Faulty logic. That is someone refusing to play the game. To argue that this means skill is not a factor in RPGs is nonsensical. Some people can effortlessly play certain RPGs without grinding or making number go up and some need to hit max level to beat it. That means skill is involved.
5 months ago
Anonymous
anon it sounds like all you want to do in this thread is b***h
anon it sounds like all you want to do in this thread is b***h
I just want a clear definition with a minimal amount of contradictions.
ez OP.
If your vidya has a narrative that may be meaningfully changed due to a player's agency, and there is a character stats system which rules over the game mechanics and is alterable by the player (whether that is choosing between pre-defined classes, or a simple leveling system, or a traditional 'create your character' sheet), your vidya is a roleplaying game.
yes, unless you're a moron and don't understand words.
I know you're a loveless virgin homosexual and that is why this thread is made. But my explanation is easy and defines an RPG.
I don't see anything in there that defines an RPG. Just rambling from a neanderthal, angry at being confronted with his nonsensical mental machinations.
ez OP.
If your vidya has a narrative that may be meaningfully changed due to a player's agency, and there is a character stats system which rules over the game mechanics and is alterable by the player (whether that is choosing between pre-defined classes, or a simple leveling system, or a traditional 'create your character' sheet), your vidya is a roleplaying game.
why do you think everybody refers to them specifically as JRPGs?
I don't see anything in there that defines an RPG. Just rambling from a neanderthal, angry at being confronted with his nonsensical mental machinations.
It's a pretty clear cut definition. You need player agency and you need a stats system. If you don't understand what that means you're moronic and have never played a vidya before.
>You need player agency and you need a stats system
All games have player agency and as they are digital all actions are given value by "stats" even if those numbers are not visible to the player. This is a dumb post by a dumb person. You should never post again either.
>All games have player agency
Holy shit you're a moron. My definition clearly said 'narrative that may be meaningfully changed'. To compress my definition, I simply said player agency. Only an absolute frickwit like you would not understand this. >all actions are given value by "stats"
Holy shit you're a fricking idiot lmao
>narrative that may be meaningfully changed'
Yes, this isn't unique to rpgs and having this doesn't make the game an rpg. Many of Gygax's modules don't have this, are you saying they aren't RPGs? If so, when did rpgs truly start?
I requested that you never post again as nothing you ever post could be of any value, but it seems you have disregarded my reasonable request, so I will just be calling you a dumb Black person if you make further posts, as they surely won't have any content worth seriously responding to.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>what's an RPG >having this doesn't make the game an rpg
you really are a dumb Black person, on top of being a contrarian homosexual
5 months ago
Anonymous
>dumb Black person can't read >dumb Black person thinks mechanics he likes to see in rpgs is what defines them as rpgs >dumb Black person should be hung from a tree instead of ruining communities
Basically this
The stat system is basically just a way to help you create characters, and I wonder if you could do without it while keeping the former and still be a videogame
>narrative that may be meaningfully changed due to a player's agency
So JRPGs are not RPGs?
Yes.
Well, most of the so called ones. SMT definitely is, even if the implementation can be poor
Rpg is a game where rpg elements (such as experience points/levels, skills that can be progressed, multiple classes each filling a certain role, quests as opposed to missions etc but not exhaustive) overweight game play elements typical for other genres
An RPG is a game where you create and roleplay as a character, with freedom to personalize your character's build and mechanics that encourage making decisions as your character.
If your player character has an entirely pre-decided identity and personally then it's not an RPG, it's an adventure game
>If your player character has an entirely pre-decided identity and personally then it's not an RPG, it's an adventure game
I really believe this deep down, I honestly don't fricking get the point of playing an RPG where you character is pre-determined and you have little influence on the world or story. It's why I fricking despise shit like "you play the role as [main character]" that people shitpost, hopefully as jokes.
An RPG is a modified wargame where players cooperate versus a hostile environment rather than face off against each other in order to achieve a common goal, that goal generally being treasure hunting in a crypt or dungeon. This is the ONLY correct definition. Hope that clears things up. Please don't ever post again.
>So it can't be a single character game?
ideally no, you're already detracting from the basic formula of the genre by doing this >That discounts the quintessential Dragon Quest 1?
i dont really care about DQ but that makes zero sense to me
A game where you get to at least partially partake as an actor for the role of the main character in a way that lets you put your own spin on who they are. RPG-ness is not binary and more of a spectrum. Even non-RPGs will have some room for RPG elements (eg Call of Duty campaign could let you be a soldier who always shoots enemies in the crotch), but usually an RPG is a game that has enough cumilative RPG elements to be considered an RPG.
Also stats have absolutely nothing to do with RPGs and Todd Howard is a disaster for the genre that took way too long to be unmasked.
>A game where you get to at least partially partake as an actor for the role of the main character
It is not necessary to be the leader to play an rpg. >that lets you put your own spin on who they are
This is not necessary in RPGs at all and it's certainly not unique to RPGs. Please refrain from posting ever again. You are bad and should feel bad.
>Not necessary to be the leader
99% of RPGs have this. The only exception is DOS1 with its schizo-core dialogue between your 2 MCs. >Not necessary to put your own spin
It literally is and its the sole identifier of what an RPG is. ROLE PLAYING. You are the actor, the character(s) is your role. Even the shittiest non-RPG games morons like to shill here like Mount and Blade still do this. Linear-ass JRPGs do it. Every single CRPG does that and borderline non-RPGs like Darksouls do it extensively via your gameplay kits.
Mongoloid. PLAYING A ROLE is to RPGs is what having a first person camera and shooting things is to FPSs. The shotgun example is apt for the discusion, because it filters the "muh stats" crowd of what makes an RPG.
Role is roleplaying means to fill a tactical role in a party of adventurers, like playing the role of a thief. Picking A or B in dialogue is not roleplaying. It's almost hilarious how wrong you are.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Your own replies mark out how bad you are at reading. I literally said as much with my example of "RPing a soldier who shoots peoples dicks off". Point I am making that a game is an RPG when you create a robust enough array of possible ways to roleplay. A boomershooter will not be an RPG because choosing to shoot someone in the balls is basically the only acting choice you have. But take something like Darksouls and your acting capability rises exponentially in comparison, even without us adding a single line of real dialogue.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>A boomershooter will not be an RPG because choosing to shoot someone in the balls is basically the only acting choice you have
In Doom there are lots of ways to clear any encounter, just like there are lots of ways to clear any encounter in an RPG. All games have this. You're just describing gameplay.
5 months ago
Anonymous
This is a terrible example because Doom is actually modeled after pen and paper systems. Like the enemy types and weapon attributes, stagger and damage, how these are applied are pretty closely related to pen and paper.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Yeah, once you start thinking about why DoomRL is an rpg and Doom isn't the answer becomes a lot clearer.
>It literally is and its the sole identifier of what an RPG is
No, it's just a universal factor of gameplay, in general. Of course we make decisions in all genres, that's the game part. Do you eat lead paint chips or something? Genuinely curious.
An RPG is a modified wargame where players cooperate versus a hostile environment rather than face off against each other in order to achieve a common goal, that goal generally being treasure hunting in a crypt or dungeon. This is the ONLY correct definition. Hope that clears things up. Please don't ever post again.
I like FPS with shotguns, therefore games with shotguns are FPS. That is the logic in most of these posts. You start with the first and most simple example of what MUST logically be categorized as an rpg, and describe what differentiates it from other categories in a meaningful way.
It's a role playing game. So in other words you immerse yourself in the world, you play a character (otherwise known as a role) and make decisions according to how that character would act and not how you personally would act, the systems and mechanics are set up to allow for this immersive experience and involve a degree of interactivity.
The key is player agency in shaping the world and the world reacting to the player.
I find it interesting that quite a lot of you got the progression question backwards.
Skills, levels, branching story, itemisation and classes aren't rpg requirements... they are however essential to make the player feel the weight of his / her choices and trough that simulate reactivity in the world.
No matter how many of these you have cobbled together if your choices... the role you chose to play aren't an integral part of your session / campaign.
The perfect example for this could be the Bethesda style of sandbox.
This rules out quite a lot of games... and that's fine.
I don't think the people who enjoy soulslike games will stop playing them just because they are considered action-adventure games.
>The key is player agency in shaping the world and the world reacting to the player.
It's literally not and nothing to do with an RPG. You're falsely attributing these characteristics to RPGs for no justifiable reason.
if the role playing game isn't about role playing then it's like calling a game where shooting isn't the primary focus a first person shooter. By artificial labels and how it's marketed, sure you can call it an rpg, but it fundamentally isn't at that point, or at the least a poorly made one.
You're totally lost on what roleplaying is. Player agency is applicable to all genres, there is no genre that would not be improved by more player agency.
If you are not shaping the world and the world does not acknowledge you then you are creating headcanon and not playing a role.
Based on your convo it seems to me that you cannot make a difference between roleplay and immersion.
The same mistake here:
Immersion is not a trait unique to rpgs. Do you not realize how stupid you sound? You did not think this through at all.
Immersion is you slipping into the shoes of the character. (You being the badass Doomguy).
Roleplay is the character (and trough it the world) accommodating your fantasy that you want to identify with.
There are role playing games where immersion is left in the dust, and there are non-rpg titles where immersion is a key component.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>Roleplay is the character (and trough it the world) accommodating your fantasy that you want to identify with.
Roleplaying is not about fantasy. You are generally supposed to assume roles you are not comfortable or familiar with in a roleplaying game. The principle is that you do not get to choose your challenges, that is at the discretion of the DM, merely how you meet them, just as in life. You're just flat out wrong, this whole post reeks of this:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Roleplaying
5 months ago
Anonymous
>https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Roleplaying
Holy hell, now this is cancer.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>For drinks, you can mix ingredients and call the potion "Juice".
lmao
5 months ago
Anonymous
Let me get this straight.
You think that pen&paper roleplaying is fulfilling the expectations of your DM by playing the roles he / she designates?
I cannot even start to imagine how bad campaigns you played if this is true.
And you somehow bring in a whole page of cringe that details a weird attempt to make up for the missing roleplay elements of a Bethesda game... right after I specifically named them as lacking it.
You're totally lost on what roleplaying is. Player agency is applicable to all genres, there is no genre that would not be improved by more player agency.
Please learn the definitions of words before using them.
Concensus does not matter. This is the definition.
An RPG is a modified wargame where players cooperate versus a hostile environment rather than face off against each other in order to achieve a common goal, that goal generally being treasure hunting in a crypt or dungeon. This is the ONLY correct definition. Hope that clears things up. Please don't ever post again.
Simply put is a role playing game. I would say the fundamental trait of these kind of games is that the experience should be character driven instead of player driven.
>We need to make some sort of agreed upon chart or set of rules and uphold it as dogma for what constitutes as an RPG
Won't that be a problem when what people consider an RPG is found out to not be an RPG? And some random western open world game or something packed with RPG elements scoops it up.
It won't just be a fuzzy problem like we have with some ARPGs and VN style games.
Kill monster=number go up
Number go up=monster dies faster
you tell characters what to do instead of controlling characters directly
So are the tales of games are not RPGs?
So the DMC games are RPGs?
tales games are arpgs
So the defining factor is telling characters what to do except with arpgs, which nullifies that distinction?
What about games where people do low-level/no-level runs and still win? Does that not make those games determined by skill?
if you play Mario and don't touch the control stick it doesn't qualify Mario as an idle game
Faulty logic. That is someone refusing to play the game. To argue that this means skill is not a factor in RPGs is nonsensical. Some people can effortlessly play certain RPGs without grinding or making number go up and some need to hit max level to beat it. That means skill is involved.
anon it sounds like all you want to do in this thread is b***h
Yes.
encounters are decided not by skill but by numbers
>i am so le deep for asking redundant questions
Just off yourself your troony.
? I'm sorry, I don't own a transgender individual
I just want a clear definition with a minimal amount of contradictions.
That's easy?
yes, unless you're a moron and don't understand words.
I know you're a loveless virgin homosexual and that is why this thread is made. But my explanation is easy and defines an RPG.
I don't see anything in there that defines an RPG. Just rambling from a neanderthal, angry at being confronted with his nonsensical mental machinations.
ez OP.
If your vidya has a narrative that may be meaningfully changed due to a player's agency, and there is a character stats system which rules over the game mechanics and is alterable by the player (whether that is choosing between pre-defined classes, or a simple leveling system, or a traditional 'create your character' sheet), your vidya is a roleplaying game.
>narrative that may be meaningfully changed due to a player's agency
So JRPGs are not RPGs?
Obviously
why do you think everybody refers to them specifically as JRPGs?
It's a pretty clear cut definition. You need player agency and you need a stats system. If you don't understand what that means you're moronic and have never played a vidya before.
>You need player agency and you need a stats system
All games have player agency and as they are digital all actions are given value by "stats" even if those numbers are not visible to the player. This is a dumb post by a dumb person. You should never post again either.
>All games have player agency
Holy shit you're a moron. My definition clearly said 'narrative that may be meaningfully changed'. To compress my definition, I simply said player agency. Only an absolute frickwit like you would not understand this.
>all actions are given value by "stats"
Holy shit you're a fricking idiot lmao
>narrative that may be meaningfully changed'
Yes, this isn't unique to rpgs and having this doesn't make the game an rpg. Many of Gygax's modules don't have this, are you saying they aren't RPGs? If so, when did rpgs truly start?
I requested that you never post again as nothing you ever post could be of any value, but it seems you have disregarded my reasonable request, so I will just be calling you a dumb Black person if you make further posts, as they surely won't have any content worth seriously responding to.
>what's an RPG
>having this doesn't make the game an rpg
you really are a dumb Black person, on top of being a contrarian homosexual
>dumb Black person can't read
>dumb Black person thinks mechanics he likes to see in rpgs is what defines them as rpgs
>dumb Black person should be hung from a tree instead of ruining communities
Basically this
The stat system is basically just a way to help you create characters, and I wonder if you could do without it while keeping the former and still be a videogame
Yes.
Well, most of the so called ones. SMT definitely is, even if the implementation can be poor
"I know it when I see it"
Arguably the most valid response so far and that is saying something.
Rpg is a game where rpg elements (such as experience points/levels, skills that can be progressed, multiple classes each filling a certain role, quests as opposed to missions etc but not exhaustive) overweight game play elements typical for other genres
An RPG is a game where you create and roleplay as a character, with freedom to personalize your character's build and mechanics that encourage making decisions as your character.
If your player character has an entirely pre-decided identity and personally then it's not an RPG, it's an adventure game
>If your player character has an entirely pre-decided identity and personally then it's not an RPG, it's an adventure game
I really believe this deep down, I honestly don't fricking get the point of playing an RPG where you character is pre-determined and you have little influence on the world or story. It's why I fricking despise shit like "you play the role as [main character]" that people shitpost, hopefully as jokes.
You will never know, pleb.
An RPG is a modified wargame where players cooperate versus a hostile environment rather than face off against each other in order to achieve a common goal, that goal generally being treasure hunting in a crypt or dungeon. This is the ONLY correct definition. Hope that clears things up. Please don't ever post again.
So it can't be a single character game? That discounts the quintessential Dragon Quest 1? If so, then does that not make Tomb Raider an RPG?
>So it can't be a single character game?
ideally no, you're already detracting from the basic formula of the genre by doing this
>That discounts the quintessential Dragon Quest 1?
i dont really care about DQ but that makes zero sense to me
DQ is THE RPG. If your definition excludes it, it is idiotic by design. Sorry anon, you lose.
>DQ is THE RPG
No, its a JRPG, which are not RPGs. At all.
The set “RPG” contains the subset “JRPG”. It’s fine if you think they’re bad games and dislike them but the “not an RPG” autism is extremely tedious.
The J is added to signify thats its not a real RPG, otherwise it would not be there.
No, it doesn't. It is a modifier to give more information. "Japanese car" does not signify that the object is not a car anymore, you fricking moron.
My Subaru forester is not a JSUV, it's just an SUV. If it was a huge piece of shit it would be called a JSUV.
You might be the dumbest motherfricker on this site. That's saying something
>Me when I only play DnD and its derivatives
A game where you get to at least partially partake as an actor for the role of the main character in a way that lets you put your own spin on who they are. RPG-ness is not binary and more of a spectrum. Even non-RPGs will have some room for RPG elements (eg Call of Duty campaign could let you be a soldier who always shoots enemies in the crotch), but usually an RPG is a game that has enough cumilative RPG elements to be considered an RPG.
Also stats have absolutely nothing to do with RPGs and Todd Howard is a disaster for the genre that took way too long to be unmasked.
>A game where you get to at least partially partake as an actor for the role of the main character
It is not necessary to be the leader to play an rpg.
>that lets you put your own spin on who they are
This is not necessary in RPGs at all and it's certainly not unique to RPGs. Please refrain from posting ever again. You are bad and should feel bad.
>Not necessary to be the leader
99% of RPGs have this. The only exception is DOS1 with its schizo-core dialogue between your 2 MCs.
>Not necessary to put your own spin
It literally is and its the sole identifier of what an RPG is. ROLE PLAYING. You are the actor, the character(s) is your role. Even the shittiest non-RPG games morons like to shill here like Mount and Blade still do this. Linear-ass JRPGs do it. Every single CRPG does that and borderline non-RPGs like Darksouls do it extensively via your gameplay kits.
>It literally is and its the sole identifier of what an RPG is.
>I like FPS with shotguns, therefore games with shotguns are FPS.
Mongoloid. PLAYING A ROLE is to RPGs is what having a first person camera and shooting things is to FPSs. The shotgun example is apt for the discusion, because it filters the "muh stats" crowd of what makes an RPG.
Role is roleplaying means to fill a tactical role in a party of adventurers, like playing the role of a thief. Picking A or B in dialogue is not roleplaying. It's almost hilarious how wrong you are.
Your own replies mark out how bad you are at reading. I literally said as much with my example of "RPing a soldier who shoots peoples dicks off". Point I am making that a game is an RPG when you create a robust enough array of possible ways to roleplay. A boomershooter will not be an RPG because choosing to shoot someone in the balls is basically the only acting choice you have. But take something like Darksouls and your acting capability rises exponentially in comparison, even without us adding a single line of real dialogue.
>A boomershooter will not be an RPG because choosing to shoot someone in the balls is basically the only acting choice you have
In Doom there are lots of ways to clear any encounter, just like there are lots of ways to clear any encounter in an RPG. All games have this. You're just describing gameplay.
This is a terrible example because Doom is actually modeled after pen and paper systems. Like the enemy types and weapon attributes, stagger and damage, how these are applied are pretty closely related to pen and paper.
Yeah, once you start thinking about why DoomRL is an rpg and Doom isn't the answer becomes a lot clearer.
>It literally is and its the sole identifier of what an RPG is
No, it's just a universal factor of gameplay, in general. Of course we make decisions in all genres, that's the game part. Do you eat lead paint chips or something? Genuinely curious.
I fear this knowledge was lost with the passing of time
It's right here
There is no definition of an RPG that includes all the games you consider to be one and also excludes all the games you don't.
I like FPS with shotguns, therefore games with shotguns are FPS. That is the logic in most of these posts. You start with the first and most simple example of what MUST logically be categorized as an rpg, and describe what differentiates it from other categories in a meaningful way.
Bingo. This is why we cannot have a real answer to this dilemma.
It's a role playing game. So in other words you immerse yourself in the world, you play a character (otherwise known as a role) and make decisions according to how that character would act and not how you personally would act, the systems and mechanics are set up to allow for this immersive experience and involve a degree of interactivity.
Exactly this.
The key is player agency in shaping the world and the world reacting to the player.
I find it interesting that quite a lot of you got the progression question backwards.
Skills, levels, branching story, itemisation and classes aren't rpg requirements... they are however essential to make the player feel the weight of his / her choices and trough that simulate reactivity in the world.
No matter how many of these you have cobbled together if your choices... the role you chose to play aren't an integral part of your session / campaign.
The perfect example for this could be the Bethesda style of sandbox.
This rules out quite a lot of games... and that's fine.
I don't think the people who enjoy soulslike games will stop playing them just because they are considered action-adventure games.
>The key is player agency in shaping the world and the world reacting to the player.
It's literally not and nothing to do with an RPG. You're falsely attributing these characteristics to RPGs for no justifiable reason.
if the role playing game isn't about role playing then it's like calling a game where shooting isn't the primary focus a first person shooter. By artificial labels and how it's marketed, sure you can call it an rpg, but it fundamentally isn't at that point, or at the least a poorly made one.
You're totally lost on what roleplaying is. Player agency is applicable to all genres, there is no genre that would not be improved by more player agency.
If you are not shaping the world and the world does not acknowledge you then you are creating headcanon and not playing a role.
Based on your convo it seems to me that you cannot make a difference between roleplay and immersion.
The same mistake here:
Immersion is you slipping into the shoes of the character. (You being the badass Doomguy).
Roleplay is the character (and trough it the world) accommodating your fantasy that you want to identify with.
There are role playing games where immersion is left in the dust, and there are non-rpg titles where immersion is a key component.
>Roleplay is the character (and trough it the world) accommodating your fantasy that you want to identify with.
Roleplaying is not about fantasy. You are generally supposed to assume roles you are not comfortable or familiar with in a roleplaying game. The principle is that you do not get to choose your challenges, that is at the discretion of the DM, merely how you meet them, just as in life. You're just flat out wrong, this whole post reeks of this:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Roleplaying
>https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Roleplaying
Holy hell, now this is cancer.
>For drinks, you can mix ingredients and call the potion "Juice".
lmao
Let me get this straight.
You think that pen&paper roleplaying is fulfilling the expectations of your DM by playing the roles he / she designates?
I cannot even start to imagine how bad campaigns you played if this is true.
And you somehow bring in a whole page of cringe that details a weird attempt to make up for the missing roleplay elements of a Bethesda game... right after I specifically named them as lacking it.
Immersion is not a trait unique to rpgs. Do you not realize how stupid you sound? You did not think this through at all.
Please learn the definitions of words before using them.
whatever identifies as one
Sounds like we are nowhere near a consensus on what constitutes a RPG.
Concensus does not matter. This is the definition.
An RPG is a narrative-oriented action game that doesn't test the player's skill
Thanks todd, i'll buy 6 more copies of starfield.
a game where there's like numbers and stuff
Last time I saw this thread in 2022. For 7 days you morons were arguing that game you like is RPG and you don't like is not
/thread
either turn based or real time combat where damage gets decided by:
99% of games are determined by numbers.
But how many give them decide damage and stuff on numbers?
Simply put is a role playing game. I would say the fundamental trait of these kind of games is that the experience should be character driven instead of player driven.
>What exactly is an RPG?
you tell me fricko
A role-playing game.
Don't ever post again pls
We need to make some sort of agreed upon chart or set of rules and uphold it as dogma for what constitutes as an RPG
Although, I do agree RPGs are now more of a spectrum, so we might need to create labels like RPG-like/lite or Traditional RPG
>We need to make some sort of agreed upon chart or set of rules and uphold it as dogma for what constitutes as an RPG
Won't that be a problem when what people consider an RPG is found out to not be an RPG? And some random western open world game or something packed with RPG elements scoops it up.
It won't just be a fuzzy problem like we have with some ARPGs and VN style games.