>obvious shill campaign game made to capitalize on FOMO and be a hot topic of discussion for its release window >fake gameplay designed to fool normies who never actually played the classics into thinking they're having nostalgia for times they didn't even have >fake indie game with made by devs LARPing as a small team, but in reality had a budget that would make AA dev outfits blush and immense financial backing from Kowloon Knights
Anyone with a functioning brain cell in their head knew it was garbage long, long before it ever released.
>timed hits (provides fake engagement by gating basic gameplay function behind tacked-on button presses) >break/stagger or similar gameplay system (provides fake engagement by forcing the player to play exactly the one way the devs wanted them to for each encounter rather than experimenting with the game's systems (that would be REAL engagement))
Correct, because it's fake gameplay. It's dishonest. It's designed to give micro dopamine hits to morons with little/no effort on their part and keep them playing by drip feeding this "experience" to them.
A real game that isn't afraid to challenge the player and forces them to rely on their own wits rather than presenting a line of breadcrumbs to each solution is more satisfying to play, and keeps players coming back for more on a different set of merits entirely - those of good gameplay.
>fake gameplay
Ok, but why is it FAKE gameplay you fricking dunce. Shit doesn't equal fake you fricking moron.
I don't drop a big smelly Not-Real into my toilet every morning.
God damn, you're making a valid argument but you're relying on the dumbest fricking buzzwords. Stop being a stupid wienersucking moronic c**t and have more faith in the inherent validity of your argument you soft-spined frickwit.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>God damn, you're making a valid argument but you're relying on the dumbest fricking buzzwords
If it makes you mad, that's all the more reason to use stupid buzzwords.
hits (provides fake engagement by gating basic gameplay function behind tacked-on button presses)
moronic take. If you're suggesting Shadow Hearts has bad combat because of timed hits, you're disqualified from having any valid opinion on turn based combat design.
Shadow Hearts does a lot with its ring system by having different abilities and items affect it with penty of risk/reward. Here its just tap the right button at the right time to get the regular amount of damage.
VP has inputs, but not timed hits. Purify Weird Soul doesn't count either. It works better because it's more about stringing combos together but that anon is talking about Mario RPG press a right before the attack lands shit
>timed hits (provides fake engagement by gating basic gameplay function behind tacked-on button presses) >break/stagger or similar gameplay system (provides fake engagement by forcing the player to play exactly the one way the devs wanted them to for each encounter rather than experimenting with the game's systems (that would be REAL engagement))
>timed hits (provides fake engagement by gating basic gameplay function behind tacked-on button presses)
Been saying this for years, glad to see people finally are understanding
>Been saying this for years, glad to see people finally are understanding
Except it's wrong, as
>When's a game going to give this gimmick more depth and basically require mastering it to win fights?
Shadow Hearts 2 did that ages ago.
Has lots of depth, various ways to customize it, etc.
said.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Never played Shadow Hearts, is it really that good? I still think timed hits are pure bullshit but I'll make an exception for this game since it looks cool
5 months ago
Anonymous
Just try it out. If the first 5 minutes don't hook you in, that's on you.
hits (provides fake engagement by gating basic gameplay function behind tacked-on button presses)
When's a game going to give this gimmick more depth and basically require mastering it to win fights?
>timed hits
it's just quick time events and quick time events are fricking gay
I wonder how people balance this
what if some kid is too moronic to ever hit the buttons right
or what if someone just outright refuses to participate in this nonsense and always do the minimum damage
I would just be lazy and optimize around letting the bar run out if it's an RPG
or what if someone is just good and always hits the spot
will this make the game shite
>I wonder how people balance this
You have to remember that people, in essence, sign up for the games they play. We do not just drop people into a pit and then force them at gunpoint to engage in gameplay mechanics that they do not enjoy.
>what if some kid is too moronic to ever hit the buttons right
They probably wouldn't choose to buy the game in the first place.
>or what if someone just outright refuses to participate in this nonsense and always do the minimum damage
They most likely wouldn't buy the game in the first place.
>I would just be lazy and optimize around letting the bar run out if it's an RPG
Then you're not the target demographic.
>or what if someone is just good and always hits the spot >will this make the game shite
What they do is they have a QA team go through the game with a fine-toothed comb. If too many players can't hit the timing right, they make it easier to hit the timing either by extending the bar or "cheating" slight, but still technical, misses into counting as "hits."
Assuming the timing is "fair," and most people can succeed at hitting the hits, they then influence just how much HP pool the bosses have so that it's worthwhile to hit the hits, but the fight isn't over so quickly that the sense of drama of what it is you're supposed to be fighting fizzles out too quickly.
As a last touch, usually, they have a wide variety of consumable items that will beat the absolute shit out of any sort of difficulty curve for the player if they just want to muddle through. Here, have a megalixer that gets you back up to full. Here have all these healing items that are basically for free because they drop all the time and there are plenty in chests.
Thank you anon timed hits are the gayest mechanic on earth. I wouldn't mind them so much if they weren't treated as a magic "improve game" button that should be tacked onto every RPG.I even like Mario RPGs okay. But somehow Tendies have poisoned the well of every video game discussion space.
Every time a new indie RPG comes out, and developers say how it was inspired by older JRPGs - especially Chrono Trigger - AVOID IT. It has absolutely nothing in common with them.
Indie RPGs, especially ones trying to replicate old classic games, always end up subpar. Especially when it comes to things like writing.
The only thing they tend to do well with are visuals and sometimes music. Writing and design is something amataurs suck donkey dicks at because they neither have experience or proper knowledge.
It was discussed to death. You had people who never played the game shitting on it for no reason (i.e., troonyspammers), and you had people who did play the game shitting on it for legitimate reasons (low skills, no sense of power progression, poor writing, etc.)
I'm tired of people making works with hollow understanding of what its paying tribute too.
The issue is that they're not actually paying tribute to them.
They're using it as a marketing tool and nothing more.
It was never about showing respect for the classics. It was always about gaining false clout and trying to be relatable to people by selling them the idea that "yeah, we were there, we know what those games were like." When the reality is, none of them were there, none of them ever even bothered to fire up an emulator and play the games they claim to hold in high regard.
The "paying tribute to" part is just wrong. How exactly is it paying tribute? Be specfic, since you seem to think you're the only one here that understands it.
But all of them have the exact same "four homies in a row, fighting in a separate reality" menu-based, turn-based combat. And they still do. So how are they "classic?"
It was hyped because of The Messenger, moron. Nothing "fake" about the gameplay. It's just an extremely crappy Chrono Trigger combat system with static encounters that play out the same constantly. It's a 4/10 at best.
>It's just an extremely crappy Chrono Trigger combat
More like CT combat is boring(and their spiritual successor made It even worse) as frick and people play it for the characters being fun and time travel gimmick
Every time a new indie RPG comes out, and developers say how it was inspired by older JRPGs - especially Chrono Trigger - AVOID IT. It has absolutely nothing in common with them.
Indie RPGs, especially ones trying to replicate old classic games, always end up subpar. Especially when it comes to things like writing.
The only thing they tend to do well with are visuals and sometimes music. Writing and design is something amataurs suck donkey dicks at because they neither have experience or proper knowledge.
>Indie games far surpass writing.
Totally, as OPs game clearly shows. Let alone all these RPG maker games, Cosmic Star Heroine or all the tons of other bargain bin indie RPGs with god awful writing.
The "writers" for these games are fanfic writers with absolutely 0 training or experience.
Whatever examples that don't fall into the garbage bin you can come up with are a handful at best and span the entire indie dev history, which says it all.
If you're an indie RPG dev and you don't have competent writers on your team, then don't make it dialogue or story heavy. Period.
One of the issues is that Sea of Stars is an indie game in name only. The game had so much financial backing from angel investors and Patreon morons alike that there was little to no excuse for the writing to be dogwater, let alone rife with grammar mistakes. It's as if the game was written by ESLs, or at least translated from French to English and never checked by any editors afterwards.
And, if the non-English speaking RPG Maker communities (particularly Spanish and French) are anything to go on, they're already dogshit writers by default. Worse than the average edgy fanfic-tier English natives.
Man it's like you're not even trying to have a conversation its just your monologue
5 months ago
Anonymous
You're lucky I dignified your reddit-spacing ass with a (You) to begin with.
5 months ago
Anonymous
NTA, and I have to ask. Are you one of the devs? Yes or no. >inb4 great fanfiction, moron
Ganker is too small and insignificant to be a place where you shill your games, but that didn't stop that Matthias or whatever the frick he's called. Dev of Cucked Echoes.
5 months ago
Anonymous
I'm not defending sea of stars whatsoever and I don't even know what it is
5 months ago
Anonymous
Then why are you even here, Black person? To "I HAVE AN OPINION"?
5 months ago
Anonymous
It's either the dev feeling insecure about their talent being lesser when compared to the masters they're inspired by or some autist being pedantic. I don't get why anyone would defend this mediocre nostalgia bait unless it's the former, considering [...] is one of their responses.
Im literally just saying that you need to have a fair comparison if you're going to make a big judgement about all indie games vs all retro games
Are you the type to go "B-But it's for kids!" when criticizing shit children's films? How about "Don't like it, don't buy it!"?
No. If I said western movies are better than eastern ones and compared citizen kane to something thats critically reviled in the east, would that be fair?
>This is such a roundabout way to defend your cherry picking and you still failed to address anything I said.
Can you carefully explain how exactly not picking anything is cherrypicking.
Then carefully explain, in detail, how you selectively picking that indie game writing should only be compared to other indie game writing, is NOT cherrypicking.
Or don't, because you're clearly close-minded and delusional and want to die on your cherrypicked hill.
>You're just being stubborn
No, I'm being fair and objective.
Writing is not like graphics. To make a game as pretty as God of War Ragnarok, you need a lot of money and people working on it.
To write dialogue, you only need 1 person. A writer.
Yet for some reason you're claiming that ALL writers for indie games can NEVER be compared to writer for an expensive game or movie. For no reason at all.
You're outright saying we should NOT look at the quality of the writing itself.
Also, I'm repeating myself, but the reason why most indie RPG writers are so dogshit is because >they lack proper education, knowledge and training >a lot of them overestimate how good they are, often some programmer thinks they're also brilliant writers, so also decide to write the game, despite having very little experience and know-how >they lack the drive to improve. they'd rather play games and shitpost on Ganker for hours than even spend 1-2 hours every day improving themselves as writers >they mistake playing a game is enough to make/write one, which is the equivalent of thinking that because you eat a lot at restaurants means you'd make a good chef
and similar reasons.
Need I remind you that a game like Disco Elysium was primarily made by 2 people. You're making excuses for games like OP for their writing, where there are no valid excuses to make.
> you're claiming that ALL writers for indie games can NEVER be compared to writer for an expensive game or movie.
nope. never ever claimed this. >You're outright saying we should NOT look at the quality of the writing itself.
im arguing the opposite >you're making excuses for games like OP
nope. I dont care about that game at all and have never heard of it. >DE was made by 2 people
Yeah its a great game and is proof that indie games are not as bad as you think they are.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>B-But--!!
Go argue where it matters because you're derailing a topic you've no stakes into autistically b***hing about equality. Reminder that the topic's about writing quality and not dev budgets.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>Im literally just saying that you need to have a fair comparison
That's not what I asked. You must have ADHD or something if you just go into every thread about a topic you're not familiar with.
Because you should compare good games to good games if you're trying to make some grand statement about development. He says indie game rpgs.all have shit writing but won't bring up one with relatively good writing to make a real compaison.
You're lucky I dignified your reddit-spacing ass with a (You) to begin with.
Because bad writing is bad writing.
The "fair" thing to do is not to coddle them like some 2 year old drawing their first shitty drawing and saying "That looks really good!".
>bad writing being bad is not relevant >instead what supposedly is relevant is that indie writing is okay to be garbage, because it's indie
Brilliant logic here, clown.
5 months ago
Anonymous
You're literally defending cherry picking though
My whole argument is you should compare like for like.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>You're literally defending cherry picking though
How in the frick is judging all writing on the same level as "cherrypicking". It's the antonym of cherrypicking.
>My whole argument is you should compare like for like.
Which IS cherrypicking. You don't want equal treatment, you want to cherrypick certain games to make one seem better than it is.
Do any mental gymnastics you like, but you're the only one doing cherrypicking here.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Im not cherry picking at all. Do you think it would be fair to judge western vs eastern films by taking conventional master pieces like citizen kane and pairing them up against student films? is that a fair comparison to you?
5 months ago
Anonymous
>Im not cherry picking at all
Uh huh, So saying that [insert game] can only be compared to [insert limited selection of other games] is not cherrypicking. But me saying it should all be compared equally is somehow cherrypicking. Sure.
>is that a fair comparison to you?
Shit writing is shit writing, idiot. You can have 500 million dollar movie have dogshit writing, but a small indie movie have much better writing. The "fair" thing to do is to compare the writing equally. Otherwise you're giving preferential treatment to a specific group just to try and pretend they're better than they actually are.
What you're suggesting is the most offensive thing you can do to a creator.
5 months ago
Anonymous
This is such a roundabout way to defend your cherry picking and you still failed to address anything I said.
If you're making statements like >indie games worse than old game
You need to compare equivalent games from both otherwise there's zero meaning or significance.
I can also make the reverse point by comparing the best indie game to the shittiest possible 90s Japan only broken mess
You're just being stubborn
5 months ago
Anonymous
Are you the type to go "B-But it's for kids!" when criticizing shit children's films? How about "Don't like it, don't buy it!"?
5 months ago
Anonymous
>This is such a roundabout way to defend your cherry picking and you still failed to address anything I said.
Can you carefully explain how exactly not picking anything is cherrypicking.
Then carefully explain, in detail, how you selectively picking that indie game writing should only be compared to other indie game writing, is NOT cherrypicking.
Or don't, because you're clearly close-minded and delusional and want to die on your cherrypicked hill.
>You're just being stubborn
No, I'm being fair and objective.
Writing is not like graphics. To make a game as pretty as God of War Ragnarok, you need a lot of money and people working on it.
To write dialogue, you only need 1 person. A writer.
Yet for some reason you're claiming that ALL writers for indie games can NEVER be compared to writer for an expensive game or movie. For no reason at all.
You're outright saying we should NOT look at the quality of the writing itself.
Also, I'm repeating myself, but the reason why most indie RPG writers are so dogshit is because >they lack proper education, knowledge and training >a lot of them overestimate how good they are, often some programmer thinks they're also brilliant writers, so also decide to write the game, despite having very little experience and know-how >they lack the drive to improve. they'd rather play games and shitpost on Ganker for hours than even spend 1-2 hours every day improving themselves as writers >they mistake playing a game is enough to make/write one, which is the equivalent of thinking that because you eat a lot at restaurants means you'd make a good chef
and similar reasons.
Need I remind you that a game like Disco Elysium was primarily made by 2 people. You're making excuses for games like OP for their writing, where there are no valid excuses to make.
5 months ago
Anonymous
It's either the dev feeling insecure about their talent being lesser when compared to the masters they're inspired by or some autist being pedantic. I don't get why anyone would defend this mediocre nostalgia bait unless it's the former, considering
I'm not defending sea of stars whatsoever and I don't even know what it is
is one of their responses.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Likely an underaged.
The immediate, broad extremes response of misunderstanding the topic is emblematic of what underaged commonly do online, especially on Twitter.
Because there's not a single original idea in it. Same problem with almost all RPG games - fans just cherry pick elements from their favorites games and mesh them together. None of those will make your own game stand out. Sea of Stars had everyone jerking off to its visuals, but even in that department it's just sterile nostalgia.
Literally the only good part is the visuals, forget about being an RPG or not, its not a good G and should be forgotten. This thread shouldn't even exist.
Listen man. I dont care about any of that.
I will literally open multiple tabs of threads about a games I don't know or care about just to derail them into different topics. I'm 30 and this is where my life as lead me, it's pathetic, trust me, I know, but you're cherrypicking is just as bad and not a fair comparison to what's being discussing.
This game looks like the unoriginal first draft of some milennial ideas guy who has never interacted with any media except JRPGs, and then only the most basic b***h ones
It was discussed to death. You had people who never played the game shitting on it for no reason (i.e., troonyspammers), and you had people who did play the game shitting on it for legitimate reasons (low skills, no sense of power progression, poor writing, etc.)
All these nostalgia games honestly leave me with a bit of a depressing thought and question. I'm not really sure how to phrase it without sounding weird either but I'll just ask it outright anyways. Where is all the new nostalgia? I knew that would be a weird sentence but I think it's pretty clear what I mean. So many games, movies and other media are built around nostalgia for old brands and memories that nothing new seems to get made that gives the current generation the same feeling of nostalgia we had. Maybe it's just too early to tell but I kind of already feel like even newer installments of ongoing franchises are being forgotten faster and faster.
I get what you mean bro.
The video game industry is completely creatively bankrupt, everything is paint-by-numbers nowadays, the pursuit of profir is so prioritized nowadays that companies see nothing wrong with releasing an unfinished product and slapdashingly patching it later.
Every company's business strategy seems to be to hype up a game with marketing, sell as many copies as possible during the first weeks after release then forget about it months later.
Everything is so disposable nowadays, made carelessly and thoughtlessly because it's not made to last.
I liked it, I dislike turn based games because it feels like I'm just interacting with a menu most of the time but all the timed hit and mini game style attacks, plus the lock system did enough to make me feel like I was actually doing something.
I like its combat more than Chrono Trigger, though the story is pretty shit.
It was probably forgotten quickly because of the time frame, it's not a game you read about in Nintendo power or whatever in the 90s when you're a kid. It's a solid 7/10 for me.
Yeah the bing wahoo is fun but I do have to think because of how the locks work. It's like you don't play games and just shitpost on Ganker all day instead you jaded soulless frick.
>It's like you don't play games and just shitpost on Ganker all day instead you jaded soulless frick
If you have a life outside, then why are you here? NTA, just curious.
It's fake thinking. Not real strategizing.
Lock/Break/Stagger/Topple and any other similar systems are trash on a fundamental level because they eliminate the actual player thought component from the game and replace it with extremely guided/railroaded thought to simulate you coming up with a strategy on your own.
There's a world of difference between railroaded slop like this and even the simplest type matchup weakness/resistance system that demands even a shred of thought from the player to evaluate foes and situations with their own eyes.
I'm sorry, but you are terminally moronic. There isn't even a reason to unpack all that garbage you just vomited out since it is clear already that you are not arguing in good faith.
I'm surprised to know this game got so much criticism considering that 1. Its turn-based and 2. 2023 was the year many turn based rpgs did well such a BG3.
If the Netflix tier cast, and this autistic abortion of an attempt at an anime styled cover art didn't tip you off that this was going to be trash you're ngmi.
I picked it up because it was "free" on PSN and "anons" said it was like Chrono Trigger, then quickly deleted when I saw it was cuck fetish NTR slop. Nothing at all like CT, just more flavor of the month viral marketing slop
because its shit
>obvious shill campaign game made to capitalize on FOMO and be a hot topic of discussion for its release window
>fake gameplay designed to fool normies who never actually played the classics into thinking they're having nostalgia for times they didn't even have
>fake indie game with made by devs LARPing as a small team, but in reality had a budget that would make AA dev outfits blush and immense financial backing from Kowloon Knights
Anyone with a functioning brain cell in their head knew it was garbage long, long before it ever released.
define "fake gameplay"
>timed hits (provides fake engagement by gating basic gameplay function behind tacked-on button presses)
>break/stagger or similar gameplay system (provides fake engagement by forcing the player to play exactly the one way the devs wanted them to for each encounter rather than experimenting with the game's systems (that would be REAL engagement))
this sounds more like gameplay you don't prefer
Correct, because it's fake gameplay. It's dishonest. It's designed to give micro dopamine hits to morons with little/no effort on their part and keep them playing by drip feeding this "experience" to them.
A real game that isn't afraid to challenge the player and forces them to rely on their own wits rather than presenting a line of breadcrumbs to each solution is more satisfying to play, and keeps players coming back for more on a different set of merits entirely - those of good gameplay.
that's fine, but call it "bad gameplay", as it's still actually gameplay
I don't understand. You want every jrpg to play the exact same? The Mario games had great game play
>fake gameplay
Ok, but why is it FAKE gameplay you fricking dunce. Shit doesn't equal fake you fricking moron.
I don't drop a big smelly Not-Real into my toilet every morning.
God damn, you're making a valid argument but you're relying on the dumbest fricking buzzwords. Stop being a stupid wienersucking moronic c**t and have more faith in the inherent validity of your argument you soft-spined frickwit.
>God damn, you're making a valid argument but you're relying on the dumbest fricking buzzwords
If it makes you mad, that's all the more reason to use stupid buzzwords.
I could tell it was ntr cuck shit just from the art style
Well said
hits (provides fake engagement by gating basic gameplay function behind tacked-on button presses)
moronic take. If you're suggesting Shadow Hearts has bad combat because of timed hits, you're disqualified from having any valid opinion on turn based combat design.
Shadow Hearts does a lot with its ring system by having different abilities and items affect it with penty of risk/reward. Here its just tap the right button at the right time to get the regular amount of damage.
So basically you're just proving OP's point that the combat is crappy due to bad balancing/encounter design? Because you're right.
Yup, I'm agreeing. Just didn't want ol' Shadow Hearts being dragged into this
I guess you hated VP back in the day. Shame, it was a great one.
VP has inputs, but not timed hits. Purify Weird Soul doesn't count either. It works better because it's more about stringing combos together but that anon is talking about Mario RPG press a right before the attack lands shit
>timed hits (provides fake engagement by gating basic gameplay function behind tacked-on button presses)
Been saying this for years, glad to see people finally are understanding
>Been saying this for years, glad to see people finally are understanding
Except it's wrong, as
said.
Never played Shadow Hearts, is it really that good? I still think timed hits are pure bullshit but I'll make an exception for this game since it looks cool
Just try it out. If the first 5 minutes don't hook you in, that's on you.
You were playing VP wrong then because weapons and moves were supposed to be chained together to max combos for the loot
Not what Timed Hits are
hits (provides fake engagement by gating basic gameplay function behind tacked-on button presses)
When's a game going to give this gimmick more depth and basically require mastering it to win fights?
Lots of games already do. They're called, "not RPGs."
>When's a game going to give this gimmick more depth and basically require mastering it to win fights?
Shadow Hearts 2 did that ages ago.
Has lots of depth, various ways to customize it, etc.
Timed hits in turn based games are based you're a moron
No they are, the best turn based games don't rely on them
>timed hits
it's just quick time events and quick time events are fricking gay
I wonder how people balance this
what if some kid is too moronic to ever hit the buttons right
or what if someone just outright refuses to participate in this nonsense and always do the minimum damage
I would just be lazy and optimize around letting the bar run out if it's an RPG
or what if someone is just good and always hits the spot
will this make the game shite
>I wonder how people balance this
You have to remember that people, in essence, sign up for the games they play. We do not just drop people into a pit and then force them at gunpoint to engage in gameplay mechanics that they do not enjoy.
>what if some kid is too moronic to ever hit the buttons right
They probably wouldn't choose to buy the game in the first place.
>or what if someone just outright refuses to participate in this nonsense and always do the minimum damage
They most likely wouldn't buy the game in the first place.
>I would just be lazy and optimize around letting the bar run out if it's an RPG
Then you're not the target demographic.
>or what if someone is just good and always hits the spot
>will this make the game shite
What they do is they have a QA team go through the game with a fine-toothed comb. If too many players can't hit the timing right, they make it easier to hit the timing either by extending the bar or "cheating" slight, but still technical, misses into counting as "hits."
Assuming the timing is "fair," and most people can succeed at hitting the hits, they then influence just how much HP pool the bosses have so that it's worthwhile to hit the hits, but the fight isn't over so quickly that the sense of drama of what it is you're supposed to be fighting fizzles out too quickly.
As a last touch, usually, they have a wide variety of consumable items that will beat the absolute shit out of any sort of difficulty curve for the player if they just want to muddle through. Here, have a megalixer that gets you back up to full. Here have all these healing items that are basically for free because they drop all the time and there are plenty in chests.
Thank you anon timed hits are the gayest mechanic on earth. I wouldn't mind them so much if they weren't treated as a magic "improve game" button that should be tacked onto every RPG.I even like Mario RPGs okay. But somehow Tendies have poisoned the well of every video game discussion space.
You're a moron.
You forgot to mention the worst part of the game: a hilariously bad written story that seemed to be made using AI.
I'm tired of people making works with hollow understanding of what its paying tribute too.
The issue is that they're not actually paying tribute to them.
They're using it as a marketing tool and nothing more.
It was never about showing respect for the classics. It was always about gaining false clout and trying to be relatable to people by selling them the idea that "yeah, we were there, we know what those games were like." When the reality is, none of them were there, none of them ever even bothered to fire up an emulator and play the games they claim to hold in high regard.
The "paying tribute to" part is just wrong. How exactly is it paying tribute? Be specfic, since you seem to think you're the only one here that understands it.
>Quirky
Immediate loss of interest
FOMO shill campaigns never fail, though, ever
>the classics
But all of them have the exact same "four homies in a row, fighting in a separate reality" menu-based, turn-based combat. And they still do. So how are they "classic?"
What do you think "classic" means?
It was hyped because of The Messenger, moron. Nothing "fake" about the gameplay. It's just an extremely crappy Chrono Trigger combat system with static encounters that play out the same constantly. It's a 4/10 at best.
>It's just an extremely crappy Chrono Trigger combat
More like CT combat is boring(and their spiritual successor made It even worse) as frick and people play it for the characters being fun and time travel gimmick
Remember one thing, anons.
Every time a new indie RPG comes out, and developers say how it was inspired by older JRPGs - especially Chrono Trigger - AVOID IT. It has absolutely nothing in common with them.
Indie RPGs, especially ones trying to replicate old classic games, always end up subpar. Especially when it comes to things like writing.
The only thing they tend to do well with are visuals and sometimes music. Writing and design is something amataurs suck donkey dicks at because they neither have experience or proper knowledge.
Bullshit. Indie games far surpass writing.
>Indie games far surpass writing.
Totally, as OPs game clearly shows. Let alone all these RPG maker games, Cosmic Star Heroine or all the tons of other bargain bin indie RPGs with god awful writing.
The "writers" for these games are fanfic writers with absolutely 0 training or experience.
Whatever examples that don't fall into the garbage bin you can come up with are a handful at best and span the entire indie dev history, which says it all.
If you're an indie RPG dev and you don't have competent writers on your team, then don't make it dialogue or story heavy. Period.
Why is it fair to compare the best retro big budget jrpgs to the worse cheapest lowest quality rpgmaker indie games?
One of the issues is that Sea of Stars is an indie game in name only. The game had so much financial backing from angel investors and Patreon morons alike that there was little to no excuse for the writing to be dogwater, let alone rife with grammar mistakes. It's as if the game was written by ESLs, or at least translated from French to English and never checked by any editors afterwards.
And, if the non-English speaking RPG Maker communities (particularly Spanish and French) are anything to go on, they're already dogshit writers by default. Worse than the average edgy fanfic-tier English natives.
Man it's like you're not even trying to have a conversation its just your monologue
You're lucky I dignified your reddit-spacing ass with a (You) to begin with.
NTA, and I have to ask. Are you one of the devs? Yes or no.
>inb4 great fanfiction, moron
Ganker is too small and insignificant to be a place where you shill your games, but that didn't stop that Matthias or whatever the frick he's called. Dev of Cucked Echoes.
I'm not defending sea of stars whatsoever and I don't even know what it is
Then why are you even here, Black person? To "I HAVE AN OPINION"?
Im literally just saying that you need to have a fair comparison if you're going to make a big judgement about all indie games vs all retro games
No. If I said western movies are better than eastern ones and compared citizen kane to something thats critically reviled in the east, would that be fair?
> you're claiming that ALL writers for indie games can NEVER be compared to writer for an expensive game or movie.
nope. never ever claimed this.
>You're outright saying we should NOT look at the quality of the writing itself.
im arguing the opposite
>you're making excuses for games like OP
nope. I dont care about that game at all and have never heard of it.
>DE was made by 2 people
Yeah its a great game and is proof that indie games are not as bad as you think they are.
>B-But--!!
Go argue where it matters because you're derailing a topic you've no stakes into autistically b***hing about equality. Reminder that the topic's about writing quality and not dev budgets.
>Im literally just saying that you need to have a fair comparison
That's not what I asked. You must have ADHD or something if you just go into every thread about a topic you're not familiar with.
Why not? Only objective advantage those big budget JRPGs have is the production budget. Which won't save shitty writing.
Because you should compare good games to good games if you're trying to make some grand statement about development. He says indie game rpgs.all have shit writing but won't bring up one with relatively good writing to make a real compaison.
Ok
Because bad writing is bad writing.
The "fair" thing to do is not to coddle them like some 2 year old drawing their first shitty drawing and saying "That looks really good!".
Thats not relevant at all
>bad writing being bad is not relevant
>instead what supposedly is relevant is that indie writing is okay to be garbage, because it's indie
Brilliant logic here, clown.
You're literally defending cherry picking though
My whole argument is you should compare like for like.
>You're literally defending cherry picking though
How in the frick is judging all writing on the same level as "cherrypicking". It's the antonym of cherrypicking.
>My whole argument is you should compare like for like.
Which IS cherrypicking. You don't want equal treatment, you want to cherrypick certain games to make one seem better than it is.
Do any mental gymnastics you like, but you're the only one doing cherrypicking here.
Im not cherry picking at all. Do you think it would be fair to judge western vs eastern films by taking conventional master pieces like citizen kane and pairing them up against student films? is that a fair comparison to you?
>Im not cherry picking at all
Uh huh, So saying that [insert game] can only be compared to [insert limited selection of other games] is not cherrypicking. But me saying it should all be compared equally is somehow cherrypicking. Sure.
>is that a fair comparison to you?
Shit writing is shit writing, idiot. You can have 500 million dollar movie have dogshit writing, but a small indie movie have much better writing. The "fair" thing to do is to compare the writing equally. Otherwise you're giving preferential treatment to a specific group just to try and pretend they're better than they actually are.
What you're suggesting is the most offensive thing you can do to a creator.
This is such a roundabout way to defend your cherry picking and you still failed to address anything I said.
If you're making statements like
>indie games worse than old game
You need to compare equivalent games from both otherwise there's zero meaning or significance.
I can also make the reverse point by comparing the best indie game to the shittiest possible 90s Japan only broken mess
You're just being stubborn
Are you the type to go "B-But it's for kids!" when criticizing shit children's films? How about "Don't like it, don't buy it!"?
>This is such a roundabout way to defend your cherry picking and you still failed to address anything I said.
Can you carefully explain how exactly not picking anything is cherrypicking.
Then carefully explain, in detail, how you selectively picking that indie game writing should only be compared to other indie game writing, is NOT cherrypicking.
Or don't, because you're clearly close-minded and delusional and want to die on your cherrypicked hill.
>You're just being stubborn
No, I'm being fair and objective.
Writing is not like graphics. To make a game as pretty as God of War Ragnarok, you need a lot of money and people working on it.
To write dialogue, you only need 1 person. A writer.
Yet for some reason you're claiming that ALL writers for indie games can NEVER be compared to writer for an expensive game or movie. For no reason at all.
You're outright saying we should NOT look at the quality of the writing itself.
Also, I'm repeating myself, but the reason why most indie RPG writers are so dogshit is because
>they lack proper education, knowledge and training
>a lot of them overestimate how good they are, often some programmer thinks they're also brilliant writers, so also decide to write the game, despite having very little experience and know-how
>they lack the drive to improve. they'd rather play games and shitpost on Ganker for hours than even spend 1-2 hours every day improving themselves as writers
>they mistake playing a game is enough to make/write one, which is the equivalent of thinking that because you eat a lot at restaurants means you'd make a good chef
and similar reasons.
Need I remind you that a game like Disco Elysium was primarily made by 2 people. You're making excuses for games like OP for their writing, where there are no valid excuses to make.
It's either the dev feeling insecure about their talent being lesser when compared to the masters they're inspired by or some autist being pedantic. I don't get why anyone would defend this mediocre nostalgia bait unless it's the former, considering
is one of their responses.
Likely an underaged.
The immediate, broad extremes response of misunderstanding the topic is emblematic of what underaged commonly do online, especially on Twitter.
Because there's not a single original idea in it. Same problem with almost all RPG games - fans just cherry pick elements from their favorites games and mesh them together. None of those will make your own game stand out. Sea of Stars had everyone jerking off to its visuals, but even in that department it's just sterile nostalgia.
>RPG games
Slow combat, slow map movement, awful story, bland characters, Garl wanking, hardly any abilities, simple “puzzles”.
Literally the only good part is the visuals, forget about being an RPG or not, its not a good G and should be forgotten. This thread shouldn't even exist.
>Budget being related in anyway to raw talent in terms of writing
WEW LAD
>and not dev budgets
Why lie like a gay?
Listen man. I dont care about any of that.
I will literally open multiple tabs of threads about a games I don't know or care about just to derail them into different topics. I'm 30 and this is where my life as lead me, it's pathetic, trust me, I know, but you're cherrypicking is just as bad and not a fair comparison to what's being discussing.
This game looks like the unoriginal first draft of some milennial ideas guy who has never interacted with any media except JRPGs, and then only the most basic b***h ones
>Post deleted
Either sniped or covering its tracks. Pa-thetic.
It was discussed to death. You had people who never played the game shitting on it for no reason (i.e., troonyspammers), and you had people who did play the game shitting on it for legitimate reasons (low skills, no sense of power progression, poor writing, etc.)
>A game that's whole gimmick comes from referencing nostalgia instead of forging its own identity is quickly forgotten.
Wow you don't say.
All these nostalgia games honestly leave me with a bit of a depressing thought and question. I'm not really sure how to phrase it without sounding weird either but I'll just ask it outright anyways. Where is all the new nostalgia? I knew that would be a weird sentence but I think it's pretty clear what I mean. So many games, movies and other media are built around nostalgia for old brands and memories that nothing new seems to get made that gives the current generation the same feeling of nostalgia we had. Maybe it's just too early to tell but I kind of already feel like even newer installments of ongoing franchises are being forgotten faster and faster.
You have a distorted view, neurotic doomer
I get what you mean bro.
The video game industry is completely creatively bankrupt, everything is paint-by-numbers nowadays, the pursuit of profir is so prioritized nowadays that companies see nothing wrong with releasing an unfinished product and slapdashingly patching it later.
Every company's business strategy seems to be to hype up a game with marketing, sell as many copies as possible during the first weeks after release then forget about it months later.
Everything is so disposable nowadays, made carelessly and thoughtlessly because it's not made to last.
Dont worry one day you'll have a Fortnite nostalgia bait game.
I liked it, I dislike turn based games because it feels like I'm just interacting with a menu most of the time but all the timed hit and mini game style attacks, plus the lock system did enough to make me feel like I was actually doing something.
I like its combat more than Chrono Trigger, though the story is pretty shit.
It was probably forgotten quickly because of the time frame, it's not a game you read about in Nintendo power or whatever in the 90s when you're a kid. It's a solid 7/10 for me.
>the bing bing wahoo is enough to hold my ADHD attention span and the bright colors make me feel like happy because I don't have to think too much
Yeah the bing wahoo is fun but I do have to think because of how the locks work. It's like you don't play games and just shitpost on Ganker all day instead you jaded soulless frick.
>It's like you don't play games and just shitpost on Ganker all day instead you jaded soulless frick
If you have a life outside, then why are you here? NTA, just curious.
It's fake thinking. Not real strategizing.
Lock/Break/Stagger/Topple and any other similar systems are trash on a fundamental level because they eliminate the actual player thought component from the game and replace it with extremely guided/railroaded thought to simulate you coming up with a strategy on your own.
There's a world of difference between railroaded slop like this and even the simplest type matchup weakness/resistance system that demands even a shred of thought from the player to evaluate foes and situations with their own eyes.
I'm sorry, but you are terminally moronic. There isn't even a reason to unpack all that garbage you just vomited out since it is clear already that you are not arguing in good faith.
I'm getting old because I ask myself why I should play this new RPG instead of Golden Sun
sex with serai
I'm surprised to know this game got so much criticism considering that 1. Its turn-based and 2. 2023 was the year many turn based rpgs did well such a BG3.
>gameplay is fun
>art is pretty
>music is enjoyable
>story is dog shit unforgivable broken trash
tragic really.
This board has a necrobumping problem.
You have a necrobumping problem. She's like, in a coma dude, gross!
If the Netflix tier cast, and this autistic abortion of an attempt at an anime styled cover art didn't tip you off that this was going to be trash you're ngmi.
Not sure why you thought that was worth necroing this thread.
It was mid+
Music was really good, battle system was good (just needed a bit more skills/complexity), writing was a mixed bag
This thread is two weeks old and dead. You think anyone gives a shit? Let it die already.
I picked it up because it was "free" on PSN and "anons" said it was like Chrono Trigger, then quickly deleted when I saw it was cuck fetish NTR slop. Nothing at all like CT, just more flavor of the month viral marketing slop
>cuck fetish NTR slop
are you fr
I've seen the screenshots
Not to mention the TRANS LIVES MATTER propaganda