein lied the rub - that the map from botw exists center stage in totk at all is an issue in and of itself
i don’t even want to talk about the enemies, which are probably the most undercooked part of totk. virtually all of the bosses can be defeated by bullet time arrows, of which there are too many ways to pull off. the trash mobs are still uninteresting and have been further devalued due to the existence of extremely easy to access sneak attacks and freeze. about the only interesting enemy they added was the flux construct, which is perhaps the one boss that ACTUALLY exemplifies how you can use totk’s arm mechanics to solve a boss mechanic instead of spamming bullet time like the dungeon bosses (bar maybe the shark, you can still spam arrows at him but hydrants are less wasteful), lynels, gleeoks, hinox, talus, molduga, frox, phantom hands and who knows what else i forgot. the flux construct is just ONE enemy, i expected way more like it
The overworld and depths as well.
Literally the entire map has been touched up despite the other meme thread about trees in specific locations and the depths isn't just a pure inversion either.
More could have been done on the depths, for sure, to match the eldin area but there was absolutely a lot of shit redone all over the place. It is not a 1:1 or 1 to -1, I guess, lol.
And it wasn't just the landscape itself, everything on all 3 levels in some way interacts and has to be loaded in certain ways on such relatively weak hardware.
Throwing in fusion with over 800 possible combinations (though the system definitely also could've been done better, the arrow fusion in particular) is work to be done but things like climbing were way more acceptable in this game because there ws a lot of shit fixed in that regard from weather patterns to the very shape of the land.
The bits of sky shit that fell and merged into cliffs and stuff wasn't just random. They were actively redesigning the land to make everything more traversible without actually redoing the land itself. Soul thart people like to pretend didn't exist here, in other words.
Big brain post
Game's not perfect, but it's fun and it's a pretty damn good follow up to botw
fusion is the worst mechanic in the game. so much so theres already mods out there to remove the fuse visual on weapons.
Fricking this. I saw a mod for infinite HP and I also agree that health is a stupid anti-fun mechanic.
>They nerfed the base damage of all weapons across the board compared to BotW
>In turn they added a fuse mechanic that forces you to add a black monster dick to the end of your weapon
>It adds durability to your weapon and more damage, in many cases doubling if not tripling the total damage dealt by the weapon over it's lifetime
>In exchange it makes every weapon look ridiculous, and kills aesthetic weapon variety in the end game since every weapon is just a hilt with a silver lynel horn fused onto the end
Wtf why do people hate the fusion mechanic? I can't imagine their reasoning.
While I agree it would've been nice to have more variety you do realize nothing changes if they changed the look, right?
Either you like the gameplay or you don't. It doesn't matter what it looks like. you're one of the gays spamming SMBW threads and posted muh N64 trees about Gen 8 Pokémon when there were/are actual things to worry about aren't you?
The problem with fusion is that it's putting lipstick on a pig. All the weapon movesets are still the same. Even if there's different pointy things on the ends of your weapons now, your attacks still feel the same. Not to mention flurry rush is identical. They were super lazy.
It dramatically changes the reach of weapons
Fuse two spears some time
That's barely meaningful most of the time. And changing the reach is not changing the moveset, it's still the same animations and hitstun.
Nintendo was too lazy to even add one new weapon moveset. They didn't even try.
>Nintendo was too lazy to even add one new weapon moveset. They didn't even try.
I don't really think they needed to.
>they added recall which allows some interesting shit you can do in fights with bigger enemies.
>they added fuse which allows you to make weapons on-the-fly and try out new arrow combos.
>they added ultrahand which allows you to grab just abt anything and drop it on the enemies heads, AND more interestingly create vehicles and whatever other new contraptions you want to frick up enemies.
>they added autobuild with fricking schematics you can find around the depths that give you instant scaffolding, creative vehicles and so much other cool shit.
>they added avatars. which, admittedly the implementation could've been better.. but they're still pretty cool.
yeah, I shouldve been able to hit an enemy in a cooler way, definitely thats the problem here.
Anon they were making the game for SIX YEARS, asking them not to copypaste all of BotW's weapon animations and most of the enemies is not too much to ask.
i don’t really think you are supposed to use ultrahand for combat because a) it does so little damage compared to your weapons and b) environmental kills like water, lava and fall damage make it really annoying to collect loot
autobuild has more of a case, but it’s really only useful for novelties like an afk farm because you guessed it, weapons are still more powerful. i don’t really see why i’d build a giant flying gunship for 24 zonaite when i can jump off a steering stick and spam a billion bullet time arrows. the big problem with autobuild is that it’s virtually always better to not use it because it doesn’t really change the difficulty of the encounter in any meaningful way. bullet time is just too powerful
>i don’t really think you are supposed to use ultrahand for combat because
very fair point. starting out it was helpful to me, I remember using it to drop some wood platforms on boss bokos cuz I didn't have any decent weapons.
>autobuild has more of a case, but it’s really only useful for novelties like an afk farm because you guessed it, weapons are still more powerful.
I was mostly thinking about these being elements that aid you in battle. like (as you kinda said) flying above an enemy and then getting the drop on them, or using autobuild when in a fight with a talus or some shit. you bring up good points on the same moves being something you rely on, esp when bullet time remains to be op at times.
>I also think it's funny when people say the Depths is too big and empty when the entire place is begging you to make it much much smaller by using Zonai transportation.
this this this so much. great explanation, anon. things like the glyphs are one thing that work so well with the sky islands, or the lightroots mirroring the shrines making exploration more straightforward and takes away a lot of the guesswork you have to do when completing all the shrines.
I was able to find all 120 surface shrines by looking at lightroot locations. andbthe more you explore the Depths the more cool shit I would find on the surface and the more interesting the world felt overall. exploration in totk worked so well, and I loved having the same map from botw cuz it was modified enough to make me feel like I was in a new one altogether.
while I do agree that additional weapon types would've been nice (scythes, gaunlets, staffs)
how much did you expect fusion to change weapons
Fusion itself would be fine as a concept (execution could be a lot better), if the combat fundamentals were also built on, but they were not. All the animations are basically identical.
Fusion adds different effects but the base weapons are still the same as BotW. Fusing zonai tech also makes you hate the durability system even more because you're wasting good parts, they disappear in like 20 seconds of continuous use.
maybe like heavy objects change the moveset of swords into 3 hit or 2 hit heavy weapons that still allow you to use a shield
lizalfos tails and other string like objects change them into a flail moveset. maybe even a hookshot type with a charge attack or throw attack that can hook enemies towards you
lengthening spears further would allow you to plant it at an angle and repel charges and reflect damage back to charging foes
some bits that reinforce the spear handle would allow you to do a lance charge from a horse
maybe some objects that have wind properties could turn a 2h weapon into a more nimble, combo-based weapon that is still strong enough to knock enemies and shields away
>scythes
they're in the game. lizalfos horns iirc get you something like that. admittedly, tho, it isn't the same.
it's the same world, same artstyle and same continuity. it's not shocking that it would be very similar to the first.
ffs it's a sequel! were you seething this hard when you booted up majoras mask and realized it was the same textures/assets from ocarina of time?
i don’t like the fusion mechanic but this is not strictly true, mainly from emitters and gems. the cannon stick was pretty fun for a good while and so was the frost emitter boomerang
but after messing around, i mainly just settled on spamming bullet time on bosses and puffshroom sneak attacks on trash mobs though, so if you were to ask me about combat variety in totk, i’d have an even more withering review of it than yours
Yet people are perfectly fine gobbling up and fellating Souls games when it has the same shallow combat
Nah, BotW/TotK combat is way less shallow than Souls slop because it has 3 dimensional movement, impactful physics, stealth etc.
That is correct, but you haven’t answered why people suck up to the shallow combat of Souls games
Why would I care?
Indifference is the poor man’s answer. Have fun being poor, not that it surprises me.
>Moveset variety
Every weapon plays the same: dodge roll to i-frame and attack, same animation every time, same playstyle albeit with very minor weapon speed timing differences.
Every enemy is also the same grotesque Bloodborne-esque eldritch Lovecraftian rip-off. Or an armored medieval knight. How original.
The Souls games have way more enemy variety, moveset variety, significantly better level design, and a more consistent challenge.
In BotW/TotK most of the combat is fighting the same bokoblin camps, watching your weapons shatter, and pausing to eat 100 apples. It gets old.
You people seem to think that "depth" is about fighting enemies in an empty void with no context.
This isn't fricking DMC where the moveset quality is high enough to justify fricking around in Bloody Palace for 200 hours. These games are reliant on the quality of their content. The whole reason Demon's Souls caught on was because of the quality of its level design and enemy placement, things BotW/TotK is very poor at in the vast majority of cases.
>Block
>Backstab
>Win
Wow such quality level design and enemy placement
Also you've clearly never played Scholar of the First Sin
This post is such low quality bad faith garbage that I'm not even going to bother, have a nice day.
You're right, sorry, it's only a backstab fest in game 1 and 2, game 3 has too much infinite stamina rolling for backstabs and you don't need to bother anyway because all the enemies fold like wet paper towels the moment you look at them
>Nooooo Link didn't dab between every attack
>Game is le heckin RUINED!!!!!
Your complaint is that they didn't put enough lipstick to satisfy you that your pig is a real woman even though the lipstick doesn't magically make it not a pig.
Animations are not gameplay.
>Animations are not gameplay.
you are legit the dumbest MF on the planet
YES animations are part of the gameplay, especially when we are talking about COMBAT
play more games, jesus christ
all they had to do was make the fusion items turn into a blade, or mace, or hammer head with the material scheme of the item. why do that when you can instead be extremely lazy? monster hunter world got away with making all the weapons and armor hot garbage and it outsold the entire franchise.
thats just up to personal preference
I like the black bobo and boss bobo horns personally, the lizalfos horns aren't bad either
but frick me the silver bobo horns and silver moblin horns are as ugly as shit
It feels like they had an idea that was slightly more than DLC could handle (without fricking up the base game and making it feel bloated), but not quite enough for a full game. They likely wanted to focus on banjo-kazooie magic and temples but when asked to make a full game they just slapped on the depths and skyland and story without much thought. That's genuinely how the game felt to me when I played it. I wouldn't be surprised if Tiba was originally going to help you in the wind temple instead of Tulin. It seemed like they were just planning on all the BotW champions being your assist again but made the slight change for flair.
What a weird thing to make up. Like... why even pretend this is how it happened? Are you so consumed with this games success you make up shit in your head all day?
Because it's the modern internet. Making shit up and posting it is the easiest way to get attention and a conversation rolling. People are stupid enough to believe anything they see or hear without any evidence to back it up or proof it's real. This board is host to people who will get threads of 500-750 replies repeatedly because they posted something wrong and everyone fell for it.
I think its funny actual Zelda fans haven't gotten a good game in over a decade.
AHEM
>decent series
>late 1990s suddenly releases 1 incredible game
>sequels seem not to comprehend what made that game great
>later sequels pivot in a completely different direction to appeal to zoomers
Ocarina of Time and Final Fantasy VII are the only good games in their respective series. There hasn't been a good Zelda or Final Fantasy game this millennium.
seem not to comprehend what made that game great
what exactly made OoT great that future games don't have
The world, and consistent temples.
lmfao imagine enjoying those two in the series more than their actual good games in the series.
>I think its funny actual Zelda fans haven't gotten a good game in over a decade.
there hasn't been a good mainline zelda game in 20 years, anon.
Hyrule Warriors
Nope.
Nope.
Open world was a mistake.
Next game is gonna be even worse because they've gotten zero meaningful pushback from BotW/TotK.
>Reductionism
>Reductionism
>Reductionism
>Who cares
>Opinion
>Opinion
Good talk, Ganker
>Ganker cries about weapons not having enough damage/durability in BotW
>Nintendo adds a mechanic where your weapons scale in damage w/ the enemies you kills
>Ganker now cries about that
Cope Black person
If they removed durability you'd cry about it, if they removed weapon drops completely and went back to the pre-BotW mechanics where weapons are found in dungeons and permanent you'd cry about it
>if they removed weapon drops completely and went back to the pre-BotW mechanics where weapons are found in dungeons and permanent you'd cry about it
NTA but no??? That's exactly what I want.
You say that now but there would be a million gays in every thread complaining
It doesn't matter what Nintendo does because none of you actually play the game you just want to heckin own le popular thing with your hip new contrarian opinions
>you don't actually want a thing you say you want because... you just don't, okay?!?!?
BotW/TotK fanboys are the biggest morons on Ganker.
What you say you want changes constantly because the only thing you really want is to be a contrarian homosexual
You are making shit up to cope.
Wanting things to go back to pre-BotW, aka the vast majority of Zelda games, is not contrarian or unreasonable.
It literally is contrarian because BotW is the best selling Zelda game ever and Nintendo has made it clear this is what the series will be going forward
adds a mechanic where your weapons scale in damage w/ the enemies you kills
They already have that in the game, and it has nothing to do with fusion. Enemies don't start dropping black sticks with modifiers until you're silver tier. All enemies start carrying royal weapons by the end of the game. Even Red Hinoxes drop three royal weapons when you kill them if you've played enough.
The real kicker is that they added rocktoroks and there's something like 30 of them scattered around Eldin. Each of them will restore 1 weapon to full durability each blood moon. Durability is barely a game mechanic in this game, but you still have to make your weapons look like balloon animals if you want to deal damage. Why?
>a game that has been in development for a total of 11 years
No
There's an area north east of the fire temple where even if I have a piece of the flame guard armor I still catch on fire. What do I need to go explore there? All 3 pieces of the armor set?
You need two pieces in order to max out the fire resistence effect
Ah gotcha thanks Anon.
>the amount of time the game wasnt out is the total amount of time it was in development for.
if i draw zeldas anus and then wait 6 months to do it again and its only slightly better that doesnt mean i spent 6 months figuring out how to improve her ass cheeks. Nintendo were not making an entirely new game, its a sequel set in the same world.
i wish there was a place to discuss videogames because Ganker is not smart enough to talk about the qualities and shortcomings of something without being sensationalist in all forms.
>everything is shit apart from what i played when i was 9. EVERYTHING. NOTHING IS GOOD AT ALL
then the time you wasted wasn’t justified in the slightest. your customers literally paid your devs and artists to sit on their asses/ do pointless work
you paid for a single product and then the next one. customers dont pay devs and artist a stipend or invest in the development of a game series. This is the most backwards statement ive ever seen in my life but operating under it does explain why people feel so betrayed.
customers dont pay devs. theres no caveat or mental gymnastics you can pull to say "but gamesales fund the next project!". your money is not given on the promise of more and greater goods. you pay for what is presented and they decide to embark on a new project. you fundamentally have warped, in your own mind how purchasing interactive artistic works is done.
this doesn’t really change the criticism. at the end of the day, the contention is the competency of the devs and the quality of the product. you can find it ridiculous that people feel betrayed when a company they bought a successful product from made a poor product next, but it doesn’t change the fact that they made a poor product despite the resources and odds being stacked in their favor
The praise for this game is so forced, just like the new Ultra hand mechanic. I can barely even motivate myself to finish it and I know I'm not the only one
It's a sequel. The game world may be more or less the same, but the game's design is distinct from BOTK and that makes the player have a completely different relationship to that world. The problem is, that relationship is much less fun than BOTKs.
the game design isn’t distinct from botw. it’s the same with some minor tweaks
BOTW
>Hey there's a shrine on that mountain, let me strategically climb up to conserve my stamina
TOTK
>Hey there's a shrine on that mountain, let me build a flying machine or all terrain vehicle or warp to the sky and fly down or find a cave and warp to the top
Not a minor tweak. Fundamentally different relationship with traversing the world, which is what an open world game is all about.
flying is a terrible mechanic for any exploration game. the fact that you are allowed to do it at all is a regression of the formula. i remember the exact same thing happening in xenoblade x, when i was blown away when i unlocked the flying mechanic for skells, then after the honeymoon period wore off, i realise that flying just made the entire map a series of featureless air corridoors and destroyed all the work done to craft it
here is the better argument: totk uses the same map so exploration is no longer a valid gameplay mechanic. this is a point i will concede but then it also tells me than totk is already shallower than botw for it
there's another layer to totk and it's how it uses its points of interest to aid and incentivize exploration across its elevation layers. find a way up to a sky island and you can see a dozen points of interest. do some surface shrines and they show where light roots are in the depths. explore the depths and you'll run into light roots you weren't aware of and correspond to the more hidden shrines on the surface. etc, etc. it's really smart game design.
You definitely caught on. It's no longer about obfuscating points of interest to pace discover with just mountainous triangles anymore. There are low profile POI such as chasms that easily hide behind terrain but when in the sky islands they are clear as day. From the surface you can see every sky island but they way too some of them is not so obvious with the primary form of early game flight(wings) being ephemeral. Island to island traversal is also a one way trip to the surface should you mess up your stamina/battery management. In the Depths, the obfuscation -> exploration dynamic is almost the same as the sky oddly enough, in that your next point of interest is floating and clearly visible from all direction(usually). It's an inverse of the surface, the POI is always visible instead of the mountainous triangle terrain and now the harsher underground terrain is the thing being hidden. I also think it's funny when people say the Depths is too big and empty when the entire place is begging you to make it much much smaller by using Zonai transportation. Even if TotK has its flaws I hope people can appreciate (no anti-semitism intended) the dev's dedication to evolving their already good obfuscation/exploration paradigm.
tl;dr
it’s not really possible to mess up battery management because of recall
everything you said is made irrelevant by a hoverbike and spamming recall even your battery runs out. this is why said they shouldn’t have allowed you to fly so freely and recall is a fundamentally broken ability
>the hoverbike makes traversal trivial
Yes. If you've discovered it on your own, then you'll use it all the time and feel like you've won by making the best zonai vehicle and you'll be happy with it because the underground gets very tiring after 60 lightroots. But you didn't discover it yourself, you saw someone here or on LEDDIT make it and because of that it's bad and cringe.
You should've stayed off the internet while you finished the game
>Hey there's a shrine on that mountain, let me strategically climb up to conserve my stamina
This is only true for like the first time because after that you have enough stamina leveled up to dominate a climb and you learn how to cook. BOTW allows a lot of cheating as well.
Climbing is a shitty function.
i’d argue flying is worse because it converts all the terrain, slopes, cliffs, etc. into 1 flat void where you go straight from point a to point b. i still remember doing the tulin island hopping the legit way and then on my second playthrough i just skipped the entire thing with the hoverbike and recall
the player shouldn’t be able to fly so freely. i think zonai fans were a huge mistake, like wings, rockets and balloons are ok since they are very limited, but fans just invalidate exploration and traversal too much
imagine if you had to plan balloon and wing usage over a trek through the depths, taking advantage of the zonai device supply depots along the way instead of just flying over and ignoring everything in a straight line with fans. the fire temple also had carts completely invalidated by fans
totk kind of does feel like a game that has been in development for over a decade. It's a fricking special game that is really fun and addictive to play while still having soul. I'd never played 3d zelda before totk and I finally did and was blown away. It's really good and I'm surprised how good it is
I'm playing BotW right now and I'm really not enjoying it that much. I loved Wind Waker, Twilight Princess, ALttP, Zelda 1 and 2, sort of enjoyed Minish Cap (didn't beat it though), couldn't get into Spirit Tracks (partly due to an emulation problem though), and I'm just finding BotW to be really disconnected and sterile.
Maybe it's my nostalgia but in a lot of ways it feels very clumsy? I get taken out of the feeling of a Zelda game all the time.
Also the music seems to be really really bad, and for some reason the old music isn't really even there to at least prop up the lack of new music.
I'm kind of tempted to just skip BotW and start playing ToTK. Am I going to miss out on anything that matters?
TotK is legitimately just BotW but with more stuff. But I don't know if you will actually enjoy it more or not. The design philosophy is still basically the same.
Play Link's Awakening (original), Ocarina of Time, Oracle of Seasons/Ages, and A Link Between Worlds.
Yes
apologize
They sucked
mmmm sex with zelda
People really make the worst most unconvincing posts possible and expect you to respond to them.
No, it feels like a game that developed in a year by reusing botw.
Which one are we talking about? They’re the same game.