Alrighty boys, Broken Arrow enters an Open Beta for MP on the 31st of January, so if you missed the closed beta, here's your chance. Unfortunately both the US and Russia are still using the same old 2 specializations, but it's still fun nonetheless. Unit customization adds a shit load of depth.
Disillusioned Wargame fans, you're gonna want to try this.
Also discuss possible improvements to the game, from what anons who played the Closed Beta. Or the game in general, I'm not your dad.
I only care about the single player campaigns tbh, it's supposed to be heavily moddable in that regard right?
So SP is broken down into a few parts.
* Custom User creations via the ingame scenario editor. Anybody will be able to create SP content the same way that the devs do.
* Campaign for both US and RU. It may be 1 combining both or 2 separate ones.
* 'Generic' SP/COOP content. Comp stomp type stuff.
Marketer bro, I'm looking forward to this but from the previews it looks like infantry is really fragile even while garrisoned, what's the deal?
Infantry isn't so much fragile as it is easily focusable. Yea, those squads of 6 guys can get mulched, but those USMC squads of like 15 guys are a lot harder to get rid of.
The age old adage applies; Don't bunch up and don't move without smoke.
But from the previews it's hard to see what advantage they actually have over armoured vehicles, even in an urban environment they seem to get shredded down.
Some infantry is squishier than others.
For example, a squad of US combat engineers have enough armor to face tank heavy fire for a bit. Also keep in mind infantry can double their speed and have insta deploy smoke.
Your infantry really shouldn't be in a position where they have to stare down a T-90, that AT-4 only helps so much.
The problem is that the urban environments are mostly commie blocks that tend to have a lot of space between them. Might make more sense if they were western apartments that would be crammed together as hard as possible. The way the maps are, they're pretty much just sight blockers.
>they're pretty much just sight blockers.
Isn't that good though? Pop in to shoot an ATGM, then leave before they can return fire and hide behind the building.
Other than that, if you feel the same way after the open Beta, I'd bring it up again. You aren't the only one who felt that way.
For the most part:
Stealthy infantry like recon are your eyes and ears and some of them also have useful weapons to take advantage of being stealthy in a forward position (ie snipers, cav scouts having AT). You should always have a number of them in forests or urban cover ahead of your more valuable stuff, and if they get engaged you should pretty much immediately just exit them out the other side of the building and hide behind it.
Specialist infantry is generally good at its job, but there are huge power gaps between some. Certain AT squads for example are a genuine threat to tanks, while others are just not. AA infantry is only really effective vs helicopters and you don't need much of it to be effective. Lots of people spammed it and were surprised that MANPADs can't shoot down planes.
Regular infantry are... tenuous. They're worse than IFVs at killing infantry, can't fight tanks (even if they carry AT, it's not enough) and can only just barely deter other IFVs from driving past them (but not trade with them effectively). Their main benefit is being beefier than recon units, but they aren't really beefy enough to justify it and melt to most damage sources anyway. Most of the time if you had a squad of Marines, you'd be better off with a squad of Cav Scouts. Generally you're only bringing these in to threaten an enemy garrison when there's too much AT around to have an IFV do it and you want to try and force them to respond with something expensive.
A strong position to be in is to have a lot of recon fanned out over your area, a lot of AT infantry and a bit of AA behind them hidden and then your own vehicles behind that. Let recon inch forward following cover and smoke to spot targets, and then use the correct tool to remove them and advance in that manner.
You seem like you played more than I did, what would you do to buff regular infantry?
Probably just make their AT more credible so they can function more like generalists. A lot of the anti-infantry squads don't make sense just because most vehicles are already good enough at the job and only dedicated AT squads can actually fight them. If an IFV couldn't roll up to a mainline squad in a building and win 100% of the time then you'd have a reason to send in infantry to do the job instead.
It's a videogame, wouldn't be very fun if one faction was strictly superior to the other. This is the catch 22 of any game depicting modern warfare. Just pretend it's america vs some fictional peer adversary that just happens to speak russian.
>battlefield isn't saturated 24/7 with quad drones doing live recon and fire correction, and FPV drones/loitering munitions hunting anything that moves
>pretending that soviet shit equipment is peer to NATO vehicles/tech
it's a fantasy game innit
can you wreck a t-90m with an M2 bradley in it?
You know that bradley thing is fake news right? The t-90 survived the encounter with the bradley, then got hit by an anti tank drone and bailed after that.
not to mention the same bradley got destroyed in an engagement a few days after the t-90 fight
kinda funny if you think about it
Sir do the needful, go have a nice day you smelly hindu nuffin.
Indians really do live rent free in your head, dont they?
Still coping and seething? The Bradley literally wrecked it, it was on fire and probably ridded with holes, the turret was completely damaged and spinning out of control, they lost control of the tank, hit a tree and bailed out...are you that delusional or you saw a different video? Muh Bradley fake news lol are you dumb or something?
Guy literally said in the interview that he was hitting it with HE to blind it. It was not on fire, you are delusional.
Did you saw the video or you just playing dumb?
The Bradley just demolished that T-90, or if you don't see a turret flying, a tank is not destroyed? The Bradley completely wrecked it, it literally fricked up the turret which was spinning on its own, and probably the tank optics were fricked as well since the driver drove right in to a tree, immediately after, the crew bailed, at that point the tank was fricked, they sent drones just to finished the job for good measure. Only a zigger will argue that the Bradley didn't raped the shit out of that T-90.
Learn to speak english you disgusting monkey Black person.
What's seen is the video is a tank damaged by autocannon fire, the crew bails uninjured after the tank is hit by a drone.
>commie troony absolutely delusional
>repeats what tv told him
have a nice day subhuman leftoid
>calls people commie
>supports ruzzia
lmao
Anyone wanna team up for this?
Let's get a /vst/ stack going and top the leaderboard.
Sweatlord
>be (You)
>play open beta
>get absolutely rofl stomped by stacked team
>cry on /vst/ how BA is shit and RTS are ded
get the frick off this board and kys, homosexual
I swear half those lobbies were stacked though.
I got my ass kicked far too often.
Still fun tho.
was really disappointed with this game unfortunately. felt like it had no soul
>Ganker buzzword
when its right its right though
Excited to try this out. What should I know going in, as someone that hasn't played Wargame before.
Recon is important.
Most AA can shoot down missiles
Recover pilots to get a partial refund on downed jets. It's worth it.
Honestly a part of me wishes they'd do the vehicle bailout with ground vehicles too, but there will probably be a mod for that.
>another open test
At long last. It's been forever since the Next Fest.
>less than 2 days
>23 hours left
>22 hours left
>20 hours left
>Game is actually pretty much finished
>Still no set launch date
I'd call it a scam if I hadn't already played the game. What are they up to?
they're still waiting on NCIS to decide wheter to drop the charges or go through with the prosecution.
What does the Navy have to do with this?
from what i remember, the devs are being investigated for a sensitive material breach. They're stuck in limbo at the moment because they can't release the game until they're cleared but demos/ betas which don't draw on the info in question are fine.
Why is the government so evil?
I guarantee it's nothing but the feds are still dragging their feet about it because "lol frick these guys"
How do you even prove something like this?
In all seriousness you're being taken for a ride. There's no public information whatsoever about any such investigation. Were there to be an issue, a company wouldn't hold its product in financial limbo without an explicit court order mandating it--which would once again involve a public record.
Anon just had some conspiratorial fever dream
Further, if you've actually seen any beta content, it's full of placeholders icons and units with unfinished model and animation work. The game isn't out yet because it's not finished; it's not finished because it's a small, nascent studio working on their first and highly ambitious project with a shoestring budget from a noname publisher. Chill.
Well I wouldn't say No name, Slitherine is fairly reputable.
>he doesn't know
We haven't seen the whole unit roster yet, anon.
Your deck picks two specializations. These both influence the units you have access to, and the available point distribution for deckbuilding. For example, the US Marines specialization provides the F-35B because that's the Marine's F-35 variant.
There will be 5 specializations on launch, so presumably we haven't seen a fair number of units that will be ultimately available. There was a leak somewhere that listed what the planned specializations are but I don't recall what it was. Obviously we're restricted to only 2 specs in this beta because the rest of the units aren't ready for public presentation yet.
>basically you're saying infantry guys are underpowered right now except maybe for specialized AT squads?
There are a lot of different types of infantry.
Recon is extremely good. Small, cheap squads with stealth and good optics. Some of them carry strong specialized equipment.
Anti-air infantry are good at dealing with helicopters. They're cheap, have decent range and you can disperse them everywhere behind the line to zone out enemy gunships. They just can't kill planes
AT infantry varies a lot, some are genuine threats to tanks and a major speedbump for attacking forces. Others just kinda suck.
What sucks are the mainline infantry units, the jack of all trades. They are outclassed by most things at most jobs, lack the stealthiness that makes recon hard to kill and die just as quickly as the squads that can actually fight tanks. But for that, they're also expensive. A squad of US Marines cost more than the Bradley to carry them, but the Bradley is infinitely more of a factor.
This is a beta so balance is far from final, but my number one tip for building your deck going in is to carefully consider what specific role you want your infantry to do, and pick the unit that does it best. Expect infantry that gets spotted will just die to something like an airstrike/mortar and prioritize stealth, optics, range and cost. Treat them like movable landmines--a cheap hidden threat to a specific target.
It sounds like infantry is pretty similar to how it felt when I played the next fest demo, it was just spotted and killed instantly and I felt like I couldn't do much. I have yet to play the new demo so my opinion is an old one at this point but it seems like infantry needs some tweaking to be fun
There are currently no US javelin teams only recon squads who also carry javs. Everything takes 3 or 4 hits to kill, a T-14 unobtainium 140mms shell can't destroy an m113 in one shot. A TOW 2 team can't kill a T80 with one load of ammo due to APS. Artillery with over 100 km range irl has 3 or 4 times the range of an atgm with 4km range irl. Things intercepted by missiles irl every day in Ukraine aren't interceptable arbitrarily. Su-57 are objectively better than F-35 as stealth is useless, they both have identical stealth anyways, and the Su-57 can carry more missiles. Since it's impossible for one missile to kill anything a all that matters is beating the arbitrary hp check which the realistic jet loadouts aren't designed for. Should I continue?
its so funny how this game is gonna get all the exact same complaints that wargame gets
let me ask you this anon was it fun?
In general? Yes. I love the supply system although letting apcs and ifvs carry a small amount to support infantry would be cool. The loading shit into vehicles is amazing. Changing loadouts is very cool although I hate how you can't have multiple loadouts (e.g. an air to air f35 and an air to ground one). Aps makes me angry because of how unrealistic it is.
You have to pretend its like 2001 US time traveling to 2050 alternate reality Russia to have any chance of getting past cognitive dissonance.
baww harder clap Black person.
Javelins are limited to Cavalry Recon for balance reasons. It's the best infantry anti-tank in the game. The fact that it's attached to a stealthy squad with good optics plays into its strengths.
>Everything takes 3-4 hits to kill
This is a videogame. If every tank and plane died in 1 hit you would have no time to react and respond to anything. They chose a higher ttk because it's more fun
>A TOW 2 team can't kill a T80 with one load of ammo due to APS
In game APS has a concrete cost and performs a very specific purpose. Tanks protected by APS are prohibitively expensive but require a greater commitment to kill since you need to overwhelm them or deplete them. In practice, anti-tank missiles are utterly abundant, so much so that it's hard for tanks to do anything without APS. They also only have 2-4 uses, meaning you're rewarded for keeping your tanks safe and resupplying them, and punished for 'blitzkrieg' ape rushes. Both factions have equal access to equally costed and equally effective APS. It's completely parallel.
> Artillery with over 100 km range irl has 3 or 4 times the range of an atgm with 4km range irl
Yeah bro let's just make every map 1000km2 so artillery ranges are REALISTIC. I love needing a nitrogen-cooled supercomputer to render the environment. 2 hour+ in game travel times are so fricking based. This is autism.
>Things intercepted by missiles irl every day in Ukraine aren't interceptable arbitrarily
All missiles can be intercepted
>Su-57 are objectively better than F-35 as stealth is useless, they both have identical stealth anyways, and the Su-57 can carry more missiles
The F-35 has better stealth that the Su-57. Like it's literally just there on the stat-screen. You're flat out wrong.
>realistic jet loadouts
GOOD THING YOU GET TO PICK YOUR OWN LOADOUTS EH BUD
Jesus fricking christ
Why did you state so many objective falsehoods? APS is a a small fraction of the cost of a tank and there are plenty of IFVs you can get them on. RU had one under 80 points with APS.
Why do you mention realistic map scales when I complained about relative distances?
Why did you say all missiles can be intercepted?
Why did you say the F35 and Su-57 have different stealth values?
Why are you mentioning you bringing up picking your own loadouts when the complaint was that loadouts aren't designed for hp checks? Iirc you can take at most 4 AMRAAMS in an f35 which is realistic because irl it doesn't take 4 to kill a jet.
Just checked and the SU-57 now has 1.25 stealth while the F-35 has 1.75 so it has been nerfed since the last closed beta
No you're just a moron
>US armoured specialization has no Strykers
What the frick? Did they just forget my boy?
Strykers are Infantry brigade toys, this is an Armoured Brigade. Think Fort Bliss, not Benning.
Sad times, hopefully the full game will have them in a different spec.
Game has a bit of a boner for the AMPV, so I actually don't know. Can't imagine why it wouldn't though.
Btw AMPVs can be equipped with bushmasters and Javelin launchers, which is cool.
The AMPV is based on the Bradley chassis, so they might just be trying to keep equipment standard within each specialization.
Games moddable anyway, who cares?
Any recommended builds for MP beta?
I prefer 1vs1 if that counts.
Are there any noob traps?
1v1 wasn't possible in the last beta and it probably won't be possible here. 5v5s only
>noob trap
expensive helicopters
>expensive helicopters
I'm not that guy you replied to but what's bad about expensive helicopters? Do the cheaper ones just do the same shit basically?
It's a combination of the utility of an expensive one not being worth the added expense and the fragility of them making the investment risky. Basically don't have dual purpose helicopters and you'll avoid most of this issue. Want ATGMs? Put those and nothing else on a helicopter. Want air to air missiles? Same deal. The cannons are quite good if you can use them without getting shot back so any helicopter is infinitely better than no helicopter. Also anti-radiation missiles are fire and forget so as soon as they fire get the frick out.
Helicopters are cheap by default but get more and more expensive as you load more weapons on them. Helis have a hard time staying alive because the battlefield will have an abundance of manpads as well as dedicated anti-air and planes that can strike them. As a result, you typically use heli gunships to contain an enemy tank push that crosses through to your side of the line (and thus out of range of their AA) or in suicidal flanking attacks through gaps in their AA to try and snipe backline units like artillery.
Since their survivability is low, you don't want to overpay for them, and since they are generally going to spend a lot of time zoned out waiting for an opening to do a thing, it's better to have your heli cheap and specialized to do that particular thing. Helis won't have a chance to loiter over active combat and provide fire support so it's best if they dump their whole payload on their intended target quickly and then disengage to safety to resupply.
Most anti-vehicle weapons like ATGMs or missiles from aircraft are categorized as HEAT damage and have corresponding HEAT penetration values varying between 100 and 900
Most vehicles can be upgraded with reactive armour that helps resist HEAT penetration.
Generally speaking, you want to pick vehicles and armour packages that hit nice armour breakpoints, invalidating a lot of cheap or abundant AT, and pick AT with very high penetration that's difficult to build around.
For example: Bradleys (and anything with its chassis) can be up-armoured with around 400 HEAT armour front and sides and active protection, which invalidates a huge swathe of cheap AT and makes Bradleys expensive and annoying to kill despite them not being expensive themselves.
One of the best vehicles available to the US is an anti-air platform on a Bradley chassis. Its guns can engage land targets effectively, the up-armour package makes it really hard to kill and its radar will bait anti-radiation missiles meant for more vulnerable backline AA like patriots--but AR missiles aren't meant to deal with hardened targets and lack the penetration to kill it outright so it just shuts down SAED play entirely.
Beefy vehicles are really strong because you can push with them and trade into units not suited to counter them, draw out the expensive counter units and then focus on eliminating those to gain a steady advantage. By the same token, you want to avoid relying on anti-tank systems that lack the punch to deal with what the other side can field, because people are very quickly going to realize they can go all-in on specific hard-to-destroy vehicles.
so there are 4 playable battlegroups, right
am i dumb in thinking having no air assets is bad
"Battlegroup" is what the devs are calling decks.
There are 2 factions, each faction has two available Specializations to build decks with for this beta. A deck is formed by pairing 2 specializations, and the units and points available to the deck is determined by those specializations.
The full game is planned to have 5 for each faction, but the beta only has 2 for each faction, meaning your decks will be stuck using those 2 for now.
Both factions have fairly symmetrical options available to them for the beta. The russians have a tank/vehicle specialization with no air whatsoever, and a paratrooper specialization with an emphasis on elite infantry and air support
The US has a tank/vehicle specialization with no air whatsoever and a jack-of-all-trades specialization that includes elite infantry, vehicles and air support.
Of the planned 5 specializations per faction, at least 4 each will provide some air options. Only the tank specialization lacks air power, but since you combine 2 specializations to make a deck, every deck will always have at least a little bit of air.
There was an invitational closed test of the open beta version, which the participants have been allowed to talk and release content about. Based on that, expect US air power to be very dominant in the open beta due to a combination of very good planes and very good dedicated AA to keep opposing planes at bay.
yea im asking in the open beta how there are 4 playable decks. 1 of the 2 US decks is armored tank deck and has no air assets and im asking if im dumb for thinking that is not a good thing because i would like to have air assets and so i would pick the other deck that does have air assets
oh but you can combine 2 decks. oops. all right
>i missed it
nvm, it's another 15 minutes
Gamers. It's up.
>2 hours to download
Welp, guess I'm waiting until after work to try it. Have fun without me, friends.
Dont worry its bugged to shit, have been trying to join any games for past 20 minutes, cant
Not touching it until Friday.
I barely have time to recover and sleep, not even thinking about microing VDV.
The game is shitting the bed so hard right now, lobbies are bugged, constant connectivity issues
UI overlapping on itself etc
the servers are dead for now
my gpu goes to 99% utilization on the deck building screen, anyone else having this? Cant get into a game so idk if it would still occur there
Anyone up for some team games together? Feel free to add me
Id/zewafelwerfer/
>check steam profile
>its frickin rollo
Stop being a homosexual and play
The servers appear to be struggling. Which is interesting because the closed beta ran fine, most of the time.
How many people are trying to access it?
ok so i havent touched this game and i just spammed bradleys in my deck lol, havent played a match yet
>Get TOS-1
>Order it to shell enemy 1km away, didnt notice that there is a tall commieblock right next to TOS-1
>TOS-1 happily launches its thermobaric payload hitting the building 50m away
I dont know if arty should reposition by itself or not
>US troops come in M113s
>M548 as a transport
>M60 in active service
>fricking Pivads
>Harriers, Hueys, Cobras and F-18s
Meanwhile
>Russian troops come in variety of unicorn protoshit transporters, some of which are based on Armata chassis
>Speaking of which, T-14 Armata
>T-90s
>SU-57s, Tu-160s, Mi-28 and other unicorn protoshit
They really do believe that everyone else is lying just like them.
Iirc the Motostrelki Russian battlegroup that was in closed beta but is disabled in open beta had plenty of old USSR stuff like T-62's BMP-1s etc
I think that both factions have 4 battlegroups
1 is infantry focused (VDV/Marines)
1 is "high tech" focused
1 is old shit
At least this is what i gathered from footage and dev blogs
Open Beta is literally Closed Beta but without the demo mission. It's almost the same build, wouldn't be surprised if you could run the Demo somehow because all that's missing is the main menu button.
The old, old singleplayer demo had different units in the armory but they were never playable.
Actually disingenuous, US has plenty of access to Bradleys and Abrams tanks. In fact, the brad can get engine upgrades and APS, something the Russian IFVs don't get.
somehow i dont want to get the engine upgrades. why would i get them?
Go fast. Go zoom.
would you say thats important for bradleys in this game
If you're unsatisfied with the speed of the vanilla Bradley, sure.
Really, almost none of your units should go without any upgrades or changes. I put ERA on my brads at minimum.
But if the brad is for a rear echelon squad like some MANPAD infantry, it probably doesn't need a speed boost.
i just put lots of armor on them, but
i cant even play the game to try it out
In the CB if you didn't have a ASF at the start you were going to get fricked.
why? also how many?
Yeah, Abrams HC and all.
But that aside, US Armored and Russia Armored are supposed to be roughly equivalent but US Armored gets M1A2 Abrams and several variants of Bradley with Trophy welded on but Russians literally get Armata, their meme next-gen tank they have less than a dozen of. Same with IFVs, a T-15 is not equivalent to a Bradley. It's not unplayably biased as some suggest, mainly because points balance it out but Russians clearly use prototype future stuff that makes them out to be some insane elite next-gen army while US at best gets current issue.
Either go balls to the wall and give US meme made-up shit that isn't a cold war prototype (LAV-AD???) or make Russian units actually representative of cutting edge Russian pre-invasion forces.
Counterpoint.
Prototype Russian units are really fun to play. The K-25 can be a Bradley clone or a slightly better BTR and the T-15 is an IFV with tank armor, which is objectively cool and fun.
It'd be boring if my only options are BTR or BMP.
>Same with IFVs, a T-15 is not equivalent to a Bradley
This seems like a silly complaint because in practice the Bradley is one of the best land vehicles in the game and extremely economical for what it offers, while the T-15 costs as much as a tank but lacks the firepower that makes a tank worth the pricetag.
Like a lot of the russian wunderwaffe gear, the T-15 only looks good on paper because it has some high stats in things that don't matter. It costs as much as 3 APS Bradleys and just eats shit to TOW missiles and Javelins like everything else.
Most of the US's actual AT tools are top-attack missiles and cluster munitions that bypass armour and the only things that actually care about armour are the low-powered dual-purpose weapons meant to kill BTRs or blast infantry out of buildings.
I don't care about modern fantasy shit because this game would be simply unfun if the fantasy russian and chinese prototypes didn't exist because then the USA would shit all over their gear but why the frick can you take M60 Pattons M113s and other older gear from the cold war? Its the fricking 2020s all of that shit has been retired from service in the 1990s and we already have dozens of cold war games that use that stuff.
>all of that shit has been retired from service
For the US it's simply because there aren't enough units otherwise. There's 5 specializations planned, and for the deckbuilding choices to matter there has to be bigger distinctions between them than one spec getting the F-35A and another getting the F-35B. Hence the US Marines use a tonne of old equipment, some of which is genuinely still in use because the marines really do use old equipment, and others that were decommissioned within the past few decades-- just to pad the roster and provide the player with some low cost, low-tech alternative options. The Patton may be a meme but god could you imagine how dull it would be if the only thing in the US Vehicle tab were Abrams with increasingly long sequences of letters and numbers behind them?
It's a real downside to modern war games that for the most part modern equipment is very standardized as opposed to say, WW2. The US fields one tank, not 5. And as much as you can split that one tank into little variants, they're all still just little upgrades to the same tank. IFVs, Aircraft, helicopters, tanks. In every unit category you only find parallel options by moving forward or backwards in production eras, and even then you end up with a lot of the same platform just being incrementally modernized over decades.
I really agree. The roster needs more fun stuff for flavour. Now give us the option to have some whacky, zany upgrade programs like the MBT2000 and the 140mm prototype.
You can get an M109 with a big ass barrel in the US Artillery group and there's that absolutely busted SHORAD Brad that can shoot hellfires are ground and air targets.
>stealth apache
>that finnish mortar turret apc
>also infantry shit
I think things will get more flavourful when we have access to all 5 specs. Like the current gameplay system feels good and quite orthodox but I can't imagine what's going to happen when you have access to things like Strykers with 105mm cannons, Stealth Bombers, AC-130 Gunships and genuine special forces
And if the T-90 is already cheap and cost effective at 170 points, I can't imagine what it's going to be like facing down swarms of T-64s.
Also yeah as
mentioned the US does get some apocryphal AA platforms currently.
>start game
fps
>gpu about to meltdown
ah i see, the slavcode struck again
Should I run the default deck? Anyone have a russian deck I can copy
i made one consisting only of helos and inf so i can recreate the russian attack on the airport at the beginning of the war
Great game guys , wargame killer is here
What is a Refreiter?
I refreitered your mum last night, ask her
Are you trying to play this game on laptop stealing McDonald wifi? Who the frick has lighted up letters on their celling
It's Donmak here actually
I'm unemployed
Let's play
God Russians are so fricking weird for no reason.
What is going on here? Why do you live in an office building?
Are you trying to play at work?
SOMEONE HOST A LOBBY
>auto join
>insta kicked
great game
>can't join lobbies
>game just freezes
I cant tell if units take forever to kill or if the server is just shitting itself, is it normal for a LAV AD to take like 10 t90 shots to fricking kill or an ATACAMS taking around 50 30mm rounds
how important is air to air aircraft? i went all in on fast bombers
I found a game and it was fun for however long it lasted. Game just kept going after 45 minutes ran out, no score, units couldn't damage each other anymore and it seemed like most players dropped out (no indicator). That said, my fellow xaxaxaxa bros why are our T-14 Armata and Terminator so good? Can nafogays even compete? Also, VDV all day every day. Feels good knowing they kill globohomosexual degenerate Marines while enforcing straight male hierarchical intercourse.
I know this post is bait but in my first match i had Russian stormtroopers in the open ground defeat marines that were holed out in a commieblock
Felt kind of weird, maybe OP
It's those thermobarics. They rape pretty good. The US has their own assault engineers but I don't think they have incendiaries, just a lot of shotguns.
If a squad gets pinned and the enemy closes with them, it's a wrap for those pixel truppen.
There are various dedicated anti-garrison weapons. All forms of grenade launcher as well as a few notable RPG variants and other explosives absolutely decimate units in garrisons but are less effective in the open. These things exist specifically to displace encamped squads. Both sides have pretty much symmetrical access to these tools both in the form of special forces squads in the recon tab and some dedicated assault squads in the infantry tab. Engineers, for example. Any vehicle equipped with a grenade launcher is also very good at this, as is the special engineering Bradley with bunker busters. The Marine Raiders are the best doorkickers in the game right now.
If you're approached by something like this, it's best to have your squad exit the building on the far side so that the building itself provides cover. These assault squads are the kings of close quarters urban combat but they have no anti-vehicle whatsoever and suck in open areas.
So far I think the game is better than wargame titles, the combat is much more mobile and reminds me of world in conflict and men if war .
The units seem fleshed out and have a range of different abilities, smoke and artillery are useful. Infantry is more important and you can micro them a lot better, sprinting across roads etc , retreat orders
The server issues are being fixed, as rapidly as they can be.
Apparently there Dozens of thousands of people trying to play, which is rather impressive for a game like this but they weren't ready for such a large reception.
fine, i didn't want to play anyways
How exactly does armour and penetration interact?
Tonnes of US vehicles have the option to add ERA bumping their HEAT protection to ~400
But every source of russian HEAT damage is 550 penetration or more.
Is penetration a hard yes/no check at the given cutoff or is there a sliding scale? Is there any point in having HEAT defense below the penetration value of a given attack?
>How exactly does armour and penetration interact?
There's an esoteric spreadsheet somewhere on the official discord.
Basically tanks take either 3 or 4 hits to kill, IIRC maximum damage from an APFDS cannon is 6, I don't remember what it is for HEAT but it isn't wildly different. You can do damage if you don't beat the penetration score just less. It's like Eugen's Wargame except stupider.
>You can do damage if you don't beat the penetration score just less.
What if you DO beat the penetration score?
Let's say you hit a target with 400 HEAT armour
And your RPG has 550 HEAT penetration.
Does your RPG reach its full damage at 400 penetration and the rest is just wasted? Or does it gain more damage the more it overcomes the target's armour?
Here's the formula
I made a graph to better visualize the relationship
This helped a tonne.
I quickly punched the formula into a spreadsheet to check some stuff.
Using the bradley ERA package as an example:
By default, 100 HEAT armour
With upgrade, 400
14 HP
The vast majority of AT sources will kill it in 2 hits regardless of whether it's ERA-protected or not.
Only a very select few AT options take an extra hit to kill the up-armoured version, namely the Razvedka scouts and the Konkurs ATGM (which is the 'cheap' option available alongside a stronger ATGM). For the vast majority of russian HEAT damage sources, Bradley armour upgrades will effectively do nothing--according to this formula.
I just took the bradley as an example since it jumps from 100 to 400, but you could probably test most armour upgrades available to both factions in a similar manner to determine which ones are worthwhile and specifically what units they're becoming more survivable against.
For reference:
The damage formula for HEAT weapons can be simplified as:
Base damage x (1 - (target's HEAT armour / HEAT penetration) x 0.5 = actual damage you deal.
Penetration below target armour incurs a hefty penalty to the actual damage you deal, but damage continues to increase the more you overpenetrate your target.
This also means armour upgrades can be worthwhile even if your total armour value is small and you're facing a high-penetration enemy. However, you need to actually solve for the end damage result to see if it causes you to be able to survive an extra hit or not. Dropping damage down from 11 to 7 does nothing if you only have 14hp, but dropping it from 7 to 6 is huge.
>I'm employed and therefore can't play until later
Wagecucks are defeated yet again.
The servers aren't functional, you aren't currently missing anything besides the deckbuilder which admittedly is a fascinating game of "Why the frick is this like this?"
Who gets filtered by a menu?
Same bro. But if i took the day off i woulda just been sitting there waiting for the server to go up.
Btw holy shit the people on the official servers are subhuman level moronic. This game is gonna be easy.
>Javelins aren't top-attack
Something about that doesn't sound right
Javelins are absolutely top attack, I just don't think the missile path emphasizes that at all.
How is this different from WARNO? Also do they really expect you to think ziggers and the US are peer opponents
It's not. Cya.
For one, it's actually fun.
In practice the game doesn't even pretend so. The factions are roughly 'balanced' for gameplay reasons but in practice the US has better long range anti-tank capabilities, better tanks (yes, even with the Armata around) and better aircraft. Abrams with Active Protection are absolute juggernauts, the F-35 rules the skies, Patriots shut down most air play and you can't advance a vehicle out of cover without it getting spotted and killed from a mile away by stealthed Javelin teams.
While russia has access to some of their fantasy toys, they're mostly overpriced and underperforming, more suited for fighting their own hardware than american weapons that just bypass all their armour with top attacks. In practice what makes Russia even playable is that they have a lot of cheap middle-ground units that can flood the field. Their basic infantry is good for its cost, T-80s are half the price of an Abrams and they have a lot of cheap artillery options, so they can just be in more places at once. Obviously some western systems are toned down for balance reasons but the game is not really doing Russia any favours right now.
Claps are so insecure it's insane
After 2 years folks are reasonably weary of the Global South cheerleading a soviet rumpstate.
I'm most excited for the player made campaigns. I want some turbo Mil enthusiast autist to describe in detail how the US First Armoured division would systematically dismantle the 3rd Guards Army.
>launch game
>see military "deck-building"
>uninstall game
good. nobody will miss you homosexual. eugen's and this game's deck building is a pretty cool timesink.
Enjoy all the useless military you’re going to acquire from learning about all the nearly identical troop carriers. I’ll be enjoying games that don’t require me to spend countless hours of my life comparing redundant units.
>get a chance to play finally
>the servers are still down even though they've apparently been down all day
>well at least I can look at all the units and maybe create some decks
>start to look at units
>realize you're not allowed to rotate the camera yourself to look at stuff, the camera is locked
Scammed twice, what the frick.
middle mouse button doofus
>being THIS moronic
There is even a popup or some sort of hint that says PRESS MIDDLE MOUSE TO ROTATE CAMERA NOW
I have no hope left for this board
Man infantry is fricking straight up trash, just like expected.
I just think they need to be stealthier. Mainline infantry in cover can be spotted from a safe distance by basically anything. The only squads that are worth a damn are the stealthy ones and the really long range AT.
If normal infantry was harder to spot, then vehicles would wander into RPG range before seeing them, you'd need to screen for your vehicles with your own infantry and all of the anti-infantry squads would make a lot more sense.
>suddenly connect
>try to join a lobby
>kicked instantly
>join another lobby
>game starts in 5 seconds
>someone asks "how to switch nation" (I don't know either, game automatically assigned me to US)
>thrown into a match
>I don't have a US deck built
>unable to spawn units or do anything
Wtf? Does this game give you a generic deck if you didn't have one? I was clicking a bunch of shit in a panic and I saw the the game lets you switch decks when you're loading? Maybe I accidentally switched it or something
yeah, the game gives you a default deck not visible in the deck builder. you pick one in the lobby.
you pick the nation by clicking the flag icon on the left hand side in the lobby.
player culture aint the same no more man. anyone who usually pings is playing warno
why the frick are people not marking where they're going like in wargame? Every single match so far i've ended up having to hold a massive front against 3 players.
in four games not one person has used chat, drawn anything but dicks or amogus on the map, or used the team ping.
I am not playing this game online after this beta again, the world is a frick
just gotta play with your buddies from /vst/
Give people a break. It's effectively day 1 of a complicated strategy game with no tutorial, folks are still figuring out basics and learning hotkeys.
>folks
>Folks
You stick out like a sore thumb.
I'm sorry this game in beta isn't competitive enough for you.
maps are too big, income is too scarce, units are too few, and the keystones are too powerful for everyone to just shrug during deployment and not even attempt to delineate even a vague area of responsibility. we don't have to draft an op plan but if two people accidentally pick the same lane the game is over before it starts
>maps are too big
The maps vary in size enormously
>units are too few
Call in cheaper units
>keystones are just too powerful
Like what? AT is crazy strong right now so it's very hard to just muscle through with vehicles
> if two people accidentally pick the same lane the game is over before it starts
Buddy there's no point counter ticking down. The game is decided by one team taking every point or by holding more at the end of the timer. You have an absurdly long time to retake points and holding them early accomplishes nothing unless you can literally hold them for the whole 45 minute match. If too many people pick one side you should be able to force your way to some points with numbers and then either push to their backline points or redeploy to the other sector and contest it.
In the showmatches with the closed beta champions teams typically went with 2-3 players in a single lane with leftovers just kind of fanning out recon units to watch the frontier. There's no harm in in committing a lot of material to key battlegrounds. Forcing the other side out of a contested urban center is huge because it's difficult to approach those head on, but an isolated strongpoint can be approached from many different angles and overtaken so it's not like the opening moves dictate the other 40 minutes of the game.
Plus, you can see where your allies deploy units during the setup phase. You can literally just watch where folks put their stuff and pick a different spot.
>The maps vary in size enormously
Since the game magnanimously picks three from the pool and people only pick what they know, I can't tell. any time that peninsula map comes up all nine other morons slobber for it.
>Call in cheaper units
They just die
>Like what?
Your entire axis and pace of advance is defined by your fire support base and anti-aircraft net.
>Plus, you can see where your allies deploy units during the setup phase.
People keep fricking buying all their shit near their map entry point and then move ordering it wherever they want to fight! Nobody ever seems to realize they can claim a zone by ordering during deployment.
Why is everyone in this game such a moron except for you?
You are the only smart person playing this game right now!
if I were smart I could figure out how to keep a sprut alive for more than ten seconds once it starts fighting. sounds like we're all in agreement that this game isn't a good fit for everyone.
Go back to warno
Try using recon ahead of committing important units to locate hidden threats so you can clear them out ahead of time, and then using smoke to help them disengage when those important units they're targeted by ATGMs. Most US AT weapons will take 2-3 shots to kill a Sprut so that gives you plenty of time to respond, smoke and withdraw.
>they all just die
They shouldn't. Unit preservation involves positioning (ie spreading units out into concealed positions where they can support each other), scouting ahead so you can see what's coming before it sees you, and using smoke effectively. If you feel both like your units are dying and you can't field enough, you probably aren't purchasing enough recon. Think "Elastic Defense" Your frontline should be dispersed, porous and stealthy and your valuable units should be held in a mobile reserve behind, so when you see something you can pick the right weapon to engage it on your terms. More recon will also keep you flexible when you need to cover gaps your teammates leave in map coverage.
>Your entire axis and pace of advance is defined by your fire support base and anti-aircraft net.
Anti-aircraft is absolutely essential but for the most part SAMs cover huge areas from a safe backline position and are fairly cheap. For anti-helicopter firepower you can just have a handful of MANPAD squads hidden in trees and highrises a little behind your line of contact. They'll shut down any helicopter stuff
Big artillery is niche in this game. Your fire support is covered by cheap, mobile mortar vehicles that can hover out of sight just behind combat. The expensive stuff is less important and more for one-off heavy hits punishing clusters of units. You shouldn't impoverish yourself fielding a 250 cost MLRS in the opening minutes of a game when an 80 cost mortar is all you really need. Save the big hitters for when there's a big to hit.
Me when a game not even 48 hours into its beta doesn't have an autistic meta gaming community of turbo gays.
homosexuals are crashing the servers by constantly switching the nations in lobbies which will crash your game.
I was wondering why people were doing this, very annoying
I was able to play 1 match. The objective areas you're supposed to be fighting over are very hard to see from a distance. It wasn't immediately obvious where my team's spawn and where the enemy team's spawn was. I was confused when I bought units and they didn't appear where I thought they were going to appear.
>servers still eating shit
It looks like it's playable for now. It took me about 5 minutes to connect when I got on but I've stayed connected and had no issue getting into matches.
Deck building is harder than I thought it'd be. I'm thinking the high cost tanks are actually a trap because the differences are so marginal, but i'm not sure if I wanna go for the t-90A with ECM for 100 points less or t-90M with APS.
always take APS over armor and ECM. it allows you to ignore the first shots of the engagement, when the units are at their most dangerous, since morale/stun damage quickly racks up.
you should only be letting your tanks' front armor get shot, and ECM doesn't seem to be doing anything of note, really.
can i use drones to drop mortar shells on people?
Yes, based Russian drones have laser designation. Kohols won't see what hit them.
Russia has big recon drones that can be armed with some basic ATG weapons but there are no FPV drones.
Each faction is split into 5 subsets, each with different rosters of available units and you combine 2 to form your roster. Right now each side only has 2 for this beta, so we haven't seen all the units that will be available in the full game. For example, the US doesn't have Strykers right now.
APS is extremely strong, always grab it when you can afford to. It has 100% intercept rate with a 5 second downtime and 4 charges. A TOW2B can kill a tank in 2 shots because top-attack bypasses all its armour. With APS, that same tank takes 6 shots. APS is really fricking good. Remember that you can resupply APS ammo with supplies as well, so a tank can use up 3-4 of its charges, pop smoke and reverse out of combat to restock before diving right back in.
ECM is kinda poop. It's a 10-20% chance for a missile to frick off, but when your main threats are killing you in 2-3 missiles you're going to see a lot of tanks die without the ECM doing anything, just because of probability. The reason you see both is that the VDV spec comes with a few shitty tanks that have to settle for ECM, while the Guard Tank spec gives you the best tanks in the faction at the expense of fewer helis and planes. In the full game, you might pair the VDV with another specialization that has even worse tanks, and your ECM T90 might be the best you have. But as long as you have the option to pick a unit with APS, you should always bring APS.
>guy put a big transport plane in his deck
>this allowed him to shove a million infantry into it, fly over the map and then paradrop them all in one spot
That was so cool to watch. This game could potentially be so based, if they just don't frick everything up
Protip: at the start of the game, call in your preferred air-to-air plane and have it loiter your side of the map. That way if the other side tries to rush points with paradrops you can intercept and get a frickload of kills basically for free.
If the plane doesn't find anything, you can just recall it for a refund.
Other players are really unlikely to have AA up at the start of the game and it's likely to be too far back to threaten your plane, so you can basically do this with impunity.
Just hope they get the okay from NCIS
First impressions are pretty good honestly, jank mainly comes from the UI, a lot of stuff needs to be displayed better.
I'm just gonna post infodumping things I've noticed or looked into:
US squads mostly carry multiple disposable AT4s. These have below-average HEAT penetration and poor damage and aren't suitable for fighting tanks. Even against lighter vehicles, it would likely take an entire squad's set of AT4s to kill something. However, they can target infantry in buildings and have a good suppression value and AoE so this is probably their best use.
The Mech Riflemen SAW has the same firing stats as their M16s (this might explain why they're underperforming so hard). All other LMGs have both increased range, damage, penetration and accuracy over ARs. This is probably just a placeholder/oversight.
Infantry have armour between 5-10mm depending on unit. ARs pierce 5mm at max range and increase penetration as they get closer, eventually reaching 10. This uses the KE penetration damage formula--penetrating your target deals full damage ranging down to 10% damage at 50% penetration. Squads with 10 armour, like Engineers, are very resistant to small arms fire until they get close to their targets (where they can use their shotguns and be most effective). MGs (except for the bugged one above) all start with 10mm of pen at max range, making them effective at shutting down assault units. All vehicle-mounted weapons without exception have at least 10 penetration, meaning infantry armour is always irrelevant against incoming damage from vehicles (unless there's some hidden interaction between armour and AoE but who knows). US DMRs have the same penetration as standard ARs, so despite their longer range they are poor at range against other recon units with high armour.
Most elite squads have 7 armour, giving them an advantage at range against basic infantry. Most Recon squads have between 7-10 but tend to be smaller squads for their cost (Force Recon being a 6 man squad for 75 while Marines are a 13 man squad for 90) so it's likely more for survivability than to help them win shootouts.
I appreciate your analytical autism and the intricate systems at play.
The Optics stat is a direct quantification of detection range in meters. 1000 Optics = 1000m detection range.
The Stealth stat divides the Optics stat of whatever is trying to spot you. The result is their new detection range against you. Most vehicles have a Stealth of 1, meaning they don't affect detection range at all. Standard infantry all have 1.75 stealth, so a spotter's Optics are divided by 1.75. 1000m Detection range becomes ~571.4. It's not clear how the system rounds or truncates decimals.
Units in cover (indicated by a green shield icon) are 'hidden'. Forests hide everything, while entering a building can also hide infantry in urban environments. Spotters have their detection range halved against hidden units. Some elements of the environment, like hills, buildings, forests and smoke can block line of sight, effectively making whatever is behind them undetectable.
Firing progressively increases the distance a unit can be detected at. If you want to keep a spotter undetected, toggling it of fire at will will help it stay hidden.
Once a unit is detected, the detection range against it is doubled to allow you to keep track of the target you've spotted. Once you lose sight of it, either from it breaking line of sight or moving out past the new detection range, it resets back to normal until you can spot it again.
Most vehicles don't have enough spotting range to detect infantry before wandering into the firing range of their RPGs. However, Recon Infantry and some recon vehicles have absurdly long Optics.
Scout Snipers in cover with a stealth of 3 cut a vehicle or infantryman's 1200 Optics down to 200m.
Stealth planes work the same way, effectively reducing the range that they can be detected as well as the range that radar-guided weapons can acquire a lock on them (you may spot a stealth plane visually while it performs a strafe, but unless your active radar detects it, radar-guided missiles can't target it)
Hello, anyone up for playing this strategy game?
I'm at work but I'll be down for some /vst/ games in about 7 hours. Sorry if that's not timezone-friendly.
Thanks for the reply, american. Sadly, i am a third worlder from europe and we can never play together.
LET ME INNNNNNN
Check your email.
sent 😉
how many maps are there at the moment?
too many. the broken arrow community is infested with MAPs
Like 9.
Finally got to play a couple games.
>game needs A LOT of polishing
>random crashes and disconnects
>planes seem finicky
>last second tank rush still strong
I've found it's much easiest to keep tank populations under control with aggression in this game. As soon as someone stops spending on units to save for another tank you can start slipping through their lines with VEE DEE VEE or force recon and start killing things they were trying to keep out of combat. Last game I played I had my side of the map completely clear of anti-air around the 40 minute mark and spent the last 5 minutes spawncamping with helis.
The upkeep system makes it easy to punish someone trying to save for big units since you can field so much cheap stuff by comparison. Stealth units especially punish people for building too tall and lacking map coverage.
Sounds good but so far i have barely any idea what i am doing.
Is there a way to see players while ingame? I've had several DCs midgame and no way of checking which team they are from.
No clue. So far I've generally just been pushing one side of the map autistically and not really paying attention to my team.
Why is there no way to rebind the camera rotate key from mousewheel to something else?
How the frick does laser designator works? And is the HIMARS with ATACMS bugged? The fricking thing refuses to fire, but I see other randos use it just fine.
Units with a laser designator have the option to lase a target as one of the icons on the bottom right. There will be an indicator showing that they are lasing the target, which makes any laser-guided munitions targeting that enemy home in on it with near-perfect precision.
Artillery has 3 fire modes: standard, smoke and laser-guided. ATACMS and PrSM are laser-guided by default and take all the space on the launcher, so vehicles equipped with those can ONLY perform the laser-guided strike. There's a note in the Beta's manual on the main menu about this--the other fire missions are supposed to be greyed in this case out but that didn't make it into the Beta, so trying to use them with ATACMS just has no effect.
Holy shit I love heliborne infantry on these huge maps. I've almost stopped bringing them in IFVs, opting instead to guesstimate (which sometimes works poorly) their AA range, and running infantry into cover. Organically grow my hard firepower as the game progresses, continually reinforcing with airborne.
I don't know:
>How laser rangefinders work, they seemingly don't comply with the order to lase
>How SEAD works, they seemingly never fire
>How to order my bombtrucks to drop mixed bombs in one bombrun, they seem to only want to drop one type of bomb (napalm, cluster, HE, etc) at a time
>how to utilize cruise missiles
The game also shits itself after one or two games, requiring a restart, but it runs WAY better than it used to in the closed beta.
>How laser rangefinders work, they seemingly don't comply with the order to lase
you are either out of range or out of LoS, the line turns red if there's an obstacle in the way of the laser
>How SEAD works, they seemingly never fire
SEAD missiles work automatically by shooting at any AA with radar on, generally if they can intercept ballistic missiles it means they have radar on, if you have a spot on the AA and it has a little green radar icon on it, it means it's radar is on
>How to order my bombtrucks to drop mixed bombs in one bombrun, they seem to only want to drop one type of bomb (napalm, cluster, HE, etc) at a time
bombs are separated into low-drag and high-drag, you can see this in the arsenal/deck builder. low-drag bombs can only be dropped from high alt and are therefore riskier but cheaper, while high-drag bombs can be dropped from low alt making them safer but expensive (in the gamey sense not irl)
>how to utilize cruise missiles
press p as many times as you want to launch missiles/PGMs and then click where you want them to land, one P click means one missile launch and the following click means an impact and its location
Guess I'm just experiencing SKILL ISSUE then, anon. Thanks for the elaboration.
Now, how the frick do I mix deployed squads in transports? It seems silly that I can only land one kind of infantry in my massive supply helo, and that's what it seems like in gameplay, but i've explicitly witnessed enemy players land mixed squads utilizing a single helicopter right in front of me
If I remember correctly, deploy the helicopter via the helicopter menu, squads should pop up next to it.
Helis frick
This game sucks I thought we were getting World in conflict
How does this look for a russian list?
All the IFVs are upgraded with some sort of ATGM. The transport helis carry ATGMs (which makes them cheaper tank killers than the actual helis). The Mi-35s are close infantry support while the Mi-28 is a more expensive tank hunter
The Su-57 is specced entirely for SAED, the Su-35 for Air Superiority and the 25s for cheap CAS.
The idea is to have a tonne of AT on every low-cost, mobile platform alongside lots of T80s with APS. Put out a lot of low-cost things and just kind of body the other side with numbers.
I hate Russians so much I refuse to play as them even in a bideo bame
I'd ditch the TOS for some howtizers. The TOS' range is unusable but the 4200m of tube guns can make them acceptable.
I would take tanks in one of two cases: High end with APS to go somewhere the enemy doesn't want me to be and cannons meant to kill poorly armored stuff. The 170 pt T-90 doesn't really do either of those so I would drop them and replace them with something else.
You need cheap transport and more trucks. 2 is not enough
Troon
>more trucks. 2 is not enough
If you're taking more than one truck - especially if you have helos - you're a fricking moron
dumbest opinion of the year award.
If you're managing supply well you shouldn't need anything more than 1 big cargo helicopter and 1-2 trucks.
Make a big backline dump and then use trucks to move small supply loads forward into little dumps as needed. Your supplies should never actually get close to the frontline, since they're fricked the moment they get spotted. It's better to just periodically rotate units back to your dumps as needed so they can keep hidden.
Too many damn bugs and runs like shit. The bones are there but I'm but I'm not sure if the morons making it are capable of fixing it
Apparently it's the login server being fricked up that's stopping people from playing. Whatever the excuse is it's still very gay
>we paused the automatic acceptation to beta
FRICK
Black folk
ITS THE GODDAMN WEEKEND
>Dev actually explains what the problem is
Holy based, why do so many refuse to do this?
>Play RU
>Almost nothing but mirror matches
>load into match
>game gives me the default deck
>I'm pretty fricking sure that I have a deck already made and that I didn't switch off it
>not allowed to leave and join a new battle, only allowed to "reconnect" and play with whatever random shit they gave me
Cool.
yeah, if you don't manually select your own deck it gives you the default starter deck
which is very cool when the game IMMEDIATELY starts as soon as you join
>if you don't manually select your own deck it gives you the default starter deck
This has happened to me three fricking times tonight. At least I got to log in and play the game at all.
This is a major annoyance. You should be able to mark a default deck which is picked instead of some random bs.
the way the lobby system works HEAVILY encourages teamstacking
i already uninstalled. had one US vs US match but didnt understand too much. why wouldnt i just play wargame
Actually curious about this.
Never played wargame but what do people who have think about both games?
I like broken arrow better because there are no autists who spent the last 10 years mastering it who would kick my ass all the time
what about in ten years
in ten years I'll be one of those autists and people will be switching over to the brand new shiny broken arrow killer
It's better than Wargame in pretty much every aspect save performance.
T. 500 hours in Red Dragon.
Can you name some things you prefer?
Artillery is much more responsive, you can very easily lay down an entire wall of smoke, or creeping barrage your way through a residential area. You can paradrop units on the map, you can sell transports and other units you don't want anymore, custom plane loudouts, the sound design is phenomenal, the maps are cool and play differently.
That's just off the top, I can do more.
Not that anon, but unit customization is a huge plus, especially when it comes to support tab and air tab.
In RD more than half of the planes are noob traps or sidegrades. It also cuts down on BMP 1, BMP 1 but with ATGM, BMP 1 but with shitty ATGM, etc that clutter the game.
AirPlay is a mixed bag. The designation tools are fun, work, and make sense. You can paint the area you want to bomb and from which direction and because buildings can catch missiles, and stop bombs and shells it adds more to the game.
Still, the ATGM planes in Wargame are much more responsive to simple attack commands.
Infantry feels like shit at the moment. RD does it so much better. Whether it's recon, meatshield, or line inf, it's usable. Can't say the same for BA.
I also find myself constantly scratching my head, wondering what unit sees from where it is. Doubly so if it isn't in the building and I'm trying to paint a target with laser.
Something that has never happened to me in Red Dragon. The line-of-sight tool helps a little, but the animation has to go.
>guy buys a TU-160 to carpet bomb my one (1) Metis ATGM team hiding in a forest
>the 65 point Metis team is obliterated by 21000kg of TNT
>the 600 point Tu-160 is shot down by my TORs
Good trade.
so the infantry is kinda shit in this game? infantry is my favorite type of unit to use.
Yes and no. Generic riflemen don't really have a role beyond meat shield, but assault units, ATGM units and MANPAD teams all work really well. Recon infantry as well is very useful.
infantry is amazing with cover and points to retreat to
overextended, lonely infantry get redmisted in seconds, a well-organized, supplied and supported urban force of infantry can only be dislodged by an unacceptable amount of artillery
Infantry is fragile but can still be strong. They're your main source of vision and are themselves hard to spot, which make them good for AA and AT work. Generic Infantry kind of suck, though.
nah normal infantry is pure dogshit.
There's no "using them right" they will lose vs tanks 1v1 in forests, they're pure garbage. Only good for atgm teams, manpads and recon.
>use my line infantry to storm your weapon teams
>move my own weapon teams in
checkmate atheist
You would've done 10x better with IFVs
You storm with dedicated assault units like Engineers, Spetsnaz and Marine Raiders. These units have grenade launchers that mulch infantry in garrison and high damage close range weapons to win shootouts after approaching, as well as superior armour to give them an advantage in the shootout. These units ARE worthwhile, as they're basically the only anti-infantry infantry worth a damn. If you need to storm or protect a position, these are usually the units you want to pick.
>augment weaker squads
Any squad can be used to do that, so you're better off picking one that's actually useful.
For the record, Mech AA teams have the exact same anti-infantry shooting stats as Mech Riflemen. Same damage, accuracy, armour, hp. The AA team just trades an M203 for a Stinger, but the underslung grenades shoot too slowly to be a major factor unless a squad has a bunch of them to alpha strike with. You pay a little more for a squad that fights just as well but is also your core anti-air anchor.
>they can be used to find enemy positions with their face
They shouldn't, because they are fragile. This is why the whole recon tab exists: units that are good at finding the enemy and also good at not dying in the process.
>be used to augment numbers
I would rather augment numbers with another engineer squad
Mech Riflemen are the worst infantry unit available in the game right now. But this isn't super surprising because their LMG is bugged. It just helps filter out folks who are making shit up, because the squad is objectively bad and verifiably bugged.
The issue is that Marines (not raiders, just standard ones) are also bad, despite being an expensive 'elite' squad with better stats. That's a clear indication that the whole concept behind these mainlines and their loadout isn't clicking.
To a lesser extent, Gvardii Motostrelka are also bad, but because their AT is really strong they have a niche jumpscaring IFVs in urban terrain.
So I know that if you lose a unit, it "regenerates" over time and eventually you can buy it again (if you don't have any copies left or if you only had one copy). Is this "regen" timer a fixed thing where it's the same for all units regardless of type/price? Or does it vary?
You should still totally take generic infantry in your deck anyway for access to the IFVs.
Honestly just use them to escort other infantry and you'll be fine.
Though they'll probably get a buff before long.
Naw. You get the same IFVs with useful infantry. US get Bradleys with their Stinger teams and Engineers, which already gives you more than you could need. Russia has a bunch of good IFVs available to all of their weapon teams. There's no reason to pay a deck tax for transports in this game.
I disagree, most of those guys cost more than a rifle squad.
They cost more because they actually do things. They are extremely worth the pricetag, especially the AD infantry because that's your main frontline screen preventing enemy helis from just rolling over you.
I disagree with this whole infantry is useless narrative. Generic riflemen can be used to augment weaker squads, they can be used to find enemy positions with their face, be used to augment numbers when storming a building. If a squad of engineers is backed up by riflemen, they'll both perform better. And the US MMG infantry is good at pinning literally every other squad in the game.
Though I will agree their short range anti tank needs buffed and they could do with a smidge more armor.
And the US LMG is bugged, only fires as fast as their AR.
SEAD tips? I don't know how to make them target.
Try pressing V, which is the change altitude button when you think you're near some enemy AA. I think when the plane is at high altitude the missiles are out of range and won't fire. I literally just had this revelation after like 5 fricking games played because I'm dumb. Same thing if you have an ATGM plane and I think bombs require you to change altitude as well? A certain type of bomb anyway
High Drag bombs require low altitude flying
Low Drag bomb (as well as most air-to-ground missiles) require high altitude.
Flying low altitude conceals you from radar and makes it harder for long range AA to kill you, but leaves you more vulnerable to close range anti-heli stuff. High altitude makes you easier to detect and an easier target for radar-guided AA but negates most other forms of AA because you're essentially too far away. It's a good idea to fly low when you're withdrawing back to safe territory after a successful strike, and some CAS planes like the harrier can deck themselves out entirely with low-altitude weapons and just try to sneak by radar. Stealth planes want to live in High Altitude because their stealth already makes it hard for Radar to find them, so they're basically safe from everything as long as you don't fly directly over a Patriot.
Protip: when you hear the air raid siren, it's a good idea to toggle your MANPAD squads to hold fire. They will waste a lot of ammo trying to shoot a jet plane hovering the edge of their range dumping flares, with no realistic chance of hitting it.
SEAD will fire automatically when it detects an active radar signature. Just put it in high altitude and leave it to loiter somewhere vaguely close to the frontline. Just remember that the plane has to be in range of its target, so if it's loitering too far back it might not be able to fire at the big backline SAM sites until you move it up. Generally, SAMs outrange SEAD. Planes are too expensive for a wild weasel approach to be practical on your own, but it can be a good idea to send your SEAD plane out to follow your teammates airstrikes, that way the SAED missiles can find and target the AD that responds to your teammate's plane without sending yours on a suicide mission.
Just be mindful that SEAD missiles target the nearest active radar source, so the other side can screen for SAM sites with armoured AD platforms that don't die to a missile
will planes automatically engage air or ground targets with sidewinders or mavericks?
I believe they can engage air targets automatically but they aren't smart about it so it's better to instruct them manually. Ground weapons won't fire without an explicit command, because they can easily friendly fire.
Does the beta have any SP content like skirmish with bots? The game looks cool, but I really don't care about the multiplayer.
it doesn't
No. The devs billed this as a multiplayer/server stress test, hence the servers have been shitting themselves since it launched.
I do hope the final game includes more junky obsolete tech. The Pattons, M113 and AAVPs in the USMC list are a tonne of fun and made me want more access to the outdated soviet gear instead of these pansy ass Bumerangs.
They will come with the motostrelki and russian marines specs. The guards armoured spec is supposed to be the absolute to be the absolute of the line equipment.
If motostrelki gets the t-90m too i don't even see any point in picking guards armoured. All the flashy stuff is not worth the price hike since is it's only a bit more effective for a massive price hike.
I hope so. The singleplayer mission they added had T-67s in it, so they exist in game. I just want to play around with stuff like that.
>connected
>play game
>get out of game
>disconnected
Nice. Stats don't count when disconnected.
My masterpiece.
The core concept is that almost all infantry can be brought in via the 5 LAVs available and then combined with ATM and AD LAVs to move wide and fast around the main combat areas and flank, then deposit stealth infantry and AA all around the backline to be a menace.
The ATACMS are there so that I have something that can reach combat during a dive without needing to follow the LAVs in and most of the rest of the list is dedicated to providing options in case I need to hold ground or grind through a narrow urban zone.
The F18C is a cheap ASF I can call in at the start of the game to defend against helo/para rushes and the 18D just carries AGMs to compensate for how light the list is on artillery.
Played 2 games with it so far. Once you find an opening and get behind the frontline you just massacre enemy AA and supplies and then spam airstrikes to keep them from stabilizing. In the first game I managed to slip through right at the start and the other team quit by 20m. The second game I was stuck in doing urban combat for the first 30ish minutes before I managed to force a gap but afterwards a pair of LAV-ATMs in the backline caused their whole front to collapse
did i just play against you?
It's good to have a few IFAV M2. You can use them as tripwires at your flanks or send along an edge of the map at the start and then catch some undefended AA/artillery.
The M107 on Scout Snipers is a very strong upgrade.
SABER team is top attack, which is good in mirrors but bad against Russian tanks. Same with your LAV ATM.
Not having CAAT is crippling yourself hard.
Good job on getting the FEP, even some CBT players are still sleeping on it.
SHORAD is also a smart pick.
Even one LVSR is very rarely needed. I'd drop it and get more LAV-L. Dropping large stacks of supply is too risky.
It's good to have an AA helicopter or a cheap rocket gunship.
>top attack, which is good in mirrors but bad against Russian tanks
You're going to need to explain this one, bud.
Russian tanks have thick top armor (simulating cope cages), so it takes more top attack missiles for a kill than regular ones.
that's fricking moronic
anon the core of the russian mechanized infantry in this game relies on apc and ifv units that were literally never built irl, the whole thing is just a big joke
i mean yeah, a realistic usa vs a realistic russia would functionally be a one faction game
Actually, factually incorrect.
The most top KE armour any russian vehicle has is 80
TOW2Bs are 80 KE penetration
The KE penetration formula is 100% damage if your pen is = or greater than the target's KE armour.
TOW2Bs ignore the top armour of every russian vehicle and deal full damage to them.
This makes the LAV-ATM one of the best tank-killers in the game, and the Saber strictly better than the CAAT at killing hardened, high-value targets like tanks and the elite IFVs (though the CAAT is better at killing cheap APS platforms like Bradleys and Bumerangs).
For the record, Javelins are also top-attack though their stat page doesn't specify it, but their CE penetration is so high that they still perform well against the top armour of most tanks.
If you check ingame models it looks like it's because of ERA on top of the turret.
Especially with how Russian tanks have more heat armor than kinetic.
is it moronic to stack up a bunch of the TOW buggies, because that seems really funny to me
Stacking missiles lets you overpower APS. But it's better to use LAV because they can't be one shotted.
Russia feels stronger rn
Just me?
>reconnect...
>reconnect...
>reconnect...
Restart the game. Generally you connect quickly after logging on, but if you're in a session long enough to reconnect and get DC'd multiple times, you end up in limbo.
What graphics settings is everyone playing on so your gpu doesn't catch on fire?
I just don't zoom in
do they have to be in my aura, or do i have to be in theirs?
wrong game mate, but they have to be in yours.
oh whoops
thanks
It's very annoying that you can't queue a transport to drop its troops/supplies when you call it in.
>unit availability regenerates over time
god I hate this mechanic
I like that losing a unit the first time isn't instantly fatal, people quitting in rd because they lost their unicorn and they correctly recognized that they couldn't come back from that sucked ass. but also I'm completely with you, it feels so shitty to see somebody lose twenty super abrams or armatas or whatever.
idk if there's a middle ground.
I think that's more just an issue of having unicorn units in the first place tbh
Having standard equipment for militaries cost prohibitive amounts because of balance is moronic as well
I still have no idea how the wic guys managed to avoid it. it's probably inevitable in a game of rd or ba's scale and in ba's case with as many individual abilities as all the units have and as dumb as they are about doing anything effectively on their own. it's like a six step process to drop a laser guided artillery round, hard not to invest yourself in a unit you're babysitting 24/7
because in wic all the units were generic and incredibly boring.
>get the huge powerplant map
>take the wide open empty flank
>win early on and just walk forward since the guy lost too much to cover the wide front
>eventually have ATGMs lined up in forests along the road camping his spawn
>he quits
>spend then next 20 minutes bombing the rest of the map
heh
Played a decent amount of missions now.
Things I kinda don't like is how terrible normal infantry is, they're kinda just useless and it feels terrible to use them.
Also SEAD not being marked in any way is kinda bullshit. If you see a jet flying towards you, you have no way of knowing if you need to toggle your radar off or if you need to turn your radar on to stop their bombing run.
Third, line of sight seems fricking bizarre a lot of the time.
Fourth, the lack of sounds, notifications, and feedback in the UI is pretty bad. Also just confusing and tiny icons on stuff, it should be very easy to see your tank's health at a glance but it isn't. Shit keeps getting destroyed without me even knowing, one time I looked over to the other side of the map to see that I had inherited all of another player's shit without even knowing and it was getting ripped apart.
Pretty much agree with all points. The art style is great and the overall graphical fidelity is leaps and bounds over Eugen games, but the lack of clarity and responsiveness in the UI is really really rough right now. I'm not sure if the devs understand how much work the UI needs right now.
I've been trying to ferry infantry to the front in an mi-8 and it's literally deleting some of them when picking them up. I ordered it to pick up 4 units, 4 got in, but it only carried and dropped off 2.
>SEAD
Lol
Put cheap radar SPAAGs between the enemy and your SAMs and kill the SEAD craft
american arty spam is fricking moronic.
We still won.
But it wasn't very fun.
>"sead missiles automatically shoot at a radar signature"
>fly sead plane towards known position of AA with radar turned on (it just shot down a drone)
>sead missile doesn't fire
>plane is shot down by AA firing missiles at it
?
it works tho, see
AA can still fire without radar on.
At the risk of sounding like a brainlet, doesn't that make SEAD pointless? Turning the radar on and off is one thing, but not having to turn the radar on ever because the enemy airplanes are going to get detected and your AA will still shoot anyway seems off.
AA extends your range a lot. And it really helps with shooting down missiles too. If you have it on S300s can make pretty much the whole map no flying allowed.
Also i'm pretty sure s300s outrange SEAD.
But you can't tell when you're gonna get seaded so it's kind of just a shitty interaction.
Radar massively extends the range of missiles (as well as AA detection) and helps them defeat decoys. Radar AA like S-300s and Patriots are shockingly good at downing non-stealth planes when their radar is actually on. While it's off they'll only realistically kill planes that fly pretty much directly over them to strafe.
How Radar works is that it takes 10 seconds after toggling on to become effective. During these 10 seconds it's totally vulnerable. Once on, it can be toggled off instantly. Any SAED missile flying towards it will lose track when it turns off and miss, so that 10 seconds is the main targeting window assuming the AA player is paying attention.
The best way to perform SAED is the classic 'wild weasel' approach. Either wait for an ally to call in a strike plane and follow with your SAED plane, using the allied plane as bait for enemy radar AA. Or call in both planes yourself if you can afford it. Because upkeep increases proportionately with the total cost of units you have on the field, a player that wants to dedicate themselves to maximizing air presence can keep a leaner frontline relying more on infantry and cheap transports so they can afford to spam planes on cooldown. The US has a cheap and effective SAED plane in the Prowler, while the russians have to pay a lot more for the Felon to run its SAED missions.
Just bear in mind that an explicit weakness of SAED is that they automatically target the NEAREST radar source and only have around 100 HEAT penetration. This means hardened radar-guided SPAA like the Bradley M-SHORAD can screen SAED missiles for your backline SAMs
I usually run SEAD with the su25
really missing some kind of elint platform to know whether it's pointless to attempt an arm attack or not, the fact that all the aa in the game defaults to and works fine with radar off means tons of players never turn it on
If players are just never turning radar on you don't have to bother with SAED. An S-300 without radar literally can't kill an F-18 unless it basically flies straight over it. If the other side isn't using their radar you can just airstrike with near-impunity. Once you actually lose a plane you can bother with SAED, though once again if the other player is paying attention you might need to bait the radar with a wild weasel.
>people clearly are playing
>still no invite
If I get it monday, this game goes off my wishlist
they might have let you in
>check mail and Steam
>nothing
Check again
I'm officially IN!
Now to reshuffle my plans for the weekend for the third time
Great stuff. Now to see if my laptop can actually run it
ok so how does BA compare to warno? which is better and more fun
warno has more content and polish (obviously)
BA has more mechanics and isn't developed by mouthbreathing frogs
>buy helicopter full of infantry, place it on my side of the map (left side)
>it spawned on the farthest possible right side of the map (unbeknownst to me), flew directly over the enemy team trying to go left, and got shot down
the technology for marking the friendly and enemy spawn points on the map hasn't been invented yet
wait I just noticed there are microscopically tiny blue arrows on the almost invisible mini-map in the bottom corner. I guess technically it's not unlabeled then
Did they remove TOS-2? It was present in the closed beta.
It's part of the motostrelki division which isn't one of the divisions you can can choose in this playtest.
I drew a penis on the tactical map
best part of a match
One guy draws a dick, one more writes Black person, another draws a crude swastika, and one more draws an Amogus.
You're in good hands, these are Wargame veterans.
implessive
Yea, pretty much everyone who gives a shit about RTT games was expecting this one to drop for a while.
SP and MP focus, modding tools, custom user made content. It's gonna be kino.
>draw "spawn planes" in planning chat
>Number of people say "ok" or thumbs up
>No one spawns a single plane except me
It would be more convenient if they had a separate window, like in Wargame.
I like that the game doesn't have a billion units like the Wargame titles. I guess that aspect will get worse as time goes on though.
God bless customization. At first all those option seemed overwhelming for me but in comparison, that's much better than having to shuffle through multiple variants of the same unit, with our without ATGM, slightly upgraded armor, etc.
Oh there's a shitload of units, they just don't overwhelm you all at once, due to the dual specs.
How viable are clusters against infantry? Symbols suggest they're anti armor.
They don't do much less damage than explosive.
I don't know what they were thinking with vdv
The 5 man squads can't fricking beat ANYTHING
Not tanks at close range, not infantry, they can't take hits either.
Even the metis squad with the Kord does frick all (the metis is ok though)
Seems to be a common complaint, I reckon they'll be buffed soon or before release.
Infantry in general is pretty weak, the VDV are not uniquely effected here.
The VDV units all have the unique property of being airdropped, along with most of their native heavy equipment. This is why you see VDV air rushes at the start of matches where they drop distant capture points with cargo planes full of units. They have a whole roster of infantry, weapon teams and vehicles that can be paradropped. By comparison, the US currently can only paradrop Recon and Marine Raiders and their transport only has capacity for 1 LAV. This is part of why the VDV infantry explicitly are not as upfront strong as some of the other options like Ingenery. They come in small, airdrop-friendly squads and trade some specialization for general purpose equipment (ie the Igla squad carrying a grenade launcher and LMG). They also have the deckbuilding advantage of having cheap transport helicopters in the recon/infantry tabs that can be outfitted with rockets and/or ATGMs.
Though I do want to point out that the russian side has the unique advantage of the AGS weapon team squads. These are automatic grenade launcher teams with double the range of infantry small arms. Part of the reason the russians lack (and don't need) a unit like the Marine Raiders is that the AGS hard-counters building garrisons, and renders assault units functionally unnecessary.
Just make sure your VDV lists bring along the AGS-30 and Kornets teams. The Metis team is good because of its HMG, but the Metis itself gets outranged by vehicles so it's purely supplementary. You need Kornets to keep tanks from rolling up on you.
Avoid the Dsh unless you plan to spam 12 of them, as its just an Igla team but replaces the useful MANPADS with a grenade launcher. Single-shot grenades fire too slowly unless you mass a bunch of squads together (which incidentally means a huge mass of Dsh can be good even if individually they're weak, hence why you can bring so many).
How do you get planes to shoot mavericks?
Genuinely not sure. Once I ordered a bombing run and my plane dropped both the Mavericks and its bombs to great effect, but next time I ordered the same strike it only dropped its bombs, and when right clicking a target it bombed first, then dropped the mavericks on the second pass. Same with the strafe command.
Not sure how it works exactly or if you just have to avoid stacking different ordinance that use the same command.
I feel like such a brainlet playing this.
Never played any wargame before. How to git gud?
play on the frontlines to get your shit kicked in until you understand after a good amount of hours of play you'll understand whats going on
In simple terms:
These are vehicle games. Infantry is a speedbump and serves to slow down or deny space to vehicles. Infantry should always either be garrisoned in a building, hidden in a forest, or concealed behind a LoS blocker. The enemy will have to kill your infantry to move forward and this typically means exposing their own units, which you can then spot and kill with your own concealed firepower. Vehicles are generally bad at spotting, (especially hidden units) while infantry is good at spotting, so your meat should be out in front, and when advancing you should aim to leapfrog from concealed areas to concealed areas. Being out in the open means you're likely to get nailed by an airstrike.
Helicopters are incredibly good at killing vehicles from a distance but die very fast when they get too close. Control them manually to keep them spaced properly. Anti-air murders helis very effectively, so always bring plenty of AA infantry and keep them positioned to screen your line. Planes are harder to kill and require dedicated radar SAM sites
Indirect fire (artillery, cruise missiles, airstrikes) are good at deleting units that you spot out in the open, wiping massed attacks, suppressing or wiping clusters of infantry from covered positions without needing to go up and fight them directly, and playing Battleship with backline units and supplies (you can vaguely guess where they're hiding based on where the shots come from. They can also lay down smokescreens to cover a push.
All units carry limited ammo, some more limited than others. Units need to be resupplied to keep fighting. Supplies also repair vehicles and reinforce dead infantry slowly. Just stand in the circle. Be aware that supplies blow up when hit and are a prime artillery target, and also you can capture enemy supplies.
The singleplayer mission is good for teaching you various hotkey and specific unit controls, like how to control aircraft and order precision strikes.
Have anyone played around with mortars? It sure as shit seems like the 81mm mortars are absolute waste of points. They can barely plink away at the health of a 5-man weapons team if they're in a building, they can't damage vehicles in a meaningful way and they have such short range that they might as well be direct fire.
I keep trying to use them, but it feels like they're only good for laying down smoke or harassing.
On the flipside, I am absolutely laserpilled and I am on my smartbombmaxing arc. I fricking love scout teams on hold fire and sneaking them through enemy lines, then Excaliburing the frick out of whatever soft targets they spot and ATACMSing tanks
how does lasing work?
It can be very fricky with trees and various decorations and elevation seemingly magically blocking it, and the range of it is at best mad guesswork, but you get a laser designating unit like the Bradley FIST or scout snipers to lase a target.
You sadly can't lase the ground where you know a unit is, but if you lose LoS and the lase breaks after a missile has been launched, it will still hit the last known location. Treelines, hills and quiet "out of the way" highrises are worth their weight in gold.
>sneak up
>lase
>select your smart weapon-equipped vehicle such as M109 or HIMARS
>tell it to use a laser guided shell for the M109, right-click attack for the HIMARS
>for planes, it needs to be equipped with JSOW or smartbombs, tell it to precision strike a target
>watch it go away
I frickin love mortars. Yea, they're mostly for smoke and soft targets though. Smoke is invaluable and people don't seem to use it much. No units can see through it, it's very nice.
I can't drop the sneaking suspicion that this game is damaging my GPU.
I bought the whole graphics card, I'm gonna use the whole graphics card.
But no, I don't think that's even possible.
Pro-tip.
Infantry in buildings get fricked up if you drop a smart bomb or Excalibur shell on them.
nothing is as incredible in this game as watching some poor fricker lose 1200 points of infantry to a single suicide plane bombing run
Happened to me once. Entire tank platoon wiped by a TU-60.
>when my barely-sapient teammates open the game by sending their jets at their jets instead of the transports
>and their jets survive and break through
>both my ospreys with all 1000 starting points get reassignment surgery because they now identify with asphalt
Anyone up for a few games?
>"guise we fixed the servers"
>get DCd 10 seconds into the game
game is unfricking playable right now
keep getting disconnected every single game
Favorite maps?
played a few matches, seems pretty fun, howewer the ui is pretty confusing, a lot of mechanics are currently unexplained and i have already encountered either a game breaking bug or a cheater. There is a invisible moving radiation zone/ bermuda triangle that melts every unit that enters it.
Unfortunately I am a moron so I didn't manage to set up my recording before enemy got there so the most obvious examples were not documented. In this one the hind starts melting and only gets finished off by the IFV
what are you graphic settings?
After your post and rewatching my clips I think that you are right and this was T-15 which tracers are invisible unless the vehicle itself is spotted
My settings are on medium settings basically everywhere
The second one is more obvious, look at the armata and tell me what killed it
Probably that 57mm SPAA fantasy vehicle the russians get sitting in the treeline behind you, being unspotted as your armata has damaged optics (yellow binoculars icon)
this may be possible, however during this match i (and my team)have lost at least 4 hinds, 7 units of infantry, 4 transports, an artillery piece and another tank(these are the ones i noticed) all of them died in the same way (no shots fired,
no impact explosions, health decreasing rapidly) the aa would surely run out of ammo.
Speaking of can you see shots fired from unseen enemy like in wargame? (i know missiles are always visible)
whack
yeah, you can always see gunfire, but it is far more subtle than warno (laser fire) or wargame (laser fire)
on my potato settings i often have to zoom way in to see suspected small arms fire, or even just fricking artillery shells
Both units died to the T-15 Barbaris in the treeline.
Helicopters have very light armour and die rapidly to ground-based HMG and autocannon fire if they get to close, especially when flying low. The key is that their ATGMs have enormous range, so they don't have to get into danger range to engage these targets. Don't Q-move helicopters into danger. Instead, move them into a position where they have clear LoS of the intended target (check LoS with alt) and let them fire on what they can see. If you want to right click a target, first make sure you have line of sight, then be sure to disable their gun so that they don't fly up and try to use it over their ATGMs (this is buggy behaviour hopefully they fix for the full game). Helis don't want to get close.
As for the Armata, you were at an angle relative to the Barbaris, exposing your side armour. The game doesn't simulate angular deflection, and the 240mm KE penetration of the 57mm Autocannon is enough to punch through the 150mm of the T-14 Fantasy's side armour. Vehicles will automatically target the best armour panel they have LoS on, if you had straightened your tank to only show the front to the T-15 Fiction's autocannon wouldn't have been able to penetrate it.
In the first clip, the Fiction kills your heli without being spotted and thus remains unseen. In the second clip, the Sasquatch is initially looking at your Yeti and turns its turret to engage the heli, causing the heli to survive long enough to reveal it briefly before dying. Because the mythical creature is hiding in its enchanted forest, your fantastical beast's damaged optics don't have enough range to detect it without first getting closer.
This is why you usually want to advance behind a screen of recon infantry, whose natural stealth and good optics allow them to spot threats before they are spotted. Units are concealed when their icon has a green shield, and your cursor has a little forest icon on terrain that conceals units.
>town with the town in the centre
>my mate and I say we're going middle
>succefully repel their recon and the first wave
>the other 3 lobotomites frick up to take either of the two flanks
>forget taking, they can't even cover our flanks
>they proceed to leech the supplies I put down for my long range AA
AT LEAST MAKE THE CHAT A NORMAL POPUP INSTEAD OF A WINDOW, I WANT TO DUNK ON THESE SUBHUMANS
not my problem
Nice patriots. Shame if something were to happem to them...
I got tired of getting zergged by air rushes every game and teammates not bringing their own planes to contest it so I put together a list that can open the game with triple ASF. Let's see if I can actually win the skies.
I've never seen a successful air rush.
95% of my games last the whole duration.
Most of the time that I'm on the receiving end of it, the game doesn't end immediately, the other side just uses it to immediately grab the median points and secure a good forward position that we will then spend the entire game trying to break.
Report with results:
3 planes were able to successfully intercept their airdrops and trade up in kills (downed an F-18 and F-35 (with the fricking gun), 2 more F-18s escaped when I ran out of ammo, lost 1 jet). There's definitely an advantage to having 1 player control multiple jets instead of having 1 players with 1 each.
Afterwards I was able to airdrop in my own army with the refund from recalling the planes, because everyone else's planes were on cooldown. Ended up getting into position around the same time as everyone else.
Only issues are that the cost of putting so much air-to-air in the deck means I have almost nothing left over to actually use that air supremacy. I tried to have the russian stealth jet run SAED and every time it either found nothing, or got shot down by a radar-active SAM while repeatedly failing to target it and fire a missile. If I cut the cargo plane I could probably fit a proper precision bomber but then it would be much harder to deploy after the opening air battle. Gonna have to workshop a little but the proof of concept is there.
ban all Black folk with cyrillic names from lobbies. they're the worst players ive seen in my life. i cannot begin to describe how bad they are
i find it immensly funny that all of them only play as russia too
>lategame
>we're obviously winning with no way for the enemy team to push us back
>get bored, start sneaking my M109s closer to where one chud is spamming ATACMs
>get closer
>get closer
>take some shots
>notice that i've accidentally flanked my m109s into their backline
>start trying to hide them, hoping they didn't notice
>see an osprey approaching
>oh no
>it's still approaching
>it comes directly towards the treeline where the paladins are hiding
>they start shooting
>completely forgot Paladins have M2s on them
>they fricking shoot down the osprey, planting who knows how many squads into the ground
>chuckle to myself at this funny circumstance
>three minutes later, notice they're under attack again, pan back
>two vipers are right on top of them
>within the minimum range of their rockets and hellfires
>it's a gunfight between two vipers and three m109s
>they fricking win
TRVE GDS OF WⱯR
Sounds a bit like
f16 chan when?
F-35Chan took her place.
When we get other specializations.
Big thread, will post my random first impressions after about 20 games
Overall like what I am seeing but needs work. This is constructive criticism
Core Gameplay / Design
>Infantry are either too weak or too expensive + unavailable. They die too fast to be useful in the numbers they are given to you. The only exception is ATGM and AA infantry. There is little Inf vs. Inf combat which is disappointing because that would be fun.
>Infantry should probably be made cheaper and with better short-range RPG performance
>Tank Blobs of Supermaxx Upgraded Frick-You Tanks rule the day, they pack so much firepower that they overwhelm anything other than equal tank blobs
>Tank Blobs are made a little worse by how expensive Air is, which limits counterplay
>That said, some Artillery units are very strong, particularly ATACMS and similar
>RADAR AA (PATRIOT, S-300) are EXTREMELY strong, but so is SEAD. I guess it works, but it is crazy to have planes shot down so far away
>Genuinely hate the 'On Foot' option, guess I need to be more careful but I keep accidentally spawning guys on foot because I can't afford the 2nd transport. Some user error here but it's awful feeling
>Some other unit prices seem too high, namely Air
UI / UX + Bugs
>Need 'Unload at Location' from unit spawn, to unload guys in buildings and get supplies dropped off ASAP
>LoS tool doesn't work properly, or LoS doesn't work properly, or both. This needs to be refined as sometimes the mouse-over shows an enemy is in-range and in-sight but your unit doesn't fire
>Have had a consistent problem where units do not follow commands. Seems to be when you hit a hotkey then mouse click too fast. So Q+Click too fast and the command doesn't register.
>"Unit is moving to" arrows would be a big help to see where and how things are moving.
>Some design choices are very counter-intuitive, i.e. having to hit 'P' instead of 'T' for certain artillery, having to hit 'Bombing Run' vs. 'Strafe' on planes
>Performance obviously shit
i agree with 100% of this and would also add it would be really nice to be able to take two different loadouts of the same base unit like an AA f-35 and a anti-ground f-35 in the same deck. i also think i kind of would like the game to give you slightly more income so everyone had a bigger army. not necessarily double but like, 25% more? it just feels a little bit sometimes like you hit someone with a good push or artillery strike and then they just have no units left on the field. it works in a 5v5 situation sometimes when other people can fill in but in anything smaller idk how the current income levels are gonna work.
Your base income is stupidly high (500 per min) and decreases based on how much point value your units on the field amount to (as a % of the total point value of your deck). So when you get wiped you can have a decent army back on the field in around 2 minutes. Obviously you won't be as huge as the folks who wiped you but you can still amass enough to credibly hold ground or stall a push. Notable, it also means that a player with a smaller army is able to call in airstrikes more often
fair enough, i like the system where your income decreases the more units you have out / alive, but in my opinion base points / availabilities are too low so your max realistically achievable army is too small for my tastes
basically in my humble opinion i would like all players to have slightly more units on the field versus how it is now
I agree with most of this however
>Tank Blobs are made a little worse by how expensive Air is
If you minmax your planes you can get very powerful airstrikes down to 200-300 points, most of which you refund if the plane rtb's safely. The F-35 can be a precision bomber for around 280, and for dumb munitions you can use the old planes and they can level a city for like 220 as long as there's no AA around. The planes all just start with awful builds and require tinkering to be good
>Patriot, S-300
The former is extremely strong but the latter is not. While there's some asymmetry here, the reality is that the S-300 is so bad it's not even worth running SAED missions against russia, while the Patriot is so good that it's hard to run SAED without your plane just dying. Apparently the Patriot sucked in the closed beta so they may have just overcompensated. AA in general is all over the place balance wise.
>On Foot
It's genuinely bugged. If you click too fast, it'll sometimes separate units instead of spawning them in together, or can just fail to spawn the transport and refunds you.
>LoS
Is extremely inconsistent. Sometimes direct-fire weapons and shoot clean across a forest and other times they need to literally run over a unit to start firing.
>units not following commands
There's two issues here. Units regenerate their waypoint queue whenever you click, which causes them to stop what they're doing and re-evaluate. If you click too much, or too frequently, they can just get stuck in place while they figure shit out. It seems like there's some backend here that's getting gummed up. The other is just commands being dropped--which I think might be a server/connection issue. I've only had it happen in laggy rooms.
Otherwise spot on. I hope the devs are getting feedback to this effect but I don't even know where you're supposed to go to do that.
it doesn't seem like much but the extra couple hundred meters for switching from the 4 tube s-300 to the 2 tube has made a big difference in my experience. I use upgraded tors for abm defense anyway
A lot of the russian helis and planes are covered in pylons that cannot be left empty. It's kinda bullshit.
Fricking 100 point vikhr pods on the Su-25T you can't really safely use if there's so much as a single stinger around and can't dismount.
>Tank Blobs of Supermaxx Upgraded Frick-You Tanks rule the day, they pack so much firepower that they overwhelm anything other than equal tank blobs
Helis rip em apart.
>Some other unit prices seem too high, namely Air
Air is priced with the idea that you're gonna be refunding them.
I just tried this. Not only does it make them dirt cheap, but they also absolutely shred everything launched on half the map, thanks anon.
>Helis rip em apart.
Lmao
It takes like 60 seconds and the majority of a hellfire loadout to kill one modern tank with APS
A heli can take out 3 top tier tanks with fire and forget missiles (that's most of what a player will even have) before needing to go back and restock.
-4 missiles from APS, tanks 3 hit, 8 missiles
>Playing burgercels
>Having 0 ground forces
>helis rip em apart
Last night I played a match where one of the enemy players saved up his points for like 15 minutes and then spent it all on ABRAMS SEP V2/V3. He had like 6 or 7 tanks or something that he drove forward in a blob. It took 3 KA-52s and 1 Mi-35 with ATGMS to kill this blob over the course of like, 5 minutes. In the mean time this guy killed almost every unit we had on our side of the map with his blob.
APS is so fricking strong. You basically ignore 2-4 missiles and whatever damage you might have taken. I see no reason to ever buy a tank or an IFV in this game without APS so long as it remains like this. I was frustrated with my tanks getting killed so easily until I realized that APS is a mandatory feature
In general, helis have less range than mobile AA like SHORADs or LAV-AD which absolutely wall your helis from contributing against a tank mass, and since AD is so cheap it's unlikely you're going to be able to snipe it and capitalize in a cost-effective way.
The main value of helis, aside from being able to occasionally cheese a vehicle snipe through an unintended AA gap, is to have a backline unit that can respond quickly to flanks or backline drops. I tried a bunch of different setups with them: ATGMs, mass rockets, SAED missiles, Air-to-air. Helis are always outranged by AA, and thus always zoned out from contributing unless your opponent just like, forgets to bring a cheap AA unit along.
AA is not very plentiful, you snipe out AA and create gaps in their air defense. It's unlikely that tanks pushing over open ground are going to remain covered without AA making itself vulnerable, remember the missiles are fire and forget, you can immediately frick off.
Anon LAV-ADs are like 100 points apiece.
The majority of mobile AA is a fraction of a cost of a heli. If they choose not to bring any that's just a new player making a poor choice.
A ka-52 with 12 vikhrs is 250 points and can 1v1 AA units, and wipe out multiple 350+ point trophy tanks, that's 1 250 point unit. They're actually extremely cost effective vs that zerg rush he sent at you.
I just want motostrelki. They have all the good shit.
Agreed, I miss muh Kama. And I want BMP-3’s
And the S350
Is there a track to using the range preview when you target enemies? When I'm hovering over a vehicle with, say, an ATGM squad, it will list the range and LoS of the squad's ARs instead. And I don't get the indicator at all for tanks or various other armoured vehicles--which is seriously annoying because tank LoS is so finnicky as it is.
Is there really no chat?
Something interesting to take note of. In the current beta we only have 2 specialization options for each faction. Both factions have 1 specialization that includes no heli or aircraft whatsoever, and one that includes aircraft and helis. In Russia's case, the VDV serves as their 'air specialist' group out of the 5 planned for release, while the US is planned to get an Airborne brigade specialization that will presumably be their air-focused deck.
This means in the full game, the player will have access to roughly double the amount of aircraft and helicopters that they currently do. You might even be able to play a backline support deck where you keep your upkeep low and just spam SAED and airstrikes all match.
People really wanted strike decks to work in the wargame series but they never really did. Unless ba busts out of the gate with a pretty good 10v10 scene anybody who's "the strike guy" is probably just a direct handicap to the team, though not nearly as bad because they don't need to ragequit when their package gets roughly handled. btw you want DEAD, not SEAD. SEAD is suppression, you can't suppress shit in this game, nobody cares if their units die and even if they did the radar cycle time is so fast that one loitering arm equipped plane can't force an opening for other airpower
Yeah that's a good point actually
SEAD
Suppression of Enemy Air Defense
Holy shit this has annoyed me, stop misspelling it
Sneed's Feed & SEAD
This shit rapes.
I thought it was a bug at first. A 4 shot ATGM volley? From one cheap vehicle? Holy shit that's kinda cool.
The vatnik ATGM teams with two launchers are surprisingly deadly
The USMC ATGM team has dual frickin .50 cal HMGs.
You can say what you want about how the devs used to be a mean as frick Wargame clan, but they ain't stingy toward the US.
Atgms are good at what they do. Anytime you can volley them to overwhelmed APS they frick. APS vehicles are so expensive.
Spamming Cavalry Scouts in the recon bradley is so frickin good lol
tankcels just came compete with all this top attack
do you think they'll be dumb enough to give strykers crows-j
I have become completely infantrypilled. You can have so much coverage around the map, so much vision, and still be able to hold ground because a few ATGM squads are much more difficult to deal with than vehicle-mounted ones.
Meme tank pushes suck because the tanks just get ground down from attrition as they force through infantry speedbump. But tanks take so much supply and time to repair that they don't get a chance as long as their flanks are vulnerable. They just get stuck in, kill some cheap infantry, run out of gas and slowly get picked off or retreat and hug a crate for the next few minutes. A push is far more likely to succeed if you inch forward with recon and supporting infantry to steadily blind them, zone their armour out with indirect fire and creeping ATGM teams, and eventually just storm their position with bodies.
whats the best counter to the vdv wave spam at the start
Fill your air tab with cheap fighters and call 1 in at the start. If it spots a swarm of enemy planes or transports, spend the rest of your starting funds to call in the rest of your fighters. You'll refund most of them after the initial air battle and can just heli your own units to the front while everyone's planes are on cooldown.
For the US, the F-18C can make a cheap and efficient fighter for 225 funds. You basically just give it a set of AMRAAMS and it's default sidewinders. The F-35 also comes with AMRAAMs and is pretty cheap at 280, so you can build it like a bomber and still call a few in at the start to help win the air battle.
For the russians, you can make a similarly cheap fighter from the Su-30M and a pair of complimentary missiles but the rest of your multirole fighters are expensive so you kind of have to pick between going all in on air superiority or bringing some bombers.
If they're jumping out of an IL76 you could buy an opening plane or two to try and shoot the transport down then sell your planes when you're done. Planes can also shoot at helicopters if they have missiles that target helis
At last I realize that buks are way better at stopping HIMARS than S300s, they're dirt cheap too.
I took two cards of himars and two cards of m270 with atacms, do what you must the missile is getting through
I mean. I have s300s too. I can have that many missiles firing off pretty easy.
Honestly though i suspect 2 buk might actually be able to deal with 4 launchers
>join game
>match found instantly
>no time to select deck
>get served the shitty default deck
ENOUGH!
you can still choose your deck in the map voting screen.
>assign unit to a control group
>double press number key for that group
>camera does not move but simply points downwards at current location
How did they frick this up?
>no ctrl button grouping
>its shift instead
wtf
>Frontiers map
>me and this other guy on my team spent the entire match sneaking Razvedka recon through the forests and backline of the enemy
>spotting enemy supply dumps, ATACMS launchers, and one patriot battery, hunting them down with helicopters and VDV squads sneaking through the trees
>totally bully them off the right side of the map, eventually our map control means they can't approach any of the objectives anymore without being spotted
holy fricking KINO alert.
I forgot to write in my post because I was feeling giddy after that match but this game is very cool. It feels amazing to play when everything is coming together just right and it's the reason why I'm willing to tolerate all of these moronic bugs and problems. I don't know what you guys think overall but I'm not disappointed with what I've experienced so far even though there's some big issues for them to work on like the UI.
yeah I agree, this seems to be the consensus generally, im expecting great things from this game, they better not frick it up
I dont mind the game using health bars but frick a Javelin should be able to 1shot a fricking MLRS like a HIMARS
>game using health bars
>into the trash
anything with health bars is fricking trash, what a bunch of lazy c**ts
Every game uses healthbars, and that includes realistic ones.
At least they're not french.
Scout sniper laser range is so fricking tiny, they can't laser anything without being spotted themselves. Shouldn't laser have infinite range and require LOS?!
Not true, their stealth is fricking insane, you just have to disable their weapons so they don't reveal themselves.
>join game
>half of all players DC
>game ends with 2 and 1 person on each team respectively
>after getting back into the menu the game is bugged and can only be force closed
This game is in alpha state at best
>micro a unit on left flank
>lose all units on right flank and vice versa
skill issue?
>dodges 3 missiles from su57
>proceeds to kill su57
heh, nothin personnel stealth jets
Do you afterburn to turn harder?
yes
>russian bias
>play as russia
>lose to america
You guys lied to me
Well the devs seem to think that russia would at any point field T14s and T15 when in reality its picrel
Who cares whether they fielded something or not? It's a video game.
On the US side you have unicorn like Bradley SHORAD.
The amount of americans that are incensed that old US equipment is even in the game as an OPTION is beyond belief. They're fricking deranged.
Is there some insane desync in this game? Why do I just lose units completely randomly to nothing at all? What the frick is happening
You can't see enemy units shooting at you unless you spot them. They become slightly easier to spot while shooting you, but it doesn't necessarily mean they'll reveal themselves outright.
There's an explanation of stealth/spotting in the game's manual and a quick breakdown here:
I know about spotting mechanics, i kept searching the area constantly with helis and shit. Everything just kept randomly exploding. One of my teammates was also sitting on a capture zone for like 20 minutes and it never captured, just stayed on neutral. Either theres desync or the americans have stealth uniforms.
A friend of mine suspects its desync.
PSA: The game has really bad desync issues right now, sometimes usually about halfway through the game the desync can get so bad that:
>You can get killed by invisible units
>You can't target visible units
>You can't DAMAGE visible units (like, at all)
Basically some games work okay but other games are essentially completely broken, just be aware that can happen
It is also possible that you were getting memed by a stealth sniper squad with the anti-materiel rifle; or getting hit with artillery and not noticing it because sometimes the artillery trails are pretty subtle and hard to see
However I just had a game where the desync was so bad that my units literally could not do any damage. The server was just not registering any hits. I was well and truly out of the game
I just had a game where desync hit after 3 minutes. After a successful helo landing after managing to snipe my opponent's harvest hawk down, my landed squads just melted away from nothing.
Yep, had the same issue in that match. Units seem to have just been slowly meltind and the enemies that I could see, I couldnt damage
A friend of mine suspects its stealth uniforms.
>have to restart after every single game
>stinger team misses 2 out of 3 shots
>out of missiles
>helicopter still alive
Recon ATGMs and MANPAD squads should have their ammo buffed from 3 to 4
*laughs in double igla*
Javelins have low ammo on purpose for balance reasons, because a stealth spotter squad with long range ATGMs is crazy strong. The low ammo means you can't just sneak them into the enemy spawn and camp incoming vehicles all game. it encourages you to keep Cavalry Scouts with their Cavalry so they can cycle back to a supply point periodically.
I think limited ammo like that is a pretty sensible way to balance things. It lets Javelins feel strong while still having limits the other side can play around.
>restart 20 times until its finally online
>in searching: 700000
>matches never start
Putting the broken back into broken arrow
How to use laser guide weapons? I had an opportunity to target a tank, laser was on but the spg didn't want to shoot laser guided weapons. I disabled regular ones and mg and it didn't nothing when ordered to attack.
little shell icon (fire mission I think?), and the right option on the top row will tell them to fire guided shells
Starting to think there needs to be a tangible incentive to pushing before the five minute mark. Most games seem to go 10 minutes of push/settle to equilibrium, 40 minutes of accumulation and gentle probing, then 5 minutes of prep, then 5 minutes of all out blitz as both teams try to get the point advantage in the last few seconds. if you blitz early the opposing team just shits on you and then you can't win the climax. If your midgame rubbing phase results in a victory the enemy was so far below you in skill that you probably couldn't have lost at all
Folks play slow because they're new to the game, there are a lot of units to manage and actually playing is pretty complex. Fighting is faster/more intense with two groups of competent players--I've watched a couple streams where premades face off--and there's definitely a worth to taking ground and denying your opponent ground, but it's just not immediately obvious why territory not surrounded by a coloured square matters to new players and they'll be slow to move out of fear of blundering their army away in a bad push and play overtly cautiously until the closing minutes--not because they need to push to win but because preserving the integrity of their army no longer matters.
People clearly understand that they will win or lose based on the end state of the squares. They just seem to recognize that unless you think the enemy is dumb/weak enough to force completely off the map early, the smart move is to wait until the last possible moment and use overwhelming force to dislodge the enemy, capture the winning number of points, then simply sit tight for (ideally) less than a minute until the victory screen pops up. This offers the least possibility for counterplay over the course of a sixty minute match and stands the highest degree of success against two teams of equal skill.
the game being decided on the end-state only of the squares is truly dumb, there should be a points ticker based on how many points you control full-stop
it feels bad both ways. either someone saves up a gorillion points to do a frick-you rush at the end and it works and it kinda feels cheap and gamey, or someone on your team does the same thing and fails and it pisses you off because they could have been scrapping and trading all game
either way i think it doesn't quite work
I've yet to see a last minute push actually succeed.
Actually I just had a game that demonstrated why this is wrong.
Fight was a stalemate in the center of the map after an early push. I noticed the had a tonne of artillery shelling us, so I made a move with a tank, 2 IFVs and an SPAA on a wide flanking maneuver. Caught all of their HIMARs, MLRS and Patriots and took up a position behind their home point, which cut off reinforcements and allowed my ally to force through the front and take the point.
The enemy team was winning an artillery duel because we weren't pressuring them. When we started to pressure them, they had too much artillery to cover their position, their line folded and we won well before the final timer.
If you don't apply pressure, the other side can just spam indirect fire and shell you to death. If you apply pressure, distribute your forces and look for openings then you exact a huge cost on the other side just matching your actions. You don't have to grind against the point; the other side has a limited number of AT teams to preposition so if you keep scouting you're eventually going to find a weak spot you can press and flank.
Finding a game is so tiresome
>auto join lobby (because normal join doesnt work)
>russian names
>quit lobby
>repeat 200 times
racist
>displaying k/d in a team game
How do i find an actual match in this game? Whenever i auto join i either get kicked or the other players never ready up.
this looks neat but I'm in the Land of the Lost right now, let me know if it ends up being worth a damn+pro-strats for trolling deranged NAFO homosexuals with Russia
>phew, so glad i managed to save my abrams, time to fix it up
the disconnect shit is REALLY pissing me off
Hot take; I think the generic infantry problem can be solved by giving them another Short range anti tank user and a single shot of a long range ATGM/Javelin. Also give the AA squads an LMG.
>entire team of mouthbreathers sits on 1 point
>enemy team takes all the other points on the map
>team continues sitting on their 1 point
Be a hero 🙂
After playing a bunch I'm seeing basically 3 main deck archetypes/roles you can take in a match. You've got infantry decks that just put a load of meat on the board. Good for holding ground and grinding through urban areas. Most often these are the guys coming in on an airlift or a dozen helicopters at the start of a match. There's value in meat, and I think a lot of folks underestimate just how annoying infantry can be when you have a lot of cheap squads in forests or city blocks. The downside is that there's a big deckbuilding cost with spamming enough infantry, so you'll typically lack ground transports for mobility.
You've got vehicle decks. Pretty simple. You mass tanks and supporting vehicles and try to make plays using mobility. Russia can spam cheap tanks and the US can spam APS bradleys with a few expensive tanks to support--bradleys are so incredibly good. Once again there's a high deckbuilding cost in making sure you have enough combat-effective ground transports and fast-moving recon so you can use mobility well.
And you have support decks that mostly focus on artillery, and who will probably get most of the kills in a match. Having 1 player focusing on artillery increases your odds of winning drastically since you need to spend so much attention to manage counterbattery fire and supply well.
Theoretically I think air-oriented support decks could be viable but the beta doesn't have the right options available to make it worthwhile right now, though VDV air rushes show the kind of potential there.
>Most often these are the guys coming in on an airlift or a dozen helicopters at the start of a match. There's value in meat, and I think a lot of folks underestimate just how annoying infantry can be when you have a lot of cheap squads in forests or city blocks.
Big problem with that is if you want to rotate them back you going to have to babysit them and put them in transports manually, otherwise retreating will take ages
Some transports are big enough for multiple squads, which is handy when you need to relocate. Just off the top of my head there's a russian APC that can fit 15 soldiers and most helis can fit several squads. The US has the absolute clown car that is the AAVP with its 21 passenger capacity. But yeah in general infantry lacks mobility and babying transports can be micro-intensive.
This game is so unfinished it will take at least a year for it to be playable.
There is no way they will be able to add all the promised stuff in time.
Anon....all the units are already finished. The campaign was made with the editor tools that's packaged with the game.
It's Joever Wargamesissies..... Eugene lost
If any of these guys was an anon playing US on that island map, you just put up a great fricking game with a lot of back and forth on the island map
There's nothing more satisfying than winning the opening air battle of the match, refunding your planes and then rolling up a big mechanized column market-garden style to support where your allies paradropped.
Giganoob here, never even played Wargame MP.
How do I know I'm building a deck that isn't total ass?
Pic related is my first draft but I feel like a headless chicken.
>2 shorad feels like very little
>smaw and lav-at might be worthless
>unsure if atacams, cluster or prsm
F-35 has jsow, hornet is ASF with sidewinder and amraam, harrier is firebomb an napalm
Somehow the deck feels super lean in options
I might want to go cheaper on the helis and cut the hellfire complement in half or entirely on the supercobra adding a transport.
I'd go ahead and ditch the other MLRS, HIMARS is unironically goated.
Bring a full stack of Cav scouts.
Other than that, it's mostly down to personal preference.
That was actually really useful. Dropping the MLRS opened up the support a ton.
I will, when I finally manage to get into a game.
>himars
gets intercepted before it can hit anything
You take it into battle and test it. Dumb clap Black person.
For the most part, there are so few bad units that it's hard to make a bad list.
For improving this:
You don't necessarily need a transport for every single squad, since some squads are small enough (and transports big enough) that multiple can ride in a single unit. And since humvees are basically just to move a unit to the front from spawn, you're usually going to send them back to base after they've dumped their squad.
Cav scouts and Forcon are both fantastic. The BFIST is kind of niche, you probably only want 1 of them.
Marine Raiders are the best infantry in the game. You should definitely try to max them out. Since they are an awkwardly large squad, be sure to bring enough AAVPs for all of them. You will very often have all 4 deployed just because they're so good at what they do.
SMAWs are kind of not great. Maybe consider a pair of CAAT Dragons instead. They're a hybrid squad with 2 ATGMs and 2 HMGs so they're effective against everything and saturate APS to make your other AT teams more effective.
Consider making room for at least 1x of the FEP Abrams. It's the only US tank with HE shells, which makes it handy for clearing infantry out of buildings.
Your air stuff is too expensive. One heli should be an ATGM carrier. It doesn't need a lot of them because it only takes a few shots to kill a take from a huge distance, then it can just go resupply. The other should be a rocket platform for close support. Aim to keep both below 200 cost, especially because your tanks will be a huge point sink. For your Hornet, try to keep its cost below 300. They don't need a tonne of missiles and ammo because the cooldown is super fast when you rtb them, so they only need to carry enough to kill a specific target and withdraw. Hornets come with a set of Sidewinders for free.
AAAAAAAAAAAGH HE'S GONNA FLOOOONK
Anyone else feel like the UI is really bad and that some units (especially the TU-160) are really unresponsive? My TU-160 simply didn't respond to orders to do a bombing run, I often had artillery that would not carry out their fire missions, and the UI is not like bold enough to be able to tell at a glance what is going on. I've won all the games I've played thus far but I never really felt like I had much situational awareness in them.
>My TU-160 simply didn't respond to orders to do a bombing run
Did you have high drag bombs, low drag bombs, or missiles of some sort?
High drag bombs can only be dropped with a bombing run at low altitude. Low drag bombs only at high (default) altitude. Precision munitions use precision strikes (which I don't think have a button, use p key).
There needs to be feedback (e.g. telling you what munitions will be used when you select a delivery method) but the basics of the UI are fine. The big thing is the game explaining the three things I just mentioned, not UI
The Tu is just really buggy. It uses the same pathing as paradrops, meaning it needs almost the entire map in leadup space to align its run or else it will break off and loop around again without dropping, but won't loop around far enough to actually align itself and gets trapped in a loop. This is especially annoying with its cruise missiles since they're a fire and forget weapon, so it shouldn't even have pathing problems.
Yeah, I was using the cluster missiles, and my plane did this, just kept looping infinitely.
>left alone 3v1 on one side of the map while 4 players push the other side
>after my teammates push all the way, they just fricking sit there instead of peeling off to help
Fricking christ fighting outnumbered is so miserable.
not my problem
It is your problem when we lose.
Uh oh stinky!!!!!!
it turned out there was a LAV that I didn't see and it almost killed my KA-52 but I got out of range with a little bit of health left + the patriot and atacams killed. After this happened the guy parked LAVs next to his patriots for the entire rest of the game, which is probably a smart idea but his team had already hard lost by this point because they had 0 map control and were trapped in their spawn
tanks are way to strong vs everything. I think the weapon ranges are way 2 small like the ka-52 needs to nearly fly ontop tanks to shoot them. The game plays really bad, infantry needs to play a bigger part instead of just rushing around with tanks with no worries
>rushing around with tanks no worries
Unironic, unfettered and undeniable skill issue
US tank rushes aren't a big deal because they're individually so expensive while being equally vulnerable to all the tank-killers. It's kind of silly that you can zone out like 1500 points worth of US armour with two ATGM teams, but every moment they spend NOT being able to push is more time for airstrikes to pick them apart, since every tank lost to a precision strike sets them back like 360 points.
Russian tank spam is genuinely a problem, though. T-80s with APS and stock T-90s are so cheap that you can genuinely mass a horde of them and just push like a fricking monkey. It doesn't matter if you lose a few because they cost as much as IFVs. Even wrecking a whole column doesn't help much because they'll have 6 more tanks ready in a few minutes. The issue here is just that tank counters are either limited in quantity (ATGM squads, air strikes) or expensive (helis) so cheap tanks you can spam easily hit a critical mass where they overwhelm limited counters and out-eco expensive ones. Because at the end of the day a 170 point T-90 is still a tank with like a thousand points of frontal armour and 210 point T-80 is still going to make you waste ATGMs against its APS before you can get through.
Armour can be countered in several ways. The player will obviously spend more income on his tanks than support relative to you, so you should have an advantage in one or preferably more areas such as AA, recon, infantry and mortars. This goes for both factions.
My preferred tactic to hit russian tank pushes is as many AT teams I can stack up without them getting splash damaged. Put them all in one building, and they all get panicked simultaneously and won't fire. Then focus-fire them down, with all four CAAT or TOW teams firing at the same target, you should knock out at least four tanks rendering them ineffective in pushing, if not their entire thrust entirely.
If that doesn't work, obviously helicopters. Parking them at low altitude looking down a street between highrises is optimal, as they're physically incapable of being hit by supporting AA and have clear lines of fire down the road
Then you have cluster artillery, or if you didn't bring cluster and just brought HE, fire way in front of them or where you know they will encounter your infantry so they'll all get stunned while fighting, forcing them to retreat or be destroyed.
The panic button are airstrikes, but at the point of tank pushes, SAM sites will be so prevalent I rarely find it worth it. Russian armour can be more numerous, but have far worse optics and will get butchered going against entrenched ATGM teams. Mutt tanks are more capable, and their M2s can easily take down helis if they get within their 800m range, but are so much more expensive than even knocking out one or two can account for ~10 minutes of average income.
tl;dr tanks aren't OP, cope & seethe
You're wrong on basically every point, damn.
Anywho most of the issues with massed tanks is that systems being buggy or janky make counters less effective in practice than in theory. It's trivial to frick over the LoS of ATGM teams and helis and the US sorely lacks a credible close range AT tool (AT4s aren't effective against tanks) to punish tanks for massing through close-quarters environments where better options struggle with LoS. You can literally barrel entire tank columns blind through forests because they naturally block all outside LoS from firing and disrupt the lasing for guided bombs. It sounds moronic, and it is moronic, but it works. Marines sucking your tailpipe at 50m blow their AT4s for 2 damage and die. ATGMs, helis tanks and whatever else watching the treeline can't fire at you even if you're spotted, artillery can't lead moving targets and precision munitions get screwed because trees break lasing. It shouldn't work but it does, because the game has issues that need fixed.
Text book Skill issue.
Anyone else having issues with artilleryh (specifically Himars) just not firing at all when given a firing mission?
Are you using precision ammo? And are you doing a fire mission with P or with T?
With the HIMARS it's not even giving me an option to select ammo, I'm using the ballistic missile.
>I'm using the ballistic missile.
Which can't be fired with T(Fire Mission) but instead use P(Precision Strike).
autism tbh
True but that's how it is in this b***h of a game. Devs really need to work on that shit or atleast make it clear, bombing with precision bombs has the same issue.
The UI sucks complete ass, everything feels very trial and error. I don't think it's gonna be the eugen killer, especially with such short range artillery.
Warno looks so much better it's not even funny.
Still BA feels kinda good to play when it actually works but there is A LOT of work to be done.
There's a bug with HIMARS and the MLRS but an easy workaround.
In deckbuilding you select the loadout for your artillery. That's the only loadout it will carry.
The ATACMs and PrSM are both laser-guided precision weapons. There's a button in the right of the UI that expands the fire mission options, you have to manually select the laser-designated ammo type, then order your fire mission.
The regular and smoke ammo fire missions are supposed to automatically disable and grey themselves out when you don't have the corresponding ammo type but they are bugged with those 2 units and default to the ammo you don't have, causing the artillery to not fire. You just need to manually select the precision strike to get around the bug. Once selected, it should work like normal.
>sluggish game
>two enemies DC
>gain ground
>looks like a win
>two people from our team DC
>lose
>takes ages to fill a lobby with players
>perpetually stuck loading when a match happens
>repeat ad nauseam
AAAAAAAAAHHHHH just let me play already.
Okay i have had enough.
Give me the single best plane loadouts for both sides.
Cheap
Planes should always be cheap
single purpose planes, you want saed? just do saed, want AA, just do AA
Tu-160 and Il-76 are all you need.
>gets shot down
The absolute BSOD some people get when their big brain paradrop opener gets destroyed because I sent two fighters past their fighter screen to target it down is frankly, the best gaming experience available.
I can't get the Tu-160 to actually go on its bombing run.
Use cruise missiles.
Is that the strafing run or the bombing run?
Precision strike, if I recall correctly.
Neither. You designate targets with the P hotkey.
You press P each time for the number of missiles you want to launch, then click the same number of times. Each click will be a different missile's target. Once you finish the clicks, it will begin its attack run. If you laser designate a target near where you clicked with a recon unit or another plane, the missile will seek it.
Cruise Missiles have a range of like half the map and hit hard so they let you keep the bomber back out of SAM range while firing.
US:
F/A-18C - Dedicated Air Superiority Fighter. Give it 2 AMRAAMs on the Inner Pylons and nothing else. Should cost you 225. Call this in at the start of every match to intercept enemy paradrops or engage enemy planes, then recall it when it dumps its missiles for a refund.
F-35 - JSOW in one bay, Stormbreakers in the other. It comes with AMRAAMs so you can use it to support your F-18 at the start of the match but otherwise it's your precision bomber. JSOW can oneshot most tanks and Stormbreaks are good vs infantry and buildings but can still damage tanks if it drops right on top of them.
AV-8B Night Attack Harrier - Low-altitude bomber. You can either deck it out with firebombs to frick over garrisoned infantry, Rockeye Cluster Bombs to bomb vehicles, or some combination of Rockeyes, Firebombs and Snakeyes. More bombs means a longer bombing run area, but not a more concentrated one.
Firebomber costs 155, Cluster/Mixed Bomber costs vary by configuration between 180 (2xfire in inner pylons, 4xcluster in middle), 205 (6x cluster in inner pylons, 2x fire in middle) and so on. More clusters makes it easier to land a bomb run but doesn't make the run more lethal to whatever you catch. You can play around with the exact configuration to use up leftover points.
The Night Harrier MUST use high drag ordinance because it has to fly at low altitude or it immediately dies to SAMs. Its effectiveness varies by map and terrain, since they will help shield it from AA.
F/A-18D - Dedicated AGM platform. Unlike the Harrier, the 18D can perform high altitude strikes, but since the 35 is already your precision bomber, we use the 18D for the AGMs. These are high-powered, guided anti-tank missiles that can oneshot tanks. Issue attacks with the Strafe command and they will automatically seek targets in range during the attack run. Much more effective at striking moving targets than the F-35 but more vulnerable to AA.
Use Prowler for SEAD.
AMRAAMS cant target helos tho
If you have JSOW and stormbreak how do you select which one to fire?
Click one weapon to disable it once you call it in
By default strikes will start at the top of the unit's weapon listing and work downwards, but if you want to specifically use one or another, you can click the icon at the bottom of the screen to disable a weapon.
Protip: Storm Shadows have stupidly good tracking for being a bomb. If you laser designate a helicopter (use N while the F-35 is selected and click on the target), they will track and kill it (while also ignoring flares). It looks funny.
The F-18C comes with two free sidewinders for dogfighting/heli killing. This is what makes it a good budget option.
You don't want to overspend on a pure fighter because you're probably not going to use it much. It's mainly there to block opening cheese strategies like mass paradrops.
If you specifically need to deal with heli rushes you can take a set of sidewinders on the outer pylons but it will make the plane more expensive, or even just set up a dedicated AA heli with sidewinders and use those.
Russia:
Su-30SM - ASF. Give it R-77-1s on the Inner Pylons and R-73s on the outer ones. Should cost 225. It's outranged by the F-18s AMRAAMs but dogfights better.
Su-47 - Bring R-37s in one bay and the second can be either AGMs or ARMs. You can call it in alongside (or in place of) the Su-30 for the opening dogfight to snipe transports and help contest the air. Otherwise you use it either as your SEAD platform or as your tank-hunter. It can't leave any bay empty but only needs 1 bay for ground strikes, hence why we make it a hybrid. Costs 370.
Tu-160 - The only loadout it can use without suiciding are cruise missiles. Keep it at the back of your line and launch missiles in small volleys--it flies forward while firing them and risks diving into SAM range without a reason. Volley, turn back, volley, turn back. Repeat until empty. Costs 650.
Su-25T - Same concept as the Harrier. Its 16x ATGMs are its main armament and are free, so just leave every slot empty/cheap. Make it fly low and utilize strafing runs to make it fire. ATGMs require a spotter to see the target, but it fires off a lot at once and can easily kill multiple tanks in a pass. Should cost 165. It will rarely survive its sortie.
Su-35S - Alternate ASF. Costs more than the 30. Give it fuel in the fuselage and R-37s + R-27ETs in the Inner pylons. Should cost 260. 1 of these + two 57s from earlier will be your exact starting point count to all-in the opening air battle. Note that this setup for the 35 has no anti-helicopter missiles but the 57s do. Pair it with a cargo plane so you can paradrop your army into position after refunding your planes and you'll use up exactly your available Air points.
How do you justify using the T-15? All the other IFV's serve perfectly well.
the only thing it can do is soak up fire, as the rest of the vatnik IFVs kinda explode on contact
other than that it's just a vatnik fantasy tank that makes russians go WAOW
lobbies are broken currently, I have been trying to get into a match for the last 10 minutes to no avail
Create your own lobby
>Make a regular lobby with a normal game
nobody joins
>Make a lobby called Ganker /misc/
full in 10 seconds
why
sorry for being fun police but that's probably because lobby starts with a number so it shows at the top of browser
and the servers are shitting themselves, so people join the first one that lets them in
tred stale, need new
So as long as I keep my radar turned off, I'm safe from SEAD?
That is correct, there's no radiation output for SEAD missiles to target